Blackmagic URSA Cine 17K with 65mm Sensor Explained
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 เม.ย. 2024
- ► Read more: www.cined.com/blackmagic-ursa...
On the show floor at NAB 2024, we stopped by Blackmagic Design’s booth to learn more about their upcoming URSA Cine 17K from Business Development Manager Stuart Ashton. The camera is still under development and won’t start shipping before the end of this year, but we could still get an idea of what is all about. Let’s take a look!
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Can't wait for the Pocket 17K.
DJI Pocket 17k :D
I can wait.
Also called, "Sinatra's Wallet"
Pocket 12k would be crazy lol
I care more about the sensor size than the resolution - hoping there's an 8k or even 4k full sensor downsampled mode
It’s really impressive and if there weren’t companies like black magic, pushing these boundaries, then the industry would just settle. 🤘🏼🙌🏼
all they are pushing are specs on a paper... meanwhile actual image quality will be mediocre at best. It is interesting that BMD loves to talk about specs and numbers meanwhile ARRI shows actual footage in most demanding lighting conditions possible.
@@jeffsaffron5647well that is the thing. This company does show the other specs and Black magic is not at good at stuff like low light performance and the real world stuff.
So it’s just average besides for some specific stats and feel.
Though this specific camera will be the first “borderline medium format” cinema you can easily get. Which is a big deal and will likely be the next major upgrade in the industry
Why it’s amazing there is like twelve cinema camera companies when just a few years ago there was like 3.
You know arri basically was forced to upgrade there cameras.
That's never been the case with BM image....
next years video: "Blackmagic URSA Cine 30K with IMAX Sensor Explained"
Probably in 2028...
😂 I’m here for it
lol isn’t a 65mm sensor an imax sensor already? Or is that sensor larger.
@@SamWelker True IMAX film (horizontal projection) it's 3x times the area of standard 65mm film
And yet no major production will use it...
The "BlackMagic" name becomes more and more appropriate😂
no diddy
They are living up to the name. 🤣
Honestly, what they need to do is convince a notable Hollywood DP to shoot a film on this, similar to what happened with The Creator. People won't believe the hype until a "legit" film utilizes it, even if BMD products are as legit as can be.
Exactly my thoughts
The issue is for a lot of specs blackmagic is pretty bad. Basically anything besides controlled environments you are much better of using a different camera. Unless this one is different from all the BM other cameras trends.
@@AL-lh2ht A Sony FX3 is inferior to a CC6K in a lot of areas - there would be no comparison to this beast. The main reason BM is less likely to be tested in cinema is not specs but reliability. No option to extend the 1 year warranty, which wouldn't be a problem if their cameras were more serviceable like Arri & Sony etc.
I've always wanted BMD to make a balls to the wall camera, make a camera with everything you've got, the highest end cinema camera, they finally did it.
You got owned with your “not an A Cam” comment. I love his confidence.
The term A cam is a on-set designation. If you film your feature film project entirely in 17K over two months there will be massive storage and post production implications. When I film on Alexa I often shoot 4444 for this exact reason and not RAW. “A Cam” doesn’t mean “the best cam”.
@@grahamesheldon1487But it seems with the URSA Cine line BMD is really gunning to be included in A-Cam conversations in any scenario from low to high budget productions, so I think Stuart was trying to gently push back against your speculation that its uses might be limited to plate shots and VFX backgrounds. I agree about the storage issues though, especially if this is meant to bring that IMAX-level capability to mid and low budget productions that won't have access to big post houses with petabytes of dedicated storage. Not necessarily insurmountable challenges if they're willing to maintain a proxy workflow until the final render, but will still definitely be something producers should think about when budgeting.
I'm a big fan of this 17K sensor. I think they glossed over an obvious usecase, outside of vfx plates - Major Hollywood films could use BMD cameras to shoot 65mm IMAX content and deliver at 12K+, which is around what film IMAX is. If BMD releases their own super-resolution projector capable of displaying 12K+ content, we might see some really amazing visuals in films and it might be a giant leap in digital filmmaking and theatrical releases. Sure, we have Arri, but even a film shot on Arri won't give us the resolution IMAX film is known for. This reminds me of when RED made their first camera and how they changed the filmmaking landscape back then.
" If BMD releases their own super-resolution projector capable of displaying 12K+ content"
Which they won't, this is fantasy talk at the moment
@@vlcthefish At the moment, you've said so yourself. A 12K sensor was fantasy talk as well.
@@joellouisfire That analogy makes no sense. 12k sensor was never a fantasy scenario because Blackmagic makes cameras lmao. Camera company making a higher resolution camera is not a stretch.
Blackmagic isn't in the business of selling niche commercial projectors that can cost millions of dollars. Thats what you are suggesting. Blackmagic magically starts making a multi million dollar projector that is 12k out of the gate with no prior experience. Doesn't even make sense what you are saying. You're just vomiting out random ideas without any thought.
@Richmondthefish BMD doesn't just make cameras, look at all their products...
@@joellouisfire I understand all of their broadcast products. What you are not grasping is how expensive and niche the market is for commercial digital cinema projectors. Even Sony completely got out of making these level of projectors a few years ago. We are talking about projectors that cost more than a nice house.
It will be interesting to see the computing power needed to edit the format
Pretty sure most people will edit with low-res proxies. Trying to edit in 12k would be insane!
BMD we all love you
Nope, not *all* of us love them! 🤷🏻♂
In fact I don't even like BMD or their products, although I use them once in a while.. 🤦🏻♂
To be honest I'm more a fan of AJA stuff - but that's my personal preference since 25+ years! 💪
I'm working as tech guy in post production and recently I was shocked:
Because I've learned that UltraStudio 4K Extreme 3 (and other BMD I/O boxes) works with Avid Media Composer BUT "Audio Punch-In" doesn't work! 😱 You'll need a separate audio interface for recording audio.. 😬
Audio Punch-In works with Avid-branded BMD hardware but not with the original BMD models. Avid stopped to sell branded HW from BMD or AJA a while ago, so for me and other people in the post business this is really annoying.. 👎
I'm okay with BMD hardware being some sort of "dongle" for video output with DaVinci Studio! Although it's annoying but we're used to this since many years.. BUT limiting the audio inputs from an expensive I/O box is childishness in my opinion! 🤬
Sounds super promising and affordable even! Can't wait!
How many specs can you cram into 1 camera?
BMD: ALLLLLLL of them
That's why they got Magic in their name.... hehehehe
Just the cool sounding specs, instead of the real world performance
This is the breakdown I’ve been waiting for. I’ve saving for this bad boy! 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
Facts
Thanks for watching!
Their 65mm sensor will be 50.8 mm x 23.3 mm. Just to compare, the Alexa 65 is 54.12 mm × 25.59 mm. Really close. I want to know whether the Kipon Baveyes 0.8x focal reducer for LPL will work with URSA 65. If it works, the width will be 63 mm and that's so much bigger than the Alexa. The image circle of typical 645 lenses are about 81mm, so it should work!
Alexa = 150k
BMC = 19k
Its dirt cheap.
@@chrisw443 you cant even buy the alexa 65
@@ayatotakema5axsyes, only rental, but BMD can(And if you save up the money, you can buy it privately.)
Speedboosters only give a wider fov and a little more light, nothing else. The sensor and the lens characteristics remain unchanged. So after the speedbooster, there will be no change in depth whatsoever when compared to without speedbooster. Nor will the noise improve. It's an optical element, so think of it as just an extra piece of glass at the end of the lens. If it really had any impact on the sensor, every aps-c lens would add this element as their rear component to turn the camera full frame. A physically larger lens will always have more depth and better noise. It's basically like a wide angle converter.
@@guptageneralstores5243 well a focal reducer does change the optics as it creates a new wider focal length.
So a 50mm on the 0.8 focal reducer becomes a 40mm lens and one that is a stop faster. And since there is an increase in Tstop, there is also an increase in fstop.
Not a fan of Blackmagic, but one thing I love with them is that they’ve exposed the overpriced snobbery that’s been going on with companies like RED and Arri. They show the true cost and price you can sell cameras for. We see the same thing happen in the cinema lens world with asian companies making anamorphic lenses for 1/20th of the price of an Arri lens.
The difference between Red and Arri vs the rest of the market is their scale. An Arri is like a Bugatti, perfectly crafted and in very low volume. BMD cameras are more mass produced, thus the price can be lower due to production efficiencies.
@@keylanph Arri could easily scale up production but that would mean lowering the price, and that is something that they don’t want. RED went this path though somewhat with the Scarlet, Raven and Komodo.
The world of cinema has long lived on overpriced snobbery and I am glad to see it collapse slowly.
@@sa.t.2507Arri make cameras that last for years or even decades it’s not snobbery it’s craftsmanship and engineering
@@rhubarbfilms So a bit better buildquality motivates a 20x more expensive camera? You pay for the premium of holding an Arri, that’s what costs. Same thing with Ray-Ban sunglasses. Sure they are built a bit better than your ordinary 5 dollar glasses, but 90% of the price is just because of the brand itself.
I'd take a 10 yr old Arri over a 2026 BM camera all day
What’s the micron size of the 17k sensor? That’s another thing to consider. The micron size of the Alexa’s are 8.25 micron. You can have all the resolution in the world; but if the quality of the pixels are trash, then the quality of the image will reflect that.
It's pretty easy to do the math, and it gets you a pitch of 2.9 microns. An Alexa 65 is best for low light and dynamic range - each pixel gets over 8 times the light as in the BMD 17K. But considering the Ursa Mini 12K has a pixel pitch of just 2.2 microns, it's actually really competitive.
The RGBW sensor design requires larger than usual photosite counts to produce the final color fidelity. The original ursa mini 12k resolves just under 4k, like wise the 17k will probably resolve around 6k - 8k. Since they're using a 6x6 block of photosites to derive the final color information. This is good though, in a sense it's like binning, you're getting an equivalent output of much larger photosites.
This is so exciting and I really admire BMD's efforts to democratize high-quality filmmaking to those with less access to resources. I think it should be mentioned though that, from what I've read, the 17k will not have internal ND filters as opposed to the 12k. Not a deal breaker because the 17k is clearly not meant to be a run and gun or one-person crew type of camera, and a fuller production will probably have some serious matte boxes and high end 4x5.65 / 6x6 ND filters. But nonetheless I think folks out there might wanna know.
Oh!! Yeah!! It's all about The MAGIC in the BLACK BOX, hence the Name Black magic Camera 🤯🤯
Love what these guys are doing. Feels like a tleast one of the big companies in this space is looking out for us film makers!
Filmmakers? I’m so tired of that term. If you don’t shoot on film you’re not a filmmaker… You might be a video maker but you’re not a filmmaker. Will everybody please understand that.
@@2424rocket If Spielberg, Nolan, Scorsese, Tarantino, PTA, and other film-using masters of the craft can bring themselves to refer to their digital-using peers as "filmmakers" then so can you. You will go insane trying to cling to antiquated terminology and demanding everyone else do the same.
@@2424rocket Yawn, better things to talk about in the comments of this video but here goes 🤔... If you're serious about getting literal, maybe call yourself a 'film-user'. I shoot on video, and make films. We all know what a film is and since language is for the exchange of ideas, that makes sense to me and 99% of people. I don't watch videos on Netflix, I watch films. I love Blackmagic 'Digital Film' products - we all know that that's an oxymoron, but we get what they mean by it, it's an idea. It's what their products represent in the hands of the creatives who use them. Based on your logic, we're all video-makers these days as nothing is delivered on cellulose any more, it's all delivered as digital video. Or maybe you've gotten lost and find yourself consuming the wrong youtube videos here? I actually really like the French term 'Cineaste', it refers to the medium the artist is delivering rather than the media they capture on.
@@2424rocket I guess Grieg Fraser isn't a DP because he shot Dune 2 on Alexa LF and not film like a true filmmaker would
Love BM. They keep pushing and innovating and making other companies up their games. I hope someone will pick up the 65mm camera and shoot an IMAX film with it to show all the snobs it's just as good for a fraction of the price.
Wow .. Crazy Res!!
I just wanted to come here and say, how much I appreciate the audio on this video 😢 🤌🏾
I'll use this camera for vlogging
Can't wait to see it's capability
Fabulous!
Blackmagic: We love resolution over picture quality. Next stop 24k!!!
Arri: Let's just make the picture nice
So the 17K 140MP sensor is just a bit wider than the new 12K (80MP) sensor?
Same height, same pixels etc.... does this also mean we can predict the possible framerates for the eventual 17K camera?
Or is it like a 3x and a 2x sensoe stich like Arri had for their 65mm sensor?
Is it the same sensor as the 12k cine? Same DR?
Saying it’s not an A cam is insane
I just meant from the perspective of data management and filming a closeup of someone’s face at 17K. Just need to consider a few things first before throwing it in the mix :) Didn’t mean it as a negative - different tools for different things.
It doesn't feel like an Acam?? You're talking about a 65mm sensor with 16 stops of DR and 12 bit color. Combine that with Gen 5 color and you've got an incredible Acam.
As an Ursa 12k owner, I see a lot of people get shocked by the resolution and immediatly write the camera off. They don't stick around to see what it can do in 8K, 4k, 12k downsampled to 4k. You can't let the large number shock you - evaluate the sensor based on the beauty of the image.
@@n00baublitz Exactly. I own a 12k two 12k's. Imagine that 16 steps of dynamic range
Yeah that was a bit of tone deafness, but maybe he meant it to talk about its niche uses. This is MOST DEFINITELY an A-cam lmao. I'm really hoping we see this camera used in top Hollywood films within the next couple of years. I can see Nolan using it, that'd be amazing.
@@joellouisfireNolan and his main DP hoyte van Hoytema only shoot on film but who knows.
@@colinthomas2525 yeah, that's why it would be such an insane thing haha
This is a great company that pushes out boundary busting products but doesn't forget its old ones, releasing new firmware for 5 year-old cameras that bring the latest features like cloud support.
Can see the Blackmagic's strategy now, it is no less than winning RED in high end cameras, not just being "almost RED" but more. And now that Nikon took RED, it can be also the opportunity where the Blackmagic really can get into the market. Also: price is not bad for high end camera because it comes all included. Also BM has full ecosystem including editing software, which started from simple color grading software and has evolved into the best editor on the market with a wide margin.
17K 65mm sensor camera would be useful also in IMAX Stereo 3D and other immersive environments with large wall-sized screens (flat or surrounding or dome or in stereo/VR), so that pixels wouldn't be noticeable to the eye - kind of lifelike film experience. I was thinking about this kind of resolution with wide dynamic range for many years. Love the progressor-pioneer attitude of Blackmagic Design! Also waiting for serious IBIS, PDAF and fully rotating flip-screens in all Blackmagic cameras in the future.
Wait. what microphone are you using? the NAB floor looks super busy and the mic sound is crystal clear.
I am now thinking about holding out for the 15 stop Pyxis 8k. It's gotta happen soon
anyone know of a channel that's putting content from NAB up regularly, like maybe a bunch of live clips and quick looks at the booths? Been looking for updates today just to pass the time and I don't know, maybe NAB is a quiet one this year outside of the black magic announcements.
I'm really excited about this camera (and sensor) shooting stills with 645 Medium format opens so many more options in delivery.
In terms of sensors, (and stills cameras miss-lead in the same way) we need to pay closer attention to comparisons.
50.8mm x 23.3mm is Panavision.
iMax would need roughly, a 60mm x 85mm size sensor, something like the Sphere's Big Sky camera 18,024 x 17,592 resolution, 77.5mm x 75.6mm sensor.
Having gotten used to a 645 crop digital medium format though, I think this is going to be an exceptional camera and a better overall package than iMax in a lot of ways.
Does this one still have a sensor made in the core of chernobyl reactor? Is it designed in collab for "black hole sun" music video?
High end 35mm stills cameras have had 61 megapixels for years, which is 10K equivalent and no one gets upset by that. If I was a big time filmmaker shooting the next Oppenheimer or Lawrence of Arabia or Star Wars, I'd want to shoot in full 17K so that it could be exhibited at full resolution in true Imax. PS the actual resolution of true 70mm Imax film is wildly overstated, in part due to The Dark Knight's DP misunderstanding of the oversampling process--true Imax film is closer to 9 or 10k resolution.
Global Shutter? eVND Sony FX6 style? 16 bit RAW? Gyro stabilization? Wireless viewfinder app?
By the way, The Sphere camera is 18K in a square aspect. Not sure if 3:2 or 1:1. Massive stuff.
"Beyond IMAX resolution" ... I am sorry, IMAX is not 65mm 5perf but 70mm 15 perf, and if you knew the size of that "sensor" you wouldn't be saying that BS. Otherwise, congrats on the new camera BMD, I love all your products, but no marketing bs pls
You are confusing sensor/frame size with resolution.
He’s referring to effective resolution - not sensor/format size.
totally agree. The Cine 12K is designed for perfect 4K Resolution, the 17K then effetive 5,6K Resolution (which is very good). in 2.20:1 Ratio!.. This has nothing to do with real IMAX 1.43 1570, which is about 12-18K depending on the Filmstock, which 2.5 more Image hight
@@genjii931IMAX is a format not a resolution.
To add to the comments above, there is a distinct difference between resolution and sensor size. Remember Dune 2 was shot on a mini LF and printed to 70/15. No one complained about resolution there.
It’s an exciting camera for sure!
Marquis Brownlee will order 6 for his YT studio !
I'm a Sony guy and have next to no BMD experience (other than their ATEM mixers and the OG Pocket Cinema Camera). Th 12K CINE is incredibly interesting to me HOWEVER I truly am unnerved by the multiple reports of "unrepairable" bricked BMD cameras! I see comments like that SO often (and calls for - at least - better warranty offerings from BMD) that I don't really see myself dropping 10K+ on a camera of theirs yet... I HOPE that will change.
how's the rolling shutter
3:40 haha Hey it’s my buddy Will Helmuth in the bg I’ve AC’d for him a few times lol
Would be great to see some bigger films being shot on blackmagic
Definitely Netflix and streaming service low/mid budget films. But those high budget productions with still be shot by Arri cameras.
I wish sensors would push more towards low light sensitivity than resolution. Having the ability to shoot in dim conditions at F5 or above would be much more useful to me than 17k resolution
They are, they're not using the 17k photosites for resolution, they're using it for color uniformity. The Ursa mini 12k has a resolving power of 4k. Because the RGBW sensor design derives color fidelity across a 6x6 block of RGB filtered and monochromatic photosites.
I wish blackmagic put different video codecs in their more high end cameras such as the 12k's and the new Pyxis 6k and I guess also the new 17k.
1:24 - Ouch, he got it wrong there. "16K sphere" is actually 16K x 16K which is 256 megapixels. The Cine 17K is 17K x 8K which is 136 megapixels. The Sphere's sensor is also 83mm x 99mm whereas the Cine 17K is 50mm x 23mm. There is a big difference between the two and so no the Blackmagic URSA Cine 17K does not shoot beyond the Sphere 16K camera.
my question is, what lens?
Watching from iphone 6
I still didn’t understand what imax is
The original 12K Ursa was kind of ignored because almost nobody shoots at this resolution - it also excelled at 4K or 6K, but Blackmagic didn't really advertise that. Hope the new camera doesn't follow this path.
The ursa 12k is not 12k. It's 4k. It can't resolve beyond 4k as it's RGBW design requires sampling across a 6x6 block of photosites to derive color. Which is a smart design as it offers color uniformity for that final resolving power. We need to remove the notion that the photosite count is a comparable measure against bayer sensors, it's a completely different sensor design.
Are we at a GigaPixel yet??? GigaPixel 300 fps would be sweet…
When the pocket series gets 13 stops, and thats clean stops with 15 stops total, im very excited to hear 16 stops
1:10 Ugh fake B.S marketing.
IMAX isn't just about resolution. It's a massive format a little over 2.5 times the size of 65mm cameras that allows for the use of large format glass for normal shots....example 28mm is often cited as the most used lens in cinema history and you can use a 80mm for this FOV when shooting IMAX(thats what Nolan uses a lot). You can't replicate the IMAX look with just pumping up resolution just like a 5.8k micro 4/3 GH6 cannot replicate the same look as a 4.5k ARRI LF. Both cameras use completely different glass because of the sensor size. A normal shot lens on 4/3 would be a 14mm lens.
Also he compared this camera to the Big Sky camera in Vegas which is again is a joke. That camera's sensor is over 4 times the size of a 65mm sensor.
that's true except at this point these are semantics as the sensor is massive. This sensor should at least provide good 8K output which is more than good enough.
Once digitalized by scanning IMAX film, the resolution is around 11k… so yeah from a resolution point of view, 17k exceed IMAX. Now pixels don’t mean everything, and that’s where the censor size matter and this 65mm 17k is very close from the Alexa 65mm, which is the best digital camera closest to IMAX, and used by most film makers. The size of the IMAX censor doesn’t mean everything since what matters is the film size and ratio to make sure your film can be viewed by the audience in a way you want to… not everyone has an IMAX display at home, nor even in most theater… so it means nothing to shoot with IMAX if your movie end up in regular movie theaters or even on streaming platforms… that’s where 3:2 Open Gate becomes interesting IMHO, and why this Ursa 17k could provide an IMAX look and feel for all current media and broadcasting format.
@@Spidouz "so it means nothing to shoot with IMAX if your movie end up in regular movie theaters or even on streaming platforms…"
completely false. did you not read OP comments? according to your logic oppehemier would look the same shooting on super 35mm as imax in a 'regular theater' or at home(which is not true at all.
@@Spidouz very false. The BM Cine 12K is designed for a perfect 4K Image, the same Sensor a bit wider in the Cine 17K will result in perfect 5,6K. In an 2.20:1 Ratio, so in the "Lie-MAX" 1.9:1 Format ends up cropped 5,1K. Which is still the new Benchmark compared with the Alexa 65 6,5K, debayerd 4,3K Resolution in 2.20:1. All that have NOTHING to do with real 1570 IMAX, wich is 12Kx8K on high grain Filmstock, and 18Kx12K on 50ASA Filmstock, in 1.43:1 Ratio, projected in real.
On Digital all ends in 4K Projection, even the Barco IMAX 4K Laser Projector, which is still a bottleneck in Digital IMAX Theaters with 10 Year old Technologie now
I think the next generation will have 14.5 stops
We ALL MUST WAIT,ITS NOT READY,17K needs at least 2 years to be completed in harmonic work form of Hardware&Software,i mean integrity of all sides.We saw this in NIKON Z9...but i think on 2030 we will have FUJI&NIKON(with release of their real CINEMA camera)and also BLACK MAGIC,as the world-loved companies which bring the GLOBAL SHUTTER & Cinematic approach to the MASS use-production or in every house,,,Then from now the industry and the leaders(ARRI&RED) have started to work on other inventions not to stay behind like: Integrity of workflow(cloud&accessories&physical equipments),Exact auto focus,DR,internal NDs rise,internal sensor steadycast(image stabilization),All Lens adaptivity specially the easiness of usability for classic analogue lenses in digital cameras ,Vintage Classic 65mm-70mm releases types on digital format and....
17k for under 20 grand is not bad. Seriously. The negatives are almost all their cameras are locked to one software so they're pretty useless for 99% of client work unless your doing all the post, and even then, people want prores or raw or h.264/5.
Until they get other formats on these cameras they will be under utilized. Unless all NLE's can start reading them.
I think that's the point 😉
No prores, but they can send out h.264 proxies
Pocket 40k please
If the Cine 12K is designed for perfekt 4K, then the 17K ist for perfect 5,6K, which is impressive & more effectively than the Alexa 65, but all in 2.20.1 - NOTHING IMAX here thank you
True IMAX is 70mm at 1.43:1 aspect ratio for me. Labelling 2.20:1 65mm sensor IMAX, is just advertising for me.
The labeling should be Panavision. An iMax equivalent sensor would need to be about ~60mm x ~85mm.
5 perf 70mm film is still imax.
The point I wanted was, even if the same film stock is used, the frame size and orientation is totally different. Leading to the names IMAX (large frame, horizontal film run) and Panavision (cropped frame, vertical film run) and in the case of stills Medium Format (large frame, horizontal film run) and 645 Reporter (cropped frame, vertical film run)
If Panavision and 645 Reported were both shot on an IMAX camera the film would need a mask to crop out the unused portion of the frame. Which I see in the digital realm as the equivalent of a cropped sensor
If Blackmagic made the BOX camera with the URSA cine sensor instead of 6K sensor and priced less than $10,000 they would have taken away RED / Burano / Venice's lunch, dinner and sleep.
can't wait for the resolution memes
Yeah i accept it(17K video sensor)is a shock to industry BUT it isnot ready yet,it needs a time to be completed even after release like NIKON Z9,we know these well,Software&hardware integrity takes time as to grew,we must be awaiting,and also RGBW type of sensor needs to be well-progressed,we dont know it well,Yeah the 17K is a shock as its bringing the 65mm film similarity to digital world in a "MASS" approach,as MASS Production and Mass Usage and Mass release,BUT IMAX is not replaceable,its sensable real film emulsion,it is the living history like Super 35mm or like what 70mm film(5mm for sound strip stick-65 mm for picture capture)brought to the cinema in 50s-70s
It absolutely is replaceable if the capture device is beyond it, and thus can emulate it.
The presenter is a bit of a dick to the BMD guy lmao. “I don’t see this as an A cam necessarily, no offense” and “I see IMAX being thrown around more than I’d like” after the dude mentions IMAX. Dude has no chill lol
Nikon it is your move now 😅
Not a cam to shoot a whole movie on? Enough said lol
Black magic should concentrate on lowlight performance rather than going after K's
The number of Ks is not for resolution, it's to achieve color uniformity. As they sample 6x6 RGBW photosites to derive color fidelity. Therefore it's not relatively comparable to the same number of photosites on a bayer sensor.
Why not 30k?
IMAX is a FORMAT not a RESOLUTION. Somebody needs to tell Blackmagic to stop making idiotic marketing claims
No,IMAX is also about the resolution mate
Nothing is idiotic here but you
@@yashbhatnagar1478only if your considering the resolution of the film scanner in the DI.
@@rhubarbfilms but still it is better than full frame
@@yashbhatnagar1478 IMAX it's not about resolution. Its about sensor/film size and aspect ratio. A Samsung phone has a higher resolution that a ARRI Alexa 65.
@@rhubarbfilmsThe size of this camera is equal to 65mm 3 perf. IMAX is 65mm 5 perf.
Productions that can afford to get "the best prime lenses that exist" can afford a camera that isn't a Blackmagic.
I appreciate they're aiming high, but the sort of productions they're talking about (VFX heavy), are getting a Venice or a DXL2. They're the established, proven brands in that realm.
Mention imax equivalent then swerve when asked to justify. IMAX has a bigger frame size
Interesting but important step into the LF world for BMD. Sony surely will be out with their LF line soon enough. BMD getting in there first and with a unique IMAX slant to it gets them a head start. The rep is right in that BMD needs to get rapid adoption before Sony steps in.
Zooming out, the main threat to all of them however is the current wave of synthetic software. IMO the camera industry across all brands needs to get Gen Z and Gen Alpha in on making images. They also need Apple to hold the fort on camera based imagery being a thing. Otherwise the likes of OpenAI, Microsoft, NVIDIA will eat them for lunch with their vastly larger market cap. The software route is the path of least resistance and because it’s software based and these companies have little regard for ethics, it’s just the much cheaper option.
BMD is making the right moves with the BM phone app. BMPCC needs a refresh and possibly even a loss leader on the entry model in the line to get Gen Z&A involved with filmmaking. The camera companies need to move on from fighting amongst themselves to seeing that the bigger “enemy” is outside of them and right at their doorstep
Put this size sensor on FX3 body style so I can record my TH-cam videos in 17k.
What next ? 42k resolution 120mm sensor with ELPL( Extremely Large Prime Lens) mount. Blackmagic is king. By by Arri Alexa, Sony Venice Burano, Red, Panasonic, canon
Arri definitely not. That dynamic range on those cameras are legit.
@@semajtheprod I did choose sensor size and resolution any day over dynamic range
Who needs 17K? Most features when projected are bumped down to 2K, (4K in some theaters). Even for effects work, I would think 6, 8 or 12K would suffice.
Those who want better color for around a 6k output. It's not 17k "resolution" if you derive color across a 6x6 RGBW grid of photosites.
Well we'll, from Super 8, to 16mm, to Super 35 to FF, VW and now 65MM.
Arri don't let us hire the 65mm unless your Chris Nolan or Mr Tarantino.😢
Can we stop calling anything less than 70 x 50 mm IMAX. Very impressive though Blackmagic!
seriously using their logic the 12 super 35 USRA is actually a large format camera because 'its 12k' or a Samsung phone is large format because it shoots 8k.
@@vlcthefish exactly he just used the resolution comparison to call it IMAX, and that's only horizontal, the largest component of IMAX is its sensor size. The day will come when we have digital IMAX sensors no need to lie to customers now.
@@dawsonboyle99 The biggest joke of it all is that he talks about the Sphere in Vegas and said they shoot 16k and Blackmagic exceeds that. First of all the Big Sky camera shoots 18k but the sensor is even bigger than IMAX and 3" x 3" which is hilarious he's comparing this camera to that beast.
@@telford2155it’s like they think they’re selling cameras to people who know nothing about cameras, kind of insulting.
Impressive. I do wish the PIXYS cam had the 16 stop sensor of the Cine 12K, though.
Those sensors are incredibly expensive. It definitely wouldn't be a $3,000 camera if it had the 12K's sensor unfortunately
You can't even buy half of the sensor for $3000 lol.
Look into the Canon C70 for 16 stops, internal ND's, Super 35 and more. You can find one close around $3,500 now.
The Pyxis is the Hollywood version of the go pro… cheap and good enough for crash camera.
@@mjgfromdallasnah 13 effective stops as tested by IMATEST, but that’s still really good. I shoot with an F55 that’s marketed at 14 stops, it’s really closer to 11, and look at all the stuff they’ve shot with it, Insidious 3, the ENTIRE series of the Blacklist, folks shouldn’t perpetuate DR as some type of flex.
“Just Say No To Proprietary Media!” - This camera needs is a CF Express Type C 4.0 card slot. Type C offers a four-lane PCIe Gen4 interface with up to 8 GB/s data rate. This camera maxes out at 4 GB/s, a Type C exceeds this cameras needs.
File size must be enormous lol 1tb 20 seconds clips 😂
I thought it was 12k
17k… good luck hiring a focus puller
If it's not 16 Bit we can't use it
They said the ursa cine 12k uses a 16-bit adc encoded to 12-bit log. So you should be good.
@@SHDEdits there's a reason all the big boys like. Arri, Sony, red use 16 bit. It's just better by a lot . 12 bit is ok but if you look side by side, you can see a difference. I remember when an episode of House was shot with a canon 5d mark ii and it was revolutionary for it's time, but that 10 bit looks terrible by today's standards. BRAW is 12 bit and I get it, but until there's a 16 bit offering, I'm not investing in it. My concern is that a lot of codecs just have empty space where the information should be when they up scale to 16 bit and lose all that color info when they downscale
@@davida5296 The original arri alexa sensor does not output 16-bit log, it uses a 16-bit ADC, to output at a lower bit depth, same goes for black magic and many other companies. There is not a perceptual difference between 12-bit and 16-bit. 16-bit is only needed to handle quantisation noise introduced for cameras with higher dynamic range. In other words, black magic is working with industry standards here, because if the sensor were say below 14 stops of dynamic range, a 16-bit ADC would not be required.
You’re move Alexa
I would never use a BM camera on a professional shoot again after 3 URSA mini 4.6ks failed on me during a shoot. When I say failed, I mean dead pixels in every single camera. The sensors in these cameras just do not compete with the likes of Arri. Please get the sensor right before releasing BM, because you cost me a lot of money from your mistakes.
lol why? A 1tb card will last 5 minutes 😂😂 yall chasing 17k and don’t have 4k televisions in every room. But have fun chasing company specs. Davinci is amazing… bmc cameras not so much
The 17k is for the future proofing
Their 12K Camera was shit and a flop, now they are flexing again with numbers and the semi professionals get wet.
17k？17K is useless
It does perfect binning down to 4K though, I think that is the real magic.
It's 17k photosites, not 17k resolution.
16 bit color? I think everyone would prefer that rather then 17k. No one ever needs more then 8k
I definitely need it since I want my films to be shown on a projector
It’s for big screen movies there trying to replace film
Film post production is crazy this is going to change the game
If big directors actually use it
@@Jaysonwareit will change the game because smaller directors could use it and obtain great result similar to big budget IMAX/Alexa 65 movies…
What's the point of 16bit?
Arri can fit their 35 dynamic range in 13 bit, so 12 is sufficient for the BMD cameras.
stills do 14 bit a lot and 16 bit for high end models. But the read out speed is vastly different, so the thermal noise is much lower. also stills do linear raw. not a log curve.
I think you're confusing colour bit depth and stops of dynamic range.
Nobody asked for this... from them lol.
Also, these big ass claims without images--it's ridiculous. I hate when companies do that.
17K, just stop already.
No no no
This is getting/ has become ridiculous..how many damn Ks do you need???????!!!!! You want a clean clear image but then you put a tilta pro mist on it to make it less clear!! but yet you buy these cameras..come on, 4k has Plenty for the eye to see, SHIT, if you can't see it clearly enough with 4k you don't need more Ks, you need an Ophthalmologist!!..just stop it!! Stop it now!
The number of Ks on an RGBW sensor is not comparable to a bayer sensor as sampling for color takes place across 6x6 grid of pixels, rather than 2x2 grid of pixels with conventional bayer sensors. So for this sensor design you simply need more photosites to derive the same equivalent resolution of a bayer sensor. Why would they do this? Color uniformity. That's why.
You lost me at LPL what is black magic thinking 🤔 Christopher Nolan gonna use your camera for his next shoot? Come-on guys... You need to scrap all these half ass cameras and give us the consumers what we need.
Worst color science
It's a capture device, derive your own color science instead of being lazy.
@@SHDEdits Its not about being lazy - its inferior. I get perfect color out of the box with Alexa.
@@markpommett5712 Are you an artist or someone who wants the same carbon copy of alexa color science. You should purchase a camera for it's ability to capture information, not for it's interpretation of that information by the manufacturer, as there's no magic sauce about it that other cameras of similar capturing capabilities can't achieve.
@@SHDEdits Im a DP who doesn’t want to correct a camera that doesn’t look good out of the box. With the Alexa I can capture more DR than any other camera and the skin tones are still the best in class so thats all the captured information I need. 17K wont be adopted for many many years.
@@markpommett5712 If you believe there is a "correct" interpretation for the output to "look good" you seem to have quite a shallow vision as a DP.