Thanks to all of your support and feedback, this is now a series! Episode #2 is out and we have more lined up, with some awesome special guests. AND... whether you're a pro or amateur screenwriter, you can be part of it! If you'd like to be involved, head over to: www.nathangrahamdavis.com/spotthepro
ABSOLUTELY do this again. It was fun to watch. Next time, I have one suggestion. Read all eight scripts in no particular order. Comment on each script after it is read, but vote which are which only after all of them have been read. That would help alleviate the "luck of the draw"; where you know one of the two presented scripts has to be a pro script. I'd bet by having to divide eight scripts into two groups of four would improve the chances for the amateur scripts to prevail.
I think your suggestion is a great one and we talked about doing it. My concern was it might be too boring to do eight straight with no reveals. But there’s a lot of upside to that method, for sure.
I'm 16 years old and currently working on a short film script (as well as having many ideas for full length films) so seeing such a quality and captivating page from someone very close in age to me is a really good feeling.
This was a great exercise. Please do more. Something valuable I learned recently that changed the way I read/write scipts and something that helps me tell the difference between amateur and pro writer is this: Scene description is not a scene description. Amateur screenwriters, including me, describe what's going on in thee scene, while pros dramatize the hack out of it. John stands up and leaves the room vs John leaps to his feet and rushes out the room. First sentence gives us nothing while the second gives us 1) The state of mind John is in. 2) The pacing of the scene. 3) Visual medium that's clear. Thought I should share this since this helped me a lot and currently rewriting all of my scene "descriptions" using this method.
Great idea! It was fun to play along! One thing I thought about afterwards was how these are probably the TOP TIER Amateur scripts (hand picked by the moderator) versus professional quality scripts that HAVEN'T been produced. So you made this as tough on yourself as possible. And each of you still hit 3 out of 4!
Yes, Joe definitely selected top tier amateur scripts and that is definitely worth noting. When I put out the call, I suggested that only experienced writers apply, and then Joe selected only 4 from 100 of those. So they were high quality, for sure.
Great vid guys. This is the way to deep dive writing in an interesting way. IMO. Keep doing stuff like this and you’ll have the biggest screenwriting channel. 🤙🏾
I loved this. On a side-note: Screenwriters, you can't bring a patient who flat-lined back to life with a defibrillator. The purpose of a defib is to detect irregular heart rhythms and shock them back to normal rhythms, not to shock a heart back to life once it has flat-lined.
Got all 4, although do agree the writing was very good by each 'amateur' but I could just tell within the first few lines when the comparison was shown. Just shows how important the whole picture is... voice, vocabulary, pace, structure! I agree with others that you should read all 8, discuss each one after and then see after!
Finally managed to sit down and watch this. Love this concept so much, definitely need to see more! Also left me feeling inspired for my own projects, which is always a good thing. Congratulations on another great video!
I'm a script reader and I've read Ria's work before. She is extremely talented and I'm sure she'll get her break very soon. I liked this format. It would be interesting to see if you could develop it more. You guys did a great job. I don't think there's anything wrong with constructive criticism however. We absolutely need it to improve what we do and learn how to traverse a difficult industry.
I'm looking forward to reading her pages! Also, totally agree that criticism is necessary. I'd prefer not to do that publicly unless the writers specifically said they were open to that, though. The stakes are also a little higher for pro writers, since that criticism could potentially impact their reputations.
@@NGDwrites I get your point about a public forum although if you submit your work for such an event, you know it's public. I think this goes to the heart of how we talk about work in a constructive but useful way. For example, if I were to hear that XXX could be improved because of YYY, it would benefit me as much if not more than AAA was brilliant. Additionally everyone listening and watching who is looking to hone their craft and understand what doesn't work and why would also benefit. I think it's possible to do all of this without resorting to any sort of shaming or adverse consequences and, is indeed, necessary. Regarding the question of the professional writers, I guess it depends whether you ask them for their permission to be involved in this way as well. You touched on what constitutes professional compared to amateur and discussed the nature of high quality writing regardless. Defining what is 'professional' might be your greatest difficulty down the line maybe! But I still posit that every writer has to know that their work can only be improved, whatever their 'status' and a bit of 'free' quality feedback is great for everyone. It doesn't mean the writer in question is poor or not deserving of their credits/reputation. The opposite is just coddling which helps no one. The art, completely, is how to give genuine, honest criticism in a constructive way. Maybe that's not what this project is about but I think, at it's heart, you're trying to show people what is needed to get a prospective client past the first page, the first 20 pages, to the end of the script, to a contract etc etc? So learning how to improve what we all do is the ultimate objective and requires some guts and the support that comes from an honest appraisal of even the best work. By the way, along with Ria, there was some really excellent writing on show. My main constructive point would have been that, with such intensely rich opening 'statements', one sometimes lost the thread of who was who, doing what and why! On page one, in particular, you don't want to get lost (This might be because the pages were read out and scrolled on the page - can you put the full page up in future - even the visuals of the page are a useful clue as I'm sure you know!). Many thanks for your response and all the best, Laura
This was so fun to watch! Interesting idea and great video. It might be fun to also venture a guess of the story/logline but one page is probably too short for that. Please do more!
This was great! A really informative way to learn and see different approaches to first pages. would love some more, and thanks Graham, as always, for sharing your thoughts and time with the community. 😊
This was great and I’m glad you’re doing more, but I would say that where it somewhat fails to test the premise is that the amateur scripts were essentially pre-screened to weed out the (likely high) percentage of them that wouldn’t have provided much of a challenge. To really test this, I think you’d have to read something like 100 first pages with an unknown number of professional writers in the mix and attempt to identify them to see how many you misidentify.
Oh, you're definitely right. When we put out the call, we specifically said we were looking for writers who might be able to stack up against the pros. And then Joe read through 100 pages and selected four of the very best. So those were tip top pages. As I said in the video, it wasn't a perfectly scientific test. But we all feel this way is a lot more interesting and fun. If we'd selected four random pages from random amateur writers, the task would have been pretty easy. And just as importantly -- perhaps moreso -- none of those writers would have wound up with the boost or feedback they've received since this video launched. For that reason, we're going to continue on with top tier amateur pages, because we actually have some really cool guests coming on (managers, producers, etc) and it'd be great to create an actual opportunity for someone. And plus... it's fun!
Great job friends 👍🏻 Really appreciate your efforts to empathize with all kinds of writers. And the greatest idea I got from this video is, if you want your story on the screen, a good story and a strong "voice" will do the job. Thanks a lot.
I thought this was great! Great idea. The point about the 1st page clearly indicating you're in the hands of a competent writer--amateur or pro--is so important for those of us still trying to break through. I'm in a similar position as NGD. Got some modest success with my first 2 scripts: agent, manager, script sent out wide to studios/prodcos, round of mertings, and several options & eventual sale of the 2nd script (unproduced) to a good size indie company for guild minimums. Now, many years later, I wanna nuther bite at the apple. I'm working on a low-budget horror script with what I think is a good hook, so it'll be interesting to see if the industry is still as open to reads off cold query letters as I found it to be with those first 2 scripts. I'll be hitting up the few old contacts I've got from the first go-around, but if they're not interested, I'll have to fall back on the cold query campaign that got the ball rolling the first time. I'm just not sure how viable an option that remains in 2024. Anyway, this video has been very inspirational in helping me stay excited about all of it. Thanks!
That's great that you're back at it! Querying is the hardest it's ever been, in my experience. I struggled getting responses to queries last year, when I was trying to find a new manager, and I have a movie coming out! Some producers and reps still respond to them on occasion, but there are more people doing this than ever, which means there are more people querying than ever, and there's just a ton of noise out there. I do recommend that you try querying, but you're also going to want to put the time into networking as referrals by far the best way to get read. It's also not a bad idea to try out the Black List and Nicholl. Both are long shots, but some people in the industry do pay attention to the scripts that do well there. Just keep at it and keep turning over every stone you can.
Interesting & informative exercise- I’m 2 for 2 so far - looking forward to going through the remainder especially as I’m presently working on a page one first rewrite myself 👏😋
this video was awesome - I came from reddit and was only expecting to watch a few minutes, but ended up watching the whole thing. Thanks for doing this and looking forward to seeing more!
Informative and fun video. I think you all did a great job. I just want to add that even by the end of the fairly long video what struck me the most was how well A-2 stayed with me. I really want to see that movie, alor at least read the whole script.
Had to come back to leave a comment cuz I failed to when this first came out. Almost missed the 2nd one due to 2 glaring issues that bumped me out of the story, but I stuck with it cuz the writing drew me in. Went 4 for 4 on this thanks to some of your input. Would have been 3/4 otherwise.
Im currently writing my first screenplay, so this video is not only fun, but definitely a great help for when I am finished with my first draft and start on my first rewriting journey. 2 pairs in, I managed to guess both so far. First one I guessed because the amateur did not follow a rule that I read in one of the articles Ive read about screenwriting. Im just gonna go ahead and take this as a sign that Professor Google is at least semi helpful. However, it is really interesting how so far the professionals focussed on painting a picture of both the scene and the characters inner workings in a way that the amateurs could not replicate.
@serryy - Just as general advice for a beginner, try not to take "rules" about format too seriously. I get why someone might have said that, because if you overdo it with that kind of thing, it's going to make for an obnoxious read, but bold font is a tool in the toolbox and there could certainly be an occasion that calls for using it. Anyway -- happy writing!
A lot of these were great - you picked very well, they are all good writers. To me, I got most of them - there was a typo on the pro page in the first one which threw me, so I picked wrong. But the others, I knew when I was reading pro work
Glad you enjoyed 'em! And yeah, although no writer *wants* to have typos in their work, unlike novelists, we don't typically have copyeditors. They do slip through and at the end of the day, they have zero bearing on the story, so I never really judge a script or a writer based on them.
@@NGDwrites same! I'm a screenwriter too, the second I send it off, that's the moment I realise there's a typo! It just rare to see a typo on a first page - I expect a couple throughout a script, its just usually that first page is so picked over its rarely got a thing wrong with it
I usually avoid long TH-cam videos, but this one hooked me-especially the Joe's hilarious attempt to pronounce 'defibrillator.' Got a good laugh out of that. Also with Twitter banned here, how can I send you my opening pages for your next video?
Doctors and nurses and medical professionals in general hate scenes where a defibrillator is used on someone whose heart has stopped. "You never shock a flatline." The entire purpose of a defibrillator is to stop the heart when it's gone into a dangerous rhythm, in the hope that it will restart in a good rhythm. But if it has already stopped (flatline) then the defibrillator does nothing. In that situation it's time for CPR.
For a more difficult challenge, you could read each script, give it the label "pro" or "amateur". Then once done: show again shortly the page and with a cool visual effect- wooosh PRO! or AMATEUR! Then short images of you with a smile if you guessed, or with a sad pout if you got wrong. I think you have a cool concept for a regular show here, and can challenge different guests among your pro-screenwriter friends.
Group 3 was easy. An exhausted guy bent down to pick up a newspaper on the platform? And he didn’t simply throw it into the trash but crumpled it first into a ball? That was purely exposition to give us the date and tell us he’s a good guy. I knew right then that it wasn’t by a pro. But by a 17? That’s impressive. That person is going places.
I find the comment about a very strong voice making a bad story (or script) readable to be very interesting. does it do the writer any good to write something that can’t be filmed for instance? it feels like you could potentially be setting the director up for failure. “Why doesn’t this look as good as it reads”? Very informational conversation. Thanks for doing this.
Oh, definitely. If it can't be filmed and won't work onscreen, at the end of the day, it's a waste of time for all involved. The conversation was more just about how *powerful* a great voice can be. Ideally, you are first and foremost writing a great movie. The voiciness of the writing is just the cherry on top to make it even more irresistible.
Whenever I see ellipsis, especially when it's every other line I immediately think amateur, which; if you've read the Shogun pilot you'd know how wrong I am.
Sometimes I hate them and sometimes writers use them in a way that just adds to the atmosphere. Like a lot of things with writing, it's all in the execution!
I could tell the first one just by listening to the reader's tone. He telegraphed that from a mile away. He read the pro's page full of pep and the second one with a dull monotone. Not to mention, he described it prior to reading it by stating how he finds pros to be "cinematic". Having said that, the second one had more ellipsis than an introspective's internal monologue. The second one was a given, but listener #2 ruined reader's and listener #1's plan by being honest lmao 🤣
Hahaha that’s a fair observation. I wrote the first amateur page. I definitely lean into ellipses here, but it’s for a reason and led Joe to read the page how I’d intend a reader/audience to experience the scene. For me, an ellipsis accomplishes two things: 1. Indicates that the action continues beyond the end of a line, vs. a period, line break, or double hyphen (all used to great effect for breaking up actions and creating scenes that move fast and “pop”). 2. When used in a paragraph like I do on this page, it creates the sense that we’re holding on a single shot, and the actions slowly unfold in front of us. The goal of this scene is to introduce the reader/audience to a story that is more of a slow burn psychological thriller where reality is maybe not what it totally seems and the sense of foreboding dread that propels the reader forward requires longer shots and flowing action that I think is best represented with the use of ellipses as I have. I thought it would be helpful to share the intent behind this approach for folks to consider as they think about where to use ellipsis, period, double hyphen, or line break to convey their story. It's a choice for sure and probably won’t work for everyone, but making those choices as we see fit and letting the chips fall where they may is what makes this kind of writing exciting!
I thought this was really awesome, and would like to have a chance to try and stump you guys sometime, although my writing is probably glaringly amateur 😂😂
Here'a script these guys will like: Focus on a pair of florescent lights, one works, the other CLICKS and BUZZES as the ignitor fires but fails to light the tube before the light flickers and dies. BAM, the ER double doors fly open as an elderly man in his 80''s, buck naked save for a large, comically oversized cowboy hat is being rushed into ER. His face looks like a bloodied mess, as if a 3rd year art student went overboard on the purple modeling clay. The gurney wheels whip around in a frantic scramble for purchase as they skirt along on the filthy ER floor. Despite his injuries the man is smiling, at least that's the impression. It's hard to distinguish where his mouth ends and his nose begins. COWBOY: Do-da-dee, morphine please.
Gentlemen! Congrats on your super valuable series. One of the pro scripts you shared, Raising Kane by Shawn Corridan, includes lyrics I recognized because my grandpa used to sing this old cowboy song, "Git Along Little Dogies." Joe Marino did not sing the song I could hear in my mind. But trust me, in addition to the juicy smells and cinematic details, the screenwriter delivers serious contrast between the impending violent confrontation and the light-hearted song the main character sings. Thought you'd enjoy this version I found today sung by Sons of the Pioneers: th-cam.com/video/vH7VxxVUqwc/w-d-xo.html
"I knew it was pro from the "gurney wheels are flying".. that has to be one of the most cliched bullshit tropes in tv drama ever. I'm surprised there weren't directing notes in there too (low angle, reduced field of view, focusing on the one wheel that's spinning all over the place"... "that's pro right there".. Oooooookay.
It all comes down to tone and execution, but a large amount of swearing could possibly turn some readers off. My script Aftermath went through several rounds of removing F-Bombs, first at my manager's prompting, then at the producer's, and then when I was on set, I watched one of the actor's ask the director if he could leave out the F-Bomb in a line since he already says that word, "so much," lol. So all that is to say, I get the temptation to use it a lot, and at least in my case, it didn't prevent the movie from getting made, but it was something that bumped some people.
Thanks to all of your support and feedback, this is now a series! Episode #2 is out and we have more lined up, with some awesome special guests. AND... whether you're a pro or amateur screenwriter, you can be part of it! If you'd like to be involved, head over to: www.nathangrahamdavis.com/spotthepro
ABSOLUTELY do this again. It was fun to watch. Next time, I have one suggestion. Read all eight scripts in no particular order. Comment on each script after it is read, but vote which are which only after all of them have been read. That would help alleviate the "luck of the draw"; where you know one of the two presented scripts has to be a pro script. I'd bet by having to divide eight scripts into two groups of four would improve the chances for the amateur scripts to prevail.
I think your suggestion is a great one and we talked about doing it. My concern was it might be too boring to do eight straight with no reveals. But there’s a lot of upside to that method, for sure.
@@NGDwrites - I doubt it'd be boring. I enjoyed the reading & discussion. ...besides, then you have the suspense of the "big reveal" at the end.
I'm 16 years old and currently working on a short film script (as well as having many ideas for full length films) so seeing such a quality and captivating page from someone very close in age to me is a really good feeling.
Glad you found that inspiring!
What have you learned so far from your journey
This was a great exercise. Please do more. Something valuable I learned recently that changed the way I read/write scipts and something that helps me tell the difference between amateur and pro writer is this: Scene description is not a scene description. Amateur screenwriters, including me, describe what's going on in thee scene, while pros dramatize the hack out of it. John stands up and leaves the room vs John leaps to his feet and rushes out the room. First sentence gives us nothing while the second gives us 1) The state of mind John is in. 2) The pacing of the scene. 3) Visual medium that's clear. Thought I should share this since this helped me a lot and currently rewriting all of my scene "descriptions" using this method.
Glad you enjoyed it! That's a nice epiphany you had.
Great idea! It was fun to play along! One thing I thought about afterwards was how these are probably the TOP TIER Amateur scripts (hand picked by the moderator) versus professional quality scripts that HAVEN'T been produced. So you made this as tough on yourself as possible. And each of you still hit 3 out of 4!
Yes, Joe definitely selected top tier amateur scripts and that is definitely worth noting. When I put out the call, I suggested that only experienced writers apply, and then Joe selected only 4 from 100 of those. So they were high quality, for sure.
Look at these guyssss. This has gotta be an ongoing series
Might just have to be…
Now look at YOU
Great vid guys. This is the way to deep dive writing in an interesting way. IMO. Keep doing stuff like this and you’ll have the biggest screenwriting channel. 🤙🏾
Glad to hear you enjoyed it!
Thanks man!
Great experiment. Would love to watch on the regular.
I loved this.
On a side-note: Screenwriters, you can't bring a patient who flat-lined back to life with a defibrillator. The purpose of a defib is to detect irregular heart rhythms and shock them back to normal rhythms, not to shock a heart back to life once it has flat-lined.
Wow, had no idea that was just a movie myth!
Got all 4, although do agree the writing was very good by each 'amateur' but I could just tell within the first few lines when the comparison was shown.
Just shows how important the whole picture is... voice, vocabulary, pace, structure!
I agree with others that you should read all 8, discuss each one after and then see after!
Finally managed to sit down and watch this. Love this concept so much, definitely need to see more! Also left me feeling inspired for my own projects, which is always a good thing. Congratulations on another great video!
Glad you enjoyed it, man!
Great show. Really a lot of fun. Can’t wait to see more. I may have to submit something.
Thanks, Neal - glad you enjoyed it! We're recording the third one tomorrow and have many more planned, so definitely feel free to submit!
Great video. Love all of the uses of "we" in the professional scripts.
It can be a really effective tool when used well!
This was so fun. I learned a lot just listening to your conversations. Looking forward to future episodes.
Awesome! Thanks for checking it out and there are definitely more to come.
I'm a script reader and I've read Ria's work before. She is extremely talented and I'm sure she'll get her break very soon.
I liked this format. It would be interesting to see if you could develop it more. You guys did a great job. I don't think there's anything wrong with constructive criticism however. We absolutely need it to improve what we do and learn how to traverse a difficult industry.
I'm looking forward to reading her pages!
Also, totally agree that criticism is necessary. I'd prefer not to do that publicly unless the writers specifically said they were open to that, though. The stakes are also a little higher for pro writers, since that criticism could potentially impact their reputations.
I see you @VeneziaLivingOnWater - thank you so much, that means a lot!
@@NGDwrites I get your point about a public forum although if you submit your work for such an event, you know it's public. I think this goes to the heart of how we talk about work in a constructive but useful way. For example, if I were to hear that XXX could be improved because of YYY, it would benefit me as much if not more than AAA was brilliant. Additionally everyone listening and watching who is looking to hone their craft and understand what doesn't work and why would also benefit. I think it's possible to do all of this without resorting to any sort of shaming or adverse consequences and, is indeed, necessary.
Regarding the question of the professional writers, I guess it depends whether you ask them for their permission to be involved in this way as well. You touched on what constitutes professional compared to amateur and discussed the nature of high quality writing regardless. Defining what is 'professional' might be your greatest difficulty down the line maybe! But I still posit that every writer has to know that their work can only be improved, whatever their 'status' and a bit of 'free' quality feedback is great for everyone. It doesn't mean the writer in question is poor or not deserving of their credits/reputation. The opposite is just coddling which helps no one.
The art, completely, is how to give genuine, honest criticism in a constructive way. Maybe that's not what this project is about but I think, at it's heart, you're trying to show people what is needed to get a prospective client past the first page, the first 20 pages, to the end of the script, to a contract etc etc? So learning how to improve what we all do is the ultimate objective and requires some guts and the support that comes from an honest appraisal of even the best work.
By the way, along with Ria, there was some really excellent writing on show. My main constructive point would have been that, with such intensely rich opening 'statements', one sometimes lost the thread of who was who, doing what and why! On page one, in particular, you don't want to get lost (This might be because the pages were read out and scrolled on the page - can you put the full page up in future - even the visuals of the page are a useful clue as I'm sure you know!).
Many thanks for your response and all the best, Laura
@@ria_fend Keep at it Ria. You have a truly unique voice, something to say and you're fun x
This was so fun to watch! Interesting idea and great video. It might be fun to also venture a guess of the story/logline but one page is probably too short for that. Please do more!
Yeah, I feel like a good first page will typically clue you into the genre, but a story/logline sounds almost impossible, lol. Glad you enjoyed it!
This was wonderful. Do it more, please! Cheers !!!
Coming right up!
This was great! A really informative way to learn and see different approaches to first pages. would love some more, and thanks Graham, as always, for sharing your thoughts and time with the community. 😊
Really glad you enjoyed it! We had a great time doing it.
Wow, (4 for 4). Hope you guys keep this going at least once a month. Great insight!
Thank You : )
Nicely done! We are currently scheming about how to approach the next one.
This was great and I’m glad you’re doing more, but I would say that where it somewhat fails to test the premise is that the amateur scripts were essentially pre-screened to weed out the (likely high) percentage of them that wouldn’t have provided much of a challenge.
To really test this, I think you’d have to read something like 100 first pages with an unknown number of professional writers in the mix and attempt to identify them to see how many you misidentify.
Oh, you're definitely right. When we put out the call, we specifically said we were looking for writers who might be able to stack up against the pros. And then Joe read through 100 pages and selected four of the very best. So those were tip top pages.
As I said in the video, it wasn't a perfectly scientific test. But we all feel this way is a lot more interesting and fun. If we'd selected four random pages from random amateur writers, the task would have been pretty easy. And just as importantly -- perhaps moreso -- none of those writers would have wound up with the boost or feedback they've received since this video launched.
For that reason, we're going to continue on with top tier amateur pages, because we actually have some really cool guests coming on (managers, producers, etc) and it'd be great to create an actual opportunity for someone. And plus... it's fun!
Great job friends 👍🏻 Really appreciate your efforts to empathize with all kinds of writers. And the greatest idea I got from this video is, if you want your story on the screen, a good story and a strong "voice" will do the job.
Thanks a lot.
Thanks for watching - glad you enjoyed it!
I thought this was great! Great idea. The point about the 1st page clearly indicating you're in the hands of a competent writer--amateur or pro--is so important for those of us still trying to break through.
I'm in a similar position as NGD. Got some modest success with my first 2 scripts: agent, manager, script sent out wide to studios/prodcos, round of mertings, and several options & eventual sale of the 2nd script (unproduced) to a good size indie company for guild minimums.
Now, many years later, I wanna nuther bite at the apple. I'm working on a low-budget horror script with what I think is a good hook, so it'll be interesting to see if the industry is still as open to reads off cold query letters as I found it to be with those first 2 scripts.
I'll be hitting up the few old contacts I've got from the first go-around, but if they're not interested, I'll have to fall back on the cold query campaign that got the ball rolling the first time.
I'm just not sure how viable an option that remains in 2024.
Anyway, this video has been very inspirational in helping me stay excited about all of it. Thanks!
That's great that you're back at it! Querying is the hardest it's ever been, in my experience. I struggled getting responses to queries last year, when I was trying to find a new manager, and I have a movie coming out!
Some producers and reps still respond to them on occasion, but there are more people doing this than ever, which means there are more people querying than ever, and there's just a ton of noise out there.
I do recommend that you try querying, but you're also going to want to put the time into networking as referrals by far the best way to get read. It's also not a bad idea to try out the Black List and Nicholl. Both are long shots, but some people in the industry do pay attention to the scripts that do well there. Just keep at it and keep turning over every stone you can.
Interesting & informative exercise- I’m 2 for 2 so far - looking forward to going through the remainder especially as I’m presently working on a page one first rewrite myself 👏😋
really enjoyed this disussion and the scripts used for "the challenge".
Thanks for checking it out!
this video was awesome - I came from reddit and was only expecting to watch a few minutes, but ended up watching the whole thing. Thanks for doing this and looking forward to seeing more!
Stoked you enjoyed it!
1,1,2,2 were my guesses. super fun video, i learned a lot from it. just subscribed 🤙
Awesome! Thanks for watching!
Really enjoyed this vid. Would love to see another round.
It's officially happening!
Please do this again. This was great. I got all 4 guesses right.
Nicely done! We have officially scheduled a recording date for episode 2 have several more in the works, so keep an eye out!
@@NGDwrites looking forward
Landed all 4 (but all 8 were really good!) Great video, all!
Awesome! Thanks for watching.
So interesting! Thanks for this.
Glad you dug it!
Fascinating. Good choices and great writing.
I gotta agree. Those pages were really strong.
Informative and fun video. I think you all did a great job. I just want to add that even by the end of the fairly long video what struck me the most was how well A-2 stayed with me. I really want to see that movie, alor at least read the whole script.
Thanks for watching! Glad to hear you found it fun and got something out of it.
Had to come back to leave a comment cuz I failed to when this first came out. Almost missed the 2nd one due to 2 glaring issues that bumped me out of the story, but I stuck with it cuz the writing drew me in. Went 4 for 4 on this thanks to some of your input. Would have been 3/4 otherwise.
Im currently writing my first screenplay, so this video is not only fun, but definitely a great help for when I am finished with my first draft and start on my first rewriting journey.
2 pairs in, I managed to guess both so far. First one I guessed because the amateur did not follow a rule that I read in one of the articles Ive read about screenwriting. Im just gonna go ahead and take this as a sign that Professor Google is at least semi helpful.
However, it is really interesting how so far the professionals focussed on painting a picture of both the scene and the characters inner workings in a way that the amateurs could not replicate.
So glad you found it helpful!
What is the rule that was not followed?
@@JK-mk7ii Very miniscule. Don't bold lines to indicate shouting.
@serryy - Just as general advice for a beginner, try not to take "rules" about format too seriously. I get why someone might have said that, because if you overdo it with that kind of thing, it's going to make for an obnoxious read, but bold font is a tool in the toolbox and there could certainly be an occasion that calls for using it. Anyway -- happy writing!
@@NGDwrites thanks. I can see that being the case.
I will still use those "hard rules" to try to find the amateur scripts in your videos :P
amazing content, keep it up!
Thanks! Keep an eye out for another one of these in the next couple weeks...
A lot of these were great - you picked very well, they are all good writers. To me, I got most of them - there was a typo on the pro page in the first one which threw me, so I picked wrong. But the others, I knew when I was reading pro work
Glad you enjoyed 'em! And yeah, although no writer *wants* to have typos in their work, unlike novelists, we don't typically have copyeditors. They do slip through and at the end of the day, they have zero bearing on the story, so I never really judge a script or a writer based on them.
@@NGDwrites same! I'm a screenwriter too, the second I send it off, that's the moment I realise there's a typo! It just rare to see a typo on a first page - I expect a couple throughout a script, its just usually that first page is so picked over its rarely got a thing wrong with it
Yes!! Do this again!
Based on the responses, we definitely will be. Keep an eye out!
@@NGDwrites I would love to throw a first page in there for you all. :)
Joe, please rock back-and-forth more!
I can't sit still, it's a horrible affliction. 🤣
I usually avoid long TH-cam videos, but this one hooked me-especially the Joe's hilarious attempt to pronounce 'defibrillator.' Got a good laugh out of that. Also with Twitter banned here, how can I send you my opening pages for your next video?
So glad you enjoyed it! I'm going to create a form on my website where people can submit in the future, so you won't need twitter for it.
Doctors and nurses and medical professionals in general hate scenes where a defibrillator is used on someone whose heart has stopped. "You never shock a flatline." The entire purpose of a defibrillator is to stop the heart when it's gone into a dangerous rhythm, in the hope that it will restart in a good rhythm. But if it has already stopped (flatline) then the defibrillator does nothing. In that situation it's time for CPR.
I can tell. But not on my page lol
It's definitely harder when it's your own work, lol.
For a more difficult challenge, you could read each script, give it the label "pro" or "amateur".
Then once done: show again shortly the page and with a cool visual effect- wooosh PRO! or AMATEUR!
Then short images of you with a smile if you guessed, or with a sad pout if you got wrong.
I think you have a cool concept for a regular show here, and can challenge different guests among your pro-screenwriter friends.
Fun idea and glad you enjoyed it!
Group 3 was easy. An exhausted guy bent down to pick up a newspaper on the platform? And he didn’t simply throw it into the trash but crumpled it first into a ball? That was purely exposition to give us the date and tell us he’s a good guy. I knew right then that it wasn’t by a pro.
But by a 17? That’s impressive. That person is going places.
I find the comment about a very strong voice making a bad story (or script) readable to be very interesting. does it do the writer any good to write something that can’t be filmed for instance? it feels like you could potentially be setting the director up for failure. “Why doesn’t this look as good as it reads”?
Very informational conversation. Thanks for doing this.
Oh, definitely. If it can't be filmed and won't work onscreen, at the end of the day, it's a waste of time for all involved. The conversation was more just about how *powerful* a great voice can be. Ideally, you are first and foremost writing a great movie. The voiciness of the writing is just the cherry on top to make it even more irresistible.
@@NGDwrites Great point.
Whenever I see ellipsis, especially when it's every other line I immediately think amateur, which; if you've read the Shogun pilot you'd know how wrong I am.
Sometimes I hate them and sometimes writers use them in a way that just adds to the atmosphere. Like a lot of things with writing, it's all in the execution!
So Sorry I missed this! Would have been to submit.
We'll likely be doing it again, so be sure to keep an eye out.
I could tell the first one just by listening to the reader's tone. He telegraphed that from a mile away. He read the pro's page full of pep and the second one with a dull monotone. Not to mention, he described it prior to reading it by stating how he finds pros to be "cinematic".
Having said that, the second one had more ellipsis than an introspective's internal monologue.
The second one was a given, but listener #2 ruined reader's and listener #1's plan by being honest lmao 🤣
Hahaha that’s a fair observation. I wrote the first amateur page. I definitely lean into ellipses here, but it’s for a reason and led Joe to read the page how I’d intend a reader/audience to experience the scene. For me, an ellipsis accomplishes two things: 1. Indicates that the action continues beyond the end of a line, vs. a period, line break, or double hyphen (all used to great effect for breaking up actions and creating scenes that move fast and “pop”). 2. When used in a paragraph like I do on this page, it creates the sense that we’re holding on a single shot, and the actions slowly unfold in front of us. The goal of this scene is to introduce the reader/audience to a story that is more of a slow burn psychological thriller where reality is maybe not what it totally seems and the sense of foreboding dread that propels the reader forward requires longer shots and flowing action that I think is best represented with the use of ellipses as I have.
I thought it would be helpful to share the intent behind this approach for folks to consider as they think about where to use ellipsis, period, double hyphen, or line break to convey their story. It's a choice for sure and probably won’t work for everyone, but making those choices as we see fit and letting the chips fall where they may is what makes this kind of writing exciting!
Fun video, guys!
Glad you enjoyed it!
The Streets of Laredo guy needs to be writing novels.
I thought this was really awesome, and would like to have a chance to try and stump you guys sometime, although my writing is probably glaringly amateur 😂😂
Definitely keep an eye out… maybe there will be an opportunity!
@@NGDwrites radical
i sooo wish I had seen the callout to submit to this
Submit for a future round! - www.nathangrahamdavis.com/spotthepro
Can i send my first page???
Absolutely. Check out the pinned comment for more info.
Here'a script these guys will like: Focus on a pair of florescent lights, one works, the other CLICKS and BUZZES as the ignitor fires but fails to light the tube before the light flickers and dies. BAM, the ER double doors fly open as an elderly man in his 80''s, buck naked save for a large, comically oversized cowboy hat is being rushed into ER. His face looks like a bloodied mess, as if a 3rd year art student went overboard on the purple modeling clay. The gurney wheels whip around in a frantic scramble for purchase as they skirt along on the filthy ER floor. Despite his injuries the man is smiling, at least that's the impression. It's hard to distinguish where his mouth ends and his nose begins. COWBOY: Do-da-dee, morphine please.
Cool story! 🎉
Pass.
Gentlemen! Congrats on your super valuable series. One of the pro scripts you shared, Raising Kane by Shawn Corridan, includes lyrics I recognized because my grandpa used to sing this old cowboy song, "Git Along Little Dogies." Joe Marino did not sing the song I could hear in my mind. But trust me, in addition to the juicy smells and cinematic details, the screenwriter delivers serious contrast between the impending violent confrontation and the light-hearted song the main character sings. Thought you'd enjoy this version I found today sung by Sons of the Pioneers: th-cam.com/video/vH7VxxVUqwc/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for sharing that!
"I knew it was pro from the "gurney wheels are flying".. that has to be one of the most cliched bullshit tropes in tv drama ever. I'm surprised there weren't directing notes in there too (low angle, reduced field of view, focusing on the one wheel that's spinning all over the place"... "that's pro right there".. Oooooookay.
25:53 32:14 17 year-old writer
What the hell is going on in here
People stealing the bad ideas of others to get hits.
Happy to include you any time, bro.
Lol... whose idea did we steal, Brad?
@@edgardevice You must have been one of the amateur scripts
@@NGDwrites Lock it in for next time.
Good idea,but way too long.
3/4
Well done!
4/4
One page at most two. Thats it. The rest is shit if the first page is shit. Absolutely.
Would you guys say that too much swearing in a pilot is a bad idea? Writing a futuristic cartoon fiction meant for adult audiences.
It all comes down to tone and execution, but a large amount of swearing could possibly turn some readers off. My script Aftermath went through several rounds of removing F-Bombs, first at my manager's prompting, then at the producer's, and then when I was on set, I watched one of the actor's ask the director if he could leave out the F-Bomb in a line since he already says that word, "so much," lol. So all that is to say, I get the temptation to use it a lot, and at least in my case, it didn't prevent the movie from getting made, but it was something that bumped some people.
@@NGDwrites great help. Thanks
Hi great insightful video…..keep it up
Glad you enjoyed it!
Look at my man @joemarino7837 the host with the most! 😂
Fun exercise, fellas.
Joe is the best!