18:19 the striker pawl might be returning too fast and giving the wheel unnecessary momentum so it skips a step. Maybe too much return spring force? Or perhaps the latching pawl does not press hard enough on the wheel to stop it at the correct spot? Do the Stampede and Rawhide electrically/mechanically differ by anything else than the amount of score displays, and the switch that routes pulses to the according score display?
Usually the two player and four player games have a few differences, but i'm not sure what they are on the Chicago Coin/Stern models... on the Bally models, the two player games lose the coin stepper unit and I think the player unit, since they just have to keep track of two players they don't need a lot of that stuff so i'll bet the Chicago Coin design is similar...
On the vibrating coil, sometimes a piece of rubber underneath it might help. Or heck, even a small amount of silicone glue underneath (which can be pried off later if the coil needs to be changed). Just a thought. It was nice to see you get it closer to fully operational. I was glad to see that the coil could be salvaged.
JOE CLASSIC< what fixed that 0-99 stepper unit issue that would advance 2 steps only when the roll over switch was turned on but manually it the stepper unit would advance 1 step?
Actually, he said he hadn't fixed that. It did seem to work a tad better as it was being used more. The old observational problem when it comes to fixing intermittent issues. Things that sometimes work will work when being observed a lot of times, but when you put it all back together... Some here have given things to try such as deburring/cleaning the contacts if necessary, maybe adding a capacitor if it is DC, and maybe moving the solenoid slightly if possible and if slack is an issue.
@@PlumGurly If the solenoid is partially shorted the DC current will short or sink to ground faster since the coil has less resistance to ground which I think will make the stepper unit jump 2 steps. To prove this theory you can connect 9Vdc batteries in series by connecting the + terminal to the Next following 9vdc battery - terminal to get +18vdc. Just use jumper wires and connect the batteries to the pinball games ground and connect the batteries + terminal to the stepper units solenoid terminal to "INJECT" the voltage to see if the solenoid is advancing 2 steps. You can also just take a Jumper wire and find the correct voltage by tapping it off the power supply or somewhere in the circuit and "INJECT" it direct to the solenoid to see if the solenoid is advancing 2 steps.
@@PlumGurly I was thinking maybe the coil has too much umph… he can manually switch it and it does one step at a time if he does it more softly, but if he lets it go with more force then it does the skipping two positions thing.
if it's electrical, maybe the contact is dirty or has a bump on it, so the blades flap apart when it's activated so it gets a double step. I noticed some coils have 10uf/50V caps across them. a capacitor could hold the coil in long enough to prevent it double stepping. I suspect they had some problems with that and used those caps to fix it. mechanically, the pull in of the solenoid doesn't step the switch, it's when the coil releases, so I don't think it'd be that but anything is possible
It’s like you’ve given us a homework assignment. …. This problem of jumping 2 steps is very interesting. … My Ace High will sometimes wind up on 100,000 when you press the start/reset button. It also never does it when I manually work the big stepper, but does do it sometimes when the game starts up. …. just like on this game, I cannot work out why it does this. … so, I’m real keen to see what this problem is, and how to fix it. …. Come on Ronnie, I know you can work this out. can’t wait to see how this unfolds.
I'd try cleaning/deburring the contacts some more. If that doesn't do it, see if the correct coil is used, check the voltage going into the coil, or add a capacitor to slow it down (at least if it is DC).
Howdy Ron. I've been watching your videos for a few months and have done my part saving a '71 "Home Run". Just curious, in the end, after everything has been gone through, tested and proofed, is it normal to expect rare but occasional playfield miscounts. This pertains to roll over scoring points and occasionally failing to advance "runners" (that sort of thing, odd flukes). I can't fix what isn't broken when I test everything again. Maybe it's just an old machine thing that I need to accept? Thoughts appreciated, love the content, and hope you are feeling better at this point in time.
Beavis, since you're a regular viewer you'll be pleased to know I just shot a whole series of repairing.... a...... 1971 Home run. Ran into the same exact issue. Yes it's kind of normal from time to time for it not to perfectly score but you can get it working pretty well where it only does it ever so often. We go through the whole A/B/C/Ax/Bx/Cx and Run unit setup, what an amazing little piece of work all that is. We had issues on ours where the run unit rivets were worn, and you know that run unit moves so fast, you need to make sure it's only advancing one step each time it pulls in (which is the exact problem we were having on THIS video too btw).... what I would try to do if you feel like tinkering with it, is loosen the wiper plate on the run unit and turn it ever so slightly so that the timing changes, for instance if your wipers are landing straight in the middle of the rivets at position one (which is the home position) maybe move it back slightly so they're resting on the front of the rivet, or forward where they're on the back of the rivet. I don't mean move it an entire position, just where it lands on the rivet and see if that gets it working more reliably. As you probably figured out (and it took us awhile to figure out) the "1" position of the run unit resets third base, and checks to see if anybody ran home. The 2 position resets second base, and checks to see if anybody ran to third. The 3 position resets first base, and checks to see if anybody ran to second, and the 4 position checks to see if anybody needs to be on first. Then it moves onto 'home' again, position 0. If the wiper lands on the rivet too soon or too late it may mess some of that up.
@@LyonsArcade , thank you so much for the reply. Nice to talk to somebody who knows the specific game. I'll look into the run unit. When I cleaned and replaced a coil there I did in fact center the wiper blades so that's something I can tinker with. This machine also has some worn rivets. For the most part the machine performs at 98%-99% and it's a joy to play and admire. Thanks for the inspiration to pick up a machine and bring back to life. It's going to be fun watching your series on the machine and compare notes.
the bar is going down too far, the extra slack should be able to be removed by lowering the throw distance of the solenoid? just what i was screaming at you during the video, im surprised you didnt hear me :P
Regarding the alternator, my guess is (because it only does it when moved 'violently'), that it either grabs 2 teeth, or it moves the disc so fast that it moves another extra spot because of inertia of the disc. Maybe film it in slomo and take a look?
Wow, that machine is trying to kick your butt up one side and down the other, with problems in just about every subsystem! Obviously it doesn't know who it's up against! I work on old radios, and I've had some do that to me, with everything from the power supply to the speaker taking a jab at me. It's really satisfying when you win, though, and the machine has to continue working instead of turning into rust, which is what it really wants to do!
So did stern make Pinball machines before they bought out Chicago coin then made rawhide? But the only early Stern game that I remember is meteor but that's solid state. As well as stars. I'm just not remember it correctly because it was around 1980 was when I started visiting my local arcade when I was about 10. And then my mom started getting mad at me because I was going there all the time. And I was too young to go there. So yeah maybe I'm not remember it correctly.
@@LyonsArcade my neighbor bought a general lee car with 01 and confederate flag on roof..looks cool cept for one thing..no dang Dixie horn!!! I asked him why didn't he have it, he replied..it's broke haha😆
Once again, enjoying the power of deduction and the common sense approach. Thanks Ronnie!
Your videos are fantastic! Thanks for the education!
Great vid with great insights into the logics of repairs. And Thankyou so much for tackling a stern EM similar to my disco!
No problem Daniel!
Great video Ronnie, Good hint on finding information on your pinball machine. I hope you are feeling better very soon. See you on the next video
Got To Love EM Pinball!
18:19 the striker pawl might be returning too fast and giving the wheel unnecessary momentum so it skips a step. Maybe too much return spring force? Or perhaps the latching pawl does not press hard enough on the wheel to stop it at the correct spot?
Do the Stampede and Rawhide electrically/mechanically differ by anything else than the amount of score displays, and the switch that routes pulses to the according score display?
Usually the two player and four player games have a few differences, but i'm not sure what they are on the Chicago Coin/Stern models... on the Bally models, the two player games lose the coin stepper unit and I think the player unit, since they just have to keep track of two players they don't need a lot of that stuff so i'll bet the Chicago Coin design is similar...
I hope you feel better soon.
Thank you Patrick, I already feel a lot better but I filmed a bunch of videos while I was sick :)
havent watched your vids for a while , really enjoyed.
Good Morning Ron.
Good morning Dano!
On the vibrating coil, sometimes a piece of rubber underneath it might help. Or heck, even a small amount of silicone glue underneath (which can be pried off later if the coil needs to be changed). Just a thought.
It was nice to see you get it closer to fully operational. I was glad to see that the coil could be salvaged.
How did jou solve the noisy index relais, pushing it only helps temporarily. Or do you have to be related to the Fonz for this to work?
Does the last zero in the numbers ever move or the second to the last.
That would be ones and tens
JOE CLASSIC< what fixed that 0-99 stepper unit issue that would advance 2 steps only when the roll over switch was turned on but manually it the stepper unit would advance 1 step?
Actually, he said he hadn't fixed that. It did seem to work a tad better as it was being used more. The old observational problem when it comes to fixing intermittent issues. Things that sometimes work will work when being observed a lot of times, but when you put it all back together...
Some here have given things to try such as deburring/cleaning the contacts if necessary, maybe adding a capacitor if it is DC, and maybe moving the solenoid slightly if possible and if slack is an issue.
@@PlumGurly If the solenoid is partially shorted the DC current will short or sink to ground faster since the coil has less resistance to ground which I think will make the stepper unit jump 2 steps. To prove this theory you can connect 9Vdc batteries in series by connecting the + terminal to the Next following 9vdc battery - terminal to get +18vdc. Just use jumper wires and connect the batteries to the pinball games ground and connect the batteries + terminal to the stepper units solenoid terminal to "INJECT" the voltage to see if the solenoid is advancing 2 steps. You can also just take a Jumper wire and find the correct voltage by tapping it off the power supply or somewhere in the circuit and "INJECT" it direct to the solenoid to see if the solenoid is advancing 2 steps.
Did you use that expensive WD 40 3 in one oil to lube up those spots?
haha yes I did
16:05 Maybe an incorrect coil in there?
It could be. Or it could be dirty contacts so that it bounces electrically, or it could just need a capacitor, at least if the coil is getting DC.
@@PlumGurly I was thinking maybe the coil has too much umph… he can manually switch it and it does one step at a time if he does it more softly, but if he lets it go with more force then it does the skipping two positions thing.
Contact Bounce could you create a Flip-Flop using relays to make it move one contact at a time.
if it's electrical, maybe the contact is dirty or has a bump on it, so the blades flap apart when it's activated so it gets a double step. I noticed some coils have 10uf/50V caps across them. a capacitor could hold the coil in long enough to prevent it double stepping. I suspect they had some problems with that and used those caps to fix it. mechanically, the pull in of the solenoid doesn't step the switch, it's when the coil releases, so I don't think it'd be that but anything is possible
That is a thought. It could be bouncing.
It’s like you’ve given us a homework assignment. …. This problem of jumping 2 steps is very interesting. … My Ace High will sometimes wind up on 100,000 when you press the start/reset button. It also never does it when I manually work the big stepper, but does do it sometimes when the game starts up. …. just like on this game, I cannot work out why it does this. … so, I’m real keen to see what this problem is, and how to fix it. …. Come on Ronnie, I know you can work this out. can’t wait to see how this unfolds.
I'd try cleaning/deburring the contacts some more. If that doesn't do it, see if the correct coil is used, check the voltage going into the coil, or add a capacitor to slow it down (at least if it is DC).
Howdy Ron. I've been watching your videos for a few months and have done my part saving a '71 "Home Run". Just curious, in the end, after everything has been gone through, tested and proofed, is it normal to expect rare but occasional playfield miscounts. This pertains to roll over scoring points and occasionally failing to advance "runners" (that sort of thing, odd flukes). I can't fix what isn't broken when I test everything again. Maybe it's just an old machine thing that I need to accept? Thoughts appreciated, love the content, and hope you are feeling better at this point in time.
Beavis, since you're a regular viewer you'll be pleased to know I just shot a whole series of repairing.... a...... 1971 Home run. Ran into the same exact issue. Yes it's kind of normal from time to time for it not to perfectly score but you can get it working pretty well where it only does it ever so often. We go through the whole A/B/C/Ax/Bx/Cx and Run unit setup, what an amazing little piece of work all that is.
We had issues on ours where the run unit rivets were worn, and you know that run unit moves so fast, you need to make sure it's only advancing one step each time it pulls in (which is the exact problem we were having on THIS video too btw).... what I would try to do if you feel like tinkering with it, is loosen the wiper plate on the run unit and turn it ever so slightly so that the timing changes, for instance if your wipers are landing straight in the middle of the rivets at position one (which is the home position) maybe move it back slightly so they're resting on the front of the rivet, or forward where they're on the back of the rivet. I don't mean move it an entire position, just where it lands on the rivet and see if that gets it working more reliably.
As you probably figured out (and it took us awhile to figure out) the "1" position of the run unit resets third base, and checks to see if anybody ran home. The 2 position resets second base, and checks to see if anybody ran to third. The 3 position resets first base, and checks to see if anybody ran to second, and the 4 position checks to see if anybody needs to be on first. Then it moves onto 'home' again, position 0.
If the wiper lands on the rivet too soon or too late it may mess some of that up.
@@LyonsArcade , thank you so much for the reply. Nice to talk to somebody who knows the specific game. I'll look into the run unit. When I cleaned and replaced a coil there I did in fact center the wiper blades so that's something I can tinker with. This machine also has some worn rivets. For the most part the machine performs at 98%-99% and it's a joy to play and admire. Thanks for the inspiration to pick up a machine and bring back to life. It's going to be fun watching your series on the machine and compare notes.
Huh huh..you said part..uh huh huh..uh huh huh😆🤣
Oh yeah yeah part heh heh heh boiyoiyoiyoing!
@@samuelcolvin4994 hm-hm-hm-,...heh-heh. "Part". hm-hm-hm
Maybe try taking a slow-motion video of that mechanism in action so you can see what’s going on. I’m guessing it’s sloppy or needs adjustment.
I don't believe it has the same adjustments the Gottlieb ones do unfortunately...
i guess the lever jumps 2 notches when pulled fast and hard since its like moving 1,5 notches when u move it by hand already
@@crackone2three -- Or it could be getting pulled twice rather quickly due to switch bouncing. If it is DC, a capacitor might help.
@@PlumGurly wasnt there already a cap ? dont remember now but saw a cap on the schematics
the bar is going down too far, the extra slack should be able to be removed by lowering the throw distance of the solenoid? just what i was screaming at you during the video, im surprised you didnt hear me :P
I've got the two player version of this game Stampede
Must be very similar to my disco machine. Being another 2 player game made 5 months later.. how have you gone with your score reels?
Regarding the alternator, my guess is (because it only does it when moved 'violently'), that it either grabs 2 teeth, or it moves the disc so fast that it moves another extra spot because of inertia of the disc. Maybe film it in slomo and take a look?
I tend to agree with those saying the contacts could be dirty or rough, or that this needs a capacitor.
Wow, that machine is trying to kick your butt up one side and down the other, with problems in just about every subsystem! Obviously it doesn't know who it's up against! I work on old radios, and I've had some do that to me, with everything from the power supply to the speaker taking a jab at me. It's really satisfying when you win, though, and the machine has to continue working instead of turning into rust, which is what it really wants to do!
Don't get sick people 🤧..keep safe out there ..when I went in to get tested for omicron I waited 3 hours😴
So did stern make Pinball machines before they bought out Chicago coin then made rawhide?
But the only early Stern game that I remember is meteor but that's solid state. As well as stars.
I'm just not remember it correctly because it was around 1980 was when I started visiting my local arcade when I was about 10.
And then my mom started getting mad at me because I was going there all the time.
And I was too young to go there.
So yeah maybe I'm not remember it correctly.
like number tony seven. 11 Mar. 22
Thank you Bugs
@@LyonsArcade my neighbor bought a general lee car with 01 and confederate flag on roof..looks cool cept for one thing..no dang Dixie horn!!! I asked him why didn't he have it, he replied..it's broke haha😆
I mean gilbert gottlieb has the best rawhide vidja.. you know that guy?
Itt would be amazing if they had a talking pinball machine that used Gilbert Gottfrieds voice
@@samuelcolvin4994 idea noted! =)
Who cares about your voice just as long as you can fix the machines
I care about it haha Thanks for watching Clark!
@@LyonsArcade Better a croaky cold voice than no video. Thanks for the effort that goes into each and everyone of these,
Yodelayheehoo
Tuesday's gone people..with the wind 🎶🎸