Star Wars Vs Star Trek: The Empire INVADES the FEDERATION!! Part 1 of 2
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ย. 2024
- What happens when the wormhole near Deep Space 9 suddenly 'reroutes' through time and space, leading to another galaxy far, far away!
This is part 1 of a two part scenario. This is NOT watered down with geeky techno-stats - this is a story about what would happen!
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A stormtrooper and a redshirt get into a firefight.
The stormtrooper misses.
The redshirt dies anyways.
And La Forge accidentally gets kidnapped :P
I love this meme.
Scotty is the best, though.
I get your joke but red shirts don't have the force so it is unlikely that the storm trooper would miss.
Lol women can't be engineers dumb ass
Star Fleet ships can enter warp space almost immediately. Imperial ships must make long calculations to enter hyperspace. That was a very interesting observation.
They can also fire torpedoes at warp... which begs the question of Warp Strafing.
Star Fleet are also far more agile under impulse drive than Imperial ships. Star Fleet ships typically have full coverage with their phaser banks. And higher effective ranges. But the most critical questions (Imperial weapons vs Star Fleet shields and phasers vs Imperial shields) can't be answered, because we have no comparable data.
Well, Yup, and then, there's the FACT that Trek Ships can TURN in Warp, Use Transporters in Warp, Fire Phasers in Warp, and, Cloaking is sometimes available. Star Wars uses Turbo-lasers. Lasers, by definition, are Sub-Light. Hmm, so, IF a TREK ship STAYS IN LOW-Warp, and can Fire & turn at will, yet not be fired upon.... Um, yeah, figured this out in '79. Even NX-01 is a threat to Imperial Ships, in a Defensive Role. While the Empire can 'zip' from spot-to-spot, they'll lose upon Contact if the Trek captains are savvy to their tactical strengths.
Should you play SFB, you'd "get it" immediately. The Empire has no defense against either the Hydrans, nor Romulans, let alone the Borg.
The Star wars ships must not make long calculations the also can jump directly.
@@larrydavison8298 it's god that there aren't any datas because the datas would only make Dispute.
The Ferengis would immediately sell the Death Star !
@Teja Phani Quarks cousin has his own moon.
That's no moon. It's a space station.
Bidding war with the Hutt*
Michael Pielorz HAHA TRUE
When you’re right you’re right.
@
Ferengi Bussinessman:We missed a lot of times where we can sell a friggin superweapon,this time we cannot let go of the chance!
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This is presumably post Dominion War. They would be facing a much more wary and cautious Federation.
TNG-era federation would probably get stomped, but Post-TNG federation is insanely strong. Also, if Section 31 finds out about the Jedi knights, all is lost for palpatine.
@@hobomike6935 It depends on the ship, TNG era. Galaxy Class would hold up well, but a rickety old Excelsior Class? That is a different proposition.
Then there is the consideration of the captain of the ship in question, who would likely be more interested in trying to negotiate and make friends, than seeing the Imperial ship as something that could potentially blow it up.
The mindset of the Federation in the TNG era is crippling in a situation like this.They had completely forgotten that there are things out there ready and able to wipe you out. The Borg and Dominion were painful and brutal reminders.
Ummm warp can operate in a gravity well so the interdictor ships won't be effective in capturing a warp vessel.
David Lorier-May you are correct.
Yeah. I thought that interdictor thing was off.
Agreed. That is already established in canon. Klingon Birds of Prey often enter large gravity wells and then engage warp. Using large gravity wells as 'sling shots' for time warps is also common. So a gravity well is no problem for a Federation ship.
I think the main reason he tried to use interdictors as a viable option is because without that, it would make the battle very one sided. Once Starfleet ships realize the Empire doesn't have warp drive, they would just engage their ships while at warp. Starfleet ships have sensors that can operate at warp speed, so they could just perform FTL passes of Empire ships and fire volleys of photon torpedoes at them. The Empire would have no counter for this since their weapons and sensors don't operate at FTL speeds.
@@Diomedes01 I think you mean the Romulin War Birds that use a quantum singularity as their warp engine, which creates a huge gravity well, the Klingon bird of prey uses a conventional warp drive (see Star Trek IV the Voyage Home)
Star Trek 2009 ending: Urr... seriously?
Mistake number one.. sending a Klingon to a diplomacy meeting
Mistake number 2: Not letting him just kill Tarkin.
Gotta have a Klingon to play the good cop bad cop game.
Sort of the same logic as the Gunfight at the OK Corral... "Say! Let's take a hot-headed, drunk dentist with us... oh! and don't forget to give him the shotgun!'
Mistake number two... sending Jar-jar.
Seeing as the Empire was able to be overthrown by some magical hick farmer, a smuggler, a girl, and their friends, a war against an organized government would have a similar effect.
Exactly
They had a lot of help... from a tribe of cute teddy bears... 🐻
Ha, totally agree. Just watching this today and was going to say something similar.
Not exactly, the rebellion could never win through head on war but instead relied on hit and run tactics to win. The same is most likely true for the Federation as well. If they’re smart about it of course they could defeat the Empire but unfortunately they don’t know much about their enemy and therefore cannot make the most strategic decisions because of that.
Xerofire exactly, the rebels aren’t incompetent
Step 1: Have Starfleet use the special wormhole DS9 protects
Step 2: Lure the Imperial fleets in
Step 3: Have the Emissary tell the gods to wish them into oblivion
Step 4: Profit
I like the last part
...then we would have to fight Star Destroyers in a new task force in Star Trek online, since that is where the dominion fleet ended up...still a win though I guess.
@@ryanjones2297 That'd be fun. Win for the player!
@@ryanjones2297 STO is even more advanced, so I give it a win.
Now where is my Enterprise J?
@@sigea5397 Found the Ferengi.
There was a TNG episode where unshielded fighters are destroyed rapidly. Phasors wreck unshielded tie fighters by the legion.
Problem is that TiEs are highly agile fighters and federation phasers would have really hard time to catch them, and if you add to the fry TiE bombers armed with Ion torpedoes...
Asheer Federation sensors and computer technology allow them to hit ships moving at warp. The Picard maneuver had a smaller starship moving at maximum warp, detected by compression of gas, and was caught by a tractor beam from warp 9.9. Tie Fighters and tie bombers are moving less fast that warp speed.
Michael Chaney a federation ship can just Ram the Tie fighters and sustained no damage
Asheer Federation targeting systems can lock onto multiple targets at warp speed. I love Star Wars but the technology of Star Trek is two fleshed-out to make a real comparison. every Star Destroyer can have proton torpedoes beamed into their engine rooms end of scenario
In Voyager, the much smaller Intrepid class takes on 50+ fighters and trashes them. I think those were supposed to be shielded as well. They had to call in backup near the end because the fighters eventually overwhelmed their shields, but I think that goes to show how effective ST capital ships are with dealing with small craft (very).
Of course, there's the question of whether or not SW fighters are even on-par with their ST equivalents....I'd say no. SW (fighters in particular) hasn't had many particularly impressive feats of durability or firepower in recent films or the TV show.
Tie fighters would be useless against a Starfleet ship. They have no shields, so computer controlled phaser accuracy would mop them up rather quickly
Ryebread095 but let’s not forget their is almost always over 200 tie fighters when they are brought so the starfleet ship will still win but that ship will be heavily damaged
@@michaelboots0314 Normal Tie Fighters don't have the ability to directly harm normal federation vessels; ships like X-Wings are threats because they're armed with photon torpedoes that can overwhelm shields when fired consecutively. TIE Fighters are made to disrupt fighter squanders.
TIE bombers could be a threat, but they move much slower, still don't have shields, and are carried in smaller numbers.
More importantly, ships like the Enterprise move around a lot when engaged in a battle whereas Star Destroyers move very slowly and have slugging matches. I'm not sure the TIE Bombers would be effective against them.
Kai Creech while you are correct in all of your statements I would like to add that starfleet is not a militarized organization so maybe a hundred torpedos and 20 guns against minimum 200 fast moving ships I’m not saying the star fleet would lose I’m just saying those tie fighters would get a few good punches in
@@michaelboots0314 Is that still true? They pulled out a whole fleet of ships designed for war pretty quick in Picard.
Kai Creech I’m not sure I thought that’s what it was because I remember herring somewhere that they were far better than modern humans as that they were all just big and happy and explored so they may have a powerful navy or not I don’t know because I only watched one of the movies
Its worth mentioning that the Federation has the Doomsday Device in mothballs. Seven of Nine and Spock have been able to activate and pilot it in the past. It could potentially eat the entire Empire fleet
That would be an UBER last resort thing. Like, The Death Star has crossed over and is near the Core worlds of the Federation and has already blown up Axanar last resort.
And you didn't even mention the Q
@@kipp1231 We dont talk about q
Every federation starship has the weapons to glass a planet.
@@kipp1231 he'd just take away luke skywalker's powers and pick up worf from a klingon meditation planet and make them wrestle, arm-wrestle, etc. For every game a side loses, a random homeworld gets blown up.
Pretty good overall, but a few serious issues:
-You forget Trek can fight at warp, aside from force users SW would simply lack fire control systems to target a ship moving FTL.
-Trek ships are able to warp within a gravity well, interdictor cruisers would not hamper a warp field
-SW fightercraft, especially unshielded T.I.E. series craft, would be very vulnerable to: wide beam phasers, being smashed by a ships deflector dish, and photon torpedoes would be able to act as area of effect weapons able to kill entire squadrpns at a time.
-U.S.S. Voyager, a pre Dominion war vessel, survived a star going nova (barely) in the Q civil war episode, nothing in SW suggests a fraction of this shield power.
-In DS9 we witness a Romulan/Cardassian fleet bombard a planet thought to be the founder homeworld, we get an in screen representation of their weapon power, and while we never see SW capitol warships do something similar on screen without a superweapon and can assume their orbital bommbardments are strong as well, this still puts trek ships in a heavier weapons class, aided by the fact that most torpedoes in trek use antimatter for explosive power, this puts photon torpedoes and other trek torps at a power level far above the strongest nukes in real life, giving them a measurable power yield.
-SW ships dont need lanes fpr hyperspace, they simply need to avoid gravity fields strong enougj to disrupt the functioning of their hyperdrive, that is the point of an astronavigation droid and a navigational computer, they plug all charted objects into it, and it calculates a course, in legs, that avoids gravity fields, thats why interdictor cruisers are so effective.
Good overall, hell no, poor yes.
He done everything to make SW universe win, to a point to castrate most of ST universe power (transporters, photonic shock waves, viral warfare, various torpedo types, and so on). The most hilarious things is; quote: "Swarms of Tie Fighter take out fed ships easily" lol. Next is only empire use tractors... another lol. And no, federation recons don't communicate to main base that empire is hostile and wish for war... sorry but that is pure idiocy, and don't counting Fed and Empire different fire ranges is... i don't know what to say, its beyond idiocy.
Edit: He also negated or don't mention or purpose, that the biggest SW star destroyer flaw except speed and maneuverability... is no weapons on the rear, while ST ships has 360 weapons firing arcs.
@@rohenthar8449 I believe when he says "swarms of tie fighters easily take out federation ship's" he includes tie bombers. Even if you assume standard federation torpedos are more powerful than SW bomb's, they would still have the capacity to take out federation phaser arrays. "But shields" you cry. Now, I can't give you exact values, but it is canonical that star destroyers have over 100 heavy turbolazers, weapons which definitely have a heavy punch, even if you are completely biased towards ST turbolazers have power levels comparable to 1/10 of a standard phaser, although I'd put the value closer to 1/3. Federation ships in full combat mode can be destroyed by phaser fire, indeed we see a Borg cube get severely damaged by concentrated phaser and torpedo fire of several federation ships, despite borg shields being able to adapt to make themselves nearly immune to damage from such weaponry. Because of this, it's quite obvious that federation shields would crumple under the firepower of star destroyers, leaving the ships hull vunnerable to bombardment.
To be perfectly honest, it's a difference in format that gives the empire the real advantage. Star wars is focused on warfare, the empire is a massive evil dude with overwhelming firepower, and basically everything about star wars ships reflects that. Star trek, whilst it has its fair share of conflict, is far more interested in exploration, science, and human/alien dynamics than SW. The ships and politics reflect this. As such, SW has simply overwhelming firepower and overwhelming numbers. Star trek couldn't defend against that. ST would do inordinately well against SW, doing far more damage than the ships design would imply they would do, but it's like sending a battalion of Napoleonic infantry against a US marine (to give an easily recognizable example). a single machine gun can send more lead down range in 10 seconds than a redcoat can in an hour, but when theirs a thousand Redcoats, the Marine would have to perform a miracle to get out alive (unless surrender?). never mind win.
@@Santisima_Trinidad "But shield" you cry... that was not nice. My statement was to the material, when author deliberate omitted most ST powers and also deliberately disabled some more (transporters in BOTH universes), as you yourself did.
In truth i said this many times, there is no real comparison, cuz there are two different universes build on fundamental different laws, one on power of science (or its try to be as much realistic as possible), other on the power of beliefs (that force is power to be used, and not a force that use you like a... marionette, yeah im Kreia ideology supporter). That's why there is no comparison for now, but if someone must do that, then be reasonable, and make all advantages, and disadvantages pointed truthfully FOR BOTH sides, but you and author, what you done... yep, you crippled Federation starships, and make they captains dumb hobos, and at the same time boosted empire to show, that they are superior. And that is what my post is about. I don't care about comparison, but about truth, which was much distorted, and showed in favor of the empire. That's all.
Ps: Oh, you said swarms of Tie Bombers, and this is the cure for them: th-cam.com/video/_PbtYTp5cTY/w-d-xo.html which, was omitted to boost Empire power, cuz after all, Tie-s are un-shielded.
@@Santisima_Trinidad Yeah, so Warzie ships are drummed to death with phaser fire hours before they can even come into visual range of Trek ships...where they can finally start trying to hit with excited compressed gas!
@@kevinwarner3771 and you honestly believe automatic pea shooters are more powerful than shots of compressed gas heated to higher temperatures than those found on the surface of the sun?
7:40 Why, if the Imperials already captured several Starfleet ships, do they then need to map the hyperspace routes, when that data should already be in the Starfleet data banks? Also, the Empire's fighters and bombers should not have posed much of a problem to Federation technology, in either galaxy.
9:59 _Another paradox._ How could the Empire defeat Starfleet in the Federation's Galaxy where everything works for Starfleet? In Federation galaxy, shouldn't the Empire be experiencing similar failures in their technology, as did Starfleet in the Empire's galaxy?
On your 1st point, the Imperials would need to map out hyperspace routes because the Federation DOESN'T use hyperspace for traveling. They have no data on the subject in their data banks.
@@benoitsigouin6705 actually they wouldn't need to Star wars ships don't rely on Hyperspace routes they can travel through space where there are no routes through many many small jumps a feat we see Star destroyers perform mutliple times in cannon as well as legends
. While this is vastly slower then normal Hyperspace travel it's still Magnitudes faster then warp travel
Actually, the Borg have efficient subspace routes akin to hyperspace routes. Also, the characteristic features of a potential hyperspace route may already be in a series of detailed subspace maps. A sufficiently robust algorithm could then convert the subspace mappings to yield probable Hyperspace lanes.
First point: The algorithm to convert subspace maps into hyperspace maps would need a sizable overlapping area to compare and study, even then the margin of error would be questionable and would be safer to just continue making new hyperspace maps from scratch.
Second point: Watch part two for what the Empire tries to use... not sure if it actually makes sense, but there is a tradeoff eventually!
@@christopherschmeltz3333 furthermore imperial ships can actually travel in placed without hyperspace routes. That's far slower then normal travel but still much faster then warp
Remember a Federation starship's maneuvering speed is faster than that of a tie fighter. Also 24th century starship's have an effective phaser range of about 0.5 million km. They could wipe out the fighters before even entering the star destroyer's sensor range, and easily outrun them at sublight, like a car to a pedestrian.
Even before that, a Starship could literally park outside the star destroyer's sensor range and bombard them into oblivion with no risk before even being noticed.
Just think of that conversation:
Why don't you have starfighters in the federation?
Our starships are faster and more maneuverable than your starfighters.
Jeez man, people clearly see the ridiculousness of warhammer 40k
fans making their universe OP by always saying TYRANIDS or EXTERMINATUS. Yet you make it seem like star trek ships are superior at stuff they clearly aren't, like in this case maneuvering like a space fighter. Many star fighter such as the vipers or x-wing can move more easily and dexterous than large treky
Ship.
Just because it's practically techno jargon with some root in science, doesnt mean the thing will be equivalent. Unless expressly shown or purposely mentioned. Especially if it's not in a realistic show for the time which Star Trek ISNT.
@@davidmason4244 I'm actually going to have to disagree with you, at least on the weapons range, given 21st century equipment. Modern military equipment has been following the trend of extending combat range for decades. Good examples are the phalanx weapons system the navy used from the 1960s that could completely destroy any incoming missiles or planes from several miles away. Ships could destroy you before you could even see them well enough to manually target your weapons. Battleship guns had firing ranges of 16ish miles during Vietnam, which is already farther than the turbo lazer range of Star Wars ships. Now, we have drones that can kill people from well outside visual range, while being controlled by people in a different country, we have manned aircraft that can attack from hundreds of miles away from the target, guided missile ships that can do the same. Remember, this is actual tech from the 20th and 21st century.
I don't think it's remotely unreasonable for a 23rd century starship the have a firing range of 90,000 km (TOS, Journey to Babel) or a 24th century ship to have a firing range of 400,000 km (TNG, the episode where Riker is working on the Klingon ship). It also seems completely logical for Star Trek ships to have dog fights that are fought entirely above the speed of light (Journey to Babel, again), given that that is the default speed of travel in the Star Trek universe.
You may be right about the maneuverability thing, but I don't think Star Wars ships are realistically fast for space travel, at sub-light speeds. Star Trek ships travel at a significant fraction of the speed of light when at full impulse, which is necessary to fly between planets that are light-hours apart. Star Wars ships don't seem to be capable of that.
Good points especially about longer range weapons in the modern day, and how they are on a trend of increasing range which is true considering the nature of warfare. The other statement about star trek ships being faster over all is also a good point, as some ships in sci fi move at different speeds to accommodate
Their settings. Though I still think that you might be over estimating the range and effectiveness of star trek weapons. Useing the same logic conventional weapons like those in BSG could strike 1,000 KILOMETERS away, which as a viewer I know thats not true even though their hundreds of years into the future like you pointed out. I still understand that's not the point of the show, and the world they operate in.
Same goes for Star Trek.
I have evidence for why BSG weapons dont hit 1000 kilometers away because
1. They fight at very close ranges relative to a real life space battle.
2. Their weapons have been shown to miss many times in the show.
And
3. It is not explicitly said in the show or more importantly shown to be case. ( same as how you cant say a star destroyer can attack at light minutes away even though some books on the legends have ssid so.) It just not realistic.
In the game Starfleet Command there were modifications you could make to your ship to carry 1 or several squadrons of fighters to defend against tie fighters plus you could also modify your weapons systems for missile launchers or pulse phasers giving great point defence and anti capital ship capabilities, especially with the advent of the quantum torpedo that was detrimental in defeating single Borg cubes. I'd say it's numbers vs tech and it actually leaves them pretty comparable to one another.
Then Q appears and makes the Galactic Empire dissapear by just a fingersnap LOL
Except for the fact that Q is a loose cannon who might just as likely make the Federation disappear. And far more likely sit back and do nothing other than taunt and distract the most valuable Fed Captains.
@@jameslarimer9211 But it's still possible.
I bet, he is responsible for the whole situation in the first place. (^_^)
Not a bad point per-say, but considering all the more dramatic and grandeur disasters faced by the Federation or other species that the Q , much less THE individual Q, stepped into to stop, it's actually doubtful that they or he would just randomly step in and fix things, unless they were becoming galactically unstable.
For that matter, it's even quite possible ONE of the Q or another powerful being caused this event with the wormhole as an experiment.
Q would probably check on the Empire themselves without Federation contact
The one thing no one ever takes into account when matching star wars vs star trek, is the range of the respective weapons. For example, the
SSD's manually aimed turbo lasers have an effective range of 5000 kilometers. But the enterprise's computer targeted phasers have an effective range of 300,000 kilometers and a torpedo range of 2.5 million kilometers. In short, a star trek ship would just fall back and pound an ssd into scrap from well outside it's engagement range.
Ok but the battle would not began that far away. If the Empire is smart thru would jump in range.
@@firstname9954 the empire is smarter than you think. they could bring interdictor cruisers with them to prevent warp and then use their powerful tractor beams to hold the fed ship in place. then a hail of turbo lasers and tie bombers could pound the fed ship into dust.
of course this is assuming a star destroyers tractor beam could hold the fed ship while the fed ship had its shields at max
@@firstname9954 eh, well. its fun, and its an excersize in critical thinking. that and its also a neat way to tell a story
also the weaponry in star wars tends to be lasers used to ignite tabina gas into plasma. star trek has shown plasma weapons to be highly effective.
given the amount of cannons on a star destroyer and and how many fighters there are and how fast they can fire, id say its possible for empire plasma weaponry to dent or bring down federation shields.
heck, the amount of turbolasers on a star destroyer would mean even if individually their firepower was low combined they could constinuously coat the federation ships shield with power draining plasma
it would give a battle tension if a fed ship had to becareful about incoming star destroyer fire, rather than just flying right through it. you could tell a better story that way.
@@tk5800thesecond it would be yamato vs a modern Arleigh Burke class destroyer. Yes, Yamato can get kill a modern destroyer quite easily if it can get close, if it can get close.
@@aldrinmilespartosa1578 oh absolutely. the canon reality is that Fed ships are way more manoeuvrable and powerful, they would have no trouble blowing up star destroyers. my want, my yearning is to find a way to tell a semi decent story, you have to "buff" star wars ships in order for them to survive long enough to throw some plasma at the fed ship
The thing is that despite their fighters, Federation ships would turn them into kindling. I don't believe TIEs are shielded. Federation phasers can be set to give point defense. Ships like the Galaxy Class with phaser arrays all over the ships would turn the TIEs into ashes. Another thing is that I don't believe Imperial Warships are designed to effectively target and shoot the much smaller and faster Federation ships. That's why the Imperials had trouble with the Millennium Falcon. Federation ships like the Akira, Miranda, Defiant, Norway, Nova, Saber, Intrepid, and Steamrunner would easily out maneuver slow and plodding Imperial capital ships. They'd just hang on the aft quarter of Imperial Star Destroyers (Where they are the least armed) and just shoot the hell out of them.
Also, the Federation has attack fighters and advanced shuttles of their own. You have wings of Peregrine attack fighters along with Runabouts and other small craft.
terrywest111 @ as well as the advanced Federation Valkyrie space superiority fighter...Loaded with advanced Starship killing weapons...Including small payload of quantum torpedoes, and the newer Mach 1 tetrion pulse Cannon, Mark 1 hellborne torpedo, etc....
Except that in every series capital ships in Trek are garbage against small craft.
Jay Richardson Federation starships are excellent against small craft like Star Wars fighters. We're talking about small unsheilded fighters. Not small STAR TREK style attack craft like say the Dominion Bug. Those things are a whole different animal.
There was an episode of TNG that explored this. They were attacked by several small unshielded craft that were firing lasers. The shields of the Enterprise weren't even phased and the phasers were able to take out a whole squadron of these ships in a single volley. Tie fighters would be useless against phasers. There are also several carrier and fighter ships in the Star Trek universe, so that could be taken on as well. Omni-directional phasers would destroy the pulse lasers in Star Wars.
I agree that the smaller Star Trek ships would be able to easily out maneuver anything that could generate enough firepower to crack their shields. The advanced sensors and pinpoint targeting of the ST ships would also be amazingly OP. Star Wars ships however are massive and would have a huge advantage if they could hit anything.
The Empire was beaten by Ewoks. Case dismissed.
Freakin Yatch 1 legion was defeated by a entire specie
Freakin Yatch "The Empire was beaten by Ewoks."
Yub yub!
Fun fact originally in.the script it was to be Kashhyyk an wookies but they couldn't find enough tall people to stand in so they used midgets an little snuggle bears lol
Lol Empire didn't fall after battle. Read books what destroy Empire was Empire after death of emperor. Was civil war with in the empire. How the first order came after
They got defeated because they were caught off guard and the plot, counter case dismissed
I think it's improbable that the laws of physics would suddenly change just because they're in another galaxy. If they were from a different dimension maybe, but the laws of physics are called laws because they are proven to be constant. I also don't think the Empire would have such an easy time with Federation ships.
Ehhh, we call them "Laws" because it is analogous to laws written by people, but the problem with that is people write laws that are different from race to race, country to country, planet to planet etc.
"Laws" of physics are presumably generated by the creation of the universe having unique effects and elements, among other space phenomenon that create a unique set of physical laws for that universe, so it is possible some laws may be "created" differently in another universe, but that is seriously reaching for scientific understanding we can't possibly research realistically at this current point in our scientific understandings.
no it’s not laws of physics it’s the mighty dollar if disney buys paramount or if these huge corporations merge
'I think it's improbable that the laws of physics would suddenly change just because they're in another galaxy.' - Why? We live in one small part of the Milky Way, and these are the 'laws' we (think we) know about from just this area. Things could be much different simply moving to another area of the galaxy we're in.
Hypothesis: The rules we think are in effect are (mostly) because of some subspace phenomenon occurring in our vicinity. It is possible to conclude that even such a basic 'bedrock principle' as the speed of light could be altered by that environment. C changes in various solids and even under the influence of various fields, so why would it not be possible to have it change - faster or slower - based on the rest of the galaxy (to say nothing of a galaxy far, far away) not having that background?
Agreed, but there's a way around it in context. In the NG episode "Force of Nature" it was established that warp drives affect subspace. This could affect universal constants, making for the differences in natural laws between the two galaxies. Or perhaps the Star Wars galaxy's being riddled with hyperdrive routes has had a similar effect-- or the presence of whatever's generating the Force has done so.
What you're assuming is Universal Uniformitarianism, that natural processes are the same at all times everywhere. We don't know that this is so because we, the real-life human race, have never been outside our own solar system, let alone our own Galaxy. The 'Myst' books touch on this, that different 'ages' can have different physical laws.
The Federation must contact the Rebels and the Jedi.
Does the federation know the Jedi or rebels even existing? No
@@sherwinkentpajomunoz2521 remember they have the real earth and might have star wars movies
@@sherwinkentpajomunoz2521 SPOILERS:Part 2 showed that ST contacted the Rebels,but contacting rebels pretty much get some easy way to find Jedi afterwards.
@@Blitzozs They did,see Pt2.
Wouldn't the Rebels and/or Jedi know of the Federation's existence and wouldn't they contact them though?
1: Borg the greatest threat the federation has ever seen? you havnt met the iconians yet.
2: You have jedi, pppfff We have Q
i think the jedi would join the federation against the empire in empire vs federation scenario.
@@-pancakes7205 I agree. The Federation are not the aggressors and seek peaceful coexistence. The Jedi would become the new Volcans lol
@@NFERNO100 Vulcans.....with mid-high tier psychics and lightsabers.
While the Galactic Empire does likely have a larger military than either the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Breen, Dominion or Cardassians (possibly even combined), an Empire expansion into the Milky Way Galaxy would likely fail for these reasons:
*#1:* The Empire is already having a hard enough time fighting the Rebel Alliance back in their own galaxy as it is and the Empire doesn't even seem to have full control of their own galaxy since there are many parts (like the Unknown Regions or Hutt Space) that the Empire has either not expanded into yet or have failed to expand into.
That said, if the Empire does try to expand into the Milky Way Galaxy, they'd stretch their forces too thin and it would allow the Rebel Alliance (and possibly other opportunistic powers like the Yuuzhan Vong) to knock out and carve out the Empire.
*#2:* While with hyperspace, the Empire ships may be able to jump around the Alpha, Beta, Delta and Gamma Quadrants within moments, they'd have to fight various factions across different parts of the galaxy.
In the Milky Way Galaxy, the Empire would have to fight:
* The Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Breen, Cardassians, Ferengi, Talarians, Tzenkethi, Gorn and Tholians in the Alpha & Beta Quadrants,
* The Dominion in the Gamma Quadrant and
* The Borg, Kazon, Krenim, Talaxians, Hirogen, Kobali, Mawasi, Nihydron, Voth, etc in the Delta Quadrant.
That said, the Empire wouldn't have 1 unified/single opponent (like the Rebel Alliance) across the galaxy but various enemies across various parts of the galaxy and lastly...
*#3:* Economically, I doubt the Empire would be able to fund another major war in another Galaxy as the war against the Rebel Alliance was costly to the Empire enough as it is, a second expansion would potentially cause the Empire to accumulate debt and destroy them economically.
I understand that Darth Sidious seeks power and to control the galaxy, but Sidious/Palpatine is was a well experienced & skilled diplomat, senator and chancellor, and I'm sure Sidious would understand it would be counterintuitive to try to conquer the galaxy, especially while his in the middle of a war against the Rebel Alliance. Bare in mind, the main goal of the Empire right now is to defeat the Rebel Alliance and conquer their own galaxy first, so another military expedition this large as a side project would just be out of the question.
Trekkie nz @ Now I agree, if anything that the Imperials (New Sith Empire) could do...Is act as a friend, and infiltrate the Federation...Where there could get advanced technology, and allies...Because if one thing is true...The Federation is full of "Liberal atheists" with little belief or regard for the ParaNormal...Which comes the Sith who are experts in subterfuge...And The "Darkside of the Force.." Sith/Jedi would have a field day in the Alpha quadrant showing off their "Magic abilities"...And the Klingons would the most impressionable with demonstrations of the Dark side...They would be instantly on board...With their warlike people...The Imperials would be able to turn their "Star Destroyers" into true planetary siege machines, and instruments of warfare...(re: Transporters, Disruptors, photon torpedoes/Launchers, etc...)
Little belief in the paranormal? Federation space is filled with empaths, telepaths, energy beings, and living gods. They do not need it to be 'paranormal', it is just, well 'normal'. Sith and Jedi are just mid-tier in the ST universe, and probably would be less effective in a population unlikely to see them as something unique or requiring disbelief.
Don't forget pissing of the Q! I don't care what power of the force one may have. We have Q! Sorry I'm a big Star Wars meat head, and I love Trek too. But Q, don't forget Q...
True, I doubt the Empire would try to invade the Federation (or any major power in the Alpha & Beta Quadrants) outright but I agree they'd probably send agents and infiltrators to the Milky Way Galaxy to learn more about them. The Empire would also likely offer Imperial starcharts of their galaxy to Starfleet and allow Starfleet vessels to conduct scientific exploration (under Imperial supervision) of their galaxy in exchange for letting Imperial ships study the Alpha & Beta Quadrants as well (under the pretext of scientific exploration but with reconnaissance & intelligence gathering in mind).
I would also imagine that Imperial Admiral Thrawn (who takes the time to extensively study his opponents and potential opponents to try to better understand them) would try to send Imperial agents & officers to Earth, Qo'noS, Cardassia Prime and Romulus under the guise of a diplomatic/cultural exchange envoy to try to study and learn more about the Federation, Klingons, Cardassians and Romulans. Thrawn would probably also take an interest in studying the Dominion War in order to better understand the tactics of the Federation, Klingons, Dominion, Romulans, Breen and Cardassians.
PS: Just a slight disagreement here, I think Religion does still very much exist in the Federation as in Star Trek: Enterprise episode 'Cold Front' Doctor Phlox (who is an alien, yeah) mentioned how he attended a mass in St. Peter's Square in The Vatican. That means, if His Holiness, The Pope is still holding Papal Mass at St. Peter's Square, then that means The Catholic Church still exists and Catholics still exist.
Also, the Bajorans are deeply religious people who worship the wormhole aliens and (while I know it may only be mentioned in the novels) in 2376, Bajor was accepted into the Federation. I doubt the Bajorans would abandon their faith just for Federation membership and I doubt the Federation would forcibly try to suppress their faith and force them to renounce it (as that would only just remind the Bajorans of the not too long ago, Cardassian occupation who pretty much tried to do the same thing albeit in a more brutal manner).
Trekkie nz iii
Honestly, I think that Grand Admiral Thrawn would've been a better choice for the diplomatic meetings. Imagine Thrawn with a Bat'leth that was gifted to him.
Unfortunately Thrawn isn't a civil servant like a diplomat is. He is purely military personnel. Someone like a civil diplomat/senator, a governor, moff (In this case Grand Moff Tarkin.) or even Vader himself would be more likely to be in the talks than a grand admiral.
"What an interesting weapon. Perfectly balanced and adaptable to the user. Fierce in its use as a weapon and intimidating even sitting on a wall collecting dust. It looks to be of an old design but recently made with new materials. Old ways being reused for new goals. This will go nicely sitting beside the weapons of other conquered enemies of the Empire."
Just transport a photon torpedo to the hanger of a star destroyer and watch the fireworks maybe?
They probably can't transport the torpedo directly through the Star Destroyer's shield.
It doesn't really matter, though, because a transphasic torpedo is going to bypass the problem entirely via not existing in real space until it needs to explode, and one-shot the Star Destroyer from outside the SD's max range. lol
“So the Star Destroyer resorts to bashing the shields down with turbolasers, in very short order even Starfleet’s shields cannot withstand the barrage from these massive weapons”...
1.
Wookiepedia: A turbolaser was a powerful laser cannon turret stationed aboard large craft and space stations... A turbolaser's effectiveness was weakened DRASTICALLY as the bolt moved through layers of a planet's atmosphere, making them largely ineffective even against unshielded targets....
As reference, this last is a problem not shared by much more powerful Phasers.
Indeed, turbolasers are still just lasers.
Star Trek TNG. Season 02 Episode 04.
Worf: Captain, they are now locking lasers on us.
Riker: Lasers?!?
Worf: Yes Sir.
Picard: Lasers can’t even penetrate our navigation shields, don’t they know that?
Riker: Regulations do call for yellow alert.
Picard: Hmm, very old regulation... well make it so Number One, and reduce speed, drop main shields as well.
Riker: May I ask why Sir?
Picard: In case we decide to surrender to them Number One.
2.
Interdictor cruisers simulate a planets gravity well effectively pulling ships out of hyperspace, Trek ships can warp out directly out of a planets orbit or even a star’s corona, the interdictor would have zero effect on warp drives.
The Empire would be no match for any advanced Trek civ.
"Lasers" from Star Wars are not traditional lasers as we know them. SW lasers produce recoil, travel slower than light, and explode on impact. Federation starships' supposed immunity to traditional lasers would offer no protection. The energy output of SW weapons would be completely overwhelming to any ST ship. The heavy turbolasers from an outdated troop transport from the Clone Wars would be able to deliver the equivalent yield of 3,125 photon torpedoes. The yield on a dedicated, advanced warship like a Star Destroyer would very likely be much higher. The Galactic Empire would be able to easily overwhelm every power from the Alpha Quadrant. At once.
@Proctain Darkward speaking of asteroid destruction, in AotC Slave-1 ripped an entire dense asteroid field to shreds with a few seismic charges. In the TNG episode "Pegasus", Worf noted that it would take the ENTIRE armament of 250 photon torpedoes to destroy a single HOLLOW asteroid. Slave-1, a 1-2 man patrol ship ran by a bounty hunter massively outguns the flagship of the Federation. Lol.
@@FlameMammoth "Federation starships' supposed immunity to traditional lasers would offer no protection. "
Speculation. You have absolutely no idea if it would offer protection, because you don't know how that protection worked. They don't say.
"The energy output of SW weapons would be completely overwhelming to any ST ship."
Based on what evidence? Your imagination?
"he heavy turbolasers from an outdated troop transport from the Clone Wars would be able to deliver the equivalent yield of 3,125 photon torpedoes."
Citation needed.
@@FlameMammoth Yes, and it takes an entire Death Star to destroy a defenseless planet in Star Wars, a feat capable by any ship in the Federation. They are different series, with different standards on what is required to accomplish different tasks. Exactly how many double standards do you have to employ to get the result you want?
@@JD-xz1mx Alderaan had a planetary shield, which the Death Star instantly overwhelmed. Planetary shields had the ability to protect against a sustained bombardment from an attacking fleet. The Rebels hastily constructed shield generator on Hoth had the same ability so presumably a Core Worlds shield would be much more powerful. Part of the reason the Death Star was built was its ability to destroy planets that are well protected.
The Star Wars ships will be subject to regular Star Trek laws of physics.
What does that mean? It would just fall out of the... Space or something?
@Q UE ok but they could just use then like there In space. Ties can move up down left right and forward and backward.
@@CoolMyron were talking about atmosphere. Remember the voyager.
@@mrtkeynotes7889 No i do not watch much Star Trek. What in star trek makes fighters fall out of the sky?
The first encounter between the star destroyer and galaxy class would be disastrous for the star destroyer. The maneuverability at impulse speed would be faster than anything star destroyer has never tried to lock onto and fire at. Remember most Star Wars capital ships shoot at other capital ships that basically don’t move. Which means the Turbolasers on a star destroyer would have a little to any chance of actually making a hit on a Star Trek ship. Then all the Star Trek ship would have to do is get behind the Star destroyer and game over for the destroyer.
Bajor never catches a break, does it?
Transformers And Power Rangers Toy Reviews bajor caught a break...when it met the federation...plus colonel Kira kicks all ass!
Nope, it wont
DS9 would have been so much better if they'd been able to use Ro Laren instead of substitute Ro Laren.
when you share a system with the main plot device, things generally don't go well.
Come to think of it.. I do want a Deep Space 9 second series. I really loved that series!
"Learn the local languages."
You mean English? Because everything in every scifi speaks, or at least understands English.
Lol, so true.
Eh, Federation has Universal Language translators and it should be able to work normally regardless of the position they are in as all language works on similar principles
For Star Trek there are a language for every race. The Federation is known to be using "federation standard", vulcan have umm... Vulcan. Klingon have Klingonnese and Romulan are shown to have a few languages.
@@salih-khan *Almost all, Remember Darmok, and that matriarchal race from Gamma Q?
They call it "Imperial basic" so try again
Based on the new Thrawn Alliances book, we can now guess how the Imperials react to an unknown civilzation, even hostile. They generally will defend themselves but are reluctant to start wars when it's not on their own terms. The imperials i know would make sure they knew everything about the Federation, and how to get to them before committing such a massive act of aggresion.
Star Fleet jumps in fires photons, jumps out. Turns around does it until the empire is floating garbage. The Empire has no way to deal with the advantages of warp drive. It would be worse then 100 ships of the line trying to fight an FA18.
star wars stuff is aimed by local fire control, basically over iron sights. as long as the Feds stay at a more sensible range, theyd mop the floor with them
Easy solution equip all ships with cloaking devices and transport two quantum torpedoes aboard to destroy the ships, would be the easiest and best tactical advantage
Charles Baxter 😊
The empire has cloaks of their own and Kyber crystal Grav traps to detect them
@@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547 However I'm pretty sure we only ever see 1 cloaking device on screen for star wars, so that implys that they are really rare, and in Star trek they are fairly common. Even the federation has the technology, they are just bared form using it due to a treaty.
@@aidanpayne7843 they are, just outside of the empire who are the pioneers of the technology. They can also detect any cloaked vessel making other peoples cloaks useless while they have an Armada of cloaked ships and fightersb
@Proctain Darkward They say its dangerous, yet in one episode they are able to beam a note pad from Picard's hand to the hand of a captain on another ship while they are talking over the viewer (and thats TNG, the tech is even better by the end of Voyagar). Beaming weapons directly to an enemy ship would be easy, they just don't bother usually because shields are better in star trek, they don't rely on brute force, the rotate frequencies to completely cancel parts of the enemies weapons, which are also rotating frequency. Star Wars is all about brute force, so if the federation ship can scan their shields, see that they aren't rotating them, then they can just match frequency and beam right through it. They've done the same on Trek many times. They've also nearly completely cancelled out enemy weapons when the enemy isn't using multi-phase weapons.
Trek beats Star Wars because they finesse the problem, while Star Wars brute forces. Their weapons are shown to have far greater range and accuracy and their ships are more maneuverable. They would just pick star destroyers off at a distance. Star Destroyers weapons are fired manually (which is funny because clearly luke has a targeting comptuer on his X-wing during New Hope, but every other weapon is fired manually after that), Trek uses AI computers to target lock and fire phasers and torpedoes, which can lock on themselves and alter course.
Also even if dense material SOMETIMES block transporters (it doesn't seem to be much of an issue in later DS9 and Voyager because they transport through solid rock into underground tunnels several times)...there are an awful lot of windows on star destroyers...and again they have shown that transporters can pinpoint transport to a location.
If we are talking about post voyager tech, then we are talking about the Tech that future Janeway brought back (yeah I know thats cheating...but its canon), and that shit was ridiculous. The ablative armor and torpedoes that one shot borg cubes.
Star Wars best bet is the force. While Trek has some psychics, they certainly aren't on the same level as a Jedi or Sith...but few Jedi were shown to be powerful enough to reach across space and actually affect another ship. Fortunately for the Empire, two of said jedi are on their side.
i think that ignoring the differences in weapons and defensive technologies is a huge diservice to star trek. You don't need to rely on technical numbers to estimate thier real damage, all you need to do is look at the feats of the weapons. the fact that you did not bother to do any research detracts from an orherwise ambitous video.
onemonkeysrage Numbers are the only thing you can rely on to form a translative medium. There is no such thing as immunity to anything. If you scale it properly or develop it enough you can throw a rock at a SD or a Federation vessel and it will explode.
onemonkeysrage considering that tetryon can wreak having on shields, and the polaron (including the dominions phased type, meant to bypass shields) ability to drain energy... those two types of weapons would devestate the empires ships.
and then there's the numerous types of torpedoes...
overall, I agree with your statement.
Sagrotan but it's not just the federation fighting.... each faction that'd fight has its own type of energy weapon. and we know exactly what the kdf do, and the romulan plasma, and the dominions phased polaron. it's all in the series.
Ah c'mon. He's already ignoring the very different timelines. A long time ago vs hundreds of years from now.
So first you start out with "we're going to ignore the numbers in terms of weapon power", then you conveniently forget that hyperdrive was used to make the jump to only light speed (warp 1), and after all that assume there Klingons in the first engagement teleport solders to the star destroyer instead of, say, timed photon torpedos to the bridge (been done before).
All these what if shorts are done by Star Wars fans who tell you to ignore shit, assume the best from one side and the worst from another, then yada yada yada, Darth Vader wins.
Fuck it...I bet Palestine beats Q because, you know, you should forever he's a timeless entity and stuff.
With the caveat that this might be dealt with in the second video, if the Federation and Klingons are able to penetrate the Imperial's shields enough for the transporters to work, why not just beam a photon torpedo into the Star Destroyer and detonate it inside?
YAHTZEE!!! 😃
I find it hard to believe that stormtroopers, whose rifles only "nick" Leia in RToJ would do much people armed with even type 1 TOS phasers which can hit you anywhere and disintegrate you like you were never there. A TNG hand-phaser not even on its highest setting would "take out half the building" of a large installation Ryker is in at one point. A stormtrooper blaster rifle couldn't take out a honey bucket.
Yeah, but Leia has plot armor.
They hurt non main characters just fine
@@nathansteele4358 True, but Say what you want about red-shirts I don't see em miss all that much.
@@sinistar99 true, but in extended universe and comics, storm troopers presented as far better trained and more skilled and have somewhat business on the battlefield unlike the movies.
Enough that the sheer number of them that can be deployed makes them a very affective force
Plus Star Wars isn’t just a bigger galaxy but way more populated, Coruscant alone having a population of close to a trillion residents (capital of the empire), which implies they have a nearly unlimited pool to scout soldiers from, Coruscant alone possibly outnumbers humans in the Milky Way, with several other population hubs.
(Despite Star Wars being fantastical and crazy I like how much the universe logistics and politics make sense in the world presented)
not even saying they’d win because technology is behind in space fights but the empire could conquer any world if they managed to get troops on the ground
Step 1: Fly to rear of SD
Step 2: You win
Hire a few mercenary vessels to start firing at 200,000 km ranges towards warzie vessels that can't hit the side of a barn at 13,000 km. Win!
@Victor Nikolai The most sophisticated battle station was hacked by a normal astromech. No they don't.
Kai Creech I wouldn’t call a Separatist Clone Wars ship the most advanced, and all R2 did was hack the elevators, not the entire ship
@@clarkstrange2142
I mean the Death Star, and that kind of access should still be impossible.
Kai Creech true, but again that was only one system. Star Wars isn’t known for its security since hacking, or slicing as its known in SW, isn’t on the level of real life. It’s one of the quirks Star Wars has that we currently have more advanced tech in one respect (security) than an advanced civilization does. It’s debatable if things like computing or more or less advanced tho
I forget where I had seen this particular line before.. but here it is: The side with teleporters wins. If you can just beam weapons behind the armor or directly onto vulnerable points, or beam off something critical.. from a distance, you win.
Major hindrance for teleporters... SHIELDS... and Imperial ships do posses shields as well.
Especially Imperial class SD poses both types of shields able to stop energy and physical (which Federation is not using anyway) weapons.
Torpedoes are physical.
Asheer In theory, they could scan shield frequency and adjust weapons/transporters to go right through the shields. It worked on Star Trek Generations. ☺
Asheer Also, ionizing radiation and dense metals can block transporter beams, so the Empire could use one of those.
Asheer Torpedoes are Kinetic, their explosions are certainly kinetic, and Track targets better than Star Wars.
An interesting analysis, but I do have some points to raise.
1. Wouldn’t just surrounding the wormhole with cloaked self-replicating mines do the trick of stopping the Galactic Empire?
2. I suspect that Admiral Janeway would introduce the tactic of beaming photon torpedoes aboard (like her crew used against the Borg) to Starfleet general tactics once shields go down and given how Starfleet already has made extensive scans they know where to beam them where it hurts.
3. The NX-01's prototype phase cannons were capable of leveling a mountain. (Silent Enemy) The Tal-Shiar/Obsidian Order task force obliterated 30% of the planet's surface in their opening volley on the Founders' homeworld. Contrarily, Star Wars: Rebels gives us an entire fleet of Imperial Star Destroyers not even capable of laying waste to a small targeted area of attack around a shielded area that was the target of their attack. If Bajor has got any sort of primitive shielding that could hold out long enough, as we've heard about in Star Trek, the Galactic Empire might be disheartened enough as they were in that episode or indeed in TESB that they would likely resort to a ground assault with AT-ATs.
4. Deep Space 9 could avoid capture by simply activating the Counter-Insurgency Program.
Warp 9 planet buster, remember the Maki weapon that Voyager found.
Yes mining the wormhole would've been a great option - perhaps they did not want to intimidate the empire, perhaps the feds will get a chance to mine the wormhole later! On the power of NX-01's phase cannons. I think by the time we get to tech levels of star wars or star trek, even our own technology could pretty much level a mountain with nukes (imagine if the MOAB bomb was nuclear), I am sure either side has weapons that are powerful enough to obliterate a small moon without something like a death star. The counter-insurgency program you refer to, was that the one Dukat had put in place? I am sure it was purged however that would be quite hilarious if an imperial crew had to deal with such a thing!
Baseshocks @-Your referring to the " Cardassian intergalactic weapon of WMD: Dreadnaught...A Heavily armed, Anti-planet, autonomous, Anti-matter Missile...Smaller than the USS Voyager...It had Arsenal of Cardassian Phaser type weapons, Photon/Quantum Torpedoes, Defensive Shields/and Offensive shields: Solaton shock emitters-capable of destroying small defense satellites and Fighters...And, of course, it was a (ICBM like WMD) Large Antimatter missile capable of fully destroying a planet....much smaller than the Death Star I'm afraid.....
176bammm - that's it exactly, thanks for clarifying.
all so trek has mirror , new movie and prime directive canon to draw troops and recourses
There's one thing that always seem to be missed in these kinds of analyses. The Star Wars universe's relliance on small fighters would essentially be useless against Federation Cardassian and Romulan opponents (might have some success with the klingons) for a very simple reason. the phaser systems on Starfleet vessels are omni directional and their targeting systems are accurate enough to pinpoint specific systems on small vessels to dissable them without destroying them. Their maneuverability will count for nothing when your opponent has an almost spherical targeting window and the ability to lock on in a thousandth of a second and your fighters have no shields. Star destroyer to starship may be comperable in power but star wars has shown the weapons systems to be manually operated and relatively slow in adjusting, the slight maneuverability edge of trek starships could play a role here and the greater focus on sensors would allow for further distance targeting of torpedos etc.
I greatly admire your analysis.
@Klein Star Wars fighters absolutely were NOT equipped with shields that was the entire point of grand admiral Thrawn’s tie defender project to implement and mass produce a responsive shielded fighter. Additionally if you are going to attempt to describe a shortcoming in federation capabilities I’d advise you to pull from a source that is not literally the most technological infancy of starfleet. That actually highlights the fundamental difference between the Star Trek and Star Wars technological mythos. Star Trek is constantly learning and improving everything at their disposal, the Star Wars galaxy by and large has had no major technological improvements in over ten millennia
@Klein I’m sure you can find some half baked old Expand Universe reference to fighters having shields, most likely a mechanic of some video game, but considering a) all of the old expanded universe stuff was de-canonized and b) even before that the now legends material was a cobbled together hodgepodge of incoherent and contradictory information so it’s use as a primary technical source is dubious at best, incompatible at worst but regardless inadmissible in comparative examinations. What we do have to compare is probably the most iconic scene that is completely indisputably canon, the trench run of episode IV. In this scene a single shot from another fighter 1) disabled Wedge’s X-wing to the point where he could not continue the assault and 2) destroyed the other support X-wing with a single strike, 3) grazed Luke’s ship to cause damage to R2. All events indicate no addition defense or any type of shielding that protects any of the physical components of the craft, coupled with the concerns that again were being addressed by Thrawn’s defender project demonstrate pretty conclusively that no, Star Wars fighters don’t have shields (with the proper exception of Vader’s personal TIE Advanced x1, but even the shielding in that can be assumed to be minimal compared to larger craft)
No! Imperial tractor beams have never display a comparability to the Borg technology . And you can't hammer down a federation shield with a two kilometers per second rail gun like turbolasers. It requires a far greater kinetic load to accomplish that .And heat is not enough against Federation shields. Interdictor would not be capable of stopping Federation ships from going warp . Because a warp field exists in normal space not hyperspace interdictors only affect hyperspace jump points not normal space . If they had such capabilities. They would be capable of stopping ships at sublight speeds as well in normal space.And that feat has not been accomplished at any point against the rebels. Because they can't. And a device from the fanfiction EU corruption that didn't exist in any of the films except in a cartoon should not be given any credence.And tei fighter's wouldn't be able to swarm a Federation vessel. In fact they wouldn't be able to catch it even at it's cruising sublight-speed of 0.25c. 46.500 miles per second. With a fighter that only travels at 1.200 Kph.A Delta V shuttle pod is faster than a Tie fighter. It's sublight speed capability is 12.800 miles per second. All a federation vessel would need to do is to maintain they're cruising speed and plow right through the swarm of Tie fighters. It would be like insects splatting on a car window. Federation shields have taken far heavier kinetic load then mere TIE fighter's splatting on them. So I contend that capture by Imperial forces would be virtually impossible for such a feat to be accomplished against ships this fast in normal space.The point is they can't contend with the Federation sublight speed in normal space. How could they contend with them at warp velocities ?
The Senate : With a tractor beam or interdictor? I don't remember the episode nor event.
federation ships could literally just ram practically any star wars ship
Warp drive is affected by gravity. Later series writers forgot or ignored this. The slingshot maneuver and the near destruction of the Enterprise by a random asteroid in ST:TMP are examples of gravity affecting Warp drive.
Interdictor cruisers are canon, whether you like it or not. Everything in the Clone Wars cartoons is canon. Interdictors work by creating a mass-shadow in real space that prevents a ship's hyperdrive from engaging and transitioning the ship into hyperspace. I don't know warp field "physics" well enough to know for certain, but if proximity to a gravity well prevents a warp field from properly forming, then an interdictor would absolutely prevent a ship from going to warp, regardless of the warp field existing in real space. The interdictor isn't some piece of magic that just stops ships entering hyperspace; there's an actual explanation for how it works. But without a full comparison of how those two pieces of tech work, any conversation about their interaction is purely speculation. It is just as likely an interdictor would prevent warp speed as it wouldn't.
Travel through hyperspace is much faster than travel at warp. Point-four past light speed (an Imp Star Destroyer's cruising speed) is approximately 125 light years per hour, meaning it would take a Star Destroyer 800 hours to cross the entire Milky Way galaxy, or just over a month. It takes the Federation DECADES to cross one quadrant. So, once the Empire figures out how to track ships at warp, the Federation ships will never be able to elude them. We also know Federation ships can't warp through a blockade (demonstrated many times in TNG). So, all the Empire has to do is blockade the mouth of the wormhole. Any Federation ship that tries to come through will either have to fight their way through, or go back.
The conversation about turbolaser effects on Federation shields is irrelevant. First, you have no way of knowing how powerful turbolaser batteries are in comparison to any weapons shown in Star Trek, nor how effective the ships' shields would be against turbolasers, heavy turbolasers, proton torpedoes, and concussion missiles. And turbolasers aren't 'rail guns'. The weapons shown being fired in Episode III were NOT turbolasers, so your insistence Federation shields could withstand a turbolaser attack with ease is pure speculation. Second, Star Destroyers carry 60 ion cannons that do nothing but disrupt the target ship's electronics. After a solid ion cannon barrage, any Star Trek ship would be completely without shields and essentially dead in space. No shields, no life support, no warp drive, no weapons (see the effect an ion cannon has on a star ship in The Empire Strikes Back). (Neither you nor the video creator have any reason to compare SW tractor beams to ST tractor beams. Literally 1 tractor beam was shown in use in the Star Wars films, and it was the Death Star pulling in the Millennium Falcon. There's absolutely no logical reason to assume that functionality is the extent of SW tractor beam tech, and there's no reason to assume the DS was using even a small fraction of it's potential power on that tractor beam. Furthermore, shields don't disrupt tractor beams in Star Wars, so there's no reason to believe simply modulating shield frequencies would be at all effective against a SW tractor beam.)
TIE/In starfighters have a top ATMOSPHERIC speed of 1200kph. Their speed in space is far greater than that. Since no official Star Wars source provides actual ships' speeds in space, everything you said is pure speculation. The only "official" information given about ships' speeds is a comparison chart using the fictitious unit 'MGLT' to represent various speeds. The Millennium Falcon has a speed of about 70 MGLT, while an A-wing has a speed of about 150 MGLT. That only shows that the A-wing is more than twice as fast as the Falcon. Several sources describe starfighter speeds as "a significant fraction of the speed of light," even going so far as to explain how the proximity of ships shown in space battles is enhanced to facilitate human senses, since most of the time ships are so far apart they can't be seen by the naked eye, particularly starfighters. One source describes an X-wing flying at .7C, and a TIE fighter is the same speed, or just a little faster. So, if that's accurate, it looks like TIE fighters are pushing three times FASTER than Federation ships at sublight/impulse speeds.
Finally, only two words really need to be mentioned in the Star Wars vs. Star Trek debate: Death Star. Check mate. The Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, etc., are all done. Nothing in the Star Trek universe is capable of taking on a Death Star. Thanks for playing.
In the second season TNG episode entitled 'The Outrageous Okana', The Enterprise-D is approached by an Atlecian vessel that locks lasers on them. Picard then says, "Lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shield, don't they know that?" Therefore, I have to say that pretty much nullifies any Empire vessel short of the freaking Death Star because the Star Wars universe repeatedly refers to their weapons as 'lasers'. The Federation would conquer the Empire in about a week. HOWEVER, having said that, bear in mind that one moderate level Sith could take over Federation ships and outposts in a short time, assuming there are no Vulcans or other races with mental capabilities.
Discuss...
Remember the Star Wars galaxy does have cloaking devices, so shouldn't have been that surprised that the Star Trek galaxy had the same, we don't see Cloaks used in Star Wars but we are told. "No Ship that small has a cloaking device" in The Empire Strikes Back.
David Pemberton We have seen cloaking technology in one of the clone wars episode
Jim W In the expanded universe the Executor used cloaking technology
The Expanded Universe is a real-life example of "a universe of monkeys with typewriters," i.e. eventually you get EVERYTHING.
NOTHING in the EU is canon.
Tie Phantoms use cloaking
Tom Evans But in the Clone Wars they had a Cloaked ship and that was not the first one but the smallest cloaked ship that they had ever done and that is Canon
What I think takes the fight is the fact that Trek ships have much MUCH better weapon ranges than Star Wars ships.
The THEORETICAL RANGE of a Star Destroyer AT MAXIMUM EFFICIENCY is probably around 5,000 km. Since no machine is perfectly efficient, the PRACTICAL range would be about 1,000 km, with 100 - 200 km being normal fighting range like we see in movies.
The TNG Technical Manual states that the Enterprise phaser range is 300,000 km and the torp range is 2 - 3 million km. And the TNGTM is considered canon. Additionally, we have strong circumstantial evidence that some ST ships can fire phasers much further. In the CANON episode "The Wounded, " the U.S.S Pheonix moves to outside 300,000 km from its target, but still has phasers charged. This can imply that the Pheonix can fire from outside that range, as if it couldn't there would be no point in diverting all that power to the phasers. Even if the Pheonix could only fire phasers from within 300,000 km, that range still dwarfs that of SW ships. And for the sake of letting the Star Wars fanboys keep some shred of dignity, I won't even go into torps.
Or the ships of the Iconians, Borg, 8472, or any other advanced species, because those would shred an entire Star Wars FLEET in maybe an hour at most.
Go ahead and throw your weapon stats, shield stats, hull durability, or whatever else you have at me. I don't care, because the ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS RANGE. If the Star Wars ship you are arguing for never even hits the Star Trek ship you argue against, than your precious statistics all become a moot point.
Starfleet Officer Agreed 👽
Well said. I have always thought that Star Trek ships and weapons made Star Wars look childish y comparison. Not only that but the Empire are notoriously bad shots
So, you get to assume theoretical weapon ranges in Star Wars, because that allows you to pretend Star Trek stands a chance? I mean, if you're just going to make crap up, you can say anything. Robin Hood could beat the entire Federation with his bow, because I said so.
adam harp 8177223
@@frocat5163 the only weapon that is shown to have more than 5000km range is the death star super laser. Capital ship to capital ship combat has been shown to be relatively short distance in Star wars around 500km.
A Federation Starship would lock on tractor beams to the Empire Star Crusier and DRAG THEM thru warp 3 and pull it apart.
Spock would mind meld Vader and destroy his mind.
Drop the mic.
Tony Lankford is that before, or after the Death Star blew up Earth, Vulcan, & Kronos?
B Carver it’s before the Borg assimilation of the galactic empire
I agree that the Federation tech would defeat the Empire Tech, but no Spock wouldn't destroy Vader's mind. Vader is really powerful, like able to cloud the minds of entire armies to make them miss him. His powers also run on hate, so they just get more powerful as he fights, he's like the Jedi version of the Hulk. Spock doesn't get more powerful, he is just Spock.
Spock's better strategy is if he even gets close enough for a mind meld (which I don't think he can do through Vader's helmet) is to actually calm Vader and try to help him work through his issues. Spock can actually take his hate and anger away from him and absorb them, and then use his superior self control to shove them down and deal with them later...effectively fixing Vader. Then Vader goes to kill the Emperor, the only other actual threat to the Federation, and the fight is over!
@@bcarver257 The death star would go down when a runabout transported a quantum torpedo into its core and destroyed it...or just just hacked it navigation systems and sent it to sit out in space until they could get around to dealing with it.
@@bcarver257 How are you going to fit the Death Star through the worm-hole?
I think at first the empire would have the advantage in terms of military might but the federation would win the intelligence war. They could easily adapt the empire's technology to their own, provided enough time. Also if you take in account that the empire's average Soldier isn't going to have as much tactical knowledge compared to your average Starfleet officer who would have needed to complete at least 4 years of intense training in order to join Starfleet. The empire is a military organization which is driven by conquest. Their for they tend to go throw a lot of soldiers so their recruitment requirements are going to be very basic. But Starfleet isn't a military organization but a science-based/ exploratory one. So pretty much every star fleet officer would need to have the equivalent of a university degree of some sort. But the federation does have a major weakness because most of their ships aren't built or designed for major military conflict/ war. Compared to the Star Destroyers. A Starfleet vessel would be heavily outgunned. It's honestly hard to say who would come out on top though.
Starfleets officer corp would definitly be way more trained than the average stormtrooper. We musnt forget that Star destroyers would have a similar officer class aboard, although perhaps not trained as adaptively as Starfleet officers.
Perhaps due to the size of the empire officer training is still hard but short, focussing on running a ship and basic ship/fleet tactics. In this way a single star destroyer could hold its own in battle but depending on the captain might not have the ingenuity or adaptive "out of the box thinking" almost all Starfleet captains would have
For military, not in the slightest. Starfleet's weapons range is several times that of a star destroyer. They could park outside their weapons range and bomb the living shit out of them with phasers and torpedoes.
Good logic. But that same argument could lead to the federation downfall. Starfleet will have less numbers so Any loss will hurt them badly. On contrary empire will have more grunts to throw at rhe war. Besides empire is a military industry they will thrive in a war situation where else federation will find it difficult to scale up. If given time maybe federation can match empire . But then again empire exist to conquer and make war. So rhey will be used to most scenarios including fighting a foe which will have different technologies. They will adapt more quickly
Love how transporter technology MUST BE IMMEDIATELY DISMISSED otherwise the whole premise falls apart. All the Federation would do is beam a photon torpedo inside an Empire ship...bye bye Empire.
Yup!
Of course, their are other political entities in the Alpha/Beta Quadrant that would be involved in the outcome... Imagine an encounter of Darth Vader vs. Q
Would I be correct in assuming Q would be sensed by Vader?
Vader would know instantly who was stronger...
Q hands down.
LOL.
Vader (a whiny bitch) vs. Q (an omnipotent god, who has the power to do, literally, whatever he can think of).
Gee, I wonder who would win?
*Vader starts choking Q
*Q removes Vader's mom from the timeline with a wink
Dark Orion LOL!
The Empire really only has numbers on their side. ST ships out match them in every other way.
its interesting that you magically disable transporters in their universe. on what basis do you do this?
its important to consider the fog of war for space battle. its called light lag.
imperials have it. the federal does not. this literally means the federation will always have the fog of war battle field high ground and there is quite literally nothing the imperials can do about that.
why do you think federation ships fight "CQB" so to speak to borrow a term from the expanse. because there is no light lag advantage and it means any weapons fire from a distance is literally pointless as the ships can simply "move out of the way" of the incoming fire. so you have to get in close.
because there is no "light lag" for federation tactics. their sensors are super luminal. they can "see" the battle field in "real time" which is something the imperials can not do. and this alone is why they can never win. no matter how many numbers they have.
imperial ships however HAVE to fight CQB because light lag makes battle impossible at distance.
Give me a runabout off of DS9 and I can destroy "star destroyers" all day long and they will never, ever, be able to touch me. hell they won't even SEE ME except for my light lagged sensor ghost which will always be a "ghost" to them.
I will simply sit 5 light seconds out and lob torpedo's at them. hell I could just tractor "ROCKS" to near C and launch KKV projectiles at them with dumb rocks and there is nothing they can do about it. light lag.
light lag is king in space combat of this nature.
if you are limited by light lag against an opponent who is not. you can not win. its that simple.
the imperials also do not really have shields. they might interfere with phasers but AS has been seen in canon star wars those deflector screens do not stop "matter" so torpedos would blow right through. so would KKV's
also even without "warp" federation ships can move (and do so rapidly) at relativistic speeds. Imperial ships "can not" their max speeds are quite low in federation terms.
But what about the 10,000 JIGGAWANKS OF SUPERDUPERTURBOLASER CANNONS placed on slow moving mechanical turrets...? Surely!
Nerys take note the star destroyers may be slower but they are "war ships" they are meant to tank and cause massive amounts of damage while the federation focuses more on exploration they don't posses the weaponry and defenses the star destroyers do
Platzhallter so staying away from range means it has better battle capabilities?
Platzhallter my point is that a star destroyer has more durability and fire power so if in range they would not last very long against a star destroyer
Mc Donald Ronald they would never be in range the moment the Starfleet vessel realized but the Star Wars vessel was light lag Limited they would simply stand off 5 or 10 light seconds and there would be nothing the Star Destroyer could do at all it would be completely impotent
I'd like to point out that Voyager, by no means a combat vessel, took on seven Kazon warships at once, each the size of an Imperial Star Destroyer. Voyager was winning until a refuge she'd taken aboard turned himself into a bio-bomb.
Let it sink in; one Starfleet ship was winning against seven warships, each the size of a Star Destroyer.
Exactly. Everyone has the mentality of the 'bigger is better' for these debates but fail to realize the actual feats we see in their respective universes.
Let's take a look at Thrawns bombardment in Ashoka vs the Martian orbital bombardment in Picard
@@homelessend8557😂🤡 Disney really just handed you all of the ammunition you ever could have wanted eh? There's not a single nerd thread I see you in where you don't mention it.
Ok, but the weapons in star wars are based on lasers and Picard clearly stated in one of the TNG episodes that lasers wouldn't even penetrate their navigation shields. I realize it's prolly some kinda "hyper laser" but I just don't see empire ships destroying federation ships so easily. The federation has the technological advantage here unless you bring the force into it. Your analysis has several problems IMO. Also, not a fanboy as i like both franchises, just saying.
Star Wars uses something called 'blaster gas', basically making their weapons closer to a particle beam.
The term laser was just for a Simplicity sake, because Star Wars likes to keep things simple.
But even so it's nowhere near the power level of phasers or disruptors.
The only real threat to a federation ship comes from the massive amount of Firepower a star destroyer can bring to bare which could drain their Shields rather quickly.
Xenomorph Captain Vex Ghost of the brony community would that make the blasters and turbo lasers of the Star Wars universe more similar to the plasma torpedoes of the Romulus empire?
th-cam.com/video/w4JUxQe4P4g/w-d-xo.html
Imperial turbo lasers aren't technically lasers; they are blasts of high yield plasma energy, similar Romulan of Klingon disruptors.
@@MegaMan352 Disruptors generally dissolve matter while Turbolasers are an extemely powerful version of plasma called Hypermatter created using the so called Tibanna gas. Also the mistake is Star wars ships don't rely on Hyperspace routes they can travel through space where there are no routed through many many small jumps a feat we see Star destroyers perform. While this is vastly slower then normal Hyperspace travel it's still Magnitudes faster then warp travel
Wasn’t there an episode in Next Gen that had small fighter going at the Enterprise, armed with lasers, and Riker laughs saying they couldn’t even penetrate the Enterprise’s navigation shields. I love Star Wars, but the empire wouldn’t stand a chance.
Why would the cloaking devices confound the Empire? Cloaking devices would seem to exist in the Star Wars universe, evidenced by an Imperial officer stating "No ship that small has a cloaking device" in The Empire Strikes Back when the Millennium Falcon disappears off their sensors.
sdp9675 in one of the clone wars episode we could see a ship with a cloaking device
@@darkwolf4434 the Empire themselves are the ones who perfected Cloaking technology at this point . The Warlord Zsinj could even make a Cloaked Super star Destroyer so them being confused about it is completely ridiculous
@@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547 Makes sense considering that they had the Scimitar (Maul's ship in Ep 1) which had cloaking technology and was about as big as the falcon.
@@darkwolf4434 actually that's not what people in star wars call a Cloak. The scimitar had protection against sensors making it harder to detect while real cloaks make them absolutely undetectable for all sensors (until the Empire developed the Crystal Grav trap)
@@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547 But in the Maul comics it was cloaked
Seems like the ship cockpits in SW are analogish, monochrome and have more switches than a 747, while the ones in ST are all digital and all glass like a proper futuristic UFO. Plus Commander Data is much more advanced than C3PO so I think ST has newer machines (Dune reference) and better tech.
Agreed except Data ain’t no off the rack Star Trek tech as far as androids go. He’s basically 1 of a kind and attempts to recreate him have minimal success at best.
Okay, it was mostly fine up until you mentioned the blockade , it went downhill quickly after that.
It's pure conjecture that the Empire can block warp travel, that the tractor beam would be comparable to the Borgs or that they would even be able to plot hyperspace routes once they travelled through. The Federation from the initial contact would have analysed the technical limitations of the Empires ships and would know right away that conventional combat would not have worked.
DS9 would likely have been evacuated of all civilian crew and and be manned with small skeleton crew, knowing full well they no chance of surviving a direct engagement.
The weakness of the Empires ships would be numerous, slow manual targeting with limited firing arcs, limited shield coverage, limited range, limited manoeuvrability, no transporter technology and no way to intercept ships at range using warp.
Knowing this Star Fleet would keep their distance and only engage them at long range, Star Fleets Torpedo's are warp capable, a few dozen ships shooting hundreds of Torpedoes at them would have halted the advance right away, the Empires ships would have had no way to intercept the Star Fleet ships.
Tie fighters would never have got in weapons range to have been any threat, a high yield warhead would take out a swarm of tie fighters in a few button presses, they would be irrelevant, even if they managed to avoid torpedo's travelling fasting then the speed of light {no chance at all) they could engage the warp drive for a short burst and leave them for dust. They could even use transports to disable them, the tie fighters are not even shielded.
Consider the latest Star Wars movies use of bombers, a relatively small Star Fleet ship could just warp in and literally beam Torpedo's aboard the empire ships and warp out before they even locked on, they don't have full shield coverage so there wouldn't be much the empire could do to stop them.
All Star Fleet would have to do is build load of ships dedicated to one thing, warp in and release or transport their load and warp out, well technically they wouldn't even need to exit warp, they can fire them all while at warp and adjust their course afterwards.
The Federation Steamrunner class vessle would be devastating as well. It was designed to be a long range torpedo platform. They could pick apart Star Destroyers all day without ever getting inside the Empire ships' weapons ranges
all of this is pure conjecture.
@@RetractedandRedacted This whole exercise is pure conjecture, what's your point?
@@matthew3719 I'd be lying if I said I remember watching this video let alone making that reply so I cannot say I remember the point as it is obviously a retarded reply to make and is very difficult to read as a joke....
I always hated how things went wrong on a Starship at the perfect moment to further the plot line. That being said, I thought it was pretty funny that as soon as the Enterprise got into the Star Wars Universe their transporter technology was disrupted by " an unknown Force " . This is one of the best videos I've seen of its kind. Congratulations dude you're doing a great job! Liked, shared and SUBSCRIBED.
Can't tell if he doesn't know what he's talking about, or deliberately tip-toeing to avoid the inevitable deluge of tears from the Star Wars fundamentalists/fanbois. It should be absolutely self-evident that the technology and thinking in Trek is generations and generations far more advanced than Star Wars. That's not an insult to Star Wars, but the nature of it's setting relative to Trek's.
WAIT WAIT WAIT HOLD THE PHONE. He said The Federation so that means Vulcans, Humans, Andorrans, Tellerities, I could keep but I don’t think The Empire could handle federation.
DOAMA the force doesn’t exist in the Milky Way Galaxy, it is a phenomenon native to the Star Wars Galaxy, rendering force sensitives null. Palpatine would just be a creaky old man and Vader, an asthmatic in a suit.
DOAMA liking your own comment is the best way to get it noticed so I will continue to do that, I really don’t know the need for you to bring that up unless you felt threatened from my point and wanted to deduct from the main argument because deep down inside you know you’re wrong.
As for the rest - no you’re wrong. In both legends and official Disney cannon it has been stated numerous times that the Force is a phenomenon native to the Star Wars Galaxy not its universe. That’s really all I said, I didn’t mean to offend you’re obvious pro Star Wars stance as the Empire is millennia ahead in technology and would still win in the numbers game although the Federation would still put up a good fight (how in all this time the Empire hasn’t been able to develop transporter technology is beyond me); I too agree that Star Wars would win.
@Chace Thibodeaux The Star Trek universe has the Q. So check and mate.
@@benyseus6325 you don't know Whether it exists because It could also be that the force only can be used by guys who are born in the star wars galaxy what is the Logical solution.
id2020 _ that it only works in the Star Wars galaxy..... by force sensitives.
"Sir, they're locking... LASERS at us!"
"LASERS can't even penetrate our Deflector Shields, don't they know that?"
"Regulations do call for a Yellow Alert..."
"Hmmm, very old regulations, very well."
The Imperial ships won't stand a snowball's chance in hell against even a shuttle!
CarrowMind Turbolasers ARE NO GODDAMN LASERS. They are PLASMA-CANONS, for gods sake....
IronVader Starfleet shields block plasma too bruh
And for how long ? How long would the Enterprise withstand the concentrated fire of 5000 Plasma- and Ion-cannons, +2000 heavy Plasma- and 250 heavy Ion Cannons, +250 concussion missile launchers of a Executor-class Stardreadnought ? Not for long, until the Shield overheats and shuts down. Also, they don't use the "same" technology as the Old Republic anymore than the U.S Army of today uses the same technology of the American Civil War. Its based upon the same scientific principles, but its evolved to something more dangerous.
And the whole debate is pointless, as we have already discussed, I believe, as we simply can't determine the damage one tech would be able to do to the other, as we don't have specific numbers.
Christobanistan Huh? Plasma is an ionized gas
Christobanistan Plasma is a very hot gas which is almost to advanced to make weapons with
Ah yes, star trek ad before the video started... How could it be better
Starfleet is resourceful and has endured many hardships such as harsh wars and the Borg. I think it will win. If they closed off the wormhole somehow they could easily stop the Empire from going through.
Or just put replicator mines
@@thescarlethunter2160 Ah...I see you are a man of taste as well...oh Rom...
The Video doesn't analyze the weapons themselves too much.. It kind of assumes that both Starfleet and Empire ships have the same weapons.. They don't. The Empire uses various types of Projectile Cannons based in some kind of plasma gas or Lasers. Beyond that, we don't know much. Star Wars Cannon never Elaborats on the Details. But what I see in the Films is that Ship Mounted Weapons aren't that Different from Ship Mounted Guns of Modern Navies.. Just with a More Laser/future look to them.
But Starfleet weapons have a Great deal of Detail in Canon. For Starters Phasers are Impressive Weapons. A Phaser Beam is Super Heated Ionized Nadion Particles that Travel at the Speed of Light when Fired.. So they Never Miss unless there's some problem with Targeting.
We See in Empire Strikes Back what a Couple Shots from an Ion Cannon did to an Imperial Star Destroyer. If Ionized Energy has that effect on their ships, then they wont Stand Much of a Chance against Phasers.
Photon Torpedoes are also Impressive as they work by combining Mater and Anti-mater at a point Just before Impact. This produces a lot of Kinetic Energy upon Detonation. The Size of the Explosion will depend on the Yield of the Warhead, or How much Mater and Anti-mater you put in the Torpedo. This makes a range of Explosion from enough to Destroy a House, or Destroy a City.
So if a Starfleet ship goes up against an Imperial Star Destroy, my Money's on the Starfleet ship.. all the way.
All the Starfleet ship would have to do is maneuver around the ISD while Firing Phasers at it. With its Impulse Engines, it could Run Circles around the ISD in Seconds as Impulse is Half the Speed of Light. it would be important for the Starfleet ship to keep going fast and don't stay in one spot in order to avoid the ISD's Shots as they only travel at Sublight Speeds, but are Still fast.
Once the ISD has lost its Shielding from constant Phaser Fire, the Starfleet ship could finish off the ISD with Several Volley's of Photons.. But Considering the Humane Tendencies of Starfleet, they would be Unlikely to do this. Just Neutralize the Threat, and then move on.
Put Thrawn in charge of the invasion and you'll be able to watch a massive fireworks show. Thrawn would take more support vessels like an Arquitens-class light cruiser once he learns of the nimble ships.
Interesting. With Commander Data and an entire planet full of Vulcans being his opponents it really could end up in a game of wits.
@@DrFrankNStein-sf2ww
"I can't compete with you physically, and you're no match for my brains."
...
"In that case I challenge you to a battle of wits."
Agreed. They also should have sent Thrawn to represent the Empire. Tarkin may be a brilliant strategist, but he is still relatively straightforward and usually keeps the same style of strategies. Thrawn's brilliance outshines him, as he is not only a brilliant strategist, but a brilliant mind in his own right. Unlike Tarkin, he not only approaches a problem from a military position, but also a philosophical one. And he doesn't hesitate to completely change his approach if necessary.
@@raenfox Thrawn commits warcrimes without making it look like war crimes.
You bring up an excellent point. The Empire (star war) have pre determined paths mapped out. NO SUCH MAP exists in Star Trek. This allow gives Star Trek advantage
Star Trek has a stellar cartography navigation section on every ship, as shown in "Generations."
SW ships can still hyperdrive without mapped lanes. It's just much slower going and riskier.
The fact that he takes out one of STs tech advantages in his opening line "Trasporter" tells me everything I need to know. Then proceeded to forget that STs have computer targeting systems that have shown to destroy multiple small ships at once. The Empire wouldn't stand a chance.
Shoot the little guys, let the big guy eat you. Smart.
James Tiberius Kirk
Enough said!
Why is Kirk better than Prichard? 2 words
FUNKY SIDE BURNS
Nonono
Sisko
Did that even need to be said? Wasn't that just the obvious answer? Wait 39 years from when Generations is set, get caught in the nexus, prevent kirk from being killed, chase the nexus, put kirk back in then tell him to go back to the Enterprise B, give him the coordinates of the wormhole, he'll find a way to close it off, I mean come on, he's James T Kirk hell find a way, he went back in time and brought Humpback whales back to earth, Just prevent the whole scenario. Plus, it'll make Checkov happy. The last time we saw any of the original crew they looked so sad.
also... Lightspeed is slower than say, Warp 9.9. Hyperspace was an alternate dimension, and to reach it, pilots were required to travel at Lightspeed. *Which is the speed of light* Warp speed is faster than light. enough said.
The Empire would be annihilated by 1 star fleet ship game over
Lord this is so inaccurate!
The Expanse is a series that takes the reality of gravity in outer space.
"Star Fleet, the Klingons, and the Kardashians begin amassing a small fleet on their side of the wormhole."
Cardassians *
@@threeofnine346 Thank you.
@@threeofnine346 Autocorrects strikes back.
"Tie fighters and bombers swarm federation ships..." what a bullish... this ships don't have any shields and have very limited shotting rang and have to dogfight old school 2WW way. While federation have advanced targeting computers that can blow them extremely fast from very far away and even couple at same time and because they don't have shields every fit = kill. It would be like 1 WW trench attack every federation ship will kill hundreds tie fighters before they get close.
And same thinks would happen in fight between capital ships. Federation ships would be able to hit imperial ships with pin point accuracy while imperial star destroyers would be just shotting blind. And smaller ship like defiant which weapons are as powerful as much bigger star ships would be almost impossible to hit and remember defiant have clocking so when you get close they will clock and emerge some where else far from your ships so it basically would be very annoying bee you cannot kill but it still be able to kill you.
Yes, and I think that Star Trek ships are more powerful than Imperial ships, Sovereign class can reliably take on a Star Destroyer, and 2 Post Dominion war Galaxies can take on 2 or more Star Destroyers, a Defiant squadron can take on an Imperial task force of a few Star Destroyers and Arquintens and smaller, and ST torpedoes are much more powerful that SW torpedoes and missiles and can easily take down shields on Star Destroyers and destroy them, Phasers and similar can blow holes in the hulls of Star Destroyers and also Federation ships have very unique weapons like deflector beams and so on.
Let it be known that I am much more a fan of StarWars than Startrek. I prefer the ships, the universe and the lore. I love the look of their ships, the amount of firepower they have and their size. I want it to be clear that I am 100% biased towards StarWars on this case.
There is absolutely no way the Empire wins on any scenario. In a war, the Federation would win and crush the Empire. There is no debating this but I will at least explain my arguments:
The technology in the StarTrek universe is simply better by too great a factor.
1: Federation weapons are much more accurate than in StarWars to a degree that is not even comparable. You can see ships miss at close range during the battle of Endor but phasers are accurate even at very long range. Accurate enough that it can target specific parts of a ship. Phasers are so accurate and fast that they entirely negate the threat of Imperial tie fighters. This is shown in an episode of Next Generation where a bunch of fighters gets destroyed in a few seconds. On the other hand, federation shuttles have shown to be very sturdy (taking several direct hits from warships) and possess similar weaponry (albeit less powerful).
2: There is no real way to determine which ships have stronger shields, but we know for a fact that shields in starwars only stops energy weapons. They do not stop physical objects. Startrek's shields stops both. This means that photon torpedoes would go right through the shields of an ISD. Remember how I mentioned that federation weapons are more accurate? That works with torpedoes too which means an ISD's bridge is an easy target.
3: Food replicators alleviate the logistical need of the federation while the Empire has to worry about feeding ~ 40 000 people per ISD. Regular replicators allow for fast construction of starships and other things needed for the war effort.
4: Transporters allow federation troops to be deployed anywhere on a planet almost instantly while the Empire has to use troops transports. Even an ISD with it's 7 500 stormtroopers need to rely on a limited number of shuttles which would require about 50 trips to deploy the entire garrison.
5: Not only are federation ships faster and more maneuverable, they've demonstrated their ability to fight at light speed. It would be really easy for a federation ship to get behind a StarDestroyer and stay there.
Seriously, i could go on and on and just pile up more reasons but I think i made my point. It sucks but, i made my peace with it.
Yes, you made it, because you are objective, while author is not, he is just a fanboy, who, to show his favorite side win, disabled almost all Star Trek powers, while enabling all Star Wars ones, including this, that shouldn't work at all. In short, this video as great as it is, is beyond bias....
Ps: Sorry for late reply. I posted few comments years ago, but they were mostly deleted, so in a way, this is a re-post.
I’d love to see Han Solo and quark trying to one up each making a deal.
Stopping at 3:03 to note this: You have transporter tech not working "for some unknown reason."
Not good enough. You can't just arbitrarily exclude Starfleet advantages while leaving Empire tech intact. That's what we call "cherry picking."
Picard:"Q... remember that favor you owed me"
but seriously, the weapons are completely different, the phasers would probably go through the satr was shields, excuse my grammar, im tired and wanna make this quick, all star wars ships have obvious weakpoints, and the empire consists of pretty dumb people who are trained to only follow orders. The federation is much smarter, and could easily find the weakspots and destroy the star destroyers.
Thank you for saying this people really doubting star trek
Also, Star Fleet weapons gave MUCH longer ranges than in Star Wars. Phasers alone go out to about 500 Kilometers. Torpedoes to approximately 3 Million. Short warp hops and an above average Photorp loadout wins most battles.
"Star Fleet has experience with such shenanigans"
Hahahahahaha
ok.....i love the video...however you cant disregard the technical aspects of both Starfleet and The empire.
the empire has superior numbers yet that is the only real advantage the empire has.
100% Agreed
bigcountry443 not true. Star Wars has the tech. Based on actual footage a single turbolaser has about an 80 Gigaton yield while phasers and photon torpedoes are in the Megatons. In both universes, asteroids have been a target of weapons and while a Star Destroyer completely vaporizes the asteroid, the Federation can't even do that with a photon torpedo with several "isotons" of yield. Shields are better in Star Wars. They will block transporter, will take more damage as is evidenced above based on weapons, and don't have a modulation frequency which makes them impervious to the standard tactics employed by the Federation. Power wise the Destroyer wins because it's reactor has the power of a small sun. Federation weapons are effective out to 10km, tractor beam out to 5km. Imperial turbolasers have a theoretical range of several light years, never been tested, and tractor beams have a range of 120km. At standard sunlight speeds Star Wars is faster so using his theory that an interdictor would stop warp well Federation has no advantage there. Species 8472 would be the only competition to the Empire in terms of weapons and military.
Well, here is the thing about the force in star wars. It sometimes seems more of an excuse than a real fact. So many holes in the plot, or physics in general are explained by the force. Could the force stop a photon torpedo? A quantum torpedo? No.
SFPlaysMC - Minigames Actually yes the force can. Something that I think a lot of SW fans and especially ST fans overlook is the fact that it is the living Force. The force is more like an entity. It controls destinies and fates. You could be the most powerful force user in the galaxy but if it is your time to die then young Skywalker you will die.
*Star Destroyer* : Hold on a second, I'm making some calibrations.
Enterprise:Wheeeeeeeeeeee~*warps away*
Not even close!
There is no evidence that Imperial interdiction ships would have any effect on a ship equipped with warp drive.
Turbo lasers would hardly even dent the shields on a Constitution class ship, let alone actually penetrate the hull, while a single photon torpedo would vaporize a star destroyer.
Assuming that the Empire could even target a Federation ship that can move at warp speed and turn on a dime, a Federation ship could actually outrun the laser beam itself.
Imperial tractor beams would be worthless as the Federation ship need only turn on its engines, which would result in either the Federation ship breaking free, the tractor beams being violently ripped from their emplacements, or the g forces of the resulting acceleration killing everyone on board of the Imperial ship.
The technological difference would be like a modern day frigate in a battle against multiple 18th century wooden ships with sails and canon.
Ground forces however would be more evenly matched.
Shawn Sears The Interdictor wuold pratically destroy any ship at warp, because during to warp you use gravity to manipulate the space.
Shawn Sears And you know all of this because .....?? There are several sources for both sides of this in Real-World Measurments. According to those, a single Anti-fighter rocket from the Slave-1 possess more than double the Megatons of Power than a Photon Torpedo......
If you are taking this information from any site similar to stardestroyer.net, then please go away
Sulphurous Those are simply the official numbers given by Lucasfilm. Wether they make sense physically or not, these have been approved and made canon, which means they are whats true for SW. And if we do ignore the official numbers given, this debate is completely pointless, as we then have exactly nothing to compare anymore, because without hard numbers, it's just guesswork that can't be proven.
It's only debatable with that rather convenient massive time shift though. A long time ago vs hundreds of years from now. What happens without a time shift or worse, having it go the other way?
Föderation ships have not any problems with them (You see this in one TNG episode), also you need only one Quantum Torpedo to destroy a StarDestroyer or the Deathstar.
At a specific location. The death star won't be exploding unless it's on the specific direction on where luke dropped his.
@@deletedaccount7211
Just use sensors to scan for weaknesses like exhaust ports. Then program the torpedo to home in on the emissions from the exhaust.💥
@@qasimmir7117 That actually makes sense.
I think a Q could fix the situation.
Dubby Plays Or cause the situation
causing it seems more likely lol he's use vader as a tooth pick
But why would they? It's more likely they cause it like the first time we see the Borg was because Q
Nah the force celestials would flick Q of their shoulder like a piece of dirt
Dubby Plays Yea
Look at my tactical analysis
You did forget about sunlight speeds though...
TIE Fighters go only 1,000 kph, TIE Interceptors go 1,250 kph.
1/4 Impulse is 1,852 kpS, Full Impulse is 1/4 Light Speed, or just under 75k kpS, Max Impulse is HALF the Speed of Light and is almost 150k kpS.
Starfleet ships can literally outrun ANYTHING the Empire has at sublight.
"Sir, the Alien Capital Ships are outrunning our Interceptor Starfighters!"
"What?! impossible!"
Very good video and quite in-depth! One thing I’d like to point out is that the federation usually just beams torpedoes into the enemy ships, boarding teams just are too risky.
Philip Btr That won’t work if shields are up for the ISD
7:00 imma have to stop you right there, because Star Trek is known for its pinpoint accuracy
The empire is just very very inaccurate in the movies, but they aren't really like that. You just underestimate their possibilities.
The Star Trek universe has vastly superior weapons and shielding. Your whole analysis is absurd.
The Empire would absolutely shit Star Destroyer size bricks if they bump into the Organians, Metrions, Olympians (well, Apollo, assuming he's still around somewhere), or Q. There don't seem to be any similarly powerful entities in the Star Wars setting. The Metrions and at least one of the Q (and, again, Apollo, assuming) are notably not shy about intervening when the mood suits them. And the Organians have been known to get sick and tired of the lesser, material species fighting too much in their vicinity and just decide to make them go sit in their respective corners and think about what they've done.
So, the Empire could make inroads into the Milky Way, but only until they manage to tread on the toes of one of the sleeping giants that exist in that setting.
Heck, hard-pressed enough, the Federation could send a group of high-psi-rating people to the Galactic Barrier in a ship and generate a squadron of Gary Mitchells (as it were). The Sith Emperor and chief flunky are just two people, after all. It would be a desperate measure, both due to the Federation attitude toward enhancing or mutating humans and because no one really knows if the Mitchell-type mutates have any upper limit to their power levels (a very real potential for frying pan to fire shift in the strategic situation exists). But pushed far enough, and assuming none of the already godlike species or beings intervene, it would be a potential last desperate move.
Bro just forgot Star Fleet ships have weapons...
How cute.
Win in a single comment
😂 oh snap! literally a Q can just snap the Star Wars universe out of existence. Just one Q! 😱😏👑
Hey Q, would it be more interesting to smash a whole group of the most interesting universes together? Make real chaos? Trek, Wars, Star Gate, BSG, Eve, Halo, Mass Effect, StarCraft, Warhammer 40k and Babylon 5? Now that's adorable.
So federation tech beats the empire hands down, but the force would be the only issue left to over come. However, if they could call in a favor from Q, your right. Even the force would not save them.
@@sagesheahan6732 Well h=// Sage why not just throw Farscape, Lexx, Firefly, Dr Who, Lost in Space, Alien, the Predator and Star Ship Troopers in there while we're at. Maybe Buck Rogers and Blake's & can get a piece of the action! All of that. I want all of that.
Federations starts to lose... *sigh* Fine, bring out the spore drive, time to regain the speed advantage.
Well shit, so much for the spore drive. Can someone go to the 33rd century and borrow it for a few days? Just slingshot around the nearest star or something or call this guy named Daniels
Spore drive doesn't exist on 25th century
They already have the speed advantage.
Interesting take.
However, i would disagree on the interdictor effect on Starfleet. Remember, it's a gravity well generator. SW starships require known routes. That's why they can pull ships out of hyperspace because their engines don't work well around gravity wells... especially un-plotted (or artificial gravity wells). According to Lieutenant Commander Data, starship navigation automatically takes into account the gravity wells of planets and systems and this has no effect on warp drives (see Star Trek: Generations). They would not be affected by the interdictor... They would only have to alter their navigation to take into account the massive gravity well that suddenly appears next to the worm hole. That's my theory and i'm sticking to it.
So... Can you warp in a hyperdrive loop?
Bias for Star Wars I sense. The empire would get their ass handed to them with ease. It would be like sending our military from today to fight world war 1 and 2.
Bias for star treck i sense
@@jean-alexandre5594 Yeah, I lack the techno geek amassed here, but it seems to me it would end up a sheer numbers game. The Empire exists for one purpose, military expansion and control, and all of their assets, energies and technologies are used for that purpose alone. While the Federation ships would have the maneuverability and a few other advantages on their side, I would think in the end they'd have a hard time up against the onslaught of the numerical superiority and firepower of the massive Empire ships. It would also stand to reason the Empire, should a prolonged conflict ensue, would be far more capable of building and employing war vessels and armies. But, it's still fun to think about.
And after 11 minutes and 45 seconds, still no one has done a proper and real in depth analysis video of what would happen if the Empire from the Star Wars gallaxy invaded the Milky Way gallaxy in the late 24th century.
This analysis can not be done while making such wild assumptions that, for some reason, transporters don't work over there and that warp drive does. Furthermore, any analysis would require comparing the technical specs of both sides from a common standard of referance. Even if each universe has slightly different laws of physics, both sides would encounter each other only in one universe or the other so the laws for that universe would apply to both sides equally. A standard comparative model must be build by which to properly compare their technical capabilities. So far, I have not seen that. Better luck next time.
Daniel Havens , Even says it’s in a galaxy far far away, so probably still in our universe....Federation and other alpha/beta quadrant governments would crush the empire
Imperial Star Wars fleets have even less chance in Star Trek than in New Eden.
The Empire was defeated by a ragtag group of rebels.
The Federation routed the Dominion, and infected the Borg, both civilizations far beyond them in power.
Nuff said.
I wouldn't say routed the Dominion, it was close fought battle, an who knows how it would have turned out if Section 31 didn't infect the changelings with a virus. A good taste of the Dominion own methods.
If only u know the full story :(
The fan-boying is real.
Seems unlikely that the UFP would be so outclassed, whilst they took heavy losses in the dominion war they would be rebuilding their fleet and it seems very illogical to assume that they would be focusing on peaceful exploration ships .. given the number of conflicts the Federation faced in the last 20 years leading up to the dominion war surely they would be focusing on more military ships even if only of a defensive nature. Klingons would just rebuild their warfleet. Bajor would see heavy reinforcements and defences put in place to prevent another dominion attack (lest the prophets attention wander elsewhere .. they defeated the dominion expedition to the alpha/beta quadrant, they did not defeat the entire dominion so the threat is still there). Unshielded snubfighters against starfleet ships? Not a chance, they'd die pretty quickly, too quickly to do any significant harm against Starfleet capital ships (there's been at least one eposide showing phaser banks firing in quick sequence against unshielded ships). Finally, why would the Empire even invade? they are aware of other civilisations on their borders that they haven't attacked (the Chiss), tactically they're going to see the wormhole as a choke point, easily defended by either side and if the federation appear to be more focused on diplomacy than warfare, are unlikely to be seen as a threat to the Empire.
Also it is strange that the federation scouting mission did not get word of the beginning of the rebel alliance.That would be an exploitable advantage. They would discover that the Empire is a recent phenomenon andemerged from a corrupted Galactic Republic that shared many of the same Democratic principles of the Federation. They would learn that the galaxy is on the verge of rebellion and (just as Spock predicted withthe Mirror Terran Empire) an Empire built on brute force will sooner or later be overthrown.Starfleet strategists would see that the best way to tie down the Empire is to supply arms to the Rebels.I could see Star Fleet infiltrating commando teams into the Empire to make contact with the Rebels andfind out what happened to the Jedi.
Nigel Brodt-Savage The Defiant class Starships
The Empire has nothing comparable
They didn't attack the Chiss because they were their allies the Empire also secretly conquered most of the Unknown Regions in a cooperation with the chiss and made the Extemely massive Empire of the Hand there which was under the lead of Thrawn. please only talk shit About stuff you understand.
@@TheLAGopher Spoiler:Part 2 shows that Feds got contact with Rebels.
ST:TNG, Season 2, Ep. 4, "The Outrageous Okona". When an unknown ship approaches the Enterprise, Worf reports "Captain, they are now locking LASERS on us," to the amusement of the rest of the bridge crew. "Lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shields," says Picard. This suggests that scattering the effects of laser weapons is already a fairly easy feat for Federation shields, and I would presume this is true even for higher-powered ones, as Picard doesn't even ask what kind of strength those lasers have; it's not even worth consideration at any conceivable magnitude (except maybe the Death Star's). Now, "turbolasers" are hypothesized by some to actually be a form of plasma weaponry with the wrong moniker, but we've also seen that ST ships can survive in the corona of a star for brief periods of time so long as they can maintain main power, so I'd be dubious if even a turbolaser barrage would so handily drop their shields. If anything I think it would be a battle of attrition, with phasers being a slow burn against a ship with so much mass as a Star Destroyer, and the Star Destroyer continuously hammering the shields of the Federation ship in the hopes that they can overwhelm their energy reserves and replenishment rate rather than hoping to punch right through.
And of course, if we're talking about post-Dominion War Trek, you'd have small ships like the Defiant capable of utterly wrecking large Imperial vessels simply by virtue of agility alone, like a Star Wars fighter assault but with transphasic torpedos being shot into hangar bays and reactor vents with ease. This isn't to say the Federation would fare well invading the Star Wars galaxy either, though; they simply wouldn't have the personnel and material resources to conquer a galaxy so densely populated. At most I think it would be a stalemate; Imperial ships get taken out the moment they come through the wormhole, and Federation ships stay on their own side not wanting to spend 200 years trying to take over a whole galaxy, nor having the kind of ethics that would allow such a conquest.
My thoughts, anyway.
Wouldn't the Federation have incorporated some of the Breen technology where they can shut down power to starships with one hit?
The Federation doesn't rely on sheer firepower.
High Yield torpedos laced with borg nanoprobes would be more than a match against the Empire.
Between the two, the would be thousands of Imperial hulks adrift with no power and no means to survive or escape.
And the Empire has Ion weapons. Ion weapons shut down ships to
But the Milky Way Ships use Electro-plasma System (EPS) Right? Since all Star Wars ships just only use some primitive electric currents, compared to EPS that was more efficient.
I think old palpi would pursue more to the likes of diplomatic espionage before even considering armed conflict
Thepic Anominasis that's true, lure the fly, get the technology, adapt it then... execute order 66, also, no siths?
If they can defeat the Dominion, they can defeat the Empire. That's it.
It's amazing the PLOT ARMOR that all the things that the Federation have as an advantage just simply stops working in this new galaxy..........