The 5U 8x Lenovo Tiny rack unit on the left is from MK1 Manufacturing (link in description.) Not sponsored, just supporting a small business. As a fun fact, the "stand" for the M90n-IoT and M90n Nano is actually 24x Intel Optane DCPMM 128GB Modules. So it is a 3TB Optane stand :-)
Hi Patrick, and STH fans, two things you missed about that Nano device. 1) The CPU is one that you find in common notebooks, the U class. What you'd find in standard Lenovo, HP, and Dell workhorse style business notebooks at 15W. 2) That USB-C port at the back can also be plugged into modern monitors that have Alt-Mode DP, aka. DP over USB-C as well as PD IN via a USB-C connection. You can power the Nano and have the display come on, as well as use a USB Hub on the display if it has it, from one cable. You don't need that 65W Slim-Tip power brick in that situation. (Disclosure: I work for Lenovo, but I'm here as a tech enthusiast.) (edit: It's a port, not a cable at the back.)
Hi Bob. Thanks for that. Good point on the PD-IN! I did catch the USB Type-C to DP both in the video and on the main site since that is the second video output.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo It wasn't that you didn't specifically call it out as DP-Out, it's while using the PD-IN that people don't realize that it will also do PD-IN, DP Out and USB-C Data out, all at the same time. That's what I was trying to clarify. Sorry for the confusion :)
@@bobcarpenter1551 Can you tell if all the Lenovo Nano units fit in all Lenovo Tiny in one Monitors. This information is not obvious to me on Lenovo's website
@@TheChris69er the IoT units do not, as they require passive air cooling. The regular 'n' models have a cage that you can use with the TIO and other Tiny mounting. Part # 4XF0V81632 The Nano also has its own mounting system outside of this as well including DIN rails.
About the VDI cluster, just be aware that Windows 10 Pro EULA strictly forbids that kind of use. “Restrictions: Use the software as server software, for commercial hosting, make the software available for simultaneous use by multiple users over a network, install the software on a server and allow users to access it remotely, or install the software on a device for use only by remote users”. In that particular case you are “installing the software for use only by remote users”. You need VDA or a Windows edition that allows it, and still pay the Microsoft tax. Also, even if you add a monitor keyboard mouse and allow users to login locally, to make it compliant, it would still only allow the primary user to access it (no pooled access), and that user can only be changed each 90 days. Not sure how all this would hold up in court, but that’s what’s written in their “legal” docs.
I live in a trailer and have very restricted desk space. I don't want to mount a pc on the back of my screen as I like to get at the USBs. I use the pc for web, email, office365 and a bunch of old DOS games. Power consumption is not an issue. I replaced one of the 1 litre models with this because it looks good/cute on my desktop and serves all my needs. I have upgraded to a 1tb nvme. It appears I am the target market. I really like it.
I think the M90n-1 would be good for astrophotography. You put it on a plate, power by the same battery pack powers the robotic GEM. You can run all the software from the M90, save the files on it from the cameras. You can remove the antenna, put a N pigtail and attach a big antenna to control from your home or car by RDC. All that with low power consumption, minimal weight and size.
I have Dell Wyse 5070 which it is extremely energy-efficient, has passive cooling and performance good enough for robots, astrophotography. I have not tested video encoding yet, maybe it may work as some kind of webcam server?
This is a really interesting system to replace my aging C2D personal Nextcloud server. All I need is space for my 2TB SSD and 4GB of RAM which this has!
@AstroCat I doubt it'll be able to serve 10 users quick enough but I'm going to try it out since I have a couple of them lying around. They might prove me wrong.
I use these exclusively at work, the i5 8th gen 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD option. They are nice for the price we paid for them. Now the owner of the company chopped my budget and thinks that all computers need to perform at least this well and cost this little (I will not tell you how little we paid because we got a volume discount). When I wanted to get like 30 more a few weeks ago, Lenovo told me NO and said they discontinued the stock SKUs for these. We'd have to wait in line for custom orders and there was no guarantee they could fill the order (and the price was not great compared to Lenovo's newer offerings). We ended up getting in 1 M70q because we needed 1 PC rushed in and then we went to get a few more and couldn't get any. So we settled on the Dell 3080 MFF i5/256/8. I don't like the Dell because it lacks the USB-C (but then again, you don't need it). Unless you get these ultra cheap, go something else.
Windows 10 pro licences are not any sort of cost issue as they can legally be bought off Amazon or eBay for about £10. I have bought over 100 of them to upgrade from home to pro. They all activate and I have passed a Microsoft audit with them.
This would be an absolute beast as a Tensorflow server. You could fit two Google Coral modules. The wifi slot has one PCIe lane, the second M.2 slot has two. That means up to three Edge TPUs. And the gen 2 USB ports mean fast storage. Too expensive for me though. :-(
I'm planning on buying one of the m75n units (ryzen) for someone at work who doesn't need a laptop, but needs her computer in two locations. Perfect little computer for that, since it will work off a usb-c dock/monitor on that back port!
Personally agree with all other stuff but not necessary with the power brick size I run a 1L one as my home server and that power brick runs super hot when the system is under load. In fact, it was running so hot that the external HDD mounted near it is getting overheated on idle, and I had to put aluminium foils facing that brick to reflect some energy off. Considering the form factor, with the space for ventilation reserved around it the brick is taking up almost the same volume as the machine itself. LOL Anyway, this is good content and I appreciate this a lot
thank you i was looking for a low watt gaming computer in case of power outages, it was down to these two, now i know the nano is not good for my purpose
I love the videos in the TMM series on your channel! The hardware looks super cool and I love learning all about it, but do you have a video explaining how the Tiny/Mini/Micro hardware is applied and which components of the nodes contribute to improving which aspects of running them together as a cluster/server?
I have just bought one for 150EUR or 180 dolars with 8GB RAM and 128GB nvme ssd. I want to use it just as a experiment device in my home network and I do not need better performance.
So glad you made this when you did Patrick. Your timing is impeccable. I was literally looking at one of these Nano's last night. Was gonna buy one to play with. But I don't think I'll bother. Definitely interested in those MK1 racks though. Gonna go have a look now.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo I think they're pretty self explanatory. And they're rather expensive for you to buy just to make a video. But I do think it would be a relevant video for the TinyMiniMicro series. Perhaps just do a video on the Lenovo version you already have. It would be easy to compare the different versions by just scrolling through MK1's website a little. I wouldn't go out and buy other versions unless you have an actual use for them.
This is one of the oddest products I have ever seen, the Lenovo tinys are already so small that 99% of business users don't even realise the ThinkCentre they are using has a removable computer in the back of the screen, they just think the whole thing is an AIO. Making a smaller and thus weaker performing version just seems non-sensicle to me, like what purpose could this serve that a regular tiny couldn't do as well or better :S
Driving display boards! There are plenty of locations where all you really need is an Ethernet to HDMI converter. There's a booming business in "single board computers" that's driven by that requirement; unfortunately one has to "deal with" Linux to use them, so many shops will opt for a more expensive one just to get Windows.
Portability and easy storage. These things are great for temporary offices and/or business fairs. And in small office space the small space is a bonus, especially if you don't care much about performance.
I would like to have an example of when a tool less is really useful: I know it might need a little of care, but a screw should not be considered a challenge.
for the original purpose of these machines, its benefit is time efficiency. even something as simple as a few seconds is costly when scaled up to enterprise levels of hundreds. Under a single device, really you wouldnt even need a screw as the back plate would hold the drive down
If you have one system, granted it may not be a huge issue. Many of these units do not come with the additional screws for unpopulated slots. For example, the second M.2 slot does not have mounting hardware so one has to source their own for it. Lenovo typically includes the blue plastic tab parts with systems. If you do not have a M.2 screw, then it takes time to go to the hardware store or order one. Also, the M.2 screw also requires a different bit than the chassis screws in a lot of these systems, so doing a M.2 requires changing a bit/ driver from what is used to open/ close the chassis. The other big item is consistency. The vast majority of screws work fine, but every so often a screw will fall off a magnetized tip or under a table or wherever. In those cases, it often adds not just seconds but minutes. If everything goes well, then it still saves a few seconds. The more nodes you work with, the more these little features become apparent. That was part of Project TinyMiniMicro. There are a lot of 1-off reviews in this space. I wanted to get a nearly complete record of what each vendor is doing.
When you're working on one, tool less isn't really an issue. But when you have to manage assets for a large enterprise which has thousands of these bloody things and it comes time to do a rolling upgrade, trust me, it could save you a lot of time. That being said; Back when I did have to manage vast amounts of workstations in an enterprise environment, they were NOT tool less and it wasn't really something I ever thought about needing. Upgrading internal components wasn't something that happened often. Generally when we upgraded workstations, we replaced the whole unit with the latest model.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Yes the missing screw hardware is infuriating. Just because I decided not to pay your overinflated upgrade price they leave out proprietary brackets and screws. I bought a baggie of m.2 size screws and another of hp 2.5" shoulder screws on aliexpresss because of this. Also bought various lenovo plastic trays for systems like p50 workstation where the spare storage slots are unusable out of box unless populated from factory.
I had a discussion about something like this on Reddit the other day. Someone had created a 7 node Pi4 cluster to do Kubernetes. Don't get me wrong, I love Pi's, and I love clusters, but unless you are severely power constrained I just can't see the point. As Patrick has pretty succinctly put in this video - a single 2650v2 would wipe the floor with the whole cluster, and can be loaded up with hundreds of gigabytes of RAM. You could even get an entire system with dual 2650v2's and 128GB RAM for significantly less than the Pi cluster. Yes, it would use more energy and be louder, but tower versions can be had that largely solve the latter point, and the difference in price can pay for power for a looooong time in most places. I get it, it's fun, and there may be legitimate reasons you need separate physical machines for your purpose but... A kube cluster ain't it. Buy a Dell T620 (or similar), load it up with VMs and go ham. Hell, Craft Computing made 3 E5 v2 uni processor nodes with mostly new parts for under $1k.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo oh yeah, definitely, but that last point was really that you can sort of have cake and eat it - you get multiple physical machines for redundancy and clustering, each of which would out compute the entire pi cluster, at a comparable cost. The example of E5 v2s was really about this is an old processor that is still relatively powerful and cheap to source, and not *too* power hungry. Someone else in the thread mentioned Epyc, and I told them they were talking about a whole different class of compute, and cost.
What the hell is this thing?I have an ASUS ROG, there is a square patch on my screen that won't go away, looked up think laptops and computers and came across this... what is this wizardy - is this a computer you just plug into a monitor? Amazing. I guess Covid really has me living under a rock.
I wish it had 2 Ethernet Ports. I would love to get it as a pfSense router or something like this. Or if it was 2.5GBe. A normal 1L tiny seems a bit overkill.
Now that is a fantastic little pc for light home and office use. I’m just a little concerned about that tiny fan. Upon higher temperatures, wouldn’t this thing go ballistic and produce lots of noise? In that case, the passively cooled version would be more desirable. Of course, the passive version doesn’t look particularly pretty, but then again, it hides easily.
Excellent review. This thing is in diminishing returns territory IMO. You pay more and sacrifice way too much just to gain like a half liter of space. There are probably some real, legitimate use cases for it - like maybe as a mounted controller PC for a piece of equipment or machinery. But other than that I can't imagine this being very useful.
It wouldn't be as disappointing if for the right price. I believe the fanless versions were going for $179 some time ago on sale, so maybe then it'll prove to be worth it if at that price.
I think that if they would have crammed in a (mini) serial port it would have some use actually. Could be a nice small unit for controlling some machines or lab equipment.
Call me a minority, and maybe I've missed this. But i've not see any referal to VMware vSphere compatability. I've shied away from some of the NUC platforms because they don't come with a Intel NIC(s) and USB ethernet isn't supported. So all specs aside, it might not be exactly what you need if you are going the vSphere node/cluster. If you go the Proxmox route for example, then you can run on pretty much everything. Choices.
Are there custom power supplies for these tiny mini micro clusters? Would having a bigger ac to dc supply going to 6 nodes vs each having their own, have advantages?
Just FYI - if you buy one of these and format it for Linux and later want to go back to Windows you CANNOT without paying Lenovo some unGodly extortion sum basically full price for a recovery drive. You cannot reinstall windows even though it has a license. You all may know this but I didn’t and now I have a Linux only box
Are you sure? I have two thinkcentre tiny , i formattted the original OS and install windows 10 without any problem. The windows SN is burned in the BIOS, you can reinstall windows 10 any time you like.
@@mattf4089 Will not install and tech support told me it would be over $100 for a "rescue" usb drive to restore windows. I thought exactly what you describe would happen but it does not work.
MK1 Manufacturing. I talk about it a bit in the TinyMiniMicro lessons learned. If there is interest, I might do a video on that and the 1U 2-node version I purchased.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Funnily enough I've been wondering if rackmount TMM things existed - having a couple nodes would be useful for having things like a dedicated system to RDP into for remote management. Knowing these exist is interesting :D
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Just a slight correction for anyone else googling it. It's actually MK1 Manufacturing. Kinda expensive! It's equivalent to the cost of one of these TinyMiniMicro machines!
P320, P330, or P340 ThinkStation Tiny (With Quadro P620 or P1000) or an M920x ThinkCentre with a Radeon RX 560 could all be built with that configuration.
I've kinda wanted something like this as a mini web script PC, their not exactly cheap though (for my needs) and I've more or less made do with android boxes instead. More limited but they get the job done for the few things I can automate online.
Is it good enough vs my 6th gen cpu and 1000 series 6gb GPU? Will it handle 10 tabs from browser, and how fas i can copy lets say 6gb file to external hdd and some light video editing. Is it good enough? Im thinking to sell my current pc to friend and use something like this or mac mini as main PC.
There is even an i3-8145U, UHD graphics, 8GB, 128GB SSD model on the official Lenovo eBay store for $299 with Windows 10 Pro and no coupon required. Cheaper to import probably.
Ah, perhaps that was less clear. If you look at the Dell 7070 Ultra or 7090 Ultra or something like that. 1L in Dell is "Micro", the slim monitor form factor is "Ultra"
This was just direct from Lenovo without a coupon actually so it was retail price. Not many people are paying list price on these. Since Project TMM was really started for the used units, it would be unfair to compare used ebay pricing with full list pricing. Street pricing is almost always quite a bit lower. I do understand that in other countries, this may vary, but there is no way to do 100+ countries worth of pricing information and make it relevant.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo @ServeTheHome At 11:03 you said $399 was coupon pricing during a sale and it "probably would be different by the time this video is published". So I'm now confused, because it appears to me that you're now saying it is the US retail pricing? I can't access the US pricing, I get redirected but knowing it is a good bar to measure against. I disagree on comparing against used TMM units, I think comparing CoC or performance for the price between new and used units is extremely valuable to any consumer. New products are always going to compete not just with other new products but also used products. In some cases used products are more expensive than new ones. Certainly the M90n is significantly cheaper at full retail locally to me than some of the TMM platforms cost used. Like, $500 cheaper. That is obviously going to have an impact on purchasing decision. In the same line of thought, there are TMM that cost the same or less used than this does new but has twice the performance capacity, that's also going to impact purchasing decision. You seem to understand that in the video. Obviously you don't have to search any other market. I'm certainly not asking you too. Leave that to community members in the comments to advise localised pricing and cherish those people who care enough about your videos to go out and find those localised prices to report back to the community. Doing your videos all in USD is still helpful to use regardless of where in the world we are because it gives some kind of a broad idea of where the market should fall. It's been a problem on TH-cam for many years now that people say "I got this one on sale" or "with a coupon I got it for this price" ... That isn't helpful because those deals don't sick around or could be regional thus destroying the ability for a viewer to legitimately compare pricing or understand where value exists. While I take your point about sales in your region being regular, they aren't as regular everywhere nor are the amount saved on a sale consistent between sales. It would be great if when you get a new product with a coupon or on sale, that at very least the retail pricing without the sale or coupon is included. I can't understate how extremely valuable that information is when trying to make a purchase decision.
Ha so you caught that. I remembered paying $399 and using a coupon. I purchased from Lenovo's Official ebay store (they have a $299 model on special with a Core i3 right now). I used an eBay bucks coupon, but it was $399 before that coupon. I remembered the $399 price and using a coupon, but I messed up that the $399 price was without the eBay coupon.
I have three M1 Mac Minis. If you do not need/ want MacOS then these are better. They are also much smaller and have vPro and such for OOB management. I love the M1's but they are not a direct competitor
The 5U 8x Lenovo Tiny rack unit on the left is from MK1 Manufacturing (link in description.) Not sponsored, just supporting a small business. As a fun fact, the "stand" for the M90n-IoT and M90n Nano is actually 24x Intel Optane DCPMM 128GB Modules. So it is a 3TB Optane stand :-)
Does nano model compare with thin laptops like XPS 13 or MacBook Air?
Also, you could add a backpack test, whether tiny or nano fits n backpack.
I purchased one of these (non-micro) Lenovo minis specifically because of your review. I'm really happy with it, thank you so much!
There is a point where you start paying a premium for the smaller size, and that is before you consider the compromises required.
you mean lingerie?
Size matters
Hi Patrick, and STH fans, two things you missed about that Nano device. 1) The CPU is one that you find in common notebooks, the U class. What you'd find in standard Lenovo, HP, and Dell workhorse style business notebooks at 15W. 2) That USB-C port at the back can also be plugged into modern monitors that have Alt-Mode DP, aka. DP over USB-C as well as PD IN via a USB-C connection. You can power the Nano and have the display come on, as well as use a USB Hub on the display if it has it, from one cable. You don't need that 65W Slim-Tip power brick in that situation. (Disclosure: I work for Lenovo, but I'm here as a tech enthusiast.) (edit: It's a port, not a cable at the back.)
Hi Bob. Thanks for that. Good point on the PD-IN! I did catch the USB Type-C to DP both in the video and on the main site since that is the second video output.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo It wasn't that you didn't specifically call it out as DP-Out, it's while using the PD-IN that people don't realize that it will also do PD-IN, DP Out and USB-C Data out, all at the same time. That's what I was trying to clarify. Sorry for the confusion
:)
@@bobcarpenter1551 Can you tell if all the Lenovo Nano units fit in all Lenovo Tiny in one Monitors. This information is not obvious to me on Lenovo's website
@@TheChris69er the IoT units do not, as they require passive air cooling. The regular 'n' models have a cage that you can use with the TIO and other Tiny mounting. Part # 4XF0V81632
The Nano also has its own mounting system outside of this as well including DIN rails.
For anyone in Australia interested, the exact configuration shown here costs $1009.85 direct from Lenovo.
Ridiculous isn't it
About the VDI cluster, just be aware that Windows 10 Pro EULA strictly forbids that kind of use.
“Restrictions:
Use the software as server software, for commercial hosting, make the software available for simultaneous use by multiple users over a network, install the software on a server and allow users to access it remotely, or install the software on a device for use only by remote users”.
In that particular case you are “installing the software for use only by remote users”. You need VDA or a Windows edition that allows it, and still pay the Microsoft tax.
Also, even if you add a monitor keyboard mouse and allow users to login locally, to make it compliant, it would still only allow the primary user to access it (no pooled access), and that user can only be changed each 90 days.
Not sure how all this would hold up in court, but that’s what’s written in their “legal” docs.
I live in a trailer and have very restricted desk space. I don't want to mount a pc on the back of my screen as I like to get at the USBs. I use the pc for web, email, office365 and a bunch of old DOS games. Power consumption is not an issue. I replaced one of the 1 litre models with this because it looks good/cute on my desktop and serves all my needs. I have upgraded to a 1tb nvme. It appears I am the target market. I really like it.
I think the M90n-1 would be good for astrophotography. You put it on a plate, power by the same battery pack powers the robotic GEM. You can run all the software from the M90, save the files on it from the cameras. You can remove the antenna, put a N pigtail and attach a big antenna to control from your home or car by RDC. All that with low power consumption, minimal weight and size.
I have Dell Wyse 5070 which it is extremely energy-efficient, has passive cooling and performance good enough for robots, astrophotography. I have not tested video encoding yet, maybe it may work as some kind of webcam server?
something you might want to try, you can power the M90n with the USBC port, which might make a difference with your power supply volume problem
This is a really interesting system to replace my aging C2D personal Nextcloud server. All I need is space for my 2TB SSD and 4GB of RAM which this has!
@AstroCat I'd like a bit more processing power than a pi gives me so I can add my family to the server as well :)
@AstroCat I doubt it'll be able to serve 10 users quick enough but I'm going to try it out since I have a couple of them lying around. They might prove me wrong.
I use these exclusively at work, the i5 8th gen 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD option. They are nice for the price we paid for them. Now the owner of the company chopped my budget and thinks that all computers need to perform at least this well and cost this little (I will not tell you how little we paid because we got a volume discount). When I wanted to get like 30 more a few weeks ago, Lenovo told me NO and said they discontinued the stock SKUs for these. We'd have to wait in line for custom orders and there was no guarantee they could fill the order (and the price was not great compared to Lenovo's newer offerings). We ended up getting in 1 M70q because we needed 1 PC rushed in and then we went to get a few more and couldn't get any. So we settled on the Dell 3080 MFF i5/256/8. I don't like the Dell because it lacks the USB-C (but then again, you don't need it). Unless you get these ultra cheap, go something else.
Windows 10 pro licences are not any sort of cost issue as they can legally be bought off Amazon or eBay for about £10. I have bought over 100 of them to upgrade from home to pro. They all activate and I have passed a Microsoft audit with them.
The KVM & Lights-out implementation would be interesting to mention if they are installed in a datacenter.
These nodes have Intel vPro so that is basically the OOB management solution, albeit on a shared NIC.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Thanks - I missed that fact
The power brick is not necessary if you use USB-C monitor
This would be an absolute beast as a Tensorflow server. You could fit two Google Coral modules. The wifi slot has one PCIe lane, the second M.2 slot has two. That means up to three Edge TPUs. And the gen 2 USB ports mean fast storage. Too expensive for me though. :-(
I'm planning on buying one of the m75n units (ryzen) for someone at work who doesn't need a laptop, but needs her computer in two locations. Perfect little computer for that, since it will work off a usb-c dock/monitor on that back port!
I am jealous! The M75n looks very cool.
Personally agree with all other stuff but not necessary with the power brick size
I run a 1L one as my home server and that power brick runs super hot when the system is under load. In fact, it was running so hot that the external HDD mounted near it is getting overheated on idle, and I had to put aluminium foils facing that brick to reflect some energy off. Considering the form factor, with the space for ventilation reserved around it the brick is taking up almost the same volume as the machine itself. LOL
Anyway, this is good content and I appreciate this a lot
Sub'd, well done content! Haven't stayed up to date with these newer ThinkCentre models. Only dealt with the older Tiny in One models in IT.
thank you i was looking for a low watt gaming computer in case of power outages, it was down to these two, now i know the nano is not good for my purpose
I love the videos in the TMM series on your channel!
The hardware looks super cool and I love learning all about it, but do you have a video explaining how the Tiny/Mini/Micro hardware is applied and which components of the nodes contribute to improving which aspects of running them together as a cluster/server?
I have just bought one for 150EUR or 180 dolars with 8GB RAM and 128GB nvme ssd. I want to use it just as a experiment device in my home network and I do not need better performance.
So glad you made this when you did Patrick. Your timing is impeccable. I was literally looking at one of these Nano's last night. Was gonna buy one to play with. But I don't think I'll bother.
Definitely interested in those MK1 racks though. Gonna go have a look now.
Do you think the MK1 racks are worth a video?
@@ServeTheHomeVideo I think they're pretty self explanatory. And they're rather expensive for you to buy just to make a video. But I do think it would be a relevant video for the TinyMiniMicro series. Perhaps just do a video on the Lenovo version you already have. It would be easy to compare the different versions by just scrolling through MK1's website a little. I wouldn't go out and buy other versions unless you have an actual use for them.
This is one of the oddest products I have ever seen, the Lenovo tinys are already so small that 99% of business users don't even realise the ThinkCentre they are using has a removable computer in the back of the screen, they just think the whole thing is an AIO. Making a smaller and thus weaker performing version just seems non-sensicle to me, like what purpose could this serve that a regular tiny couldn't do as well or better :S
Driving display boards! There are plenty of locations where all you really need is an Ethernet to HDMI converter. There's a booming business in "single board computers" that's driven by that requirement; unfortunately one has to "deal with" Linux to use them, so many shops will opt for a more expensive one just to get Windows.
Portability and easy storage. These things are great for temporary offices and/or business fairs. And in small office space the small space is a bonus, especially if you don't care much about performance.
I would like to have an example of when a tool less is really useful: I know it might need a little of care, but a screw should not be considered a challenge.
for the original purpose of these machines, its benefit is time efficiency. even something as simple as a few seconds is costly when scaled up to enterprise levels of hundreds. Under a single device, really you wouldnt even need a screw as the back plate would hold the drive down
If you have one system, granted it may not be a huge issue. Many of these units do not come with the additional screws for unpopulated slots. For example, the second M.2 slot does not have mounting hardware so one has to source their own for it. Lenovo typically includes the blue plastic tab parts with systems. If you do not have a M.2 screw, then it takes time to go to the hardware store or order one. Also, the M.2 screw also requires a different bit than the chassis screws in a lot of these systems, so doing a M.2 requires changing a bit/ driver from what is used to open/ close the chassis.
The other big item is consistency. The vast majority of screws work fine, but every so often a screw will fall off a magnetized tip or under a table or wherever. In those cases, it often adds not just seconds but minutes. If everything goes well, then it still saves a few seconds.
The more nodes you work with, the more these little features become apparent. That was part of Project TinyMiniMicro. There are a lot of 1-off reviews in this space. I wanted to get a nearly complete record of what each vendor is doing.
When you're working on one, tool less isn't really an issue. But when you have to manage assets for a large enterprise which has thousands of these bloody things and it comes time to do a rolling upgrade, trust me, it could save you a lot of time.
That being said; Back when I did have to manage vast amounts of workstations in an enterprise environment, they were NOT tool less and it wasn't really something I ever thought about needing. Upgrading internal components wasn't something that happened often. Generally when we upgraded workstations, we replaced the whole unit with the latest model.
work as a deskside support on let's say 2k of those. You will be sick and tired of those screws pretty quickly :D
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Yes the missing screw hardware is infuriating. Just because I decided not to pay your overinflated upgrade price they leave out proprietary brackets and screws. I bought a baggie of m.2 size screws and another of hp 2.5" shoulder screws on aliexpresss because of this. Also bought various lenovo plastic trays for systems like p50 workstation where the spare storage slots are unusable out of box unless populated from factory.
hmm. I made a wise choice by choosing the rpi4 as main drive for clusters.
I had a discussion about something like this on Reddit the other day. Someone had created a 7 node Pi4 cluster to do Kubernetes.
Don't get me wrong, I love Pi's, and I love clusters, but unless you are severely power constrained I just can't see the point. As Patrick has pretty succinctly put in this video - a single 2650v2 would wipe the floor with the whole cluster, and can be loaded up with hundreds of gigabytes of RAM. You could even get an entire system with dual 2650v2's and 128GB RAM for significantly less than the Pi cluster.
Yes, it would use more energy and be louder, but tower versions can be had that largely solve the latter point, and the difference in price can pay for power for a looooong time in most places.
I get it, it's fun, and there may be legitimate reasons you need separate physical machines for your purpose but... A kube cluster ain't it.
Buy a Dell T620 (or similar), load it up with VMs and go ham. Hell, Craft Computing made 3 E5 v2 uni processor nodes with mostly new parts for under $1k.
That holds true even scaling up. Those 3x E5-V3's consolidate better to newer systems especially if your power costs are non-zero
@@ServeTheHomeVideo oh yeah, definitely, but that last point was really that you can sort of have cake and eat it - you get multiple physical machines for redundancy and clustering, each of which would out compute the entire pi cluster, at a comparable cost.
The example of E5 v2s was really about this is an old processor that is still relatively powerful and cheap to source, and not *too* power hungry.
Someone else in the thread mentioned Epyc, and I told them they were talking about a whole different class of compute, and cost.
What the hell is this thing?I have an ASUS ROG, there is a square patch on my screen that won't go away, looked up think laptops and computers and came across this... what is this wizardy - is this a computer you just plug into a monitor? Amazing. I guess Covid really has me living under a rock.
I wish it had 2 Ethernet Ports. I would love to get it as a pfSense router or something like this. Or if it was 2.5GBe. A normal 1L tiny seems a bit overkill.
Now that is a fantastic little pc for light home and office use.
I’m just a little concerned about that tiny fan. Upon higher temperatures, wouldn’t this thing go ballistic and produce lots of noise?
In that case, the passively cooled version would be more desirable. Of course, the passive version doesn’t look particularly pretty, but then again, it hides easily.
Excellent review. This thing is in diminishing returns territory IMO. You pay more and sacrifice way too much just to gain like a half liter of space. There are probably some real, legitimate use cases for it - like maybe as a mounted controller PC for a piece of equipment or machinery. But other than that I can't imagine this being very useful.
It wouldn't be as disappointing if for the right price. I believe the fanless versions were going for $179 some time ago on sale, so maybe then it'll prove to be worth it if at that price.
We did the M90n-IoT fanless version but paid $199 for it. Here is the video for that one: th-cam.com/video/rIi6xh1cylw/w-d-xo.html
I just subscribed watch this channel blow up
Do a shot every time he says 'tiny mini micro'.
I think that if they would have crammed in a (mini) serial port it would have some use actually. Could be a nice small unit for controlling some machines or lab equipment.
Isn't that what the ThinkCentre M75n IoT Nano is for?
Get a Mac M1 Mini base model if you want a tiny, real computer.... regardless of the price, these small footprint/stick Windows PCs just suck !
4750GE is interesting yeahh, they even support 3200 MT/s ootb i think.
Call me a minority, and maybe I've missed this. But i've not see any referal to VMware vSphere compatability. I've shied away from some of the NUC platforms because they don't come with a Intel NIC(s) and USB ethernet isn't supported.
So all specs aside, it might not be exactly what you need if you are going the vSphere node/cluster. If you go the Proxmox route for example, then you can run on pretty much everything. Choices.
Isn't the blue tabs for the M.2 taller than just using a screw? That might be why they were unable to use them in such a small system
Are there custom power supplies for these tiny mini micro clusters? Would having a bigger ac to dc supply going to 6 nodes vs each having their own, have advantages?
Most of my attempts for doing this have not worked because usually vendors check to ensure the PSU is from the vendor not a third party.
Just FYI - if you buy one of these and format it for Linux and later want to go back to Windows you CANNOT without paying Lenovo some unGodly extortion sum basically full price for a recovery drive. You cannot reinstall windows even though it has a license. You all may know this but I didn’t and now I have a Linux only box
Are you sure? I have two thinkcentre tiny , i formattted the original OS and install windows 10 without any problem. The windows SN is burned in the BIOS, you can reinstall windows 10 any time you like.
@@mattf4089 Will not install and tech support told me it would be over $100 for a "rescue" usb drive to restore windows. I thought exactly what you describe would happen but it does not work.
Where do you buy that 5U rackmount shelf from?
He said MK1 Engineering I believe...but it's MK1 manufacturing dot com
The one time there wasn't a link in the description!
I should add that! Good idea.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo still loved the video Patrick!
Get going on the home Lab 🧫
does that second m2 slot take 2280? i see there is a screw for it but wondering if only a 2242 clears it
Such a small unit would be greater with a Ryzen 5800U and a USB4 port, and I would buy it immediately then, but as it is now, no chance.
Lenovo does have a Nano that is AMD powered, but probably have to wait for what you are looking for.
what is that rack case for the vertical think center ???
MK1 Manufacturing. I talk about it a bit in the TinyMiniMicro lessons learned. If there is interest, I might do a video on that and the 1U 2-node version I purchased.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Funnily enough I've been wondering if rackmount TMM things existed - having a couple nodes would be useful for having things like a dedicated system to RDP into for remote management. Knowing these exist is interesting :D
@@steveheist6426 The 5U 8-node in the video is going to be a RDP/VNC/SSH cluster that will sit in the data center racks that host our embedded lab.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Just a slight correction for anyone else googling it. It's actually MK1 Manufacturing. Kinda expensive! It's equivalent to the cost of one of these TinyMiniMicro machines!
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Yes yes it will be helpful to do a video about how to rack mount a tiny-mini-micro cluster, thanks for the reply.
@1:55 what is the computer on the bottom with the 4 mini displayport?
P320, P330, or P340 ThinkStation Tiny (With Quadro P620 or P1000) or an M920x ThinkCentre with a Radeon RX 560 could all be built with that configuration.
Nano makes no sense to me. Those 1l computersa re small enough to hide on the monitor stand anyway so no point of picking up even smaller device
I tried that and no go. Dell actually makes a monitor stand that is the PC if you think this is odd.
Next, smartphone form factor.
I've kinda wanted something like this as a mini web script PC, their not exactly cheap though (for my needs) and I've more or less made do with android boxes instead. More limited but they get the job done for the few things I can automate online.
Does the USB-C Port support Power Delivery? If it support I can use a 95W GaN USB-PD Adapter to instead the brick original power.
Is it good enough vs my 6th gen cpu and 1000 series 6gb GPU?
Will it handle 10 tabs from browser, and how fas i can copy lets say 6gb file to external hdd and some light video editing.
Is it good enough? Im thinking to sell my current pc to friend and use something like this or mac mini as main PC.
USD 399? The thing is EUR 789 here in Europe, more than twice as expensive, with only a 8/256 configuration. No way!
There is even an i3-8145U, UHD graphics, 8GB, 128GB SSD model on the official Lenovo eBay store for $299 with Windows 10 Pro and no coupon required. Cheaper to import probably.
Have you by chance found a source for those Lenovo toolless Nvme screw adapters
Didn't get my RDI of alphabet soup today
No subtitles?...no specs on the screen..
Nano iot is no longer available.
$215 on Lenovo's official ebay shop with a 1-year warranty.
With the price being $ 170 I would buy
4 computers instead of all the computers in the house I only need for multimedia
8GB & 4k tnx
don't tell me what you want to do, just do it
What's the Dell model you mention around 5:45?
Ah, perhaps that was less clear. If you look at the Dell 7070 Ultra or 7090 Ultra or something like that. 1L in Dell is "Micro", the slim monitor form factor is "Ultra"
It would be useful if when quoting the price in USD, you quoted retail pricing not the deeply discounted price you paid with a sale and a coupon.
This was just direct from Lenovo without a coupon actually so it was retail price. Not many people are paying list price on these. Since Project TMM was really started for the used units, it would be unfair to compare used ebay pricing with full list pricing. Street pricing is almost always quite a bit lower.
I do understand that in other countries, this may vary, but there is no way to do 100+ countries worth of pricing information and make it relevant.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo @ServeTheHome At 11:03 you said $399 was coupon pricing during a sale and it "probably would be different by the time this video is published".
So I'm now confused, because it appears to me that you're now saying it is the US retail pricing? I can't access the US pricing, I get redirected but knowing it is a good bar to measure against.
I disagree on comparing against used TMM units, I think comparing CoC or performance for the price between new and used units is extremely valuable to any consumer.
New products are always going to compete not just with other new products but also used products. In some cases used products are more expensive than new ones. Certainly the M90n is significantly cheaper at full retail locally to me than some of the TMM platforms cost used. Like, $500 cheaper. That is obviously going to have an impact on purchasing decision.
In the same line of thought, there are TMM that cost the same or less used than this does new but has twice the performance capacity, that's also going to impact purchasing decision. You seem to understand that in the video.
Obviously you don't have to search any other market. I'm certainly not asking you too. Leave that to community members in the comments to advise localised pricing and cherish those people who care enough about your videos to go out and find those localised prices to report back to the community.
Doing your videos all in USD is still helpful to use regardless of where in the world we are because it gives some kind of a broad idea of where the market should fall.
It's been a problem on TH-cam for many years now that people say "I got this one on sale" or "with a coupon I got it for this price" ... That isn't helpful because those deals don't sick around or could be regional thus destroying the ability for a viewer to legitimately compare pricing or understand where value exists.
While I take your point about sales in your region being regular, they aren't as regular everywhere nor are the amount saved on a sale consistent between sales.
It would be great if when you get a new product with a coupon or on sale, that at very least the retail pricing without the sale or coupon is included. I can't understate how extremely valuable that information is when trying to make a purchase decision.
Ha so you caught that. I remembered paying $399 and using a coupon. I purchased from Lenovo's Official ebay store (they have a $299 model on special with a Core i3 right now). I used an eBay bucks coupon, but it was $399 before that coupon. I remembered the $399 price and using a coupon, but I messed up that the $399 price was without the eBay coupon.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Ok cool, that is very helpful.
Love your videos bro
Thanks. I appreciate the feedback. Just trying to do the best I can and get better over time.
Wow a 4 quart cpu
Lenovo 💪👍😍👍😍👍😍👍😍🤗💥🔥🔥🔥🔥
this video is exactly 16 minutes and 32 seconds too long
m1 mac mini vs this lenovo shit?
I have three M1 Mac Minis. If you do not need/ want MacOS then these are better. They are also much smaller and have vPro and such for OOB management. I love the M1's but they are not a direct competitor