FF7 released in 1997 and now we are in the year 2024 and we are STILL learning about this game. This is part of why it's my #1 game of all time. Awesome video!
It's amazing how packed with detail the story was. So many modern games are kind of just following a map marker with no purpose, but FF7 had so many story points pulling you forward from place to place. I remember not being able to put it down. I needed to see what happened next. I haven't felt that way since the PS1 days.
to be fair, for him to point that out signifies that he's grown wise to that by studying his own faults and rectifying them... Further solidifying his theories in relation to Gaia and the Lifestream to be more accurate, takes a wise soul to look within and fix such faults in their own character... looking up is a distraction that takes our Focus away from the perspective of truth, especially with the visions that the Ancients/Cetra and Sephiroth are clearly capable of Inducing... Proof of this is in the OG FF7 when you enter the North Crater at the end of the game when Sephiroth separates the team from each other, that's just off the top of my head... not to mention Clouds altered Memories, of course
Really excellent video, dude. I'm now very keen to see how the Time Guardian is presented in Rebirth. You've presented a few great arguments that I haven't seen elsewhere. Compelling stuff.
Thank you MJ!! I watched your entire chapter by chapter breakdown a whilw back of Remake where you talked about the compilation elements. Great stuff and of course I've seen your massive contributions during the seal team 7 podcasts. Im so glad this video reached you and thank you for checking it out. Sorry i forgot to shout you out during my intro sir!
@@off-meta-michael don't be silly, I would never have expected a shout out. I'm very grateful for your kind comments. I look forward to anything else you might have cooking for Rebirth.
@@RyanJones-nh3mu hey, tha ks for reaching out. yes i will. I have lots of other things im working on and some people have only just finished Rebirth as it is, but i will do a video for it for sure. Thanks
I don’t know how this video appeared in my recommendation but this was really well done! Keep up the good work, King! As a huge FF7 fan, I can’t wait for Rebirth to come out next month.
While I've only completed the OG and half of the remake, I can't shake the feeling how close these parallels you presented offer the clarity to what could be the plot. It's right under our noses! It hadn't occurred to me that the Remake could be a FF version of "What if...??" Until Rebirth is released we won't know for sure, but the evidence is certainly evident here.
Your video is awesome, and to elaborate on your theory as to what Zack's role is in this: I think Zack's reality is what Sephiroth will try to lure Cloud with. Think about it .. In this reality, both Aerith and Zack are alive. He gets to escape the pain of losing both of them while living there. What if .. at the end of Rebirth Cloud witnesses Aerith's death, but his consciousness is whisked away and wakes up in Zack's reality? He'll have to make the tough choice of living in a reality where his guilt is assuaged because two of his friends are alive but everything else goes to hell in a hand basket or he goes back to the main reality where Zack and Aerith are dead to save the planet and all those on it. Remember, there's a part of the OG game where Cloud is missing, and even after he's found, he's in the same condition as the Cloud we see in Zack's reality. All this can happen without necessarily changing the main story. Food for thought! Thank you!!~Ben
I've been saying it's the prequel and will lead to a version of Cloud Kadajing himself into the "Sephiroth" we find in Midgar and up to actually freeing him.
OMG this video was SO DAMN GOOD. I am in the middle of replaying OG in full for the first time since 2019 (played it in prep for Remake) and I've also been catching a lot of similar things about traces of these Remake ideas in the OG that I simply overlooked. I was especially fascinated by that same Bugenhagen scene about fate. And for a couple of years now, I've also been OBSESSED with that scene at the Temple of the Ancients with Sephiroth talking about creating the future. But you really illuminated something for me with your thoughts on Sephiroth's potential endgame and the idea of a stagnant reality. I have also been wondering about the Time Guardian in Temple of the Ancients. It is a pretty compelling precedent for some kind of time altering mechanic, but I never considered it being a piece of Ancient technology that is no longer operational. It reminds me of something I saw on Twitter yesterday. Apparently there is a scene in Dirge -- I believe aboard the Highwind -- where one of the NPC mechanics says this if you talk to them: "To tell you the truth, the ship is not even from this era. It is a relic from a lost civilization." More precedence for Ancient technology? Also, really nice find about the original idea of the clones being some kind of floating figures in black robes. In the end, it made more sense for them to have more of the corporeal form that they have since they are meant to be clones/copies of Sephiroth, but it's still an interesting discovery about how they're repurposing some original concepts. And, as you noted, Sleepezi has talked about the connection between Jenova and the Whispers before as well. Really, really excellent video and you inspired some new thoughts in me for sure. It'll really be helpful as I continue to replay the original ahead of Rebirth (just reached Aerith's death).
DUDE, thank you so much for this response. I was HOPING that other content creators would chime in and give this a listen. You just made my day. Super appreciative. My channel is geared towards diablo 2 content so i knew it would be hard to get some legs on this video, but thank you for giving me a sign that the people who are deep into the lore are watching. Thank you!
@@SubTXT_ thank you so much for sharing it. Before you commented, the video only had like 50 views or something. So thanks again man. Nobody would have saw it had you not taken the time to help out.
Time travel in FF7 Remake seems to work the same way it does in Attack on Titan in my opinion. People don't literally travel in time, it's more like the past, present and future all exist at a single predestined coordinate in time, and certain people have the ability to send their memories backwards and forwards to past/future versions of themselves to influence the outcome of the final timeline.
If it weren't for Aerith already knowing things like Cloud's a merc or that Tifa wanted her to get Marlene out of the bar without them saying a word to her beforehand and Sephiroth trying to keep Cloud from meeting Aerith, I wouldn't know what to think. But everything she knows has precedence and Seph was making calculated, pre-planned moves so it's hard for me to not write this off as a sequel. Other than that, VERY interesting stuff👏🏻
I totally hear ya. I will be discussing this exact thing in my 3rd theory video soon to offer some other perspectives. Currently only this one and the Stagnant Reality video (as of today) are out
I think the 'sequels' all take place in the 7 seconds Cloud and Seph are facing each other in the Northern Crater. A battle of Wills before the final Omnislash. Great vid.
Thanks I have two more theory vids on the channel that relate to this. I could rephrase and say the "sequel" is in the Remake trilogy itself as you are somewhat suggesting. If you watch those youll see what i mean. Thanks for checking it out
It's neat to see some of the details tossed out there, but considering it's the same guy doing the remake as made the OG FF7, my headcanon has always been that he's now getting to flesh out the story and characters in ways that technology would not let him in 1997. While FF7 was trailblazing in a number of ways at its time, there's no way you can go through all the details you would have liked, be it for graphical, coherent or storage reasons. He's far less restricted now on the PS5 platform, so he gets to go through all the details he always had/wanted for the story. I don't really get anyone throwing a fit over this, it's literally his story, he can do what he wants with it, and this is possibly what he always envisioned, too.
Yea, the devs have said as much as well, but its not just that. They have said that the compilation of ff7 is also being incorporated into the remake in many ways because it also is canon. Further, they have said that they wanted to add new elements to the remake in order to make it interesting for themselves to create. I totally get this because if you're a creator and you're not excited about the project then its gonna be a drag to make. So there are definitely new elements that were not just old ideas being implemented. The stamp logo and zack's role, for example, are massive additions. in my video i am trying to prepare people for the possibility of either an actual Remake or Sequel by showing with evidence how the OG allows for this kind of story telling within its lore. I think the devs have precedence since they are the original creators but also because the world of ff7 they created shows how their additions make sense. As you said, you're not sure why people are put off by the OG creators adding to it, and i would agree, but ive seen a lot of comments from who people are very disgruntled nonetheless about these additions, and i was hoping to alleviate some of this tension while making people excited for either possibility.
Dude, this is the one!! So frustrating hearing people say their “favorite game” has been ruined by concepts that were there the whole time lol. Great video man I’m subscribed👍🏼
I’ve been thinking a lot of this for a while but the way you put it all together is phenomenal. That part from the wiki about whispers being parts of jenova, basically floating robes, is huge!! Amazing
AFTER ALL THESE FREAKING YEARS! This, This makes sense! I love it! Great Hypothesis! getting on OG right now and replaying. Thanks for the inspiration! *Thumbs Up and Subscribed!*
Outstanding! I never would have put these pieces together but it does make a lot of sense. We need to be mindful that their story telling abilities were very limited by the technology of the day. It makes sense to me that now there getting to tell the story they wish they could have, and probably even expand on it quite a bit. I’m here for it.
THANK YOU everyone for liking, commenting, and subscribing. The ff7 community really showed up and pulled me in. Thank you for giving me a chance and making me a part of this. I am floored and absolutely blown away how well this video was received. I spent many many hours working on it. To be accepted like this; being my genuine self on a topic i love is unbelievably gratifying. The next video is already in the works to follow up with this one and we are so close to Rebirth. Thank you all!
I have always thought this game was a sequel but as you argued it could really be either a sequel or a remake and to me that is kind of beautiful. This is a great video loved how you presented it and pulled resources and your depth of knowledge on everything. It reminded me of an english professor breaking down a story to the class. I have always thought time travel was heavily involved because as you said there is a precedent. It just seems some of those elements, like the whispers, were cut or diminished in OG FF7 but to be fair I am sure tons of things were. I honestly think Sephiroth has time traveled and the lifestream is the key to doing so. I think Aerith and Zack will in turn do the same in the background to support Cloud and company who are doing the direct engagement with him, and most likely aid in the final blow. While I think it is interesting this idea of a stagnant world idk if I am completely on board. To nerd out a bit I see parallels a bit with Marvel Secret War 2016 where Dr. Doom creates his own new universe outside of the multiverse using broken realities to save, and rule over, everyone eternally. Could this be what Sephiroth is doing with the knowledge he has gained, creating broken stagnate worlds outside of time and fate and the plans to bring them all together in a reunion where he is an eternal god? Would be on brand for Final Fantasy but I think it might be a little more sinister. I have been working on my “Final” theory but want to wait until the final trailer is out to finish it off and articulate it but the short is I think Sephiroth is continuing the Jenova legacy, and they are more than just world destroyers. I think they essentially infect the life stream of planets and in turn become the life stream of the planet and imprison all the souls within them so the planet cannot continue the natural course of death and rebirth. They then in turn move on to the next world essentially to add more inmates to their eternal soul prison. I guess you could say this prison is the stagnant world you mentioned so I might just be saying the same thing in a different way. Either way I loved the theory. hope to share more theories and discussions with you in the future for Rebirth and beyond!
Hey thanks for taking the time to write this comment. Im flattered by the english/lit teacher comparison. You mentioned your own theory "final" theory youve been working on? Id be interested to check it out. Thanks man
Thanks for the shoutout!! And great video man, I agree with all of this, it’s all in the original and we are getting the true vision and definitive version of FF7 finally!!
@@off-meta-michael my pleasure, great work with this and please continue making content if you enjoy it, that “I will create the future” line has been the subject of much discussion when I replayed the OG too, fascinating!
I think the only feedback right now in FF7 Remake Trilogy is the Info-dump and the spoon feeding of every information we need. But all those information is still not enough and still needs to be interpreted. I've watched Max, NSP, Blitzz, Sleepezi, BabySeal and other youtubers out there and I'm on the "This game is a Remake and not a Sequel" or some other say "Requel". I knew about the Temple of Ancients dialogues and scenes and I think that's where it should explain everything. Everything happened in the Remake do not moved away on what the OG FF7's story really is. It's just expounded and just like you said, an amalgamation to the whole compilation. Zack is only there to not impact the story but to explain how FF7 world works, primarily how Lifestream really works. BTW, Great Video and looking forward to your other theory crafting videos!
So there's something called Stagnant Lifestream in Dirge of Cerberus where there are some connections between that and corrupt/Jenova/Sephiroth influence. And we see Sephiroth use this stagnant lifestream (if I recall) in AC, and when Geostigma was introduced. And if all that is true, then it makes sense for Sephiroth to want to create a third 'lifestream' so to speak that is destitute of life and death, and it's merely an empty void where only he (and likely Cloud) will exist. Almost gives me Dr. Strange vibes where he is consumed with wanting to alter time to the point where he destroys everything and is left alone in the eternal void. It doesn't seem like Sephiroth's goal is to destroy everything just for the sake of destruction, like say Kefka. He would exist, but outside reality. The more we learn about Sephiroth, the more somber his goal seems to be. Not so much evil, but more poignant. ...so basically Sephiroth wants to fight Cloud for all eternity. What a selfish boyfriend (just kidding) Great theory! Beautifully explained and crafted. Looking forward to more as we delve deeper into Rebirth!
Thanks for that info. That's pretty huge for what im talking about here. This is how i see Zack's reality being necessary in conjunction with Sephiroth's line: "but i....will not end."
Finally someone worthy to have a conversation with. Yes, you get it. The Sephiroth at the end of remake is from the far future and has seen the end of the planet but was unable to do anything to stop it far after the events of FF7 because he had no body. That's what I think.
This is a phenomenal video. Thank you for making this, I really enjoyed it. Your introduction about the game, fandom and content creation may as well have been about me! This is an amazing community. Keep up the good work.
What an amazing video! It prompted me to restart OG FF7 and read and actually try to comprehend the info dump at The Temple of the Ancients, though I'm only up to Junon at the moment. Hahaha!
In the first novella written for the OG... Aerith's perspective introduces that in the LifeStream, going back and forth through time is like going up or down. It could slow down to a halt, and speed up to see centuries fly by. The Ultimania says that Sephiroth has stopped time 7 seconds from the planet's death, and is manipulating it's memories in the LifeStream...effectively altering the past. The key art always depicted him with four whispers. There are exactly four whispers that act against whatever the other whispers are doing. One of them that speaks to Cloud does so in Sephiroth's voice.
all excellent info. im curious though if there is an actual quote stating that sephiroth is manipulating memories in the lifestream. i dont recall hearing about that directly from the devs. although of course i think that's pretty much what he's trying to do...
On the clock, consider this. In the entire compilation including remake, we have hexagons on everything. Art, menus, HUD, everything in every post-OG title, and these represent genetic memory. In rebirth, the menus have all changed. The main menu during gameplay shows the temple of the ancients. The HUD shows clocks. The themes have completely changed, now that we are no longer bound to the past. Also, a fun one.... Nomura was at some point questioned about the many incarnations of the Nibelheim incident, including last order and crisis core which developed around the same time and still changed a critical moment. His response was did the final outcome change? Memories are fickle and fleeting, but the outcome (destiny) never changes. In each one, we are meant to take away one thing, Sephiroth doesn't die and is alive when given the black materia. But...in remake, he doesn't deny it, in fact he calls it a crowning achievement. He focuses and forces Cloud to remember him. To let the hate grow as he manifests himself more and more. In the Sephiroth fight, the song is unfamiliar but as you progress, it continues to get more and more familiar, until it becomes a mix of every song to recall everything... In the books, after he was killed in the OG he had to struggle to reclaim the memories he threw away to enhance meteor, to fully embrace mother. Furthermore, Sephiroth seems to be pushing away from mother. Jenova can fly without wings, as can the puppets holding her. Sephiroth, Angeal, Genesis, all needed their wings. In remake, Sephiroth jumps in battle but doesn't fly until revealing his wing. Jenova speaks little as Jenova-Roth. Tells Cloud not to deny her. Compliments the reunion, doesn't mention Cloud's name. Doesn't know or really care who he is beyond the puppet Cloud has always been to her. In crisis core, all three of the winged friends succumbed. Genesis compelled to murder as he tried to find his cure. Angeal eventually unable to resist any further craves an honorable death. And Sephiroth came to get mother... Then, became her.
Thank You So Much for this! It is my dearest hope that this isn't a sequel but that it is an actual remake but certain characters like aerith and Sephiroth can see future possibilities
You're welcome! but as i said in the video i think it could be either with the information we have. Im not gonna be disappointed if it is a sequel. However, my own personal sense is that it doesn't seem like sequel is the direction, because the entire story would basically boil down to Sephiroth being like, "okay ive got one chance now that the arbiter is gone to change some stuff to see if i win this time, ill do everything else exactly the same though and watch that all play out how i remember it." It just doesn't seem like that's what is happening. Even with Aerith, who knows more than she lets on, has moments where she has no clue what's going on. I can't confidently say it's a sequel where Aerith and Sephiroth have gone back for new game+ because of these things. And furthermore, ff7 has a main character. Its Cloud. And in a sequel time travel story in this manner it would seem redundant to have Cloud go through his character arc again while having the cosmic time travel battle between Aerith and Sephiroth be the actual main thing. The only thing i can think of currently would be that Cloud becomes aware of these things sometime around Temple of the Ancients or Mideel, "remembers" his Advent Children fight with Sephiroth and everything really takes a big turn for his persona, while also adding the sequel context around the weapons, the whispers, and meteor. The thing is, you dont need it to be a sequel even if this is the case, so im back to square one haha.
Fun fact: “Fate, Monstrous and empty,” or in Latin: Sors Immanis Et inanus , is most likely a direct pull from the “O Fortuna,” which has the exact same line. From wikipedia: "O Fortuna" is a medieval Latin Goliardic poem which is part of the collection known as the Carmina Burana, written early in the 13th century. It is a complaint about Fortuna, the inexorable fate that rules both gods and mortals in Roman and Greek mythology.
29:51 great great discussion here! Love this background on the whispers. I tend to think that the whispers are corrupted (by Jenova) arbiters of fate. I think it’s just an added unreliable narrator- the planet
Yea, and someone just pointed out to me that the whispers dont seem to think sephiroth is ever the problem. Could just be he's working under their radar and orchestrating us to get their attention though.
@@off-meta-michael I think it’s possible that during remake they are become active to defend against Sephiroth. And in the end of remake, he uses the party to defeat them? And possibly in rebirth, Jenova and he fully control them? It could go a lot of different ways
Amazing video! I also thought back to Temple of the Ancients when Whispers appeared in the Remake. And 'Cries of the Planet.' They kinda felt like the expanded versions of the same idea!
Excellent video. Spotlighting the Temple Of The Ancients is HUGE. In "Rebirth" there are no time guardians.....You meet the spirits of the Cetra which is a massive difference from the original and it kind of makes you wonder why the guardians are absent. Also, the addition of the Gi Spector sub plot with the black materia opens up a whole can of worms for the white and black whispers. What if, and just spit-balling this one, the white whispers are the cetra and the black are a combination of the Gi Spectors as well as part of Sephiroth during his hibernation within the Northern Crater? And what if, Aeith's death is a "fixed event" but this time, her death is a noble sacrifice for the greater good of the Planet and to ultimately defeat Sephiroth? However it shakes out, the next game is bound to have players white knuckling to the conclusion.
Great vid, just a thought. When Sephiroth says "but I will not end, nor will I have you end," he is looking at the universe that is in the shape of the yellow flower. The way he says it does not seem he is referring to cloud since he doesn't end in the game. He may be referring to planet as the flower represents that, Aerith since she is also connected to it, or Omega from Dirge of Cerberus since he carries the life from one dying planet to another. They put all this effort in creating that scene for the audience who know the story.
It was confirmed that the nebula behind Cloud represents Destruction and the one behind Sephiroth represents Creation. Cloud is Destruction and Sephiroth is Creation.
Ah yea that's a good point, that he's kind of ignoring Cloud there and just infatuated by his plan to create his own reality/future. A counter to this though is the idea that sephiroth needs Cloud to hold onto his "hatred" in order to keep sephiroth in his mind at all times so he can keep appearing and manipulating
@@mrplayfulshade yea i remember that as well. I think this fits well with the idea that sephiroth thinks he can save the planet while Cloud will only postpone the inevitable end by defeating Sephiroth.
Your video confirmed some of the thoughts I had. It's well made and thoroughly researched. It's been awhile since playing OG FF7, I might start playing it again this weekend looking for other clues muffled away by the devs. I watch a lot of other content creators for the new trilogy, but you're the first that I subscribed to. Keep on making this kind of videos.
Thanks man. I have another video in the works. I also make d2 content so if you see a bunch of those just know that the ff7 video will come out eventually still. Thanks for the sub!
A thought that's been running through my head since Remake and the whispers seemingly being so inline with letting the "current" Sephiroth continue unimpeded, keeping Destiny on the same track to OG's end (humans extinct 500 years in the future) is that what if Jenova, this so called "calamity" from the heavens is actually a part of the natural cycle? Part of the larger planetary level lifestream system that was meant to give life, death, and rebirth on the cosmological scale? Things could have just ended up really wonky due to human experimentation causing essences of Jenova to be paired with a conscious being--Sephiroth--which allowed his spirit to defy the consciousness merging with the lifestream and creating this hybrid force that is seemingly defying the rules (and maybe fully believing he is), but I almost wonder if it is ALL part of the capital D destiny, but not just of the force of the planet, but of the cosmos. That in the end, Sephiroth will be faced with the knowledge that it was all part of a bigger plan and his comeuppance will be a knock on any notions of Godhood that his ego has created through this process. I can't wait to see where they are going with the story!!
Having my Sunday afternoon coffee and finished this video. Awesome explanation and research, and very well done! Thanks for this! I'll have this on my mind during Rebirth. Enjoy your playthrough!
The unsurety that follows next will be amazing no matter the outcome. I really like your points and thankful for your elabaration. It would be insane to think these lines have no meaning and agree that there is something more to them.
Dude, im on board. I love that the unrelable narrator is still intact with this adaptation. We dont fully know the story even though we the OG inside and out, and to me, this is genius. We'll see how it all pans out of course when the trilogy is done, but im not gonna forget the years of intrigue and speculation that it created. Its been a blast ao far.
Nice video. I've seen you swap ideas on other videos for a while now and glad to see you taking the "next step". I played the OG when it came out, played it about as much as you have, and still forgot some of these points. This is why I think they went with "Remake" on a practical level - to bring the franchise's fan base back to page 1 after 20+ years of complilation entries that have frankly confused a few things along the way. I think even if you're right there's a big risk of a sloppy telling going forward though. Time "travel" in terms of seeing the past is one thing, manipulating it is another which opens up never-ending story entries and offshoots. The stagnant world theory is great though - sort of a purgatory, where Jessie's dad is.
When considering why we would need another timeline/reality, i really couldn't come up with a better narrative reason than this. The stagnant reality makes the most sense with Sephiroth's plan, and also would keep zack and aerith from joining the lifestream if they are trapped there or killed there. They could also tie Geostigma to this concept if they wanted.
@@off-meta-michael I figure it all comes down to why is Zack alive, and therefore who made that happen (planet or Sephiroth)? Or was it a mistake and the whispers merely failed to ensure he died? Your idea obviously relies on Sephiroth, but what if the planet is using him to counteract the main party somehow? Nothing "good" comes from that timeline it seems.
Michael, this is an incredible, absolutely outstanding video and contribution to the FF7 community. I was beaming from ear to ear how evidence driven and carefully you unpacked your theory, and supplied us with ample evidence to ruminate on the facts. I couldn’t be more grateful. Subscribed (I like D2 as well!) and I hope you make more FF7 videos in the future. I hope the FF7 community embraces you with open arms! Phenomenal job! 🎉
@@off-meta-michael I was especially inspired by your introduction as a commentator who is stepping up to the plate to share love for the series. Pushes me to put my voice out there too! Nicely done 👏 praise well earned.
It's definitely possible, except the color scheme of the harbinger, its name, and original concept for the cloaked figures (which became the whispers) all point to some kind of jenova influence. We'll see!
Btw in the OG if you watch the planetarium scene, the CG stops on a black hole, which black holes in Japanese better translate back as singularities. Since you touched on Bugenhagen, note when Sephiroth says it, he quotes Loveless, almost word for word as Genesis did in crisis core about how the planet suffers.
16:23 it’s stated in Lifestream Black that Cloud (or rather his hatred memories towards Sephiroth) is served as an anchor for Sephiroth to come back, since he already let go of his previous memories and focus on Cloud’s memories of him, since the stronger the memories, the deeper is Cloud’s trauma, the more he can pull from that and come back to the living world. That’s why he wants Cloud to live, but still vulnerable and malleable to serve his end.
Yes, this is why in chapter two he taunts him with his mother's dying words and tells him to hold on that "hatred." I didnt mention this in order to stay focused on topic. However, i was also considering that we dont know what further purpose he could have for cloud, especially "7 seconds until the end" Thanks for sharing this info!
@@off-meta-michael since I think Sephiroth needs Jenova cells to maintain presence on the surface (Advent Children), Cloud is also a healthy supply, at least ig until he attains godhood. By that time, all living beings including Cloud would maybe be forced to return to the Lifestream to become one with him as he said at the end of OG 7, perhaps by a massacre on a planet level (maybe with Chaos in Vincent or Omega Weapon).
Yeah man great video I’ll subscribe. I remember thinking as a kid the blocked doors on the path of the giant clock were gateways to the past or future that were locked
7:22 I am only this far in and excited to see the rest. But I had a theory awhile back about this image. If we look at this image, it’s actually a different version of the events. Like technically it could be the same occurrence, but the angles we see are different. Even the animation of her falling and the white materia being released is different from the moment we see this in the main story. Just wanted to throw this out there that while it is clearly a past event, I believe it could even be a different version of this event.
+7 points for your video Michael! This video has not only shed some light on the things that I've overlooked when I first played FF7 as a kid, but have expanded my views on the things to come with the Remake Trilogy. I appreciate you adding to the conversation that gets me more hyped for Rebirth!
Oh my gosh the lore master himself is stopping by? NICE to see you dude! Im stoked that my video reached you. So awesome what you've contributed to the ff7 community.
This is was such a great video! It's also worth pointing out that the Whisper that hangs over Cloud in his bedroom in Chapter 4 is speaking in Sephiroth's voice. The whispers never once attack Sephiroth in remake even though he is supposed to be the greatest threat to the planet? Thank you so much for this, so hyped!
Dont they try and stop him directly after stabbing Barret? It just seems he's too powerful and just slashes them away though. Not only that but they're seemingly there because of stuff that Sephiroth's doing.
Reading the text dialogue in old school JRPGs is like reading a book, if you skip certain things you miss very important relevant details in them that you wouldn’t think exists, glad to see someone took their time connecting the dots and showing that elements in Remake are not entirely new concepts and that exist in the Original but they are making it more apparent this time around, good analysis video overall the best I’ve seen👍
Great theory! I thought there wouldn’t be any more theories until after Rebirth. This makes the most sense of Sephiroth and his motives. I was resolute in believing Remake is a sequel, but this convinces me that it could go either way
Nice! Ive been playing the OG at least once a year since 1999. I can definitely get behind this theory. Good sources and ideas. Great Sephiroth impressions as well lol
Ive played it about that much as well. Ive noticed that people who REALLY know the OG seem to be more accepting of the Remake project and have a lot of fun with all the theories in general, whereas people who remember ff7 fondly but haven't played it in a while think Remake is some kind of "nomura fever dream" or "fan fiction" This is actually what drove me to make this first video. Thanks for checking it out. I have two more on the channel. Its all in a playlist.
@@off-meta-michael yeah I agree with you. I'm ready for the "unknown journey". As you said in one of your videos, the OG game becomes really easy after a while and I could beat it blindfolded at this point. I'm excited to see how things turn out in the upcoming installments and I'm just grateful to have been able to experience Remake and the Rebirth Demo. Keep up the good work man, you got my sub!
@@off-meta-michaelHi, it's interesting that you say this, because I'm in a similar situation (Play original FF7 annually), but the friend group I regularly discuss FF7 with disliked the new story elements of Remake (Zack's fate, Whispers, Sephiroth's new presentation, etc.) despite knowing the original very, very well. I think my friends and I would be in what's labeled the "purist" camp to Remake fans. And I do not mean to disparage any of the compilation/remake fans when I say this, but I think the FF7 community at large just valued different things about the original story (themes, concepts, importance of certain characters/moments, etc.) and it just may not be possible to reconcile all of those differences in the FF7R trilogy. I think our community just might be fractured into our little subgroups now, forever thinking the other side: "Just doesn't understand what made FF7 special." Because we took certain parts of it to be the story's "true meaning/value." Not sure how to feel about that state of things, but that just seems to be inevitable at this point looking at the discussions since Remake's release. (And since the Compilation really).
This is such a good video !! I loved hearing your take on what's going to happen in the new game and i totally never even thought about the stagnant reality part but it actually makes so much sense.
My assumption since I first played through FF7 is that by killing Sephiroth in the crater and dumping him into the lifestream it allowed the Jenova cells, which have already been established to be able to mess with memory, to infect the lifesream and thus alter history via the planets memory. Iirc its already official that the original FF7 is technically the "bad ending" so the remake is a sequel that happens along the same flow of events with the goal being the good ending.
that all makes sense, but it is still unclear if having future sight means direct sequel or expansion on the themes of fate. as i show in my video there are heavy fate themes that can be easily overlooked. this is also why a lot of people go with the "Remaquel" term. imagine if ff7 OG didn't exist and Remake came out for the first time as ff7, it would still make sense as a story. im okay with either direction for the story as i said in the video. one other reason i lean toward it not being a sequel is because it seems like Aerith and Sephiroth know a lot but not everything, especially Aerith. there's even a line from when you fight Sephiroth in the singularity where he says to Aerith, "can you not see your future?" furthermore, the character growth of everyone is a major part of Rebirth. the idea that they could "remember" these pivotal moments from the OG timeline just makes me kinda wonder why we would rehash them? and so it really blurs the line between sequel and remake at the very least and it's hard to say one way or the other.
After this amazing dive into what has happened so far, I am getting the feeling that it might be a sequel and that the name "Remake" is that future that Sephiroth has built, and Rebirth is how its giving Birth into this new reality and now the third one will be the conclusion of whatever will happen. If not, I'm still happy and mind-blown. So thank you my G for your time and sharing all of this content. Props 2u
Great analysis! To me as well the whole fate/destiny themes were always pretty prominent in OG, but I totally glossed over the Time Guardian. Thanks for pointing that out. Also this video makes me extra excited how the Temple of the Ancients segment will play out in Rebirth. Keep the FFVII theory/vids coming 🤓!
The temple is also featured in the background of the party menus in Rebirth. Seems like they are featuring this for some purpose. The Temple is so important to moving the plot along in OG, i imagine it will be pretty wild in Rebirth. Trying to keep my hype in check but kinda hard not to be excited about it haha
@@off-meta-michael Hahah yeah I bet, my mind is also working overtime as to what exactly happened lol. Should you need someone to spar with theory-wise I'm always up for it! In any case I will wait and see what you're cooking ;).
Superb video ace! Great insight and clearly explained. I recognise your profile pic from my many scrolls down YT comment sections so we follow the same guys for sure. Sephiroths 'listen' response to Cloud has just taken a badass tone to it now. Loved the connection of Sephiroth and Bugenhagens thinking of the inevitable demise of the planet and the implications of its cries too. I have no personal theory but i just love the conversations people have and the ideas it brings. Thanks for the time and effort you put into making this, really. Not often I come across not only new, but valid and interesting points regarding the new trilogys direction.
What a great and chill video. TH-cam boosting smaller channels recently has put the spotlight on some great creators. Would be super interested to hear your thoughts on other theories or predictions you have for rebirth!
Enjoying all of this! With all that we have now on the table it's easy to say they're making a sequel. If Sefirot and Aeris have not ended this is clearly a sequel. I love how have you connected all of this with the OG. Great work!
I'm kind of speechless here. This is one of the most well crafted, well researched theory videos out there. Very impressive. I'm kind of on board here and cannot wait to see what happens in Rebirth. The only question I have, is what is Zack's importance to the story with this theory, if Sephiroth really wants to create a reality where he would rule over all basically. Zack is arguably the 2nd stronger SOLDIER to ever exist. How does keeping somebody alive, who will most definitely end up being a threat to his plans in this world, benefit him? Is it because he cannot help that Zack would be stuck in this "stagnate" reality? Because that's just how the rules works? I always thought that right before the Whispers got controlled by Sephiroth, which I think is what ended up happening at the end of Remake, they somehow went to another "timeline", and kept Zack alive, as a desperate attempt to combat Sephiroth. Even though Zack is supposed to die, the Whispers saw Sephiroth as such a big threat, that they decided to change fate, the one that they desire to protect, in an effort for one of the strongest SOLDIERS to ever live, survive and combat Sephiroth to restore the balance of how things were supposed to be. I really want to hear your thoughts on these questions.
a few possibilites. 1. aerith's white portal at the highway is not explained as of yet. when the first portion of the zack vision ends it swoops out of Aerith's face. perhaps she knows what the stagnate reality is and alters the whispers at that moment to save him knowing he will be their wild card in that reality. the whispers don't seem to change things only keep them on track, so either aerith or sephiroth have to have a hand in making sure the whispers save him. 2. we may have defeated the arbiter in time before the whispers could ensure zack's death, and he lives but isn't supposed to. we see this reality seems to have destruction, the crack in the sky, the party presumably all dead...it seems like sephiroth has very few obstacles in this reality, except zack, and so his purpose would be to figure out why cloud and aerith are asleep, and discover sephiroth's role in the stagnate reality that he is trapped in. as the player the mystery of this world would unfold and help push the plot of sephiroth's end game. 3. another would be sephiroth controlling the whispers to save zack, in order to capture him in the stagnate reality to mess with cloud later. cloud will break if he sees zack alive. or perhaps sephiroth can show cloud that he can save the dead in his version of the future, which entices cloud to believe in sephiroth's plan of defying destiny. zack's role here would be like i said above of discovering the nature of this reality, but also being a catalyst to some difficult choices and truths for cloud. 4. it could be that the zack plot is in the future and it's made to look like a second timeline, but really it's the outcome of saving aerith from death. zack's role here would be to once again unravel the mystery of the nature of this reality. it could even flash back to aerith walking to the capitol by herself once we discover this. we'll be completely on edge of what could happen. this would also explain why we see marlene there, kyrie there, elmyra, etc. if sephiroth has his future taking shape then that could explain the crack in the sky, why elmyra says the world is ending, and explain why marlene warns of a scary man that's going to kill aerith when she wakes up. if the stagnate reality is achieved and aerith is killed there, she won't be able to get to the lifestream and sephiroth will be able to rid the world of lifestream using meteor and only have the stagnate reality left over. zack's role here would be to protect aerith in the stagnate reality and find a way out. 5. biggs has a line in the one of the newer trailers where he's trying to understand why he got "a free pass" and everyone else didn't make it. i immediately surmised that zack and him are trying to figure out how they both survived. we also hear zack recounting to someone how hes "feeling every bullet" or in japanese "it was windy" assuming the whispers helped. perhaps he and biggs are swapping stories of how they thought they died but made it anyway. theses type of conversations would support what i said about unraveling the mystery of the reality.
These are all good points. This is a darker theory, but one I never thought of. What if Sephiroth saved Zack, knowing that he had Jenova cells in him, and will try and use him as his “instrument” in this reality, in whatever way he sees fit, possibly even at the end of the game against the party as some sort of “evil Zack” or something. Idk, just something I thought of while sleeping haha. Either way, no matter what happens, I believe in the team at Square and am confident they will deliver us some great storytelling here. We have to remember, this is their art. They can do what they want with it, and we need to keeps our expectations in check. I’ve never been more excited for a release man.
@@zachdixon413 The research papers in the Shinra basement where the experiments were done specifically mentioned that one of the subjects did not respond to either Jenova cells or the mako, so I don't think this is a real possibility...
@@benn93z28 Doesn’t meant it can’t be activated. I always thought that they never messed with Zack like they did with Cloud because Zack is so him, and knows who he is. If some stuff really goes sideways, in his “reality”, he could break down, and become mentally unstable, and they could activate. Idk man. Just a theory. We have no proof why exactly, he resisted it or if it’s a permanent resistance.
@@zachdixon413 Shoot anything is possible, but all what we know so far is that Zack was never susceptible perhaps because he's both mentally stronger and didn't have the insecurities and childhood trauma that Cloud had.
@judestongue 6 to 8+ mins in... These do set a precedent for being able to see past (and future memories). For each one, the catalyst is either magic, a consciousness, device or LifeStream. Since even remake tells us cetra devices are powered by mako aka LifeStream, and Jenova/Sephiroth's abilities are also due to negative/alien LifeStream as ff7 is part of the basis for the basic plot of The Spirits Within: alien LifeStream came on a big rock and is trying to colonize the new planet. We can safely say LifeStream memories and the consciousness of the planet, something important in the OG, is the means with which this is done. Themes in the compilation also support this, as does some OG quotes, like Tifa's about how memories in the mind can be altered to make you believe anything, but memories of the heart can only tell the truth. If you follow Flower Maiden, they introduce whispers, a pink whisper, and the ability and concept of moving through time. However there are limits to what one can do, and resistances. 10:36 Fun fact... Jenova is speaking a lot as Sephiroth. Jenova is Jehovah-God Nova-New. New God. God complexes. Minerva, representing the LifeStream, is referred to as a goddess. LifeStream versus LifeStream. Planet versus planet. When worlds merge.
Very well done. I like that you have shown evidence to prove either outcome and maybe this is really what Square-Enix is doing in order to appease both camps.
I appreciate the logical thought processes. Sephiroth Parroting what bugenhagen says in order to soften the info dump is smart. Also it’s nuts to me that I really did not seem to fully grasp the concept that Sephiroth fears death and losing himself , and that Aerith is basically trying to preserve the fate of their planet. I always think of them trying to SAVE the planet. And the ending makes you think they did.. which, maybe you’re right and maybe she resets it somehow so it doesn’t die… it’s a total mind fuck to think about for me.
This video was extremely fascinating and well made! I really like your narration and how you voice your thoughts and theory. I would be really interested to hear your thoughts about Rebirth on how your theory holds up once the game has been released. Thank you for making this :)
Yea man, i am totally open minded to whatever happens and my theory here has basically set me up to not be disappointed by anything. Ill cover it for sure, because you KNOW they are gonna pull something in Rebirth that has us questioning everything again for part 3. They have to in order to keep the intrigue and hype going.
Just found your channel and thoroughly enjoyed your detailed examples and explanations. This very closely goes along with a theory I developed overtime and filled in some gaps. I speculated that Sephiroth somehow timetraveled and your video explained how it could have happened. During the recent theatrical re-release of Advent children in the pre interview Nomura and crew confirmed that advent children fans will have tie ins from the movie in rebirth. To me it’s obvious we’re dealing with post advent children Sephiroth at end of Remake. (He has black wing 🪽 which doesn’t come until AC & Dissidia) and he has knowledge of those events and even quotes a rebuttal to Cloud you mentioned: “I will never be a memory” to Cloud’s “Stay where you belong, in my memories.” I have a crazy theory that Sephiroth might even get a redemption arc as he realizes the true villain and now knows the truth about Jenova. The real villains are Jenova and Hojo. She poisoned the lifestream and to finally resolve this he must want Cloud’s help to accomplish this somehow. Why he needs Clouds strength in particular eludes me. In the recent rebirth trailer they’re talking to a being asking for the black materia to “end the cycle” I wonder if Sephiroth knows/thinks that there is a way to continue living instead of everyone being doomed to repeat this endless time loop and resolve the situation somehow. Or he’s simply just as evil as ever and is manipulating everyone to change it so he survives and “sails the galaxy with this planet as his vessel” as he said before. We’ll soon find out more on this eve of Rebirth. Kudos if you read all that lol. Great content man. Can’t wait to see more.
Hey thanks for sharing your theory! I do have more in this playlist if you're interested. Thanks man! TWO DAYS until Rebirth th-cam.com/play/PLd9O2b2YPpJp6sPL-GHa4Uvr2SB5g9NNG.html&si=J2nUHB-_cwKH1od0
@@off-meta-michael Cool I’ll definitely check those out now. It feels like the longest 24 -48 hours in history lmao. I’ll need something to keep my mind busy haha.
Hey thanks man, you actually read one of my comments in a video once like a year ago talking about some ff7 stuff. Can't remember what i wrote though or what it was about ha
@@off-meta-michael Yeah, you gave your suggestions on the order to play the FF7 compilation. There was probably some other stuff about time travel, too.
@@joshuathomas386 oh yea that's right. If i recall correctly i may have said for people who are just getting started they could play Remake alone and play OG if they want but my point was that Remake should be sufficient as a trilogy and playing anything else will broaden your understanding but won't be totally required to understand the story and characters. I believe this because i the devs have said you could even start your ff7 journey with Rebirth. Even if the sequel idea is the main story direction there should be enough context in this trilogy to understand what is being defied or changed.
I forgot about this part that it slipped my mind. The Temple of the Ancients and getting the black materia. What if just Cloud and the party just being in the Temple of the Ancients, they traveled through time just by messing with the clock? Cloud also became a traveler of the lifestream… What if it’s activates a fail safe and distorted their dimensions.
the original ff7 i think only red survived, like meteor hit but it only wiped out humanity so the planet could heal, aeriths assistance at the end wasn't her trying to stop meteor but was her attempting to change time to give them a chance to a do over as she knew meteor was inevitable. Who knows what knowledge she learnt from the ancients while she was in their domain having visions and stuff
I was wondering if you'd delve into LOVELESS. Seems very shrouded in mystery, and one of the verses says "Legend shall speak of sacrifice at world's end". It didnt seem like the world is ending in Crisis Core, so i can only assume that LOVELESS is cryptically hinting at what will happen at the end of the trilogy. PLUS, the devs said in part 2, the party will play out a rendition of LOVELESS, and the outcome will be impacted by your relationships with each character. In Crisis Core, it seems more like the "3 heroes" of the poem are moreso related to Angeal, Genesis and Sephiroth. But since its being incorporated into Rebirth, i think it has far more significance outside of Crisis Core.
So i didnt cover that at all because its not in the OG. Remake does have that NPC in sector 7 saying the end of the play has a new ending though. Seems like a hint for sure.
What I was thinking of for a long time after playing remake was this: Aeris -Aerith- knows the events of the original, and Sephiroth also knows the events of the original, and sephiroth isn't going to turn out to be the big bad that he once was. He understands the timeline and will either end up helping everyone by pulling the sacrifice play or him and Aries will concoct something to change things. The team has already said that they are taking inspiration leading into dirge of Cerberus and Advent children's worlds. Since they are tying them all together. We still have Genesis to deal with.
The sephiroth redemption theory is definitely not happening. Thereis no way they added extra scenes with sephiroth for part 1 in order to introduce the "real" villain later. The devs have also said several times that sephiroth is the most powerful villain, that there is no one above him, and that more context for his character is being shown in order to make him more relatable. I would be completely shocked if remake was being made in order to redeem sephiroth. As i show in my video, sephiroth's goal of saving the planet is not good natured, he wants to preserve it in an unnatural way that has him ruling over everything. This is in the OG and told to us in Remake if you pay attention. Thanks for the comment dude. If you're right about sephiroth redemption theory ill be sure to give you a shoutout, but i see no evidence for it currently
@@off-meta-michael oh I totally agree That's why I said at the beginning of the post was that I was thinking about it. It'd be wild if they did that but ultimately no lol. Aerith definitely knows and if they do have her show to us and to cloud and co. that she's been speaking to her other self from the OG 7 I would be surprised and at the same time if they don't I would also not be surprised. I just hope this next game isn't going to fall into the same cliche written easily identifiable narrative that other games in the past two or three years have fallen into. You know when you play a game and you're roughly a quarter of the way or halfway through it and then it just clicks and you realize piece by piece what's going to happen until the end and it actually happens lol? Kind of like a poorly written movie. I doubt that it's going to be that way but you never know.
Just stumbled upon your video. I loved this breakdown! It's like the whole talk if fate was happening, even back in the original! It's mad how detailed the devs were thinking back then! Good shout looking at the sephiroth lyrics too! I love your sephiroth impressions btw 😊
Thank you so much! I was wondering before Rebirth came out if my ff7 videos would become irrelevant and so im glad people can still enjoy them and get something out of the parallels and precedences that i show. I will be doing more videos on Rebirth, but im waiting until more people have completed it and i have still been thinking about it myself still. Should be soon though.
I don’t know if you noticed, but the howls of the planet are the same as whisperers. The sound is the howls of the planet. Let alone cloud is the outlier in terms of Zack the person meant to be a soldier 1st class to be the hero. Cloud was everything not to be. That could be the saving grace of things but then also the defying factor in some way. Let alone in advent and the closing credits it take place 100 years after. 2 alternate events possibly two ending along with your therory.
Ive thought the same as well, but i don't think we should diminish the idea that the compilation is canon and being incorporated as well as the possibility that this is supposed to be a sequel. As i said, i tend to believe it is a remake and not a direct sequel to the OG, but there are several nagging details that could prove otherwise. Overall, im cool with either direction because the OG allows for these types of deviations and elements in my opinion. Thanks for the comment dude!
@@off-meta-michael im in the same boat interms of im happy either way, im just more inclined to believe it truly is a remake, the more i replay the OG and remake itself the more im convinced
@@TeAXIIIT13 yea, i think so as well. I think my biggest hang up right now about the sequel idea is that it would seem very advantageous for Sephiroth to just kill Tifa as soon as he sees her now that the whispers are "gone." But as we've seen in yhe trailers he is trying to pit Cloud against her and make him question if she is really her. Also, at the whirlwind maze we see an illusion of her at one point. It really seems like they are expanding that detail by introducing all this doubt about who Cloud can trust. And once again, this doesn't seem like a sequel plot point, but more so an expansion of an OG idea in order to develop these plot points more naturally into the story. Anyway, its so interesting to me!
@@off-meta-michael i agree with most of what you said, i dont believe sephiroth will “target tifa instead” though. We know the whispers are still about, what we dont know is if what weve been told about them is true (i believe they are more to do with sephiroth than arbiters of fate)
I'm subscribing even though I'm not interested in Diablo at all just because your theory video was both compelling and really clearly explained and I'm curious to see what you have to say about this later.
The thing that makes me believe this is a sequal is because of the interactions between Sephiroth and the whispers in Remake. Sephiroth makes Cloud hallucinate and follow him down an alley way after blowing up the first reactor to prevent Cloud from meeting Aerith. RIGHT AFTER you meet Aerith because the whispers are holding her there. If this isn't a sequal, and Sephiroth isn't attempting to change events, then I dont know how they explain it. Also, Zack is alive.
Yea and that is valid. The game tells us destiny's course is a part of what is being tampered with and we are lead to believe this course is the original, thereby necessarily making it a sequel. However, if i block out the possibility of a sequel and think about why these things are happening, its not hard to come up with another explanation: sephiroth leading cloud into the alley is part of the process of gaining influence on Cloud's mind. "Good cloud, hold on to that hatred" is said after this seqeuence, sephiroth is pleased with how well the interaction went. During the reactor we only saw a feather fall and that was the first distraction into cloud's psyche by sephiroth. We know sephiroth will continue to appear to cloud and place lies in his head for his own purposes later in the story. Zack being alive would be more of a continuation for him after crisis core, so more like a sequel to crisis core. Because in the OG zack's sacrifice is actually a hidden scene that's only available after Cloud rejoins and you go back to shinra mansion in nibelheim. We see zack in advent children as well. So you could argue zack being in Remake and surviving is going to help flesh out the mystery of sephiroth's end game, but also be a pivotal role in tying together compilation elements and stories. Like i said, zack dying in OG was a missable scene, so him being alive now is less of a direct sequel to OG and more of a compilation incorporation. But i am aware even without this hidden scene the OG heavily heavily implies he didn't make it. But since this is no longer a mystery of the OG they are repurposing the mystery of zack for the remake. Aerith being held by whispers to meet Cloud could be more nuanced. The whispers seem to have jenova influence based on their design. Aerith is the last cetra. destiny's course could be a red herring for jenova's corruption of the lifestream. Cloud has jenova cells. Bringing them close together could be less so making sure OG events occur and more so lets kill her by controlling Cloud eventually and here's the first puzzle piece. Aerith acting like she knows cloud already could be explained by her ability to speak to the dead and know things before they happen as the OG showed she could do as a little girl. Overall, you can make either concept work and honestly it is kinda both depending on how you look at it.
I think a sequel remake is indeed what SE were hinting at. If anything, as a nod towards how many people have played and completed the original countless times - suggesting an endless cycle that we can't escape. The remake potentially is us / the characters breaking that cycle. Although who are we kidding, we'll be playing all 3 parts of the remake over and over again until the planet explodes 😂
Uhh, it connects very well with my view on the last Scene where we beat Sephiroth in Remake. Many say that Sephiroth absorbs the whispers but for me it all way long seems like they ARE Sephiroth und we are just tricked into thinking that he absorbed them. Thank you for your Video. 👌
Always thought that Remake in FFVII title was not about remake of a game, but more of a remake of the events, faith, world etc. That's why second part is not titled Remake 2 but Rebirth.
Great video! I've been wondering whether it was Square Enixes conspiracy that all marketing and most of the content creators kinda omit the topic of the Planet's life cycle lol
If anything they’re going to incorporate elements that Final Fantasy IX has also used in the past on how the perception of time can impact memories, commenting on the immutable truth of an person or an event’s existence: Memory begets time Time overlaps And the overlap is comprised of a stream of memories Thus the lifestream is the cornerstone of existence. How can you prove one’s existence if there is no memory of it?
Hey! Thanks very much. I have listened to several of your video essays. You have a very naturally pleasing voice and are probably one of the most articulate people ive ever heard talk about final fantasy. It seems to come easy to you. Im glad my video reached you!
@judestongue Thanks, that means lot. I hope you continue with your own analysis as your own cadence and delivery is fantastic - casually essaying as you do on camera is an enviable skill 😅
These "remade ideas" are actually very good, on paper. It's Square's excecution that is the main issue. . . A big one is not when Sephiroth is revealed but how. How much better would it have been if he was another character, entirely? Maybe it's strange but this has already happened in both OG and the movie (disguised as Jenova and the remnants). Better still, DMCV littlerally split the main antagonist into two completely new characters, that each share that much between them. This was probably the best idea I've seen for character reintroduction, for the past decade. Comparing that to how Sephiroth is just shoved right into our faces. . .
A trilogy that doesn't introduce the villain in the first game wouldn't work that well in my opinion. As i showed in the video, Remake is doing a better job of avoiding the info dump at Temple of the Ancients in the OG and setting up all the pieces to show how that plan is accomplished. Whether it's better than the original is just subjective and preference. We can't go back to 1997 when no one knew the ff7 story at all. We'll see how it plays out once all 3 games are done. Thanks for the comment!
@@off-meta-michael Funny, 'cus remake Sephiroth doesn't actually 'say' any antagonistic things. So he might not even be the villian, as such. Also, I was always personally convinced that Sephiroth was always dead, after Crisis Core. And it was just Jenova in his guise. That later point has make me think that remake Sephiroth, and/or even Aeris, are also Jenova!! This would have been the real target Square's story should've aimed for. An antagonist that is a surprise reveal for all fans and newcomers. Not an iconic, yet motivationless old fart! xD
@@misapheonix Sephiroth is 'dead' but in the Lifestream, his will was too strong to die, and so he is manipulating Jenova to take on his appearance which is what we confront throughout the game until the events at the Northern Crater at which time his physical body is released. The Ultimania Omega states "He didn’t fall under Jenova’s sway but rather seized control and assumed command over her actions. This development gives us a sense of the extraordinary strength the lifeform known as Sephiroth possesses."
FWIW, there are multiple incarnations of Sephiroth in Remake. The one that appears at the end of the game is different from the OG Sephiroth which essentially makes him 'the real villain' in FFVIIR. So, from that perspective, you could say the villain wasn't truly revealed to us until the very end of Remake.
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FF7 released in 1997 and now we are in the year 2024 and we are STILL learning about this game. This is part of why it's my #1 game of all time. Awesome video!
Reminds me of the good ole days, when I had to use my next door neighbor's computer to look up how to save Aerith, then spend the summer trying. 😂
It's amazing how packed with detail the story was. So many modern games are kind of just following a map marker with no purpose, but FF7 had so many story points pulling you forward from place to place. I remember not being able to put it down. I needed to see what happened next. I haven't felt that way since the PS1 days.
Yes!
💯
WOW
@@_caustics_ Amen
Bugenhagen: "Looking up makes you lose perspective."
Also Bugenhagen: lives in a friggin' observatory.
Yup!
to be fair,
for him to point that out signifies that he's grown wise to that by studying his own faults and rectifying them...
Further solidifying his theories in relation to Gaia and the Lifestream to be more accurate,
takes a wise soul to look within and fix such faults in their own character...
looking up is a distraction that takes our Focus away from the perspective of truth,
especially with the visions that the Ancients/Cetra and Sephiroth are clearly capable of Inducing...
Proof of this is in the OG FF7 when you enter the North Crater at the end of the game when Sephiroth separates the team from each other,
that's just off the top of my head...
not to mention Clouds altered Memories, of course
Technically, he lives in a planetabotory.
Really excellent video, dude. I'm now very keen to see how the Time Guardian is presented in Rebirth. You've presented a few great arguments that I haven't seen elsewhere. Compelling stuff.
Thank you MJ!! I watched your entire chapter by chapter breakdown a whilw back of Remake where you talked about the compilation elements. Great stuff and of course I've seen your massive contributions during the seal team 7 podcasts. Im so glad this video reached you and thank you for checking it out. Sorry i forgot to shout you out during my intro sir!
@@off-meta-michael don't be silly, I would never have expected a shout out. I'm very grateful for your kind comments. I look forward to anything else you might have cooking for Rebirth.
Dahaka! That is the best Time Guardian I have ever seen.
@@off-meta-michaelcan you please make your thoughts and breakdown like this on the rebirth game please. I would love to know your thoughts now.
@@RyanJones-nh3mu hey, tha ks for reaching out. yes i will. I have lots of other things im working on and some people have only just finished Rebirth as it is, but i will do a video for it for sure. Thanks
I don’t know how this video appeared in my recommendation but this was really well done! Keep up the good work, King! As a huge FF7 fan, I can’t wait for Rebirth to come out next month.
Im stoked for it. Scheduled a off a week from work just to play on launch!
While I've only completed the OG and half of the remake, I can't shake the feeling how close these parallels you presented offer the clarity to what could be the plot. It's right under our noses! It hadn't occurred to me that the Remake could be a FF version of "What if...??" Until Rebirth is released we won't know for sure, but the evidence is certainly evident here.
Your video is awesome, and to elaborate on your theory as to what Zack's role is in this: I think Zack's reality is what Sephiroth will try to lure Cloud with. Think about it .. In this reality, both Aerith and Zack are alive. He gets to escape the pain of losing both of them while living there. What if .. at the end of Rebirth Cloud witnesses Aerith's death, but his consciousness is whisked away and wakes up in Zack's reality? He'll have to make the tough choice of living in a reality where his guilt is assuaged because two of his friends are alive but everything else goes to hell in a hand basket or he goes back to the main reality where Zack and Aerith are dead to save the planet and all those on it. Remember, there's a part of the OG game where Cloud is missing, and even after he's found, he's in the same condition as the Cloud we see in Zack's reality. All this can happen without necessarily changing the main story. Food for thought! Thank you!!~Ben
I've been saying it's the prequel and will lead to a version of Cloud Kadajing himself into the "Sephiroth" we find in Midgar and up to actually freeing him.
That would be wild
OMG this video was SO DAMN GOOD. I am in the middle of replaying OG in full for the first time since 2019 (played it in prep for Remake) and I've also been catching a lot of similar things about traces of these Remake ideas in the OG that I simply overlooked. I was especially fascinated by that same Bugenhagen scene about fate. And for a couple of years now, I've also been OBSESSED with that scene at the Temple of the Ancients with Sephiroth talking about creating the future.
But you really illuminated something for me with your thoughts on Sephiroth's potential endgame and the idea of a stagnant reality.
I have also been wondering about the Time Guardian in Temple of the Ancients. It is a pretty compelling precedent for some kind of time altering mechanic, but I never considered it being a piece of Ancient technology that is no longer operational. It reminds me of something I saw on Twitter yesterday. Apparently there is a scene in Dirge -- I believe aboard the Highwind -- where one of the NPC mechanics says this if you talk to them: "To tell you the truth, the ship is not even from this era. It is a relic from a lost civilization." More precedence for Ancient technology?
Also, really nice find about the original idea of the clones being some kind of floating figures in black robes. In the end, it made more sense for them to have more of the corporeal form that they have since they are meant to be clones/copies of Sephiroth, but it's still an interesting discovery about how they're repurposing some original concepts. And, as you noted, Sleepezi has talked about the connection between Jenova and the Whispers before as well.
Really, really excellent video and you inspired some new thoughts in me for sure. It'll really be helpful as I continue to replay the original ahead of Rebirth (just reached Aerith's death).
DUDE, thank you so much for this response. I was HOPING that other content creators would chime in and give this a listen. You just made my day. Super appreciative. My channel is geared towards diablo 2 content so i knew it would be hard to get some legs on this video, but thank you for giving me a sign that the people who are deep into the lore are watching. Thank you!
@@off-meta-michael I've definitely been sharing it around. Good stuff 👏
@@SubTXT_ thank you so much for sharing it. Before you commented, the video only had like 50 views or something. So thanks again man. Nobody would have saw it had you not taken the time to help out.
@@off-meta-michaeland now it’s almost at 3k 🙌🏼 well deserved. Great video
Time travel in FF7 Remake seems to work the same way it does in Attack on Titan in my opinion. People don't literally travel in time, it's more like the past, present and future all exist at a single predestined coordinate in time, and certain people have the ability to send their memories backwards and forwards to past/future versions of themselves to influence the outcome of the final timeline.
Man this is so well done! You have me questioning and rethinking and wondering. This is great thank you! Very good video.
Glad you enjoyed it, and i hope it helps you enjoy whatever Rebirth has in store for us
If it weren't for Aerith already knowing things like Cloud's a merc or that Tifa wanted her to get Marlene out of the bar without them saying a word to her beforehand and Sephiroth trying to keep Cloud from meeting Aerith, I wouldn't know what to think. But everything she knows has precedence and Seph was making calculated, pre-planned moves so it's hard for me to not write this off as a sequel. Other than that, VERY interesting stuff👏🏻
I totally hear ya. I will be discussing this exact thing in my 3rd theory video soon to offer some other perspectives. Currently only this one and the Stagnant Reality video (as of today) are out
@@off-meta-michaelI'll keep an eye out👌🏻
This is the best theory video out. And I watch everyone. You had solid facts and examples. I feel like I know what’s going on in rebirth now.
Thank you SO MUCH for watching and for the really nice comment.
I think the 'sequels' all take place in the 7 seconds Cloud and Seph are facing each other in the Northern Crater. A battle of Wills before the final Omnislash. Great vid.
Thanks
I have two more theory vids on the channel that relate to this. I could rephrase and say the "sequel" is in the Remake trilogy itself as you are somewhat suggesting. If you watch those youll see what i mean. Thanks for checking it out
It's neat to see some of the details tossed out there, but considering it's the same guy doing the remake as made the OG FF7, my headcanon has always been that he's now getting to flesh out the story and characters in ways that technology would not let him in 1997. While FF7 was trailblazing in a number of ways at its time, there's no way you can go through all the details you would have liked, be it for graphical, coherent or storage reasons. He's far less restricted now on the PS5 platform, so he gets to go through all the details he always had/wanted for the story. I don't really get anyone throwing a fit over this, it's literally his story, he can do what he wants with it, and this is possibly what he always envisioned, too.
Yea, the devs have said as much as well, but its not just that. They have said that the compilation of ff7 is also being incorporated into the remake in many ways because it also is canon. Further, they have said that they wanted to add new elements to the remake in order to make it interesting for themselves to create. I totally get this because if you're a creator and you're not excited about the project then its gonna be a drag to make. So there are definitely new elements that were not just old ideas being implemented. The stamp logo and zack's role, for example, are massive additions.
in my video i am trying to prepare people for the possibility of either an actual Remake or Sequel by showing with evidence how the OG allows for this kind of story telling within its lore. I think the devs have precedence since they are the original creators but also because the world of ff7 they created shows how their additions make sense.
As you said, you're not sure why people are put off by the OG creators adding to it, and i would agree, but ive seen a lot of comments from who people are very disgruntled nonetheless about these additions, and i was hoping to alleviate some of this tension while making people excited for either possibility.
Dude, this is the one!! So frustrating hearing people say their “favorite game” has been ruined by concepts that were there the whole time lol. Great video man I’m subscribed👍🏼
I’ve been thinking a lot of this for a while but the way you put it all together is phenomenal. That part from the wiki about whispers being parts of jenova, basically floating robes, is huge!! Amazing
Thanks for the sub dude!
Yea that wiki kinda blew my mind when I found it. I was like...."uhh the whispers were an OG concept basically....whaaaat."
AFTER ALL THESE FREAKING YEARS! This, This makes sense! I love it! Great Hypothesis! getting on OG right now and replaying. Thanks for the inspiration!
*Thumbs Up and Subscribed!*
Thanks very much for the sub!
Outstanding! I never would have put these pieces together but it does make a lot of sense. We need to be mindful that their story telling abilities were very limited by the technology of the day. It makes sense to me that now there getting to tell the story they wish they could have, and probably even expand on it quite a bit. I’m here for it.
THANK YOU everyone for liking, commenting, and subscribing. The ff7 community really showed up and pulled me in. Thank you for giving me a chance and making me a part of this. I am floored and absolutely blown away how well this video was received. I spent many many hours working on it. To be accepted like this; being my genuine self on a topic i love is unbelievably gratifying.
The next video is already in the works to follow up with this one and we are so close to Rebirth. Thank you all!
👏👏👏👏
Good job mike this is my all time favorite game, wish i had the PS5
@@JohnnyJMurphy thanks man
I have always thought this game was a sequel but as you argued it could really be either a sequel or a remake and to me that is kind of beautiful.
This is a great video loved how you presented it and pulled resources and your depth of knowledge on everything. It reminded me of an english professor breaking down a story to the class.
I have always thought time travel was heavily involved because as you said there is a precedent. It just seems some of those elements, like the whispers, were cut or diminished in OG FF7 but to be fair I am sure tons of things were. I honestly think Sephiroth has time traveled and the lifestream is the key to doing so. I think Aerith and Zack will in turn do the same in the background to support Cloud and company who are doing the direct engagement with him, and most likely aid in the final blow. While I think it is interesting this idea of a stagnant world idk if I am completely on board. To nerd out a bit I see parallels a bit with Marvel Secret War 2016 where Dr. Doom creates his own new universe outside of the multiverse using broken realities to save, and rule over, everyone eternally.
Could this be what Sephiroth is doing with the knowledge he has gained, creating broken stagnate worlds outside of time and fate and the plans to bring them all together in a reunion where he is an eternal god? Would be on brand for Final Fantasy but I think it might be a little more sinister.
I have been working on my “Final” theory but want to wait until the final trailer is out to finish it off and articulate it but the short is I think Sephiroth is continuing the Jenova legacy, and they are more than just world destroyers. I think they essentially infect the life stream of planets and in turn become the life stream of the planet and imprison all the souls within them so the planet cannot continue the natural course of death and rebirth. They then in turn move on to the next world essentially to add more inmates to their eternal soul prison. I guess you could say this prison is the stagnant world you mentioned so I might just be saying the same thing in a different way.
Either way I loved the theory. hope to share more theories and discussions with you in the future for Rebirth and beyond!
Hey thanks for taking the time to write this comment. Im flattered by the english/lit teacher comparison. You mentioned your own theory "final" theory youve been working on? Id be interested to check it out. Thanks man
I was skeptical at first but wow, this is fantastic. I can’t wait to hear more from you. Excellent work
More to come! thanks
Thanks for the shoutout!! And great video man, I agree with all of this, it’s all in the original and we are getting the true vision and definitive version of FF7 finally!!
Phil!!! Dude, i watched all your ff7 videos my man. Im so glad this video reached you.
@@off-meta-michael my pleasure, great work with this and please continue making content if you enjoy it, that “I will create the future” line has been the subject of much discussion when I replayed the OG too, fascinating!
yooooo its Chadiroth
Holy/lifestream with the collision of meteor caused a paradox and compressed past present and future
I think the only feedback right now in FF7 Remake Trilogy is the Info-dump and the spoon feeding of every information we need. But all those information is still not enough and still needs to be interpreted.
I've watched Max, NSP, Blitzz, Sleepezi, BabySeal and other youtubers out there and I'm on the "This game is a Remake and not a Sequel" or some other say "Requel". I knew about the Temple of Ancients dialogues and scenes and I think that's where it should explain everything. Everything happened in the Remake do not moved away on what the OG FF7's story really is. It's just expounded and just like you said, an amalgamation to the whole compilation.
Zack is only there to not impact the story but to explain how FF7 world works, primarily how Lifestream really works.
BTW, Great Video and looking forward to your other theory crafting videos!
So there's something called Stagnant Lifestream in Dirge of Cerberus where there are some connections between that and corrupt/Jenova/Sephiroth influence. And we see Sephiroth use this stagnant lifestream (if I recall) in AC, and when Geostigma was introduced. And if all that is true, then it makes sense for Sephiroth to want to create a third 'lifestream' so to speak that is destitute of life and death, and it's merely an empty void where only he (and likely Cloud) will exist. Almost gives me Dr. Strange vibes where he is consumed with wanting to alter time to the point where he destroys everything and is left alone in the eternal void. It doesn't seem like Sephiroth's goal is to destroy everything just for the sake of destruction, like say Kefka. He would exist, but outside reality. The more we learn about Sephiroth, the more somber his goal seems to be. Not so much evil, but more poignant.
...so basically Sephiroth wants to fight Cloud for all eternity. What a selfish boyfriend (just kidding)
Great theory! Beautifully explained and crafted. Looking forward to more as we delve deeper into Rebirth!
Thanks for that info. That's pretty huge for what im talking about here. This is how i see Zack's reality being necessary in conjunction with Sephiroth's line: "but i....will not end."
Finally someone worthy to have a conversation with. Yes, you get it. The Sephiroth at the end of remake is from the far future and has seen the end of the planet but was unable to do anything to stop it far after the events of FF7 because he had no body. That's what I think.
This is a phenomenal video. Thank you for making this, I really enjoyed it. Your introduction about the game, fandom and content creation may as well have been about me! This is an amazing community. Keep up the good work.
Thanks so much, glad it resonated with you
What an amazing video! It prompted me to restart OG FF7 and read and actually try to comprehend the info dump at The Temple of the Ancients, though I'm only up to Junon at the moment. Hahaha!
In the first novella written for the OG... Aerith's perspective introduces that in the LifeStream, going back and forth through time is like going up or down. It could slow down to a halt, and speed up to see centuries fly by.
The Ultimania says that Sephiroth has stopped time 7 seconds from the planet's death, and is manipulating it's memories in the LifeStream...effectively altering the past.
The key art always depicted him with four whispers. There are exactly four whispers that act against whatever the other whispers are doing. One of them that speaks to Cloud does so in Sephiroth's voice.
all excellent info. im curious though if there is an actual quote stating that sephiroth is manipulating memories in the lifestream. i dont recall hearing about that directly from the devs. although of course i think that's pretty much what he's trying to do...
On the clock, consider this. In the entire compilation including remake, we have hexagons on everything. Art, menus, HUD, everything in every post-OG title, and these represent genetic memory. In rebirth, the menus have all changed. The main menu during gameplay shows the temple of the ancients. The HUD shows clocks. The themes have completely changed, now that we are no longer bound to the past.
Also, a fun one.... Nomura was at some point questioned about the many incarnations of the Nibelheim incident, including last order and crisis core which developed around the same time and still changed a critical moment. His response was did the final outcome change? Memories are fickle and fleeting, but the outcome (destiny) never changes.
In each one, we are meant to take away one thing, Sephiroth doesn't die and is alive when given the black materia.
But...in remake, he doesn't deny it, in fact he calls it a crowning achievement. He focuses and forces Cloud to remember him. To let the hate grow as he manifests himself more and more. In the Sephiroth fight, the song is unfamiliar but as you progress, it continues to get more and more familiar, until it becomes a mix of every song to recall everything... In the books, after he was killed in the OG he had to struggle to reclaim the memories he threw away to enhance meteor, to fully embrace mother. Furthermore, Sephiroth seems to be pushing away from mother.
Jenova can fly without wings, as can the puppets holding her. Sephiroth, Angeal, Genesis, all needed their wings. In remake, Sephiroth jumps in battle but doesn't fly until revealing his wing.
Jenova speaks little as Jenova-Roth. Tells Cloud not to deny her. Compliments the reunion, doesn't mention Cloud's name. Doesn't know or really care who he is beyond the puppet Cloud has always been to her.
In crisis core, all three of the winged friends succumbed. Genesis compelled to murder as he tried to find his cure. Angeal eventually unable to resist any further craves an honorable death. And Sephiroth came to get mother... Then, became her.
Thank You So Much for this! It is my dearest hope that this isn't a sequel but that it is an actual remake but certain characters like aerith and Sephiroth can see future possibilities
You're welcome! but as i said in the video i think it could be either with the information we have. Im not gonna be disappointed if it is a sequel.
However, my own personal sense is that it doesn't seem like sequel is the direction, because the entire story would basically boil down to Sephiroth being like, "okay ive got one chance now that the arbiter is gone to change some stuff to see if i win this time, ill do everything else exactly the same though and watch that all play out how i remember it." It just doesn't seem like that's what is happening. Even with Aerith, who knows more than she lets on, has moments where she has no clue what's going on. I can't confidently say it's a sequel where Aerith and Sephiroth have gone back for new game+ because of these things.
And furthermore, ff7 has a main character. Its Cloud. And in a sequel time travel story in this manner it would seem redundant to have Cloud go through his character arc again while having the cosmic time travel battle between Aerith and Sephiroth be the actual main thing.
The only thing i can think of currently would be that Cloud becomes aware of these things sometime around Temple of the Ancients or Mideel, "remembers" his Advent Children fight with Sephiroth and everything really takes a big turn for his persona, while also adding the sequel context around the weapons, the whispers, and meteor. The thing is, you dont need it to be a sequel even if this is the case, so im back to square one haha.
Fun fact: “Fate, Monstrous and empty,” or in Latin:
Sors Immanis Et inanus , is most likely a direct pull from the “O Fortuna,” which has the exact same line.
From wikipedia:
"O Fortuna" is a medieval Latin Goliardic poem which is part of the collection known as the Carmina Burana, written early in the 13th century. It is a complaint about Fortuna, the inexorable fate that rules both gods and mortals in Roman and Greek mythology.
fits perfectly
29:51 great great discussion here! Love this background on the whispers. I tend to think that the whispers are corrupted (by Jenova) arbiters of fate. I think it’s just an added unreliable narrator- the planet
Yea, and someone just pointed out to me that the whispers dont seem to think sephiroth is ever the problem. Could just be he's working under their radar and orchestrating us to get their attention though.
@@off-meta-michael I think it’s possible that during remake they are become active to defend against Sephiroth. And in the end of remake, he uses the party to defeat them? And possibly in rebirth, Jenova and he fully control them? It could go a lot of different ways
Amazing video! I also thought back to Temple of the Ancients when Whispers appeared in the Remake. And 'Cries of the Planet.' They kinda felt like the expanded versions of the same idea!
Excellent video. Spotlighting the Temple Of The Ancients is HUGE. In "Rebirth" there are no time guardians.....You meet the spirits of the Cetra which is a massive difference from the original and it kind of makes you wonder why the guardians are absent. Also, the addition of the Gi Spector sub plot with the black materia opens up a whole can of worms for the white and black whispers.
What if, and just spit-balling this one, the white whispers are the cetra and the black are a combination of the Gi Spectors as well as part of Sephiroth during his hibernation within the Northern Crater? And what if, Aeith's death is a "fixed event" but this time, her death is a noble sacrifice for the greater good of the Planet and to ultimately defeat Sephiroth? However it shakes out, the next game is bound to have players white knuckling to the conclusion.
FF7 is the #1 Video Game of all time!
Definitely top 5 for me!
Oh yes! ❤️ ❤️ ❤️
Indeed! #JenovasWitness
@@off-meta-michaelwhat great storyline would you put above 7? Just curious so I can play it lol
@K1LoFoX there is none, not even chrono trigger/xenogears can touch it.
Great vid, just a thought. When Sephiroth says "but I will not end, nor will I have you end," he is looking at the universe that is in the shape of the yellow flower. The way he says it does not seem he is referring to cloud since he doesn't end in the game. He may be referring to planet as the flower represents that, Aerith since she is also connected to it, or Omega from Dirge of Cerberus since he carries the life from one dying planet to another. They put all this effort in creating that scene for the audience who know the story.
It was confirmed that the nebula behind Cloud represents Destruction and the one behind Sephiroth represents Creation. Cloud is Destruction and Sephiroth is Creation.
Ah yea that's a good point, that he's kind of ignoring Cloud there and just infatuated by his plan to create his own reality/future.
A counter to this though is the idea that sephiroth needs Cloud to hold onto his "hatred" in order to keep sephiroth in his mind at all times so he can keep appearing and manipulating
@@mrplayfulshade yea i remember that as well. I think this fits well with the idea that sephiroth thinks he can save the planet while Cloud will only postpone the inevitable end by defeating Sephiroth.
Your video confirmed some of the thoughts I had. It's well made and thoroughly researched. It's been awhile since playing OG FF7, I might start playing it again this weekend looking for other clues muffled away by the devs. I watch a lot of other content creators for the new trilogy, but you're the first that I subscribed to. Keep on making this kind of videos.
Thanks man. I have another video in the works. I also make d2 content so if you see a bunch of those just know that the ff7 video will come out eventually still. Thanks for the sub!
Awesome Video! I have seen a lot of other theories from Sleepezi to Maximilian Dood. Yours fits in perfectly. Thank you and greetings from Germany. :)
Danke! Glad you liked it
A thought that's been running through my head since Remake and the whispers seemingly being so inline with letting the "current" Sephiroth continue unimpeded, keeping Destiny on the same track to OG's end (humans extinct 500 years in the future) is that what if Jenova, this so called "calamity" from the heavens is actually a part of the natural cycle? Part of the larger planetary level lifestream system that was meant to give life, death, and rebirth on the cosmological scale? Things could have just ended up really wonky due to human experimentation causing essences of Jenova to be paired with a conscious being--Sephiroth--which allowed his spirit to defy the consciousness merging with the lifestream and creating this hybrid force that is seemingly defying the rules (and maybe fully believing he is), but I almost wonder if it is ALL part of the capital D destiny, but not just of the force of the planet, but of the cosmos. That in the end, Sephiroth will be faced with the knowledge that it was all part of a bigger plan and his comeuppance will be a knock on any notions of Godhood that his ego has created through this process. I can't wait to see where they are going with the story!!
Just popped up on my feed randomly. This is an awesome video. Didn't seem like it was almost 45 minutes.
that's good dude, thanks
Having my Sunday afternoon coffee and finished this video. Awesome explanation and research, and very well done! Thanks for this! I'll have this on my mind during Rebirth. Enjoy your playthrough!
Thanks for watching the whole thing. Can't wait for Rebirth!
The unsurety that follows next will be amazing no matter the outcome. I really like your points and thankful for your elabaration. It would be insane to think these lines have no meaning and agree that there is something more to them.
Dude, im on board. I love that the unrelable narrator is still intact with this adaptation. We dont fully know the story even though we the OG inside and out, and to me, this is genius. We'll see how it all pans out of course when the trilogy is done, but im not gonna forget the years of intrigue and speculation that it created. Its been a blast ao far.
Nice video. I've seen you swap ideas on other videos for a while now and glad to see you taking the "next step". I played the OG when it came out, played it about as much as you have, and still forgot some of these points. This is why I think they went with "Remake" on a practical level - to bring the franchise's fan base back to page 1 after 20+ years of complilation entries that have frankly confused a few things along the way. I think even if you're right there's a big risk of a sloppy telling going forward though. Time "travel" in terms of seeing the past is one thing, manipulating it is another which opens up never-ending story entries and offshoots. The stagnant world theory is great though - sort of a purgatory, where Jessie's dad is.
When considering why we would need another timeline/reality, i really couldn't come up with a better narrative reason than this. The stagnant reality makes the most sense with Sephiroth's plan, and also would keep zack and aerith from joining the lifestream if they are trapped there or killed there. They could also tie Geostigma to this concept if they wanted.
@@off-meta-michael I figure it all comes down to why is Zack alive, and therefore who made that happen (planet or Sephiroth)? Or was it a mistake and the whispers merely failed to ensure he died? Your idea obviously relies on Sephiroth, but what if the planet is using him to counteract the main party somehow? Nothing "good" comes from that timeline it seems.
Michael, this is an incredible, absolutely outstanding video and contribution to the FF7 community. I was beaming from ear to ear how evidence driven and carefully you unpacked your theory, and supplied us with ample evidence to ruminate on the facts. I couldn’t be more grateful. Subscribed (I like D2 as well!) and I hope you make more FF7 videos in the future. I hope the FF7 community embraces you with open arms! Phenomenal job! 🎉
Wow thank you so much! Such high praise, im honored dude
@@off-meta-michael I was especially inspired by your introduction as a commentator who is stepping up to the plate to share love for the series. Pushes me to put my voice out there too! Nicely done 👏 praise well earned.
Maybe the Artbiter of Fate is like the Weapons. The Weapons are there to protect Gaia. The Arbiter is similar but wants to protect destiny.
It's definitely possible, except the color scheme of the harbinger, its name, and original concept for the cloaked figures (which became the whispers) all point to some kind of jenova influence. We'll see!
Btw in the OG if you watch the planetarium scene, the CG stops on a black hole, which black holes in Japanese better translate back as singularities.
Since you touched on Bugenhagen, note when Sephiroth says it, he quotes Loveless, almost word for word as Genesis did in crisis core about how the planet suffers.
16:23 it’s stated in Lifestream Black that Cloud (or rather his hatred memories towards Sephiroth) is served as an anchor for Sephiroth to come back, since he already let go of his previous memories and focus on Cloud’s memories of him, since the stronger the memories, the deeper is Cloud’s trauma, the more he can pull from that and come back to the living world. That’s why he wants Cloud to live, but still vulnerable and malleable to serve his end.
Yes, this is why in chapter two he taunts him with his mother's dying words and tells him to hold on that "hatred." I didnt mention this in order to stay focused on topic. However, i was also considering that we dont know what further purpose he could have for cloud, especially "7 seconds until the end"
Thanks for sharing this info!
@@off-meta-michael since I think Sephiroth needs Jenova cells to maintain presence on the surface (Advent Children), Cloud is also a healthy supply, at least ig until he attains godhood. By that time, all living beings including Cloud would maybe be forced to return to the Lifestream to become one with him as he said at the end of OG 7, perhaps by a massacre on a planet level (maybe with Chaos in Vincent or Omega Weapon).
@@SoSakashii yea that tracks
Yeah man great video I’ll subscribe. I remember thinking as a kid the blocked doors on the path of the giant clock were gateways to the past or future that were locked
7:22 I am only this far in and excited to see the rest. But I had a theory awhile back about this image. If we look at this image, it’s actually a different version of the events. Like technically it could be the same occurrence, but the angles we see are different. Even the animation of her falling and the white materia being released is different from the moment we see this in the main story. Just wanted to throw this out there that while it is clearly a past event, I believe it could even be a different version of this event.
+7 points for your video Michael!
This video has not only shed some light on the things that I've overlooked when I first played FF7 as a kid, but have expanded my views on the things to come with the Remake Trilogy.
I appreciate you adding to the conversation that gets me more hyped for Rebirth!
Probably one of the best theory videos. 😊
BIG THANKS
this video is INSANE IM GOING CRAZY ITS AMAZING
Yeah I remember thinking this puzzle was kinda odd.
Pretty sure it was inside of the Black Materia pyramid thing.
Gonna be checking this out right awaaaay!
Oh my gosh the lore master himself is stopping by? NICE to see you dude! Im stoked that my video reached you. So awesome what you've contributed to the ff7 community.
This is was such a great video! It's also worth pointing out that the Whisper that hangs over Cloud in his bedroom in Chapter 4 is speaking in Sephiroth's voice. The whispers never once attack Sephiroth in remake even though he is supposed to be the greatest threat to the planet?
Thank you so much for this, so hyped!
That's a great point. They never seem to think he's intervening in destiny's course.
yes but do remember when barret dies the whispers prevent it so they are not aligned.
Dont they try and stop him directly after stabbing Barret? It just seems he's too powerful and just slashes them away though. Not only that but they're seemingly there because of stuff that Sephiroth's doing.
an interesting thought provoking take. much appreciated
Thanks! Your comment reminds me of Red XIII after Cloud tells his story in the Kalm Inn
After 23 years I am now just realizing OG FF7 does indeed have time travel. WHAT!!! 😱🤯
Reading the text dialogue in old school JRPGs is like reading a book, if you skip certain things you miss very important relevant details in them that you wouldn’t think exists, glad to see someone took their time connecting the dots and showing that elements in Remake are not entirely new concepts and that exist in the Original but they are making it more apparent this time around, good analysis video overall the best I’ve seen👍
Great theory! I thought there wouldn’t be any more theories until after Rebirth. This makes the most sense of Sephiroth and his motives. I was resolute in believing Remake is a sequel, but this convinces me that it could go either way
There are good reasons to see it both ways for sure. Will be discussing further with the next video.
I think you nailed it! Great job and nice video!
Nice! Ive been playing the OG at least once a year since 1999. I can definitely get behind this theory. Good sources and ideas. Great Sephiroth impressions as well lol
Ive played it about that much as well. Ive noticed that people who REALLY know the OG seem to be more accepting of the Remake project and have a lot of fun with all the theories in general, whereas people who remember ff7 fondly but haven't played it in a while think Remake is some kind of "nomura fever dream" or "fan fiction"
This is actually what drove me to make this first video. Thanks for checking it out. I have two more on the channel. Its all in a playlist.
@@off-meta-michael yeah I agree with you. I'm ready for the "unknown journey". As you said in one of your videos, the OG game becomes really easy after a while and I could beat it blindfolded at this point. I'm excited to see how things turn out in the upcoming installments and I'm just grateful to have been able to experience Remake and the Rebirth Demo. Keep up the good work man, you got my sub!
@@off-meta-michaelHi, it's interesting that you say this, because I'm in a similar situation (Play original FF7 annually), but the friend group I regularly discuss FF7 with disliked the new story elements of Remake (Zack's fate, Whispers, Sephiroth's new presentation, etc.) despite knowing the original very, very well. I think my friends and I would be in what's labeled the "purist" camp to Remake fans.
And I do not mean to disparage any of the compilation/remake fans when I say this, but I think the FF7 community at large just valued different things about the original story (themes, concepts, importance of certain characters/moments, etc.) and it just may not be possible to reconcile all of those differences in the FF7R trilogy.
I think our community just might be fractured into our little subgroups now, forever thinking the other side: "Just doesn't understand what made FF7 special." Because we took certain parts of it to be the story's "true meaning/value."
Not sure how to feel about that state of things, but that just seems to be inevitable at this point looking at the discussions since Remake's release. (And since the Compilation really).
This is such a good video !! I loved hearing your take on what's going to happen in the new game and i totally never even thought about the stagnant reality part but it actually makes so much sense.
My assumption since I first played through FF7 is that by killing Sephiroth in the crater and dumping him into the lifestream it allowed the Jenova cells, which have already been established to be able to mess with memory, to infect the lifesream and thus alter history via the planets memory.
Iirc its already official that the original FF7 is technically the "bad ending" so the remake is a sequel that happens along the same flow of events with the goal being the good ending.
that all makes sense, but it is still unclear if having future sight means direct sequel or expansion on the themes of fate. as i show in my video there are heavy fate themes that can be easily overlooked. this is also why a lot of people go with the "Remaquel" term.
imagine if ff7 OG didn't exist and Remake came out for the first time as ff7, it would still make sense as a story.
im okay with either direction for the story as i said in the video. one other reason i lean toward it not being a sequel is because it seems like Aerith and Sephiroth know a lot but not everything, especially Aerith. there's even a line from when you fight Sephiroth in the singularity where he says to Aerith, "can you not see your future?"
furthermore, the character growth of everyone is a major part of Rebirth. the idea that they could "remember" these pivotal moments from the OG timeline just makes me kinda wonder why we would rehash them? and so it really blurs the line between sequel and remake at the very least and it's hard to say one way or the other.
After this amazing dive into what has happened so far, I am getting the feeling that it might be a sequel and that the name "Remake" is that future that Sephiroth has built, and Rebirth is how its giving Birth into this new reality and now the third one will be the conclusion of whatever will happen. If not, I'm still happy and mind-blown. So thank you my G for your time and sharing all of this content. Props 2u
Wow good theory and there is time material and squaresoft not shy of time travel. FF8 and FFX
Great analysis! To me as well the whole fate/destiny themes were always pretty prominent in OG, but I totally glossed over the Time Guardian. Thanks for pointing that out. Also this video makes me extra excited how the Temple of the Ancients segment will play out in Rebirth. Keep the FFVII theory/vids coming 🤓!
The temple is also featured in the background of the party menus in Rebirth. Seems like they are featuring this for some purpose. The Temple is so important to moving the plot along in OG, i imagine it will be pretty wild in Rebirth. Trying to keep my hype in check but kinda hard not to be excited about it haha
@@off-meta-michael Yeah same lol!
@@off-meta-michael I just finished Rebirth. I was just curious if you also had finished it and if so are you gonna share your thoughts about it?
@@verussadap hey, yea i have. Im still working out the video for it and what i wanna say. Theres a lot!
@@off-meta-michael Hahah yeah I bet, my mind is also working overtime as to what exactly happened lol. Should you need someone to spar with theory-wise I'm always up for it! In any case I will wait and see what you're cooking ;).
Superb video ace!
Great insight and clearly explained.
I recognise your profile pic from my many scrolls down YT comment sections so we follow the same guys for sure.
Sephiroths 'listen' response to Cloud has just taken a badass tone to it now.
Loved the connection of Sephiroth and Bugenhagens thinking of the inevitable demise of the planet and the implications of its cries too.
I have no personal theory but i just love the conversations people have and the ideas it brings.
Thanks for the time and effort you put into making this, really.
Not often I come across not only new, but valid and interesting points regarding the new trilogys direction.
Thanks very much! The prep for the video did take a large amount of time so thanks for noticing
@judestongue Not at all.
It shows.
Stay safe ace.
What a great and chill video. TH-cam boosting smaller channels recently has put the spotlight on some great creators. Would be super interested to hear your thoughts on other theories or predictions you have for rebirth!
hey, thanks a lot! i definitely could talk more about ff7
Enjoying all of this! With all that we have now on the table it's easy to say they're making a sequel. If Sefirot and Aeris have not ended this is clearly a sequel.
I love how have you connected all of this with the OG. Great work!
I'm kind of speechless here. This is one of the most well crafted, well researched theory videos out there. Very impressive. I'm kind of on board here and cannot wait to see what happens in Rebirth.
The only question I have, is what is Zack's importance to the story with this theory, if Sephiroth really wants to create a reality where he would rule over all basically.
Zack is arguably the 2nd stronger SOLDIER to ever exist.
How does keeping somebody alive, who will most definitely end up being a threat to his plans in this world, benefit him?
Is it because he cannot help that Zack would be stuck in this "stagnate" reality?
Because that's just how the rules works?
I always thought that right before the Whispers got controlled by Sephiroth, which I think is what ended up happening at the end of Remake, they somehow went to another "timeline", and kept Zack alive, as a desperate attempt to combat Sephiroth.
Even though Zack is supposed to die, the Whispers saw Sephiroth as such a big threat, that they decided to change fate, the one that they desire to protect, in an effort for one of the strongest SOLDIERS to ever live, survive and combat Sephiroth to restore the balance of how things were supposed to be.
I really want to hear your thoughts on these questions.
a few possibilites.
1. aerith's white portal at the highway is not explained as of yet. when the first portion of the zack vision ends it swoops out of Aerith's face. perhaps she knows what the stagnate reality is and alters the whispers at that moment to save him knowing he will be their wild card in that reality. the whispers don't seem to change things only keep them on track, so either aerith or sephiroth have to have a hand in making sure the whispers save him.
2. we may have defeated the arbiter in time before the whispers could ensure zack's death, and he lives but isn't supposed to. we see this reality seems to have destruction, the crack in the sky, the party presumably all dead...it seems like sephiroth has very few obstacles in this reality, except zack, and so his purpose would be to figure out why cloud and aerith are asleep, and discover sephiroth's role in the stagnate reality that he is trapped in. as the player the mystery of this world would unfold and help push the plot of sephiroth's end game.
3. another would be sephiroth controlling the whispers to save zack, in order to capture him in the stagnate reality to mess with cloud later. cloud will break if he sees zack alive. or perhaps sephiroth can show cloud that he can save the dead in his version of the future, which entices cloud to believe in sephiroth's plan of defying destiny. zack's role here would be like i said above of discovering the nature of this reality, but also being a catalyst to some difficult choices and truths for cloud.
4. it could be that the zack plot is in the future and it's made to look like a second timeline, but really it's the outcome of saving aerith from death. zack's role here would be to once again unravel the mystery of the nature of this reality. it could even flash back to aerith walking to the capitol by herself once we discover this. we'll be completely on edge of what could happen. this would also explain why we see marlene there, kyrie there, elmyra, etc. if sephiroth has his future taking shape then that could explain the crack in the sky, why elmyra says the world is ending, and explain why marlene warns of a scary man that's going to kill aerith when she wakes up. if the stagnate reality is achieved and aerith is killed there, she won't be able to get to the lifestream and sephiroth will be able to rid the world of lifestream using meteor and only have the stagnate reality left over. zack's role here would be to protect aerith in the stagnate reality and find a way out.
5. biggs has a line in the one of the newer trailers where he's trying to understand why he got "a free pass" and everyone else didn't make it. i immediately surmised that zack and him are trying to figure out how they both survived. we also hear zack recounting to someone how hes "feeling every bullet" or in japanese "it was windy" assuming the whispers helped. perhaps he and biggs are swapping stories of how they thought they died but made it anyway. theses type of conversations would support what i said about unraveling the mystery of the reality.
These are all good points. This is a darker theory, but one I never thought of.
What if Sephiroth saved Zack, knowing that he had Jenova cells in him, and will try and use him as his “instrument” in this reality, in whatever way he sees fit, possibly even at the end of the game against the party as some sort of “evil Zack” or something.
Idk, just something I thought of while sleeping haha.
Either way, no matter what happens, I believe in the team at Square and am confident they will deliver us some great storytelling here.
We have to remember, this is their art. They can do what they want with it, and we need to keeps our expectations in check.
I’ve never been more excited for a release man.
@@zachdixon413 The research papers in the Shinra basement where the experiments were done specifically mentioned that one of the subjects did not respond to either Jenova cells or the mako, so I don't think this is a real possibility...
@@benn93z28 Doesn’t meant it can’t be activated. I always thought that they never messed with Zack like they did with Cloud because Zack is so him, and knows who he is.
If some stuff really goes sideways, in his “reality”, he could break down, and become mentally unstable, and they could activate.
Idk man. Just a theory.
We have no proof why exactly, he resisted it or if it’s a permanent resistance.
@@zachdixon413 Shoot anything is possible, but all what we know so far is that Zack was never susceptible perhaps because he's both mentally stronger and didn't have the insecurities and childhood trauma that Cloud had.
Wow, the screams of the planet and the screams of the shipers sound really similar too.
Absolutely astonishing video. You did great. Love this! Like button hit 👍
@judestongue 6 to 8+ mins in... These do set a precedent for being able to see past (and future memories). For each one, the catalyst is either magic, a consciousness, device or LifeStream. Since even remake tells us cetra devices are powered by mako aka LifeStream, and Jenova/Sephiroth's abilities are also due to negative/alien LifeStream as ff7 is part of the basis for the basic plot of The Spirits Within: alien LifeStream came on a big rock and is trying to colonize the new planet.
We can safely say LifeStream memories and the consciousness of the planet, something important in the OG, is the means with which this is done. Themes in the compilation also support this, as does some OG quotes, like Tifa's about how memories in the mind can be altered to make you believe anything, but memories of the heart can only tell the truth.
If you follow Flower Maiden, they introduce whispers, a pink whisper, and the ability and concept of moving through time. However there are limits to what one can do, and resistances.
10:36 Fun fact... Jenova is speaking a lot as Sephiroth. Jenova is Jehovah-God Nova-New. New God. God complexes. Minerva, representing the LifeStream, is referred to as a goddess. LifeStream versus LifeStream. Planet versus planet. When worlds merge.
Very well done. I like that you have shown evidence to prove either outcome and maybe this is really what Square-Enix is doing in order to appease both camps.
I appreciate the logical thought processes. Sephiroth Parroting what bugenhagen says in order to soften the info dump is smart.
Also it’s nuts to me that I really did not seem to fully grasp the concept that Sephiroth fears death and losing himself , and that Aerith is basically trying to preserve the fate of their planet. I always think of them trying to SAVE the planet. And the ending makes you think they did.. which, maybe you’re right and maybe she resets it somehow so it doesn’t die… it’s a total mind fuck to think about for me.
This video was extremely fascinating and well made! I really like your narration and how you voice your thoughts and theory. I would be really interested to hear your thoughts about Rebirth on how your theory holds up once the game has been released. Thank you for making this :)
Yea man, i am totally open minded to whatever happens and my theory here has basically set me up to not be disappointed by anything. Ill cover it for sure, because you KNOW they are gonna pull something in Rebirth that has us questioning everything again for part 3. They have to in order to keep the intrigue and hype going.
Just found your channel and thoroughly enjoyed your detailed examples and explanations. This very closely goes along with a theory I developed overtime and filled in some gaps. I speculated that Sephiroth somehow timetraveled and your video explained how it could have happened.
During the recent theatrical re-release of Advent children in the pre interview Nomura and crew confirmed that advent children fans will have tie ins from the movie in rebirth. To me it’s obvious we’re dealing with post advent children Sephiroth at end of Remake. (He has black wing 🪽 which doesn’t come until AC & Dissidia) and he has knowledge of those events and even quotes a rebuttal to Cloud you mentioned: “I will never be a memory” to Cloud’s “Stay where you belong, in my memories.”
I have a crazy theory that Sephiroth might even get a redemption arc as he realizes the true villain and now knows the truth about Jenova. The real villains are Jenova and Hojo. She poisoned the lifestream and to finally resolve this he must want Cloud’s help to accomplish this somehow. Why he needs Clouds strength in particular eludes me. In the recent rebirth trailer they’re talking to a being asking for the black materia to “end the cycle” I wonder if Sephiroth knows/thinks that there is a way to continue living instead of everyone being doomed to repeat this endless time loop and resolve the situation somehow. Or he’s simply just as evil as ever and is manipulating everyone to change it so he survives and “sails the galaxy with this planet as his vessel” as he said before. We’ll soon find out more on this eve of Rebirth. Kudos if you read all that lol. Great content man. Can’t wait to see more.
Hey thanks for sharing your theory!
I do have more in this playlist if you're interested. Thanks man! TWO DAYS until Rebirth
th-cam.com/play/PLd9O2b2YPpJp6sPL-GHa4Uvr2SB5g9NNG.html&si=J2nUHB-_cwKH1od0
@@off-meta-michael Cool I’ll definitely check those out now. It feels like the longest 24 -48 hours in history lmao. I’ll need something to keep my mind busy haha.
@@Modioman69 cool dude, it will def help pass the time!
When the third installment of this trilogy is complete, I believe we’ll be talking about this being the best gaming trilogy of all time.
Bro, even if this ends up being wrong when it comes to Rebirth, it's still totally compelling. Very good comparison. And thanks for the shoutout.
Hey thanks man, you actually read one of my comments in a video once like a year ago talking about some ff7 stuff. Can't remember what i wrote though or what it was about ha
@@off-meta-michael Yeah, you gave your suggestions on the order to play the FF7 compilation. There was probably some other stuff about time travel, too.
@@joshuathomas386 oh yea that's right. If i recall correctly i may have said for people who are just getting started they could play Remake alone and play OG if they want but my point was that Remake should be sufficient as a trilogy and playing anything else will broaden your understanding but won't be totally required to understand the story and characters. I believe this because i the devs have said you could even start your ff7 journey with Rebirth. Even if the sequel idea is the main story direction there should be enough context in this trilogy to understand what is being defied or changed.
I forgot about this part that it slipped my mind. The Temple of the Ancients and getting the black materia.
What if just Cloud and the party just being in the Temple of the Ancients, they traveled through time just by messing with the clock?
Cloud also became a traveler of the lifestream…
What if it’s activates a fail safe and distorted their dimensions.
the original ff7 i think only red survived, like meteor hit but it only wiped out humanity so the planet could heal, aeriths assistance at the end wasn't her trying to stop meteor but was her attempting to change time to give them a chance to a do over as she knew meteor was inevitable. Who knows what knowledge she learnt from the ancients while she was in their domain having visions and stuff
I was wondering if you'd delve into LOVELESS. Seems very shrouded in mystery, and one of the verses says "Legend shall speak of sacrifice at world's end". It didnt seem like the world is ending in Crisis Core, so i can only assume that LOVELESS is cryptically hinting at what will happen at the end of the trilogy.
PLUS, the devs said in part 2, the party will play out a rendition of LOVELESS, and the outcome will be impacted by your relationships with each character.
In Crisis Core, it seems more like the "3 heroes" of the poem are moreso related to Angeal, Genesis and Sephiroth. But since its being incorporated into Rebirth, i think it has far more significance outside of Crisis Core.
So i didnt cover that at all because its not in the OG. Remake does have that NPC in sector 7 saying the end of the play has a new ending though. Seems like a hint for sure.
What I was thinking of for a long time after playing remake was this: Aeris -Aerith- knows the events of the original, and Sephiroth also knows the events of the original, and sephiroth isn't going to turn out to be the big bad that he once was. He understands the timeline and will either end up helping everyone by pulling the sacrifice play or him and Aries will concoct something to change things. The team has already said that they are taking inspiration leading into dirge of Cerberus and Advent children's worlds. Since they are tying them all together. We still have Genesis to deal with.
The sephiroth redemption theory is definitely not happening. Thereis no way they added extra scenes with sephiroth for part 1 in order to introduce the "real" villain later. The devs have also said several times that sephiroth is the most powerful villain, that there is no one above him, and that more context for his character is being shown in order to make him more relatable. I would be completely shocked if remake was being made in order to redeem sephiroth. As i show in my video, sephiroth's goal of saving the planet is not good natured, he wants to preserve it in an unnatural way that has him ruling over everything. This is in the OG and told to us in Remake if you pay attention. Thanks for the comment dude. If you're right about sephiroth redemption theory ill be sure to give you a shoutout, but i see no evidence for it currently
@@off-meta-michael oh I totally agree That's why I said at the beginning of the post was that I was thinking about it. It'd be wild if they did that but ultimately no lol. Aerith definitely knows and if they do have her show to us and to cloud and co. that she's been speaking to her other self from the OG 7 I would be surprised and at the same time if they don't I would also not be surprised. I just hope this next game isn't going to fall into the same cliche written easily identifiable narrative that other games in the past two or three years have fallen into. You know when you play a game and you're roughly a quarter of the way or halfway through it and then it just clicks and you realize piece by piece what's going to happen until the end and it actually happens lol? Kind of like a poorly written movie. I doubt that it's going to be that way but you never know.
Just stumbled upon your video. I loved this breakdown! It's like the whole talk if fate was happening, even back in the original! It's mad how detailed the devs were thinking back then! Good shout looking at the sephiroth lyrics too! I love your sephiroth impressions btw 😊
Thank you so much! I was wondering before Rebirth came out if my ff7 videos would become irrelevant and so im glad people can still enjoy them and get something out of the parallels and precedences that i show.
I will be doing more videos on Rebirth, but im waiting until more people have completed it and i have still been thinking about it myself still. Should be soon though.
Started out the video skeptical, but you were extremely persuasive, kudos!
I don’t know if you noticed, but the howls of the planet are the same as whisperers. The sound is the howls of the planet. Let alone cloud is the outlier in terms of Zack the person meant to be a soldier 1st class to be the hero. Cloud was everything not to be. That could be the saving grace of things but then also the defying factor in some way. Let alone in advent and the closing credits it take place 100 years after. 2 alternate events possibly two ending along with your therory.
This is what ive been saying from the start, everything that happened in remake can be explained using the original game
Ive thought the same as well, but i don't think we should diminish the idea that the compilation is canon and being incorporated as well as the possibility that this is supposed to be a sequel. As i said, i tend to believe it is a remake and not a direct sequel to the OG, but there are several nagging details that could prove otherwise. Overall, im cool with either direction because the OG allows for these types of deviations and elements in my opinion. Thanks for the comment dude!
@@off-meta-michael im in the same boat interms of im happy either way, im just more inclined to believe it truly is a remake, the more i replay the OG and remake itself the more im convinced
@@TeAXIIIT13 yea, i think so as well. I think my biggest hang up right now about the sequel idea is that it would seem very advantageous for Sephiroth to just kill Tifa as soon as he sees her now that the whispers are "gone." But as we've seen in yhe trailers he is trying to pit Cloud against her and make him question if she is really her. Also, at the whirlwind maze we see an illusion of her at one point. It really seems like they are expanding that detail by introducing all this doubt about who Cloud can trust. And once again, this doesn't seem like a sequel plot point, but more so an expansion of an OG idea in order to develop these plot points more naturally into the story. Anyway, its so interesting to me!
@@off-meta-michael i agree with most of what you said, i dont believe sephiroth will “target tifa instead” though. We know the whispers are still about, what we dont know is if what weve been told about them is true (i believe they are more to do with sephiroth than arbiters of fate)
I'm subscribing even though I'm not interested in Diablo at all just because your theory video was both compelling and really clearly explained and I'm curious to see what you have to say about this later.
Thanks, yea im gonna be doing both games and once rebirth is out there will be more to theorize about
The thing that makes me believe this is a sequal is because of the interactions between Sephiroth and the whispers in Remake. Sephiroth makes Cloud hallucinate and follow him down an alley way after blowing up the first reactor to prevent Cloud from meeting Aerith. RIGHT AFTER you meet Aerith because the whispers are holding her there. If this isn't a sequal, and Sephiroth isn't attempting to change events, then I dont know how they explain it.
Also, Zack is alive.
Yea and that is valid. The game tells us destiny's course is a part of what is being tampered with and we are lead to believe this course is the original, thereby necessarily making it a sequel.
However, if i block out the possibility of a sequel and think about why these things are happening, its not hard to come up with another explanation:
sephiroth leading cloud into the alley is part of the process of gaining influence on Cloud's mind. "Good cloud, hold on to that hatred" is said after this seqeuence, sephiroth is pleased with how well the interaction went. During the reactor we only saw a feather fall and that was the first distraction into cloud's psyche by sephiroth. We know sephiroth will continue to appear to cloud and place lies in his head for his own purposes later in the story.
Zack being alive would be more of a continuation for him after crisis core, so more like a sequel to crisis core. Because in the OG zack's sacrifice is actually a hidden scene that's only available after Cloud rejoins and you go back to shinra mansion in nibelheim. We see zack in advent children as well. So you could argue zack being in Remake and surviving is going to help flesh out the mystery of sephiroth's end game, but also be a pivotal role in tying together compilation elements and stories. Like i said, zack dying in OG was a missable scene, so him being alive now is less of a direct sequel to OG and more of a compilation incorporation. But i am aware even without this hidden scene the OG heavily heavily implies he didn't make it. But since this is no longer a mystery of the OG they are repurposing the mystery of zack for the remake.
Aerith being held by whispers to meet Cloud could be more nuanced. The whispers seem to have jenova influence based on their design. Aerith is the last cetra. destiny's course could be a red herring for jenova's corruption of the lifestream. Cloud has jenova cells. Bringing them close together could be less so making sure OG events occur and more so lets kill her by controlling Cloud eventually and here's the first puzzle piece.
Aerith acting like she knows cloud already could be explained by her ability to speak to the dead and know things before they happen as the OG showed she could do as a little girl.
Overall, you can make either concept work and honestly it is kinda both depending on how you look at it.
YOOOO this was great!!!!
Babyseal!!! My dude, THANK YOU. Your videos over the last 3 years have been absolutely excellent. Im very happy my video reached you.
yo yo yo
brother you just blew my fucking mind
Haha thanks dude
I think a sequel remake is indeed what SE were hinting at. If anything, as a nod towards how many people have played and completed the original countless times - suggesting an endless cycle that we can't escape. The remake potentially is us / the characters breaking that cycle. Although who are we kidding, we'll be playing all 3 parts of the remake over and over again until the planet explodes 😂
Uhh, it connects very well with my view on the last Scene where we beat Sephiroth in Remake. Many say that Sephiroth absorbs the whispers but for me it all way long seems like they ARE Sephiroth und we are just tricked into thinking that he absorbed them. Thank you for your Video. 👌
Always thought that Remake in FFVII title was not about remake of a game, but more of a remake of the events, faith, world etc. That's why second part is not titled Remake 2 but Rebirth.
Great video! I've been wondering whether it was Square Enixes conspiracy that all marketing and most of the content creators kinda omit the topic of the Planet's life cycle lol
If anything they’re going to incorporate elements that Final Fantasy IX has also used in the past on how the perception of time can impact memories, commenting on the immutable truth of an person or an event’s existence:
Memory begets time
Time overlaps
And the overlap is comprised of a stream of memories
Thus the lifestream is the cornerstone of existence.
How can you prove one’s existence if there is no memory of it?
Great stuff Michael, loved this take!
Hey! Thanks very much. I have listened to several of your video essays. You have a very naturally pleasing voice and are probably one of the most articulate people ive ever heard talk about final fantasy. It seems to come easy to you. Im glad my video reached you!
@judestongue Thanks, that means lot. I hope you continue with your own analysis as your own cadence and delivery is fantastic - casually essaying as you do on camera is an enviable skill 😅
These "remade ideas" are actually very good, on paper. It's Square's excecution that is the main issue. . . A big one is not when Sephiroth is revealed but how.
How much better would it have been if he was another character, entirely? Maybe it's strange but this has already happened in both OG and the movie (disguised as Jenova and the remnants).
Better still, DMCV littlerally split the main antagonist into two completely new characters, that each share that much between them. This was probably the best idea I've seen for character reintroduction, for the past decade.
Comparing that to how Sephiroth is just shoved right into our faces. . .
A trilogy that doesn't introduce the villain in the first game wouldn't work that well in my opinion. As i showed in the video, Remake is doing a better job of avoiding the info dump at Temple of the Ancients in the OG and setting up all the pieces to show how that plan is accomplished. Whether it's better than the original is just subjective and preference. We can't go back to 1997 when no one knew the ff7 story at all. We'll see how it plays out once all 3 games are done.
Thanks for the comment!
@@off-meta-michael Funny, 'cus remake Sephiroth doesn't actually 'say' any antagonistic things. So he might not even be the villian, as such.
Also, I was always personally convinced that Sephiroth was always dead, after Crisis Core. And it was just Jenova in his guise.
That later point has make me think that remake Sephiroth, and/or even Aeris, are also Jenova!! This would have been the real target Square's story should've aimed for. An antagonist that is a surprise reveal for all fans and newcomers. Not an iconic, yet motivationless old fart! xD
@@misapheonix Sephiroth is 'dead' but in the Lifestream, his will was too strong to die, and so he is manipulating Jenova to take on his appearance which is what we confront throughout the game until the events at the Northern Crater at which time his physical body is released. The Ultimania Omega states "He didn’t fall under Jenova’s sway but rather seized control and assumed command over her actions. This development gives us a sense of the extraordinary strength the lifeform known as Sephiroth possesses."
FWIW, there are multiple incarnations of Sephiroth in Remake. The one that appears at the end of the game is different from the OG Sephiroth which essentially makes him 'the real villain' in FFVIIR.
So, from that perspective, you could say the villain wasn't truly revealed to us until the very end of Remake.
@@misapheonixNa I don't like that idea
Bustamante: confirms and exposes F7R's main plot secrets
The FBI and Square Enix: "STAY RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE!!"
Haha. I dont want that kind of heat! Well they havent come for me yet, so maybe im totally wrong?