Building big is nice and all, but you are going to hate what Legendary quality items will do. 1 legendary foundry, with legendary prod modules and 1 legendary beacon with legendary speed modules will output more iron/copper then a green stacked belt can contain. I feel like the whole idea of the DLC is to go throw the science unlocks and start scrapping for legendary as soon as possible, skipping the inbetween qualities, as once legendary gets rolling it will just compound in quantity really fast. One tip, is go for level 2 modules and try getting those in higher qualities. It takes only circuits and is better the a normal level 3 module (which takes an extra ingredient). Once a whole base is running on legendary level 2 modules, you will be set to easily scale to legendary level 3 modules
very neat factory, but one note on upcycling/ recycling iron plates. its way more efficient to craft plates into gears first before recycling, that’s one more step that has a chance to quality up the item(or productivity if you want simpler setup), even more noticeable for copper since copper cable would be crafted with quality and productivity in EM plant, but its a bit redundant due to how easy it is to make and scrap quality LDS from foundry. oh and recycling gear is also faster than recycling plates (0.5s vs 3.2s) @edit: actually after some testing, iron chest is probably better for upcycling, and while that forces me to waste some iron on crafting legendary gears, throughput is much better.
"Seductive" is absolutely the word I would use to describe quality. It is very enticing when you see the gains it can provide, especially when trying to maximise production in the post-game, but even just for that little initial boost earlier on. However, it also makes logistics and ratios a complete _nightmare,_ forcing you to either think _extremely_ carefully about how you're building everything, or making you throw so many resources that your factory took the time to produce down the drain, never to be seen again. Outside of special-purpose quality cyclers, I pretty much always use bots to handle quality, and in both cases something _always_ gets jammed _somewhere._
there's a funny rendering or video compression artefact - at 27:00 the ground around conveyors wants to slide with the conveyors. the Nauvis base is making the world spin!
I love your bases and explanation. To make things legendary the more stable way is to obtain the base materials legendary directly and build from there instead of reciclyng the item you want. To obtain legenday iron, the easiest and more consistent way is to have a space platform with the exanging of meteor chunks into other meteor chunks with quality mods. It has a loss of 20% vs the 75% loss of recycling. You exange them in each quality level until you reach legendary, and cycle the legendary versions you don;t want until you have the legendary meteor chunk you need (metalic for iron/copper for instance). Then you crush the legendary meteor chunk with productivity and you obtain an infinite, and kind of stable, source of legendary materials. You can obtain this way iron, copper, coal, and calcite in legendary quality. With legendary calcyte you can obtain legendary stone in vulcanus, and with legendary plastic from legendary coal you can do legendary low density structures, that can be recycled into legendary steel, copper and plastic. The question prod vs quality was already explored (in an excel sheet too) by Nilaus XD
Yes, theoretically, but also we can only have one cargo landing pad on each planet, and it has only a certain number of sides from which we can withdraw things. I'm already gonna be doing calcite and several sciences through the landing pad. There is a limit. I'm not discounting it, I'm just saying it isn't a slam dunk. On a more general note, I'm gonna be doing quality everywhere. On each planet and in space if it is beneficial. I want to do a video with a full big picture breakdown of quality so I need to find out. That requires a certain amount of f**king around.
I am afraid at some point you just have to use bots to unload landing pads. It’s a pity, but from what I understood, It was a necessary compromise to avoid people using landing pads as big teleportation devices.
@@Erichteia I will fight this ultimate conclusion with every fibre of my being before I succumb!! I don't understand the teleportation thing though, the landing pads can only accept stuff, no? It can only ever be one way travel.
@@theotherbigfoot One thing i have seen someone doo was unload from the landing pad into wagons to add more area you can withdraw from. Similar to the Beltless video fro Dosh.
I really cant wait to see how you tackle gleba, ive been trying to figure out a working base for weeks. I think my biggest struggle with it is the idea of using everything and not wasting anything leading to massive amounts of spoilage
I think the most reliable way to deal with qualitites is to split it up into production/sorting/recycling, so things can't clog up and everything is in order.
For Nauvis I'm kinda leaning towards a small redundant factory with no quality that can feed some background flows when things jam up. I'm not sure I wanna be scrapping stuff on Nauvis yet. I haven't found a happy place yet, that's for sure.
The solution to your "I'm worried about belt constraints" is mostly just Stacked Belts and Stack Inserters. I know that you like to keep things constrained on a planet by planet basis, which is great, but I think you'll have to move intermediates from one planet to the other in rather large quantities which will be interesting to see if you do it that way.
I know about stacked belts and inserters, I just haven't played with them to understand exactly how they work. I had them on the first run but I didn't fully appreciate the significance of them. A lot of mistakes from that first run to be honest. I already need to move calcite in order to moltenise the iron and copper. I'm not a million miles away from shipping tungsten on the same ship to make artillery. It's still early days yet.
Huh, I was under the impression this was going to be a vanilla playthrough. Did you change your mind on that, or did I miss something? (I'm new to the channel, but I am aware you've done modded stuff before.) Also, what do you like about loaders? To me it seems they trivialize some aspects of factory design, but maybe that gives you time to focus on the more interesting design challenges.
@@areadenial2343 I can't ever play true 100% vanilla because I need the timelapse mod. Once you've broken the seal on that kind of thing it becomes difficult to stop!! Loaders... I fell in love with them in my space ex krastorio run and now I kinda want them forever. It's not the only mod, I downloaded one for extra length underground belts a couple days ago, I have flow control because I hate vanilla pipes. I'm not really here to adhere to a strict set of rules of what I am and am not allowed to do, I'm here to have fun.
High concept, Mr. Bigfoot; foundries--on fulgora--from iron ore--from concrete. Space is where ive sourced carbon for coal for plastic on fulgora. Space is a whole thing, though. Foundries do provide an on demand iron supply on fulgora
I've been turning the concrete into hazard concrete to recycle it, I thought that when we recycled concrete we got more concrete. That's another really good source of iron I haven't accounted for. Learning learning learning.
I don't think you get any iron ore back, just concrete. That's the same with a few other products, you just get the product back a percentage of the time. This lets you "delete" something when you have too much.
Replying as watching, you'll probably bring it up later lol. In terms of Iron/Steel etc for Fulgora, you can supplement it from space for free and restrict it due to how much is in storage, you should, for the most, have Iron fulfilled forever. Copper I think is late game, can't get it from space in the mid game.
Some things are better upcycled than produced from raw. Things like making legendary eggs from soil (the spoiling alone makes this logical) or u-235 from atomic bombs or creating an upcycler with quality for the first and prod modules for all other quality levels.
Hi :3 have you considered using stack inserters for the copper cable? It quadruples the capacity of each belt (when fully researched) as you know. That's at least my solution to the copper cable conundrum. P.S. can't wait for the next video, it's really fun to see how you approach builds.
Stack inserters would be the next big upgrade/rebuild I think, along with (hopefully) higher quality assembly machines and foundries and the like, the things I'm gonna make with this 'quality' setup. It is on my mind that I'm gonna need thousands of quality modules to fill this factory, if I start using buildings with higher crafting speeds than that reduces the number of modules I need.
@theotherbigfoot I'm very curious to see how the accumulation of quality machines and modules will work out. My approach was somewhat scuffed and it took ages to get legendary T3 quality modules together for the factory that will produce them on a larger scale. Today I will finally build it :3
Only just got to 7 min in, feels like you're compromising when you add quality in. But maybe I'm biased, I'm really not a fan of quality. I'd much rather build two machines than have one that's twice as good, and that's what I really love about your builds thus far - no modules, no beacons, no bots, max low level assemblers, etc
I feel like I need to explore the 'quality' mechanic just to see if it is worthwhile or not. In no small way factorio is a different game now and on certain things I feel like I'm starting from scratch. Yes, who cares about faster machines, but asteroid collectors with more arms? A legendary mech armour? Those kinds of things are incredibly enticing.
I always look forward towards your videos. Some of the most satisfying timelapses! Once all your machines get high quality, be ready for some mad production rates. Who knows, maybe you’ll even be tempted to try beacons one day 😉
This is not the ultimate upgrade. It might not even be the penultimate upgrade. I have no idea what the final end point looks like at this moment. I have big questions.
Is it just me, or are you using less of the "center line geometry widgets" these days? Your builds have this beautiful symmetry to them still, I just mean that I see less of those widgets from your previous videos. Or maybe I am just not seeing them.
I would say that I am building in a way that avoids risks. Avoids boxing myself into corners. I would say that I'm doing this because space age is new to me and I don't fully have a plan yet. In old factorio I always had a plan. I don't know if I've noticed any discernable difference in factory design but if there is it's because I don't really know what I'm doing.
I've been having a lot of trouble with Factorio since the 2.0 space age update. I put 6000 hours into 1.0 and it's predecessors and I really enjoyed it. But since space age, I just find the game frustrating. And when I see your spreadsheets here, (I have zero intention of creating spreadsheets in order to play a game ) I finally decided that Factorio is dead to me. Clearly the developers do not have ordinary people like me as their target audience. I have watched your videos and those of many other TH-cam folk and one by one I have unsubscribed from them all. Now I'm going to uninstall.
This is easily the most heart wrenching comment that I've ever received. I'm guessing (hoping) the spreadsheet wasn't the sole cause and that it was just the hair that broke the camel's back. If it's any consolation, the spreadsheet wasn't all that useful. There's only so much you can keep to a formula before it loses it's fun (I guess that's kinda the argument you are making). Here's hoping some time away from the game brings back the fire.
@@theotherbigfoot No, of course not, the spreadsheet was certainly not the sole cause.... I am sorry, I did not set out to upset you. My frustration with the game just came to a head when I saw the massive level of effort put into that sheet. The ruination of the train system was disappointing... so I had re-created all my blueprints. Then the failure of the mods that supported the old train system, the undocumented complexity of the train interrupt system, the apparent competition by the YT community to splash out as many videos as possible as quickly as possible with as little explanation as possible was mystifying to me. (with your behaviour being the exception I found). Maybe I will go back to it one day.
@@dallas88b It only upset me insofar as I love this game and I feel like you loved it too, but now you don't. I get it by the way, the game is so different now that it is a completely different game. It's just sad to me that some are being left behind. I am keeping my powder dry for future videos. True insight takes time. A bad rushed video is always a bad rushed video. Stay safe dude, the game ain't going anywhere, it'll be here to overwhelm you whenever you are ready!!
The way you build looks amazing!
Building big is nice and all, but you are going to hate what Legendary quality items will do.
1 legendary foundry, with legendary prod modules and 1 legendary beacon with legendary speed modules will output more iron/copper then a green stacked belt can contain.
I feel like the whole idea of the DLC is to go throw the science unlocks and start scrapping for legendary as soon as possible, skipping the inbetween qualities, as once legendary gets rolling it will just compound in quantity really fast.
One tip, is go for level 2 modules and try getting those in higher qualities. It takes only circuits and is better the a normal level 3 module (which takes an extra ingredient). Once a whole base is running on legendary level 2 modules, you will be set to easily scale to legendary level 3 modules
I agree 100% with your final thoughts. I don't have any desire to start a new factory, I want to live in my current factory forever.
very neat factory, but one note on upcycling/ recycling iron plates. its way more efficient to craft plates into gears first before recycling, that’s one more step that has a chance to quality up the item(or productivity if you want simpler setup), even more noticeable for copper since copper cable would be crafted with quality and productivity in EM plant, but its a bit redundant due to how easy it is to make and scrap quality LDS from foundry.
oh and recycling gear is also faster than recycling plates (0.5s vs 3.2s)
@edit: actually after some testing, iron chest is probably better for upcycling, and while that forces me to waste some iron on crafting legendary gears, throughput is much better.
"Seductive" is absolutely the word I would use to describe quality. It is very enticing when you see the gains it can provide, especially when trying to maximise production in the post-game, but even just for that little initial boost earlier on. However, it also makes logistics and ratios a complete _nightmare,_ forcing you to either think _extremely_ carefully about how you're building everything, or making you throw so many resources that your factory took the time to produce down the drain, never to be seen again. Outside of special-purpose quality cyclers, I pretty much always use bots to handle quality, and in both cases something _always_ gets jammed _somewhere._
there's a funny rendering or video compression artefact - at 27:00 the ground around conveyors wants to slide with the conveyors. the Nauvis base is making the world spin!
I love your bases and explanation. To make things legendary the more stable way is to obtain the base materials legendary directly and build from there instead of reciclyng the item you want. To obtain legenday iron, the easiest and more consistent way is to have a space platform with the exanging of meteor chunks into other meteor chunks with quality mods. It has a loss of 20% vs the 75% loss of recycling. You exange them in each quality level until you reach legendary, and cycle the legendary versions you don;t want until you have the legendary meteor chunk you need (metalic for iron/copper for instance). Then you crush the legendary meteor chunk with productivity and you obtain an infinite, and kind of stable, source of legendary materials.
You can obtain this way iron, copper, coal, and calcite in legendary quality. With legendary calcyte you can obtain legendary stone in vulcanus, and with legendary plastic from legendary coal you can do legendary low density structures, that can be recycled into legendary steel, copper and plastic.
The question prod vs quality was already explored (in an excel sheet too) by Nilaus XD
Yes, theoretically, but also we can only have one cargo landing pad on each planet, and it has only a certain number of sides from which we can withdraw things. I'm already gonna be doing calcite and several sciences through the landing pad. There is a limit. I'm not discounting it, I'm just saying it isn't a slam dunk.
On a more general note, I'm gonna be doing quality everywhere. On each planet and in space if it is beneficial. I want to do a video with a full big picture breakdown of quality so I need to find out. That requires a certain amount of f**king around.
@theotherbigfoot yes the inputs from the cargo pad are annoying.. this is why when I started my 3rd playthrough I added loaders for that alone.
I am afraid at some point you just have to use bots to unload landing pads. It’s a pity, but from what I understood, It was a necessary compromise to avoid people using landing pads as big teleportation devices.
@@Erichteia I will fight this ultimate conclusion with every fibre of my being before I succumb!!
I don't understand the teleportation thing though, the landing pads can only accept stuff, no? It can only ever be one way travel.
@@theotherbigfoot One thing i have seen someone doo was unload from the landing pad into wagons to add more area you can withdraw from. Similar to the Beltless video fro Dosh.
I really cant wait to see how you tackle gleba, ive been trying to figure out a working base for weeks. I think my biggest struggle with it is the idea of using everything and not wasting anything leading to massive amounts of spoilage
Have you watched any of the first series? Gleba got me pretty worked up first time around.
@@theotherbigfoot i have not, but i might come around to it soon
@@StevenSparks Needless to say, I have some idea of what I'm doing on Gleba, even if its still gonna be a bit painful.
I think the most reliable way to deal with qualitites is to split it up into production/sorting/recycling, so things can't clog up and everything is in order.
For Nauvis I'm kinda leaning towards a small redundant factory with no quality that can feed some background flows when things jam up. I'm not sure I wanna be scrapping stuff on Nauvis yet.
I haven't found a happy place yet, that's for sure.
Good thing is watching your videos and streams never spoils figuring out the game for me cus I can never keep up with what's going on 😅
The solution to your "I'm worried about belt constraints" is mostly just Stacked Belts and Stack Inserters.
I know that you like to keep things constrained on a planet by planet basis, which is great, but I think you'll have to move intermediates from one planet to the other in rather large quantities which will be interesting to see if you do it that way.
I know about stacked belts and inserters, I just haven't played with them to understand exactly how they work. I had them on the first run but I didn't fully appreciate the significance of them. A lot of mistakes from that first run to be honest.
I already need to move calcite in order to moltenise the iron and copper. I'm not a million miles away from shipping tungsten on the same ship to make artillery. It's still early days yet.
20:59 What crafting recipe is that on the second row of foundries? I don't recognize the icon. Some kind of weird-looking conveyor belt thing?
Loaders
Huh, I was under the impression this was going to be a vanilla playthrough. Did you change your mind on that, or did I miss something? (I'm new to the channel, but I am aware you've done modded stuff before.) Also, what do you like about loaders? To me it seems they trivialize some aspects of factory design, but maybe that gives you time to focus on the more interesting design challenges.
@@areadenial2343 I can't ever play true 100% vanilla because I need the timelapse mod. Once you've broken the seal on that kind of thing it becomes difficult to stop!!
Loaders... I fell in love with them in my space ex krastorio run and now I kinda want them forever. It's not the only mod, I downloaded one for extra length underground belts a couple days ago, I have flow control because I hate vanilla pipes.
I'm not really here to adhere to a strict set of rules of what I am and am not allowed to do, I'm here to have fun.
High concept, Mr. Bigfoot; foundries--on fulgora--from iron ore--from concrete. Space is where ive sourced carbon for coal for plastic on fulgora. Space is a whole thing, though. Foundries do provide an on demand iron supply on fulgora
I've been turning the concrete into hazard concrete to recycle it, I thought that when we recycled concrete we got more concrete. That's another really good source of iron I haven't accounted for. Learning learning learning.
@theotherbigfoot throw in some quality modules and you got a stew
I don't think you get any iron ore back, just concrete. That's the same with a few other products, you just get the product back a percentage of the time. This lets you "delete" something when you have too much.
@@bwoodward308 have you tried recycling concrete?
@@sugondiesthephilosopher ah yes, I was wrong. There are some things that just give the product back, but concrete is not one of them.
how do you do to build nearby canalisation that do not connect????
Pipes?
@@theotherbigfoot yes, i don't understand how you do it
@@guygallego2990 Flow control, its a mod. My favourite mod to be honest.
Green stacked belts move 240items. Would help with your throughput issues
Replying as watching, you'll probably bring it up later lol.
In terms of Iron/Steel etc for Fulgora, you can supplement it from space for free and restrict it due to how much is in storage, you should, for the most, have Iron fulfilled forever. Copper I think is late game, can't get it from space in the mid game.
that's a nice space platform ! at the 1st minute of video
Some things are better upcycled than produced from raw. Things like making legendary eggs from soil (the spoiling alone makes this logical) or u-235 from atomic bombs or creating an upcycler with quality for the first and prod modules for all other quality levels.
Hi :3 have you considered using stack inserters for the copper cable? It quadruples the capacity of each belt (when fully researched) as you know.
That's at least my solution to the copper cable conundrum.
P.S. can't wait for the next video, it's really fun to see how you approach builds.
Stack inserters would be the next big upgrade/rebuild I think, along with (hopefully) higher quality assembly machines and foundries and the like, the things I'm gonna make with this 'quality' setup. It is on my mind that I'm gonna need thousands of quality modules to fill this factory, if I start using buildings with higher crafting speeds than that reduces the number of modules I need.
@theotherbigfoot I'm very curious to see how the accumulation of quality machines and modules will work out. My approach was somewhat scuffed and it took ages to get legendary T3 quality modules together for the factory that will produce them on a larger scale. Today I will finally build it :3
Only just got to 7 min in, feels like you're compromising when you add quality in. But maybe I'm biased, I'm really not a fan of quality. I'd much rather build two machines than have one that's twice as good, and that's what I really love about your builds thus far - no modules, no beacons, no bots, max low level assemblers, etc
I feel like I need to explore the 'quality' mechanic just to see if it is worthwhile or not. In no small way factorio is a different game now and on certain things I feel like I'm starting from scratch.
Yes, who cares about faster machines, but asteroid collectors with more arms? A legendary mech armour? Those kinds of things are incredibly enticing.
I always look forward towards your videos. Some of the most satisfying timelapses! Once all your machines get high quality, be ready for some mad production rates. Who knows, maybe you’ll even be tempted to try beacons one day 😉
This is not the ultimate upgrade. It might not even be the penultimate upgrade. I have no idea what the final end point looks like at this moment. I have big questions.
Is it just me, or are you using less of the "center line geometry widgets" these days? Your builds have this beautiful symmetry to them still, I just mean that I see less of those widgets from your previous videos. Or maybe I am just not seeing them.
I would say that I am building in a way that avoids risks. Avoids boxing myself into corners. I would say that I'm doing this because space age is new to me and I don't fully have a plan yet. In old factorio I always had a plan.
I don't know if I've noticed any discernable difference in factory design but if there is it's because I don't really know what I'm doing.
I've been having a lot of trouble with Factorio since the 2.0 space age update. I put 6000 hours into 1.0 and it's predecessors and I really enjoyed it.
But since space age, I just find the game frustrating.
And when I see your spreadsheets here, (I have zero intention of creating spreadsheets in order to play a game ) I finally decided that Factorio is dead to me. Clearly the developers do not have ordinary people like me as their target audience.
I have watched your videos and those of many other TH-cam folk and one by one I have unsubscribed from them all.
Now I'm going to uninstall.
This is easily the most heart wrenching comment that I've ever received. I'm guessing (hoping) the spreadsheet wasn't the sole cause and that it was just the hair that broke the camel's back. If it's any consolation, the spreadsheet wasn't all that useful. There's only so much you can keep to a formula before it loses it's fun (I guess that's kinda the argument you are making).
Here's hoping some time away from the game brings back the fire.
@@theotherbigfoot No, of course not, the spreadsheet was certainly not the sole cause.... I am sorry, I did not set out to upset you. My frustration with the game just came to a head when I saw the massive level of effort put into that sheet. The ruination of the train system was disappointing... so I had re-created all my blueprints. Then the failure of the mods that supported the old train system, the undocumented complexity of the train interrupt system, the apparent competition by the YT community to splash out as many videos as possible as quickly as possible with as little explanation as possible was mystifying to me. (with your behaviour being the exception I found). Maybe I will go back to it one day.
@@dallas88b It only upset me insofar as I love this game and I feel like you loved it too, but now you don't. I get it by the way, the game is so different now that it is a completely different game. It's just sad to me that some are being left behind.
I am keeping my powder dry for future videos. True insight takes time. A bad rushed video is always a bad rushed video.
Stay safe dude, the game ain't going anywhere, it'll be here to overwhelm you whenever you are ready!!