It used to be that way. In the 90's, early 2000's, every story was unique and for the most part it didn't matter which movie you went to, coz the quality was pretty high that almost any movie was good. Today.... a good movie is a needle in a haystack, you have to search between all the garbage of infantile superhero comic soapserie bs and all the vile politics with no good story movies, that have particularly risen since Hollywood thought it had to 'educate' us when Hillary Clinton lost the election.... sorry guys, I only have to look in the rear mirror to see what marxism did and the hundreds of millions it killed, which you of course conveniently leave out of your 'lecturing', it's like talking about Nazi's and conveniently leaving out the Holocaust.... yeah no, do what you do best, making a movie and leave politics to people with an actual brain, okay?
A24 is not Cinema, It’s a pretentious film company that tries way too hard to make “Art”. It’s nowhere near the authenticity that real Cinema requires. Period.
I could tell the studios were abandoning him when his movie Silence was virtually unpromoted in 2017. I found it to be inspiring and thought-provoking, but mainstream Hollywood swept it under the rug to encourage moviegoers to exclusively attend big-budget blockbusters. It’s too bad that very few movies aimed toward the artsy crowd are made by Hollywood anymore.
@@rustyshackelford4224Uh…. No idea, but I feel “The Lighthouse” & “Sin City” (or the movie that had people shaded in specific colors, iirc) give us a glimpse. Never watched either of them, but they seem really interesting.
Marvel movies are like fast food. It isn’t good for you and are designed to be made quickly. They feel great when you’re in it but the moment it finishes you realise you’re gonna feel terrible for the rest of the day
A prophet is honored everywhere except his own land. Scorsese’s comments initially drew wide spread scorn from TH-cam critics and the public alike. Then, as the genre of superhero spectacle movies are brought low, everyone is reading Scorsese’s words as prescient. Just like Marvel films, TH-cam video essayist are more often than not reactionary and driven by flash rather than substance. Driven by turning a quick buck rather than making something that lasts, the proliferation of marvel/starwars/etc content is going to eventually be a curious footnote from this era.
Let me also say, before pointing the finger at studios (who deserve a large part of the blame), both fans and content creators have also played a role in the current condition of film. We need to consume with more discretion if we want to see change.
As someone that’s always been with the MCU even atm. I agree with his comments.also Why do we always have to compare? Like mentioned the mcu means a lot to me. But I am tried sometimes that people bring up unnecessary topics. We do need more different movies. Great video.
Thank you for the comment Zuriishere! I feel like most MCU fans are like you: They are just fans of movie period, and we want as many good movies as possible! It's the ones that only care about their own franchise that don't think about the consequences of how big it has gotten.
I think Avatar was the start of all this not Marvel. MCU has its share of blame but I think it started with Avatar and how the most impressive thing about it was how much it cost at the CGI world which wasn’t that important in the end. Also right that movies have no quotable lines. They have good lines but nothing memorable. Vast majority of movies aren’t worth remembering, and you’ve already parted with your cash by the time you realize that. For me a great movie is a byproduct of its great parts. The music, the photography, the STORY, editing, the performance. Everything has to come together. And the best stories are timeless. The stories themselves are the moral lessons or discussion, they don’t have them tossed in the way “certain movies and shows” today only know how to do. They don’t talk down to people.
John Campea sounded to me like he was looking for a reason to remind the audience that he doesn't like billionaires. _Billionaire = BAD, EVIL._ I'll bet he doesn't have anything bad to say about Jay Z, however. 🤔
People still discuss Wolf of Wall Street even to this very day. After the last season of GoT, it has been collectively forgotten by the internet Also, even his own argument is wrong. You cannot relate to the red wedding scene on a surface level. It is not like anything that the average joe is going to experience in their daily life. So people were not interested in that scene because they related to that in any way, but because it was shock value and upped the stakes considerably.
Why does this video say people were defending SheHulk after Martin made these comments? SheHulk came out in 2022, 3 years after Marin made these comments in 2019.
That's why Im a big fan of A24. They are big on the small budget, total creative freedom model. They churn out a lot of stinkers & some amazing, out of left field masterpieces. Creativity & art isn't a formula to crack. It is a bunch of creative people throwing shit at a wall and occasionally things will stick
Marvel movies are dangerous? thats a weird statement... either audiences enjoy the movie or not. I really don't think its thats complicated. Thats like saying Justin Bieber is dangerous for music lol.
Well they are dude you would have to be completely blind if you don’t see Hollywood become more reliant on just endless franchises and general audiences just watching and talking about that
@@chaseazarian If the venue is releasing good enough movies that the general audience wants to pay for who are we to judge? If the movies are terrible the internet will s%#& on it.
@@takumifujiwara9181 It’s not about you personally it is film in general Look at the releases of big studios in the 90s and 80s compared to today. It is becoming mostly just franchise driven and nostalgia from the 70s-90s with the virtual extinction of the mid budget smaller films constantly getting shoved to the side and unless you’re a Christopher Nolan or Tarantino it virtually impossible to get an original big budget film made. So yeah you truly have to be completely ignoring everything to not see the danger to cinema it is giving. With a lot of modern films being referred to as content only proves his point more .
Marty’s right because every MCU movie, at least now, only exists to make money. That’s all it is. Superhero films are now just an exercise in “how much money can we make?” And here’s the thing, Marty didn’t say they were bad, inherently. Just that they were a different kind of thing to what he calls cinema. Just to note, I actually do like a decent chunk of the MCU, especially the Captain America films. I also like McDonald’s. It’s just that if given the chance, I’d rather go to a nice Italian restaurant where the chef clearly put all their heart and soul into a meal, rather than an assembly experience. And there’s the thing. The MCU is an assembly line. But Scorsese only makes mobster movies, you know. My favourite mob movie is Kundun.
Actually Martin's thoughts abt Marvel being NOT CINEMA was during when the avengers endgame was hot for the whole year. People were completely on the Marvel's side on this one. I was too. Cuz telling the avengers movies weren't CINEMA was kinda wrong cuz these movies are made to watch as a celebration in theaters. I would disagree Martin's words during that time. The best example for why Martin is wrong are the Harry Potter movies. These movies are completely Serialized so that u would have to follow the previous movies in order to understand the latest one. Where tf was Martin back then lmao😂 But i gotta agree with Martin after Phase 4 started with Wandavision, everything went to crap. The reason i dislike this phase was that, the movies are completely dependent on the disney+ series. Already most phase 4 movies were trash and then Doctor strange 2's convoluted, stupid and cheezy plot was dependent on the wandavision series lmao smh. Also too much content. I don't even care abt most characters in phase 4 except for Spidey, the guardians and Loki. This Phase made me care less for freakin' THOR. Congratulations MARVEL 😂 And Marvel's still persistent on releasing movies like 'Marvels' to the theaters. Like who tf cares lol. The only good thing abt Marvel right now is the Loki series.
I never liked Marvel movies. I remember how groundbreaking Iron Man was in 2008 - and it still holds up today - but I could never get past how bleak it felt. Remember the pizza from NYC? Cold, just like the entire movie. Oh, and the Audi product placement was obnoxious. Since then, every Marvel movie has been the same formulaic thing. I cannot find any aspect through which to relate, because everything I am seeing on screen is entirely fake. I want to watch a movie at least whose story line phases me, but Marvel movies cannot even do that much. The only one I was able to enjoy decently well was Thor (though I forgot whether or not I saw the sequel), as it felt less ordinary in several ways. Maybe it had a more human element to it - I'm not sure.
i don’t know if my frustration and anger is misplaced or not but i truly detest what the MCU has become, because it’s soo obvious who they think they’re writing these movies for . they’ve in essence bastardised fans of Marvel in its entirety because this isn’t just your least favourite uncle coming in to stay with you and he just has a room to himself , no… he’s now moved in and made the whole house his . this making even the comic fans feel out of place because of how the comics are now shifting to lend themselves better to a movie adaptation… in essence telling a more watered down , toned down , less decisive versions of the stories they used to tell . these corporations forget that is the people that made them big , not just themselves and when you start creating things for yourself and not the people , i really get pissed off at that .
I've really started understand Martin's viewpoint he's not wrong to criticize this. I'm a die-hard marvel fan like anyone else but even I got to admit the only really good ones THIS YEAR were across the spider verse and guardians. And those weren't just good blockbuster movies they were actually good FILMS. Good story, characters, writing. I can rewatch those 2 like I can with a film like Ridley Scott's original alien. That's what Martin's trying to say that the actual integrity and passion of filmmaking is getting lost. I've really started to open up to lower budget indie films and I hope others do the same. Films like that deserve a chance and I don't want Cinema as an art to die permanently.
Love this comment Rogue! Glad to see you are digging these videos 🙌 That is exactly what I'm trying to get at: Telling great STORIES in these movies is so important, instead of consuming the same recycled content over and over again. Love to hear you are expanding your horizon a bit, because there is so much great stuff out there! Hope you experience some new favorites soon!
The fact that we're still talking about this four years after Scorsese's initial comments really says something. I think most Marvel defenders understand deep down that there's a lot of truth in his words. I can anticipate that in ten years, people will be making essays about the downfall of the MCU. And Scorsese's comments won't be just a footnote.
He has a good point but definitely a hater when saying it's not real cinema lol. Logan and taxi driver are both great. Is Joker in dark night not real cinema?
@@thialhoinj1971 If you read his full story, which he wrote down in the New York Times to clarify things, you'd understand him better. He says that Marvel movies aren't cinema, they're something else. They're another type of art, theme park movies. And that's not an insult in itself. Theme parks and theme park movies should exist. But it becomes a problem when they start replacing other types of movies in theaters, the one's he considers cinema. And you do know that Scorsese was initially an executive producer of Joker, right? His comment on Marvel movies may sound like a generalisation. But he never meant to say that a comic book movie can never be cinema. He said that current Marvel movies, specifically MCU entries, are not cinema. So singling out a well made comic book doesn't really disprove his point.
@@Pssybart comic book movies with great acting, fighting scenes, great pictures are great cinema. Only different is mcu movies get more money and attention, that's more on the people than the genre. Thousands of bad non comic book movies have been made also. Jurassic park, avatar movies will always get and make more money.
@@thialhoinj1971 Everyone has their own definition of cinema. If you consider MCU movies cinema, you're not objectively wrong. I think the Spider-verse movies are cinema, because they revolutionized animation and the whole comic book style. The Dark Knight is cinema, because it pushed the boundaries of what adult comic book films can do. And I still think Scorsese is right about Marvel. MCU films have been really entertaining for over a decade. But the formula has grown really stale. They copy and paste the same formula, with little changes. Every movie has the same quirky humour. Every movie ends with a big CGI battle. Disney churns out 3 MCU films a year. And a film like Iron Man 2 or 3 doesn't exist to be a self contained story, it exists to be part of a larger franchise. The MCU is designed to go on forever, and therefore it can't take the same risks as a single movie can. You may get some heartfelt moments and an occasional character death sprinkled throughout. But each character is ultimately replaceable. So no, I don't think the only difference between Avengers and Killers of the Flower Moon is its box office success. MCU movies have never been as deep, thought provoking or subversive.
If you literally lived as long as he did, your whole perspective on cinema would not be the same from just watching movies for the last 20 years, he has so much knowledge of films for nearly 100 years. He has every right to form an opinion on anything on today’s generation of cinema He lived through the black-and-white pictures. He saw everything change. Nobody has the right to say he has no idea what he’s talking about when he literally has been alive for so long and saw History go back-and-forth.
He is correct. Nevertheless, art is subjective. Most film goers are people under the age of 40 with very short attention spans. These are not people who secretly long to be film directors. They are people going out on a date for the weekend. Why would they spend money to see a film they have no interest in? They have limited time and limited money and let’s just be real, most guys are just using the movie as an excuse to go on a date with a love interest.
@@mykilahsenwilliamsdorsey1495Marvel Movies are cinema. Now to what affect, that subjective. But if fits the definition. Moving pictures have been around for a little over the decade. They are the one of newest forms of media. At this point, it sounds like Martin is jealous because his movies don’t slay at the box office. But that’s usually how it works. High Concept or super artsy movies don’t usually make a ton of money. It’s almost like the directors are talking down to the audience. You can’t get mad at people for not wanting to watch your movie. They like what they like.
@@derrickdiggs8612 thousands bad of non comics book movies have been made. Why focus on bad comic book movies. Logan and taxi driver are both great. Marty is a legend but he sounds like a hater lol.
he's studied cinema his entire life, made outstanding films, and is highly regarded. apparently that's not enough credit to be able to say "marvel isn't that good" without redditors getting pissed
Says the one who believes "studying" something is a task you do as a side job. Gotta love people who think research is a hobby that you can do between dinner and bedtime.
@@ohausswhat? Are you saying that martin Scorsese studies film on the side? As if he isn't intimately familiar with film making and is a passionate film watcher? I'd imagine Martin has done a great deal of actual studying when it comes to film and not just weekend hobby work considering he's a phenomenal director. He certainly is far from ignorant about film
Yeah because people equally as qualified as him disagree. You shouldn’t get a pass on shitty opinions because you’re experienced or whatever. And I agree with the opinion btw
As a superhero & comic fan, I agree with this video. It doesn't seem like he doesn't want Superman at the table, but he also wants the struggling teacher who reconnects with her kid, the horror movie monster, the historical figure, etc. We all need this.
Coming from Batman himself! I appreciate the comment man, and I think that's all he wants at the end of the day. I think the headlines made it seem like he was attacking something, rather than just trying to defend what is important to him. Thank you for the comment!
@@chaseazarianhe is 100 percent right. While I love superhero lore, MCU when their good, Infinity War/Endgame are in my top 30 movies. This year almost every character drama, mid budget comedy and independent have bombed but every article treats them like "Awww silly little inde film thinks he's a big boy even though you had no chance of success" when a blockbuster bombs like Dial of destiny which Past Lives made 3.3 precent of the box office fo it they say make 100 excuses some more valid than others. This is a dramatic disparity that people want to talk about but don't do anything. A24 just announced that it has to pivot towards IP or action movies so they don't go bankrupt and audiences with blockbuster fetishes see these A24 action movies cause they were made for them. Barbenhimer was a stroke of luck nothing more then that. So god for bid Marty is a little angry. He needs to scream to the roof tops "Go fucking expand your tastes ! You won't like every prestige film you see just like how comic book movies are a roller coasters in quality. But when there's is nothing left to remake and all there's no original films now to remake later and cinema and Hollywood collapses blood will be on the general audiences hands. I am a cinaphile, a geek, and a future filmmaker who is terrified that by the time I get to Hollywood theres no room for my voice.
@@chaseazarianPeople being picky about what movies to see these days is Hollywood's fault cause they voted for this economy cause their former friend says mean things.
@@Thespeedrap He loves Jesus. I have not seen Silence but my view of Last Temptation is that he made a personal sacrifice being the Messiah and that he wasn't allowed to be flawed, or have true love or have any traditional life. The movie made me closer to Jesus.
I was watching this video about why blockbusters are starting to sucks now, and when they talked about the marvel franchise, they said that the executives actively seek directors that doesn’t have a creative vision and they had so much trouble with Edward wright because he wanted to apply his vision to ant-man so I think that’s an issue right there. It’s ultimately the executives that are in control, not the directors and what the executives want isn’t cinema but franchises design to sell merchandise and it’s affecting the rest of the industry
The MCU is a Kevin Feige production. To their credit, I think that is why it has been as successful as it has been, because if you want a guy to be in charge of something like this, he is the perfect choice. But having directors like Chloe Zhao direct something that feels the same as the rest of the franchise is just disappointing, which has me interested in what the new DC will look like as James Gunn has made it clear that the priority is giving directors the freedom to tell the stories how they want to tell them. I appreciate the comment Daryno!
I detest cinematic “universes” with uniform creative consistency. What made superhero movies in the 2000s was their varied directions and styles. I’d rewatch any of those movies again before I ever go back to any post 2010 marvel movie.
@@ValoricExactly. Instead of giving a new take on a familiar character, having their story flow well on its own *regardless* of the “cinematic universe” it’s apart of, and generally making something that isn’t “audible & visual junk food”; we get cookie-cutter movies that honestly feel the same, or fail to make us invested because god forbid they make the superhero struggle with anything for any other reason besides “plot demands it.” Funnily enough, the “Kaiju-verse” is probably the “”””cinematic universe”””” trope done *right* because every movie stands out on their own, *regardless* of the cinematic universe aspect. Sure it’s still Junk food, but they actually try *new* things with the characters and monsters; fight scenes that actually feel creative and/or interesting; tension and suspense, and so on. Hell, even *Godzilla vs Kong,* a crossover, doesn’t force you to watch the other movies to understand everything (yes, there are a few things, that still do, but they’re minor or secondary compared to the main plot). It has some things to still work out, but it’s generally a fun and engaging time with each movie.
It's hard to produce films as quickly as Marvel wants if you're allowing people to alter things for the sake of creativity. This is just the result of a cinematic universe. Marvel is planning projects years down the line and all of it needs to connect seamlessly for it to work. This inherently restricts creativity, and then on top of that it all needs to meet strict deadlines, which doesn't leave much room for making significant changes in the midst of production. This was always going to be the case when Marvel committed to the cinematic universe idea. There's too many cooks in the kitchen, there's too many projects being made at once. It's impossible to create that many genuinely great films, so the result is a couple good ones and a bunch of filler. They should've scrapped the MCU entirely after Endgame but Disney saw too many dollar signs so they've pivoted to a whole new saga that extends the MCU for another decade or so. The quality was already declining toward the end of the Infinity Saga, pretty clear they're just trying to squeeze every last drop out of it at this point.
I don't have any problem with franchises like The MCU, Stars Wars, Disney or The Conjuring Universe. In fact I like them a lot but I definitely agree with people like Martin that cinema should not be just dominated by these franchises, others filmes should also get a chance to shine. That's why I was so happy when movies like Top Gun Maverick 2, Oppenheimer and Barbie were so big in cinema recently.
But those three films are themselves perpetuate the ideas of Hollywood being dominated by franchise and recognizable IPs. Top Gun is a sequel to a well known 80s movie who have its huge share of merchandising and pop culture references. Barbie is a film based on a popular toyline with an expansive medium presence through cartoons, video games, etc. And though Oppenheimer is like the only one that isn’t a franchise, it is pretty much all part of the Christopher Nolan brand of movies.
@@BigK13372I also feel studios are going to take the wrong lesson from the Barbie-Heimer success stories. Barbie was a concept that could have tanked hard, but a talented filmmaker made a good movie tbh. Unfortnately, Studios will go ‘Mattel toy cinematic universe’ instead of looking for other talented filmmakers with risky concepts.
I'm with Marty. Cinema is music. Music is not just classic or jazz or rock or pop or hip-hop or electronic, etc; it's all of it and more. To limit cinema is just "Marvel movies" is like saying "music is just classical".
I’m sorry but how are you making a legit argument about this? Cinema is NOT music. You don’t see music, you hear it. Movies are a VISUAL medium, they use music in order to help illustrate what you are seeing and should be feeling but that is not the same. There are thousands and thousands of films I’ll bet you’ve never even seen that came about before you were an itch in your daddy’s pants. Do you bother watching them? No of course not. You can’t be bothered. It’s easier to criticize than create. Right? Marty is not the all time greatest bc as far as I understand history he didn’t invent it. He doesn’t get to dictate what cinema is or isn’t. It’s his OPINION! I don’t watch movies that either Marty approves or tells me to and neither should you. I’m sick of these wannabe film “geeks” telling ppl how they agree with Marty and cbm and specifically marvel ones are so horrible. Go do something else with your precious time. Read a book, go on an adventure or two or here’s an idea….Go Make A MOVIE of your own. What’s your excuse now? You ppl are the reason ppl can’t simply enjoy something, you have to be the proverbial wet blanket that ruins the fun. I have waited decades for Hollywood to finally get it right about cbm. I have watched countless horrible films both Oscar winners and losers, trashy films and artsy films and I said nothing. Now I finally get to see my heroes represented on the screen and you can’t simply wait your Fn turn? Grow up! Grow up and realize life doesn’t owe you anything. You want it, go and get it. Just stop making these moronic videos that I can’t seem to get rid of despite telling the algorithm I don’t like them. So now I’m going to haunt each one and rant how stupid and pointless this is.
As a Marvel fan, I've been having a hard time telling other fans "Uh, maybe we shouldn't be questioning whether MARTIN SCORSESE knows a thing or two about cinema." Thanks for the vid.
@@Mr.unknown.K Right do you know how many times I had MCU movie fans try to tell me , a marvel comic fan since the 80s that Deadpool was the first wise cracking fourth wall breaking marvel character? Despite me showing Johnny Storm was the first wise ass then Peter Parker with the sarcasm and wit and She Hulk was the first fourth wall breaking marvel character, they STILL tried to argue with me and others SMH Also the ones who act like World war hulk was the first hulk (yes Ive seen this) and had no idea grey hulk was the first hulk It's bad enough when they do it but these popular "Superhero" channels do the same thing and don't do their due diligence and the MCU fans just accept it as gospel The John Kransiski nonsense was so cringe, they don't even know who Reed Richards is or what his motivation is , they can't even give you a deep reason why John should be him , just because someone did a Photoshopped photo of him? That's their only reason? You're right I can't stand the MCU movie fans either
@@Chuck_EL It's sad cause I may not have read all that many comics but I've spent years reading wiki's and listening to youtubers explain some of the best comic book storylines beat by beat to me. I usually speak with utmost confidence on stuff I know about but I don't like to pretend I know something I don't. What grinds my gears the most about other MCU fans is the pretentious need to be a know it all. Saying "I don't/wouldn't know" is sometimes seen as shameful in certain groups. I can't really call myself an MCU fan anymore, though. I think the last time I thoroughly enjoyed myself at a MCU movie was Infinity War. Yes, I even had major gripes with Endgame.
The reaction of Joker/Arthur Fleck shooting Murray in a cinema was a perfect example why Indie/character driven stories are way stronger. Same goes for "Babylon" Jack Conrad and Manny.
even that isn't really a fair example, because they are relying in the Batman IP, of course, seen through a very unique lens, but still relying in a recognizeable IP.
I think Joker gets way more hate than it deserves, because people say "look at it just copying Scorsese". Sure there is influence from Taxi Driver and King of Comedy, but it is still clearly one of the few comic book films trying something DIFFERENT over the past decade. That Talk Show scene was super effective, and there is a reason it is already pretty iconic. Thank you for the comment Danny!
After watching Joker, I always felt that it didn't need to be based on an IP or any relation to the comic book supervillain. Take away the names, the setting's name and you got a film that works super well on its work. But it used an IP to gain attention. And if it didn't have Joker's name slapped onto it, the film wouldn't have had much attention.
Scorcese was always right. Just look at how an endless stream of superhero movie has led us. Cinema as a whole is stagnant asf. Nobody wants to take risks. Disney is putting out mediocre remake after mediocre remake, each one performing worse than the last. Everyone wants a franchise that they can milk to death. You have to actually dig through tons of superhero/franchise garbage to find decent movies these days.
I'm old enough to know damn well this didn't start with superheroes. I need y'all young folk to take a step back and look at the Friday the 13th film series and how movies have ALWAYS been in regards to 'make as much vague shit for teenagers as you can afford to make'. Why is it in overdrive now and those movies are the leading box office draws? Because people on the bottom end of the economic spectrum (and teenagers) have a LOT more money to spend now than they did before the 1980s. What they want to see is a much higher contributing factor to what gets produced. You can also blame my generation and Reaganomics for making Ghostbusters, a film for adults, turn into Ghostbusters 2, a film for 9 year olds like me who made studios more money tugging on our parent's pant legs to go see movies than if they had just made those movies for our parents to begin with.
Martin Scorcese is absolutely right about the way movies are made in an assembly line scenario these days. That is what he meant. We can all agree that Blade, The Dark Knight etc. are great movies. He did not say superhero films are a bad genre at all. I mean Scorcese himself basically remakes the same movie over and over, but he does it with passion and in a way that makes you care. He does not have a room of 12 writers fresh out of college.
@@darkman7009 david fincer, G del toro , Gordon Pelé , the cohen brothers, guy Ritchie ,Mike Flanagan and more , there are many more but you got the point.
I actually didn't get much about Martin's compliments on the MCU but thanks for the clearing it up. I do agree with this. The older I got the more I started to notice comedy or romance films aren't shown in theaters as often as superhero movies and it boggles my mind that Hollywood is relying so much on 2 things. 1, recognizable IP and 2, the superhero genre. They are leaning on to these because of their popularity which sucks because it doesn't give other movie genre and original stories the spotlight. Watching this has really started to make me appreciate the Philippines when it comes to its cinema because here, we're not just releasing superhero or franchises but also our own original films, either romance, comedy or horror. While I was always not a huge fan of my country's filmmaking and storytelling, there is a uniqueness to it and there are some Philippine movies or TV shows that I love. Another great video man.
Loved reading this comment! Especially with your Spider-Man profile picture lol! But I agree with you, it's not that we don't want superhero movies, because some of them are great (damn, I just realized I could have mentioned The Boys in this video too and didn't!)! It's the fact that we have slowly pushed any other kind of movie to the side, and the consequences of that are people who just get bored of going to the movies. Glad to see the Philippines are doing it right!
Don’t blame the studios. They are after one thing and one thing only. The money! It’s a business, art is incidental. Do you work for free? I’m sure you don’t. Superhero films and franchise films are a guarantee. When they aren’t, Hollywood will look elsewhere. Just look at history instead of agreeing with a you tube influencer who just wants the clicks so he can,wait for it, make MONEY! Yes folks that’s how it works. Sorry to burst your bubble but some of the greatest films were done to make money! I know, I know. It’s horrible but so is listening to dreck like this. I hope some time in the future we can look back and see that the only thing holding ppl back in this time from making great films is bc they were too busy making videos on TH-cam about the state of films.
@@TheBatNick2024 I'm not so sure about superheroes and recognisable IP being all people actually care about, or would go see. There's more to this, like for example cowardly executives, who calculate that green lighting a superhero film will not get them fired, even if it flops hard, because "superheroes are the thing that's IN right now, how could I know ****man XVI would fail???". Furthermore, films are to make money only - is a thing in the US, no doubt, but in other countries there's also public financing options, which do consider other aspects than plain profit when they make their decisions about financing a project. You also have to wonder is it that superheroes and Marvel are things that the audience likes and goes to see because they are far superior than anything else, or has the studio system actually teached them that this is what cinema is for? Would they go and see, and enjoy something else if that something else would be on the menu and people would know about it? I mean if all you ever ate is McDonald's, and you knew of nothing else, then how could you demand for a high quality steak meal for example?
I think the thing with the early phase one Marvel movies is they actually were complete movies within themselves and because you enjoyed that complete movie, the hook at the end that was this little detail that could carry another movie made you want to see the next movie. While the formula has stayed the same, the movies and TV shows have stopped being complete internal experiences that can stand on there own. And there’s just too many of them. Hot take, Marvel TV shows were better when Netflix was handling most of them. Jessica Jones and Daredevil were such good shows because while there wasa the casual implication they were in the same universe as the films, the shows were complete experiences run like TV shows and not like small slices of this big cinema universe.
I completely agree with you! Post credits scenes were awesome when they got you excited for what was coming next, rather than being the ONLY part of the story that moved things forward. Thank you for the comment!
Of course he's right. A good movie coming out of Hollywood is a miracle today. His movies tend to be always pretty great, don't they? He's one of the people filmmakers will always learn from, for generations to come.
Scorsese expanded what I thought cinema could be, partly through his own films (which I love), but even more so through many of the films he's inspired, promoted, and restored. If not for his contributions to the medium, I wouldn't be interested in watching films.
Same here D-Peezy! Only in the past couple of years did I realize how many films in history this guy has restored to either their highest possible quality, or just saved them from being lost to history forever. Thanks for the comment!
At the time Marvel was putting up the numbers , and fanfare was at it's highest. Hardcore MCU fans were never going to try to understand what he was getting at.
I was one of those hardcore fan but now i get it. Marvel back then had a vision until endgame atleast. But the signs were there which none of us could see where scorcese was absolutely right. Those marvel characters were our friends and we didnt want to turn our backs on them.
right now is the start of the biopic era Elvis...Oppenheimer...Napoleon, Bob Marley...etc. and I welcome it, at least people's lives have massively different stories so it's more variant than superhero films
Not gonna lie, the first time I heard him at that time even I was like - okay bro, they're not in the same field as your movies but they're not as bad. But slowly as time passed and Disney-Marvel showed it's true colors + I grew older, I couldn't agree more with him.
I was exactly the same. At first I was like: “You’re wrong, but you have your opinion.” But as time’s gone on and as I’ve been expanding my own knowledge of cinema… he’s right. He’s just right.
Scorsese is basically arguing that cinema shouldn’t just be saturated with the superhero genre, it should be more varied as a medium. Right now Marvel is in cahoots for over saturation and he was right about that.
I still love a lot of the superhero movies we’ve gotten as of late, even some of the MCU movies and shows post-Endgame, but even I can agree, they’ve really become oversaturated. There’s a lot of cases where it feels like companies don’t really want us to treat a lot of this as an artistic vision on its own merits or a story that could last for ages and more like they want us to treat them like products, just buy, consume, and be ready to buy the next product, especially in regards to the release schedule of their shows with their movies in Marvel’s case. It’s why there’s still a few shows I haven’t seen and there’s a couple that I am personally not interested in seeing (ex. The Marvels).
in terms of superhero movies, i think there should be new innovations and approaches to make it more better and cinema like. Personally despite not everyone like Joker or the Batman it kinda revolutionized Comic book movies IMO. It Used the character IP to bring it to different directions, while yes joker is practically a rip off of taxi driver and king of comedy, for once the comic book movie genre wasn't all about big super hero battles rather it explores more themes and characterization. Which i think comic book movies really need to have right now. Personally I was fond of a "separate unconnected Universe" that todd Philipps proposed when the joker was first released. He Mentioned DC Black, which is also a separate comic book line in DC, difference is it tackled more mature themes and would be more kinda through provoking than let say mainstream stories. I was on board, because Idk why but WB doesn't seem to see the potential of it. Like It is clear as day that WB cannot handle a cinematic universe, Marvel has different circumstances and advantages that allowed itself to make a coherent cinematic universe while WB doesn't, well they are starting to do it now however I'm still skeptical. I Really disliked the fact that WB tried to copy the MCU even it tone. By being a darker and more gritty tone DC would have actually been more unique rather than just some copy cat. Plus The advantage of making loosely connected character studies off of popular and not so popular IPs would allow them to experiment more and innovate. Joker budget was 150 Million which is not that high compared to the bigger projects if it did not make big it wouldn't have been much of a Loss for WB and they could just drop everything and focus on another project. But it did go big it made a billion. Unlike focusing on a connected universe if one big project fails its back to the drawing board for them. I seriously hope they give some importance to this black label concept todd Philipps made. It really has great potential even to include some of their not so popular projects like maybe some stories from vertigo etc. Or they could use some IPs and remake them to however they wish.
Both of you nail my exact thoughts! I want great superhero movies just as much as the biggest comic book fan out there, but I and many other are just tired of buying a ticket to the same endless story over and over again, where it seems like the only scene of the 2 1/2 hour movie that pushes the story forward is the mid credits scene. If they start giving us unique stories that have payoff in each solo entry, I think they can get it back on track. Thank you both for the comments!
I think Marty is kind-of right about Marvel in many ways, but I wouldn't agree with him comparing them to theme park rides. As well as being a cinephile I am also a theme park and rollercoaster enthusiast and I would firmly argue that roller coasters and theme park rides are an art form in their own right, as well as extraordinary pieces of engineering. I think a more accurate metaphor would be to compare them to commodities sold in a supermarket, as it's all about selling the next thing and it's not about telling a good story anymore (most of the time anyhow).
I think if he made that comparison, he would be more accurate and get even MORE hate hahahaha. I think it's also a valid point though Robin. I love theme parks as well, and that is a whole industry that deserves its own videos! Appreciate the comment!
The problem non block buster movies have is streaming. There is lots of great mid budget content you can stream anytime you want. Even if it goes to theater you can wait 1 month and watch it on streaming. The main draw to the theater now is seeing big effects on a big screen.
There was an interview from 2013 where Steven Spielberg and George Lucas said that at a certain point, films that weren’t designed to be blockbuster movies would go to streaming, and perhaps be greenlit as streaming series, with theaters playing only large franchise films. And ten years later, I’d say we are starting to see at least part of what they were describing.
I love how people are so heated about one person's opinion. This guy makes movies that define cinema. He's literally risked his life for his movies and went to hell and back. It should be no surprise that he doesn't go crazy for a guardians of the galaxy movie lol. I'm sure there are Michelin chefs who hate fast food, and top musicians who hate certain kinds of music. And that's fine!
To me, the MCU and other big franchises of today are the cinematic equivalent of fast food. They have their place if you like them but shouldn't be mistaken for fine dining or a nutritious home-cooked meal. And they definitely shouldn't be your whole diet.
@@jameswatson5807 Yeah and no Yeah they are really successful like Macdonalds but just like Macdonalds they aren’t exactly the best quality of food. Back to the future told its story and ended the creators even made sure a fourth didn’t happen . Compare that to Marvel and big studios in general that just make never ending franchises just for profit
Audiences are getting dumber, they no longer seek films that have impact and meaning they want easy and mindless. When they do find anything challenging they use TH-cam to understand it instead of thinking. I can't respect fully grown adults whose main thing is superheroes and star wars.
Awesome video!! I stand with Marty. The Creator is amazing! Saw it in IMAX. Can we also talk about how ridiculous it is that we usually only get a one week window to watch new films in IMAX or Dolby?? AND how ridiculous it is to blanket all the screens & showtimes with just one or two movies?? That is definitely a result of the superhero genre as well. So glad it's ending however the theater showings scheduled has not and it's gotta be a big financial mistake as well. Looks like at least Taylor Swift is saving the theater business this year!
Appreciate it Brent! Glad you loved it! I think there is just too much competition among the larger films these days, which is why it is important to see something like The Creator in a high format when we get the chance to. Even though it wasn't one of my favorites of the year, it was just a nice breath of fresh air for me. Thank you for the comment!
This is because there is a very big difference between a director and an artist. Sure he may not have box office cash cows but, his films a cut above. I cannot wait for Tears of the Flower Moon and I personally think Silence is a masterpiece. Also, as a true comic book fan (an actual reader of comic books) that comic book films while they are fun they are NOTHING in comparison to the source material. I tell people who adore MCU films to read the origonal comic book for Civil War and guarentee them their whole attitude towards the MCU will change. I will say that the last great comedy we got since Superbad was Everybody Wants Some!!. Such a feel good funny movie.
Appreciate the comment Steve! I'm actually giving Silence a rewatch sometime over the next couple days, didn't fully click with me on my first watch but admittedly I remember being exhausted that day and seeing a late night viewing, so I think it deserves a second look in a more ideal situation hahaha! I never read comic books growing up but I could only imagine how much more lively the source material is. I wish I loved Everybody Wants Some too, but that will get a second shot from me some day too! I'm just super biased with Dazed and Confused being my favorite movie lol!
@@chaseazarian I personally love Andrew Garfield's performace in that film. I also have a major apprecaition for moments in history that you don't get much in the history books. I didn't know a single think about fuedal Japan at this point so it was very interesting to learn about their attidute during the age of exploration. There is no reason to pit Dazed and Everybody against one another they are each perfect in their own ways. I am a bit more partial to Everybody Wants Some!! because it's about the 80s and also the first day of that film takes place on my birthday exactly one year before I was born so I kinda have a connection with it. Plus...I love Finn in that movie.
I don’t think using Civil War as cite of comparison is a good way to change MCU fans minds seeing how the source material is a very decisive work whose main point of conflict isn’t very clear as to what it is supposed to be and fail at making it a nuance hero vs. hero conflict compare to the movies (seriously, Iron Man is a lot more sympathetic in the films than he was in the comics despite being the “right” side).
If you write stuff like this you should not cite Civil War as an Example. That Comic was bad and the movie was story-wise a lot better. In the movie they managed to have both sides have some good arguments . In the comic the pro-reg side got out of control quickly and got into throw them all into the negative zone mode and think having people like Bullseye on your side would not be a problem. And that is not even talking about Clone-Thor. The only thing this comic should be an example of is character assasination.
@@BigK13372 One of the many things the movie got better is that both sides got arguments to back them up. I mean if they had not put Wanda under House arrest Steve would have signed the accord. Compared to the comic that painted the pro reg side not in a flattering light.
make a coming of age movie with kids that has heart to it like sandlot, stand by me, and earlier stranger things. those kinda movies always hit home and they can be done with a lower budget
Y'know, Mr. Marty is right. That's why I'm practicing screenplays so that I can make my dreams of having a frilly, girly, campy, emotionally driven magical girl indie movie a reality.
Great video destruction on the topic! I love how you express your opinions about this feud and explain Scorsese’s side where a lot of people villainize. I'm not choosing a “side” like social media, but I really do see where Scorsese is coming from and his concerns. I may not agree with everything he says but in the grand scheme of things, his concerns are justified.
Thank You for the compliment Zaiah! Even though I chose the Scorsese side, I jsut want Marvel and these other franchises to give us better movies, because the fans deserve it! And at the same time, I want these Studios to make more of an effort to get the public excited about smaller, exciting movies that might be a bit different than the status quo. Appreciate you looking at both sides!
People also have been so convinced that the only thing that matters is franchises and shared universes, that all the last DC movies were discarded from the begining by most because "what's the point if they're rebooting the universe". I'm not saying they were great or anything, but they didn't give them a chance just because of that.
This is incredibly surface level and will sound like I don’t know what I’m talking about, because I don’t, but here goes. With the 2020 quarantine, many small independent businesses were at risk of shutting, down, and many did. That’s when we saw this big push in the media to support local business. Support the American joe and his family with their dream. Support their happiness. And I feel like this translated to other independent stuff as well. We saw a surge in content creation, and not just from big channels. Even now I’m constantly recommended small TH-camrs I’ve never heard of, and they’re pretty good. We also saw more indie gaming happening, since big studios were shut down and people were board at home. This is entirely a guess, but I predict we’ll see a big movement in indie films as well, and they will gain more popularity.
I love superheroes as much as the next guy, but I also love quality film making and that is the big difference between the best and the modern superhero movies. Quality writing, amazing cinematography, and thought provoking themes, these are the things that I grew to love as I got older and appreciated these movies for more than just cool action and spectacle. Things like The Boys and Invincible are perfect examples of how it can be done since the audience has also gotten older and can handle more mature and darker themes
Much of Marvels catalogue has become just glorified sitcoms all with very similar plots so none of it feels original or unique and all of it is lacking in depth. Lot of ok movies that are enjoyable enough to watch once but almost none of it will be remembered 10+ years from now. Unlike a lot of the really great superhero films like The Dark Knight or Logan which people will remember for generations because they have compelling narratives, more memorable characters, and exceptional storytelling. I don't think it's a coincidence that non-MCU films tend to be the best superhero movies. The MCU is basically designed to eliminate the creative process in favor of more efficiently producing films. Great for quantity, but it hurts the quality. And you get a dozen or more films within a short period of time but only one or two are anything that really sticks with you.
I was initially kind of put off by his comments on the MCU because when he first said I was still fully on the hype train as the MCU was still peaking or had just peaked but as time goes on and the more Marvel has been spiraling down, the more I’ve come to understand what he meant.
Great job with this project, Chase! Best take I’ve seen on this topic. Like I genuinely do not understand how this argument has carried on to this day, Marty was right! And James Grays take on this epidemic is the cherry on top. I’ve been trying to find his audio interview (I believe Lost City of Z was making its rounds) where he made the comparison to modern movie goers being conditioned to eat only McDonalds and then get upset when they’re eventually challenged with something new. It’s hilarious, scathing, but so true. I hope it resurfaces some day. The fact I’m not gonna be able to watch Royal Hotel in theaters because it’ll cost me around nearly $50 to Uber back and forth (not playing in the town I’m currently residing in) including the ticket price is ridiculous. (sigh) anyway Killers of the Flower Moon looks great
Appreciate you as always Will! Even though the few films I have seen from Gray are not my favorite, that Aquaman segment really made me love the guy! I've never seen that audio interview, but I'll have to scour the internet with you to find it! And that's exactly what I mean^. I think a lot of people in the online film community take the access they have to local festivals or indie theaters (countless of them if you are in a place like NYC), that the rest of the country does not have for granted, and if these movies don't make money, why would those small, more remote theaters even consider showing them? It's a bleak situation, but like Tarantino said, I hope the pendulum is inevitably going to swing the other way, and the general public will once again fall in love with the indie movie. Thanks for the comment man!
I've said this many times before and I'll continue to say it - the MCU is like a hamburger and fries meal. We all enjoy the familiar simple comfort of a good burger and fries, but no one (unless they're ridiculously picky) wants to eat just burgers and fries for every meal. Sometimes you want sushi, or pizza, or tacos, or something else altogether. At its apex, the MCU was basically forcing everyone else to serve burgers and fries, just with maybe some minor differences (seasonings, toppings, etc), which just made the issue worse. The more childish "fandom rivalry" aspects aside, this was EXACTLY what people who wanted the DCEU to be its own kind of thing were worried about and tried to push back against. There was a reason why the Barbie/Oppenheimer double release was such a massive event.
Another issue is that the cinema experience isn't cheap anymore like back in the days. MCU hamburger and fries cost like three star French cuisine at a fancy restaurant.
I agree as well. What I'm trying to wrap my brain around is the idea of where is the line between the amusement park movies and cinema. Is it a spectrum? Some being more cinema than others? And how would a writer or director of a movie try to ensure that their work is considered cinema and not just an average popcorn movie to turn your brain off to?
I agree that the over saturation of franchise and superhero movies is bad. I would love to see more different kind of film come back to the table. But I would have to disagree that the MCU-at least till the end of endgame-was samey. Looking at all the films in phase one, to me personally, most just felt so different in numerous kinds of ways. Yes, some of them did fall into the formula type, but the consistent quality these films retained was outstanding to me. To a point that I used to always go into a marvel movie being comfortable that I’d have something worth my time, and even if it wasn’t the best, I’d at least be able to watch a fun action flick even at their worst. At least that was the case until after endgame, then it all just went to shit, with the MCU making a genuinely great film becoming a rarity. (Guardians 3, No Way Home and Shang Chi, etc etc). That being said, Marvel really needs to slow tf down with their films and give other types of films a chance. Not just because they’re saturating the market, but because pushing out too many films is affecting their quality greatly. I mean… Eternals might be the most boring piece of shit I’ve ever seen in my life. I would also like to add that I don’t agree with people who think MCU fan’s are lesser in any way because they don’t class it as real cinema. Who are they to dictate what real cinema is? That’s a very unfair stance to take. There’s nothing wrong with disliking marvel, but that doesn’t mean you’re better than someone else because you’ve watched the godfather. But that’s just my stance on it.
Thank you for the comment Daniel! Even though I made the comment, I agree with you about everything up to Endgame! Even though it was never my favorite, there was always a pretty consistent level of quality. Somebody that didn't like superhero movies probably wouldn't dig many of them, but for fans they KNEW that the MCU would give them something good two or three times a year. With the amount of Disney+ series and movie releases over the past year, it just feels like they stopped prioritizing the quality and instead went into "Let's see how many of these we can crank out" mode, and I have yet to find a fan that prefers the Post-Endgame projects to the Pre-Endgame projects. I appreciate the comment and the healthy discussion man! I think all everybody wants are good movies, whether it's a superhero movie or a gangster flick or a rom com etc. etc., and giving each movie a huge push into the theaters will help everything work itself out. Thanks for the comment again!
in terms of superhero movies, i think there should be new innovations and approaches to make it more better and cinema like. Personally despite not everyone like Joker or the Batman it kinda revolutionized Comic book movies IMO. It Used the character IP to bring it to different directions, while yes joker is practically a rip off of taxi driver and king of comedy, for once the comic book movie genre wasn't all about big super hero battles rather it explores more themes and characterization. Which i think comic book movies really need to have right now. Personally I was fond of a "separate unconnected Universe" that todd Philipps proposed when the joker was first released. He Mentioned DC Black, which is also a separate comic book line in DC, difference is it tackled more mature themes and would be more kinda through provoking than let say mainstream stories. I was on board, because Idk why but WB doesn't seem to see the potential of it. Like It is clear as day that WB cannot handle a cinematic universe, Marvel has different circumstances and advantages that allowed itself to make a coherent cinematic universe while WB doesn't, well they are starting to do it now however I'm still skeptical. I Really disliked the fact that WB tried to copy the MCU even it tone. By being a darker and more gritty tone DC would have actually been more unique rather than just some copy cat. Plus The advantage of making loosely connected character studies off of popular and not so popular IPs would allow them to experiment more and innovate. Joker budget was 150 Million which is not that high compared to the bigger projects if it did not make big it wouldn't have been much of a Loss for WB and they could just drop everything and focus on another project. But it did go big it made a billion. Unlike focusing on a connected universe if one big project fails its back to the drawing board for them. I seriously hope they give some importance to this black label concept todd Philipps made. It really has great potential even to include some of their not so popular projects like maybe some stories from vertigo etc. Or they could use some IPs and remake them to however they wish.
Holy shit are we still talking about what Martin thinks of these movies? Who gives a fuck? We know the movies are bad now and getting worse. His take isn't unique or interesting on the topic. Idk how theres anything to disect about his take on Marvel.
Controversial take, non franchise movies died when Harvey Weinstein banished. Research his push into making mid budget movies recognized and the actors gain notoriety. Evil man indeed but his efforts for the craft shouldn’t be denied.
It’s hilarious how so many people would rather defend the cookie cutter corporate Marvel approach to filmmaking than the original Scorsese films. The marvel MCU movies are all basically the same story with a new coat of paint
Since critiquing silent films over on my channel I've become part of the silent film community, when Turner Classic Movies changed hands earlier this year we gasped. TCM is currently preserving silent films and Scorsese is part of that project, as well as two other directors. We lost a lot of films during wartime because film materials were needed in one way or another, or due to studio fires. So when these films are found in an attic or stuffed in random clutter (recently another segment of Theda Bara's Cleopatra was found), it's great to receive the chance to preserve them because so many films are lost forever. Cheers!
8:39 James Gray nailed it right on the head. As someone who's never been particularly interested in superhero or other action films, I've pretty much stopped going to new movies almost entirely because Hollywood doesn't make films for people like me anymore. And if I don't want to see any of their current output, then there are probably untold numbers of others that feel the same way. Bread and circuses, anybody?
I don’t care how a movie is made. Just as long as it has a good storyline. And that the actors directors writers whoever help make the movie gets their fair share of the work that they help made the movie come to life. Because they worked hard and deserve what they did.
I didn't particularly like EEAAO but I was rooting for it to win awards because I knew that it would be a symbolic win for original IP. It further sent a message to studio execs that not everything needs to be a reboot or a sequel to succeed. Scorcese's argument is about how the massive success of Marvel was breeding a hollywood culture in which a business strategy built around BIG IP was sucking all of the oxygen out of the run. Success for films like EEAAO, Oppenheimer, Nope, and Barbie - coupled with Marvel's waning success of course, helps bring us closer to more relatively original greenlights.
You kinda changed my mind. I was kinda neutral, but a bit more in the Marvel camp, and just put it into perspective for me. You've earned yourself another subscriber
I appreciate that man! I don't want people to stop being a Marvel fan, I just want Marvel to make the BEST movies possible, while also not suffocating out every other kind of film. Love having you in this community and hope I can deliver the best videos possible for you!
@@chaseazarian I totally agree, and don't get me wrong I'm still a Marvel fan, but I guess I just hadn't really gotten Scorsese's point (although I also think he could have worded it in a clearer way). Diversity in film genres and styles is very important
With the impact this man has made on my life, Marty just rolls off the tongue at this point hahaha! Would be honored to meet Mr. Scorsese one of these days
The idea that films should be made in order to make the general audience feel anything at all is really sad. Film should be a window into a thought experience we may find impossible to find anywhere else in everyday life, not a cheap thrill we can on average get from any other form of entertainment.
The absolute truth and Marvel is going down the same toilet as Star Wars and honestly Revenge Of The Sith is a great film and much better than what Star Wars gave is recently
internet: scorsese is one of the best directors scorsese: marvel sucks ass internet: scorsese is THE worst director of all time and he's wrong about everything i rest my case
Even ghost busters couldn’t be made today. I’m not talking about the last two ghost busters. I mean the 1982 one. It would be too slow paced and the they don’t blabber enough. Makes me wonder how many movies are just being passed on, strictly because they don’t have enough filler. What happened to story and character driven film?
Challenge Accepted “That’s my secret Cap, I’m always angry.” “Perfectly balanced. As it should be.” “He may be your father, but he sure ain’t your daddy.” “ANOTHER!”
“THE PRICE OF FREEDOM IS HIGH, IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN. AND IT’S A PRICE I’M WILLING TO PAY. AND IF I’M THE ONLY ONE, THEN SO BE IT. BUT I’M WILLING TO BET I’M NOT.” - CAPTAIN AMERICA
@@BigK13372"For Time Always" "TALOKAN! TALOKAN!' "Are you happy?" "You and I remember Budapest very differently" "Somebody give that man a shield!" "Hello your Highness, I'm Clint. I do not care."
I think in the last decade or so I've only watched a handful of movies at a cinema. Last movie I saw on a big screen was Oppenheimer and I immediately knew why I don't go more often. Prices have become absolutely absurd, like I could buy a movie several times on Amazon for the price of just 1 ticket and the overall experience isn't that special anymore anyway. But I think one of the main reasons why I stopped to go in the first place is the audience. Out of the 'I don't know how many times' I last went to a cinema EVERY TIME I got annoyed by someone or at least 1 group of people. In Oppenheimer someone was so obnoxious to the entire room that halfway through the movie the security had to escort him out. I think that dude was either super drunk or high on something but yea.. considering I have to spend that much money (the group of people I'm going with too) I at least want to at least have an enjoyable experience. At home I have better things to do than to sit through a 2,5h movie tho, so I rarely watch movies in general anymore, unfortunately. I think the entertainment industry as a whole has become a complete shitshow, gaming in particular. Everything needs to be cheaper, quicker in production, lower risk,... but has to make even more revenue. You can't have your cake and eat it too. It's a disease AAA studios and publishers have inflicted on themselves and it's only getting worse with (relatively) high interest rates. Hope something seriously breaks and resets the entire market.
Not only that I agree with Scorsese about Marvel/DC/any franchise being a theme park, but my thought on them goes even further. I dont think it is like a theme park, but like a single ride which is same everytime just repainted into different color every day. From all Marvel movies I watched only few of them I watched in full and none of them I wish to watch again. In my opinion they are all the same, predictable, great vfx though, and dont carry absolutely anything inovative and original. I dont think anything bad about people liking them, I grew up with a different kind of comic books and understand why people would like to watch them, but regarding these movies they dont do anything from me......IMO one episode of The Boys (which is not for everyone) hold more storytelling, world building and good characters then all MCU/DCU/anyCU....... combined
That John Compea point wasn’t the worst but comparing a tv show first of all to 1 Scorsese film was an awful example and showed how weak his argument was
As a professional musician. I tend to tell people that heavy EDM and rave music is not music. It is an entirely different artform. It is sound design more than music composition. I love EDM and I make it myself as well. And I still dont think it should be in the same category as music.
Best to replace the term Indie movies with Creative movies. What is lacking generally in cinema is creativity and good writing - partly because of interference from the movie companies too scared to take a risk. Read the history of Alien 3 and what David Fincher had to put up with.
Four faces on the Mount Rushmore of movie directors 1)Scorsese 2)Francis Ford Copolla 3)Quinton Tarantino 4)Alfred Hitchcock or Stanley Kubrick What you guys think? 🤷🏽♂️
After listening to how Disney bullied theaters over Star Wars I’m really enjoying how Taylor Swift and Beyoncé cut deals with theater directly for their concert movies that left the studios out in the cold. Best revenge ever 😂
Success, as in box office takings, is not a marker of quality. The most successful 'restaurant' in the place you live is McDonalds, but it isn't the best food in that location.
I think nowadays there's a big problem with the artistic freedom they literally use censorship. You can't even find nowadays a really good comedy movie because you can't make fun of any kind of people because of our hypersensitive society. The Oscar prize requirements are a joke. If Oppenheimer won't get any oscar because there's not minors or LMBTQ in it. It will be the end of artistic freedom. (Change my mind) (p.s. I'm not racist or any kind of phobic person, I just want to see good movies and not trash (Barbie). I may don't understand the situation I live in Eastern Europe please tell me what's going on with the society in the US).
Every one of my favorite quotes that I can spontaneously pull out of my head without thinking come from the classic films. As much as I enjoy the Marvel universe, it is sort of cotton candy for The Brain.
Wait, who is that guy who you showed a clip of saying that Ms. Marvel made him more emotional than a Scorsese film has? The climax of Silence is literally the most emotional part of a film I've ever seen. I know i shouldn't judge a guy based off of one thing he said but man, I'm speechless. Like that film IS Scorsese to me, that moment is the most pure, emotional form of cinema that exists. Wtf?
This is why I love A24. They’re not all hits but I love that they’re willing to take a shot and support unique creative stories.
They're low key saving this industry from death by themselves
It, A24, is diversifying its’ portfolio with more “mainstream” fare since they can’t really profit off of the original stuff anymore.
@@fragileguyguy7226 They could still make art quality films, even if they make franchises.
It used to be that way. In the 90's, early 2000's, every story was unique and for the most part it didn't matter which movie you went to, coz the quality was pretty high that almost any movie was good. Today.... a good movie is a needle in a haystack, you have to search between all the garbage of infantile superhero comic soapserie bs and all the vile politics with no good story movies, that have particularly risen since Hollywood thought it had to 'educate' us when Hillary Clinton lost the election.... sorry guys, I only have to look in the rear mirror to see what marxism did and the hundreds of millions it killed, which you of course conveniently leave out of your 'lecturing', it's like talking about Nazi's and conveniently leaving out the Holocaust.... yeah no, do what you do best, making a movie and leave politics to people with an actual brain, okay?
A24 is not Cinema, It’s a pretentious film company that tries way too hard to make “Art”. It’s nowhere near the authenticity that real Cinema requires. Period.
I could tell the studios were abandoning him when his movie Silence was virtually unpromoted in 2017. I found it to be inspiring and thought-provoking, but mainstream Hollywood swept it under the rug to encourage moviegoers to exclusively attend big-budget blockbusters. It’s too bad that very few movies aimed toward the artsy crowd are made by Hollywood anymore.
Why exactly do artistic movies look like?
@@rustyshackelford4224Uh….
No idea, but I feel “The Lighthouse” & “Sin City” (or the movie that had people shaded in specific colors, iirc) give us a glimpse.
Never watched either of them, but they seem really interesting.
Hollywood studios needs to start coming up with new stuff and new material.
Marvel movies are like fast food. It isn’t good for you and are designed to be made quickly. They feel great when you’re in it but the moment it finishes you realise you’re gonna feel terrible for the rest of the day
Nah they're straight up dog shit served on a platter
lol
@@udaykiranpanjala2710LOL! Why do you say that the MCU sucks in general?
A prophet is honored everywhere except his own land. Scorsese’s comments initially drew wide spread scorn from TH-cam critics and the public alike. Then, as the genre of superhero spectacle movies are brought low, everyone is reading Scorsese’s words as prescient. Just like Marvel films, TH-cam video essayist are more often than not reactionary and driven by flash rather than substance. Driven by turning a quick buck rather than making something that lasts, the proliferation of marvel/starwars/etc content is going to eventually be a curious footnote from this era.
Let me also say, before pointing the finger at studios (who deserve a large part of the blame), both fans and content creators have also played a role in the current condition of film. We need to consume with more discretion if we want to see change.
@@nlsantiesteban
Spot on!
Vote with your wallet.
As someone that’s always been with the MCU even atm. I agree with his comments.also Why do we always have to compare? Like mentioned the mcu means a lot to me. But I am tried sometimes that people bring up unnecessary topics. We do need more different movies. Great video.
in terms of superhero movies, i think there should be new innovations and approaches to make it more better and cinema like
Thank you for the comment Zuriishere! I feel like most MCU fans are like you: They are just fans of movie period, and we want as many good movies as possible! It's the ones that only care about their own franchise that don't think about the consequences of how big it has gotten.
I think Avatar was the start of all this not Marvel. MCU has its share of blame but I think it started with Avatar and how the most impressive thing about it was how much it cost at the CGI world which wasn’t that important in the end. Also right that movies have no quotable lines. They have good lines but nothing memorable. Vast majority of movies aren’t worth remembering, and you’ve already parted with your cash by the time you realize that.
For me a great movie is a byproduct of its great parts. The music, the photography, the STORY, editing, the performance. Everything has to come together. And the best stories are timeless. The stories themselves are the moral lessons or discussion, they don’t have them tossed in the way “certain movies and shows” today only know how to do. They don’t talk down to people.
John Campea sounded to me like he was looking for a reason to remind the audience that he doesn't like billionaires. _Billionaire = BAD, EVIL._ I'll bet he doesn't have anything bad to say about Jay Z, however. 🤔
People still discuss Wolf of Wall Street even to this very day. After the last season of GoT, it has been collectively forgotten by the internet
Also, even his own argument is wrong. You cannot relate to the red wedding scene on a surface level. It is not like anything that the average joe is going to experience in their daily life. So people were not interested in that scene because they related to that in any way, but because it was shock value and upped the stakes considerably.
Why does this video say people were defending SheHulk after Martin made these comments? SheHulk came out in 2022, 3 years after Marin made these comments in 2019.
That's why Im a big fan of A24. They are big on the small budget, total creative freedom model. They churn out a lot of stinkers & some amazing, out of left field masterpieces.
Creativity & art isn't a formula to crack. It is a bunch of creative people throwing shit at a wall and occasionally things will stick
Marvel movies are dangerous? thats a weird statement... either audiences enjoy the movie or not. I really don't think its thats complicated. Thats like saying Justin Bieber is dangerous for music lol.
Well they are dude you would have to be completely blind if you don’t see Hollywood become more reliant on just endless franchises and general audiences just watching and talking about that
But if the only musician being pushed by venues was Justin Bieber, wouldn't that be dangerous? I appreciate the comment!
@@rupertsmith5815 I don't feel threatened at all personally. I always find good movies to watch each year. but to each their own.
@@chaseazarian If the venue is releasing good enough movies that the general audience wants to pay for who are we to judge? If the movies are terrible the internet will s%#& on it.
@@takumifujiwara9181 It’s not about you personally it is film in general
Look at the releases of big studios in the 90s and 80s compared to today.
It is becoming mostly just franchise driven and nostalgia from the 70s-90s with the virtual extinction of the mid budget smaller films constantly getting shoved to the side and unless you’re a Christopher Nolan or Tarantino it virtually impossible to get an original big budget film made.
So yeah you truly have to be completely ignoring everything to not see the danger to cinema it is giving.
With a lot of modern films being referred to as content only proves his point more .
Marty’s right because every MCU movie, at least now, only exists to make money. That’s all it is. Superhero films are now just an exercise in “how much money can we make?” And here’s the thing, Marty didn’t say they were bad, inherently. Just that they were a different kind of thing to what he calls cinema.
Just to note, I actually do like a decent chunk of the MCU, especially the Captain America films. I also like McDonald’s. It’s just that if given the chance, I’d rather go to a nice Italian restaurant where the chef clearly put all their heart and soul into a meal, rather than an assembly experience. And there’s the thing. The MCU is an assembly line.
But Scorsese only makes mobster movies, you know. My favourite mob movie is Kundun.
Actually Martin's thoughts abt Marvel being NOT CINEMA was during when the avengers endgame was hot for the whole year. People were completely on the Marvel's side on this one. I was too. Cuz telling the avengers movies weren't CINEMA was kinda wrong cuz these movies are made to watch as a celebration in theaters. I would disagree Martin's words during that time. The best example for why Martin is wrong are the Harry Potter movies. These movies are completely Serialized so that u would have to follow the previous movies in order to understand the latest one. Where tf was Martin back then lmao😂
But i gotta agree with Martin after Phase 4 started with Wandavision, everything went to crap. The reason i dislike this phase was that, the movies are completely dependent on the disney+ series. Already most phase 4 movies were trash and then Doctor strange 2's convoluted, stupid and cheezy plot was dependent on the wandavision series lmao smh.
Also too much content. I don't even care abt most characters in phase 4 except for Spidey, the guardians and Loki. This Phase made me care less for freakin' THOR. Congratulations MARVEL 😂
And Marvel's still persistent on releasing movies like 'Marvels' to the theaters. Like who tf cares lol. The only good thing abt Marvel right now is the Loki series.
Why do you like the Loki series?
I never liked Marvel movies. I remember how groundbreaking Iron Man was in 2008 - and it still holds up today - but I could never get past how bleak it felt. Remember the pizza from NYC? Cold, just like the entire movie. Oh, and the Audi product placement was obnoxious. Since then, every Marvel movie has been the same formulaic thing. I cannot find any aspect through which to relate, because everything I am seeing on screen is entirely fake. I want to watch a movie at least whose story line phases me, but Marvel movies cannot even do that much. The only one I was able to enjoy decently well was Thor (though I forgot whether or not I saw the sequel), as it felt less ordinary in several ways. Maybe it had a more human element to it - I'm not sure.
Campea is a goddamn clown, what he said is criminal.
i don’t know if my frustration and anger is misplaced or not but i truly detest what the MCU has become, because it’s soo obvious who they think they’re writing these movies for . they’ve in essence bastardised fans of Marvel in its entirety because this isn’t just your least favourite uncle coming in to stay with you and he just has a room to himself , no… he’s now moved in and made the whole house his . this making even the comic fans feel out of place because of how the comics are now shifting to lend themselves better to a movie adaptation… in essence telling a more watered down , toned down , less decisive versions of the stories they used to tell .
these corporations forget that is the people that made them big , not just themselves and when you start creating things for yourself and not the people , i really get pissed off at that .
Good guy win, teaser in credits. Everyone claps.
I've really started understand Martin's viewpoint he's not wrong to criticize this. I'm a die-hard marvel fan like anyone else but even I got to admit the only really good ones THIS YEAR were across the spider verse and guardians.
And those weren't just good blockbuster movies they were actually good FILMS. Good story, characters, writing. I can rewatch those 2 like I can with a film like Ridley Scott's original alien.
That's what Martin's trying to say that the actual integrity and passion of filmmaking is getting lost.
I've really started to open up to lower budget indie films and I hope others do the same. Films like that deserve a chance and I don't want Cinema as an art to die permanently.
Love this comment Rogue! Glad to see you are digging these videos 🙌 That is exactly what I'm trying to get at: Telling great STORIES in these movies is so important, instead of consuming the same recycled content over and over again. Love to hear you are expanding your horizon a bit, because there is so much great stuff out there! Hope you experience some new favorites soon!
He's right. Comic book movies are awful. Made for basement dwellers.
The fact that we're still talking about this four years after Scorsese's initial comments really says something. I think most Marvel defenders understand deep down that there's a lot of truth in his words.
I can anticipate that in ten years, people will be making essays about the downfall of the MCU. And Scorsese's comments won't be just a footnote.
He has a good point but definitely a hater when saying it's not real cinema lol. Logan and taxi driver are both great. Is Joker in dark night not real cinema?
@@thialhoinj1971 If you read his full story, which he wrote down in the New York Times to clarify things, you'd understand him better.
He says that Marvel movies aren't cinema, they're something else. They're another type of art, theme park movies. And that's not an insult in itself. Theme parks and theme park movies should exist. But it becomes a problem when they start replacing other types of movies in theaters, the one's he considers cinema.
And you do know that Scorsese was initially an executive producer of Joker, right? His comment on Marvel movies may sound like a generalisation. But he never meant to say that a comic book movie can never be cinema. He said that current Marvel movies, specifically MCU entries, are not cinema. So singling out a well made comic book doesn't really disprove his point.
@@Pssybart comic book movies with great acting, fighting scenes, great pictures are great cinema. Only different is mcu movies get more money and
attention, that's more on the people than the genre. Thousands of bad non comic book movies have been made also. Jurassic park, avatar movies will always get and make more money.
@@thialhoinj1971 Everyone has their own definition of cinema. If you consider MCU movies cinema, you're not objectively wrong.
I think the Spider-verse movies are cinema, because they revolutionized animation and the whole comic book style. The Dark Knight is cinema, because it pushed the boundaries of what adult comic book films can do.
And I still think Scorsese is right about Marvel. MCU films have been really entertaining for over a decade. But the formula has grown really stale. They copy and paste the same formula, with little changes. Every movie has the same quirky humour. Every movie ends with a big CGI battle.
Disney churns out 3 MCU films a year. And a film like Iron Man 2 or 3 doesn't exist to be a self contained story, it exists to be part of a larger franchise. The MCU is designed to go on forever, and therefore it can't take the same risks as a single movie can. You may get some heartfelt moments and an occasional character death sprinkled throughout. But each character is ultimately replaceable.
So no, I don't think the only difference between Avengers and Killers of the Flower Moon is its box office success. MCU movies have never been as deep, thought provoking or subversive.
@@Pssybart Why do you say Martin's movies are very subversive?
If you literally lived as long as he did, your whole perspective on cinema would not be the same from just watching movies for the last 20 years, he has so much knowledge of films for nearly 100 years. He has every right to form an opinion on anything on today’s generation of cinema
He lived through the black-and-white pictures. He saw everything change. Nobody has the right to say he has no idea what he’s talking about when he literally has been alive for so long and saw History go back-and-forth.
He is correct. Nevertheless, art is subjective. Most film goers are people under the age of 40 with very short attention spans. These are not people who secretly long to be film directors. They are people going out on a date for the weekend. Why would they spend money to see a film they have no interest in? They have limited time and limited money and let’s just be real, most guys are just using the movie as an excuse to go on a date with a love interest.
@@mykilahsenwilliamsdorsey1495Marvel Movies are cinema. Now to what affect, that subjective. But if fits the definition. Moving pictures have been around for a little over the decade. They are the one of newest forms of media. At this point, it sounds like Martin is jealous because his movies don’t slay at the box office. But that’s usually how it works. High Concept or super artsy movies don’t usually make a ton of money. It’s almost like the directors are talking down to the audience. You can’t get mad at people for not wanting to watch your movie. They like what they like.
@@mykilahsenwilliamsdorsey1495My bad, bro. I commented under the wrong person.
@@derrickdiggs8612 thousands bad of non comics book movies have been made. Why focus on bad comic book movies. Logan and taxi driver are both great. Marty is a legend but he sounds like a hater lol.
@@derrickdiggs8612 🤣 It’s all good my brother. I agree with your statement.
he's studied cinema his entire life, made outstanding films, and is highly regarded. apparently that's not enough credit to be able to say "marvel isn't that good" without redditors getting pissed
He just joined Letterbox'd so I hope he doesn't find out about Reddit anytime soon hahaha. Appreciate the comment man!
Says the one who believes "studying" something is a task you do as a side job. Gotta love people who think research is a hobby that you can do between dinner and bedtime.
@@ohausswhat? Are you saying that martin Scorsese studies film on the side? As if he isn't intimately familiar with film making and is a passionate film watcher? I'd imagine Martin has done a great deal of actual studying when it comes to film and not just weekend hobby work considering he's a phenomenal director. He certainly is far from ignorant about film
@@chaseazarian Oh no... imo Letterboxd "reviewers" are just as bad as Redditors.
Yeah because people equally as qualified as him disagree. You shouldn’t get a pass on shitty opinions because you’re experienced or whatever. And I agree with the opinion btw
As a superhero & comic fan, I agree with this video. It doesn't seem like he doesn't want Superman at the table, but he also wants the struggling teacher who reconnects with her kid, the horror movie monster, the historical figure, etc. We all need this.
Coming from Batman himself! I appreciate the comment man, and I think that's all he wants at the end of the day. I think the headlines made it seem like he was attacking something, rather than just trying to defend what is important to him. Thank you for the comment!
@@chaseazarianhe is 100 percent right. While I love superhero lore, MCU when their good, Infinity War/Endgame are in my top 30 movies. This year almost every character drama, mid budget comedy and independent have bombed but every article treats them like "Awww silly little inde film thinks he's a big boy even though you had no chance of success" when a blockbuster bombs like Dial of destiny which Past Lives made 3.3 precent of the box office fo it they say make 100 excuses some more valid than others. This is a dramatic disparity that people want to talk about but don't do anything. A24 just announced that it has to pivot towards IP or action movies so they don't go bankrupt and audiences with blockbuster fetishes see these A24 action movies cause they were made for them. Barbenhimer was a stroke of luck nothing more then that. So god for bid Marty is a little angry. He needs to scream to the roof tops "Go fucking expand your tastes ! You won't like every prestige film you see just like how comic book movies are a roller coasters in quality. But when there's is nothing left to remake and all there's no original films now to remake later and cinema and Hollywood collapses blood will be on the general audiences hands. I am a cinaphile, a geek, and a future filmmaker who is terrified that by the time I get to Hollywood theres no room for my voice.
@@chaseazarianPeople being picky about what movies to see these days is Hollywood's fault cause they voted for this economy cause their former friend says mean things.
The original superhero we had is Jesus Christ that's the real reason why Martin Scorsese doesn't like the MCU.
@@Thespeedrap He loves Jesus. I have not seen Silence but my view of Last Temptation is that he made a personal sacrifice being the Messiah and that he wasn't allowed to be flawed, or have true love or have any traditional life. The movie made me closer to Jesus.
I was watching this video about why blockbusters are starting to sucks now, and when they talked about the marvel franchise, they said that the executives actively seek directors that doesn’t have a creative vision and they had so much trouble with Edward wright because he wanted to apply his vision to ant-man so I think that’s an issue right there. It’s ultimately the executives that are in control, not the directors and what the executives want isn’t cinema but franchises design to sell merchandise and it’s affecting the rest of the industry
The MCU is a Kevin Feige production. To their credit, I think that is why it has been as successful as it has been, because if you want a guy to be in charge of something like this, he is the perfect choice. But having directors like Chloe Zhao direct something that feels the same as the rest of the franchise is just disappointing, which has me interested in what the new DC will look like as James Gunn has made it clear that the priority is giving directors the freedom to tell the stories how they want to tell them. I appreciate the comment Daryno!
I detest cinematic “universes” with uniform creative consistency. What made superhero movies in the 2000s was their varied directions and styles. I’d rewatch any of those movies again before I ever go back to any post 2010 marvel movie.
@@ValoricExactly.
Instead of giving a new take on a familiar character, having their story flow well on its own *regardless* of the “cinematic universe” it’s apart of, and generally making something that isn’t “audible & visual junk food”; we get cookie-cutter movies that honestly feel the same, or fail to make us invested because god forbid they make the superhero struggle with anything for any other reason besides “plot demands it.”
Funnily enough, the “Kaiju-verse” is probably the “”””cinematic universe”””” trope done *right* because every movie stands out on their own, *regardless* of the cinematic universe aspect. Sure it’s still Junk food, but they actually try *new* things with the characters and monsters; fight scenes that actually feel creative and/or interesting; tension and suspense, and so on. Hell, even *Godzilla vs Kong,* a crossover, doesn’t force you to watch the other movies to understand everything (yes, there are a few things, that still do, but they’re minor or secondary compared to the main plot). It has some things to still work out, but it’s generally a fun and engaging time with each movie.
It's hard to produce films as quickly as Marvel wants if you're allowing people to alter things for the sake of creativity. This is just the result of a cinematic universe. Marvel is planning projects years down the line and all of it needs to connect seamlessly for it to work. This inherently restricts creativity, and then on top of that it all needs to meet strict deadlines, which doesn't leave much room for making significant changes in the midst of production.
This was always going to be the case when Marvel committed to the cinematic universe idea. There's too many cooks in the kitchen, there's too many projects being made at once. It's impossible to create that many genuinely great films, so the result is a couple good ones and a bunch of filler. They should've scrapped the MCU entirely after Endgame but Disney saw too many dollar signs so they've pivoted to a whole new saga that extends the MCU for another decade or so. The quality was already declining toward the end of the Infinity Saga, pretty clear they're just trying to squeeze every last drop out of it at this point.
I don't have any problem with franchises like The MCU, Stars Wars, Disney or The Conjuring Universe. In fact I like them a lot but I definitely agree with people like Martin that cinema should not be just dominated by these franchises, others filmes should also get a chance to shine. That's why I was so happy when movies like Top Gun Maverick 2, Oppenheimer and Barbie were so big in cinema recently.
But those three films are themselves perpetuate the ideas of Hollywood being dominated by franchise and recognizable IPs.
Top Gun is a sequel to a well known 80s movie who have its huge share of merchandising and pop culture references. Barbie is a film based on a popular toyline with an expansive medium presence through cartoons, video games, etc. And though Oppenheimer is like the only one that isn’t a franchise, it is pretty much all part of the Christopher Nolan brand of movies.
@@BigK13372I also feel studios are going to take the wrong lesson from the Barbie-Heimer success stories. Barbie was a concept that could have tanked hard, but a talented filmmaker made a good movie tbh. Unfortnately, Studios will go ‘Mattel toy cinematic universe’ instead of looking for other talented filmmakers with risky concepts.
"should not be just dominated" so it is hate because they are now popular, they make money. They hat the other guys is having a great success.
@@TheDawnofVanlifeBarbie was never going to be a financial failure, mate.
I'm with Marty. Cinema is music. Music is not just classic or jazz or rock or pop or hip-hop or electronic, etc; it's all of it and more. To limit cinema is just "Marvel movies" is like saying "music is just classical".
Great comparison Derek! I wish I had thought of that because it would have been a killer line for the video hahaha! Appreciate the comment man!
Makes sense to me we really need variety when it comes to alot of things.
@@lucasferreira89739 “Ms. Muslim”?
Check your racism there mate.
I’m sorry but how are you making a legit argument about this? Cinema is NOT music. You don’t see music, you hear it. Movies are a VISUAL medium, they use music in order to help illustrate what you are seeing and should be feeling but that is not the same. There are thousands and thousands of films I’ll bet you’ve never even seen that came about before you were an itch in your daddy’s pants. Do you bother watching them? No of course not. You can’t be bothered. It’s easier to criticize than create. Right?
Marty is not the all time greatest bc as far as I understand history he didn’t invent it. He doesn’t get to dictate what cinema is or isn’t. It’s his OPINION! I don’t watch movies that either Marty approves or tells me to and neither should you. I’m sick of these wannabe film “geeks” telling ppl how they agree with Marty and cbm and specifically marvel ones are so horrible. Go do something else with your precious time. Read a book, go on an adventure or two or here’s an idea….Go Make A MOVIE of your own. What’s your excuse now? You ppl are the reason ppl can’t simply enjoy something, you have to be the proverbial wet blanket that ruins the fun. I have waited decades for Hollywood to finally get it right about cbm. I have watched countless horrible films both Oscar winners and losers, trashy films and artsy films and I said nothing. Now I finally get to see my heroes represented on the screen and you can’t simply wait your Fn turn? Grow up! Grow up and realize life doesn’t owe you anything. You want it, go and get it. Just stop making these moronic videos that I can’t seem to get rid of despite telling the algorithm I don’t like them. So now I’m going to haunt each one and rant how stupid and pointless this is.
🎬💯❤️
As a Marvel fan, I've been having a hard time telling other fans "Uh, maybe we shouldn't be questioning whether MARTIN SCORSESE knows a thing or two about cinema." Thanks for the vid.
No one that only saw Movies is a Marvel Fan! If you know Marvel through Movies only, you are a casual!
Marvel is trash for children
@@DarylMCDeathabsolutely true most of them are MCU fans.
@@Mr.unknown.K
Right do you know how many times I had MCU movie fans try to tell me , a marvel comic fan since the 80s that Deadpool was the first wise cracking fourth wall breaking marvel character?
Despite me showing Johnny Storm was the first wise ass then Peter Parker with the sarcasm and wit and She Hulk was the first fourth wall breaking marvel character, they STILL tried to argue with me and others SMH
Also the ones who act like World war hulk was the first hulk (yes Ive seen this) and had no idea grey hulk was the first hulk
It's bad enough when they do it but these popular "Superhero" channels do the same thing and don't do their due diligence and the MCU fans just accept it as gospel
The John Kransiski nonsense was so cringe, they don't even know who Reed Richards is or what his motivation is , they can't even give you a deep reason why John should be him , just because someone did a Photoshopped photo of him? That's their only reason?
You're right I can't stand the MCU movie fans either
@@Chuck_EL It's sad cause I may not have read all that many comics but I've spent years reading wiki's and listening to youtubers explain some of the best comic book storylines beat by beat to me. I usually speak with utmost confidence on stuff I know about but I don't like to pretend I know something I don't. What grinds my gears the most about other MCU fans is the pretentious need to be a know it all. Saying "I don't/wouldn't know" is sometimes seen as shameful in certain groups. I can't really call myself an MCU fan anymore, though. I think the last time I thoroughly enjoyed myself at a MCU movie was Infinity War. Yes, I even had major gripes with Endgame.
The reaction of Joker/Arthur Fleck shooting Murray in a cinema was a perfect example why Indie/character driven stories are way stronger. Same goes for "Babylon" Jack Conrad and Manny.
even that isn't really a fair example, because they are relying in the Batman IP, of course, seen through a very unique lens, but still relying in a recognizeable IP.
I think Joker gets way more hate than it deserves, because people say "look at it just copying Scorsese". Sure there is influence from Taxi Driver and King of Comedy, but it is still clearly one of the few comic book films trying something DIFFERENT over the past decade. That Talk Show scene was super effective, and there is a reason it is already pretty iconic. Thank you for the comment Danny!
After watching Joker, I always felt that it didn't need to be based on an IP or any relation to the comic book supervillain. Take away the names, the setting's name and you got a film that works super well on its work.
But it used an IP to gain attention. And if it didn't have Joker's name slapped onto it, the film wouldn't have had much attention.
Scorcese was always right. Just look at how an endless stream of superhero movie has led us. Cinema as a whole is stagnant asf. Nobody wants to take risks. Disney is putting out mediocre remake after mediocre remake, each one performing worse than the last. Everyone wants a franchise that they can milk to death. You have to actually dig through tons of superhero/franchise garbage to find decent movies these days.
Yep
I'm old enough to know damn well this didn't start with superheroes. I need y'all young folk to take a step back and look at the Friday the 13th film series and how movies have ALWAYS been in regards to 'make as much vague shit for teenagers as you can afford to make'.
Why is it in overdrive now and those movies are the leading box office draws? Because people on the bottom end of the economic spectrum (and teenagers) have a LOT more money to spend now than they did before the 1980s. What they want to see is a much higher contributing factor to what gets produced.
You can also blame my generation and Reaganomics for making Ghostbusters, a film for adults, turn into Ghostbusters 2, a film for 9 year olds like me who made studios more money tugging on our parent's pant legs to go see movies than if they had just made those movies for our parents to begin with.
Martin Scorcese is absolutely right about the way movies are made in an assembly line scenario these days. That is what he meant. We can all agree that Blade, The Dark Knight etc. are great movies. He did not say superhero films are a bad genre at all. I mean Scorcese himself basically remakes the same movie over and over, but he does it with passion and in a way that makes you care. He does not have a room of 12 writers fresh out of college.
Thanks for Martin, Quentin, Nolan , Ridley and all the directors that Really Love The Art of Cinema 🙏🏼
don't forget george lucas, francis ford copolla, quentin tarantino, steven speilberg, stanley kubrik
@@darkman7009 david fincer, G del toro , Gordon Pelé , the cohen brothers, guy Ritchie ,Mike Flanagan and more , there are many more but you got the point.
don't forget non-american directors, US-centered imperialist.
@@jeanivanjohnsoneat it bro
@@jeanivanjohnson Hitchcock, Nolan, Polanski, Herzog, Truffaut, Bergman, Von Trier, Goddard, Oshima, and Zulawski
I actually didn't get much about Martin's compliments on the MCU but thanks for the clearing it up. I do agree with this. The older I got the more I started to notice comedy or romance films aren't shown in theaters as often as superhero movies and it boggles my mind that Hollywood is relying so much on 2 things. 1, recognizable IP and 2, the superhero genre. They are leaning on to these because of their popularity which sucks because it doesn't give other movie genre and original stories the spotlight. Watching this has really started to make me appreciate the Philippines when it comes to its cinema because here, we're not just releasing superhero or franchises but also our own original films, either romance, comedy or horror. While I was always not a huge fan of my country's filmmaking and storytelling, there is a uniqueness to it and there are some Philippine movies or TV shows that I love. Another great video man.
Loved reading this comment! Especially with your Spider-Man profile picture lol! But I agree with you, it's not that we don't want superhero movies, because some of them are great (damn, I just realized I could have mentioned The Boys in this video too and didn't!)! It's the fact that we have slowly pushed any other kind of movie to the side, and the consequences of that are people who just get bored of going to the movies. Glad to see the Philippines are doing it right!
@@chaseazarian oh don't worry, my pfp will change once I have more time for my channel. I can't wait to finish my Elemental video.
Don’t blame the studios. They are after one thing and one thing only. The money! It’s a business, art is incidental. Do you work for free? I’m sure you don’t. Superhero films and franchise films are a guarantee. When they aren’t, Hollywood will look elsewhere. Just look at history instead of agreeing with a you tube influencer who just wants the clicks so he can,wait for it, make MONEY! Yes folks that’s how it works. Sorry to burst your bubble but some of the greatest films were done to make money! I know, I know. It’s horrible but so is listening to dreck like this. I hope some time in the future we can look back and see that the only thing holding ppl back in this time from making great films is bc they were too busy making videos on TH-cam about the state of films.
in terms of superhero movies, i think there should be new innovations and approaches to make it more better and cinema like
@@TheBatNick2024
I'm not so sure about superheroes and recognisable IP being all people actually care about, or would go see. There's more to this, like for example cowardly executives, who calculate that green lighting a superhero film will not get them fired, even if it flops hard, because "superheroes are the thing that's IN right now, how could I know ****man XVI would fail???".
Furthermore, films are to make money only - is a thing in the US, no doubt, but in other countries there's also public financing options, which do consider other aspects than plain profit when they make their decisions about financing a project.
You also have to wonder is it that superheroes and Marvel are things that the audience likes and goes to see because they are far superior than anything else, or has the studio system actually teached them that this is what cinema is for? Would they go and see, and enjoy something else if that something else would be on the menu and people would know about it? I mean if all you ever ate is McDonald's, and you knew of nothing else, then how could you demand for a high quality steak meal for example?
I think the thing with the early phase one Marvel movies is they actually were complete movies within themselves and because you enjoyed that complete movie, the hook at the end that was this little detail that could carry another movie made you want to see the next movie. While the formula has stayed the same, the movies and TV shows have stopped being complete internal experiences that can stand on there own. And there’s just too many of them.
Hot take, Marvel TV shows were better when Netflix was handling most of them. Jessica Jones and Daredevil were such good shows because while there wasa the casual implication they were in the same universe as the films, the shows were complete experiences run like TV shows and not like small slices of this big cinema universe.
I completely agree with you! Post credits scenes were awesome when they got you excited for what was coming next, rather than being the ONLY part of the story that moved things forward. Thank you for the comment!
@@chaseazarian Yep
Of course he's right. A good movie coming out of Hollywood is a miracle today. His movies tend to be always pretty great, don't they? He's one of the people filmmakers will always learn from, for generations to come.
Explain your first point please...
AI generated comment
@@C1yde902 How do you know?
😂 Speak for yourself I don't learn from Scorsese. But he's a great filmmaker.
Scorsese expanded what I thought cinema could be, partly through his own films (which I love), but even more so through many of the films he's inspired, promoted, and restored. If not for his contributions to the medium, I wouldn't be interested in watching films.
in terms of superhero movies, i think there should be new innovations and approaches to make it more better and cinema like
Same here D-Peezy! Only in the past couple of years did I realize how many films in history this guy has restored to either their highest possible quality, or just saved them from being lost to history forever. Thanks for the comment!
At the time Marvel was putting up the numbers , and fanfare was at it's highest. Hardcore MCU fans were never going to try to understand what he was getting at.
I was one of those hardcore fan but now i get it. Marvel back then had a vision until endgame atleast. But the signs were there which none of us could see where scorcese was absolutely right. Those marvel characters were our friends and we didnt want to turn our backs on them.
right now is the start of the biopic era
Elvis...Oppenheimer...Napoleon, Bob Marley...etc.
and I welcome it, at least people's lives have massively different stories so it's more variant than superhero films
Not gonna lie, the first time I heard him at that time even I was like - okay bro, they're not in the same field as your movies but they're not as bad. But slowly as time passed and Disney-Marvel showed it's true colors + I grew older, I couldn't agree more with him.
I was exactly the same. At first I was like: “You’re wrong, but you have your opinion.” But as time’s gone on and as I’ve been expanding my own knowledge of cinema… he’s right. He’s just right.
Scorsese is basically arguing that cinema shouldn’t just be saturated with the superhero genre, it should be more varied as a medium. Right now Marvel is in cahoots for over saturation and he was right about that.
True
I still love a lot of the superhero movies we’ve gotten as of late, even some of the MCU movies and shows post-Endgame, but even I can agree, they’ve really become oversaturated. There’s a lot of cases where it feels like companies don’t really want us to treat a lot of this as an artistic vision on its own merits or a story that could last for ages and more like they want us to treat them like products, just buy, consume, and be ready to buy the next product, especially in regards to the release schedule of their shows with their movies in Marvel’s case. It’s why there’s still a few shows I haven’t seen and there’s a couple that I am personally not interested in seeing (ex. The Marvels).
in terms of superhero movies, i think there should be new innovations and approaches to make it more better and cinema like. Personally despite not everyone like Joker or the Batman it kinda revolutionized Comic book movies IMO. It Used the character IP to bring it to different directions, while yes joker is practically a rip off of taxi driver and king of comedy, for once the comic book movie genre wasn't all about big super hero battles rather it explores more themes and characterization. Which i think comic book movies really need to have right now. Personally I was fond of a "separate unconnected Universe" that todd Philipps proposed when the joker was first released. He Mentioned DC Black, which is also a separate comic book line in DC, difference is it tackled more mature themes and would be more kinda through provoking than let say mainstream stories. I was on board, because Idk why but WB doesn't seem to see the potential of it. Like It is clear as day that WB cannot handle a cinematic universe, Marvel has different circumstances and advantages that allowed itself to make a coherent cinematic universe while WB doesn't, well they are starting to do it now however I'm still skeptical. I Really disliked the fact that WB tried to copy the MCU even it tone. By being a darker and more gritty tone DC would have actually been more unique rather than just some copy cat. Plus The advantage of making loosely connected character studies off of popular and not so popular IPs would allow them to experiment more and innovate. Joker budget was 150 Million which is not that high compared to the bigger projects if it did not make big it wouldn't have been much of a Loss for WB and they could just drop everything and focus on another project. But it did go big it made a billion. Unlike focusing on a connected universe if one big project fails its back to the drawing board for them. I seriously hope they give some importance to this black label concept todd Philipps made. It really has great potential even to include some of their not so popular projects like maybe some stories from vertigo etc. Or they could use some IPs and remake them to however they wish.
I@@jmgonzales7701 I read and agree with all of what you said.
Both of you nail my exact thoughts! I want great superhero movies just as much as the biggest comic book fan out there, but I and many other are just tired of buying a ticket to the same endless story over and over again, where it seems like the only scene of the 2 1/2 hour movie that pushes the story forward is the mid credits scene. If they start giving us unique stories that have payoff in each solo entry, I think they can get it back on track. Thank you both for the comments!
I think Marty is kind-of right about Marvel in many ways, but I wouldn't agree with him comparing them to theme park rides. As well as being a cinephile I am also a theme park and rollercoaster enthusiast and I would firmly argue that roller coasters and theme park rides are an art form in their own right, as well as extraordinary pieces of engineering. I think a more accurate metaphor would be to compare them to commodities sold in a supermarket, as it's all about selling the next thing and it's not about telling a good story anymore (most of the time anyhow).
This is a completely valid criticism lmao, good point
No, the theme park analogy is better
How about comparing marvel movies too fast foo chains. Or tv dinners.
@@heyyo3737 Fast food chains like McDonalds, maybe - it's all about the franchising.
I think if he made that comparison, he would be more accurate and get even MORE hate hahahaha. I think it's also a valid point though Robin. I love theme parks as well, and that is a whole industry that deserves its own videos! Appreciate the comment!
“You can’t quote a line from aquaman” I felt that!
"We need water to activate the ancient temple"
*pisses at the ancient temple*
- Aquaman, 20XX
An all time interview quote for me! Thanks for the comment Jacob!
The problem non block buster movies have is streaming. There is lots of great mid budget content you can stream anytime you want. Even if it goes to theater you can wait 1 month and watch it on streaming.
The main draw to the theater now is seeing big effects on a big screen.
There was an interview from 2013 where Steven Spielberg and George Lucas said that at a certain point, films that weren’t designed to be blockbuster movies would go to streaming, and perhaps be greenlit as streaming series, with theaters playing only large franchise films.
And ten years later, I’d say we are starting to see at least part of what they were describing.
@@fortynights1513How?
I love how people are so heated about one person's opinion. This guy makes movies that define cinema. He's literally risked his life for his movies and went to hell and back. It should be no surprise that he doesn't go crazy for a guardians of the galaxy movie lol. I'm sure there are Michelin chefs who hate fast food, and top musicians who hate certain kinds of music. And that's fine!
"With age, comes wisdom" is just as relevant as "With great power, comes great responsibility."
To me, the MCU and other big franchises of today are the cinematic equivalent of fast food. They have their place if you like them but shouldn't be mistaken for fine dining or a nutritious home-cooked meal. And they definitely shouldn't be your whole diet.
Is something like back to the future just fast food?
This is subjective, as making a Saga of storytelling is a massive innovation for the art of cinema. That makes you rethink live action adaptation.
@@WL1264 No it wasn’t
Things like Captain Marvel are …..
You are saying this because they make lot of money, if they were making Xmen level of money you would, not be saying this.
@@jameswatson5807 Yeah and no
Yeah they are really successful like Macdonalds but just like Macdonalds they aren’t exactly the best quality of food.
Back to the future told its story and ended the creators even made sure a fourth didn’t happen .
Compare that to Marvel and big studios in general that just make never ending franchises just for profit
Audiences are getting dumber, they no longer seek films that have impact and meaning they want easy and mindless.
When they do find anything challenging they use TH-cam to understand it instead of thinking.
I can't respect fully grown adults whose main thing is superheroes and star wars.
Elaborate please
Taxi Driver, Shutter Island and the Wolf of Wall Street - three of my favorite movies of all time.
Why?
Awesome video!! I stand with Marty. The Creator is amazing! Saw it in IMAX. Can we also talk about how ridiculous it is that we usually only get a one week window to watch new films in IMAX or Dolby?? AND how ridiculous it is to blanket all the screens & showtimes with just one or two movies?? That is definitely a result of the superhero genre as well. So glad it's ending however the theater showings scheduled has not and it's gotta be a big financial mistake as well. Looks like at least Taylor Swift is saving the theater business this year!
Appreciate it Brent! Glad you loved it! I think there is just too much competition among the larger films these days, which is why it is important to see something like The Creator in a high format when we get the chance to. Even though it wasn't one of my favorites of the year, it was just a nice breath of fresh air for me. Thank you for the comment!
This is because there is a very big difference between a director and an artist. Sure he may not have box office cash cows but, his films a cut above. I cannot wait for Tears of the Flower Moon and I personally think Silence is a masterpiece. Also, as a true comic book fan (an actual reader of comic books) that comic book films while they are fun they are NOTHING in comparison to the source material. I tell people who adore MCU films to read the origonal comic book for Civil War and guarentee them their whole attitude towards the MCU will change. I will say that the last great comedy we got since Superbad was Everybody Wants Some!!. Such a feel good funny movie.
Appreciate the comment Steve! I'm actually giving Silence a rewatch sometime over the next couple days, didn't fully click with me on my first watch but admittedly I remember being exhausted that day and seeing a late night viewing, so I think it deserves a second look in a more ideal situation hahaha! I never read comic books growing up but I could only imagine how much more lively the source material is. I wish I loved Everybody Wants Some too, but that will get a second shot from me some day too! I'm just super biased with Dazed and Confused being my favorite movie lol!
@@chaseazarian I personally love Andrew Garfield's performace in that film. I also have a major apprecaition for moments in history that you don't get much in the history books. I didn't know a single think about fuedal Japan at this point so it was very interesting to learn about their attidute during the age of exploration. There is no reason to pit Dazed and Everybody against one another they are each perfect in their own ways. I am a bit more partial to Everybody Wants Some!! because it's about the 80s and also the first day of that film takes place on my birthday exactly one year before I was born so I kinda have a connection with it. Plus...I love Finn in that movie.
I don’t think using Civil War as cite of comparison is a good way to change MCU fans minds seeing how the source material is a very decisive work whose main point of conflict isn’t very clear as to what it is supposed to be and fail at making it a nuance hero vs. hero conflict compare to the movies (seriously, Iron Man is a lot more sympathetic in the films than he was in the comics despite being the “right” side).
If you write stuff like this you should not cite Civil War as an Example. That Comic was bad and the movie was story-wise a lot better. In the movie they managed to have both sides have some good arguments . In the comic the pro-reg side got out of control quickly and got into throw them all into the negative zone mode and think having people like Bullseye on your side would not be a problem. And that is not even talking about Clone-Thor. The only thing this comic should be an example of is character assasination.
@@BigK13372 One of the many things the movie got better is that both sides got arguments to back them up. I mean if they had not put Wanda under House arrest Steve would have signed the accord. Compared to the comic that painted the pro reg side not in a flattering light.
make a coming of age movie with kids that has heart to it like sandlot, stand by me, and earlier stranger things. those kinda movies always hit home and they can be done with a lower budget
Y'know, Mr. Marty is right. That's why I'm practicing screenplays so that I can make my dreams of having a frilly, girly, campy, emotionally driven magical girl indie movie a reality.
Love to hear that Sassy! Keep up the hard work and never stop! I appreciate the comment!
Thank you 🥰🥰🥰🥰@@chaseazarian
Great video destruction on the topic! I love how you express your opinions about this feud and explain Scorsese’s side where a lot of people villainize. I'm not choosing a “side” like social media, but I really do see where Scorsese is coming from and his concerns. I may not agree with everything he says but in the grand scheme of things, his concerns are justified.
Thank You for the compliment Zaiah! Even though I chose the Scorsese side, I jsut want Marvel and these other franchises to give us better movies, because the fans deserve it! And at the same time, I want these Studios to make more of an effort to get the public excited about smaller, exciting movies that might be a bit different than the status quo. Appreciate you looking at both sides!
@@chaseazarian of course! Keep up the great work!
John Campea's statement is a demonstration of the reason why society is fucked. Everyone cares only about feelings.
No need to think.Feel.
People also have been so convinced that the only thing that matters is franchises and shared universes, that all the last DC movies were discarded from the begining by most because "what's the point if they're rebooting the universe". I'm not saying they were great or anything, but they didn't give them a chance just because of that.
This is incredibly surface level and will sound like I don’t know what I’m talking about, because I don’t, but here goes. With the 2020 quarantine, many small independent businesses were at risk of shutting, down, and many did. That’s when we saw this big push in the media to support local business. Support the American joe and his family with their dream. Support their happiness. And I feel like this translated to other independent stuff as well. We saw a surge in content creation, and not just from big channels. Even now I’m constantly recommended small TH-camrs I’ve never heard of, and they’re pretty good. We also saw more indie gaming happening, since big studios were shut down and people were board at home. This is entirely a guess, but I predict we’ll see a big movement in indie films as well, and they will gain more popularity.
I love superheroes as much as the next guy, but I also love quality film making and that is the big difference between the best and the modern superhero movies. Quality writing, amazing cinematography, and thought provoking themes, these are the things that I grew to love as I got older and appreciated these movies for more than just cool action and spectacle. Things like The Boys and Invincible are perfect examples of how it can be done since the audience has also gotten older and can handle more mature and darker themes
Much of Marvels catalogue has become just glorified sitcoms all with very similar plots so none of it feels original or unique and all of it is lacking in depth. Lot of ok movies that are enjoyable enough to watch once but almost none of it will be remembered 10+ years from now. Unlike a lot of the really great superhero films like The Dark Knight or Logan which people will remember for generations because they have compelling narratives, more memorable characters, and exceptional storytelling. I don't think it's a coincidence that non-MCU films tend to be the best superhero movies. The MCU is basically designed to eliminate the creative process in favor of more efficiently producing films. Great for quantity, but it hurts the quality. And you get a dozen or more films within a short period of time but only one or two are anything that really sticks with you.
I was initially kind of put off by his comments on the MCU because when he first said I was still fully on the hype train as the MCU was still peaking or had just peaked but as time goes on and the more Marvel has been spiraling down, the more I’ve come to understand what he meant.
Great job with this project, Chase! Best take I’ve seen on this topic.
Like I genuinely do not understand how this argument has carried on to this day, Marty was right! And James Grays take on this epidemic is the cherry on top. I’ve been trying to find his audio interview (I believe Lost City of Z was making its rounds) where he made the comparison to modern movie goers being conditioned to eat only McDonalds and then get upset when they’re eventually challenged with something new. It’s hilarious, scathing, but so true. I hope it resurfaces some day.
The fact I’m not gonna be able to watch Royal Hotel in theaters because it’ll cost me around nearly $50 to Uber back and forth (not playing in the town I’m currently residing in) including the ticket price is ridiculous.
(sigh) anyway Killers of the Flower Moon looks great
Appreciate you as always Will! Even though the few films I have seen from Gray are not my favorite, that Aquaman segment really made me love the guy! I've never seen that audio interview, but I'll have to scour the internet with you to find it! And that's exactly what I mean^. I think a lot of people in the online film community take the access they have to local festivals or indie theaters (countless of them if you are in a place like NYC), that the rest of the country does not have for granted, and if these movies don't make money, why would those small, more remote theaters even consider showing them? It's a bleak situation, but like Tarantino said, I hope the pendulum is inevitably going to swing the other way, and the general public will once again fall in love with the indie movie. Thanks for the comment man!
Marty was right.
his statement became a golden wine.
I would love for mid budget movies to come back because I want to watch the next knights tale
I've said this many times before and I'll continue to say it - the MCU is like a hamburger and fries meal. We all enjoy the familiar simple comfort of a good burger and fries, but no one (unless they're ridiculously picky) wants to eat just burgers and fries for every meal. Sometimes you want sushi, or pizza, or tacos, or something else altogether. At its apex, the MCU was basically forcing everyone else to serve burgers and fries, just with maybe some minor differences (seasonings, toppings, etc), which just made the issue worse.
The more childish "fandom rivalry" aspects aside, this was EXACTLY what people who wanted the DCEU to be its own kind of thing were worried about and tried to push back against. There was a reason why the Barbie/Oppenheimer double release was such a massive event.
Another issue is that the cinema experience isn't cheap anymore like back in the days. MCU hamburger and fries cost like three star French cuisine at a fancy restaurant.
@@mlo009Fandom Rivalry?
I agree as well. What I'm trying to wrap my brain around is the idea of where is the line between the amusement park movies and cinema. Is it a spectrum? Some being more cinema than others? And how would a writer or director of a movie try to ensure that their work is considered cinema and not just an average popcorn movie to turn your brain off to?
Sam raimi spiderman was indeed a cinema but as long disney took over marvel it indeed became an Rollercoaster
I hate Disney not marvel
I agree that the over saturation of franchise and superhero movies is bad. I would love to see more different kind of film come back to the table. But I would have to disagree that the MCU-at least till the end of endgame-was samey. Looking at all the films in phase one, to me personally, most just felt so different in numerous kinds of ways. Yes, some of them did fall into the formula type, but the consistent quality these films retained was outstanding to me. To a point that I used to always go into a marvel movie being comfortable that I’d have something worth my time, and even if it wasn’t the best, I’d at least be able to watch a fun action flick even at their worst. At least that was the case until after endgame, then it all just went to shit, with the MCU making a genuinely great film becoming a rarity. (Guardians 3, No Way Home and Shang Chi, etc etc).
That being said, Marvel really needs to slow tf down with their films and give other types of films a chance. Not just because they’re saturating the market, but because pushing out too many films is affecting their quality greatly. I mean… Eternals might be the most boring piece of shit I’ve ever seen in my life.
I would also like to add that I don’t agree with people who think MCU fan’s are lesser in any way because they don’t class it as real cinema. Who are they to dictate what real cinema is? That’s a very unfair stance to take. There’s nothing wrong with disliking marvel, but that doesn’t mean you’re better than someone else because you’ve watched the godfather.
But that’s just my stance on it.
Thank you for the comment Daniel! Even though I made the comment, I agree with you about everything up to Endgame! Even though it was never my favorite, there was always a pretty consistent level of quality. Somebody that didn't like superhero movies probably wouldn't dig many of them, but for fans they KNEW that the MCU would give them something good two or three times a year. With the amount of Disney+ series and movie releases over the past year, it just feels like they stopped prioritizing the quality and instead went into "Let's see how many of these we can crank out" mode, and I have yet to find a fan that prefers the Post-Endgame projects to the Pre-Endgame projects. I appreciate the comment and the healthy discussion man! I think all everybody wants are good movies, whether it's a superhero movie or a gangster flick or a rom com etc. etc., and giving each movie a huge push into the theaters will help everything work itself out. Thanks for the comment again!
@@chaseazarian No prob man. Great video!
in terms of superhero movies, i think there should be new innovations and approaches to make it more better and cinema like. Personally despite not everyone like Joker or the Batman it kinda revolutionized Comic book movies IMO. It Used the character IP to bring it to different directions, while yes joker is practically a rip off of taxi driver and king of comedy, for once the comic book movie genre wasn't all about big super hero battles rather it explores more themes and characterization. Which i think comic book movies really need to have right now. Personally I was fond of a "separate unconnected Universe" that todd Philipps proposed when the joker was first released. He Mentioned DC Black, which is also a separate comic book line in DC, difference is it tackled more mature themes and would be more kinda through provoking than let say mainstream stories. I was on board, because Idk why but WB doesn't seem to see the potential of it. Like It is clear as day that WB cannot handle a cinematic universe, Marvel has different circumstances and advantages that allowed itself to make a coherent cinematic universe while WB doesn't, well they are starting to do it now however I'm still skeptical. I Really disliked the fact that WB tried to copy the MCU even it tone. By being a darker and more gritty tone DC would have actually been more unique rather than just some copy cat. Plus The advantage of making loosely connected character studies off of popular and not so popular IPs would allow them to experiment more and innovate. Joker budget was 150 Million which is not that high compared to the bigger projects if it did not make big it wouldn't have been much of a Loss for WB and they could just drop everything and focus on another project. But it did go big it made a billion. Unlike focusing on a connected universe if one big project fails its back to the drawing board for them. I seriously hope they give some importance to this black label concept todd Philipps made. It really has great potential even to include some of their not so popular projects like maybe some stories from vertigo etc. Or they could use some IPs and remake them to however they wish.
@@jmgonzales7701 Yeah DC and WB’s approach was so crap
Holy shit are we still talking about what Martin thinks of these movies? Who gives a fuck? We know the movies are bad now and getting worse. His take isn't unique or interesting on the topic. Idk how theres anything to disect about his take on Marvel.
Explain please
Controversial take, non franchise movies died when Harvey Weinstein banished.
Research his push into making mid budget movies recognized and the actors gain notoriety.
Evil man indeed but his efforts for the craft shouldn’t be denied.
It’s hilarious how so many people would rather defend the cookie cutter corporate Marvel approach to filmmaking than the original Scorsese films. The marvel MCU movies are all basically the same story with a new coat of paint
Cry some more
Civil war and guardians of the galaxy are the same?
@@LUKAS_956what a great argument lmao
@@TobiasCramon12 yea thank you I thought that too 😊
Since critiquing silent films over on my channel I've become part of the silent film community, when Turner Classic Movies changed hands earlier this year we gasped. TCM is currently preserving silent films and Scorsese is part of that project, as well as two other directors. We lost a lot of films during wartime because film materials were needed in one way or another, or due to studio fires. So when these films are found in an attic or stuffed in random clutter (recently another segment of Theda Bara's Cleopatra was found), it's great to receive the chance to preserve them because so many films are lost forever. Cheers!
8:39 James Gray nailed it right on the head. As someone who's never been particularly interested in superhero or other action films, I've pretty much stopped going to new movies almost entirely because Hollywood doesn't make films for people like me anymore. And if I don't want to see any of their current output, then there are probably untold numbers of others that feel the same way. Bread and circuses, anybody?
I don’t care how a movie is made. Just as long as it has a good storyline. And that the actors directors writers whoever help make the movie gets their fair share of the work that they help made the movie come to life. Because they worked hard and deserve what they did.
I think Oppenheimer and Barbie is the start of the next phase. Brand movies and big budget biopics.
I didn't particularly like EEAAO but I was rooting for it to win awards because I knew that it would be a symbolic win for original IP. It further sent a message to studio execs that not everything needs to be a reboot or a sequel to succeed.
Scorcese's argument is about how the massive success of Marvel was breeding a hollywood culture in which a business strategy built around BIG IP was sucking all of the oxygen out of the run. Success for films like EEAAO, Oppenheimer, Nope, and Barbie - coupled with Marvel's waning success of course, helps bring us closer to more relatively original greenlights.
You kinda changed my mind. I was kinda neutral, but a bit more in the Marvel camp, and just put it into perspective for me. You've earned yourself another subscriber
I appreciate that man! I don't want people to stop being a Marvel fan, I just want Marvel to make the BEST movies possible, while also not suffocating out every other kind of film. Love having you in this community and hope I can deliver the best videos possible for you!
@@chaseazarian I totally agree, and don't get me wrong I'm still a Marvel fan, but I guess I just hadn't really gotten Scorsese's point (although I also think he could have worded it in a clearer way). Diversity in film genres and styles is very important
Man, I hope someone loves me as much Martin Scorsese loves films man. Bless him for everything he's given to his field
I love how many people are on a 1st name basis with Mr Scorsese 😂
With the impact this man has made on my life, Marty just rolls off the tongue at this point hahaha! Would be honored to meet Mr. Scorsese one of these days
The idea that films should be made in order to make the general audience feel anything at all is really sad. Film should be a window into a thought experience we may find impossible to find anywhere else in everyday life, not a cheap thrill we can on average get from any other form of entertainment.
Disney has destroyed Marvel and Star Wars, IMO
The absolute truth and Marvel is going down the same toilet as Star Wars and honestly Revenge Of The Sith is a great film and much better than what Star Wars gave is recently
@@jasongarland3060RoTS is not a great movie. SW nerds just defend it because of the lore...
internet: scorsese is one of the best directors
scorsese: marvel sucks ass
internet: scorsese is THE worst director of all time and he's wrong about everything
i rest my case
"We will not allow you to have Star Wars"
At this point is that even a bad thing anymore? 😂
They should not have allowed Rise of Skywalker to play in any theaters hahaha! I appreciate the comment!
I'm absolutely not a movie fan, especially not super hero movies, but you kept me watching the entire video on 100% attention. Great video
Even ghost busters couldn’t be made today. I’m not talking about the last two ghost busters. I mean the 1982 one. It would be too slow paced and the they don’t blabber enough. Makes me wonder how many movies are just being passed on, strictly because they don’t have enough filler. What happened to story and character driven film?
I have the exact same questions as you...
Why couldn't be made today?
“You’d can’t quote a single quote from these blockbusters” amen
Challenge Accepted
“That’s my secret Cap, I’m always angry.”
“Perfectly balanced. As it should be.”
“He may be your father, but he sure ain’t your daddy.”
“ANOTHER!”
“THE PRICE OF FREEDOM IS HIGH, IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN. AND IT’S A PRICE I’M WILLING TO PAY. AND IF I’M THE ONLY ONE, THEN SO BE IT. BUT I’M WILLING TO BET I’M NOT.” - CAPTAIN AMERICA
@@BigK13372"For Time Always"
"TALOKAN! TALOKAN!'
"Are you happy?"
"You and I remember Budapest very differently"
"Somebody give that man a shield!"
"Hello your Highness, I'm Clint. I do not care."
I think in the last decade or so I've only watched a handful of movies at a cinema. Last movie I saw on a big screen was Oppenheimer and I immediately knew why I don't go more often.
Prices have become absolutely absurd, like I could buy a movie several times on Amazon for the price of just 1 ticket and the overall experience isn't that special anymore anyway.
But I think one of the main reasons why I stopped to go in the first place is the audience. Out of the 'I don't know how many times' I last went to a cinema EVERY TIME I got annoyed by someone or at least 1 group of people.
In Oppenheimer someone was so obnoxious to the entire room that halfway through the movie the security had to escort him out. I think that dude was either super drunk or high on something but yea.. considering I have to spend that much money (the group of people I'm going with too) I at least want to at least have an enjoyable experience.
At home I have better things to do than to sit through a 2,5h movie tho, so I rarely watch movies in general anymore, unfortunately.
I think the entertainment industry as a whole has become a complete shitshow, gaming in particular. Everything needs to be cheaper, quicker in production, lower risk,... but has to make even more revenue. You can't have your cake and eat it too. It's a disease AAA studios and publishers have inflicted on themselves and it's only getting worse with (relatively) high interest rates.
Hope something seriously breaks and resets the entire market.
Not only that I agree with Scorsese about Marvel/DC/any franchise being a theme park, but my thought on them goes even further. I dont think it is like a theme park, but like a single ride which is same everytime just repainted into different color every day. From all Marvel movies I watched only few of them I watched in full and none of them I wish to watch again. In my opinion they are all the same, predictable, great vfx though, and dont carry absolutely anything inovative and original. I dont think anything bad about people liking them, I grew up with a different kind of comic books and understand why people would like to watch them, but regarding these movies they dont do anything from me......IMO one episode of The Boys (which is not for everyone) hold more storytelling, world building and good characters then all MCU/DCU/anyCU....... combined
That John Compea point wasn’t the worst but comparing a tv show first of all to 1 Scorsese film was an awful example and showed how weak his argument was
As a professional musician. I tend to tell people that heavy EDM and rave music is not music.
It is an entirely different artform. It is sound design more than music composition.
I love EDM and I make it myself as well. And I still dont think it should be in the same category as music.
We are living in “Idiocracy”, in a time where that movie could never be made
Idiocracy can be made, but it's now a documentary.
Technically, they make it every day on the news without even trying!
@@Squidward_TikilandIdiocracy (2005) was predictive programming.
Isn't the attraction of Marvel movies similar to the attraction of professional wrestling?
Yes
When he made this i was furious at him because i was mcu fan and mcu was at it's peak but now looking back damn he was spot on.
Lol the mcu is trash for kids
2019 was not peak lmao
@@Jarochito- Endgame was released in 2019 that was the peak of MCU
@@sammybosak10 we talking quality or story?
@@Jarochito- Trend wise. Mcu's popularity was at it's peak.
Best to replace the term Indie movies with Creative movies. What is lacking generally in cinema is creativity and good writing - partly because of interference from the movie companies too scared to take a risk. Read the history of Alien 3 and what David Fincher had to put up with.
Man, I was caught offguard by the brando impression of James gray, that was too accurate😅
He's too good at it!
Four faces on the Mount Rushmore of movie directors
1)Scorsese
2)Francis Ford Copolla
3)Quinton Tarantino
4)Alfred Hitchcock or Stanley Kubrick
What you guys think? 🤷🏽♂️
Should also add Christopher Nolan! :)
Your Mount Rushmore is all right. Here's mine
Steven Spielberg
James Cameron
Guillermo Del Toro
And Quentin Tarantino
After listening to how Disney bullied theaters over Star Wars I’m really enjoying how Taylor Swift and Beyoncé cut deals with theater directly for their concert movies that left the studios out in the cold.
Best revenge ever 😂
As they should! I'm loving it too haha! Appreciate the comment Deary!
Success, as in box office takings, is not a marker of quality. The most successful 'restaurant' in the place you live is McDonalds, but it isn't the best food in that location.
I think nowadays there's a big problem with the artistic freedom they literally use censorship. You can't even find nowadays a really good comedy movie because you can't make fun of any kind of people because of our hypersensitive society. The Oscar prize requirements are a joke. If Oppenheimer won't get any oscar because there's not minors or LMBTQ in it. It will be the end of artistic freedom. (Change my mind) (p.s. I'm not racist or any kind of phobic person, I just want to see good movies and not trash (Barbie). I may don't understand the situation I live in Eastern Europe please tell me what's going on with the society in the US).
Every one of my favorite quotes that I can spontaneously pull out of my head without thinking come from the classic films. As much as I enjoy the Marvel universe, it is sort of cotton candy for The Brain.
Wait, who is that guy who you showed a clip of saying that Ms. Marvel made him more emotional than a Scorsese film has? The climax of Silence is literally the most emotional part of a film I've ever seen. I know i shouldn't judge a guy based off of one thing he said but man, I'm speechless. Like that film IS Scorsese to me, that moment is the most pure, emotional form of cinema that exists. Wtf?
Great video man , i do hope that you find success in Hollywood and help to make it better than it's and better than it will be without you.
Appreciate the kind words man! I'm trying my best to get there, and whenever I make it I'll try my best to do just that!
Even people who like the MCU realised in phase 2 that the movies follow a similar pattern. I doubt you were one of the 1st ones to notice
Loved your video; liked and subscribed. I wish I was a film maker myself because I complete agree with all your points
Thank you homie! It's never too late to try and make it happen!