Anderson Silva used Bong Sau to Defeat Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.? Vertical Jabs and Kung Fu for Boxing

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ย. 2024
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ความคิดเห็น • 1K

  • @hard2hurt
    @hard2hurt  3 ปีที่แล้ว +262

    Question for Viewers: So like... Kung Fu or nah?

  • @RobotLVS
    @RobotLVS 3 ปีที่แล้ว +801

    It turns out Silva is a really smart fighter. He should try out the UFC someday, might do good.

    • @yourmomcallsmedaddy7274
      @yourmomcallsmedaddy7274 3 ปีที่แล้ว +82

      Yeah,if he learns how to use low kicks he would be a monster.

    • @trinidad510
      @trinidad510 3 ปีที่แล้ว +78

      He'd never make it in MMA, he's barely starting to box at 40 smh

    • @esairamos6021
      @esairamos6021 3 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      Yall dead ass?

    • @lalchungnungaralte9104
      @lalchungnungaralte9104 3 ปีที่แล้ว +63

      @@esairamos6021 Twas a joke sir

    • @AlmightyAnt300
      @AlmightyAnt300 3 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      His brother did well in UFC. But Silva is in his 40's

  • @altermellion6984
    @altermellion6984 3 ปีที่แล้ว +371

    The vertical jab is proper boxing too. Jack Dempsey wrote about it in his book.
    According to him, is actually a pure punch, because the alignment of the bones and the direction of the strikes are perfect.

    • @stevestrangelove4970
      @stevestrangelove4970 3 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      it also appears in sabate and in colonel thomas hoyer book. but silva probably got it from some king fu variant.

    • @SwordTune
      @SwordTune 3 ปีที่แล้ว +44

      @@stevestrangelove4970 It's the characteristic punch of Wing Chun.

    • @Sujiceel
      @Sujiceel 3 ปีที่แล้ว +30

      A vertical jab is one of Pacquiao's bread and butter too.

    • @RawDoggin_78
      @RawDoggin_78 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      until you whack your pinky knuckle into the guys face
      ouch

    • @SwordTune
      @SwordTune 3 ปีที่แล้ว +49

      @@RawDoggin_78 you can fuck up on a horizontal punch too. English pugilists, the old old school boxers, use the vertical punch predominantly. They had no gloves, often no wraps either. And they would fight from week to week for that sweet prize money. They couldn't afford to break a pinky, and they still used vertical punches.
      Hitting things with your hands has some inherent risk. There's always a chance of injury. That doesn't make vertical more or less right than horizontal.

  • @arbogast4950
    @arbogast4950 3 ปีที่แล้ว +166

    Changquan dork here, vertical jabs/punches are the first punches you learn. Same thing with the bridging/framing technique (glute scoot) you did. Kung Fu has the deepest well with the leakiest bucket. I feel like the best people to learn it are those that have already had some type of fighting experience. Everyone else just turns into dancers.

    • @Cynry
      @Cynry 3 ปีที่แล้ว +44

      Deepest well with the leakiest bucket... Man, that is so well said. I'm afraid that at this point, kung fu is bound to die of ridicule in its current form, only to be reborn again through MMA. At the end of the day, a body is a body, so hand to hand combat can only evolve so much. After that, it's all trends, forgetting and discovering again. But the well surrounding MMA has yet to reach the depth of kung fu. Something non kung fu nerds hate hearing, and that most kung fu practitionners will never get to feel, being too busy dancing. Oh well.

    • @arbogast4950
      @arbogast4950 3 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      @@Cynry I left my school when the instructor refused to throw in more modern training methods. Even though several students improved after some bag work and grappling.

    • @Cynry
      @Cynry 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      @@arbogast4950 I can only imagine... I followed the path of tai chi, and I had to literally travel over the world to find good teachers. Most local places aren't even worth stepping into for someone interested in the martial side of the art. Sparring seems to have been forgotten for a few generations, when it's supposed to be the pressure under which you build the very structure necessary to "perform the art". Without it, the structure can be forgotten, and the forms become empty while still looking beautiful (hello wushu). I don't know much about wing chun, but I'm fairly sure it's similar. The chain punches being a prime example, without the little "bounce" provided by a proper structure, good luck getting any power behind them. But that's just from personal research, I never was trained in the art, so maybe you will correct me.

    • @gregoryv8150
      @gregoryv8150 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Well articulated good Sir.

    • @blackmetalcumbia
      @blackmetalcumbia 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Kung Fu is already evolve in regards combat development but was forgotten for lack of continuity.
      This martial art is done correctly if the apprentice already know how fighting work.
      Jet Kune Do die with Bruce Lee and is the work of mma fighters to pay homage of the art by show how Kune work in reality.
      Jet Kune Do rest in the dust with all other underrated arts like Pre Quensberry boxing, Kudo and mongolian wrestling. Talking about mma of course.

  • @Condeycon
    @Condeycon 3 ปีที่แล้ว +173

    My favorite Icey Mike catchphrase made another appearance:
    "I'm not trying to do but I'm also not NOT trying to do "

    • @hard2hurt
      @hard2hurt  3 ปีที่แล้ว +65

      There's a reason I wear a lot of grey lol

  • @SenseiSeth
    @SenseiSeth 3 ปีที่แล้ว +299

    Idk man looks like karate to me

    • @victorvigorous7125
      @victorvigorous7125 3 ปีที่แล้ว +29

      karate comes from kung fu originally so I am certain there are many similar techniques.

    • @wernerfuhry
      @wernerfuhry 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @Sensei Seth idk man was thinking the same

    • @jaketheasianguy3307
      @jaketheasianguy3307 3 ปีที่แล้ว +41

      Idk man, people around the world all have 2 arms and 2 legs so fighting doesn't look that much different

    • @Jay-Jones
      @Jay-Jones 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Lol you would think its karate, Seth

    • @aisforannihilation1662
      @aisforannihilation1662 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Chubby surprise 😂

  • @FightCommentary
    @FightCommentary 3 ปีที่แล้ว +117

    I'm going to put this on a Wing Chun page. So we'll have a lot of people from there give you feedback.

  • @nicolaskoialainski2930
    @nicolaskoialainski2930 3 ปีที่แล้ว +42

    It’s incredible how Anderson can still amaze us with unorthodox techniques

    • @lowlowseesee
      @lowlowseesee 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      a martial artist to the core

  • @SenseiSeth
    @SenseiSeth 3 ปีที่แล้ว +200

    Looks like some Bunkai from Naihanchi

    • @bigruckus8664
      @bigruckus8664 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Wagwan Seth

    • @lucas9751
      @lucas9751 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Stop speaking French

    • @Ninjacob00
      @Ninjacob00 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Friggin weeeeeb. Jk Seth

    • @Sujiceel
      @Sujiceel 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      neeeerd.

    • @lalchungnungaralte9104
      @lalchungnungaralte9104 3 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Makes sense since kung fu influenced karate big time. How do i know this you may ask? Two words... Karate Nerd lol. I saw this meme somewhere that said "After you learn it, everything is Naihanchi"

  • @FightCommentary
    @FightCommentary 3 ปีที่แล้ว +57

    That was an awesome explanation at the end of the video of a forearm push technique. Like you said, a lot of glute activation.

    • @TangoDown48
      @TangoDown48 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It's all in the butt.

  • @BlondesGitanes
    @BlondesGitanes 3 ปีที่แล้ว +116

    "If you want more tips and tricks and how to get chicks"
    True purpose revealed

    • @hard2hurt
      @hard2hurt  3 ปีที่แล้ว +29

      If I started doing charisma/pua content you guys would be along for a RIDE

    • @mayurtomar4044
      @mayurtomar4044 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@hard2hurt how to pick up chicks using by your bald head as an advantage

    • @anonymousshawn9996
      @anonymousshawn9996 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      How to get your wife to turn into Lorena Bobbit

    • @showmae8459
      @showmae8459 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@hard2hurt more kicks more chicks

    • @BigTonyGee
      @BigTonyGee 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      The advanced moves!

  • @BurningArt78
    @BurningArt78 3 ปีที่แล้ว +103

    Yeh that's pretty much Bong Sau. Or where they stop a punch ( with specifically a Wing Chun style parry ) and you kinda 'fold around it', then follow up with one of those hand chops you hate. :)

    • @SwordTune
      @SwordTune 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Or lop sao into a backfist

    • @BurningArt78
      @BurningArt78 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@SwordTune forgot to mention the Lop Sao, but was taught to avoid the backfist as you might break your metacarpals. It's a pretty specific outcome to be fair, and I doubt it would ever actually go down like that.
      Wing Chun is great, but it caters too much to Wing Chun opposition and Wing Chun responses.
      I did it for years ( and even met Ip Chun! ) but I can see why it's not successful against MMA or any well rounded fighter - it just doesn't have the real answers. I box now.

    • @SwordTune
      @SwordTune 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@BurningArt78 I mix WC with boxing and I think the same can be said of a very strict, rigid boxing curriculum. Boxing works best against boxing, the best fighters make their boxing work because they're creative and cunning.
      Pure WC but with modern training can be as viable as any other "pure" style like boxing. But when you combine their principles you get something much better.

    • @TripleEightss
      @TripleEightss 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      lol... youbers.

    • @WhiteHawkmma
      @WhiteHawkmma 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@BurningArt78 a man i believe named Alan Orr trains MMA fighters who are fairly successful and he teaches WC. I've only seen a couple fights on fb groups that hes uploaded from his students, but I'm sure you can find it on youtube too. WC or any style of kung fu mostly just looks like unorthodox kickboxing when applied realistically, not the silly chi sao or any of that lol

  • @joe94c
    @joe94c 3 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    And this is why effectively pressure tested schools of kung Fu do work. The techniques are good. Just majority of the time people haven't got a clue what to do with them

  • @joshuahitchins1897
    @joshuahitchins1897 3 ปีที่แล้ว +36

    I absolutely love your wingman. He subtly gives you shit, and it's great.

    • @ant3352
      @ant3352 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Takes an elbow to the head - "yeah that sucks"
      And then smashes h2h back with a headbutt to the chest haha that was a great exchange.

  • @letsgojake.4078
    @letsgojake.4078 3 ปีที่แล้ว +131

    Steven Segal taught him that.

    • @redacted9164
      @redacted9164 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      He could dominate Ngannou with his aikido alone

    • @stevenseagull7589
      @stevenseagull7589 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Yes, he did.

    • @wisecounsel6135
      @wisecounsel6135 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@stevenseagull7589 haha

    • @manfrominternet
      @manfrominternet 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Segal is the real goat

    • @lucas9751
      @lucas9751 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      So according to Seagull, HE actually beat Chavez Jr

  • @IzzoWingChun
    @IzzoWingChun 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    In the first 1:15 min of this video, you explained the concept of Bong Sau better than most in Wing Chun. Dear lord, THANK YOU for showing that it’s nothing more than the shape of the anatomy that can be applied to fit the fighter’s need! Bravo and absolutely well f’ing done!

  • @fightingfox101
    @fightingfox101 3 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Definitely a Bong Sau, one if the basic moves from Wing Chun!

  • @l.y.1486
    @l.y.1486 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    The elbow thing is interesting. I box and go Kung fu (yellow sash). So far I learned the elbow thing from boxing. I watched one of the seasoned fighters from the boxing studio work on a bag, and he kept moving his elbow like that. When I was doing my own bag work, I did it on instinct and realized that it’s used to deflect an attack.

  • @benmoore6327
    @benmoore6327 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    That extra "uh!" Is call fa Jin, it is definitely done in lots of Kung Fu styles. It's like giving the strike a little stank.

  • @GoHammerAndTongs
    @GoHammerAndTongs 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Hey mate!
    Love your work. Wing chun nerd for the past 10 years and have done other kung fu forms before that (northern mantis, bajiquan, taijiquan) and other traditional martial arts. I agree the three concepts you listed are found in wing chun. Whether he got it from wing chun or something else doesn't matter, as the human body can only configure itself in so many ways before it is no longer efficient.
    1. The vertical fist can be used exactly like that. Like a snake shooting through thin gaps in the guard. As you get better at the strike and getting your body behind it like you described in the 3rd concept, you can keep the vertical fist but roll out or in the elbow to act as a deflection while striking. So striking through the opponents strike (of course, you need to practice this extensively and in a non-compliant setting, otherwise it is just words).
    2. The bong sau can be used like that, and it is seen in that shape in the wooden dummy form. Mind you, bong sau is just a shape, and with practice the bong sau shape is less important than the body mechanics and the sensitivity to adapt to the contact point to get the affect you want. The popular saying in wing chun is "do not become a slave to wing chun." Meaning that you do not enslave yourself to the shape and position that it is seen in the form, and once you have mastered the set position, countless variations will come out.
    3. The forearm frame and bumping through the body is a "Lan Sau" shape that can be seen in the "chum kiu" form. In the form the body positioning is different and more upright, but as I said in the second point, mastery opens up later variations. The main point is how to frame with the arm so that you are covered, and drive through your body and legs.
    Would love to discuss more if you are interested.
    Cheers

  • @Mr440c
    @Mr440c 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    'Vertical jab' is really a Razor Ruddock's 'Smash'. Great technique. The arm must fly all the way out from behind your back.

    • @chrisgrudge6964
      @chrisgrudge6964 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Smash came to my mind but it’s more of an uppercut, and one you should load up on with power. Application is the same though.

  • @RamonChiNangWong078
    @RamonChiNangWong078 3 ปีที่แล้ว +100

    "Silva uses bong sao in his boxing match"
    Congrats, You've just gave ammos to all the wing chun Youbers for years to make contents about.

    • @hard2hurt
      @hard2hurt  3 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      I like to wind them up and then knock them over.

    • @mellonhead9568
      @mellonhead9568 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hehehhehe wing Chun be growing hehehheheheehehehhehehrhrhr

    • @umeshpatel3606
      @umeshpatel3606 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      yeah i did it for 6 years!bong sau is a passive motion

  • @jacobdehahn1163
    @jacobdehahn1163 3 ปีที่แล้ว +86

    "Want more tips and tricks and how to get chicks" I think he's onto something here. Made me laugh 😂

  • @BryanBarcelo
    @BryanBarcelo 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Silva used MMA Stand-up/Boxing which consists of multiple infighting striking techniques that utilize elbows to attack, defend and to create some space for punches.

  • @jaketheasianguy3307
    @jaketheasianguy3307 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I always feel vertical punches are more natural to throw than horizontal punches, even when wearing gloves. And i didn't even know any Kung fu

  • @ErnestoQuinones
    @ErnestoQuinones 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I use that vertical jab all the time. It goes in through the guard like butter, especially if you set it up like you explained.

  • @ultimatecomeback9645
    @ultimatecomeback9645 3 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    bong sao isn't really for knocking punches to the side. That's more of a pak sao thing. bong sao is more for moving in front of you to stop the punch and with a bit of forward motion it's ideally supposed to kind of meet the punch to take to power out of it and stop you from getting knocked back but's it's more of a transition technique when you're struggling in close range as if you use it from to far away the punch can just come over the top. I've seen bong sao used in mma to knock punches off to the side but that's not really its purpose. I would say pak sao it's better for knocking punches off the center line or even tan sao but bong sao is best for close distance or clinch work when there isn't really room to fully extend those straights.

    • @baronlacroix2980
      @baronlacroix2980 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      yeah ideally the same arm that is executing the bong sao to redirect the strike should immediately rotate at the elbow and hit the opponent in the head (with the forearm) which would be illegal in boxing. The other hand should grab or pull on the opponent's striking arm, but that's not feasible with boxing gloves. Alternatively the other arm can strike the opponent almost simultaneously with a straightline punch, but as you said, this is a close range technique, a sort of last resort option, and not how Silva is applying bong sao. As a pure wing tsun technique for knocking punches to the side at a distance, I find the inside pak sao + simultaneous straightline punch/vertical jab more directly transferrable to boxing. Outside pak + straightline punch could work too. Tan sao would be awkward with boxing gloves and in a boxing stance.

    • @ultimatecomeback9645
      @ultimatecomeback9645 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@baronlacroix2980 I mean, I was always taught to tan sao then lap sao because if you try and lap sao without using the tan sao then it's harder to successfully do because the tan sao locks the wrists a bit to give you an extra second to lap sao. but like you say, it's hard to do with boxing gloves. as for bong sao, yes it's very easy to go around the bong sao if it's to far away so it should be saved for close range. personally, I usually use it in the clinch to pin my sparring partner's arm to their chest and keep the force balanced so they have no choice but to quickly step back then when they do, catch them with the cross while they are stepping back. to be honest close combat is best for any boxer who knows wing chun because then they can properly use their trapping skills, especially if your opponent is on the ropes

    • @voyager667
      @voyager667 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      "bong sao is best for close distance or clinch work when there isn't really room to fully extend those straights.
      " that's what he did in this fight, just watched it. Bong for redirecting and lan for the frame.

    • @baronlacroix2980
      @baronlacroix2980 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@ultimatecomeback9645 as I recall, lap sao is a drill that involves bong sao, wu sao and straight punches. Not sure where the tan sao comes in, unless you mean the jut sao or whatever it's called, which turns the opponents arm into a bong sao. Maybe you're thinking of the chi sao drill.Never tried using bong sao in the clinch, might be worth a go. Yes, you're right, probably the most effective application of WT in boxing is close range. I think it was Roberto Duran who during in-fighting would use a downward forearm chop that looks like a WT-style gum sao to pry open his opponent's arms to create space for a simultaneous uppercut.

    • @umeshpatel3606
      @umeshpatel3606 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      usually with lap soa or double lap sau that will give you severe whip lash,very dangerous

  • @ttubebaby
    @ttubebaby 3 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    I think the vertical punch is definitely a thing in kung fu but I've also seen it used a lot in Karate. Weasle did a video about Naoya Inoue where he talked about this exact same thing.

  • @andrewknight6244
    @andrewknight6244 3 ปีที่แล้ว +29

    Mayweather used to do this to create space and throw the hook.

    • @michealtm
      @michealtm 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Exactly, from philly shell position. he would use it for the cross too, and rolls with it. Its where I took it from personally.

    • @mikelundun
      @mikelundun 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Hagler too!

  • @GZTakosh
    @GZTakosh 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I use that bong sau all the time to deflect counters as well.
    Vertical jab is great, also as a long vertical uppercut.

  • @brian9967
    @brian9967 3 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    At 5:20 that's definitely kung fu, at least some styles. I trained in choy li fut for some time where the vertical punch is done the same way, with that little extension at the end to add some extra oomph.

  • @dieseldave2273
    @dieseldave2273 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Only recently discovered this channel. Have watched a lot of your videos in the span of just a few days. Just wanted to say how much I appreciate what you're doing here. Your content hits three very important marks. First, its entertaining enough to keep your audience. Second, it's mostly directly to the point of your lesson. Third, it's correct information. Can't count how many times I've heard half witted ideas about fighting and self defense from people who obviously have never been in a real fight. I hope this is reaching those people the way it is me. Keep up the great work.

  • @underweightHater
    @underweightHater 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    the bong sau, straight vertical punch, and the low kick with the toes pointed out (which we started to see in MMA a while back) are all wing chun techniques. wing chun is a fairly narrow martial art, in that it mostly addresses close range stand up. so its not too useful in kicking range, and not too useful in grappling range. but that distance in the middle, its got some interesting things.

  • @TheBoneBrew
    @TheBoneBrew 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I always love your break downs there is one thing I would like to add to maybe make the bong sau more understandable. It is not a swing from the outside to the inside. It's actually like throwing a straight but instead you are are striking with the forearm.
    It is essentially a leverage block in boxing.
    The difference is the turn in the feet and hips and the positioning and striking of the forearm.
    Your use of practicality is always what I love about your content. Hopefully that might give some other commenters something to think about.

  • @Ninjacob00
    @Ninjacob00 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Here for the LEG MOUSCLES cameo

  • @dantepsy6972
    @dantepsy6972 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks for Icy Mike to point out the things Anderson Silva tried to apply in the match. The application of the bong sau/ sao 膀手 in Wing Chun is roughly match with Icy Mike words.
    However, there is a important point that is whatever Wing Chun moves people do , they should aims to take the centre of the opponent away.
    When applying the bong sao, feeling the force from your opponent is critical. When the force from your opponent is coming, Wing Chun let the force come or go to another direction rather then fight force to force. Therefore, Anderson Silva used the bong sao redirect the force to open the gap.
    Another interesting thing is Nat tried to resist the force from the one inches strike of Icy Mike. Mike could actually redirect Nat's force if he has a lot of experience in the sticky hand drill.
    Ultimately, the sticky hand drill 黐手 is not consider as a sparring, it is only a drill to strengthen the sense of tactile for sensing the force instead of an actual fight. By form the muscle memory Wing Chun can practitioners to react the force immediately without thinking.
    Hope you guys like this piece of information.

  • @armandm.2166
    @armandm.2166 3 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    He seems like a fun instructor to work with. His jokes make the tutorial more comical. I admit I laughed hard. Lol cool video. And yes that was what Anderson did. He used his elbows to make space.

  • @hanumananky
    @hanumananky 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I always enjoy your no nonsense humor and frank take on martial arts in your videos.
    Here's a quick rundown on how I understand the topic if you're interested.
    Kung fu as a pop culture term is a misunderstanding of the romanization "Gongfu" which translates to "effort", or rather, the practice of putting much effort and time into cultivating skill or self stewardship. It is not a martial art, or even an umbrella term for a family of martial arts, it is a term for expressing the level of commitment someone has for the mastery of their craft, whether that be martial arts, painting, or cooking. If someone is exceptional at boxing because they put much time and effort into boxing, then we can say, "they have good gongfu". You must practice gongfu in any martial art to be able to handle yourself in violent situations. There will always be pop culture mistakes on the meaning of things.
    Bong sau, it doesn't matter what you call it, only that you understand it, is simply a concept/technique from the martial art system, Wing Chun. Like all techniques, it is meant to convey an idea of what to do in a moment of need. You must put much effort into training and conditioning to be able to have any use for the ideas conveyed in techniques like bong sau. Staying level headed while experiencing violence requires more than just self defense classes and/or a couple years at a dojo or mma gym.
    Anderson Silva does borrow ideas from the Wing Chun system, however loosely he interprets them. However he does not do "Kung Fu", or rather, the amount of gongfu which would be standard in training for battlefield martial arts or wartime violence. Which is of course entirely unnecessary for the explicit purpose of sport combat. However the principle remains, those who train most, or have "good gongfu" will probably stand a better chance in the ring.
    Don't let the martial art pop culture appropriators give you an unclear idea of traditional martial arts.

  • @leafsky4331
    @leafsky4331 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Kung Fu all the way man. You were doing and pronouncing it right👍 you were using a kind of modified version of it, but since your hand was already up it was pretty much bong sau.

  • @dasc0yne
    @dasc0yne 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Mike's channel has just the right balance of funny BS and solid advice. This channel never disappoints.

  • @arshiadehghan2187
    @arshiadehghan2187 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    That looks like Lenny sly’s hand deflation:”okunagashi “.

    • @jaketheasianguy3307
      @jaketheasianguy3307 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Uke nagashi
      It's a sword parry technique that Lenny turned into empty hand parry

    • @jamesfrankiewicz5768
      @jamesfrankiewicz5768 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jaketheasianguy3307 And it approximately translates to "receive [by] flowing".

    • @arshiadehghan2187
      @arshiadehghan2187 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jaketheasianguy3307 Lenny didn’t Steven Segal did

    • @jaketheasianguy3307
      @jaketheasianguy3307 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@arshiadehghan2187 Lenny said he invented it. Segal made the kiriage suriage combination

  • @Tespri
    @Tespri 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Big boy moment was the best part of the video. So wholesome.

  • @forjanatalense
    @forjanatalense 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Anderson Silva earned back the MMA comunity respect. No doubt he the GOAT

  • @chopsueykungfu
    @chopsueykungfu 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Bong Sau is a Wing Chun defensive move, never used as a strike. The vertical punch is how all Wing Chun practitioners punch, we never use a horizontal punch. The vertical punch was very popular in Boxing, probably from the bare knuckle days, and is described by Jack Dempsey as the only way to punch in his book 'Championship Boxing'.

  • @OnyxXThePunch
    @OnyxXThePunch 3 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Always threw my my jabs vertical it's the historical method and has been done way longer than the modern diagonal way

    • @MikesDadvice
      @MikesDadvice 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I was taught that turning the punch was actually taught to keeps kids from accidentally causing greater injuries to each other...I have also learned, through experience, that a slight turn of your punch to match the anatomical portion of the body you are punching can make a huge difference on the effect of the punch

    • @OnyxXThePunch
      @OnyxXThePunch 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MikesDadvice only time I really say you should do a diagonal punch if it's a hook and you're planning on throwing a corkscrew punch which honestly can absolutely shred someone's skin bare knuckle .

  • @xcaluhbration
    @xcaluhbration 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Quickly becoming one of my favorite channels 👌🏾
    Love the personality, knowledge and analysis that was brought to us today.

  • @jamesrowlands1943
    @jamesrowlands1943 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Well, at least he didn't use Aikido, or we would never hear the end of it...

  • @billmurray7676
    @billmurray7676 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Yes, that is bong sao indeed, and it's actually the primary use for this technique the first time you showed it, and then the second application you showed is straight up yi bong or lan sao from Cham kyo form where you learn to connect it with your body to generate power. Silva (and other fighters like him rediscovering Wing Chun) are really sending a lot of so-called Wing Chun guys back to school, it's awesome to see.

  • @hankhoover8666
    @hankhoover8666 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Idk if this stuff counts as Kung Fu but i like it and I'll be trying out some of these tricks in sparring.

    • @arbogast4950
      @arbogast4950 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      I'm a Kung Fu dork and yes, we absolutely do these things. If only we all sparred and quit the gymnastics.

  • @dropkickcorpse
    @dropkickcorpse 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    6:01 (Gasp!) Icy Mike's legendary Tetsuzanko!
    - Shaw Brothers Kung Fu Abbot

  • @eintracht691
    @eintracht691 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    The first one looks totally like Bong Sau, but the second is a technique called "Boop on the Snoot". Yea... I don't know shit about kung fu

    • @hard2hurt
      @hard2hurt  3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Snoot-boopin is my favorite

    • @Sophisticlesenergy
      @Sophisticlesenergy 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank god chael gave the W to boop snoots, he may not have survived to box if he didnt

  • @MMarbleroller
    @MMarbleroller 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Everything you mentioned is something I recognize from kung fu forms I have learned. Your interpretation of the moves was correct as well.

  • @daniel-zh9nj6yn6y
    @daniel-zh9nj6yn6y 3 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    There's a movie where Jackie Chan uses bong water, for extra energy :)

  • @wonphi
    @wonphi 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    That's correct, Bong Sow or "Tie hands" is a technique from Wing Chun that acts as a parry to the limbs, but can also be used to maneuver the opponent away and change angles to close in for trapping and chain punches. The vertical fist you mentioned is a basic kung fu punch, the long reaching version of it can be known as a "cannon fist" - because the momentum of the body going forward follows the punch as well, which does split the guard, but gives additional reach as you can protract your scapula and turn your waist and shoulder into the punch as well, with the additional benefit of moving the head slightly out of centre line when the waist is turned - these are its advantages over the turning or horizontal fist. Lastly, the body frame he used to push Chavez Jr using a sturdy wide leg stance is the high horse stance which is a kung fu basic stance. There are also other stances and a low horse stance variant (the low horse stance isn't actually for practical fighting, but to train the leg endurance and isometric strength to help with the "grounding" sensation.

  • @lexriel1286
    @lexriel1286 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I've always referred to techniques like that as in the wheelhouse of the stone wall/philly shell.
    Some think of those styles as only being behind the shoulder but really you use your whole arm as defense and something to manipulate your opponent.
    James Tony uses a lot of these techniques.
    Or rather he used to.

    • @stevenramirez1179
      @stevenramirez1179 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      thank you!!!!!! I guess "martial artists" just don't watch boxing lol

    • @ungabunga2472
      @ungabunga2472 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I don’t think people realize how much overlap there is within disciplines

  • @shanedjoy8954
    @shanedjoy8954 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    He, Silva, also did a thing called "Frame the picture" from 52Blocks, a feint kinda thing with the hands, like a Chi Sao thing.
    All the things you said are spot on. The extended punch thing you were doing is like the Phoenix Eye Punch.
    Cus D'Amato used to get his fighters to throw jabs with their thumb down, rotating the arm rolls the shoulder to protect the head. See lots of it in Tyson training videos.
    One of my Wing Chun/JKD instructors, bare-handed, would demonstrate Palm Up punches to the cheek/eye socket.

  • @sas2dj
    @sas2dj 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    A Bong Sau is a forward motion, not sideways
    After contact it deflects

  • @Chinesehero
    @Chinesehero 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I like your sound effects for hitting. The kung fu shapes are however YOU can use them realistically...Thanks for sharing!

  • @joelancon7231
    @joelancon7231 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Haven't watched it, but I know it's a good vid cause it's a hard2hurt vid.

  • @Ed7501
    @Ed7501 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I took Wing Chun for about 6 months when I was a teenager, and bong sau is one of the only things I kept in my arsenal.

    • @combatsportlover6919
      @combatsportlover6919 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Not the Vertical punch?

    • @jaketheasianguy3307
      @jaketheasianguy3307 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I think the lap sao and pak sao is pretty useful too, especially on the ground when you are trying to peel the other guy's hand off his face when you're punching him

  • @13LesTadO13
    @13LesTadO13 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Yes, Anderson Silva did practice wing Chun so definitely.

  • @shankshernandez2348
    @shankshernandez2348 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    So hard2hurt I want to say thank you one last time because you inspired many people to learn martial arts and that's why I want to tell you that after I get my things in order from moving to another house I'm going to start training to become a boxer first then when I get the hang of it second kickboxer and last MMA fighter with these martial arts fighting styles which are like I said the best of all time and use them practice more on UFC MMA Sanda muay Thai savate Dutch kickboxing American kickboxing combat sambo BJJ boxing

  • @evanshively1294
    @evanshively1294 3 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    There’s a few times he used wing chun in his UFC career as well. When he gets his back to the cage you can see it well.

    • @jansettler4828
      @jansettler4828 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Keep telling that to yourself

    • @evanshively1294
      @evanshively1294 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@jansettler4828 It’s an objective truth? He’s literally even said he uses wing chun. I’m not even a practitioner of any Kung Fu styles. Wtf

    • @jansettler4828
      @jansettler4828 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@evanshively1294 1. No he hasn't. 2. Even if he had, it wouldn't matter since he also said Steven Seagal taught him the front kick.
      There is 0 WC in Silva. Because he never trained it. He trained MT, BJJ, Wrestling, TKD, Capoeira. He did not train WC. Stop deluding yourself.

    • @evanshively1294
      @evanshively1294 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@jansettler4828 There are literally videos of him training on wooden dummies as well as training with Chi Sao and Pak Sao..... You could just look it up instead of being so passionately wrong.

    • @jansettler4828
      @jansettler4828 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@evanshively1294 So because he once poses for the cam using some martial arts training tool, something which like every MMA fighter does for PR, means he trained in WC? Do you also think Zhang Weili uses Tai Chi in her fights because she did some forms on the promo tapes?
      Anderson Striking in MMA is standard MT and Boxing/Kickboxing, nothing else. Only because you see something that is in some barely related way part of WC doesn't mean they use it, when it is explained much better and less mental gymnastics-y with it also being part of the things he actually trained and competed in.

  • @JEM-fo6rs
    @JEM-fo6rs 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Ah man good eye! Yes on all techniques mentioned. Bong sao is classic WC move no matter what lineage. It’s a great deflection technique, and can be used with Philly shell. Anderson has trained a bit WC/JKD and I believe there’s videos of him working on the dummy. ( Tony Ferguson as well)
    However I’m not sure how much he knows? The vertical fist( aka Chung chuie, sun fist) is definitely Kung Fu and WC classic punch. Slightly difference in approach from school to school though. Nice to see someone out the “Kung Fuie” 😆community recognize the techniques and it’s effectiveness in real time.

  • @daniel-zh9nj6yn6y
    @daniel-zh9nj6yn6y 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    According to a Wing Chun youtuber, one problem among them is that Sifus are always afraid one of their advanced students will also become a teacher, so they keep some techniques secret.

    • @jaketheasianguy3307
      @jaketheasianguy3307 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Keeping technique secret is a stupid thing alot of martial art system around the world still doing.
      It's understandable if you want to keep a secret from outsider if you're making money or don't want people to hurt themselve. But keeping from your own student is pure stupidity

  • @pgomespwr95
    @pgomespwr95 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Anderson Silva has got to be a reference for every martial artist, it's insane.

  • @philipjabalaia4551
    @philipjabalaia4551 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    In my lineage bong Sao is like an umbrella term for all forearm techniques, so yeah that's a bong Sao

    • @philipjabalaia4551
      @philipjabalaia4551 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I also do the vertical jabb all the time at my kickboxning gym, in my lineage it's called yatche choi, I like when you post with the front hand, and power trough with the rear vertical strike.

  • @sunnysideupinhere2930
    @sunnysideupinhere2930 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wing Chun/Boxing practitioner here Id say your understanding of Bong Sau is very onpoint accurate. it is exactly how we were taught to utilize the elbow to redirect or change up, even throwing them up to block in philly shell. But the thing is I always try not to get too trapped inside the box of that, so boxing helps me a lot for that purpose. Gotta know how to properly strike before all that flowery shit whatsoever, otherwise there is no way to make wing chun work and all that kung fu work in a realistic situation

  • @great4061
    @great4061 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Elbow blocks are either considered secret high level blocking or kung fu, even the shoulder roll is in kung fu but was probably developed in boxing in a different way

    • @Asterion608
      @Asterion608 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Secret high level? Their bar must be set really low if something as simple as an elbow block is "secret high level".

    • @great4061
      @great4061 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Asterion608 Its not about execution its about application, you could probably do it but you can't use it the way high level people can

  • @jamesfrankiewicz5768
    @jamesfrankiewicz5768 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Bong Sau is just Cantonese for "Wing Hand/Arm". That shape of the arm is Bong Sau, but it can be used numerous ways; different example: it can make a great block vs. low strikes (kicks, gut punches), but for that you want to have your palm facing the ground and your hand rotated so that your fingers nearly point back to you. It tightens the forearm muscles using twist instead of flexion, so it's rock solid, but doesn't slow your next movement. There is also a small amount of give at the elbow (without so much the strike blasts through), so you get some shock absorption, too. (Hung Gar method in my description.)

  • @santiagobracho5964
    @santiagobracho5964 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Gene Fullmer, Jack Dempsey and Archie Moore have been doing all these moves since the 1920s.

  • @mouaragon2774
    @mouaragon2774 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    yeah that vertical punch we use it a lot in Choy Lay Fut and I never thought how useful it could turn

  • @beepboopbleep3695
    @beepboopbleep3695 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    As a kid that used to rent out every kung fu movie at blockbuster im down with the energy of this video

  • @edvonschleck6170
    @edvonschleck6170 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Silva did Jeet Kune Do he did this a hole lot more after he trained with Dan Inosanto.

  • @joshuabernardo4305
    @joshuabernardo4305 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great concepts. They can be further enhanced. Once you pass through the guard with a vertical jab, you can:
    1) turn the forearm at the last second to add additional torque to the strike (Ricardo Lopez) and further open the guard for successive strikes
    2) pass the guard with the vertical jab, and pull down the opponents guard to create an opening for the rear hand [Roberto Duran, Foreman(?)]

  • @justingilead2189
    @justingilead2189 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Dude, that’s bong sau. The second time you did it to parry the jab it was even done appropriately to the outside gate. It’s not supposed to be a block as we traditionally understand it. It’s a transitional technique. In boxing the philly shell position lends itself quite well to its execution.

  • @Canal_Marte
    @Canal_Marte 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Yes, you are right, that's a kung fu wing chun movement, and your explanation of how does it work is right

  • @johngr1747
    @johngr1747 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Fun fact: The Fireman's Carry seen in Wrestling and Judo was used by the Chinese in the Long Fist-related styles.

    • @ambulocetusnatans
      @ambulocetusnatans 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I think I know which move you are talking about. Many of the moves that people think are flashy strikes or fancy kicks are really throws or sweeps. Some teachers forgot or never learned the real meaning, so they say it's a fancy punch or something.

  • @leonid4468
    @leonid4468 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I LOVE mixing in the vertical jab, kinda like the jeet kun do lead punch. That extra snap at the end comes from (at least for me) thrusting your ribs then hips in the same plane upward and the lower two knuckles upward at the same time. Basically the same thing you would do with an actual one-inch punch.

  • @jeremykiahsobyk102
    @jeremykiahsobyk102 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    It looked more like Pun Ch'phace to me.

    • @letsgojake.4078
      @letsgojake.4078 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I have fallen victim to this technique several times.

  • @digitalnomad5643
    @digitalnomad5643 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good observation with the punch using a vertical fist! In my limited knowledge of Kung Fu, the technique appears to be from Wing Chun and, the name for it - 日字沖拳 (i.e. ri zi chong quan). So is "Bong Sau" or 膀手, the elbow blocking technique. Just cut and paste the characters in TH-cam and it is all there. Wing Chun was what Bruce Lee trained in initially before moving on to develop Jeet kune Do. Despite Wing Chun techniques finding limited application in the MMA arena, this video came as a fresh breath of air, shedding light on new application of old techniques.

  • @danielsales4902
    @danielsales4902 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I think manny uses the vertical jabs too

  • @quinceysteward3670
    @quinceysteward3670 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    For a man who's only taken Kung Fu lessons I see Mike you have pretty good Wing Chun moves

  • @itsmichaelboy
    @itsmichaelboy 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Never this early on anything

  • @stevenramirez1179
    @stevenramirez1179 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    mayweathers now officially a kung fu guy along with EVERYONE in boxing that uses a Philly shell

    • @hayate503
      @hayate503 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      No

    • @jaketheasianguy3307
      @jaketheasianguy3307 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Normal people around the world have 2 legs and 2 arms, no technique is exclusive so same ideas came from 2 different systems that have never met each other is perfectly normal.

  • @WhoDaF0ok1sThatGuy
    @WhoDaF0ok1sThatGuy 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    That’s what happens when a spoon fed fighter who doesn’t even work hard faces someone who doesn’t box but has determination. Boxing always wins in HAND to HAND combat.

    • @jaketheasianguy3307
      @jaketheasianguy3307 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Boxing always win in "a super restricted must stand face to face no kicks and takedown allowed" combat

    • @WhoDaF0ok1sThatGuy
      @WhoDaF0ok1sThatGuy 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jaketheasianguy3307 that’s why I capitalized hand. It’s because mma fighters are more versatile

  • @TheloniousNewton
    @TheloniousNewton 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    That's part of the offensive portions of Philly Shell offense in boxing. Watch a young James Toney with his active philly shell offense/defense. It is fun seeing the emergence of similar techniques from separate martial disciplines...

  • @nigelcox-hagan6820
    @nigelcox-hagan6820 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Didn’t Jack Dempsey use a vertical jab? I think you’ll find some of the techniques reviewed in this video show up in old school boxing and karate as well as Kung Fu.

    • @nysurdatu5012
      @nysurdatu5012 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes. I read Dempseys book years ago . From what I remember he taught the vertical jab because it was a more flush hitting powerful punch when used with the falling step . He said your jab should really be a power punch . That’s if I remember correctly

    • @nigelcox-hagan6820
      @nigelcox-hagan6820 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@nysurdatu5012 This is what I remember also, although I learned this from articles and videos that excerpted Dempsey’s book and not the book itself. It’s been compared to a Wing Chun punch (in fact one Wing Chun instructor on TH-cam uses footage of Dempsey in his video intro). Other Chinese martial arts like Hsing I have vertical punches as part of their arsenal, but Wing Chun does emphasize it (from what I’ve observed, I’ve never practiced the art).

  • @JKDVIPER
    @JKDVIPER 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    3:45 you’re so smart. That’s why I stop by. You’re 100 percent correct. In WING CHUN and JKD we use VERTICAL FIST but it’s not our only punch... it is however our main interception punch. The BONG SAO gets used with a helping hand. If you watch some GARY LAM BONG SAO here on TH-cam you’ll be happy. Very good!

  • @Petri314
    @Petri314 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I Was taught the same thing in Gung-Fu and I use it as you show in the intro.

  • @the_boxing_princess9396
    @the_boxing_princess9396 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I actually learned that in olympic boxing classes. Except for the elbow thing.. But when it’s done by Silva, it looks way better than when I do it ;)

  • @AlphaZao
    @AlphaZao 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Just wanna give a praise to icy mike for all your hard work on these videos 💪🏾

    • @hard2hurt
      @hard2hurt  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I try

    • @AlphaZao
      @AlphaZao 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@hard2hurt definitely shows lol. I’m on a journey myself to the tippy top of mma and your style of teaching makes my severe adult adhd nonexistent ❄️🎤 💪🏾 I watch and drill immediately lol thx again

    • @AlphaZao
      @AlphaZao 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Sensei if you would critique my form I’d
      Appreciate

    • @AlphaZao
      @AlphaZao 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      It’s on my vids as a short

  • @tommysoderholm8305
    @tommysoderholm8305 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    As a Wing Chun practitioner I approve these bong saos, vertical jabs and bar arms.

  • @MikesDadvice
    @MikesDadvice 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The vertical jab and the style you used for the extra umph on the end of the jab, may also be KungFu, but they are techniques commonly taught in old styles of Kenpo, like Goju Ryu, Ishin Ryu, Ryu Kyu, etc. It is highly effective, especially when you learn the timing of the hips, legs, and feet with the punch.

  • @WhoDaF0ok1sThatGuy
    @WhoDaF0ok1sThatGuy 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It was more so Philly shell. The vertical jab is also something for boxing.

  • @JKDVIPER
    @JKDVIPER 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Bong sao is a transitional movement. It’s not a square block. No choice we use it that way. But only quickly. The key to wing chun is using a helping hand and a fencing hand. Using your front hand action to the Max allows you a free helping hand to do more with. Bong is good to use and go underneath with an eye jab (street defense )

  • @jeetkuneduckstudios3189
    @jeetkuneduckstudios3189 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    That vertical jab is much like the straight lead from Jeet Kune Do. A mix of Wing Chun, bare knuckle boxing, and fencing.

  • @frisc0strangler207
    @frisc0strangler207 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The ending was awesome!

  • @jeet1do
    @jeet1do 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wing Chun Definitely, mixes very well with boxing.Great showcase from Silva of the 2 arts combined. 👊🙏

  • @OgeXam
    @OgeXam 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The part you were talking about at around 5:13 where he put more into the punch I believe is actually the application of the one inch punch. Putting your whole body into an explosion in a short distance. So he jabbed till almost there then 'exploded' the last inch.