Elon Musk on Cybertruck's Adoption of 48V and the Importance of Leadership
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ธ.ค. 2023
- Elon Musk explains Tesla's decision to use a 48V system in the Cybertruck and the importance of understanding his products as a CEO.
"I believe it's important to have some good understanding of the field that you're leading. If you're leading a technology company, you want to be good at engineering. You don't want your product to be something you don't understand."
Full Interview: • Elon Musk and Sandy Mu...
Munro Live is a TH-cam channel that features Sandy Munro and other engineers from Munro & Associates. Munro is an engineering consulting firm and a world leader in reverse engineering, costing, and teardown benchmarking.
Munro Home of Lean Design
leandesign.com/
We would really appreciate it if you subscribe to our channel. The more subscribers we have, the more opportunities and teardowns we will be able to bring to you!
Sandy on X/Twitter: @teardowntitan
For more behind the scenes content:
X/Twitter: / live_munro
Instagram: / munrolive
LinkedIn: / munro-live
Facebook: / munroliveteam
Tik Tok: / munrolive
Munro Live Podcast: / @munrolivepodcast
Inquiries: Sales@leandesign.com
For Exclusive Content Join our Patreon!
Patreon: / munrolive
#tesla #elonmusk #cybertruck - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
![พบรัก - INK WARUNTORN [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n2wjOYVC38Y/mqdefault.jpg)
Fun Fact: the Ethernet standard for Power-Over-Ethernet is 48 volts and has been for decades. Tesla is using a very well debugged technology here.
So, no wonder Elon says it makes sense. There are already off the shelf components meant for use with this wiring (probably more).
48 volts DC! You're talking about 48 volts AC for Ethernet. Not the same thing. On aircraft 28 volts DC for anthing not piston aircraft is been used for a long time now. Aircraft usually have more than one battery too. 48 volts DC makes sense for this, I just want to know what's AC in this truck.
@@MrJava1593> Per IEEE standards, PoE is injected into a cable at voltage between 44 and 57V DC, typically 48V DC.
"Not the same thing" 🤣
@@kylinblue True, I stand corrected. power supplies are inplemented to feed the DC voltage. Copy that. But these power supplies go bad all the time.... and this higher voltage is for speed transfer but, the higher the DC voltage, the higher heat transfer too.
@@MrJava1593 Yes, but the power supply is a DC to DC converter, the other converter is 240V/120V AC to XXX DC in the main battery pack. The power supply you talking about is not on the car :)
24v and 48v as well as Ethernet have been used in aircraft avionics for quite some time!
Thanks for cutting these up in the short clips. Thanks for putting these up in the short clips. I prefer the full long video, but I think you’re going to appeal to more people with the shorter oneS.
What's disappointing is that Sandy kept asking specific questions about how the changes got pushed through and how the company dealt with the intuitional momentum of all the vendors, and instead Elon explained the power law. But they published this clip anyways because a million people will watch it just based on the title.
Just love to hear a ceo who really have this knowledge. He is a my favorite 😎👍
How embarrassing for legacy auto… they earned their legacy badge
Although 48V is not entirely new, there are already some cars with a 48V partial electrical system. However, 12V is still present here because, as discussed in the video, wiper motors etc. run on 12V and it is precisely these components that are still installed across models to make them cheaper.
12v & 48v have advantages and disadvantages ... CT drive-by-wire braking & steering really benefit from 48v, that's why they made the move. The pros and cons must be weighed out.
@@raphi25895There are also related safety issues(related to skin contact) that go along with 4x increased voltage compared to 12v. Typical skin contact being 500 ohms. This means 4x more current, resistance being linear.
Elon and Sandy has.. there is no negatives with 48v komponents. At all
Tesla switched most of all to make it simpler, lighter, better
@@KrustyKlown also the ethernet CAN
Excellent, I didn't think they'd be able to move to 48V this quickly but they did! Pretty freaking awesome. Using the POE+ standard (power over ethernet) as a rule of thumb, that is a ~48V system which allows roughly 15W of power per 23 AWG wire pair (roughly 60W for a standard 8-wire RJ45 ethernet cable). 23 AWG is very, very thin.
They're the only automaker vertically integrated into making (or at least designing) their own electronics, so it's not that surprising. And the pre-existence of 48V systems for PoE (and now USB-PD) makes it easier to adopt than, say, making up a new 40V standard.
So will we see cat 5e & 6 wiring throughout CT? Many car functions don’t need high power so lighter/thinner 24 awg car5e should work. When only data is needed, I wonder if CT uses the new ultra thin Ethernet cables
How about the CAN issues experts raise we need to sort with latency critical for safety critical systems
@@makdemir There is more than one CAN bus. Usually equipment is segregated so critical low-latency functions are guaranteed. Nobody is going to try to mix audio with battery management / motor control servos on the same CAN, for example.
The latency is actually only a minor problem. With CAN the bigger issue is that it is a bus rather than point-to-point, which means that physical damage to one part of the CAN bus can disconnect all the equipment hanging off of it, and not just the equipment that was damaged.
CAN busses are segregated primarily for that reason, not because of potential latency issues.
@@junkerzn7312 thanks a lot for a body/vehicle integration guy I am still learning vehicle network systems. I would like to hear your comment on this statement... " Latency and packet loss are pretty much the most important things to worry about when designing hard real-time distributed safety critical control systems."
How many CEOs talk like this. That’s why I’m invested in Tesla
Lots of CEOs also don’t say some things Elon has said.
@@MendicantBias1 more reason to think they are fake people
@@MendicantBias1 agreed but you know he’s not just talking BS like others
That's what happens when you have a strong leader that looks beyond his next bonus. Elon is in a position that he can do what is right and not just what the bean counters say he should.
I don't think a lot of stuff he does is "right", and X's firing of most of its staff was clearly a bean-cutting decision, but I admire the balls to do something wild just because.
@@scott8919 dude, X wouldn't even exist anymore if he hadn't fired most of the people
Long before Elon came along, Twitter was collapsing under the weight of self-entitled activists. They had to go.
@@davidelliott5843Yes, Elon is just cleaning up the mess Twitter created.😂
ELON should be LEADER of the USA & the AMERICAS .
Wish he had asked what the plans are for implementing in other models. And would have liked to hear about price premium from suppliers due to much lower volumed
I'm sure all future Teslas will be 48V. There's no reason they would go back to 12
I'm sure they brought some in-house. But for what's supplied, I'd say not much premium. Pretty high volume order, plus I'd imagine they'll switch everything over. Few % increase in range would be nice
@@samg5543 1 reason the Cybertruck switched to 48V is steer-by-wire, if they don't introduce that on the other models, it may not happen. At the end of the day, it depends on cost.
now that the foundation is done, its easier to do other models at 48volt as well. but i wouldnt bet on it happening soon. The 25.000$/€ model will pretty sure be at 48v as well since it will be cheaper to produce it.
then with that kinda mass market thing AND i imagine for economy of scale alot of the things inside the 25.000$/€ model will be shared with 3/Y it opens the door to switch to 48v there as well. which will eventually lead into doing 48v only to streamline the whole production.
It will be a slow crawl, like the 4680, tesla is moving FAST but its still getting bigger and bigger, being big slows down, even tesla. they are impressivly quick to adapt things but they have already lost how extremly quick they were on their feets in their earlier years. This trend will only continue.
Once again Tesla is forcing change where there has been a high level of resistance to change. I am sure that in 5 years or less all new vehicles will be 48V.
I love that Elon is willing to do these, most others with massive wealth believe they’re far too important or above talking shop.. or aren’t able to in the first place
MARY Bara is NOT Leading.
Yes they are shielding themselves instead of using their success to help others.
@@ralanham76 - Does NOT matter, Legacy auto is going BANKRUPT in 2026 anyways.
Tesla doing their own ethernet protocol engineering has to be the most epic thing no one talks about. It's like taking about how the Internet works. Not many care but how it has evolved is a huge deal. They did a lot of their own custom protocols with Dojo transport, also in cars for tagging video data
coolS what a babbling mess you composed.
@@mikewallace8087 Mike Who cares?
Tesla has used 4 years on Cybertruck development, and now they are 4 years ahead, compared to other automakers.
Ummmm, even with the 2018 model 3 , TESLA is DECADES ahead of Everyone.
The 48v architecture reduces weight which improves range and performance. To think that the other producers are continuing to design and maufacture EVs that aren't moving towards 48v is mind-boggling. It is literally free range and reduced cooper costs.
I am happy that more "experts" in the automotive world is recognizing that Tesla is in fact the technology leader in the industry.
48V-to-12V converters have been cheaply affordable for +10 years. It's about high time distribution starts happening in 48V. Powering a 5W appliance is ok in 12V but a 100W computer? It's nuts having to push 8 amps at 12V through the car for the computer.
Why don't you shed your demonic overhead so you can see more clearly!
Weight losses in those quantities have a negligible affect on efficiency!
Tesla sent all of the big automotive manufacturers a free manual on the advantage of 48v architecture and they still aren't implementing it.
I would have thought we would have had at least 24v by now
If Auto is an assembly shop. If the big suppliers don’t make it, they don’t use it.
The 48V systems and components will be the most interesting part of the teardown.
Indeed. I want to see a proper deep dive. Like all engineering you trade things off, yes the benefits are obvious of 48V but there’s a lot of other challenges that have to be met to keep costs under control, circuit protection, dcdc efficiency and cost, corrosion concerns, connector cost, cost to systems with small dc motors, lots of consequence.
@@edc1569 But probably the 48V battery/batteries will be heavier than the copper weight it saves?
@@massatube no, they just connect the cells in series to create higher voltage. Since the current is lower, the power is the same. Well, efficiency is slightly lower due to conversion from higher voltage down to 3V, 5V - parts that consume most of the power. But thats maybe 5% poorer efficiency than using 12V as the input.
When are you guys planning to post the interview with the Tesla engineering team?
As soon as we finish editing it.
Do the matrix headlights now autodim correctly? Does the auto wiper function now work? Are the park assist functions reliable?
THANK YOU!!!!!…for not over talking like last time and letting Elon speak.
I guess you didn't see the rest of the interview
Best part of the interview.
how did they solve the safety parts like air bags ? Did they use an adapter to power it or make a new product that needs to recertification ?
Legacy auto is basically Thomas Edison at this point. Dead set on trying to distribute DC power to homes instead of AC power because it's simpler for them, despite all the power losses involved. Tesla auto has earned the right to use Nikola Tesla's name because they are actually innovating.
Well said!!!
More Garbage fan club 😂. This video is more for dumb club to invest in a failing company.. This vehicle will never reach capacity he claims. This one ugly looking over priced dump truck
I still don't want to buy one, tho
FWIW, AC has higher line losses at a given voltage than DC. AC was better because generators produce it natively and it could easily be stepped up for HV transmission and stepped back down locally. Now though, DC-DC transformers have gotten so much better that for long enough distances, HVDC is better.
@@concinnus Yes all true. I work in the power industry and HVDC is becoming more common and there's a lot of different factors that play into which is better for certain situations. But DC/DC conversion without significant power losses is only easily done with the advent of electronics that did not exist 100 years ago. Electroboom has a good video discussing the pros and cons of each. th-cam.com/video/DFQG9kuXSxg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=PMT7MNhVCwCZOLV_
THANKS MUNRO,🤗 FOR SHARING THIS…HELPING US INTO THE 21st CENTURY 👍👏👏👏
I^2 R heating is the total harness losses based on total resistance and average current in all the harness branches?
The relationship between current, voltage, and resistance is explicitly stated in one chapter in Introductory Physics. You can basically learn this in 10th or 11th grade in HS or earlier. I think these laws were discovered in 19th century, well before a car even existed.
Henry Ford was an engineer at Detroit Edison, and Alfred P Slone had a degree in electrical engineering. I'll bet they knew I2R losses. Everyone knows Musk is a fake engineer
I bet Bob Iger couldn't hold a conversation about basic electrical engineering. Bog Iger couldn't hold a conversation about anything more complicated than Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. We need more Elons in this world.
@@bluephoenix8470I’m not some kind of Bob Iger fan, but if he were the CEO of major electric car company, then I have no doubt that he would pick up some of the important technical concepts.
But of course, he’s not a technical CEO, and perhaps there’s a reason for that.
I bet the CEO of GM couldn't talk like that.@@davew2040x
Legacy auto is basically Thomas Edison at this point. Dead set on trying to distribute DC power to homes instead of AC power because it's simpler for them, despite all the power losses involved. Tesla auto has earned the right to use Nikola Tesla's name because they are actually innovating.
Haha love the Ford ad, I got
Thank you Tesla for taking the lead ❤
I am not responding to your comment. I'm just using it bc I cannot find where to start my own. Full disclosure: not a musk fan. Comment: some people see genius. I just heard a freshman level lecture on basic circuitry and a fawning licker.
@@algurevich9141 i bet its really hard for you to reconcile his actual accomplishments then?
taking the lead in creating vehicles that are electronic waste/ewaste garbage that pollutes the earth worse than any combustion engine vehicle ever could and more costly to maintain and buy and insure also they burn more fossil fuels off power grid need fossil fuels for generator when it dies side of road and needs more fossil fuels to manufacture. ONE BIG STINKING PILE OF SH1t.
And embarrassing the legacy automakers 😂
NO spare tire !!!
I learned about I2R losses in high school. Not to mention things like power-factor, Ohm"s Law, Kirchhoff's Law, Polyphase AC Power etc. And that was back in the 1970's
That's all pretty basic stuff if you are in the electrical powered machinery business. I would think that a CEO who doesn't know that stuff would be totally incompetent
If you are the CEO of Disney, you don't need to know any of that.
Yes, most automotive managers don’t even really understand combustion engines. Otherwise they would have adopted a new high performance engine using only 40 parts as a hybrid engine over more than 200 and that with dramatically less internal friction and therefore also higher output. German industry leaders saw only problems with autoworkers unions and suppliers. So definitely no competence in EV too like Elon has and they neither go to talk at the production line or stay in the factory over night. But most IMPORTANT they ALL have golden 🪂 whatever hidden agenda they work on for sure!
Moore's LAW, Kradens Law.
CEOs don’t need to be engineers. Their expertise is in leading then whole company, advertising, sales, worker relations, etc. Leadership looks different. Not sure if Elon is cut out for that level.
Elon has created one of the most valuable companies the world has ever seen - as a CEO. I think he is cut out for it. LOL@@MendicantBias1
Sandy has praised other OEMs for radical engineering:
In 2014 he cited BMW i3 as a clean-sheet rethink of how a car is made. (Autoline interview from 2015)
the better is the foe of the good.. this is how progress works.
The way in which he butt-licks Musk is nauseating.
@@brendanpells912
WAAAH?
Really?
@@brendanpells912 I believe he mentions that it may seem obsequious (self aware). The truth is that Musk is actually Doing what he had been preaching for decades and this is a bit of a shock to see the the items that he recommended then come to fruition one by one and now in groups of fundamental changes.
Sort of like bread and water for years... then the feast.
Sandy, do you think all the subcomponents were converted to 48 volt by the suppliers, or do you think there are stepdown transformers throughout the vehicle to handle those old 12 volt components?
Mix of both, you step down dc with buck converters in this type of application.
I think it is a hybrid, some native 12V devices, some 48V - heck, maybe even some 24V ones from Semitrucks. But strategically, that is not the important part. It was/is a chicken-egg situation, somebody had to start. By switching to 48V, each component can be revised and optimized individually. As there is now a 48V consumer, every manufacturer will try to get a part of the party by being first in 48V. By Tesla sending the "How to design a 48V car" to its competitors, the whole industry is more likely to switch and that will help Tesla getting a 48V supply base up and running.
Whatever component uses stepdown transformers, in a year or two, every component will exist in 48V and then these will simply be replaced/optimized with cheaper, lighter, smaller, faster alternatives. Paving the way for the next generation mass produced car, and the Roadster. I can't wait for the 48V+Ethernet to be "backported" to each of the existing models, saving weight and reducing production cost.
TESLA mostly does EVERYTHING in house from SEATS, to HVAC to Airbags to Armor Glass, to HEAT pump, to TESLA bot Actuators .
@@VilleWittyes a lot of things are low power so they could have something about the size of thumb drive with 2 plugs to take 48v to 12v maybe there's a higher power version for over 10-20 amps. Then once they are native they can drop the adapters.
How does the cyber truck get its 48 volts.
It has a weather control device that constantly prompts lightning strikes even on sunny days allowing the vehicle to go on forever and ever and ever
My old Audi Q5 used optic fibre canbus with a positive 12volt power bus. So I guess my question is what in the vehicle is 48 volts? Did they change the entire componentry to 48 volts?
Yes.
@@KyleHubb So, window motors, vehicle lights, dash, everything now 48volts?
I remember on old Top Gear where Jeremy was talking about how "that'll do" attitude is what let down the older Range Rover. I think the whole industry has been stuck in a "that'll do" mentality...until now. After Cybertruck, I think the mentality is probably "Oh $h1t!!!"
The GoodEnoughs are in charge.
I see the legacy automakers doing the same thing they have done for over 100 years, even today with their ”all new” EV’s, under the skin they all look 100 years old in design philosophy.
@@toddwilliams5905 They're going to end up bankrupt (in some cases again)...
Range Rover have been using 48v for years. So have Mercedes and VAG. Its a global standard that is going to take over.
@@lfo414 From what I've read, they use a 48v mild hybrid system, but still have a 12v low voltage system for all the other electronics. While going in the right direction, that is a far cry from a complete 48v low voltage system.
What do they do for diagnostic port? Typically all cars have OBDII connector with 12V on pin 16. Do they still have the OBD connector? And if so, are they supplying a stepped down voltage at the connector? Are they converting the Ethernet to CAN protocol at the connector, or coming out with Ethernet and converts outside the vehicle?
They don't have OBD-II ports. It is only required for ICE vehicles since its primary use is to read engine and emission-related data.
Tesla has a "similar" port and you can get a OBD2 adapter for it. In anycase, the voltage is not a big issue. A low-power (i.e. a few watts) 48V to 12V buck converter is about the size of a postage stamp. Only low-power equipment would still likely need 12V. Any medium or high power equipment will run straight off the 48V.
ah.. the whole car (S,3,X,Y, CT) is OBD tool 😄
CUSTOM .but open PATENTS so Evenex & other can make Aftermatket.
afaik tesla has used an Ethernet port for Diagnosis for ages. it essentially plugs into the main computer, which then in turn connects to the other components cia CAN or other protocols. at least for the models before the Cybertruck. Also i saw in a recent video that much Diagnosis data is available directly on the Car if you enter a certain code, without the need for any additional Hardware..
oh, and there is an OBDII adapter for that ethernet port i think because the ethernet port was not "Standard" enough for some people..
Outstanding
If Sandy get another chance to ask another question "Can the CT do an auto wheel alignment for its 4w steering?"
His point about the leaders of the company understanding the technicalities product is true but the thing is that legacy auto is now largely about finance packages and servicing/repairs, which gives those leaders no insight into the startup technology of EV's
You ever seen anyone dealing with Tesla service? It's a mess. Pot meet kettle.
The Cybertruck is so unique and has a practical capability. However, at this point it is not for me but there are at least two features I especially like.
The Drive-by-Wire ability is so terrific where you can get a full wheel turn by only moving the steering wheel about one half turn. Also, the steering wheel itself is fabulous in that it is somewhat square and you can more clearly see over the steering wheel. You can also easily place your hands on the mostly flat top part of the wheel for a better position to drive as well as to comfortably rest your hands down on the mostly flat bottom part of the wheel while in FSD or just cruising without it on…… so Terrific …. It would be Great if TESLA would offer these features on all of their vehicles. I am hopeful the new items will be available for the line up in the near future.😊
Drive by Ethernet.
The Mark of a True Leader.
Mark of the CYBERBEAST.
I think Elon just opened up a new source of income for those in the industry who are willing to make the adjustments to manufacture components that will interface with 48 volts.
all your 48v , Belong to us - TESLA.
1,000,000% leadership!
Thank you, Sandy, for driving key questions from one of the key leaders of our time.
Great interview and good on Elon for making time for this interview
Using the Ethernet and 48V system is a very smart move.
The lesson is that any existing paradigm is outdated and can be replaced successfully!
Gotta love sandy. He knows his shit and asked the real questions. He told elon exactly how he felt and didnt sugar coat the critique
Will be interesting to see how reliable the thinner wires and tiny 48v batttery will be.
The wires will be thinner, yes. But the battery will be the same size / bulk. The only difference with the battery is that the internal topology will be different (16s for 48V LiFePO4 architectures... well, really 51.2V nominal). 16 smaller cells for 48V instead of either 4 larger cells or 4s4p with smaller cells for 12V. Same dimensions, weight, and bulk either way.
Corrosion will have a bigger effect on the thinner higher voltage wiring, but that shouldn't be a problem in a automobile application right? Its not like people will use these things where they get exposed to the elements. Works great in the lab, what could possibly go wrong in real world applications?
@@TechmoChamp Corrosion won't be a problem as it hasn't been for decades in gigabit ethernet. The wires are individually insulated to prevent short circuits with an outer cladding for the group. Teflon cabling is in common use in communications and has a higher temperature rating as well.
Where needed, a steel mesche is used to reinforce the wire and insulate it further from outside interference... resistant to abrasion.
What kind of weight savings are they getting? Plus a few% saved from resistance. Is this around a 5% range boost or even higher?
The weight savings will be minor relative to the rest of the vehicle. The cost savings, however, should be fairly large.
I saw somewhere it said $10 billion saved for 20 million vehicles with the switch. I think 100 pounds still helps, it's like 1/3 the average American
🤣@@TheZackrambo
I mean I didn't write it haha. Just read it, said at 20 million cars they would need 9% of the 2022 world copper production
The people who think Elon Musk doesn't know engineering need to watch these kind of videos.
It’s pretty basic stuff in fairness, but he knows FAR more than pretty much any other CEO
@@peedeegt Yes agreed!
People impressed by Musk's knowledge must be highschool dropouts. PS. Mary Barra is an actual electrical engineer.
Wow this truck is so cool❤❤❤❤❤
Does the CT have a separate 48V battery or does it pull the 48V from the HV pack?
it would be silly to have a separate one, i just asked this but 99% sure main battery will be 48 VDC and this even matching with the Tesla Powerwall for easy bidirectional charging.
My guess, just like other tesla (12V) cars, it would be a separate 48V battery. That's mainly for none-drivetrain use , like computer, doors, frunk, etc..
I can't see why it would be hard to do a ~48V LFE just like the current 16V LFE. I think if it was using any part of the traction battery Musk would have touted that because it would be a significant achievement.
@@t-lm No... I believe the CT has 2x400V battery packs
400V or 800 V is after the inverter, the battery itself must be or probably 48V. Question, do they give the possibility to charge/discharge at 48V DC without the DC/DC or DC/AC conversion. Time will tell but this should not be a secret, should be a common agreement with other EV makers too as well as solar PV inverter vendors like SolarEdge or Victron. Year 2024 will be the year of bidirectional charging. If they go with the high voltage DC route for bidirectional charging, thats also good, It costs more due to power electronics but need less thick copper cables between the car and home energy system. To make things complicated one can do AC bidirectional charging too.
@@Jessev741
You can be sure that every new Tesla model will be 48V from now on.
And most probably future revisions of existing models.
Of course.. the 3 and Y will surly get that with 2 years
@@yvan2563 Most likely**
Why 48V Though? Why not 50? Why not 60? Why not 120?
The chips that need to convert it, and for safety regs that it is less than 50v. Easier multiple of 12v and many other things. These all loop in a little to 48v is a standard now. Same as why 12v
48V is one of the most interesting things for Cybertruck. Thanks for great interview.
48v!!!? Big time game changer. A new future.
How big is the 48 volt battery in the truck and where is it located?
It only uses the main pack under the floor from what I understand. At 48 volts, you don't need a seperate "car" battery located anywhere.
@@powertothesheeple5422you will always need a separate low voltage battery. The low voltage system is used to close contactors and turn on the high voltage battery. There will likely be a very small lithium 48v battery located somewhere on the vehicle. Without a low voltage system, the high voltage system would always have to be on.
@@powertothesheeple5422 Wow, that would be an even bigger change using real time conversion.
@@powertothesheeple5422I don’t see how you get 48v out of main pack which is 400v or 500v I think, it’s still a separate battery but a lithium one with the same cycle life as the main pack.
@@powertothesheeple5422 Pretty sure there is a separate 48v battery and it also serves as backup for the steering
At what point does DC Voltage become a general safety issue?
OSHA has rules for over 50
Generally speaking, voltages above 48V are potential hazards if you are sweating hard / have wet or sweaty hands, but just like 120VAC you will only get a minor buzz in almost all cases. It is hard to actually hurt yourself unless your skin is wet AND the current runs straight through your heart (from one hand to another, for example).
I think 48V falls under many safety and fire related rules but it might take around 70 before you'll feel it. As long as you don't use your tongue! The POTS telephone service is 48V essentially but you'll definitely feel a ring signal.
All I was wondering about is the reason for the pot plants on the tables...Fresher air?
Do we know what the max home charging rate will be? Still 48amps or did they bump it to 80amp?
TESLA home charger is already 80 amps , if you wire it.
Tesla wireless home charger V3.
In a modern hybrid, is the hybrid battery system not something higher than 12V? (I believe it is 42 volts for a Volvo hybrid electric motor.) I think 12V was the standard in automobiles, because it was quite difficult to get a high voltage battery from cheap lead acid chemistry, which was otherwise sufficiently good for an ICE.
That is correct, the hybird battery system runs on a much higher voltage (otherwise the currents would be insane) but everything else still runs on 12V. I have personal experience with Volkswagen and Stellantis (Fiat) EVs and except for the drive system everything is 12V. Trucks have used 24V for a long time.
Apples and Oranges.. the drive battery is around 400V or higher.. some even 800V (again for ohmic losses).
The rest of the car is on a lower voltage (mostly for safety reasons, 60Vdc onwards can be leth al under circumstances).. so 48V is the ceiling there mostly (in reality spikes up to 58V or so).
Hybrids only have Vibrator sized Battery.
Lead acid cells have a nominal voltage of 2.2 volts. In your car battery you have 6 cells in series giving you ~ 13.2 volts nominal. To get 48 volts you just need 24 cells in series to get there. You just make each compartment in your battery smaller and have more compartments. You can make a lead acid battery any voltage you like by how many cells you include.
This is what happens when an engineer runs a company. Not an accountant, a lawyer, a sales and marketing guy or a CEO from another industry brought in to shore up the falling sales! Well done Tesla!!
The 48 volt system is the future for EVs, still might be a tad too expensive to operate a ICE vehicle with a 48 volt system or (4 ) 12 volt batteries.
Many modern ICE cars already have a 48v battery to power mild hybrid components. For example: the new BMW 5 or Mercedes E have 48v mild hybrid systems in the base models.
You'd have to redesign the complete system.
.
How many will invest that much into ICE?
@@rogerstarkey5390the 12v or 48v systems in car is nearly the same. It is there to power lights, windows motors, electronics, screens. If one switches, there is no reason for the other no to switch too.
A CEO doesn’t need to know ohms law, they just need to be told that they can save 75% of the weight and cost of the harnesses. 48volts has probably been considered by every auto manufacturer, but there are 2 disadvantages, all the >100 electrical components that hang off the low voltage wiring will have to be redesigned to work at the higher voltage. An airbag ECU alone will probably cost $10 million to redesign and test. The other issue is that 48v can give you mild electric shocks ( dc is more dangerous than ac). Both of the above reasons has deterred the industry to go to 48v until now.
I'll be very interested to see what percentage of the CT turns out to be actually 48V.
DC is not more dangerous then AC. It is the other way around. You have was less impedance to AC voltage then you have resistance to DC. AC electricity flows way better through your body.
P=IV
If you increase V from 12 to 48 with the same current ( I), the power transmitted is 4 times higher than the 12V. More power for the same diameter of electrical cables..right?
or thinner cables for the same power.
Yes.. but you don't need all that power. So it actually lowers the current required, which lowers the heat.. which lowers the wire size.. which is less material cost and less weight in the vehicle. But as he said, the main reason to go to 48v is to run the ethernet; and rather than having both a 48v and 12v system-- they just reduced complexity and simply made everything run on 48v. Makes sense.
Its intensity squared, if you up the voltage 4 times, for the same power transmitted you need 16 times smaller wire.
totally make sense to move to 48V, incredible no other car maker made this step until now but lets move on further more, will it have 48V battery system too? This would be perfect match with MANY home backup battery systems too without the need of DC-DC up and down converting. It would be easy to implement DC bidirectional charging then. Tesla and Chinese EV makers should think about DC bidirectional charging and also AC bidirectional charging finally. Talk with SolarEdge, Enphase, Victron too. Will you need DC up converter from 48VDC for V2H or just direct connection? Will you use let say Bluetooth communication between car and home energy system? Tesla Powerwall is 48V DC (before upconverting) and also BYD LVL is 48 V DC !!!
Most ESS systems that DIYers run are 48V nominal.. above 60V it becomes dangerous and one really needs to know safety rules to do stuff in that realm, as when anything goes wrong society will come in and investigate and discipline.
DONT need Di-irectional charging , since POWERWALLS exist.
@@markplott4820 The only danger to Tesla, is not the Chinese EV makers but if they employ people who educated by Discovery Channel university. Mark my word.
@@t-lm - TESLA weeds the Luddites & chair moisteners.
It's called Milking the rat.
Anyone got link to this 48v document
Thanks Sandy and Elon!
To the legacy companies, GFY 😂
I heard the 800 v tech is 2 400 v batteries? Explain 4680 Dry Cell?
Tesla huge advantage as makes/designs own hardware/software, metals, batteries, chips, etc. Battery storage for the grid. Over the air SOTA and FOTA. Supercharging stations part of msrp.
Has Cyber any CAN communication?
Hiring someone with an MBA to run a car company is like getting surgery to replace a heart valve from your yoga instructor.
BURN
Mary (you did it ) Bara , you LIED .
now Mary is FLEEING from EV industry.........lol.
AWESOME!
Thanks for another great discussion guys.
Munro teardown of CT will be VERY interesting to see how they implemented 48v ... a great deal of 48v develop activity and concerns have been going in circles on this within the automotive industry for over a decade. Did Tesla do it "right", or expose themselves to the known concerns? .. the teardown will tell all!! Look forward to it.
What are some of the "known concerns" other than what Elon mentioned? Is there some inherrint safety risk? I'm genuinelu curious since I don't "know". I'm dumbfounded that the auto industry uses CAN when ethernet has been around for over 20 years and can't possibly be more expensive to manufacture.
@@powertothesheeple5422 concerns, one example: water intrusion in 48v electrical systems .. is much more damaging at 48v than at 12v. Systems will need to be a higher level of water sealed.. devices, connectors, etc...
As for ethernet .. it's used in automobiles today.. it's expanding now. Tesla doesn't make their own ethernet wiring & connectors, they are just utilizing what the industry has already developed .. will be interesting to see what's inside there when Sandy tears down a CT.
@@powertothesheeple5422
Wow I really feel like I'm behind the curve, what is CAN?
The telecoms world has used 48V forever and has all the electrical and environmental stuff to go along with it. You want a 48V-5V DCDC in a waterproof enclosure? Look in a telecom electronics catalog.
@@grumpusmaximus9446 CAN = Control Area Network. Slow serial protocol, used in cars and factories. Fast enough to blink an indicator light. Too slow for video and audio.
I love listening to experts calmly explaining how technical magic works rather than idiots trying to make up BS of which they know nothing about.
Stop reading this comment section then. The ignorance is palpable.
Yes, it is astonishing how overall clueless upper management is about basic engineering. Another case in point is a clip I saw on Now You Know of the CEO of Ford driving an F-150 Lightning and apparently just beginning to realize the fundamental issue of having a decent fast charging infrastructure.
His admittance to the issues was crucial though and his kids ribbing him about passing so many empty but working tesla scers. 👍🏻😀
People get promoted in corporate America based on likeability and DEI. Competence has little or nothing to do with it.
@@bluephoenix8470 sadly correct SMH. Which is why corporate/capatilistic America has lead the nation into the severe decline we are ALL living with.
Farley is one of a better CEOs. He did what he did to send a message to his team.
Can you imagine #MaryLed Barra admitting to anything of that sort? That lady is pure propaganda.
@@600fba11 MASSIVE UNDERSTATEMENT sir
I read that Ethernet was invented in 1973!? I know it’s been developed since then, but I’d no clue it dated back 50 years!?
It's older than CANbus
1 MBit over Coaxial cable, baby! I remember those times!
@@junkerzn7312, was it not 10 Mbit or are you thinking of Arcnet? 10base5 then 10base2 were the coaxes.
Every car company uses outdated tech. I always hated all the brand new cars touch screens and how pathetic it is you have to pull over to connect your phone over Bluetooth. I'm grateful that this company exists.
What is ice spread ice healing , I stlll can’t hear that end bit well
How about giving credit where credit is due. Golf carts have used 48 volts for years.
Those chairs look so uncomfortable lol
Elon is VERY savvy about the tech in all of his businesses. Ya gotta love it!
This reminds me of the early days of power drills on battery.
You even see it in e-bikes now days, the higher voltage has many advantages when you tame the science behind it!
yes but it took DECADES for B&D 48v tech to reach Mainstreem , NASA had 48v Decades longer.
So I noticed that pretty much everyone (including Suberu) is announcing smaller EV pickups such as the Maverick.
Is there any reason that all the 'groundbreaking' tech that Tesla is using in this vehicle needs to go into something this size?
I've noticed that there are several drag contests between the Cybertruck and the Hummer. This is apt as the Cybertruck is probably the new king of bloat.
I still think that the only reason they added steering to the back halfway through the dev cycle is because without it, this thing changes direction like a supertanker
The F150 is a supertanker parked next to the Cybertruck, how do you think it (the Ford 5:19 F150 ) handles in a parking lot without four wheel steering?
@@craigfreeman9280 My theory is that Tesla realised that few customers will use this for real work, and that it will be mostly an urban cruseir, and needs the tighter turning circle
@@craigfreeman9280 It handles worse but not $40,000 worse.. idk how much you think 4 wheel steering costs but its not 40k and its something we have ALL been living without for over a century.. so.. hardly a "supertanker" and hardly an issue worth paying so much for.
@@Napster60 4 wheel steering isn’t a 40,000.00 USD cost option, prices for those new trucks reflect the cost increases from 4 years ago, none of which were ever set in stone. Can’t afford one, stick with the Ford or (gag) Chevy ICE truck. 🔥
@@craigfreeman9280
I have what I can afford already. Neither truck is an option at the moment.
I'm just looking at this more rationally then a typical fanboy of Tesla.
Ford is using ethernet in the newer vehicles. They started in the F150 in 2021 YM.
I have an early day 1 reservation for cybertruck for Sandy
Thank you these moments with Mr. Musk are showing the world that he is amazing👍
Does switching to 48 volt also mean that battery charging stations would be better if they were 48 volt too?
They are talking about the low voltage system.
On an ICE car, this power is supplied from an alternator, an EV gets the power from main battery via a converter that steps down the voltage..
The EV charging stations delivers between 200V and 1kV to the car's main battery.
Chargers are 400V and 800V, it's a separate system
@@Jessev741 No, the chargers are between 200V and 1kV.
There is not one 400V charger, it's a 200 to 500V charger.
The same goes for 800V. There are variable voltage chargers with voltage range from 200V to 1kV.
Been reading in technical publications for well over 25 years about cars switching to 48V been waiting for it to happen. Legacy auto manufactures are trapped by tradition so unwilling to change. Tesla kicking there asses in action.
Not so much trapped by tradition as trapped in an ecosystem and a supplier infrastructure which makes it very costly to change and nobody wants to go first because you will eat the costs and everybody else will get a free ride.
Has been part of many high end European cars for about 5 years. Suppliers like Bosch, Siemens etc already selling it worldwide
@@lfo414
So why do these high end European cars still have a 12V battery?
Am I missing something, didn’t they simply move to power over ethernet (poe)? An existing standard that has existed forever?
Elon says himself in the video: there's nothing per se revolutionary in that tech, it's just that all Legacy automotive is still stuck in 1980. Tesla is just bringing the cars up to speed to current tech. It's not supposed to be a crazy thing, except that the crazy thing is cars haven't moved to current day tech is all.
Not enough information in the video to know whether they are multiplexing the data and power on the same wires, which is what POE/POE+ does. But as Elon said, it is not that big a deal. Power is DC-coupled, and high-speed data can be AC-coupled, so effectively the two can co-exist on the same wire.
That said, I'm sure that a good chunk of the wiring is running power separately so a short / e-fuse operation doesn't take down the entire bus. Still, any low-power equipment could just get its power straight from the bus. It would be fun to know exactly what they are doing.
NICE
Very nice
Wow, 48v is big news
Dear readers, listen to me,
I have a tale to tell that's key.
A man named Elon Musk, you see,
Rolled out a truck that's new to be.
It's called the Cybertruck, oh my,
And it's quite the sight for any eye.
With steel and glass, it's made to last,
And innovation is its task.
But what does this mean for cars ahead?
Will they all be made of steel instead?
Or will we see new inventions arise,
As the future of autos we revise?
Only time will tell, my friends,
What new ideas innovation lends.
But one thing's for sure, it's plain to see,
Elon Musk and the Cybertruck are history!
Thanks from Woodinville WA
Love that side mirrors being replaced by cameras!
Could not provide little better chairs for “such important event”!?
Sandy: I'm curious if 48V is superior to 12V what is the limiting factor or point of no increased returns by having say 96Volts?
What point is considered the DC safety cutoff voltage?
Safety
The chock hazard goes from about 0 to danger from about 50 to 60 V. To mitigate the hazard on wires, connectors, electronics and connected motors becomes a burden of thicker, bulkier and heavier insulation, that increases cost.
All the semiconductors becomes more expensive too, as they need to withstand a higher voltage.
So there are downsides to the upside of lower currents, and eventually they balance out somewhere.
There are two reasons electrically, and more from a safety standpoint.
The main reason is electrical. ICs and surface mount parts are still relatively tiny with voltages up to around 60V, but once you go higher the SMDs really start to get bulky and the ICs really start to get expensive. There is no reason to make life difficult for the electronics.
A second reason, electrically, is that insulation gets more restrictive at higher voltages and less able to handle minor slices, cuts, and other things which lower voltages won't air-gap across.
Additional safety-related reasons which others have indicated.
-Matt
😄😁😆🥰Sandy, Good morning from Lismore, NSW. This is one of my FAVOURITES of you and Elon, two ENGINEERS talking👍👍👍👍
🕗13th & 14th April 2024🕓 - We are having a field day - 💥Bi-directional Charging - 💥Battery Electric Vehicles & Renewable Energy, 🌏Lismore Workers Sports Club.🌏
I'm hoping this will lead to plug-and-play components running on Ethernet and standardized computers eliminating all this proprietary incompatibility we see even among the same model vehicles from one year to the next. Right now with everything being proprietary to each make and model its very costly to deal with. Just imagine standard automotive computers and component interfaces made compatible with any vehicle regardless of make or model with the upload of a driver.
Even traction battery modules should be standardized for size and interface so that they are interchangeable between makes and models. We've enjoyed that from lead acid with standard battery sizes and interchangeability which makes for price competition between the various makers of those standard sized batteries.
It irks me that we have accepted so many devices that are now being made with a proprietary battery that only fits that one device or brand. I was at a wedding and was the only photographer that could continue shooting after the power went out since my cameras and flashes used common sized AA batteries and once the rechargeables ran down I was able to use disposable alkaline AA batteries purchased at a local convenience store prior to the event as a just in case.
Best!
So smaller wire. That mean more shorts? Not sure how it couldn't when the masses adopt it.
please give us an engineering explanation how smaller wires cause more shorts?
The reason 48 volts was not used prior is because of the need for ice vehicles to have large starters with high current draw. It was not very long ago, maybe 5 years or so, that lithium ion batteries were developed with the compactness and discharge capabilities to be a starter battery. Sealed lead acid, gel cell, and agm were the only batteries available that could provide the amperage to actuate a starter. 48 volt agm or lead acid batteries could not be produced because they would be too large to fit in a car.
P=IV. If you quadruple the voltage the then your quarter the amperage requirement to get the same amount of power to the starter.
@@Lorith correct but the footprint of a lead acid battery with it's aqueous solution of sulfuric acid and it's lead plates will always be fairly large. When you increase the size of a battery cell count from 6 to 24 it will always produce a larger battery. Also lithium batteries used as car starting batteries still do not do well in cold temperatures. They also do not do well when they get hot.... Which is inevitable in an engine bay
Lastly the run of wire from a battery to its starter, the single device with the vast majority of a cars electrical demand is extremely short. Usually it's a wire run of less than 4 feet, measuring from the battery to the starter and then to ground. The gains or advantages in 48 volt system are therefore negligible. I install solar and wind solutions on sailboats as part of my business. The 48 volt architecture in a yacht, where wire runs are much longer and there are significant amounts of devices with high dc demand (like inverters, bow thrusters, windlass motors, and electric winches) definitely make sense and have huge savings associated.
Has not 48v been standard in aviation for a long time?
A “starter” is antiquated tech, hybrid generators (in Toyotas) are a far practical way of starting an engine
@@M13x13M maybe in large jets. Not in small aircraft
The question I have is when the low voltage battery died under the 12v system one would connect a jump pack to external wires to gain access to the vehicle. Is this still possible with 48 volt system? Or would one need a 48v jump?
Regular jumper will pop frunk if LV is dead
Connecting a normal car to a Cybertruck will open a black hole.
A jumper cable for what? There is no ice engine to turn over to make the alternator generate electricity to run the whole car.
you Dont need jump anymore since NOT using Lead Acid .
48v Lithium power for System battery has 10x more Amps.
Got my answer from the latest Munro LIve. 6 minutes into the Tesla Exec deep dive they mentioned having to figure out how to jump start it. They put is a switch converter circuit that detects if you're jumping with 12v or 48v.