I know, but are you sure you got it all? Did you test by acidifying your purified dioxane and checking for discoloration? I'm not totally convinced that you got it all.
Sir: This is really good and commendable work. You have tied this together very nicely with Na metal production. In my eyes and opinion you have brought back the respect that the "Amateur Chemist" deserves. After all, some of the greatest discoveries were made by individuals investigating matter and nature just exactly like this. Bravo!
I just made some dioxane yesterday, but took the time to distill my ethylene glycol. I still got the tarry side products in the initial reaction, but with all of the fluorescein and other additives removed, it was easy to wash out with common detergent. The process didn't smell nearly as bad, either. I also used KOH to clean it, and NurdRage is definitely correct in that it is much easier to use a separatory funnel! Sadly, it did not work to clean my amalgam. I'm guessing that I had too much unreacted NaOH in it, because it just made a gooey mess and etched my flask. The goo cleaned up easily enough with an acid wash, but the etching... Well, maybe it will mean that I don't need boiling chips in future projects. Bright side. Think bright side.
Well, well . . What d'ya know! A well written and constructive comment on TH-cam. Props to you eclectichoosier5474. Better seven years late than never! I am getting ready to make some sodium à la NurdRage using lab grade ethylene glycol and 98% sulfuric acid. Should be interesting-and fun. I am curious as to how much of that black goo I get. (I will also be going the potassium hydroxide and separatory funnel route. I'd like to avoid the etching issue.)
Love the amount of content produced recently! It doesn't need to be great, any kind of applied chemistry is good. Edit: great in "greatly innovative" sense. Pyrimethamine, exotic thermite and stuff. Simple organic and inorganic stuff is also a lot of fun to watch.
A video for a cheap/good diy way to make formaldehyde would be a great video. Sure it is pretty cheap in bulk, but there are always going to be ppl wanting to know how to make it in a SHTF situation
G'Day Nurdrage, I enjoy all your videos ,I have decided I must dollars to your patreon account, I feel you're description & mannerisms is what we need , I watched many your videos, this video & narration SPOT ON ,
Actually here is a tradition if we want to make water frezee proof we add just enough antifreeze to make it sweet. But you need to try only a little drop.
@NurdRage You could have used that acetaldehyde to make pentaerythritol. You just have to mix it with formaldehyde/paraformaldehyde, and add a bit of calcium hydroxide as catalyst.
It is not an urban legend at all! A decade ago some technician was trying to open a bottle without label and it blew on their hand. It wasn't the peroxide of dioxane, but it was a similar case, where an organic molecule formed an unstable peroxide. Fortunately they recovered completely.
Exactly! I'm explaining its NOT an urban legend! Light ethers like dioxane, THF and diethyl ether are especially dangerous as the newly exploded bottle has just created a giant mist of the solvent... which can itself ignite causing an even bigger explosion. Thus amateurs should be very careful of making and storing ethers.
I worked with Haz waste. We found a bottle of diisopropyl ether with big clear crystals in it. Boss took it to the railroad track and shot at it. Ka-boom and big fireball. Peroxide forming is tertiary hydrogen > secondary > primary order of ease of free radical reaction. So MTBE should be safe.
Electron donating groups like Oxygen and CH2 accelerate peroxide formation. Electron withdrawing groups like in Nitromethane don't form peroxides but then Nitromethane detonates without.
It's interesting, since KOH is used to make liquid soap, and it remains liquidy, and NaOH is used to make hard soap, and it turns into a solid, seems it happens with this too.
brilliant as always. love how you are clear and explain it will detail. science excellent for scientific research and development and education purposes only. it's amazing how some just react slightly and some act violently. science. i wish i done more with it in school. then saying that i have learnt more through this excellent channel 👍
Make nitrocubane! Worked at University and was clearing out old Lab that had been un-used for 12 years. Found partial jar of Picric acid and 1/2 empty bottle of Diethyl Ether on the same shelf. The lid of the acid was rusted through and the Ether had a loose cork. Yes, cork. We called the Bomb Squad.
Nice video! I'm looking forward to your ether storage video. Peroxides in my ether are something that concern me too. Can you tell how much of a problem this is with MTBE?
Once you've joined two glycols the ends have a much higher probability finding each other than finding a third glycol molecule. So they cyclize at a higher rate, then the dioxane boils off and drives the reaction forward. Edit: massively blundered the wording, hopefully fixed it now
Wayne Moore he said that he wouldn't use it. I theink that he'll polymerize it with NaOH and then pour it down the drain, since the polymer is harmless.
Hi! I wanted to ask a few quick questions :) are crown-ethers byproducts here? and if so, could you tweak the reaction to yield more of them or a specific one?
You could, in fact, by using a calcium based salt with a non nucleophilic anion (sulfates are generally, avoid chlorides and bromides) what happens is calcium really likes to coordinate oxygenated functions, and to complete it’s coordination sphere, it might coordinate 2,3 or 4 glycol molecules depending on concentration, by then dehydrating the glycols using the calcium as a template, you should be able to get crown ethers
How do you dispose of all the waste chemicals that your experiments generate? Do you spend a lot of time working out a way to neutralise the waste to minimum toxicity?
Did you ever make a video on dealing with peroxides in ether solutions? I have some peroxide test strips that I think should work as a quick qualitative test (they test for "peroxides", not specifically just hydrogen peroxide).
When it comes to the part where you add sodium hydroxide to the dioxane/water azeotrope, does anyone know if I could instead "salt out" the water with NaCl, decant off the dioxane layer, and then add a small amount of NaOH to this to break down the impurities? The reason I ask is because I'd prefer to minimize the amount of NaOH I use and if something as cheap as table salt can accomplish the same thing (water removal) as base I'd rather use that. Thanks
Give it a try and see if it works. If it doesn't, you can filter off the NaCl and just go with NaOH. So there is no real downside (other than loss of excessively cheap NaCl)
Alright I'll give it a shot and report back with how it goes. I also considered separation by freezing (since dioxane has a melting point of 11.8°C vs water at 0°C) but figured things would get messy once removing from the fridge and putting the crystals on the pump. I ended up using cooling as a way of showing that I really did make some dioxane and that it was worthwhile to continue trying to purify my distillate. Thanks for the response!
oh okay. somebody was talking about how flat carbon is carcinogenic because it can separate dna like a knife. im assuming that its still a similar idea though.
Benzene has a pi system above and below the ring. It is flat and inflexible with sp2 hybridisation of the bonds. Dioxane's bonds are sp3 hybridised and flexible.
Further the carcinogenicity of benzene is more than just its flatness. It is aromatic and able to pi stack with the aromatic DNA bases. This means it will stay within the DNA and deform it, interfering with the DNA replication machinery and causing errors in the replication. Also, when the body metabolizes benzene it makes products that react with DNA, basically destroying it. Plus, there are many other properties that make it a carcinogen.
Can you separate the dioxane from the biproducts, (particularly the acetalaldehyde and maybe even the water) by freezing? I'm thinking of how vinegar can be concentrated this way, while I'm watching my dioxane freeze in the receiving flask as I'm distilling it. The dioxane makes beautiful ice crystals at only 50°F, while water and acetalaldehyde require much lower temps to freeze. My graham condenser froze up solid because I let the cooling water get too cold. Can it be done?
A thought occurs, can you add an inert gas such as argon to your dioxane storage vessel to mitigate the creation of the peroxides and allow for storage over the longer term?
I get the need for multiple income streams but almost EVERY youtube channel I follow has jumped on board this Great Courses affiliate program. I become a patreon so I don't have to see ads, I signed up to youtubeRED so I don't have to see ads.
CoxTH Phosphoric or polyphosphoric acid may be good as well. But they are somewhat more corrosive to glass. Shouldn't be a big problem at this temperature, though. Other acids are probably rather impractical for such reaction due to cost and availability (pTsOH), reactivity and low boiling point (HCl, HBr, HI), associated dangers (perchloric acid) or simply weakness of said acid (acetic, oxalic). In most cases including mentioned ones, there is a combination of factors making them unsuitable, for example acetic acid is weak, low boiling and forms esters.
People seem to go to extreme lengths in an attempt to get just a tiny amount of acetaldehyde. If you have a look at for instance John Black super chemist, he has a 4 part video on obtaining it with a setup that makes the time machine in back to the future look simple & yet here is this what appears to be straight forward process producing oceans of it. My question is, how sure are you that the byproduct mentioned is actually acetaldehyde?
I have two 1. in the distillation process I couldn't help but notice the two tubes connected to the connecting tube. what do they do and what would happen if I didn't have them
That tube is a condenser and those tubes carry water for cooling the hot vapors back into a liquid. If you didn't have the cooling water, your vapors would just be carried into the room or hood and float away. It's a still like what is used for moonshine.
take it from a lab tech, even a piece of bare copper wire (5 cm long) is enough to take care of any peroxides, just leave in the bottom of the storage bottle....with store brought ether it is not an issue any more because all of that stuff is stabilized with a very small amount a reducing agent.
i heard about copper wire but could never find any literature supporting it. All i could find was comments on internet forums. Would you happen to know any scientific literature that supports the use of copper wire?
So... it seems that it would work better if you froze it after the initial generation, rather than reboiling it with sulfuric acid. Dry ice is cheaper than sulfuric acid, and dioxane (as a mixture of the different isomers) freezes around 10 degrees celsius. Meaning it's probably possible to freeze it (especially with dry ice, at -70-ish celsius). If you can just freeze the dioxane/water azeotrope, it would greatly reduce the need for a full fractional distillation, and you could move directly to using sodium/potassium hydroxide for that final purification step.
I will try it now. For the most part, I haven't needed a lot of ether, so I don't mess with them. I've wanted to see if i could extract a beta-carbaline from some Oxalis for a while though now so this would be a good route for that.... I've found that a freezer is an often overlooked tool for the home chemist. I concentrate hydrogen peroxide from 3% to 12% using a normal freezer, and I've found that boric acid is much easier to get ahold of using a microwave and a fridge (borax + hydrochloric acid, on chilling, the boric acid falls out).
When i Try this i get a thick mass after putting in the sodium hydroxid. Is this because of not enought stirring ? I think i didnt stirr enough but i dont want to try againe until i know
because h2so4 is denser than ethylene glycol by density ,thats why naybe 40ml or 50ml of h2so4 is equal in wight by grams to 300 ml of mono etylene glycol *single)
about double the nice thing about this reaction is that its very robust, you can even use half the acid and it'll still work, it just produces a bit less product
the reaction is similar to formic acid ,but this one worked diffirently ,the second replinish of yesterdays distillation in the same flask ,i restaryed the reaction in the same flask ,addef the fresh 250ml and and another 20ml ,yesterday i used 600mm glycol ,and 55ml h2so4,but looks like today im distilling real dioxane ,yesterday the temp staryed 101 and went down to 94.6 c ,i pausef the reaction yesterday ,and resumed it ,the ladt boiling point was 95.6 ,but today afyrr i resumed it it started at 94c not for a long time ,but started getting lower ,so i sayed lets try replenish in the same flask ,and today im already distilledf 200ml ,the temp is steady at 101.1 101.0
I'll show how to make sodium magnesium oxide as well as isolate sodium metal itself in an upcoming video.
NurdRage Awesome!
Places reagents on old military mess tray *nice*
Are you sure you separated all of the methyldioxolane? That stuff boils at 82 C and is unaffected by base or sodium.
+bill smathers that's why it was distilled with acid
I know, but are you sure you got it all? Did you test by acidifying your purified dioxane and checking for discoloration? I'm not totally convinced that you got it all.
Well thank you TH-cam, for notifying me this video exists ~3 hours after I watched it.
I’m at 3 years...
@@loganthesaint I'm at 4 😂
Sir:
This is really good and commendable work. You have tied this together very nicely with Na metal production. In my eyes and opinion you have brought back the respect that the "Amateur Chemist" deserves. After all, some of the greatest discoveries were made by individuals investigating matter and nature just exactly like this. Bravo!
I've been watching your videos for a few months now, still don't understand anthing about what you are doing but I can't stop watching.
I just made some dioxane yesterday, but took the time to distill my ethylene glycol.
I still got the tarry side products in the initial reaction, but with all of the fluorescein and other additives removed, it was easy to wash out with common detergent. The process didn't smell nearly as bad, either.
I also used KOH to clean it, and NurdRage is definitely correct in that it is much easier to use a separatory funnel!
Sadly, it did not work to clean my amalgam. I'm guessing that I had too much unreacted NaOH in it, because it just made a gooey mess and etched my flask. The goo cleaned up easily enough with an acid wash, but the etching... Well, maybe it will mean that I don't need boiling chips in future projects. Bright side. Think bright side.
Well, well . . What d'ya know! A well written and constructive comment on TH-cam. Props to you eclectichoosier5474. Better seven years late than never! I am getting ready to make some sodium à la NurdRage using lab grade ethylene glycol and 98% sulfuric acid. Should be interesting-and fun. I am curious as to how much of that black goo I get. (I will also be going the potassium hydroxide and separatory funnel route. I'd like to avoid the etching issue.)
Love the amount of content produced recently! It doesn't need to be great, any kind of applied chemistry is good.
Edit: great in "greatly innovative" sense. Pyrimethamine, exotic thermite and stuff. Simple organic and inorganic stuff is also a lot of fun to watch.
thanks!
7:08 "But pure sodium metal is very hard to get for the armateur..." Thanks to your work hard work, this sentence hasn't aged well :)
Absolutely AWESOME Nurdrage! having tried the same thing with tetralin unsuccessfully, I am so happy to see a solvent that works!
A video for a cheap/good diy way to make formaldehyde would be a great video.
Sure it is pretty cheap in bulk, but there are always going to be ppl wanting to know how to make it in a SHTF situation
G'Day Nurdrage, I enjoy all your videos ,I have decided I must dollars to your patreon account, I feel you're description & mannerisms is what we need , I watched many your videos, this video & narration SPOT ON ,
Why thank you for your kind words!
Antifreeze tastes nice, my famous last words. Cos ethylene glycol is tasty but poisonous. 😋
But how do you get it to chooch if it's in a vice?
Use a Canadian peso to get the pixies dancing in the wall to fix it. But you'll need a rectumfryer to make sure the pixies are going one way.
Actually here is a tradition if we want to make water frezee proof we add just enough antifreeze to make it sweet. But you need to try only a little drop.
@NurdRage You could have used that acetaldehyde to make pentaerythritol. You just have to mix it with formaldehyde/paraformaldehyde, and add a bit of calcium hydroxide as catalyst.
... why do I watch every one of your videos.... I only did chemistry in high school so this goes right over my head
falconmick All the principles here are learnt in high school chemistry though? There isn't really anything that's university level.
Ryna Lau nope. This is organic chemistry, which is not usually taught in high school
but that was like 7-8 years ago!
Wtf it is inorganic, organic is taught in high school
Spunkey Doodle same, I've replaced all of that stuff with other stuff I've learnt that's more tailored for my field of work
It is not an urban legend at all! A decade ago some technician was trying to open a bottle without label and it blew on their hand. It wasn't the peroxide of dioxane, but it was a similar case, where an organic molecule formed an unstable peroxide. Fortunately they recovered completely.
Exactly! I'm explaining its NOT an urban legend! Light ethers like dioxane, THF and diethyl ether are especially dangerous as the newly exploded bottle has just created a giant mist of the solvent... which can itself ignite causing an even bigger explosion. Thus amateurs should be very careful of making and storing ethers.
I worked with Haz waste. We found a bottle of diisopropyl ether with big clear crystals in it. Boss took it to the railroad track and shot at it. Ka-boom and big fireball. Peroxide forming is tertiary hydrogen > secondary > primary order of ease of free radical reaction. So MTBE should be safe.
Electron donating groups like Oxygen and CH2 accelerate peroxide formation. Electron withdrawing groups like in Nitromethane don't form peroxides but then Nitromethane detonates without.
Not gonna lie.. When I first saw the title, it thought it read "make dioxin from antifreeze".. So glad I misread that.
it's not a NurdRage video if it doesn't have something carsonogenic
carcinogenic
Good one =D
It's not TH-cam if people don't misspell in every comment.
+antiswatt3 even argon
Argon37 is carcinogenic
It's interesting, since KOH is used to make liquid soap, and it remains liquidy, and NaOH is used to make hard soap, and it turns into a solid, seems it happens with this too.
The solution also turns a pretty purple color with KOH addition, which was quite unexpected.
Looking forward to the peroxides video as this is a big concern for me recently.
Could you use lithium or potassium metal in this? If so what if any changes would you need to make?
so when can we expect to see the pyrimethamine video?
yes.
brilliant as always. love how you are clear and explain it will detail. science excellent for scientific research and development and education purposes only. it's amazing how some just react slightly and some act violently. science. i wish i done more with it in school. then saying that i have learnt more through this excellent channel 👍
1,4-dioxane is used to shift the Schlenk equilibrium of Grignard reagents by precipitating out a salt of Mg(X_2)(dioxane_2) leaving you with Mg(R_2)
HELL YEAH YOU GOT A SPONSOR!!
Make nitrocubane!
Worked at University and was clearing out old Lab that had been un-used for 12 years.
Found partial jar of Picric acid and 1/2 empty bottle of Diethyl Ether on the same shelf.
The lid of the acid was rusted through and the Ether had a loose cork.
Yes, cork.
We called the Bomb Squad.
Very nice video and it's well explained, good job
You might be able to make dioxane...
But only Italians know how to make DioCane.
Nice video! I'm looking forward to your ether storage video. Peroxides in my ether are something that concern me too. Can you tell how much of a problem this is with MTBE?
keep up the awesome work, i love your videos.
When will we get the video about dealing with the peroxides in ether solutions?
i would like to see an alkaloid extraction from plant material :P
sure, any suggestions for particularly interesting ones? :)
I would like to expand to into natural product isolation.
On the less-illegal end of the alkaloid spectrum, caffeine could be fun.
NurdRage extracting oleandrin from oleander... But i think.. There is no oleander to get in your country
Nicotine would be interesting especially to the Ecig community.
Nutmeg seems to have a wide array of alkaloids to extract. I've heard of Orgo labs at universities doing extractions on it to for characterization.
Why is dioxane the major product and not the di/tri ethylenglycol?
Once you've joined two glycols the ends have a much higher probability finding each other than finding a third glycol molecule. So they cyclize at a higher rate, then the dioxane boils off and drives the reaction forward.
Edit: massively blundered the wording, hopefully fixed it now
Oh I see now, thank you!
I'm curious how you dispose of the side products like the acetaldehyde. Do you have a way to render them harmless, or do you use a disposal service?
Acetaldehyde is a useful chemical. Precursor to a lots of things.
Wayne Moore he said that he wouldn't use it. I theink that he'll polymerize it with NaOH and then pour it down the drain, since the polymer is harmless.
Hi enjoyed your video on hydrogen peroxide very much.i was wondering if you have a video around hydobromic acid.thanks for videos.
Hi!
I wanted to ask a few quick questions :)
are crown-ethers byproducts here? and if so, could you tweak the reaction to yield more of them or a specific one?
You could, in fact, by using a calcium based salt with a non nucleophilic anion (sulfates are generally, avoid chlorides and bromides) what happens is calcium really likes to coordinate oxygenated functions, and to complete it’s coordination sphere, it might coordinate 2,3 or 4 glycol molecules depending on concentration, by then dehydrating the glycols using the calcium as a template, you should be able to get crown ethers
Question: how much dioxane was produce relative to the starting materials?
How do you dispose of the dangerous unwanted byproducts?
Zach Fry I also would like to know this
Are you a cop? You are legally obligated to admit it if you are.
JK
Murad Beybalaev
No, I'm curious on how to safely dispose of the bi-products...I'm not a chemist or cop...
That was a joke. Don't mind me.
Zach Fry Dump it down the toilet. Give cancer to rats.
How do you dispose of all the waste chemicals that your experiments generate? Do you spend a lot of time working out a way to neutralise the waste to minimum toxicity?
Can i use the antifreeze with the methonel and ethylene glycol in it or does the methanol interfere with the reaction
after adding naoh ,i lift with a viscous suspension ,to redistill this oil ?
Can i do It by using break liquid instead of anti - freeze?
Can this dioxane stop time?
you commie
Lol
hi ! is it possible that we will see how to manage old ehter and peroxides ? its been a while from 2017 8:22
How does one properly dispose of the side products? Do you just take it somewhere
Will it be possible to dry it with molecular sieves A5, bought them by mistake. So would be nice to use them on something.
Marc Nielsen you really need A3 sieves to have the 3 ångstrom pores that will trap water and not the dioxane.
is a fractional distillation necessary or will a simple distillation suffice?
Would storage under an inert gas such as argon work to preserve solvents such as dioxane?
Can you put an oxygen scavenger sachet inside the top of a container of dioxane or ether to prolong the safe shelf life?
1,4 dioxane can be used to store potassium or produce it by reduction of KOH with Mg turnings ?
i love you. i love science.
would pumping in an inert gas such as nitrogen or argon work for preventing reaction over time?
Could you use triethylene glycol instead?
Did you ever make a video on dealing with peroxides in ether solutions? I have some peroxide test strips that I think should work as a quick qualitative test (they test for "peroxides", not specifically just hydrogen peroxide).
@NurdRage can i dry dioxane by refluxing it with Mg metal? Could i get anhydrous dioxane that way?
Could you make a video on making potassium perchlorate
When it comes to the part where you add sodium hydroxide to the dioxane/water azeotrope, does anyone know if I could instead "salt out" the water with NaCl, decant off the dioxane layer, and then add a small amount of NaOH to this to break down the impurities? The reason I ask is because I'd prefer to minimize the amount of NaOH I use and if something as cheap as table salt can accomplish the same thing (water removal) as base I'd rather use that. Thanks
Give it a try and see if it works. If it doesn't, you can filter off the NaCl and just go with NaOH. So there is no real downside (other than loss of excessively cheap NaCl)
Alright I'll give it a shot and report back with how it goes. I also considered separation by freezing (since dioxane has a melting point of 11.8°C vs water at 0°C) but figured things would get messy once removing from the fridge and putting the crystals on the pump. I ended up using cooling as a way of showing that I really did make some dioxane and that it was worthwhile to continue trying to purify my distillate. Thanks for the response!
realy your video are the best on the net thunkyou very mucth
is dioxane carcinogenic because of its flat structure like benzene?
Dioxane isn't flat. It has no pi-system. It adopts the normal chair-boat conformers of six membered rings.
oh okay. somebody was talking about how flat carbon is carcinogenic because it can separate dna like a knife. im assuming that its still a similar idea though.
and im assuming thisbalso means benzene is not flat
Benzene has a pi system above and below the ring. It is flat and inflexible with sp2 hybridisation of the bonds. Dioxane's bonds are sp3 hybridised and flexible.
Further the carcinogenicity of benzene is more than just its flatness. It is aromatic and able to pi stack with the aromatic DNA bases. This means it will stay within the DNA and deform it, interfering with the DNA replication machinery and causing errors in the replication. Also, when the body metabolizes benzene it makes products that react with DNA, basically destroying it. Plus, there are many other properties that make it a carcinogen.
I'm just wondering if you REALLY need the magnetic stirrer (obviously you need the heating) does the stirring make it better? (Please reply)
I wonder how much are recent videos related to oxalyl chloride fail.
I've made dioxane this summer and stored it under KOH, kept out of light, is it still safe to distill ?
Is there a method where ethylene glycol can be produced from glycerol
Can you separate the dioxane from the biproducts, (particularly the acetalaldehyde and maybe even the water) by freezing?
I'm thinking of how vinegar can be concentrated this way, while I'm watching my dioxane freeze in the receiving flask as I'm distilling it. The dioxane makes beautiful ice crystals at only 50°F, while water and acetalaldehyde require much lower temps to freeze. My graham condenser froze up solid because I let the cooling water get too cold.
Can it be done?
ya know, that's not a bad idea. I didn't try it because i already had sodium methods. But freezing does sound like an avenue worth researching.
A thought occurs, can you add an inert gas such as argon to your dioxane storage vessel to mitigate the creation of the peroxides and allow for storage over the longer term?
I've got plenty of Nitric acid and hydrochloric acid, can I use that instead of sulfuric acid?
best case scenario with nitric acid is a lot of toxic gases and your glassware scattered around the lab, worst case: there is no lab.
why is sodium metal hard to get for the ameture? cost? shipping restrictions?
skyhawk551 'hazardous' material and the shipping restrictions and the permits and what nots that extract money
I get the need for multiple income streams but almost EVERY youtube channel I follow has jumped on board this Great Courses affiliate program.
I become a patreon so I don't have to see ads, I signed up to youtubeRED so I don't have to see ads.
Sorry about that. If you'd like i can send back a full refund on patreon. Just send me a message through patreon. No hard feelings.
doesn't dioxane dissolve plastic into some sort of glue, so that you can seal cracks?
how do you safely dispose of the acetaldehyde?
Turn it in to chloral and react it with chlorobenzene to make DDT
Thank you very much!
What is the best way to dispose of old Dioxane when finished?
Burnt in a bonfire incerator over charchoal coals.
Shouldn't pretty much any acid work as a catalyst for the reaction?
Sulfuric acid works particularly well because it doesn't boil off and get lost.
CoxTH Phosphoric or polyphosphoric acid may be good as well. But they are somewhat more corrosive to glass. Shouldn't be a big problem at this temperature, though. Other acids are probably rather impractical for such reaction due to cost and availability (pTsOH), reactivity and low boiling point (HCl, HBr, HI), associated dangers (perchloric acid) or simply weakness of said acid (acetic, oxalic). In most cases including mentioned ones, there is a combination of factors making them unsuitable, for example acetic acid is weak, low boiling and forms esters.
Did he ever make that video on dealing with peroxides in ether solutions
Do you develop all these methods on your own, or do you use publications?
Great work, though I don't envy you having to clean all that glassware afterward. :)
Base bath
What was the final turnout of purified dioxane?
So if I take dioxane and spread it on a surface and let it dry, it will spontaneously explode?
People seem to go to extreme lengths in an attempt to get just a tiny amount of acetaldehyde.
If you have a look at for instance John Black super chemist, he has a 4 part video on obtaining it with a setup that makes the time machine in back to the future look simple & yet here is this what appears to be straight forward process producing oceans of it.
My question is, how sure are you that the byproduct mentioned is actually acetaldehyde?
hello, can you show,if its possible, if dioxane react with bromine to form dioxane dibromide (if exist) ?
I have two
1. in the distillation process I couldn't help but notice the two tubes connected to the connecting tube. what do they do and what would happen if I didn't have them
That tube is a condenser and those tubes carry water for cooling the hot vapors back into a liquid. If you didn't have the cooling water, your vapors would just be carried into the room or hood and float away. It's a still like what is used for moonshine.
is possible to obtain ethylen oxide from dioxane???
take it from a lab tech, even a piece of bare copper wire (5 cm long) is enough to take care of any peroxides, just leave in the bottom of the storage bottle....with store brought ether it is not an issue any more because all of that stuff is stabilized with a very small amount a reducing agent.
i heard about copper wire but could never find any literature supporting it. All i could find was comments on internet forums. Would you happen to know any scientific literature that supports the use of copper wire?
For long term storage, store over sodium and flush the bottle with argon.
So... it seems that it would work better if you froze it after the initial generation, rather than reboiling it with sulfuric acid. Dry ice is cheaper than sulfuric acid, and dioxane (as a mixture of the different isomers) freezes around 10 degrees celsius. Meaning it's probably possible to freeze it (especially with dry ice, at -70-ish celsius).
If you can just freeze the dioxane/water azeotrope, it would greatly reduce the need for a full fractional distillation, and you could move directly to using sodium/potassium hydroxide for that final purification step.
You tried it?
I will try it now. For the most part, I haven't needed a lot of ether, so I don't mess with them. I've wanted to see if i could extract a beta-carbaline from some Oxalis for a while though now so this would be a good route for that....
I've found that a freezer is an often overlooked tool for the home chemist. I concentrate hydrogen peroxide from 3% to 12% using a normal freezer, and I've found that boric acid is much easier to get ahold of using a microwave and a fridge (borax + hydrochloric acid, on chilling, the boric acid falls out).
what temp range is recommended to stop ,under 99 like 98 ,because Thier temp diffirence is so small ,87 c sounds wierd ,because dioxane boiks at 101
When i Try this i get a thick mass after putting in the sodium hydroxid. Is this because of not enought stirring ? I think i didnt stirr enough but i dont want to try againe until i know
I also got a thick mess.
I find potassium hydroxide to be MUCH better, if sodium hydroxide is causing too much trouble, try potassium hydroxide.
thank you very much i will try
This must be how you figured out that dioxane can be used as a solvent for sodium.
what university do you teach chemistry at?
Can i do this reaction with HCl?
because h2so4 is denser than ethylene glycol by density ,thats why naybe 40ml or 50ml of h2so4 is equal in wight by grams to 300 ml of mono etylene glycol *single)
can we make crown ethers in the same way?
No.
Is this a problem if I use 50% ethylene glycol antifreeze ? It's the best concentration that I can have
it'll work, you'll just make a lot less when it comes time to fractionally distill.
How do I dispose of my unneeded by-products and chems.
Can you make dibenzo-dioxin out of Dioxane?
can you use 5% sulfuric acid?
What?!! No Gary the bug??
The reincarnated Gary makes an appearance at 5:03.
I want to use diluted 37% H2SO4, how can I adjust the volume ?
about double
the nice thing about this reaction is that its very robust, you can even use half the acid and it'll still work, it just produces a bit less product
Thank's a lot !
Excellent .!!!
thank you
the reaction is similar to formic acid ,but this one worked diffirently ,the second replinish of yesterdays distillation in the same flask ,i restaryed the reaction in the same flask ,addef the fresh 250ml and and another 20ml ,yesterday i used 600mm glycol ,and 55ml h2so4,but looks like today im distilling real dioxane ,yesterday the temp staryed 101 and went down to 94.6 c ,i pausef the reaction yesterday ,and resumed it ,the ladt boiling point was 95.6 ,but today afyrr i resumed it it started at 94c not for a long time ,but started getting lower ,so i sayed lets try replenish in the same flask ,and today im already distilledf 200ml ,the temp is steady at 101.1 101.0
Whoa whoa whoa, i saw a side product that looked like a percuser i need for EMIM OAc