Sun Yat-sen - Lies - Extra History
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มิ.ย. 2024
- 📜 Writer Rob Rath talks about all the cool stories and facts we didn't get to cover in the Sun Yat-sen series.
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Miss an episode in our Sun Yat-sen Series?
Part 1 - • Sun Yat-sen - A Killin...
Part 2 - • Sun Yat-sen - A Kidnap...
Part 3 - • Sun Yat-sen - An Army ...
Part 4 - • Sun Yat-sen - A Bombin...
Part 5 - • Sun Yat-sen - A Dream ...
Series Wrap-up & Recommended Reading / Lies Episode - • Sun Yat-sen - Lies - E...
♪ "Across The Pacific" by Tiffany Roman - • ♫ "Across the Pacific"...
Thanks for the high-quality conversations & for following our community guidelines here: bit.ly/ECFansRNice
Artist: Ali R Thome I Writer: Robert Rath I Showrunner & Narrator: Matthew Krol I Editor: Joe Russell & Mac Owens I ♪ Music by Demetori: bit.ly/1EQA5N7 I
#ExtraHistory #SunYat-Sen #History
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Recommended reading - The Unfinished Revolution: Sun Yat-Sen and the Struggle for Modern China
3:42 - flag time!
7:59 - what are the Triads anyway?
16:13 - one man's legacy can be very malleable...
19:05 - movies depicting the Chinese Revolution
20:16 - the Walpole Connection TM
21: 35 - what's next on Extra History?
Extra Credits more extra history!
Last time tag is broken
21:35 thank me later
@@jas2494 thanks!
if anyone at extra credits reads this, make this show into a podcast version, that way it can be an hour long.
The movie "The Last emperor" finally makes sense.
Here is a joke we Chinese like to make about Guan Gong:
Guan Yu is a god of brotherhood and righteousness.
The triads worship him for brotherhood while the police worship for righteousness, so who should Guan Gong bestow his blessings upon?
Who?
@@basstedson famous chinese general from the 3 kingdoms era given deific status after his death.
The so called 'brotherhood' in triad worship of Guan Gong is more like eating raw cabbage ! This is what we Chinese cantonese truely experienced in real life.
None at all. It's all part of the triad and polices ' imaginations and wishful thinking and projections.
Wait, "The empire that sun never sets" is clearly a geographic descriptor. Never even thought of "it will never fall" interpretation. Every empire falls, and every empire is aware of that...
Could you add Irish countess markievicz in the topic poll? She’s such an interesting person with a long life, she was in the 1916 rising, all her friends were executed and ended up the first female MP in Britain and Ireland as well as the first female minister in modern Europe.
So cool!
That not cool, that's progressive. Progressive acts or figure can be cool (teddy Roosevelt, his daughter whose name eludes me, the welfare state, etc)
jacob levenson
True enough but I also referred to her being cool in general. And she really is! For example when her fellow revolutionaries were executed and she was spared for being a women she said "I do wish your lot had the decency to shoot me". Now that is a proper badass!
This has been my favorite biography so far!! Im so glad you are covering this. I never got to learn asian history at school , only european, and to find such remarkable person is amazing!! Thank you for your videos, I can tell you are very passionate about this!! :)
I'm looking forward to the Winged Hussars during The Siege of Vienna!
And I'm looking forward to the comments.
I'll start
WHEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED
Maybe I should start listening to Sabaton in preparation, despite not liking the genre.
@@narmonteam9417 HEADING DOWN THE MOUNTAIN SIDE THEY TURNED THE TIDE!
YES
I think Sun was forced to go to the Soviets because he was refused by Coolidge for loans or any other assistance.
Zhu Bajie tbh many of the communist parties of Asia only really became communist because the us refused to help them, think of Vietnam where the us aided France despite being anti imperialism therefore the only people the nationalists could go to were the soviets
The UK were considerably less than helpful, to put it mildly. I'd say he had no other option but the Soviets.
Yeah, but he wasn't some strong advocate of free trade or a particularly strong advocate of democracy. He set up a military dictatorship for Pete's sake.
@@shawnjavery As if the US cared about democracy when choosing allies 😂
*Mentally rips up the background in 3 seconds, while still appreciating the talk, feeling like a Holmes for a moment.* (Internal: Oh, that, with the that, and the that! The Lost Ark! The T-Rex with the top hat, I say! Poe and Poe! Who was the E5 with the boonie hat?) External: Great presentation, man. I especially like the information about the Triads, the Tongs, and Guan Yu. Thank you for the show.
For a man revered in both Chinas, this series is pretty well done.
Sabaton memes and an AOE II campaign.
You guys keep getting better and better.
What he’s saying in 2:14 is that Korea and Vietnam are an independent nation who serve as a tributary state to China, which means they pay tribute to China, who is the main big superpower of Asisa at that time, to seek protection and also adopting China’s sphere of influences.
though by this time they didnt pay tribute that regularly
@@jam8539 Well Korea was a puppet state of Japan and Vietnam was controlled by France.
By the start of the 1st Opium War few parts of East Asia were not corrupt although because of Mandate of Heaven the Qing were going to be corrupt sooner or latter.
Actually by that time Korea is more of a Japanese Protectorate, which means they are a sovereign nation, but they rely on foreign nation’s military for protection.
@@codyshi4743 ain't the increased Japanese influence happened after the Russo-Japanese war? and fully realised with the documents signed soon after (Illegal and void now) which allowed japanese in basically all matter of daily life, with the Korean emperor basically a figurehead.
(Would recommend this korean drama, Mr. Sunshine, though there are reports of the director distorting the history, i feel it's pretty accurate of things happened)
You mean East Asia
These episodes with details and corrections are important. Keep making them!
Yet another fun Lies episode. I always appreciate you being willing to highlight some mistakes.
You guys do great work! Love the Channel, thank you so much for all the hard work!
China is an amazing country, leaping forward at an unbelievable pace...
A couple examples I can think of off hand:
China for the, most part, leapfrogged right over telephone land lines. Something like 90% of Chinese people who have a cell phone NEVER HAD A LAND LINE. Phones prior to the (relatively) recent middle class explosion were for upper class.
People who visit mainland China are flabbergasted by the driving. I have to remind people that China, as a culture, HASN'T BEEN DRIVING AS LONG AS I HAVE.
A Chinese colleague that I worked with in Wuxi (55 years old) one day pointed out the 2-wheeled tractors that are quite prevalent at construction sites and with day laborers... "You see that tractor? One day when I was very young, the government came by and gave my village one of these. It was the first machine we had." This man was a software designer for a company that builds custom machine controls....
It still blows me away.
It's worth noting that the "empire on which the sun never sets" originally described the Spanish Empire, not the British.
I guess these successive empires just passed around rehashed slogan to use.. The current user would be USA eventhough with its debacle in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.
Qing teddy bear? okay sure.
Man, the Walpole moment was a real stretch this time
I’m also against the Qing dynasty, but the reason why they give up territory to foreign countries, because they don't want to lose all of China to other foreign countries, like say would you whether lose a piece of the pie or would you whether lose all of it. Still they should’ve have modernize more like Japan.
they were all around bad at governing at this point, i doubt there was any supreme plan to give a tiny bit until they recover(which they weren't gonna, given the total incompetence). for instance, in the sino-french war, the qing actual won on land(in Vietnam) yet in the peace settlement they gave France pretty much all they wanted except for indemnities. Who gives up influence and prestige in a war they , if not won then at least were favorable at the time to them?
Not exactly, the reason they gave up territory like Hong Kong, is to keep trade open, the Qing were more afraid of internal rebellion than foreign invasion. The Foreign countries can literally shut down trade, which happened anyways during the Japanese full scale invasion of China. If the Foreign countries shut down all trade to China at that time the Qing would have collapse, so it's a way of maintaining power, in hindsight invasion would have been unlikely, only Japan or Russia would have the logistic and needed troops to launch a full scale invasion of China, which was why the Qing would rather pay indemnities than suffer a total collapse to their Dynasty, which happened regardless.
The qing dynasty could not modernize because the Guangxi emperor was put under house arrest and poisoned by Empress dowager Cixi which halted the 100 days of reform that was supposed to update china.
The Sun Yatsen Memorial Hall in Guangzhou is pretty amazing too, both for learning history and for the architecture of the building.
I just want to say, you guys are always working so hard to represent the history the best way possible. We appreciate how you try your best to make it right. We also appreciate how you point out that theres more than one side, and theres myths and political skewing, and just plain wrong information floating around, clouding the events. Thank you. I dont think I could find a better more honest, less partisan representation of history, without tons of my own research. thank you.
Well done Rob! Thank you for making this interesting series of history piece. It will surely help non-chinese people understanding modern China history in an easy way.
We need more Latin American history, a few suggestions:
Manuel Rodriguez: James Bond of Chile
The Maracanazo: We haven't had sport history in this channel, haven't we?
The rise and fall of the Brazilian empire: Time to talk about the region's only monarchy and last slavery bastion
Cheshire1501 brazil had 2 emperors, actually
Cheshire1501 and pedro II hated slavery
I was delighted by your comments regarding my Great Uncle, Morris Cohen. Here in the UK, we have heard far too little about his time in China. I've been hoping to contact someone who can help us out a little. I'd be extremely relieved to clear up a couple of misconceptions and "unanswered" questions in return. Perhaps Rob would like to contact me.....?
can you do a napoleon extra history?
Yes please!
Y’all should do the Napoleonic wars as one of the extra history series.
1:10 there's one Memorial hall in Guangzhou, china. i went there way back then... like around 2000
Thank you for doing this! I'm from Nanjing China so this topic is really close to my heart :)
I'm from Honolulu and enjoyed the Hawaii easter eggs. Thanks!
Great series!
Make a video on Emperor Puyi- The last Emperor of China.
Thanks Rob!
Wow, please never stop!
Could you possibly do a video on Charlemagne and the Holy Roman Empire?
there's a good 10 minute history video on it
They did one on the fall of the Carolingian empire if you are interested.
@@neil7737 I went ahead and looked at it. It was good, but I would still like if they did one with a bit more detail on the Holy Roman Empire.
YEEESSSS!!!!! I LOVE JOAN D'ARC, I CANNOT WAIT FOR THOSE
SIEGE OF VIENNA?!?
(SABATON INTENSFIES)
We also have a small sun yat sen museum here in chicago
THEN THE WINGED HUSSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARS ARRIVED
It'd be interesting in my opinion to see a series about the period of chinese history that inspired "Romance of the Three Kingdoms", though that would probably be a massive series.
Extra history should also do a video on the Cairo Declaration during WW2.
Thank you! you have a beautiful beautiful mind.
Hi EC!
I'm woundering if you have thought of making a video of the battle of halbe and the halbepocket (WW2) :)
18:50 China History podcast has a great mini-series on Cohen. Brilliant story of how to blag your way to Mao and Chiang Kaishek's banquets after the civil war. It's a jaw-dropping life of a small figure from History.
I've heard a lot of different versions of this history.
From Taiwan when I was a student, from my friends in China, and from west society.
Which one is more reliable I wonder??
Do a video on the Boshin War ( a Civil War in Japan, that brought an end to the Tokugawa Shogunate, and the rise of the Japanese Empire).
M.C. Wright's book, "The T'ung-Chih Restoration," was fascinating, do you have any reservations, asides or comments to offer on it?
Could you do the Russo-Japanese war in 1904-1905 or the Skirmishes between the USSR and Japanese Empire in 1938 and 1939 please?
21:57 Siege of Vienna? *Siege of Vienna?!* THE WINGED HUSSARS SHALL RIDE AGAIN!
Wait did he just say happy new year? So cool
Happy New Year! I grew up in Hong Kong and agree with you about the Sun Yat-sen museum and trail. The museum tells a fascinating story of Sun and the trail a story of Hong Kong.
I wonder if you're able to provide write out the book list, movie list, and people's names you mentioned in this Lies episode? I'm not sure we can spell any of the proper names just by listening.
P.S. This Walpole connection is... weak. I'm disappointed!
I wonder if you awesome guys will do what i know loosly as 'the three kingdoms' of wei, wu and shu. Nice work an Sen btw, awesome story, but mad respect to correct yourselves. Thank you all for great work.
Sun Yat-sen is a complicated person to talk about because he created the modern day China...is it positive or negative? Well, that's up to everyone's interpretation. However for me after reading through thousands of pages materials and history that I don't believe Sun deserves the credits for everyone that gave to him, especially the title of Father of the Republic.
According to one of the most famous Chinese scholar at the time, Chang Tai-Yen, that three person deserve to be the president of the republic: Sung Chiao-jen because of his talent, Huang Hsing because of his contribution, and Wang Ching-wei because of his virtue. Sung Chiao-jen managed to establish the first constitution and the foundation of Kuomintang. Huang Hsing was the driven force behind the whole revolution and always on the frontline to lead the rebellion against Qing. Wang attempted to assassinate the prince regent and willing to sacrifice himself as a leading example for all revolutionaries. Sun was not known for anything to the real revolutionaries at the time.
According to the interview by The Times reporter George Morrison with then Beiyang vice president, Li Yuanhong, in 1911 that Li claimed: “...that people generally misinterpreted the importance of Sun’s effort during revolution. Sun did not have as much direct involvement as toward the revolution, the revolution was already over once Sun returned to China. I have only a vivid memory of Sun as I’ve never really heard of him before. The only thing that I can recall is some of his demagogue speeches but lack of any real political agenda. That is all I know about Sun, I think that Sun is just a visionary. As the southern (republic) party decided to form a government in Nanking as to influence the international supports, Sun has just landed in Shanghai then he became the president nominally. Many of the former revolutionary leaders are generally turn the presidency down with the reason as they believed the position is just temporary. Sun spent most of his times away from China that he has very little domestic relationships and since Sun is internationally well-known that he is perfect for the job. I’ve never heard of any real aids from Sun toward the revolutions, his reputations are largely fabricated…”
So, has Sun done anything toward the revolution? Yes, but at the same time that Sun has done as much damage toward the revolution as his effort for the revolution.
a lot of fun facts in this episode especially about once upon a time in china which is one of my favorite kung fu movies gonna re watch both now that I know who Sun Yat Sen is
I always enjoy people who cope to there misstakes
Fantastic to see the Irish potato famine just as I start my University module on it. Loving the Extra Mythology episodes my the way.
8:10 thanks Zoe. Congrats Rob, hope everything goes well with the baby!
you should do a video on the dutch revolution
I don't think using the modern flag of countries which aren't the focus is a problem.
Can you guys do India Partition on extra history?
hey extra credits you should do a series on one of the many Chinese dynasties
Do the Triple Allience War
Is the episode on the Battle of Britain ever coming?
I hope they do Pu Yi, the Last Emperor or Chiang Kaishek, the Generalissimo
Dear extra history, could you please do a bit more European history? I loved the seminal tragedy series
I don’t know how much you’d be able to do on her, but an episode on Catherine DeMedici would be cool.
Make a video about the philippine revolution
Hi I was wandering whats the name of the book that's on the table?
Two major pronunciation mistakes:
Yuan (元) is pronounced as one syllable: "ywan" rhyming with 'ban', 'man', 'can', 'ran', 'flan', etc. The two syllable pronunciation is a very common mispronunciation that I believe has been popularized by works based on the _Romance of the Three Kingdoms_ such as _Dynasty Warriors_
The ⟨j⟩ in Beijing is pronounced nearly identically to the English ⟨j⟩ and is identical to the Japanese ⟨j⟩. The French ⟨j⟩ as in _vision_ that you guys use to pronounce it throughout the series is a very common hypercorrection. Simply using the English ⟨j⟩ would be considered a correct, even if not exact, pronunciation by most native Chinese-speakers while the French ⟨j⟩ is widely regarded as a blatant error.
I was pleased that you guys used a more correct even if still not entirely accurate pronunciation of Sun. I would have preferred if you guys had just pronounced Sun Yat-sen the proper Cantonese way which is 'syuun yuht-seen' which has no sounds foreign to English except that the ⟨t⟩ is unreleased.
I know that one should generally be understanding about mispronunciations, but in the case of Yuan and Beijing where the correct pronunciations do not really constitute sounds foreign to English, one cannot overlook them as errors.
Oh shit, I forgot to vote in the last poll! Bismarck part II almost lost by only ONE vote instead of just two 😆
8:40 interesting detail on GuanYu statue
people thought that the sun not setting on the empire was about it lasting forever?
please do the history of san martin
>Siege of Vienna is next
>Winged Hussar noises intensity
Walpole is EVERYWHERE
Paul A. Walpole is more everywhere than Kevin Bacon
And anywhere. ;)
I assume that's an American misconception about "the sun never sets on the British Empire"? I'm British and I've only ever heard it used to describe the scope of the British Empire, because of the history of Empire, like with Rome, they're usually seen quite fatalistically. Though it's notable that the saying still really holds true, due to the tiny holdings we still control. Obviously we don't call them "Empire" anymore, they're British Overseas Territories, but a rose by any other name...
I'll never be able to afford the monthly patreon to suggest new videos. However, I'll mention the ones I'd love to see here:
The Battle of New Orleans, or at least a series following Jean Laffite the Pirate King. The story of the USS William D. Porter, or the Baker Street Irregulars. Are there any you'd like to see?
Best Like to Dislike ratio ever.
How come 3 of the 4 upcoming series are Late Medieval?
Could you do Cleopatra or Julius ceaser?
Nice easter egg!
I'd love to see a video on the banana republics
Siege of Viena.
Indy neidell had a quote
The Autrian empire was under a siege
Fun fact : An earthquake just happened after I press the video
The thing with the flags is totally correct, the flag of the united states otherwise needed to be with less stars? because of hawaii joined the us in the 50s. All this can be a huge mess
You should do a spin off of joan d'arc covering gilles de rais de leval who is probably the first convicted serial killer.
Sadly I don’t have the money to become a Patreon supporter and vote, but I would love if you did the 3 kingdoms period of Chinese history, the romance of the 3 kingdoms has so much going on and is in my mind really important to modern China, but that’s just me, hope you listen to this or see it!
I protect my self from lies by not learning anything
As a non native speaker of the english language i always hear: Robert Walpole and i think about what does the first prime minister of england who is around 150 years dead to this time has something to do with it :D
Extra History, can we get the construction of the transcontinental railways? (Union Pacific and Central Pacific, Canadian Pacific, and Trans-Siberian) I think they represent some of the greatest engineering marvels and moral failings in the modern age.
Make a vid on Philippines war of independence
I bet you won't guess who shows up at the end of th...
It was Walpole, Walpole gets mentioned at the end.
Between the Vietnam war, Civil War, or Iraqi Freedom, which one would you do an Extra History episode about?
I read that book its good
Can u do the history of this channel?
Alright Extra Credits, I have a suggestion for fixing flags where you want to use the wrong one to avoid confusion. make an unlisted couple second footnote video, and stick a link in the description to those videos in order. that way you can use the correct flags, and anyone who is confused by it can check the footnote link and get a little bit of, (pardon the pun) extra history.
Where can I get your aloha
Yay
I'd probably watch a video on the monarchies' side.
Please feature "Dr. Jose Rizal"