I just want to say thank you. A huge string of synchronicities that lead me on the path to Orthodox Christianity includes you. Kanye West, Jordan Peterson, C.S Lewis and meister Eckhart and yourself are the reason I've been attending liturgy with my family for the last few months and we are now on the path to baptism. Again, thank you.
Wow I don’t think I’ve heard anybody string together those influences together, as is the case with me, especially Kanye, Pageau and Meister Eckhart. I started going to liturgy with my young daughter but not sure if my wife will ever be interested.
@@jaysunrickards If you believe in the miracle of God bringing you to Orthodoxy via a group of some seemingly unlikely influences of the faith, then pray and believe the same can happen for you wife one day! The stories of how God brings His people to Him are all amazing and seem impossible. As the saying goes, acquire the Spirit of God within and a thousand around you will be saved. Please pray for your wife! I say this as a wife whose husband said little out loud about Orthodoxy for the first 12 years of our marriage. Then, I wanted to go deeper in my RC faith and in doing so I decided I need to explore Orthodoxy. Our family of 5 was chrismated 4 years ago. And bless you for taking your young daughter to church with you! 😊
I have been on a similar path. JBP and C.S.Lewis have been unexpected and helpful guides for me, but Jonathan has opened my heart and soul up to what Christianity means to me. As lifelong Protestant who attended Catholic school, I sought to convert to Catholicism during the height of the pandemic. I was listening to tons of Jonathan's content at this time and decided that Catholicism may not be my path at this moment. I've located several orthodox churches in my area and want to visit them soon. Since Christ loves each and every one of us as individuals, believers and non believers, I'm always experiencing Christ through many individuals, often to my surprise. Blessings to you on this infinitely mysterious and wonderful path that is learning to walk with Christ!
@A look up St Nektarios' Hymn O Virgin Pure Immaculate. There are also videos with the Hymn: look up "O Virgin Pure-Orthodox Byzantine Chant" on TH-cam. It's by Fr Hill, in English.
Jonathan, your conversational skill coupled with your seemingly limitless patience and humility makes your 'corner' of the internet about the only corner worth devoting attention to. May your words and demeanor continue to put the mind of the Church on full display. Glory to God!
What he needs is some testosterone and even more critical thinking. The horrors of the church have been on display for 20 centuries. The christ cult is one of the most disgusting and immoral religions to ever exist.
The modern world needs people talking about femininity, and the woman’s journey. The female “hero” is the virgin. We desperately need talk on how to redeem lost woman. When virginity is long gone, how can a woman become whole again. The relationship between Mary the mother of God and Mary Magdalene.
The Québécois. He's answering to the Québécois. Thank you so so much for this great talk. Absolutely fantastic on all levels : spiritual, intellectual, cultural. Helped me grow even more in my devotion to the Mother of God. Also, I get now why we meditate on the Mysteries of the life of Christ in the Rosary. Being a devotion to Mary, she is the one who asks the questions and points to Christ.
Enlightening work! Thanks so much! We choose our rituals and "they're not arbitrary." What we participate in -in every action-will have fruit. I love that! We need only to look to our daily routines to see the path we've chosen and how it can be beautiful and how it can change for the better. " faith to faith"
I wonder if it's that or if it's a matter of us listening to him so many times and making sense of what he's saying better. Probably a combination of the two.
Mary is the perfect Christian and she shows us how to be Christian. At the Annunciation, her “yes” to God and surrender to His will is an example for us all.
Interesting conversation - asking for a deeper expansion of ideas or patterns, even when I think I know what Jonathan is saying, yields more little bits that we can then gather together in ourselves for silent contemplation. Thank you both!
It was a Catholic priest who said that it is the mother who prepares the bride for the marriage. Also, the queen in the old testament was the mother. There are so many layers to Mary's importance. Even more so because she is kept veiled in utter modesty. She is the ultimate example of quiet strength, there was no other way for her but to embody that wisdom of God. She said yes and undid the no of Eve. Through her the saviour of us all, all of humanity is born. How holy does someone have to be to qualify as the vessel of God into this world? I used to think as a protestant in the past, when I didn't understand some of this multidimential nature of Christianity. And yet I know Mary came into my life and she was at least a part of my turning to Christ our Lord. If we love God, we love all whom God loves. As Christians we are reborn into a huge heavenly family, and Mother of Our Lord is a beautiful part of the family.
The Blessed Virgin Mary is our Gebirah and our Ark of the New Covenant. Whenever you feel unsteady, anxious or unsure, look towards our Holy Mother, she will protect you under her mantle.
I remember in my youth, the realization that "stoners stand/sit in a circle." Of course, we thought it was funny. But now, I see there was something to that Jonathan pointed out in his commentary here.
"She" is the thought behind the thoughts that form our reality. the 13th dimension, the Aether, the All *different from source* who is the 12D, the light sound. She is the thought of source light/sound who is the Father who's sound produces the logos or the Word through her. - or something like that hehe
@@ProfessorToadstool I meant Mary. Auto correct got me. Mary is the material world, the water, the mother of all that exists here in the material world. The mother of God because Jesus was born here in matter, but not God herself. Still subject to the true God's will.
@@PresidentoftheManosquare Its nonsense. Woman is below Man. The woman was birthed from the Man. Jesus is not God. He was the Christ. The blessed. The anointed. He was granted the power of God, limited by the material world. He is the representation of God in the body of Man. Birthed of the woman, reborn of the Father. Catholicism is a Matriarchal cult. A literal Blasphemy against God in practice. Mary was supposed to represent the perfect Mother. Instead the Catholics elevated her, and turned her into the devouring mother. This woman is the manifestation of the feminist cult that is the Catholic church.
Mother Mary is portrayed in the NT as taking note of things and then quietly putting them away . Isn't that what true wisdom is ? You take notice of something and tuck those things away but when you need it it'll be there for you.
this was awesome! still, the Virgin is higher than Mary, Mary is one of its phenomena. that's why in the book of Revelation we see the Virgin as Israel, Mary, and the Church, and as a co-vision with the Ark, in the previous vision, because the Virgin and the Ark are a subset of the Feminine.
I'm dying to hear your thoughts on the symbolism of Mary Magdalene... It seems like Mary Mother of God and Mary Magdalene stand together as two feminine archetypes that make up the opposite sides of the same coin. Magdalene seems to represent more of the chaos / tails side of the feminine principle (if you follow the traditional association with the woman with the perfume/Martha's sister) - while Mary Mother of God is the pure container / heads side of the coin, representing ordered or considerate matter. Both seem to represent the Church in her complex identity. Magdalene being the apostle to the apostles, sharing the good news with them and the first to encounter Christ risen (I'm picturing vines spreading everywhere) - Mother Mary being the "body of Christ" herself (a container). We look at the relationship between Eve and the Virgin Mary often, but Magdalene seems to be the fruit of the New Eve... The first spiritual daughter of Mary perhaps? It makes sense why we associate Magdalene with the mythological bride of Christ, (though they never actually married) because she's the first born of the Church, Mary being the Church's mother... Symbolically the wife and sister of Christ. (Song of Songs anyone?) Oh man, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this!
@@JonathanPageau Mary = bitter = the waters of creation? No, not possible, I say. This is not Christianity. There are three Marys and none of them are as important as Jesus. That's the way I learned it as a kid, and I am not going for this goddess worship.
@@watermelonlalalait is our Christology which informs our view of Mary, friend. It was the high view of Christ which led the Church to give Mary the title "Theotokos." If we had a lower view of Christ, we'd have a lower view of Mary. Who did she bear? The infinite. The uncreated creator of all. Christology is at the core of all eastern theology (historic christianity), and Jesus Christ is the root of our understanding of everything.
@@sovereigngrace9723 Christianity = Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Father the Creator. Son the Savior. Mary not in there. I have an old religion book, grade 5. Saint Mary!!! "We don't worship saints. While they lived on earth, they were great heroes and heroines. We pray to them. We show them respect. We worship God alone. Only God works miracles. Saints can obtain miracles for us from God. Mary, most powerful saint in heaven. Our prayers through Mary, our Mother, are most powerful with God, our Father. Let us say often, Mary Immaculate, pray for us. " Recap, not writing an essay here.
Eastern Orthodox services are a good start. March 25 is the Annunciation, where the Angel Gabriel heralds the coming Christ to Mary, the God bearer. There might be some services on that day which are especially full of symbolism of Mary.
Since Judeo Christian tradition has a patriarchal aspect, I wonder if Mary captures the idea of birthing/nurturing, the world-Not as a literal role for women, but as an ideal for how we all act in the world.
Mother Father the Son Both Parents of the Mother, Both Parents of the Father and the Son 7 total. Now the Parents of the Grand parents on both sides as the great Grand Parents
23:32 God is not being, He not competing for space with created beings. If He would be like beings ( objects,people ) they would ne destroyed when He apears but he is outside all of these ( time space matter ) so when He comes near something He makes it more alive
Coincidence? ...I just had a fight with my writing pad about this today. The visceral sensation of the female "thing of beauty". It took a rat to be caught and a purple owl to perch, but it was finally found. Amen. The enduring presence of Mary is in the devotion we have for this earth. This place which was created inside her and birthed into reality as the Virgin or Pure energy of God's love. It is the spark of consciousness coming into contact with the greater whole of humanity. It is said in the art history study of the female form, the images offer glimpses into the social, political and cultural atmosphere of the times. Freud offers the notion of men developing the Madonna Jezebel complex, whereby Madonna represents the virtuous & chase (-1), and the Jezebel as seductive & deceptive(+1). In the social arrangement of those times, it served well to "normalized and perpetuate" specific conventions for each gender and the allocation of objects. Over the centuries this has always been case as the primary balance of power in a growing world economic system. Today it is not as well handled with the increase of digital media. However I think it is probably best suited as the opponent processing (-1+1) algorithm for better accuracy of balancing the power for distributing information across the world. The rat was an analogy for outing that thing in the mind that prevents one from seeing the proper context of things. Hail Mary Mother of God we honor You and the many worlds of the Sacred Heart - A Pillar of Wisdom.
This is all very new to me. What is the difference between an Eastern Orthodox church and a Russian Orthodox church? ...Also The Saint Peter & Paul Orthodox church? These are the 3 I've found in the area I live and I'm trying to figure out which to attend.
The Russian Orthodox are a member church of the larger Eastern Orthodox Communion (which contains the Greek Church, Antioch, Serbia, Romania, etc.). The differences are in jurisdiction not in faith or even liturgy for the most part.
I find that a lot of young women who move to Wicca and other witchcraft based religions are searching for that “divine feminine” which these religions offer in spades but in the Christin Faith we have the Virgin. Not divine, but probably as close as anyone can get without being a member of the godhead. I wonder how many would rethink Wicca if they knew about Marian traditions and devotion.
Hello Jonathan. Le escribí en español por qué quiero preguntarle cuáles son los límites del simbolismo. Porque en español no es lo mismo Santa claus Es que Santa claus Está.
Jesus humanity was through Mary yes and the Holy Spirit Yes His divinity as the Son of God is way before Mary In the beginning this Son was God With God The Word
Honest question: 1) is it alright to have more devotion to Mary than JESUS himself? This is what i have o observed from some. 2) is it okay to pray to Mary rather than JESUS?
It is supposed to be praying through Mary to Jesus. Though I grant you, some devotions to Mary seem to get the balance wrong. I think the thing is not to judge, not to ride roughshod on another's devotion. Look at the fruits. If devotion to Mary leads to obsession with visions and seers and end times, then the fruit is bad. If it leads to Christ, to the praise of God, to peace and brotherly love, then it is good. But don't judge the devotee, we have no idea what is going on inside them and how broken they are. One other point is that the closer you draw in devotion to Mary, the more Satan will try to stop this. I suggest that this is proof that devotion to Mary as shown in Orthodoxy, is a good thing!
I wish Jonathan would’ve spoken more about the mysteries of Mary rather than go around it and kept mentioning the gathering or signifier without explaining what’s being . Is it just me or doesn’t seem like He wasn’t being transparent!?
The clearest description of art I have thus far come across🪴 I am a naive artist, at times an unaware conduit for impulse energy to reorganise its self. “To drink water, we contain it and ingest it then perhaps feel thankful, renewed, replenished even relief and carry on with life, with little thought to the container that held the life giving source… So if you seek to understand the mystery of container then would the container become the focus and so sacred not one person was allowed to use we would all dehydrate, and also we would dehydrate without the container to hold the water….🤔?? ‘Two equal parts required, equal in purpose, not in form’
Not an uncommon conversation between East (Orthodox) & West (Roman Catholicism): two different languages and understanding. Not a criticism. A reality that requires a significant effort to attain understanding.
The Trinity never does 'outside' of itself what it is not 'within' itself. Perichoresis. Mutual indwelling. Creation's telos is to perichoreticly participate in the verb that ís Trinity & kenosis. The Incarnation is the 'end' of the process of creation and thus the start & 'beginning' of creation finally finished and have eventually been created. Creation, as process!, is 'finished'! The incarnation, Trinity pouring itself out into (KENOSIS) and mutually dwelling inside, was thus inevitable in design & blueprint. God created us to participate in His eternal life. The incarnation is the reason of and for creation. It was always meant, the eschaton, with or without the fall. And in its historical event, the issue of missing that mark is ofcourse shattered.
Marriage Finger 2 Finger 4 Finger 9 finger 7 Pending where you start the Count. Piano Center C from Right to Left the Ring Finger is number 9 but From Left to Right it is the Second Finger with the Palm DOwn the Fourth Finger Palm Up pending if you Begin at the Pinkey or the Thumb Mars 4th Planet Birth 9th Month BOth Math Mars. But the Center Finger is 3rd and 8th Only Thats Earth C Creation, 8 Heavens Creation 38 CH U r CH. V1 GIN MARS MARS V1 MArs is number 51 V1 Roamn Numbers
😊🦅🦁🕊️☝️ The Father say 🤔 On the MTN Listen To my Son Another time This voice comes For a reason 🤔 Jesus was being baptized by John John was going to way You are the lamb 🐑 of God It's off the chain ⛓️ hey 😊 I love the Bible Father Son Holy Spirit They are my best friends Friend ❤️ Jesus had to be terminated In his old Adam life John didn't see Jesus said it's ok John For now we need to do this Father agreed 👍💯 The first Adam Became a living soul The last Adam Became 🤔 A life giving Spirit On the MTN Who were there Peter say Let's make three tabernacles Moses Elijah Christ Then Father come Remove Moses Remove Elijah Only One Way Easy as Listen to My Son Hear Him 🦅❤️ Much love I appreciate This conversation Johnathan My point Where is Mary Abba Father in these written scenes 🤔
THe Fleur de Lys Two Sides , when I do the Art and Cut it Out I end up with Circles and what I have depicted is Earth and MArs The ere are TWo Moons on Mars One on Earth. Seems Like We are Split up THe Left Side and the Right Side. THe Pi ANO 36 black keys 52 white No black keys next to the B+F So Left to Right 24 the cat 24 Five 42 Nine 42, the Math 2x4=8, 2+4=6. THe Two DIe Reverse is 8+6 the Casinos or odds have this at place 6 and collect Seven. The reverse Cube is 6/8 or 15/62 Mars 51 Queen 62, 24/35, 33/44 33Mas Jesus . Then the Math. Games seem to add dimention . The Math as well the Cube or Rubix 74 Jesus 74 4 x7=28 Cycle takes 4 cubes to complete the full cycle three moons and 84 Plut the 9th Planet? ASk please to explain more best I can
Old creation 🤔 New creation 🤔 In Christ there is noo longer Male or female New or Greek ....... Slave or free man..... 🤔 But Christ is all And in all..... Paul was clear .... ❤️
Images 🤔 I read Only One God say No other Christ is the image Of God Hebrews Genesis 1: 26 Let us make man In our image And after our likeness Mary wasn't born yet 🤔
The mystery is not in Mary. It is in Jesus Christ the "mystery of God and the Father and of Christ: In whom are hid ALL the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. And this I say, lest any man beguile you with enticing words... beware lest any spoil you through philosophy or vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ, For IN HIM dwelleth ALL the fulness of the Godhead BODILY." Colossians 2:1-9
Christ was crucified and buried Raised resurrected and ascent To the right hand of God Where is Mary 🤔 In the good part of hades Paradise with the other saints Saints are all the christians The letters of the new testament are written to the saints in each locality which are the local churches To the saints in Ephesus To the saints in Corinth To the saints Grace and peace from God the Father and our lord Jesus Christ 😊 Not Mary ...I'm reading......
"Christ's body doesn't come from anybody else but her." Not only is this biologically wrong, it is scripturally wrong and could lead someone into heresy.
@@Fisherman4244 Jesus is fully Man and fully God. It's biologically impossible to get a man from only female genes. The Holy Spirit provided what was needed. To say that it was only Mary is to give her more credit for the incarnation than God intended.
@@martinmurry3 'biologically impossible' did you know that it's also biologically impossible to rise from the dead 3 days after being crucified? And yet that also happened.
We can appreciate Mary John Paul Cephas ..Peter.. Paul say 🤔 Is Christ divided Who was crucified for you Paul No Mary no James No Who are we following The point of Who is gathering who 🤔 Not much mentioning of Christ The Holy Spirit 🤔 Mmm 🤔
Christ personates us not merry. Christ gathers us and himself. Mary did not include us in herself. That's the doctrine of the incarnation also proverbs 8 shows that there was a body and there was a soul before he is born in a Virgin's wound. That holy thing and she calls him her savior by the way, neither she perpetually sent less and neither is she a perpetual Virgin?
She is a perpetual Virgin. You should pray to the Lord to help you to overcome your unbelief (Mark 9, 24). You have no reason to hate her. It s pathological...
That Christ gathers us and not Mary is only true if you're not reducing Christ to "historical person Jesus of Nazareth". In which case, yeah, you're entirely correct on that.
Mary is the perfect embodiment of the teachings of his son. If you would lead a life only in Christ, with Christ in your heart, your mouth, your deeds, then you would ressemble Mary.
@@Bicicletasaladas Christ is already that symbol, having lived with all the hurdles of earthly life. Why should Christians try to resemble Mary, shouldn't Christians want to resemble Christ?
If nothing in this video would make you think otherwise, then nothing anyone else can say will make you think otherwise 🤷🏻♂️ Jonathan's laying it out just about as clearly as anyone can.
@@ArtwithBen the point is, Christ is the archetype, not the symbol. Mary is the symbol. St. Paul admonishes his spiritual children, many times, to emulate him (St. Paul), because he emulates Christ Jesus.
She does have an off putting quality of speaking, or is it her voice? I think she is sincere, though. Remember, she’s managing a “zoom” gathering, which may not present her most authentic manner. Jonathan does not disappoint, however!
God has blessed you more than any other woman! He has also blessed the child you will have. Why should "the mother of my Lord" come to me? Luke1:43-44 And David was afraid of the Lord that day, and he said, “How can the ark of the Lord come to me?” 2: Samuel 6:9
That’s a Nestorian heresy to say that. Christ -the second (the Son) and pre-eternal person of the trinity incarnated and is fully man and fully God, 2 natures, one person. One hypostases. He took humanity and ascended it to the right hand of the Father. He is the only begotten Son of the Father, and the only son born of the Theotokos, Mary who gave him a body through the Holy Spirit. She is not a goddess, not a demigod, like many protestants claim we believe. To say God has no mother is to deny Christ’s divinity or else his humanity. He became man to save us. If you do not affirm the Theotokos, your Christology is wrong. May God bless you! And have mercy on us all.
Go tell a pagan "God has a mother" and who will they worship? Of course the Son of God Jesus came to earth through a human mother. That does not mean that the statement: "Mary, the mother of God" is an accurate way to describe Mary, the human vessel. These are deceptive word games. Think about what you are saying, and look at the fruit. Look at the woman in this video. She doesn't want to give honor to Jesus Christ. Does she say the name of Jesus, even one time? Even when Jonathan tries to redirect her to Jesus she keeps going back to her fascination with Mary. It's a distraction from Jesus the incarnate Christ, the Son of God. Put your focus on Jesus alone!
@@Angel-cu5mf if you have a problem talking to pagans about the FULL nature of Jesus thats on you sir. The facts still remain and have since the early church. Jesus dies for all of us because He did not speak what the majority wanted to hear, pagans or otherwise. One thing is for sure, the Bible, which i assume you glean much of your knowledge from, came from the same church the “Theotokos” doctrine came from and from some of the same bishops. These are verifiable historical facts. BTW we do put our focus on Jesus alone as we eat His body and drink His blood in the Mass and no one else. 👍🏻 Peace!!!
The Mysteries are not questions but answers that can only be obtained by seeking in the dark You kids have a LOT of catching up to do, have care you don't mistake what you call trees for what you call a forest
McGee, brother, please be careful. No genuine theoria is possible without Christ-like humility and love. If you think you are advanced and well beyond others in knowledge I beg you to be cautious and to at least take the time to genuinely question that assumption. We all take different paths, you may have been graced to see some things that others have not, but there may be other areas in which you are unknowingly deficient. Either way, every good gift is from God. Forgive me and God bless.
A mystery quite literally means a question, and every question has contained within it an answer. However the question creates the frame or limits for the answer to operate in. For example, if I ask “What color is an apple?” That is a question, and the question creates a boundary and rules that the answer must adhere to. The answer must be a color, and the answer must be about an apple. Therefore Mary presents a question “How can a virgin be pregnant?” Christ is the answer.
Sorry but she just seems really ditsy to me. There's little to no evidence in this video that she's understanding anything you're saying. I'm sure she's getting at least some of it, but the back-and-forth here is basically non-existent.
Thank you. I wish we could be naive but this woman works for a foundation and also for Princeton seminary. Both places of immense corruption. Good thing’s don’t come from places like that.
I just want to say thank you. A huge string of synchronicities that lead me on the path to Orthodox Christianity includes you. Kanye West, Jordan Peterson, C.S Lewis and meister Eckhart and yourself are the reason I've been attending liturgy with my family for the last few months and we are now on the path to baptism. Again, thank you.
Wow I don’t think I’ve heard anybody string together those influences together, as is the case with me, especially Kanye, Pageau and Meister Eckhart. I started going to liturgy with my young daughter but not sure if my wife will ever be interested.
@@jaysunrickards If you believe in the miracle of God bringing you to Orthodoxy via a group of some seemingly unlikely influences of the faith, then pray and believe the same can happen for you wife one day! The stories of how God brings His people to Him are all amazing and seem impossible. As the saying goes, acquire the Spirit of God within and a thousand around you will be saved.
Please pray for your wife! I say this as a wife whose husband said little out loud about Orthodoxy for the first 12 years of our marriage. Then, I wanted to go deeper in my RC faith and in doing so I decided I need to explore Orthodoxy. Our family of 5 was chrismated 4 years ago. And bless you for taking your young daughter to church with you! 😊
@A Same here. Wondering if Plato's divided line, Grimes, Allan Watts, Kurt Gödel.
I have been on a similar path. JBP and C.S.Lewis have been unexpected and helpful guides for me, but Jonathan has opened my heart and soul up to what Christianity means to me. As lifelong Protestant who attended Catholic school, I sought to convert to Catholicism during the height of the pandemic. I was listening to tons of Jonathan's content at this time and decided that Catholicism may not be my path at this moment. I've located several orthodox churches in my area and want to visit them soon.
Since Christ loves each and every one of us as individuals, believers and non believers, I'm always experiencing Christ through many individuals, often to my surprise.
Blessings to you on this infinitely mysterious and wonderful path that is learning to walk with Christ!
@A look up St Nektarios' Hymn O Virgin Pure Immaculate. There are also videos with the Hymn: look up "O Virgin Pure-Orthodox Byzantine Chant" on TH-cam. It's by Fr Hill, in English.
Jonathan, your conversational skill coupled with your seemingly limitless patience and humility makes your 'corner' of the internet about the only corner worth devoting attention to. May your words and demeanor continue to put the mind of the Church on full display. Glory to God!
What he needs is some testosterone and even more critical thinking. The horrors of the church have been on display for 20 centuries. The christ cult is one of the most disgusting and immoral religions to ever exist.
Thank you for talking about Mary so wonderfully, Jonathan. I'll pray for you. Pray for me also.
The modern world needs people talking about femininity, and the woman’s journey. The female “hero” is the virgin. We desperately need talk on how to redeem lost woman. When virginity is long gone, how can a woman become whole again. The relationship between Mary the mother of God and Mary Magdalene.
The Québécois. He's answering to the Québécois.
Thank you so so much for this great talk. Absolutely fantastic on all levels : spiritual, intellectual, cultural. Helped me grow even more in my devotion to the Mother of God.
Also, I get now why we meditate on the Mysteries of the life of Christ in the Rosary. Being a devotion to Mary, she is the one who asks the questions and points to Christ.
Enlightening work! Thanks so much!
We choose our rituals and "they're not arbitrary."
What we participate in -in every action-will have fruit.
I love that! We need only to look to our daily routines to see the path we've chosen and how it can be beautiful and how it can change for the better.
" faith to faith"
Everything our Blessed Mother does points us towards Jesus.
Thanks for the clarity, the veil is sacred knowledge. I'm to treat it as such. 📘🙏🔥❤️
Thank you
Mary is the bridge between heaven and earth. She allowed God the be born in human flesh and to being grace into the world so he can live in our hearts
She is! She is the second Eve the one who says "yes" to God. She defeats Satan and affirms our relationship to God.
Thanks
Hail Mary
Johns getting REALLY good at explaining his stuff
I wonder if it's that or if it's a matter of us listening to him so many times and making sense of what he's saying better. Probably a combination of the two.
Mary is the perfect Christian and she shows us how to be Christian. At the Annunciation, her “yes” to God and surrender to His will is an example for us all.
Interesting conversation - asking for a deeper expansion of ideas or patterns, even when I think I know what Jonathan is saying, yields more little bits that we can then gather together in ourselves for silent contemplation. Thank you both!
I LOVE SPORTS ANALOGIES - just so effective
This was so wonderful to listen to while actively working on icons for a church
The Mystery of mysteries and the most beautiful.
Wonderful questions
Wow! It’s all there.
The woman with her cloak protecting/sheltering the people
is titled all ways
My Lady of Mercy, as far as I know.
Amazing ! Thank you ❤🙏✝️☦️
It was a Catholic priest who said that it is the mother who prepares the bride for the marriage. Also, the queen in the old testament was the mother. There are so many layers to Mary's importance. Even more so because she is kept veiled in utter modesty. She is the ultimate example of quiet strength, there was no other way for her but to embody that wisdom of God. She said yes and undid the no of Eve. Through her the saviour of us all, all of humanity is born. How holy does someone have to be to qualify as the vessel of God into this world? I used to think as a protestant in the past, when I didn't understand some of this multidimential nature of Christianity. And yet I know Mary came into my life and she was at least a part of my turning to Christ our Lord. If we love God, we love all whom God loves. As Christians we are reborn into a huge heavenly family, and Mother of Our Lord is a beautiful part of the family.
May you hear the word of life Jonathan! Our Mother St. Virgin Mary bless you more on your Christian journey.
🕎✝️
The Blessed Virgin Mary is our Gebirah and our Ark of the New Covenant. Whenever you feel unsteady, anxious or unsure, look towards our Holy Mother, she will protect you under her mantle.
How one can teach smtg not possible to explain and w/o understanding ?
Thank you, Jonathan!
What is the enduring presence of Mary? She hadn’t thought about it much
I remember in my youth, the realization that "stoners stand/sit in a circle."
Of course, we thought it was funny. But now, I see there was something to that Jonathan pointed out in his commentary here.
"She" is the thought behind the thoughts that form our reality. the 13th dimension, the Aether, the All *different from source* who is the 12D, the light sound. She is the thought of source light/sound who is the Father who's sound produces the logos or the Word through her. - or something like that hehe
Wow. An actual tv-program where one of the agendas is not to lie. This is unheard of. Wow, people have started to make tv programmes again...
Can you comment on the symbolism of the veil being torn in the tabernacle with the death of Christ?
Was wondering about how the Virgin Marys husband Joseph fits into the mystery and any symbolic meaning about Joseph?
Not guna lie… I pressed like before I watched it haha. Yewwwww
Mary is the material world, it is not consumed by God but exists, burns
Maya, it's called Maya
@@ProfessorToadstool I meant Mary. Auto correct got me. Mary is the material world, the water, the mother of all that exists here in the material world. The mother of God because Jesus was born here in matter, but not God herself. Still subject to the true God's will.
@@PresidentoftheManosquare Its nonsense. Woman is below Man. The woman was birthed from the Man. Jesus is not God. He was the Christ. The blessed. The anointed. He was granted the power of God, limited by the material world. He is the representation of God in the body of Man. Birthed of the woman, reborn of the Father.
Catholicism is a Matriarchal cult. A literal Blasphemy against God in practice.
Mary was supposed to represent the perfect Mother. Instead the Catholics elevated her, and turned her into the devouring mother.
This woman is the manifestation of the feminist cult that is the Catholic church.
4E cognitive science really meets its fullfillment in Christianity at the archetype of Mary! (Embodyment of the Logos/Dao/One/Brahman)
Mother Mary is portrayed in the NT as taking note of things and then quietly putting them away . Isn't that what true wisdom is ? You take notice of something and tuck those things away but when you need it it'll be there for you.
this was awesome!
still, the Virgin is higher than Mary, Mary is one of its phenomena. that's why in the book of Revelation we see the Virgin as Israel, Mary, and the Church, and as a co-vision with the Ark, in the previous vision, because the Virgin and the Ark are a subset of the Feminine.
🙏🌅🕊
I'm dying to hear your thoughts on the symbolism of Mary Magdalene... It seems like Mary Mother of God and Mary Magdalene stand together as two feminine archetypes that make up the opposite sides of the same coin.
Magdalene seems to represent more of the chaos / tails side of the feminine principle (if you follow the traditional association with the woman with the perfume/Martha's sister) - while Mary Mother of God is the pure container / heads side of the coin, representing ordered or considerate matter.
Both seem to represent the Church in her complex identity. Magdalene being the apostle to the apostles, sharing the good news with them and the first to encounter Christ risen (I'm picturing vines spreading everywhere) - Mother Mary being the "body of Christ" herself (a container).
We look at the relationship between Eve and the Virgin Mary often, but Magdalene seems to be the fruit of the New Eve... The first spiritual daughter of Mary perhaps?
It makes sense why we associate Magdalene with the mythological bride of Christ, (though they never actually married) because she's the first born of the Church, Mary being the Church's mother... Symbolically the wife and sister of Christ. (Song of Songs anyone?)
Oh man, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this!
You'll like this then. orthodoxartsjournal.org/two-images-of-the-church-and-why-they-should-not-be-confused/
@@JonathanPageau Thank you! And you are correct, I liked it very much. 😃
@@JonathanPageau Mary = bitter = the waters of creation? No, not possible, I say. This is not Christianity. There are three Marys and none of them are as important as Jesus. That's the way I learned it as a kid, and I am not going for this goddess worship.
@@watermelonlalalait is our Christology which informs our view of Mary, friend. It was the high view of Christ which led the Church to give Mary the title "Theotokos." If we had a lower view of Christ, we'd have a lower view of Mary. Who did she bear? The infinite. The uncreated creator of all.
Christology is at the core of all eastern theology (historic christianity), and Jesus Christ is the root of our understanding of everything.
@@sovereigngrace9723 Christianity = Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Father the Creator. Son the Savior. Mary not in there. I have an old religion book, grade 5. Saint Mary!!! "We don't worship saints. While they lived on earth, they were great heroes and heroines. We pray to them. We show them respect. We worship God alone. Only God works miracles. Saints can obtain miracles for us from God. Mary, most powerful saint in heaven. Our prayers through Mary, our Mother, are most powerful with God, our Father. Let us say often, Mary Immaculate, pray for us. " Recap, not writing an essay here.
Hi and thank you for fascinating talk. Where can I go to learn more about the symbolism of Mary?
Eastern Orthodox services are a good start. March 25 is the Annunciation, where the Angel Gabriel heralds the coming Christ to Mary, the God bearer. There might be some services on that day which are especially full of symbolism of Mary.
23:20 reminds me of how Christian-neoplatonism solves the issue of the 'One and the many problem'.
Since Judeo Christian tradition has a patriarchal aspect, I wonder if Mary captures the idea of birthing/nurturing, the world-Not as a literal role for women, but as an ideal for how we all act in the world.
Mother Father the Son
Both Parents of the Mother, Both Parents of the Father and the Son 7 total. Now the Parents of the Grand parents on both sides as the great Grand Parents
23:32 God is not being, He not competing for space with created beings. If He would be like beings ( objects,people ) they would ne destroyed when He apears but he is outside all of these ( time space matter ) so when He comes near something He makes it more alive
This intro is trippy
Coincidence? ...I just had a fight with my writing pad about this today. The visceral sensation of the female "thing of beauty". It took a rat to be caught and a purple owl to perch, but it was finally found. Amen.
The enduring presence of Mary is in the devotion we have for this earth. This place which was created inside her and birthed into reality as the Virgin or Pure energy of God's love. It is the spark of consciousness coming into contact with the greater whole of humanity.
It is said in the art history study of the female form, the images offer glimpses into the social, political and cultural atmosphere of the times. Freud offers the notion of men developing the Madonna Jezebel complex, whereby Madonna represents the virtuous & chase (-1), and the Jezebel as seductive & deceptive(+1).
In the social arrangement of those times, it served well to "normalized and perpetuate" specific conventions for each gender and the allocation of objects. Over the centuries this has always been case as the primary balance of power in a growing world economic system.
Today it is not as well handled with the increase of digital media. However I think it is probably best suited as the opponent processing (-1+1) algorithm for better accuracy of balancing the power for distributing information across the world.
The rat was an analogy for outing that thing in the mind that prevents one from seeing the proper context of things. Hail Mary Mother of God we honor You and the many worlds of the Sacred Heart - A Pillar of Wisdom.
God bless you Jonathan
“Container of the Uncontainable”
This is all very new to me. What is the difference between an Eastern Orthodox church and a Russian Orthodox church?
...Also The Saint Peter & Paul Orthodox church? These are the 3 I've found in the area I live and I'm trying to figure out which to attend.
The Russian Orthodox are a member church of the larger Eastern Orthodox Communion (which contains the Greek Church, Antioch, Serbia, Romania, etc.). The differences are in jurisdiction not in faith or even liturgy for the most part.
@@prestonphillips9545 I see, thank you!
I find that a lot of young women who move to Wicca and other witchcraft based religions are searching for that “divine feminine” which these religions offer in spades but in the Christin Faith we have the Virgin. Not divine, but probably as close as anyone can get without being a member of the godhead. I wonder how many would rethink Wicca if they knew about Marian traditions and devotion.
Container
Fire
Mmm
Men in the fire
One like the Son of Man is there
😁
Anyone else
🤔
Hello Jonathan. Le escribí en español por qué quiero preguntarle cuáles son los límites del simbolismo. Porque en español no es lo mismo Santa claus Es que Santa claus Está.
Jesus humanity was through Mary yes and the Holy Spirit
Yes
His divinity as the Son of God is way before Mary
In the beginning this Son was God
With God
The Word
Honest question:
1) is it alright to have more devotion to Mary than JESUS himself?
This is what i have o observed from some.
2) is it okay to pray to Mary rather than JESUS?
It is supposed to be praying through Mary to Jesus. Though I grant you, some devotions to Mary seem to get the balance wrong. I think the thing is not to judge, not to ride roughshod on another's devotion. Look at the fruits. If devotion to Mary leads to obsession with visions and seers and end times, then the fruit is bad. If it leads to Christ, to the praise of God, to peace and brotherly love, then it is good. But don't judge the devotee, we have no idea what is going on inside them and how broken they are.
One other point is that the closer you draw in devotion to Mary, the more Satan will try to stop this. I suggest that this is proof that devotion to Mary as shown in Orthodoxy, is a good thing!
Container
🤔
Ark
Holy of Holiest
The container
Word of God
Through which all things were created
🤯
I wish Jonathan would’ve spoken more about the mysteries of Mary rather than go around it and kept mentioning the gathering or signifier without explaining what’s being . Is it just me or doesn’t seem like He wasn’t being transparent!?
The clearest description of art I have thus far come across🪴 I am a naive artist, at times an unaware conduit for impulse energy to reorganise its self.
“To drink water, we contain it and ingest it then perhaps feel thankful, renewed, replenished even relief and carry on with life, with little thought to the container that held the life giving source…
So if you seek to understand the mystery of container then would the container become the focus and so sacred not one person was allowed to use we would all dehydrate, and also we would dehydrate without the container to hold the water….🤔??
‘Two equal parts required, equal in purpose, not in form’
Not an uncommon conversation between East (Orthodox) & West (Roman Catholicism): two different languages and understanding. Not a criticism. A reality that requires a significant effort to attain understanding.
...was a little odd.
😉the fun of language
18
+
I might read the Bible
Acts
Pentecost again
See what's there
🤔
I can unveil reality with water
The Trinity never does 'outside' of itself what it is not 'within' itself. Perichoresis. Mutual indwelling. Creation's telos is to perichoreticly participate in the verb that ís Trinity & kenosis. The Incarnation is the 'end' of the process of creation and thus the start & 'beginning' of creation finally finished and have eventually been created. Creation, as process!, is 'finished'! The incarnation, Trinity pouring itself out into (KENOSIS) and mutually dwelling inside, was thus inevitable in design & blueprint. God created us to participate in His eternal life. The incarnation is the reason of and for creation. It was always meant, the eschaton, with or without the fall. And in its historical event, the issue of missing that mark is ofcourse shattered.
"the vision of the Christ that thou dost see, is my visions greatest enemy."
-Wm Blake
Ayo shit William talking to demons again
@@andrewternet8370like King James attempting to summon them
@@andrewternet8370 lol 🤫
Marriage Finger 2 Finger 4 Finger 9 finger 7 Pending where you start the Count. Piano Center C from Right to Left the Ring Finger is number 9 but From Left to Right it is the Second Finger with the Palm DOwn the Fourth Finger Palm Up pending if you Begin at the Pinkey or the Thumb Mars 4th Planet Birth 9th Month BOth Math Mars. But the Center Finger is 3rd and 8th Only Thats Earth C Creation, 8 Heavens Creation 38 CH U r CH. V1 GIN MARS MARS V1 MArs is number 51 V1 Roamn Numbers
😊🦅🦁🕊️☝️
The Father say 🤔
On the MTN
Listen
To my Son
Another time
This voice comes
For a reason
🤔
Jesus was being baptized by John
John was going to way You are the lamb 🐑 of God
It's off the chain ⛓️ hey 😊
I love the Bible
Father
Son
Holy Spirit
They are my best friends
Friend
❤️
Jesus had to be terminated
In his old Adam life
John didn't see
Jesus said it's ok John
For now we need to do this
Father agreed 👍💯
The first Adam
Became a living soul
The last Adam
Became 🤔
A life giving Spirit
On the MTN
Who were there
Peter say
Let's make three tabernacles
Moses
Elijah
Christ
Then
Father come
Remove Moses
Remove Elijah
Only One Way
Easy as
Listen to My Son
Hear Him
🦅❤️
Much love
I appreciate
This conversation Johnathan
My point
Where is Mary Abba Father in these written scenes
🤔
Reality
Truth
The Word became flesh
Full of grace and reality
Hail Mary full of grace and truth
Huh
🤔
What
I'm going to read again
John
1
I kind of feel like this lady is condescending?
THe Fleur de Lys Two Sides , when I do the Art and Cut it Out I end up with Circles and what I have depicted is Earth and MArs The ere are TWo Moons on Mars One on Earth. Seems Like We are Split up THe Left Side and the Right Side. THe Pi ANO 36 black keys 52 white No black keys next to the B+F So Left to Right 24 the cat 24 Five 42 Nine 42, the Math 2x4=8, 2+4=6. THe Two DIe Reverse is 8+6 the Casinos or odds have this at place 6 and collect Seven. The reverse Cube is 6/8 or 15/62 Mars 51 Queen 62, 24/35, 33/44 33Mas Jesus . Then the Math. Games seem to add dimention . The Math as well the Cube or Rubix 74 Jesus 74 4 x7=28 Cycle takes 4 cubes to complete the full cycle three moons and 84 Plut the 9th Planet? ASk please to explain more best I can
Mary as blessed as she is, is not the mother of God she was chosen by God to birth Jesus in the flesh but she is not the source of his spirit.
God manifest in creation? Are you thinking not of untreated energies? Beware of 'choices'.
Old creation 🤔
New creation
🤔
In Christ there is noo longer
Male or female
New or Greek .......
Slave or free man..... 🤔
But Christ is all
And in all.....
Paul was clear ....
❤️
Images 🤔
I read
Only One God say
No other
Christ is the image
Of God
Hebrews
Genesis 1: 26
Let us make man
In our image
And after our likeness
Mary wasn't born yet
🤔
Mary I can read is the mother of Jesus
But I cannot read anywhere that God has a mother
🤔
Jesus is human
And divine
Son of Man
Son of God
38:44 That's terrible Hollywood BS. Sort of like a recycle of "wag the dog". Not appropriate marriage advice.
The mystery is not in Mary. It is in Jesus Christ the "mystery of God and the Father and of Christ: In whom are hid ALL the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. And this I say, lest any man beguile you with enticing words... beware lest any spoil you through philosophy or vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ, For IN HIM dwelleth ALL the fulness of the Godhead BODILY." Colossians 2:1-9
Bodily.....bodily.....bodily
Cringe Baptist
Bro, you missed the whole point.
Christ was crucified and buried
Raised resurrected and ascent
To the right hand of God
Where is Mary
🤔
In the good part of hades
Paradise with the other saints
Saints are all the christians
The letters of the new testament are written to the saints in each locality which are the local churches
To the saints in Ephesus
To the saints in Corinth
To the saints
Grace and peace from God the Father and our lord Jesus Christ
😊
Not Mary ...I'm reading......
"Christ's body doesn't come from anybody else but her."
Not only is this biologically wrong, it is scripturally wrong and could lead someone into heresy.
Elaborate please?
@@Fisherman4244 Jesus is fully Man and fully God. It's biologically impossible to get a man from only female genes. The Holy Spirit provided what was needed. To say that it was only Mary is to give her more credit for the incarnation than God intended.
@@martinmurry3 'biologically impossible' did you know that it's also biologically impossible to rise from the dead 3 days after being crucified? And yet that also happened.
@@phylocybe_ nothing is impossible for God. However, if you're saying that human nature can rise from the dead without God, then we have a problem.
Your biology is anachronistic here.
We can appreciate Mary
John
Paul
Cephas ..Peter..
Paul say 🤔
Is Christ divided
Who was crucified for you
Paul
No
Mary no
James
No
Who are we following
The point of Who is gathering who
🤔
Not much mentioning of Christ
The Holy Spirit
🤔
Mmm
🤔
I'm suspicious of this lady. Am I alone?
Christ personates us not merry. Christ gathers us and himself. Mary did not include us in herself. That's the doctrine of the incarnation also proverbs 8 shows that there was a body and there was a soul before he is born in a Virgin's wound. That holy thing and she calls him her savior by the way, neither she perpetually sent less and neither is she a perpetual Virgin?
She is a perpetual Virgin. You should pray to the Lord to help you to overcome your unbelief (Mark 9, 24). You have no reason to hate her. It s pathological...
That Christ gathers us and not Mary is only true if you're not reducing Christ to "historical person Jesus of Nazareth". In which case, yeah, you're entirely correct on that.
Mary feels so separate from the teachings of Jesus. Placing such importance on her seems unnecessary.
Mary is the perfect embodiment of the teachings of his son. If you would lead a life only in Christ, with Christ in your heart, your mouth, your deeds, then you would ressemble Mary.
@@Bicicletasaladas Christ is already that symbol, having lived with all the hurdles of earthly life. Why should Christians try to resemble Mary, shouldn't Christians want to resemble Christ?
If nothing in this video would make you think otherwise, then nothing anyone else can say will make you think otherwise 🤷🏻♂️
Jonathan's laying it out just about as clearly as anyone can.
@@ArtwithBen the point is, Christ is the archetype, not the symbol. Mary is the symbol.
St. Paul admonishes his spiritual children, many times, to emulate him (St. Paul), because he emulates Christ Jesus.
That woman is deeply disturbing
Yes, forgive me for I fear I am likely just as hard to listen to as her but she is unbearable
@@raven5875 everything is Bible stuff
@@raven5875 Not at all. This is the feminine ego on full display.
She does have an off putting quality of speaking, or is it her voice? I think she is sincere, though. Remember, she’s managing a “zoom” gathering, which may not present her most authentic manner. Jonathan does not disappoint, however!
@@raven5875 I think there is a nice way to respectfully disregard foundation mouthpieces in a little bit kinder words
God has no mother
And who gave birth to Jesus ? Jesus is God
God has blessed you more than any other woman! He has also blessed the child you will have. Why should "the mother of my Lord" come to me? Luke1:43-44
And David was afraid of the Lord that day, and he said, “How can the ark of the Lord come to me?” 2: Samuel 6:9
That’s a Nestorian heresy to say that. Christ -the second (the Son) and pre-eternal person of the trinity incarnated and is fully man and fully God, 2 natures, one person. One hypostases. He took humanity and ascended it to the right hand of the Father. He is the only begotten Son of the Father, and the only son born of the Theotokos, Mary who gave him a body through the Holy Spirit. She is not a goddess, not a demigod, like many protestants claim we believe. To say God has no mother is to deny Christ’s divinity or else his humanity. He became man to save us. If you do not affirm the Theotokos, your Christology is wrong. May God bless you! And have mercy on us all.
Go tell a pagan "God has a mother" and who will they worship? Of course the Son of God Jesus came to earth through a human mother. That does not mean that the statement: "Mary, the mother of God" is an accurate way to describe Mary, the human vessel. These are deceptive word games. Think about what you are saying, and look at the fruit. Look at the woman in this video. She doesn't want to give honor to Jesus Christ. Does she say the name of Jesus, even one time? Even when Jonathan tries to redirect her to Jesus she keeps going back to her fascination with Mary. It's a distraction from Jesus the incarnate Christ, the Son of God. Put your focus on Jesus alone!
@@Angel-cu5mf if you have a problem talking to pagans about the FULL nature of Jesus thats on you sir. The facts still remain and have since the early church. Jesus dies for all of us because He did not speak what the majority wanted to hear, pagans or otherwise. One thing is for sure, the Bible, which i assume you glean much of your knowledge from, came from the same church the “Theotokos” doctrine came from and from some of the same bishops. These are verifiable historical facts.
BTW we do put our focus on Jesus alone as we eat His body and drink His blood in the Mass and no one else. 👍🏻
Peace!!!
The Mysteries are not questions but answers that can only be obtained by seeking in the dark
You kids have a LOT of catching up to do, have care you don't mistake what you call trees for what you call a forest
McGee, brother, please be careful. No genuine theoria is possible without Christ-like humility and love. If you think you are advanced and well beyond others in knowledge I beg you to be cautious and to at least take the time to genuinely question that assumption. We all take different paths, you may have been graced to see some things that others have not, but there may be other areas in which you are unknowingly deficient. Either way, every good gift is from God. Forgive me and God bless.
A mystery quite literally means a question, and every question has contained within it an answer.
However the question creates the frame or limits for the answer to operate in.
For example, if I ask “What color is an apple?”
That is a question, and the question creates a boundary and rules that the answer must adhere to. The answer must be a color, and the answer must be about an apple.
Therefore Mary presents a question “How can a virgin be pregnant?”
Christ is the answer.
Sorry but she just seems really ditsy to me.
There's little to no evidence in this video that she's understanding anything you're saying.
I'm sure she's getting at least some of it,
but the back-and-forth here is basically non-existent.
Thank you. I wish we could be naive but this woman works for a foundation and also for Princeton seminary. Both places of immense corruption. Good thing’s don’t come from places like that.
What is the harshest critique of Marian traditions? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Marian_visionaries
I don’t think this lady gets it lol
Yeah... She's not listening to what Jonathan is saying, which is "we don't talk about Mary, no, no, no"!