THANK YOU!!! To sum up my traditional archery education so far its like the lyrics in that song "I ain't as good as I'm gonna get But I'm better than I used to be" Tim McGraw. Lol getting to the point no pun intended. In 2019 I started learning how to use a recurve bow and I'm learning something new every time I go to the range. To clerify one thing I use a left handed bow and that comes with its unique challenges however this video shown me something I have been doing wrong and just maybe get me to bulls eye. I was putting the bow string right up next to my nose when I get to my anchor point. Now I know I need to adjust my sight picture where my eye needs to look around the other side of the bow string. Thanks for this visual demonstration!
Hi Cody ! Hmmm... you're shooting LEFT-handed, so when my shooting method says "Step 3: Look down the LEFT EDGE of the bowstring"... YOU change that to "Step 3 Look down the RIGHT EDGE of the bowstring" ! After that all the rest of is the same - good luck ! -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
I've taken up archery again since Christmas 2022. Forgot how much I love it!. I've tried other methods, not to keen to be honest. This method is genius, Aiming the tip at your target makes all the sense. Hitting the bullseye after an 18year gap is awesome. Thank you for the great videos. 👍
Greetings Dave and welcome to VOGTLAND OUTDOORS !!! Your post was MUSIC TO MY EARS - I LIVE FOR THIS KIND OF FEEDBACK !!! BACK after an 18 YEARS HIATUS - and HITTING BULLSEYES with a SUPERIOR Shooting METHOD ??? LOVE THIS !!! WATCH THESE VIDEOS: th-cam.com/video/MGDvz4WG8TU/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/aucX8j7vLY8/w-d-xo.html Very kind regards, -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
I'm 63 years old. When I was younger (16 to 25) I was very much into archery, and actually quite accurate. But then life got in the way! In the last few months I've been getting back into it, at a friend's urging. Ive' watched a ton of videos on technique and haven't had much success with any method. THIS is the best method for ME! I'm using three different bows. Samick Sage 30#, 1967 Ben Pearson Golden Sovereign 31#, and a 2021 Bodnick Slick stick 35#. Excited to say that this method works FOR ME with all three. As you said, it's like sighting a rifle! Many videos say string walking is best done with a tab and counting stitches. I prefer the feel and fit of a glove. So hadn't had much luck. All that to say THANKS for sharing your method and logic. I'm now thrilled at getting back into the sport! And a new channel to subscribe to!!!😁 BTW... fellow Illinoisian here... Edwardsville, about a mile from SIUE!
Thanks Mark! I have been trying the Vogtland Method since 2020 and it helps a lot. Anchoring under the chin works much better than anchoring on the cheek and nose....much more natural and definitely more comfortable! The issue with barebow techniques would be that there are so many to choose from and since it is a relatively "new" archery discipline, I always get some recommendations and whatnots from those who have been shooting much longer than me . What troubles me is all of them never actually completely try to understand the fundamentals of barebow anchoring, sighting, stringwalking, facewalking, distance adjustment based on arrows flight patters and all others mumbo-jumbos involved....they take it for granted - as though it is like recurve nor compound shooting. At one point some even suggested me to put on recurve sight and try making the arrow grouping more consistent - which I definitely would not do - because I am shooting BAREBOW! R.O.T.F.L!!! Some coach level shooters (who never had the experience in real barebow discipline!) even told me that their friends who shoot barebows seems to be anchoring be on the cheek all the time and the arrows MUST bet at the eye level all the time, aimed at the target desired. This actually require facewalking calculations and for me it would totally not work especially at above 30m distance because who on earth wold do "3'upper" draw and sight the target on the eye level to meet the facewalking calculation! It's gonna look too weird and I know I am not going to able to shoot the arrows at all in the end! (R.O.T.F.L. again) Anything beyond 30m, I will have to do off-set aiming while maintaining the other steps of Vogtland Method and while it is not a perfect 10-10-10 like a seasoned compound shooter can easily achieve, it is a different level of satisfaction for not relying on equipment but understanding the techniques and calculation based on our own experience. That's the beauty of shooting a barebow. Well, for me at least! At times, I would just do 3-under full draw, anchoring on the chin, aim on the left side of the string and look on the arrow point as the Vogtland Method, then I would do off-set aiming to adjust to the distance of the target instead of stringwalking everytime. I find it is much faster (almost like instinct aiming like the traditional bow discipline) though it may not be a good grouping for anything beyond 20m for me - for now. Anyways - Terima Kasih (thank you so much) Mark, from Malaysia!
Greetings Kyril from Malaysia !!! I READ YOUR COMMENTS WITH GREAT INTEREST - THANK YOU FOR SHARINNG YOUR INSIGHTS !! It seems you & I have many things in common: ====================================== 1. You & I BOTH are convinced that BAREBOW ARCHERY can be CERTAINLY be as accurate as OLYMPIC RECURVE ARCHERY, and NEARLY as accurate as COMPOUND BOW ARCHERY :-) 2. You & I BOTH have had our FILL of NON-BAREBOW archers trying to tell us BAREBOW archers "how to shoot" :-| ... 3. You & I BOTH are convinced that there ARE barebow shooting methods which MAKE SENSE; for me (and an increasing number of archers world wide) this is what I have termed The VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD, which is essentially 2 ALREADY-COMMON, ALREADY-CREDIBLE shooting methods: - Olympic Archery; and - StringWalking It seems the only topic on which you & I DIFFER is regarding this: - YOU continue to think of your DRAW as being EITHER "split finger" or "3 under"; - MARK has STOPPED thinking of his DRAW in terms of how-many-fingers-are-over-or-under-the-arrow; INSTEAD Mark simply sees "3 fingers" and a "gap", and IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MANY FINGERS ARE ABOVE OR BELOW THE ARROW - it really DOESN'T :-O :-O :-O !!! HOLY SHIT - CAN THIS BE TRUE ??? Yes, my new friend Kyril from Malaysia - IT DOESN"T MATTER WHERE YOUR FINGERS ARE; instead ALL that DOES matter is the GAP between the top of your INDEX FINGER and the ARROW's NOCK - that's it ! WHAT DOES THIS MEAN ? BRACE YOURSELF FOR THIS ANSWER: BY DRAWING with 3 fingers and NOT worrying about WHERE they are on the bowstring: - You can create "POSITIVE" gaps when all your fingers are BELOW the nock; AND - You can also create "NEGATIVE" gaps when some or all of your fingers are ABOVE THE NOCK :-O !!! WHAT the F@#$%^&* ????? YES - YOU CAN "STRINGWALK" all the way from 5 fingers BELOW the arrow nock to 3 and even 4 fingers ABOVE the arrow nock !!! NOW FOR REALITY: - StringWalking with a 4 finger gap BELOW the arrow nock will get you a distance of 5m, so there's really NO NEED to have MORE than a 4-finger-below-the-nock gap, because who's going to EVER shoot at something CLOSER than 5m ??? (no one !) - StringWalking with a 4 finger gap ABOVE the arrow nock FEELS WEIRD, but it WILL give you distances of well over 120m !! IF YOU STOP THINKING ABOUT 3-fingers-BELOW-the-nock as somehow being DIFFERENT than 1-finger-above-2-fingers-below-the-nock, you'll start to realize that it's all still just "3-fingers-on-the-BOWSTRING" and that's ALL that matters ! :-O So WHAT can you DO with this epiphany ?? ANSWER: You can SHOOT using StringWalking and 3-fingers-on-the-bowstring at ALL of the following distances, all using the SAME StringWalking, Drawing, Aiming and Releasing technique: FOR a 45# BOW (recurve, longbow, asian bow - it DOESN'T MATTER): DISTANCE GAP ========================================= 5m 4 fingers BELOW the nock 10m 3 1/2 fingers BELOW the nock 20m 3 fingers BELOW the nock 30m 2 1/2 fingers BELOW the nock 40m 2 fingers BELOW the nock 50m 1 1/2 fingers BELOW the nock 60m 1 fingers BELOW the nock 70m 1/2 fingers BELOW the nock 80m 0 fingers BELOW the nock ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 90m 1 fingers ABOVE the nock 100m 2 fingers ABOVE the nock 110m 3 fingers ABOVE the nock 120m 4 fingers ABOVE the nock SAME 3-finger draw SAME under-the-chin anchor SAME rear sight (the left edge of the bowstring SAME front sight (the arrow tip itself) SAME target (the dead center of the bullseye of your target) SAME release method (Mark's "small-motion" release) DIFFERENT "GAPS" between the index finger and the nock - THAT'S IT !!! IMAGINE a shooting method where EVERYTHING STAYS THE SAME EXCEPT FOR THE GAP (which translates into ELEVATION into RANGE) - THAT's my VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD :-) I think you just gave me my idea for the NEXT VIDEO - MANY THANKS ! Kind regards, -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Kyril ! I LOVE it when people tell me WHERE they're from - then I can go look it up on Google Earth ! ME? HOME: 211 Jessica Court, North Aurora IL 60542 USA NEAREST ARCHERY RANGE: Blackwell Forest Preserve Archery Range, Warrenville, IL USA OTHER RANGES I SHOOT AT REGULARLY: Kishwaukee Archery Club, Sycamore, IL USA Hope to hear from you where (at least what town or archery range in Malaysia) YOU shoot at ! Cheerio, -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Greetings J&Y ! Agreed - when seeing this information (and the "epiphanies" being described) for the FIRST TIME, there IS a LOT of information to absorb ! I've been monitoring comments all winter, composing a list of "Review Topics" to create ADDITIONAL videos on, and simply WAITING for the @#$%^ WEATHER TO GET BETTER, so I can MAKE these videos ! Stay tuned! ARE there any QUESTIONS youv'e got right NOW ?? -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Greetings J&Y! ANSWERS… 1. RE TILLER: I never check. It doesn’t matter (much) because you REALLY end up “tuning” your bow to your arrows (whose behavior is a function of their Spine, Length and Arrowhead Mass) and your gaps (distance between the arrow nock & your index or “drawing” finger) by ADJUSTING YOUR NOCKING POINT (POSITION) :-O 2. RE NOCKING POINT: This IS important, and here’s a truth that few “StringWalkers” are aware of: YOUR NOCKING POINT MUST CHANGE (SLIGHTLY) AS YOUR GAPS CHANGE :-O !!! So HOW DOES ONE CHANGE THEIR BOW’S NOCKING POINT “EASILY” WHEN THE VERY NATURE OF NOCKING POINTS IS THAT THEY DON’T MOVE EASILY?? :-O ANSWER: IT DEPENDS… on HOW MANY SHOTS YOU’RE MAKING AT A GIVEN GAP ;-) IF you’re ONLY TAKING ONE shot…LEAVE the Nocking Point where it is - typically this is 1 to 2 “ arrow widths” ABOVE perpendicular. IF you’re shooting a LOT of arrows (eg 60+ arrows @ 18m or 25m or 50m in a tournament), then DO adjust the Nocking Point following this simple rule: FOLLOW THE ARROW TAIL: - IF it jumps UP at release, THEN shift the Nocking Point UP - IF it jumps DOWN at release, shift the Nocking Point DOWN ADVICE: I’ve designed & use a MOVEABLE NOCKING POINT from 3 commonly-obtained “speed buttons” used to tune the bowstrings on COMPOUND BOWS :-O Go watch that video - it’ll change your shooting ! cheers, Mark Vogt / VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
From what i've gathered so far. Your string alignment gets pushed further to the right as you shoot further distance to compensate for the breakdown in arrow spine, as opposed to keeping the same alignment and adjust plunger tension. Imho the real pro of your method is having multiple anchor points if you mix it with frangilli's heretic method. Hook the thumb behind the sternocleidomastoid muscle of the neck, this basically acts as a drawstop. String on the chin & tip of the nose that sets the alignment. Will give this a shot in the coming weeks to see what happens. Should be interesting to try this now that i'm starting on making an indoor setup based around 23's. Bow is a gillo GT27 with long limbs (72" bow) so i can get to 3 anchor points with this method. On short hunting style bows like yours tip of the nose won't happen though.
Greetings Ronny and welcome to VOGTLAND OUTDOORS ! Please know the Archery "target audience" of this channel are predominantly new archers, or experienced archers new to BareBow shooting methods; as such we endeavor to try & keep complexity to a minimum, instead attempting to explain complex concepts in terms of simpler terms... COMMENTS to your comments: You: "Your string alignment gets pushed further to the right as you shoot further distances..." Me: If you observed this, it is unintentional. All all distances I seek to maintain a CONSTANT anchor point a CONSTANT sight picture of arrowtip-dead-on-bullseye. The philosophy here is SIMPLICITY of shooting method; it's 5 STEPS. PERIOD. Nothing in it changes whether shooting at 5m or 105m, except for the actual size of the "gap" (which controls the elevation hence the distance) between the nocking point of the arrow and the drawing point of the index finger. You: "to compensate for the breakdown in arrow spine, as opposed to keeping the same alignment and adjust plunger tension" Me: I do not see how the arrow spine "breaks down" for different distances. Nothing happens to the "spine" (actually a combination of the Stiffness-per-Length, Arrow Length and Arrowtip Mass) whether shooting at 10m or 100m, because at each distance the arrow is still being released at FULL DRAW, so the Initial "THRUST" placed on the arrow is the SAME at all distances, meaning its BEHAVIOR will equally be the same at all distances. Also, I have NO plunger on ANY of my bows, again for the Primary Purpose of this channel and of my shooting method: SIMPLICITY. You: mention famed Italian archer Frangilli's "Heretic Method"; Me: while I APPLAUD Frangill's DARING in being a MAVERICK and NOT "towing the party line" in regards to method, I DON'T use his method, again for the same reason as before: SIMPLICITY. Instead I do nothing more but FIRMLY PRESS the second digit of my index finger UNDER my chin and AGAINST the lower-right edge of my chin - that's ALL that's required :-O If you watch some of my more recent videos describing the IMPORTANCE of this FIRMLY-PRESSING-the-SECOND-DIGIT-AGAINST-THE-LOW-EDGE-OF-THE-CHIN, you'll see how effective this can be. You: "Will give this a shot in the coming weeks to see what happens." Me: I'M ECSTATIC - THRILLED IN FACT - PLEASE DO GIVE this shooting method a try ! I would ask this: DO NOT UTILIZE DIFFERENT ANCHOR POINTS - SIMPLE USE THE ONE UNDER-THE-CHIN ! WHY would I ask this? SIMPLE: SIMPLICITY ;-), AND I PROMISE that you will see that by anchoring ONLY under your chin you gain what I term "MAD ELEVATION", hence equally-MAD DISTANCE :-O I'm GUESSING that if you've got a GT27 and total BowLength of 72", then you likely are shooting around 38# ? IF you anchor ONLY under your chin I can PROMISE these things: - at SHORT distances (eg 10m) you will have a LARGE gap of about "3 fingers" this may feel weird at first, but you'll get over it ;-) - at MEDIUM distances (eg 20m 25m, 30m) you will have a COMFORTABLE gap of around "2 fingers" and this will feel perfectly comfortable immediately, and by simply anchoring your 2nd finger bone FIRMLY against the lower edge of your chin, you'll be PLEASED with the near-zero left-right error introduced; - at LONGER distances (eg 40m, 50m) you will have a VERY COMFORTABLE gap of around "1 fingers", and using the SAME shooting method as before, you'll be PLEASED with your groupings at 40m, and "SATISFIED" with your groupings at 50m PLEASE KNOW THIS: Since 2020 now I've been STRUGGLING with TARGET PANIC for the first time ever in my 60 years on this planet. It SUCKS, because it arrived at the SAME time that I BEGAN this channel, so that I had to make a difficult decision: DO I DARE to begin this channel and promote my shooting IN SPITE OF many of my groupings showing less-than-desirable grouping, NOT because the METHOD is inferior (it's not!) but because of Target Panic - will viewers UNDERSTAND what's going on and RESPECT me for TRYING; OR DO I instead tuck-tail and GIVE UP on this channel for fear of ridicule of some of my grouping my ignorant (and mean-spirited) viewers? I chose the FORMER (moving ahead with the channel), and have learned that the vast vast vast majority of viewers DO indeed understand why MY groupings are often less-than-ideal; I've also learned that many RESPECT me for still TRYING with this channel, and they VALUE this shooting method based on its (obvious) MERITS, not by my proving it with my own groupings ;-) THE ICING ON THE CAKE of me continuing this channel is that I get feedback from SKILLED, EXPERIENCED archers like YOURSELF, who are OPEN-MINDED about shooting methods, and actually DARE to give my shooting method a TRY. WHO COULD ASK FOR MORE THAN THAT? Please know I'm grateful for your interest & participation ! Cheers, -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS I can pretty much shoot a piece of electrical tape at 18m. The crawl is really deep though, 300 spine 150gr point eventually tuned. The nocking point was significantly higher. Out of sheer dumb luck the 4th anchor point is the nock itself touching your lips, though this is only at 18meters. The string picture is where it gets VERY interesting. Instead of aligning the string with the arrow, the string aligns dead centre on the riser. Giving you a string with 2 fine outlines of your riser (neon green with purple edges in my case). Giving you a quick check to see wheter everything is perfectly in line. 18 & 20 str work best for me. 16 str is too narrow. So far so good, will keep playing around with this in the coming weeks to finetune everything.
I see an advantage in a supported crossbow/bow similar to this for use in tuning arrows to that bow. Most archery instruction is filled with errors and freehand tuning that makes no sense. Well done 👍
Greetings Gerry ! IF you look around in that video you'll note that the one thing clearly MISSING is... my WIFE. Yup - I had to wait until she went running some errands before I set up that rig in "her" parlor - otherwise I would have been promptly SLAIN by a BAYANGI woman from CAMEROON, and the BAYANGI people are the undisputed CREATORS of VOODOO (not kidding - look it up). ;-) I need to RE-DO this video, as I think I got the point across (get it? "point" across? never mind), but there's room for improvement because I need to do this OUT AT THE RANGE. GLAD you enjoyed the video ! -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
I am from BC, Canada Mark. I am just retired and have taken up archery as a hobby. I do not go to a range, I have had no formal instruction but have adopted the Vogtland shooting method. I shoot a homemade target at 10 and 15 meters now, and hope to push out to 18m at some point. I am really enjoying your archery videos and am very happy with my progress. One question, my groups are quite tight, but over the course of time I am shooting consistently to the right of the bullseye in the black. Any advice how to correct without compensating by aiming to the left? 🤔
Greetings StormingNorming and welcome to VOGTLAND OUTDOORS ! ANSWER: There are in fact MULTIPLE REASONS why an arrow might consistently land RIGHT LEFT. - ONE reason is related to the SPINE of the arrows; if you're landing right, the arrows MIGHT be TOO SOFT; - ANOTHER reason is that your ARROW REST is positioned TOO FAR LEFT ALREADY, which FORCES the arrows to the RIGHT after release :-O (who knew!) NEXT STEPS: Let's assume your arrows are CORRECTLY-MATCHED for your bow, and work first on your ARROW REST. ASSUMING it's TOO FAR LEFT, let's SCREW IT INTO the RISER (that is, to the RIGHT) 4 FULL TURNS. Then SHOOT no less than 12 arrows (say 6 arrows x 2 rounds) and CHECK THE GROUPING If you're LUCKY, we've OVER-COMPENSATED, and now you're too far LEFT ;-) Then all you have to do is screw the arrow rest BACK 2 full turns or so, and shoot 6 x 2 again. GENERAL RULE FOR ADJUSTING A FRONT SIGHT: "Adjust in the SAME DIRECTION of the ARROWS" - if the ARROWS are landing RIGHT, then move the front sight RIGHT. BUT GENERAL RULE FOR ADJUSTING AN ARROW REST: " Adjust in the OPPOSITE DIRECTION of the ARROWS" - if the arrows are landing RIGHT, then move the arrow rest LEFT - if the arrows are landing LEFT, then move the arrow rest RIGHT GIVE THIS A TRY FIRST, and come back with results! ALSO, TELL me the following: - DRAW WEIGHT of your bow - LENGTH, SPINE and ARROWTIP WEIGHT (in "grains") of the arrows you're shooting Cheers, - Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Thank you so much for the detailed tips Mark! So much appreciated. BTW, I’ve had a buddy out a couple times that had never shot a bow in his life. Starting out he has only ever known is the Vogtland Method. He’s loving it and he’s shooting really well! Take care and thanks again!
Me again, I hope to get out today or tomorrow and will get back (thank you for your interest) with progress. The details on what I’m shooting.. 40# Samick Sage, 31” Sharly carbon arrows, spine 500, 100 grain field tips. I’m shooting off the shelf, so I may need to adjust thickness of the felt on the side of the sight window to bring the arrows left. The arrows seem to be flying true, no nock left or right when they hit the target.
Hi again StormingNorming ! Good to hear from you again :-O COMMENTS: 1. I too shoot OFF-the-SHELF on all but 3 of my bows; in fact I PREFER it - the SIMPLER the BETTER ! 2. 40# DrawWeight and 500 spine? HMMM... I think (pure OPINION HERE!) that the long-held believe that this STIFF of a spine is necessary is in fact INACCURATE - it's TOO STIFF. Will it WORK? Sure. Will a SOFTER spine FEEL BETTER? Wait til you try a 600 spine with a 100gr fieldpoint - you'll NOTICE how SMOOOOOOOOOOTH the arrow will feel launching off your rest - all because you gave your arrow the "give" it needs to bend around the riser, absorbing all the "shock" normally felt in your hand, then smoooothly SPRING forward into the air, actually wiggling as it goes as it straightens out and lands *SMACK* into the target. LOOK for 600 spine arrows. You'll be pleased. HERE is what MARK shoots at EVERYTHING for the past 8 years (since I found them): www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MTLOT7X/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Cheers, -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
My question is what do you change if you like to cantor the bow. It’s more comfortable for me at longer distances but I can’t quite figure out what I need to do to stringwalk with a cantor
Greetings Ed (did I guess correctly?) ! SHORT ANSWSER: IF when you look down the bowstring, over the top of the arrow and you CAN'T see the tip... it's too short. I've never seen this actually happen, so I think you're good ! ;-) _Mark
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS thanks for quick response. That makes sense. I Broke out my 45 pound recurve after eight years and got out to 40 yards and less than 20 shots with your method. Not the best groups but I’ve never practiced beyond 35 yards historically.
Greetings again Ed ! "I Broke out my 45 pound recurve bow after eight years" ??? MUSIC TO MY EARS !!!!!!!!! IF it's been YEARS since you HELD THE DRAW on a 45# BOW, then you already HAVE an explanation for why your grouping was less-than-stellar. What I'M concerned about is the RANGE - were the HEIGHT on most of your 20 shots in the right RANGE? Once you start shooting say 50 arrows a day for about 2 weeks your back muscles will respond quickly, wake up and you'll find yourself being able to RELEASE MORE SMOOTHLY because your muscles won't fatigue so quickly and that's what might be making you "jumpy" after 10+ shots... IF YOU'RE UNSURE OF YOUR 2 "VOGTLAND STRINGWALKING" NUMBERS, TRY THESE: 1. a 20m INITIAL gap of 3 FINGERS; and 2. a 10m INTERVAL gap of 1/2 FINGERS USING THESE 2 GAPS, YOU'LL TRY THE FOLLOWING GAPS FOR COMMON RANGES: - 10m: 3 + 1/2 = 3 1/2 fingers - 20m: 3 + 0 = 3 fingers - 30m: 3 - 1/2 = 2 1/2 fingers - 40m: 3 - 1/2 - 1/2 = 2 fingers - 50m: 3 - 1/2 - 1/2 - 1/2 = 1 1/2 fingers -60m: 3 - 1/2 - 1/2 - 1/2 - 1/2 = 1 fingers -70m: 3 - 1/2 - 1/2 - 1/2 - 1/2 - 1/2 = 1/2 fingers - 80m: 3 - 1/2 - 1/2 - 1/2 - 1/2 - 1/2 - 1/2 = 0 fingers -90m: 1 fingers OVER THE ARROW -100m: 2 fingers OVER THE ARROW That's a pretty AMAZING RANGE and a pretty EASY-to-REMEMBER System for Calculating Gaps ! Give it a try; DON'T get bent-out-of-shape if - on any given WINDY day - you find yourself NOT QUITE HITTING BULLSEYES EVERY TIME at 40m with a gap of EXACTLY 2 FINGERS. It might be 2 fingers + or - a couple of wraps on your bowstring's servings. This is NO different than any other OLYMPIC or COMPOUND archer having to "DIAL-IN" his own mechanical sights for slight ELEVATION and WINDAGE changes EACH TIME THEY SHOOT. :-) GIVE IT A TRY... THEN go pick up ANOTHER 45# bow and use the SAME 2 StringWalking numbers - IT WILL WORK and it's pretty COOL ! THEN go try shooting with DIFFERENT GLOVES & TABS, because NONE of THAT will matter either - as long as you can SEE YOUR FINGERS AGAINST THE BOWSTRING :-O Cheers, -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Marc eres mi ídolo, creo que ya te lo he dicho alguna vez te explicas muy bien o rebien, yo lo entendi en cinco minutos, eres la reostia. hay de ti si rompes algun jarron tu mujer te sacude ja ja ja ja un abrazo majo .................................................................................... Marc, you're my idol, I think I've already told you once, you explain yourself very well or very well, I understood it in five minutes, you're the real deal. woe to you if you break a vase your wife shakes you ha ha ha ha a nice hug
Greetings Josep ! YOU KNEW ! FEAR of my WIFE was PRECISELY the reason I waited until she WENT SHOPPING before I made this video :-O ! ;-) WISH I was KIDDING... but I'm NOT ! GLAD to hear you continue to see value in my videos ! MAKE SURE YOU WATCH THIS NEW ONE: th-cam.com/video/9zuZ7c0KnAQ/w-d-xo.html Cheers, -Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Greetings Ashpollen and welcome to VOGTLAND OUTDOORS ! Hmmm... "custard in focus"? I guess that's a cunning inside joke that only YOU get. what you & I DO agree upon is that recording a video which accurately depicts the Sight Picture when Stringwalk IS difficult - I'm sure YOU must have done this far more successfully than me - that's why you felt qualified to mock my own attempts - right? WHAT? SURPRISE ! I just visited YOUR channel: - ZERO videos - ZERO subscribers Yet you feel qualified to mock the efforts of others at helping fellow archers? Hmmm... I guess that makes YOU ... a PRICK ! ;-) All kidding aside, even I was unhappy with my 1ST attempt at getting this on film, so this summer I tried again: th-cam.com/video/LtGrXt_rJBI/w-d-xo.html Check this summer 2023 video out, and see if you still feel like criticizing me when you've done absolutely positively NOTHING of your own. Cheerio, -Mark | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
UREKA!!! I’ve found gold here!! THIS is what I’ve been needing. Thank you a thousand times.😁😭😁
You are so welcome!
THANK YOU!!! To sum up my traditional archery education so far its like the lyrics in that song "I ain't as good as I'm gonna get
But I'm better than I used to be" Tim McGraw. Lol getting to the point no pun intended. In 2019 I started learning how to use a recurve bow and I'm learning something new every time I go to the range. To clerify one thing I use a left handed bow and that comes with its unique challenges however this video shown me something I have been doing wrong and just maybe get me to bulls eye. I was putting the bow string right up next to my nose when I get to my anchor point. Now I know I need to adjust my sight picture where my eye needs to look around the other side of the bow string. Thanks for this visual demonstration!
Hi Cody !
Hmmm... you're shooting LEFT-handed, so when my shooting method says "Step 3: Look down the LEFT EDGE of the bowstring"... YOU change that to "Step 3 Look down the RIGHT EDGE of the bowstring" !
After that all the rest of is the same - good luck !
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Brilliant video ! I'm VERY new to the sport but fairly experienced with firearms but have been lost on this particular subject. Absolutely nailed it
I've taken up archery again since Christmas 2022. Forgot how much I love it!. I've tried other methods, not to keen to be honest. This method is genius, Aiming the tip at your target makes all the sense. Hitting the bullseye after an 18year gap is awesome. Thank you for the great videos. 👍
Greetings Dave and welcome to VOGTLAND OUTDOORS !!!
Your post was MUSIC TO MY EARS - I LIVE FOR THIS KIND OF FEEDBACK !!!
BACK after an 18 YEARS HIATUS - and HITTING BULLSEYES with a SUPERIOR Shooting METHOD ???
LOVE THIS !!!
WATCH THESE VIDEOS:
th-cam.com/video/MGDvz4WG8TU/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/aucX8j7vLY8/w-d-xo.html
Very kind regards,
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
I'm 63 years old. When I was younger (16 to 25) I was very much into archery, and actually quite accurate. But then life got in the way! In the last few months I've been getting back into it, at a friend's urging. Ive' watched a ton of videos on technique and haven't had much success with any method. THIS is the best method for ME! I'm using three different bows. Samick Sage 30#, 1967 Ben Pearson Golden Sovereign 31#, and a 2021 Bodnick Slick stick 35#.
Excited to say that this method works FOR ME with all three. As you said, it's like sighting a rifle! Many videos say string walking is best done with a tab and counting stitches. I prefer the feel and fit of a glove. So hadn't had much luck.
All that to say THANKS for sharing your method and logic. I'm now thrilled at getting back into the sport! And a new channel to subscribe to!!!😁
BTW... fellow Illinoisian here... Edwardsville, about a mile from SIUE!
Great visualization!
Thanks Mark!
I have been trying the Vogtland Method since 2020 and it helps a lot.
Anchoring under the chin works much better than anchoring on the cheek and nose....much more natural and definitely more comfortable!
The issue with barebow techniques would be that there are so many to choose from and since it is a relatively "new" archery discipline, I always get some recommendations and whatnots from those who have been shooting much longer than me . What troubles me is all of them never actually completely try to understand the fundamentals of barebow anchoring, sighting, stringwalking, facewalking, distance adjustment based on arrows flight patters and all others mumbo-jumbos involved....they take it for granted - as though it is like recurve nor compound shooting.
At one point some even suggested me to put on recurve sight and try making the arrow grouping more consistent - which I definitely would not do - because I am shooting BAREBOW! R.O.T.F.L!!!
Some coach level shooters (who never had the experience in real barebow discipline!) even told me that their friends who shoot barebows seems to be anchoring be on the cheek all the time and the arrows MUST bet at the eye level all the time, aimed at the target desired.
This actually require facewalking calculations and for me it would totally not work especially at above 30m distance because who on earth wold do "3'upper" draw and sight the target on the eye level to meet the facewalking calculation! It's gonna look too weird and I know I am not going to able to shoot the arrows at all in the end! (R.O.T.F.L. again)
Anything beyond 30m, I will have to do off-set aiming while maintaining the other steps of Vogtland Method and while it is not a perfect 10-10-10 like a seasoned compound shooter can easily achieve, it is a different level of satisfaction for not relying on equipment but understanding the techniques and calculation based on our own experience. That's the beauty of shooting a barebow.
Well, for me at least!
At times, I would just do 3-under full draw, anchoring on the chin, aim on the left side of the string and look on the arrow point as the Vogtland Method, then I would do off-set aiming to adjust to the distance of the target instead of stringwalking everytime. I find it is much faster (almost like instinct aiming like the traditional bow discipline) though it may not be a good grouping for anything beyond 20m for me - for now.
Anyways - Terima Kasih (thank you so much) Mark, from Malaysia!
Greetings Kyril from Malaysia !!!
I READ YOUR COMMENTS WITH GREAT INTEREST - THANK YOU FOR SHARINNG YOUR INSIGHTS !!
It seems you & I have many things in common:
======================================
1. You & I BOTH are convinced that BAREBOW ARCHERY can be CERTAINLY be as accurate as OLYMPIC RECURVE ARCHERY, and NEARLY as accurate as COMPOUND BOW ARCHERY :-)
2. You & I BOTH have had our FILL of NON-BAREBOW archers trying to tell us BAREBOW archers "how to shoot" :-| ...
3. You & I BOTH are convinced that there ARE barebow shooting methods which MAKE SENSE; for me (and an increasing number of archers world wide) this is what I have termed The VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD, which is essentially 2 ALREADY-COMMON, ALREADY-CREDIBLE shooting methods:
- Olympic Archery; and
- StringWalking
It seems the only topic on which you & I DIFFER is regarding this:
- YOU continue to think of your DRAW as being EITHER "split finger" or "3 under";
- MARK has STOPPED thinking of his DRAW in terms of how-many-fingers-are-over-or-under-the-arrow; INSTEAD Mark simply sees "3 fingers" and a "gap", and IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MANY FINGERS ARE ABOVE OR BELOW THE ARROW - it really DOESN'T :-O :-O :-O !!!
HOLY SHIT - CAN THIS BE TRUE ???
Yes, my new friend Kyril from Malaysia - IT DOESN"T MATTER WHERE YOUR FINGERS ARE; instead ALL that DOES matter is the GAP between the top of your INDEX FINGER and the ARROW's NOCK - that's it !
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN ?
BRACE YOURSELF FOR THIS ANSWER:
BY DRAWING with 3 fingers and NOT worrying about WHERE they are on the bowstring:
- You can create "POSITIVE" gaps when all your fingers are BELOW the nock; AND
- You can also create "NEGATIVE" gaps when some or all of your fingers are ABOVE THE NOCK :-O !!!
WHAT the F@#$%^&* ?????
YES - YOU CAN "STRINGWALK" all the way from 5 fingers BELOW the arrow nock to 3 and even 4 fingers ABOVE the arrow nock !!!
NOW FOR REALITY:
- StringWalking with a 4 finger gap BELOW the arrow nock will get you a distance of 5m, so there's really NO NEED to have MORE than a 4-finger-below-the-nock gap, because who's going to EVER shoot at something CLOSER than 5m ???
(no one !)
- StringWalking with a 4 finger gap ABOVE the arrow nock FEELS WEIRD, but it WILL give you distances of well over 120m !!
IF YOU STOP THINKING ABOUT 3-fingers-BELOW-the-nock as somehow being DIFFERENT than 1-finger-above-2-fingers-below-the-nock, you'll start to realize that it's all still just "3-fingers-on-the-BOWSTRING" and that's ALL that matters !
:-O
So WHAT can you DO with this epiphany ??
ANSWER: You can SHOOT using StringWalking and 3-fingers-on-the-bowstring at ALL of the following distances, all using the SAME StringWalking, Drawing, Aiming and Releasing technique:
FOR a 45# BOW (recurve, longbow, asian bow - it DOESN'T MATTER):
DISTANCE GAP
=========================================
5m 4 fingers BELOW the nock
10m 3 1/2 fingers BELOW the nock
20m 3 fingers BELOW the nock
30m 2 1/2 fingers BELOW the nock
40m 2 fingers BELOW the nock
50m 1 1/2 fingers BELOW the nock
60m 1 fingers BELOW the nock
70m 1/2 fingers BELOW the nock
80m 0 fingers BELOW the nock
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
90m 1 fingers ABOVE the nock
100m 2 fingers ABOVE the nock
110m 3 fingers ABOVE the nock
120m 4 fingers ABOVE the nock
SAME 3-finger draw
SAME under-the-chin anchor
SAME rear sight (the left edge of the bowstring
SAME front sight (the arrow tip itself)
SAME target (the dead center of the bullseye of your target)
SAME release method (Mark's "small-motion" release)
DIFFERENT "GAPS" between the index finger and the nock - THAT'S IT !!!
IMAGINE a shooting method where EVERYTHING STAYS THE SAME EXCEPT FOR THE GAP (which translates into ELEVATION into RANGE) - THAT's my VOGTLAND SHOOTING METHOD :-)
I think you just gave me my idea for the NEXT VIDEO - MANY THANKS !
Kind regards,
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS
Thanks Mark!!
I really appreciate this - thank you so much!!! There's a lot to be explored indeed.
Kyril !
I LOVE it when people tell me WHERE they're from - then I can go look it up on Google Earth !
ME?
HOME: 211 Jessica Court, North Aurora IL 60542 USA
NEAREST ARCHERY RANGE:
Blackwell Forest Preserve Archery Range, Warrenville, IL USA
OTHER RANGES I SHOOT AT REGULARLY:
Kishwaukee Archery Club, Sycamore, IL USA
Hope to hear from you where (at least what town or archery range in Malaysia) YOU shoot at !
Cheerio,
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Great view. Thanks. Though when I shoot blindfolded this is great for my muscle memory.
GLAD you enjoyed this (older) video Professor Rags!
-Mark
I watched this a while ago and thought it was good.
Watching it again and I'm picking up more information yet again :)
Greetings J&Y !
Agreed - when seeing this information (and the "epiphanies" being described) for the FIRST TIME, there IS a LOT of information to absorb !
I've been monitoring comments all winter, composing a list of "Review Topics" to create ADDITIONAL videos on, and simply WAITING for the @#$%^ WEATHER TO GET BETTER, so I can MAKE these videos !
Stay tuned!
ARE there any QUESTIONS youv'e got right NOW ??
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS out of interest...
What's your tiller and nock height?
I'm experimenting with mine.
Greetings J&Y!
ANSWERS…
1. RE TILLER: I never check. It doesn’t matter (much) because you REALLY end up “tuning” your bow to your arrows (whose behavior is a function of their Spine, Length and Arrowhead Mass) and your gaps (distance between the arrow nock & your index or “drawing” finger) by ADJUSTING YOUR NOCKING POINT (POSITION) :-O
2. RE NOCKING POINT: This IS important, and here’s a truth that few “StringWalkers” are aware of: YOUR NOCKING POINT MUST CHANGE (SLIGHTLY) AS YOUR GAPS CHANGE :-O !!!
So HOW DOES ONE CHANGE THEIR BOW’S NOCKING POINT “EASILY” WHEN THE VERY NATURE OF NOCKING POINTS IS THAT THEY DON’T MOVE EASILY??
:-O
ANSWER: IT DEPENDS… on HOW MANY SHOTS YOU’RE MAKING AT A GIVEN GAP ;-)
IF you’re ONLY TAKING ONE shot…LEAVE the Nocking Point where it is - typically this is 1 to 2 “ arrow widths” ABOVE perpendicular.
IF you’re shooting a LOT of arrows (eg 60+ arrows @ 18m or 25m or 50m in a tournament), then DO adjust the Nocking Point following this simple rule: FOLLOW THE ARROW TAIL:
- IF it jumps UP at release, THEN shift the Nocking Point UP
- IF it jumps DOWN at release, shift the Nocking Point DOWN
ADVICE: I’ve designed & use a MOVEABLE NOCKING POINT from 3 commonly-obtained “speed buttons” used to tune the bowstrings on COMPOUND BOWS :-O
Go watch that video - it’ll change your shooting !
cheers, Mark Vogt / VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Nice brilliant
Thank you!
You're welcome!
Awesome video
Greetings Horizon - glad you found it useful !
Cheers,
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
From what i've gathered so far.
Your string alignment gets pushed further to the right as you shoot further distance to compensate for the breakdown in arrow spine, as opposed to keeping the same alignment and adjust plunger tension.
Imho the real pro of your method is having multiple anchor points if you mix it with frangilli's heretic method.
Hook the thumb behind the sternocleidomastoid muscle of the neck, this basically acts as a drawstop. String on the chin & tip of the nose that sets the alignment.
Will give this a shot in the coming weeks to see what happens. Should be interesting to try this now that i'm starting on making an indoor setup based around 23's.
Bow is a gillo GT27 with long limbs (72" bow) so i can get to 3 anchor points with this method. On short hunting style bows like yours tip of the nose won't happen though.
Greetings Ronny and welcome to VOGTLAND OUTDOORS !
Please know the Archery "target audience" of this channel are predominantly new archers, or experienced archers new to BareBow shooting methods; as such we endeavor to try & keep complexity to a minimum, instead attempting to explain complex concepts in terms of simpler terms...
COMMENTS to your comments:
You: "Your string alignment gets pushed further to the right as you shoot further distances..."
Me: If you observed this, it is unintentional. All all distances I seek to maintain a CONSTANT anchor point a CONSTANT sight picture of arrowtip-dead-on-bullseye. The philosophy here is SIMPLICITY of shooting method; it's 5 STEPS. PERIOD. Nothing in it changes whether shooting at 5m or 105m, except for the actual size of the "gap" (which controls the elevation hence the distance) between the nocking point of the arrow and the drawing point of the index finger.
You: "to compensate for the breakdown in arrow spine, as opposed to keeping the same alignment and adjust plunger tension"
Me: I do not see how the arrow spine "breaks down" for different distances. Nothing happens to the "spine" (actually a combination of the Stiffness-per-Length, Arrow Length and Arrowtip Mass) whether shooting at 10m or 100m, because at each distance the arrow is still being released at FULL DRAW, so the Initial "THRUST" placed on the arrow is the SAME at all distances, meaning its BEHAVIOR will equally be the same at all distances. Also, I have NO plunger on ANY of my bows, again for the Primary Purpose of this channel and of my shooting method: SIMPLICITY.
You: mention famed Italian archer Frangilli's "Heretic Method";
Me: while I APPLAUD Frangill's DARING in being a MAVERICK and NOT "towing the party line" in regards to method, I DON'T use his method, again for the same reason as before: SIMPLICITY. Instead I do nothing more but FIRMLY PRESS the second digit of my index finger UNDER my chin and AGAINST the lower-right edge of my chin - that's ALL that's required :-O
If you watch some of my more recent videos describing the IMPORTANCE of this FIRMLY-PRESSING-the-SECOND-DIGIT-AGAINST-THE-LOW-EDGE-OF-THE-CHIN, you'll see how effective this can be.
You: "Will give this a shot in the coming weeks to see what happens."
Me: I'M ECSTATIC - THRILLED IN FACT - PLEASE DO GIVE this shooting method a try !
I would ask this: DO NOT UTILIZE DIFFERENT ANCHOR POINTS - SIMPLE USE THE ONE UNDER-THE-CHIN !
WHY would I ask this?
SIMPLE: SIMPLICITY ;-), AND I PROMISE that you will see that by anchoring ONLY under your chin you gain what I term "MAD ELEVATION", hence equally-MAD DISTANCE :-O
I'm GUESSING that if you've got a GT27 and total BowLength of 72", then you likely are shooting around 38# ?
IF you anchor ONLY under your chin I can PROMISE these things:
- at SHORT distances (eg 10m) you will have a LARGE gap of about "3 fingers" this may feel weird at first, but you'll get over it ;-)
- at MEDIUM distances (eg 20m 25m, 30m) you will have a COMFORTABLE gap of around "2 fingers" and this will feel perfectly comfortable immediately, and by simply anchoring your 2nd finger bone FIRMLY against the lower edge of your chin, you'll be PLEASED with the near-zero left-right error introduced;
- at LONGER distances (eg 40m, 50m) you will have a VERY COMFORTABLE gap of around "1 fingers", and using the SAME shooting method as before, you'll be PLEASED with your groupings at 40m, and "SATISFIED" with your groupings at 50m
PLEASE KNOW THIS:
Since 2020 now I've been STRUGGLING with TARGET PANIC for the first time ever in my 60 years on this planet. It SUCKS, because it arrived at the SAME time that I BEGAN this channel, so that I had to make a difficult decision:
DO I DARE to begin this channel and promote my shooting IN SPITE OF many of my groupings showing less-than-desirable grouping, NOT because the METHOD is inferior (it's not!) but because of Target Panic - will viewers UNDERSTAND what's going on and RESPECT me for TRYING; OR
DO I instead tuck-tail and GIVE UP on this channel for fear of ridicule of some of my grouping my ignorant (and mean-spirited) viewers?
I chose the FORMER (moving ahead with the channel), and have learned that the vast vast vast majority of viewers DO indeed understand why MY groupings are often less-than-ideal; I've also learned that many RESPECT me for still TRYING with this channel, and they VALUE this shooting method based on its (obvious) MERITS, not by my proving it with my own groupings ;-)
THE ICING ON THE CAKE of me continuing this channel is that I get feedback from SKILLED, EXPERIENCED archers like YOURSELF, who are OPEN-MINDED about shooting methods, and actually DARE to give my shooting method a TRY.
WHO COULD ASK FOR MORE THAN THAT?
Please know I'm grateful for your interest & participation !
Cheers,
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS I can pretty much shoot a piece of electrical tape at 18m. The crawl is really deep though, 300 spine 150gr point eventually tuned. The nocking point was significantly higher. Out of sheer dumb luck the 4th anchor point is the nock itself touching your lips, though this is only at 18meters.
The string picture is where it gets VERY interesting.
Instead of aligning the string with the arrow, the string aligns dead centre on the riser. Giving you a string with 2 fine outlines of your riser (neon green with purple edges in my case). Giving you a quick check to see wheter everything is perfectly in line. 18 & 20 str work best for me. 16 str is too narrow.
So far so good, will keep playing around with this in the coming weeks to finetune everything.
I see an advantage in a supported crossbow/bow similar to this for use in tuning arrows to that bow. Most archery instruction is filled with errors and freehand tuning that makes no sense.
Well done 👍
Great point
Hi Mark just found this video now This is genius (Outstanding ) Hope you didn't get arrows in your sitting room wall while setting it up
Greetings Gerry !
IF you look around in that video you'll note that the one thing clearly MISSING is... my WIFE.
Yup - I had to wait until she went running some errands before I set up that rig in "her" parlor - otherwise I would have been promptly SLAIN by a BAYANGI woman from CAMEROON, and the BAYANGI people are the undisputed CREATORS of VOODOO (not kidding - look it up).
;-)
I need to RE-DO this video, as I think I got the point across (get it? "point" across? never mind), but there's room for improvement because I need to do this OUT AT THE RANGE.
GLAD you enjoyed the video !
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
I am from BC, Canada Mark. I am just retired and have taken up archery as a hobby. I do not go to a range, I have had no formal instruction but have adopted the Vogtland shooting method. I shoot a homemade target at 10 and 15 meters now, and hope to push out to 18m at some point. I am really enjoying your archery videos and am very happy with my progress. One question, my groups are quite tight, but over the course of time I am shooting consistently to the right of the bullseye in the black. Any advice how to correct without compensating by aiming to the left? 🤔
Greetings StormingNorming and welcome to VOGTLAND OUTDOORS !
ANSWER:
There are in fact MULTIPLE REASONS why an arrow might consistently land RIGHT LEFT.
- ONE reason is related to the SPINE of the arrows; if you're landing right, the arrows MIGHT be TOO SOFT;
- ANOTHER reason is that your ARROW REST is positioned TOO FAR LEFT ALREADY, which FORCES the arrows to the RIGHT after release :-O (who knew!)
NEXT STEPS:
Let's assume your arrows are CORRECTLY-MATCHED for your bow, and work first on your ARROW REST.
ASSUMING it's TOO FAR LEFT, let's SCREW IT INTO the RISER (that is, to the RIGHT) 4 FULL TURNS.
Then SHOOT no less than 12 arrows (say 6 arrows x 2 rounds) and CHECK THE GROUPING
If you're LUCKY, we've OVER-COMPENSATED, and now you're too far LEFT ;-)
Then all you have to do is screw the arrow rest BACK 2 full turns or so, and shoot 6 x 2 again.
GENERAL RULE FOR ADJUSTING A FRONT SIGHT: "Adjust in the SAME DIRECTION of the ARROWS"
- if the ARROWS are landing RIGHT, then move the front sight RIGHT.
BUT
GENERAL RULE FOR ADJUSTING AN ARROW REST: " Adjust in the OPPOSITE DIRECTION of the ARROWS"
- if the arrows are landing RIGHT, then move the arrow rest LEFT
- if the arrows are landing LEFT, then move the arrow rest RIGHT
GIVE THIS A TRY FIRST, and come back with results!
ALSO, TELL me the following:
- DRAW WEIGHT of your bow
- LENGTH, SPINE and ARROWTIP WEIGHT (in "grains") of the arrows you're shooting
Cheers,
- Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Thank you so much for the detailed tips Mark! So much appreciated. BTW, I’ve had a buddy out a couple times that had never shot a bow in his life. Starting out he has only ever known is the Vogtland Method. He’s loving it and he’s shooting really well! Take care and thanks again!
MUSIC TO MY EARS!
Me again, I hope to get out today or tomorrow and will get back (thank you for your interest) with progress. The details on what I’m shooting.. 40# Samick Sage, 31” Sharly carbon arrows, spine 500, 100 grain field tips. I’m shooting off the shelf, so I may need to adjust thickness of the felt on the side of the sight window to bring the arrows left. The arrows seem to be flying true, no nock left or right when they hit the target.
Hi again StormingNorming !
Good to hear from you again :-O
COMMENTS:
1. I too shoot OFF-the-SHELF on all but 3 of my bows; in fact I PREFER it - the SIMPLER the BETTER !
2. 40# DrawWeight and 500 spine? HMMM...
I think (pure OPINION HERE!) that the long-held believe that this STIFF of a spine is necessary is in fact INACCURATE - it's TOO STIFF.
Will it WORK? Sure.
Will a SOFTER spine FEEL BETTER? Wait til you try a 600 spine with a 100gr fieldpoint - you'll NOTICE how SMOOOOOOOOOOTH the arrow will feel launching off your rest - all because you gave your arrow the "give" it needs to bend around the riser, absorbing all the "shock" normally felt in your hand, then smoooothly SPRING forward into the air, actually wiggling as it goes as it straightens out and lands *SMACK* into the target.
LOOK for 600 spine arrows. You'll be pleased.
HERE is what MARK shoots at EVERYTHING for the past 8 years (since I found them):
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MTLOT7X/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Cheers,
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
My question is what do you change if you like to cantor the bow. It’s more comfortable for me at longer distances but I can’t quite figure out what I need to do to stringwalk with a cantor
What about arrow length? Have you found short or longer arrows make a visually better or worse difference?
Greetings Ed (did I guess correctly?) !
SHORT ANSWSER:
IF when you look down the bowstring, over the top of the arrow and you CAN'T see the tip... it's too short.
I've never seen this actually happen, so I think you're good !
;-)
_Mark
@@VOGTLANDOUTDOORS thanks for quick response. That makes sense. I Broke out my 45 pound recurve after eight years and got out to 40 yards and less than 20 shots with your method. Not the best groups but I’ve never practiced beyond 35 yards historically.
Greetings again Ed !
"I Broke out my 45 pound recurve bow after eight years" ???
MUSIC TO MY EARS !!!!!!!!!
IF it's been YEARS since you HELD THE DRAW on a 45# BOW, then you already HAVE an explanation for why your grouping was less-than-stellar.
What I'M concerned about is the RANGE - were the HEIGHT on most of your 20 shots in the right RANGE? Once you start shooting say 50 arrows a day for about 2 weeks your back muscles will respond quickly, wake up and you'll find yourself being able to RELEASE MORE SMOOTHLY because your muscles won't fatigue so quickly and that's what might be making you "jumpy" after 10+ shots...
IF YOU'RE UNSURE OF YOUR 2 "VOGTLAND STRINGWALKING" NUMBERS, TRY THESE:
1. a 20m INITIAL gap of 3 FINGERS; and
2. a 10m INTERVAL gap of 1/2 FINGERS
USING THESE 2 GAPS, YOU'LL TRY THE FOLLOWING GAPS FOR COMMON RANGES:
- 10m: 3 + 1/2 = 3 1/2 fingers
- 20m: 3 + 0 = 3 fingers
- 30m: 3 - 1/2 = 2 1/2 fingers
- 40m: 3 - 1/2 - 1/2 = 2 fingers
- 50m: 3 - 1/2 - 1/2 - 1/2 = 1 1/2 fingers
-60m: 3 - 1/2 - 1/2 - 1/2 - 1/2 = 1 fingers
-70m: 3 - 1/2 - 1/2 - 1/2 - 1/2 - 1/2 = 1/2 fingers
- 80m: 3 - 1/2 - 1/2 - 1/2 - 1/2 - 1/2 - 1/2 = 0 fingers
-90m: 1 fingers OVER THE ARROW
-100m: 2 fingers OVER THE ARROW
That's a pretty AMAZING RANGE and a pretty EASY-to-REMEMBER System for Calculating Gaps !
Give it a try; DON'T get bent-out-of-shape if - on any given WINDY day - you find yourself NOT QUITE HITTING BULLSEYES EVERY TIME at 40m with a gap of EXACTLY 2 FINGERS.
It might be 2 fingers + or - a couple of wraps on your bowstring's servings.
This is NO different than any other OLYMPIC or COMPOUND archer having to "DIAL-IN" his own mechanical sights for slight ELEVATION and WINDAGE changes EACH TIME THEY SHOOT.
:-)
GIVE IT A TRY...
THEN go pick up ANOTHER 45# bow and use the SAME 2 StringWalking numbers - IT WILL WORK and it's pretty COOL !
THEN go try shooting with DIFFERENT GLOVES & TABS, because NONE of THAT will matter either - as long as you can SEE YOUR FINGERS AGAINST THE BOWSTRING :-O
Cheers,
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Really helpful thx g
Vivo en REUS (TARRAGONA) CATALUÑA SPAIN
Entreno en CAMBRILS Costa Dorada (Tarragona) a 13 kilómetros
el campo no es publico vamos los socios
Marc eres mi ídolo, creo que ya te lo he dicho alguna vez te explicas muy bien o rebien, yo lo entendi en cinco minutos, eres la reostia.
hay de ti si rompes algun jarron tu mujer te sacude ja ja ja ja
un abrazo majo
....................................................................................
Marc, you're my idol, I think I've already told you once, you explain yourself very well or very well, I understood it in five minutes, you're the real deal.
woe to you if you break a vase your wife shakes you ha ha ha ha
a nice hug
Greetings Josep !
YOU KNEW !
FEAR of my WIFE was PRECISELY the reason I waited until she WENT SHOPPING before I made this video :-O !
;-)
WISH I was KIDDING... but I'm NOT !
GLAD to hear you continue to see value in my videos !
MAKE SURE YOU WATCH THIS NEW ONE:
th-cam.com/video/9zuZ7c0KnAQ/w-d-xo.html
Cheers,
-Mark Vogt | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS
Indian bow aiming tips
Hi "Text" and welcome to VOGTLAND OUTDOORS !
I'm not sure what you mean by "indian bow" but if you enjoyed the video - great !
-Mark
String in focus, arrow tip in focus, custard in focus..... BS!
Greetings Ashpollen and welcome to VOGTLAND OUTDOORS !
Hmmm... "custard in focus"?
I guess that's a cunning inside joke that only YOU get.
what you & I DO agree upon is that recording a video which accurately depicts the Sight Picture when Stringwalk IS difficult - I'm sure YOU must have done this far more successfully than me - that's why you felt qualified to mock my own attempts - right?
WHAT? SURPRISE !
I just visited YOUR channel:
- ZERO videos
- ZERO subscribers
Yet you feel qualified to mock the efforts of others at helping fellow archers?
Hmmm...
I guess that makes YOU ... a PRICK !
;-)
All kidding aside, even I was unhappy with my 1ST attempt at getting this on film, so this summer I tried again:
th-cam.com/video/LtGrXt_rJBI/w-d-xo.html
Check this summer 2023 video out, and see if you still feel like criticizing me when you've done absolutely positively NOTHING of your own.
Cheerio,
-Mark | VOGTLAND OUTDOORS