Hello everyone! We really enjoyed the video and have appreciated the comments. We recently answered a question about complexity on the Kickstarter page, adding it to the FAQ and we thought it would perhaps we good to add it here, since there's a number of folks asking about the weight. Complexity in the Game and Use of Keywords. Firstly to say, we're still in prototype and we still have months of active development to go. In this time it is our job to make sure we trim and polish where ever we can. Often this won't change WHAT an effect or rule does but rather HOW we word it and present it. Here are some notes from the latest builds compared to the one featured in the press prototype, showcased on this page and in other press materials. - There are now two less keywords. - The keywords are now grouped into categories so that you learn the basic rule for the category and then there are specifics within. So, for example: Cards with Control keywords can be placed on a Location. Only one card with a Control Keyword can be placed on a Location at a time. Any number of pieces may be placed on a card with a Keyword. (not the exact wording but you get the idea) - The resolution of Clashes as been streamlined from a four-step process to a two-step process. - The phases have received polish to better flow and unify actions. - All timings have been clarified into just two categories, in turn order or simultaneous. Additionally, we now don't have any keywords that interrupt the flow of a sequence (for example Vulnerable resolving before Eliminate - Vulnerable doesn't even exist any more). Two final general points. I realise that keywords can be daunting for a lot of people but in the case of this game, a lot are very simple and are used to quickly and communicate abilities: Authority - Can enter the Court. Quest - Can enter a Site of Power. Loyal - Returns to your Hand at the end of the Round. Eliminate - Removes cards from Clashes. Invulnerable - Cannot be eliminated. (these are simplified of course but that's their function). And the reason we use keywords is so that effects can be added or gained in interesting ways. Add Loyal to your agents. Give your Heir Invulnerable. All you cards with Authority gain +1 Authority/or Strength or whatever. But, absolutely, it is the absolute top-priority of the development team now, that we clean and polish and make the final wordings SING. Finally, however, I don't want to trick people or undersell the complexity of this game or the system. We'll do everything in our power to polish and remove snags but it's still a system that gives you a lot of room to do creative things in a systems sandbox. Effects can be transferred, you can create strategic strings of combos and its all built on a collection of different mechanisms that don't, in their totality, really have a direct comparison (ie its not very similar to x...) We want as many people as we can to enjoy the game and we want to work as hard as we can to make that system as inviting and clear to learn but there will always be a curve there (especially with the asymmetric nature of the factions) and I always want to be clear about that, so that someone isn't left disappointed. And we're of course happy to answer any questions! Pablo and the Eerie Idol team
I'm kind of with others here who think that the game is incredibly beautiful but a little too convoluted for its own good (although I very much appreciate the mental gymnastics on display - must have been very fun to design). Seems like it could be fun for three or four _very_ dedicated players. Reminds me a little of Gwent, but also a bit of Forbidden Stars (a discontinued game that is still very highly regarded for its complex and brutal combat mechanisms), with art like the Banner Saga video games.
I think the design is pretty simple and elegant. They said they aim for mid-complexity and a weight of 3 - 3.5...which so far all play testers have confirmed.
Thank you for another excellent tutorial - very clear, well-organized, and nicely filmed. It confirmed enough for me to make a late pledge, and I am looking forward to playing it.
"The king has gone missing so it up to the leaders of the kingdoms of the four factions to-" Me: To save him "To gain enough influence to take the throne" Me: Oh 😬😂
you are one of the best channels presenting games. Clear, and concise. Keep up with the good work. you deserve all the views and I hope your channel is gonna grow and grow
Thanks for the tutorial! This game has certainly piqued my interest. The card play reminds me of Libertalia: Winds of Galecrest, the asymmetry brings Root to mind, and the theme and some mechanics make me think of Game of Thrones: 2nd Edition and Oath. All games that I very much enjoy!!
the design is gorgeous, I would go straight to the kickstarter page if shipping were available. but the mechanics is so.. scarce? like the game feels a bit empty
the art is beautiful and i’m usually about heavier weight games but im not sure if the heaviness of this game is justified or intuitive really. it seems complex just for complexity sake.
Hey there! It's available on our site if you'd like to have a look (I can't link to it as my comment will get deleted) but also on the campaign page which is currently running. I hope that helps!
Awesome artwork but big concerns around the gameplay. It feels unnecessarily complicated and convoluted, in particular the clashes. But most importantly: clashes feel totally random given the various different card effects. I might as well just roll a die….
Initially. Over the course of the game there will be less and less possibilities to hide information. Also hiding has a cost so it's also an act of balance and part of strategy.
Amazing art, but gosh does this game seem to add complexity just for the sake of complexity.. is there a component that doesn't have an effect and/or one of a hundred keywords to remember? 😅 Also really struggling to find anything that would make me feel involved with the game's mechanics and theme. Hard pass for me, but seems like it's found its audience so congrats to the 1st time editor and designer!
Thank you for this, I was beginning to think that I was losing my mind. Came here from another video where I was flabbergasted with the amount of some really abstract and dense rules, and I thought that it was the youtuber. It wasn't, this game is really pretty but it's like "the emperor's new clothes" -- a really crazy complicated game dressed in high quality art, so that no one can say anything. Almost as if criticizing such a complicated design objectively would make one look stupid. If I'm to be honest, one could even make a parody out of this. "When you lose a territory, only one of your subjugating pieces goes to Heaven, the other stays with you, on the left of your tableau. Then, you have to choose among three options: whether you live, whether you die, and whether you lose the game. However, you can't lose the game if one of your viziers is an opium addict. Now you roll once for each of the remaining pyramids, and if it's a fifth one, roll d12 otherwise roll two d20..." Sigh.
@@milanstevic8424I laughed a lot, thank you 😂 I agree, intricate design is one thing, but something needlessly convoluted is another, such a shame, what a great art.
being a magic the gathering player, the keywords seem to be borrowed from MTG. However, for newer players or people that are not familiar with tabletop games I can see that being very daunting. I like complex style games, but games like Critter Kitchen and Old King's Crown look a little too complex. You'll be spending time arguing over how to resolve moves rather than just playing.
@@Xantexhunter I don't necessarily think it's about the game's complexity. I'm an avid fan of heavier games such as Brass, Ark Nova, and several Splotter games. What troubles me more here is indeed the vast array of keywords, which you mention would be easier to understand for MTG players, but also the disconnect I feel between the game's mechanic and theme and its complexity. Maybe playing the game would actually dissipate that, but watching the different videos or looking at the rulebook (20 pages of rules + 9 pages of location & keyword description + 3 pages of glossary) makes it feel like complexity for the sake of complexity, rather than something that is really needed to elevate the game.
@@LaChazzz It has a learning curve but it's really not that complicated as it seems. Have you ever played Vampire:Masquerade - Vendetta? It seems to be heavily influenced by it. I played V:M - V with total board game noobs and they grasped it after a few rounds. It's just that the mechanics they use are not very wide spread (it's basically a mix of area control combined with bidding and bluffing). The Old King's Crown seems to be actually a very elegant implementation, with a lot of strategy and depth, of this type of game. If you like very interactive and deep games with lots of crazy turns I wouldn't dismiss this one ;) Also Cole Wehrle (the designer or Root) helped to co-design this game so I have high hopes.
![[Gegagedigedagedago] NEW Help Gegagedigedagedago Nugget escape from Nikocado Avocado Challenge](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hJWnwRC2Fz8/mqdefault.jpg)
If this game interests you, here is the link to their campaign! - tinyurl.com/TheOldKingsCrown
Hello everyone! We really enjoyed the video and have appreciated the comments. We recently answered a question about complexity on the Kickstarter page, adding it to the FAQ and we thought it would perhaps we good to add it here, since there's a number of folks asking about the weight.
Complexity in the Game and Use of Keywords.
Firstly to say, we're still in prototype and we still have months of active development to go. In this time it is our job to make sure we trim and polish where ever we can. Often this won't change WHAT an effect or rule does but rather HOW we word it and present it.
Here are some notes from the latest builds compared to the one featured in the press prototype, showcased on this page and in other press materials.
- There are now two less keywords.
- The keywords are now grouped into categories so that you learn the basic rule for the category and then there are specifics within. So, for example:
Cards with Control keywords can be placed on a Location. Only one card with a Control Keyword can be placed on a Location at a time. Any number of pieces may be placed on a card with a Keyword.
(not the exact wording but you get the idea)
- The resolution of Clashes as been streamlined from a four-step process to a two-step process.
- The phases have received polish to better flow and unify actions.
- All timings have been clarified into just two categories, in turn order or simultaneous. Additionally, we now don't have any keywords that interrupt the flow of a sequence (for example Vulnerable resolving before Eliminate - Vulnerable doesn't even exist any more).
Two final general points.
I realise that keywords can be daunting for a lot of people but in the case of this game, a lot are very simple and are used to quickly and communicate abilities:
Authority - Can enter the Court.
Quest - Can enter a Site of Power.
Loyal - Returns to your Hand at the end of the Round.
Eliminate - Removes cards from Clashes.
Invulnerable - Cannot be eliminated.
(these are simplified of course but that's their function).
And the reason we use keywords is so that effects can be added or gained in interesting ways.
Add Loyal to your agents.
Give your Heir Invulnerable.
All you cards with Authority gain +1 Authority/or Strength or whatever.
But, absolutely, it is the absolute top-priority of the development team now, that we clean and polish and make the final wordings SING.
Finally, however, I don't want to trick people or undersell the complexity of this game or the system. We'll do everything in our power to polish and remove snags but it's still a system that gives you a lot of room to do creative things in a systems sandbox. Effects can be transferred, you can create strategic strings of combos and its all built on a collection of different mechanisms that don't, in their totality, really have a direct comparison (ie its not very similar to x...)
We want as many people as we can to enjoy the game and we want to work as hard as we can to make that system as inviting and clear to learn but there will always be a curve there (especially with the asymmetric nature of the factions) and I always want to be clear about that, so that someone isn't left disappointed.
And we're of course happy to answer any questions!
Pablo and the Eerie Idol team
I'm kind of with others here who think that the game is incredibly beautiful but a little too convoluted for its own good (although I very much appreciate the mental gymnastics on display - must have been very fun to design). Seems like it could be fun for three or four _very_ dedicated players. Reminds me a little of Gwent, but also a bit of Forbidden Stars (a discontinued game that is still very highly regarded for its complex and brutal combat mechanisms), with art like the Banner Saga video games.
I think the design is pretty simple and elegant. They said they aim for mid-complexity and a weight of 3 - 3.5...which so far all play testers have confirmed.
I like convoluted. Game might be too hard for you. Doesn't mean it should be simplified
Do you think Magic the Gathering is convoluted?
@@adam551982 Never played it. Why do you ask?
@@psterud litmus test
Thank you for another excellent tutorial - very clear, well-organized, and nicely filmed. It confirmed enough for me to make a late pledge, and I am looking forward to playing it.
Beautiful art
"The king has gone missing so it up to the leaders of the kingdoms of the four factions to-"
Me: To save him
"To gain enough influence to take the throne"
Me: Oh 😬😂
LOL! That's the best comment ever!!
"Gone missing"
Love the color shades in this game.
Like this one a lot. Thanks you always do a good job explaining.
you are one of the best channels presenting games. Clear, and concise. Keep up with the good work. you deserve all the views and I hope your channel is gonna grow and grow
Great explanation. I don't usually back Kickstarters but this one has me intrigued.
Thanks for the tutorial! This game has certainly piqued my interest. The card play reminds me of Libertalia: Winds of Galecrest, the asymmetry brings Root to mind, and the theme and some mechanics make me think of Game of Thrones: 2nd Edition and Oath. All games that I very much enjoy!!
How does it play at 2? Have Naveen and you tried it?
Would love to hear this answer. I primarily play at 2 with my wife.
Same!
they wont answer this since it's paid tutorial. Very well done though. Good job Monica!
the design is gorgeous, I would go straight to the kickstarter page if shipping were available. but the mechanics is so.. scarce? like the game feels a bit empty
Just backed this - very unique
Hope the video was helpful!
Looks great but rules difficult a bit😅😅
There's definitely quite a few details to keep track of in this one!
the art is beautiful and i’m usually about heavier weight games but im not sure if the heaviness of this game is justified or intuitive really. it seems complex just for complexity sake.
I can't seem to find a rule book.. is there no available PDF file or similar?
Anyway, this is visually interesting, if anything.
It's linked on their KS page:
4ecd71e2-7491-4e43-a6cd-da0f1dc1ca42.filesusr.com/ugd/5adad5_b4535d45c3e044e1bcca76f87ef9ca21.pdf
Hey there! It's available on our site if you'd like to have a look (I can't link to it as my comment will get deleted) but also on the campaign page which is currently running. I hope that helps!
Awesome artwork but big concerns around the gameplay. It feels unnecessarily complicated and convoluted, in particular the clashes. But most importantly: clashes feel totally random given the various different card effects. I might as well just roll a die….
*waves from Scotland* Ta for that!
Seems that the hidden cards and take that elements bring a lot of randomness to the game
Initially. Over the course of the game there will be less and less possibilities to hide information. Also hiding has a cost so it's also an act of balance and part of strategy.
How is the solo in this game?
Amazing art, but gosh does this game seem to add complexity just for the sake of complexity.. is there a component that doesn't have an effect and/or one of a hundred keywords to remember? 😅
Also really struggling to find anything that would make me feel involved with the game's mechanics and theme.
Hard pass for me, but seems like it's found its audience so congrats to the 1st time editor and designer!
Thank you for this, I was beginning to think that I was losing my mind. Came here from another video where I was flabbergasted with the amount of some really abstract and dense rules, and I thought that it was the youtuber. It wasn't, this game is really pretty but it's like "the emperor's new clothes" -- a really crazy complicated game dressed in high quality art, so that no one can say anything. Almost as if criticizing such a complicated design objectively would make one look stupid.
If I'm to be honest, one could even make a parody out of this. "When you lose a territory, only one of your subjugating pieces goes to Heaven, the other stays with you, on the left of your tableau. Then, you have to choose among three options: whether you live, whether you die, and whether you lose the game. However, you can't lose the game if one of your viziers is an opium addict. Now you roll once for each of the remaining pyramids, and if it's a fifth one, roll d12 otherwise roll two d20..."
Sigh.
@@milanstevic8424I laughed a lot, thank you 😂 I agree, intricate design is one thing, but something needlessly convoluted is another, such a shame, what a great art.
being a magic the gathering player, the keywords seem to be borrowed from MTG. However, for newer players or people that are not familiar with tabletop games I can see that being very daunting.
I like complex style games, but games like Critter Kitchen and Old King's Crown look a little too complex. You'll be spending time arguing over how to resolve moves rather than just playing.
@@Xantexhunter I don't necessarily think it's about the game's complexity. I'm an avid fan of heavier games such as Brass, Ark Nova, and several Splotter games.
What troubles me more here is indeed the vast array of keywords, which you mention would be easier to understand for MTG players, but also the disconnect I feel between the game's mechanic and theme and its complexity.
Maybe playing the game would actually dissipate that, but watching the different videos or looking at the rulebook (20 pages of rules + 9 pages of location & keyword description + 3 pages of glossary) makes it feel like complexity for the sake of complexity, rather than something that is really needed to elevate the game.
@@LaChazzz It has a learning curve but it's really not that complicated as it seems. Have you ever played Vampire:Masquerade - Vendetta? It seems to be heavily influenced by it. I played V:M - V with total board game noobs and they grasped it after a few rounds. It's just that the mechanics they use are not very wide spread (it's basically a mix of area control combined with bidding and bluffing). The Old King's Crown seems to be actually a very elegant implementation, with a lot of strategy and depth, of this type of game. If you like very interactive and deep games with lots of crazy turns I wouldn't dismiss this one ;)
Also Cole Wehrle (the designer or Root) helped to co-design this game so I have high hopes.
The art is great. The gameplay would take a few plays to really get used to.
So you randomly place cards and than the game sortof plays itself... ?
Beautiful game, but there’s a lot going on here. Weight might be a bit much for most
It's just medium weight. It's "dense" but really not that complicated.
This game gives me Oath vibes for some reason.
Cole Wehrle helped with it's design.
I hope that they‘ll add a German version. Too much text for my gaming group to table it :(
I feel like I have a better chance at becoming a brain surgeon than learning this game. 🤷♂️
Beautiful gameplay. Art is ok too
This game feels like marshall from HIMYM explaining his own boardgame.