Yes I believe too using both the Ursa Cine 12k and 17k for myGospel movie music concerts and music video shorts!!! Thank you Black Magic design Staff!!
Let's not get too carried away. IMAX is two of these sensors stacked on top of each other with extra width to spare. Even if the resolution were equal, the field of view and shallow depth of field is vastly different. This is a great step in the right direction though. Cine 17K = 5 perf / 70mm IMAX = 15 perf / 70mm
@@raredreamfootage by the way, the other two cameras that came before this one are the 9x7 camera and the big sky camera, both shoot 18K and have the large square sensors like IMAX
@@raredreamfootage not getting to carried away at all bro not sure if your listening correctly Grant petty said imagine a camera that can shoot IMAX STYLE RESOLUTIONS" he never ever claimed to be exactly like imax
I just like the alexa lf texture and more on that camera than the ursa cine 12k..highlight roll too, even if dr is on par. If the 17k is just a stitched 12k...then alexa is still where it's at.
@@errol3184 yea I’m extremely anxious to see the footage that comes out this camera (17k) in terms of the highlight roll off I think the ursa can achieve really good roll off esp with highlight recovery
Arri 65 sensor is 54.12mm x 25.59mm opposed to the ursa cine 17k 50.808 x 23.316 so the sensor of the arri is larger for sure and the photo-sites will most like be bigger too but regardless but are still 65mm sensors
@@CineAmaniacs Very excited, but wondering why Arri is considered 65 when it’s 54.12 diagonally? How does one define 65? Was the film perforations part of that 65 mm, so that the usable space was less on a film camera? On a traditional 65 or 70 mm film, how many millimeters were usable diagonally?
I’m not comparing image quality or anything to arri if you watched the video I was careful with my words I said this is an idea of what we maybe getting with the 65mm sensor from blackmagic. arri is the closest thing we can go off of
Yes the Alexa 65 still has the dual gain advantage, BUT the Cine 17K is a native RBGW sensor with native BRAW support. This means you get immense data output efficiency. You can shoot in a variety of resolutions without compromising the crop factor (field of view), dynamic range, image quality and readout speed. The Cine 17K also looks to be a single piece of silicon (not verified yet), whereas the Alexa 65 is a tripple stitched sensor which may cause wierd internal reflections at certain angles. I don't have stats on the 17K recording, but their 12K BRAW is as storage efficient as 8K Canon RAW / Prores RAW / NRAW and is plays back smoother which should allow artists to create better.
@@raredreamfootage absolutely bro i truly believe the 12k cine 17k cine is going to change the industry forever kinda like the raptor X ( large format gobal sensor) by the way whats your opinion on the raptor x
I will be surprised if they can pull and store 40%-50% more data at the same frame rates as the 12k. We will know more towards the end of the year of course, but most likely BM will have to cap the processing at lower frame rates to keep the system stable. Also, detail is double edged. Sometimes it can tell you more and sometimes it can be distracting. But the biggest limitation of the 17k will be file management and transmission from your work site. A 12k produces about a terabyte per camera, **per hour** of filming. At 17k you’re racking up data 40% faster. That alone will keep this a niche camera, not to mention how much more robust Alexa cameras are compared with BM. If I’m headed to a desert, I’m counting on ARRI. The 17k is still amazing. It will get used out there in the film world. It might displace Red in some settings (depending on how things go with Nikon) but it will remain an up hill battle for high end cinema acceptance.
As far as file management i think there new media module CF will do the trick remember were getting an 8 TB and we can also get a 16 TB thats more then enough yes arri proved themselves i get it but im telling you this is revolutionary give BlackMagic a chance their giving us imax to the masses arri isn't doing that
Also blackmagic has always been good when it comes to storage space expect maybe the og ursa 12k and when it comes to play back you can do that in any quality from there cameras i dont see how this will be any different
Stop it with the stops , we all know they are never the same number as advertised after testing . If it’s as good as the Alexa seasons in terms of Dr 14 usable stops , I’m all in
Black magic is usally accurate and have a good track record for being honest plus every knows if you use noise reduction on clips it actual gives you the DR that’s advertised this camera is gonna be it trust me
@@chicobraz4335 did you check it yourself using noise reduction. Just look at the test online you bring back stops of DR using noise reduction just check any one of Gerald undone videos
It's good reason to suspect it will be too, given they're using a 16-bit ADC instead of a 14-bit ADC, that promising that we may get at least 14 stops, which is in line with alexa.
@@CineAmaniacs Historically they haven't been conservative advertising usable stops of dynamic range, the bmcc6k advertised 13 stops and sat around 11.5. So the 16 stops will probably sit around 14 for the ursa cine 12k, which still is fantastic if that's the case.
I don’t think you’ve used a camera before. You only read what’s on paper but have never got your soft hands on any of the systems. You simply read what the manufacturer wanted you know. Even the point of more dynamic range the URSA will have is most likely false as they exaggerate figures like that. Arri’s calculation on DR is accurate, Black Magic lies a bit. 6K is usually enough. Filmmakers don’t even want more resolution and they prove it but always wanting the oldest de-tuned lenses to remove detail. This is more appreciation of innovation which i understand but be real, have you ever used a cam over $6,000?
to say i never used a camera before is insane you can clearly see i have video are on my page secondly i used arri ,RED , sony cinema cameras on real sets the question is can you say the same it also sounds like you have a personal with blackmagic that you shoud sort out bro just make sure to come back to this thread when this camera shocks the world and is the most used dont go anywhere
There's also plenty of misconceptions in the market that a higher pixel density means higher perceived resolution. The best eyes can see up to 14 line pairs (28 details) per mm at a viewing distance of 25cm, we're particularly bias to seeing greater contrast for low to mid spatial frequencies, no where near the resolving power of most systems. The scattering properties of film actually lowers contrast for low to mid spatial frequencies far more than digital sensors, so even though 15/70 imax film has a longer tail on an MTF plot, resolving up to 18k for print stock, it's modulation for lower spatial frequencies which actually count for perceived resolution is less than that of Alexa 65. And yes it's surprisingly true, Alexa 65 at 6k produces a higher perceived resolution than 15/70 imax ocn scanned at 11k.
@@SHDEdits question id love to hear your opinion on the RED v Raptor [X} 8K VV and after your opinion how do you think it will stand up compared to the 17k or the 12k cine from blackmagic
@@CineAmaniacs If resolution is the topic, if black magic ends up employing similar sensor technology as they did for their super35 12k, I would expect the raptors to still out perform in that department. The MTF between each channel of red sensors is very consistent, but what is interesting about black magic sensors is their MTF between channels is much closer to film, with the blue and green records performing best, and the red record worst, typical of camera negative film. If you know what you're doing with color science and emulation, the raptors are a better capture device, if you don't, I think the black magic's produce a nicer image out of the gate.
Yes I believe too using both the Ursa Cine 12k and 17k for myGospel movie music concerts and music video shorts!!!
Thank you Black Magic design Staff!!
Bro its going to be Legendary i feel like you see the vision
Now we have 3 digital cameras that comes close to true IMAX
Excatly thats insane blackmagic is going to change the game again
Let's not get too carried away. IMAX is two of these sensors stacked on top of each other with extra width to spare. Even if the resolution were equal, the field of view and shallow depth of field is vastly different. This is a great step in the right direction though.
Cine 17K = 5 perf / 70mm
IMAX = 15 perf / 70mm
@@raredreamfootage I was talking about the resolution
@@raredreamfootage by the way, the other two cameras that came before this one are the 9x7 camera and the big sky camera, both shoot 18K and have the large square sensors like IMAX
@@raredreamfootage not getting to carried away at all bro not sure if your listening correctly Grant petty said imagine a camera that can shoot IMAX STYLE RESOLUTIONS" he never ever claimed to be exactly like imax
I just like the alexa lf texture and more on that camera than the ursa cine 12k..highlight roll too, even if dr is on par. If the 17k is just a stitched 12k...then alexa is still where it's at.
@@errol3184 yea I’m extremely anxious to see the footage that comes out this camera (17k) in terms of the highlight roll off I think the ursa can achieve really good roll off esp with highlight recovery
It will actually be 17k. I will say the Arri 65 has larger photo sites and the sensor is slightly larger
Arri 65 sensor is 54.12mm x 25.59mm opposed to the ursa cine 17k 50.808 x 23.316 so the sensor of the arri is larger for sure and the photo-sites will most like be bigger too but regardless but are still 65mm sensors
Yes they are bigger, which also has an impact on the image. I’m looking forward to seeing what will happen with this sensor.
@@erosefilms same here bro at the end of the day im just excited about this and cant wait to test it
@@CineAmaniacs Very excited, but wondering why Arri is considered 65 when it’s 54.12 diagonally? How does one define 65? Was the film perforations part of that 65 mm, so that the usable space was less on a film camera? On a traditional 65 or 70 mm film, how many millimeters were usable diagonally?
Alexa 65 is cutting edge. Blackmagic are doing an excellent job. You can't compare the two. Porsche vs a Honda Civic. They are both excellent cars.
I’m not comparing image quality or anything to arri if you watched the video I was careful with my words I said this is an idea of what we maybe getting with the 65mm sensor from blackmagic. arri is the closest thing we can go off of
@@CineAmaniacs2 more stops though? Raptor just tested a stop below the alexa lf on cine d.
@@errol3184 16 is the most blackmagic has ever giving us and not like other brands they usally don’t lie well actually be getting 16 stops
Yes the Alexa 65 still has the dual gain advantage, BUT the Cine 17K is a native RBGW sensor with native BRAW support. This means you get immense data output efficiency. You can shoot in a variety of resolutions without compromising the crop factor (field of view), dynamic range, image quality and readout speed.
The Cine 17K also looks to be a single piece of silicon (not verified yet), whereas the Alexa 65 is a tripple stitched sensor which may cause wierd internal reflections at certain angles.
I don't have stats on the 17K recording, but their 12K BRAW is as storage efficient as 8K Canon RAW / Prores RAW / NRAW and is plays back smoother which should allow artists to create better.
@@raredreamfootage absolutely bro i truly believe the 12k cine 17k cine is going to change the industry forever kinda like the raptor X ( large format gobal sensor) by the way whats your opinion on the raptor x
If the 17 K camera is $30,000 I’ll buy 10 bro I don’t even have the money😂😂😂
🤣🤣🤣 that’s a lot of cameras !!
Nah, I'll wait for the PYXIS version which should be out in a few years.
Maybe this sensor will make it into the much-anticipated replacement turret for the OG Ursa! 😂😅😂😅😂
It’s a good thought but I don’t think that’s happening
I will be surprised if they can pull and store 40%-50% more data at the same frame rates as the 12k. We will know more towards the end of the year of course, but most likely BM will have to cap the processing at lower frame rates to keep the system stable. Also, detail is double edged. Sometimes it can tell you more and sometimes it can be distracting. But the biggest limitation of the 17k will be file management and transmission from your work site. A 12k produces about a terabyte per camera, **per hour** of filming. At 17k you’re racking up data 40% faster. That alone will keep this a niche camera, not to mention how much more robust Alexa cameras are compared with BM. If I’m headed to a desert, I’m counting on ARRI. The 17k is still amazing. It will get used out there in the film world. It might displace Red in some settings (depending on how things go with Nikon) but it will remain an up hill battle for high end cinema acceptance.
As far as file management i think there new media module CF will do the trick remember were getting an 8 TB and we can also get a 16 TB thats more then enough yes arri proved themselves i get it but im telling you this is revolutionary give BlackMagic a chance their giving us imax to the masses arri isn't doing that
Also blackmagic has always been good when it comes to storage space expect maybe the og ursa 12k and when it comes to play back you can do that in any quality from there cameras i dont see how this will be any different
Probably Thanksgiving Day or Christmas Day release!!
@@raymondharrisoncomposer im hoping christmas
For my Gospel music video production projects I’m purchasing 4 Ursa Cine 12k cameras in June!
Stop it with the stops , we all know they are never the same number as advertised after testing . If it’s as good as the Alexa seasons in terms of Dr 14 usable stops , I’m all in
Black magic is usally accurate and have a good track record for being honest plus every knows if you use noise reduction on clips it actual gives you the DR that’s advertised this camera is gonna be it trust me
@@CineAmaniacs incorrect , look at cined tests and you will know that they are usually 2-2.5 stops less than advertised
@@chicobraz4335 did you check it yourself using noise reduction. Just look at the test online you bring back stops of DR using noise reduction just check any one of Gerald undone videos
It's good reason to suspect it will be too, given they're using a 16-bit ADC instead of a 14-bit ADC, that promising that we may get at least 14 stops, which is in line with alexa.
@@CineAmaniacs Historically they haven't been conservative advertising usable stops of dynamic range, the bmcc6k advertised 13 stops and sat around 11.5. So the 16 stops will probably sit around 14 for the ursa cine 12k, which still is fantastic if that's the case.
I don’t think you’ve used a camera before. You only read what’s on paper but have never got your soft hands on any of the systems. You simply read what the manufacturer wanted you know. Even the point of more dynamic range the URSA will have is most likely false as they exaggerate figures like that. Arri’s calculation on DR is accurate, Black Magic lies a bit. 6K is usually enough. Filmmakers don’t even want more resolution and they prove it but always wanting the oldest de-tuned lenses to remove detail. This is more appreciation of innovation which i understand but be real, have you ever used a cam over $6,000?
Ok dude 👍
to say i never used a camera before is insane you can clearly see i have video are on my page secondly i used arri ,RED , sony cinema cameras on real sets the question is can you say the same it also sounds like you have a personal with blackmagic that you shoud sort out bro just make sure to come back to this thread when this camera shocks the world and is the most used dont go anywhere
There's also plenty of misconceptions in the market that a higher pixel density means higher perceived resolution. The best eyes can see up to 14 line pairs (28 details) per mm at a viewing distance of 25cm, we're particularly bias to seeing greater contrast for low to mid spatial frequencies, no where near the resolving power of most systems. The scattering properties of film actually lowers contrast for low to mid spatial frequencies far more than digital sensors, so even though 15/70 imax film has a longer tail on an MTF plot, resolving up to 18k for print stock, it's modulation for lower spatial frequencies which actually count for perceived resolution is less than that of Alexa 65. And yes it's surprisingly true, Alexa 65 at 6k produces a higher perceived resolution than 15/70 imax ocn scanned at 11k.
@@SHDEdits question id love to hear your opinion on the RED v Raptor [X} 8K VV and after your opinion how do you think it will stand up compared to the 17k or the 12k cine from blackmagic
@@CineAmaniacs If resolution is the topic, if black magic ends up employing similar sensor technology as they did for their super35 12k, I would expect the raptors to still out perform in that department. The MTF between each channel of red sensors is very consistent, but what is interesting about black magic sensors is their MTF between channels is much closer to film, with the blue and green records performing best, and the red record worst, typical of camera negative film. If you know what you're doing with color science and emulation, the raptors are a better capture device, if you don't, I think the black magic's produce a nicer image out of the gate.