I think an argument could be made that having a point of vulnerability on her chest could imply a weakness in her heart. I could see her swayed by emotion as the descendants of her sisters confront her. I think it’s good balance having that pale blue there as well to balance out her dark outfit. That being said realistically it doesn’t make sense to have that window there but practicality isn’t always necessary in character design lol.
I like Skyren's thoughts on a redesign where her back is exposed instead. 1. Backless gowns are fancy, fit for an ice queen. 2. It would be ironic how a betrayer has her back exposed. 3. She puts up a covered, impervious front. But once she turns around, its all a facade.
Its not so much a boob window but more the fashion of a dress she formed with her ice. There are lots of old timey ball gowns that show a lot of cleavage.
@@sangriabearThat could just add onto the appeal of that as a redesign. She tries covering up her weakneas/flaw, but when she moves around (with dynamic physics) her hair moves and she gets exposed
While its true that practicality isn't always necessary in character design, its true because its better to focus on what would enhance the character thematically and direct the consumer to what that design means instead of focusing on what ''wouldn't make sense for them not to have''. Like the big spiky pauldrons are not really practical, they're there for silhouette, composition and to give an even more hostile feel to her. That boob window tho means nothing for Liss' character lol, it doesn't make her more matronly then she already is nor feels like a ''window'' to her humanity. At least to me it feels more like a window to a time where League needed to have at least a little bit of sexy in every lady
i with Lissandra incorporated the thralls into her kit more because right now she's just a generic ice mage when she is so much more than that. Where's the horrible traces of the void? Where's the mind warping powers? Where is the life draining secrets? Where's the darkness to the dark lady?
Ok, I might be just as blind as Lissandra but....am I the only one who didn't even know she had a boob window? The very first time I noticed it was when I saw skyen short about her and he pointed it out, before I didn't even know she had it, you don't see it in the splash art and it's barely noticable in her model unless you look real close to it, kinda makes it look like that even the designers for league didn't want to give her a boob window.
@@FratoiuAlexreally a lack of window should be what she does have. Make it all angular like geometric shapes and closed off to symbolize the ice, secrets, and cold region she lives in.
Its crazy cuz normally Riot focuses A LOT on the parts they consider sexy when making the splash arts (looking at you, Briar). Liss comes from a time before League's ''peak'', but it was already starting to leave behind the ''every female character needs to be sexy'' thing, so its REALLY interesting that her Splash Art seems to have been made explicitely in an angle to NOT showcase the boob window.
I think Lissandra's lore really is sad, though. She's an 'The ends justify the means' character, but in her case its true. The watchers will destroy reality, and the only way to stop them is by keeping them frozen and asleep. She has to maintain the facade that she is helping the watchers in some way, because if she doesn't, the watchers will find out. She walks through dreams, and brings the watchers in their slumber with her, to keep them asleep. If what she was doing was common knowledge, people might dream about it, and then the watchers would know. But the watchers have never been a coherent thing, and it really messes with the lore. They were defeated on the howling abyss, but not really? But also they haven't entered reality yet? But they also clearly have? And they are asleep but also they are so mad because they got woken up before? Are they world ending threats, or something you can beat by throwing them into a big hole? The watchers are the biggest hole in the voids lore. I kind of miss the days before the watchers lore, because the void conceptually was more interesting as more of a force of nature that warped things and spit out monsters. It still does that, but having a 'mastermind' behind it sort of reduces the existential threat of unreality. Its something that can theoretically be beaten. Then you add Asol and space targon lore, sealing up void holes in space, and it sort of really doesn't make any sense.
Lissandra is my favorite League of Legends champion, both in appearance and in her bio. She shows by her very appearance that she is a villain, and so does the entire Freljord. She sacrificed her sisters and their army to save all of Runeterra. The entire Freljord considers her a witch who needs to be destroyed, and no one suspects that she wanders through people's dreams every day to keep the Watchers asleep for as long as possible. I really like her redesign in LoR, she looks elegant and menacing at the same time, and I absolutely do not like how she was drawn in WR (clearly done half-heartedly). I really hope that if rito ever makes a series like Arcane, only about the Freljord, they will reveal Lissandra as an anti-hero with a sad fate, which is actually not as terrible as everyone around thinks, and not make her a classic villain like: "I'm evil, and I want to bury the whole world under a thick layer of ice"
BIG CORRECTION HERE: It is never outright stated that the power the watchers granted is the Iceborn power. "Unknown to her sisters, Lissandra struck a deal on their behalf with the god-like entities she had communed with-the Watchers would grant them near-immortality in exchange for preparing Runeterra for the coming of the Void. The three sisters and their most powerful followers were named Iceborn. Those with this ability to withstand the worst of the numbing frost would be spared until the very end." This can be interpreted as the Iceborn being made by the Watchers, but I personally think that is a wrong assumption. It only really tells us that the Iceborn would be spared till the very end, not that the Watchers actually created them in the first place. Necrit spread this interpretation and I still haven't quite forgiven him for it. So yea even if it turns out to be that case, it's safer to just say that the Watchers granted Lissandra and her sisters immortality and promised to spare the Iceborn.
I think the big distinction is how you interpret 'were named'. I think it is completely valid to read it as them being named Iceborne BY the watchers (which would imply the watchers created them), as opposed to the sentence simply acknowledging that they were already called iceborne. Personally I think the theory that Iceborn were created by the watchers is most likely going to be explicitly confirmed at some point because it is more interesting from a narrative perspective than them kinda just existing. If Iceborne didn't come from the watchers, then riot would have to cook up an entirely new origin in the lore, which seems like a waste when they already have this really cool Faustian bargain set up. TL;DR it isn't 'confirmed' but I think that it is convincing interpretation that makes a lot more narrative sense than the alternative/
@@jimjimson6208 I mean Riot does tend to just go with the most popular interpretation by fans, so there is a good chance that this will be made into cannon at some point even if it perhaps wasn't planned from the beginning. My view on it is that Iceborn powers are just a weird power for the Watchers to grant period. Beyond that we really don't need to "cook up" another origin. Iceborn powers seem to be linked with True Ice, that most probably originates from Anivia. Not to mention that the people who are blessed by Ornn and get certain powers from it are called Hearthborn if I remember correctly. (I think there was also one for just "normal" humans that ended with "born" so I may mix things up here, I know I did before) I also remember a Rioter saying that there would be other True Elements like Fire for example, but they may have since scrapped that plan (or just fired the Rioter that had the plan to begin with) Generally Riot tends to keep things vague and unexplained if it's not really needed for a story, as to keep them options when they revisit stuff. That's also why I think that the text didn't intend to explain the origin of Iceborn, because there really isn't much reason to explain it by this point.
Honestly, just put the Watcher eye on her chest instead of the boob window. Serves the same purpose of breaking up the color and works thematically better
I think you put too much faith in how much people care about her boob window, lol. I was around for Lissandra's release, even mained her for a while... I had no idea she even had a boob window until you pointed it out in this video.
to be fair, i believe it's stated somewhere that it's sort of a mental struggle between her and the influience of the watchers ever since she starts walking in dreams, which leads her to falter and agree to the deal. also, skyen made a point of hating the cleavage. Blud litteraly said " as if she isn't smoking hot already"
10:51 You: "Like, imagine if Swain was shirtless" Me, thinking there are already fanart like that already You: "I know a lot of people have already imagine that already" Me: Oh, he read my mind.
I think I'd like to see her story get an Arcane style season where they refine the story a bit. Make the choice of saving her family, but dooming the world feel really weighty. Knowing that the only way to stop them is to directly kill everyone you were trying to save cause her sister tell her off or something. Could get a solid tight 2 seasons out of it.
I will argue one point with you: if you read the story about how she feeds herself to the Watchers' dreams to keep them sated, it becomes very clear that she is sacrificing her own wellbeing for her mission. The rest of what you say about her is still true, which makes her such a fantastic conundrum of an antagonist. We can resent her for causing the problem, we can resent her selfishness, arrogance, and callousness, but she is still doing what she says she's doing. How do we beat the "final boss", when winning would lead to our own self-destruction? (She is also capable of kindness. That same story has a scene in which she stays with a dying man in his dream, so he won't die alone.)
Honestly the open chest area for Lisandra doesn't feel like it was ever intended to be "sexy" just more of ice statue woman in evil ice dress. The dress visual to give her a sense of power and elegance, and well the majority of dresses tend to have an open spot at the chest.
Yeah IMO it's a way to be sure that her silhouette properly reads as "dress" rather than "armor". I think that she would feel a lot less elegant, and thus less threatening without the exposed chest.
I disagree on the front that even in her original splash art, the boob window isn't visible, and it still reads as a dress, just with big pauldrons. Specially considering old dresses tend to have that ''open'' spot not in the cleavage area, but up towards the neck, its kinda hard to argue it wasn't made just to be a focus on big booba. I feel like the Nunu game made it be slightly upwards, specially when she's without the helmet, making it more noticeable as a ''''''weak point'''''
blade queen and bloodstone are actually my two favorite skins. i love that they don’t feel like a shoehorned fit for a skinline the way many skins do nowadays, they feel like unique ideas for her. blade queen has always given me the vibe of “what if lissandra was from zaun?” and bloodstone is essentially a chroma, but i think the concept of a blood-bending skin is very cool.
I love lissandra, she is perfect for me, mid range mage that focuses on cc. All the different angles you can engage from and your peel is so good. W and r in the right spots to buy space but also has enough threat to 1 combo Squishies. She's fun.
I like the boob window, because being masked and being the lider of a cult gives her a dominatrix-esque vibe that I -do- believe fits her, she essentially runs a cult of (seems like) mostly just men, men that are so enthralled by her that have decided to adopt her appearance as iconography, in the form of their helms, in fact, there's not a single artwork with a female Frostguard. She doesn't need leather and whips to drive the point home. She is about dominating the Frelijord and manipulating people while ruling with an iron fist even if is solely for the purpose of stopping the watchers. There is an strange element of worship towards her from her faithful. So to put it simply: Character is essentially about domination and power > to achieve domination she has an organization of what is depicted as only men to do her bidding > domination also comes in the form of manipulation and distraction, tactic which she employs often with the Avarosan and Winter's Claw = These concepts or ideas that can be very close to sexuality. She's a matriarch, with an army of followers that never had an explanation as to how they came to be. She has cleavage not because it's not a fan service element, it's a worshipping element, just like you mentioned "She looks like a statue." just like people are mesmerized by the iconography and beauty of Michellangelo's David, that can be something also present for Lissandra. This is would be a proper explanation as to why the Frostguard wear that horned headress, even if it truly doesn't have any practicality for them as they're not blind, out of loyalty and faithfulness. It's not hard to see why themes of power, domination, matriarchy, ocultism and manipulation give room for a sexual element in her design.
If Syndra didn't exist, I think her mechanic would fit Liss very well. As she grows in power by collect True Ice shards(or whatever), her spells upgrade and improve, which I would say fits the final boss of the Freljord.
Lissandra was my first main and I think I gravitated toward her because her kit was simple. I still consider her my favorite champion, I love her character
Lissandra has an open window there because she is heartless. She sold out the world and sacrificed her people and her sisters. Since she does not have a heart, that part of her body does not need armor.
As an ex Lissandra OTP who still picks her often, I declare that I wouldn't play more than 3 games of her if it wasn't for the uncannily cool looks and amazing lore. (I said that but I still love her and she's my girl!!!!) Also, have a nice weekend everyone^^!!!!
14:05 That was a 9000 iq play. When you tp to a minion, it becomes invulnerable, so it can tank everything in the world, including tower shots. But there was also another melee minion to tank the tower, so, 8999 iq play
I don't really see the cleavage as a distraction in any way. It doesn't draw the eye and it's not pronounced in any way. Honestly it just makes her stony-icy exterior not feel suffocating. Like she could take a breath without constriction
Imma be honest, i havent even noticed lissandra had a boob window until she arrived at wild rift last week. And even then its not even that bad, one could argue that it's a sign of weakness, there's still a bit of human in that big ice monolith. I will say she is prominent, and it's kinda weird most of her mains calls her "mother"
Here is my opinion on the boob window i think it is ok when you veiw it like the darker parts of her body ate ment to represent her monster side while the light parts are her sliver of humanity so she still has a human heart and feelings while acting monstrous
I mean if Liss didn't have the titty window her design would look extremely bland and monotone. She would be almost entirely one color except for her face. Granted, they could just add that pop of color somewhere else, like the painted on designs she has in Song of Nunu, or maybe some gold accents to add to the sense royal majesty and regalness she has.
I agree the boob window is unnecessary but idont think its distracting nor does it detracts from her characterizations since nobody even knew she had one..
I feel like Lissandra's chest was more so meant to reference the corsets used by British royalty and compare her to those classically pompous and privileged people in their society. Not really a sex appeal thing, and I feel like arguing it's just that without doing research just feels reductive and almost like you're obsessing over the sexual aspects of any character you review. The deeper cut in song of nunu is a bit silly tho.
I do get the complaints about the boob window, but as someone who loves this champ, it's something I've completely overlooked. I'm big Ace too, but maybe in a way that does just ignore things like this. She gives big Swain vibes, someone with immense power and I think that's more attractive than tiddies so I've just never noticed? It could also just be that's riots baseline so I'm just so used to it, but I kinda have just been filling it in, in my mind I guess. Not something that kills her vibe for me, even after you brought it to my attention. Then again, I kinda do the same thing with Evelynn of all characters, where with her I know she's made for sex appeal but it's her power and dominance that draws me in. I find Eves vibe more sexy than her curves to the point that I just don't think of her as sexually attractive. I can understand exactly why people see that but I kinda gloss over it with these types of characters
while I hate the sexual nature of most female characters in league I think it works for lissandra , it shows that while she’s a monster an ice cold statue she still has a little bit of humanity inside of her showing up her chest is a way to show she has heart that she has a vulnerable heart a part of her that is weak that’s an amazing way to show that she’s not completely just ice cold witch she’s also a human or at least once was a human that is amazing character design, while I would’ve preferred that she shouldn’t have it on her chest maybe just her heart or maybe just in her back to show that she once back stabbed both the watchers and her sisters . Still I love lissandra’s design so much
While I like the idea of having a part of her showing, to showcase the little left of her humanity that is still there... a boob window is evoking a lot of things, *that* might be one of the last things it does evoke. It evokes a LOT of other things before it says she still has humanity, and in many cases it is not used to represent that at all too, so its mixed signals at least.
@@danieltodorov7753 I think sexuality and beauty in female designs can work pretty well like for example lux , Gwen and seraphine need to be pretty and beautiful because that’s who they are as characters and it shows perfectly their personalities as bright and sweet , Evelynn and syndra can be sexy because is part of their characters and personalities even characters like akali or qiyana is important that they have very defined bodies and muscles because they are always training it makes sense for them to be build like models BUT characters like Ashe , misfortune , kaisa , kayn , Janna , Leblanc , Cassiopeia , irelia , Katarina , Morgana , Leona , nami , shivanna , sivir , Vi or zyra why are they sexy ? Being sexy has nothing to do with their characters in fact in cases like kaisa or Cassiopeia actually MOVE THEIR CHARACTERS BACKWARDS story telling through character design is important and it should always be a priority when it comes to design a champion just think if jinx , Taliyah or ilaoi would be as iconic and beloved by the community if they had gigantic boobs and wear bikinis to battle it would make zero sense and contradicts who they are as people
@@carriebrute3627 Thanks for giving me a legit answer, I was legit curious about your perspective on this. I don't mind attractive designs in general but I understand what you mean and your stance is a good one.
But the "dress" just looks good... i dont even think thats fan service, its like a long dress made of ice, i kinda like it a lot, everything about it. Not only the boob window of course.
About the sexualisation of Lissandra, I really like Skyen's comment on it in his video on her: instead off cleavage, an open back dress, symbolising how she's all facade but secrets and vulnerability behind
Lissandra suffers from Viktor syndrome, riot couldn't decide if she's supposed to be good or bad so they went both ways. She was clearly a villain way back when (just like Viktor) but they readjusted the story to make her have good intentions and now depending of where Lissandra is portrayed she acts differently
Lisandra is a lot like Venli from the Stormlight Arcives before the fight against the Watchers. Totally willing to go along with the end of the world if it means she can gain power.
Ik im like 2 months late to this and no one would care if i made a comment about this or not But there’s a simple fix to lissandra’s story to make her that much more relatable. All they have to do is instead of having liss caused the arrival of the void be an intentional decision, why not make it an unintentional decision, caused indirectly by either sisters or the watchers themselves, maybe in the beginning she can see the watcher’s powerful telekinesis power being able to bend the vision of future (kinda like malzer’s getting corrupted by belveth), causing her to be fearful and dread them, and then in the light of that panic and fear, the watchers make use of it, not only manipulating liss’s sisters but liss herself as well, sowing doubt and guilt between them and in the end it’s through that doubt and deception (say the watchers manipulated her vision into thinking it’s her sister who would cause the apocalypse), she would then in turn take up the watcher’s offer of both power and “redemption” for her sisters, and it comes in form of the void’s arrival. That way her hero complex makes sense, that way her sacrifices would be just and unjust, cause it’s all a lie, and this entire time she has been paying for the prices she doesnt even know she’s paying, cause all she has been doing is exactly what the watchers has been planning, but they didnt expect her to be that willing to go that far to stop them and halt their arrival. It both shows she’s human at the end, through heart and conviction she tried her best to fix her mistakes, but still just a pawn in a massive plan for an even bigger enemy, it fixes her inhumanity hiccups and builds up the terrifying power of the watchers.
Lissandra's status as a villain you're supposed to sympathize with is a little similar to Odysseus, who's essentially a mass murderer who is not even above sacrificing his own men to Circe and / or Scylla and / or Zeus in some versions of the story.
With lor, I WISH we could see the inquisitors and the thralls. Smite has a character Tiamat who summons her children and minions. Imagine if lisandra like azir could make her army. The towers could resemble howling abyss. And she summons minions that could die in one or two hits. Really feel like you’re going against HER army. And she’s the queen
about the kit, i feel like Nicky is asking for a kit rework. She's had the same kit for years. I imagine her kit was terrifying on release (and pro play because of nerfs) with the ult
I think the boob window does a good job of balancing the colours on her model, but it's very poorly implemented imo What if they made her collarbones apparent instead? You get the same split to distinguish the head, while keeping the point of the character intact
You don't understand, the boob window signifies a window unto her heart. That even if she's cold and imposing, she still has a heart within that darkness, a soft spot as you will to the people she cares about.
I really want a second Frostguard champion; if she's the Freljord's main villain, Lissandra deserves an actually loyal vassal. Someone like the Draklorn Inquisitor from LoR. And give her an actual legendary; Porcelain or Space Groove should have been legendaries, when she's the actual main villain of those skinlines.
Is there more lore to the Frostguard? Because theire look is so cool with theire helmets and these glowing swords. That it would be cool if a captain or someone like this could become a champion in LoL.
So Lissandra trapped the watchers by killing eveyone she cared about because she was afraid that the watchers were gonna kill everything she cared about? Do I have that right?
The thing that bothers me most about Lissandra's kit is that she's a dive-mage but she just fucking dies if you dive in. Like you're intended to go in with your heavily telegraphed E and then root with the W and maybe R but like.... She doesn't have any sustain like swain? Maybe if her W was ranged or her passive left frozen effigies of killed champions and/or siege minions & epic monsters she could sap health from idk
I going to both agree and disagree with the exposed skin. While just having the boob window is silly, IMO she would be better with more exposed skin, not necessarily as a fan service but as you said, she isn't connected to humanity and is known as the ice witch. For me she just looks like she wears the stuff she has on her, imagine how cool (pun not intended) it would be if the "clothes" blended with her making you question if that's part of her skin or not
If I could rework Lissandra, I'd go full mage support. Support is the only lane where she gets any value out of her passive, so what if they leaned in to that. Make her ult able to target teamates, maybe even make her E work like a moving thresh lantern that teamates can grab onto. She's already an extremely defensive mage, all she needs is a few extra tools and you've got a fun peel support that isn't just Lulu or Alistair.
If i were trying to make myself the hero of the story, I'd probably use clothing that depicts me in an attractive figure as well. Makes the story more appealing. Alternatively, if im an ancient ice witch living like a bad bitch in the frozen north, Imma dress the part. Full on supervillain fit right there
Wasn't Swain made substantially more attractive when he got reworked? He used to be this hobbling old man. Also, Lissandra's lore is bad, like BFA/SL sylvanas bad. "I can do this laundry list of despicable evil acts, because there's actually some even greater generic evil threat!"
"A human should not sacrifice the loves of her entire people, pretend to be the hero of the entire story, while they're the one who caused all the problems" you could make a political party out of this
Her "new" passive is terrible. They took a type of ability that was deemed to be outdated already and decided it was an upgrade. She just just have resets.
To be fair, Lissadra was created a while back, pretty sure she'd not or it be less if she was more modern but remember, she was made back when that was the ideal female characters. And while I will disagree with him with the whole freljordian mages are boring; playstyle-wise, (btw, Nicky there are only two mages in the freljord apart from Aurora... And anivia is only boring if people are into the the 1v9, heal too much, billion dashes, champions...), Lissandra is very interesting lore wise, think about it, she basically is the reason darkin exist too.
"Imagine if Swain was shirtless" Me : way ahead of you buddy Nick: "I know a lot of people already have" Me : "mum help nickyboi is reading my thoughts again"
"Now imagine Swain was shirtless"
Already did that.
He's already sexy enough without been shirtless
@@FratoiuAlex He's sexier BECAUSE he isn't shirtless
Real @@zwiebeldogs
laughs in bilgewater swain (i dont even have to imagine it riot knows what we want)
Now we need him pregnant
I think an argument could be made that having a point of vulnerability on her chest could imply a weakness in her heart. I could see her swayed by emotion as the descendants of her sisters confront her. I think it’s good balance having that pale blue there as well to balance out her dark outfit.
That being said realistically it doesn’t make sense to have that window there but practicality isn’t always necessary in character design lol.
I like Skyren's thoughts on a redesign where her back is exposed instead.
1. Backless gowns are fancy, fit for an ice queen.
2. It would be ironic how a betrayer has her back exposed.
3. She puts up a covered, impervious front. But once she turns around, its all a facade.
Its not so much a boob window but more the fashion of a dress she formed with her ice. There are lots of old timey ball gowns that show a lot of cleavage.
@@jamariirobinson725 True that's a nice idea but it'd also be covered by her hair
@@sangriabearThat could just add onto the appeal of that as a redesign. She tries covering up her weakneas/flaw, but when she moves around (with dynamic physics) her hair moves and she gets exposed
While its true that practicality isn't always necessary in character design, its true because its better to focus on what would enhance the character thematically and direct the consumer to what that design means instead of focusing on what ''wouldn't make sense for them not to have''. Like the big spiky pauldrons are not really practical, they're there for silhouette, composition and to give an even more hostile feel to her. That boob window tho means nothing for Liss' character lol, it doesn't make her more matronly then she already is nor feels like a ''window'' to her humanity. At least to me it feels more like a window to a time where League needed to have at least a little bit of sexy in every lady
i with Lissandra incorporated the thralls into her kit more because right now she's just a generic ice mage when she is so much more than that. Where's the horrible traces of the void? Where's the mind warping powers? Where is the life draining secrets? Where's the darkness to the dark lady?
Her passive is such a waste. It just feels more like a kill effect than anything lol
@@KINGOFTHESPARKS755I feel like it fits her character nicely a someone who uses others as a means to an end.
Ok, I might be just as blind as Lissandra but....am I the only one who didn't even know she had a boob window?
The very first time I noticed it was when I saw skyen short about her and he pointed it out, before I didn't even know she had it, you don't see it in the splash art and it's barely noticable in her model unless you look real close to it, kinda makes it look like that even the designers for league didn't want to give her a boob window.
Agreege
As Sky said a back window would've been a better look for her.
@@FratoiuAlexreally a lack of window should be what she does have. Make it all angular like geometric shapes and closed off to symbolize the ice, secrets, and cold region she lives in.
Its crazy cuz normally Riot focuses A LOT on the parts they consider sexy when making the splash arts (looking at you, Briar). Liss comes from a time before League's ''peak'', but it was already starting to leave behind the ''every female character needs to be sexy'' thing, so its REALLY interesting that her Splash Art seems to have been made explicitely in an angle to NOT showcase the boob window.
She's my 2nd most played character and I didn't know 😭
6:45
"Some of you may die... but that is a sacrifice *I* am willing to make!"
Personally I kinda like the small reveal of her skin cause it shows that sliver of humanity that she still has (or even acts as a weak spot for her)
"imagine if swain was shirtless"
*looks at viego* yeah that'd be silly.
That's kinda an insult to Swain tbh, he's not childish and a brat like viego
Casual Champion Rewiev: ❌
Casual Fanart Rewiev: ✅
I read that as fart
I think Lissandra's lore really is sad, though. She's an 'The ends justify the means' character, but in her case its true. The watchers will destroy reality, and the only way to stop them is by keeping them frozen and asleep. She has to maintain the facade that she is helping the watchers in some way, because if she doesn't, the watchers will find out. She walks through dreams, and brings the watchers in their slumber with her, to keep them asleep. If what she was doing was common knowledge, people might dream about it, and then the watchers would know.
But the watchers have never been a coherent thing, and it really messes with the lore. They were defeated on the howling abyss, but not really? But also they haven't entered reality yet? But they also clearly have? And they are asleep but also they are so mad because they got woken up before? Are they world ending threats, or something you can beat by throwing them into a big hole? The watchers are the biggest hole in the voids lore. I kind of miss the days before the watchers lore, because the void conceptually was more interesting as more of a force of nature that warped things and spit out monsters. It still does that, but having a 'mastermind' behind it sort of reduces the existential threat of unreality. Its something that can theoretically be beaten. Then you add Asol and space targon lore, sealing up void holes in space, and it sort of really doesn't make any sense.
Lissandra is my favorite League of Legends champion, both in appearance and in her bio. She shows by her very appearance that she is a villain, and so does the entire Freljord. She sacrificed her sisters and their army to save all of Runeterra. The entire Freljord considers her a witch who needs to be destroyed, and no one suspects that she wanders through people's dreams every day to keep the Watchers asleep for as long as possible. I really like her redesign in LoR, she looks elegant and menacing at the same time, and I absolutely do not like how she was drawn in WR (clearly done half-heartedly).
I really hope that if rito ever makes a series like Arcane, only about the Freljord, they will reveal Lissandra as an anti-hero with a sad fate, which is actually not as terrible as everyone around thinks, and not make her a classic villain like: "I'm evil, and I want to bury the whole world under a thick layer of ice"
BIG CORRECTION HERE: It is never outright stated that the power the watchers granted is the Iceborn power.
"Unknown to her sisters, Lissandra struck a deal on their behalf with the god-like entities she had communed with-the Watchers would grant them near-immortality in exchange for preparing Runeterra for the coming of the Void.
The three sisters and their most powerful followers were named Iceborn. Those with this ability to withstand the worst of the numbing frost would be spared until the very end."
This can be interpreted as the Iceborn being made by the Watchers, but I personally think that is a wrong assumption. It only really tells us that the Iceborn would be spared till the very end, not that the Watchers actually created them in the first place. Necrit spread this interpretation and I still haven't quite forgiven him for it.
So yea even if it turns out to be that case, it's safer to just say that the Watchers granted Lissandra and her sisters immortality and promised to spare the Iceborn.
I think the big distinction is how you interpret 'were named'. I think it is completely valid to read it as them being named Iceborne BY the watchers (which would imply the watchers created them), as opposed to the sentence simply acknowledging that they were already called iceborne.
Personally I think the theory that Iceborn were created by the watchers is most likely going to be explicitly confirmed at some point because it is more interesting from a narrative perspective than them kinda just existing. If Iceborne didn't come from the watchers, then riot would have to cook up an entirely new origin in the lore, which seems like a waste when they already have this really cool Faustian bargain set up.
TL;DR it isn't 'confirmed' but I think that it is convincing interpretation that makes a lot more narrative sense than the alternative/
@@jimjimson6208 I mean Riot does tend to just go with the most popular interpretation by fans, so there is a good chance that this will be made into cannon at some point even if it perhaps wasn't planned from the beginning.
My view on it is that Iceborn powers are just a weird power for the Watchers to grant period. Beyond that we really don't need to "cook up" another origin. Iceborn powers seem to be linked with True Ice, that most probably originates from Anivia. Not to mention that the people who are blessed by Ornn and get certain powers from it are called Hearthborn if I remember correctly. (I think there was also one for just "normal" humans that ended with "born" so I may mix things up here, I know I did before) I also remember a Rioter saying that there would be other True Elements like Fire for example, but they may have since scrapped that plan (or just fired the Rioter that had the plan to begin with)
Generally Riot tends to keep things vague and unexplained if it's not really needed for a story, as to keep them options when they revisit stuff. That's also why I think that the text didn't intend to explain the origin of Iceborn, because there really isn't much reason to explain it by this point.
Honestly, just put the Watcher eye on her chest instead of the boob window. Serves the same purpose of breaking up the color and works thematically better
"I dont know what I am doing!" - NickyBoi
"Great! you're in!" - TFT
thank you mr box2
Seeing lissandra with comet instead of conqueror provokes a primal fear in me
I think you put too much faith in how much people care about her boob window, lol. I was around for Lissandra's release, even mained her for a while... I had no idea she even had a boob window until you pointed it out in this video.
Yeah I'm gonna be real this whole time i thought it was just a bit of paler ice to break up the dark colours lol
2:07 yeah voli caught lissandra drinking pepsi
to be fair, i believe it's stated somewhere that it's sort of a mental struggle between her and the influience of the watchers ever since she starts walking in dreams, which leads her to falter and agree to the deal.
also, skyen made a point of hating the cleavage. Blud litteraly said " as if she isn't smoking hot already"
10:51
You: "Like, imagine if Swain was shirtless"
Me, thinking there are already fanart like that already
You: "I know a lot of people have already imagine that already"
Me: Oh, he read my mind.
I think I'd like to see her story get an Arcane style season where they refine the story a bit. Make the choice of saving her family, but dooming the world feel really weighty. Knowing that the only way to stop them is to directly kill everyone you were trying to save cause her sister tell her off or something. Could get a solid tight 2 seasons out of it.
I will argue one point with you: if you read the story about how she feeds herself to the Watchers' dreams to keep them sated, it becomes very clear that she is sacrificing her own wellbeing for her mission. The rest of what you say about her is still true, which makes her such a fantastic conundrum of an antagonist. We can resent her for causing the problem, we can resent her selfishness, arrogance, and callousness, but she is still doing what she says she's doing. How do we beat the "final boss", when winning would lead to our own self-destruction?
(She is also capable of kindness. That same story has a scene in which she stays with a dying man in his dream, so he won't die alone.)
Honestly the open chest area for Lisandra doesn't feel like it was ever intended to be "sexy" just more of ice statue woman in evil ice dress. The dress visual to give her a sense of power and elegance, and well the majority of dresses tend to have an open spot at the chest.
Yeah IMO it's a way to be sure that her silhouette properly reads as "dress" rather than "armor". I think that she would feel a lot less elegant, and thus less threatening without the exposed chest.
I disagree on the front that even in her original splash art, the boob window isn't visible, and it still reads as a dress, just with big pauldrons. Specially considering old dresses tend to have that ''open'' spot not in the cleavage area, but up towards the neck, its kinda hard to argue it wasn't made just to be a focus on big booba. I feel like the Nunu game made it be slightly upwards, specially when she's without the helmet, making it more noticeable as a ''''''weak point'''''
When I first started playing league i genuinely thought syndra and lissandra were the same person
blade queen and bloodstone are actually my two favorite skins. i love that they don’t feel like a shoehorned fit for a skinline the way many skins do nowadays, they feel like unique ideas for her. blade queen has always given me the vibe of “what if lissandra was from zaun?” and bloodstone is essentially a chroma, but i think the concept of a blood-bending skin is very cool.
I love lissandra, she is perfect for me, mid range mage that focuses on cc. All the different angles you can engage from and your peel is so good. W and r in the right spots to buy space but also has enough threat to 1 combo Squishies. She's fun.
I'm a very big fan of the quick edits like in 6:48. Makes me chuckle every time
Also Coven Lissandra! One of the two original coven skins, it's one of my faves for sure :)
I like the boob window, because being masked and being the lider of a cult gives her a dominatrix-esque vibe that I -do- believe fits her, she essentially runs a cult of (seems like) mostly just men, men that are so enthralled by her that have decided to adopt her appearance as iconography, in the form of their helms, in fact, there's not a single artwork with a female Frostguard. She doesn't need leather and whips to drive the point home. She is about dominating the Frelijord and manipulating people while ruling with an iron fist even if is solely for the purpose of stopping the watchers. There is an strange element of worship towards her from her faithful.
So to put it simply: Character is essentially about domination and power > to achieve domination she has an organization of what is depicted as only men to do her bidding > domination also comes in the form of manipulation and distraction, tactic which she employs often with the Avarosan and Winter's Claw = These concepts or ideas that can be very close to sexuality. She's a matriarch, with an army of followers that never had an explanation as to how they came to be.
She has cleavage not because it's not a fan service element, it's a worshipping element, just like you mentioned "She looks like a statue." just like people are mesmerized by the iconography and beauty of Michellangelo's David, that can be something also present for Lissandra. This is would be a proper explanation as to why the Frostguard wear that horned headress, even if it truly doesn't have any practicality for them as they're not blind, out of loyalty and faithfulness.
It's not hard to see why themes of power, domination, matriarchy, ocultism and manipulation give room for a sexual element in her design.
If Syndra didn't exist, I think her mechanic would fit Liss very well. As she grows in power by collect True Ice shards(or whatever), her spells upgrade and improve, which I would say fits the final boss of the Freljord.
Lissandra was my first main and I think I gravitated toward her because her kit was simple. I still consider her my favorite champion, I love her character
Lissandra has an open window there because she is heartless. She sold out the world and sacrificed her people and her sisters.
Since she does not have a heart, that part of her body does not need armor.
The fan art this time is so cool
As an ex Lissandra OTP who still picks her often, I declare that I wouldn't play more than 3 games of her if it wasn't for the uncannily cool looks and amazing lore. (I said that but I still love her and she's my girl!!!!)
Also, have a nice weekend everyone^^!!!!
14:05
That was a 9000 iq play. When you tp to a minion, it becomes invulnerable, so it can tank everything in the world, including tower shots. But there was also another melee minion to tank the tower, so, 8999 iq play
I don't really see the cleavage as a distraction in any way. It doesn't draw the eye and it's not pronounced in any way. Honestly it just makes her stony-icy exterior not feel suffocating. Like she could take a breath without constriction
Imma be honest, i havent even noticed lissandra had a boob window until she arrived at wild rift last week. And even then its not even that bad, one could argue that it's a sign of weakness, there's still a bit of human in that big ice monolith.
I will say she is prominent, and it's kinda weird most of her mains calls her "mother"
Honestly don't think she has a bad skin, even Bloodstone has a charm you don't get in any of the others
Here is my opinion on the boob window i think it is ok when you veiw it like the darker parts of her body ate ment to represent her monster side while the light parts are her sliver of humanity so she still has a human heart and feelings while acting monstrous
"Imagine if Swain was shirtless!"
Welp, at least you got that prediction right
I hadn’t thought of it before but now you’ve got me sold on shirtless Swain. Bilgewater halfway there already lol
I mean if Liss didn't have the titty window her design would look extremely bland and monotone. She would be almost entirely one color except for her face.
Granted, they could just add that pop of color somewhere else, like the painted on designs she has in Song of Nunu, or maybe some gold accents to add to the sense royal majesty and regalness she has.
I agree the boob window is unnecessary but idont think its distracting nor does it detracts from her characterizations since nobody even knew she had one..
I feel like Lissandra's chest was more so meant to reference the corsets used by British royalty and compare her to those classically pompous and privileged people in their society. Not really a sex appeal thing, and I feel like arguing it's just that without doing research just feels reductive and almost like you're obsessing over the sexual aspects of any character you review. The deeper cut in song of nunu is a bit silly tho.
"imagine swain shirtless"
Just forgot what the point was supposed to be with that image in my head now
Shirtless swain when?
You know who’s a better anti-villain? Lewis the gator. Where is the Lewis the gator ccr, Nicholas?
Is that Renektons surname?
@ravensong8286 pretty old lore. Renekton Lewis Smith. Reference to some movie I think
I do get the complaints about the boob window, but as someone who loves this champ, it's something I've completely overlooked. I'm big Ace too, but maybe in a way that does just ignore things like this. She gives big Swain vibes, someone with immense power and I think that's more attractive than tiddies so I've just never noticed? It could also just be that's riots baseline so I'm just so used to it, but I kinda have just been filling it in, in my mind I guess. Not something that kills her vibe for me, even after you brought it to my attention.
Then again, I kinda do the same thing with Evelynn of all characters, where with her I know she's made for sex appeal but it's her power and dominance that draws me in. I find Eves vibe more sexy than her curves to the point that I just don't think of her as sexually attractive. I can understand exactly why people see that but I kinda gloss over it with these types of characters
while I hate the sexual nature of most female characters in league I think it works for lissandra , it shows that while she’s a monster an ice cold statue she still has a little bit of humanity inside of her showing up her chest is a way to show she has heart that she has a vulnerable heart a part of her that is weak that’s an amazing way to show that she’s not completely just ice cold witch she’s also a human or at least once was a human that is amazing character design, while I would’ve preferred that she shouldn’t have it on her chest maybe just her heart or maybe just in her back to show that she once back stabbed both the watchers and her sisters . Still I love lissandra’s design so much
Why do you hate beauty ?
@@danieltodorov7753 He doesn't hate beauty, he hates the need for every single character to be sexy or otherwise they're not women enough
While I like the idea of having a part of her showing, to showcase the little left of her humanity that is still there... a boob window is evoking a lot of things, *that* might be one of the last things it does evoke. It evokes a LOT of other things before it says she still has humanity, and in many cases it is not used to represent that at all too, so its mixed signals at least.
@@danieltodorov7753 I think sexuality and beauty in female designs can work pretty well like for example lux , Gwen and seraphine need to be pretty and beautiful because that’s who they are as characters and it shows perfectly their personalities as bright and sweet , Evelynn and syndra can be sexy because is part of their characters and personalities even characters like akali or qiyana is important that they have very defined bodies and muscles because they are always training it makes sense for them to be build like models BUT characters like Ashe , misfortune , kaisa , kayn , Janna , Leblanc , Cassiopeia , irelia , Katarina , Morgana , Leona , nami , shivanna , sivir , Vi or zyra why are they sexy ? Being sexy has nothing to do with their characters in fact in cases like kaisa or Cassiopeia actually MOVE THEIR CHARACTERS BACKWARDS story telling through character design is important and it should always be a priority when it comes to design a champion just think if jinx , Taliyah or ilaoi would be as iconic and beloved by the community if they had gigantic boobs and wear bikinis to battle it would make zero sense and contradicts who they are as people
@@carriebrute3627 Thanks for giving me a legit answer, I was legit curious about your perspective on this. I don't mind attractive designs in general but I understand what you mean and your stance is a good one.
But the "dress" just looks good... i dont even think thats fan service, its like a long dress made of ice, i kinda like it a lot, everything about it. Not only the boob window of course.
Can't wait for the art on the Swain champion review~
Standard "woman looks attractive" rant from @10:00 to @12:00 for those looking to avoid the 100th time. Another solid video otherwise!
About the sexualisation of Lissandra, I really like Skyen's comment on it in his video on her: instead off cleavage, an open back dress, symbolising how she's all facade but secrets and vulnerability behind
nicky boi nicky boi nicky boi always hyped for a vid man haven't even watched the vid but i alr know itl be awsome coming from u
"You know every Messiah is lile onion, they got layers"
nicky: imagine if swain was shirtless
me 23ms afterwards: 😊
Lissandra suffers from Viktor syndrome, riot couldn't decide if she's supposed to be good or bad so they went both ways. She was clearly a villain way back when (just like Viktor) but they readjusted the story to make her have good intentions and now depending of where Lissandra is portrayed she acts differently
10:53
He didn't yet know what have to come...
*cough-coughwolfskinscough-cough*
Lisandra is a lot like Venli from the Stormlight Arcives before the fight against the Watchers.
Totally willing to go along with the end of the world if it means she can gain power.
Ik im like 2 months late to this and no one would care if i made a comment about this or not
But there’s a simple fix to lissandra’s story to make her that much more relatable. All they have to do is instead of having liss caused the arrival of the void be an intentional decision, why not make it an unintentional decision, caused indirectly by either sisters or the watchers themselves, maybe in the beginning she can see the watcher’s powerful telekinesis power being able to bend the vision of future (kinda like malzer’s getting corrupted by belveth), causing her to be fearful and dread them, and then in the light of that panic and fear, the watchers make use of it, not only manipulating liss’s sisters but liss herself as well, sowing doubt and guilt between them and in the end it’s through that doubt and deception (say the watchers manipulated her vision into thinking it’s her sister who would cause the apocalypse), she would then in turn take up the watcher’s offer of both power and “redemption” for her sisters, and it comes in form of the void’s arrival. That way her hero complex makes sense, that way her sacrifices would be just and unjust, cause it’s all a lie, and this entire time she has been paying for the prices she doesnt even know she’s paying, cause all she has been doing is exactly what the watchers has been planning, but they didnt expect her to be that willing to go that far to stop them and halt their arrival. It both shows she’s human at the end, through heart and conviction she tried her best to fix her mistakes, but still just a pawn in a massive plan for an even bigger enemy, it fixes her inhumanity hiccups and builds up the terrifying power of the watchers.
Lissandra's status as a villain you're supposed to sympathize with is a little similar to Odysseus, who's essentially a mass murderer who is not even above sacrificing his own men to Circe and / or Scylla and / or Zeus in some versions of the story.
With lor, I WISH we could see the inquisitors and the thralls. Smite has a character Tiamat who summons her children and minions. Imagine if lisandra like azir could make her army. The towers could resemble howling abyss. And she summons minions that could die in one or two hits. Really feel like you’re going against HER army. And she’s the queen
It's like the spirit bomb but if Vegeta used it 😂
i hope lissandra could get a mid scope update, maybe something like keep the button to empower the ability and goes on cd
10:53 Pool party Swain would break the bank
about the kit, i feel like Nicky is asking for a kit rework. She's had the same kit for years. I imagine her kit was terrifying on release (and pro play because of nerfs) with the ult
I think the boob window does a good job of balancing the colours on her model, but it's very poorly implemented imo
What if they made her collarbones apparent instead? You get the same split to distinguish the head, while keeping the point of the character intact
"you know what's really engaging though?"
her E?
W
You don't understand, the boob window signifies a window unto her heart. That even if she's cold and imposing, she still has a heart within that darkness, a soft spot as you will to the people she cares about.
I really want a second Frostguard champion; if she's the Freljord's main villain, Lissandra deserves an actually loyal vassal. Someone like the Draklorn Inquisitor from LoR. And give her an actual legendary; Porcelain or Space Groove should have been legendaries, when she's the actual main villain of those skinlines.
Anyone know how many champ reviews we have left? I dont want it to end
Plenty. We’re not even halfway.
Is there more lore to the Frostguard? Because theire look is so cool with theire helmets and these glowing swords. That it would be cool if a captain or someone like this could become a champion in LoL.
Can't wait for the Lewis video 😊
So Lissandra trapped the watchers by killing eveyone she cared about because she was afraid that the watchers were gonna kill everything she cared about? Do I have that right?
tbh I dont really care abt the breast window, it doesnt make her less scary nor does it seem sexy or appealing imo, but again thats just me.
Ah shirtless swain. It indeed was something people wanted. And im so happy he has this skin now
The thing that bothers me most about Lissandra's kit is that she's a dive-mage but she just fucking dies if you dive in. Like you're intended to go in with your heavily telegraphed E and then root with the W and maybe R but like....
She doesn't have any sustain like swain? Maybe if her W was ranged or her passive left frozen effigies of killed champions and/or siege minions & epic monsters she could sap health from idk
Believe it or not, clevage doesnt mean sexy. You can just... wear clothes that have it, like a dress
i will imagine swain shirtless, thank you very much
One day Nicky, One day.
I going to both agree and disagree with the exposed skin. While just having the boob window is silly, IMO she would be better with more exposed skin, not necessarily as a fan service but as you said, she isn't connected to humanity and is known as the ice witch. For me she just looks like she wears the stuff she has on her, imagine how cool (pun not intended) it would be if the "clothes" blended with her making you question if that's part of her skin or not
Many of you will die
But that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. Type character
If I could rework Lissandra, I'd go full mage support. Support is the only lane where she gets any value out of her passive, so what if they leaned in to that. Make her ult able to target teamates, maybe even make her E work like a moving thresh lantern that teamates can grab onto. She's already an extremely defensive mage, all she needs is a few extra tools and you've got a fun peel support that isn't just Lulu or Alistair.
riot uses boob windows and cropped clothes to solve negative space
If i were trying to make myself the hero of the story, I'd probably use clothing that depicts me in an attractive figure as well. Makes the story more appealing.
Alternatively, if im an ancient ice witch living like a bad bitch in the frozen north, Imma dress the part. Full on supervillain fit right there
Wasn't Swain made substantially more attractive when he got reworked? He used to be this hobbling old man. Also, Lissandra's lore is bad, like BFA/SL sylvanas bad. "I can do this laundry list of despicable evil acts, because there's actually some even greater generic evil threat!"
I feel like broken covenant lissandra could work
Lissandra should be permanently near-sighted or blinded in gameplay. That would be funny and balanced I think
"A human should not sacrifice the loves of her entire people, pretend to be the hero of the entire story, while they're the one who caused all the problems" you could make a political party out of this
Her "new" passive is terrible. They took a type of ability that was deemed to be outdated already and decided it was an upgrade. She just just have resets.
Question: The watchers is the void or entire other things?
To be fair, Lissadra was created a while back, pretty sure she'd not or it be less if she was more modern but remember, she was made back when that was the ideal female characters. And while I will disagree with him with the whole freljordian mages are boring; playstyle-wise, (btw, Nicky there are only two mages in the freljord apart from Aurora... And anivia is only boring if people are into the the 1v9, heal too much, billion dashes, champions...), Lissandra is very interesting lore wise, think about it, she basically is the reason darkin exist too.
4:30 well it’s a good thing the watchers don’t have cleanse😂
what about garden party lissandra? 😢
as a main Liss I have only one complain
WHY THE DAMAGE IS SO LOWWW
I love Lissandra man, I'm not good with the champ but i love the lore and personality. Yeah, i like the boob window btw
14:19 u said cool
I just realized you sound just like funke
Bro Zari is jungle???
Hey its Lizzy
She's just wearing a dress, a lot of dresses have cleavage. For me it's no problem, unlike Ashe for example.
wait, there are people who know what they're doing when playing TFT?
"Imagine if Swain was shirtless"
Me : way ahead of you buddy
Nick: "I know a lot of people already have"
Me : "mum help nickyboi is reading my thoughts again"