@@wageragefishingteam7720 I went with the Weize battery as I tend to use/charge my batteries year round and it has the battery management system for handling cold charge shutoff. It also has a 10 year warranty is light, and priced at the low end. Perfect fit to me so far. I have only had them in for less than 6 months, but so far, so good!! Sidenote:...I purchased/installed a NOCO 2-Bank 10-Amp OnBoard Battery Charger for my 2 new Weize batteries
In general, the TI units are faster in response to inputs. This is seen when quickly switching between sonar, downscan, chart, and split screens th-cam.com/users/postUgkxeAxH15LxhjGlg5-CRYqjTGTEH0tbY4vk recommend The Hook units will show some lag on button pushes and screen switching. The big ticket item though is maps. If you install a mapping card such as Navionics or the free C-Map Genesis which has a lot of map detail, then moving around the map with the cursor or when running down the lake can lag significantly on the Hook units, but is seamless with the TI units.
Most of the super cheap Chinese mppt controllers have more electronic protections in the documentation, than the Morningstar or victron controllers. Does this make them better?? Absolutely not. Victron will not mention that it has an AC voltage stabilizer input to the hybrid invert, as it is discounted. Victron does not mention dozens of protections of its chargers. They can only be found on specific sections of the website reserved for very experienced people. When a manual lists dozens of features, it's a bad sign. Those who boast too much are usually worth little @@goodmanfishing
Started with Dakota lithium. Had a failure at around a year. Had issues with a warranty claim. Dakota wanted me to go back to the dealer, but dealer had quit selling because of warranty issues. This was a small battery for fishing electronics. For my trolling motor, I went with Battle Born. Expensive but no issues going on 2 years. After the sticker shock with Battle Born, I started looking for something more economical. Based on the Will Prose reviews, I chose Weize. Only 6 months in, but no issues.
Monster marines customer service is second to none they were fast to answer any questions I had. I ordered my battery’s on the phone with them and they showed up on my door step the next day!! I’ve put them to the test and they are amazing I can fish for days without charging them !
i have a Wieze and used the Heck out of it with no issues. Cold temp also worked as i am in Central NY and temps dip bellow 32 deg F. As these batteries do not omit gases when charged...I put a shop light in compartment to keep temp up. As it didn't charge one night do to cold temp cut off. But it still had plenty of power for next day as you can use 100% of a Lithium compared to a Lead Acid.
Thanks for this video... I'm totally ignorant on batteries and I was researching everything to find a good & affordable lithium battery for my trolling moter - and understand what everything meant that I was reading about. With some frustration, I was going to order the Eco battery, but after watching your video I also went with the Weize. I do wish you would have explained what battery cycles is talking about... I've seen ads talking about 2000, 3000... I think I've seen it up to 15,000 cycles, and have no clue what it means. The Weize battery said it had 2000-8000 cycles depending on whether you're running wide open or at 50%, compared to a lead battery having 500... it sounds great, I just don't know what it means. But other than still not quite understanding battery cycles, I learned a lot from your video.
After doing some research I decided on the monster marine. I called and talk to them and they were very helpful in choosing what I needed. I also ordered their new charging system which will charge different volt batteries and charge with the engine and shore power, it also allows you to jump start your cranking battery off your trolling battery even if their different voltage. They also say on their website that their batteries have a cold weather shutoff.
It sounds like they have to setup well! I checked again and was unable to find low temp cutoff for charging, their site mentions high cutoff specifically. www.monstermarinelithium.com/faq "BMS stands for Battery Management System. The BMS protects the cells from getting damaged from common over or under voltage, over current, extreme high temperature, external short circuiting. This system will shut off the battery to protect the cells from unsafe operating conditions. All MML batteries have the most Advanced BMS built into the battery to insure protection."
@@goodmanfishing It might have been the charger that said it stopped charging at low temperatures. It was $999 for the charger but I think in the long run it will be worth it. I don't have to worry about getting too cold anyway because I live in south FL.
UPDATES! *IONIC* This one is fun. While reviewing IONIC's website it appears Low Temperature Cutoff is now a listed feature on the main battery page. However, the site shows it will still charge below freezing, down to 24°F, which is interesting. Typical battery chargers will *not* adjust the charge rate (0.1C or Less) low enough to be safe below 32°F and that would cause lithium plating. AND when you go to the battery manual, the table on page 18 does not show low temperature protection temperatures listed. So does it really have it? *Product Link:* lithiumhub.com/product/12-volt-100ah-lithium-deep-cycle-battery/ - "Built in cold weather protection - Does not take a charge if temperatures are below -4C or 24F in our case. Some variations with part tolerances." *Manual Link:* lithiumhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/ownersmanual.lowrez.updated.pdf *Powerhouse Lithium* Powerhouse provided me with confirmation that they do have Low Temperature Cutout on their batteries, great news! *Warranties* Warranties seem to have caused some confusion. I mention in the video that many of these higher-year warranties are *pro-rated* . Some of them are *heavily* pro-rated and you will need to look through the warranty guidelines for a manufacturer to determine what that means to you.
@@steveking8548 Thanks for the comment Steve. I tried to align the Warranty the best I could with what information I could find. For Ionic specifically, they have the following terms, which is a free replacement up to 5 years. After that it is pro-rated. lithiumhub.com/warranty-information/ - First 30 days - Refund of original purchase price with return of battery - 30 days to 5 Years (60 months) - LithiumHub will repair battery free of charge. If repair is not possible battery replacement will be provided. - 5 years to 8 years (61 months to 96 months) - LithiumHub will repair or replace battery with a service charge of $150 per battery. - 8 years to 11 years (97 months to 132 months) - Replacement discount offer of 30% on a similar product valid for 30 days from notification.
Great info, appreciate you compiling and laying everything out. I was about to buy an Eco battery for my new kayak, but just ordered a 36ah Weize instead.
I'm not really sure how important a low temp cut off is anyways. How often are you taking a bass boat out when the temperature is below freezing? Temperature of the place you store the boat? Could you pop a propane heater in there in the rare chance you are going to use it in freezing weather?
Where I live in northwestern ontario, spring and fall nighttime temperatures can fall well below zero. If you leave your rig in the water overnight you sometimes have to chip away the ice around the boat in the morning. So for me, it’s definitely a requirement if I want to charge my batteries overnight. But for someone who lives in more temperate climate, I wouldn’t worry about it.
Thanks for compiling some data, but I want to see INSIDE of the batteries to know what we're buying. Quality of cells and components, quality of solder joints/connections, vibration and moisture mitigation, etc. I think we can all read the labels.
Great suggestion! I linked a couple of teardown videos that go into great detail there. I wish I had the resources to buy all of these to do such a review, that's about $8,000 worth of batteries 😶
Disclaimer: I am not promoting Dakota Lithium just sharing my experience. With that said, I use a 12v 10ah Dakota Lithium for my ice fishing Sonar (Helix 5) and it has been very good. I can run it in the cold Canadian winter (-20c) and after 4 or 5 hours the sonar is still reading full battery... I dunno. I recharge it every other time I go out not because it needs it but because I am usually recharging my ION ice auger 40v 4ah anyway. But it is worth mentioning I NEVER charge them while they are cold and always bring them into the basement and give them a few hours minimum before putting the charger on them. I am learning from these videos though and considering a cheaper option moving forward because it is beginning to look like some of these lower priced batteries could be good enough.
I have a comment up above on this in particular, I've found conflicting information between their website and their battery manual. While reviewing IONIC's website it appears Low Temperature Cutoff is now a listed feature on the main battery page. However, the site shows it will still charge below freezing, down to 24°F, which is interesting. Typical battery chargers will not adjust the charge rate (0.1C or Less) low enough to be safe below 32°F which would cause lithium plating. Page 18 shows *no* low temperature cut-off temperatures lithiumhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/ownersmanual.lowrez.updated.pdf
Dakota lithium mentions their low temp protection on their website under "how to charge", then scroll down to "what is the BMS". They also mention the batteries can't be charged if they're below 32 degrees several times further down. On a seperate note, I've used Norske batteries all winter for years without trouble. I had no idea I shouldn't be charging my ice fishing batteries in my unheated, uninsulated garage in Central WI. They go to 100% every time. I guess I'll start bringing them in the house for charging!
Hi Tim, Thanks for the comment! I looked at the manual linked below and was not able to confirm "low" temperature protection. Maybe I am looking in the wrong spot? Do you have a link? The linked manual states: • Page 4 states "the BMS has....temperature protection" - Not specifically low temperature. • Page 5 states "Avoid charging the battery when it is freezing...." • Page 12 states "Charging lithium iron phosphate batteries below 32°F not only makes your batteries unsafe, but it also will drastically and permanently reduce the capacity." • It will also void the warranty if you charge below 32°F. dakotalithium.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Dakota-Lithium-Batteries-User-Manual.pdf My interpretation is that I cannot find where they directly state the 100Ah battery has low temperature cutoff. Charging it below 32°F would _not_ be possible with a BMS that supported low temperature cutoff and therefore it doesn't need to be avoided, wouldn't be unsafe or possible to void the warranty that way. I'd love to hear from Dakota on this one!
I just did a video on the latest batteries under $300 that is worth a watch. I do have a couple of charging videos, does depend on what type of charger you are after.
Now that was a good informative video. I like some others don't know much about this type of battery. I am from old school using the old heavy type battery. I looked at a new Ranger 520R. I had bass tracker type battery. Lithium. You said not to go with this battery. It is one of the cheap ones. Why are they doing that on a $100,000 bass boat?
It isn't time yet, but I'll be going with Ionic due to their Bluetooth app. I monitor my Mercury outboard with their app, and knowing both motor and battery will be very comforting. I also note that prices have fallen dramatically over the past year: a 100Ah Ionic used to be $1100.
I went Ionic as well for the Bluetooth app. I am in FL so low temps are not a concern but knowing the charge and discharge rate as well as amount of juice remaining are critical things you can watch in real time with your phone. For example I learned my 24v 80lb trolling motor pulls 45 amps and my 90HP Yamaha charges at 7 to 8 amps. The weight savings is almost laughable, they don't even feel like batteries, more like a cooler with a six-pack in it. My flats boat is now 137lbs lighter. This weekend I'll do more extensive testing, so far only used them for about an hour to ensure all system were good. I went with two 100ah for my 16 footer used inshore saltwater.
Follow up - fished 6 hours, it was pretty windy but tide didn’t seem too bad, trolling motor (Fortex 80) on two 100ah Ionic batteries (24v) down to 65% (-35%). So not bad, could have fished two days back to back without charging and been OK.
@@goodmanfishing Looking forward to that video as I see from a google search just now that there are a number of other manufacturers besides Ionic that have the Bluetooth function. Subscribed.
Just got an ionic. The Bluetooth is really very useful. It shows the battery temperature. I didn’t realize how much I would like that app. I moved it from my house to my cold garage. It takes many hours for the temp to substantially drop FWIW.
The Bluetooth is awesome. I can be sitting on my couch and see if I'm fully charged without going to the boat and physically looking. Also shows how many cycles you've used
I ordered a Weize 20a charger from Amazon but it does not appear to be available anymore. For 100Ah you should charge it at 0.2C, or 20amps, ideally. This charger is similar amzn.to/3LRvHtT
Thanks for the great info. As I don't know much about batteries- do I need to have a shut of switch between the solar panels on Van roof to batteries (inside) if temp is below 30F? So the Battle born battery doesn't get damaged during charging in low temp.
It will take extended periods below freezing to get the cell temperature to freezing. If it's possible to happen in your application, a switch is a good idea
(Charging systems) Is an outboards charging system ok for lithium batteries. I installed one ,50hp Yamaha (The battery was charged,) The volt meter, (running)) showed 14.7 volts ?
Certainly looks like an interesting solution. I have not seen one torn down, I suspect they went to a prismatic cell versus a cylindrical, which is a more dense package. Should make for a great battery for a kayak or a tight battery compartment.
Hi Tina, yes you should have a lithium charger for a couple of reasons. A lead acid charger won't get a lithium to 100%, it will get it in the 80-90% but that is leaving some energy on the table. Lithiums will also "turn off" if you misuse it, accidentally short it. A lithium charger will give it a quick 12v hit to turn it back on/reset the BMS.
Another that watches Wills reviews and teardown on the budget lipo's and would rather buy 2 100ah for the same or less money than one of the big brands for trolling motor/electronics use on a small boat. Another thing is I do not go fishing when the weather is really cold and again being in a small boat just using battery boxes with easily removable batteries bring my batteries inside during the winter anyway so not worried about the low temp charge cutoff. Common sense and buying the bang for the buck options here is the smartest move in my opinion.
Good Video, the only issue is that these 100 amp hours you are comparing are older technology, for example Dakota now has a DL+12v135ah that is half the size of that older 100ah with 35% more power than the old 100ah. Bigger companies have moved away from cyclendrical cells to prismatic getting more energy density. So they have not been upgrading the older batteries just creating new, better ones.
Looking through the Warranties of several of the brands and Dakota for sure along with others is a bit of smoke and mirrors. They sell you a new one at a discount at the 5-6 year mark. Powerhouse seems to be the only true 10 year fix or replace and discounted up to 15 years..... I think Im going to pull the trigger on the PowerHouse.
@@goodmanfishing I was interested in MillerTech because of their faith based business but there warranty is 10years with 6 years replacement. From 6-10 they will fix the battery if they can but if they cant they sell you a new battery at %50 discount. I still think I’m going to pull the trigger on Powerhouse and probably today since they have %15 off their entire site until 11-24-23.
Can I use a 12volt 100ah lithium battery to use in my boat as both power for all my electronics AND cranking? My concern is that it wont have enough cranking power. My motor calls from 515-650 cranking amps
You need a lithium "cranking" or starting battery, the batteries discussed here are all deep cycle. Intended for relatively low loads, trolling vs cranking. As mentioned they are 1C discharge rates, you can get a little more than 100A out of one of them for a very brief period. Some companies make dual-purpose batteries, but you would not want to use one of these as a cranking battery.
Could you look into AOLithium batteries? My friend uses them & they fall in the $400 range with Bluetooth. But reading their "Simple" warranty is quite confusing... doesn't seem like their 8year prorated warranty, warranties anything really. Thanks for this video. Sincerely, Matthew
@goodman_fishing Sounds good... I ended up getting the EPOCH (by RoyPow) 36v 100ah trolling motor battery for my future trolling motor, can't wait. Less wiring, built in heater, Bluetooth, etcetera. Thanks again for the video
The guy you showed recently tested a Watt Cycle battery. He said he was amazed and it is his new favorite budget battery. It had like 105 amp hours. It had cold and hot cut off. It was only $155. Those people selling those batters for over $400 is a complete RIP off.
looking for a lithium battery for a minn kota powerdrive 55lb 54" for my 12' Flycraft? The 12V 54AH Dakota is $400? Worth it or go with a cheaper 12V 50AH competitor? Do I need 100AH? Thank you
@@brooktroutangler5917 I have a specific video covering recent 50-60Ah options. I personally wouldn't spend the extra money on a Dakota. There are a lot of options worth considering in that video 👍
What’s a good Lithium Charger to use with a 50a battery. Looking at buying a Weise 50a to run my boat electronics only. 2 Hummingbird Helix units, MegaLive and Target lock. Nothing else would be ran off this battery. Thinking 50a would be plenty. What are your thought on that? And a charger. The ones you’ve listed above in your comments are both discontinued or unavailable.
I'll find some new links, thanks for letting me know! For size, that sounds like it might be close for a full day on a 50Ah, I'm not sure of the current draw on the target lock. I have this video below that runs through the math for run time. As far as a charger, the rule of thumb is to charge at 0.2C for a LFP battery. So, 50Ah x 0.2 = 10a. That's ideal for that size battery. I'd take a look at NOCO amzn.to/3miANFc The BEST Battery Size For Fish Finders | Livescope | Garmin | Humminbird | Lowrance th-cam.com/video/jlNd5xKaC3A/w-d-xo.html
@@goodmanfishing after looking at your graph it appears a 100a battery would be better for my intended purpose. I’m considering the Weise 100a Lithium Lipo4. What charger do you recommend for this battery. And your thoughts on the Weise Lithium. It’s an economical batter for sure. Also have you ever tried any external Bluetooth monitoring system? I think that would be nice.
I have the Weize 100Ah for my trolling motor, it has been working great so far. 0.2C for that battery puts you at a 20a charger, which is getting up there for battery chargers. I use this charger with my Weize. It is a "detached" charger, so I bring the charger to the boat when it's time to charge it. If you are looking for a charger that stays with a boat, something like that 10a NOCO would work great as well. ►Weize 20a Charger (sometimes unavailable): amzn.to/42yjfFk
Very informative video …. I can tell you’ve done lots of research. I’m thinking of upgrading to lithium this year on my boat and looked a bit into Dakota’s mainly because they are sold at a nearby store. Dakota’s 60Ah dual purpose Starter / Deep Cycle battery’s BMS does have temperature cutoff that prevents charging below 0C /32F to protect the battery. And their deep cycle 135Ah battery has a built-in internal heating element for charging in very cold weather. But as you mentioned I don’t see anything on the Dakota website for cold weather cutoff for the 100Ah model you mentioned and were comparing to other 100Ah brands. So, for Dakotas and I assume other manufacturers it looks like the consumer needs to check model by model for various features. Cheers.
I’m thinking about buying a Dakota battery but I heard the shipping process and customer service is a nightmare. Please if anyone has experience this, let me know thanks!
Great Presentation. I watch Will Prouse also. Good, thorough. I’m gonna risk it and get the Weise brand. I think, on a good day in china,,,,they can produce a reliable lithium product. Thanksssss for your effort. My friend, I’m always curious about the dirt cheap Chinese flexible solar. I mean,,,2-3 hundred bucks for two 4-500 watt panels. I think their numbers are in perfect laboratory conditions. Should I risk it?…🤣🙏🤞🏼. You presentation was thorough and accurate 👍
I’m not falling for the lithium batteries for 2 reasons. Number 1 it can burn your boat down on the water. Number 2 if your starting battery dies you either troller motor back or get towed. You can’t interchange starting and deep cycle like you can with lead acid.
@@vjmotano835 best of luck! 1) LiFePO4 is quite a stable chemistry. I'd recommend evaluating it compared to some of the power tool, e-bike, phone or car battery chemistries. It's far more stable than any of those. Most 100Ah LiFePO4 batteries can handle a ~500a surge for 5s, which may be enough to crank over the big engine. $60 jump starters work just fine as well and are plentiful.
@goodmanfishing I just learned about Eternal from my boat mechanics FB.I did a search and saw reviews from users of 6 mos to a year ago. Eternal Lithium also has a website. They seem kind of expensive and limited in choice, and the 12 year warranty is weak. I'm looking to get one Lithium for my boat electronics, hence my looking around.
I am shopping around for my 45lb Minn Kota. I don't have $800 for a Miller Tech. I do have the small 20ah 12v DC for my Fish Finder. A friend of mine has the ORGRPHY but he has a 55lb TM. @@goodmanfishing
The statements on the datasheets leave the time they find!!! I have noticed that the cyclical life promised by very expensive brands is always lower than super cheap brands !! What does this mean? That if Mastervolt says its lithium does 2000 cycles at 80%, if victron says 2000. cycles, and the brand born yesterday Chinese on Amazon says 3000 or 4000, the first 2 tell the truth. the other lies. I am very experienced in lead acid batteries. Well, the best brands that really produce cells and batteries, do not give the mere number of cycles. But they show you the international standard of the tests they have done. and you can retrieve the real reports of the tests done by external bodies. Only this is synonymous with reality. the rest can all be invented
Nelle batterie al piombo cè una differenza enorme tra una marca famosa e che costruisce celle e batterie e sviluppa tecnologie, e una marca che compra batterie cinesi e gli mette il suo nome. ENORME. Non capisco perche per lifepo4 debba essere diverso? Tutti questi elogi di TH-cam su batterie litio economiche si basano su un paio di sciocchi test dio capacita. Ma chi ha mai provato queste batterie per 5 anni? per 3000 cicli? Le batterie si valutano esclusivamente dopo anni e anni di uso!! 4 miei amici su 4 con batterie litio economiche e mediamente economiche, le hanno rotte in meno di un anno!!! sempre cella guasta senza motivo o guasto al bms che ha rovinato le celle. Ovviamente qualcuno dira che è un caso. Nessuno che conosco con una lifepo4 da 1000 euro per 100ah, ha avuto problemi in un. anno
Most or all these batteries are made in china. Do your research of build and tear downs before you decide. Chances are you might not keep your boat dor 10 yrs, or you might change your set up in 5 yrs so dont look at it as a 10yr investment.
that where the issue are , these batteries seem like a great thing but have BMS electronic circuit(cheap components) which fails eventually, cant hold that current in and out constantly , some 6 months , or 2 years max and then toast no voltage or charging , ,they will Not last 10 years its all a scam , china just make money on you $150, $250 $500 etc buying new ones over and over , its better to by agm/ sla lead acid battery Has None , and why they will last for sure .
You are so good at addressing features and displaying the comparisons. Thank you, sir!
Thank you!
what about trolling battery did you say very good explanation
@@wageragefishingteam7720 I went with the Weize battery as I tend to use/charge my batteries year round and it has the battery management system for handling cold charge shutoff. It also has a 10 year warranty is light, and priced at the low end. Perfect fit to me so far. I have only had them in for less than 6 months, but so far, so good!! Sidenote:...I purchased/installed a NOCO 2-Bank 10-Amp OnBoard Battery Charger for my 2 new Weize batteries
In general, the TI units are faster in response to inputs. This is seen when quickly switching between sonar, downscan, chart, and split screens th-cam.com/users/postUgkxeAxH15LxhjGlg5-CRYqjTGTEH0tbY4vk recommend The Hook units will show some lag on button pushes and screen switching. The big ticket item though is maps. If you install a mapping card such as Navionics or the free C-Map Genesis which has a lot of map detail, then moving around the map with the cursor or when running down the lake can lag significantly on the Hook units, but is seamless with the TI units.
Awesome!
Most of the super cheap Chinese mppt controllers have more electronic protections in the documentation, than the Morningstar or victron controllers. Does this make them better?? Absolutely not.
Victron will not mention that it has an AC voltage stabilizer input to the hybrid invert, as it is discounted. Victron does not mention dozens of protections of its chargers. They can only be found on specific sections of the website reserved for very experienced people.
When a manual lists dozens of features, it's a bad sign. Those who boast too much are usually worth little
@@goodmanfishing
Started with Dakota lithium. Had a failure at around a year. Had issues with a warranty claim. Dakota wanted me to go back to the dealer, but dealer had quit selling because of warranty issues. This was a small battery for fishing electronics.
For my trolling motor, I went with Battle Born. Expensive but no issues going on 2 years.
After the sticker shock with Battle Born, I started looking for something more economical. Based on the Will Prose reviews, I chose Weize. Only 6 months in, but no issues.
Thanks for sharing your experiences!
That Weize still doing the job? Looks like that's my choice if I don't find anything really bad about them.
Thanks
Since this video I've had a Weize that performed fine but the lid showed up loose and easily detached. 👀
Monster marines customer service is second to none they were fast to answer any questions I had. I ordered my battery’s on the phone with them and they showed up on my door step the next day!!
I’ve put them to the test and they are amazing I can fish for days without charging them !
Great to hear, thanks for the intel!
Thank you so much. You helped me without me even knowing i needed help. Great info.
Glad to help!
i have a Wieze and used the Heck out of it with no issues. Cold temp also worked as i am in Central NY and temps dip bellow 32 deg F. As these batteries do not omit gases when charged...I put a shop light in compartment to keep temp up. As it didn't charge one night do to cold temp cut off. But it still had plenty of power for next day as you can use 100% of a Lithium compared to a Lead Acid.
Sounds like it's working great!
What do you use as your starter battery?
@@KevinGarcia-ig3fd lead acid for now
Thanks for this video... I'm totally ignorant on batteries and I was researching everything to find a good & affordable lithium battery for my trolling moter - and understand what everything meant that I was reading about. With some frustration, I was going to order the Eco battery, but after watching your video I also went with the Weize. I do wish you would have explained what battery cycles is talking about... I've seen ads talking about 2000, 3000... I think I've seen it up to 15,000 cycles, and have no clue what it means. The Weize battery said it had 2000-8000 cycles depending on whether you're running wide open or at 50%, compared to a lead battery having 500... it sounds great, I just don't know what it means. But other than still not quite understanding battery cycles, I learned a lot from your video.
After doing some research I decided on the monster marine. I called and talk to them and they were very helpful in choosing what I needed. I also ordered their new charging system which will charge different volt batteries and charge with the engine and shore power, it also allows you to jump start your cranking battery off your trolling battery even if their different voltage. They also say on their website that their batteries have a cold weather shutoff.
It sounds like they have to setup well!
I checked again and was unable to find low temp cutoff for charging, their site mentions high cutoff specifically.
www.monstermarinelithium.com/faq
"BMS stands for Battery Management System. The BMS protects the cells from getting damaged from common over or under voltage, over current, extreme high temperature, external short circuiting. This system will shut off the battery to protect the cells from unsafe operating conditions. All MML batteries have the most Advanced BMS built into the battery to insure protection."
@@goodmanfishing It might have been the charger that said it stopped charging at low temperatures. It was $999 for the charger but I think in the long run it will be worth it. I don't have to worry about getting too cold anyway because I live in south FL.
UPDATES!
*IONIC*
This one is fun. While reviewing IONIC's website it appears Low Temperature Cutoff is now a listed feature on the main battery page. However, the site shows it will still charge below freezing, down to 24°F, which is interesting. Typical battery chargers will *not* adjust the charge rate (0.1C or Less) low enough to be safe below 32°F and that would cause lithium plating.
AND when you go to the battery manual, the table on page 18 does not show low temperature protection temperatures listed. So does it really have it?
*Product Link:* lithiumhub.com/product/12-volt-100ah-lithium-deep-cycle-battery/ - "Built in cold weather protection - Does not take a charge if temperatures are below -4C or 24F in our case. Some variations with part tolerances."
*Manual Link:* lithiumhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/ownersmanual.lowrez.updated.pdf
*Powerhouse Lithium* Powerhouse provided me with confirmation that they do have Low Temperature Cutout on their batteries, great news!
*Warranties*
Warranties seem to have caused some confusion. I mention in the video that many of these higher-year warranties are *pro-rated* . Some of them are *heavily* pro-rated and you will need to look through the warranty guidelines for a manufacturer to determine what that means to you.
Ionic shows an 11 year warranty and your chart shows a five year warranty
@@steveking8548 Thanks for the comment Steve. I tried to align the Warranty the best I could with what information I could find.
For Ionic specifically, they have the following terms, which is a free replacement up to 5 years. After that it is pro-rated.
lithiumhub.com/warranty-information/
- First 30 days - Refund of original purchase price with return of battery
- 30 days to 5 Years (60 months) - LithiumHub will repair battery free of charge. If repair is not possible battery replacement will be provided.
- 5 years to 8 years (61 months to 96 months) - LithiumHub will repair or replace battery with a service charge of $150 per battery.
- 8 years to 11 years (97 months to 132 months) - Replacement discount offer of 30% on a similar product valid for 30 days from notification.
Thank you! Good review. I too have decided to go with Weize. Should be delivered tomorrow.
Great to hear!
Should consider Epoch batteries as well. Feature packed, great warranty
I'll take a look 👍
Great info, appreciate you compiling and laying everything out. I was about to buy an Eco battery for my new kayak, but just ordered a 36ah Weize instead.
Thanks for the comment!
Rocked it with the battery review. Thanks, agree with your battery choice, I was already leaning that way.
Thanks!
What was his choice? Wyse?
I'm not really sure how important a low temp cut off is anyways. How often are you taking a bass boat out when the temperature is below freezing? Temperature of the place you store the boat? Could you pop a propane heater in there in the rare chance you are going to use it in freezing weather?
Where I live in northwestern ontario, spring and fall nighttime temperatures can fall well below zero. If you leave your rig in the water overnight you sometimes have to chip away the ice around the boat in the morning. So for me, it’s definitely a requirement if I want to charge my batteries overnight. But for someone who lives in more temperate climate, I wouldn’t worry about it.
Thanks for compiling some data, but I want to see INSIDE of the batteries to know what we're buying. Quality of cells and components, quality of solder joints/connections, vibration and moisture mitigation, etc. I think we can all read the labels.
Great suggestion!
I linked a couple of teardown videos that go into great detail there. I wish I had the resources to buy all of these to do such a review, that's about $8,000 worth of batteries 😶
Epoch tear down!
Super review. Thanks for the information
Ionic has 10 year warranty. Yes they start prorating the last couple of years, but it is not 5 years
Great information. Thanks
Disclaimer: I am not promoting Dakota Lithium just sharing my experience. With that said, I use a 12v 10ah Dakota Lithium for my ice fishing Sonar (Helix 5) and it has been very good. I can run it in the cold Canadian winter (-20c) and after 4 or 5 hours the sonar is still reading full battery... I dunno. I recharge it every other time I go out not because it needs it but because I am usually recharging my ION ice auger 40v 4ah anyway. But it is worth mentioning I NEVER charge them while they are cold and always bring them into the basement and give them a few hours minimum before putting the charger on them. I am learning from these videos though and considering a cheaper option moving forward because it is beginning to look like some of these lower priced batteries could be good enough.
Thanks for sharing!
Ionic has cold weather protection and will not take a charge below 24°. This information is easy to find on their site.
I have a comment up above on this in particular, I've found conflicting information between their website and their battery manual.
While reviewing IONIC's website it appears Low Temperature Cutoff is now a listed feature on the main battery page. However, the site shows it will still charge below freezing, down to 24°F, which is interesting. Typical battery chargers will not adjust the charge rate (0.1C or Less) low enough to be safe below 32°F which would cause lithium plating.
Page 18 shows *no* low temperature cut-off temperatures
lithiumhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/ownersmanual.lowrez.updated.pdf
What about Epock? Search engine failure or human error?
Great video- you saved me a ton of money!
Dakota lithium mentions their low temp protection on their website under "how to charge", then scroll down to "what is the BMS". They also mention the batteries can't be charged if they're below 32 degrees several times further down. On a seperate note, I've used Norske batteries all winter for years without trouble. I had no idea I shouldn't be charging my ice fishing batteries in my unheated, uninsulated garage in Central WI. They go to 100% every time. I guess I'll start bringing them in the house for charging!
Hi Tim, Thanks for the comment! I looked at the manual linked below and was not able to confirm "low" temperature protection. Maybe I am looking in the wrong spot? Do you have a link?
The linked manual states:
• Page 4 states "the BMS has....temperature protection" - Not specifically low temperature.
• Page 5 states "Avoid charging the battery when it is freezing...."
• Page 12 states "Charging lithium iron phosphate batteries below 32°F not only makes your batteries unsafe, but it also will drastically and permanently reduce the capacity."
• It will also void the warranty if you charge below 32°F.
dakotalithium.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Dakota-Lithium-Batteries-User-Manual.pdf
My interpretation is that I cannot find where they directly state the 100Ah battery has low temperature cutoff. Charging it below 32°F would _not_ be possible with a BMS that supported low temperature cutoff and therefore it doesn't need to be avoided, wouldn't be unsafe or possible to void the warranty that way. I'd love to hear from Dakota on this one!
Li Time does have a low temp cut off option.
Thanks for the comment, yes that's true. Their "trolling motor" battery is a couple more bucks and came out after this video was put together 👍
Thank you! after a year do you still feel the same? My lead acids died and need to go with lithium. and charger set up? Do you have a video on that?
I just did a video on the latest batteries under $300 that is worth a watch. I do have a couple of charging videos, does depend on what type of charger you are after.
Thanks i will check it out. Charger would be an on board 3 way or 4 way. Will need to upgrade the start batt also
Now that was a good informative video. I like some others don't know much about this type of battery. I am from old school using the old heavy type battery. I looked at a new Ranger 520R. I had bass tracker type battery. Lithium. You said not to go with this battery. It is one of the cheap ones. Why are they doing that on a $100,000 bass boat?
Bass Pro owns White River Marine Group, which owns both Ranger and Tracker, I would certainly expect their own boats to have their own batteries.
Great video. Thanks
It isn't time yet, but I'll be going with Ionic due to their Bluetooth app. I monitor my Mercury outboard with their app, and knowing both motor and battery will be very comforting. I also note that prices have fallen dramatically over the past year: a 100Ah Ionic used to be $1100.
Thanks for the Comment, the Bluetooth connectivity can certainly be an advantage! I have an updated video coming out soon that touches on Bluetooth 👍
Ionic has 11 year warranty now
I went Ionic as well for the Bluetooth app. I am in FL so low temps are not a concern but knowing the charge and discharge rate as well as amount of juice remaining are critical things you can watch in real time with your phone. For example I learned my 24v 80lb trolling motor pulls 45 amps and my 90HP Yamaha charges at 7 to 8 amps. The weight savings is almost laughable, they don't even feel like batteries, more like a cooler with a six-pack in it. My flats boat is now 137lbs lighter. This weekend I'll do more extensive testing, so far only used them for about an hour to ensure all system were good. I went with two 100ah for my 16 footer used inshore saltwater.
Follow up - fished 6 hours, it was pretty windy but tide didn’t seem too bad, trolling motor (Fortex 80) on two 100ah Ionic batteries (24v) down to 65% (-35%). So not bad, could have fished two days back to back without charging and been OK.
@@goodmanfishing Looking forward to that video as I see from a google search just now that there are a number of other manufacturers besides Ionic that have the Bluetooth function. Subscribed.
Have you ever test a ipower queen battery
I actually have a test video with a 100Ah mini Power Queen on my channel 👍
Just got an ionic. The Bluetooth is really very useful. It shows the battery temperature. I didn’t realize how much I would like that app. I moved it from my house to my cold garage. It takes many hours for the temp to substantially drop FWIW.
Great point, it does take a very long time for the ambient temperature to make its way through!
The Bluetooth is awesome. I can be sitting on my couch and see if I'm fully charged without going to the boat and physically looking. Also shows how many cycles you've used
great video. thank you !
What charger do you use with the Weize 100Ah?
I ordered a Weize 20a charger from Amazon but it does not appear to be available anymore.
For 100Ah you should charge it at 0.2C, or 20amps, ideally. This charger is similar
amzn.to/3LRvHtT
Thanks for the great info. As I don't know much about batteries- do I need to have a shut of switch between the solar panels on Van roof to batteries (inside) if temp is below 30F? So the Battle born battery doesn't get damaged during charging in low temp.
It will take extended periods below freezing to get the cell temperature to freezing. If it's possible to happen in your application, a switch is a good idea
Do I need a special battery charger for a lithium battery?
Definitely. Check this video here
CAN You (Should You?) Charge a LITHIUM Battery with a LEAD ACID Charger?
th-cam.com/video/B0dkZ63QUZE/w-d-xo.html
(Charging systems)
Is an outboards charging system ok for lithium batteries.
I installed one ,50hp Yamaha
(The battery was charged,)
The volt meter, (running))
showed 14.7 volts ?
Nice video, well thought out
Would do you think about the LiTime 12v 100 ah mini battery?
Certainly looks like an interesting solution. I have not seen one torn down, I suspect they went to a prismatic cell versus a cylindrical, which is a more dense package. Should make for a great battery for a kayak or a tight battery compartment.
What about Rebel Batteries?
You missed the best one. The EPOCH lithium battery is my personal favorite
I'll check them out. What has your experience been with EPOCH?
The litime made for trolling motors which sell for about 300$ absolutely have low temp cut off.
For sure. Those have come out since this video. Their new Group 24 may be even better. Just got both
Dakota lithium now claims to have low temp protections
EDIT: I am looking at the DL+ 12V 60ah dual purpose battery
Do you have to have a special batterie charger with a lithium batterie ?
Hi Tina, yes you should have a lithium charger for a couple of reasons.
A lead acid charger won't get a lithium to 100%, it will get it in the 80-90% but that is leaving some energy on the table.
Lithiums will also "turn off" if you misuse it, accidentally short it. A lithium charger will give it a quick 12v hit to turn it back on/reset the BMS.
what is the best (cheapest ) 36 volt lithium battery for a trolling motor
Sorry, I do not have experience with budget 36v batteries. What options have you found?
Another that watches Wills reviews and teardown on the budget lipo's and would rather buy 2 100ah for the same or less money than one of the big brands for trolling motor/electronics use on a small boat.
Another thing is I do not go fishing when the weather is really cold and again being in a small boat just using battery boxes with easily removable batteries bring my batteries inside during the winter anyway so not worried about the low temp charge cutoff.
Common sense and buying the bang for the buck options here is the smartest move in my opinion.
There's a lot to be said for that 👍
Good Video, the only issue is that these 100 amp hours you are comparing are older technology, for example Dakota now has a DL+12v135ah that is half the size of that older 100ah with 35% more power than the old 100ah. Bigger companies have moved away from cyclendrical cells to prismatic getting more energy density. So they have not been upgrading the older batteries just creating new, better ones.
Are you referring to their $1,200 dual purpose battery?
@@goodmanfishing yes that's the one
How dangerous are they when they are submerged under water, like during hurricane season?
Most are sealed and aren't a concern.
Looking through the Warranties of several of the brands and Dakota for sure along with others is a bit of smoke and mirrors. They sell you a new one at a discount at the 5-6 year mark. Powerhouse seems to be the only true 10 year fix or replace and discounted up to 15 years..... I think Im going to pull the trigger on the PowerHouse.
They can vary quite a bit!
I have since found MillerTech also has a great warranty 👍
@@goodmanfishing I was interested in MillerTech because of their faith based business but there warranty is 10years with 6 years replacement. From 6-10 they will fix the battery if they can but if they cant they sell you a new battery at %50 discount. I still think I’m going to pull the trigger on Powerhouse and probably today since they have %15 off their entire site until 11-24-23.
Love my epoch customer service is amazing its heated and Bluetooth also great price
Can I use a 12volt 100ah lithium battery to use in my boat as both power for all my electronics AND cranking? My concern is that it wont have enough cranking power. My motor calls from 515-650 cranking amps
You need a lithium "cranking" or starting battery, the batteries discussed here are all deep cycle. Intended for relatively low loads, trolling vs cranking. As mentioned they are 1C discharge rates, you can get a little more than 100A out of one of them for a very brief period.
Some companies make dual-purpose batteries, but you would not want to use one of these as a cranking battery.
Could you look into AOLithium batteries? My friend uses them & they fall in the $400 range with Bluetooth. But reading their "Simple" warranty is quite confusing... doesn't seem like their 8year prorated warranty, warranties anything really.
Thanks for this video.
Sincerely,
Matthew
I've not heard of that brand but will take a look at it!
@goodman_fishing Sounds good...
I ended up getting the EPOCH (by RoyPow) 36v 100ah trolling motor battery for my future trolling motor, can't wait. Less wiring, built in heater, Bluetooth, etcetera.
Thanks again for the video
The guy you showed recently tested a Watt Cycle battery. He said he was amazed and it is his new favorite budget battery. It had like 105 amp hours. It had cold and hot cut off. It was only $155. Those people selling those batters for over $400 is a complete RIP off.
Thank you!
looking for a lithium battery for a minn kota powerdrive 55lb 54" for my 12' Flycraft? The 12V 54AH Dakota is $400? Worth it or go with a cheaper 12V 50AH competitor? Do I need 100AH? Thank you
@@brooktroutangler5917 I have a specific video covering recent 50-60Ah options.
I personally wouldn't spend the extra money on a Dakota. There are a lot of options worth considering in that video 👍
2024 50-60Ah Lithium Battery Comparison - LiFePO4 | Chins | LiTime | Dakota | MillerTech | Ionic
th-cam.com/video/G3D5lw1iGyU/w-d-xo.html
@@goodmanfishing Thank you. I liked and subscribed. Will go with the Wieze for far less.
Thank you again......will these LI batteries work with a box? I don't really want that battery exposed to the water as water does spill over all day.
@@brooktroutangler5917 sure will. You can enclose them however you like.
What’s a good Lithium Charger to use with a 50a battery. Looking at buying a Weise 50a to run my boat electronics only. 2 Hummingbird Helix units, MegaLive and Target lock. Nothing else would be ran off this battery. Thinking 50a would be plenty. What are your thought on that? And a charger. The ones you’ve listed above in your comments are both discontinued or unavailable.
I'll find some new links, thanks for letting me know!
For size, that sounds like it might be close for a full day on a 50Ah, I'm not sure of the current draw on the target lock. I have this video below that runs through the math for run time.
As far as a charger, the rule of thumb is to charge at 0.2C for a LFP battery. So, 50Ah x 0.2 = 10a. That's ideal for that size battery. I'd take a look at NOCO
amzn.to/3miANFc
The BEST Battery Size For Fish Finders | Livescope | Garmin | Humminbird | Lowrance
th-cam.com/video/jlNd5xKaC3A/w-d-xo.html
@@goodmanfishing target lock manual says it is a 1.2A max draw for power.
@@goodmanfishing after looking at your graph it appears a 100a battery would be better for my intended purpose. I’m considering the Weise 100a Lithium Lipo4. What charger do you recommend for this battery. And your thoughts on the Weise Lithium. It’s an economical batter for sure. Also have you ever tried any external Bluetooth monitoring system? I think that would be nice.
I have the Weize 100Ah for my trolling motor, it has been working great so far. 0.2C for that battery puts you at a 20a charger, which is getting up there for battery chargers.
I use this charger with my Weize. It is a "detached" charger, so I bring the charger to the boat when it's time to charge it. If you are looking for a charger that stays with a boat, something like that 10a NOCO would work great as well.
►Weize 20a Charger (sometimes unavailable): amzn.to/42yjfFk
Excellent Review
Thank you! Working on an update focused on the
Very informative video …. I can tell you’ve done lots of research. I’m thinking of upgrading to lithium this year on my boat and looked a bit into Dakota’s mainly because they are sold at a nearby store. Dakota’s 60Ah dual purpose Starter / Deep Cycle battery’s BMS does have temperature cutoff that prevents charging below 0C /32F to protect the battery. And their deep cycle 135Ah battery has a built-in internal heating element for charging in very cold weather. But as you mentioned I don’t see anything on the Dakota website for cold weather cutoff for the 100Ah model you mentioned and were comparing to other 100Ah brands. So, for Dakotas and I assume other manufacturers it looks like the consumer needs to check model by model for various features. Cheers.
OHMMU, absolutely the best
I’m thinking about buying a Dakota battery but I heard the shipping process and customer service is a nightmare. Please if anyone has experience this, let me know thanks!
Great Presentation. I watch Will Prouse also. Good, thorough. I’m gonna risk it and get the Weise brand. I think, on a good day in china,,,,they can produce a reliable lithium product. Thanksssss for your effort. My friend, I’m always curious about the dirt cheap Chinese flexible solar. I mean,,,2-3 hundred bucks for two 4-500 watt panels. I think their numbers are in perfect laboratory conditions. Should I risk it?…🤣🙏🤞🏼.
You presentation was thorough and accurate 👍
Thank you for the comment!
I ended up returning my Weize due to a capacity issue. They handled it well. Just FYI. There's another video on that 👍
I’m not falling for the lithium batteries for 2 reasons. Number 1 it can burn your boat down on the water. Number 2 if your starting battery dies you either troller motor back or get towed. You can’t interchange starting and deep cycle like you can with lead acid.
@@vjmotano835 best of luck!
1) LiFePO4 is quite a stable chemistry. I'd recommend evaluating it compared to some of the power tool, e-bike, phone or car battery chemistries. It's far more stable than any of those.
Most 100Ah LiFePO4 batteries can handle a ~500a surge for 5s, which may be enough to crank over the big engine. $60 jump starters work just fine as well and are plentiful.
Eternal Lithium was not on your list of many. Why?
Never heard of them! What do you think about the brand?
@goodmanfishing I just learned about Eternal from my boat mechanics FB.I did a search and saw reviews from users of 6 mos to a year ago. Eternal Lithium also has a website. They seem kind of expensive and limited in choice, and the 12 year warranty is weak. I'm looking to get one Lithium for my boat electronics, hence my looking around.
There's another one that you may want to check out is Zpro batteries
I've seen some advertisements for them lately, have you used them? 👍
Li Time has 2 different specific "Trolling Motor" 12 volt batteries with Low Temp Charging protection. BEST BANG for your buck!!!
Agree that's a good one. Working on an update for this video 👍
I bought my Dakota for under $400. I own 3 of them
Great price! How did you find that deal?
💯 battle born
Epoch !!
The pro fishermen don't have to buy their batteries so they can go high dollar and get paid to push them to us
10:41 10:42
Miller Tech, OGRPHY
I do have a MillerTech 36v and it's awesome
I am shopping around for my 45lb Minn Kota. I don't have $800 for a Miller Tech. I do have the small 20ah 12v DC for my Fish Finder. A friend of mine has the ORGRPHY but he has a 55lb TM. @@goodmanfishing
@@goodmanfishing no IP rating provided by Millertech though which probably means IP 54
@ryank5388 they have a vent on top of their battery to relieve any sweating or condensation concerns
Thanks!@@goodmanfishing
The statements on the datasheets leave the time they find!!! I have noticed that the cyclical life promised by very expensive brands is always lower than super cheap brands !! What does this mean?
That if Mastervolt says its lithium does 2000 cycles at 80%, if victron says 2000. cycles, and the brand born yesterday Chinese on Amazon says 3000 or 4000, the first 2 tell the truth. the other lies. I am very experienced in lead acid batteries. Well, the best brands that really produce cells and batteries, do not give the mere number of cycles. But they show you the international standard of the tests they have done. and you can retrieve the real reports of the tests done by external bodies. Only this is synonymous with reality. the rest can all be invented
....in summary, I don't know either.
Nelle batterie al piombo cè una differenza enorme tra una marca famosa e che costruisce celle e batterie e sviluppa tecnologie, e una marca che compra batterie cinesi e gli mette il suo nome. ENORME.
Non capisco perche per lifepo4 debba essere diverso?
Tutti questi elogi di TH-cam su batterie litio economiche si basano su un paio di sciocchi test dio capacita.
Ma chi ha mai provato queste batterie per 5 anni? per 3000 cicli?
Le batterie si valutano esclusivamente dopo anni e anni di uso!!
4 miei amici su 4 con batterie litio economiche e mediamente economiche, le hanno rotte in meno di un anno!!! sempre cella guasta senza motivo o guasto al bms che ha rovinato le celle. Ovviamente qualcuno dira che è un caso.
Nessuno che conosco con una lifepo4 da 1000 euro per 100ah, ha avuto problemi in un. anno
Most or all these batteries are made in china. Do your research of build and tear downs before you decide. Chances are you might not keep your boat dor 10 yrs, or you might change your set up in 5 yrs so dont look at it as a 10yr investment.
that where the issue are , these batteries seem like a great thing but have BMS electronic circuit(cheap components) which fails eventually, cant hold that current in and out constantly , some 6 months , or 2 years max and then toast no voltage or charging , ,they will Not last 10 years its all a scam , china just make money on you $150, $250 $500 etc buying new ones over and over , its better to by agm/ sla lead acid battery Has None , and why they will last for sure .
LiFePO4
10 years on the Li time. Lol