It has been pointed out to me that the optimal Lament combo is actually 2L1H2R, NOT 2L1H1R. Doing some rough math this doesn't change the conclusion, but makes Bequest even more obsolete. As I was testing it in the video the rotation total damage is only ~10% more. 2 1 1 = 254,945 2 1 2 = 280,872 Assuming sameish DPS time, total BUFFED optimal damage is: 2 1 1 = ~5.2 mil 2 1 2 = ~ 5.77 mil That makes Lament better than optimal bequest at 5.75 mil. EZZZZZZZZZ
Bequest is definitely not obsolete... considering one sword takes your exotic slot and another sword is reserved to 1 class lol. Poor word choice honestly. Also it's really not hard to have the mindset of "hey get Crota to the boomers so we proc surrounded" even for LFGs. I get that it's not the be all end all like everyone is saying but it's also not the complete opposite like you're saying.
Bequest Obsolete? I get consistent 6.2 - 6.4mil in 1 phase clears with Bequest. My highest in a scuff 2 phase was 7.8mil running out of ammo completely before the second pause was over, unfortunately. 13 clears yesterday. And in none of those runs I saw a Lament out dps'ing the bequest. Forget accurate math on Crota. In the field things are different. Obsolete is the wrong word.
@@borg_ukThe main reason you don't seem lament out dpsing bequest or really anything you would use is the teammates you have don't know how to use lament. I bet if you threw them on even the most optimal setup their damage would still suck. Most people just don't know how to use any damage setup more complex than holding down a trigger/left-click. Most gameplay I have seen with lament is their charging lament way too late after their regular lights, you can even see that in this video. In the video he should instead start holding down block right as he presses his second regular light rather than waiting for the meter to actually show charge. Bequest is still very good especially since you can run an exotic along side it like lumina. I just like the healing for when crota wants to move across the room and out of the wells during dmg phase.
Dude Fallen Guillotine is good wdym. Honed edge relentless strike and whirlwind is wht you want on it and the combo is 10L to get the times 10 buff and after that you only do this 5L 1H 5L 1H etc… until dmg is over i managed to get 6mil dmg with this and the buffs where a Well, and tractor and i had two void surges thts it!!
A couple of notes: • Aggressive-frame swords have a combo that involves a double heavy attack that does slightly higher DPS than all light attacks • Swords that run out of ammo within 30 seconds need to use something other than jagged edge, it’s not a fair comparison otherwise • ANY sword with relentless+whirlwind is going to beat out Bequest (no surrounded) and is an easy 1-phase if you use only light attacks. Most of the older swords have this combo including Falling Guillotine. The easiest swords to acquire this season with this combo are [Craftable] The Other Half, Death’s Razor, and Goldtusk; [Farmable] Just in Case (Season of the Deep) and Night Terror (Moon); [World] Nasreddin and Geodetic HSM • It really can’t be understated how useful Lament’s healing is. You can go in without Warlocks or Banner of War and still survive on Lament.
Two words: Monocromatic Meastro. A few swings from Goldtusk increases the damage from Gathering Storm, which increases the damage from Goldtusk the entire time it’s going. Then use a lightning grenade when that runs out to still get the MM buff. This plus Stareaters plus 3x Arc Surge + Boss Spec + Well + Tractor and my damage numbers are consistently through the roof and I never run out of ammo.
The other thing to acknowledge is the fact that Goldtusk (or Bequest) free up your exotic slot for an easy DoT option like Witherhoard, increasing your total damage without having to spend lots of time actively shooting a special weapon 👀
I love that you call out to stop banking on the optimal, because it’s so true. He walks out of well, adds start getting in the way, literally anything. I love using Thin Precipice because I can triple stack strand and have it synergize with banner and the rest of the fight (so even if I miss Crota and kill something else, at least i get banner back up!). Using weapons that fit your build and play style will always be more optimal than trying to follow a 1% streamer and dying 💪🏼 Great video!
It will inevitably do less damage, and doesnt take that much more effort to pull off optimal. We dont have to make ourselves feel better bc we dont try to be better.
To trigger the "Surrounded" perk, when the last sword guy spawns, avoid killing the ogres. If they remain alive, you should be good for DP on both bridges!
I still like Acrius for the consistency. You don't have to worry about sword tracking, don't have to worry about surrounded, you control everything yourself. Punch > shoot > reload > shoot > reload > shoot and repeat. You get through all your ammo (even when rallied with triple reserves) without any downtime.
Acrius would be better if it weren't for the fact that everything but rockets do 1.27x more dmg than base on crota but swords do 1.6X on him. Rockets however only do 1.01X which is why there so weak
Nasreddin. It's adaptive arc with the same perks as Goldtusk and surge match to good supers, and the origin trait slowly increases charge rate on swords as you do dmg
Those who are curious about fallen guillotine, I did 6.1M overall Crota Damage when we first killed him, with the following perks: Jagged Edge, Swordmaster’s Guard, Relentless Strikes, Whirlwind Blade. I’ve used the 3 light attack (for relentless to proc) and 1 heavy attack combo. You definitely need ammo finder and reserve mods, cause opposing to other frames, the vortex frame heavy uses 6 ammo, also put backup mag on the sword before using the raid banner than put boss spec after you got the ammo 👌
Also worth noting, Relentless Strikes on Goldtusk practically eliminates any ammo concerns. Not only are the reserves good to start with, but with Relentless Strikes you should always end up with a least a third of your overall ammo reserves left at the end of a DPS phase. Which should be plenty if you end up going into a second DPS phase.
One of the best things about using a sword on Crota and not, say, Acrius is that it means you've got that sword on the whole time. Swords can block. That absolutely 100% saved many lives for us on contest when Crota decided he didn't like the idea of us swapping the chalice and wanted to murder both people doing it with extreme prejudice.
Just an observation, when speaking of falling guillotine you mentioned the other vortex frame, however you were doing a 2L1H rotation. With FG, whirlwind blade plus relentless blade (i believe that's what it's called) gives you ammo back every 3rd L hit, plus you activate the extra damage for the heavy swing, so it might be worth it to check out.
Relentless happens with both light and heavy attacks. The only reason to use more light attacks is because it is more ammo efficient for long DPS phases.
I wouldn't. I think of Bequest as a situational sword. Might as well try to take advantage of the best buff. Goldtusk with RS/WB will be better in general play.
You probably didn’t test this but did you notice any difference on crafted swords after they reached level 20? They get some minor stat bumps to stats you usually can’t increase like swing speed
Surprised you didn't mention other adaptive swords with relentless & whirlwind as alternatives, i know they would haven't been the best but im sure people without lament, bequest or goldtusk would have appreciated seeing the numbers as there are a ton of relentless whirlwind swords that are fairly easy to obtain. E.g. other half, night terror, nasreddin, just in case, abide the return or caretaker.
These are the kinds videos we need. In my own experience unless your in a DAY 1 raid scenario (which is like 2 times a year) or your playing with mega sweaty one phase or boot players, a lower but more consistent option is best for damage all the time. Having the “meta” is nice but not it if ain’t reliable or practical.
In the first lament combo you showed, you can add a 2nd normal light attack, which brings the dps up. On riven for an example, it goes from 457k > 476k. The combo goes 2 charged lights > charged heavy > 2 uncharged lights > repeat (requires 1 lucent blade mod) You can also throw on a 2nd lucent blade and do 3 charged lights, but for some reason this leads to less damage (470k on riven). I don’t know why lol
@@Skarrow9The reason is that doing the 2nd light attack after the charged heavy makes the sword swipe to the left (after doing the charged heavy). The animation for swiping to the left is shorter, so ending with a left swipe lets you guard with lament faster. You only lose like 1/3 of a second. This also lets you do the combo with one lucent blade mod instead of having to use two, so extra resist mod. Not important for normal Crota, but will help on master
@@JJ-gk5tn Definitely, was just with a guy that did 7.8 mil with falling guillotine & witherhoard. We were joking that he was trying to solo him. I switched to his loadout & easily cracked 7 mil when I couldn't even get 6 with lament. It certainly helps getting those low lights their 1st clear.
For bequests or gold husk with hunters you can run foetracers and gathering storm to have 4x surges (plus the buff from the seasonal mod Monochromatic maestro)
Bequest is arc tho and legendary. Having fourthhourseman surge matches and helps dps in the beginning and for final stand assuming you are one phasing. Will also help for master mode to make the dps check a lot safer. While lament can use ikelos it’s just not the same. Lament also rips heavy ammo faster so in extended dps for either a one phase or when final stand is happening you want more ammo that bequest has
You gotta use 2 heavy 1 light on bequest (charge rate is one of its' best advantages (2 light 1 heavy takes like 32.4 seconds to empty and has far higher dps). You also need to be jumping right after the right click on the goldtusk combo to chain it, otherwise you are just wasting your time doing the aerial combo. You are doing the combo at half the speed due to this error which would make the tracking far better due to the lunges carrying you forward. The only time the goldtusk combo should struggle on crota is when he teleports (all sword will struggle in this scenario) or when he bends over, but the latter is fixed through positioning yourself to the right of his sword when falls down.
the 100% Free to play option: World Drop Nasredin gets Relentless with Surrounded OR Whirlwind. 10 impact weaker at base from Bequest but entirely usable in this fight. Really any adaptive sword is gonna be ok in this fight, considering ammo economy.
I think it’s funny that nobody is talking about the other half from dares. Considering the fact that optimal lament requires a combo wich is difficult for average players to not mess up and optimal bequest is depending on surrounded, I would highly recommend the other half with relentless strikes and whirlwind blade since it’s doing great dps and it only requires light attack spam. Besides that its not an exotic or class dependent and the ammo economy for a light attack spam with relentless strikes is way better than any other combo. And yes i am aware of the fact that optimal dps can be higher but im honestly done with people using lament with tripple surges and only putting out 2.5 mil dmg in total because they keep messing up the combo while I’m light attack spamming over 6 mil dmg.
Throne cleaver can also heavy attack from the air into another heavy attack for more burst, dunno how that would play into total damage though. 1AirH,1H,1L
Okay two things. Goldtusk does not get surrounded. And last night my clan did a crota run, we did the six (same class) warlock challenge. One strand one nova and the rest wells. I was a well. Bequest with surrounded (probably not procced as we baited him to spawn) and witherhord up top. Three laments and one spin to win (I'm not sure which one but does it really matter?) along with a tractor cannon. I had 6.2 million and the next highest guy had 4.6. The bottom guy (surely our tractor) had three point something, probably one of the damage supers. I know your math did not take witherhord into account but it doesn't add THAT much.
Any notes on how guillotine/death's razor actually perform? Mainly just curious if its the best legendary sword for class other then hunter if you are not using surrounded bequest.
@@Skarrow9 I know this isn't meant to be min-max meta stuff, i'd just like to add a little something for the vortex frames in particular. You'll want to only use heavy if the sword charge is full and optimally once you reach 5 whirlwind stacks. ( though many also just start with heavy, since by the time you reach 5 stacks the charge is full again ) Vortex heavys chew through ammo and sword heavys in general do quite little damage unless the block "charge" is completely full. Like the one before me said, even just all light attacks guillotine can one phase if you add the supers, buffs and debuffs that you'll find in standard team comps. Surrounded bequest is slightly stronger but also requires setup and it's very hard to get 100% uptime. Imo use Lament if you want the healing and don't need the exo slot, otherwise just get any legendary sword with relentless + whirlwind to use the exo slot for comfort primarys, add clear exos or stuff like witherhoard, ( though witherhoard in particular is limited to 1 player, max 2 with puddle ) It's more than enough to one phase if enough of your team knows what they're doing.
@@I3reakingYour info is extremely outdated, sword charge doesn’t need to be full to do full damage anymore and doing a heavy at whirlwind x5 isn’t the most optimal since whirlwind needs to stack to 10 for the full benefit.
@@warv6552 Apparently it doesn't need to be full anymore so that's on me for not finding that one change ( if it wasn't a stealth change again ) but it's still bad to constantly spam vortex, since it can and will deal like half dmg if you don't have any charge.( which does happen in the video here as well ) The reason to vortex at 5 stacks is so that you're faster on 10 stacks and not because 5x is the maximum amount. Guillotine had come way too short in this and it's by far not as bad as it was pointed out to be, it can consistently hit very high damage on crota and doesn't need a setup like Bequest.
thoughts on: Just in case? its an adaptive frame from season of the deep, can be focused at the sonar station can roll relentless/whirlwind, since deep engrams are so common thought it might not be too rough to target farm?
Before this video came out, I heard that surrounded swords were meta, so I got into some sword research. Found out that goldtusk actually had the same impact but was twice as fast, so it should've had higher dps. Glad my intuition was right and got one crafted and leveled
Is the solar sword from season of defiance any good? I think it’s called caretaker. It can also get relentless strikes & surrounded. Would it compete with bequest?
The other half is the best option for warlocks. Jagged, sword master, relentless, whirlwind. Crown splitter for titans. Pops up from time to time at banshee. You want relentless and whirlwind on that too. At the very least whirlwind.
For those who aren't on hunter but on titan. Crownsplitter with wirlwind blade and relented strikes is good. I would only use it if you already have it though because it is only possible to get by pure rng in the world lootpool.
as a person who does LFG a lot i come to realize as long as your IQ is above room temp. You can put out 6 mill damage. Your LFG group will always have 1-2 ppl doing 600k if your lucky and still have to 2 or 3 phase.
As Im relatively new to optimal DPS building, how would deterministic chaos with void surges do over someone running tractor as far as debuffing the boss?
In my case, Lament's tracking always ruins my DPS, and I can never get surrounded to proc on Bequest. On my Hunter I use Goldtusk, but what's the next best when I'm running Warlock or Titan?
I have been using as a void hunter Geodetic Hsm With Destabilizing rounds And I have found that its easier to activate with no kills and I would like to see if you think it a good option that no one it’s utilizing . Thanks Great information.
Does counter-attack on death’s razor or crown-splitter make those frames a bit better against crota? Thought the blocking was nice for survivability, but maybe less optimal
I end up liking Bequest with Vorpal a lot just because I value the consistency of always having the damage buff active, which makes it pair really well with swap specials like Witherhoard since you can pop that off and go right back to swinging and you don't have to rebuild stacks of any kind like you would have to for a perk like Whirlwind Blade. (And I personally dislike Surrounded for just how situational it is though I recognize it is a very powerful buff if you can get it to work.)
Skarrow: "What LFG teams gonna use Lumina?" Me who got kicked from LFGs BEFORE even starting cause I used Lumina: LFGs are afraid of Lumina players, ngl
Why does no one test double heavy on throne cleaver? Jump slam, then slam again immediately, followed by 3 lights repeat… I think that rotation should change your lineup
I came for Throne Cleaver and satified with the numbers. Use my own sword against Crota. Just need to craft one for more damage instead of general use. Plus not fussed about Bequest. Much prefer the Aggressive Frames over every other type.
I noticed that some heavy attacks that were made were not fully charged, from what i used to do was wait for full charge then use heavy, so 4L1H and thats with guillotine, idk about the others
For lament you're supposed do 2L 1H 2R and if you hold your block and s you can immediately go back to revved after doing the 2R it makes a bit of a difference not a crazy amount tho
that doesnt make any sense, after 3 rev lights you have 9x banshees wail for the rev heavy. A 4th rev light wouldnt do you any more and no point@@Zalified
Damage with guillotine is optimal but heavily depends on its user. For instance: i can out dps my entire team most of the time because i know how to balance my heavies. The goal is to end the damage phase and run out of ammo at the same time. Do mostly light, then throw a heavy swing here and a heavy swing there. This also completely removes the need for lucent blade mods which many people use with lament.
I've been using a Crown Splitter(legendary Titan specific) with honed edge, relentless strikes, whirlwind blade, impact masterwork, and a boss spec. With tractor, 2 void surges, no banner of war, and spotty wells(sometimes he breaks them or just steps out) I've been averaging around 7.4ish million(upon death) with optimal damage phases.
It has been pointed out to me that the optimal Lament combo is actually 2L1H2R, NOT 2L1H1R. Doing some rough math this doesn't change the conclusion, but makes Bequest even more obsolete.
As I was testing it in the video the rotation total damage is only ~10% more.
2 1 1 = 254,945
2 1 2 = 280,872
Assuming sameish DPS time, total BUFFED optimal damage is:
2 1 1 = ~5.2 mil
2 1 2 = ~ 5.77 mil
That makes Lament better than optimal bequest at 5.75 mil. EZZZZZZZZZ
Bequest is definitely not obsolete... considering one sword takes your exotic slot and another sword is reserved to 1 class lol. Poor word choice honestly. Also it's really not hard to have the mindset of "hey get Crota to the boomers so we proc surrounded" even for LFGs. I get that it's not the be all end all like everyone is saying but it's also not the complete opposite like you're saying.
Bequest Obsolete?
I get consistent 6.2 - 6.4mil in 1 phase clears with Bequest. My highest in a scuff 2 phase was 7.8mil running out of ammo completely before the second pause was over, unfortunately.
13 clears yesterday. And in none of those runs I saw a Lament out dps'ing the bequest.
Forget accurate math on Crota. In the field things are different.
Obsolete is the wrong word.
@@borg_ukThe main reason you don't seem lament out dpsing bequest or really anything you would use is the teammates you have don't know how to use lament. I bet if you threw them on even the most optimal setup their damage would still suck. Most people just don't know how to use any damage setup more complex than holding down a trigger/left-click.
Most gameplay I have seen with lament is their charging lament way too late after their regular lights, you can even see that in this video. In the video he should instead start holding down block right as he presses his second regular light rather than waiting for the meter to actually show charge.
Bequest is still very good especially since you can run an exotic along side it like lumina. I just like the healing for when crota wants to move across the room and out of the wells during dmg phase.
Dude Fallen Guillotine is good wdym.
Honed edge relentless strike and whirlwind is wht you want on it and the combo is 10L to get the times 10 buff and after that you only do this 5L 1H 5L 1H etc… until dmg is over i managed to get 6mil dmg with this and the buffs where a Well, and tractor and i had two void surges thts it!!
Where is crown splitter
Legit is best legendary sword in game
Tbh I would’ve appreciated a breakdown of falling guillotine for those of us that got it a long time ago
Does more than lament and less than crownsplitter or the DSC sword
It’s bad. DPS and total dmg is crap compared to every other sword frame, only beating Caster frames.
Heavy ammo runs out, not worth it sadly
Did you watch the video? There was footage of it running out of ammo and he said it clearly.
Because he was using it wrong.
A couple of notes:
• Aggressive-frame swords have a combo that involves a double heavy attack that does slightly higher DPS than all light attacks
• Swords that run out of ammo within 30 seconds need to use something other than jagged edge, it’s not a fair comparison otherwise
• ANY sword with relentless+whirlwind is going to beat out Bequest (no surrounded) and is an easy 1-phase if you use only light attacks. Most of the older swords have this combo including Falling Guillotine. The easiest swords to acquire this season with this combo are [Craftable] The Other Half, Death’s Razor, and Goldtusk; [Farmable] Just in Case (Season of the Deep) and Night Terror (Moon); [World] Nasreddin and Geodetic HSM
• It really can’t be understated how useful Lament’s healing is. You can go in without Warlocks or Banner of War and still survive on Lament.
How do you do the double heavy?
@@theredpillneo2296Jump, then heavy, then heavy again.
@@tnishamonz2152 appreciate it👌🏻
Was gunna ask about Deaths Razor as I have that crafted and not bequest.
abide the return from dreaming city also rolls relentless whirlwind. farmable at blind well.
Two words: Monocromatic Meastro. A few swings from Goldtusk increases the damage from Gathering Storm, which increases the damage from Goldtusk the entire time it’s going. Then use a lightning grenade when that runs out to still get the MM buff. This plus Stareaters plus 3x Arc Surge + Boss Spec + Well + Tractor and my damage numbers are consistently through the roof and I never run out of ammo.
Completely forgot about maestro. Thanks for the tip
Another word for you Foetracer. The buffs stack and its easy to proc.
You can also do this with bequest.
@@maciv33it doesnt stack with surges right?
2 words: foetracer helmet
For throne cleaver, you can jumb right before using heavy to chain 2 in a row (assuming you have full charge), so you can have way more total DMG
You can also use crown splitter because it has relentless strikes since he was running out of ammo before the end of the phase.
Then you put on 3x lucent blade then 2xheavy attack 2xlight repeat
@@LumiNexusno because this dont have enhanced perks
@@davigomesantunes6097 the titan swords are outdated for dps now but even if they weren't, none of the enhanced perks effect dps besides surrounded
The other thing to acknowledge is the fact that Goldtusk (or Bequest) free up your exotic slot for an easy DoT option like Witherhoard, increasing your total damage without having to spend lots of time actively shooting a special weapon 👀
Yeah I kind of allude to that at the end, but definitely a plus!
It also builds your abilities and can allow for a potential 2nd gernade
You could also do something like RDM Fourth Horseman since they're both arc (and you're a hunter).
Yup I use fourth horseman
@@Skarrow9you can also use lumina for the extra 15% dmg buff that overrides well.
I love that you call out to stop banking on the optimal, because it’s so true. He walks out of well, adds start getting in the way, literally anything.
I love using Thin Precipice because I can triple stack strand and have it synergize with banner and the rest of the fight (so even if I miss Crota and kill something else, at least i get banner back up!).
Using weapons that fit your build and play style will always be more optimal than trying to follow a 1% streamer and dying 💪🏼
Great video!
It will inevitably do less damage, and doesnt take that much more effort to pull off optimal. We dont have to make ourselves feel better bc we dont try to be better.
To trigger the "Surrounded" perk, when the last sword guy spawns, avoid killing the ogres. If they remain alive, you should be good for DP on both bridges!
I still like Acrius for the consistency. You don't have to worry about sword tracking, don't have to worry about surrounded, you control everything yourself. Punch > shoot > reload > shoot > reload > shoot and repeat. You get through all your ammo (even when rallied with triple reserves) without any downtime.
Sword tracking isn’t really a problem here
It’s just slightly worse because swords have an instrinsic buff against him but it definitely has some pros
You mean punch, shoot shoot shoot. Can shoot 3 times after punch.
Acrius would be better if it weren't for the fact that everything but rockets do 1.27x more dmg than base on crota but swords do 1.6X on him. Rockets however only do 1.01X which is why there so weak
That shit is expensive tho for someone like me who started destiny recently and short on spoils
Nasreddin. It's adaptive arc with the same perks as Goldtusk and surge match to good supers, and the origin trait slowly increases charge rate on swords as you do dmg
Looking for this comment.
was also wondering how the two compare, i have both with exactly the same perks
Those who are curious about fallen guillotine, I did 6.1M overall Crota Damage when we first killed him, with the following perks: Jagged Edge, Swordmaster’s Guard, Relentless Strikes, Whirlwind Blade. I’ve used the 3 light attack (for relentless to proc) and 1 heavy attack combo. You definitely need ammo finder and reserve mods, cause opposing to other frames, the vortex frame heavy uses 6 ammo, also put backup mag on the sword before using the raid banner than put boss spec after you got the ammo 👌
Seeing goldtusk being good for something just made my day. Quickfang was a weapon I always wanted to be good so this is sick
Also worth noting, Relentless Strikes on Goldtusk practically eliminates any ammo concerns. Not only are the reserves good to start with, but with Relentless Strikes you should always end up with a least a third of your overall ammo reserves left at the end of a DPS phase. Which should be plenty if you end up going into a second DPS phase.
This is what the destiny community actually needs: real advice for the AVERAGE player, so they can pull off ACCEPTABLE dps and NOT DIE
Yeah I don’t like running lfg’s where they kick you because you don’t have divinity.
@@TheRMF1no sure what lfgs you are joining, on why they would expect just you to have div
@@TheAcidicMolotov expecially on Crota 🤣
One of the best things about using a sword on Crota and not, say, Acrius is that it means you've got that sword on the whole time. Swords can block. That absolutely 100% saved many lives for us on contest when Crota decided he didn't like the idea of us swapping the chalice and wanted to murder both people doing it with extreme prejudice.
Just an observation, when speaking of falling guillotine you mentioned the other vortex frame, however you were doing a 2L1H rotation. With FG, whirlwind blade plus relentless blade (i believe that's what it's called) gives you ammo back every 3rd L hit, plus you activate the extra damage for the heavy swing, so it might be worth it to check out.
Relentless happens with both light and heavy attacks. The only reason to use more light attacks is because it is more ammo efficient for long DPS phases.
@@isaacbee1and x10 does wat more damage than x3
Remember, bequest is legendary sword, you can use riskrunner on energy slot in order to tank crota more, cause he deals arc damage
riskrunner only works when it's out in hand not while using sword
Would having vorpal on bequest be a better choice than surrounded? For more consistency?
I wouldn't. I think of Bequest as a situational sword. Might as well try to take advantage of the best buff. Goldtusk with RS/WB will be better in general play.
Nah. Just bait crota to one of the bridges before dps and save some adds. Surrounded will be up for sure.
Am I missing something about why crown splitter wasn't checked?
The aerial combo for goldtusk works if you master the blade and guard before the slam
So, for my raid teams I usually get, goldtusk would be the best because trying to jam crota in a corner so I can do a bit more damage cam get annoying
You probably didn’t test this but did you notice any difference on crafted swords after they reached level 20? They get some minor stat bumps to stats you usually can’t increase like swing speed
Surprised you didn't mention other adaptive swords with relentless & whirlwind as alternatives, i know they would haven't been the best but im sure people without lament, bequest or goldtusk would have appreciated seeing the numbers as there are a ton of relentless whirlwind swords that are fairly easy to obtain.
E.g. other half, night terror, nasreddin, just in case, abide the return or caretaker.
The other half is craftable, so it should do better with its enchanced perks, right? Relentless + whirlwind/vorpal 🤔
@@D_JoyBoy117Enhanced just gives more forgiveness. The perks do the same damage
These are the kinds videos we need. In my own experience unless your in a DAY 1 raid scenario (which is like 2 times a year) or your playing with mega sweaty one phase or boot players, a lower but more consistent option is best for damage all the time. Having the “meta” is nice but not it if ain’t reliable or practical.
In the first lament combo you showed, you can add a 2nd normal light attack, which brings the dps up. On riven for an example, it goes from 457k > 476k.
The combo goes 2 charged lights > charged heavy > 2 uncharged lights > repeat (requires 1 lucent blade mod)
You can also throw on a 2nd lucent blade and do 3 charged lights, but for some reason this leads to less damage (470k on riven). I don’t know why lol
How would adding an additional lowest damage attack of the combo increase DPS? I'll have to do testing, but I don't really buy that.
@@Skarrow9The reason is that doing the 2nd light attack after the charged heavy makes the sword swipe to the left (after doing the charged heavy).
The animation for swiping to the left is shorter, so ending with a left swipe lets you guard with lament faster. You only lose like 1/3 of a second.
This also lets you do the combo with one lucent blade mod instead of having to use two, so extra resist mod. Not important for normal Crota, but will help on master
@@starlightrainsWas just about to say this exact thing, thank you! I thought it would be more common knowledge, but I guess not!
Good to know. I play around with this! @@starlightrains
I actually can't figure out why 3 charged lights > charged heavy > 2 lights is worse than 2-1-2
Well u forgot something very important
While using legendary sword over lament u can use witherhoard and do even more damage
Na lament and fusion does way more buddy. Its still the go to.
@@dvb8637 well I did about 7 mil damage on crota with bequest + witherhoard + super so I can't complain
Buddy !
@@JJ-gk5tn Definitely, was just with a guy that did 7.8 mil with falling guillotine & witherhoard. We were joking that he was trying to solo him. I switched to his loadout & easily cracked 7 mil when I couldn't even get 6 with lament. It certainly helps getting those low lights their 1st clear.
@@Megasty15 that's what I'm talking about also u just need to use the light attack Wich is very easier to use then lanent
Def worth doing but he can only take damage from 2 withhoards at a time. One on him and one on the floor. So adjust accordingly
For bequests or gold husk with hunters you can run foetracers and gathering storm to have 4x surges (plus the buff from the seasonal mod Monochromatic maestro)
Any chance you could test crown splitter and the other half both with relentless and whirlwind?
Did you not add boss spec?
Bequest is arc tho and legendary. Having fourthhourseman surge matches and helps dps in the beginning and for final stand assuming you are one phasing. Will also help for master mode to make the dps check a lot safer. While lament can use ikelos it’s just not the same. Lament also rips heavy ammo faster so in extended dps for either a one phase or when final stand is happening you want more ammo that bequest has
Is monochromatic maestro a good option in those equations?
im sure it couldnt hurt
It's good you said this because a lot of people use lament, but they don't know how to optimize the strat so there damage ends up being median.
Most average players can't manage the optimal Lament rotation. Lament also pushes Crota like crazy, so it's hard to keep him in the well.
Facts
Yup. Bequest requires minimal set up and is braindead easy to use with light attacks. Plus you can pair with witherhoard/lumina for even more damage.
You gotta use 2 heavy 1 light on bequest (charge rate is one of its' best advantages (2 light 1 heavy takes like 32.4 seconds to empty and has far higher dps). You also need to be jumping right after the right click on the goldtusk combo to chain it, otherwise you are just wasting your time doing the aerial combo. You are doing the combo at half the speed due to this error which would make the tracking far better due to the lunges carrying you forward. The only time the goldtusk combo should struggle on crota is when he teleports (all sword will struggle in this scenario) or when he bends over, but the latter is fixed through positioning yourself to the right of his sword when falls down.
the 100% Free to play option: World Drop Nasredin gets Relentless with Surrounded OR Whirlwind.
10 impact weaker at base from Bequest but entirely usable in this fight. Really any adaptive sword is gonna be ok in this fight, considering ammo economy.
@2:26 instead of leeway was weeway said?
I think it’s funny that nobody is talking about the other half from dares. Considering the fact that optimal lament requires a combo wich is difficult for average players to not mess up and optimal bequest is depending on surrounded, I would highly recommend the other half with relentless strikes and whirlwind blade since it’s doing great dps and it only requires light attack spam. Besides that its not an exotic or class dependent and the ammo economy for a light attack spam with relentless strikes is way better than any other combo. And yes i am aware of the fact that optimal dps can be higher but im honestly done with people using lament with tripple surges and only putting out 2.5 mil dmg in total because they keep messing up the combo while I’m light attack spamming over 6 mil dmg.
Is it worth it to use flash counter for a debuff?
Throne cleaver can also heavy attack from the air into another heavy attack for more burst, dunno how that would play into total damage though.
1AirH,1H,1L
Okay two things. Goldtusk does not get surrounded. And last night my clan did a crota run, we did the six (same class) warlock challenge. One strand one nova and the rest wells. I was a well. Bequest with surrounded (probably not procced as we baited him to spawn) and witherhord up top. Three laments and one spin to win (I'm not sure which one but does it really matter?) along with a tractor cannon. I had 6.2 million and the next highest guy had 4.6. The bottom guy (surely our tractor) had three point something, probably one of the damage supers. I know your math did not take witherhord into account but it doesn't add THAT much.
Goldtusk might do even better with the monochromatic maestro artifact perk, right ? Since most hunters usually go for stareater+gathering storm
Considering only one can do it at once blade barrage and lament is probably the play
At 10:20 you say you multiply bequest damage * 1.41 for surrounded, but goldtusk only gets a 1.3 multiplier for surrounded - did i miss something?
I misspoke. Goldtusk doesn't get surrounded, it gets whirlwind blade which is 30%!
Where do the the other half and half thrush come in?
Any notes on how guillotine/death's razor actually perform? Mainly just curious if its the best legendary sword for class other then hunter if you are not using surrounded bequest.
I believe Death's Razor was around like 1.75 million total optimal damage completely not buffed. So still below the top 3 and worse ammo economy
Just use falling guillotine with all light attacks. You can mix in 2 or 3 heavy if you really want to. It's easiest one phase crota.
@@Skarrow9 I know this isn't meant to be min-max meta stuff, i'd just like to add a little something for the vortex frames in particular. You'll want to only use heavy if the sword charge is full and optimally once you reach 5 whirlwind stacks. ( though many also just start with heavy, since by the time you reach 5 stacks the charge is full again ) Vortex heavys chew through ammo and sword heavys in general do quite little damage unless the block "charge" is completely full. Like the one before me said, even just all light attacks guillotine can one phase if you add the supers, buffs and debuffs that you'll find in standard team comps. Surrounded bequest is slightly stronger but also requires setup and it's very hard to get 100% uptime. Imo use Lament if you want the healing and don't need the exo slot, otherwise just get any legendary sword with relentless + whirlwind to use the exo slot for comfort primarys, add clear exos or stuff like witherhoard, ( though witherhoard in particular is limited to 1 player, max 2 with puddle ) It's more than enough to one phase if enough of your team knows what they're doing.
@@I3reakingYour info is extremely outdated, sword charge doesn’t need to be full to do full damage anymore and doing a heavy at whirlwind x5 isn’t the most optimal since whirlwind needs to stack to 10 for the full benefit.
@@warv6552 Apparently it doesn't need to be full anymore so that's on me for not finding that one change ( if it wasn't a stealth change again ) but it's still bad to constantly spam vortex, since it can and will deal like half dmg if you don't have any charge.( which does happen in the video here as well ) The reason to vortex at 5 stacks is so that you're faster on 10 stacks and not because 5x is the maximum amount. Guillotine had come way too short in this and it's by far not as bad as it was pointed out to be, it can consistently hit very high damage on crota and doesn't need a setup like Bequest.
Am I missing something? With lament I can get off 5 lights before a heavy while charged
@Skarrow9 what about The Other Half? iS IT NIT GOOD FOR DPS?
How is Zephyr? It has relentless and cold steal. Is any good or just trash? I'll try to come back if I had tried it.
Vortex frames aren't worth it after factoring in the 10 hit perk damage buff?
thoughts on: Just in case? its an adaptive frame from season of the deep, can be focused at the sonar station can roll relentless/whirlwind, since deep engrams are so common thought it might not be too rough to target farm?
did you activate Flash Counter on Throne Cleaver?
As someone who has fallen guillotine can I get the best dps set up for it?
So when playing Warlock or Titan what should we be using instead of goldtusk?
th-cam.com/video/L9aotkTSiqM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=e2GjAYA4MvakxJvE fast forward to 13:40
This was expertly done. Goldtusk ftw! Would have never used it but now will only use it lol. Thanks for making this.
I better see you top dps with it our next run then 😈
Lets Go BABAY!
Before this video came out, I heard that surrounded swords were meta, so I got into some sword research. Found out that goldtusk actually had the same impact but was twice as fast, so it should've had higher dps. Glad my intuition was right and got one crafted and leveled
Could you see if it's worth dumping a mag of Merciless into Crota at the start of each damage phase over just using a sword the whole time?
where do i get Goldtusk drops again?
So I’ve been using Lament wrong? Or am I supposed to keep light attacking until I get the rev back up and then do the combo again each time?
The most optimal combo is actually 2 charged Light 1 Charged Heavy and 2 regular lights. With lucent blade you should be able to chain it endlessly
Guess I’ll run Goldtusk with 4th Horseman on Hunter and still Bequest on all the others tbh.
Witherhoard can also be a good alternative for some free tick damage
What about adaptive frames with a good perk combo?
This season just use the sword that matches your subclass element. Monochromatic stacks on surges for an extra 10% (34% total)
Why you do all lights for all swords but faling guilotine not?
Is the solar sword from season of defiance any good? I think it’s called caretaker. It can also get relentless strikes & surrounded. Would it compete with bequest?
What about the other half with relentless and whirlwind? Would it be similar to goldtusk?
The other half is the best option for warlocks. Jagged, sword master, relentless, whirlwind. Crown splitter for titans. Pops up from time to time at banshee. You want relentless and whirlwind on that too. At the very least whirlwind.
For those who aren't on hunter but on titan. Crownsplitter with wirlwind blade and relented strikes is good. I would only use it if you already have it though because it is only possible to get by pure rng in the world lootpool.
I can use my bonk sword? Say less
as a person who does LFG a lot i come to realize as long as your IQ is above room temp. You can put out 6 mill damage. Your LFG group will always have 1-2 ppl doing 600k if your lucky and still have to 2 or 3 phase.
where can i farm / focus goldtusk guys ?
Have you tried throne cleaver with surrounded?
Throne Cleaver hits worse base damage than Bequest, so even with surrounded it'll be worse than a Bequest with surrounded
As Im relatively new to optimal DPS building, how would deterministic chaos with void surges do over someone running tractor as far as debuffing the boss?
Tractor is the easiest 30% debuff in the game, where most other debuff sources are 15%. So Tractor wins that.
Did this account for the disparity that bequest has between damage number and actual damage to the boss health bar?
You're sleeping on Death Razor. That origin trait carries hard
Not enough ammo imo and worse overall damage than lament/bequest/goldtusk
So deaths razor not good? I've been farming for the patterns and only need 1 more ...
In my case, Lament's tracking always ruins my DPS, and I can never get surrounded to proc on Bequest. On my Hunter I use Goldtusk, but what's the next best when I'm running Warlock or Titan?
I have been using as a void hunter
Geodetic Hsm
With
Destabilizing rounds
And I have found that its easier to activate with no kills and I would like to see if you think it a good option that no one it’s utilizing .
Thanks
Great information.
It's funny, Falling Guillotine is what I use as its just easier. I nova bomb, use grenade and then sword, and I normally out DPS the whole team.
Does counter-attack on death’s razor or crown-splitter make those frames a bit better against crota? Thought the blocking was nice for survivability, but maybe less optimal
Any tractor shotgun swappers?
Can you increase damage on vortex swords by spinning your character while using heavy attack?
I end up liking Bequest with Vorpal a lot just because I value the consistency of always having the damage buff active, which makes it pair really well with swap specials like Witherhoard since you can pop that off and go right back to swinging and you don't have to rebuild stacks of any kind like you would have to for a perk like Whirlwind Blade. (And I personally dislike Surrounded for just how situational it is though I recognize it is a very powerful buff if you can get it to work.)
So what would be the best legendary options for warlock and titan?
Whats an effective framrate for lament?
I cap at 72 and it’s usually fine!
What about nesradine, dosent the origine trait make it really good because more sword energy?
Skarrow: "What LFG teams gonna use Lumina?"
Me who got kicked from LFGs BEFORE even starting cause I used Lumina: LFGs are afraid of Lumina players, ngl
What about bequest vorpal
where i can obtain goldtusk?
Why does no one test double heavy on throne cleaver? Jump slam, then slam again immediately, followed by 3 lights repeat… I think that rotation should change your lineup
What about crown splitter with vorpal and boss spec?
How can I get Goldtusk?
Not testing Falling Guillotine despite Banshee selling the 5/5 roll a couple months ago…??
You know I wonder yes jagged edge is good but is it really wise to have more damage for less ammo ultimately?
How much health does Crota have before and after final stand?
i wonder if crown splitter would be good with vorpal and relentless?
Just curious why you choose such poor perks on the Death Razor for your testing?
How about [Crown Splitter] with Vorpal/Relentless ?
I came for Throne Cleaver and satified with the numbers. Use my own sword against Crota. Just need to craft one for more damage instead of general use. Plus not fussed about Bequest. Much prefer the Aggressive Frames over every other type.
Lament is the best option and i dont even need to watch the video. I CONSISTENTLY do over 7 million damage.
Nice, gonna enjoy using goldtusk on all my characters......oh wait.
I noticed that some heavy attacks that were made were not fully charged, from what i used to do was wait for full charge then use heavy, so 4L1H and thats with guillotine, idk about the others
For lament you're supposed do 2L 1H 2R and if you hold your block and s you can immediately go back to revved after doing the 2R it makes a bit of a difference not a crazy amount tho
lament is 4 rev lights then heavy
that doesnt make any sense, after 3 rev lights you have 9x banshees wail for the rev heavy. A 4th rev light wouldnt do you any more and no point@@Zalified
Damage with guillotine is optimal but heavily depends on its user.
For instance: i can out dps my entire team most of the time because i know how to balance my heavies. The goal is to end the damage phase and run out of ammo at the same time. Do mostly light, then throw a heavy swing here and a heavy swing there. This also completely removes the need for lucent blade mods which many people use with lament.
Appreciate the hard work gone into this.
I've been using a Crown Splitter(legendary Titan specific) with honed edge, relentless strikes, whirlwind blade, impact masterwork, and a boss spec. With tractor, 2 void surges, no banner of war, and spotty wells(sometimes he breaks them or just steps out) I've been averaging around 7.4ish million(upon death) with optimal damage phases.
Wait what about worldline? Isn’t it just as good as lament now?