I think this is honestly some of the best advice I know my own spiritual father gave me this advice cuz I used to say that when in prayer I didn't feel like my heart was truly in it and he was like you should still pray anyway you should force yourself to pray. Eventually you'll come to love it and never want to stop. And even if you never loved prayer. And you have to force yourself every time the good Lord will reward you.
I read my prayers fast because because that's how my brain operates. I don't control what goes on in there. If God wants me to read slower He will make it so. I don't pray to show God how humble I am, I do it in obedience and hope. Who cares what I feel? Who cares what I think or believe? I'm doing what I'm commanded to do despite my trash state. If it's unpleasant to God, then I'm just as spiritually screwed as I suspect. But if God is as merciful as everyone says He is, my reliance is 100% to be found there.
As long as your spirit works with your brain and the source of prayer is within your spirit, that's all fine. But if the heart does not pray with lips, reward is smaller, though still present
Yeah but thats about the Jesus prayer. St John talks about general prayer. Not all prayer is noetic, we shouldn't force ourselves to pray If our goal is to achieve noetic prayer, but If not, then we should force ourselves
Good question. I’ve often struggled to understand St. Porphyrios’ teaching on prayer in light of other saints who speak of forcing oneself. What is undeniably true is that there were certainly times St. Porphyrios was tempted not to pray, to fast, to sacrifice for Christ and his neighbor. But he chose to sacrifice nonetheless. Was this done by force? In some sense I think we must say yes and no. It’s also true that the saint was a great ascetic. Read this in light of other teachings. www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2013/08/elder-porphyrios-and-need-for-asceticism.html?m=1 Sometimes saints appear to contradict each other but it’s really us who are not yet able to grasp the harmony of their God-inspired teachings.
I recently read this from Wounded By Love also. I think what is meant is WHILE we are praying to not be forceful but remember we are speaking with the Lord and thus must be gentle. That does not mean to not force yourself TO pray. That once you start, put in the spirit of gentleness and do not be forceful but calm in prayer. I think that is what St Porphyrios means. But what do I know? I walked face first into a closed door today after my hand slipped off the handle.
If you find your beliefs to be at odds with those of the saints or what is in the Bible, you may want to reconsider them. Who's more loving? The mother who forces herself to wake and nurse her child or the one who does it when she feels like it?
A mother forces herself to get up and feed her child BECAUSE she loves her child. It sometimes still requires force and an effort of will to defeat the temptation to ignore the crying and go back to sleep. Caring for people you love is not always easy and the temptation to be selfish is always there and sometimes you have to force yourself.
@sleepingtube yes, and Jesus said that the Kingdom of Heaven is taken by force. Many saints tell us that praying is hard. They know.. and they know well the powers of the evil ones who fight against the prayers of the saints...
I think this is honestly some of the best advice I know my own spiritual father gave me this advice cuz I used to say that when in prayer I didn't feel like my heart was truly in it and he was like you should still pray anyway you should force yourself to pray. Eventually you'll come to love it and never want to stop. And even if you never loved prayer. And you have to force yourself every time the good Lord will reward you.
The little on prayer book by St. John is amazing too
This book is inexhaustible well 🙏☦️ Glory to God.
Thanks that you have finally shared teachings of Saint John of Kronstadt, I was waiting for it. 😅
God bless you all.
THIS IS GOLD! ☦️☦️☦️
Amen, Savvas!
I read my prayers fast because because that's how my brain operates. I don't control what goes on in there. If God wants me to read slower He will make it so. I don't pray to show God how humble I am, I do it in obedience and hope. Who cares what I feel? Who cares what I think or believe? I'm doing what I'm commanded to do despite my trash state. If it's unpleasant to God, then I'm just as spiritually screwed as I suspect. But if God is as merciful as everyone says He is, my reliance is 100% to be found there.
As long as your spirit works with your brain and the source of prayer is within your spirit, that's all fine. But if the heart does not pray with lips, reward is smaller, though still present
Love this
Thank you
☦️
☦️☦️☦️
Doesn’t St Porphyrios say that we shouldn’t pray with forcefulness?
Yeah but thats about the Jesus prayer. St John talks about general prayer. Not all prayer is noetic, we shouldn't force ourselves to pray If our goal is to achieve noetic prayer, but If not, then we should force ourselves
Good question. I’ve often struggled to understand St. Porphyrios’ teaching on prayer in light of other saints who speak of forcing oneself. What is undeniably true is that there were certainly times St. Porphyrios was tempted not to pray, to fast, to sacrifice for Christ and his neighbor. But he chose to sacrifice nonetheless. Was this done by force? In some sense I think we must say yes and no. It’s also true that the saint was a great ascetic. Read this in light of other teachings.
www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2013/08/elder-porphyrios-and-need-for-asceticism.html?m=1
Sometimes saints appear to contradict each other but it’s really us who are not yet able to grasp the harmony of their God-inspired teachings.
I recently read this from Wounded By Love also. I think what is meant is WHILE we are praying to not be forceful but remember we are speaking with the Lord and thus must be gentle. That does not mean to not force yourself TO pray. That once you start, put in the spirit of gentleness and do not be forceful but calm in prayer. I think that is what St Porphyrios means. But what do I know? I walked face first into a closed door today after my hand slipped off the handle.
If I had to guess it’s about not working yourself into a artificial frenzy
Good reply man . Deep. Glory to our Lord Jesus @@Inevitable-Infarct
I find it hard using force when love should not be forced.. the whole heart is never involved under force
The remembrance of death is the best way to force yourself
If you find your beliefs to be at odds with those of the saints or what is in the Bible, you may want to reconsider them. Who's more loving? The mother who forces herself to wake and nurse her child or the one who does it when she feels like it?
@ it isn’t forced when she loves her child though … if she is truly forcing herself then it won’t last long at all
A mother forces herself to get up and feed her child BECAUSE she loves her child. It sometimes still requires force and an effort of will to defeat the temptation to ignore the crying and go back to sleep. Caring for people you love is not always easy and the temptation to be selfish is always there and sometimes you have to force yourself.
@sleepingtube yes, and Jesus said that the Kingdom of Heaven is taken by force.
Many saints tell us that praying is hard. They know.. and they know well the powers of the evil ones who fight against the prayers of the saints...