Long Tube Vs Shorty Headers
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มิ.ย. 2024
- Learn the different performance characteristics of the two most common header styles: long-tube (full-length) and shorty headers. Carl explains how each header design can improve your vehicle performance. www.summitracing.com/redirect...
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I like how at 3:15 he says "if you have questions, ask them in the comment section below" but then not a single reply to any of the questions.
If it's about the #exhaustpipe, I might be able to help you
Even if they did answer your question it would be wrong.I have emails of them arguing with me, trying to tell me my 92 f150 has rear disk breaks. They are drums, I even sent a picture of the drums to the idiot and he said that's not a 92 f150. They are about as useful as a bag of dicks
Chris Lesemann cause they have a bunch of 20 year old guys with no common sense working with them
@@Akhazmat907 as useless as your spelling teacher. Hahaha
@@demogorilla ha ha. I remember that night. I was drunk and still pissed off from the night before, when that happened. Actually I'm pretty sure my English teacher would smack me in the back of the head.
Cmon y’all this is the first TH-cam video I’ve seen in a long time that got straight to the point without an entire life story and history of the channel. Good job dude!
Can y'all turn the music off. No need to be headbanging while learning this stuff
What I can't hear you, I'm headbanging
Ask and destroy lol
Would you like it to be the same rap bullshit on every fucking car vid?
@@user-nb5pl1kj8t Wow you got butthurt over a funny comment lmao
@@Brandon-mf5uh nobody gives a shit about your challenger, another typical " hey check out the cold start on my 392, dont it sound bitchen?" Just fuckin with all these boards playing shit music and cold starts. Reminds me when we were kids saying " check out those tits"
Wish it would go back to that. What do you think about that butthurt Brandon 392??
I put shorty headers on my 90 k1500 and did get a "seat of the pants" performance increase over the stock manifolds. It is a tow vehicle so I need the low end torque and bottom end. So for the cost of replacement I am very happy. Not to mention the installation was a breeze.
Shorties do have easier bends than cast manifolds and they alsonhave larger primaries typically than LT. for drivability shorties typically offer more benefit than LT especially in a truck where low end is more desired than top end. You will see an improvement below peak torque with shorties verses simply a higher number at peak torque with LT. it really comes down to how high your engine revs past peak torque and how often you drive past peak torque.
Completely false that shorties are better down low vs long tubes. Quality long tube headers that are appropriately sized for the engine, will outperform shorties at ALL rpm ranges.
wlabishler 1 yea but shortys will still help in the low end
@@nickwebb9937 to some extent. But it REALLY varies based on the engine we are talking about. Pretty much any late model v-8, comes stock with cast manifolds that are damn near shorties anyway. The GM LS based truck engines are a great example of this. Shorties will gain almost nothing, if they do actually gain anything. Longtubes can be a pretty obvious change, assuming they are appropriately sized. I personally would not go through the effort of swapping out the manifolds, unless you have one that is cracked for instance. In that case, you have to pull stuff apart anyway, no harm in replacing the cast parts with some short tubes. I have done this very thing for that reason. More recently, I put some longtubes on a Vortec Max 6.0, the difference was pretty big. The most noticeable part was actually under the curve, not at peak.
wlabishler 1 yea I put shortys on my 91 c1500 it helped a bit but the manifolds on it were very restricted
wlabishler 1 it all comes down to application. On my 86 Bronco here in California shorty’s are my best bet. I can’t stroke my motor or do much to it at all aside from heads and a mild cam (my efi is antique and I have smog to deal with). Sure they more closely resemble manifolds, especially in newer cars, but 80’s motors were literally strangled to death. Shorties will be a huge upgrade over my stock manifolds and it lets me still run my cats and everything from a stock location, and I get better torque over stock.
Vacuum scavenging.. very interesting. Thanks for the info! Will probably be a long while before I look into getting any of these.
I put zoomies on my 2.3L ranger. They stick out of the fender on the passenger side and are about 20 inches long. Don't know if it did anything for power, but it sounds badass!!
I've got tuned shorties on my 2015 SS 1/LE, love the low end. I've often wondered if I should have done the long tubes - now I think I made the right move. GREAT explanation. It's still on the stock exhaust from the mid back, but I do like the sound, don't think I'll ever go full aftermarket. Chevy did start adding the X-pipe on the 2016s and newer, so I am getting ready to do that. Looking forward to the possible scavenge gains and the sound!
Thank you for watching, Nick!
I’m with you man. I have shorties on a Saleen S281 and the Low end torque will glue you to your seat. I did lose on highways gains but there’s something special about hitting 70 mph in second gear in 5 seconds!
Thanks for explaining it in simple english
Thanks Carl for clearing that up.
Thanks for watching, Spencer!
Great video! Straight to the point. Thank you!!
Thank you for watching!
I've had a set of long tubes on my '68 C10 327 since 2006 when I had rebuilt my motor.
Fortunately I had plenty of room to install them. Never had an issue overheating the starter. At the 2:20 mark I've scraped my header flanges at times, and my truck is at stock height. I'll have to replace my headers with the short tubes or a set of ram horns when I perform the 4/6 drop.
Thank you for watching, Robert!
great video short and to the point !! Thank you !
You can help the shorty tubes scavenge better by putting a fueling pinch in the header tubes with in about 6 to 8 in of the cylinder head. I've seen it done with a lot of success especially on things like Harley engines.
What is a fueling pinch?
Awesome explanation!
Long tube makes more power! Shorty's are good for fitment problems.
Brian Samuels long tube give low end power cause they flow better. That already gives more power and I never had to remove my starter to put headers on my 83 k5 blazer
thomas hayes did you notice more low end power with long tubes? They said that short tubes are for low end power but I want long tubes because I want more power at high rpms and I don’t want to loose low end power. :-)
So what's good for torque then in a 85 C30 with a big block? Needs to be set up for smog system btw.
@@SOU6900 just get 1-3/4" long tubes for the 454. You can get them with a 02 bung for the sensor. This is the header you want trust me.
@@jrod264winmag but she doesn't use an o2 sensor...
Thanks Carl -- very informative.
Thank you for watching, Roger!
I just bought some hedman shorties for my 05 Yukon. Hopefully i will be satisfied when I install them Saturday
How did install go?
@@treenutz360 He dead. Car jack failed and it fell on him.
Bobbys Dad yup R.I.P.
On my Mustangs I noticed way more torque. More power at the top end from the long tube headers. I've had multiple cars with each and if I ever build another car it will definitely be long tube.
Even more power buy swapping in a bow tie ;)
You know your serious when you run long tube headers!!
Do you have a video about high flow catalytic convertors?
Awesome informational educational video experience Y'alls
Straight to the point I like him
Thanks for watching !
I have longtube hookers headers on my 1977 torch red vette.On older cars headers are sick.I would not put them on a modern car,My car is 44 years old,I also put on a high performance exhaust manifold,and flowmaster 40 mufflers.It sound awesome.added about 22 more horsepower,but i did it for the sound,the sound rocks the house for sure.thanks russ.
Thank you for your feedback, Russell! I bet that does sound nice.
*PTSD FLASHBACK* after seeing the Driver's side shorty header on the right and remembering my SBC S10 square body days with the steering shaft that had to go in between the header tubes and learning the hard way that I should have also installed solid motor mounts rather than old rubber x-member side mounts (huge pee shiver...rr...rrr...)
Love this video.
Thank you for watching!
@@SummitRacing omg so informative! The day I finally buy my dream Camaro ZL1 I will consider summit racing.
I’ll go for shortys. My long tubes keep heating my starter. And cooking my wires
sal alvarez I just got shortys
What kind of car u got? Will it do that to my 97 camaro?
@erik torres Don't drive in the rain or in water. Problem solved.
@@kenshinhimura9387 If it's even sitting out overnight moisture will build up.
@@booniekc heres the deal if your headers run close to the starter they make self stick heat rejection mat. While your starters out install it around the starter motor. You can also get fiberglass like material made into a tube you can slip over wires that run near the headers. You can make a heat sheild out of some old coffee cans or soup cans. The thing is to look at how close stuffs going to be and fix it before you melt stuff or heat soak your starter.
I like this.
He should have mentioned, the more an engine is built the more important it becomes to use high quality long tube headers, I've been building 600 horse 2nd gen LT1road racing engines, the build is not complete until a good set of long tube headers go on.
Looks like I wasted money on shorty headers. Oh well. The deeper tone to my exhaust and the better response in the low end is quite nice though
Tony 3.7 I've got a 3.7 as well. Don't worry. MPT says that shorties do add airflow.
u didnt waste your money. where do you spend most of your driving rpm at?? not at the top end so u are getting what u paid for. long tubes are good if u drive your car wide open a lot, other than that u dont get the benefit of the long tube headers. just my opinion for an everyday driver shorties of mid length is the way to go
Sean Hamre thanks! Yeah I mean I never even go to the track or anything I just daily drive and occasionally I’ll race someone but it’s literally nothing above 60 mph anyway. If I do it’s just red light races from a stop
Sorry noob question but what does low end mean here is that referring to low rpm?
Santos Guerra yes low end rpm's
I’ve been looking for some headers for a 94 f150 with the 300 inline 6. Does summit carry any?
02 Silverado 1500 4wd. Dailey driver. Plan on installing a 222/224 cam, and upgrading timing chain, lifters, pushrods, rockers, springs, intake, and throttle body. Also plan on installing a cold air intake. I don't drive wide open hardly. Would shorties be better for me?
Hi, thanks for this informative video. I want to ask, do stainless steel headers and exhaust pipes give better performance increase over those non-stainless pipes or are those just for looks/aesthetics? Thank you!
Having trouble finding a good fit for headers for a 351 fe in a 1963 galaxie. Thoughts?
Would it make sense to get a cam optimized for high RPM if I get a shorty header and if i got a long tube headers i would want a cam optimized for low rpm power?
Given that the shorty headers provide less pulse vacuum internally, would it be a good idea to increase the diameter of the exhaust system from 2.5 to 3.0 inches to provide better top end?
I'm about to ask for shorty headers the high flow cats go with my dual set no 🐈 X pipe 2 super 10s I'm slowly working on my truck
For my 4.6 2v ford which one to I wanna order from your website? I'm doing a light NA build and wanna do a full dual exhaust
If you are doing it for more power for towing/hauling, I would recommend the shorty.
If you are doing it for performance, I would recommend the full length.
All this is great news for older less complicated engines and car systems, but for those new cars which have fuel injection systems and have a lot of electrical systems under the hood, you need to consider what benefits you will get and what the cost of those benefits will be after changing the factory headers to 4 into 1's or Try y headers, in fact the best ones to use is based on how you drive the new car, so basically if you want more HP down low range ie: 1,500 to around the 4 K mark then use try y headers or shortys, but if your going to track days a lot or street drags, then 4 into 14 would be best, but dont forget, then most tunner places will say you need 4 into 1 headers, but what they dont tell you is they will tune your engine to the headers and thus you engine will make approx 50 HP at the rear wheels for a new Chevy SS for example, but also they dont tell you you need the rest of the system as well, meaning the CATS and CAT back system installed as well, but in reality you will get just as much HP just by a tune of the same engine, they will not tell you this because the business is about selling the headers and also they do not tell you that the headers need ceramic coating due to the extreme heat under the hood and how close your electrical system,s are to the headers especially the chevy Ss which has electrical steering system. So please make sure if your going to get Headers for your car to kook if the model comes out with factory performance headers for the same make and model of your car, like for example the holden SS o chevy SS has HSB or holden special Veichacl which then you can by the HSV headers which come out with TRY Y headers on some models and will give your just as much performance but cost you only 1/4 of the price and specially if get the same try y headers from HSV and have them ceramic coated :)
Have you made a video on the benefits of shorty headers vs stock manifolds? You said those perform more like stock, but are they worth buying aside from looks alone?
I have a 2010 ford f150 5.4 with a flowmaster catback dual exhaust and a K&N 57 series cold air intake. I'm curious if I could do long tube headers with this configuration or should I stick to shorty headers? I'm also going to do a tune with this header install.
Are the shortys gonna bring the thunder or will they sound the same as stock manifolds ? 2017 5.7 hemi, already thundering but could use more
Should be a little louder. But its really more about the rest of your exhaust
thanks for the videos it seems like the only downside for long tube headers is getting them to fit
No the biggest issue is with long tubes you either have to remove the cats or move them which on vehicles newer than -73 i think is illegal
How do you determine the collector size on a short header for a small block?
Which would be better for a 429 cj in a 79 f100? Consider the big block won’t be revved to the moon in order to get max output
I always wanted long tube headers but my car is low and also they might not fit my h-pipe. I was going to get shorty headers because I already have no catalyst. What would my best option be?
LC engineering built my long tube headers for my Tacoma No mods to exhaust bolt on easy.
What header and exhaust set up would you recommend for a 96 k3500 with a 5.7 in it? I'm doing a cold air intake and high flow fuel pump. I may do a cam later down the road.
So as a stand alone upgrade, the shorty header won't do much over the factory exaust manifold?
I have a 2014 Camaro SS
On modern cars not so much. Only because modern Manifolds are pretty good. On Old muscle cars it's a huge difference like 20+hp/ torque.
They will look good on your car. and they do tend to increase low end torque on most cars.
I think the Summit guy just wants you to spend more money. Long tubes suck for speed bumps and driveways.
The way it was explained to me not too long ago is that before computer modeling and flow profiling this was a general rule and if one stuck to it would generally do well. But it seems that with the advancement of technology the ability to design and build better flowing headers have made short style headers less of a handicap these days so much so that unless you are running an all out dragster a short style header should be all most people can truly benefit from. Am I misinformed?
D N , shortys provide lower rpm power, long tube work better mid to high rpm.
Check out Billy Nees. He runs NHRA n/sa with a grand prix with a 301 and has a few good articles on header and collector lengths.
Yea, for racing high rpm applications, I understand that, but a lot of guys put them on their street and on/off road vehicles. I am just saying for people who have vehicles that are dual purpose these days a good set of shorties should be fine right? Unless you are doing 7,000+ rpm regularly?
D N long tubes are great for MID to high rpm. Mid rpm is roughly 3000 rpm give or take high rpm is about 6-6500 rpm. Shortys are good for off idle to low rpm 1500-2000rpm. Do you spend a lot of time at at lower rpms in over drive? Or do you have a 4 speed with 4.10s and cruise at around 3000 rip'ems? Either choice is an improvemet, it all depends on your application and what you want.
Velocity is key for performance in I6 engines. Which do you recommend for a Jeep 4.0 stroker for velocity?
I would go with shorty headers both for ground clearance especially with portal axles etc and because low end power will be better for rock crawling and towing which. If you are looking for road racing performance I stead of off-road though it might be worth getting the long tubes.
Shorties would do good for that. And less hassle with clearance issues
That intro, I heard that v8 sound from rev heads phone app.
SilverHoof01
I agree
Can i connect shortie headers to stock exhaust? And is there a difference in sound between stock manifold and these 2 types?
I'm getting a 2.3l turbo coupe, what would you day the best way to go is?
My biggest concern is fitment on a 289 66 mustang coupe. I would go with the shortys if need be, but would prefer long tube. I have an AOD tranny in there, that creates a bit of a problem. What would you guys suggest?
So if I'm looking for more torque for a truck application (no Baja or racing, mainly for getting over stuff (overlanding)) would shorty headers meet the mark? Eventually considering force induction, but haven't crossed that road yet
Shorty header would meet your goals just fine if you're looking for improved low-end power. Adding a supercharger will dramatically increase power across the entire rpm range. It will also require improved exhaust flow, and you may want to consider using a header with larger primaries.
What headers are best for a truck that tows? About 3 days a week. Thanks in advance
I have a 1987 Chevy caprice ls with a 400 sbc would the long tube headers fit my car
so if i change my manifold and ported throttle and it gives me mid range and top end gains do you go with short headers for the idle to mid range power up front or long and basically just gain everything from mid to top end ?
what about for a 62 Impala? what kind of headers are available for those models im keeping it stock but more power
I have a Silverado w a 3” drop in the front and 6” in the back would this be a problem since I’m lower
Haha for sure. My 90 cought the collector on a speed bump.
How big should my mid pipe be if I add shorty headers?
So i should go long tube headers and a x pipe for my 03 Mustang GT RS1?
Hello! My name is Nicholas and I currently own a 2011 Ram 1500 Big horn. I have the hemi tick with either the lifter issue or broken exhaust bolts. I am currently looking into replacing the manifold with long tube headers. Do you have any advice as to how to prevent the bolts from breaking or any recommendations? Do you have any recommendations on any long tube headers?
Are shorty headers about the same as the stock exhaust on a 1997 thru 2004 c-5 corvette ?
Got any smog headers for a 454 powered 85 C30?
what is a good set up for a 2002 ws6 tubes set for that year trans am. I just bought this car with only 27k on it.
I have a 1995 dodge ram 1500 with the 360 v8 do you sale headers for the mentioned truck. I am currently looking for long tube headers if that helps at all
What do you guys recommend for a 1996 Chevy Silverado c1500 5.0 I don’t really know what camshaft to buy and if I should buy long tubes or shorties ? Let me know
Hi carl i am just wondering if what style of muffler is recommended for long tube header for best power gain?
I own a 2008 Chevy Silverado Max Vortec. It is currently tuned and has K/N cold air intake with a Magnaflow Muffler. Should i go for long tube or shorty headers? Oh also it is one of those dropped down trucks.
Would shorty headers be ok to run on my daily driver bone stock 02 Suburban? I live in town so there is hardly ever any full throttle driving.
What if you are planning on straight piping your exhaust. Which headers would be better?
following
Long tube
Yes
Zoomies
Long tubes = More expensive but better Performance
Shorties = Lower cost but only good for appearance & stock replacement
Stock replacements ? So people buy shortys thinking their getting performance
Parts when their just replacing the OEM style headers?
There has to be some benefit for shorties other then placement issues.
are for just looks.
Derpy Derp maybe 3-5 hp but I've been researching aftermarket parts for about 4-5 years..especially since I've had a couple of mustangs (2 currently). I've talked with professionals as well as other car enthusiast. If one really wants aftermarket headers for performance, long tubes is the way to go. Depending for what vehicle, it could range from $200-1,000) and get gains (again depending what vehicle) from 15-30 HP. Shorties would open up your exhaust system...but nothing like long tubes. And if you happen to go for some...go ceramic headers because they will last you longer then ordinary chrome finish.
CRUZ_GT chrome don’t get you home.
Wow that’s awesome information. I bought headmen headers for my 289 and they are awesome I can feel the difference when I hit the gas from when I had the OEM factory headers on. Huge difference. I can imagine the open ports the long tube give. I will defiantly get some
CRUZ_GT I just got my grandpa's truck running it's a GMC 1998 Sierra 2500 350 motor what kind of headers should I get to fit the Flowmaster super 44
Leon Garza long tubes , you'd need to weld the Flowmaster to your midpipe (basically switch your stock muffler to that Flowmaster one) but your midpipe might be smaller due to the long tubes
I have a 2005 GMC 8.1 496 big block 2wd extended cab. I'm unsure what best fits my needs for daily driver ,towing enclosed trailer with 2000lbs around large city. Any recommendations?
Summary. Long tubes arent always bolt on but make more mid range to high end power. Shorties are better for fitment and some low end torque
I feel with a 3” exhaust the shorty headers would help create a little more back pressure. Thoughts?
Hi Eddie, On what application?
Thanks for watching!
I have a challenger really low which one will fit better???
I'm thinking shorties and offroad X pipe. Seems like it might be a happy medium
Looking into shortys vs current long tube Hookers for my '66 Stang. The car has the shorter 1" drop coils and the problem is the collectors scrape the wider speed bumps and they're kinda close to the fuel and brake lines. Any suggestion on brands?
A shorty header should free up some ground clearance.
www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/headers/year/1966/make/ford/model/mustang/header-style/shorty?N=header-style%3Ashorty
Yes those bumps fuckin me up too
i have a 75 ford bronco and i want to know what would be better, long or short?
I’ve got an 05 Yukon Denali 6.0, it has a fair amount of bottom end performance and is decent through mid range and top end. My only concern is would the long tubes heat my starter or fry my wires?
It will depend on how close the headers are to the starter and the wires. You may have to use a heat shield for the starter or wrap it.
Generally, you would want to use a better quality set of aftermarket wires that are designed to withstand the higher temps.
I acquired a 68 mustang with a 289 and Hedman long tube headers. The car also came with new exhaust pipes, 2 1/4 inch, an H-pipe and a couple flowmaster mufflers. The issue is the H-pipe is not even close. I suspect the exhaust, which is labeld 'classic mustang' was meant for standard exhaust manifolds. What's the recommendation on X-pipe or H-pipe or straight pipes with long tube headers like these Hedmans? I am having trouble zero'ing in on something that fits. I'd like to bolt on, of course, but I'm just looking for advice on how to proceed. Of course, the exhaust is not on the car, and as I crawled under to make things fit, it seemed more like a game of Tetris than an exhaust system meant for this car.
Trying to install an exhaust system on your back is certainly no fun. But, add in the complexity of making various parts fit and align properly while maintaining good ground clearance, can actually be worse than a challenging game of Tetris! Our advice to start would be to find a local exhaust or hot rod shop with a lift, that specializes in exhaust work and can make adjustments on the fly. Secondly, X pipes will always make more horsepower, especially on a short stroke, higher revving motor such as your 289. H pipes do help and are an upgrade over just two straight pipes but, scavenging is the key and an X pipe coupled with a good set of equal length headers is hard to beat. If money isn't an issue and there isn't a local shop in town to help, some manufacturers have complete systems with all the parts (including headers) that are designed to work together for the easiest installation by the hobbyist. Pypes would be one of those companies.
I have a 4.0 v6 ford ranger 2001 I want to change the headers I want to know which one are recommended for my 4.0
I have a 2015 Dodge Charger RT with Flowmaster Outlaw Catback which would be the best headers?
What other upgrades have you done
Which exhaust headers would I use for 1970 ford thunderbird with big block 429 7.0?
Have a 67 base model Cougar with single exhaust. Don't know much about it. I dont race the the car but looking for little more power and better sound. It's a 289 4 b. What would you suggest?
My question is how come they don't end long tube headers like the shorty or lengthen the shorty a few inches more
Some vehicles you can find midlength headers.
Any suggestions on shorties on a 4.3 vortec? Mostly daily it with the occasional my trucks faster argument with the buddies and you know we gotta check and see😂😂
We are not sure of the application, but here is a link to the shorty headers for a 4.3.www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/headers/make/chevrolet/engine-size/4-3l-262/engine-family/gm-v6/header-style/shorty?N=header-style%3Ashorty&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending
What about mid headers to full length whats the differemce of them
I got a 18 Chevy impala and i put a 87 vortec 350 in it what kind of headers do u think i should go with i like the long tubs
Have an 06 charger Daytona Rt, cant decide which would be better LT or ST?
I'm installing the long tube headers on a Nissan titan what can I do so it won't be that loud
What would be recommended for more low to mid range power out of a 5.4 2v f150, short or long tube?
The long tube header is always a better choice in every case if you have the room for them, brand is the next thing to worry about, a lot of China junk out there, do your research.
I have a 07 Chevy tahoe LTZ and I'm looking for the best performance headers and cat back exhaust system for more horsepower I been looking at the borla touring but I think the sound is to low ? Any advice
Just go talk to your local exhaust shop. Normally straighter and shorter will give you more horsepower.
As far as headers are concerned 4-2-1 long tubes are the best if your vehicle can fit them
I have 57 Ranchero w/390FE. The stock header just barely clear the steering gear box. I want long tube do I have to go custom or is there a long tube that will clear my steering box
Hi Glenn, we do not see anything for that application.
I would like to know if you have a shorty set of headers and total exhaust system for a 1992 Ford 150 2 wheel drive 5.0 engine.
You find something?
I am only considering shorty headers because dorman cast iron manifolds are onlyblasting about 2 yrs and cracking. I dont want a louder exhaust. Will my exhsust be louder if I bolt these to my stock exhaust?
1st Gen Tundra, no lift, mostly used for truck bed camping, and to replace factory broken manifold or short factory header? Should I go long or short? 4.7 2000 model
I have a 93 fleetwood all stock . I want to change or oem every thing under the hood and under the car , any suggestions?
Hi there, I need to place an o2 sensor for my efi. If I use short headers will I neet to position the sensor fuher down the merge of the tubes compared to stock or long headers? Thanks
So will you get any Horsepower from Short tube headers