Blackmagic URSA Cine 12K Full-Frame Cinema Camera Explained
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มิ.ย. 2024
- ► Read more: www.cined.com/blackmagic-ursa...
At NAB 2024, we sat down with Craig Heffernan - Technical Sales Director at Blackmagic Design - to dive deeper into the long list of specs of their newly-announced URSA Cine 12K full-frame cinema camera. Let’s take a look!
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12ms rolling shutter for 12K OPEN GATE is absolutely insane performance. For context: the A7S III is 8.7ms for 3840x2160 at 25fps.
Also, this TSD has zero idea what he's talking about. It's PCIe, not PCE. It's likely four lanes of 4.0, which means a peak theoretical bandwidth of well over 7 GB/s. On the plus side, it seems that they're relatively price competitive ($1700) considering that a high-end consumer 8TB 4.0x4 SSD from Sabrent costs $1200, and isn't meant to be rugged or repeatedly plugged in and removed. I'm glad to see camera companies finally realizing that built-in storage in the package cost is a MUST, not an option.
Yes, I believe Graham said in the livestream that it’s 4 drives at 4 lanes each for a total of 16 lanes pcie.
@@ethanhegel8576 that's...not at ALL how PCIe works. And if it really is 4 separate drives, then it actually IS overpriced.
@@spdcrzyGoogle PCIe bifurcation
> Also, this TSD has zero idea what he's talking about. It's PCIe, not PCE.
Really? The guy "doesnt know what hes talking about" because he forgot one letter in an acronym? You've never made a mistake in your life, huh
@@t1merickson he is a TECHNICAL sales director. This is his job. Not a "mistake". He should have had this presentation down cold.
This is an insanely awesome camera, and I work weekly with the Venice 2, Alexa35, Mini LF and Red V-Raptor as a 1st AC. Great work BMD
I'm glad they will be having a CFexpress option. 4K open gate is plenty of information for me and non-propriety media as an option is very important.
Towards the end they also mention recording to an external SSD via one of the many USB Cs the camera has, so plenty of options there.
I said about 6 years ago (humble brag) that BM was smart because they got in with the creators and the indie film people just coming up in the industry and now those people are starting to shoot real projects and have a real foothold in the business.
BM integrated them into their system and their workflow so now they are pushing into that feature film market. Good on them.
Agree. It can only be good that amazing technology is being given to more and more creative minds. I think Gareth Edwards really set the standard by shooting The Creator with a Sony FX3. Good times!
The most awaited camera, Thank you so much Black Magic!🙏❤️🌹
what do think this cam will retail for?
@@markbrown1609 U.S. $14,995
$14,995 as mentioned on their website, and as he said multiple times in THIS video.
@@markbrown1609 they said it’s $15k
@@markbrown1609 It's already confirmed for $15K without EVF
Must have. Impressive from all points of view. Well made and well thought out. Very curious to try it.
Amazing! Thanks for asking all the right Qs. I would love to know if it's dual ISO?
Will the Cine run at full capacity on 26V V mount or do we have to use B mount?
For once, I am actually hyped by a Blackmagic camera (I'm not saying they don't produce good images, but I own a P6KPRO and hate using it 'cause of the ergonomics... Always loved the URSA line though). I probably will never buy one because it's a lot of money, but rent one ? Absolutely. The only thing I don't like on it is the assistant screen : it's overkill in my opinion to have it be a full monitor (because 99.9% of the time, the focus puller will use a wireless screen to be able to not be glued to the camera).
been on plenty shoots where the AC and the focus puller were different roles...
Would they consider making a 12K LF version in a smaller body (without the secondary screen, no power distribution, smaller media card, L mount)? i.e. for a single operator, not team?
The entire body is bigger precisely because of the new media module. If they do somehow get the sensor into a smaller body with CFE media, there will be compression and frame rate limitations required. The L mount will probably be possible but you'll likely lose the internal ND filters.
It’s important to approach this type of camera with a broader knowledge of your workflow.
If only hinges weren’t so expensive the 6K box camera could have flipped the screen out in the same way. But that global hinge crisis is such a tragedy.
For me as a filmmaker, the glued side screen is an absolute nonsense. I like to watch my scene in real with one eye and the framing on the screen with the other eye. Unfortunately, my eyes are set up parallel to each other and I am unable to move just one eye 90° outwards.
I can see a Tilta hinged mirror mod coming.
Zero other box-shaped systems have a hinged screen. Get a hybrid mirrorless camera.
@@gabrielobrien21 Well they could have left the screen completely out then and made the camera cheaper.
@@cineffect grown men shouldn't whine this much.
Nice mature interview from both sides. Interesting to see how this will be used in the wild
This new camera is very intriguing, I hope it catapults BMD into the big leagues of high end production. The value equation of this camera is off the scale. It remains to be seen if BMD can overcome the perceptions about long term, high use reliability, IR pollution issues, etc. but it seems very well thought out. I wish they would have licensed ProRes for non-Resolve workflows as Resolve is a killer editing app but a lot of the audience for this type of camera may be editing with AVID or Premiere where BRAW isn't possible.
I really hope one day Resolve for Windows will allow ProRes encoding just like Premiere for Windows does. :(
The whole BMD ideas is to have an entire ecosystem… BRAW is great and works flawlessly on Resolve Studio. It’s a pure non-sense to use other format that aren’t part of your ecosystem.
@@Spidouz that would be a great business strategy if they were a big player in the market. They aren't, so it is costing them sales.
@@Spidouz My point was, having only BRAW will hamper adoption of this camera in the greater marketplace. How many ad agencies, PR agencies, Hollywood Studios and their contractors use Resolve TODAY? Sure, a few, but not many. I truly hate Premiere, I use Resolve but I'd say 90-98% of my clients as a freelance shooter are on Premiere. It's a terrible program but it is well established and entrenched and it will take BMD years to take that marketshare from Adobe. Go to high end features and episodic work, what do they use? AVID. BMD is making a sound engineering decision but a poor market accessibility decision by not including at least ProRes 422 & 444. And yes, I know that 12k isn't supported in the ProRes spec but IMHO, having shot the URSA 12K for a month when it came out, 12K is the least interesting thing about this camera. It's the sensor that's compelling, not the sensor resolution. When I had the 12K, I mainly shot a little 8K, most 6K and 4K. I still loved the images.
There will be a lot of these people who will see this camera, become excited by it's possibilities and low cost for high end work but then see that it only records BRAW and ask themselves if they are willing to sacrifice their entire agency, studio or high production company post workflow and infrastructure by converting it all to Resolve, just to be able to edit footage from this camera. And that answer will be no. I've been haranguing a lot of my clients for years to dump Adobe, but they simply will not.
Same with AVID, I've worked at production companies in Hollywood that have anywhere from 10 to even 60-80 edit bays, all on AVID Unity. Those companies have tens of millions of dollars tied up in the AVID workflow. They're not changing to Resolve, as much as I think they should. By adding ProRes capability, many of these type companies and clients would be all over the camera and then would likely be intrigued by the possibilities of switching to a BRAW workflow. But if you demand they do it, they simply will ignore the camera.
Does it have pre-roll ?
what is the difference between the one model and the OLPF?
Wow. Cool. Audio input? I know it's primarily a timecode workflow but does it have any audio input?
Yes, I noticed the usual rubber flap on top just behind the top handle. I’ll bet there are 2 x XLRs under there!
i loved the design so so much... as i own 2 x units 12k .. the Best part i see from the new 12K Cine is the right side big monitor built in so that the camera asist focus puller has no reason away from camera .. and also good for nowday director like to be next to camera and watching, go to right camera please .. thank you blackmagic looking forward into this Amazing camera soon.
Can the SSD cartridge be swap to any brand?
informative developments informative content
I wish Blackmagic would put 4 12g SDI ports on their cameras at least the higher end ones so we could actually use the 8k function of their capture card or the Ultimatte 12 8k.
I wish the FF Ursa had a 8K sensor. 12K needs a lot more light. Seems crazy BM make either a 6K sensor or a 12.
If Blackmagic made the BOX camera with the URSA cine sensor instead of 6K sensor and priced less than $10,000 they would have taken away RED / Burano / Venice's lunch, dinner and sleep.
They dont want to be another Red or Venice. They stand their own way
I want a reissue the bmpcc original
Really curious to see some footage in the "Cinemascope" mode. (I'll assume this full sensor width? cropped vertical only?) sub 5ms readout is getting close to Amira motion fidelity. (sub 3ms, but at 2.8k)
Yes full sensor with a 2:4:1 aspect crop.
Biggest gripe is hwere is the pro res...did they get rid of it..used to be an option im glss i still got it on my 4k and 6k pocket for sure
I think because it is very unwieldy due to the size of the footage when shooting at 12k ff open gate. Otherwise it should be down samples to 4k. But this camera is supposed to to shot at 12k or 8k rather than 4k. Thats why they cant do Pro res until finding out a solution for it.
cant wait for the lab tests
Blackmagic is killing it 🥹🫶🏻 they are innovation
i’m confused, b&h says it’s a global shutter. is 12ms considered global shutter?
Dagnabbit, if they just used USB-4 standard on their usb-c connections, that is 40GB/s, this limitation on their usb connections is really holding them back.
Perfect for hand-held vlogging on an E-scooter.
Im very excited for this camera. If they get even just one extra stop of usable dynamic range over the ursa mini g2 its gonna be really hard to ignore.
I really hope we see decent industry adoption. Im ready to sell my amira but dont know if i can drop the arri branding for blackmagic.
@@StringerBell2002 15
@@StringerBell2002 there's the dynamic range blackmagic reports and there is the actual usable dynamic range.
The ursa G2 had a usable dynamic range around 12.6 and the bmpcc 6k around 11.7. This is opposed to the reported 15 and 13 spots claimed by blackmagic.
This isn't just a blackmagic thing. Pretty much all camera brands besides Arri report dynamic range higher than what they really have.
@@nickxcoh I know. RED was notorious for inflating their DR numbers in their cameras.
@@nickxcno even arri claims 17 stops for the alexa35 and cined measured total stops at 16.something. that's total stops not usable stops.
@@8lec_R Yes but there is a difference in being 0.5 of a stop away with the signs ratio of 2 and being 2-3 stops away.
no other manufacturer really even shows their claimed latitude on a xyla chart regardless of the signal to noise ratio where as Arri surpasses it.
Great off load of information here and Craig knows his stuff. Impressed by both. (Craig and Camera)
What is the bitdepth? Has this been announced?
my question, as well. i’m assuming 12
17:19
Maybe just watch the damn video before to ask questions… what a concept, huh?
@@Spidouz How about having a more civil tone to strangers? A simple nice answer to my question would have sufficed.
@@ethanhegel8576 it’s actually likely 16 bit as the previous Ursa 12Ks are read out in 16 bit
@@Spidouz missed it listening while i was working. no need to be an ass.
I doubt it would be great fit for corporate shoots.
Cause they want HAVC or H264 not BRAW :(.
But with DJI Focus Pro it's feasible from filming point of view (1 man band).
The Camera Assistant side panel is the only problem I see - it only works for stactic shots. The moment you get the camera moving, your focus guy wont be running around, he will need a remote display, as usual.
Focus guy doesn't use the side display for pulling focus. They use a wireless system usually with a screen but sometimes without depending on the complexity of the shot
The screen is for 2nd camera op who will change settings while the 1st camera op cannot.
@@8lec_R That's my point: but blackmagic guy on the video implied that this side monitor was useful for camera assistance AND focus control.
@ IT could be useful for focus in certain instances. But yeah it’s mainly gonna be used for changing settings. It seems to me that BM just put in the focus features because they could. Like more of a “why not include it?” Kind of thing
They gotta put something in there besides blackmagic raw.
Nothing is better, so no need to
Nothing comes even close. Unless you want lossless... But like why...
If you want h264 or h265 you're probably better off with another camera. Cuz h264 and h265 is gonna be practically impossible to deal with at those massive resolutions.
18:1 compression is smaller than pro res. So why even bother with pro res.
The 10g ethernet seems useless unless you can off load while the camera is recording. If not you’d be better off buying two media modules and when one gets full you can immediately change the module without waiting to off load the camera.
机器两边的屏幕，是那木的不像电影机器。
The screens on both sides of the machine are wooden unlike movie machines.
Ok.. my brain is broken... You get storage with the camera for $15k .... Ya I can't even ... I generally don't understand
Hey, BM. Let me test out that 17k camera for you. I'll put it to some real-world uses on the streets of Los Angeles. Documentary ENG style. 😊
O genlock where at thou
Might be very problematic having an open 5" LCD screen on the right side of the camera which can be susceptible to damage while operating 💥
I didn't catch anything about bit depth.... if this beautiful camera can only output in 12 bit braw it will be a colossal MISS for blackmagic. The Arri Red and Sony cameras can give you 16 bit which is one of the things that really separates cinema cameras from the pro-sumer ones. Can this camera output 16 BIT / or with an external recorder?
Sony cameras can shoot 16 BIT and the skin tones still look like madame tussauds wax museum. So it's not everything.
@@PBarry I'm not going to debate that point, but just invite you to Google the list of theatrical released films shot on Venice/ 2. Bit depth IS everything. That and latitude. What is overrated is resolution. Even if you're digitally pushing in a smidge, is 12k worth it. It's all about the color bit depth.
17:19 16 bit down to 12 bit
@@demitriusmcdonald4026 thanks if it's a true 16 bit recordable camera like Arri or Sony it's definitely something to think about. For ME that's the most important thing. Color rendering. Followed by shutter read out (on non global shutters) and then resolution ( because how many of us really do digital push ins)
... But can it run Crysis?
Beer Through Nose!
I would wait an year for the Black magic to drop the price to $10k, just like their they dropped price of Ursa mini pro 12k from $10k to $6k.
BMD’s new recording modules further illustrate how goofy and overpriced RED’s “proprietary” SSDs were. If you are going to charge an arm and a leg for something, make it actually unique and valuable compared to third party options. Nice work BMD.
😂😂 my dude just called 12ms "Reasonable" ... So many other companies are crying rn 😢😢💀💀
Makes a no holdsbarn camera, "regardless of the price" still charging 15k .... Is it still April 1st ... Someone in BM is on that good ish... I love it!
Alexa Mini LF is 7,4ms in 4K.
This blackmagic is 6ms in 8k and less than 5ms in 4k. What are you talking about ?
@@sebastiend3547 THey are crying, not laghing or making fun of crying. 12ms is already pretty good is what I'm saying and at that resolution non the less. Read my other comment....
Can someone explain to me who makes use of the 12K and how? For me this is a gigantic drawback because of data size
landscapes, volume backdrops, vfx plates; and braw has up to 18:1 compression, so depending on your needs it’s manageable.
Who cares? You can still use 8k, 6k or 4k with the whole censor and no crop… so just pick the resolution that works for you, stop whining about things that aren’t designed for YOU!
You aren’t limited to 12k though lol
Not even Imax supports anything more than 4k viewing.
@@allencrider viewing is totally different. High resolution is used for things like vfx plates, among many others… afterwards, the product is still mastered in 1080, 2k or 4k
What would the cost be for the camera, lens and rig in the video? 12k seems like overkill. I'm good with just 4k with 99 percent of my shots. If you need to do a major crop in and motion zoom/pan maybe the 12k could make sense. I'd like to see a shot like that with this camera to justify the 12k.
That lens costs $40k
Ok, that's serious budget territory. I have not passed $3k for a lens, so I have a ways to go!
@@rickdeckardbladerunner2049there’s cheaper options the camera comes with a ef mount and you could buy a lens for 600-800 dollars (Sigma 18-35mm)
I think the point of the 12k is so you can crop/zoom the image and you still have a good quality picture.
“Just Say No To Proprietary Media!” - This camera needs is a CF Express Type C 4.0 card slot. Type C offers a four-lane PCIe Gen4 interface with up to 8 GB/s data rate. This camera maxes out at 4 GB/s, a Type C exceeds this cameras needs.
Rolling shutter is "reasonable" ... 2-5x faster than Burano 😅😅😅
Kinda weird that it can do cfexpress with a module but you're initially forced to buy the 8TB media. Also there are so many extraneous features I really hope they plan to release a cut down mini version. Most people don't need two big screens or 10gige or 8tb storage and most people don't want a big body. Hopefully like arri with the Alexa LF BM realizes the market is going toward smaller cameras and do a 12k mini if the sensor ends up being worth the investment.
My other red flag is the 250w AC power adapter and b-mount, hopefully this is just overpowered for potential pro accessories and not a 200w camera body that eats 98wh batteries in 20min as that will be a dealbreaker for most who don't want to need to carry 20lbs worth of batteries with it that cost $10k extra
Why would you want to buy a 12K camera, if you don't have the media that supports filming in 12K? Buy another camera!
We still don't know how good this camera is. If it's as good as a $25.000 camera, then why complain about getting the cost down, by removing the screens.
Obviously, this camera isn't for you, because it doesn't meet your requirements. So find something else. There are people that will love this camera.
@@akyhne Why so defensive? I'm not knocking the camera, it's not uncommon for electronics and camera companies to first release the most expensive version of their product and then subsequently release cut down versions to capture more of the market. And blackmagic has a primarily cost-conscious userbase so it seems it could benefit them to allow people better access to their technology by having tiered features. One thing that stands out to me is the features they packed in but those features all come at a cost and that cost could kill the camera like it did their last 12k or like the Alexa LF which wasn't very popular because of its massive body and many features users would've rathered trade for a smaller less expensive and more manageable body. No other manufacturers force you to buy media with their body or put two non-detachable full quality LCD screens on their bodies (or even one), and there might be a good reason for that...
It seems pretty fair to assume given the published datarates and calculator that cfexpress could likely handle 12k 24fps at any compression ratio other than 5:1 and certainly could do it at q5.
My worry is that you're right that there will be a small handful of people who love the camera like the last 12k but it doesn't appeal to the much larger market. There are just a lot of things in this camera that don't line up well with the needs and expectations of more seasoned shooters who can actually afford it. And if the power draw is as massive as I worry it might be then it could be a truly niche product again.
@@noahyv "So, here at BlackMagic Design, we would love to sell you this camera. It can record in 12K, but unfortunately, we don't sell the camera, with storage, that is fast enough. You would have to buy that separately. Instead, we sell it with an inferior storage solution, but hey, that's your problem, not ours!"
Yeah, that would work!
@@akyhne I don't get what you mean. Literally every camera ever made is sold without media. You buy media separately. If it supports multiple kinds of media you buy the media type and quantity that fits your use best. If you already have media that works you don't have to buy new media. No one wants to get forced into buying media that doesn't work with any other camera. I'm not saying I don't think the new type of media could be useful or a good idea, I'm just saying forcing you to buy it with the camera is a very very odd choice and not something really any other manufacturer does for good reason.
I sort of get why they went with a lot of the decisions they did, they want to create a new standard for workflows. If they get everyone hooked on their 10gbe direct offloading and super fast pcie-x4 offloading and wifi connectivity and 8tb standard superfast media then people will want to stay in their ecosystem but I don't think it's going to go the way they think. These features may create a cost and size and power draw barrier that will hold the camera system back if people can't take some of the features a la carte.
@@noahyv The storage media, the camera uses, is new. It doesn't exist, outside Blackmagic Design. So you need to buy their media anyway, and it's even cheaper, than the slower media, it supports.
All this tech is nothing when image is not improved (original 12k is big example ) !Let’s wait and see how much improvement Blackmagic made in terms of DR and colors and noise
12k is cool but for what is it good for if people use full hd and 4k monitors? Imagine editing a 12k video but not being able to see the full resolution ever as no 12k screens exist
VFX artists would die, to work on film shot in 12K. It makes getting a clean mask so much easier. You can do that, on any monitor, even a 1080p monitor.
The 12k makes the other resolutions look better. And since there is literally no penalty for shooting all the way down to 4k, you never have to shoot 12k. I'm buying this asap and I don't plan on ever shooting 12k
@@akyhne interesting
Lets whine about a side screen. Cause thats reason my shots look amateur hour 😫
The screen on the side is dumb. And these people are turning into the high-end camera companies. Instead of buying media for multiple cameras you have to buy a specific one for this one.
1 it comes with 8 TB when you buy the camera. And two you can offload the media with the 10gig Ethernet port so you never have to pull the media out.
@@JamesJacksonFilmz you have to buy the media separate. I know black magic they don’t even include a power cable. It’s just the camera and owners manual.
@@diesel7903 this particular camera they specifically state that the camera comes with 8tb of N.2nve media when you buy the camera. They’ve stated this in multiple interviews.
Why haven’t you overcome the obstacles associated w/ the incorporation of a ‘GLOBAL SHUTTER’, in all of your Cinema Production Camera models? This is what we desire! We do not want ‘High End’ Cinema production Cameras with ‘ROLLING SHUTTERS!’
Have you seen their rolling shutter numbers? It's literally Alexa levels of speed. It's INCREDIBLY fast.
Do you even make video's?
global shutter = reduction in dynamic range. also 6ms in 8k is INSANELY fast readout
@@EastonOliver he maybe want ms of crt(¿
Global shutter is useless, do you really think someone’s going to be watching a film and pause it to see if the image is shifting. Not only that to have image shifting you really have to be moving the camera fast and a lot to notice. In that case I don’t think human eye balls can really till a difference. Global shutter is very expensive and a waste of money.
Absolutely nobody asked for a camera with a 1980’s fragile flip screen on it. Blackmagic consistently has the absolutely worst industrial design.
Just... don't flip the screens, if you buy one?! Problem solved!
It's a golden age for filmmakers (maybe it's always been) after seeing what Gareth Edwards did with a Sony FX3 for The Creator you can go inexpensive and easy to travel or you can go high end like this. Amazing what technology can be created with capitalism.