suggestion for a future video, as a sort of variation on staple or stinker. make non magic players guess if cards are real or fake, showing them magic cards with wierd rules text on them, and fake cards with the same.
@@Abdojtj I like the idea, but I'd rather see it in a format with maybe younger magic players or magic players that do not have encyclopaedic knowledge. The reason is that I do think if you show weird/fake magic cards to non-magic-players it would be a coin flip each and every time whether they guess it right. With Staple/Stinker they can at least somehow try to evaluate if a card is good based on their limited understanding of the game + hints that the team give them. There's no way one could try to make sense of weird cards enough to tell them apart from fake ones.
@@tomaszchmura9246 lots of people did. randomly discarding is bad, really bad, so bad that the only playable card with the effect is literally a 1 mana tutor for anything.
To be fair, part of the reason Tibalt was so highly valued was an overcorrection from how often actually good planeswalkers seemed obviously terrible based on just the card text. For example Elspeth, Knight Errant looks incredibly underwhelming but was a Modern staple for several years. At the time Tibalt came out, you could pretty safely guess based on just the card type Planeswalker that a card would probably at least be relevant to Standard even if it didn't end up in the absolute best decks in the format.
A nice piece of trivia on Lurrus is that it was one of the few cards to get BANNED in vintage. As it turns out, having an extra card in your hand that you can cast with Black Lotus, and then immediately use to recast Black Lotus, was too strong. Lurrus was so broken that it made Black Lotus, the best card ever, even stronger.
@@veryblockyit was banned, then they changed the companion mechanic. Previously you could cast then directly from your sideboard. Now you first need to pay 3 to move them to your hand. Literally doubling the cost did a lot to dampen how utterly broken it was, though it's still good enough to get banned in Modern *and* Legacy.
not convinced Josh couldn't win an RCQ with only a few weeks of training. he's crazy good at Yugioh and had great analysis of all the cards in the video
@@CardmarketMagic oooh or two people who have won Staple or Stinker, looking through and picking a few magic cards each from MTG's history and testing each OTHER on Staples or Stinkers. Just let two kids loose in the candy store and see what they pick to come back with. Could have a stipulation that they have to pick 3 staples and 2 stinkers, and have them try to make it difficult for each other, like, one picks Necropolis Regent and the other picks Huntmaster of the Fells, one picks Black Sun's Zenith, the other picks Killing Wave etc.
Want to see Staple or Stinker 2:Combo edition, where its 2 or more cards and see if the combo is staple or stinker. Examples include Faithless Looting + Sneaky Snacker or Karn Lock
I know it bogs down needing to explain formats and all that but I really feel like it does a disservice to describing the power of Lurrus to not mention that it's the only card to ever get a power level ban in Vintage. "So in MTG there's a format called Vintage where the only banned cards are joke cards, ante cards, racist cards, and cards which literally do not work. Black Lotus isn't banned. Lurrus is the only card in history to get banned in that format for being too powerful."
to be fair, companion cards were banned for power level reasons because restricting them would have done literally nothing, and those are the only two things you can do to a card in vintage
I love this series! Another good idea would be cards that have seemingly BIG build-your-deck-around-this effects, like Scapeshift, Genesis Wave, Warp World, Dragon Storm, Ignite Memories, Eye of Ugin, and then ask the guest if this seems competitively viable.
This would require too much magic knowledge to answer. Most of these would only be answerable if they got to know the other cards that exist in magic. But it's a fun idea if it was possible :)
Without a lot of context about the game it would be really hard to understand why like, Genesis Wave is okay but not great but Scapeshift is crazy good.
As someone who's rather new to Magic, the idea of Planeswalker is a very flavorful concept. Loyalty is so aptly named, losing some when they take damage because you (the player) choose not to block for them and if they reach 0 Loyalty from taking damage they basically go "peace out, jackass. I'm done with this". Effects that accumulates loyalty for them are like their signature cantrips so you're letting them do their thing, and ultimates are exactly that, an exertion of their mana that will more than likely render them unable to continue fighting but provides a boon for an ally Planeswalker. I think the only slight flavor fail is they are represented as counters in game, so effects that interact with counters like proliferate or doubling season will also affect loyalty counters and the only reason it does is "game mechanics" with not much flavor behind it. But that's just a minor nitpick to what would have been a 10/10 design
I think it's not too bad of a flavor fail because I see proliferating as increasing the potency of boons or banes on things on the field, so proliferating a +1/+1 counter is further increasing the effectiveness of the buff, so proliferating an allied Planeswalker could be seen as boosting their strength as well. Not totally on theme with the name of the counter but buffing your friend will make them more willing and able to fight for you
The actual flavoring of card types with magic and how they play into different fantasies is one of my favorite bits of the game, sagas and classes also do a really good job at this
yugioh can replicate that if they want to, change royalty to royalty counter, at the start of the stand by phase reveal this card from your hand and place it as continuous trap on your field if that card is targeted or about to be destroyed remove 1 royalty counter to negate the effect. like yugioh can will able to implement planewalkers mechanic if the designers really want to, most yugioh archetype are already break their own summmoning mechanic anyway.
I’m admittedly kinda sad that you didn’t mention that Lurrus got banned in *Vintage* pre-errata, really want to hear someone’s reaction to that But fantastic job on the 5/5, I love these videos so much
I love this series, generally this shows that good players understand power level even with limited context of the game! Also, for non yugioh players, a floodgate is like a stax piece
I'd love you guys to try and get Josh to evaluate utility Lands. His analysis is so good that it'd be really interesting to see him interact with the game economy.
There's no way a Yu-Gi-Oh player misses on Tibalt unless they just psych themselves out. It's slow, it discards randomly, and the cost difference and value of a planeswalker aren't things they would typically feel.
Though funny enough, in YGO, Danger! Monsters were meta despite it randomly discarding from hand, and doing different effects based on if it hit itself or not. Even though it was unreliable, it benefited from being self resource replenishing extenders... more often than not. This was a format where rank 3 was basically a win if uninterrupted, but the other ones had big bodies and big levels. Far cry from the obvious slow Tibalt
@@monkeylemuryou are ignoring the entire context of danger Fist: simply the critical mass of danger Second: how much better discard is in Yugioh compared to magic Third: how fast danger were when they first released And lastly although the discard on the dangers are random all of them are +1 when they hit and all the good ones and even some of the bad ones are + 1 even when they miss
Bro you got Jesse Kotton to play Staple or Stinker!? (heh, sorry but I can't help but rub salt in the wound after this year's worlds finals). Also here's something Josh didn't even realize, he actually reacted to Sam doing Staple or Stinker a year-ish ago (he was in pain watching Sam's attempt), and he saw Sam get Thalia, and Josh guessed it right there too. Guess he forgot about it, but either way, he's a champ for a reason (and he might be picking up another YCS win this week after getting one around this time last year in the same city no less).
The missing context for why Lurrus was broken was that the floor was often that you looked at the top of someone's library and drew an extra card for free every single turn because of Mishra's Bauble, and if you were doing anything other than that it was absolutely obscene But I love that Joshua has zero context for how planeswalkers actually play out and Tibalt on its face *still* seems awful even then
He works a full time job in addition to all of his other endeavors. It might be a lot to ask for him to immediately go from Italy to Germany and then take an extra day or two off work.
@CaptainMarvel4Ever Oh I completely understand. I just think it would be cool. Also a good opportunity since he's already in Europe, which I don't think happens a lot.
@@ThetrueKidGoku Oh hey I agree completely, I love Pak, and seeing him flex his analysis skills would be great. It's just tough for him since he's so ambitious not only in Yu-Gi-Oh, but all aspects of life. In the meantime, Julius Schwarzkopf may be a good pick. He's where Pak was 5 years ago as the current #1 rookie, and he's a local of Germany. Just like Pak he made top 8 today, and with Mermail no less (his feature match was over in no time as he got a quick and clean win).
Dude knows his stuff. It's nice that game theory spans across genres. It's also kind of hilarious that a Yugioh player can evaluate MTG cards better than a lot of MTG players. Tibalt was one word away from being a good card. "Random" makes the card infinitely worse. I honestly don't think he'd be all that busted if you took the random aspect away either. I think they played it too safe with him.
Well you can proliferate to increase it's power, then you just need to protect it. But having to build the deck around making it work means it's probably a bad card. Unless it instantly wins (which this doesn't really.) At least fervor will most definitely have at least some payoff, Tibalt is just more of a cost to 'maybe' use it's ultimate.
Whoo! It's back. If you wanted to set the comments section of fire, putting Temple of the False God, Reliquary tower and Enlightened Tutor on there would be hilarious.
In my Krenko deck I have 4 cards that give permanent haste to all my creatures. All of them are better than Fervor. They all cost 3 mana as well but do something else: - Goblin Chieftain is a goblin creature that gives all the other goblins +1/+1. - Goblin Warchief is a goblin creature that reduces the cost of every other goblin by 1. - Tuktuk Rubblefort is a 0/3 wall creature with reach, meaning I can also use it to block, even flyers. - Rising of the Day is power-crept Fervor. It's exactly the same but also gives my 5 legendary creatures (including my commander) +1/+0 (it's also an uncommon against Fervor that's rare). So given that Fervor is so easily outclassed in a format where it would be somewhat useful, I deduced that it had no chance of being good in a 1v1 format.
Carl just gave the best explanation of a planeswalker in a game of Magic I've ever heard. By the way, is Grazer a staple? I would of thought it was a straight up stinker -only good in turn one, and after that you wouldn't want to draw multiple of them-.
You should display cards in front of the two Staple/Stinker winners and have them build a deck by picking a card out of the selections, which are Staples and Stinkers and then have them play
What an intelligent guy. Can tell he’s reaching down to knowledge about probably hearthstone in his mind but he was spot on so far. Almost seems like he knows these cards already but probs just a high iq lad.
OK hear me out: if you get the crown, the next person has to answer one more if they want to go for the crown. And then one more to challenge that person.
Idk if josh will ever see this but there were soul sister decks that would main-deck run a few copies with another card called Heliod the sun crowned. They didn't see top table success but it did float around tier 3 in modern at the time
Fervor also has the issue, that alot of red creatures already have haste. Not all, but plenty of decent haste havers. Might be better in a multi color deck that's splashing in the red, but you might as well do boots instead, a creature only needs haste for one turn, and it can be done colorless..
Staple or Stinker - Vanilla Edition (with the caveat that some used to be staples) Staples: Isamaru, Hound of Konda Watchwolf Stinkers: Gigantosaurus Yargle and Multani Aegis Turtle
You were spot-on with Tibalt. He needs to stay around a long time to get real use out of his stronger abilities and the random discard is too steep a cost for such a fragile permanent. It *might* have been playable (and even that might be a stretch) in aggro decks or graveyard decks if you got to choose the discarded card but alas, he is complete ass. Even the next worst 2 mana Planeswalker is lightyears more playable than 2-mana Tibalt and it has a restriction of not being castable for the first three turns of the game lol.
My thoughts on each card as presented, as someone who has played a number of card games but never really got into Magic Furvor - reads OK, but my impression of Red is that it already has plenty of creatures that have haste or otherwise do things on play, and if you're doing a multicolor deck, you're paying 3 mana to set up for a combo, which doesn't sound amazing. - Stinker Arboreal Grazer - this is ramp and ramp is good, the question is how does this compare to other ramp cards? I know Magic has one drops that can tap for mana, so how does this compare to them? Unlike those, you need to have 3 lands in hand to make use of this turn one (a forest to tap to play it, a second land to get from the effect, and a third land to play at the start of your next turn or else what was the point?). Under that condition, this is better than those because you get the extra mana every turn going forward, even if this creature is removed, and it can also be used to attack or block or such since it doesn't need to tap itself. Needing to have 3 lands in hand feels a bit dicey but i think Magic players are used to needing to draw lands, so I don't think it's actually that much of an ask - Staple. Thalia - Taxing most cards can cause a lot of problems for your opponent (and for you but presumably you're deckbuilding to account for this), and its a little hard to remove since you need to block with at least a 1/3 or cast a removal spell that will get cost increased. The obvious counter to this is a creature that can hit it for one on play, or any effect already on board that can ping it for one damage, but I'm not sure how common those are. I'm a bit torn on this overall but i think what it comes down to is that if this card was a staple, I'm not sure it would be healthy for the game overall and would get complained about a lot, so - Stinker Lurrus - oh i think I've heard of this one, isnt this the one that got the Companion keyword changed? Oh wait, they're talking about it with the updated text, I think originally you just got to play it for 3 from out of the game right? I think i heard that change killed the mechanic so - Stinker Tibalt - the +1 filters and maybe stages something in the graveyard but the first two effects dont seem amazing and i doubt this ever survived to do the -6, especially if there are creatures on the board to be stolen - Stinker
Now you gotta have both of them on but interview them separately. Reference the TH-camr Rarran. He’s had a lot of similar types of videos! If they tie, have a tiebreaker ready!
So here's the thing about Lurrus: it's *the only card* to ever be banned in Vintage for being too powerful. Most obscenely powerful cards get banned in other formats but merely restricted in Vintage to being 1-per-deck. But that doesn't help with Lurrus, because the companion mechanic means you're only keeping one copy in your sideboard anyway! Lurrus has since been unbanned in Vintage, however -- and to give you an idea of Vintage's power level, Thalia isn't restricted, while cards like black lotus, ancestral recall, and time walk are all restricted (and can all be re-cast with Lurrus -- in fact, Lurrus recasting Time Walk is a two card infinite turns combo.)
3:49 cards like that always throw me off. Like how do you handle cards that were definitely mvips at one point in time but those days are gone… and/or cards that are really great but only in specific niche decks.
Tbh Tibalt biggest issue is that he dies to lightning bolt...(and that the discard is at random). If he either was starting on 3 or you could pick what you discard he would be at least all right. Granted I dont remember If lightning bolt and him were legal at the same time, but one of the check for planeswalkers is, can you survive lightning bolt? If they cant they need to have very good ability since they are better to be treated as one ability only Unles you are Ajani, Nacatl Pariah then you bring so much value that you can die to LB and its fine.
Could you show them Gurmag Angler I think it's called and Arclight Phoenix? I think those are interesting cards. Maybe Karn Liberated and Karn, The Great Creator as well?
I'll be honest. I thought "floodgate" was a pretty common term for games. Pleased that despite being outside of MtG for a few years now, I still managed to get 5/5.
I played with Tibalt in Standard. He really wants a deck where his "disadvantage" is less painful than elsewhere - you can't just usefully throw it into any deck. Back then I played Boros Reanimator - excuse me, Boros Resurrector - and probably about 2/3 of my deck didn't mind ending up in the graveyard. My deck originally had two copies and really wanted a third. But yes, in general, it's a Bad Card.
@@HeneLv Yes. Pretty sure Phil regularly plays it in his commander decks and I've seen both Crim and Seth play it in green decks on the main channel gameplay vids.
Want to see a real, competitive deck with Tibalt? bit.ly/488D5uf
(plus a couple of decks with Thalia/Lurrus)
suggestion for a future video, as a sort of variation on staple or stinker. make non magic players guess if cards are real or fake, showing them magic cards with wierd rules text on them, and fake cards with the same.
@@Abdojtj I like the idea, but I'd rather see it in a format with maybe younger magic players or magic players that do not have encyclopaedic knowledge.
The reason is that I do think if you show weird/fake magic cards to non-magic-players it would be a coin flip each and every time whether they guess it right. With Staple/Stinker they can at least somehow try to evaluate if a card is good based on their limited understanding of the game + hints that the team give them. There's no way one could try to make sense of weird cards enough to tell them apart from fake ones.
@@pervertesacker7131 that sounds awesome too
I'm honestly surprised that no one tried Tibalt with Madness. Perhaps I'm too new to MtG, but it would seem like the obvious direction to me.
@@tomaszchmura9246 lots of people did. randomly discarding is bad, really bad, so bad that the only playable card with the effect is literally a 1 mana tutor for anything.
it's so funny that without the context of previous Planeswalkers, Tibalt just so obviously seems terrible 🤣
To be fair, part of the reason Tibalt was so highly valued was an overcorrection from how often actually good planeswalkers seemed obviously terrible based on just the card text. For example Elspeth, Knight Errant looks incredibly underwhelming but was a Modern staple for several years.
At the time Tibalt came out, you could pretty safely guess based on just the card type Planeswalker that a card would probably at least be relevant to Standard even if it didn't end up in the absolute best decks in the format.
@Falterfire so like... without the context of previous Planeswalkers? :p
@@SkylarPastor My point is that without context, I think *most* Planeswalkers 'obviously seem terrible'.
@@Falterfire As a reminder, many pros though Jace, the Mindsculptor would not see play because you could just play Jace Beleren
I feel like tibalt would be a staple if it just looted with its +1 the random part is rough
A nice piece of trivia on Lurrus is that it was one of the few cards to get BANNED in vintage. As it turns out, having an extra card in your hand that you can cast with Black Lotus, and then immediately use to recast Black Lotus, was too strong. Lurrus was so broken that it made Black Lotus, the best card ever, even stronger.
It was banned because you only needed one. Limiting it to one per deck would do nothing
I like the statement that when Wizards released companions, before their nerf, Lurrus was a card of about the same power level as P9.
It isn’t, it’s not even restricted in vintage.
EDIT: I’ve just looked it up, it was unbanned after the change to cost 3 to add it to hand
@@veryblocky it used to be banned
@@veryblockyit was banned, then they changed the companion mechanic. Previously you could cast then directly from your sideboard. Now you first need to pay 3 to move them to your hand. Literally doubling the cost did a lot to dampen how utterly broken it was, though it's still good enough to get banned in Modern *and* Legacy.
not convinced Josh couldn't win an RCQ with only a few weeks of training. he's crazy good at Yugioh and had great analysis of all the cards in the video
He was also crazy good at LoR, when that game released. Dude is jsut plain good at card games.
Now we 100% need a MTG showmatch between 2 winners of Staple or Stinker!
That's a really fun idea! :D
@@CardmarketMagic oooh or two people who have won Staple or Stinker, looking through and picking a few magic cards each from MTG's history and testing each OTHER on Staples or Stinkers. Just let two kids loose in the candy store and see what they pick to come back with. Could have a stipulation that they have to pick 3 staples and 2 stinkers, and have them try to make it difficult for each other, like, one picks Necropolis Regent and the other picks Huntmaster of the Fells, one picks Black Sun's Zenith, the other picks Killing Wave etc.
@@CardmarketMagicYou should get them to build their own decks and play against each other. It would be great to see what they could come up with!
@@CardmarketMagic give both of them a bunch of cards, and let them build their decks.
@@CardmarketMagic Have them play two games: one with only staples and one with only stinkers.
Want to see Staple or Stinker 2:Combo edition, where its 2 or more cards and see if the combo is staple or stinker. Examples include Faithless Looting + Sneaky Snacker or Karn Lock
i'd show lantern of insight + codex shredder
And of course the classic Donate + Illusions of Grandeur combo
Harmless offering + anything that eventually causes it's controller to lose the game
I know it bogs down needing to explain formats and all that but I really feel like it does a disservice to describing the power of Lurrus to not mention that it's the only card to ever get a power level ban in Vintage.
"So in MTG there's a format called Vintage where the only banned cards are joke cards, ante cards, racist cards, and cards which literally do not work. Black Lotus isn't banned. Lurrus is the only card in history to get banned in that format for being too powerful."
Racist cards? Huh? How does that work?
how about a format for just the racist cards that'd be a good time
to be fair, companion cards were banned for power level reasons because restricting them would have done literally nothing, and those are the only two things you can do to a card in vintage
@@Demonic0Jester thats just.... life.
@@RoxyGotMoxy. be a lot cooler if it was
I love this series!
Another good idea would be cards that have seemingly BIG build-your-deck-around-this effects, like Scapeshift, Genesis Wave, Warp World, Dragon Storm, Ignite Memories, Eye of Ugin, and then ask the guest if this seems competitively viable.
This would require too much magic knowledge to answer. Most of these would only be answerable if they got to know the other cards that exist in magic. But it's a fun idea if it was possible :)
@@CardmarketMagic Fair point, it probably *would* be too difficult to estimate
@@CardmarketMagicdo a 4 way versus series with build around meme decks! That could be hilarious, especially depending on hosts/guests!
Doomsday!
Without a lot of context about the game it would be really hard to understand why like, Genesis Wave is okay but not great but Scapeshift is crazy good.
As someone who's rather new to Magic, the idea of Planeswalker is a very flavorful concept. Loyalty is so aptly named, losing some when they take damage because you (the player) choose not to block for them and if they reach 0 Loyalty from taking damage they basically go "peace out, jackass. I'm done with this". Effects that accumulates loyalty for them are like their signature cantrips so you're letting them do their thing, and ultimates are exactly that, an exertion of their mana that will more than likely render them unable to continue fighting but provides a boon for an ally Planeswalker.
I think the only slight flavor fail is they are represented as counters in game, so effects that interact with counters like proliferate or doubling season will also affect loyalty counters and the only reason it does is "game mechanics" with not much flavor behind it. But that's just a minor nitpick to what would have been a 10/10 design
I think it's not too bad of a flavor fail because I see proliferating as increasing the potency of boons or banes on things on the field, so proliferating a +1/+1 counter is further increasing the effectiveness of the buff, so proliferating an allied Planeswalker could be seen as boosting their strength as well. Not totally on theme with the name of the counter but buffing your friend will make them more willing and able to fight for you
The actual flavoring of card types with magic and how they play into different fantasies is one of my favorite bits of the game, sagas and classes also do a really good job at this
yugioh can replicate that if they want to, change royalty to royalty counter, at the start of the stand by phase reveal this card from your hand and place it as continuous trap on your field if that card is targeted or about to be destroyed remove 1 royalty counter to negate the effect.
like yugioh can will able to implement planewalkers mechanic if the designers really want to, most yugioh archetype are already break their own summmoning mechanic anyway.
Tbh, a lot of MtG falls apart as soon as you start looking at various mechanical interactions
@@Futuristic271proliferate is in flavor supposed to represent the spread of phyresis
Nice reasonings, it's very tricky to evaluate companion without knowing that it was erratated
Yeah and he was right but didn’t why. But he did a spot on job!
Well he did know why but didn’t realise how broken it really was.
@@timw9745 because by yugioh standard reviving every turn is just meh.
Josh's card assessment skills is honestly impressive
Staple or Stinker is my favorite series between the Cardmarket Yugioh and MTG
I remember when Tibalt was originally printed. We tried so hard… and got nowhere. And in the end, Tibalt never really mattered.
At least not this incarnation of him.
Ive won with a Tibalt ult before😂😂😂
I feel like Tibalt is way easier to evaluate without the influence of knowing Magic planeswalker history
Carl: I will start to only make a video a week
Also Carl:
Is this not the video for this week?
I just don't hope he's gonna overwork himself again....
@@broshmosh it's a joke because they uploaded a 2 minute video yesterday (too long to be posted as a short)
@@broshmosh second but barely the first one was 6 days ago
I only see a video from the 14th and the 21th, that fits once per week perfectly.
I’m admittedly kinda sad that you didn’t mention that Lurrus got banned in *Vintage* pre-errata, really want to hear someone’s reaction to that
But fantastic job on the 5/5, I love these videos so much
I did :) but it got cut out since the explanation was too long
@ Ah, gotchas - ty for mentioning it at least, can imagine
@@CardmarketMagic Could we ever get unedited? Josh is quite... an opinionated individual about cards and decks so I'd love to hear him unfiltered.
As a ygo player, A1 content. You got our best guy of course he did great
Oh pog! Big fan of staple or stinker
I love this series, generally this shows that good players understand power level even with limited context of the game!
Also, for non yugioh players, a floodgate is like a stax piece
Tibalt did not only destroy hands, but entire decks, when people tried to build around making random discard good.
Now we need a final Staple or Stinker battle between Tyler and Joshua to decide once and for all who gets to wear the crown!
I'd love you guys to try and get Josh to evaluate utility Lands. His analysis is so good that it'd be really interesting to see him interact with the game economy.
This is the kind of content that hooked me to the chanel. After that I felt in love with all the series.
¡¡Sois los mejores, chicos!!
best MTG channel on TH-cam, no negativity, great production quality, and a great team, thanks for these awesome videos and don't overwork yourself! ✌️
Yaaaaay Joshua ❤ nice vid thanks for all your work guys, i am so happy to see a new cardmarket video in my inbox 🎉😊
6:38 You can effectively think of floodgates as Yu-Gi-Oh!'s version of stacks pieces. Preventing your opponent from playing the game :3
There's no way a Yu-Gi-Oh player misses on Tibalt unless they just psych themselves out. It's slow, it discards randomly, and the cost difference and value of a planeswalker aren't things they would typically feel.
Though funny enough, in YGO, Danger! Monsters were meta despite it randomly discarding from hand, and doing different effects based on if it hit itself or not. Even though it was unreliable, it benefited from being self resource replenishing extenders... more often than not. This was a format where rank 3 was basically a win if uninterrupted, but the other ones had big bodies and big levels.
Far cry from the obvious slow Tibalt
@@monkeylemuryou are ignoring the entire context of danger
Fist: simply the critical mass of danger
Second: how much better discard is in Yugioh compared to magic
Third: how fast danger were when they first released
And lastly although the discard on the dangers are random all of them are +1 when they hit and all the good ones and even some of the bad ones are + 1 even when they miss
Dangers special summon themselves though, that's the big difference. This big boy is more like Dark World Dealings every turn (but worse)
Bro you got Jesse Kotton to play Staple or Stinker!? (heh, sorry but I can't help but rub salt in the wound after this year's worlds finals).
Also here's something Josh didn't even realize, he actually reacted to Sam doing Staple or Stinker a year-ish ago (he was in pain watching Sam's attempt), and he saw Sam get Thalia, and Josh guessed it right there too. Guess he forgot about it, but either way, he's a champ for a reason (and he might be picking up another YCS win this week after getting one around this time last year in the same city no less).
So happy to see Josh here again, I love watching him
You guys really need to ask Joshua to evaluate cards for an upcoming edition during spoiler season 😁
1:20 An Enchantment is the Magic equivalent of a Continuos Spell, not a Field spell.
Current Field Spell is just Contunuous Spell with their own slot, so not really wrong in the practice.
i will allways haunt you josh you can never escape speedroid
The missing context for why Lurrus was broken was that the floor was often that you looked at the top of someone's library and drew an extra card for free every single turn because of Mishra's Bauble, and if you were doing anything other than that it was absolutely obscene
But I love that Joshua has zero context for how planeswalkers actually play out and Tibalt on its face *still* seems awful even then
Pak is at Bologna for a YCS, hopefully they invited him. Would love to see him analyze Magic cards
He works a full time job in addition to all of his other endeavors. It might be a lot to ask for him to immediately go from Italy to Germany and then take an extra day or two off work.
@CaptainMarvel4Ever Oh I completely understand. I just think it would be cool. Also a good opportunity since he's already in Europe, which I don't think happens a lot.
@@ThetrueKidGoku
Oh hey I agree completely, I love Pak, and seeing him flex his analysis skills would be great. It's just tough for him since he's so ambitious not only in Yu-Gi-Oh, but all aspects of life.
In the meantime, Julius Schwarzkopf may be a good pick. He's where Pak was 5 years ago as the current #1 rookie, and he's a local of Germany. Just like Pak he made top 8 today, and with Mermail no less (his feature match was over in no time as he got a quick and clean win).
Dude knows his stuff. It's nice that game theory spans across genres. It's also kind of hilarious that a Yugioh player can evaluate MTG cards better than a lot of MTG players. Tibalt was one word away from being a good card. "Random" makes the card infinitely worse. I honestly don't think he'd be all that busted if you took the random aspect away either. I think they played it too safe with him.
The more I read Tibalt, the more I can't understand how people though it was going to be a good card.
4 random discards to *maybe* have a payoff...if your opponent isn't playing creatures, you're SOL.
Would be cool if red had cards that had a triggered ability specifically off of being randomly discarded
Tibalt would be great in a Dark World deck (not that we want more support for solitaire decks)
@@sineupp I don't think adding more rng to dark world discards on top of the dangers would make the deck better.
Well you can proliferate to increase it's power, then you just need to protect it.
But having to build the deck around making it work means it's probably a bad card. Unless it instantly wins (which this doesn't really.)
At least fervor will most definitely have at least some payoff, Tibalt is just more of a cost to 'maybe' use it's ultimate.
I can't believe a Yu-Gi-Oh champion didn't realize how broken an Extra Deck monster is.
most planeswalkers: kill on sight
tibalt: let the opponent discard their good cards
Fervor would be more like a Continuous Spell. Field Spells are basically World Enchantments or Legendary Enchantments.
Saying Tibalt is a tough one is the meanest bait I have ever seen :P
should add a fan submitted card into staple or stinker as an extra variable
this guy knows his stuff. great video, awesome reasoning from him
Lurrus without errata was arguably on par with power 9. Feel like his brokenness wasn't communicated clearly enough here.
WE LOVE JOSHUA SCHMIDT!!!!!!
Whoo! It's back.
If you wanted to set the comments section of fire, putting Temple of the False God, Reliquary tower and Enlightened Tutor on there would be hilarious.
I tried to reason with myself that Fervor might not be too bad in casual commander..
Which means it's an absolute stinker :'-)
In my Krenko deck I have 4 cards that give permanent haste to all my creatures. All of them are better than Fervor. They all cost 3 mana as well but do something else:
- Goblin Chieftain is a goblin creature that gives all the other goblins +1/+1.
- Goblin Warchief is a goblin creature that reduces the cost of every other goblin by 1.
- Tuktuk Rubblefort is a 0/3 wall creature with reach, meaning I can also use it to block, even flyers.
- Rising of the Day is power-crept Fervor. It's exactly the same but also gives my 5 legendary creatures (including my commander) +1/+0 (it's also an uncommon against Fervor that's rare).
So given that Fervor is so easily outclassed in a format where it would be somewhat useful, I deduced that it had no chance of being good in a 1v1 format.
Floodgate is the equivalent of stax the more you know!
Floodgates are known as Stax in MtG
Carl just gave the best explanation of a planeswalker in a game of Magic I've ever heard. By the way, is Grazer a staple? I would of thought it was a straight up stinker -only good in turn one, and after that you wouldn't want to draw multiple of them-.
I dont know enough about standard to know where it saw play but i know it did, and then there's amulet titan in modern
Carl, you lie... Tibalt is NO friend... but a FIEND :-P
You should display cards in front of the two Staple/Stinker winners and have them build a deck by picking a card out of the selections, which are Staples and Stinkers and then have them play
What an intelligent guy. Can tell he’s reaching down to knowledge about probably hearthstone in his mind but he was spot on so far. Almost seems like he knows these cards already but probs just a high iq lad.
OK hear me out: if you get the crown, the next person has to answer one more if they want to go for the crown. And then one more to challenge that person.
Cardmarket got me to start playing again and I went from never getting these to knowing them straight away
Idk if josh will ever see this but there were soul sister decks that would main-deck run a few copies with another card called Heliod the sun crowned. They didn't see top table success but it did float around tier 3 in modern at the time
I got the first one wrong, it seemed good, but that is fair.
I don't normally go in for this kinda content, but my boy getting the crown made it all worth it.
I knew (or, at least, I had a hunch) that Josh would hate Tibalt because he values consistency a lot and would thus hate the random discard.
I love how he went on analyzing Fervor the way it could be Fires of Yavimaya
Fervor also has the issue, that alot of red creatures already have haste. Not all, but plenty of decent haste havers. Might be better in a multi color deck that's splashing in the red, but you might as well do boots instead, a creature only needs haste for one turn, and it can be done colorless..
Hearing this glowing review of Thalia, and looking at the meta now as a modern taxes player makes me weep.
She's still played in legacy and pioneer :)
Staple or Stinker - Vanilla Edition (with the caveat that some used to be staples)
Staples:
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Watchwolf
Stinkers:
Gigantosaurus
Yargle and Multani
Aegis Turtle
i think we undersold lurrus a bit. lurrus is quite possibly the strongest card in all of mtg including power 9 and other absurd early mtg cards
You were spot-on with Tibalt. He needs to stay around a long time to get real use out of his stronger abilities and the random discard is too steep a cost for such a fragile permanent. It *might* have been playable (and even that might be a stretch) in aggro decks or graveyard decks if you got to choose the discarded card but alas, he is complete ass. Even the next worst 2 mana Planeswalker is lightyears more playable than 2-mana Tibalt and it has a restriction of not being castable for the first three turns of the game lol.
It is also easyer for Non-Magic-Player to guess it, because they dont know how busted most 3 cmc PW were at this time.
Funnily enough, Fervor works great for enchantment removal bait.
1 minute in, “enchantments would be called a field spell”
We just forgetting continuous spells exist?
Remember, Lurrus was the only card ever to be banned in Vintage for being too good.
The way I started cackling when he read lurrus name
My thoughts on each card as presented, as someone who has played a number of card games but never really got into Magic
Furvor - reads OK, but my impression of Red is that it already has plenty of creatures that have haste or otherwise do things on play, and if you're doing a multicolor deck, you're paying 3 mana to set up for a combo, which doesn't sound amazing. - Stinker
Arboreal Grazer - this is ramp and ramp is good, the question is how does this compare to other ramp cards? I know Magic has one drops that can tap for mana, so how does this compare to them? Unlike those, you need to have 3 lands in hand to make use of this turn one (a forest to tap to play it, a second land to get from the effect, and a third land to play at the start of your next turn or else what was the point?). Under that condition, this is better than those because you get the extra mana every turn going forward, even if this creature is removed, and it can also be used to attack or block or such since it doesn't need to tap itself. Needing to have 3 lands in hand feels a bit dicey but i think Magic players are used to needing to draw lands, so I don't think it's actually that much of an ask - Staple.
Thalia - Taxing most cards can cause a lot of problems for your opponent (and for you but presumably you're deckbuilding to account for this), and its a little hard to remove since you need to block with at least a 1/3 or cast a removal spell that will get cost increased. The obvious counter to this is a creature that can hit it for one on play, or any effect already on board that can ping it for one damage, but I'm not sure how common those are. I'm a bit torn on this overall but i think what it comes down to is that if this card was a staple, I'm not sure it would be healthy for the game overall and would get complained about a lot, so - Stinker
Lurrus - oh i think I've heard of this one, isnt this the one that got the Companion keyword changed? Oh wait, they're talking about it with the updated text, I think originally you just got to play it for 3 from out of the game right? I think i heard that change killed the mechanic so - Stinker
Tibalt - the +1 filters and maybe stages something in the graveyard but the first two effects dont seem amazing and i doubt this ever survived to do the -6, especially if there are creatures on the board to be stolen - Stinker
Can't wait for the farfa episode
Now you will need to do more cards in one video to break this tie.
Lurrus is the king of vintage. That’s how good it is right now.
When are we getting domain video
Now you gotta have both of them on but interview them separately. Reference the TH-camr Rarran. He’s had a lot of similar types of videos! If they tie, have a tiebreaker ready!
The main reason why lurrus was not being played in decks a lot ist easy ... Because you then could not play him as companion.
So here's the thing about Lurrus: it's *the only card* to ever be banned in Vintage for being too powerful. Most obscenely powerful cards get banned in other formats but merely restricted in Vintage to being 1-per-deck. But that doesn't help with Lurrus, because the companion mechanic means you're only keeping one copy in your sideboard anyway! Lurrus has since been unbanned in Vintage, however -- and to give you an idea of Vintage's power level, Thalia isn't restricted, while cards like black lotus, ancestral recall, and time walk are all restricted (and can all be re-cast with Lurrus -- in fact, Lurrus recasting Time Walk is a two card infinite turns combo.)
Carl pulling out the tactical Tibalt😂
damn he nailed it despite not knowing what lifelink does
Hello friend, interesting profile picture you got there. 😅
9:22 hahah the real time realization that Lurus + Thalia is broken
Oh, such timing. Video just uploaded as I opened youtube xD
Maybe we were waiting for you to open youtube to post it 👀
3:49 cards like that always throw me off. Like how do you handle cards that were definitely mvips at one point in time but those days are gone… and/or cards that are really great but only in specific niche decks.
Also this was in the ravagan meta and having a blocker for ravagan was super impactful.
surprised that the vintage black lotus loop went unmentioned
I feel like fervor could have a place in a red-green storm deck just to play all your llanowar elves, birds of paradise, etc for free in one turn...
I am so glad they hit hte buzzer at the end. I would have been hearbroken if we didn't get to hear it at least once.
Chekhov’s buzzer
5:45 JUDGE, aktchually🤓if Thalia fights a 2/2 they both die but if she blocks or is blocked by a 2/2 then she kills it first
I'm trying to explain this to a non-magic player ;) trying to use the exact terminology assuming they would know what it means would just confuse them
@@CardmarketMagic I'm fully aware don't worry I just like being facetious
Tbh Tibalt biggest issue is that he dies to lightning bolt...(and that the discard is at random).
If he either was starting on 3 or you could pick what you discard he would be at least all right. Granted I dont remember If lightning bolt and him were legal at the same time, but one of the check for planeswalkers is, can you survive lightning bolt? If they cant they need to have very good ability since they are better to be treated as one ability only
Unles you are Ajani, Nacatl Pariah then you bring so much value that you can die to LB and its fine.
Woo more content with Josh!
Seth is FUMING at Arboreal Grazer being classified a staple right now.
i remember day 9 referring to arboreal grazer as the worst card that was still somehow good enough for competitive magic
More Josh please!
After evaluating fervor... should then show fires of yavimaya.
Finally !
Assemble !
My favorite format on this channel!
nice! mtg traps with yugioh expert guest!
This series are really good
Could you show them Gurmag Angler I think it's called and Arclight Phoenix? I think those are interesting cards. Maybe Karn Liberated and Karn, The Great Creator as well?
I'll be honest. I thought "floodgate" was a pretty common term for games. Pleased that despite being outside of MtG for a few years now, I still managed to get 5/5.
Great vid! I love josh, he's my yugioh goat
I played with Tibalt in Standard. He really wants a deck where his "disadvantage" is less painful than elsewhere - you can't just usefully throw it into any deck. Back then I played Boros Reanimator - excuse me, Boros Resurrector - and probably about 2/3 of my deck didn't mind ending up in the graveyard. My deck originally had two copies and really wanted a third. But yes, in general, it's a Bad Card.
when i see aboreal grazer, i immideately think its bad; probably wathced to much mtg goldfish at this point XD
Eh isnt it pretty good by their standards cause lands are busted. It's easy ramp, and non-basic as well.
@@HeneLv Yes. Pretty sure Phil regularly plays it in his commander decks and I've seen both Crim and Seth play it in green decks on the main channel gameplay vids.
@@kylegonewild I mostly listen to seth (since i just cant vibe with crim) and he seems to have a love/hate relationship with it.
Need a head to head to determine the true champ.