Am I Going to Hell? What the New Testament Says About Death and the Afterlife
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ม.ค. 2023
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If there is one thing most people are certain of about the Bible, it is that it describes how after people die they will be rewarded with heaven or tormented in hell. But does it? As it turns out ... well, you'll be surprised by what the Bible actually says. And once your surprise fades, you'll probably want to know: where do the Christian ideas of the afterlife come from?
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My mental health is so much better since I stopped believing in Hell. 😊
You mean its much better after getting out of Hell, Hell is just a present reality. And the reality is religion puts you in a state of bondage, that's Hell. What a pity the authors or tellers of the OT have been misrepresented for all these years and people have turned something quite useful(hebrew wisdom) into a sword to enslave people or cut them down.
Being a child and thinking you're going to hell if you don't believe in Jesus is traumatic. I don't know how many times I was "born again" out of a obsessive compulsive fear that I might not really be saved.
The three heavens are winter, spring, and summer. Heaven is within.
@@harveywabbit9541 I like that! But what about Fall? That is my season is heaven for me.
@@MicahBuzanMUSIC
Heaven is all around, but man fails to see.
oof I can relate to the multiple born again experiences lol
@@MicahBuzanMUSIC yessssssss
I grew up in a fundamentalist family. One of the hardest things to let go in my deconversion was a fear that I would spend eternity screaming in Hell because I stole a package of orange TicTacs when I was five years old. Thank you Dr. Ehrman for helping me finally break free of Christianity's chains.
I recommend chtistopher hitchens and richard dawkins. it takes about 5 years and then you are free of religion
@@bryancharlebois It took me about half a year but depends on how much time you spend on research. I spent a lot of time, so it didn't take too long. I deconverted from Islam, then came across Dr Ehrman's scholarship which made me leave theism (realizing Christianity and Judaism are just as wrong and also the problem of theodicy) and I then turned from deist/agnostic into an atheist after studying all the God arguments and their refutations through a plethora of debates.
Welcome to Islam
@@Nexus-jg7ev i went through an awakening. I didn't give up on God, Jesus etc but i did on Christianity.
@@Nexus-jg7ev interesting reply. all these gods (egyptians, greeks, romans, jewish etc never existed and neither does christianity
"Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool." -- Voltaire
change that to scoundrel evangelist minister and you will have it right. Voltair never imagined how much reach television would give
Voltaire nailed it. I don't understand how people can be so delusional. And what's up with this chicks blue hair? Nice look.
So, are we not saved by grace thru faith in Christ? I think this is the Crux of the Gospel. Our belief saves us, not our good works. Have you read the Pauline Epistles?
Bro, you post this same comment EVERYWHERE. Do you have anything new to say?
@@HangrySaturn
How many times I have to post the same facts before you actually start to use your brain to think on your own and realize that your made-up religion has got you duped?
What I notice about Matthew 25 is that no one is condemned for their actions, but for their inaction.
2 Thessalonians 1:8
The great thing about this podcast is that it's timeless. As someone who recently found Bart, I now have plenty of hours or relevant pods to listen too. Quite a treat.
When I was a child indoctrinated in Catholicism, I remember being told that heaven was a place where everyone sings praise to god and worships him for all eternity. I thought my gosh that sounds terrible, church FOREVER?! But instantly I shut that down, I was AFRAID TO THINK IT, because hell was surely worse. I knew I was finally free when (less than a year ago) I was able to say out loud “this is all stupid and I was taught to be afraid to think.” Still counting the ways THAT has screwed up my life.
I found Dr. Ehrman’s lectures a few months ago and he has brought so much clarity. The religious part of my education (Catholic school through 12th grade) was never for my own good. And it certainly left a lot of Christian history out of the classroom. It’s all very fascinating and has totally accelerated the deconstruction I’ve been working on for years.
In the past year, I finally reached a point where I saw the light and took a breath, “born again” …but this time on MY terms.
Erin: Yes, always think for yourself with critical thinking skills which lead us to know the facts and truth of this world. Question everything!
I completely understand your religious trauma, having attended a Christian school from K2-12 grade, lived with a religious fundamentalist family and attended church until my late teens.
It warps the mind and critical thinking and subconsciously programs you to live in fear.
If you also had an abusive home, it makes life more difficult.
Joining Bart’s blog page (highly recommend) and getting books like Christopher Hitchens ‘God is not great’ and Richard Dawkins ‘The God delusion’ will also help.
There are also many TH-cam videos on debates with Christopher Hitchens that really did it for me.
This debate was a game changer- it has Hitchens and Stephen Fry would destroyed every facet of the catholic regime. (You would appreciate the video - don’t mind the title, I think it was meant to draw people to it)
m.th-cam.com/video/JZRcYaAYWg4/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUjY2F0aG9saWMgY2h1cmNoIGlzIGEgZm9yY2UgZm9yIGdvb2Q%3D
All the best to you
This was always a weird theology for me, because I grew up hearing something similar. I couldn't understand how God had made a beautiful world to travel in, good friendships and family, the ability to play sports and instruments, and to study and learn, and then one day, I'd have to just sing forever......That theology is not thought out at all!
"Eternal rest grant unto them,oh Lord and may perpetual light shine upon them."..That sounds like a terrible way to spend eternity. You're trying to get your rest and a perpetual light is glaring on you.
Well said
I’m Jewish and I was never threatened with going to Hell. When a born again Christian asked me if I knew if I was going to Heaven or Hell, I didn’t know if Jews believed in Hell because no one had ever mentioned Hell ever.
I asked a Black Baptist minister if a Jew who was murdered in Auschwitz was now in Heaven or Hell. He didn’t want to answer me and he tried to weasel his way out of it, but he eventually admitted the answer was they were in Hell.
I would like to apologize for my mentally insane Christian brethren. They don't know what they are doing. ;-)
Yes exactly. That one example demonstrates clearly what a stupid doctrine it is.
Dr. Ehrman's background resonates with me as a deconstructing theist. He has helped me to exorcise the fears of my past conditioning. I now want to know rather than blind believing.
Those who want to know rather than believe, should abandon Allah, Poseidon, Thor, God, The Flying Spaghetti Monster, Jesus, Ganesha the elephant god and so on, and instead care about what can be observed, measured and predicted, i.e. science.
I adore the sanity of this channel where i can learn about the theological elements that have so informed our culture...without someone trying to pull me into "a relationship with the Lord".
And also not the other annoying extreme where I'm being reminded at every turn about how these stories don't work logically and religion is bad. I just want to focus on the scholarship.
Amen
@@HessianHunter IS NOT RELIGION LIKE THE OLD BLUES TUNE "IS YOU IS OR IS YOU AIN'T MY BABY"? STEVE I OWN YOU IF I CANNOT HAVE YOU NOBODY CAN'T HAVE YOU I MEAN NO BODY
According to Established Titles, you too can become a Lord.
And that "relationship with the Lord" is less about personal spiritual development and more being stuck in the world's most bitter bookclub and bullied into attending all their sessions.
Life is hell,
Death is heaven-no more problems, stress, pain etc.!
Two points:
1) Indoctrinating children into the idea of hell should be considered child abuse
2) heaven is of no consequence, hell is the only thing that matters
As a former Christian and Christian minister, I can recall the day I decided I would not teach my children about heaven and hell. We were in church one Sunday--me, my wife, our son and newborn daughter. As we sat enjoying the service, I watched my son playing among the pews. In that moment, I remembered how terrified I was as a child about dying and going to hell. I remembered lying in my bed, my mind paralyzed w fear that I might die in my sins and go to hell. That was the moment I decided I would not pass on that same torment to my own children.
Bart is right, the descriptions of hell are intricately detailed while the descriptions of heaven are super brief. One day I realized that it one were to remove the concept of hell from Christianity, the number of Christians would drop to near zero almost overnight. Everyone is afraid of hell, but almost no one, even the writers of scripture, really give a rat's ass about heaven. As far as heaven goes, people would just as well stay right here on earth if it were possible as long as they dont go to hell.
I mean, can we just acknowledge that the "Bible" is mythology? Nothing more, nothing less. Can we just stop lying to people. It is not true and could be er be true. Can we just admit that so people can get on w living their lives?
I find it strange that you think if one “were to remove the concept of hell from Christianity, the number of Christians would drop to near zero”, because I would consider eternal torment to be the hardest thing to accept about Christianity. The idea of eternal torment is hard to reconcile with a loving God. Most people find the idea of hell for non-believers to be seriously off-putting.
@@DVN5381 Both ideas are ridiculous. Can we agree on that?
@@danieldhardman5388 I don’t find an afterlife with judgment to be that ridiculous of an idea. I’ve listened to a fair amount of near death experiences, and it’s hard to draw any concrete conclusions about consciousness and death. It’s just not the type of thing that science can answer.
@@DVN5381 I don't get the point you're trying to make. From what I gather, your statements and mine seem to line up. You have a problem w the words I choose to use, OK. But that's not something I care to debate.
@Darwin Nyberg They are interesting, but subjective experiences that can't really be verified.
"By contrast, the dominant religious imagery of India is Hindu, and predictably NDEs from India typically involve encounters with recognizably Hindu religious figures. Satwant Pasricha and Ian Stevenson provide us with the following case from one of the largest surveys of non-Western NDEs conducted so far:
Four black messengers came and held me…. [T]he clerks had a heap of books in front of them…. *Yamraj was there sitting on a high chair with a white beard and wearing yellow clothes.* He asked me, “What do you want?” I told him that I wanted to stay there. He asked me to extend my hand. I don’t remember whether he gave me something or not. Then I was pushed down [and revived] (Pasricha and Stevenson 167).
*Here an NDEr is seated near Yamaraj, the Hindu god of death, whose appearance also corresponds to the god’s portrayal in Hindu tradition.* While Western NDErs tend to encounter dead friends and relatives more often than religious figures, Hindu religious figures are prominent in NDEs from India. Additionally, we see that NDErs from different cultures also give different reasons for why they are sent back. Western NDErs are often ‘sent back’ in order to take care of immediate family or for some assumed purpose unknown to them; NDErs from India report meeting clerks in an impersonal afterlife bureaucracy who process the dead and send them back because they have been sent the wrong person due to paperwork mistakes (Pasricha and Stevenson 168-169).
*While OBEs are rather common early on in Western NDEs, being visited by a Yamatoot is “the most common initial phase” of Thai NDEs (170).* Where OBEs do occur, “OBEs in Thai NDEs tend immediately to precede meetings with Yamatoots” (171). Tunnels are “largely absent in Thai NDEs” (with one exception unlike Western tunnel experiences), and feelings of peace or euphoria and experiences of light have not been reported at all (172). Thai NDErs are sometimes judged, but their deeds are recounted by reviewing written records of their lives or the testimony of others. The following case is typical:
*I … found myself in the judgment hall of Yama’s palace.* I knew that they were ready to judge me for my sins. A giant rooster appeared who told Yama that I had killed him. He emphasized that I had tried to kill him again and again. The rooster also said that he remembered me exactly. An entire flock of roosters also [appeared] and testified that I had killed them, as well. I remembered my actions, and I had to admit that the roosters had told the truth. Yama said that I had committed many sins, and sentenced me to many rebirths both as a chicken, and many other types of birds as well…. But, quite suddenly, an enormous turtle appeared. It screamed at Yama, saying “Don’t take him; he is a good human, and should be allowed to live.” Yama answered the turtle “What did he do to help you?” [ellipses original] (Murphy, “Thailand” 167)."
From:
*"Hallucinatory Near-Death Experiences » Internet Infidels"*
I've never been religious, but in my youth I read a lot of fantasy fiction and the concepts of a generic "land of the dead" and reincarnation always made more sense than heavens and hells.
And neither of the above makes more sense than neither of the above
“When I was a child I reasoned as a child and thought as a child, but now I’ve put aside childish things.” Done a hell of a lot (pun intended!) of deconstruction over the years. Thanks to Bart I’ve begun to make sense of some of the crazy things I’ve been taught so that I can hopefully make a more intelligent and constructive use of what’s left! 😂
Telling your children they will go to hell if they don't believe in Jesus... is CHILD ABUSE !!!!
I've read Bart's book "Heaven and Hell." Even if you aren't afraid of hell and don't believe in heaven or hell, as I don't, it's still a wonderful, interesting, understandable and necessary read. Who wouldn't want to know about the origination of ideas that have had such an affect on Western civilization and the culture that informs us? His book is thorough and convincing. It is based on translation of the original languages of the Bible. It's never boring and supremely rational and fact-based. It is not an attempt to undermine faith; it means to underscore what lies behind faith. A person should know what they are saying/accepting when they affirm a particular faith.
EFFECT not AFFECT. For pity's sake
@@zapkvr Grammer Nazis are not nice!
I appreciate the good review of Bart's book. Hope I get a chance to read it.
@@zapkvrfor *pete’s sake
I think there should be a hell for people like the Nazis, Hitler Trump and more hateful people, it would not be fair for those 6 million Jews that died under him. There must be accountability.
Bart, as a rabbi, I believe the near death experience is a valid possibility. However, I often tell my congregants that the question whether there is an afterlife is irrelevant. If there is an afterlife, we will find out soon enough. And if there is no afterlife, none of us will ever know the difference. Becoming one with the cosmic order is no small consolation prize.
NDE STUDIES - (Los Angeles Times excerpts)......................
Researchers estimate that around 17 percent of people have an NDE. That means about 80% don't. Scratch beneath those alleged flat EKG lines, and the stories are a veritable twilight zone of inconsistencies. Some near-death voyagers claim to have met God - BUT A FEW SAW ELVIS PRESLEY OR GROUCHO MARX, researchers say. Others get to heaven not through the famous “tunnel”, but ABOARD GHOSTLY TAXICABS, FERRIES THAT CROSS THE RIVER STYX, OR SPANGLED COWS.
Even children - often touted as the best source of unbiased information - sometimes return from “death” claiming they were GREETED IN THE OTHER WORLD BY STILL LIVING TEACHERS, AND NINTENDO CHARACTERS, instead of deceased relatives.
HINDUS WHO BELIEVE IN YAMRAJ, the Hindu god of the dead, EXPERIENCED MEETING HIM. A Hindu girl "died" and WENT TO HEAVEN ON A COW. Would that mean people will be riding cows to heaven? Jews who don’t believe in Jesus or "hell", experienced God as described in the Old Testament; while Messianic Jews experienced God as Jesus.
In one study carried out, the experiences of 16 Asian Indians were compared with those of Americans, and it was found that THE INDIANS HAD ENCOUNTERED YAMRAJ, the Hindu king of the dead, WHILE THE AMERICANS HAD NOT.
Dr. Richard Eby had an NDE and allegedly Jesus told him he had to go back, and that he (Jesus) would return (2nd coming) before Richard Eby died permanently. BUT, DR. RICHARD EBY HAS NOW DIED, AND JESUS HAS NOT RETURNED.
A few hospitals have placed signs in their cardiac units - with nonsensical messages visible only from above - but so far NOBODY HAS RETURNED FROM DEATH CLAIMING TO HAVE FLOATED UP AND SEEN ONE.
You would expect, that if any particular religious account of the afterlife were true, NDEs would be pretty much the same. BUT THESE ACCOUNTS ARE SO VARIED AND ARE ALL BASED ON CULTURAL EXPOSURE. IN INDIA PEOPLE SEE HINDU GODS, IN SAUDI ARABIA IT'S MOHAMMED, ALLAH, AND A BUNCH OF VIRGINS. The kid from the book/movie Heaven Is For Real saw a Jesus with sea green-blue eyes on A RAINBOW COLORED HORSE, God with BLUE EYES, YELLOW HAIR AND HUGE WINGS, and ONE LITTLE GIRL WENT TO HEAVEN AND WAS GREETED BY A PORTLY MAN WITH A WHITE BEARD AND A RED CAP A.K.A. SANTA CLAUSE.
The Mapuche people of South America and residents of Hawaii are more likely to SEE LANDSCAPES AND VOLCANOES, whereas NDEs in Thailand and India rarely involve landmarks, tunnels or light; for Tibetans, light features more heavily, as do illusions of reincarnation. Europeans and North Americans often visualize beautiful gardens; intriguingly, the Kalai of Melanesia are more inclined to SEE AN INDUSTRIALIZED WORLD OF FACTORIES. An NDEr’s subjective experiences can be attributed to many factors: THE NDEr's PSYCHOLOGY, PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, BACKGROUND, ETC. - NOT JUST CULTURE.
The terrain of heaven also varies wildly - from gardens, forests, or CATTLE FILLED PASTURES in some accounts, to clouds, COMPUTER ROOMS, or castles in others. A TEXAN SAW BARBED WIRE FENCES IN THE AFTERLIFE; Micronesians describe large, noisy CITIES WITH CARS AND SKYSCRAPERS.
Drug addicts, atheists, suicides, hedonists, felons (murder), abusers, and gay people have claimed to encounter heaven. Strangely, people have claimed to enter hell FOR THE SAME REASONS. Contradictions abound.
This is a wonder. Is the hereafter actually mining and refining in factories, the materials needed to build castles, cars, barbed wire fences, computers, and skyscrapers? Has the hereafter developed the tools and machinery needed to manufacture? Where is the afterlife getting the raw materials and tools needed to manufacture and construct those ever-increasing cubes, cages, and rooms in hell that some claim? And is it demons that actually do the assembling/building/placement? Or who? And, exactly which of the variety of hells do you actually go to? The Christian one? Hindu? Buddhist? Spiritualist? Muslim? Strangely, the answer seems to be whichever one the experiencer has been exposed to. Thai Buddhist afterlife voyagers claim to encounter lord Yama and Yamatoots, complete with talking dead roosters accusing them, and being sentenced for butchering and eating chickens. Does that mean westerners also will be going to Buddhist hell for eating chicken? And what fuel do those spiritual cars run on? Wouldn't the hereafter then require waste disposal and a sewage system as well? The problems are myriad.
Even in her rather homogenous western European clientele, Kübler-Ross could see the effects of early enculturation: “I never encountered a Protestant child who saw the Virgin Mary in his last minutes, yet she was perceived by many Catholic children.”
But there also are some hard-to-explain differences, Melvin Morse says. Whereas American near-death survivors are typically sent back by God because “it’s not your time yet,” INDIA'S AFTERLIFE VISITORS ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE TOLD THERE WAS A “CLERICAL ERROR.”
Even more curious: SOMETIMES THE BEING OF LIGHT IS ELVIS PRESLEY. Moody has chronicled at least two such sightings.
Yet the evidence for near-death paranormal powers remains shaky at best. TWO STUDIES HAVE FOUND THAT PATIENTS’ “OUT OF BODY” ACCOUNTS OF WHAT HAPPENED IN THE OPERATING ROOM WERE WRONG. So were the 1988 Armageddon forecasts hyped by Ring and others.
But what about veridical NDEs - near-death experiences in which the person supposedly sees something they couldn’t otherwise have known while ‘flat-lining’ and others are able to verify that what they saw is indeed correct. The most notorious example of this is Maria’s shoe. A lady named Maria reportedly left her body, floated around and saw a shoe on a ledge outside her hospital window, that she ‘couldn’t have possibly seen.’ Her critical care provider, Kimberly Clark, looked outside and saw the shoe, just as described. BUT WHEN RESEARCHERS TRIED TO TRACK DOWN MARIA TO CONFIRM CLARK'S STORY, THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO FIND ANY SUCH PERSON OR ANYONE ELSE TO CORROBORATE THE ACCOUNT. And when they placed a shoe on the ledge, it was clearly visible from the hospital room, PROVING CLARK HAD EXAGGERATED AT LEAST PART OF THE STORY. Here’s the topper. There is no record of Maria being in that hospital.
Michael Sabom, however, offers a compromise stance: He rejects the idea that they provide glimpses of a heaven or hell. "I’m not saying these people didn’t experience something odd. But I am saying that we should take it with a grain of salt, because IF ANECDOTES MEET YOUR STANDARD FOR WHAT QUALIFIES AS EVIDENCE, then you should probably start buying tin foil and food buckets, because THERE ARE JUST AS MANY PEOPLE WHO REPORT SEEING REPTILIANS AND WHO HAVE BEEN ABDUCTED BY ALIENS."
Sixty years ago, Dr. Wilder Penfield, a neurosurgeon, poked around the right temporal lobe of some epileptic patients and discovered that they would hear heavenly music, relive their pasts in 3D, and have out-of-body visions. Similar experiments continue.
There’s growing evidence that the temporal lobe plays a huge role in creating NDEs. When patients had their brains scanned after an NDE, it was discovered that they had increased levels of temporal lobe activity compared with those in a control group. That could help explain why only a small percentage of people who flat line have NDEs. When Dr. Olaf Blanke implanted electrodes into the brains of patients, HE WAS ABLE TO TRIGGER SUPERNATURAL AND OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCES BY STIMULATING THE TEMPORAL PARIETAL JUNCTION.
Thank you,Rabbi!
Michael, I am not sure how you are finding the near death experience as a possibility (many explanations available) but the question is being asked by your congregation today, by living people wondering of what happens after death. So, the question is very relevant to your congregation as it is to all of us. Your congregants are asking you whether after their death they will go to to some mundane, shadowy existence (which is not like the everlasting torment but still not much fun) or to some other form of existence. Yeah, they will find out after dying but they want to know now, that is the very reason for their anguish. This anguish is far more universal. It is extremely hard (if not impossible) to convey the idea of nonexistence after death. I personally see only two analogies (I don't think we can have some direct access to this feeling since we DO exist). One is our experience (or more accurately the lack of it) in a deep sleep or let's say an anesthesia during a surgery. The consciousness (the very feeling of being here and now) disappears for that time. Similar analogy is being proposed by thinking of our consciousness before we were born, although - arguably - this may not be this same (more to say here). The other analogy is by trying to understand what happens to people gradually loosing their faculties, in - let's say - dementia, Alzheimer's disease or alike. These people seem to have their consciousness being trimmed more and more, to the point that almost nothing is left and then what remains degrades and disappears. And so, this "on or off" consciousness quality we normally experience is not so much "on or off". It may fade away in stages to the point it disappears. Anyway, I am not sure how much understanding are you getting from your congregation and whether you want to dig deeper. I will leave it at that.
@@jaynyczak7999 why don't you try watching some NDE interviews? Many of them are very intense and many of them defy science as we know it, because they literally should not be able to come back, let alone be healed of their ailments, and on top of that. Many of them after their NDE have strange abilities to do things that we are taught are EVIL. Is that why we are taught certain things are evil, because they actually are enlightening? POWERFUL? WITH THE ABILITY TO HELP OTHERS? We know the elite want the truth hidden and kept for themselves. They will give us a counterfeit and call it real, but it is only partially real. What you do with the TRUTH is up to you. You can use it for good. You can use it for evil, or you can use it for what you think may be good, but is actually evil. That is called deception. Whether or not those who deceive us are being deceived themselves is a question unanswered.
Carl Jung took your thought one step further. He said that rather than speculating about life after death we ought to speculate about where we were, before we were born. His reasoning is that we may have come into this life with a purpose and if so, it would be important to try and determine what that purpose is.
I'm afraid of life and death. Existance is not our choice, death is not our choice, it's all a frightening horror story for me and many others.
Fear Allah but also love him. When you sin fear him, and when you obeying him love him.
No need to fear life or death when both are in the hands of our Creator! Thats the fact of Gods sovereignty over everything that pertains to each of us. Once you believe in Gods sovereignty over you, your life will forever change for the better.
I’m so sorry to hear that you’re life is so difficult. I’m not going to try to tell you to believe in any God. I’m just going to tell you that I hear you and that probably many people who read your comment will feel for you. Some will pray for you. Others will just wish good for you.
5th generation atheist
I never understood how xtians could idolize heaven yet fear death.
Your work is so important and appreciated.
Thank you both 💓
Because they, or at least a particular brand of "xtian" actually idolizes hell.
It’s death that makes us mortal and the fear of death that makes us human. Religion or philosophy might temporarily sooth our fear of death or distract us from it, but it’s unrealistic to suppose that either could possibly fully supplant so basic and definitive a human characteristic. We are genetically programmed to fear death, and we can’t argue our way out of it. (Animals fear death too when confronted with the palpable possibility, of course, but they, presumably, are less capable of abstract thought-depending on the animal-and thus less constantly aware of their own mortality.)
Good ? Me 2
Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die.
@@joseluisalcantarasanchez269 : Except for old people, they want to die to be out of their pain. I look forward to death as it will be a release from my physical pain. I also do not want to live forever, I just want to R.I.P. Living forever sounds like hell.
👏😐
Great episode
I really never believed that God being "good" would send any decent person to hell so I never felt hell was ever an issue in my experience.
It was learning, that there may be no afterlife that really made me sad, to not see my friends and family after passing.
But I guess you gotta accept reality for what it really is if you are a truth seeker
Are you a Muslim ?
Bart's attitude to New Year's resolutions 😂 reminded me of an anecdote about proffessor Bohr (Nobel Prize in physics 1922):
Scientists from abroad often visited him, also in his private home. One of them was wondering about a horse shoe hanging above the enterance door, and asked the professor about it.
Bohr explained that it's common in Denmark, and it's meant to catch any luck that might fall upon the house - so it's important the open end is turned upwards!
The scientist was very surpriced: "But Proffessor!! You don't really believe that, do you?"
"Of course not!" answered the physicist "... but I've been told it works anyway"
And that reminds me of the Irish woman when she was accused of believing in faeries. She replied,"I do not!..but they're there.."
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Pplp)
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Thankfully, many of us Christians, even here in the Bible Belt, grew up in mainline churches staffed by highly intelligent, highly educated, scholarly pastors who denounced eternal conscious torment, denounced the fundamentalists' understanding of inerrancy, understood the importance of cultural context, the relevance of oral culture mores, etc. I was a grown man before I attended a fundamentalist, evangelical church and heard my first hellfire and brimstone sermon and witnessed an altar call. With all due respect to other beliefs, the Christ I know personally is Love. Love is His essence, not a mere quality. His love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control and humility have inspired me and set me free.
You believe in a good God and one worth having a relationship with. The God you believe in will must be not only a great comfort but makes you a better, happier person. I like the sound of your God. 😌🥰
Just now starting the video, but wanted to say thanks in advance. FYI, I *am* going to hell - my dad said so, when I was 9 years old, because I made a random thoughtless unintentional subject-reversing joke that he thought was blasphemous and truly unforgivable. Naturally, god never answered my pleas for forgiveness, so for the next 10 years of sleepless nights, I assumed my dad must have been right.
So that’s how my formative years went. See if you can imagine all the cumulative effects that would have on a person.
You’re not going to hell.
I had similar experiences multiple times growing up and it followed into adulthood until I stayed away from toxic religious people and released the belief and fear.
Sounds like your dad was an idiot and an incompetent parent. There's a lot of them out there. You're not going to Hell because an idiot claimed you were.
Religion is child abuse.
My Sunday group may get tired of my telling them what Bart Ehrman says on a subject (they are much to kind to say so), but they might as well get used to it because I am not going to stop.
Stay at it until they throw you out! Truth dies in an echo chamber.
@@sirrevzalot Thanks, but, as I said, they would not do that.
I mean, as a nonbeliever and anti-clerical myself, I'm all for telling people that their religious beliefs are not as well-founded as they think, but you might want to avoid annoying them too much, because otherwise they're just going to block out not only what you say but also any conversation that involves Bart Ehrman's work or any critical Biblical scholarship.
@@samrevlej9331 Thanks, good point.
Prof. Ehrman's constant laughing used to drive me up the wall. Now I find it endearing so keep on yukking it up and all the good work.
It never bothered me; however; the combination of these two laughing together makes it sometimes hard to watch these series.
@AmorMagico666No, that's why I wrote, "...god work." You should work on your snark or your reading comprehension skills.
Your rematk reminds me of the famous novel "The Name of the Rose" by Umberto Eco where a fundamentalisic misanthropic monk is killing many confreres to avoid getting to know Aristotle's book on laughter...
that's just how I felt. his laughter lightens things up and keeps everyone, including himself, from taking ourselves too seriously.. always an attribute of Religion.
@Jim Maughan - I think that Dr Ehrmen laughs so because he loves what he does and can't wait to talk about it. He wants to help others understand. He is one of those teachers who loves to see the light go on in his students' eyes instead of browbeating them until it goes out.
I like to think that Bart channels Desiderius Erasmus. I find it amazing that religious scholars have much different conceptions about religions than true believers.
Learn Greek. Go for it! I took it in college when I was still young and adventurous. Had to translate Euripides before the end of my first year. Forty five years later I am still using it and still learning new things about it.
If the people from my evangelical church as a child are in heaven, then I’m not going there. I couldn’t stand to be around them every Sunday. I couldn’t imagine being around them for eternity. Now THAT would be hell!
Megan is so great at this! I don't know who put these two together but its a winner for sure! Thanks guys.
The Truth will set you free. Free from false teachings of a fiery hell. Thank you Bart.
Accept the Lord God, Jupiter as your savior. He is a Sun and a Shield.
Very informative podcasts! Megan, I love your hair. My daughter usually had purple, pink, blue or green hair. I lost her when she was 39. 💔Thank you for being unique - I could adopt you in a heartbeat! 💜
I like that color too! It's the same color as my first car, a 1964 VW imported from the UK!🤣
Don’t follow this. If your daughter also died her hair unnatural colors, how does that make Megan "unique"? The trouble with blue or green or purple or pink hair dye is that it never resembles anything like what hair would really look like if it were possible for human hair to be any of those colors. The effect is never anywhere near as arresting or striking as it’s presumably intended, just vaguely tawdry.
@@jeffryphillipsburns That sounds very narrow minded. People with brown hair frequently bleach it blond. That isn’t natural either! Are you going to criticize that? What’s the difference? Who cares what color people dye their hair or how many tattoos they have or if they have plastic surgery? I have pig valves in my heart, does that make me unnatural? Should I have just died instead? Everyone should feel free to do whatever makes them happy as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else. All that matters is how we treat others. I prefer to be accepting. Sheesh. I love Megan’s free spirit and self-expression! Don’t criticize her to me!!
@@jeffryphillipsburns This is what you focus on when you reply to a person sharing something about their dead daughter? You sound like a peach.
@@Beegee1952 Absolutely agree with you and your daughter sounds like she wasn't afraid of expressing her personality, which in my book makes her cool!
"Heaven is not discussed in the Torah, in order to emphasize the necessity to do what's right because it's right, and not for the reward, or to avoid punishment."
Rabbi Menachem Weiman
Excellent, very well presented 🎉
Growing up Mormon I was taught very similar things to what Bart says here: literal earthly kingdom of God, literal bodily resurrection, souls of both good and evil waiting in some sort of blah limbo prior to resurrection, no eternal hell of fire and brimstone (rather, those who reject God essentially cease to exist, bodies destroyed and souls in a void).
In my mid 20s I moved from a "this was inspired revelation to Joseph Smith" way of thinking to "Not revelation, Joseph just actually understood the Bible and used it as his authority rather than Christian tradition."
At 30 I began to understand how these ideas developed anciently and came to be in the Bible in the first place. At this point I moved to "God (if one exists) hasn't revealed anything about the afterlife. People just appropriate ideas that sound nice to them and assume it's from God because it feels good."
Jehovah's Witnesses and 7th Day Adventists basically believe the same thing about the afterlife.
Really enjoyed this! Am getting the book to add to my Ehrman collection.
Nicely done Dr. Ehrman.
Many thanks to you both for this excellent content.
Bart's reaction at 2:07 is just so amazing ! Those little chit chat moments at the start of the videos as real treasures.
I loved that.
Really well I di not know what book he is reading to refute for it show you OT
Numbers 16:30-34
King James Version
30 But if the Lord make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the Lord.
31 And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them:
32 And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.
33 They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.
34 And all Israel that were round about them fled at the cry of them: for they said, Lest the earth swallow us up also.
And Isaiah said
Isaiah 14:14-15
King James Version
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
The witch of endor and Saul note
1 Samuel 28:13-14
King James Version
13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
Mr Bart errored when he compare the breathe to the soul and spirit for
Numbers 16:22
King James Version
22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?
Isaiah 42:5
King James Version
5 Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
The Coming of the Kingdom
20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
And NT and using OT christ said what
Matthew 12:40
King James Version
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Numbers 16:33
King James Version
33 They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.
Isaiah 14:14-15
King James Version
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isaiah 14:9
King James Version
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
Lastly
Matthew 12:40
King James Version
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
1 Peter 3:18-20
King James Version
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Any time ehrman releases a video, I get excited 😊
I love listening to Megan and Bart. Please up the good work.
There's one really bad thing about this podcast's episodes: they end
There’s one thing bad about life.
What a fantastic duo. I'm watching all of these.
Thank you, Dr Ehrman 🙂
"The world is full of kings and queens, who blind your eyes and steal your dreams, it's Heaven and Hell" Ronnie James Dio
Poetically speaking, no one said it better!
Megan and Bart are the best podcasts. Love listening to you two together!!!
2:00 in - I loved the expressions when ML indicated her plans to learn Greek!
You two are equally phenomenal!
I absolutely love this podcast! Been following Bart's blog for years, but I love the dynamic between both of you. And I really appreciate your deft interviewing skills, Megan!
Bart is such a good guy. He genuinely appreciates the family that endowed his Chair.
Glad I found this channel !
Nice solid message -
I really continue to appreciate this podcast. I am familiar with a lot of these concepts by now but really appreciate hearing them in new ways and repeated with new topics. I always learn something and appreciate deepening my understanding. Thanks to you both and happy new year!
"There is no heaven and there is no hell.
They are not geographical, they are part of your psychology.
They are psychological. To live the life of spontaneity,
truth, love, beauty is to live in heaven.
To live the life of hypocrisy, lies, compromises,
to live according to others, is to live in hell.
To live in freedom is heaven,
and to live in bondage is hell."
Love the new hair color Meg!
Megan's hair produces a most wonderful effect on the background XD
I tried to tell this to someone a week ago and she tried to shoot me down. I understood the place of hell was created by the apostle Paul. A fascianting talk Megan and Doctor. Thank you most sincerely.
"Heaven is not discussed in the Torah, in order to emphasize the necessity to do what's right because it's right, and not for the reward, or to avoid punishment."
Rabbi Menachem Weiman
@@waitstill7091 it's not discussed in the Torah cos people didnt believe in it when it was written.
How is hell created by the apostle Paul ?
@@Peanut888.. Paul wrote to the romans about hell. Jesus never mentioned hell, as pointed out by Dr Ehrmann. And thanks for your question.
@@zapkvr And neither did Paul mention hellfire.
Either Heaven, Hell or Valhalla, entirely depends on where you were born and the mushrooms in the gumbo that uncle Roy fixed up yesterday.
That was oddly specific. Is there a personal family anecdote around that phrase?
@@samrevlej9331 Not especially. Obey authority and pay the jizra when applicable was all I ever got outta those mind twisters.
Thanks, I have learned a lot...
Bart cracked me up. Thanks.
The fear tactic does not work on me. I figure that a [g]od who would cast his creation into an eternal hellfire, where there is weeping gnashing of teeth, is bad parenting at its finest.
But maybe God exists AND God is a bad parent.
Another great historical account of the perceptions of the times and how they affected the writings and interpretations of followers.
The Mounce textbook and workbook made learning Koine Greek easy for me. Great didactic method. 👍
Megan, the new lighting makes you look much better in this video. The old lighting totally washed you out in previous videos!
I am convinced Zoroastrianism influenced Christian idea of eternal punishment
The jews lived for over 200 years under Persian rules. So your´s seems to be a well based conviction.
@@norbertjendruschj9121 Moreover, where do we think the name Pharisees came from (spoiler: from the Aramic word meaning 'Persian')
@@nicklausbrain I can remember Ehrman giving Pharisee originating from Hebr. פְּרוּשִׁים peruschim, meaning persons separated from common people.
The Jews thought highly of the Persians who freed them from Babylonian captivity. The Zoroastrians were nearly monotheistic, at least more so that the polytheistic Babylonians. It's reasonable to think the Jews would borrow useful religious ideas from the Persians.
This man ought to have a million plus subscribers. The truth isn’t convenient, though.
Thanks for being you, Mr B E.
My suggestion is to read about the distinction between eustress & distress.
Also relevant is the subject of "Positive Psychology", but because I have reasonable Epistemic standards inspired by Karl Popper's version of Philosophy of Science, I must forewarn that I suspect large swaths of Positive Psychology (or maybe everything under the Positive Psychology umbrella) are not science, but merely pseudoscience.
I regularly discover more reasons to have my doubts about much of psychology & psychiatry, especially in light of the long term Replicability Crisis.
could we get a more in depth conversation about peter’s apocalypse? wonderful thoughts and articulation as always, bart!
Dr. Ehrman thank you so much for being a voice to help me conquer my fear of death
ARE YOU STILL SCARED 🤡❓
@@harryhagman6063 not anymore
@@lukelamar8188 AWESOME. JUST ASKING ARE YOU AFFILIATED WITH ANY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS DENOMINATIONS ETC.?
I grew up In the Methodist Church, which is generally a little bit more liberal/open minded. Then through middle and high school I attended a conservative Baptist private school. I would hear a more loving message at church, and they more hellfire a message at school. Do this or you’ll burn in hell. Through college and my later 20s I was Distant from church, not because I wanted to be just because I was busy and working on myself. Later going through some hardships and some guilt, the old fear crept back into me and took me down a dark pass where I was in fear of hell fire. Dr. Barth along with countless other authors, therapy, mindfulness, meditation, and exercise has helped me rise above my fear of death. Dr. Bart was a key figure, and as a result I am the happiest I’ve been in many years when it comes to mental health.
You will burn and be tortured forever by demons
Has Bart ever thought of doing an online video course teaching an introduction to Koine Greek? That would be very interesting.
I think Bart suggests classical Greek instead of Kione. Anyway he is a historian not a language teacher.
Thank You❤🇺🇸
Wow that hair is really blueish greenish very aquatic type …but beautiful 😊. Love this episode thank you both!
On the subject of Misquoting the Bible, I have often wondered what the Greek written text of _The Lord's Prayer_ actually translates to. My mother was a Catholics and my father was of one of the Protestant churches. I was raised in the Catholic Church where we were taught Trespasses/Trespassers where my dad's church said Debts/Debtors. I certainly see a huge difference between committing a Trespass upon my neighbor, and being in debt or they to me.
this part was originally written in Aramaic, not Greek. The literal translation from the Aramaic is: O Birther! Father-Mother of the Cosmos, you create all that moves in light./ Focus your light within us - make it useful: as the rays of a beacon show the way./ Unite our “I can” to yours, so that we walk as kings and queens with every creature./ Create in me a divine cooperation - from many selves, one voice, one action./ Grant what we need each day in bread and insight./ Forgive our hidden past, the secret shames, as we consistently forgive what others hide./ Deceived neither by the outer nor the inner - free us to walk your path with joy./ From you is born all ruling will, the power and life to do, the song that beautifies all from age to age it renews. Amen.
@@Kainis80 I've heard of this translation, but from what I've heard it's been debunked as being translated for a wishy-washy crowd looking for a mother-god or neuter-god, rather than father-god about the time they came out with a translation of the bible where All references of/about god were placed in the female gender.
@@sailorbychoice1 If you look at the Old Testament, the idea of an "Abba" God, is relatively new and doesn't really creep in until the Greeks controlled the Levant. Before then, God had at times been asexual and, at others, had a wife. If you trust the traditional telling of Jesus in an actual historical context of the first centuries BCE/AD, you would find that he too would have not understood God to have been an abba figure, as it was a hellenized concept. Very similar to the concept of heaven and hell as we know of it today - also came from hellenized jews.
@@Kainis80 What's your source for the lord's prayer being in Aramaic?
@Tommy Hickcox the pope a few years ago in an interview, many Israeli rabbis, and every scholar that studies the New Testament - all agree that the commoners tongue in the area, at time, was Aramaic. The "langua franka" of trade, was Greek. The administrative language was also Greek, and is the language that the romans used when communicating to the jews. The only jews who spoke greek as a "typical vernacular" were the hellenized jews of the upper classes, such as the supposed Saul of Tarsus.
Why would anyone EVER want to live forever?
It's a pretty simple bit of logic: "Hey, I value this thing which I have a limited amount of. Wouldn't it be cool if I had unlimited amounts of that thing?". Of course, just like King Midas, the simple logic misses some important consequences in the end.
@@Kyeudo Actually, it isn’t. Not really. Value isn’t based on what something is, but what it isn’t. Diamonds are valuable because they’re *uncommon.* Life is likewise valuable because it’s *short.* Infinite life cheapens life’s value infinitely. Besides, you only know life in the context of death and vice versa, so don’t go hating on death. It’s probably what gives your life it’s greatest value, anyway 😂
@@sirrevzalot
["Value isn’t based on what something is, but what it isn’t. "]
Yes, but understanding why a thing is valued is harder than just understanding that you do value the thing.
['Infinite life cheapens life’s value infinitely."]
Right, but that's one of those important consequences I mentioned. Until you consider those, the initial logic seems sound.
"More of a good thing is a good thing, right?" _Drowns in ocean of wine._
I think the point of Christianity is that it affects your behavioral patterns in a way that you reach psychological heaven and WANT to live forever.
❤ this.
Love the Turqouise hair!
I have watched many of Bart's videos & can't thank him enough for helping me open my eyes to the truth. I was brought up by Christian parents who believed every word in the Bible was true. They thought blind faith was a virtue & questions about the Bibles origins were not be asked. Now I am older, I think that if there is a God he has given us brains to be curious & to ask questions . Surely it is not a sin so seek the truth as some fundamentalists seem to think ? After all I think everybody would condemn the Taliban for banning girls from going to school !
Our churches have seemingly conspired to make being a Christian very complicated. They also go to great lengths to gloss over all the many bad bits in the Old Testament that are unacceptable behaviour for a so called loving God. They have added on all sorts of doctrines, dogmas & traditions to what was a really simple message from Jesus. This is essentially about treating other people as you would like to be treated yourself and not judging others. You don't really need faith to do this or go to church twice on a Sunday. Just do it.
Exactly!
My views exactly!
I knew a man once who said, "Death smiles at us all. All a man can do is smile back."
From the gladiator movie? Really
Another from the same movie said, "What we do in life echoes in eternity."
Fabulous hair!
Megan's as well.
@@jps0117 I chuckled 😀
Do medieval Fencing, it is a lot of fun and great for stress relief
Another interesting podcast presentation on historical information of life after death and would like to add to this concept partly because of the concern people's comment below have about the fear of death or of entering hell and other options general portrayed by the bible and the amount of divine, fantastic division that exists between god and humans. Some of this division comes from the ancient origins of human creation by ancient Sumerians and the very physical difference that existed between these early Sumerians and man was reference in the old testament as natural effect god brought down by way of diseases and volcano activity and a very physical appearance of these beings as gods in the form of angels, Moses staff or burning bush or Ezekiel visions.
These historical events created much of the basis of kings ruling on the bequest of gods or as sons of god or the authority of god and do not embellish any direct relation to the inner nature of our human being or spirit, soul and karmic memories that you would find in eastern religions and beliefs. The physical portrayal lends more to control by fear using fantastic stories destined to humans after death that most don't understand you live on but die all up at death, this life is the only one, it doesn't matter when you die and perpetuates illogically the fears that surround death.
At birth we are infused with the spirit for drive and energy, a soul that provides us with consciousness, awareness and ego, and karmic memories that generate and guide us in the heros journeys we make throughout our physical existential time on earth up until death when these entities return to the God realm for judgement. The resultant self determination of what happened in that life guides the entity in the options of what type of life to re-incarnate into next at birth, what lessons to learn, to make us better humans in function and outcome and provide an evolutionary process for the soul. This requirement for learning or to learn is our sin so yes theoretically we are born sinful but it is not the essence of evil or satan just our karmic requirements for life.
Here, in the metaphysical realm there is no heavenly, divine and distant mystic physical presence throwing lightening bolts or heavenly battles of satan's demons against god's angel, there is no hell, but also no mercy, just laws, eternal peace, cause and effect and principles replicated by the ten commandment and Jesus's two principles we know in the physical existential plane to guide us on how to live our lives. This birth, life, death, judgement, birth cycle is simple and individually responsible, has no bearing on church dogmas, cannot be bought and paid for, not affected by priestly hail Marys, it is our life, as an individual and the decisions you make generate karmic outcomes if not corrected during life will be so judged at death. You are responsible for everything you think and do.
We're obviously in hell already. Just look around.
The bribed politicians will make sure of this.
This look -- Megan -- suits you really well. That blue/aqua hair 🥰
The resurrection from the dead (winter - barren earth) takes place at the spring equinox when Iapet covers Noah (Earth) with a green blanket. Enjoy the beautiful scenery of Shem's white blanket of snow.
Megan: "Were these (hellfire and brimstone) texts used for recruitment?" Hahaha!!! Hahaha!!! I know she was being very academic and serious with her question. But after healing from all that spiritual trauma in years gone by... she really made me laugh with that one. 😄😂🤣
I think it's possible. Maybe.
Just keep in mind, Bart mentions the gospel of Mark was written circa 70ad. Know what else happened that year? The Siege of Jerusalem and the fall of the second temple, made possible by Josephus' betrayal. In other words, if it was written that year, it was likely NOT written by a jew living in israel as the whole country was an active warzone.
None of the gospels were written in Israel. All were written in different locations. All four Gospel writers never knew, or saw Jesus. All work is fiction.
@Micheál Friedman given the dialects present in the earliest manuscripts, it appears they mostly originate from Alexandria, Egypt. Alexandria also happens to be the powerbase of Vespasian, who was Titus's father. Titus and Vespasian both being the generals tasked with ending the ongoing Jewish revolt, and later masters of that same Josephus, as well as patrons of Pliny the Younger and Tacitus.
Hell is not a place. It’s a state of consciousness.
Dr. Ehrman, you are amazing!
Question: in the book of Job, when his possessions are doubled, but childen only given in the same number, is it thought that this is alluding to a resurrection hope for his children?
Thanks for answering if you find the time.
Really appreciate Bart, thanks for the video. Thumbs up.
Good stuff. American Fundamentalist Christianity is a confused mess
Is Earth Limbo, A level of Hell or a Level of Heaven? Because to me it's a very odd place. Maybe it's a second chance, so a wise choice is needed.
Illuminating.
I love Megan and Bart!
Why if we are to follow the teachings of the bible why the hell was it open to so much interpretation?? why not in simple terms? Is it because it is written by men not some vague idea of a fictious being someone called god.
I've been dealing with this issue a lot lately. I went from a fundamentalist Pentecostal Christian with all the beliefs that come with it. To an unaffiliated Christian with an annihilist view of the Afterlife, to almost an atheist. The recent realization that I was leaning towards atheism really spooked me. I can help but question, what if I'm wrong? My wife is agnostic and had a horrible experience with fundamentalist Christian grandparents. I don't think she could ever turn to the church. The thought that I might be wrong in my belief is tearing me apart recently.
As an annihilist Christian trying to follow Jesus teaching in the Synoptic gospels. What people's personal beliefs do not matter. Most won't make the cut. I don't even believe I would make the cut. But that's OK. But if I'm wrong, I might miss the opportunity to help someone I care about avoid the fire. It's become a logic problem. Most likely, there is nothing. So nothing was lost. If Dr. Ehrman, the Jahovas Witnesses, and the Seventh Day Eventest are correct. I mention them because they seem to have reached the same conclusions as Dr. Ehrman, but from a theological perspective. Then nothing is really lost to the atheist. But possibly great gain to those that get to live in the Kingdom. But if the evangelicals are right, then there is great potential for loss. So does the mean I should act as an evangelical because it has the greatest possible losses if it proves to be correct? Please, anyone, weigh in. If you are an evangelical, I already know and understand your position.
Former evangelical here. Thank you for opening up. I empathize with your situation. For what it’s worth, I just leaned in. I said, “Fuck it, I’m going for broke in search of truth. If I’m wrong, so be it.” I had to learn to give up what I’ve no control over in exchange for what I could know, but might not ever ascertain. I now find this deeply fulfilling rather than anxiety-inducing, but the road was challenging getting here-I won’t lie.
Am I really any closer to truth with a T? Probably not. But I don’t sweat it too much one way or the other. I’m having too much fun exploring.
To get what life has to offer, giving up control over what you can’t know (i.e., afterlife) seems critically important to me. Go where the evidence (or lack thereof) leads. It won’t cease to surprise you, I wager. And in the words of Christopher Hitchens, “I like surprises.”
It's not a question of who is right and who is wrong. Everybody is wrong to a greater or lesser degree. And you will certainly never ever meet somebody who is 100% right. Even Yeshua had doubts
So, coming from a fundamentalist upbringing to now atheist. Hell is so hard to give up. The TH-cam channel "Paulogia" is really good. He was once Christian and now an atheist. "Viced Rhino" is also really good--also once Christian, now atheist. His wife recently died and he is still an atheist. You are in good company. Keep searching. The Old Testement's god loves to kill innocent people. The new testament is full of holes and contradictions. I equate my deconversion to Swiss cheese. The holes in the bible just kept expanding and increasing until there was nothing left. Keep questioning. We are all here for you.
@@sirrevzalot I THEN PLAN ON GETTING LAID A MANY MANY TIMES GALORE?👙🤡
@sirrevzalot6772 That is really what I did in 2014. It opened me to a new thinking about the teaching of Jesus. I try to help others when I can. And I stand in opposition to the consume consume consume model of our society. Just recently, I found myself flirting with true atheism, and it kinda freaked me out. I'm vary science minded. But I'm not sure I can really not believe. Honestly, like Dr. Ehrman, I've come to believe that Jesus taught that we should work to reduce human suffering right here, as emphasized in the parable of the Goates and Sheep. Believe doesn't factor into it. It's a teaching that forms the basis of my morality and gives me an ideal to aspire to. It's where I'm going to be when I get through all of this. I'm pretty sure of that. Just sometimes the "I hope I'm on the right path" seeps in.
@Bart D. Ehrman
Another in person debate with a fundy would be fantastic. I attended both the Butt / Bird debates and they were extremely entertaining.
Everybody is going to somebody's hell :D
yes..the church loves the punishment" 3 card monte" ..keeps the Sunday pew attendants scared out of their brain ... and the dollars rolling in.
God is perfect, all seeing and all knowing, but he just needs money. Not good with money.
Btw the answer to the title is:
Yes and no.
Everyone gets to have their own interpretation of all the talk around this topic, so in the end, you get to pick whatever works for you and tell everyone else they’re wrong… because they all are and aren’t.
Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama Hare Hare
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna Hare Hare !!🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹
„I shall ransom them from the power of Sheol; I shall redeem them from Death. O Death, where are your plagues? O Sheol, where is your sting? Compassion is hidden from my eyes.“
Hosea 13:14
The whole Hosea is a complaint, a conviction, a damnation against Israel having defected from God.
Here are verses 12 to 14:
12: The iniquity of Ephraim is bound up;
his sin is kept in store.
13: The pangs of childbirth come for him,
but he is an unwise son,
for at the right time he does not present himself
at the opening of the womb
14: I shall ransom them from the power of Sheol;
I shall redeem them from Death.
O Death, where are your plagues?
O Sheol, where is your sting?
Compassion is hidden from my eyes.
So 14 is the damnation not the salvation: "I shall redeem them from Death" is the reflection of Isreals pleas for redemption but denied: "Compassion is hidden from my eyes".
In all the New Testament some phrases of the Tanach are cut out of their contexts and presented as prooves mainly converting the meaning into its opposite!
@@WMedl מִיַּ֤ד שְׁאוֹל֙ אֶפְדֵּ֔ם מִמָּ֖וֶת אֶגְאָלֵ֑ם אֱהִ֨י דְבָרֶ֜יךָ מָ֗וֶת אֱהִ֤י קָֽטׇבְךָ֙ שְׁא֔וֹל נֹ֖חַם יִסָּתֵ֥ר מֵעֵינָֽי׃
From Sheol itself I will save them,Redeem them from very Death.Where, O Death, are your plagues?Your pestilence where, O Sheol?Revenge shall be far from My thoughts.
From Sefaria
Interlinear: I will be your plagues, death. I will be your destruction, sheol. Pity is hidden from my eyes.
Or as Isaiah put it: death shall be swallowed up in victory.
Are you jewish ? Or on their payroll ?
@@DasWortwurdeFleisch
Lutherübersetzung:
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Hosea 13 | Lutherbibel 2017
Hosea 13
Lutherbibel 2017
Gottes Gericht über Ephraim
1 Wenn Ephraim redete, zitterte man; erhaben war er in Israel. Danach versündigte er sich durch Baal und starb. 2 Dennoch sündigen sie weiter: Aus ihrem Silber gießen sie Bilder, wie sie sich’s erdenken, Götzen, die allesamt doch nur Schmiedewerk sind. Ihnen, sagen sie, seien Menschen geopfert, Kälber küssen sie. 3 Darum werden sie sein wie eine Wolke am Morgen und wie der Tau, der frühmorgens vergeht; ja, wie Spreu, die von der Tenne verweht wird, und wie Rauch aus der Luke. 4 Ich aber bin der HERR, dein Gott, von Ägyptenland her. Einen Gott neben mir kennst du nicht und keinen Heiland als allein mich. 5 Ich nahm mich ja deiner an in der Wüste, im dürren Lande. 6 Aber als sie geweidet wurden, dass sie satt wurden und genug hatten, erhob sich ihr Herz; darum vergaßen sie mich. 7 Da wurde ich für sie wie ein Löwe, wie ein Panther lauere ich am Weg. 8 Ich falle sie an wie eine Bärin, der die Jungen genommen sind, und zerreiße ihnen Brust und Herz und will sie dort wie ein Löwe fressen; die wilden Tiere sollen sie zerreißen. 9 Vernichtet hat dich, Israel, dass du gegen mich bist, gegen dein Heil. 10 Wo ist dein König, der dir helfen kann in allen deinen Städten, und deine Richter, von denen du sagtest: Gib mir einen König und Obere? 11 Ich gebe dir Könige in meinem Zorn und nehme sie dir in meinem Grimm. 12 Die Schuld Ephraims ist zusammengebunden, seine Sünde sicher verwahrt. 13 Wehen kommen, dass er geboren werden soll, aber er ist ein unverständiges Kind: Wenn die Zeit gekommen ist, so will er den Mutterschoß nicht durchbrechen. 14 Sollte ich sie aus der Hölle erlösen und vom Tod erretten? Tod, wo ist deine Seuche; Hölle, wo ist deine Pest? Meine Augen kennen kein Mitleid."
Ihre letzte Frage beantworte ich lieber nicht, um Sie nicht zu entblößen...
@@WMedl well jews don‘t like the messiah and he already strove with them about the resurrection of the dead. It is however clearly in their own scriptures.
They have laid them as sheep in Hades; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning, and their help shall fail in Hades from their glory. 16 But God shall deliver my soul from the power of Hades, when he shall receive me. Ps 48:15-16LXX
@@DasWortwurdeFleisch
Firstly the Mesiah underwent a thourogh change during the centuries. Mesiah means "the Anointed" and was attributed to kings like King David or even noe Jews like king Cyrus. That is, a mesiah has never been a singular event.
In the era of the Babylonian exile the figure of a Mesiah was enriched with the hope for a return, the re-errection of the jewish kingdom together with a earthwide freedom and establishmend if an era of justice.
In the first century BCE an apocalyptic turn not only in jewish arose and changed the "nature" of the mesiah.
By the way You cited Psalm 49 not 48.
As usual only a phrase is cut out as a proof. This psalm ends in verse 19ff with:
"Though while they live they count themselves blessed-
and people praise you when you prosper-
19 they will join those who have gone before them,
who will never again see the light of life."