lol face_9 And I’m from even further in the future, doctor who has been cancelled because Jodie Whittaker regenerated into a mixed race non binary alien. Thanks Chibnall 👍
@@StormgemThunder I mean, if it focussed on the people the Doctor has worked with like in Journey's End and the Stolen Earth where Davros calls 10th's friends "the CHildren of TIme", it would make sense.
Yup, we can just called the 13th run all the most hated ep of who ever, even the best of the 13th would be the worst of most other dr. But keep in mind there is another series for the 13th so i can bet money we will get another(or 10) crapfest.
I thought this episode was a great continuation of "The Doctor, the Widow, and the Wardrobe", where they save an entire forest from destruction, and the forest comes back to save them all in return.
I rewatched recently as well. There is only so much bullshit 'magic' a Dr. Who episode can have. I think this happened a lot for the first season of Capaldi. They overshot it on a few occasions, this and the finale being the prime examples. Danny dying in different ways 4 fucking times was idiotic.
Danny is a school teacher... his entire current character is centred around kids. I don’t believe his focus on the kids to be anything unexpected at all, obviously he would focus on the children. I think the episode showed more that Clara was becoming warped by her travels with the doctor. She was falling deeper into the companion lifestyle that caught and changed everyone except Martha Jones. Showing her care less about the children than her fellow teacher and partner says way more about her than it does about Danny. Clara becoming more horrible to the doctor, in my opinion, is due to her realisation that she will never be able to leave him. It has destroyed her old life.
All these Defending the Despised episodes are now redundant when they aren’t dealing with a Chibnall era episode. None of these episodes made me want to stop watching the show but Chibnall and Whitaker succeeded in the run of one short season.
I'm one of the rare folks who thinks Clara's among the best companions, and I love this episode. I'm not a huge Capaldi fan, and I think this is one of his best episodes. I watch this episode every now and then, and I like the resolution, and the little girl. So I agree with this take. But I do wish this had been a Matt/Clara episode though. Oh, as a bi-polar sufferer, I found his comment about the little girl's meds to be dead-on, as she wasn't "sick" she was just operating on a different level. Give me this versus Jodie'a aloofness to the suffering of others.
I don’t really hate any episode. A few aren’t good at all, but I like most episodes. Could you do a video about the rumored upcoming environmental episode?
I agree, I don't especially HATE any episode from NuWho before Series 11 (Ranksoor, Resolution and Ghost Monument are genuine trash.) I tend to see the good in almost every episode. The ones I don't like are never unforgivable. I'd have to wait until that rumoured episode comes out (if it's real) before making a video about it. I don't really like doing news or speculation videos
@@HarboWholmes I actually like The Ghost Monument. It's uninspired, but still decent. Resolution is all right, too. Ranskoor is just dull. About the environmental episode, I was just asking because it would be nice to have a more measured voice making a video about that, rather than the "SJWs are taking over the world and Doctor Who is caving to them!!!!!" type.
As I said, I'd have to wait and see about the environmental episode. It is a bit ridiculous for people to think these kinds of environmental messages are anything new, though. We've had episodes like Green Death, Gridlock and Forest of the Night which have all grappled with environmental issues before. Green Death and Gridlock are widely regarded and beloved episodes for what it's worth. The closest I'll ever get to saying stuff about 'SJWs' influencing Doctor Who is that the casting of Whittaker and the tone of Series 11 has some rather convenient timing behind it all, but I'm not exactly gonna get all whiny and tinfoil hat about it like the Bowlestreks and Nerdrotics do. I prefer judging things by their actual artistic merit and I try to keep away from talking politics at all, given how divisive politics is these days. But yeah, we'll see next year what this supposed environmental episode is like.
@@HarboWholmes All you do is mindless positive contrarianism though.... the "tone" of series 11 is entirely obvious to someone with a mind of their own who isn't deathly-afraid of saying something controversial. I mean it's not even subtle. It might be the least-subtle writing in the history of television. Somehow other people pointing that out is "whiny" and "tinfoil hat", but when you make one video after the next with "I like this thing actually I don't get why other people don't", that's not whiny at all. I've seen your game before, and rest assured, even when you think you're being controversial, you won't say anything remotely close. It's not a conspiracy when people are telling you they are doing it, and the subsequent results of their actions is blatantly obvious to anyone with >70 IQ. If you cannot bring yourself to call even *that* out, then you really do want to be a paid reviewer.
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@@HarboWholmes I don't really hate episodes except for the timeless children
This was a hard one, because I really didn't like the character Danny Pink. I got his story, it all made sense, but like... it made too much sense. And honestly, I still to this day can't see the chemistry between Clara and Danny... not at all. This episode was visually beautiful, I loved the thought of the trees protecting the Earth, I loved how the Doctor had learnt from his mistake. But I hated the stupid stuff throughout the episode. Like at the end when Maeve's sister came out of a bush... I wasn't a fan of Season 8, I much preffered Season 9, and it followed Season 7B which was my favourite.
Welp...I was having a good day until I was reminded that the 50th anniversary was in 2013, more than 7 years ago. At least I had a good video to wash back those memories with
Okay so about that fairytale thing: When we were watching the next time trailer, me and my sister both said: "Hey look it's little red riding hood!" Also I never thought this episode was bad.
There are a quite a few fairytale elements to this story. Sleepers awake, to find the world surrounded by trees that sprung up overnight (Sleeping Beauty), children get lost in a forest (Hansel & Gretel), and there's even a big, bad wolf to go with Maebh's Little Red Riding Hood outfit!
Basically every Clara and Capaldi episode I like, their dynamic is just really enjoyable I think, it feels like two friends traveling in the universe having fun, and that’s what I really care about.
Two friends my ass. She slaps him in the non comedic way, tried to destroy his access to the Tardis, and went around acting like she was him and always knew more. Overshadowed big moments like the Timelords return. She was really insufferable during Capaldi's run.
@@pinkperfectpeach7544 I don't see how the character development was natural. She was almost a different character series to series sometimes episode to episode. If this happens to every companion why would people be complaining about her, you know? Granted not all of it was her fault, some of it is the show's fault for constantly sticking her in the Dr's past and making her Doctor 2.0 in Hell Bent. But things like her trying to destroy Tardis keys lost me.
It’s really weird to me. He basically admits in Deep Breath that he had latent romantic feelings for her, but because his regeneration makes him look older, the relationship can’t be consummated. Clara alludes to this when she says goodbye in Face The Raven and mentions that they have “bad timing”. It’s like this really tangled up affair without any actual sex, and Danny sees it. They’re emotionally entwined in a really unhealthy way.
I stopped watching at the start of this era, but it wasn't because I didn't like the Doctor. I'd just had enough of the universe being at stake every season and being on modern Earth every other week. I went back and watched all of classic Who instead, then caught up again a few months ago.
Conceptually: great idea for an episode. No question. The problem is that everything was resolved by...doing nothing. I get the point they were going for: "nature sorts itself out and we shouldn't interfere with our ignorance." But at the same time, it does sort of feel like we wasted an hour when the characters are essentially running around like ants for no reason. There was no true conflict, so there was really no reason for us to be invested. Maybe if we found out about the solution much earlier in the episode, but the humans were somehow preventing that from happening, thus and potentially dooming everyone, that might have been more compelling. It would've given the doctor and co. some actual agency rather than just being bystanders, effectively.
Danny Pink was a great character. He was a good man who called the Doctor out on his bullshit. We just didn't like him because we are attached to the Doctor and we didn't like those harsh truths.
I really liked the setup of in the forest of the night. But the resolution was bad. And the resolution of an episode is what sticks most with people. I think that is also a reason why people are so hard on chris chibnall's run. I kinda think he has som great concepts and he sets up a lot of interesting mysteries and concepts but the resolution of a lot of them are dissapointing. And some things he just forgets to resolve.
I'm going to only tackle the part where the Doctor tells a girl to not take her antipsychotics. I'm schizophrenic myself, and I can say that having this disorder makes it very, very difficult to adhere to a medication routine, not just because the side effects are crippling, but the delusions can often push you away from them, as you believe they're poison, or that you're being forced to take them because you have powers that the world can't be aware of, or some other pattern of delusional thinking. This sort of message could easily push someone on the verge of quitting their meds over that edge, and, speaking from experience, unmedicated schizophrenia can be devastating, not only for you but for those around you. My episodes were extreme enough to push my own mum into therapy, something she still continues to need. It's a despicable scene and the damage it can, and probably has done is unforgivable.
But she's not ill. Those voices actually exist. She doesn't have a real medical problem. That's the point of her character. That she has been wrongly medicated. Which happens way too much, specially with children.
Fits the 12th doctor as a character though, seeing as he could write off schizophrenia as something more trivial like childlike wonder, and the fact that for a while 12 was a little morally ambiguous. (Also Silvia Sanchez is right)
Children do talk like that! I work in education. This kid has obviously had counselling/anger management and a lot of support around his emotional literacy and identifying triggers.
I'm reminded of Guardians of the Galaxy 2. Nebula says that the guardians aren't friends because all they do is fight and bicker, and Drax disagrees and says they're family.
I agree with you that character driven episodes are underrated. In the new series with Rosa and demons of the Punjab, people complained about a lack of a good villain. These episodes are easily the best of series 11 and are so mainly because of the characters and they let history speak for itself. We don’t need an over the top Gillian every episode
Honestly, the Witchfinder episode was the one which I would have liked without aliens. The issue is for me that the vile people in season 11 got away Scott Free. THe worst out of them being the girl's dad in "It takes you away" and Miss Law Enforcer doesn't even threaten him with Norwegian Child services. Honestly, if they made Yaz be more morally concrete and headstrong, I'd buy that she was a police officer.
I like Demons of the Punjab, but not Rosa. Rosa is one of the episodes that has one of the only problems I have with Series 11 and 12: it's a bit too preachy. Also, the pop song that plays near the end definitely felt way out of place. I agree with you that history should let itself play out in this episode, which is why they should've omitted the time traveling racist. The episode could've easily existed without him. Just have all the characters struggling to make sure that history happens, without any main villain at all.
@@MisterBurgerBeachball Like the main villain isn't an individual but the world of the time. Would have been better than some movies who put it down to individuals like in Crash. There's two ways they could have gone about it if they needed to have a villain. 1) Discrimination's targets change as society changes. If you want the time traveller as a villain, have them be an alien who is one of many that has tried to enslave humanity where humans banded over the iconography of oppressed historical icons like Rosa, Gandhi and Crystal Labeija (the last one created the Ballroom community). 2) There was a time traveller but they were a dim tourist who went to see historical events happen and a guy from the times found him, they spilled the tea on what Rosa was going on to do and the local either mugs or kills the time traveller, stealing his gear to prevent what he believes is a dark future considering how civil rights has progressed over the last few decades.
For me, it was the Girl Who Died (unpopular opinion) because I really struggle to watch them last few scenes. I was so excited for this story and it was not what I was expecting at all D: Great video. Definitely a worthwhile discussion :D
I've only watched Girl Who Died once, and it didn't leave much of an impression on me. I'll revisit it at some point, but from what I remember it was so-so
@@fromthethirdplanet Yeah I know what you mean. I think I dislike The Girl Who Died because it's actually really important as it explains how the Doctor got his face :o
I feel as if Clara and the doctor show a resemblance to a toxic marriage it started off good but then something happened and then they started arguing until their relationship ended
In this time of binge watching, episodes are seen one after another so they get compared right away to the episodes right before and after. This one was not the best, but I liked it. I think it's good that you are taking another look at these "filler" episodes. Not every story is explosive and fast. Sometimes there needs a calmer show to advance the characters.
I'd like to see that "Well it has the doctor being err good beacuse um err she said tha um nono wait the message is good beacuse it isnt subtle (wait what was the message) it's really good beacuse urm B E N N I Ok no; its terrible SHUT THIS THING DOWN"
I just love coming across all these out of context titbits from an episode I haven't seen yet. I know I'm going to hate it, but yall making me want to watch it anyway
I thought the gun fighters was ok, I think coz i grew up on cowboy movies. It wasn’t a typical Dr Who story, though. It’s interesting what you say about 11th being fairytale orientated and 12th being moral oriented. I never clocked until now.
I'm a Danny Pink enjoyer, so I am glad to hear a defense of an episode that gives him some good moments. I watched this whole season in a few sittings, so I think my issue with FotN is that it does settle around more intense episodes. I might have to give it another chance though.
Child actors are only as good as the direction they are given. Sure, a bit of underlying talent does help but if you give them a decent set of lines and coach them on how to really react to things that they may not be able to see then it will at least be passable. Half the success of Stranger Things is down to the production crew and how they deal with the kids. Rather than telling them to ham it up they teach them how to act.
The question of whether or not he is a good man is deeper than it seems. In "The Night of the Doctor", it was established that the Eighth Doctor liked to think that the name "the Doctor" meant the same thing as "the good man". And before the later retcon of infinite regenerations was shoved onto the series to instantly invalidate all past or future dramatic tensions, being granted an entirely new cycle of regenerations raised the question in the Twelfth Doctor's mind, of whether or not he was the same man anymore. Whether or not he was the Doctor. Whether or not he was the good man.
This is really random but Forest of the Night was the first episode of Doctor Who that I ever watched and it got me hooked onto the show. It was definitely a tonal shift to have Dark Water/Death in Heaven story right after this.
The first episode I ever watched was witchfinders. On the same day I watched the Satan Pit and Love&Monsters. Love&Monsters was one of the first episodes I ever watched.
I love Peter Capaldi's Doctor so so much. I understand why some people don't like him because it's subjective but a lot of criticism is unfair/ not justifiable. Doctor Who is a constantly changing show, i'll accept that some parts will be loved by some and hated by others and vice versa. But something being not to a viewers taste doesn't mean it's bad. E.g it's perfectly reasonable for a person to dislike shows like The Walking Dead because they don't like dark and violent shows but that wouldn't make it a bad show. Although change is good, It's important for Doctor Who to not go to far away from what the show is at heart. The Doctor is an ancient and eccentric being, an alien, who has been through so much. The audience must not forget that. Peter Capaldi really makes this clear. Jodie Whittaker's Doctor does not. I adore it when the Doctor has their dark, emotional and angry moments. They've lost their family, their children and friends countless times. That is integral to who they are at this point... but The 13th Doctor does not have this side, or not enough of it. If they did, they wouldn't be so willing to have companions as it seemed they picked the first 3 people willing to travel with them. Also I think some (especially female) viewers were cranky that the Doctor wasn't attractive when they were Peter Capaldi. A lot of people do base how much they want to watch things on wether they are attracted to the characters and can ship that character with other attractive characters. At heart the Doctor has always been a mad old man. Also Capaldi is an amazing actor who was dedicated to the role so much. Although there were issues with the writing, that is not his fault and people need to stop blaming bad writing decisions on Peter. That's not his fault.
Not for me... because I had to work that day and I don't think it replayed like the episodes usually do and it wasn't long after that season that my satellite provider dropped BBC America and I hadn't really been enjoying Moffat's run so I've never bothered to try to watch it online.
It's Capaldi. I think that's probably why I'm so lenient towards the hated episodes from his run. I just love his portrayal of the character so much and the Capaldi era in general. I think I might make a video about it down the line.
Tennant is my second favourite. He was first for a long time, but I've realised that the Capaldi era was just so strong and consistently good. Tennant still has a special place in my heart because I grew up watching the RTD era so it's very nostalgic
Tennant for me. Capaldi would be my second, as he was the single reason I was still watching. Couldn't stand a lot of the Moffatt era writing (Mostly his own), but Capaldi himself was FANTASTIC.
There is a lot to hate about this episode that you skipped over. My main problem with this episode is how blatantly shitty Clara is, bottom the Doctor, but just in general. She is willing to just let the kids die without even really trying to let the Doctor help. That's not part of her character, which has always been way more nurturing to balance out Capaldi's more rough and prickly personality. Clara just feels bad this episode, she isn't at all written well. Also, the episode was basically a non-episode. The doctor didnt need to do anything, the trees had it handled from the get go. We essentially watch the characters have a nature hike by the end. And finally, the stupid resolution of protecting the earth with an oxygen bubble from a solar flare. Oxygen is flammable. This is like trying to stop a fire by making a wall of kindling in front of it. It's a dumb episode and I personally don't think your justifications make up for it.
People saying it’s bad because the Doctor doesn’t need to be in it have clearly never seen the William Hartnell era. Also the fandom seem more like Daleks than actual people. At least the Daleks look and sound cool.
always been strange to me that this episode is sometimes described as the worst out of series 8 considering that like...kill the moon is RIGHT THERE. the only thing i disliked about this episode was the doctor saying the kid shouldn't take her meds -- it was an unnecessary stigmatizing of medication for neurodivergent people when it wasn't necessary to the storyline. they could've literally just had her not be on any medication and have it just that everyone thinks she's been weird since her sister's disappearance and the Doctor is the first person to take her seriously instead of dismissing her.
No, the ending doesn't make sense. We aren't going to forget the COVID-19 worldwide pandemic. This episode is weak, and poorly written with awful acting. It is a weak episode, but not as bad as anything in the Chibnall era.
How does it work that you just throw out words like 'weak', 'poorly' and 'awful' without making any points or reasoning and then it is bad? Is it possible to learn this power?
we aren't going to forget about the pandemic because it didn't last for less than 24 hours. plus the idea that characters have forgotten stuff or are oblivious to stuff that has happened is common because it is a tv show.
Well... humanity had a flue pandemic just one century ago and we didn't seem to learn anything. If you read history you'll find that is true, humans forget. They always do. What is weak IMO is the way the trees disappear. It's just too magic/fairy tale style.
Doctor Who has hit and misses, but despite them been bad, they are good and if you are a long time fan you know Doctor Who is heavy footed. I think Chibnall has taught fans the difference between understanding Who and bad Who.
I liked the episode very much. The only part I didn't like was the magical disappearance of trees. That for me was a WTF moment. It's almost like saying "it was all a dream". The rest was great. I liked how Doctor keeps pointing out at humanity addressing anything unusual as something that needs to be destroyed. To the people complaining about the meds bit... Looks like you didn't understand the character. She's not ill, she hears voices that actually exist, she has a deeper connection with these entities. Is that really something bad and punishable? She just has an ability nobody else has. She has been *wrongly* medicated. It's completely different from someone who's actually ill and hearing internal voices or suffering depression. Last but not least, the child acting... well, let's be honest, those lines are so un-childish. They seem written by someone who completely forgot how it was when he was a child, so he just put adult's dumbed down lines.
So odd. This is the first time I hear that In The Forest Of The Night was hated and Flatline loved. For me, it was the other way around. I didn't exactly hate Flatline, I just thought it was a sub-par episode. But I absolutely loved In The Forest Of The Night.
Who the hell hates forest of the night? the kids are annoying yeah, and that taxidermy tiger should be a capital offense, but 12 is so fucking cool in this one, and the way he crankily interacts with the cute child is just darling. Danny pulls his weight too and gets some much needed characterization, showing his strength as a protector, and an actual moral compass. Clara is also there.
The kids were just... bad. The script didn't give them lines a kid would say, the kids didn't deliver them the way a kid would, and only Danny treated the kids like an adult in that situation would (which I will concede is part of the point). And I'm speaking as a kid, for the kids.
I didn't personally mind the web planet; Vicki was very good in it, but the gunfighters was just not good, the only part of it I genuinely liked was the doctor getting his tooth removed but every other part was just so boring and unenjoyable.
#teamtrees Also I don’t get why Clara is only in doctor who for 2 and half seasons even though at the end of the name of the doctor Clara is shown to have be sent throughout the doctors lifetime being always there
You say the season utilizes the theme of "is the Doctor a good person" and that makes sense, that's clearly what they were going for, but their approached it is what made me stop watching the show altogether. In the episode "Flatline" the one I think you cite as being one of the more popular ones (and indeed Wikipedia at least says it received good critical reception), I distinctly recall being disappointed in the Doctor's behavior and deciding he wasn't the right kind of character anymore. See, at his core, the Doctor cares about humanity (not just the collective whole, but each individual in that collective as well) and would never willingly sacrifice them. It's part of his growth from the Time War, where he decided he couldn't sacrifice millions to save even more (or specifically why he couldn't do it a second time, at least, to stop the Daleks in the season finale). But I remember him being incredibly nonchalant about other peoples' deaths in Flatline. That specific episode. I rewatched the ending because I thought it was there, but he's actually the polar opposite right at the end (chiding the old man for being so alright with the deaths of those who had been with them on that episode's wild ride)... but I *know* that at some point in that episode (or maybe in that series before if not that actual episode), if I rewatch it completely I may find it, he coldly responds to someone else over the death of an individual with absolutely no emotion, no interest, and lost my loyalty to the character. I couldn't see him as the Doctor if he didn't give a damn that someone died. It's not uncommon for him to pretend he doesn't care, but he's usually quite bad at it and shows the cracks *somehow* but he doesn't do that in that series and it really bothered me. Overall, honestly, I found the series boring, but that was the breaking point for me and why I haven't returned to the series since, except to try and rewatch the 9th, 10th and 11th Doctors here and there.
@@pinkperfectpeach7544 "His nonchalance for ‘small’ deaths is unsurprising considering all that he’s witnessed" You act like that wasn't the case for the 9th Doctor. Yet he didn't turn out to be an old asswipe. It is part of the Doctor's character, the core of his personality that never changes (modern Who anyway), to give a shit about the deaths of individuals. He may hide it or he may pretend otherwise, but to outright not give a fuck isn't in the Doctor. And second, as I already said I have watched him, I just haven't watched it all. I lost steam and gave up. Plus now that it's not on Amazon Prime Video I have no way of watching it. Not going to go out and buy it on the hopes I might appreciate it this time around, that's for fuckin' sure.
I hated a number of things about the episode, not the least of which being the "modern pharmaceuticals suppress true vision" trope. I also remember this episode as being cringey and preachy environmentalist garbage. It's groan-inducing in that it's a transparent piece of propaganda where the fiction is not the focus but merely a tool of the writer
It shouldn't be a hot take that we don't tell people not to take their meds. I also think it might be a little dangerous, for some people with mental health conditions have a hard time separating reality from fiction, so hearing someone on TV tell them not to take their meds is just plain irresponsible. If you can't write something good without degrading mental illness, you shouldn't be writing at all.
The main problem I had with this episode was exactly the same as with Kill the Moon - the central premise and explanation just shattered my suspension of disbelief. If you can put that aside, both episodes are average at worst. But come on, The Web Planet and The Gunfighters are great!
Hands down I think 'Empty child' was the worst episode ever.. Every 5 seconds threw out the episode some child says 'Are you my mummy?' By the end of the episode I was yelling at the TV, 'Oh God... SHUT UP!' The Weeping angles were used way WAY WAY too much in some episodes. You could site the same things for the Darleks , but they were not in every other episode. I grew up with dr who from the fourth Doctor on.
I'm from the future, we got a little something called Orphan 55.
I’m from even further in the future we got a little something called the timeless children
lol face_9
And I’m from even further in the future, doctor who has been cancelled because Jodie Whittaker regenerated into a mixed race non binary alien. Thanks Chibnall 👍
@@stanarian5238 the doctor is already an alien, not sure how that would cancel the show.
Joe Aird He’s already covered that episode in his series; Dissecting The Moldering Corpse of a Once Great Show
BENNNNIIII
Danny’s focusing on the kids might be related to what happened while he was at war
That's a good point! His guilt makes him more protective of the children
That is why he is one of my favourite characters. He is selfless and is a pretty nice guy
This title now goes to the “Timeless Child”
@@StormgemThunder I mean, if it focussed on the people the Doctor has worked with like in Journey's End and the Stolen Earth where Davros calls 10th's friends "the CHildren of TIme", it would make sense.
Christopher Bennett I think it’s just a reference to how the doctors has had several incarnations he never knew existed
@@dcwatcher4644 It really is as timeless as the bowlcut... in that it's universally disliked and often thrown on people.
Raflamar nah, I think it’s great!
Yup, we can just called the 13th run all the most hated ep of who ever, even the best of the 13th would be the worst of most other dr.
But keep in mind there is another series for the 13th so i can bet money we will get another(or 10) crapfest.
I thought this episode was a great continuation of "The Doctor, the Widow, and the Wardrobe", where they save an entire forest from destruction, and the forest comes back to save them all in return.
This is a great way to think of this episode. I rather liked this one, though not the best. Tying to Blake is great too.
After a rewatch I thought it was way better- I think the final scene with that girl's sister appearing in a bush left a bad taste in people's mouths
Yeah, that scene really doesn't help. It does leave a bad impression right at the end
Ive only seen it twice. On the initial release and then a few months later.
I still hated it.
To quote ten; "Don't make it a third!"
I rewatched recently as well. There is only so much bullshit 'magic' a Dr. Who episode can have. I think this happened a lot for the first season of Capaldi. They overshot it on a few occasions, this and the finale being the prime examples. Danny dying in different ways 4 fucking times was idiotic.
THe "Moon is an egg" one had me calling "WTF?" to to my screen constantly
What about MIB?
Peter capaldi is still great in this episode
He's fantastic!
@@HarboWholmes absolutely fantastic!
How is it the worst episode episode when love and monsters literally 10 seconds of actual doctor footage cmon
Ben Grant Blink and Turn Left had barely any, and they have wide acclaim.
@@paddystrongjaw9995 true.
I love watching the show without interacting with the fanbase.
I didn't even know this episode was hated and actually liked it.
Fr fr
Danny is a school teacher... his entire current character is centred around kids. I don’t believe his focus on the kids to be anything unexpected at all, obviously he would focus on the children.
I think the episode showed more that Clara was becoming warped by her travels with the doctor. She was falling deeper into the companion lifestyle that caught and changed everyone except Martha Jones. Showing her care less about the children than her fellow teacher and partner says way more about her than it does about Danny.
Clara becoming more horrible to the doctor, in my opinion, is due to her realisation that she will never be able to leave him. It has destroyed her old life.
All these Defending the Despised episodes are now redundant when they aren’t dealing with a Chibnall era episode. None of these episodes made me want to stop watching the show but Chibnall and Whitaker succeeded in the run of one short season.
I'm one of the rare folks who thinks Clara's among the best companions, and I love this episode. I'm not a huge Capaldi fan, and I think this is one of his best episodes. I watch this episode every now and then, and I like the resolution, and the little girl. So I agree with this take. But I do wish this had been a Matt/Clara episode though.
Oh, as a bi-polar sufferer, I found his comment about the little girl's meds to be dead-on, as she wasn't "sick" she was just operating on a different level. Give me this versus Jodie'a aloofness to the suffering of others.
I don’t really hate any episode. A few aren’t good at all, but I like most episodes.
Could you do a video about the rumored upcoming environmental episode?
I agree, I don't especially HATE any episode from NuWho before Series 11 (Ranksoor, Resolution and Ghost Monument are genuine trash.) I tend to see the good in almost every episode. The ones I don't like are never unforgivable.
I'd have to wait until that rumoured episode comes out (if it's real) before making a video about it. I don't really like doing news or speculation videos
@@HarboWholmes I actually like The Ghost Monument. It's uninspired, but still decent. Resolution is all right, too. Ranskoor is just dull.
About the environmental episode, I was just asking because it would be nice to have a more measured voice making a video about that, rather than the "SJWs are taking over the world and Doctor Who is caving to them!!!!!" type.
As I said, I'd have to wait and see about the environmental episode. It is a bit ridiculous for people to think these kinds of environmental messages are anything new, though. We've had episodes like Green Death, Gridlock and Forest of the Night which have all grappled with environmental issues before. Green Death and Gridlock are widely regarded and beloved episodes for what it's worth.
The closest I'll ever get to saying stuff about 'SJWs' influencing Doctor Who is that the casting of Whittaker and the tone of Series 11 has some rather convenient timing behind it all, but I'm not exactly gonna get all whiny and tinfoil hat about it like the Bowlestreks and Nerdrotics do. I prefer judging things by their actual artistic merit and I try to keep away from talking politics at all, given how divisive politics is these days. But yeah, we'll see next year what this supposed environmental episode is like.
@@HarboWholmes All you do is mindless positive contrarianism though.... the "tone" of series 11 is entirely obvious to someone with a mind of their own who isn't deathly-afraid of saying something controversial. I mean it's not even subtle. It might be the least-subtle writing in the history of television. Somehow other people pointing that out is "whiny" and "tinfoil hat", but when you make one video after the next with "I like this thing actually I don't get why other people don't", that's not whiny at all. I've seen your game before, and rest assured, even when you think you're being controversial, you won't say anything remotely close. It's not a conspiracy when people are telling you they are doing it, and the subsequent results of their actions is blatantly obvious to anyone with >70 IQ. If you cannot bring yourself to call even *that* out, then you really do want to be a paid reviewer.
@@HarboWholmes I don't really hate episodes except for the timeless children
This was a hard one, because I really didn't like the character Danny Pink. I got his story, it all made sense, but like... it made too much sense. And honestly, I still to this day can't see the chemistry between Clara and Danny... not at all. This episode was visually beautiful, I loved the thought of the trees protecting the Earth, I loved how the Doctor had learnt from his mistake. But I hated the stupid stuff throughout the episode. Like at the end when Maeve's sister came out of a bush...
I wasn't a fan of Season 8, I much preffered Season 9, and it followed Season 7B which was my favourite.
I never get the ‘bad writing’ argument for this episode. I think it’s so poetic in its writing; it’s a total work of art.
Welp...I was having a good day until I was reminded that the 50th anniversary was in 2013, more than 7 years ago.
At least I had a good video to wash back those memories with
Okay so about that fairytale thing:
When we were watching the next time trailer, me and my sister both said: "Hey look it's little red riding hood!"
Also I never thought this episode was bad.
There are a quite a few fairytale elements to this story. Sleepers awake, to find the world surrounded by trees that sprung up overnight (Sleeping Beauty), children get lost in a forest (Hansel & Gretel), and there's even a big, bad wolf to go with Maebh's Little Red Riding Hood outfit!
Basically every Clara and Capaldi episode I like, their dynamic is just really enjoyable I think, it feels like two friends traveling in the universe having fun, and that’s what I really care about.
Two friends my ass. She slaps him in the non comedic way, tried to destroy his access to the Tardis, and went around acting like she was him and always knew more. Overshadowed big moments like the Timelords return. She was really insufferable during Capaldi's run.
@@pinkperfectpeach7544 I don't see how the character development was natural. She was almost a different character series to series sometimes episode to episode. If this happens to every companion why would people be complaining about her, you know?
Granted not all of it was her fault, some of it is the show's fault for constantly sticking her in the Dr's past and making her Doctor 2.0 in Hell Bent. But things like her trying to destroy Tardis keys lost me.
It’s really weird to me. He basically admits in Deep Breath that he had latent romantic feelings for her, but because his regeneration makes him look older, the relationship can’t be consummated. Clara alludes to this when she says goodbye in Face The Raven and mentions that they have “bad timing”.
It’s like this really tangled up affair without any actual sex, and Danny sees it. They’re emotionally entwined in a really unhealthy way.
I stopped watching at the start of this era, but it wasn't because I didn't like the Doctor. I'd just had enough of the universe being at stake every season and being on modern Earth every other week. I went back and watched all of classic Who instead, then caught up again a few months ago.
I loved this episode. The year 8s were absolute madlads
I'm from the future. It's not even close to the most hated episode lol
No, Series 11 is the more hated season.
Well, I'd say there's probably more people who like Series 11 than there are people who like 'In the Forest of the Night'
@@HarboWholmes I prefer watch that episode, is more better that Series 11.
I'd say it's the _same_ people who liked 'In the Forest of the Night' that also liked Series 11. It's the only explanation.
I like 'In the Forest of the Night' but not Series 11 aha
@@HarboWholmes I think what I meant to say was, the _only_ people to like Series 11 also happen to like ItFotN.
Conceptually: great idea for an episode. No question. The problem is that everything was resolved by...doing nothing. I get the point they were going for: "nature sorts itself out and we shouldn't interfere with our ignorance." But at the same time, it does sort of feel like we wasted an hour when the characters are essentially running around like ants for no reason. There was no true conflict, so there was really no reason for us to be invested. Maybe if we found out about the solution much earlier in the episode, but the humans were somehow preventing that from happening, thus and potentially dooming everyone, that might have been more compelling. It would've given the doctor and co. some actual agency rather than just being bystanders, effectively.
Danny Pink was a great character. He was a good man who called the Doctor out on his bullshit. We just didn't like him because we are attached to the Doctor and we didn't like those harsh truths.
Does anyone else notice that the music in 1:47 is from Pokemon Emerald's underwater dive sequences?
One of the best games Nintendos released I reckon
I really liked the setup of in the forest of the night. But the resolution was bad. And the resolution of an episode is what sticks most with people. I think that is also a reason why people are so hard on chris chibnall's run. I kinda think he has som great concepts and he sets up a lot of interesting mysteries and concepts but the resolution of a lot of them are dissapointing. And some things he just forgets to resolve.
Honestly enjoyed Fear Her more than this one. At least we got some top notch doctor/companion dialogue and one hilarious counsel man
I'm going to only tackle the part where the Doctor tells a girl to not take her antipsychotics. I'm schizophrenic myself, and I can say that having this disorder makes it very, very difficult to adhere to a medication routine, not just because the side effects are crippling, but the delusions can often push you away from them, as you believe they're poison, or that you're being forced to take them because you have powers that the world can't be aware of, or some other pattern of delusional thinking. This sort of message could easily push someone on the verge of quitting their meds over that edge, and, speaking from experience, unmedicated schizophrenia can be devastating, not only for you but for those around you. My episodes were extreme enough to push my own mum into therapy, something she still continues to need. It's a despicable scene and the damage it can, and probably has done is unforgivable.
But she's not ill. Those voices actually exist. She doesn't have a real medical problem. That's the point of her character. That she has been wrongly medicated. Which happens way too much, specially with children.
Fits the 12th doctor as a character though, seeing as he could write off schizophrenia as something more trivial like childlike wonder, and the fact that for a while 12 was a little morally ambiguous. (Also Silvia Sanchez is right)
Shake It Off starts playing: NOSTALGIA.
I mean, not that it’s good. But it’s still nostalgic.
I miss 2014
‘Member Minecraft? ‘Member Five Nights at Freddy’s? Those were the days.
those were awful times im so glad we've moved on as a culture
I think Sleep no More is the worst.
Btw awesome video man
Aw no, Sleep No More is great! Have you seen my video about it?
And thank you!
It’s one of the few episodes I’ve never been able finish
Children do talk like that! I work in education. This kid has obviously had counselling/anger management and a lot of support around his emotional literacy and identifying triggers.
This video is mistitled. You're arguing about if this episode DESERVES to be hated that much, not about how hated it is.
I actually went to school with one of the child actors in this episode.
Also I loved the twelfth doctor so I enjoyed this episode, even if it’s dumb.
I'm reminded of Guardians of the Galaxy 2.
Nebula says that the guardians aren't friends because all they do is fight and bicker, and Drax disagrees and says they're family.
I think The Gunfighters was really good :(
That RS dive music though.
I appreciate it.
Gotta respectfully disagree about the gunfighters.
I agree with you that character driven episodes are underrated. In the new series with Rosa and demons of the Punjab, people complained about a lack of a good villain. These episodes are easily the best of series 11 and are so mainly because of the characters and they let history speak for itself. We don’t need an over the top Gillian every episode
Honestly, the Witchfinder episode was the one which I would have liked without aliens.
The issue is for me that the vile people in season 11 got away Scott Free. THe worst out of them being the girl's dad in "It takes you away" and Miss Law Enforcer doesn't even threaten him with Norwegian Child services. Honestly, if they made Yaz be more morally concrete and headstrong, I'd buy that she was a police officer.
I like Demons of the Punjab, but not Rosa. Rosa is one of the episodes that has one of the only problems I have with Series 11 and 12: it's a bit too preachy. Also, the pop song that plays near the end definitely felt way out of place.
I agree with you that history should let itself play out in this episode, which is why they should've omitted the time traveling racist. The episode could've easily existed without him. Just have all the characters struggling to make sure that history happens, without any main villain at all.
@@MisterBurgerBeachball Like the main villain isn't an individual but the world of the time. Would have been better than some movies who put it down to individuals like in Crash.
There's two ways they could have gone about it if they needed to have a villain.
1) Discrimination's targets change as society changes. If you want the time traveller as a villain, have them be an alien who is one of many that has tried to enslave humanity where humans banded over the iconography of oppressed historical icons like Rosa, Gandhi and Crystal Labeija (the last one created the Ballroom community).
2) There was a time traveller but they were a dim tourist who went to see historical events happen and a guy from the times found him, they spilled the tea on what Rosa was going on to do and the local either mugs or kills the time traveller, stealing his gear to prevent what he believes is a dark future considering how civil rights has progressed over the last few decades.
@@christopherbennett5858 That 2nd idea definitely would've worked much better.
Capaldi was a great doctor in my opinion. The problem is that he had a lot of poor episodes written for him.
For me, it was the Girl Who Died (unpopular opinion) because I really struggle to watch them last few scenes. I was so excited for this story and it was not what I was expecting at all D: Great video. Definitely a worthwhile discussion :D
I've only watched Girl Who Died once, and it didn't leave much of an impression on me. I'll revisit it at some point, but from what I remember it was so-so
The woman who lived was worse.
@@fromthethirdplanet Yeah I know what you mean. I think I dislike The Girl Who Died because it's actually really important as it explains how the Doctor got his face :o
Harbo: Plays shake it off
Umg: Mine
I feel as if Clara and the doctor show a resemblance to a toxic marriage it started off good but then something happened and then they started arguing until their relationship ended
That tree roast on that kid made me say awwww snap so loud I woke up my parents and now I'm grounded
I rather liked PE. I felt his resolution was a bit botched, but he had an interesting thing going
The premise is a bit faulty, though, isn’t it? Saying something is the most hated is different from saying it’s the worst.
There's a book about this as well called 'The Trees' where a forest springs up over night across America (possibly the world).
In this time of binge watching, episodes are seen one after another so they get compared right away to the episodes right before and after. This one was not the best, but I liked it. I think it's good that you are taking another look at these "filler" episodes. Not every story is explosive and fast. Sometimes there needs a calmer show to advance the characters.
"In 2014, everyone fucking dies"... ... man, that comment did NOT age well.
Have you seen orphan 55
You will be changing your opinion
When you have watched this episode
I'd like to see that
"Well it has the doctor being err good beacuse um err she said tha um nono wait the message is good beacuse it isnt subtle (wait what was the message) it's really good beacuse urm B E N N I
Ok no; its terrible SHUT THIS THING DOWN"
@@mogcmasterofgc158 i think there was a cat girl? That's good right I'm seriously not sure then that one guy dies for no reason
I just love coming across all these out of context titbits from an episode I haven't seen yet. I know I'm going to hate it, but yall making me want to watch it anyway
I thought the gun fighters was ok, I think coz i grew up on cowboy movies. It wasn’t a typical Dr Who story, though.
It’s interesting what you say about 11th being fairytale orientated and 12th being moral oriented. I never clocked until now.
that ruby/sapphire/emerald dive music made me so happy
I'm a Danny Pink enjoyer, so I am glad to hear a defense of an episode that gives him some good moments. I watched this whole season in a few sittings, so I think my issue with FotN is that it does settle around more intense episodes. I might have to give it another chance though.
"Nature was here before us and it will be here after"
Sounds like the Alpha and Omega, which just deifies it.
Child actors are only as good as the direction they are given. Sure, a bit of underlying talent does help but if you give them a decent set of lines and coach them on how to really react to things that they may not be able to see then it will at least be passable. Half the success of Stranger Things is down to the production crew and how they deal with the kids. Rather than telling them to ham it up they teach them how to act.
Chris chipnal: I'm about to end this whole episodes career
The question of whether or not he is a good man is deeper than it seems. In "The Night of the Doctor", it was established that the Eighth Doctor liked to think that the name "the Doctor" meant the same thing as "the good man".
And before the later retcon of infinite regenerations was shoved onto the series to instantly invalidate all past or future dramatic tensions, being granted an entirely new cycle of regenerations raised the question in the Twelfth Doctor's mind, of whether or not he was the same man anymore. Whether or not he was the Doctor. Whether or not he was the good man.
This is really random but Forest of the Night was the first episode of Doctor Who that I ever watched and it got me hooked onto the show. It was definitely a tonal shift to have Dark Water/Death in Heaven story right after this.
The first episode I ever watched was witchfinders. On the same day I watched the Satan Pit and Love&Monsters. Love&Monsters was one of the first episodes I ever watched.
For me, the very worst is The Tsuranga Conundrum. I can't get through that episode.
I can’t even read the name correctly and Pting sounds like a phone notification.
I love Peter Capaldi's Doctor so so much. I understand why some people don't like him because it's subjective but a lot of criticism is unfair/ not justifiable. Doctor Who is a constantly changing show, i'll accept that some parts will be loved by some and hated by others and vice versa. But something being not to a viewers taste doesn't mean it's bad. E.g it's perfectly reasonable for a person to dislike shows like The Walking Dead because they don't like dark and violent shows but that wouldn't make it a bad show.
Although change is good, It's important for Doctor Who to not go to far away from what the show is at heart. The Doctor is an ancient and eccentric being, an alien, who has been through so much. The audience must not forget that. Peter Capaldi really makes this clear. Jodie Whittaker's Doctor does not. I adore it when the Doctor has their dark, emotional and angry moments. They've lost their family, their children and friends countless times. That is integral to who they are at this point... but The 13th Doctor does not have this side, or not enough of it. If they did, they wouldn't be so willing to have companions as it seemed they picked the first 3 people willing to travel with them. Also I think some (especially female) viewers were cranky that the Doctor wasn't attractive when they were Peter Capaldi. A lot of people do base how much they want to watch things on wether they are attracted to the characters and can ship that character with other attractive characters. At heart the Doctor has always been a mad old man. Also Capaldi is an amazing actor who was dedicated to the role so much. Although there were issues with the writing, that is not his fault and people need to stop blaming bad writing decisions on Peter. That's not his fault.
Not for me... because I had to work that day and I don't think it replayed like the episodes usually do and it wasn't long after that season that my satellite provider dropped BBC America and I hadn't really been enjoying Moffat's run so I've never bothered to try to watch it online.
Who is your favorite doctor? Just asking.
It's Capaldi. I think that's probably why I'm so lenient towards the hated episodes from his run. I just love his portrayal of the character so much and the Capaldi era in general. I think I might make a video about it down the line.
Harbo Wholmes Hey, same! I think he was the best actor of them all, Tennant was good too though.
@@erlenmeyer4810 honestly ill take anyone over whittaker.
Tennant is my second favourite. He was first for a long time, but I've realised that the Capaldi era was just so strong and consistently good. Tennant still has a special place in my heart because I grew up watching the RTD era so it's very nostalgic
Tennant for me. Capaldi would be my second, as he was the single reason I was still watching. Couldn't stand a lot of the Moffatt era writing (Mostly his own), but Capaldi himself was FANTASTIC.
I'd take 20 more of these unliked episodes over any from the regrettable Chibnall/Whitaker series. Capaldi got a raw deal.
YES SOMEONE ELSE LIKES DANNY PINK
He is my favourite series 8 character.
really hate watching episodes that i really really enjoyed being dubbed "garbage episodes" ... like... I enjoyed it, whyd everyone else not?
There is a lot to hate about this episode that you skipped over. My main problem with this episode is how blatantly shitty Clara is, bottom the Doctor, but just in general. She is willing to just let the kids die without even really trying to let the Doctor help. That's not part of her character, which has always been way more nurturing to balance out Capaldi's more rough and prickly personality. Clara just feels bad this episode, she isn't at all written well. Also, the episode was basically a non-episode. The doctor didnt need to do anything, the trees had it handled from the get go. We essentially watch the characters have a nature hike by the end. And finally, the stupid resolution of protecting the earth with an oxygen bubble from a solar flare. Oxygen is flammable. This is like trying to stop a fire by making a wall of kindling in front of it. It's a dumb episode and I personally don't think your justifications make up for it.
... Love and monsters?
...is a great episode which doesn't deserve it's reputation! Maybe you should check out my video about it 😝
@@HarboWholmes I'm always happy to have my mind changed. I'll Check it out.
@@HarboWholmes so, I just finished watching your video on it. I have to say, I see the episode in a new light now.
I'm glad to hear it! Rewatching the episode for that video really did change my mind on it as well, It's such an underrated story.
I liked this episode. I didn't know it was so widely hated, but at the same time, I don't socialise much.
People saying it’s bad because the Doctor doesn’t need to be in it have clearly never seen the William Hartnell era.
Also the fandom seem more like Daleks than actual people. At least the Daleks look and sound cool.
This episode gets some bonus points from Clara.
always been strange to me that this episode is sometimes described as the worst out of series 8 considering that like...kill the moon is RIGHT THERE. the only thing i disliked about this episode was the doctor saying the kid shouldn't take her meds -- it was an unnecessary stigmatizing of medication for neurodivergent people when it wasn't necessary to the storyline. they could've literally just had her not be on any medication and have it just that everyone thinks she's been weird since her sister's disappearance and the Doctor is the first person to take her seriously instead of dismissing her.
Whenever people talk about "bad child acting" I wonder if they have ever actually been around children and see how they act/the things they say...
I could probably rewrite this episode. Seriously, none of this episode is set at night.
Perhaps it's called "the forest of the night" simply because the forest literally sprung up in one night.
No, the ending doesn't make sense. We aren't going to forget the COVID-19 worldwide pandemic.
This episode is weak, and poorly written with awful acting. It is a weak episode, but not as bad as anything in the Chibnall era.
What about the pandemic
How does it work that you just throw out words like 'weak', 'poorly' and 'awful' without making any points or reasoning and then it is bad? Is it possible to learn this power?
we aren't going to forget about the pandemic because it didn't last for less than 24 hours. plus the idea that characters have forgotten stuff or are oblivious to stuff that has happened is common because it is a tv show.
Well... humanity had a flue pandemic just one century ago and we didn't seem to learn anything. If you read history you'll find that is true, humans forget. They always do.
What is weak IMO is the way the trees disappear. It's just too magic/fairy tale style.
That episode was okay, I remember I fell asleep while watching it but i was always sleeping in winter, and it was much better than kill the moon
This episode was ok in my opinion, it was pretty chill it wasn't complete trash but it wasn't good either
What about Love and Monsters? Or Power of Three?
this is actually possibly one of my favorite capaldi episodes. he is so kind to the kids. I really don't think the child acting is bad at all.
It's not the worst doctor who episode is the timeless children. I have seen every episode, I'll never watch another now.
Doctor Who has hit and misses, but despite them been bad, they are good and if you are a long time fan you know Doctor Who is heavy footed. I think Chibnall has taught fans the difference between understanding Who and bad Who.
I liked Blake's Seven except Tarrant.
Tarrant was a self centered bastard . But then, hardly any of the male characters were really likable, including Blake.
0:53 as a brazilian im still not over it
As a german I remember it.
I know how bad the german-team is now.😐
I liked the episode very much. The only part I didn't like was the magical disappearance of trees. That for me was a WTF moment. It's almost like saying "it was all a dream".
The rest was great. I liked how Doctor keeps pointing out at humanity addressing anything unusual as something that needs to be destroyed.
To the people complaining about the meds bit... Looks like you didn't understand the character. She's not ill, she hears voices that actually exist, she has a deeper connection with these entities. Is that really something bad and punishable? She just has an ability nobody else has. She has been *wrongly* medicated. It's completely different from someone who's actually ill and hearing internal voices or suffering depression.
Last but not least, the child acting... well, let's be honest, those lines are so un-childish. They seem written by someone who completely forgot how it was when he was a child, so he just put adult's dumbed down lines.
So odd. This is the first time I hear that In The Forest Of The Night was hated and Flatline loved.
For me, it was the other way around. I didn't exactly hate Flatline, I just thought it was a sub-par episode.
But I absolutely loved In The Forest Of The Night.
Who the hell hates forest of the night? the kids are annoying yeah, and that taxidermy tiger should be a capital offense, but 12 is so fucking cool in this one, and the way he crankily interacts with the cute child is just darling. Danny pulls his weight too and gets some much needed characterization, showing his strength as a protector, and an actual moral compass.
Clara is also there.
It also suffered in comparison to that Missy Centric series finale.
The kids were just... bad. The script didn't give them lines a kid would say, the kids didn't deliver them the way a kid would, and only Danny treated the kids like an adult in that situation would (which I will concede is part of the point).
And I'm speaking as a kid, for the kids.
Honestly, the child acting let it down, but it's still a fun episode, and the banter between Clara and 12 was pretty funny. It really isn't THAT bad.
I didn't personally mind the web planet; Vicki was very good in it, but the gunfighters was just not good, the only part of it I genuinely liked was the doctor getting his tooth removed but every other part was just so boring and unenjoyable.
#teamtrees
Also I don’t get why Clara is only in doctor who for 2 and half seasons even though at the end of the name of the doctor Clara is shown to have be sent throughout the doctors lifetime being always there
You say the season utilizes the theme of "is the Doctor a good person" and that makes sense, that's clearly what they were going for, but their approached it is what made me stop watching the show altogether. In the episode "Flatline" the one I think you cite as being one of the more popular ones (and indeed Wikipedia at least says it received good critical reception), I distinctly recall being disappointed in the Doctor's behavior and deciding he wasn't the right kind of character anymore.
See, at his core, the Doctor cares about humanity (not just the collective whole, but each individual in that collective as well) and would never willingly sacrifice them. It's part of his growth from the Time War, where he decided he couldn't sacrifice millions to save even more (or specifically why he couldn't do it a second time, at least, to stop the Daleks in the season finale).
But I remember him being incredibly nonchalant about other peoples' deaths in Flatline. That specific episode. I rewatched the ending because I thought it was there, but he's actually the polar opposite right at the end (chiding the old man for being so alright with the deaths of those who had been with them on that episode's wild ride)... but I *know* that at some point in that episode (or maybe in that series before if not that actual episode), if I rewatch it completely I may find it, he coldly responds to someone else over the death of an individual with absolutely no emotion, no interest, and lost my loyalty to the character. I couldn't see him as the Doctor if he didn't give a damn that someone died. It's not uncommon for him to pretend he doesn't care, but he's usually quite bad at it and shows the cracks *somehow* but he doesn't do that in that series and it really bothered me.
Overall, honestly, I found the series boring, but that was the breaking point for me and why I haven't returned to the series since, except to try and rewatch the 9th, 10th and 11th Doctors here and there.
@@pinkperfectpeach7544 "His nonchalance for ‘small’ deaths is unsurprising considering all that he’s witnessed"
You act like that wasn't the case for the 9th Doctor. Yet he didn't turn out to be an old asswipe. It is part of the Doctor's character, the core of his personality that never changes (modern Who anyway), to give a shit about the deaths of individuals. He may hide it or he may pretend otherwise, but to outright not give a fuck isn't in the Doctor.
And second, as I already said I have watched him, I just haven't watched it all. I lost steam and gave up.
Plus now that it's not on Amazon Prime Video I have no way of watching it. Not going to go out and buy it on the hopes I might appreciate it this time around, that's for fuckin' sure.
Clara's folly was trusting the doctor too much. She became almost exactly like him and that lead to her death.
I have to disagree with you on one thing, I know quite a few people that DO talk like that. Sadly not all of them are kids.
I hated a number of things about the episode, not the least of which being the "modern pharmaceuticals suppress true vision" trope. I also remember this episode as being cringey and preachy environmentalist garbage. It's groan-inducing in that it's a transparent piece of propaganda where the fiction is not the focus but merely a tool of the writer
i always found this episode enjoyable, Its just such an interesting concept, and good execution. With some not so suttle comentary
The Gunfighters is one of my favourite Hartnell serials.
It shouldn't be a hot take that we don't tell people not to take their meds. I also think it might be a little dangerous, for some people with mental health conditions have a hard time separating reality from fiction, so hearing someone on TV tell them not to take their meds is just plain irresponsible. If you can't write something good without degrading mental illness, you shouldn't be writing at all.
Where was the vashnenarada?
I feel the same. Its just OK. I don't hate many episodes in doctor who tbh. I think the worst episode is orphan 55.
My biggest issue with the episode is the "humanity will forget" line, ¿how dumb are the humans in this show that they forget any odd events?
The main problem I had with this episode was exactly the same as with Kill the Moon - the central premise and explanation just shattered my suspension of disbelief. If you can put that aside, both episodes are average at worst. But come on, The Web Planet and The Gunfighters are great!
Hands down I think 'Empty child' was the worst episode ever.. Every 5 seconds threw out the episode some child says 'Are you my mummy?' By the end of the episode I was yelling at the TV, 'Oh God... SHUT UP!' The Weeping angles were used way WAY WAY too much in some episodes. You could site the same things for the Darleks , but they were not in every other episode. I grew up with dr who from the fourth Doctor on.