Even women who keep their own name after marriage have children who get their husband's last name. In the province of Quebec, they made it the law to hyphen parents' last names for the children, but that can get unwieldy over generations. It's a tough one. I think we need to have a coming of age ceremony where children create their own unique last name. It's one way to avoid bias to one side or another.
It's traditional in Spanish language culture to keep the family names of both parents but of course it's still patrionomic. The last names Max out at two but of course there are people with many middle names. Example: Isabella Laetice Jones (mom's family name treated sorta like a middle name) Gonzales (dad's). In Russia family names actually have gender agreeing with the individual's sex meaning "son of' or 'daughter of' Ivanov (son of Ivan) Ivanova (daughter of Ivan)
Icelanders still use an active naming system of [genitive of parent's name] with suffix -sonn or -dottir. I think traditionally only the father's names was used, but in more recent times, the mother's name can be used instead. This means that family names are not carried down the line, and in a nuclear family with a mother, father, son and daughter, each person can have a different last name.
My grandparents immigrated from the Netherlands to Canada. In the Netherlands after she was married, she was "Mrs. Maiden-name". When they arrived in Canada, Canadians were confused (and rude) about why her last name was different from her husband and children, so she switched to "Mrs. Husband's-name".
I believe there is a title for unmarried men. Isn't "master' the equivalent of "missus"? The only example I have is fiction, but in Batman Alfred calls Bruce, Master Bruce.
Master is used for a boy. In the US, the boy can be called master up until the age of 12. Throughout the English-speaking world, master changes to Mr. at age 18 for the male.
In my view, we should ditch our traditional sexist, patrilineal naming system in favour of a bilineal naming system. Where traditional "family names" are replaced by a child's middle and last name being the Mother and Father's first name. For example if Ms. Jennifer Watson and Mr. Adam Smith had a child, the child would be named as Ms. Evelyn Jennifer Adam or Ms. Evelyn J.A. in short. And couples can be simply known by their first names, such as Jennifer and Adam, Akbar and Fatima, etc. I mean, our current patrilneal naming system is truly and unfair, sexist and exploitative towards women. Its the Mothers who sacrifice everything and go through hell to give birth to us, yet our naming system allows us to trace down, remember and honour only our fathers and forefathers. Truly infuriating. Women are basically the last colony, as one Feminist rightly said, who oppressed and exploitated for the primary benefit of men under patriarchy. This Patrilineal naming system is not just deeply unfair and sexist, but also contributes to the problem of son preference in society. There is literally a silent genocide going on against the girl child around many parts of the world, in the form of female infanticide and sex selective abortion, encouraged by this sick system. This needs to end.
Sounds like white liberal feminism. Utopian ignorance. "Women are last frontier," Said a well-educated and properly fed American woman, while workers of all genders and ages die in impoverished nations. Class is the final frontier, and your stance is little more than Identity Politics, ignoring the economic situation. You've forgotten that the world we live in needs a high level of bureaucracy to function. You've forgotten the Capitalists are the main problem. Not.... checks notes.. A label system. 🤦🏻♂️
I think each married couple should make their own unique surname. For example adam smith and jennifer aniston And they formed a new family through marriage so they choose let's say perplinton as their new unique marriage union surname. Their children will inherit this And once they are married, they too are required to make a unique surname
The patrilineal system was, in most cultures, a method of showing which possible father was claiming legal responsibility for the child. When a child is born, it is pretty evident who the mother is, but not always the father. Peterson, McDonald, O'Brien would all be showing who claims the child as theirs. Fitzgerald or Fitzpatrick shows this as well, but "Fitz" denotes an illegitimate child that is still being claimed (this might be necessary for inheritance purposes). Naming a child by their full lineage could lead to some problems. If we include the first names, middle names and last names of both the parents and grandparents (as has been suggested by others replying here), I could be named Albert Mark Marjorie-Mary-Susan-Warren-Boughton-Carrye-Robert-Foster=McGaffin=Bouton (yes a new spelling)=Laycock=Westbrook. I wouldn't want to put that on an application.
Pippi Longstocking, the English name of the Swedish(?) book character, has a very Swedish(?) name, translated literally into English as someone's daughter, and it just so happens that her dad is that someone. We have our paternal DNA and maternal DNA. That's proof enough. Culturally, people can do the hell they want. Chinese personal names are usually not namesakes, because naming a baby after an elder would be considered "rude". The surname is also not a namesake either. If you look up the etymology of the surname, it's not named after a person either. By your logic, Chinese culture is gender-egalitarian. Hahaha. Nope. Modern Chinese culture is substantially more egalitarian than ancient Chinese culture. Language does NOT equal culture!!!
That’s why I would like it if women legally change their last names or names as a whole and that all children should have the last names of their mothers.
Amazing illustration! As soon as I eas old enough to understand the concept of a maiden name (prob age 5 or 6) I thought it wasnt fair that it defaulted to the man's name. This convention is so unquestioned it drives me crazy. Girls/women who arent even in a relationship picture themselves in the future with a different name (regardless of what it is they would take that vs keeping their own). Anyone like me who dares want to keep the bame they are born with (like a man would) is viewed as a radical man-hater.
By nearly every metric, women in the US are outperforming men. Women tend to live longer, are significantly less likely to commit crimes, declare bankruptcy, or commit suicide. Single women in their early twenties earn nearly 18% more than their male counterparts. Additionally, women constitute 58% of all college graduates and 64% of all PhD candidates. These achievements can be attributed to the more mature and responsible choices women often make.
I don’t like when the woman takes on the first name of her husband like in the case of Mr and Mrs Tyler McDonald. However, I’m pregnant now and it’s blatantly obvious I am carrying a child. I’m fine to give my child my husbands last name because it’s kind of his way of creating claim to the child whereas I naturally have it. Like that part doesn’t bother me, but I wouldn’t take on my husbands first name in place of my own in writing. That’s ick.
I think married couple should make their own unique surname. It's time to stop inheriting surname from the fathers. It's patriarchal
Keep educating women cheering you on all the way from 🇺🇬
This is SUCH a good point, we are so used to some things we should question more
Even women who keep their own name after marriage have children who get their husband's last name. In the province of Quebec, they made it the law to hyphen parents' last names for the children, but that can get unwieldy over generations. It's a tough one. I think we need to have a coming of age ceremony where children create their own unique last name. It's one way to avoid bias to one side or another.
Meet my child, Billy Smith-Jones-Miller-Wright-Brown-Cohen-Johnson-Harrison-Jones.
*Peak NeoLiberalism.*
It's traditional in Spanish language culture to keep the family names of both parents but of course it's still patrionomic. The last names Max out at two but of course there are people with many middle names.
Example:
Isabella Laetice Jones (mom's family name treated sorta like a middle name) Gonzales (dad's).
In Russia family names actually have gender agreeing with the individual's sex meaning "son of' or 'daughter of'
Ivanov (son of Ivan)
Ivanova (daughter of Ivan)
True! Two married couple should make their own unique surname. When two people are married they are building a new family hence the new surname
Icelanders still use an active naming system of [genitive of parent's name] with suffix -sonn or -dottir. I think traditionally only the father's names was used, but in more recent times, the mother's name can be used instead. This means that family names are not carried down the line, and in a nuclear family with a mother, father, son and daughter, each person can have a different last name.
My grandparents immigrated from the Netherlands to Canada. In the Netherlands after she was married, she was "Mrs. Maiden-name".
When they arrived in Canada, Canadians were confused (and rude) about why her last name was different from her husband and children, so she switched to "Mrs. Husband's-name".
So interesting!
I believe there is a title for unmarried men. Isn't "master' the equivalent of "missus"? The only example I have is fiction, but in Batman Alfred calls Bruce, Master Bruce.
Master is used for a boy. In the US, the boy can be called master up until the age of 12. Throughout the English-speaking world, master changes to Mr. at age 18 for the male.
@cestlavie7132 "In the US"
IN WHAT CENTURY??
No one calls 11yr old boys "Master" in the US.
Wtf are you talking about?
@@lococomrade3488 It is still used by servants in some upper class families and staff in posh private schools.
@albertwestbrook4813 "posh"
So you mean this is a UK issue. I've never once heard it in the US. 🤷🏻♂️
@@lococomrade3488 No. By "posh", I just mean what we 'Mericans mean by "fancy-shmancy".
In my view, we should ditch our traditional sexist, patrilineal naming system in favour of a bilineal naming system. Where traditional "family names" are replaced by a child's middle and last name being the Mother and Father's first name. For example if Ms. Jennifer Watson and Mr. Adam Smith had a child, the child would be named as Ms. Evelyn Jennifer Adam or Ms. Evelyn J.A. in short.
And couples can be simply known by their first names, such as Jennifer and Adam, Akbar and Fatima, etc.
I mean, our current patrilneal naming system is truly and unfair, sexist and exploitative towards women. Its the Mothers who sacrifice everything and go through hell to give birth to us, yet our naming system allows us to trace down, remember and honour only our fathers and forefathers. Truly infuriating. Women are basically the last colony, as one Feminist rightly said, who oppressed and exploitated for the primary benefit of men under patriarchy. This Patrilineal naming system is not just deeply unfair and sexist, but also contributes to the problem of son preference in society. There is literally a silent genocide going on against the girl child around many parts of the world, in the form of female infanticide and sex selective abortion, encouraged by this sick system. This needs to end.
Sounds like white liberal feminism. Utopian ignorance.
"Women are last frontier,"
Said a well-educated and properly fed American woman, while workers of all genders and ages die in impoverished nations.
Class is the final frontier, and your stance is little more than Identity Politics, ignoring the economic situation.
You've forgotten that the world we live in needs a high level of bureaucracy to function.
You've forgotten the Capitalists are the main problem.
Not.... checks notes..
A label system. 🤦🏻♂️
I think each married couple should make their own unique surname. For example adam smith and jennifer aniston
And they formed a new family through marriage so they choose let's say perplinton as their new unique marriage union surname. Their children will inherit this
And once they are married, they too are required to make a unique surname
The patrilineal system was, in most cultures, a method of showing which possible father was claiming legal responsibility for the child. When a child is born, it is pretty evident who the mother is, but not always the father. Peterson, McDonald, O'Brien would all be showing who claims the child as theirs. Fitzgerald or Fitzpatrick shows this as well, but "Fitz" denotes an illegitimate child that is still being claimed (this might be necessary for inheritance purposes).
Naming a child by their full lineage could lead to some problems. If we include the first names, middle names and last names of both the parents and grandparents (as has been suggested by others replying here), I could be named Albert Mark Marjorie-Mary-Susan-Warren-Boughton-Carrye-Robert-Foster=McGaffin=Bouton (yes a new spelling)=Laycock=Westbrook. I wouldn't want to put that on an application.
So interesting
Pippi Longstocking, the English name of the Swedish(?) book character, has a very Swedish(?) name, translated literally into English as someone's daughter, and it just so happens that her dad is that someone.
We have our paternal DNA and maternal DNA. That's proof enough. Culturally, people can do the hell they want.
Chinese personal names are usually not namesakes, because naming a baby after an elder would be considered "rude". The surname is also not a namesake either. If you look up the etymology of the surname, it's not named after a person either.
By your logic, Chinese culture is gender-egalitarian. Hahaha. Nope. Modern Chinese culture is substantially more egalitarian than ancient Chinese culture.
Language does NOT equal culture!!!
Lets do this!❤❤❤
That’s why I would like it if women legally change their last names or names as a whole and that all children should have the last names of their mothers.
Yes! Then there's Icelandic names ending in "dottir"
"Is our naming system patriarchal?"
Yes, and it's based.
Yes, and it’s cringe.
Amazing illustration! As soon as I eas old enough to understand the concept of a maiden name (prob age 5 or 6) I thought it wasnt fair that it defaulted to the man's name. This convention is so unquestioned it drives me crazy. Girls/women who arent even in a relationship picture themselves in the future with a different name (regardless of what it is they would take that vs keeping their own). Anyone like me who dares want to keep the bame they are born with (like a man would) is viewed as a radical man-hater.
I really dislike being called by my husband's first name. I have my own first name, thank you.
*_YESSSS._*
By nearly every metric, women in the US are outperforming men. Women tend to live longer, are significantly less likely to commit crimes, declare bankruptcy, or commit suicide. Single women in their early twenties earn nearly 18% more than their male counterparts. Additionally, women constitute 58% of all college graduates and 64% of all PhD candidates. These achievements can be attributed to the more mature and responsible choices women often make.
I don’t like when the woman takes on the first name of her husband like in the case of Mr and Mrs Tyler McDonald. However, I’m pregnant now and it’s blatantly obvious I am carrying a child. I’m fine to give my child my husbands last name because it’s kind of his way of creating claim to the child whereas I naturally have it. Like that part doesn’t bother me, but I wouldn’t take on my husbands first name in place of my own in writing. That’s ick.