Elon Musk on Cybertruck's Adoption of 48V and the Importance of Leadership
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Elon Musk explains Tesla's decision to use a 48V system in the Cybertruck and the importance of understanding his products as a CEO.
"I believe it's important to have some good understanding of the field that you're leading. If you're leading a technology company, you want to be good at engineering. You don't want your product to be something you don't understand."
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#tesla #elonmusk #cybertruck
Fun Fact: the Ethernet standard for Power-Over-Ethernet is 48 volts and has been for decades. Tesla is using a very well debugged technology here.
So, no wonder Elon says it makes sense. There are already off the shelf components meant for use with this wiring (probably more).
48 volts DC! You're talking about 48 volts AC for Ethernet. Not the same thing. On aircraft 28 volts DC for anthing not piston aircraft is been used for a long time now. Aircraft usually have more than one battery too. 48 volts DC makes sense for this, I just want to know what's AC in this truck.
@@MrJava1593> Per IEEE standards, PoE is injected into a cable at voltage between 44 and 57V DC, typically 48V DC.
"Not the same thing" 🤣
@@kylinblue True, I stand corrected. power supplies are inplemented to feed the DC voltage. Copy that. But these power supplies go bad all the time.... and this higher voltage is for speed transfer but, the higher the DC voltage, the higher heat transfer too.
@@MrJava1593 Yes, but the power supply is a DC to DC converter, the other converter is 240V/120V AC to XXX DC in the main battery pack. The power supply you talking about is not on the car :)
How embarrassing for legacy auto… they earned their legacy badge
Although 48V is not entirely new, there are already some cars with a 48V partial electrical system. However, 12V is still present here because, as discussed in the video, wiper motors etc. run on 12V and it is precisely these components that are still installed across models to make them cheaper.
12v & 48v have advantages and disadvantages ... CT drive-by-wire braking & steering really benefit from 48v, that's why they made the move. The pros and cons must be weighed out.
@@raphi25895There are also related safety issues(related to skin contact) that go along with 4x increased voltage compared to 12v. Typical skin contact being 500 ohms. This means 4x more current, resistance being linear.
Elon and Sandy has.. there is no negatives with 48v komponents. At all
Tesla switched most of all to make it simpler, lighter, better
@@KrustyKlown also the ethernet CAN
What's disappointing is that Sandy kept asking specific questions about how the changes got pushed through and how the company dealt with the intuitional momentum of all the vendors, and instead Elon explained the power law. But they published this clip anyways because a million people will watch it just based on the title.
This is what happens when an engineer runs a company. Not an accountant, a lawyer, a sales and marketing guy or a CEO from another industry brought in to shore up the falling sales! Well done Tesla!!
Thanks for cutting these up in the short clips. Thanks for putting these up in the short clips. I prefer the full long video, but I think you’re going to appeal to more people with the shorter oneS.
The people who think Elon Musk doesn't know engineering need to watch these kind of videos.
It’s pretty basic stuff in fairness, but he knows FAR more than pretty much any other CEO
@@peedeegt Yes agreed!
People impressed by Musk's knowledge must be highschool dropouts. PS. Mary Barra is an actual electrical engineer.
24v and 48v as well as Ethernet have been used in aircraft avionics for quite some time!
How many CEOs talk like this. That’s why I’m invested in Tesla
Lots of CEOs also don’t say some things Elon has said.
@@MendicantBias1 more reason to think they are fake people
@@MendicantBias1 agreed but you know he’s not just talking BS like others
Tesla has used 4 years on Cybertruck development, and now they are 4 years ahead, compared to other automakers.
Ummmm, even with the 2018 model 3 , TESLA is DECADES ahead of Everyone.
Excellent, I didn't think they'd be able to move to 48V this quickly but they did! Pretty freaking awesome. Using the POE+ standard (power over ethernet) as a rule of thumb, that is a ~48V system which allows roughly 15W of power per 23 AWG wire pair (roughly 60W for a standard 8-wire RJ45 ethernet cable). 23 AWG is very, very thin.
They're the only automaker vertically integrated into making (or at least designing) their own electronics, so it's not that surprising. And the pre-existence of 48V systems for PoE (and now USB-PD) makes it easier to adopt than, say, making up a new 40V standard.
So will we see cat 5e & 6 wiring throughout CT? Many car functions don’t need high power so lighter/thinner 24 awg car5e should work. When only data is needed, I wonder if CT uses the new ultra thin Ethernet cables
How about the CAN issues experts raise we need to sort with latency critical for safety critical systems
@@makdemir There is more than one CAN bus. Usually equipment is segregated so critical low-latency functions are guaranteed. Nobody is going to try to mix audio with battery management / motor control servos on the same CAN, for example.
The latency is actually only a minor problem. With CAN the bigger issue is that it is a bus rather than point-to-point, which means that physical damage to one part of the CAN bus can disconnect all the equipment hanging off of it, and not just the equipment that was damaged.
CAN busses are segregated primarily for that reason, not because of potential latency issues.
@@junkerzn7312 thanks a lot for a body/vehicle integration guy I am still learning vehicle network systems. I would like to hear your comment on this statement... " Latency and packet loss are pretty much the most important things to worry about when designing hard real-time distributed safety critical control systems."
Every car company uses outdated tech. I always hated all the brand new cars touch screens and how pathetic it is you have to pull over to connect your phone over Bluetooth. I'm grateful that this company exists.
The 48V systems and components will be the most interesting part of the teardown.
Indeed. I want to see a proper deep dive. Like all engineering you trade things off, yes the benefits are obvious of 48V but there’s a lot of other challenges that have to be met to keep costs under control, circuit protection, dcdc efficiency and cost, corrosion concerns, connector cost, cost to systems with small dc motors, lots of consequence.
@@edc1569 But probably the 48V battery/batteries will be heavier than the copper weight it saves?
@@massatube no, they just connect the cells in series to create higher voltage. Since the current is lower, the power is the same. Well, efficiency is slightly lower due to conversion from higher voltage down to 3V, 5V - parts that consume most of the power. But thats maybe 5% poorer efficiency than using 12V as the input.
Wish he had asked what the plans are for implementing in other models. And would have liked to hear about price premium from suppliers due to much lower volumed
I'm sure all future Teslas will be 48V. There's no reason they would go back to 12
I'm sure they brought some in-house. But for what's supplied, I'd say not much premium. Pretty high volume order, plus I'd imagine they'll switch everything over. Few % increase in range would be nice
@@samg5543 1 reason the Cybertruck switched to 48V is steer-by-wire, if they don't introduce that on the other models, it may not happen. At the end of the day, it depends on cost.
now that the foundation is done, its easier to do other models at 48volt as well. but i wouldnt bet on it happening soon. The 25.000$/€ model will pretty sure be at 48v as well since it will be cheaper to produce it.
then with that kinda mass market thing AND i imagine for economy of scale alot of the things inside the 25.000$/€ model will be shared with 3/Y it opens the door to switch to 48v there as well. which will eventually lead into doing 48v only to streamline the whole production.
It will be a slow crawl, like the 4680, tesla is moving FAST but its still getting bigger and bigger, being big slows down, even tesla. they are impressivly quick to adapt things but they have already lost how extremly quick they were on their feets in their earlier years. This trend will only continue.
Once again Tesla is forcing change where there has been a high level of resistance to change. I am sure that in 5 years or less all new vehicles will be 48V.
You can be sure that every new Tesla model will be 48V from now on.
And most probably future revisions of existing models.
Of course.. the 3 and Y will surly get that with 2 years
@@yvan2563 Most likely**
I normally detest passive aggressive but Elon’s 48V pdf files is just an awesome way to give Legacy Auto a kick.
Hiring someone with an MBA to run a car company is like getting surgery to replace a heart valve from your yoga instructor.
BURN
Mary (you did it ) Bara , you LIED .
now Mary is FLEEING from EV industry.........lol.
The lesson is that any existing paradigm is outdated and can be replaced successfully!
THANK YOU!!!!!…for not over talking like last time and letting Elon speak.
I guess you didn't see the rest of the interview
Why 48V Though? Why not 50? Why not 60? Why not 120?
The chips that need to convert it, and for safety regs that it is less than 50v. Easier multiple of 12v and many other things. These all loop in a little to 48v is a standard now. Same as why 12v
How does the cyber truck get its 48 volts.
It has a weather control device that constantly prompts lightning strikes even on sunny days allowing the vehicle to go on forever and ever and ever
Gotta love sandy. He knows his shit and asked the real questions. He told elon exactly how he felt and didnt sugar coat the critique
Dear readers, listen to me,
I have a tale to tell that's key.
A man named Elon Musk, you see,
Rolled out a truck that's new to be.
It's called the Cybertruck, oh my,
And it's quite the sight for any eye.
With steel and glass, it's made to last,
And innovation is its task.
But what does this mean for cars ahead?
Will they all be made of steel instead?
Or will we see new inventions arise,
As the future of autos we revise?
Only time will tell, my friends,
What new ideas innovation lends.
But one thing's for sure, it's plain to see,
Elon Musk and the Cybertruck are history!
Thanks from Woodinville WA
His point about the leaders of the company understanding the technicalities product is true but the thing is that legacy auto is now largely about finance packages and servicing/repairs, which gives those leaders no insight into the startup technology of EV's
You ever seen anyone dealing with Tesla service? It's a mess. Pot meet kettle.
I love listening to experts calmly explaining how technical magic works rather than idiots trying to make up BS of which they know nothing about.
Stop reading this comment section then. The ignorance is palpable.
Would love to see Mary or Jim sit and have a technical discussion like this.
Using the Ethernet and 48V system is a very smart move.
The main reason why 12V lasted so long was due to lead acid battery technology which was needed to provide the cranking amperage necessary to drive the starter motor on a conventional ICE. With hybrid and EV technologies this is no longer needed, hence 48V..
No. That's not how electricity matters in ICE. It's the amperage BECAUSE it's only a 12V battery. The starters are designed on the 12V. There are 24V starters too, for really big engines, usually like Cummins / CAT and whatnot. The regular car will not move to having 2x 12V batteries, due to the expense and mismatch of other electronics.
A CEO doesn’t need to know ohms law, they just need to be told that they can save 75% of the weight and cost of the harnesses. 48volts has probably been considered by every auto manufacturer, but there are 2 disadvantages, all the >100 electrical components that hang off the low voltage wiring will have to be redesigned to work at the higher voltage. An airbag ECU alone will probably cost $10 million to redesign and test. The other issue is that 48v can give you mild electric shocks ( dc is more dangerous than ac). Both of the above reasons has deterred the industry to go to 48v until now.
I'll be very interested to see what percentage of the CT turns out to be actually 48V.
DC is not more dangerous then AC. It is the other way around. You have was less impedance to AC voltage then you have resistance to DC. AC electricity flows way better through your body.
Haha love the Ford ad, I got
My old Audi Q5 used optic fibre canbus with a positive 12volt power bus. So I guess my question is what in the vehicle is 48 volts? Did they change the entire componentry to 48 volts?
Yes.
@@KyleHubb So, window motors, vehicle lights, dash, everything now 48volts?
I^2 R heating is the total harness losses based on total resistance and average current in all the harness branches?
No CEO comes close to Elon. A CEO that knows engineering, coding and finances owns!
I'm sure it must help a lot when you know the intricacies of the positions under you and know the challenges they face.
It takes an engineer to understand what they are facing. Every other large company, the bean counters control what gets done.
engineers should rule the world not slimy politicians
Elon 7:30 calling out Nvidia's Huang!
Sandy, do you think all the subcomponents were converted to 48 volt by the suppliers, or do you think there are stepdown transformers throughout the vehicle to handle those old 12 volt components?
Mix of both, you step down dc with buck converters in this type of application.
I think it is a hybrid, some native 12V devices, some 48V - heck, maybe even some 24V ones from Semitrucks. But strategically, that is not the important part. It was/is a chicken-egg situation, somebody had to start. By switching to 48V, each component can be revised and optimized individually. As there is now a 48V consumer, every manufacturer will try to get a part of the party by being first in 48V. By Tesla sending the "How to design a 48V car" to its competitors, the whole industry is more likely to switch and that will help Tesla getting a 48V supply base up and running.
Whatever component uses stepdown transformers, in a year or two, every component will exist in 48V and then these will simply be replaced/optimized with cheaper, lighter, smaller, faster alternatives. Paving the way for the next generation mass produced car, and the Roadster. I can't wait for the 48V+Ethernet to be "backported" to each of the existing models, saving weight and reducing production cost.
TESLA mostly does EVERYTHING in house from SEATS, to HVAC to Airbags to Armor Glass, to HEAT pump, to TESLA bot Actuators .
@@VilleWittyes a lot of things are low power so they could have something about the size of thumb drive with 2 plugs to take 48v to 12v maybe there's a higher power version for over 10-20 amps. Then once they are native they can drop the adapters.
The Cybertruck is so unique and has a practical capability. However, at this point it is not for me but there are at least two features I especially like.
The Drive-by-Wire ability is so terrific where you can get a full wheel turn by only moving the steering wheel about one half turn. Also, the steering wheel itself is fabulous in that it is somewhat square and you can more clearly see over the steering wheel. You can also easily place your hands on the mostly flat top part of the wheel for a better position to drive as well as to comfortably rest your hands down on the mostly flat bottom part of the wheel while in FSD or just cruising without it on…… so Terrific …. It would be Great if TESLA would offer these features on all of their vehicles. I am hopeful the new items will be available for the line up in the near future.😊
Drive by Ethernet.
how did they solve the safety parts like air bags ? Did they use an adapter to power it or make a new product that needs to recertification ?
Will be interesting to see how reliable the thinner wires and tiny 48v batttery will be.
The wires will be thinner, yes. But the battery will be the same size / bulk. The only difference with the battery is that the internal topology will be different (16s for 48V LiFePO4 architectures... well, really 51.2V nominal). 16 smaller cells for 48V instead of either 4 larger cells or 4s4p with smaller cells for 12V. Same dimensions, weight, and bulk either way.
Corrosion will have a bigger effect on the thinner higher voltage wiring, but that shouldn't be a problem in a automobile application right? Its not like people will use these things where they get exposed to the elements. Works great in the lab, what could possibly go wrong in real world applications?
@@TechmoChamp Corrosion won't be a problem as it hasn't been for decades in gigabit ethernet. The wires are individually insulated to prevent short circuits with an outer cladding for the group. Teflon cabling is in common use in communications and has a higher temperature rating as well.
Where needed, a steel mesche is used to reinforce the wire and insulate it further from outside interference... resistant to abrasion.
The 48 volt system is the future for EVs, still might be a tad too expensive to operate a ICE vehicle with a 48 volt system or (4 ) 12 volt batteries.
Many modern ICE cars already have a 48v battery to power mild hybrid components. For example: the new BMW 5 or Mercedes E have 48v mild hybrid systems in the base models.
You'd have to redesign the complete system.
.
How many will invest that much into ICE?
@@rogerstarkey5390the 12v or 48v systems in car is nearly the same. It is there to power lights, windows motors, electronics, screens. If one switches, there is no reason for the other no to switch too.
I read that Ethernet was invented in 1973!? I know it’s been developed since then, but I’d no clue it dated back 50 years!?
It's older than CANbus
1 MBit over Coaxial cable, baby! I remember those times!
@@junkerzn7312, was it not 10 Mbit or are you thinking of Arcnet? 10base5 then 10base2 were the coaxes.
Thank you Elon, for allowing Munro to interview himself.
The Mark of a True Leader.
Mark of the CYBERBEAST.
Do the matrix headlights now autodim correctly? Does the auto wiper function now work? Are the park assist functions reliable?
How big is the 48 volt battery in the truck and where is it located?
It only uses the main pack under the floor from what I understand. At 48 volts, you don't need a seperate "car" battery located anywhere.
@@powertothesheeple5422you will always need a separate low voltage battery. The low voltage system is used to close contactors and turn on the high voltage battery. There will likely be a very small lithium 48v battery located somewhere on the vehicle. Without a low voltage system, the high voltage system would always have to be on.
@@powertothesheeple5422 Wow, that would be an even bigger change using real time conversion.
@@powertothesheeple5422I don’t see how you get 48v out of main pack which is 400v or 500v I think, it’s still a separate battery but a lithium one with the same cycle life as the main pack.
@@powertothesheeple5422 Pretty sure there is a separate 48v battery and it also serves as backup for the steering
All the talk about 48V and new battery but where's the improved range?
Fortunately , TESLA is able to MAKE its own 48v Actuators and other CRITICAL Components, and Completely redesign them as 48v on DAY ONE .
but it will take time to Trickle Down to Mod S/X and Mod 3/Y.
I heard the 800 v tech is 2 400 v batteries? Explain 4680 Dry Cell?
THANKS MUNRO,🤗 FOR SHARING THIS…HELPING US INTO THE 21st CENTURY 👍👏👏👏
This reminds me of the early days of power drills on battery.
You even see it in e-bikes now days, the higher voltage has many advantages when you tame the science behind it!
yes but it took DECADES for B&D 48v tech to reach Mainstreem , NASA had 48v Decades longer.
P=IV
If you increase V from 12 to 48 with the same current ( I), the power transmitted is 4 times higher than the 12V. More power for the same diameter of electrical cables..right?
or thinner cables for the same power.
Yes.. but you don't need all that power. So it actually lowers the current required, which lowers the heat.. which lowers the wire size.. which is less material cost and less weight in the vehicle. But as he said, the main reason to go to 48v is to run the ethernet; and rather than having both a 48v and 12v system-- they just reduced complexity and simply made everything run on 48v. Makes sense.
Its intensity squared, if you up the voltage 4 times, for the same power transmitted you need 16 times smaller wire.
Yes, it is astonishing how overall clueless upper management is about basic engineering. Another case in point is a clip I saw on Now You Know of the CEO of Ford driving an F-150 Lightning and apparently just beginning to realize the fundamental issue of having a decent fast charging infrastructure.
His admittance to the issues was crucial though and his kids ribbing him about passing so many empty but working tesla scers. 👍🏻😀
People get promoted in corporate America based on likeability and DEI. Competence has little or nothing to do with it.
@@bluephoenix8470 sadly correct SMH. Which is why corporate/capatilistic America has lead the nation into the severe decline we are ALL living with.
Farley is one of a better CEOs. He did what he did to send a message to his team.
Can you imagine #MaryLed Barra admitting to anything of that sort? That lady is pure propaganda.
@@600fba11 MASSIVE UNDERSTATEMENT sir
So smaller wire. That mean more shorts? Not sure how it couldn't when the masses adopt it.
please give us an engineering explanation how smaller wires cause more shorts?
Munro teardown of CT will be VERY interesting to see how they implemented 48v ... a great deal of 48v develop activity and concerns have been going in circles on this within the automotive industry for over a decade. Did Tesla do it "right", or expose themselves to the known concerns? .. the teardown will tell all!! Look forward to it.
What are some of the "known concerns" other than what Elon mentioned? Is there some inherrint safety risk? I'm genuinelu curious since I don't "know". I'm dumbfounded that the auto industry uses CAN when ethernet has been around for over 20 years and can't possibly be more expensive to manufacture.
@@powertothesheeple5422 concerns, one example: water intrusion in 48v electrical systems .. is much more damaging at 48v than at 12v. Systems will need to be a higher level of water sealed.. devices, connectors, etc...
As for ethernet .. it's used in automobiles today.. it's expanding now. Tesla doesn't make their own ethernet wiring & connectors, they are just utilizing what the industry has already developed .. will be interesting to see what's inside there when Sandy tears down a CT.
@@powertothesheeple5422
Wow I really feel like I'm behind the curve, what is CAN?
The telecoms world has used 48V forever and has all the electrical and environmental stuff to go along with it. You want a 48V-5V DCDC in a waterproof enclosure? Look in a telecom electronics catalog.
@@grumpusmaximus9446 CAN = Control Area Network. Slow serial protocol, used in cars and factories. Fast enough to blink an indicator light. Too slow for video and audio.
Great interview and good on Elon for making time for this interview
Thanks for another great discussion guys.
What is ice spread ice healing , I stlll can’t hear that end bit well
1,000,000% leadership!
48V is one of the most interesting things for Cybertruck. Thanks for great interview.
Anyone got link to this 48v document
Am I missing something, didn’t they simply move to power over ethernet (poe)? An existing standard that has existed forever?
Elon says himself in the video: there's nothing per se revolutionary in that tech, it's just that all Legacy automotive is still stuck in 1980. Tesla is just bringing the cars up to speed to current tech. It's not supposed to be a crazy thing, except that the crazy thing is cars haven't moved to current day tech is all.
Not enough information in the video to know whether they are multiplexing the data and power on the same wires, which is what POE/POE+ does. But as Elon said, it is not that big a deal. Power is DC-coupled, and high-speed data can be AC-coupled, so effectively the two can co-exist on the same wire.
That said, I'm sure that a good chunk of the wiring is running power separately so a short / e-fuse operation doesn't take down the entire bus. Still, any low-power equipment could just get its power straight from the bus. It would be fun to know exactly what they are doing.
Those chairs look so uncomfortable lol
I have an early day 1 reservation for cybertruck for Sandy
Elon is VERY savvy about the tech in all of his businesses. Ya gotta love it!
I’m a union /UAW employee and I oppose this change. All American companies only manufacture 12v equipment and this move will put us out of business.
Love that side mirrors being replaced by cameras!
In a modern hybrid, is the hybrid battery system not something higher than 12V? (I believe it is 42 volts for a Volvo hybrid electric motor.) I think 12V was the standard in automobiles, because it was quite difficult to get a high voltage battery from cheap lead acid chemistry, which was otherwise sufficiently good for an ICE.
That is correct, the hybird battery system runs on a much higher voltage (otherwise the currents would be insane) but everything else still runs on 12V. I have personal experience with Volkswagen and Stellantis (Fiat) EVs and except for the drive system everything is 12V. Trucks have used 24V for a long time.
Apples and Oranges.. the drive battery is around 400V or higher.. some even 800V (again for ohmic losses).
The rest of the car is on a lower voltage (mostly for safety reasons, 60Vdc onwards can be leth al under circumstances).. so 48V is the ceiling there mostly (in reality spikes up to 58V or so).
Hybrids only have Vibrator sized Battery.
Lead acid cells have a nominal voltage of 2.2 volts. In your car battery you have 6 cells in series giving you ~ 13.2 volts nominal. To get 48 volts you just need 24 cells in series to get there. You just make each compartment in your battery smaller and have more compartments. You can make a lead acid battery any voltage you like by how many cells you include.
All I was wondering about is the reason for the pot plants on the tables...Fresher air?
Please make another video out of this interview titled: Sandy’s non sense rant about Disney and Nazis
lol
I just wish he would just stick to Tesla and Space X, cause he’s good at it.
Been reading in technical publications for well over 25 years about cars switching to 48V been waiting for it to happen. Legacy auto manufactures are trapped by tradition so unwilling to change. Tesla kicking there asses in action.
Not so much trapped by tradition as trapped in an ecosystem and a supplier infrastructure which makes it very costly to change and nobody wants to go first because you will eat the costs and everybody else will get a free ride.
Has been part of many high end European cars for about 5 years. Suppliers like Bosch, Siemens etc already selling it worldwide
@@lfo414
So why do these high end European cars still have a 12V battery?
Funny thing is comertial aircrafts use 110 volts since like the 60's
That always seemed weird to me but i guess they have long cable lengths to run down the body of the plane
So I noticed that pretty much everyone (including Suberu) is announcing smaller EV pickups such as the Maverick.
Is there any reason that all the 'groundbreaking' tech that Tesla is using in this vehicle needs to go into something this size?
I've noticed that there are several drag contests between the Cybertruck and the Hummer. This is apt as the Cybertruck is probably the new king of bloat.
I still think that the only reason they added steering to the back halfway through the dev cycle is because without it, this thing changes direction like a supertanker
The F150 is a supertanker parked next to the Cybertruck, how do you think it (the Ford 5:19 F150 ) handles in a parking lot without four wheel steering?
@@Drcraigfreeman9280 My theory is that Tesla realised that few customers will use this for real work, and that it will be mostly an urban cruseir, and needs the tighter turning circle
@@Drcraigfreeman9280 It handles worse but not $40,000 worse.. idk how much you think 4 wheel steering costs but its not 40k and its something we have ALL been living without for over a century.. so.. hardly a "supertanker" and hardly an issue worth paying so much for.
@@Napster60 4 wheel steering isn’t a 40,000.00 USD cost option, prices for those new trucks reflect the cost increases from 4 years ago, none of which were ever set in stone. Can’t afford one, stick with the Ford or (gag) Chevy ICE truck. 🔥
@@Drcraigfreeman9280
I have what I can afford already. Neither truck is an option at the moment.
I'm just looking at this more rationally then a typical fanboy of Tesla.
Finally. Onboard 3D printers without psu or inverter.
48V sparks&stings hot! 24v seems safer also reduces wire gauge required of standard 12v systems..
Welcome to the world of higher voltages! But when making such a huge paradigm shift to a higher bus voltage, I'd advise that you move boldly - you'll not get another chance at this change for another sixty years. Getting stung by 48 volts may train us all to be just a wee bit more careful...
When working with ordinary 120V [North America] or 220V [rest of world] home or office AC wiring, we TURN THE POWER OFF at the breaker panel BEFORE touching the wires.
😄😁😆🥰Sandy, Good morning from Lismore, NSW. This is one of my FAVOURITES of you and Elon, two ENGINEERS talking👍👍👍👍
🕗13th & 14th April 2024🕓 - We are having a field day - 💥Bi-directional Charging - 💥Battery Electric Vehicles & Renewable Energy, 🌏Lismore Workers Sports Club.🌏
48VDC was first proposed in 1994 and has been pushed back by OEMs since the early 2000s. The irony is that the development of the CAN bus which is a data over-power architecture and more efficient modular in-vehicle electrical networks reduced the need to move to a 48-volt system. The concept of a 48-volt "POE" in-vehicle network is an innovative concept, and will help drive costs down for Affordable EVs.
Alot of people don't realize the going to Ethernet vs cambus is in it selfl as revolutionary as going from 12v to 48v,this approach alone has broken the legacy industry's,,coincidently the term legacy now truly indicates a place for the rest of the automotive industries 😅
CAN bus is newer than Ethernet and can be fault tolerant and doesn't need distribution hubs everywhere unlike Ethernet and actually uses LESS cable. It's main disadvantage is it can only run at max 10Mb/s but I fail to see replacing all of the CAN bus in a vehicle as any particular advatage, especially for low speed stuff - lights/windows/door switches etc etc.
@fredderf6491 as I understand it, the faster speeds offer better communications to components in the wireless and Bluetooth realm. It is said it will lead to a better grade of peripherals being installed in vehicles like smart devices in our homes, a pathway that can bus altho some what newer cannot support.
What kind of weight savings are they getting? Plus a few% saved from resistance. Is this around a 5% range boost or even higher?
The weight savings will be minor relative to the rest of the vehicle. The cost savings, however, should be fairly large.
I saw somewhere it said $10 billion saved for 20 million vehicles with the switch. I think 100 pounds still helps, it's like 1/3 the average American
🤣@@TheZackrambo
I mean I didn't write it haha. Just read it, said at 20 million cars they would need 9% of the 2022 world copper production
Increasing voltage also requires better insulation, but that's less dense than metal so it's a weight savings overall.
Also the chance of arcing through insulation for 12v wires happening with a 48v system is ridiculously small anyway.
pretty sure there is no pratical difference in insulation thickness. my impression from ethernet cables is that it is already as thin as possible to reduce material cost, but not made thinner because this will increase manufacturing/tooling cost.. and all the car wiring harnesses i have seen have subjectively the same insulation thickness as said ethernet and telephone cables, even though they are for just 12V. and for the thick cables its more about mecanical wear than about electrical insulation.
Wow, 48v is big news
Mercedes has been using 48V for their hybrid engines for almost a decade 😅
Shhh! It's a lovefest here!
@@boredKiwi
Munro is a Tesla scheel.
The Cybertruck hype due to looks has overshadowed the many improvements and tech in the Cybertruck. Maybe when 2030 rolls around, historians will look back and say the production of the Cybertruck was the start of major changes in the automotive industry. Tesla looking long-term and to Musk's credit he does push Tesla to do what Wall Street types want him to do. For Tesla that has been great, for X, well, X is looking like a massive tax write off at this point.
Munro is a huge fanboy who has enough money to say "I am going to buy two". No one is really talking about the horrendous price hike on it.
And Wall Street, once again, is missing all of this. Automotive history is forever changed, Wall Street is.. "Huh??"
An intelligent conversation regarding advanced automotive engineering. Elon is driving the world forward like never before. Meanwhile, Bob Iger is making the next stu__ Disney film. Any questions?
Ford is using ethernet in the newer vehicles. They started in the F150 in 2021 YM.
If elon simply "understands" enough to lead as a ceo and not as an engineer, why is he still there? It is obvious the company has moved past him and no longer needs him.
The commingling of tesla with twitter to fund twitter is something the SEC needs to look at. How much tesla AI got transferred to twitter for free? It is mighty convenient that he decides tesla should pay for advertising at the perfect time to pay twitter for advertising. He even pulled tesla streams from youtube where everyone can see them and put them on x where no one will see them. Where is the SEC?
He has no right to drain tesla cash and resources to help his investment in twitter.
Tesla already paid him 56billion dollars that he used to buy twitter. Tesla could have bought twitter instead of paying him like that. None of this looks right.
He's more than earned everything he's gotten. As a shareholder I'm completely comfortable with it.
@@kennyg1358 No one earns 56 billion dollars, LOL. That was tesla money given away for no valid reason.
The fact is, he did it to buy twitter with tesla funds. He pretended to be more liberal for the last decade, apparently that was a ruse. He became pretty involved in right wing politics right after he got that money.
He is fleecing tesla, but because he did not tweet about it, the SEC does nothing.
It's a pleasure to hear 2 intelligent guy talking. But you guys scared me at the end
They have a lot in common, they don't care about hurting anyone's feelings. Just tells it like it is.
I came up with the basic idea, and Musk's people (and Aptera's) changed it. I thought that the single power wire could be used to carry instructions to peripherals (lights, windows, etc), and increasing voltage, of course. Instead of using one wire to power everything and just send instructions over the power wire, they decided to use the extra ethernet wiring instead. That complicates some things and eases complexity, plus increasing the voltage has been obvious to everybody for decades.
one wonders why we haven't moved done this before. it is pretty obvious as E says.
I'm hoping this will lead to plug-and-play components running on Ethernet and standardized computers eliminating all this proprietary incompatibility we see even among the same model vehicles from one year to the next. Right now with everything being proprietary to each make and model its very costly to deal with. Just imagine standard automotive computers and component interfaces made compatible with any vehicle regardless of make or model with the upload of a driver.
Even traction battery modules should be standardized for size and interface so that they are interchangeable between makes and models. We've enjoyed that from lead acid with standard battery sizes and interchangeability which makes for price competition between the various makers of those standard sized batteries.
It irks me that we have accepted so many devices that are now being made with a proprietary battery that only fits that one device or brand. I was at a wedding and was the only photographer that could continue shooting after the power went out since my cameras and flashes used common sized AA batteries and once the rechargeables ran down I was able to use disposable alkaline AA batteries purchased at a local convenience store prior to the event as a just in case.
Best!
Sandy, you should ask Elon if he might consider going to Aluminum wiring. You would have to upsize the wire gauge by 1 or 2 sizes up to compensate for the resistance and lower conductivity. There is a company called King Innovation that makes excellent AL to CU splicing connectors with antiox inside their mechanical lugs that will safely splice AL wiring.
This will lower cost significantly and over the years there have been many safety improvements in the use of AL wiring, from the use of redundant mechanical lugs with proper antioxidant coatings to the AL alloys themselves being less susceptible to both expansion under heavy load and oxidation of the connecting points.
AL is also not just cheaper, but also weighs less than copper. As a property owner with a house made of AL Wiring, I've had no troubles with my splices and I really think Elon could make these vehicles more affordable by going from CU to AL.
Why can’t some electrical functions use Bluetooth and completely eliminate some wires ?
Because you would need a Bluetooth receiver on every peripheral - plus you still have wire to get power to it.
Tesla's PR stunts and marketing undermine the objectively amazing things they can do. Elon's got the knowledge of technology and how things tick and can be really interesting to listen to, but then he simultaneously does these slimy presentations where he misleads the audience (example, torque numbers measured at the wheel and then compared to numbers from competitors that are measured from the motor to look more impressive; throwing a soft baseball to make the glass of the CT seem stronger despite the fact they used a metal bearing four years ago, etc.). If he could just... lay low and let the products speak for themselves instead of trying to do whatever he can to anger the public, and he wouldn't be nearly as polarizing... whether the criticism is deserved or not.
A FIRST QUARTER TO FORGET FOR TESLA SHAREHOLDERS
A combination of lagging EV demand, stiff competition in China, and more antics from CEO Elon Musk saw Tesla stock tumble 30% in the quarter.
Thinner wires break easier. Bus-system is more hackable.
Joe Spielman told my class in 1996 that they were going to 48V. Why not 120V like homes?
Plato suggested a Philosopher King would be the best person to lead a republic. Maybe today the Engineer King is the best person to lead a manufacturing company? 🤔
@MunroLive
Regarding 48v
.
I heard that:
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Jim received the book, laughed and replied "Thanks Elon"
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Mary issued a statement saying "Already working on it!
We have 27 models with a 48v system due for release in 18, no, 24, no, 27 months"
.
Meanwhile
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There's a *Rumour* that Toyota will have a *96v System* ready for 13% of their vehicles in 2035!
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(50% of that 13% will be full BEV and a Toyota engineer voiced concerns that 96v in proximity to Hydrogen may be a problem)
Sandy: 48V is 5 yers old
Sooooo…..
In 1960 they decided that running 50ish Amps was outrageous and we need to swap to 12V architecture to get that down to a reasonable 25ish.
Today, they think that running 240~ Amps is outrageous and we need to swap to 48V to get the Amps down to a reasonable 60~ Amps…
Even though every home already has a million things that run on 120V and they could have future proofed it for the next 10 years and gotten the Amps down under 25~ with off the shelf components for less effort.
Am I missing something here?
AC vs DC and that most of the world uses 230VAC.
48V means you can have a louder stereo system, cheaper! Below the 50V limit for shocks, but all the cheap electronics are designed for 12V. ISO21780