00:00 Download the Conscious Spending Plan so you can use your money GUILT-FREE: iwt.com/csp-youtube Please remember: These are real people who had the courage to come on my podcast and ask for help. Would you be willing to come on this podcast and share every detail of your financial life? Feel free to leave comments based on what you think, but remember that we are here to help in a supportive way, not to demean and criticize.
She wants a BABY, but unfortunately her hubby is in a PhD program and so she feels uncertain how she will have the support she needs. I think she has a rough road ahead.
I do not appreciate the ganging up on the responsible wife in this episode. The only reason her husband can take chances and be carefree about the money is because SHE has picked up the burden of being responsible and planning for their future. Her concerns all sound valid to me. They will need a new car. Tech is volatile. Lead paint needs to be addressed before kids. I’m pissed off at her husband for her. By putting themselves in this position, they need to delay her dreams and goals. He can chase Maslow’s hierarchy of needs’ top tier (self-actualization) while she’s taking care of all the bottom tiers. This is not fair.
Agree. He’s not thinking like a husband. He’s thinking like a single guy with a girlfriend. She wants to be a mom, but he’s not excited about being a dad. He’s just going along with having a baby, because “she gets her thing and I get mine.” A man who doesn’t want kids and is just going along isn’t a good father. They should not have a child together.
I understand that Dillon wants to be supported, but what about Carrie’s dreams / well being? She feels financially insecure, due to her upbringing and volatile career. She wants to have a baby soon and that will further strain finances. But Dillon just goes off and nukes his income FOR YEARS to follow his passion. He got everything he wanted, she got nothing, AND she was left with the extra stress while Dillon’s lifestyle is subsidized. Doesn’t feel fair.
totally agree. i think people are making assumptions without listening to the video. he made a lot of selfish choices that she has to deal with, he's not preparing or thinking about their future when she is, she has not been treated fairly at all in this relationship.
Interesting take. I guarantee that if he had not gone for the PHD and she decided to have a baby, he would resent her beyond belief. It’s bad enough she resents him now, but for the wrong reasons.
So much of the focus was on Carrie not feeling comfortable spending money. However, Dillon got a pass for unilaterally deciding he was quitting work to go to school. Now he's frustrated at his wife for not wanting to fund a vacation.
I’d agree more if Carrie had any idea what she DID want to fund. No is a complete sentence at a hierarchical work but not in a marital relationship. If she said, Dylan I don’t want to pay for the Japan Trip, right now I’d rather spend it on myself right now going to Pilates 4 days a week for my mental health, no doubt Dylan would have been happy with it.
@ Carrie mentioned plenty of things that she wanted to do with her money. She wants to replace the windows with ones that don't have lead paint. She wants to upgrade their home's insulation. She wants to replace their old car before it dies. And yes, she wants to go to Pilates classes. Not sure why these aren't enough for you?
He is working. A PhD is a full time research job. He is making a very good stipend for a graduate student so he's probably in a very lucrative field (i.e a STEM degree). You're putting in over 40 hours a week and aren't sitting there taking classes. It's more like an apprenticeship compared to undergraduate studies.
This husband comes off as being entirely selfish and self-centered. I cannot believe that he threw out that he didn’t want to be bothered with household stuff for four days out of a week. No. You do not get to just disassociate from being a grown adult for more than half of the week. If he was single - he’d be cooking and cleaning let alone working to fund his educational dreams. He is entirely ungrateful for the fact that she funds his entire life just so he can do what he wants. Not to mention they want to have kids while he’s still in his PhD program. So she’ll get to continue funding their lives and managing the household while he gets to be allowed to funnel all of his energies into his own dream. Absolutely not unless she agreed to that BEFORE he decided to stop being an equal partner without her input.
I disagree. He’s been carrying the entire burden of cooking and cleaning, not because he doesn’t work as much, because he clearly does, but because he doesn’t *earn* as much. And what’s more, she’s been using abusive language and tactics around this. If the roles were reversed there would be an outcry. Asking for 4 days to study is entirely reasonable and will balance things out. His studies will lead to a higher paying job, one that at least matches hers, which will benefit them both in the long run. It doesn’t mean it will all fall on her, it means they both will equally contribute to the household a few days a week, and once a week they can get a cleaner and go out to eat. In other words, a healthier, more respectful dynamic and lifestyle.
I am not loving the approach in this episode. I empathize with Carrie and her concerns. I almost feel like this episode shames her. Yes, she has opportunities to work on her scarcity mindset. The constant worry doesn't serve her. But I can understand some of her very valid concerns of not having enough savings while she is the primary earner. So many YOU statements to Carrie. I wish we could have approached it with more compassion.
As someone in academia, I will be very suprised if he will outearn her or even come close to the number he cited once he is done. A phd is not a guarantee for a higher income. Especially if you count in the years he lost on income inbetween. Wild takes all around.
It does annoy me a bit that Ramit just takes people's word for it on these things. It's not realistic to make $500k with a PHD in CS. Mid $100s does seem realistic though, but it also wouldn't be hard to get that number after 6yoe in CS starting with a bachelor's and you'd be making 80-100k in the meantime.
@@CocoLicious yeah, I caught that, too. He's spending six years and idk how much money, and the minimum he'll be able to earn is 100K? Wasn't he already earning more than that? What was even the point?
I usually don't comment on videos, but Dillon is beyond frustrating to me and by reading the comments, it seems a lot of people are on his side. I don't get it. Dillon chose to take a pay cut from his 6 figures consulting career and to put all of the financial burden on his wife. He admits that he does not take care of the finances, and yet continues to same the lifestyle as he did before. Japan is clearly not her priority. All her concerns sounds like a woman preparing for her kids and making sure that she can afford that said kids for the next 3 years where Dillon will still be making a low income. Bringing Dillon on this show was beyond manipulative, because the premise here is to live your rich life now. He is just applying more pressure to get his way at her expense
It would make perfect sense for them to sit down together, project out what parenthood might cost over the next few years, and make some ambitious savings goals to hit those targets. It'd even make sense to talk about what their finances would look like if Dillion quit his PhD program and went and found a job to support his growing family. It'd make for a great episode, and a lot of people would be really interested to hear that type of conversation. But neither Carrie nor Dillion asked for that. Carrie certainly didn't ask Ramit to provide her with more reasons to stress about money and finances. This show isn't about picking a side; it's about helping the couple.
It's a hard conversation, women had to play a supporting role to breadwinning men, for generations. When the tables are turned, men usually see us as cash cows only and deprive us of emotional/psychological support. I don't think he will make a good dad, his idea of bonding is a trip, bonding can occur at no cost, using emotional skills and experience.
I completely agree. He literally made a decision without really getting her approval, kinda forced her to go along with his decision, and now is being a victim. I think Ramit’s patience is a skill and blessing, however, I think sometimes he overlooks what drives people’s decisions. He’s good at identifying the patterns, but struggles seeing how some things can be detrimental to the entire relationship. Felt that way about the conversation last week too.
This whole thing is that as soon as he made that decision to quit work and go after his phd without sitting down and agreeing on it together, left her feeling like she can’t trust him. What else will he do to jeopardize their financial future? He needs to regain her trust.
Who is he to need to justify his dreams? Ok he gives her a warning and what, she’s going to say no? Then it would really show her true colors. Once he is done his potential to earn will exceed hers once he gets in the mid-level, C-suite management. Too short term thinking on her end
Ran to the comments after 30 minutes. Carrie had her realization that she was acting similarly to her father withholding funds, but let’s think a layer deeper. Dillon basically just told his wife he was pursuing a PHD and that she needs to pay up and support him. This PHD is going to take six years. Let’s assume that 1) Carrie does not lose her job 2) Dillon gets a well paying job the moment he graduates. Does that mean that Carrie is waiting until her mid 30s to try for her first baby? It seems like she really wants to be a mother. Did Dillon even talk to her about that or did he just steamroll her? It seems like it would be tough for her to have a child during those six years of his program since she needs to bring home the higher income. In my nonprofessional, random internet stranger opinion, it seems like Dillon became the father figure who is withholding something from her. In this case, support, understanding, and the gift of motherhood. It would be interesting to hear how they handled their day to day lives when they were making equal incomes to give insight into the dynamic.
I think he steamrolled her. I agree that his YOLO attitude triggers her anxiety, he's trivialising the long term impact of making such a large change. If he was doing well and on track, he wanted to change it out, then he shouldn't complain about a downgrade in lifestyle. I think it's also that he prioritises a trip as a way to bond, instead of loving on her as the priority.
I think this may be missing the fact that to have work-driven (ie. not a stipend) high incomes is not essential for them to have children. Their current combined income is good enough - maybe ramping up the savings for a bit after the Japan trip, but it's not like they are in a position of poverty in which a child could not be taken care of!
And they are in the usa, where there is no paid maternity leave, so if she would have a baby now then she would have to take a break in her job, and have 0 money, and he is studying, it is imporsible to be a full on parent and having phd at tge same time. So someone will have to take a break, or wait 6 years!
@@tatjanav9657that's where the savings part comes in, to cover for this type of cases. Yeah, maternity leave is too short and unpaid in the US, I was on paternity leave myself for 18 months to allow my wife to keep doing what she loves and I can't imagine having a few weeks/months and then just get a sitter
I’ve watched every episode since it’s been on TH-cam, do not comment often but this is a rare occasion where Ramit didn’t get this one right imo. She clearly wants to prioritise having children and he thought it was ok to cut his income by 80% just when they are coming into prime baby years. She will carry and have this baby and then what, she won’t want to go back to work, at least not FT / straight away but she might be forced to unless they start redirecting funds to a savings account specifically for this asap. Fixed costs might be 33% now but what are they if she isn’t working. I’m annoyed Ramit seemed really angry with her most of the episode but she couldn’t articulate these fears so he understood or he’d already decided she was the problem (which is again unusual) Do the trip to Japan if you want but seriously start saving for these children asap so you can enjoy those years with your little ones, otherwise she will rightly be very resentful if she can’t and I don’t see the marriage making it.
@@efraquilla hmm if it was a 1 or 2 year thing sure but 6 years is a very impactful amount of time especially at their age and children being the goal, temp or not.
So I agree that Ramit's perspective as a man and having no kids can sometimes limit his perspective and takes, but I actually think he was pretty spot on here. She already resents him, is chronically insecure about money and unable to prioritize self-care and couples connection time. These are exactly the problems that having kids will wildly exacerbate. If they don't address these issues now it's going to be some really painful years with little kids which they maybe can fight through with a lot of counseling but most likely will end in divorce and resentment on both ends. If she already resents him when they have tons of money and free time then she will resent him even more when she wants to scale back on work and be with the kids (if she wants that) and they are hustling from sunrise to sunset with diapers, snack, school, doctors visits, etc and barely have any time to rest, let alone connect as a couple mentally and physically.
This is the first time watching one of these episodes that I disagreed with the approach Ramit took. He is SO patient and truly takes time to understand where both parties are coming from to come up with a solution that can work for both of them; however - in this particular video he didn't consider the instability of a tech job + the instability of having a child for the first year. I have an 8 month old myself and we prepped! We had an emergency fund, saved up a "baby fund" to cover all the costs we predicted, and we have very stable careers which took off SO much stress. If I were the breadwinner and had a career field which is going through massive layoffs and my husband is more focused on a trip than a career, I would have major concerns. I think it would have been good to explore building a very large emergency fund to cover a potential job loss for Carrie and to investigate if Dillon would be willing to leave his PhD early to cover costs in addition to everything else discussed. Edited to add: I am really glad that Ramit addressed the gender roles in this though. It wasn't fair and super demeaning that she used the term of a housewife and intended it to be demeaning and it definitely wouldn't fly if the roles were reversed.
I agree that Ramit could have pushed the larger emergency fund harder, although he does mention in passing a few times such as when they discussed her constant fear of the car breaking down. However, I think he didn't focus on that because THEY ARE INVESTING OVER 50k annually!! Redirect that aggressive saving for just a month or 2 and they will have enough for a new car in full. Cashflow isn't the issue, she is additcted to cranking the investing meter up to a maximum, which she intentionally sacrifices a huge emergency fund for due to them being so young and compuond interest yadiyada.. This is primarily a mindset issue that I don't think would change based on how much money they have in the bank.
I think this conversation misses the big picture, which is that his goals do not even converge with hers. His vision is not to become a father and support her as a partner, but rather pursue his own path, at her cost. I feel bad for her and I think her anxiety is justified. I hope she doesn't get bullied into draining her finances on frivolous spending when her goal is to become a mom.
I think the tech layoffs are a bit overstated because they are all over the news, but for experienced developers with a good resume, the unemployment rate in tech is very low. For people fresh out of college it’s harder
Yes! One thing I don't see mentioned often enough is the physical toll being pregnant takes on a woman. Some have easier pregnancies and can be back to work no problem after maternity leave. Others though are incredibly sick or have a difficult labor. My sister spent much of her pregnancy tied to an IV. Some jobs are not friendly to mothers and sideline them after they get pregnant. There is a lot of shifting and tech right now and it wouldn't surprise me to see a company lay off a pregnant woman. It's illegal but impossible to prove if others are also getting the boot.
Carrie's rich life vision is not the same as Dillon's, that's the biggest issue. She married someone who did a 180 on their finances and that only benefits him (or his intellectual needs). She wants to be a mom, not to be frivolously spending on vacations. Also, you could go to Japan for a lot less, Dillon's entitlement over her money is just wild. Remember, they are only 1 year into this marriage, she does not need to fund someone else's expensive lifestyle when her needs aren't met. Of course she has anxiety because she is carrying their entire financial future. Dillon seems like a manipulative user, sorry for the strong language here. Carrie, run girl. Find yourself a partner who wants the same things as you and will not take financial advantage of you.
Carrie comes across as a very sweet and genuine person. I totally sympathize with the anxiety she is feeling based on what is happening in the real world. She also has the maturity and self-awareness to admit she has anxiety issues in general. Dillon probably did not understand all of this about her, but I bet he sure is getting more of it now. Seems like he may be at a crossroads. Will he turn the corner and become more supportive, or will he continue to grow more resultful of her anxiety? I hope he picks the 1st option and finds a healthy way to start a family with her. This is a team Dillon. This is not about you steamrolling to get only what you want. Do not put more than the fair share of work and family burden on her.
Not a fan of all the dumping on Carrie, in the comments and in the show itself. Dylan unilaterally chose to take an 80% pay cut, doesn't think he should have to sacrifice his lifestyle for it at all, doesn't think it's his job to think at all about the preparations they need to make to baby-proof their house...and yet the problem Ramit wants to focus on is that Carrie worries too much. I mean, I'm a worrier too, so I get it. But one big lesson I've learned in working on my anxiety is that sometimes the anxious brain is getting worked up over nothing, but sometimes it's identifying genuine problems, and the challenge is to tell the difference. Ramit's schtick is all about saying yes to fun things, so I'm not surprised that he had them brainstorm ways to afford the trip to Japan. But a better exercise might have been brainstorming ways to get the lead paint fixed sooner rather than later, so then they don't have to worry about it.
Not only this but the tech market is extremely unstable right now and companies keep doing layoffs so the competition if she does lose her job will be Stiff
@@calypso662 Absolutely this too. Ramit tends to assume that if someone is making $X, they'll continue making $X (or more) forever. But that's not necessarily the case, especially with tech jobs right now. Carrie feels like there's a big burden on her because there IS a big burden on her. It's not as bad as it could be, because their fixed costs are so low, but that doesn't mean her worries are unjustified.
I think you bring up some good points - she didn't exactly sign up for that at first, but they have decided to continue their relationship (even getting married while he was a student, if I understand their timeline correctly) so she had opportunities to get out if that was truly a deal breaker. Also, I think ramit focused on the Japan trip instead of fixing up the house because it's always going to be *something* with worriers (I know, I'm also a worried). And you can hear it when she talks, if it's not the house it's the car etc etc. there's always going to be some (school district for the kids, whatever) to worry about but she's letting that get in the way of living life and putting guilt on to her partner for making a choice she decided to accept.
She didn’t marry a PhD student though. She married someone in a similar tax bracket to her and then he chose to chase his dreams which then means her ability to spend is impacted. It isnatural that it would take her some time to adjust.
She never had an ability to spend. She didn't like spending on herself or on the two of them from the get go. She will regret not spending some money on herself when/if they will have a kid, since their couples time and money might end up being even less than it is now.
@@tannerdriscoll6699 that's the difference between you and her, I'm not co-signing on her behavior I'm just stating it without varnish. she sees him as a drag to her lifestyle because although she sets the parameters of their household spending, she resents him not making enough to go 50/50.
How did he figure that their current combined income would be sufficient, if she's the primary earner, but she's the one who would have to stop working due to pregnancy and postpartum recovery?🤔
This. On average a woman's income takes a 30% hit from pregnancy because of all the missed work, why do men never factor that in, Carrie has a good reason to be worried.
because he's not thinking at all about the future, he wants to justify his current fun without factoring in all the consequences of him quitting his job
This is the only episode that didn’t feel right from start to end & made Carrie look like a super bad person. I hope if Carrie reads the comments she sees the positive ones relating to her.
I agree. She seems like a rational adult who understands that money is finite and not guaranteed. Carrie isn't a "worrier" just because she is primarily responsible for the families short and long term financial goals. What I saw was that she is doing the boring financial part and is just looking for a strategy to make sure the family moves in a financially sound direction. Realistically, she would have been better served to have a plan for the best case scenario (baby, Japan, helping family) as well as a plan that would help them prepare for a layoff (which is an absolute possibility). I agree with Carrie; I wouldn't enjoy a trip to Japan if I had reason to believe that I might return and find out that my job doesn't exist.
After he just came and dropped the “I’m quitting working and going to get my PHD” b0mb I can see how she continued to have worry about their finances. She married a working partner, not a student but he decided to make the shift w/o her input. Glad she expressed it and he apologized. Wishing them well.
I'm in the tech industry and she's right to be worried about the future right now. He's also not come to terms with the trade off of doing the PhD. The trip seems to be his priority and not hers, but she's not able to say that to him now
Also if they’re thinking about a baby that is another huge stressor for the mom. How will pregnancy affect her job, can she afford to go on maternity leave, will her job be secured if she does? Also childcare is expensive so when she does return to work, she will be the one responsible for paying for that. They make good money but when it’s lopsided there are risks when making life changing decisions. I understand her overall unease, the fact that she’s the one who thought about replacing the lead windows and it didn’t even occur to him shows me that she has a lot of responsibility burden and has much to worry about.
I agree. They are both in an industry where they will both likely be laid off multiple times throughout their career, plus burn-out in tech is real. They should go to Japan now, but also build up that emergency fund and think about a future when one of both of them just can't keep up with the stress and rigor of employment in the tech jobs.
I agree that layoffs in tech are real. I'm going through one now. This arrangement works as long as she's working. If there is a layoff then I hope they are both prepared to put a pin in this plan. Japan isn't going anywhere. I can relate very much to them as my husband and I have a similar dynamic.
Did they decide as a team that the phd right now was the right thing to do and essentially putting kids off for 5+ years or potentially drain savings for having them? It doesn't sound like it. She is right to worry, it's not easy for women to be the breadwinners and also continue the career with kids. Tech is never the most stable industry. I think talking about the vacation was talking completely around the important points.
We don't know when they started thinking about kids, maybe it was after he started being a student. Either way they are investing too much in stocks and not saving enough in cash. A fat slug of cash would give them breathing room for a baby in a couple years.
I make well over $200K and I can tell you that when my husband and I have our twins last year, we have never felt more scared or anxious about money despite having saved for a baby fund and emergency fund. Kids change everything. Especially for someone working in an industry that is at high risk for layoffs (tech), she SHOULD be anxious about money when all they have in savings is $23K, there is LEAD paint, and they want to have kids. Yikes. I feel like because Ramit doesn't have kids, this is an area where he has a hard time fully understanding. Ramit's rich life is about traveling and convenience without kids, and I have noticed that most of his advice about kids or for parents (or future parents) in general comes off as not very sympathetic or understanding. I wonder if his tone and financial advice would change if he has kids one day.
The reality is that they have no kids. It’s not that they only have 23k in savings. They/she is overly investing their income instead of saving. They can have the money to get rid of the lead paint and go to Japan. If she’s smart enough to get the job in the first place, if she gets laid off, she will eventually get another. Also, bro could pause the PHD for them to work and stack before they have kids. Respectfully, yall/them make a lot of money. People don’t need to have kids to understand numbers. Especially the numbers they showed
Kids are expensive and her not working while he's in PhD phase will cut income a lot. But Ramit's point that the vacation isn't the issue, her worrier type, and the couple dynamic is unhealthy- that all stands. They need to get themselves sorted out before they get pregnant- to your point, being parents is emotional and financial burden. It will exacerbate all of these issues
pretty sure I saw you in the comments of another podcast saying that a couple with over a million in investments in their 30s didn't have that much money because they had kids, which makes me think there's a running theme here....kids are hard and expensive! I'm pretty terrified of them too! But there's a dollar amount where the anxiety becomes damaging. Might not be 200k, but what about 300-500k when he graduates in 2-3 years, and when they have so much in investments they can coast FIRE (which they are on pace for right now)?
People are seriously underestimating how much having kids costs. There's leave to give birth, burning ridiculous amounts of vacation time for all the appointments during pregnancy, the shift in priority from peak work performance to spending time with the kid. What if her dream is to quit and be a stay at home mom? He gets his dream phd and she foots the bill and no kids! What if the baby has health issues and needs to spend time in the nicu? He's telling her a vacation to Japan is more important than kids.
People are wrongly assuming that his income is going to go back up after he finishes his phd. He left his current job not because he didn't like the money, he left DESPITE the high salary because it wasn't enough of an intellectual challenge. Academics that are doing "difficult " research are not well paid because there is no immediate economic benefit in the work they do, his pursuit of intellectual stimulation is not the money maker may of y'all are assuming. And if he hopes to become a professor add another 4 years after he gets his phd as being a poorly paid post grad.
if you dont support your partner in their pursuit to be happy with their career ... then you are a poor partner, you dont care for their needs and therefore yall need to get divorce period
@@drwalka10 But the support needs to go both ways. Is Carrie happy in her career? (I don't think we know, because I don't think that topic ever came up.) What if she also wants to transition into a lower-paying but less stressful or more stimulating job, but she feels she can't do that now because Dillon already did?
When Ramit asked him what their priority is, he said travelling, and some other things like saving for pension, but he didn't mention kids at all. He does not see himself as a father in a nearest future.
For real! This "we HAVE to rebuild the entire house to make it baby safe" mentality sounds exhausting. You really DON'T need new windows to have a kid, and it sounds like she is making any excuse to delay having them. Also, a trip to Japan isn't $15k, my wife and I just went for 11 days and it was MAX $8k and we hit 3 cities.
I think she used the word “stingy” to describe her dad. Sounds more like selfish. It’s sad to me that she is even aware her parents were disputing over child support.
Nothing is guaranteed in life, including two six figure salaries. Her worries are valid. He could also blindside her by not wanting to have kids right away once he finishes his phD, or a number of other unforeseen circumstances could happen including infertility or job loss. My advice to her is to make sure she is taking care of herself and focusing on her dreams and passions because it seems like he’s only focused on his.
I totally get Carrie's worries. I went through a layoff and the competition was brutal and completely different than a few years ago. There are some big economic factors coming that could very well make it worse. I hope they prioritize an emergency fund. Also, I don't think he's living in reality. He wants it all without sacrifice. He totally said his dream is to have FOUR days each week without cooking and cleaning. Does he really want a family or does he just want a support system? Who's paying for that, dude? Carrie's already covering the mortgage. One thing I don't see mentioned often enough is the physical toll being pregnant takes on a woman. Some have easier pregnancies and can be back to work no problem after maternity leave. Others though are incredibly sick or have a difficult labor. My sister spent much of her pregnancy tied to an IV. Some jobs are not friendly to mothers and sideline them after they get pregnant. There is a lot of shifting in tech right now and I've seen companies lay off pregnant women. It's illegal if that's the reason but impossible to prove if others are also getting the boot.
If I were Carrie, I would've weaponized my anxiety and invested all of my income in excess of 40k (or whatever the stipend is), and lived more frugally until my partner was out of school. The PhD is a long-term play. Could've doubled down. 200k sounds like a lot of money, but in volatile tech and with the cost of living as high as it is, you'd be surprised by how quickly it evaporates.
I like it. "Let's BOTH live on ramen for six years, and after you graduate, if this super-high-paying job really comes through, we can take all the trips to Japan that you want."
Agreed. It's easy to say "let's spend a bunch of money on trips" when you're not bringing in any money now or the near future. Carrie is thinking about the future, Dillon is only thinking about himself, which seems typical in their relationship based on how he handled the PhD.
@@andreeab5718 Agreed, he comes off a little cake-and-eat-it-too by expecting his spouse to fund a ~20 thousand dollar trip to Japan while making only 40k a year, of his own volition. If they doubled down (double down'd?), once he graduates they'd be millionaires with a 500k household income and no bad debt. Great financial foundation for their kids and future vacations.
I completely understand Carrie side here. First time I disagree with Ramit. The problem started because Dillon made a decision himself and added on Carrie's back a backpack that is not hers. In my opinion, he should have started the PHD only if she had also expressed she was happy with the decision, but she was taken by surprise and was not happy. This is extremely concerning and Carrie should definitely re-consider asking Dillon to stop his PHD. It feels like he assumed that she would have to pay more and feels entitled of her money. This doesn't seem right! 🤔
The implication that her mom was bad at saving bothered me when it sounds like the dad was financially abusive and screwed his ex-wife over - plus gave his daughter crippling anxiety. Hell of a guy.
For them I would say 1. Use the 2500 they spend a month on home improvements and fix the lead paint 2. Once it is fixed, save some extra money for a new car. Lets say $10,000 in total 3. Then save the 15,000 for the Japan trip. They could also do all 3 things simultaneously. But Carrie has too much burden and needs to offload it to Dylan. He should help manage the money more. Ramit has told this to many couples. Sharing the mental load of paying bills will help ease some of her worries.
Good plan. They can tackle things one at a time. Carrie worries too much, Dylan acts like everything is sunshine and buttercups. They are better off having a plan handling the different worries they have. Tackle the paint, then the funds for a car, then smaller vacation say $6-8k for Japan then pay off the house sooner to reduce risks of layoffs. Stack up some emergency funds for baby too. Dylan is clearly just thinking for the now and not helping his wife share the burden. Being the lower earner spouse, he should be the one shouldering most of the housework. Nevertheless, Carrie should not be calling him derogatory names.
I hadn't thought about this approach. Very concise and very achievable. Good observation too that she just needs to take off some of the mental burden of carrying the finances.
I feel bad for them both. She didn’t start the relationship with her partner earning so little. He decided he wanted to pursue his dreams, but banked on his partner stepping up and covering most of everything. Also fine if you’re in a partnership but this can never be assumed, it needs to be discussed properly so each person fully understands what a change like that will mean financially and in reality. There needs to be a joint plan and timeline that both agree to. Nothing should be assumed, even if in the long run it makes sense for the partnership. She probably chose him as a partner as she knew he needed someone who was capable of earning a lot of money and he fit that role, until he decided he didn’t. So even though she’s said some terrible things to him which can’t be condoned, I don’t think it’s all on her. She hasn’t ended up with the partner she thought she would. Even if this is just a dip, it’s still a big change. But a manageable one, if they had been able to discuss things in depth and as a team. Good luck to them both.
It’s probably the worst video I have seen from you, coming from someone who’ve followed you for a long time. I think Dillon is a very impulsive, irresponsible, and selfish guy who expects his wife to cover him, so he can freely enjoy his passions without taking on any consequences. Their relationship is like a mom having to take care of and make decisions for a grownup baby who will always demand for new toys and adventures. Her income is not guaranteed, and he has to learn how to navigate his current low income, which means no expensive trip until he makes more money. She is already covering their baby funds and most of their bills already. The least he could’ve done is contributing more to doing house chores and stop asking for things that he himself can’t not afford with his money
One thing that was completely missed was when the guy said that they had enough income between both of them to have kids and a family. That is not really the case. If she gets pregnant and has a baby she will probably want to stay home for a while at the very least and that would take her income out of the equation once maternity leave runs out. Him having such low income is forcing her to go back to work while her baby is a couple months old denying her ability to stay at home with the baby. Not say she has to but he is taking that option away from her by deciding to go into a PhD and get a huge pay cut.
If I have to guess, Carrie's employer(most big techs) offer a very generous maternity leave package to not have to actually take her income off the table(source, sibling used to work for bay area big tech)
@@Snackathon360 The last two people I know who took parental leave at my "big tech" company were gone after the next round of layoffs. Those "generous leave packages" are meaningless in at-will states.
As a mom of two also primary earner you NEED to do things for yourself trust me when you have kids you’ll miss when you actually had time to do those things
you highlighted wrong word. you should hilighted word yourself. since that is important. if they want to go to japan, they should go. but I understand that building nest egg for time after divorce is more important.
My ex-husband did something similar, and it’s the reason we are divorced. When a couple is considering a baby, money = safety on a primal level. For the husband to behave unpredictably, take away even her option of using maternity leave or God forbid, if the baby has a health or developmental concern where she needs to take extended time off, there is no safety net. His unilateral decision making is not okay in anyway shape or form and signals that he could do other things without her permission or knowledge. My guess is he has done other things that she wasn’t comfortable with small or big and this is just the most identifiable one. Does she want to go to Japan with him?
It sounds like she had dreams of being a stay at home mom while the kids are little or working part-time to raise her kids and now that dream has been shattered. She is approaching 30 so the clock is ticking and there is nothing she can do. Sounds like he is more interested in pursuing his career/dreams than having kids at the moment. She wants to save to have a stable environment for their kids. She is being very realistic and has seen first hand how hard it is to raise a child without support from a partner.
Her anxiety is valid- She wants to start a family and likely feels like time is ticking. Meanwhile he’s prioritizing his Ph.D for the next 7 years, over his wife and you bet over their future baby. That is the source of her anxiety in the marriage
@@uroneandonlyCPA not liking to think about money is not the same as not thinking about money at all. We only got a glimpse into their relationship, we can't extrapolate how they act on a larger scale/over a longer period.
I feel for Carrie. Baby is expensive. And on top of it tech industry is very volatile now. She can lose her job and childcare expense when she goes back to work is a lot too. What her husband does is very very unfair. Personally i think she deserves someone who is on the same page with her and respect her
@@yestothisi felt sorry for her. He' s getting all the things he want and has a nice life during it and she has to work. Hope he doesn' t dump her babyless in her mid 30s for a younger one after finishing his PHD.
She didn't sign up to pay his way thru a PhD, HE made that decision alone and now is surprise pikachu face she didnt like it. Granted she needs a therapist because she does not have a healthy relationship with money, but lets not pretend that is only her(or him lol)
@ I don't know dude, making a decision like quitting your job and cutting your income by over 50% seems like a conversation with your fucking wife. But what do I know, I only been divorced once lol
Worrying is her identity. It will take a lot for her to change. This is a personality trait, this propably leaks into other areas of her life. Hope he steps up to take some of the financial management pressure off of her. I wish them the best.
She did admit the anxiety spills over into non financial matters. She may just be "wired" for anxiety. Her early childhood experiences probably didn't help. I get where she's coming from Re the anxiety because I'm the same. Therapy and a lot of work outside of therapy helped me significantly. The anxiety is still there, it's my perspective that changed. I hope Carrie can reach a similar place.
Of course she worries when he makes bad financial decisions, his goals are not hers! He doesn't want to have a baby and save for her to be comfortable. This is a classic manboy scenario where, if he doesn't get things his way, she is automatically the villain.
I've been struck by so many couples on this podcast fully embracing a 50-50 financial split no matter what the income levels are. There's a need to make everything balance in the accounts so that everyone feels like it's "fair and equal." This is why people think a SAHM "doesn't work," yet if the mom works for a salary, is she paying the nanny nothing because she's now "not working"? A house-spouse is lesser because he's not pulling 6 figures, but the housekeeper is paid nothing for doing this non-work? I see couples like this one being so focused on financial equality, that they can't see that they are a team. Each person has a role to get the team moving forward; sometimes that's paid work, sometimes that's sweat or time work. I see this dynamic so often that I wonder if I'm out of step with reality and too much of an idealist. I'm not currently in a relationship, but I wouldn't want to be in a relationship that wasn't a team working toward similar goals and lifting each other up.
Bro/Sis I hate this. The guy just keeps saying "Carrie feels this way". I'm glad you're both open and had conversations about money, but I want to know how you feel dude. Let Carrie speak for her own feelings.I honestly don't know the guys name and only know the girls name because how often the name Carrie was said.
Ramit, this was disappointing. Women are more money insecure, which you know. And yet you didn’t call out his decision to do the PhD without a real convo. There is now an established fear that he will put himself above the unit. Yet you are railing on her for her anxiety in a unstable tech market.
agreed, unless they can value another person for themselves rather than treating them as a cost center/I can't believe I have to subsidize the living costs of my partner, they have no business having kids. anxiety is can be prudent, but using it as an excuse to demean another person, thats not a worry issue that is a values/compatibility issue.
I read that wives now make significantly more than their husbands in about 20 percent of marriages. Most of us did not grow up in this situation so there is some resentment. Women were trained to think of their husbands as the primary breadwinner. They want to be able to work less or not at all when they have children. Right now, I think they should enjoy the trip to Japan. It is much harder to engage in international travel when you have young children. I think marriages now seem more adversarial. It is my income and your income. Where is the we and ours? That seems to be the problem here not what they earn.
The last 50 years of greater gender equality, which now includes very high earning women is struggling against the tens of thousands of years of genetic code. Just look at dozens of past episodes where the woman earns more than the man and they both struggle with it.
Yea, men promoted the image that they should be the primary breadwinner and that women should have certain roles. This is probably why the abuse rate is higher in women in those groups.
Sorry but marriage, in many cases, has always been this way. As someone who has seen and grew up in a traditional marriage, my dad did plenty of the “ my money”, except my mom’s money was his too. It only seems more adversarial now bc the other side has a voice and is speaking up.
Men loved holding money over the heads of women. That's why the whole push to have your own bag came in. Also, it's not like men have realized 'oh, I'm making less, so I need to pick up more of the other responsibilities'. Instead, they neglect chores until the women give up and decide to file for divorce because their vows didn't include being mommy to a grown adult
Exactly! It is obvious she wants to prepare for their future kid. She needs to advocate for herself better and work on her communication skills. Seems like she lashes out when they argue about money and he used that to paint himself as the victim
@@patriciatrevant5741 It looks like a case of weaponized victimization on his side. He easily makes plans to spend the money that she earns, leaving very little room for her plans and wants. I hope she realizes that this person is not a great future father. They are a different stages in their lives. Carrie should run and find herself a suitable partner, while Dillon eats his ramen for 6 years.
She clearly stated in the video it was their (used "we" not _his_) multi-year goal to go to on a last hurrah trip prior to kids after Ramit asked who came up with the idea for a trip to Japan. She had every opportunity to state she did not want to go and if that is truly the case then she needs to be honest and say so. Not everyone can read her mind like you can.
Ramit explicitly asks her at 57:07 if she wants to go to Japan because she keeps circling back to home repairs and they have thought about the trip for four years. Ramit can see it's not a financial priority for her which is why he says it's not about Japan. It's the same reason she hasn't committed to $200/month in Pilates classes. They're playing small. Even the 15k wouldn't make or break them surviving her becoming pregnant. They, like everyone else, will have financial challenges, but they're both miserable with how things are.
@@sp4hybridized Don't you think she would feel differently about money if she wasn't carrying the entire financial burden? Also, they cannot afford their lifestyle if she needs to pause work and take care of a child. People tend to glorify the tech maternity benefits. IMO her anxiety is justified.
Just here to say we have the same amount of income and a kid. We also have a house built from 1980 and I promise you don’t need brand new windows to welcome a new baby. We have traveled with our son to 9 countries, some countries several times. We just did Japan with him (he’s 3) so please take the trip and dont think you won’t be able to travel after kids. ALSO, why is it demoralizing for men to have a woman that is the bread winner but not the other way around, let’s please stop with this double standards that hurt men and women, it doesn’t matter who makes more money (I’m also the high income earner) and my husband and I enjoy OUR money together!
There’s no problem with her earning more. There’s no problem with the overall salary. The problem is they got married making the same amount of $, and then he unilaterally changed their plans and opted to go back to school, and left Carrie to carry the load. That’s not what a partnership is.
@@aas55yeah I get that and agree but throughout the video even Ramit suggests the comments of her saying “I’m the bread winner” are hurtful and that’s what I disagree with; if it’s not hurtful when a man says I’m the bread winner it shouldn’t hurt the other way around.
This is VERY much hitting home for me. Looking back, I had the same mentality that Carrie has/had with my partner and it ended up leading to a divorce. Since then, I have learned my lesson and improved a ton. And trust me, life is SO much better not stressing about money as much. Please learn the lesson now so you don’t have to figure it out after you get divorced.
It doesnt. Ramit even suggested going closer to $10k. $1.5k each for tickets, plus likely stay at least 10 days in $$$ Japan given how far away it is, and you get to $10k quickly
I think Ramit missed on this one. Dylan bulldozed the decision to reduce his income - it sounds like she was all but forced to eventually agree. He mentioned he was a tech consultant. Assuming he made about $100k/year more, he essentially decided for the both of them to forfeit $600k early in their careers. The opportunity cost of that is huge. If they invested that money and let it sit for 30 years, at 7% return thats about $5 million. Besides being opposed to his schooling decision, she has no guarantee of seeing a return on the education investment. She funds all leisure for 6 years and pushes back having a family, and he gets educated. What if they divorce in 5 years? He gets to keep his high salary and she loses out on her personal financial and family goals. I think it would have helped them to do a post-nup in exchange for him lowering his salary so drastically.
this was not the right take, if she has any pregnancy problems or postpartum problems and they loose her income they DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH. and while I ofc wish her a pleasant pregnancy and delivery and no pp depression, that is not always the case, they gotta plan for that and he needs to get his ass into gear, also id love to see which positions he would be elegible for with a phd that would make up for all this years of lost income, seems like hail mary plan on his part. even if he does land the job, he might not be happy if what he likes is studying and not working, hell just teach or study something else, this is not the time for unilateral decision for his sake, if he had any character he would do what is right for their kids and his wife even if he didnt like it in the moment
His plan works if he finishes the phd and gets the pay he expects but if she loses a job to kid/layoff they will have a significant setback. If he could reassure her he'd get a better job in that setback instead of idk how long phd track she'd probably feel better.
I wish them both the very best, but this is MUCH MORE than a financial issue. I hope they work out their true issues because this is not headed down a healthy path.
Huge props to these two for being able to have this discussion so honestly and openly while still being able to listen and receive what the other was saying. It’s so easy to get defensive and play the blame game. Good on those two
As someone with a PhD, he is too confident in graduating in 6 years, especially if he is raising kids while doing the program. Also he should have a good idea of exactly what he wants to do once he has a PhD. Only 10% go into a academic position, assuming employment after graduation is bold, especially when in many cases he would now be over qualified for many jobs.
Damn… I feel for her :( but also this guy.. he’s def not a bum, consultant turned PhD student… he’ll be a partner one day and they’ll be fine. Hope they go to Japan :)
Why do you feel for her? This would be the most normal marriage in the world and nobody would bat an eye if their gender roles were reversed! There’s nothing to feel for her…
She seemed to resolve that quickly. Being part of a team means making decisions ( major) as a team. Him strong-arming her into his PHD and not appreciating the person who's covering the cost shows that he wasn't on the team. They probably need to see a therapist prior to having a baby , so they can continue that "equality" thing.
I wish Ramit took a different approach to this. I feel I find myself in a similar situation where I make 3x my boyfriend’s income. I am a very giving person and thought I didn’t care about the income disparity because I planned to marry this person. That was until I started to feel like I was footing the bill/financially supporting my boyfriend of 1 years passion. Which I would be happy to do.. except that I don’t support his passion - becoming a pro poker player. I feel my high income almost holds him back and he doesn’t put forth effort in finding a career for himself. He’s currently working a $15/hour job while playing poker on his time off…
I relate so much with Carrie especially about seeing my mom struggle and never wanting to be in the same situation. I personally think they should wait until Dylan finishes school to have children to prevent burnout and lifestyle reduction.
Once you get married, it's not his money / her money - it's the families resources to be allocated effectively. This becomes very apparent when you have children, and it doesn't make things easier. (ps, having children is the best thing in the world)
She shouldn't call him a housewife, but he should definitely be doing the bulk of the housework and thankful that his partner is able to carry the load while he pursues his dreams.I do applaud her for seeking counseling to address her anxiety and about the income disparity. It's good that they are in couples counseling as many of these issues seem to be fixable.
Why should shouldn't they split household chores? Is she working much longer hours than him? I am not that far into this episode, but this would be the only fair reason for him to be taking on more chores than her.
So when he has a higher income than her after getting his phd, should she start to do all the housework even though they’re working the same hours? He’s not an unemployed house husband, he’s a full time student.
@@laura-vw9ly doesn't she make about 200k? He said after his PhD he should be making 150-200k. So at best, he'll be making the same amount as her. He's an unemployed full-time student whose wife is subsidizing his dream.
Dillon is doing a PhD, not sitting on his ass playing videogames. Doing a PhD is like working 2 full time jobs plus studying. I know as I've done my PhD and PostDoc in science and my wife has a MSc. You're pulling 80 hr/wk in the lab AND you have to constantly read cutting edge research to stay up to date on your own time, not to mention writing papers for publication. I would read/write on the bus ride to the lab, do experiments all day in the lab, read/write on the bus back home, then head out after dinner to the library/cafe to keep working. All that and I was making a stipend of $18k/year! That being said, I understood that grad school involved financial sacrifice. Both my wife and I were in grad school simultaneously making $36k/yr combined. We didn't have a car, didn't take vacation, didn't buy anything, lived off free food from suppliers, moved in with parents to save on rent etc. The only time off we got were going to conferences that were paid by the lab (and those were awesome!). After my wife graduated and starting making real money, we continued to be frugal until I finished my program and landed my job. Embrace the life of a poor grad student. My supervisor always said "you should be living and breathing this stuff every moment of your life, even in your dreams." You shouldnt' have time to think about spending money.
I really feel for Carrie. i get some commenters criticizing her, but as someone who has struggled with anxiety as a guy and felt improvement through therapy from it, im glad she's spending the money on herself, it was one of the ways I felt meaningful release from crippling fear, which I don't think anyone can judge her for unless they've felt it themselves. she's scared, plain and simple. if she was on her own, she'd be good, but it is important to acknowledge that despite the protective function of acting on feeling scared, she's chosen to have a partner and it's not right to deny the effect it has on them, even if it's subconscious and not intentionally harming. spending on herself is giving her meaningful reasons to feel alive and if that slowly inches her closer to understanding that her connection and confidence in herself and her partner important and worth risking trust, then I hope they keep trying!
Women tend not to feel comfortable being responsible for being the bread winner in the relationship with the family finances dependent on them, especially if his earnings are not enough to support the family. If he earned more, even if she out earns him, she would probably feel more comfortable in the situation. Big picture, school will one day end and his earnings will increase, it's a temporary situation.
How would you know how women feel? The people who show up on this channel are not a representative sample. Also, who guaranteed he'd get a job after over half a decade without one? You can't count on that being a certainty
if you're a woman who wants to have kids, then it makes sense to not feel comfortable being the bread winner. your life plans will directly reduce your income by a lot when you're pregnant/after birth which he is completely ignoring i guess. her stance makes total sense.
@@litapd311 Exactly. People have an expectation of pregnancy, childbirth and early motherhood being a cakewalk. Women commonly lose teeth while pregnant as the formation of a foetus's bones leeches calcium from the expectant mother. Some women lose the ability to think clearly because the brain re-wires to focus on the baby's survival. This is a very precarious position if she is the breadwinner, doubly so if the mother is partnered with someone who is careless enough to undertake a PhD knowing his wife will support him. He gets to be stress free, but usually Ramit asks the person coasting how they would manage the finances if the worrying spouse died. That usually gets them to start reframing the "worrier" as the person who has your back (although this guy was convinced in his ability to start thinking about money without previously demonstrating that ability)
Why is Ramit demonizing saving and investing? They are not millionaires like Ramit. In the financial journey, they are in the typical hyper accumulation phase. Their mortgage is still a big part of the house, and they don't have much non-retirement savings. The 15% savings rule that Ramit gives is not the best for people starting out. They are young and if they save more now they will have it easier later. I don't understand why a trip to Japan would cost $15K. I went to Japan twice this year, and it's really cheap right now. Airfare was less than $1K roundtrip (can be as low as $600 depending on where they live), and it's not hard to find a hotel that costs $100/night. Food cost is pretty low in Japan as well. If they squeeze a bit, they could budget something like $2K (airfare) + $1.5K (hotel) + $1K (food) + $500 (miscellaneous) = $5K total for a two-week trip. That's an amount they can easily save in a month. I think Carrie is carrying the burden of managing money and Dillon just doesn't care really because Carrie will take care of it. He is not making enough to have any impact in their financial situation, and he does not help managing expenses either, and that's why Carrie is having a lot of anxiety as Dillon seems unreliable. If Dillion had been more proactive in helping Carrie manage money, maybe Carrie will be less anxious. Dillion wants to go to Japan and it will be great if he can come up with a budget and show it's really not that expensive.
I'd be really tempted to buy a newer house in a newer neighborhood if you're really worried about lead paint. Anecdotally, I've heard of soil around an older house being contaminated with lead, so it's not just the house itself that's a problem. Replacing all of the windows is going to be insanely expensive. That said, I spent years 0-4 (peak paint-eating years) in a really old farm house that was probably chock-full of lead and I turned out fine.
This video made me realize that feelings definitely are real, even though they may have less basis in reality. We're a dual physician couple, and when my wife cut down to part time, I felt like it was unfair that I had to carry more of the load. The feeling of fairness and unfairness is real, even though the numbers don't really point to a logical concern.
I'm also in dual physician household and reading your story I think "why does my partner get to work part time, and I don't get to go part time too? Instead I'm still working full time so we still have good money!" But my partner and I make similar amounts in our specialties. If one of us was doing more of the childcare work or our incomes were very different at baseline though it would feel different I think.
I feel like the critique of Carries comments were a bit like a lecture/chastisement. When we've seen the reverse its been about each partner wanting to feel like the "contribute" to the relationship. The approach could have been due to things we didnt see in the episode during their conversation or bc the main issue stated for coming on the show was her approach. I totally agree people treat their partner with respect so im not sure what the "proper" response is.... just struck me as a bit more harsh than I've seen on this show.
@@HelloWorld-hb7yt you can enjoy life without spending $30 a day on eating out lol. Plus cooking at home and having dinner together with your partner is good for your relationship
As someone who spends 16-20 hours and $400 a month meal prepping for a 2 people household, if I made $200k, I would outsource food prep too. Her time and energy is worth more than the cost savings.
He doesn't seem the most responsible person with money. I believe that's the reason she can't relax if she wants kids. Pregnancy is so unpredictable that she thinks she can not afford to have a difficult pregnancy and he's more worried about Japan.
I hope Carrie truly realizes how draining it is to deal with someone who's basically banging their head against an imaginary wall constantly, complaining how much it hurts. Yet when you point out the wall isn't real, they say "yeah, but it FEELS real!!!" You can't really work with someone like that.
Carrie seems aware of the anxiety she feels. It's absolutely her responsibility to help herself with that. Dillon does seem empathetic, but it's not on him to "fix her."
The tech industry is precarious. She really could get fired. They're trying to lower labor costs. There's huge competition for tech jobs and AI is throwing a wrench into things. She could be out of work for 2 years. So, how is her anxiety unjustified? If her company dumps her, he won't be able to keep the boat afloat.
@@dustymuralif her anxiety is justified, then if that situation comes to pass, and for their sake I hope it doesn't happen, the she better be ready to eat alot of crow and tolerate being treated like lesser in their relationship.
I don't disagree, but I think in case she's feeling that her job is in jeopardy, she should be more clear that the plan needs to be save save save and no, we can't afford to go to Japan regardless of how nice the numbers look on paper. Circling back to the anxieties and rumination without making a plan that alleviates them would be absolutely exhausting to deal with for everyone. The churn is not productive even if it is triggered by realistic scenarios.
This episode felt different in tone. There seemed to be a bit more of telling them how they should feel vs them coming to that realization organically. Also, her fear of not having enough is justified if she were to get pregnant before the end of his PhD program. But the amount she was saving was was more than absolutely necessary...
I say this as a parent of 2 school aged boys. There is always going to be some house repair to do. It just is. It doesn't make you a bad mom. Do they need to have a huge emergency fund if she's in tech? yeah, probably. But the Japan trip... You can travel with kids. I do. It's personal preference. So whether they take the trip before or after kids is kinda moot. But if she is having issues thinking she can't afford it, how is she going to be when she's got a kid in daycare ($20000/yr)? and then depending on the demands on her company, what if she ends up having to pay before care, day care, and after care??
Carrie has it right….be concerned, especially about tech jobs at the moment. Dillon if you want to go to Japan that much how about you pay the majority of the cost hmmm….nope I bet Carrie would end up coughing up the most, and that will stress her out even more. Sorry Ramit, I love you, but you ganged up on her with Dillon on this one and got it wrong…what kind of comment is “ making her partner suffer” what…..cos she won’t pay for Japan, she’s clearly not comfortable with it.
He wants her to feel relaxed about money but makes a fraction of what she does? What is he doing to make her able to feel less relaxed? Sounds like nothing, considering that he wants to spend HER money to take unnecessary trips (they could take a smaller, way less expensive trip). And if she’s making so much more, he should be making up for it some other way. What does the domestic labor split look like? Men who make significantly more than their partners expect them to do all the domestic labor, but when it’s flipped, men don’t think they should be doing more in the house. 🤔I think he needs to save for the trip himself if he really wants to go, or wait until he’s done with his PhD and making money again. It’s also so crazy to me that he’s so comfortable spending HER money but she’s afraid to even spend $50 on a workout class for herself. He keeps saying “we can afford this trip”. No, SHE can afford this trip. In what world can someone bringing in $3k a month afford a 15k international trip just because they want to go?
@@Pozoe12This is my life 😢 My husband spends like our money is unlimited. He keeps talking abt building a 40’X80’ shed. He wants someplace to putter. 🤯
I'm only an hour in, so I might update my opinion, but I feel way too much attention was placed on Carrie's anxiety around money. She has legitimate concerns. She works in a sector that is prone to layoffs. She wants to be a mother. They need to replace lead paint windows before having a baby. (Which will cost a LOT.) Will she leave work for a few months? A few years? Child care is super expensive. He will be in school another 3-4 years. Is that how long she wants to wait? I don't know where the 150K minimum and 500K maximum salary comes from, but most people with a PhD I know don't even make 150K. Their car is super old. I doubt they will feel comfortable with an unreliable vehicle when a baby arrives. That's going to put their fixed costs up, or deplete their savings. (Actually they won't have much savings left after paying for all those new windows anyway!). I guess my point is, this was a very skewed conversation. They can afford a trip to Japan, but it will set other things back. Sounds to me that Carrie wants to go on a trip, but her priority is sorting out the issue with windows, car, etc. first.
The issue might be that she resents having to delay having kids. One of them will have to cut back hours. She might not want to wait 5 more years to start a family. She will be 34 when he’s done. If she wants more than one this pushes her into a higher risk category. It may not be a dealbreaker but should be at least discussed.
Ramit and Staff did a great job selecting this couple for the show. They are in the position to learn from his teachings. However, I would add that they should discuss their PRIORITIES and make purchase decisions in the same order as their priorities. For example, the lead paint is a higher priority than the trip to Japan. They can’t do both at the same time. So probably they should take care of the windows FIRST and delay the trip to Japan. If Ramit is trying to convince her that having 6 months of emergency fund is just a needless worry and the trip to Japan is a higher worry, then something has gone wrong. I think Ramit was trying to say she should feel free to spend after she has taken care of her priorities. And she is saying that she agrees, and her too priorities are not taken care of yet. They eat out plenty and have a nice place to live, so I don’t think she has a serious “inability to spend”. She has a hesitation to spend when she has Top Priority concerns like big emergency fund and safety for kid taken care of. By the way this is a big reason why so many couples are not having kids. They make almost 250k/year and the jobs/income/ financial requirements to live in safe place for a kid are tough even for them.
There is a mental load with being the major primary income provider. Worrying: If this, then that. If a car is old, then plan for it to need fixing and possible replacement. When it happens, you’ve pre-decided what to doin advance and have a car fund ready to go. When Dillion graduates with his PhD, then go to Japan.
As long as it's not flaking off and you don't let your kid gnaw on the windowsill, it's not a big deal. I grew up in an old house, and my parents painted latex paint over the lead paint. It's only an issue when you sand the paint.
@@melodicdeathgrlyou're exactly right, the remediations to lead paint have multiple options and any house prior to 1976 has a lead paint disclosure. lead paint has the potential to be a boy who cried wolf that attribute to fear mongering by renovators or realtors looking to push a sale.
I'm so happy for this couple!!!! They had moments of realization!!!!!!! I love seeing women become more generous and comfortable with that!! That being said, him taking on a Phd program should have been discussed WAY more it seems. I also want to add, I think Ramit should get more informed about child related costs so that he can be able to help parents and future parents a little better. He will learn so much and be surprised!!! Childcare costs, birth costs, night nurses, schooling costs, extra activities etc, all ranges within. Nothing to make people anxious, just to get more realistic. New parents need to get real about these numbers. I believe he will also understand much better that women don't just "take time off" for a few months and most of them need to go back to work pretty soon to maintain their income and careers. Anyways, as always, loved the episode!!!
I don't entertain watching an episode when a high-earning wife is being ganged upon - thank you guys for the comment and saving me from unneeded frustration.
Pregnancy and childbirth can be devastating on a woman's health. Women die from it everyday. Relationships where cgildren are born will never be equal because men will never carry that burden. I really hope she thinks twice about having children with him until they are on the same page. Bringing children into this now isnt a good idea. Or they need to cut their losses and find a different partner. Income for them both can go up or down out throughout the years.
Exactly. It seems like these days there isn't enough acknowledgment of the physical and emotional toll of being pregnant, giving birth, postpartum, nursing etc takes on a woman. Research has also shown how important the bonding between the mother and baby in the first 3 years is for the baby's emotional development (compared to outsourcing child care at that age). The husband here doesn't seem to know anything about this and is constraining the wife to go back to work before she and the baby may be ready to. What do they do financially if she wants to take 1-3 years off? Cost of childcare which is thousands? Saving for private school or whatever?
This is an episode that could've used a woman's perspective. I don't have kids and even I'm like, "Do you not understand the pressure of being the primary bread winner in a turbulent economy and carrying a child that will cut your ability to work?" A lot of companies look for reasons to cut new mothers.
I'm just 13 minutes in and can't stop thinking: If you are stressed about your income vanishing, why not pay of the house? Yeah... Interest in stock market might be higher than what their interest is, but reducing that level of stress might be worth giving up on a couple of thousands... They do have the money to pay it of (if the investments are not totally illiquid like stock options, that have a holding period)
Given that she is trying to optimize her money, I think she would dread every day that she made the wrong/less optimal financial decision. Not to mention the huge tax implications
@@grant30152 Fair point. That is when people do not factor in what stress does to your health. Especially US citizens should factor that in. Your medical system is so expensive!
How would paying off the house help things? If your income actually vanishes, you're far better off if you have a mortgage plus a substantial nest egg (which you can draw down to keep yourself afloat until you get your next job) than if you have no mortgage and no nest egg (but plenty of other expenses, like food and transportation and property taxes).
@ paying it off immediately means, you do not need as big of a emergency fund and it fills up rapidly. She works in tech. She wouldn't be out of a job for long.
00:00 Download the Conscious Spending Plan so you can use your money GUILT-FREE: iwt.com/csp-youtube
Please remember: These are real people who had the courage to come on my podcast and ask for help. Would you be willing to come on this podcast and share every detail of your financial life? Feel free to leave comments based on what you think, but remember that we are here to help in a supportive way, not to demean and criticize.
She wants a BABY, but unfortunately her hubby is in a PhD program and so she feels uncertain how she will have the support she needs. I think she has a rough road ahead.
I do not appreciate the ganging up on the responsible wife in this episode. The only reason her husband can take chances and be carefree about the money is because SHE has picked up the burden of being responsible and planning for their future. Her concerns all sound valid to me. They will need a new car. Tech is volatile. Lead paint needs to be addressed before kids. I’m pissed off at her husband for her. By putting themselves in this position, they need to delay her dreams and goals. He can chase Maslow’s hierarchy of needs’ top tier (self-actualization) while she’s taking care of all the bottom tiers. This is not fair.
Agree. He’s not thinking like a husband. He’s thinking like a single guy with a girlfriend. She wants to be a mom, but he’s not excited about being a dad. He’s just going along with having a baby, because “she gets her thing and I get mine.” A man who doesn’t want kids and is just going along isn’t a good father. They should not have a child together.
Wow, well said.
Yes, 100% agree!!
I understand that Dillon wants to be supported, but what about Carrie’s dreams / well being? She feels financially insecure, due to her upbringing and volatile career. She wants to have a baby soon and that will further strain finances. But Dillon just goes off and nukes his income FOR YEARS to follow his passion. He got everything he wanted, she got nothing, AND she was left with the extra stress while Dillon’s lifestyle is subsidized. Doesn’t feel fair.
totally agree. i think people are making assumptions without listening to the video. he made a lot of selfish choices that she has to deal with, he's not preparing or thinking about their future when she is, she has not been treated fairly at all in this relationship.
Finally someone who gets it!!!!
This situation is way better than the average man with a SAHW. Dillon still earns 40k, not far below the average wage.
none of the decision was made without her input. did you listen to the entire video?
Interesting take. I guarantee that if he had not gone for the PHD and she decided to have a baby, he would resent her beyond belief. It’s bad enough she resents him now, but for the wrong reasons.
So much of the focus was on Carrie not feeling comfortable spending money. However, Dillon got a pass for unilaterally deciding he was quitting work to go to school. Now he's frustrated at his wife for not wanting to fund a vacation.
Agree
I’d agree more if Carrie had any idea what she DID want to fund. No is a complete sentence at a hierarchical work but not in a marital relationship.
If she said, Dylan I don’t want to pay for the Japan Trip, right now I’d rather spend it on myself right now going to Pilates 4 days a week for my mental health, no doubt Dylan would have been happy with it.
I think that was totally egoistic from him. You can go to school, but don't expect me to fund you if you don't discuss this decision with me before.
@ Carrie mentioned plenty of things that she wanted to do with her money. She wants to replace the windows with ones that don't have lead paint. She wants to upgrade their home's insulation. She wants to replace their old car before it dies. And yes, she wants to go to Pilates classes. Not sure why these aren't enough for you?
He is working. A PhD is a full time research job. He is making a very good stipend for a graduate student so he's probably in a very lucrative field (i.e a STEM degree). You're putting in over 40 hours a week and aren't sitting there taking classes. It's more like an apprenticeship compared to undergraduate studies.
This husband comes off as being entirely selfish and self-centered. I cannot believe that he threw out that he didn’t want to be bothered with household stuff for four days out of a week. No. You do not get to just disassociate from being a grown adult for more than half of the week. If he was single - he’d be cooking and cleaning let alone working to fund his educational dreams. He is entirely ungrateful for the fact that she funds his entire life just so he can do what he wants. Not to mention they want to have kids while he’s still in his PhD program. So she’ll get to continue funding their lives and managing the household while he gets to be allowed to funnel all of his energies into his own dream. Absolutely not unless she agreed to that BEFORE he decided to stop being an equal partner without her input.
I disagree. He’s been carrying the entire burden of cooking and cleaning, not because he doesn’t work as much, because he clearly does, but because he doesn’t *earn* as much. And what’s more, she’s been using abusive language and tactics around this.
If the roles were reversed there would be an outcry.
Asking for 4 days to study is entirely reasonable and will balance things out. His studies will lead to a higher paying job, one that at least matches hers, which will benefit them both in the long run.
It doesn’t mean it will all fall on her, it means they both will equally contribute to the household a few days a week, and once a week they can get a cleaner and go out to eat.
In other words, a healthier, more respectful dynamic and lifestyle.
I am not loving the approach in this episode. I empathize with Carrie and her concerns. I almost feel like this episode shames her. Yes, she has opportunities to work on her scarcity mindset. The constant worry doesn't serve her. But I can understand some of her very valid concerns of not having enough savings while she is the primary earner. So many YOU statements to Carrie. I wish we could have approached it with more compassion.
As someone in academia, I will be very suprised if he will outearn her or even come close to the number he cited once he is done. A phd is not a guarantee for a higher income. Especially if you count in the years he lost on income inbetween. Wild takes all around.
Ad someone else in academia, I completely and wholeheartedly agree with you. 😐
Also add the fact that his salary range was so wide ($150k -$500k) let's me know he really has no idea what to expect.
That's what I thought
It does annoy me a bit that Ramit just takes people's word for it on these things. It's not realistic to make $500k with a PHD in CS. Mid $100s does seem realistic though, but it also wouldn't be hard to get that number after 6yoe in CS starting with a bachelor's and you'd be making 80-100k in the meantime.
@@CocoLicious yeah, I caught that, too. He's spending six years and idk how much money, and the minimum he'll be able to earn is 100K? Wasn't he already earning more than that? What was even the point?
I usually don't comment on videos, but Dillon is beyond frustrating to me and by reading the comments, it seems a lot of people are on his side. I don't get it. Dillon chose to take a pay cut from his 6 figures consulting career and to put all of the financial burden on his wife. He admits that he does not take care of the finances, and yet continues to same the lifestyle as he did before. Japan is clearly not her priority. All her concerns sounds like a woman preparing for her kids and making sure that she can afford that said kids for the next 3 years where Dillon will still be making a low income. Bringing Dillon on this show was beyond manipulative, because the premise here is to live your rich life now. He is just applying more pressure to get his way at her expense
There are lots of people in the comments on Carrie's side too, which is reassuring to see.
It would make perfect sense for them to sit down together, project out what parenthood might cost over the next few years, and make some ambitious savings goals to hit those targets. It'd even make sense to talk about what their finances would look like if Dillion quit his PhD program and went and found a job to support his growing family. It'd make for a great episode, and a lot of people would be really interested to hear that type of conversation.
But neither Carrie nor Dillion asked for that. Carrie certainly didn't ask Ramit to provide her with more reasons to stress about money and finances.
This show isn't about picking a side; it's about helping the couple.
I take her at her word when she clearly stated the Japan trip was a multi-year goal of theirs as a last hurrah before kids.
It's a hard conversation, women had to play a supporting role to breadwinning men, for generations. When the tables are turned, men usually see us as cash cows only and deprive us of emotional/psychological support. I don't think he will make a good dad, his idea of bonding is a trip, bonding can occur at no cost, using emotional skills and experience.
I completely agree. He literally made a decision without really getting her approval, kinda forced her to go along with his decision, and now is being a victim.
I think Ramit’s patience is a skill and blessing, however, I think sometimes he overlooks what drives people’s decisions. He’s good at identifying the patterns, but struggles seeing how some things can be detrimental to the entire relationship. Felt that way about the conversation last week too.
This whole thing is that as soon as he made that decision to quit work and go after his phd without sitting down and agreeing on it together, left her feeling like she can’t trust him. What else will he do to jeopardize their financial future? He needs to regain her trust.
he needs the cluebat to land on his head. He has magical thinking.
@@robinh7267 they did agree to it
Who is he to need to justify his dreams? Ok he gives her a warning and what, she’s going to say no? Then it would really show her true colors. Once he is done his potential to earn will exceed hers once he gets in the mid-level, C-suite management. Too short term thinking on her end
@ Cluebat hahhaha
Ran to the comments after 30 minutes. Carrie had her realization that she was acting similarly to her father withholding funds, but let’s think a layer deeper.
Dillon basically just told his wife he was pursuing a PHD and that she needs to pay up and support him. This PHD is going to take six years. Let’s assume that
1) Carrie does not lose her job
2) Dillon gets a well paying job the moment he graduates.
Does that mean that Carrie is waiting until her mid 30s to try for her first baby? It seems like she really wants to be a mother. Did Dillon even talk to her about that or did he just steamroll her? It seems like it would be tough for her to have a child during those six years of his program since she needs to bring home the higher income.
In my nonprofessional, random internet stranger opinion, it seems like Dillon became the father figure who is withholding something from her. In this case, support, understanding, and the gift of motherhood.
It would be interesting to hear how they handled their day to day lives when they were making equal incomes to give insight into the dynamic.
I think he steamrolled her. I agree that his YOLO attitude triggers her anxiety, he's trivialising the long term impact of making such a large change. If he was doing well and on track, he wanted to change it out, then he shouldn't complain about a downgrade in lifestyle. I think it's also that he prioritises a trip as a way to bond, instead of loving on her as the priority.
I think this may be missing the fact that to have work-driven (ie. not a stipend) high incomes is not essential for them to have children. Their current combined income is good enough - maybe ramping up the savings for a bit after the Japan trip, but it's not like they are in a position of poverty in which a child could not be taken care of!
And they are in the usa, where there is no paid maternity leave, so if she would have a baby now then she would have to take a break in her job, and have 0 money, and he is studying, it is imporsible to be a full on parent and having phd at tge same time. So someone will have to take a break, or wait 6 years!
Dillon is a tool who wants what he wants. Sorry girl.
@@tatjanav9657that's where the savings part comes in, to cover for this type of cases. Yeah, maternity leave is too short and unpaid in the US, I was on paternity leave myself for 18 months to allow my wife to keep doing what she loves and I can't imagine having a few weeks/months and then just get a sitter
Just from reading the title and before even watching the video - this is not a "finance" problem.
The podcast is about money for couples focusing in money psychology more than just finance.
There's a ton of psychology behind "money" issues.
Have you watched this show before? The titles never tell the whole story.
@@ruthmcmahon7126 then why did you comment?
Actually... it is a "finance" problem. Scratch that. "Finance" is the problem.
I’ve watched every episode since it’s been on TH-cam, do not comment often but this is a rare occasion where Ramit didn’t get this one right imo. She clearly wants to prioritise having children and he thought it was ok to cut his income by 80% just when they are coming into prime baby years. She will carry and have this baby and then what, she won’t want to go back to work, at least not FT / straight away but she might be forced to unless they start redirecting funds to a savings account specifically for this asap. Fixed costs might be 33% now but what are they if she isn’t working. I’m annoyed Ramit seemed really angry with her most of the episode but she couldn’t articulate these fears so he understood or he’d already decided she was the problem (which is again unusual)
Do the trip to Japan if you want but seriously start saving for these children asap so you can enjoy those years with your little ones, otherwise she will rightly be very resentful if she can’t and I don’t see the marriage making it.
Ramit is right, she is the problem here, the PhD is a tenporary thing and she will not have to work after that anyway
@@efraquilla hmm if it was a 1 or 2 year thing sure but 6 years is a very impactful amount of time especially at their age and children being the goal, temp or not.
So I agree that Ramit's perspective as a man and having no kids can sometimes limit his perspective and takes, but I actually think he was pretty spot on here. She already resents him, is chronically insecure about money and unable to prioritize self-care and couples connection time. These are exactly the problems that having kids will wildly exacerbate. If they don't address these issues now it's going to be some really painful years with little kids which they maybe can fight through with a lot of counseling but most likely will end in divorce and resentment on both ends. If she already resents him when they have tons of money and free time then she will resent him even more when she wants to scale back on work and be with the kids (if she wants that) and they are hustling from sunrise to sunset with diapers, snack, school, doctors visits, etc and barely have any time to rest, let alone connect as a couple mentally and physically.
This is the first time watching one of these episodes that I disagreed with the approach Ramit took. He is SO patient and truly takes time to understand where both parties are coming from to come up with a solution that can work for both of them; however - in this particular video he didn't consider the instability of a tech job + the instability of having a child for the first year. I have an 8 month old myself and we prepped! We had an emergency fund, saved up a "baby fund" to cover all the costs we predicted, and we have very stable careers which took off SO much stress. If I were the breadwinner and had a career field which is going through massive layoffs and my husband is more focused on a trip than a career, I would have major concerns. I think it would have been good to explore building a very large emergency fund to cover a potential job loss for Carrie and to investigate if Dillon would be willing to leave his PhD early to cover costs in addition to everything else discussed.
Edited to add: I am really glad that Ramit addressed the gender roles in this though. It wasn't fair and super demeaning that she used the term of a housewife and intended it to be demeaning and it definitely wouldn't fly if the roles were reversed.
I agree that Ramit could have pushed the larger emergency fund harder, although he does mention in passing a few times such as when they discussed her constant fear of the car breaking down. However, I think he didn't focus on that because THEY ARE INVESTING OVER 50k annually!! Redirect that aggressive saving for just a month or 2 and they will have enough for a new car in full. Cashflow isn't the issue, she is additcted to cranking the investing meter up to a maximum, which she intentionally sacrifices a huge emergency fund for due to them being so young and compuond interest yadiyada.. This is primarily a mindset issue that I don't think would change based on how much money they have in the bank.
I think this conversation misses the big picture, which is that his goals do not even converge with hers. His vision is not to become a father and support her as a partner, but rather pursue his own path, at her cost. I feel bad for her and I think her anxiety is justified. I hope she doesn't get bullied into draining her finances on frivolous spending when her goal is to become a mom.
I think the tech layoffs are a bit overstated because they are all over the news, but for experienced developers with a good resume, the unemployment rate in tech is very low. For people fresh out of college it’s harder
Yes! One thing I don't see mentioned often enough is the physical toll being pregnant takes on a woman. Some have easier pregnancies and can be back to work no problem after maternity leave. Others though are incredibly sick or have a difficult labor. My sister spent much of her pregnancy tied to an IV. Some jobs are not friendly to mothers and sideline them after they get pregnant. There is a lot of shifting and tech right now and it wouldn't surprise me to see a company lay off a pregnant woman. It's illegal but impossible to prove if others are also getting the boot.
@@andreeab5718 such an unfair comment to make
Carrie's rich life vision is not the same as Dillon's, that's the biggest issue. She married someone who did a 180 on their finances and that only benefits him (or his intellectual needs). She wants to be a mom, not to be frivolously spending on vacations. Also, you could go to Japan for a lot less, Dillon's entitlement over her money is just wild. Remember, they are only 1 year into this marriage, she does not need to fund someone else's expensive lifestyle when her needs aren't met. Of course she has anxiety because she is carrying their entire financial future. Dillon seems like a manipulative user, sorry for the strong language here. Carrie, run girl. Find yourself a partner who wants the same things as you and will not take financial advantage of you.
Carrie comes across as a very sweet and genuine person. I totally sympathize with the anxiety she is feeling based on what is happening in the real world. She also has the maturity and self-awareness to admit she has anxiety issues in general. Dillon probably did not understand all of this about her, but I bet he sure is getting more of it now. Seems like he may be at a crossroads. Will he turn the corner and become more supportive, or will he continue to grow more resultful of her anxiety? I hope he picks the 1st option and finds a healthy way to start a family with her. This is a team Dillon. This is not about you steamrolling to get only what you want. Do not put more than the fair share of work and family burden on her.
Not a fan of all the dumping on Carrie, in the comments and in the show itself. Dylan unilaterally chose to take an 80% pay cut, doesn't think he should have to sacrifice his lifestyle for it at all, doesn't think it's his job to think at all about the preparations they need to make to baby-proof their house...and yet the problem Ramit wants to focus on is that Carrie worries too much.
I mean, I'm a worrier too, so I get it. But one big lesson I've learned in working on my anxiety is that sometimes the anxious brain is getting worked up over nothing, but sometimes it's identifying genuine problems, and the challenge is to tell the difference.
Ramit's schtick is all about saying yes to fun things, so I'm not surprised that he had them brainstorm ways to afford the trip to Japan. But a better exercise might have been brainstorming ways to get the lead paint fixed sooner rather than later, so then they don't have to worry about it.
Not only this but the tech market is extremely unstable right now and companies keep doing layoffs so the competition if she does lose her job will be Stiff
@@calypso662 Absolutely this too. Ramit tends to assume that if someone is making $X, they'll continue making $X (or more) forever. But that's not necessarily the case, especially with tech jobs right now. Carrie feels like there's a big burden on her because there IS a big burden on her. It's not as bad as it could be, because their fixed costs are so low, but that doesn't mean her worries are unjustified.
We really don’t know how that conversation and the decision of he getting a PhD went
@@rossmarymarquez4700 They talk about it in some detail about 21 minutes in. She says they had a big fight, and she was not happy with his decision.
I think you bring up some good points - she didn't exactly sign up for that at first, but they have decided to continue their relationship (even getting married while he was a student, if I understand their timeline correctly) so she had opportunities to get out if that was truly a deal breaker.
Also, I think ramit focused on the Japan trip instead of fixing up the house because it's always going to be *something* with worriers (I know, I'm also a worried). And you can hear it when she talks, if it's not the house it's the car etc etc. there's always going to be some (school district for the kids, whatever) to worry about but she's letting that get in the way of living life and putting guilt on to her partner for making a choice she decided to accept.
She didn’t marry a PhD student though. She married someone in a similar tax bracket to her and then he chose to chase his dreams which then means her ability to spend is impacted. It isnatural that it would take her some time to adjust.
indeed, they should have split when she saw he wont be supporting her lifestyle and financial goals.
Didn’t she though? I thought they said they just celebrated their 1st year anniversary and he’s into his 3rd year of PhD, no?
She never had an ability to spend. She didn't like spending on herself or on the two of them from the get go. She will regret not spending some money on herself when/if they will have a kid, since their couples time and money might end up being even less than it is now.
@@saeedhossain6099jeez what a horrible mindset. I would gladly support my girlfriend if she had a career shift
@@tannerdriscoll6699 that's the difference between you and her, I'm not co-signing on her behavior I'm just stating it without varnish. she sees him as a drag to her lifestyle because although she sets the parameters of their household spending, she resents him not making enough to go 50/50.
How did he figure that their current combined income would be sufficient, if she's the primary earner, but she's the one who would have to stop working due to pregnancy and postpartum recovery?🤔
This. On average a woman's income takes a 30% hit from pregnancy because of all the missed work, why do men never factor that in, Carrie has a good reason to be worried.
because he's not thinking at all about the future, he wants to justify his current fun without factoring in all the consequences of him quitting his job
He is just selfish and gaslighting her. Having a baby is not a priority for him.
If he needed to he could go back to his old career. A phd is not going to make him less marketable
@@jy_hawk But he will spend 6 years!!! in his low pay phd program. Then he will need to start from scratch with a job.
This is the only episode that didn’t feel right from start to end & made Carrie look like a super bad person. I hope if Carrie reads the comments she sees the positive ones relating to her.
I agree. She seems like a rational adult who understands that money is finite and not guaranteed. Carrie isn't a "worrier" just because she is primarily responsible for the families short and long term financial goals. What I saw was that she is doing the boring financial part and is just looking for a strategy to make sure the family moves in a financially sound direction. Realistically, she would have been better served to have a plan for the best case scenario (baby, Japan, helping family) as well as a plan that would help them prepare for a layoff (which is an absolute possibility). I agree with Carrie; I wouldn't enjoy a trip to Japan if I had reason to believe that I might return and find out that my job doesn't exist.
After he just came and dropped the “I’m quitting working and going to get my PHD” b0mb I can see how she continued to have worry about their finances. She married a working partner, not a student but he decided to make the shift w/o her input. Glad she expressed it and he apologized. Wishing them well.
Whattt ? he's not going to be a student forever.
Dude became a student to end up making more income for both of them
@@drwalka10 he already had a high paying job. it's not guaranteed or even likely that academia will pay him much more than his old job.
According to the timeline he started his PhD prior to their marriage. He's 2+ years into the PhD and they only recently celebrated 1 year of marriage.
@@litapd311he won't stay in academia of course. He's citing a 200k salary...
I'm in the tech industry and she's right to be worried about the future right now.
He's also not come to terms with the trade off of doing the PhD. The trip seems to be his priority and not hers, but she's not able to say that to him now
So does he ..
I don't know why that wasn't discussed more. There have been so many layoffs .
Also if they’re thinking about a baby that is another huge stressor for the mom. How will pregnancy affect her job, can she afford to go on maternity leave, will her job be secured if she does? Also childcare is expensive so when she does return to work, she will be the one responsible for paying for that. They make good money but when it’s lopsided there are risks when making life changing decisions. I understand her overall unease, the fact that she’s the one who thought about replacing the lead windows and it didn’t even occur to him shows me that she has a lot of responsibility burden and has much to worry about.
I agree. They are both in an industry where they will both likely be laid off multiple times throughout their career, plus burn-out in tech is real. They should go to Japan now, but also build up that emergency fund and think about a future when one of both of them just can't keep up with the stress and rigor of employment in the tech jobs.
I agree that layoffs in tech are real. I'm going through one now. This arrangement works as long as she's working. If there is a layoff then I hope they are both prepared to put a pin in this plan. Japan isn't going anywhere. I can relate very much to them as my husband and I have a similar dynamic.
Did they decide as a team that the phd right now was the right thing to do and essentially putting kids off for 5+ years or potentially drain savings for having them? It doesn't sound like it. She is right to worry, it's not easy for women to be the breadwinners and also continue the career with kids. Tech is never the most stable industry. I think talking about the vacation was talking completely around the important points.
We don't know when they started thinking about kids, maybe it was after he started being a student. Either way they are investing too much in stocks and not saving enough in cash. A fat slug of cash would give them breathing room for a baby in a couple years.
They got married 2 years into the PhD. They are putting kids off 3 years at most and are a young couple.
I make well over $200K and I can tell you that when my husband and I have our twins last year, we have never felt more scared or anxious about money despite having saved for a baby fund and emergency fund. Kids change everything. Especially for someone working in an industry that is at high risk for layoffs (tech), she SHOULD be anxious about money when all they have in savings is $23K, there is LEAD paint, and they want to have kids. Yikes. I feel like because Ramit doesn't have kids, this is an area where he has a hard time fully understanding. Ramit's rich life is about traveling and convenience without kids, and I have noticed that most of his advice about kids or for parents (or future parents) in general comes off as not very sympathetic or understanding. I wonder if his tone and financial advice would change if he has kids one day.
The reality is that they have no kids. It’s not that they only have 23k in savings. They/she is overly investing their income instead of saving. They can have the money to get rid of the lead paint and go to Japan. If she’s smart enough to get the job in the first place, if she gets laid off, she will eventually get another. Also, bro could pause the PHD for them to work and stack before they have kids. Respectfully, yall/them make a lot of money. People don’t need to have kids to understand numbers. Especially the numbers they showed
They have multiples of 100K worth of investments. They can use that as part of their savings strategy
That is exactly what I'm thinking
Kids are expensive and her not working while he's in PhD phase will cut income a lot. But Ramit's point that the vacation isn't the issue, her worrier type, and the couple dynamic is unhealthy- that all stands. They need to get themselves sorted out before they get pregnant- to your point, being parents is emotional and financial burden. It will exacerbate all of these issues
pretty sure I saw you in the comments of another podcast saying that a couple with over a million in investments in their 30s didn't have that much money because they had kids, which makes me think there's a running theme here....kids are hard and expensive! I'm pretty terrified of them too! But there's a dollar amount where the anxiety becomes damaging. Might not be 200k, but what about 300-500k when he graduates in 2-3 years, and when they have so much in investments they can coast FIRE (which they are on pace for right now)?
People are seriously underestimating how much having kids costs. There's leave to give birth, burning ridiculous amounts of vacation time for all the appointments during pregnancy, the shift in priority from peak work performance to spending time with the kid. What if her dream is to quit and be a stay at home mom? He gets his dream phd and she foots the bill and no kids!
What if the baby has health issues and needs to spend time in the nicu? He's telling her a vacation to Japan is more important than kids.
People are wrongly assuming that his income is going to go back up after he finishes his phd. He left his current job not because he didn't like the money, he left DESPITE the high salary because it wasn't enough of an intellectual challenge. Academics that are doing "difficult " research are not well paid because there is no immediate economic benefit in the work they do, his pursuit of intellectual stimulation is not the money maker may of y'all are assuming. And if he hopes to become a professor add another 4 years after he gets his phd as being a poorly paid post grad.
if you dont support your partner in their pursuit to be happy with their career ... then you are a poor partner, you dont care for their needs and therefore yall need to get divorce period
@@drwalka10 But the support needs to go both ways. Is Carrie happy in her career? (I don't think we know, because I don't think that topic ever came up.) What if she also wants to transition into a lower-paying but less stressful or more stimulating job, but she feels she can't do that now because Dillon already did?
It’s a phD in computer science. Sounds like he plans to work in the tech industry, not academia.
didn't he say it would be anywhere from 150k to 500k?
@@DJHesterman
He’s unrealistic there.
When Ramit asked him what their priority is, he said travelling, and some other things like saving for pension, but he didn't mention kids at all. He does not see himself as a father in a nearest future.
or at all. And that's fine, as long as they're both aware of it
@tomaszp2027 yeah, but looks like she is not really
She needs to deal with her mom guilt before having kids. Children will emulate how their parents think about life.
For real! This "we HAVE to rebuild the entire house to make it baby safe" mentality sounds exhausting. You really DON'T need new windows to have a kid, and it sounds like she is making any excuse to delay having them. Also, a trip to Japan isn't $15k, my wife and I just went for 11 days and it was MAX $8k and we hit 3 cities.
This is something I wish my mother did. My life would have been much different.
Her dad was fighting over child support not because it would impact his finances but because it was a way to punish her mom.
Her mom sounds a little financially irresponsible
I think she used the word “stingy” to describe her dad. Sounds more like selfish. It’s sad to me that she is even aware her parents were disputing over child support.
Ding ding ding
Nothing is guaranteed in life, including two six figure salaries. Her worries are valid. He could also blindside her by not wanting to have kids right away once he finishes his phD, or a number of other unforeseen circumstances could happen including infertility or job loss. My advice to her is to make sure she is taking care of herself and focusing on her dreams and passions because it seems like he’s only focused on his.
Totally agree. Sounds like she's not enamored with the high pressure tech job long term.
I totally get Carrie's worries. I went through a layoff and the competition was brutal and completely different than a few years ago. There are some big economic factors coming that could very well make it worse. I hope they prioritize an emergency fund.
Also, I don't think he's living in reality. He wants it all without sacrifice. He totally said his dream is to have FOUR days each week without cooking and cleaning. Does he really want a family or does he just want a support system? Who's paying for that, dude? Carrie's already covering the mortgage.
One thing I don't see mentioned often enough is the physical toll being pregnant takes on a woman. Some have easier pregnancies and can be back to work no problem after maternity leave. Others though are incredibly sick or have a difficult labor. My sister spent much of her pregnancy tied to an IV.
Some jobs are not friendly to mothers and sideline them after they get pregnant. There is a lot of shifting in tech right now and I've seen companies lay off pregnant women. It's illegal if that's the reason but impossible to prove if others are also getting the boot.
If I were Carrie, I would've weaponized my anxiety and invested all of my income in excess of 40k (or whatever the stipend is), and lived more frugally until my partner was out of school. The PhD is a long-term play. Could've doubled down. 200k sounds like a lot of money, but in volatile tech and with the cost of living as high as it is, you'd be surprised by how quickly it evaporates.
Thank you. Being a worrier is not a bad thing.
I like it. "Let's BOTH live on ramen for six years, and after you graduate, if this super-high-paying job really comes through, we can take all the trips to Japan that you want."
Agreed. It's easy to say "let's spend a bunch of money on trips" when you're not bringing in any money now or the near future. Carrie is thinking about the future, Dillon is only thinking about himself, which seems typical in their relationship based on how he handled the PhD.
@@litapd311 Agree! He is using he to accomplish his own dreams. Her dreams or plans to have a baby do not matter to him.
@@andreeab5718 Agreed, he comes off a little cake-and-eat-it-too by expecting his spouse to fund a ~20 thousand dollar trip to Japan while making only 40k a year, of his own volition.
If they doubled down (double down'd?), once he graduates they'd be millionaires with a 500k household income and no bad debt. Great financial foundation for their kids and future vacations.
I completely understand Carrie side here. First time I disagree with Ramit. The problem started because Dillon made a decision himself and added on Carrie's back a backpack that is not hers. In my opinion, he should have started the PHD only if she had also expressed she was happy with the decision, but she was taken by surprise and was not happy. This is extremely concerning and Carrie should definitely re-consider asking Dillon to stop his PHD. It feels like he assumed that she would have to pay more and feels entitled of her money. This doesn't seem right! 🤔
The implication that her mom was bad at saving bothered me when it sounds like the dad was financially abusive and screwed his ex-wife over - plus gave his daughter crippling anxiety. Hell of a guy.
For them I would say
1. Use the 2500 they spend a month on home improvements and fix the lead paint
2. Once it is fixed, save some extra money for a new car. Lets say $10,000 in total
3. Then save the 15,000 for the Japan trip.
They could also do all 3 things simultaneously. But Carrie has too much burden and needs to offload it to Dylan. He should help manage the money more. Ramit has told this to many couples. Sharing the mental load of paying bills will help ease some of her worries.
Good plan. They can tackle things one at a time. Carrie worries too much, Dylan acts like everything is sunshine and buttercups. They are better off having a plan handling the different worries they have. Tackle the paint, then the funds for a car, then smaller vacation say $6-8k for Japan then pay off the house sooner to reduce risks of layoffs. Stack up some emergency funds for baby too. Dylan is clearly just thinking for the now and not helping his wife share the burden. Being the lower earner spouse, he should be the one shouldering most of the housework. Nevertheless, Carrie should not be calling him derogatory names.
I hadn't thought about this approach. Very concise and very achievable. Good observation too that she just needs to take off some of the mental burden of carrying the finances.
I feel bad for them both. She didn’t start the relationship with her partner earning so little. He decided he wanted to pursue his dreams, but banked on his partner stepping up and covering most of everything. Also fine if you’re in a partnership but this can never be assumed, it needs to be discussed properly so each person fully understands what a change like that will mean financially and in reality. There needs to be a joint plan and timeline that both agree to. Nothing should be assumed, even if in the long run it makes sense for the partnership. She probably chose him as a partner as she knew he needed someone who was capable of earning a lot of money and he fit that role, until he decided he didn’t. So even though she’s said some terrible things to him which can’t be condoned, I don’t think it’s all on her. She hasn’t ended up with the partner she thought she would. Even if this is just a dip, it’s still a big change. But a manageable one, if they had been able to discuss things in depth and as a team. Good luck to them both.
3k is not too bad. And he can increase his earnings for sure with time passing.
I feel like the addressed the issue, and she said what she needed, and he did what she asked. So now they can only move forward
It’s probably the worst video I have seen from you, coming from someone who’ve followed you for a long time. I think Dillon is a very impulsive, irresponsible, and selfish guy who expects his wife to cover him, so he can freely enjoy his passions without taking on any consequences. Their relationship is like a mom having to take care of and make decisions for a grownup baby who will always demand for new toys and adventures. Her income is not guaranteed, and he has to learn how to navigate his current low income, which means no expensive trip until he makes more money. She is already covering their baby funds and most of their bills already. The least he could’ve done is contributing more to doing house chores and stop asking for things that he himself can’t not afford with his money
Insecurity can never be fixed with money. I’ve met so many insecure people and it is intrinsic. Therapy.
One thing that was completely missed was when the guy said that they had enough income between both of them to have kids and a family.
That is not really the case. If she gets pregnant and has a baby she will probably want to stay home for a while at the very least and that would take her income out of the equation once maternity leave runs out. Him having such low income is forcing her to go back to work while her baby is a couple months old denying her ability to stay at home with the baby. Not say she has to but he is taking that option away from her by deciding to go into a PhD and get a huge pay cut.
Tech jobs tend to have parental leave of at least 3 months
If I have to guess, Carrie's employer(most big techs) offer a very generous maternity leave package to not have to actually take her income off the table(source, sibling used to work for bay area big tech)
@@Snackathon360 The last two people I know who took parental leave at my "big tech" company were gone after the next round of layoffs. Those "generous leave packages" are meaningless in at-will states.
Their fixed costs are only 33% and they're investing 50k per year. Save a bit and scale back the investing and they are fine for a while honestly
Oh please, with the amount they have coming in, they could save up for a full one year of her not working at all and still being fine.
As a mom of two also primary earner you NEED to do things for yourself trust me when you have kids you’ll miss when you actually had time to do those things
you highlighted wrong word. you should hilighted word yourself. since that is important. if they want to go to japan, they should go. but I understand that building nest egg for time after divorce is more important.
My ex-husband did something similar, and it’s the reason we are divorced. When a couple is considering a baby, money = safety on a primal level. For the husband to behave unpredictably, take away even her option of using maternity leave or God forbid, if the baby has a health or developmental concern where she needs to take extended time off, there is no safety net. His unilateral decision making is not okay in anyway shape or form and signals that he could do other things without her permission or knowledge. My guess is he has done other things that she wasn’t comfortable with small or big and this is just the most identifiable one. Does she want to go to Japan with him?
Yeah who's idea was it to go there? I mean take a vacation locally since he can't afford to go.
The income from their investments as it stands right now is 20k.
It sounds like she had dreams of being a stay at home mom while the kids are little or working part-time to raise her kids and now that dream has been shattered. She is approaching 30 so the clock is ticking and there is nothing she can do.
Sounds like he is more interested in pursuing his career/dreams than having kids at the moment.
She wants to save to have a stable environment for their kids. She is being very realistic and has seen first hand how hard it is to raise a child without support from a partner.
Her anxiety is valid- She wants to start a family and likely feels like time is ticking. Meanwhile he’s prioritizing his Ph.D for the next 7 years, over his wife and you bet over their future baby. That is the source of her anxiety in the marriage
If you have 30% fixed cost with 1.4 income and still have this much anxiety there the call is coming from inside the house
I don’t like thinking about money coming from the person that makes 5x less and he wonders why his wife is worrying about money 😂
LOL I caught that too
@@uroneandonlyCPA not liking to think about money is not the same as not thinking about money at all. We only got a glimpse into their relationship, we can't extrapolate how they act on a larger scale/over a longer period.
Also the entitlement he has over her money.
@@andreeab5718 I don’t think so he has shown any sort of entitlement , all he wants her to look at the numbers n enjoy that life together
@ I can't see how if the gender roles were switched, that a wife would be that smug and not be socially criticised.
I feel for Carrie. Baby is expensive. And on top of it tech industry is very volatile now. She can lose her job and childcare expense when she goes back to work is a lot too. What her husband does is very very unfair. Personally i think she deserves someone who is on the same page with her and respect her
Those smiles are covering a lot of turmoil.
Her smile is resigned, and his is smug. He applied for the show knowing that he could get Ramit to gang up on his wife with him, and he was right.
@@johannamiller527 I'm a little disappointed Ramit isn't seeing through this tbh.
@@yestothisi felt sorry for her. He' s getting all the things he want and has a nice life during it and she has to work. Hope he doesn' t dump her babyless in her mid 30s for a younger one after finishing his PHD.
He's learning to express appreciation and gratitude, it wasn't like he was just sitting on his butt not thinking about self improvement.
She didn't sign up to pay his way thru a PhD, HE made that decision alone and now is surprise pikachu face she didnt like it.
Granted she needs a therapist because she does not have a healthy relationship with money, but lets not pretend that is only her(or him lol)
yeah they shouldnt have stayed together, how dare his goals interfere with her lifestyle.
PhD stipends usually are greater than tuition. She is paying for their lifestyle not his education
@ I don't know dude, making a decision like quitting your job and cutting your income by over 50% seems like a conversation with your fucking wife.
But what do I know, I only been divorced once lol
This, 100%, he completely jeopardized their future together as they agreed upon when they got married.
@andreeab5718 they got married after he started his PhD (1 year married, 3 years into the PhD)
$1100 eating out monthly is crazy considering she has this waste-not-want-not mindset.
Worrying is her identity. It will take a lot for her to change. This is a personality trait, this propably leaks into other areas of her life. Hope he steps up to take some of the financial management pressure off of her. I wish them the best.
She did admit the anxiety spills over into non financial matters. She may just be "wired" for anxiety. Her early childhood experiences probably didn't help. I get where she's coming from Re the anxiety because I'm the same.
Therapy and a lot of work outside of therapy helped me significantly. The anxiety is still there, it's my perspective that changed.
I hope Carrie can reach a similar place.
Of course she worries when he makes bad financial decisions, his goals are not hers! He doesn't want to have a baby and save for her to be comfortable. This is a classic manboy scenario where, if he doesn't get things his way, she is automatically the villain.
I've been struck by so many couples on this podcast fully embracing a 50-50 financial split no matter what the income levels are. There's a need to make everything balance in the accounts so that everyone feels like it's "fair and equal." This is why people think a SAHM "doesn't work," yet if the mom works for a salary, is she paying the nanny nothing because she's now "not working"? A house-spouse is lesser because he's not pulling 6 figures, but the housekeeper is paid nothing for doing this non-work?
I see couples like this one being so focused on financial equality, that they can't see that they are a team. Each person has a role to get the team moving forward; sometimes that's paid work, sometimes that's sweat or time work.
I see this dynamic so often that I wonder if I'm out of step with reality and too much of an idealist. I'm not currently in a relationship, but I wouldn't want to be in a relationship that wasn't a team working toward similar goals and lifting each other up.
Thats how we did it. My spouse makes $0.
Bro/Sis I hate this. The guy just keeps saying "Carrie feels this way". I'm glad you're both open and had conversations about money, but I want to know how you feel dude. Let Carrie speak for her own feelings.I honestly don't know the guys name and only know the girls name because how often the name Carrie was said.
His name is Dillon
Ramit, this was disappointing. Women are more money insecure, which you know. And yet you didn’t call out his decision to do the PhD without a real convo. There is now an established fear that he will put himself above the unit. Yet you are railing on her for her anxiety in a unstable tech market.
I agree. The "proclamation" that he was getting a PhD was so inappropriate. It's a joint decision once you're married.
I can’t imagine their future with a kid. Paying childcare in the future. I really hope they take care of this situation before kids!
agreed, unless they can value another person for themselves rather than treating them as a cost center/I can't believe I have to subsidize the living costs of my partner, they have no business having kids. anxiety is can be prudent, but using it as an excuse to demean another person, thats not a worry issue that is a values/compatibility issue.
I read that wives now make significantly more than their husbands in about 20 percent of marriages. Most of us did not grow up in this situation so there is some resentment. Women were trained to think of their husbands as the primary breadwinner. They want to be able to work less or not at all when they have children. Right now, I think they should enjoy the trip to Japan. It is much harder to engage in international travel when you have young children. I think marriages now seem more adversarial. It is my income and your income. Where is the we and ours? That seems to be the problem here not what they earn.
The last 50 years of greater gender equality, which now includes very high earning women is struggling against the tens of thousands of years of genetic code. Just look at dozens of past episodes where the woman earns more than the man and they both struggle with it.
Yea, men promoted the image that they should be the primary breadwinner and that women should have certain roles. This is probably why the abuse rate is higher in women in those groups.
Sorry but marriage, in many cases, has always been this way. As someone who has seen and grew up in a traditional marriage, my dad did plenty of the “ my money”, except my mom’s money was his too. It only seems more adversarial now bc the other side has a voice and is speaking up.
@jenkins5265 yep, this happened all the time.
Men loved holding money over the heads of women. That's why the whole push to have your own bag came in. Also, it's not like men have realized 'oh, I'm making less, so I need to pick up more of the other responsibilities'. Instead, they neglect chores until the women give up and decide to file for divorce because their vows didn't include being mommy to a grown adult
Carrie DOES NOT WANT TO GO TO JAPAN, stop trying to make her
Exactly! It is obvious she wants to prepare for their future kid. She needs to advocate for herself better and work on her communication skills. Seems like she lashes out when they argue about money and he used that to paint himself as the victim
@@patriciatrevant5741 It looks like a case of weaponized victimization on his side. He easily makes plans to spend the money that she earns, leaving very little room for her plans and wants. I hope she realizes that this person is not a great future father. They are a different stages in their lives. Carrie should run and find herself a suitable partner, while Dillon eats his ramen for 6 years.
She clearly stated in the video it was their (used "we" not _his_) multi-year goal to go to on a last hurrah trip prior to kids after Ramit asked who came up with the idea for a trip to Japan. She had every opportunity to state she did not want to go and if that is truly the case then she needs to be honest and say so. Not everyone can read her mind like you can.
Ramit explicitly asks her at 57:07 if she wants to go to Japan because she keeps circling back to home repairs and they have thought about the trip for four years. Ramit can see it's not a financial priority for her which is why he says it's not about Japan. It's the same reason she hasn't committed to $200/month in Pilates classes. They're playing small. Even the 15k wouldn't make or break them surviving her becoming pregnant. They, like everyone else, will have financial challenges, but they're both miserable with how things are.
@@sp4hybridized Don't you think she would feel differently about money if she wasn't carrying the entire financial burden? Also, they cannot afford their lifestyle if she needs to pause work and take care of a child. People tend to glorify the tech maternity benefits. IMO her anxiety is justified.
Just here to say we have the same amount of income and a kid. We also have a house built from 1980 and I promise you don’t need brand new windows to welcome a new baby. We have traveled with our son to 9 countries, some countries several times. We just did Japan with him (he’s 3) so please take the trip and dont think you won’t be able to travel after kids. ALSO, why is it demoralizing for men to have a woman that is the bread winner but not the other way around, let’s please stop with this double standards that hurt men and women, it doesn’t matter who makes more money (I’m also the high income earner) and my husband and I enjoy OUR money together!
Its only really demoralizing if the other demoralizes you.
There’s no problem with her earning more. There’s no problem with the overall salary. The problem is they got married making the same amount of $, and then he unilaterally changed their plans and opted to go back to school, and left Carrie to carry the load. That’s not what a partnership is.
@@aas55yeah I get that and agree but throughout the video even Ramit suggests the comments of her saying “I’m the bread winner” are hurtful and that’s what I disagree with; if it’s not hurtful when a man says I’m the bread winner it shouldn’t hurt the other way around.
@@aas55he’s 3 years in to the PhD program and they got married a year ago. So your assertion is not true.
This is VERY much hitting home for me. Looking back, I had the same mentality that Carrie has/had with my partner and it ended up leading to a divorce.
Since then, I have learned my lesson and improved a ton. And trust me, life is SO much better not stressing about money as much.
Please learn the lesson now so you don’t have to figure it out after you get divorced.
Why does this trip to Japan have to cost $15k?!?
It doesnt. Ramit even suggested going closer to $10k. $1.5k each for tickets, plus likely stay at least 10 days in $$$ Japan given how far away it is, and you get to $10k quickly
Exactly. I went to Japan last fall for 2 weeks and spent a third of that lol
Right, I have the same dream with my wife and even after using Ramit’s “add 50% rule” I estimated like 8-10k
well, they want to have premium sushi I guess
Because he thinks she makes enough money to cover that for him.
I think Ramit missed on this one. Dylan bulldozed the decision to reduce his income - it sounds like she was all but forced to eventually agree. He mentioned he was a tech consultant. Assuming he made about $100k/year more, he essentially decided for the both of them to forfeit $600k early in their careers. The opportunity cost of that is huge. If they invested that money and let it sit for 30 years, at 7% return thats about $5 million.
Besides being opposed to his schooling decision, she has no guarantee of seeing a return on the education investment. She funds all leisure for 6 years and pushes back having a family, and he gets educated. What if they divorce in 5 years? He gets to keep his high salary and she loses out on her personal financial and family goals. I think it would have helped them to do a post-nup in exchange for him lowering his salary so drastically.
I usually agree with Ramit’s takes but the way this episode was handled really pissed me off.
this was not the right take, if she has any pregnancy problems or postpartum problems and they loose her income they DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH. and while I ofc wish her a pleasant pregnancy and delivery and no pp depression, that is not always the case, they gotta plan for that and he needs to get his ass into gear, also id love to see which positions he would be elegible for with a phd that would make up for all this years of lost income, seems like hail mary plan on his part. even if he does land the job, he might not be happy if what he likes is studying and not working, hell just teach or study something else, this is not the time for unilateral decision for his sake, if he had any character he would do what is right for their kids and his wife even if he didnt like it in the moment
His plan works if he finishes the phd and gets the pay he expects but if she loses a job to kid/layoff they will have a significant setback.
If he could reassure her he'd get a better job in that setback instead of idk how long phd track she'd probably feel better.
No one could do that in this day and age
I wish them both the very best, but this is MUCH MORE than a financial issue. I hope they work out their true issues because this is not headed down a healthy path.
Huge props to these two for being able to have this discussion so honestly and openly while still being able to listen and receive what the other was saying. It’s so easy to get defensive and play the blame game. Good on those two
As someone with a PhD, he is too confident in graduating in 6 years, especially if he is raising kids while doing the program. Also he should have a good idea of exactly what he wants to do once he has a PhD. Only 10% go into a academic position, assuming employment after graduation is bold, especially when in many cases he would now be over qualified for many jobs.
I haven’t watched the whole video yet, but I feel for her and can totally relate! This is my life, minus the large income! I’m a worrier 😢😢
Damn… I feel for her :( but also this guy.. he’s def not a bum, consultant turned PhD student… he’ll be a partner one day and they’ll be fine. Hope they go to Japan :)
Why do you feel for her? This would be the most normal marriage in the world and nobody would bat an eye if their gender roles were reversed! There’s nothing to feel for her…
@@melogranohifiyep this doesn’t pass the gender swap test
@mel exactly
@@melogranohifi Agreed.
@@melogranohifi you literally can't reverse the genders because Dillon can't get pregnant. That would be on Carrie too.
“Doesnt seem fair for me to pay more” - welcome to equality
One person is on a team, other doesn’t view it that way.
She seemed to resolve that quickly.
Being part of a team means making decisions ( major) as a team. Him strong-arming her into his PHD and not appreciating the person who's covering the cost shows that he wasn't on the team. They probably need to see a therapist prior to having a baby , so they can continue that "equality" thing.
You're talking about equity..
Just for their reference, idk where they live, we just replaced 12 windows with retrofit vinyl windows for $16K in SoCal.
Don’t buy vinyl windows.
"Playing small" is a really great phrase that Ramit uses. Awesome follow up on this one too, she seems a lot more certain.
I wish Ramit took a different approach to this. I feel I find myself in a similar situation where I make 3x my boyfriend’s income.
I am a very giving person and thought I didn’t care about the income disparity because I planned to marry this person. That was until I started to feel like I was footing the bill/financially supporting my boyfriend of 1 years passion. Which I would be happy to do.. except that I don’t support his passion - becoming a pro poker player.
I feel my high income almost holds him back and he doesn’t put forth effort in finding a career for himself. He’s currently working a $15/hour job while playing poker on his time off…
You know what to do - wish you the best!!
I’ve got a brother unemployed but his wife makes six figures. He keeps looking for wfh jobs only
Why can't he find any job for now?
do they have kids? does he run the home? is he dead weight? there's a lot of non monetary value the at home spouse provides.......
@@saeedhossain6099 can provide.... I have a friend who's husband does very little of the child rearing and she does most of the chores.
@@saeedhossain6099”Dead weight” is sending me.
I relate so much with Carrie especially about seeing my mom struggle and never wanting to be in the same situation. I personally think they should wait until Dylan finishes school to have children to prevent burnout and lifestyle reduction.
Once you get married, it's not his money / her money - it's the families resources to be allocated effectively. This becomes very apparent when you have children, and it doesn't make things easier. (ps, having children is the best thing in the world)
She shouldn't call him a housewife, but he should definitely be doing the bulk of the housework and thankful that his partner is able to carry the load while he pursues his dreams.I do applaud her for seeking counseling to address her anxiety and about the income disparity. It's good that they are in couples counseling as many of these issues seem to be fixable.
Why should shouldn't they split household chores? Is she working much longer hours than him? I am not that far into this episode, but this would be the only fair reason for him to be taking on more chores than her.
So when he has a higher income than her after getting his phd, should she start to do all the housework even though they’re working the same hours? He’s not an unemployed house husband, he’s a full time student.
Its a time issue not a wage issue. If she wants her responsiblities outsourced with her fun money so be it.
@@laura-vw9ly doesn't she make about 200k? He said after his PhD he should be making 150-200k. So at best, he'll be making the same amount as her. He's an unemployed full-time student whose wife is subsidizing his dream.
@@ThePestilentDefiler she's covering his portion because he decided to go to school.
Dillon is doing a PhD, not sitting on his ass playing videogames. Doing a PhD is like working 2 full time jobs plus studying. I know as I've done my PhD and PostDoc in science and my wife has a MSc. You're pulling 80 hr/wk in the lab AND you have to constantly read cutting edge research to stay up to date on your own time, not to mention writing papers for publication. I would read/write on the bus ride to the lab, do experiments all day in the lab, read/write on the bus back home, then head out after dinner to the library/cafe to keep working. All that and I was making a stipend of $18k/year!
That being said, I understood that grad school involved financial sacrifice. Both my wife and I were in grad school simultaneously making $36k/yr combined. We didn't have a car, didn't take vacation, didn't buy anything, lived off free food from suppliers, moved in with parents to save on rent etc. The only time off we got were going to conferences that were paid by the lab (and those were awesome!). After my wife graduated and starting making real money, we continued to be frugal until I finished my program and landed my job.
Embrace the life of a poor grad student. My supervisor always said "you should be living and breathing this stuff every moment of your life, even in your dreams." You shouldnt' have time to think about spending money.
I want to hear about Dillon's childhood. I feel that was missing from the conversation.
I really feel for Carrie. i get some commenters criticizing her, but as someone who has struggled with anxiety as a guy and felt improvement through therapy from it, im glad she's spending the money on herself, it was one of the ways I felt meaningful release from crippling fear, which I don't think anyone can judge her for unless they've felt it themselves. she's scared, plain and simple. if she was on her own, she'd be good, but it is important to acknowledge that despite the protective function of acting on feeling scared, she's chosen to have a partner and it's not right to deny the effect it has on them, even if it's subconscious and not intentionally harming. spending on herself is giving her meaningful reasons to feel alive and if that slowly inches her closer to understanding that her connection and confidence in herself and her partner important and worth risking trust, then I hope they keep trying!
Women tend not to feel comfortable being responsible for being the bread winner in the relationship with the family finances dependent on them, especially if his earnings are not enough to support the family. If he earned more, even if she out earns him, she would probably feel more comfortable in the situation. Big picture, school will one day end and his earnings will increase, it's a temporary situation.
In the scenario you described, she would tolerate him but still some respect is lost.
How would you know how women feel? The people who show up on this channel are not a representative sample. Also, who guaranteed he'd get a job after over half a decade without one? You can't count on that being a certainty
Perfectly said
if you're a woman who wants to have kids, then it makes sense to not feel comfortable being the bread winner. your life plans will directly reduce your income by a lot when you're pregnant/after birth which he is completely ignoring i guess. her stance makes total sense.
@@litapd311 Exactly. People have an expectation of pregnancy, childbirth and early motherhood being a cakewalk.
Women commonly lose teeth while pregnant as the formation of a foetus's bones leeches calcium from the expectant mother. Some women lose the ability to think clearly because the brain re-wires to focus on the baby's survival. This is a very precarious position if she is the breadwinner, doubly so if the mother is partnered with someone who is careless enough to undertake a PhD knowing his wife will support him. He gets to be stress free, but usually Ramit asks the person coasting how they would manage the finances if the worrying spouse died.
That usually gets them to start reframing the "worrier" as the person who has your back (although this guy was convinced in his ability to start thinking about money without previously demonstrating that ability)
Why is Ramit demonizing saving and investing? They are not millionaires like Ramit. In the financial journey, they are in the typical hyper accumulation phase. Their mortgage is still a big part of the house, and they don't have much non-retirement savings. The 15% savings rule that Ramit gives is not the best for people starting out. They are young and if they save more now they will have it easier later. I don't understand why a trip to Japan would cost $15K. I went to Japan twice this year, and it's really cheap right now. Airfare was less than $1K roundtrip (can be as low as $600 depending on where they live), and it's not hard to find a hotel that costs $100/night. Food cost is pretty low in Japan as well. If they squeeze a bit, they could budget something like $2K (airfare) + $1.5K (hotel) + $1K (food) + $500 (miscellaneous) = $5K total for a two-week trip. That's an amount they can easily save in a month. I think Carrie is carrying the burden of managing money and Dillon just doesn't care really because Carrie will take care of it. He is not making enough to have any impact in their financial situation, and he does not help managing expenses either, and that's why Carrie is having a lot of anxiety as Dillon seems unreliable. If Dillion had been more proactive in helping Carrie manage money, maybe Carrie will be less anxious. Dillion wants to go to Japan and it will be great if he can come up with a budget and show it's really not that expensive.
I'd be really tempted to buy a newer house in a newer neighborhood if you're really worried about lead paint. Anecdotally, I've heard of soil around an older house being contaminated with lead, so it's not just the house itself that's a problem. Replacing all of the windows is going to be insanely expensive.
That said, I spent years 0-4 (peak paint-eating years) in a really old farm house that was probably chock-full of lead and I turned out fine.
This video made me realize that feelings definitely are real, even though they may have less basis in reality. We're a dual physician couple, and when my wife cut down to part time, I felt like it was unfair that I had to carry more of the load. The feeling of fairness and unfairness is real, even though the numbers don't really point to a logical concern.
I'm also in dual physician household and reading your story I think "why does my partner get to work part time, and I don't get to go part time too? Instead I'm still working full time so we still have good money!" But my partner and I make similar amounts in our specialties. If one of us was doing more of the childcare work or our incomes were very different at baseline though it would feel different I think.
I feel like the critique of Carries comments were a bit like a lecture/chastisement. When we've seen the reverse its been about each partner wanting to feel like the "contribute" to the relationship. The approach could have been due to things we didnt see in the episode during their conversation or bc the main issue stated for coming on the show was her approach. I totally agree people treat their partner with respect so im not sure what the "proper" response is.... just struck me as a bit more harsh than I've seen on this show.
$900/mo on eating out and being anxious about money is kinda crazy
still need to enjoy life.
@@HelloWorld-hb7yt you can enjoy life without spending $30 a day on eating out lol. Plus cooking at home and having dinner together with your partner is good for your relationship
As someone who spends 16-20 hours and $400 a month meal prepping for a 2 people household, if I made $200k, I would outsource food prep too. Her time and energy is worth more than the cost savings.
He doesn't seem the most responsible person with money. I believe that's the reason she can't relax if she wants kids.
Pregnancy is so unpredictable that she thinks she can not afford to have a difficult pregnancy and he's more worried about Japan.
I hope Carrie truly realizes how draining it is to deal with someone who's basically banging their head against an imaginary wall constantly, complaining how much it hurts. Yet when you point out the wall isn't real, they say "yeah, but it FEELS real!!!" You can't really work with someone like that.
Carrie seems aware of the anxiety she feels. It's absolutely her responsibility to help herself with that.
Dillon does seem empathetic, but it's not on him to "fix her."
That's not true. What makes it impossible, is expecting the person to be able to stop feeling the feeling, just because you tell them to.
The tech industry is precarious. She really could get fired. They're trying to lower labor costs. There's huge competition for tech jobs and AI is throwing a wrench into things. She could be out of work for 2 years. So, how is her anxiety unjustified? If her company dumps her, he won't be able to keep the boat afloat.
@@dustymuralif her anxiety is justified, then if that situation comes to pass, and for their sake I hope it doesn't happen, the she better be ready to eat alot of crow and tolerate being treated like lesser in their relationship.
I don't disagree, but I think in case she's feeling that her job is in jeopardy, she should be more clear that the plan needs to be save save save and no, we can't afford to go to Japan regardless of how nice the numbers look on paper. Circling back to the anxieties and rumination without making a plan that alleviates them would be absolutely exhausting to deal with for everyone. The churn is not productive even if it is triggered by realistic scenarios.
This episode felt different in tone. There seemed to be a bit more of telling them how they should feel vs them coming to that realization organically. Also, her fear of not having enough is justified if she were to get pregnant before the end of his PhD program. But the amount she was saving was was more than absolutely necessary...
I say this as a parent of 2 school aged boys. There is always going to be some house repair to do. It just is. It doesn't make you a bad mom. Do they need to have a huge emergency fund if she's in tech? yeah, probably. But the Japan trip... You can travel with kids. I do. It's personal preference. So whether they take the trip before or after kids is kinda moot. But if she is having issues thinking she can't afford it, how is she going to be when she's got a kid in daycare ($20000/yr)? and then depending on the demands on her company, what if she ends up having to pay before care, day care, and after care??
Yup. That's for 1 kid. And you have to juggle sick days, emergency Dr visits, sports etc etc.
Carrie has it right….be concerned, especially about tech jobs at the moment. Dillon if you want to go to Japan that much how about you pay the majority of the cost hmmm….nope I bet Carrie would end up coughing up the most, and that will stress her out even more. Sorry Ramit, I love you, but you ganged up on her with Dillon on this one and got it wrong…what kind of comment is “ making her partner suffer” what…..cos she won’t pay for Japan, she’s clearly not comfortable with it.
He wants her to feel relaxed about money but makes a fraction of what she does? What is he doing to make her able to feel less relaxed? Sounds like nothing, considering that he wants to spend HER money to take unnecessary trips (they could take a smaller, way less expensive trip). And if she’s making so much more, he should be making up for it some other way. What does the domestic labor split look like? Men who make significantly more than their partners expect them to do all the domestic labor, but when it’s flipped, men don’t think they should be doing more in the house. 🤔I think he needs to save for the trip himself if he really wants to go, or wait until he’s done with his PhD and making money again.
It’s also so crazy to me that he’s so comfortable spending HER money but she’s afraid to even spend $50 on a workout class for herself. He keeps saying “we can afford this trip”. No, SHE can afford this trip. In what world can someone bringing in $3k a month afford a 15k international trip just because they want to go?
They are married. One pot of money. Not his and hers.
@ one pot of money for him to spend as he pleases while she saves every penny for their future?
@@Pozoe12This is my life 😢 My husband spends like our money is unlimited. He keeps talking abt building a 40’X80’ shed. He wants someplace to putter. 🤯
I'm only an hour in, so I might update my opinion, but I feel way too much attention was placed on Carrie's anxiety around money. She has legitimate concerns. She works in a sector that is prone to layoffs. She wants to be a mother. They need to replace lead paint windows before having a baby. (Which will cost a LOT.) Will she leave work for a few months? A few years? Child care is super expensive. He will be in school another 3-4 years. Is that how long she wants to wait? I don't know where the 150K minimum and 500K maximum salary comes from, but most people with a PhD I know don't even make 150K. Their car is super old. I doubt they will feel comfortable with an unreliable vehicle when a baby arrives. That's going to put their fixed costs up, or deplete their savings. (Actually they won't have much savings left after paying for all those new windows anyway!). I guess my point is, this was a very skewed conversation. They can afford a trip to Japan, but it will set other things back. Sounds to me that Carrie wants to go on a trip, but her priority is sorting out the issue with windows, car, etc. first.
The issue might be that she resents having to delay having kids. One of them will have to cut back hours. She might not want to wait 5 more years to start a family. She will be 34 when he’s done. If she wants more than one this pushes her into a higher risk category. It may not be a dealbreaker but should be at least discussed.
Ramit and Staff did a great job selecting this couple for the show. They are in the position to learn from his teachings.
However, I would add that they should discuss their PRIORITIES and make purchase decisions in the same order as their priorities.
For example, the lead paint is a higher priority than the trip to Japan. They can’t do both at the same time. So probably they should take care of the windows FIRST and delay the trip to Japan.
If Ramit is trying to convince her that having 6 months of emergency fund is just a needless worry and the trip to Japan is a higher worry, then something has gone wrong.
I think Ramit was trying to say she should feel free to spend after she has taken care of her priorities. And she is saying that she agrees, and her too priorities are not taken care of yet.
They eat out plenty and have a nice place to live, so I don’t think she has a serious “inability to spend”.
She has a hesitation to spend when she has Top Priority concerns like big emergency fund and safety for kid taken care of.
By the way this is a big reason why so many couples are not having kids. They make almost 250k/year and the jobs/income/ financial requirements to live in safe place for a kid are tough even for them.
There is a mental load with being the major primary income provider.
Worrying: If this, then that. If a car is old, then plan for it to need fixing and possible replacement. When it happens, you’ve pre-decided what to doin advance and have a car fund ready to go.
When Dillion graduates with his PhD, then go to Japan.
Anyone else gonna ignore LED PAINT? I feel like Ramit glances over that like it's not a big deal.
As long as it's not flaking off and you don't let your kid gnaw on the windowsill, it's not a big deal. I grew up in an old house, and my parents painted latex paint over the lead paint. It's only an issue when you sand the paint.
@@melodicdeathgrlyou're exactly right, the remediations to lead paint have multiple options and any house prior to 1976 has a lead paint disclosure. lead paint has the potential to be a boy who cried wolf that attribute to fear mongering by renovators or realtors looking to push a sale.
I'm so happy for this couple!!!! They had moments of realization!!!!!!! I love seeing women become more generous and comfortable with that!! That being said, him taking on a Phd program should have been discussed WAY more it seems. I also want to add, I think Ramit should get more informed about child related costs so that he can be able to help parents and future parents a little better. He will learn so much and be surprised!!! Childcare costs, birth costs, night nurses, schooling costs, extra activities etc, all ranges within. Nothing to make people anxious, just to get more realistic. New parents need to get real about these numbers. I believe he will also understand much better that women don't just "take time off" for a few months and most of them need to go back to work pretty soon to maintain their income and careers. Anyways, as always, loved the episode!!!
I don't entertain watching an episode when a high-earning wife is being ganged upon - thank you guys for the comment and saving me from unneeded frustration.
one of my favorite episodes. you changed their lives in a big way.
Pregnancy and childbirth can be devastating on a woman's health. Women die from it everyday. Relationships where cgildren are born will never be equal because men will never carry that burden. I really hope she thinks twice about having children with him until they are on the same page. Bringing children into this now isnt a good idea. Or they need to cut their losses and find a different partner. Income for them both can go up or down out throughout the years.
Exactly. It seems like these days there isn't enough acknowledgment of the physical and emotional toll of being pregnant, giving birth, postpartum, nursing etc takes on a woman. Research has also shown how important the bonding between the mother and baby in the first 3 years is for the baby's emotional development (compared to outsourcing child care at that age). The husband here doesn't seem to know anything about this and is constraining the wife to go back to work before she and the baby may be ready to. What do they do financially if she wants to take 1-3 years off? Cost of childcare which is thousands? Saving for private school or whatever?
Yeah being the higher earner and the pregnant once is fraught with worry. They really need to think about having kids.
This is an episode that could've used a woman's perspective. I don't have kids and even I'm like, "Do you not understand the pressure of being the primary bread winner in a turbulent economy and carrying a child that will cut your ability to work?" A lot of companies look for reasons to cut new mothers.
I'm just 13 minutes in and can't stop thinking: If you are stressed about your income vanishing, why not pay of the house? Yeah... Interest in stock market might be higher than what their interest is, but reducing that level of stress might be worth giving up on a couple of thousands... They do have the money to pay it of (if the investments are not totally illiquid like stock options, that have a holding period)
Given that she is trying to optimize her money, I think she would dread every day that she made the wrong/less optimal financial decision. Not to mention the huge tax implications
@@grant30152 Fair point. That is when people do not factor in what stress does to your health. Especially US citizens should factor that in. Your medical system is so expensive!
How can she? She worries about every decision
How would paying off the house help things? If your income actually vanishes, you're far better off if you have a mortgage plus a substantial nest egg (which you can draw down to keep yourself afloat until you get your next job) than if you have no mortgage and no nest egg (but plenty of other expenses, like food and transportation and property taxes).
@ paying it off immediately means, you do not need as big of a emergency fund and it fills up rapidly. She works in tech. She wouldn't be out of a job for long.
Thank you so much! I love it as always. So much value