I have one big issue with this episode. The Carla scene. In and of itself, it's fine. It works. It's the influence of The Woman. But this scene doesn't exist in isolation. And coming off of The Church on Ruby Road, which features a similar scene (playing into some problematic tropes about foster parents), it feels like we're getting this perpetual idea that without Ruby in her life, Carla would actually be a terrible person.
This isn't unique for Carla though. In RtD1 he constantly was harsh to the maternal characters as well. He wrote Jackie, Sylvia, and Francine as all being pretty awful to their daughters. Yeah, in hindsight we have the Jackie Tyler memes and people like her, but she really wasn't written in a flattering light. It's far more prominent than the stuff Moffat is criticized for, imo. But for a variety of reasons this issue is just sorta ignored. (He's better at PR, his era happened in a slightly different cultural context, people who grew up with the show started using certain critical tool sets around the Moffat era but not around RtD1, it was less popular in America, people got annoyed at Sherlock for some unearthly reason, etc etc.)
@@najawin8348 I get that, but given that Carla seems to be a lesbian (Ruby mentions one of Carla's previous GFs, the whole shed conversation etc.) it may come off worse in this case.
@@TheGerkuman You're reading waaaayyyy to much into the girlfriend comment. That's slang even for just female friends. I guess I could see the shed conversation, but I think it's still a stretch on its own.
I really disliked that the people at the pub took immediate offense when Ruby asks if she can pay with her phone. Even in big cities, not everywhere accepts tap cards and phone pay systems (my local Walmart does not have that option, for goodness sake!), so asking is not some slight on anyone, especially when the person has no other way to pay. That tainted that whole scene for me, especially upon rewatching the episode. I also don’t like what you took issue with as well.
He was trying to land a joke about them being in a village and ruby thinking they are out of touch and backwards but he gave no setup for said joke and it landed completely flat...to top it off its a time travel show so the audience immediately went down the thought process of is this the 1920's or something lol
@@charg1nmalaz0r51 I don't think Ruby thought they were out of touch or backwards at all. Ruby was surprised/confused when the woman acted as though she didn't realize phones had the ability to make credit/debit card payments. The joke about outsiders believing the Welsh have witchcraft or magical beliefs would have landed better without the phone payment bit before it.
I think, within the context of the text, the actions Ruby took re 10:25 onwards were pretty plausibly ethical. (They were also pretty plausibly unethical, but it depends a lot on specific things and the normative system you want to apply to the situation.) But surely that just raises the most obvious question, right? Why was Ruby in this situation in the first place? The story isn't real life. RtD wrote it. He didn't have to write that. Just because it makes sense within the fiction of the work doesn't mean that it justifies the artistic decision. There've been other concerns this series, like with the Goblins in TCoRR, or some messy political messaging in SB. idk, maybe he should hire a sensitivity reader or two, as much as he complains about the younger writers these days.
To me, it makes sense if she couldn't do anything in the realm of exposing or taking down Roger right away, but it would've helped to see her do something other than just apologizing for not doing anything but there isn't quite time to show that- which emphasizes why it shouldn't have been put in, because there's not enough time or space to factor in something like that.
@@ProtagonistIvy My understanding is that the scripts for this series were longer than what was put to screen, a good 5-15 minutes was cut. Not sure if that impacts this plot line. But it was pretty impactful to, say, the ending in Boom.
can see how disturbing Ruby delaying her action against Gwiliam has been for people. I suppose that one reason for her delay is that The Doctor had described him as Britain's worst Prime Minister. So it is possible that Rudy had to wait to the moment he had actually become Prime Minister
The terror and mystery part of the story was fine until she found companionship with the ghost who was ruining her life. I really don't understand why that happened in terms of the characters or the storytelling. Foreboding is part of a good horror story but that was discarded in favour of unexplained positivity.
She did have some sort of memory of what happened; or at least a hint that she does somewhere in her mind cause she counts it among the times she has been to whales before. At the start she had only been there twice before, but at the end the line is she has been there 3 times before listing the first two times the same as before then she stammers and counts now as the third as if her mind is trying to make since of why she said 3rd time.
thanks for this review, i agreed with a lot of it, but in paticular the bit at the end. it seemed like a 'kicking puppies' cheap way to show just how evil the prime minister was, that was executed thoughtlessly with no care at all for the implications it holds about ruby's complacency. doctor who is about defeating monsters and saving the day, but the companion can't do anything in the face of a monster a lot of the viewers have actually encountered in their life? i also loved the vibes of the episode, and thought the opening was so strong. then it just got frustrating.
I did not like this episode. It began very strong. Spooky woman following her after they broke a weird circle was good. The wales people mocking her for superstition was fun. Then everyone talking to the woman running away was very good, too. A build up of mystery and all. But as with many mysteries, the payoff fell short. It began when her mom ran away. More precisely, when she later was on the phone with her mom, and nobody adressed the obvious "what did she say to you"-question. Before that, people just ran away and they never talked to her again. The call with her mother felt off. Then the years began to spring by. Quite the clear sign for "this is all basicly an illusion" which is for me a sign that I do not need to pay attention anymore, since it all will be inconsequential in the end by some reveal. Using her follower to depose an abusive and likely genocidal asshole was a nice idea. But the asshole did not have enough build up to be an impactfull payoff for the episode. Especially since this achievement will be, as we already know, retconned anyway, so it already feels like nothing to me. Then, the final payoff! She herself is the old woman! That explains... nothing. Neither why it happened how it worked, what this now retconned dream was supposed to accomplish. So, we have a mystery with no explanation and an inconsequential dream sequence... Not a great episode tbh. Though, it had a good start and some nice moments. So not terrible. But would not watch again.
I wanted to like it, it was a really good for a majority of the episode but then it just wraps up with no real conclusion, no explanations as to why everyone is running away including her mother and Kate Bishop... why would they run away especially from just an older version of Ruby herself?! It makes no sense, It's not properly explained. Why did the Doctor disappear? The Doctor used to be this powerful character now he seems powerless against these magical forces. This is lazy writing IMO... Doctor Who needs to go back to being sci-fi not fantasy. I can't recognize this show any more.
I thought this episode would have been fine in Buffy the Vampire Slayer or Sabrina the Teenage Witch. They have long series that can include a dead end mystery episode.
Man i didnt even realise it until watching this, but this episode really does feel like it was made for the young adults right now and the journey i and a lot of people i know are going on. From that point in our lives where we feel everyone that we once knew has left us and we don't even know why, but we have to push on and enter this new stage in life, depression kicks in, we're a bit more dispondant to the people around us, we become fearful of the world around us and the powers controlling our lives that we decide to become the change and say no, you move. That's at least my interpretation. The journey into young adulthood is so different from what it once was and its amazing the Russell gets it, sympathises and can channel it so powerfully through Ruby. Sometimes a comfort show can ve comforting because it shows you a better world you can escape to, this for me is comforting because it shows the reality and the universal experience, and that we can make things better i guess.
@ProtagonistIvy Of course, feel honoured tbh. I did comment this with my twitter handle and the name of my Doctor Who channel, but I think that comment got hidden by TH-cam or something, they hate that sort of thing which I suppose makes sense.
I'm wondering whether Russell dislikes his fellow welsh people, because he made them look REALLY bad, what with the cruelness of the welsh pub landlady (above and beyond the rest of the pub people) and the evil welsh politician Edit: I think Roger thing is either a red herring (so she and the audience thinks that doing dealing with him will fix it), or it's forshadowing for a re-appearence. After all, now that timeline doesn't exist, who's gonna stop Roger? (Some think he ceased to exist when The Doctor didn't stand on the circle, but I think that's unsatisfying.)
Yeah. When I watch this scene, that pretty much sums up my reaction, outside of the RTD pondering. It wouldn’t be _so_ bad if it didn’t start with at least two people being offended by a perfectly reasonable question (I go into that in my own comment), but with that as the starting tone, everything else that follows is so needlessly mean spirited.
Oddly enough if you as a foreigner ended up in a "Kneipe" in a small rural town in Germany the people could be just as bad. It is a roll of the dice really.
@@michaelklaus yeah, I am aware of the unfriendly locals thing. I think you get places like that everywhere. However, this felt a bit more cruel and I can't quite parse why
@@alexandrajohnson6180 same, but I have known people who have been treated poorly in really remote villages. Some places are just really clique-y, but that aint a welsh thing. It's a people thing.
Episodes like this ( which I havent seen but I have watched reviews like this) make me feel Doctor Who can eventually become an anthology where writers and directors tell unconnected stories in the Doctor who universe. Like a live action Matrix animated series. I say this because of Disney. EDIT*So many reviewers talked about the episode I ended up watching it, but going forward I think I'll just watch breakdowns like yours and Who culture. *.
@@ProtagonistIvy I say that as a demise to the main series. I think Disney in general is destroying IP's. If you ever hear that the show is getting an American show runner and will be shot in California, say Good Bye.
If you fink that was a good attempt at a negative comment you were very mistaken. Don’t like the vid don’t watch so really who’s not worth listening to?
@@Richard-se1de then 👏don’t 👏watch 👏the 👏video👏 it is her video and her review and her honest opinion on the episodes. It’s not your video it’s not your review. Is it that hard to just not watch it if you don’t agree with it? Does it make you feel good to leave a negative attempt (or a poor attempt at it). Move on
I wanted to like it, it was a really good for a majority of the episode but then it just wraps up with no real conclusion, no explanations as to why everyone is running away including her mother and Kate Bishop... why would they run away especially from just an older version of Ruby herself?! It makes no sense, It's not properly explained. Why did the Doctor disappear? The Doctor used to be this powerful character now he seems powerless against these magical forces. This is lazy writing IMO... Doctor Who needs to go back to being sci-fi not fantasy. I can't recognize this show any more.
I think that's the point. Ever since 14 messed with reality, it is getting weirder, and as Kate said more and more supernatural occurrences happen. These are the consequences of the Doctor's actions slowly catching up to him I think this is what he is going to have to deal with in the series finale
I have one big issue with this episode. The Carla scene. In and of itself, it's fine. It works. It's the influence of The Woman. But this scene doesn't exist in isolation. And coming off of The Church on Ruby Road, which features a similar scene (playing into some problematic tropes about foster parents), it feels like we're getting this perpetual idea that without Ruby in her life, Carla would actually be a terrible person.
I have noticed that yeah!!! It’s a bit Odd…
This isn't unique for Carla though. In RtD1 he constantly was harsh to the maternal characters as well. He wrote Jackie, Sylvia, and Francine as all being pretty awful to their daughters. Yeah, in hindsight we have the Jackie Tyler memes and people like her, but she really wasn't written in a flattering light. It's far more prominent than the stuff Moffat is criticized for, imo. But for a variety of reasons this issue is just sorta ignored. (He's better at PR, his era happened in a slightly different cultural context, people who grew up with the show started using certain critical tool sets around the Moffat era but not around RtD1, it was less popular in America, people got annoyed at Sherlock for some unearthly reason, etc etc.)
@@najawin8348 I get that, but given that Carla seems to be a lesbian (Ruby mentions one of Carla's previous GFs, the whole shed conversation etc.) it may come off worse in this case.
@@TheGerkuman You're reading waaaayyyy to much into the girlfriend comment. That's slang even for just female friends. I guess I could see the shed conversation, but I think it's still a stretch on its own.
I really disliked that the people at the pub took immediate offense when Ruby asks if she can pay with her phone. Even in big cities, not everywhere accepts tap cards and phone pay systems (my local Walmart does not have that option, for goodness sake!), so asking is not some slight on anyone, especially when the person has no other way to pay. That tainted that whole scene for me, especially upon rewatching the episode.
I also don’t like what you took issue with as well.
Yah lol, very rare for me to find a place that does that
He was trying to land a joke about them being in a village and ruby thinking they are out of touch and backwards but he gave no setup for said joke and it landed completely flat...to top it off its a time travel show so the audience immediately went down the thought process of is this the 1920's or something lol
@@charg1nmalaz0r51 right! i thought "Ruby, do you even know WHEN you are?!"
@@charg1nmalaz0r51 I don't think Ruby thought they were out of touch or backwards at all. Ruby was surprised/confused when the woman acted as though she didn't realize phones had the ability to make credit/debit card payments. The joke about outsiders believing the Welsh have witchcraft or magical beliefs would have landed better without the phone payment bit before it.
I think, within the context of the text, the actions Ruby took re 10:25 onwards were pretty plausibly ethical. (They were also pretty plausibly unethical, but it depends a lot on specific things and the normative system you want to apply to the situation.) But surely that just raises the most obvious question, right? Why was Ruby in this situation in the first place? The story isn't real life. RtD wrote it. He didn't have to write that. Just because it makes sense within the fiction of the work doesn't mean that it justifies the artistic decision. There've been other concerns this series, like with the Goblins in TCoRR, or some messy political messaging in SB. idk, maybe he should hire a sensitivity reader or two, as much as he complains about the younger writers these days.
To me, it makes sense if she couldn't do anything in the realm of exposing or taking down Roger right away, but it would've helped to see her do something other than just apologizing for not doing anything but there isn't quite time to show that- which emphasizes why it shouldn't have been put in, because there's not enough time or space to factor in something like that.
@@ProtagonistIvy My understanding is that the scripts for this series were longer than what was put to screen, a good 5-15 minutes was cut. Not sure if that impacts this plot line. But it was pretty impactful to, say, the ending in Boom.
@@ProtagonistIvy I dunno the ep felt like it had a lot of dead space. less dead space maybe?
Can the cat predict if the last episode will be shit
We DO have a prediction for the finale…. But no spoilers!!
@@ProtagonistIvy I predict less then 1.5M viewers overnight...
can see how disturbing Ruby delaying her action against Gwiliam has been for people. I suppose that one reason for her delay is that The Doctor had described him as Britain's worst Prime Minister. So it is possible that Rudy had to wait to the moment he had actually become Prime Minister
The terror and mystery part of the story was fine until she found companionship with the ghost who was ruining her life. I really don't understand why that happened in terms of the characters or the storytelling. Foreboding is part of a good horror story but that was discarded in favour of unexplained positivity.
She did have some sort of memory of what happened; or at least a hint that she does somewhere in her mind cause she counts it among the times she has been to whales before. At the start she had only been there twice before, but at the end the line is she has been there 3 times before listing the first two times the same as before then she stammers and counts now as the third as if her mind is trying to make since of why she said 3rd time.
Great review
Thank you so much!
thanks for this review, i agreed with a lot of it, but in paticular the bit at the end. it seemed like a 'kicking puppies' cheap way to show just how evil the prime minister was, that was executed thoughtlessly with no care at all for the implications it holds about ruby's complacency. doctor who is about defeating monsters and saving the day, but the companion can't do anything in the face of a monster a lot of the viewers have actually encountered in their life? i also loved the vibes of the episode, and thought the opening was so strong. then it just got frustrating.
I did not like this episode. It began very strong. Spooky woman following her after they broke a weird circle was good. The wales people mocking her for superstition was fun.
Then everyone talking to the woman running away was very good, too. A build up of mystery and all.
But as with many mysteries, the payoff fell short. It began when her mom ran away. More precisely, when she later was on the phone with her mom, and nobody adressed the obvious "what did she say to you"-question. Before that, people just ran away and they never talked to her again. The call with her mother felt off.
Then the years began to spring by. Quite the clear sign for "this is all basicly an illusion" which is for me a sign that I do not need to pay attention anymore, since it all will be inconsequential in the end by some reveal.
Using her follower to depose an abusive and likely genocidal asshole was a nice idea. But the asshole did not have enough build up to be an impactfull payoff for the episode. Especially since this achievement will be, as we already know, retconned anyway, so it already feels like nothing to me.
Then, the final payoff! She herself is the old woman! That explains... nothing. Neither why it happened how it worked, what this now retconned dream was supposed to accomplish.
So, we have a mystery with no explanation and an inconsequential dream sequence...
Not a great episode tbh.
Though, it had a good start and some nice moments. So not terrible. But would not watch again.
I wanted to like it, it was a really good for a majority of the episode but then it just wraps up with no real conclusion, no explanations as to why everyone is running away including her mother and Kate Bishop... why would they run away especially from just an older version of Ruby herself?! It makes no sense, It's not properly explained. Why did the Doctor disappear? The Doctor used to be this powerful character now he seems powerless against these magical forces. This is lazy writing IMO... Doctor Who needs to go back to being sci-fi not fantasy. I can't recognize this show any more.
I thought this episode would have been fine in Buffy the Vampire Slayer or Sabrina the Teenage Witch. They have long series that can include a dead end mystery episode.
Man i didnt even realise it until watching this, but this episode really does feel like it was made for the young adults right now and the journey i and a lot of people i know are going on.
From that point in our lives where we feel everyone that we once knew has left us and we don't even know why, but we have to push on and enter this new stage in life, depression kicks in, we're a bit more dispondant to the people around us, we become fearful of the world around us and the powers controlling our lives that we decide to become the change and say no, you move.
That's at least my interpretation. The journey into young adulthood is so different from what it once was and its amazing the Russell gets it, sympathises and can channel it so powerfully through Ruby. Sometimes a comfort show can ve comforting because it shows you a better world you can escape to, this for me is comforting because it shows the reality and the universal experience, and that we can make things better i guess.
Love LOVE this reading thank you for sharing!!
Would you mind if I share this on Twitter? Ok if not
@ProtagonistIvy Of course, feel honoured tbh. I did comment this with my twitter handle and the name of my Doctor Who channel, but I think that comment got hidden by TH-cam or something, they hate that sort of thing which I suppose makes sense.
I'm wondering whether Russell dislikes his fellow welsh people, because he made them look REALLY bad, what with the cruelness of the welsh pub landlady (above and beyond the rest of the pub people) and the evil welsh politician
Edit: I think Roger thing is either a red herring (so she and the audience thinks that doing dealing with him will fix it), or it's forshadowing for a re-appearence. After all, now that timeline doesn't exist, who's gonna stop Roger? (Some think he ceased to exist when The Doctor didn't stand on the circle, but I think that's unsatisfying.)
Yeah. When I watch this scene, that pretty much sums up my reaction, outside of the RTD pondering. It wouldn’t be _so_ bad if it didn’t start with at least two people being offended by a perfectly reasonable question (I go into that in my own comment), but with that as the starting tone, everything else that follows is so needlessly mean spirited.
Oddly enough if you as a foreigner ended up in a "Kneipe" in a small rural town in Germany the people could be just as bad. It is a roll of the dice really.
@@michaelklaus yeah, I am aware of the unfriendly locals thing. I think you get places like that everywhere. However, this felt a bit more cruel and I can't quite parse why
I found this part odd. I know every country has rude people but I've always found the Welsh to be very warm and friendly, even to outsiders.
@@alexandrajohnson6180 same, but I have known people who have been treated poorly in really remote villages.
Some places are just really clique-y, but that aint a welsh thing. It's a people thing.
with 8,4 it has the best rating for doctor who since ages
First things before i say what think, tell me something about me if you have powers?
U need air to breathe
To me it was the best episode so far EXCEPT for the ending which was among the worst.
Episodes like this ( which I havent seen but I have watched reviews like this) make me feel Doctor Who can eventually become an anthology where writers and directors tell unconnected stories in the Doctor who universe. Like a live action Matrix animated series. I say this because of Disney.
EDIT*So many reviewers talked about the episode I ended up watching it, but going forward I think I'll just watch breakdowns like yours and Who culture. *.
I’d love that IF it didn’t interfere with the main series
@@ProtagonistIvy I say that as a demise to the main series. I think Disney in general is destroying IP's. If you ever hear that the show is getting an American show runner and will be shot in California, say Good Bye.
Why did I watched this video? I don't even watch nor like Dr. Who?
The stars aligned and drew you to this video. No idea why but…. Hope you enjoyed? Haha thanks for joining me
@@ProtagonistIvy Yes it was an interesting video!
If you fink that was good you are not worth listening to again
If you fink that was a good attempt at a negative comment you were very mistaken. Don’t like the vid don’t watch so really who’s not worth listening to?
@@gabrielleschneider9098 probably any DUMb American
@@Richard-se1de then 👏don’t 👏watch 👏the 👏video👏 it is her video and her review and her honest opinion on the episodes. It’s not your video it’s not your review. Is it that hard to just not watch it if you don’t agree with it? Does it make you feel good to leave a negative attempt (or a poor attempt at it). Move on
@@gabrielleschneider9098 if you can't take a bad review on your own videos you must be a sad presenter
strong words coming from someone who's nickname is penis-related
I wanted to like it, it was a really good for a majority of the episode but then it just wraps up with no real conclusion, no explanations as to why everyone is running away including her mother and Kate Bishop... why would they run away especially from just an older version of Ruby herself?! It makes no sense, It's not properly explained. Why did the Doctor disappear? The Doctor used to be this powerful character now he seems powerless against these magical forces. This is lazy writing IMO... Doctor Who needs to go back to being sci-fi not fantasy. I can't recognize this show any more.
I think that's the point. Ever since 14 messed with reality, it is getting weirder, and as Kate said more and more supernatural occurrences happen. These are the consequences of the Doctor's actions slowly catching up to him
I think this is what he is going to have to deal with in the series finale