Cloud not being in the wreckage in Zack's timeline makes total sense because Cloud is with Zack when the whisper tornado happened, he's the one Zack was protecting. He is almost certainly alive and well in Zacks timeline.
Yeah, honestly after seeing this, and factoring in the scene from Intermission, I'm thinking the Zack lives timeline was in existance for longer than most realize. The common theory is that the timeline came into existance because of us destroying the Whispers, but now I'm thinking Sephiroth created this timeline before Remake even started, and changed how events unfolded in that timeline so that Zack would arrive at Midgar significantly later than he was supposed to. This would make it so that, without Cloud's help, the party would ultimately fail in their objectives and be killed off, or at least captured and taken out of the picture. Destroying the Whispers didn't create the timeline. It just made sure that the changes Sephiroth made to the timeline were able to stick.
@DevilHunter1994 But without Cloud's help they would have never gotten that far. If he's not at Sector 5 to fall and meet Aerith and bring her to Wall Market, how does she meet Tifa? And Barret? Not to mention all the other times Cloud saved their asses. What I think is those bodies are the tattooed Sephiroth clones in the image of the party to mess with them, especially Cloud. Who's dead? Who's alive? Who's actually Jenova in disguise? That's why there is so much emphasis on them in this trailer. Why Rufus is talking about them, and why Sephiroth is talking about Jenova's ability to do shape-shifting. It's all connected.
Anyone who says Yuffie's reaction with Cloud is just her being motion-sick are blatantly ignoring the fact that she just recently experienced a nightmare-- Sonon being stabbed to death by Nero who had a lot of purple aura around him. She is experiencing PTSD. Not unlike Cloud who has PTSD over seeing burning buildings.
Unfortunately Max has a blind spot with Yuffie. He hasn't been fully sold yet but her story is looking very strong with all the breadcrumbs they've laid out so far.
Or, hes not trying to spoil all the stuff that happened in integrade that also has tie ins to other ff7 extended content that also spoil a lot of main game ff7 original story.
The best experience I have had in gaming during my adult years was playing FF7R. I'd play a chapter or two and at night watch Max play up to where I left off. I remember getting a PS3 thinking how awesome FF7 would be on it, was waiting on this moment for years. Enjoying it solo then watching Max and chat react and enjoy this game we are so nostalgic for was peak entertainment.
Max is the main man I wait for, to see trailer reactions for FF7 especially to hear about any information and just talking about FF in general. Could listen to this guy talk about his favourite game forever and never get old. FF7 rebirth is going to be so massive and amazing. 💫
It's also possible that because Tifa isn't gonna be around, Cloud might not snap out of his mako sickness and is just gonna stay a vegetable in Zack's timeline, or he may also end up becoming just one of Sephiroth's "clones"(the guys with the cloaks), and wander the place just muttering "reunion".
Well Cloud wake up for his lethargy state literally because Zack dies in front of him, so Zack staying alive doesn't give him the shock he needed to wake up.
@@titi3736 Cloud actually doesn't snap out of it till Tifa notices him in Midgar sitting down on the floor and talked to him, he was basically a zombie when he walked into Midgar. Zack's death only added trauma to what Cloud was already going through.
@@Arashi257 you're right I forgot about that, but still Zack's death change his state from complete vegetable to walking zombie so it did something to him. But yeah true he actually was still in zombie mode. Well if zack doesn't die + he doesn't meet tifa then that double explains why he would still be a zombie.
Loved seeing how happy he was to be up on that stage he absolutely deserved it. Max has done so much for the series and community much respect happy for him
One thing max seems to be missing is that sephiroth isn't just messing with cloud. He is obviously doing that but it has a deeper meaning in that if sephiroth in remake really has come from the og timeline, he is intentionally trying to destroy cloud and tifas bond by trying to frame tifa as jenova because tifa is the only one has the key to clouds true self.
@@JonCrowVO especially in the first trailer for rebirth the main dialogue was cloud referencing how he saw tifa lying almost dead after sephiroths attack and tifa sounding incredulous at the assumption that she died and is an imposter. It seems like cloud and tifas relationship for rebirth are the big focus so it can come full circle with greater impact in the third game through the lifestream segment if they are following the original cycle or events or something similar
That's a great observation in terms of why Sephiroth would do that, but it's still ultimately about Cloud isn't it. Sephiroth doesn't directly care about Tifa - he's merely using her to mess with Cloud, but as I say, really cool observation 👌 Sephiroth's thought it through.
I love it when we get a full breakdown of new FF7 Rebirth content from Max. There's the sense of rush I get from just the FF7 content itself, and then also from seeing a huge video from Max about all the theories that can be talked about. We really are in a golden age for FF7.
Umm what golden age for ff 7? lmao did you even play Remake? The most arrogant person ever to grace the video game development scene tetsuya freakin nomura completely ruined the story with his shitty constant meta-textual ideas, this is going to turn into the star wars sequel trilogy come back here after rebirth and prove me wrong.
I disagree. You’re in the golden age for the compilation of FF7, because this is the final entry of the compilation and we know this because it also retcons the original games narrative and themes. I’m really glad people like this but I personally can’t enjoy a narrative that undermines the original story I love so much and ignited my passion for excellent storytelling. Max touches upon the “unreliable narrator” writing device which was executed to perfection in the original but now becomes useless in this series because of the changes. That being said, I’ll still play the game because the combat and boss fights are 10/10. 😊
@@ItsSVO A retcon? Isn't this better labeled as a "sequel" rather than a retcon? Its like a time travel story. Without the original, the altered timeline would have no context nor sense.
@@StriderVM It’s a sequel to advent children but sequels can still be retcons of the works that came before. The compilation massively retconned and undermined the original game’s story and characters which is why me and many other FF7 fans don’t care about the compilation and consider FF7 as a standalone story as it was never planned to be anything else until SE wanted to print more money. The altered timeline is a good example because it directly contradicts the original themes by Inserting fate and destiny which was never a part of FF7. That’s why It doesn’t make any sense for it to exist even with the context. I don’t think i ever heard a single person ask the question “I really want to know what would happen if Zack had survived” and yet people did ask that, I have to ask why? What would happen is you’d have a completely new and unrelated story with the same characters. It’s like me wanting a remake of Game of thrones where Jon defeats the embodiment of fate purely so we can have an alternative timeline where Ned stark survives. That in essence would be me just wanting a completely different story with the same characters which I don’t and would never because I’m a fan of the game of thrones story not a story that George could’ve but didn’t write. This is why I don’t really understand people who want and enjoy this because it has nothing at all to do with the story you supposedly love and is ultimately just officially licensed fan fiction. I don’t have an issue with people who do like it, I just don’t understand why they would. I like stories, I don’t care about characters from a story I love taking part in completely new ones.
@@ItsSVO The point of ff7 remake was defying destiny but it still had the OG themes and messages that were present in the midgar section. Stories can have more than one theme that don’t contradict each other. A lot of people like this direction because they're able to experience this world in a new light. I think people are getting tired of these constant remakes being pumped out so they're beginning to appreciate the extra effort the ff7 remakes display. It's fine if you're not into the new direction and even I'm not 100% on the changes. My friend said he just wanted a simple remake and I get that. As for me, FF7 OG is so good that I'm fine with a new direction and I got pc mods and Ever Crisis if I ever crave a simple remaster with the same story.
Aerith changing the portal color from dark to light at the end of Remake is something I haven't heard talked about a lot, maybe it has but I didn't hear it. I feel like that's one of the most literal evidence of the two timelines the characters are on. Unless it's something different, but I feel like that was Sephiroth baiting them into a timeline, but Aerith said no.
If Zach is getting his own timeline (which I do think is what we’re seeing) it’d be a great way to get Biggs/Wedge/Jessie back in the story. Alternate Dyne would be interesting too.
I’m really hoping they go the “Character Switch” route with Zack’s timeline. Sonon could take Yuffie’s place along with other potential replacements. Dyne as Barret’s sub, Jesse as Tifa’s sub. The list goes on….
@@johnnysalery7383 I feel like if anyone from Zack’s timeline would replace Yuffie from a gameplay perspective, it would be Cissnei. We already know she uses a throwing star after all. Could be a great way to flesh out her character from crisis core. Her story was left very open ended if I remember correctly.
sephiroth is trying to mess with cloud and make him think that tifa is not real, that jenova took her shape since she can become in the shape of those you love sephiroth gains a lot from messing with cloud, since if he can drive cloud to maybe hurt tifa sephiroth can benefit a lot, tifa was essential in saving cloud's mind, she is the one who helped cloud's regain his true self in the lifestream, this is pretty similar to og ff7 but they might expand on that it's also confirmed in the japanese version that sephiroth was talking about tifa since he says in that version "i killed tifa"
I think Rebirth will end at the Northern Crater. It's a ton of ground to cover, but it makes a lot of sense. It would end with Sephiroth's "Rebirth" when Cloud hands him the black materia.
Regarding the final lines about Tifa being dead, I feel like this is FF7R's answer to how Sephiroth will control Cloud at points. Instead of an unexplained mind-control, Seph actually gets into his head and maybe forces visions (like Nibelheim burning in the middle of Midgar), getting him to attack or defend himself from an illusory threat. And considering what you said about making everyone unreliable, maybe trying to trick the player at points as well.
That's the thing I love about listening to Max, he doesn't rush a breakdown right out the gate like a lot of FF content creators. He lets it stew a bit and a lot of his predictions are reasonable conclusions one could draw on if they take time to look at the trailer. Not flinging ideas that have zero basis. The thing that got me most worried about the trailer was about Tifa's fate. I played the OG FF7, I should know what happens but this trailer is screwing with me. Leave to Max to bring me back down to reality 😄
10:11 yeah people for some reason don't understand that a branch of time has changed and there's 2 time lines All the while seeing Zack and Sephiroth running around 😅 and the stamp bag is different. But I enjoy stories like this they don't explain everything it's fun to watch a old story unfold in a new way one of the most ambitious story telling ever. And Max does a AMAZING job of breaking it down and explaining it.
I know initially people were disappointed that FF7R took a long time to finally come out, but in all honesty. I actually think that somehow the universe knew it was the right time. With all of the skills and experience gained from developing previous titles, we’re able to put all of that together with the advancements in technology in order to create such an amazing game. Really looking forward to the next installment of FF7R.
I agree. And I'm not bothered by Rebirth coming out next year either. Devs and creators should take all the time they need to develop the best titles they can. We all know what rushed dev cycles end up like, and I do not want that for my favourite video game ever.
Square Enix actually outsourced a lot of the work on FFVII R to another developer, before scrapping all of that and bringing it back in-house when the work of that developer turned out to be subpar, about three years worth of work scrapped. They should have never outsourced in the first place, though as far as I know, Remake and Rebirth are the same teams with a few changes.
So I'm still on the multiple timelines train, but there is an interpretation of the one timeline theory that I found interesting. When the party exited the singularly, they might have exited into Zack's timeline and the versions of themselves that SHOULD have been in that timeline were the ones who we saw on that news broadcast. It seems PLAUSIBLE, but I'm not sure if it's likely. I think that the dead/injured members of Avalanche could either be what happened to those characters in Zack's timeline, or they could have been a SHINRA deep-fake (because they control everything in Midgar, even the News) in the Remake timeline so that the company can save face. Better that the public believes the terrorists that destroyed reactors and assassinated the president were killed during their escape attempt than that they got away, which would make SHINRA look incompetent and shake public confidence in their abilities. On an unrelated note, I'm quite certain that 21:00 is not the Cave of the Gi. The color palette isn't right (it was an ominous red, brown and green in the OG) and I don't think you'd see metal guard-railing and electric lighting there in the Remake.
Wait, so you mean it would essentially be two timelines in one? Our protagonists would then have two versions of themselves, with one being (probably) dead but Zack still alive? Man I didn't think of that, that would be very interesting. The only thing I found puzzling though is that while Zack, Biggs and Jessie all were shown to be alive AFTER the last encounter with the specters, wasn't Wedge already shown to be alive when he shouldn't have been BEFORE that?
@Soyl it's been a while, so I might be mistaken, but last time we see Wedge in Remake is Shinra HQ and I believe the Whispers basically throw him out of the building? I remember something like that anyway?
When I first saw the Shinra news I thought that it was all faked to make it look like Avalanche had been taken out. But then I had to remember all the timeline shenanigans so now I'm not sure on anything.
I’ve been waiting for Max’s breakdown. Didn’t disappoint! Laughing at “Cloud has become This Guy Are Sick.” 🤣 I’m looking forward to all the FF7R2 vids from the Dood in the coming months!!
So Max did not really talk about the UI much but there was something I noticed that NO one has mentioned in these breakdowns. In certain clips of combat there is a secpnd limit break bar to the right of the main limit bar. This could be confirming level 2 limit breaks. Its also possible that the 5 bars under the ATB bar are built up everytile you spend an ATB and once full you can use a synergy attack, or dual tech as people call it.
2:32 Simmons is based first off, and second hearing max just mention Xenoblade makes me so happy. Also the world being designed like Xenoblade makes so much sense. Even if not as expansive as the areas in those games but similar to that is how I imagine it.
Xenoblade really should be the standard for modern 3D JRPG maps. Big, but not truly "open", giving the player a feeling of exploration and discovery while gently guiding them on a linear path.
@@TheWorstPartyMember100% agreed. Of course it’ll all depend what a game’s design language calls for, but for open maps like this for instance, the Xenoblade games are a great template for that. Those games are so good at making the worlds feel alive and tangible (within the realms those games are designed for)!
I've been waiting for this. Finally got the Max breakdown. I definitely think 2 timelines makes more sense than one. Sephiroth and Aerith were both hardcore hinting that they already know what happened in the OG timeline. In fact, now I am thinking there are 3 timelines.
The 5 dashes in the ATB bar I believe is the dual tech. If you look throughout the trailer during the combat, every time you see the combo moves, whoever is a part of the combo moves. All of those dashes are empty. It’s especially telling in the triple attack with Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa. So my guess is, that you have to use all of those 5 dashes for at least 2 characters to do all of these attacks that we saw in the trailer.
Felt the same what's intriguing is how do we actually refill it i can think of 3 scenarios *one* is it refills itself separately from ATB *two* we refill it by doing spesificic actions (killing enemies attacking dodging blocking using ATB abilities these are all options) but a spesificic one would be it refilling faster by doing each of those things when we have the ATB bar full *three* instead of what two proposes it refills using just one of the aforementioned methods instead of all of them either way seems great i was already in love with FF7-RE combat system but it's about to get even better with the "Dual Techs" and new combat stances and the upgraded ones too (hopefully the bosses also maintain and even improved quality since i loved thise games
Yay, cutscene attacks. I like being in control of the action. Reminds me of attraction ride attacks from kingdom hearts, big flashy dumb op attacks that just play out like a cutscene and make you invincible. Hope it's more tame, I don't wanna see cutscene attacks more than 5 times total, after that it's tedious and annoying
I'm with Max on his theory about the hooded figure @31:20 in this video. Like him, my prediction is that this is going to be in Zack's timeline. Cloud fully loses his mind and falls under Sephiroth's control. After all, we've got that tease at the start of the trailer that suggests the trade off for Zack surviving was the rest of the party dying. The thing that ultimately snapped Cloud out of his semi-comatose state in the original timeline was Zack dying. Zack's survival in the alternate timeline apparently had a MASSIVE impact on EVERYONE! -Cloud never snaps out of his comatose state (which granted DOES lead to his brain and memories getting scrambled in the original timeline) -Cloud is likely far more susceptible to Sephiroth's control -The events of FF7 as we know it still somehow occur for Tifa and the rest of the party -Everyone dies during the highway escape when they get caught up in the tornado created by the singularity at the end of Remake The only REAL question mark in all of this is Zack. One would assume that in an altered timeline where he survived, he could have very easily wound up in Cloud's place, especially if Tifa recognized him from the Nibelheim Incident. It's honestly not hard to imagine that sequence of events. However, his arrival in Midgar in the teaser at the end of Intergrade suggests that he's showing up AFTER the teaser at the start of the Rebirth trailer that shows everyone dead. Now, I could assume his battle with the Shinra troops might have ended with him laid out for a few weeks, but for the sake of knowing what we're dealing with, here's how things originally go down: The original timeline of events has Zack dying at the end of September. No exact date is given on the timeline, but it is nearly five years to the day after the events in Nibelheim. Cloud then wanders aimlessly with his memories becoming a jumbled mess of his own and Zack's before Tifa finds him in November. The events of FF7 then begin on December the 9th. Reactor 1 is blown up that night, the events of Reactor 5 occur the next morning, and the sector plate falls the evening of the 10th. The raid on the Shinra building happens the night of the 11th, and the highway escape happens in the early morning hours of the 12th. As I said, it's easy enough to imagine Zack replacing Cloud in an alternate timeline, but I'm at a loss as to how long he might have potentially been out of commission. One would think that even if he couldn't physically get to Aerith, he'd have at least sent word that he was finally back. However, his arrival at the church at the end of Intergrade suggests that he might have been recovering the entire time and that he didn't show up there until AFTER the events of December 12th. Zack's Last Stand at the end of Crisis Core is one of the few moments in gaming where gameplay and story segregation is clearly not happening. No matter how well you play that moment, you're eventually going to run out of resources and a ton of smaller wounds are going to eventually wear Zack down to the point where he is fatally shot. Despite actually surviving in the alternate timeline, I just can't see Zack having been laid out for over two months, and even if he was, I just cannot see him NOT attempting to reach out to Aerith before this altered chain of events really starts to get into motion. Needless to say, I'm very curious as to how these alternate timeline events are going to play out in Rebirth.
You bring a lot of good points and I stand by you. I'm not usually into the Zack theory of things, but I can see him going on a journey to save Cloud in the Northern Crater... WHICH would just add to my suspicion that this is where Rebirth will end. In fact, I wonder if we won't get some sort of Aerith and Zack reunion in the lifestream on Part 3 where they'll become pivotal for Cloud's recovery. I fear Tifa will be incapable of bringing him back on her own. This could work especially if Aerith ends up dying in Rebirth, they could use this way to have her back (not alive, but as a relevant character that doesn't just 'appears' through Holy at the end of the game) and Zack becomes vital outside his own timeline. Speaking of Zack's returnal to Midgar. Something really doesn't add up. He sees, we all see, Midgar being freed of the tornado. There's no fire or smoke in his timeline. I seriously doubt that one way or another going back to Aerith wouldn't be one of his first choices. But, in intermission he's all groomed, so... What exactly happened and how long has it been seen his arrival and his journey to Sector 5 slums? And this is why I try not to think too much about his case 😆
@@Ghostlicht Interesting thing here with alt timelines and the lifestream...Could it be possible that having a situation where somebody alive in an alt timeline prevents them from existing in the lifestream? If Zack is alive in this other timeline, would he not be existing in the cloud timeline's lifestream because he's alive in some other timeline? I Know lifestream is arbitrary in terms of the flow of time as we know it, so maybe there's some interesting stuff there? idk
My hot take is that It isn't Sephiroth messing with Cloud, it is Jenova. The real Sephiroth doesn't actually make an appearance until North Crater when he is revived by the Black Materia. Every time Sephiroth appears, it is only as Sephiroth, because that is Jenova being a manifestation of Clouds hate/fear. Jenova is the real villain puppet-master up until Sephiroth is revived and assimilates Jenova's abilities.
That's what I've always felt. I feel you have a three tiered story playing out. Jenova VS Earth. Then you have their chosen avatars carrying out their will on the planet. They came to a stalemate in the past but now only Aerith is left to be the voice of the planet and because of Hojo Jenova has Sephiroth as she normally wouldn't be able to corrupt earthlings to that degree. So you kind of have Aerith VS Sephiroth next. Then you have Cloud who is some nobody looser, who through the power of friendship and imposter syndrome manages to act as a link between both Aerith and Sephiroth fighting on behalf of everyone else. in OG FF7 your party doesn't even get to the northern crater without Shinra. I appreciate how the protagonist are literal terrorists and the evil coorporation still has an opportunity to contribute to saving the planet.
My ultimate wish would be for zack to have a separate journey with his own party after sephiroth. Have the 2 timelines meet at the forgotten city. Now my only dilemma is who the heck would be in his party. Jessie? Biggs? Soilder Grunt Cloud? They all use guns 🔫. I could definitely see Jessie being worked into a chemist character with Rikku ffx mix ability. Maybe he drags Johnny along.
I just realized that's Crispin Freeman as the newscaster in the beginning of the trailer. He voiced Rude in Advent Children, so it's great to see he got to come back to this game in some form.
Just to add: 1. you can see the location where they are riding the chocobos on the right side of the wide shot at 16:14 2. You can see the chocobo ranch on the cliff in the distance at 14:11 3. 22:24 the Radio tower is obstructing a huge structure not found in the original game 4. For a frame you can see a similar structure behind Yuffie when her and Red XIII are teaming up 4. There is another radio tower base in the shot at 25:39 although max is blocking it, and 28:52 so it must be a gameplay element 5. The same snowy mountain with the notches cut out of it is visible in the background of the scene with cloud and Barret teaming up 6. The battle against the Knack monster is only a 2 person party, while the battle against the Turks has the remaining 3 party members, which might suggest that the party will split up (sometimes) but we will still play the scenario for both (did it in part one during the Plate scenario) 7. Aerith Rides Chocobos Side-saddle style 17:47 lol
Love your breakdown, theories and enthusiasm. My take on this multiple timeline theory is that our FF7Remake timeline has been changed into Zack's survival timeline. While our party was in the "singularity" in remake, time and space was being altered outside of it hence Zack being saved. Once our party emereged at the end of remake, they are unaware of the changes that have occured (Aerith being the exception as she may have sensed Zack's essence) Due to the past being changed, a butterfly effect took place where we now have a paradox. There is an Avalanche in "Zacks Timeline" consisiting of who we may suspect to be wedge, jessie, biggs, barret, & tifa (cloud, red xiii and aerith are variables) but the events unfold differently for them. This version of Avalanche is who we see seemingly dead in the trailer. Its one "altered timeline". So we have our remake party traversing this new world with Zack not far behind who is also unaware of this temporal change. Zack's timeline version of Aerith is dead but eventully will discover the remake party (our party) with Aerith alive. Its fun to speculate isnt it😅 What if we get a Zack DLC with him teeming up with jessie, biggs, or wedge in pursuit of who knows what...... There are many variables such as Yuffie DLC and "when" or "what timeline" it took place but we need more information. Theres so much more to this. Its content creators like you, ray coffman, babyseal, night sky prince, final fantasy peasent and other youtubers who make this so much more entertaining. Keep up the good work🎉
Everytime this theory is repeated from here up till babyseal himself I just dont get how you all keep stating all these things as facts. Yet in your entire paragraph. Not one claim has been backed up by an example or anything. Its all wishful interpretation. And just because its super whacky/validates the haters prejudice its a popular theory. Which weirds me out even more. The biggest FF7R fans teaming up with the biggest sceptics to back up this one wild theory.
@@mikev8746 They're just theories and speculation at the end of the day. Its perfectly fine for people to support or contest them as they wish. I havent noticed content creators such as the ones I've pointed out stating theories as fact but more so as probabilities or possibilities. Its how theory crafting works. To each their own.
@@Foreverheroz Yeah sure I get that. My point is rather that I try to follow along. But this one timeline theory doesnt really come with a clear example why its more likely. I guess I then wonder why certain people believe in it since thats all I am left with at that moment. But sure everyone can believe what they wish to believe regarding where it might be headed. I cant argue there.
My one question about the Cloud barista thing is this. In Zacks timeline, Cloud already had been experimented on just like Zack was. So even if Cloud is a barista he would still have his powers.
Based off the book they released recently "Traces of Two Pasts" I'm guessing our game / opening cut scene is going to have the party arriving and being in Kalm and the game is going to open up to the flash back with Sephiroth. After that the treck to the farm and using the chocobos to cross the marsh. I feel like most, if not all, this trailer is really just showing us the first couple hours of the game. And like you pointed out, fighting Jenova departing Junon is likely really early. Probably first 10 hours easy. For the Cosmo Canon thing, they did say the "events may be out of order. But they're all in there." So, who knows if we hit Gold Saucer right away / Dyne's plot, or not. For the Red XIII and Barret fighting that boss I feel that is the crystal cave boss. I think what's going to happen is that the party gets split up by "reason" like we saw happen plenty in REMAKE. Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith are dealing with Rude and Ellena, while Barret and Red are dealing this "mythril cave" boss. Thinking about the hot swapping thing you talk about, I completely agree. But, what makes me completely agree more is the fact that the producers and main scenario team also that did 7 also did X and in the last couple of years when asked what ff game they'd want to remake, similarly to 7, they said X. But it'd have to be once the remake project was completed. Well, they already confirmed its 3 parts and confirmed that part 3 was in development already alongside part 2. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if REBIRTH was testing out how hot swapping would work so that it can be brought to FFX "REMAKE". and hitting the idea of "Tifa was hit by sephiroth how could she be alive" in Tifa's retelling of the events of "Traces of Two Pasts" she was cut by sephiroth. Had a terrible wound across her chest, was unconscious for over a month, and received skin graphs to restore the damaged area. She very much lives, and ends up almost perfectly back to normal. Honestly, more people should read this book if they're a ff7 fan, its very good and interesting.
The scene of Tifa getting slashed is straight from the OG game. The OG just glossed over a lot of the inconsistencies with Cloud's recollection of events, because they didn't actually come up with the Zack twist until later in development (a bunch of the scenes with Zack weren't even in the OG Japanese release, but were rather added for the US and International releases). From Tifa's perspective Cloud was never in Nibelheim because he kept his helmet on in front of her, since he didn't want her to know he failed to make SOLDIER. From Cloud's perspective, he has Zack's memories and doesn't know what happened to Tifa after he left her and Zack to get revenge on Sephiroth. Making those inconsistencies an actual plot point with Sephiroth using them to try and manipulate Cloud is just a way smarter way to handle things, especially since a lot of players know the truth, either from playing the original or CCFFVIIR.
yeah she survived due to Zangan saving her after she was left for dead, but Cloud attacked Sephiroth and tossed him into the reactor core, which is why Sephiroth would assume she just died.
I think when cloud goes all reunion in what I'm going to call the primary timeline with everyone alive. He'll take over his reunion counterpart in Zack's timeline. Cloud will be the key between the two timelines and possibly allow for some type of bridge.
16:48 apparently in a dev interview they stated that all the 'key moments' of FF7 will be revisted but may not be in the 'same order'. I think a example of this may be that they do the 'date' at Gold saucer when you get to gold saucer instead of on your second trip to gold saucer
For a long time I also believed that something would change with Golden Saucer. For instance, after Dyne's incident they won't have us return there for the Keystone to the temple. But now I'm not so sure anymore because it's when we find out about Cait Sith's betrayal, the date which could be important to foreshadow Aerith's death or Cloud's past (depending on which girl we take) and the theater! Given that we know that Jessie wanted to become an actress, I'm fairly certain they'll use the theater to bring her character back into topic. But of course, these last two could fit in a first visit and we learn about Cait Sith in Rocket Town after Shinra get there. Now as to what the keystone is concerned... :D
The theory about 1 timeline is that the Party was transported to Zack's timeline when they stepped out of the singularity. They and their dead counterparts are in the same world. It has it's merits and demerits. One of the biggest one's I can think of for against it is the party exiting Midgar along the same route Zack and Cloud are entering it, seemingly at the same time. That could have also been a trick, though. It was just showing they took the same path. We don't know.
Imagine part of the unknown journey being the ability to explore Sectors 2-4… And possibly fight those rumored Cobalt XI and Indigo XII or whatnot. I think Zack will have Laguna segments, and I’m looking forward to all of it.
If there is another timeline with Zack, and Cloud is there too, he probably hasn’t recovered because if you’ve played FFVII, Cloud doesn’t regain full consciousness until he reunites with Tifa at the train station. So unless he’s met Tifa, he’s still going through mako poisoning.
@@kadosho02not unless he’s met up with Tifa. I say this because when he was with Zack, Cloud was still going through mako poisoning. He was still aware that Zack died, but he was still sick afterwards, and even when he made his way to Midgar alone. He doesn’t regain full consciousness until he hears Tifa’s voice. If it wasn’t for her finding him at the train station,he would’ve still been sick.
Max. In the book they released "Final Fantasy VII Remake: Traces of Two Pasts" Explains Everything that happens to tifa from the time she got slashed by sepheroth up on till she meets Barrett, Bigs, Wedge and Jassie :). It's a great read. It also talks about aerith's past
I think 2 timelines definitely makes sense. Tho, I'm thinking everyone is not dead at the beginning but are being rescued/captured, as the reporter specifically says "search and rescue" the moment they show the group. Plus when recovering dead bodies, they usually cover the whole body with a sheet, not up to the waist.
I fully enjoy watching Max's stream about this trailer and not even notice it was 3am for me at some point, and you know I'll see it again. I can't thing of a better person to share the love to FF7 than him and sharing it with him makes the trilogy project more entertaining and enjoyable, thanks dood!
There’s so much that this game is going to have it’s insane. We’re most likely getting new materia, abilities, limit breaks, summons, weapons, new enemies and much more and it’s on 2 discs this game is going to be so much fun I need it
I think if the two discs are playable (which tells you the sheer size of it) then the natural break point is Nibelheim. Because from there you get to Rocket Town and the chance to go back and forth to previous locations. So Disc 2 would open up that part of the world state.
Nice thought! I can't wait to see how they get us from Rocket Town to Temple of the Ancients and then Forgotten City. Will be fun to see Tiny Bronco again
Not sure about that, since the Nibelheim environment is featured both in the Kalm flashback and later on as part of the Western continent in playable form. I think it's probably more likely that they're both just data install discs and the game is huge.
Max, I'm from Brazil, I was watching a video by a TH-camr from here. He has a mouse mask. He was there in the US making a video at the Mortal Kombat event and you appeared in his video. Very cool!!
What if the reason there are two discs is because you'll be going on two adventures? One disc is cloud and his group, the other disc is Zac and his group going through whatever this altered world might be.
When it comes to 2 discs, I just assume it will function like Remake did. Insert one it does a download and then the 2nd disc unlocks the rest. As for Zack, I'd wonder if it would be peppered in, an unlocked separate sequence, or finding links within Cloud's timeline to switch over to Zack's for a sequence of events like levels over full exploration.
My theory is that Max was hired by SE to partially explain the story. SE realized they needed to do something "new", but at the same time, they are not going to be able to explain this timeline sheet to the average player. P.S Max GJ with FF16 battle demo, that was just epic. So happy to see you there with the devs.
I'm curious to see how they would adapt the following: Chocobo racing Chocobo breeding Master Materia Weapon Fights Knights of the Round Submarine exploration
5:10 am I the only that flipped getting to see the Highwind up there???? That’s basically a character reveal and no one is talking about it! I WAS SQUEALING IN AN ULTRA EXCITED ALIEN LANGUAGE SEEING THE HIGHWIND!
Wow, im really impressed you noticed all these small things just from the trailer especially the fact that you can have back up characters in the background and can be called forth to battle when swapping is needed. Thats something I miss from FF10 days.
I still can’t believe ppl like Max are complaining about 1080p, like bro, I lived in a time where I was grateful to have things at like 480p and somewhat intelligible. 1080p is more than enough for me, idk, maybe I’m just old.
Trailer looks fantastic/ beautiful. Also the Unknown Journey has me highly intrigued. I hope in this new entrance, the aerial game still the path of improvement that it has shown Intermission, and even further. Cloud, Yuffie, Tiffa and all the other party members who can perform aerial combos should be able to do them whenever we want and not just with aerial enemies. Sadly in Remake this great ability has been sorely underutilized. In fact, of all of them, Cloud is the one who can have the most incredible aerial battles. For that reason he in particular is the one who hurts me the most. Just look at Advent Children.
One interesting thing is also when Sephiroth ominously describes Jenova. "She can become those you hate, those you fear, those you love" "Those you love"...Like Aerith. Remember how Aerith said "Don't fall in love with me"? Maybe (BIG maybe) Jenova will fuck with Clouds mind, make him think he's fighting her, the brain fog lists and it reveals Cloud is the one to kill Aerith this time around.
I'm honestly not convinced by the concept of 'timelines' in a semantic sense. When we think of timelines, we think of at least two split flows of time where a decision or multiple decisions were made to change events tangibly. I don't think that's what's happening here. The events of the FF7R have been bothering me because I don't think we have EVER been in the 'original' FF7 at all. The Watchmen of Fate were not infallible, they were reactive. When Wedge survived they worked to chenge that, when Cloud saw Deepground they pushed them out of the lab, when Barrett was shot they worked to restore him. The Watchmen have not been in 'control' of this remake timeline ever, because if they were, these discrepancies wouldn't have been allowed to happen in the first place. Rather, what I think is happening, is that these incompatible events are happening in the same space. The 'timelines' are actually layers of existence overlapping with one another, and they're overlapping because the Lifestream is completely fucked up and has possibly stagnated around the events of FF7. It would explain why Sephiroth is so keen to create a fate where he isn't necessarily destined to lose, and it would also explain how Aerith from the OG was able to slip into the Remake plane of existence to stop him. It's Lifestream manipulation and both of them are doing it. So, rather than 'FF7' and 'Zack' timeline, I think that both of these are 'Possibilities' that chronologically occur AFTER the original FF7. They're corrupted Lifestream vomit converging on top of each other due to Sephi-shenanigans.
A sound theory! It's sephy intentionally going back and trying to redo his plan because he lost for good in advent children. He is immortal being connected to lifestream so him going back in time through the planets cycle makes perfect sense
Correct, this isn’t the OGFF7 it’s another entry to the compilation. Fans of this game tend to love the compilation while others like myself dislike many aspects of it because we love OG7 only and don’t care at all for the compilation additions.
Two planes of existence makes sense as well. FFII did that with Hell and Heaven. Even in Compilations especially Advent Children, it's weird seeing Zack and Aerith interacted with Cloud like they're still alive. Then Cloud saw them in the same church as him at the end.
Plus the new voice cast, adds something unique to the journey. I definitely believe we will learn more about Seph, and the crossover between timelines in conflict with one another
What more do we really need to know? How he gets his hair so soft? What he eats for breakfast? I mean, they probably will flesh out his story more but it's really not needed.
I didn't read all comments but speaking in PHS during what seems that same fight with different characters the small tiny bar under the at bar when it's different characters seems to change. I think either it tells the number of times you can switch party members or if it's full is when you can change a member out. If your not sure what I'm talking about it's below the atb and the limit gauge. There 4 small tally's or 4 small bars
As soon as I opened up TH-cam and saw Max's video about FF7, instantly click lol. Enjoyed every last bit of the video. Talks like this is what makes me pump about Rebirth. 7-8months away. I cannot wait.
A VERY curious thing about the party being 'Dead' at the beginning. Is at the end of the first game, Zack was carrying Cloud toward Midgard. Cloud was/is with Zack. So, for the rest of the party to witness the Singularity and 'Die' from it, and Cloud was not with them(he was being carried back to Midgard by Zack), WHO was with the party, if not Cloud?
So what I’m taking from the trailer is that in Zacks timeline, neither him or cloud joined avalanche because Tifa doesn’t know zack really and cloud is MIA, and thus barrets group failed in bombing the reactors at some point and died. Also, is Sephiroth alluding to killing tifa in the new or maybe a different timeline? Or is that misdirection of his actions from the OG ff7 and he’s calling Aerith an imposter. 🧐 can’t wait to find out
in the japanese trailer he says "I killed Tifa. Who is she?" the way he says it implies he thought she was dead after he hurt her in nibelheim. I mean he never had time to confirm the kill, since right after he got killed by Cloud.
@@sabrinas.79 ahh thanks for that input I had no idea. It still seems like they are heavily playing on tifa being an imposter of some sort (jenova spawn) which is very interesting to me. I feel like there is some major misdirection happening still
Both FF7 Remake and FF16 have loading times in the 3-6 second range. The elevator in Junon, the gondola in the Golden Saucer, or even the winding climb to Cosmo Canyon would be more than enough to hide the loading.
There's 3 timelines. OG Ff7, then there's Zacks timeline and finally the timeline for Rebirth but... There might be a 4th revealed in part 3. The reunion vision isn't just showing cloud, if you listen its actually young cloud. This could mean alot of things.
What's weird about Zack's timeline is that he seems to have been brought to the future too. The dead party we see at the beginning looks like "present time" age.
That's what I thought too. But Zack could be on the run from Shinra taking Cloud with him prior to him going to the church for 5 Years. Probably he doesn't want to come back right away because Shinra is on his Tail and not bring it to Aerith. But he has a good reason to come back now because of the whispers tornado. Idk, i might be reaching.
@@zerofudou5689 It's also possible that Sephiroth was messing with Zack's timeline the whole game, and engineered events so that Zack would arrive several months late, causing the rest of the party to fail without Cloud's help.
According to all of the official information we have on the timeline of FF7, the time between Zack's death and the opening of FF7 is just a couple of months. Zack's final stand is in the end of September 0007. We don't know exactly when Cloud is found by Tifa in Sector 7 but it's sometime between that and very early December. The bombing of Reactor 1 is on December 9, 0007. The entire month of December also covers everything until Aerith's death. I think Zack isn't "brought over to the future" because it could very well be that the party haven't even met each other, aside from Barret and Tifa. Red XIII and Aerith are shown separately. I have a feeling that it's immediately after Zack's "final stand".
@@DevilHunter1994 This is most likely. If Zack's return is delayed then Shinra's military forces would be spread thin dealing with Avalanche so he'd have a better chance of surviving. And then in his timeline you'd have the party fail without Cloud there to bolster their strength, but they'd still probably make it that far since for example Tifa would have fallen from Mako Reactor 5 into Aerith's church.
It makes me wonder how far Rebirth will go. If Disc 1 / 2 are essentially a two parter, this is probably my best guess as to how it'll go. DISC 1 - 14 Main locations (some have been combined) 1. Kalm (Flashback tutorial) 2. Chocobo Farm (With Midgar Serpent boss) 3. Mythril Mines 4. Fort Condor? (Depends if it's optional or not) Between 4 and 5: Yuffie. 5. Junon 6. Cargo Ship 7. Costa Del Sol 8. Mt Corel 9. I CANT WAIT FOR THE GOLD SAUCER! (and Cait Sith) 10. Corel Prison 11. Me? Gongaga. 12. Cosmo Canyon and Caves of Gi 13. Nibelheim/Manor (and Vincent) 14. Nibelheim Reactor (END OF DISC 1) DISC 2 - 8 Main Locations (With some mixed) 15. Rocket Town (and Cid) 16. Wutai Part 1 maybe? (Going from the Machinimabridged version where Yuffie steals the materia) 17. WE'RE GOING BACK TO THE GOLD SAUCER! 18. Temple of the Ancients 19. Bone Village 20. City of the Ancients (and possibly Aerith's death) 21. Snow fields (Icicle Inn and Great Glacier) 22. Northern Crater (END OF DISC 2) Northern Crater and Snowfields I mixed as they made sense to consider as one giant level each. Not an even scale but it makes the more sense.
I think the reason Yuffie is on the ship is because she steals the groups materia, and they track her down to the ship. My guess is they probably corner her and then Jenovaroth shows up.
Max keeps missing the boat with Yuffie 🫤 she isn't a side character anymore. She's going to get the same narrative focus as Barret, Red and Cid that also applies to Vincent. She was clutching her head before freaking out, Jenova showed her something likely related to Nero or Sonon. Her confidence was broken at the end of intermission, She acknowledged that she couldn't handle things by herself and needed help. People are hanging on to the materia theft from the original game which was probably the most polarising section of the original and straight up wouldn't work in hard mode. Yuffie has the Nero conflict which will lead to her teaming with Vincent dealing with Deepground. War is potentially restarting in Wutai thanks to Scarlett and Heidigger, Yuffie has a heck of a lot on her plate already. Square are going ham making up for what they couldn't do the first time round with her all of these party members are going to feast narratively.
I firmly believe every character will have an arc, including Vincent and Cid. She had a DLC for a reason. Every party member is gonna have a story purpose, and after so much time on the trilogy, each character will have a specific ability that differentiates them like FF6. OG FF7's biggest problem was a lack of differentiation between characters. FF7 remedied this. The sequels will continue this
@@dempseywilliams1828 Yea the conflict between Cloud a d Sephiroth is ofc the main focus but this is a beloved group of characters who the fanbase wants to see more from. Square are going all out to flesh out our party which will make the big story beats so much more impactful.
I'm thinking Vincent will have his own story as an add-on, kind of like how Yuffie did for part one (considering that they were both optional characters in the original game). Probably a back story of what happened to him to help introduce him to the remake's story. Maybe it will have some elements reminiscent of Dirge of Ceberus.
Agreed. It would make so much sense to do Episode Yuffie and Episode Vincent as DLC add-ons with their own Remake version of DC. I'm thinking the final DLC episode, for Part III, could also resolve the Genesis cliffhanger from the end of DC. Maybe Episode Zack?
Prediction: The Midgar Zolum will be an environmental threat. It will be something you have to run from as it absolutely trashes the marsh as you balls our run through the marsh. You won't fight it, it will be one of those 'if it catches you, you die' kind of threats. It'll make it all the more indimidating when Sephiroth offs it a minute later.
It would be pretty cool if they manage to not show us any of Vincent before release, and make him optional (he turns you down when you offer for him to come along and you have to talk to him again like in the original.) They could still add him later on if you miss him. One way would be to have him leave the group at the end of Rebirth for some angsty brooding and when he shows up in part 3 the "so you decided to come along" line works either way. but I think it would be cool to still have him be optional. Its not like new players wouldn't find out and get to go back and play it again like we did with the og.
If memory serves, isn’t it the planet that saves itself? Thought Jenova delayed the summoning of Holy causing it to be late to protect from meteor but the planet ended up protecting itself
I don't think it's the Cave of the Gaea's, Red would be a fixed member of the party if that were the case. Great video. Excitement is ramping up! I think the game will go as far as the Temple of the A.
17:33 You can tell at this point in the video that the developers intentionally pointed the camera in the direction to the right. I believe that those 2 logs laying down are climbable!
Just an observation: Zack isn't influenced by Jenova cells. When you visit the library in the basement of Shinra's mansion, there is a report, divided into 4 parts, that talks about Zack and Cloud's escape. I'll put text over the second report: "Escapee Report no. 2 Description of the time of capture. A Former member of SOLDIER/Number ( ) No effect could be detected from either Mako Radiation Therapy or Jenova on him. B Regular/Number ( ) Reaction to Jenova detected." That is, Zack's body did not react with the Mako radiation or the Jenova cells. On the other hand, there was reaction from Cloud. So, this can point to why we see Cloud as member of the reunion (wearing the black cloak) in the Northern Cave * in Zack's timeline *.
![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.15 (3/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IVwR87OH0_A/mqdefault.jpg)
Everyone drop your things Max is talking about ff7
thank you!! 👏👏
Literally my thought process
Ok, fine. I'm in the middle of a Trial but I'll do it. Even while Mr. Edgeworth is on the screen.
Babe, wake up
Max dropped new talking about FF7 vid
Basically what I did 😅
Cloud not being in the wreckage in Zack's timeline makes total sense because Cloud is with Zack when the whisper tornado happened, he's the one Zack was protecting. He is almost certainly alive and well in Zacks timeline.
Yeah, honestly after seeing this, and factoring in the scene from Intermission, I'm thinking the Zack lives timeline was in existance for longer than most realize. The common theory is that the timeline came into existance because of us destroying the Whispers, but now I'm thinking Sephiroth created this timeline before Remake even started, and changed how events unfolded in that timeline so that Zack would arrive at Midgar significantly later than he was supposed to. This would make it so that, without Cloud's help, the party would ultimately fail in their objectives and be killed off, or at least captured and taken out of the picture. Destroying the Whispers didn't create the timeline. It just made sure that the changes Sephiroth made to the timeline were able to stick.
@DevilHunter1994 But without Cloud's help they would have never gotten that far. If he's not at Sector 5 to fall and meet Aerith and bring her to Wall Market, how does she meet Tifa? And Barret? Not to mention all the other times Cloud saved their asses.
What I think is those bodies are the tattooed Sephiroth clones in the image of the party to mess with them, especially Cloud. Who's dead? Who's alive? Who's actually Jenova in disguise? That's why there is so much emphasis on them in this trailer. Why Rufus is talking about them, and why Sephiroth is talking about Jenova's ability to do shape-shifting. It's all connected.
Not sure about "well"....but he's certainly alive
I don't think the whisper tornado is the same one that kills everyone otherwise red wouldn't be there
@@crowtastic7372 why not? Red was with them at that point?
Anyone who says Yuffie's reaction with Cloud is just her being motion-sick are blatantly ignoring the fact that she just recently experienced a nightmare-- Sonon being stabbed to death by Nero who had a lot of purple aura around him. She is experiencing PTSD. Not unlike Cloud who has PTSD over seeing burning buildings.
Unfortunately Max has a blind spot with Yuffie. He hasn't been fully sold yet but her story is looking very strong with all the breadcrumbs they've laid out so far.
Or, hes not trying to spoil all the stuff that happened in integrade that also has tie ins to other ff7 extended content that also spoil a lot of main game ff7 original story.
Aww that's sad.
Adding emotional depth to Yuffie as a character is great 👍
@@DontXtheStream You aren't Yuffie, though. She's pretty jumpy and hyperactive.
The best experience I have had in gaming during my adult years was playing FF7R. I'd play a chapter or two and at night watch Max play up to where I left off. I remember getting a PS3 thinking how awesome FF7 would be on it, was waiting on this moment for years. Enjoying it solo then watching Max and chat react and enjoy this game we are so nostalgic for was peak entertainment.
Max is the main man I wait for, to see trailer reactions for FF7 especially to hear about any information and just talking about FF in general. Could listen to this guy talk about his favourite game forever and never get old. FF7 rebirth is going to be so massive and amazing. 💫
I agree but selfishly I love riding this ff7 ride til the wheels fall off
kinda like that one guy who cried over that disney starwars movie, it is certainly something!
It's also possible that because Tifa isn't gonna be around, Cloud might not snap out of his mako sickness and is just gonna stay a vegetable in Zack's timeline, or he may also end up becoming just one of Sephiroth's "clones"(the guys with the cloaks), and wander the place just muttering "reunion".
It's strange to think about who Cloud might become in Zack's timeline.
Well Cloud wake up for his lethargy state literally because Zack dies in front of him, so Zack staying alive doesn't give him the shock he needed to wake up.
@@titi3736 Cloud actually doesn't snap out of it till Tifa notices him in Midgar sitting down on the floor and talked to him, he was basically a zombie when he walked into Midgar.
Zack's death only added trauma to what Cloud was already going through.
@@Arashi257 you're right I forgot about that, but still Zack's death change his state from complete vegetable to walking zombie so it did something to him. But yeah true he actually was still in zombie mode.
Well if zack doesn't die + he doesn't meet tifa then that double explains why he would still be a zombie.
the trailer literally shows him at northern cave as one of the robed guys saying "reunion". thats def from zacks timeline.
Loved seeing how happy he was to be up on that stage he absolutely deserved it. Max has done so much for the series and community much respect happy for him
He went for FFXVI but he dressed for XV.
One thing max seems to be missing is that sephiroth isn't just messing with cloud. He is obviously doing that but it has a deeper meaning in that if sephiroth in remake really has come from the og timeline, he is intentionally trying to destroy cloud and tifas bond by trying to frame tifa as jenova because tifa is the only one has the key to clouds true self.
this 🙏🙌
@@JonCrowVO especially in the first trailer for rebirth the main dialogue was cloud referencing how he saw tifa lying almost dead after sephiroths attack and tifa sounding incredulous at the assumption that she died and is an imposter. It seems like cloud and tifas relationship for rebirth are the big focus so it can come full circle with greater impact in the third game through the lifestream segment if they are following the original cycle or events or something similar
Max didn’t miss anything. He is after Cloud period
My theory is that this time Sephiroth will succeed in discrediting Tifa and we'll need some other way to save Cloud from his despair.
That's a great observation in terms of why Sephiroth would do that, but it's still ultimately about Cloud isn't it. Sephiroth doesn't directly care about Tifa - he's merely using her to mess with Cloud, but as I say, really cool observation 👌 Sephiroth's thought it through.
I love it when we get a full breakdown of new FF7 Rebirth content from Max. There's the sense of rush I get from just the FF7 content itself, and then also from seeing a huge video from Max about all the theories that can be talked about. We really are in a golden age for FF7.
Umm what golden age for ff 7? lmao did you even play Remake? The most arrogant person ever to grace the video game development scene tetsuya freakin nomura completely ruined the story with his shitty constant meta-textual ideas, this is going to turn into the star wars sequel trilogy come back here after rebirth and prove me wrong.
I disagree. You’re in the golden age for the compilation of FF7, because this is the final entry of the compilation and we know this because it also retcons the original games narrative and themes. I’m really glad people like this but I personally can’t enjoy a narrative that undermines the original story I love so much and ignited my passion for excellent storytelling.
Max touches upon the “unreliable narrator” writing device which was executed to perfection in the original but now becomes useless in this series because of the changes. That being said, I’ll still play the game because the combat and boss fights are 10/10. 😊
@@ItsSVO A retcon? Isn't this better labeled as a "sequel" rather than a retcon? Its like a time travel story. Without the original, the altered timeline would have no context nor sense.
@@StriderVM It’s a sequel to advent children but sequels can still be retcons of the works that came before. The compilation massively retconned and undermined the original game’s story and characters which is why me and many other FF7 fans don’t care about the compilation and consider FF7 as a standalone story as it was never planned to be anything else until SE wanted to print more money. The altered timeline is a good example because it directly contradicts the original themes by Inserting fate and destiny which was never a part of FF7. That’s why It doesn’t make any sense for it to exist even with the context.
I don’t think i ever heard a single person ask the question “I really want to know what would happen if Zack had survived” and yet people did ask that, I have to ask why? What would happen is you’d have a completely new and unrelated story with the same characters. It’s like me wanting a remake of Game of thrones where Jon defeats the embodiment of fate purely so we can have an alternative timeline where Ned stark survives. That in essence would be me just wanting a completely different story with the same characters which I don’t and would never because I’m a fan of the game of thrones story not a story that George could’ve but didn’t write.
This is why I don’t really understand people who want and enjoy this because it has nothing at all to do with the story you supposedly love and is ultimately just officially licensed fan fiction. I don’t have an issue with people who do like it, I just don’t understand why they would. I like stories, I don’t care about characters from a story I love taking part in completely new ones.
@@ItsSVO The point of ff7 remake was defying destiny but it still had the OG themes and messages that were present in the midgar section. Stories can have more than one theme that don’t contradict each other.
A lot of people like this direction because they're able to experience this world in a new light. I think people are getting tired of these constant remakes being pumped out so they're beginning to appreciate the extra effort the ff7 remakes display. It's fine if you're not into the new direction and even I'm not 100% on the changes. My friend said he just wanted a simple remake and I get that. As for me, FF7 OG is so good that I'm fine with a new direction and I got pc mods and Ever Crisis if I ever crave a simple remaster with the same story.
Aerith changing the portal color from dark to light at the end of Remake is something I haven't heard talked about a lot, maybe it has but I didn't hear it. I feel like that's one of the most literal evidence of the two timelines the characters are on. Unless it's something different, but I feel like that was Sephiroth baiting them into a timeline, but Aerith said no.
Being able to meet you at the FF16 fanfest , chat for bit and take a picture was a dream come true. Thanks again Max!!!!
If Zach is getting his own timeline (which I do think is what we’re seeing) it’d be a great way to get Biggs/Wedge/Jessie back in the story. Alternate Dyne would be interesting too.
I’m really hoping they go the “Character Switch” route with Zack’s timeline. Sonon could take Yuffie’s place along with other potential replacements.
Dyne as Barret’s sub, Jesse as Tifa’s sub. The list goes on….
@@johnnysalery7383 100%, boost the rosters without having to create half a dozen new play styles for these alternate characters.
Don’t think there is any “if” he gets one. He clearly has one
@@johnnysalery7383 I feel like if anyone from Zack’s timeline would replace Yuffie from a gameplay perspective, it would be Cissnei. We already know she uses a throwing star after all. Could be a great way to flesh out her character from crisis core. Her story was left very open ended if I remember correctly.
Man that would be so badass I fuck with that concept
Max’s enthusiasm for FF always gets me so hyped up!
sephiroth is trying to mess with cloud and make him think that tifa is not real, that jenova took her shape since she can become in the shape of those you love
sephiroth gains a lot from messing with cloud, since if he can drive cloud to maybe hurt tifa sephiroth can benefit a lot, tifa was essential in saving cloud's mind, she is the one who helped cloud's regain his true self in the lifestream, this is pretty similar to og ff7 but they might expand on that
it's also confirmed in the japanese version that sephiroth was talking about tifa since he says in that version "i killed tifa"
As a fan who gets what is going on i'm happy you are here to explain to many how these narratives expand themselves. Thanks Max!
I think Rebirth will end at the Northern Crater. It's a ton of ground to cover, but it makes a lot of sense. It would end with Sephiroth's "Rebirth" when Cloud hands him the black materia.
Always fun to watch Max go on his Final Fantasy 7 tangents!
How passionate Max is about the game is amazing😊
I may be the most hyped to hear the updated Cosmo Canyon theme. Absolutely cannot wait for that
I'm currently playing REMAKE (I watched a playthrough already when it first came out) and I think the new music sucks arse. I hope they improve it.
@@AlcogodL opinion
It had better get quieter the further we go down. Please give us the nice things!
Someone listens to cardi b.
@@Alcogod yeah they changed so much of Nobuo's music that its almost unrecognizable and doesn't hit right.
My headcanon is Cloud is a Honeybee Inn Dancer in Zack's timeline.
Regarding the final lines about Tifa being dead, I feel like this is FF7R's answer to how Sephiroth will control Cloud at points. Instead of an unexplained mind-control, Seph actually gets into his head and maybe forces visions (like Nibelheim burning in the middle of Midgar), getting him to attack or defend himself from an illusory threat. And considering what you said about making everyone unreliable, maybe trying to trick the player at points as well.
I don't think he's even talking about Tifa.....its a misdirection that movie trailers do all the time....he's talking about ....you know who
@@mitchrogers4217 The JP trailer says Tifa there, but that was my initial thought, too
That's the thing I love about listening to Max, he doesn't rush a breakdown right out the gate like a lot of FF content creators. He lets it stew a bit and a lot of his predictions are reasonable conclusions one could draw on if they take time to look at the trailer. Not flinging ideas that have zero basis. The thing that got me most worried about the trailer was about Tifa's fate. I played the OG FF7, I should know what happens but this trailer is screwing with me. Leave to Max to bring me back down to reality 😄
10:11 yeah people for some reason don't understand that a branch of time has changed and there's 2 time lines
All the while seeing Zack and Sephiroth running around 😅 and the stamp bag is different. But I enjoy stories like this they don't explain everything it's fun to watch a old story unfold in a new way one of the most ambitious story telling ever. And Max does a AMAZING job of breaking it down and explaining it.
I love when MAX talks about FF7. That's what I'm here for.
I know initially people were disappointed that FF7R took a long time to finally come out, but in all honesty. I actually think that somehow the universe knew it was the right time. With all of the skills and experience gained from developing previous titles, we’re able to put all of that together with the advancements in technology in order to create such an amazing game. Really looking forward to the next installment of FF7R.
I agree. And I'm not bothered by Rebirth coming out next year either. Devs and creators should take all the time they need to develop the best titles they can. We all know what rushed dev cycles end up like, and I do not want that for my favourite video game ever.
How long do games take to make? I thought it came out pretty fast
Meh we dont know if these are the same devs on other projects. Id need to look at credits. Because diff teams usually work on diff projects
Go back and rewatch the PS3 tech demo and think about how limited it would have had to be if they had remade it back then.
Square Enix actually outsourced a lot of the work on FFVII R to another developer, before scrapping all of that and bringing it back in-house when the work of that developer turned out to be subpar, about three years worth of work scrapped. They should have never outsourced in the first place, though as far as I know, Remake and Rebirth are the same teams with a few changes.
So I'm still on the multiple timelines train, but there is an interpretation of the one timeline theory that I found interesting. When the party exited the singularly, they might have exited into Zack's timeline and the versions of themselves that SHOULD have been in that timeline were the ones who we saw on that news broadcast. It seems PLAUSIBLE, but I'm not sure if it's likely.
I think that the dead/injured members of Avalanche could either be what happened to those characters in Zack's timeline, or they could have been a SHINRA deep-fake (because they control everything in Midgar, even the News) in the Remake timeline so that the company can save face. Better that the public believes the terrorists that destroyed reactors and assassinated the president were killed during their escape attempt than that they got away, which would make SHINRA look incompetent and shake public confidence in their abilities.
On an unrelated note, I'm quite certain that 21:00 is not the Cave of the Gi. The color palette isn't right (it was an ominous red, brown and green in the OG) and I don't think you'd see metal guard-railing and electric lighting there in the Remake.
Wait, so you mean it would essentially be two timelines in one? Our protagonists would then have two versions of themselves, with one being (probably) dead but Zack still alive? Man I didn't think of that, that would be very interesting. The only thing I found puzzling though is that while Zack, Biggs and Jessie all were shown to be alive AFTER the last encounter with the specters, wasn't Wedge already shown to be alive when he shouldn't have been BEFORE that?
@Soyl it's been a while, so I might be mistaken, but last time we see Wedge in Remake is Shinra HQ and I believe the Whispers basically throw him out of the building? I remember something like that anyway?
When I first saw the Shinra news I thought that it was all faked to make it look like Avalanche had been taken out. But then I had to remember all the timeline shenanigans so now I'm not sure on anything.
But they were in an entirely different sector when that happened so that makes no sense
There's DEFINITELY something like that goin on... Aerith warned everyone that crossing over past the point of no return would change everything!
I’ve been waiting for Max’s breakdown. Didn’t disappoint! Laughing at “Cloud has become This Guy Are Sick.” 🤣 I’m looking forward to all the FF7R2 vids from the Dood in the coming months!!
So Max did not really talk about the UI much but there was something I noticed that NO one has mentioned in these breakdowns. In certain clips of combat there is a secpnd limit break bar to the right of the main limit bar. This could be confirming level 2 limit breaks. Its also possible that the 5 bars under the ATB bar are built up everytile you spend an ATB and once full you can use a synergy attack, or dual tech as people call it.
he did talk about something like this in the full stream
@@guildkin678yup. He already mentioned about the new bars during his summer fest showcase stream.
I literally mentioned exactly that over an hour ago now lol
This FF videos from Max feel like TED Talks. LOVE IT!
2:32 Simmons is based first off, and second hearing max just mention Xenoblade makes me so happy. Also the world being designed like Xenoblade makes so much sense. Even if not as expansive as the areas in those games but similar to that is how I imagine it.
Xenoblade really should be the standard for modern 3D JRPG maps. Big, but not truly "open", giving the player a feeling of exploration and discovery while gently guiding them on a linear path.
@@TheWorstPartyMember100% agreed. Of course it’ll all depend what a game’s design language calls for, but for open maps like this for instance, the Xenoblade games are a great template for that. Those games are so good at making the worlds feel alive and tangible (within the realms those games are designed for)!
I've been waiting for this. Finally got the Max breakdown. I definitely think 2 timelines makes more sense than one. Sephiroth and Aerith were both hardcore hinting that they already know what happened in the OG timeline. In fact, now I am thinking there are 3 timelines.
I agree with Max, it's definitely a 2nd timeline. I personally love that they are throwing the Laguna treatment at Zack... I'm here for this.
The 5 dashes in the ATB bar I believe is the dual tech.
If you look throughout the trailer during the combat, every time you see the combo moves, whoever is a part of the combo moves. All of those dashes are empty.
It’s especially telling in the triple attack with Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa.
So my guess is, that you have to use all of those 5 dashes for at least 2 characters to do all of these attacks that we saw in the trailer.
Could it be triple tech or quad tech? What would quad tech be like?
@@Z3ROMyth Ultra mega fuck up the opponent attacks!
Felt the same what's intriguing is how do we actually refill it
i can think of 3 scenarios
*one* is it refills itself separately from ATB
*two* we refill it by doing spesificic actions (killing enemies attacking dodging blocking using ATB abilities these are all options) but a spesificic one would be it refilling faster by doing each of those things when we have the ATB bar full
*three* instead of what two proposes it refills using just one of the aforementioned methods instead of all of them
either way seems great i was already in love with FF7-RE combat system but it's about to get even better with the "Dual Techs" and new combat stances and the upgraded ones too (hopefully the bosses also maintain and even improved quality since i loved thise games
@@DontXtheStream Well don’t forget it looks like the health and MP reset, so we’ll probably get 3 ATB bars, maybe even 4!
Yay, cutscene attacks. I like being in control of the action. Reminds me of attraction ride attacks from kingdom hearts, big flashy dumb op attacks that just play out like a cutscene and make you invincible. Hope it's more tame, I don't wanna see cutscene attacks more than 5 times total, after that it's tedious and annoying
I'm with Max on his theory about the hooded figure @31:20 in this video.
Like him, my prediction is that this is going to be in Zack's timeline. Cloud fully loses his mind and falls under Sephiroth's control. After all, we've got that tease at the start of the trailer that suggests the trade off for Zack surviving was the rest of the party dying. The thing that ultimately snapped Cloud out of his semi-comatose state in the original timeline was Zack dying.
Zack's survival in the alternate timeline apparently had a MASSIVE impact on EVERYONE!
-Cloud never snaps out of his comatose state (which granted DOES lead to his brain and memories getting scrambled in the original timeline)
-Cloud is likely far more susceptible to Sephiroth's control
-The events of FF7 as we know it still somehow occur for Tifa and the rest of the party
-Everyone dies during the highway escape when they get caught up in the tornado created by the singularity at the end of Remake
The only REAL question mark in all of this is Zack. One would assume that in an altered timeline where he survived, he could have very easily wound up in Cloud's place, especially if Tifa recognized him from the Nibelheim Incident. It's honestly not hard to imagine that sequence of events. However, his arrival in Midgar in the teaser at the end of Intergrade suggests that he's showing up AFTER the teaser at the start of the Rebirth trailer that shows everyone dead.
Now, I could assume his battle with the Shinra troops might have ended with him laid out for a few weeks, but for the sake of knowing what we're dealing with, here's how things originally go down:
The original timeline of events has Zack dying at the end of September. No exact date is given on the timeline, but it is nearly five years to the day after the events in Nibelheim. Cloud then wanders aimlessly with his memories becoming a jumbled mess of his own and Zack's before Tifa finds him in November. The events of FF7 then begin on December the 9th. Reactor 1 is blown up that night, the events of Reactor 5 occur the next morning, and the sector plate falls the evening of the 10th. The raid on the Shinra building happens the night of the 11th, and the highway escape happens in the early morning hours of the 12th.
As I said, it's easy enough to imagine Zack replacing Cloud in an alternate timeline, but I'm at a loss as to how long he might have potentially been out of commission. One would think that even if he couldn't physically get to Aerith, he'd have at least sent word that he was finally back. However, his arrival at the church at the end of Intergrade suggests that he might have been recovering the entire time and that he didn't show up there until AFTER the events of December 12th.
Zack's Last Stand at the end of Crisis Core is one of the few moments in gaming where gameplay and story segregation is clearly not happening. No matter how well you play that moment, you're eventually going to run out of resources and a ton of smaller wounds are going to eventually wear Zack down to the point where he is fatally shot. Despite actually surviving in the alternate timeline, I just can't see Zack having been laid out for over two months, and even if he was, I just cannot see him NOT attempting to reach out to Aerith before this altered chain of events really starts to get into motion.
Needless to say, I'm very curious as to how these alternate timeline events are going to play out in Rebirth.
You bring a lot of good points and I stand by you.
I'm not usually into the Zack theory of things, but I can see him going on a journey to save Cloud in the Northern Crater... WHICH would just add to my suspicion that this is where Rebirth will end. In fact, I wonder if we won't get some sort of Aerith and Zack reunion in the lifestream on Part 3 where they'll become pivotal for Cloud's recovery. I fear Tifa will be incapable of bringing him back on her own. This could work especially if Aerith ends up dying in Rebirth, they could use this way to have her back (not alive, but as a relevant character that doesn't just 'appears' through Holy at the end of the game) and Zack becomes vital outside his own timeline.
Speaking of Zack's returnal to Midgar. Something really doesn't add up. He sees, we all see, Midgar being freed of the tornado. There's no fire or smoke in his timeline. I seriously doubt that one way or another going back to Aerith wouldn't be one of his first choices. But, in intermission he's all groomed, so... What exactly happened and how long has it been seen his arrival and his journey to Sector 5 slums? And this is why I try not to think too much about his case 😆
@@Ghostlicht Interesting thing here with alt timelines and the lifestream...Could it be possible that having a situation where somebody alive in an alt timeline prevents them from existing in the lifestream? If Zack is alive in this other timeline, would he not be existing in the cloud timeline's lifestream because he's alive in some other timeline? I Know lifestream is arbitrary in terms of the flow of time as we know it, so maybe there's some interesting stuff there? idk
Man, love listening to Max talk anything Final Fantasy!
My hot take is that It isn't Sephiroth messing with Cloud, it is Jenova. The real Sephiroth doesn't actually make an appearance until North Crater when he is revived by the Black Materia. Every time Sephiroth appears, it is only as Sephiroth, because that is Jenova being a manifestation of Clouds hate/fear. Jenova is the real villain puppet-master up until Sephiroth is revived and assimilates Jenova's abilities.
That's what I've always felt. I feel you have a three tiered story playing out. Jenova VS Earth. Then you have their chosen avatars carrying out their will on the planet. They came to a stalemate in the past but now only Aerith is left to be the voice of the planet and because of Hojo Jenova has Sephiroth as she normally wouldn't be able to corrupt earthlings to that degree. So you kind of have Aerith VS Sephiroth next. Then you have Cloud who is some nobody looser, who through the power of friendship and imposter syndrome manages to act as a link between both Aerith and Sephiroth fighting on behalf of everyone else. in OG FF7 your party doesn't even get to the northern crater without Shinra. I appreciate how the protagonist are literal terrorists and the evil coorporation still has an opportunity to contribute to saving the planet.
Yeah, that's what I always thought when playing the PS version of the game.
i like to think of jenova having fully merged with sephiroth, having his will become "her" own as jenova can imitate other life forms precisely.
So, jenvova is pretending to be sephy from the future to mess with cloud in the past 🤔
Is that not literally the story of the original game? Not a hot take? Or am I missing something?
My ultimate wish would be for zack to have a separate journey with his own party after sephiroth. Have the 2 timelines meet at the forgotten city. Now my only dilemma is who the heck would be in his party. Jessie? Biggs? Soilder Grunt Cloud? They all use guns 🔫. I could definitely see Jessie being worked into a chemist character with Rikku ffx mix ability. Maybe he drags Johnny along.
I just realized that's Crispin Freeman as the newscaster in the beginning of the trailer. He voiced Rude in Advent Children, so it's great to see he got to come back to this game in some form.
If Max ever makes a lore/theory crafting channel I would watch all his videos.
Just to add:
1. you can see the location where they are riding the chocobos on the right side of the wide shot at 16:14
2. You can see the chocobo ranch on the cliff in the distance at 14:11
3. 22:24 the Radio tower is obstructing a huge structure not found in the original game
4. For a frame you can see a similar structure behind Yuffie when her and Red XIII are teaming up
4. There is another radio tower base in the shot at 25:39 although max is blocking it, and 28:52 so it must be a gameplay element
5. The same snowy mountain with the notches cut out of it is visible in the background of the scene with cloud and Barret teaming up
6. The battle against the Knack monster is only a 2 person party, while the battle against the Turks has the remaining 3 party members, which might suggest that the party will split up (sometimes) but we will still play the scenario for both (did it in part one during the Plate scenario)
7. Aerith Rides Chocobos Side-saddle style 17:47 lol
Love your breakdown, theories and enthusiasm.
My take on this multiple timeline theory is that our FF7Remake timeline has been changed into Zack's survival timeline. While our party was in the "singularity" in remake, time and space was being altered outside of it hence Zack being saved. Once our party emereged at the end of remake, they are unaware of the changes that have occured (Aerith being the exception as she may have sensed Zack's essence)
Due to the past being changed, a butterfly effect took place where we now have a paradox. There is an Avalanche in "Zacks Timeline" consisiting of who we may suspect to be wedge, jessie, biggs, barret, & tifa (cloud, red xiii and aerith are variables) but the events unfold differently for them. This version of Avalanche is who we see seemingly dead in the trailer.
Its one "altered timeline". So we have our remake party traversing this new world with Zack not far behind who is also unaware of this temporal change. Zack's timeline version of Aerith is dead but eventully will discover the remake party (our party) with Aerith alive.
Its fun to speculate isnt it😅
What if we get a Zack DLC with him teeming up with jessie, biggs, or wedge in pursuit of who knows what......
There are many variables such as Yuffie DLC and "when" or "what timeline" it took place but we need more information.
Theres so much more to this.
Its content creators like you, ray coffman, babyseal, night sky prince, final fantasy peasent and other youtubers who make this so much more entertaining. Keep up the good work🎉
Max is way behind Baby seal, Ray ofc sleepezi and many others on this stuff lol. Pez theories are another level of wild 😂
Everytime this theory is repeated from here up till babyseal himself I just dont get how you all keep stating all these things as facts. Yet in your entire paragraph. Not one claim has been backed up by an example or anything. Its all wishful interpretation. And just because its super whacky/validates the haters prejudice its a popular theory. Which weirds me out even more. The biggest FF7R fans teaming up with the biggest sceptics to back up this one wild theory.
@@mikev8746 They're just theories and speculation at the end of the day. Its perfectly fine for people to support or contest them as they wish. I havent noticed content creators such as the ones I've pointed out stating theories as fact but more so as probabilities or possibilities. Its how theory crafting works. To each their own.
@@Foreverheroz Yeah sure I get that. My point is rather that I try to follow along. But this one timeline theory doesnt really come with a clear example why its more likely. I guess I then wonder why certain people believe in it since thats all I am left with at that moment. But sure everyone can believe what they wish to believe regarding where it might be headed. I cant argue there.
You can use < and > to move forward and backwards frame by frame on youtube.
My one question about the Cloud barista thing is this. In Zacks timeline, Cloud already had been experimented on just like Zack was. So even if Cloud is a barista he would still have his powers.
Barista first class
Based off the book they released recently "Traces of Two Pasts" I'm guessing our game / opening cut scene is going to have the party arriving and being in Kalm and the game is going to open up to the flash back with Sephiroth. After that the treck to the farm and using the chocobos to cross the marsh. I feel like most, if not all, this trailer is really just showing us the first couple hours of the game. And like you pointed out, fighting Jenova departing Junon is likely really early. Probably first 10 hours easy.
For the Cosmo Canon thing, they did say the "events may be out of order. But they're all in there." So, who knows if we hit Gold Saucer right away / Dyne's plot, or not.
For the Red XIII and Barret fighting that boss I feel that is the crystal cave boss. I think what's going to happen is that the party gets split up by "reason" like we saw happen plenty in REMAKE. Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith are dealing with Rude and Ellena, while Barret and Red are dealing this "mythril cave" boss.
Thinking about the hot swapping thing you talk about, I completely agree. But, what makes me completely agree more is the fact that the producers and main scenario team also that did 7 also did X and in the last couple of years when asked what ff game they'd want to remake, similarly to 7, they said X. But it'd have to be once the remake project was completed. Well, they already confirmed its 3 parts and confirmed that part 3 was in development already alongside part 2. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if REBIRTH was testing out how hot swapping would work so that it can be brought to FFX "REMAKE".
and hitting the idea of "Tifa was hit by sephiroth how could she be alive" in Tifa's retelling of the events of "Traces of Two Pasts" she was cut by sephiroth. Had a terrible wound across her chest, was unconscious for over a month, and received skin graphs to restore the damaged area. She very much lives, and ends up almost perfectly back to normal. Honestly, more people should read this book if they're a ff7 fan, its very good and interesting.
The scene of Tifa getting slashed is straight from the OG game. The OG just glossed over a lot of the inconsistencies with Cloud's recollection of events, because they didn't actually come up with the Zack twist until later in development (a bunch of the scenes with Zack weren't even in the OG Japanese release, but were rather added for the US and International releases).
From Tifa's perspective Cloud was never in Nibelheim because he kept his helmet on in front of her, since he didn't want her to know he failed to make SOLDIER. From Cloud's perspective, he has Zack's memories and doesn't know what happened to Tifa after he left her and Zack to get revenge on Sephiroth.
Making those inconsistencies an actual plot point with Sephiroth using them to try and manipulate Cloud is just a way smarter way to handle things, especially since a lot of players know the truth, either from playing the original or CCFFVIIR.
yeah she survived due to Zangan saving her after she was left for dead, but Cloud attacked Sephiroth and tossed him into the reactor core, which is why Sephiroth would assume she just died.
This is an awesome take on the trailer Max. Great job as always… You know your stuff and it’s great to hear how you think this is gonna go.
I think when cloud goes all reunion in what I'm going to call the primary timeline with everyone alive. He'll take over his reunion counterpart in Zack's timeline. Cloud will be the key between the two timelines and possibly allow for some type of bridge.
16:48 apparently in a dev interview they stated that all the 'key moments' of FF7 will be revisted but may not be in the 'same order'. I think a example of this may be that they do the 'date' at Gold saucer when you get to gold saucer instead of on your second trip to gold saucer
For a long time I also believed that something would change with Golden Saucer. For instance, after Dyne's incident they won't have us return there for the Keystone to the temple.
But now I'm not so sure anymore because it's when we find out about Cait Sith's betrayal, the date which could be important to foreshadow Aerith's death or Cloud's past (depending on which girl we take) and the theater! Given that we know that Jessie wanted to become an actress, I'm fairly certain they'll use the theater to bring her character back into topic. But of course, these last two could fit in a first visit and we learn about Cait Sith in Rocket Town after Shinra get there. Now as to what the keystone is concerned... :D
The theory about 1 timeline is that the Party was transported to Zack's timeline when they stepped out of the singularity. They and their dead counterparts are in the same world. It has it's merits and demerits. One of the biggest one's I can think of for against it is the party exiting Midgar along the same route Zack and Cloud are entering it, seemingly at the same time. That could have also been a trick, though. It was just showing they took the same path. We don't know.
37 minutes of Max analysis! This is gonna be good. *grabs popcorn*
Imagine part of the unknown journey being the ability to explore Sectors 2-4…
And possibly fight those rumored Cobalt XI and Indigo XII or whatnot.
I think Zack will have Laguna segments, and I’m looking forward to all of it.
If there is another timeline with Zack, and Cloud is there too, he probably hasn’t recovered because if you’ve played FFVII, Cloud doesn’t regain full consciousness until he reunites with Tifa at the train station. So unless he’s met Tifa, he’s still going through mako poisoning.
There are so many possibilities. We could even have a timeline where Zack and Cloud do work together, and connect from their journeys
@@kadosho02not unless he’s met up with Tifa. I say this because when he was with Zack, Cloud was still going through mako poisoning. He was still aware that Zack died, but he was still sick afterwards, and even when he made his way to Midgar alone. He doesn’t regain full consciousness until he hears Tifa’s voice. If it wasn’t for her finding him at the train station,he would’ve still been sick.
Max. In the book they released "Final Fantasy VII Remake: Traces of Two Pasts" Explains Everything that happens to tifa from the time she got slashed by sepheroth up on till she meets Barrett, Bigs, Wedge and Jassie :). It's a great read. It also talks about aerith's past
I think 2 timelines definitely makes sense. Tho, I'm thinking everyone is not dead at the beginning but are being rescued/captured, as the reporter specifically says "search and rescue" the moment they show the group. Plus when recovering dead bodies, they usually cover the whole body with a sheet, not up to the waist.
I fully enjoy watching Max's stream about this trailer and not even notice it was 3am for me at some point, and you know I'll see it again. I can't thing of a better person to share the love to FF7 than him and sharing it with him makes the trilogy project more entertaining and enjoyable, thanks dood!
There’s so much that this game is going to have it’s insane. We’re most likely getting new materia, abilities, limit breaks, summons, weapons, new enemies and much more and it’s on 2 discs this game is going to be so much fun I need it
A lot of what happened to Tifa during the burning of Nibelheim was elaborated in the novel A Tale of Two Pasts, which is a great read by the way.
I think if the two discs are playable (which tells you the sheer size of it) then the natural break point is Nibelheim. Because from there you get to Rocket Town and the chance to go back and forth to previous locations. So Disc 2 would open up that part of the world state.
Nice thought! I can't wait to see how they get us from Rocket Town to Temple of the Ancients and then Forgotten City. Will be fun to see Tiny Bronco again
Not sure about that, since the Nibelheim environment is featured both in the Kalm flashback and later on as part of the Western continent in playable form. I think it's probably more likely that they're both just data install discs and the game is huge.
@@SuzakuX Nibelheim was also shown in FF7Re
First mission.
Max, I'm from Brazil, I was watching a video by a TH-camr from here. He has a mouse mask. He was there in the US making a video at the Mortal Kombat event and you appeared in his video. Very cool!!
What if the reason there are two discs is because you'll be going on two adventures? One disc is cloud and his group, the other disc is Zac and his group going through whatever this altered world might be.
No.
It's one disc for the game's content and the other disc is for something else, If i recall Part 1 also had 2 discs
When it comes to 2 discs, I just assume it will function like Remake did. Insert one it does a download and then the 2nd disc unlocks the rest. As for Zack, I'd wonder if it would be peppered in, an unlocked separate sequence, or finding links within Cloud's timeline to switch over to Zack's for a sequence of events like levels over full exploration.
Vid is only 40 mins but Max went on a 3.5 hour deep dive on stream basically just over this trailer lol
for swapping members i believe its the small bar right beside the limit guage
My theory is that Max was hired by SE to partially explain the story.
SE realized they needed to do something "new", but at the same time, they are not going to be able to explain this timeline sheet to the average player.
P.S Max GJ with FF16 battle demo, that was just epic. So happy to see you there with the devs.
I actually 100% agree with this lol. He's the guy who calms the storm with overtly rational takes on everything to lead the player base.
If the writers need somebody to explain their story to people, they’re shite writers. Respectfully.
He was paid to "leak" the Rebirth subtitle. That is absolutely the only possible explanation.
I'm curious to see how they would adapt the following:
Chocobo racing
Chocobo breeding
Master Materia
Weapon Fights
Knights of the Round
Submarine exploration
5:10 am I the only that flipped getting to see the Highwind up there???? That’s basically a character reveal and no one is talking about it! I WAS SQUEALING IN AN ULTRA EXCITED ALIEN LANGUAGE SEEING THE HIGHWIND!
Can't wait for Aerith and the gang to ride it!
Wow, im really impressed you noticed all these small things just from the trailer especially the fact that you can have back up characters in the background and can be called forth to battle when swapping is needed. Thats something I miss from FF10 days.
Didn’t the devs say we won’t be visiting every place in the exact same order as og FFVII?
At 35:24 Max says that "a snippet of Zack's timeline where Cloud is Ramon, or Pablo..."
What a missed opportunity to call Cloud Ramirez!
I still can’t believe ppl like Max are complaining about 1080p, like bro, I lived in a time where I was grateful to have things at like 480p and somewhat intelligible. 1080p is more than enough for me, idk, maybe I’m just old.
Trailer looks fantastic/ beautiful. Also the Unknown Journey has me highly intrigued.
I hope in this new entrance, the aerial game still the path of improvement that it has shown Intermission, and even further.
Cloud, Yuffie, Tiffa and all the other party members who can perform aerial combos should be able to do them whenever we want and not just with aerial enemies.
Sadly in Remake this great ability has been sorely underutilized. In fact, of all of them, Cloud is the one who can have the most incredible aerial battles. For that reason he in particular is the one who hurts me the most. Just look at Advent Children.
One interesting thing is also when Sephiroth ominously describes Jenova.
"She can become those you hate, those you fear, those you love"
"Those you love"...Like Aerith.
Remember how Aerith said "Don't fall in love with me"?
Maybe (BIG maybe) Jenova will fuck with Clouds mind, make him think he's fighting her, the brain fog lists and it reveals Cloud is the one to kill Aerith this time around.
He is saying that to prime cloud for doubting tifa, it has nothing to do with aerith
Nah. Sephiroth is literally planting the idea in Cloud’s head that Tifa is perhaps an illusion by Jenova
@@MrInuhanyou123 It could be both.
I've been waiting for this. 40 mins of max talking about the recent rebirth trailer? I'm gonna say YES 😬👏👏👏
I'm honestly not convinced by the concept of 'timelines' in a semantic sense. When we think of timelines, we think of at least two split flows of time where a decision or multiple decisions were made to change events tangibly. I don't think that's what's happening here.
The events of the FF7R have been bothering me because I don't think we have EVER been in the 'original' FF7 at all. The Watchmen of Fate were not infallible, they were reactive. When Wedge survived they worked to chenge that, when Cloud saw Deepground they pushed them out of the lab, when Barrett was shot they worked to restore him. The Watchmen have not been in 'control' of this remake timeline ever, because if they were, these discrepancies wouldn't have been allowed to happen in the first place.
Rather, what I think is happening, is that these incompatible events are happening in the same space. The 'timelines' are actually layers of existence overlapping with one another, and they're overlapping because the Lifestream is completely fucked up and has possibly stagnated around the events of FF7. It would explain why Sephiroth is so keen to create a fate where he isn't necessarily destined to lose, and it would also explain how Aerith from the OG was able to slip into the Remake plane of existence to stop him. It's Lifestream manipulation and both of them are doing it.
So, rather than 'FF7' and 'Zack' timeline, I think that both of these are 'Possibilities' that chronologically occur AFTER the original FF7. They're corrupted Lifestream vomit converging on top of each other due to Sephi-shenanigans.
A sound theory! It's sephy intentionally going back and trying to redo his plan because he lost for good in advent children. He is immortal being connected to lifestream so him going back in time through the planets cycle makes perfect sense
It is two time lines. That is clear as day at this point.
Commenting and waiting to see if this theory checks out. Totally sound!
Correct, this isn’t the OGFF7 it’s another entry to the compilation. Fans of this game tend to love the compilation while others like myself dislike many aspects of it because we love OG7 only and don’t care at all for the compilation additions.
Two planes of existence makes sense as well. FFII did that with Hell and Heaven. Even in Compilations especially Advent Children, it's weird seeing Zack and Aerith interacted with Cloud like they're still alive. Then Cloud saw them in the same church as him at the end.
Its always hype whenever Max gets to talk about FF7!
Wonder if they are going to implement/flesh out more of Sephiroth's backstory.
Like they are doing with Ever Crisis
Plus the new voice cast, adds something unique to the journey. I definitely believe we will learn more about Seph, and the crossover between timelines in conflict with one another
What more do we really need to know? How he gets his hair so soft? What he eats for breakfast? I mean, they probably will flesh out his story more but it's really not needed.
@@Alcogod hey you need to chill, they just suggested a topic. No need to be a smart aleck.
I didn't read all comments but speaking in PHS during what seems that same fight with different characters the small tiny bar under the at bar when it's different characters seems to change. I think either it tells the number of times you can switch party members or if it's full is when you can change a member out. If your not sure what I'm talking about it's below the atb and the limit gauge. There 4 small tally's or 4 small bars
I have a funny feeling Tifa is Max's favorite Final Fantasy character
She's mine too.
As soon as I opened up TH-cam and saw Max's video about FF7, instantly click lol. Enjoyed every last bit of the video. Talks like this is what makes me pump about Rebirth. 7-8months away. I cannot wait.
A VERY curious thing about the party being 'Dead' at the beginning. Is at the end of the first game, Zack was carrying Cloud toward Midgard. Cloud was/is with Zack. So, for the rest of the party to witness the Singularity and 'Die' from it, and Cloud was not with them(he was being carried back to Midgard by Zack), WHO was with the party, if not Cloud?
I'm thinking they lost the final fight because Cloud wasn't with the party.
More Max, more!! Ya need to stream everyday on this!
So what I’m taking from the trailer is that in Zacks timeline, neither him or cloud joined avalanche because Tifa doesn’t know zack really and cloud is MIA, and thus barrets group failed in bombing the reactors at some point and died.
Also, is Sephiroth alluding to killing tifa in the new or maybe a different timeline? Or is that misdirection of his actions from the OG ff7 and he’s calling Aerith an imposter. 🧐 can’t wait to find out
in the japanese trailer he says "I killed Tifa. Who is she?" the way he says it implies he thought she was dead after he hurt her in nibelheim. I mean he never had time to confirm the kill, since right after he got killed by Cloud.
@@sabrinas.79 ahh thanks for that input I had no idea. It still seems like they are heavily playing on tifa being an imposter of some sort (jenova spawn) which is very interesting to me. I feel like there is some major misdirection happening still
Both FF7 Remake and FF16 have loading times in the 3-6 second range.
The elevator in Junon, the gondola in the Golden Saucer, or even the winding climb to Cosmo Canyon would be more than enough to hide the loading.
There's 3 timelines.
OG Ff7, then there's Zacks timeline and finally the timeline for Rebirth but... There might be a 4th revealed in part 3.
The reunion vision isn't just showing cloud, if you listen its actually young cloud. This could mean alot of things.
What's weird about Zack's timeline is that he seems to have been brought to the future too. The dead party we see at the beginning looks like "present time" age.
That's what I thought too. But Zack could be on the run from Shinra taking Cloud with him prior to him going to the church for 5 Years. Probably he doesn't want to come back right away because Shinra is on his Tail and not bring it to Aerith. But he has a good reason to come back now because of the whispers tornado. Idk, i might be reaching.
Zack getting gunned down took place shortly before OG FF7, so he possibly was pulled forward 2 months or laid low for that long.
@@zerofudou5689 It's also possible that Sephiroth was messing with Zack's timeline the whole game, and engineered events so that Zack would arrive several months late, causing the rest of the party to fail without Cloud's help.
According to all of the official information we have on the timeline of FF7, the time between Zack's death and the opening of FF7 is just a couple of months. Zack's final stand is in the end of September 0007. We don't know exactly when Cloud is found by Tifa in Sector 7 but it's sometime between that and very early December. The bombing of Reactor 1 is on December 9, 0007. The entire month of December also covers everything until Aerith's death. I think Zack isn't "brought over to the future" because it could very well be that the party haven't even met each other, aside from Barret and Tifa. Red XIII and Aerith are shown separately. I have a feeling that it's immediately after Zack's "final stand".
@@DevilHunter1994 This is most likely. If Zack's return is delayed then Shinra's military forces would be spread thin dealing with Avalanche so he'd have a better chance of surviving. And then in his timeline you'd have the party fail without Cloud there to bolster their strength, but they'd still probably make it that far since for example Tifa would have fallen from Mako Reactor 5 into Aerith's church.
It makes me wonder how far Rebirth will go.
If Disc 1 / 2 are essentially a two parter, this is probably my best guess as to how it'll go.
DISC 1 - 14 Main locations (some have been combined)
1. Kalm (Flashback tutorial)
2. Chocobo Farm (With Midgar Serpent boss)
3. Mythril Mines
4. Fort Condor? (Depends if it's optional or not)
Between 4 and 5: Yuffie.
5. Junon
6. Cargo Ship
7. Costa Del Sol
8. Mt Corel
9. I CANT WAIT FOR THE GOLD SAUCER! (and Cait Sith)
10. Corel Prison
11. Me? Gongaga.
12. Cosmo Canyon and Caves of Gi
13. Nibelheim/Manor (and Vincent)
14. Nibelheim Reactor (END OF DISC 1)
DISC 2 - 8 Main Locations (With some mixed)
15. Rocket Town (and Cid)
16. Wutai Part 1 maybe? (Going from the Machinimabridged version where Yuffie steals the materia)
17. WE'RE GOING BACK TO THE GOLD SAUCER!
18. Temple of the Ancients
19. Bone Village
20. City of the Ancients (and possibly Aerith's death)
21. Snow fields (Icicle Inn and Great Glacier)
22. Northern Crater (END OF DISC 2)
Northern Crater and Snowfields I mixed as they made sense to consider as one giant level each. Not an even scale but it makes the more sense.
I dont think everybody is dead from the vision. When youre dead the put a sheet over your whole body
Good point
Maximilian Dood, AKA the walking FFVII encyclopedia!!!
I think the reason Yuffie is on the ship is because she steals the groups materia, and they track her down to the ship.
My guess is they probably corner her and then Jenovaroth shows up.
I was waiting this video more than the game itself.
Max keeps missing the boat with Yuffie 🫤 she isn't a side character anymore. She's going to get the same narrative focus as Barret, Red and Cid that also applies to Vincent.
She was clutching her head before freaking out, Jenova showed her something likely related to Nero or Sonon. Her confidence was broken at the end of intermission, She acknowledged that she couldn't handle things by herself and needed help. People are hanging on to the materia theft from the original game which was probably the most polarising section of the original and straight up wouldn't work in hard mode.
Yuffie has the Nero conflict which will lead to her teaming with Vincent dealing with Deepground. War is potentially restarting in Wutai thanks to Scarlett and Heidigger, Yuffie has a heck of a lot on her plate already. Square are going ham making up for what they couldn't do the first time round with her all of these party members are going to feast narratively.
I firmly believe every character will have an arc, including Vincent and Cid. She had a DLC for a reason. Every party member is gonna have a story purpose, and after so much time on the trilogy, each character will have a specific ability that differentiates them like FF6. OG FF7's biggest problem was a lack of differentiation between characters. FF7 remedied this. The sequels will continue this
@@dempseywilliams1828 Yea the conflict between Cloud a d Sephiroth is ofc the main focus but this is a beloved group of characters who the fanbase wants to see more from. Square are going all out to flesh out our party which will make the big story beats so much more impactful.
I'm thinking Vincent will have his own story as an add-on, kind of like how Yuffie did for part one (considering that they were both optional characters in the original game). Probably a back story of what happened to him to help introduce him to the remake's story. Maybe it will have some elements reminiscent of Dirge of Ceberus.
Agreed. It would make so much sense to do Episode Yuffie and Episode Vincent as DLC add-ons with their own Remake version of DC.
I'm thinking the final DLC episode, for Part III, could also resolve the Genesis cliffhanger from the end of DC. Maybe Episode Zack?
@SuzakuX I'm thinking of an Advent Children story, play the events from the film.
Prediction: The Midgar Zolum will be an environmental threat. It will be something you have to run from as it absolutely trashes the marsh as you balls our run through the marsh. You won't fight it, it will be one of those 'if it catches you, you die' kind of threats. It'll make it all the more indimidating when Sephiroth offs it a minute later.
I'm all up for that!
as long as we can fight one at some point in the game and win, then id be fine with that.
@@saphcal How else would you learn Beta!?
It would be pretty cool if they manage to not show us any of Vincent before release, and make him optional (he turns you down when you offer for him to come along and you have to talk to him again like in the original.) They could still add him later on if you miss him. One way would be to have him leave the group at the end of Rebirth for some angsty brooding and when he shows up in part 3 the "so you decided to come along" line works either way.
but I think it would be cool to still have him be optional. Its not like new players wouldn't find out and get to go back and play it again like we did with the og.
If Aerith is dead in Zacks timeline, how will Holy be summoned? He might be trapped in a doomed timeline. Curious to see where they go with this.
If memory serves, isn’t it the planet that saves itself? Thought Jenova delayed the summoning of Holy causing it to be late to protect from meteor but the planet ended up protecting itself
@@ben1805because aerith summoned holy
Holy failed in the original, as it was the planet that came in to fully stop the meteor
Zack: Fine. I'll do it myself.
Cue Zack in a muscle car flying at the meteor yelling "FAMILY" as it then explodes.
This is the breakdown I’ve been waiting for.
22:13 Tsengfus Shinra: "Shadows of the Man, I believe he called them. "
Me: "..Fascinating."
I don't think it's the Cave of the Gaea's, Red would be a fixed member of the party if that were the case. Great video. Excitement is ramping up!
I think the game will go as far as the Temple of the A.
17:33 You can tell at this point in the video that the developers intentionally pointed the camera in the direction to the right.
I believe that those 2 logs laying down are climbable!
Just finished making dinner about to grub and the notification drops, perfect timing Max🤙🏼
Just an observation: Zack isn't influenced by Jenova cells.
When you visit the library in the basement of Shinra's mansion, there is a report, divided into 4 parts, that talks about Zack and Cloud's escape. I'll put text over the second report:
"Escapee Report no. 2 Description of the time of capture. A Former member of SOLDIER/Number ( ) No effect could be detected from either Mako Radiation Therapy or Jenova on him. B Regular/Number ( ) Reaction to Jenova detected."
That is, Zack's body did not react with the Mako radiation or the Jenova cells. On the other hand, there was reaction from Cloud.
So, this can point to why we see Cloud as member of the reunion (wearing the black cloak) in the Northern Cave * in Zack's timeline *.