Adam Savage Installs (the Wrong?) Lathe Variable Frequency Drive!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.พ. 2024
- Now with two lathes set up in the shop, Adam thinks about how to maximize the utility of each for his machining projects. One thing that'll help is the installation of a VFD--variable frequency drive--to control the speed of his second lathe. The installation isn't difficult, even if Adam ends up having bought the wrong VFD for his lathe model. Let's see if he can get it working!
Adam Savage Sets Up His Shop's Second Lathe: • Adam Savage Sets Up Hi...
Shot by Adam Savage
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#adamsavage #onedaybuilds #machining - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Adam Savage Sets Up His Shop's Second Lathe: th-cam.com/video/Jd1aVr-0u9w/w-d-xo.html
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There was a chip on the plate @30:14 as Adam put on the chuck to calibrate it...OOOFF!!!
Now to think this Lathe is from Myth Busters is impressive, but that this lathe is from 1970's and probably almost if not already at/over 50 years old is even more impressive that the item still works.
"Make sure faces are clean" and there is a massive chip inside the chuck made me laugh. At 30:14 .
It's only funny because we've all been there. :)
Saw that too...was like uhhh fail
I paused the video to make sure the number one comment was about that chip!
I was about to comment, but I said to myself "Surely there are other manufacturing professionals that saw what I see." LOL A chip on the mounted plate...tisk tisk Adam!
Maybe it fell out when he readjusted it a couple of times? It was a pretty big piece so you'd think it would have showed up on his gauge.
Who's gonna bite the bullet and tell Adam that that's not a three-phase motor with a VFD, but rather a brushless DC (BLDC) motor with speed controller? Torque and Speed curves are vastly different on these very different types of motors...
My immediate thought was thatvthat thing is meant to spin 20x faster probably than the old motor. I'm only a minute in, eager anticipation to see what happens.
You just did 😊
Indeed. A mill spindle motor is not what you want as a drive motor for the lathe.
He'd be better off looking for a regular 3phase motor with a VFD.
The inertia of the 2 are also fastly different. That tiny, equal HP, spindle will stall sooner than that big motor would.
@@thumperthoughts I was the same as soon as I saw the new motor. "It is a spindle motor" !!! That is a high rpm, low torque motor. NOT what you want for a lathe. Only way to get that to work is to set the lathe at the slowest gear ratio, run the new motor higher rpm. But you still loose out compared to a low rpm, high torque regular 3 phase motor and VFD combo.
I guess being a star on a reality TV show where you pretend to know what you’re doing doesn’t actually make you a expert .🤷
also all the shop revamp videos are getting me to finaly organise things in my landry room/work area.
That's great!
When you were mounting the new plate, there was a small metal shaving that you might have sandwiched between the plate and the mount. Check the video.
Came here to say this
Same. Lol 30 minutes and 13 seconds when he wiped it off. 🤣
Not a clue what's going on here,,wouldn't have the first idea what to do with a lathe if i had one, but here i am happily watching this. Clueless but fascinated!!
Moments like 01:22 are one of the big reasons why I love this channel
Ty for the timestamp! Adam knocking things over in his shop (see: gorilla costume) gets an endeared laugh out of me.
I hadn't seen that! Thank you for pointing it out to me. @@CepheidMadEngineer
Thankyou for welcoming me to your humble hat, Adam. Most gracious of you, although you had no hat on.
As a hat man, I really appreciate such graciousness.
As a hat, man, I appreciate a gracious head.
@@Matt_Vanepps Thank God for the "a" in this sentence. 😮
It's a journey to find "your" hat. I'm still on the hunt.
Had the whole shop stop and stare at me when I laughed loud at his innocent faux pas
Adam clamped a piece of swarf between the two pieces of the new chuck.
You can have horsepower (watts) in two ways, having very low speed, but high torque motor, or having high speed, low torgue motor. Torque is almost exclusively created by leverage, so larger the motor in diameter, more torque, and by extension, slower the motor.
You bought a spindle motor, they're usually meant to run FAST with high RPM and create the total power from that. The original motor is meant to spin slow, with high torque for the same overall power.
That's why the motor is so much "smaller"...
So you need to be exact on what type of application you're trying to use the motor for, for a lathe, you need low speed (
Not even 20 seconds in and I've already had to pause and snort at "welcome to my humble chapeau".
I've had vfd's on both my recent lathes. Previous lathe was basically the same as the one shown in the video. What I find to be useful about them is the soft start and stop. I almost never use the speed control, the lathe gearbox is just more convenient most times.
As others have already mentioned; what you have there is a dc motor and speed controller. I imagine its meant to spin at pretty high rpm.
What you really want is a three phase motor (likely 220v) with the same hp and mounting as the old one. Then you just need a 220v single phase to 220v three phase vfd (very common).
If you like VFD, I'd recommend looking up Clough42's Electronic Lead Screw project. It's more work than a VFD conversion, but brings a gigantic amount of versatility to the lathe's capabilities.
thanks Rob, Paul in Florida
James is THE MAN!!!
Love that channel.
12:59 - Every Tool's a Hammer!
That’s what I thought lol
Adam, I really like the idea of making the lathe motor variable, but unfortunately as you found out you can’t just match the horsepower when you go from a fixed speed to variable speed motor. As torque times rpm gives you horsepower. If you want to do the substitution you need to work backward from the original motor. It looks like from the size of the original motor it is built for high torque and heavy duty cycle. So for your variable motor the minimum torque regardless of speed needs to be the rated torque of the original motor. Your new motor will require more horsepower to address the work the motor has to perform through the gear train and the load from the machining effort. I hope this helps. Keep up the great work.
I love your energy Adam, thank you for al your years of education and entertainment. i love your workshop reminds me of my dad's old workshop that sadly no longer exist.
Can someone tell me what happened in the video? My OCD was watching the spot of grease on Adams nose the whole video😂😂
It’s like Christmas Day to Adam every single day he comes to the cave now! Soooooo happy for you buddy!
A spindle motor like that likely won't do well with the inertial load of your lathe spindle with chuck. If you gear down more and run the spindle motor faster, it will probably help a bit. The inertia of an endmill in the spindle is a fraction of what a bigass chuck will be, even with the stock geartrain. There's probably current and time limits that may or may not be adjustable which you will be fighting against.
I appreciate the raw nature and honesty in your machining content. A+ on the bondhus hammer.
If you peck whilst drilling and using the annular cutters the chips will break and be more manageable. Those birdsnests can be super treacherous. Once they catch something, you're in trouble.
Did you change the speed on the split sheave mill head with the spindle off? The belt can get chewed up and it's supposed to be shifted while running.
Frequwncy Adam, Frequency! V Frequency D.
Your journey into machining has been my favorite. I love precision.
I can't say this enough, but if you love precision, search for Dan Gelbart's self-built CNC lathe on youtube. It can machine to an accuracy of 1 micron. It is amazing. The level of precision required to achieve that is mind-blowing.
His workshop tour is also something to behold.
Adam you make everything so so interesting , Thank you once again .
You are so motivating. A maker to the core! Thanks man!
Great video Adam. Really SPOT on. Right ON THE NOSE.
You're not alone -- a lot of other folks REALLY wanted him to notice and wipe his nose off!
Adam, If you mark the position of the material in reference to the chuck first. Then when you take the piece out of the chuck, you can return it to the chuck to the same centricity. I do this with my 4 jaw chucks all the time but it would probably work with a collet check as well.
Aaaah, something very satisfying watching Adam chase microns in his setup. The rule of thumb is you go for 10% of the final tolerance you want to work to. For an aesthetic item lathe then this is plenty accurate.
Look up Dan Gelbart's CNC lathe he built. It is accurate to 1 micron. Every part of the lathe has to be made to micron accuracy to achieve it. Entirely runs on air bearings.
Wow Adam, you’re shop looks awesome! Seem much more functional than your old one! Still love the old shops character but I’m sure you will make this shop even better!!
Awesome :) Used to use an external version to pick-up off a broached bore for finish turning. Had to hand clock it to a couple of microns to get the part in spec.
When you clock something with the dti, take up half of the deviation to get it to land in the middle, should be able to get the dti needle static.
There are multiple grades of ER collet too, run-out can be anything from 10, 5 & 2um . The tighter the run-out the more expensive they get !
Five years hence, “I found my favorite can of WF-40 behind my lathe!”
Slight edit, WF-40 = WD-40…
Big fingers, small screen keyboard.
12:57 Every tool's a hammer, right there XD
Great job. Thank you 😊
30:16 Looks like theres some swarf still on there!
I would love to see in depth videos on how to use that CNC mill more. I'll likely never be able to own one so living vicariously through you is my best bet
Every time I am watching these videos, I'm hunting for the precious gems in the background. The nice old looking wooden drawer cabinet with handwritten notes stating its content. Or almost at the end, that nicely worn red cabinet left from the lathe. These give the shop a lot of character.
My OCD did not allow this; everything must be the same shape, size, color, nicely aligned and with all the same style labels on it. (Un)fortunately that never happened because Ikea decides to change the color of their boxes, I can't get a second workbench with the exact same size again and making those labels just takes too much time. So here I go: I'm officially "Savaging" my shop 😁
I am a retired Machinist and Adam could still close in that 0.0005" run out to 0. Nice video.
🇨🇦/🇺🇸... Adam... I am SOOOO GRATEFUL for you! You are SO nerdy with some geekiness mixed in that I feel that I can do anything. I'm a 63 year old Canadian who found himself in Michigan (how the hell did THAT happen!?) and have never made much of myself, to be very frank. Many of us, watching you in Mythbusters frankly thought that you were more of a... how do I say this... star?... but you know... show biz shows only what they wanna show, right? Since you've been doing your channel, I've come to realize just how REAL and NORMAL you are. You aren't an academic... but you just jumped in and did shit and, as Harrison Ford once said when people would come up to him and ask him if he believed in "The Force"... he said, "FORCE YOURSELF"... and you did.. you forced your way into existence, for lack of a better term. Again, I'm grateful for you! Cheers! :-)
What do you mean "two" lathes? Doesn't the watchmaker lathe count?
I couldn't help but look back on my post-WWII Logan as he took that drill to the lathe bed, and all I could do was grit my teeth and shudder. I changed out the 3ph motor for a single-phase and that was spooky, even with no alterations from stock. Guess the fact that it was Chinesium helps with decisions like that.
Would really love to see you using that watch lathe you built up. See what you learned from it, must-have tools, etc. I have been considering one for my dining shop, not much space to work with and generally only work on small things anyway.
22:44
DUDE!!! You’re freaking me out with your hand being there 😅
I love the shop infrastructure videos!
29:52 surprise doggo appearance
the dog at 29:54
Maggie!
@@testedI have a Maggie pupper! She's my Magpie!
beautiful doggo
That backhand slap at the WD40 can was PERFECT! 😂😁🤟
(edit) @18:00: I should have watched the rest of the video. Or just read the title. I see you realized this already.
I can't agree with your component choices. The high-speed spindle motor that you have chosen seems to me a poor substitute for the lathe's original motor. It will run much faster, which your lathe's spindle bearings will not be designed for. Furthermore, it will have much lower torque, so it will not develop anything like the same horsepower at the speeds your lathe's headstock can handle.
You should have gotten a 56 frame, 220 volt 3-phase A/C induction motor with horsepower and RPM ratings close to those of the original motor (probably around 3450-3600 RPM, but it could be 1725-1800 RPM), and a standard sensorless vector or V/Hz VFD. I have had good luck ordering such parts from Automation Direct. I have no affiliation with them, and there are, of course, many other places that you can order the parts from.
Note that, although the motor takes 220 volts 3 phase, you can get VFDs that will run them from 120 volts single phase input, at least for small motors up to about 1 horsepower.
2:23 VFD is Variable FREQUENCY drive. It gives you speed controlled 3 phase power.
Hey Adam. I really do not like that tiny switch. If something goes wrong, you need to know to be hit e-stop without looking for it. Please consider and additional, easy to access switch/mushroom with "first order availability". Thanks
Great stuff. You should build yourself a nice drafting table (on wheels!!) with a camera stand. I’d love to see more montages of how you do your technical drawings!
Nice lathe!! Looking to get a glass lathe soon myself!!
I lathe made out of glass sounds dangerous. 😱
Lmfao! 🤣🤣🤣 that would be quite wild! Nah it's a lathe that's made for glass work. There are different lathes for metal, wood and glass. All essential similar but significantly different in the way the function for each material!
They say the kid who dies with the most toys wins. Adam comes close, but I still think the guys with the big mixer consoles have the edge.
"I just talked for twenty minutes but forgot to press record!"
Ah, Adam. Heh.
If you drill a pilot hole in the cutting path, you can eliminate the rotating birds nest
Great video sir
I would love to meet you and walk through your cave..!! I'm so glad you became a youtubeer
hee hee hee hee ..... yes he does say chapeau (hat) when he might have meant château or abode (house/dwelling) 😂 🤣 😂
Every time Adam, says "beautiful ', l'm waiting for his face to melt....lol
Seeing Adam's R2 unit really makes me want a build series from him on how to build an astromech, maybe an R4-P17?
Adam, enjoy watching your videos, wish I had that kind of space for a shop. Was wondering if you would share where you ordered the VFD motor combo through? Also do you use a tap follower for tapping holes? It keeps the tap perpendicular to the hole.
I'm just glad he catched that caliper
Great! May I ask why no tapping oil?
Your recent shop infrastructure videos are great. Do you have plans for your welding area?
how come are your workshop and tools never coated with dust, wood and metal chip? everything is so clean all the time!
and at 30:17 there's alluminum swirl hanging out from the piece you machined, it got stuck between the two plates. would that be an issue in the future?
If you were to use a standard 3 phase motor of the same hp rating and vfd you could rewire your original controls into your vfd the all the nice ramp up ramp down and torque control.
I love watching Adam for the things that no one ever says like “last year when I invested in angular cutters” and “your swarth can cut yourself to ribbons”! 😀
Did anyone else notice the string of swarf hanging out when he said make sure it's super clean with nothing in the way? 😮
Love the reference to angry pixies :)
What i want to know is at 3:58, what is that dark grey electronic device to the right on camera? That looks like a Siemens drive, but i cannot tell as i can't get a good enough look at it. Inquiring minds want to know!
Lights did not dim. New circuit, or does this motor have less initial surge?
This man is a genius!
Just wondering what the speed range is on that spindle. I'd not expect it to be a great fit for that use, just because the RPM range might be too high... But, if it works, it works :)
Angry pixies? Sounds like someone watches AvE lol
this is oddly satisfying to watch
29:51 Hi Maggie! Heeheeheeeeeee
The kite with the grenade launcher on the ceiling 😆
Dream place !
Was that a Sean Kinkade ornithopter I spied hanging over the new workshop area? What happened to its tail?
Adam do you not like to use cutting oil to reduce the heat and tooth snatch??
@11:40 the watch shows the text of the message. Does the watch have a private mode where it just shows a clockface ?
9:15 there is however, a "cheaper" option. A indexing boring head with a trepaning tool. Takes a bit longer BUT you get an even better cut, you cut to the right size AND the "trench" is thinner too, because a trepanning tool doesn't need to be thick.
One size fits all with that device that every mill should have, because it's just about the most versatile tool in a mill's box, which essentially (depending on size) turns the mill into a lathe.
I would have turned the boss to fit snugly to start with because that is the most accurate. If there is no adjustment then the it can't get out of adjustment. Then if needed, you could always turn it smaller later.
Spindle moors are designed for high RPM not particularly high torque and that isn't a VFD but a BLDC controller.
That Spindle motor is meant to spin at probably 20K RPM. The motor you took off is probably a 1750 RPM motor. 2Hp at 20000 RPM and 2 HP at 1750 RPM are hugely different amounts of torque. The VFD is faulting because the motor cannot produce the torque needed at the RPMs you are trying to run at.
Same horsepower is one thing, but the different form factor made me think... is the spindle motor able to handle the radial force caused by the belt? The bearings might be designed to handle axial load mostly? I'm no expert, so I don't know what specifically to look at off hand, but I know there's different style of bearings for different loads aorund, so I think a bit of research would be called for
Need to get a tap center to go the mill collet. Spring loaded to keep your threads straight.
That's a big humble hat you have there. LoL Chapeau = hat
Chapeau ≠ chateau
Won't you need an emergency stop? Seems a bit fiddly to switch on and off
I see you are a man of great concentration... your tongue is sticking out when you are really in deep concentration... it is also a sign of genius
Adam, you can get ER 40 collets up to 1 1/8".....I am not sure if they come bigger, but I do have collets up to 1 1/8"...cheers, Paul
Easiest way to adjust 4 jaw chuck or 4 screws: Measure the min and the max and put zero on the dial in the middle between min and max. Then adjust whatever screw in whatever order to read zero. It's much easier than going back and forth on 2 screws at 180 degrees. No matter the angular position it should read your zero.
@2:20 True fact: To make anything *awesome,* add _Moore._ Step up to the Mike, because Moore is all you need.
_The Moore you know._
Now Adam needs to make a mounting bracket/arm for the VFD control
That vice needed a proper tightening down .. Maybe a little cutting fluid .. Raw dogging stopped the mill dead… No hate in any case Mr Savage is absolutely a brilliant mind
My Traveller RPG gaming group finally figured out that the dude they were hiring to modify the prospecting droid they bought, a Mister Artom Sauvage, was totally based on you. It was his janky, cranky homebrew shop assistant JME-INM1 that gave it away...
So, like, around 10:30 did I see you put your face near the spinning cutter tool and then tilt your head to look over the rim of your glasses so that there was a completely unobstructed flight path from the chip-making point of the workpiece to your eyeballs?
I’m not a machinist, I do t know about this stuff, I just like watching people make things; that hole saw(?), the way it make the cut material rise up and out of the hole and spin around like that, that is on purpose right? Like that is some really smart engineering on display there?
Watching youtube machinists is either an experience of zen perfection, or Savage chaos. I love Adam but the whole shop and his process gives me tremendous anxiety.
He drives my OCD of the chart. Watching him makes me think of a saying my father always use to drill into me. It is better to be like a cat walking through a mind field rather than a bull running across it. The cat always gets across with less carnage .
Hey Adam, quick question. How do you support the weight of your tools on a plywood/ crawlspace subfloor? Do you do anything special to rid the floor of bounce and vibration?
In a previous video or two, he mentioned having built a really robust wooden floor structure with the heavy lathe and mill in mind.
@@richardanderson7183 would you happen to have a link to that video?
@@REDRoverMike
Hi RRM!
Adam has mentioned his floor a couple of times, but mostly as a passing comment while discussing bigger topics or builds, so I'd be hard-pressed to say which videos.
I recall his story about hunting for a good space to locate the Cave, and how his decision making process evolving during the effort. He may have touched on it then.
The space he ended up choosing, having been an old auto shop, I think, at one point, had a floor (probably concrete) with a slope for drainage, so he built that up. I assume he used a wooden structure, but I've never really heard him get specific about the build, just that he built it strong enough to accommodate a heavy lathe and mill.
-IIRC
WD-40 and Ballistol are both excellent cutting fluids for aluminium if you experience high grippiness.
worried about the VFD I have toasting a motor from 1968...it is a 3 phase to 3 phase vid,
and rated for the 3 hp motor, but is the motor rated for it?
the motor is a high dollar motor form a Clausing lathe, and has been rewound....
but some times, it would be greet o have a VFD,
cheers on your clean up and organization......best wishes from Florida, Paul
Paul - Due to the voltage spikes inherent with VFDs, the recommendation is for class F or better insulation on the windings. If they upgraded when they rewound it, you'd have less chance of letting out the "Magic Smoke"
had to double check, yes, he did say "Welcome to my humble hat" knowing him though I expect that was intentinal.