Wait: Are Stick-Fighting, Daggers, and Sword-And-Buckler... All the Same?
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This feels more like coordinating for a movie than learning how to fight.
I got that as soon as they started doing the “hit hit bounce back” bit. What happened to working the bind, feeling if they go soft or hard? There was no “if he does this you do this” it was all “you two do this then this then this”.
@@Ebolson1019 It's a form, like the kata that show up in a lot of eastern martial arts. You start from practicing forms to build up the muscle memory so when in the actual fight you can put your thoughts fully on strategy and reading your opponent rather than remembering how to do each individual move. Building a system on counters and minutiae vs simple building blocks that can be adapted based on the scenario. Both valid ways to do it, with pros and cons to each. Personally, I'm a fan of the latter as it's easier to learn and once you have the basics down you kinda have half of the equation already, but if you have the time and dedication to fully master and hone your craft, the former system might be better as you'll have definitive answers to every situation instead of having to figure it out in the moment.
@@jacobbissey9311 i would say that muscle memory from a kata is the one thing you DONT want to have in a real fight.....
if that triggers during a fight where you want/need to block in a diffent position than what comes up in your kata you will have your body default to the kata move and potentially miss an incoming blow completely.
@@TheScarvig How is that different than preparing a different counter in the other system? I would rather my body be able to move instinctively, and it's a lot easier to learn a simple set of basic moves that are broadly applicable than specific counters for all the minute possibilities
This is a drill.
Reason I like sticks in combat is because 1. it's easier to hit with (no need for edge alignment), 2. It's less messy, 3. If you're not looking to kill someone, a stick is a great way to KO, 4. It's usually legal to have (for those of us living in countries where certain weapons or forms of self-defence are illegal).
truth
Also, if you need to kill, sticks CAN still do that. I don't know why you would *need* to, but that's still an option.
The most important part is you can cut yourself with a stick. I can barely avoid cutting myself when I shave, so definitely a stick for me.
@@AlanRodriguez711 I’ve definitely cut myself on some sharp Fing sticks before but I agree, it’s a lot more difficult to do on accident.
5) you're more likely to use a stick than you are a blade owing to the ramifications behind what using a blade could actually result in (see, soldiers firing over the heads of combattants in WWI & WWII as the thought of killing is generally to much for a standard person to process)
You guys should do an episode on EDC Knives, different deployments, lock types, blade shapes, typical uses for a knife as an everyday carry
would for sure have to be an over hour long ep
@@shhs1227 why not just a series?
Can they monetize that though?
i think they already did
I'm sure HEMA Anthony would have smth to say about all this
I don't mean to hate on the episode, but I think for me the issue I felt, it was never really demonstrated how this approach to fighting really translates to an actual fight rather then choregraphed, mirrored moves. I really appreciated with the historical weapons guild that they explained the idea of measuring how many steps are between you and your opponent and what options open up based on both combatants current positions. All of it made sense, and it was clear how you could use those fundamentals in a real fight even if the other person didn't play by the same rules, but this really didn't feel like it moved to anything practical since if you were to fight someone who absolutely disregarded the system, you'd be at a total loss. There wasn't ever a fall back or how to maintain a neutral position explained in this video.
much like their other Bladed Martials Art videos, they barely go into the Real Fight Scenario. Prolly has to do with their other video shoot schedule. which is sad, but I get it.
Tbh this is just a drill to build up muscle memory for the motions, sparring is where you learn proper timing, delivery and overcome the fear of the weapon hitting you, so drills are to keep the movements sharp and clear while sparring is where you actually put that muscle memory into action.
When looking at each of the different Filipino arts, I've kinda seen that there are differences between Kali, Arnis, and Escrima but as things get homogenized over time these influences are sorta diluted out. The way I've seen it is this: Kali is more of the traditional, guerilla art with close combat and control. Arnis seems to be influenced by traditional Spanish "knights", with the armor and shield, spear work. Kinda like if Kali took some of the interesting bits of the old Spanish warriors (Like think Kali + HEMA). Look closely at Balintiwak and how moves are executed, it behaves and looks different than, say, Pekiti Tersia or Doces Pares. Lastly with Escrima being influenced by the old fencing styles of one sword, sword and dagger, sword and buckler. There is a lot more mobility and lunging involved here too. None of them are better than the other, since they all seem built upon a common form, they just established themselves are valid and effective arts even with influences. The Filipinos have done a great job keeping these arts alive and healthy over the centuries.
@Brass Knuckles same thing in Puerto Rican machete fighting, its because of the similar weapons and how our bodies are made to function better with certain movements
I think you guys should touchback on archery for the people. I keep converting die-hard gun-toting folks into archers. It's nice since we can't have suppressors out here. That and ammo prices have been cray for a while. At least you can get your arrow back and reuse it. 🤙🏾
16 minutes in and jason is instictively pointing the knife at the trainers face, someone likes knives.
Yay! More fight club training!
Don't talk about it!
@@shawn55648 oops
More like fighting, with a club, training. 😆🤙🏾
As somebody who does practice under Filipino Martial arts, there is some validity to Guro Larry’s teachings. Although, I’m questioning the way he’s teaching it to Brian and Jason. Of course this does come with a couple caveats. Guro Larry is, to my understanding, under a different lineage than mine. Yes, there will be overlaps in certain aspects, yet there will also be differences in others. I’m commenting based off of my experience, my education, my training, and what I have done. Different people have different experiences, therefore different opinions are applied here. Also, nothing that I say should be taken as a stone tablet of the almighty final word of anything ever. Please take this comment with a grain of salt. Anyways, back to the original topic at hand. It seems a little too awkward for a 5 hit pattern. My understanding is Guro Larry is teaching a 5 hit double stick sinawali cycle. Honestly, I would’ve started them with a 6 hit or 4 hit sinawali cycle. It’s simpler to understand the rudimentary concepts of a stick. There is also validity to mixing weapons. I.e. Spear and stick, spear and dagger, stick and dagger, Shield and staff, etc. For context, my lineage is under Estalilla Eskrima Kabaroan. I personally believe Guro Larry has his experience to be valid and his knowledge from this video lines up with some stuff that I know. What he taught today was unorthodox to me, but works for the video.
This instructor is so cool, oh my god. He's so chill and positive. I've never seen an instructor as in tune with the notion of teaching.
I can’t sit through this video, but I’m commenting so MR still gets the interaction they deserve for the hard work they put in
Jason Murphy: Naturally Awesome!
It’d be so cool if you guys could get Doug Marcaida to come on for another episode like this one day!
An actual Filipino guro.
My main thing with this episode is: What use is a shield if you're holding it to the side or behind you? In a known kata it works but in a real fight you are wide open.
I'm thinking the point is at any time in an exchange you could be caught off guard, so if it's behind you at least it's in a loaded position for a strike.
The use is that it's still passive defense from arrows or blows coming in from that angle that you can't see. A shield is far more than just an active blocking surface.
This whole thing is wierd don't bother rationalising
@@TheRealAlpha2 You aren't caught off guard if you're using your shield... to guard. Which is kind of the point.
I think this was essentially a crash course on fighting with any weapons, that just wasn't communicated great. Depending on what weapon or weapons you have you are going to fight differently. But, this was just a very general introduction to positions and attacks from them (they covered basically no defense.)
Feet, Brian, feet! Every time you struggle in a video like this it's because you're over reaching! Great video by the way!
I'm not trying to troll but between this and the episode about using straws as a weapon I'm really questioning the practicality of the guro's teachings...I've thought that every other martial arts/melee instructor they have brought in has been pretty legit until now. I'm happy to listen to arguments against my position though, maybe I'm missing something.
I agree with the improvised weapons assessment. However I think this is probably genuine martial arts from that region. You have to keep in mind that most people deem Asian weapon fighting impractical.
I agree with you on the improvised weapons bit. However, arnis is a valid martial art - except what Brian and Jason did here is foundational stuff that Filipino kids learn in gym class. When a real arnis practitioner goes full tilt, it looks scary and effective: th-cam.com/video/rRZ5z5Bcb4M/w-d-xo.html
you're not missing anything. these people are clowns. for some reason everyone thinks that you need to be 'qualified' to lease a gym. if this were the case, we wouldn't have thousands of bullshido masters teaching the impressionable how to subdue attackers with psychic combat.
they rent out a building to play with blunted weapons. _that's it._ perfectly fine, until you start blowing smoke out of your ass talking about how efficient flailing around with two sticks can be.
@@tytendo64 "You have to keep in mind that most people deem Asian weapon fighting impractical."
what on _Earth_ are you talking about? Chinese, Japanese, and Mongolian martial arts are some of the most revered styles of martial arts on the planet - _especially_ Japanese, thanks to weeb culture.
there may be a consensus about the impracticality of traditional _Filipino_ martial arts specifically, but there'd be a reason for that. the reason is that _traditional_ Filipino martial arts is not a suitable response to the sort of combat that they were experiencing during colonial and pre-colonial eras. you might be surprised to learn that the Filipinos phased this style of combat out _themselves_ and that people in the Philippines used spears, swords, and shields during the middle ages just like everyone else. they weren't some tribal culture with Zulu technology.
@@TeddyGNOP Exhibit A th-cam.com/video/kEsYy53Nx-4/w-d-xo.html . This is a tournament that was held where people who learned HEMA fought against people who learned some of the Asian weapon fighting styles. if you watch the video the people who learned HEMA won every time.
Stick is a modular weapon. Add:
Pointy = spear
Heavy = hammer
Wedge = axe
Short blade = glave
String + tiny pointy sticks = bow and arrows
It's so nice watching the boys play with their nerf
There are... So many issues with this that I can't even name them all. But I can certainly try. This is not meant for self defense. This is movie choreography. Aiming both of your weapons behind you away from your opponent, flailing your shield around as if it's a weapon, purposefully stabbing with a knife with the intent to miss? I'm trying not to be too harsh but this is awful advice. I think a few quotes from this video can help demonstrate my point.
9:59 "It's so instinctual to just like- it's right there." And Jason is absolutely right. The opponent as both weapons pointing away from you and his torso is entirely exposed, but he's being told to aim for the weapon instead of the opponent. And that's the case for most of this video. They're encouraged to aim at the weapon, or even in the case of the knife and shield, swing at open air rather than actually try to make contact with their opponent.
12:04 "If it was real and you messed up you just cut his arm off." Except that should be the goal, should it not? To actually hit the opponent? I can understand building technique, but they are actively being discouraged from making contact with the opponent and told they should only be aiming for their weapon. Why is this?
18:45 "I feel like I'm in one of those cool movies now." And there it is. This is just bad movie fight choreography. The kind of bad choreography where both combatants are aiming for each other's weapons instead of bodies, and opting to stab at the air rather than make contact because it looks cool. And this is only scratching the surface. Using your shield as a weapon while keeping your actual weapon behind you. And this is only with a rudimentary understanding of historical martial arts. I'm not even bringing up some of the stance or balance issues, nor turning your back to the opponent because I can't tell if that's them doing it wrong or being taught wrong and I don't want to misattribute the blame. But after two videos of Martial Way I had to say something.
And because I'm too lazy to go back and comment on an old video I'll say this here: A raw sweet potato is not remotely similar to human skin, and a plastic straw will do nothing to a person unless they are stabbed in the eye with it. And if credit cards could cut off swaths of flesh like a sharpened knife they would be altered or rounded off to avoid that danger. Okay, rant over.
Soooo when do we see Anthony from the Austin Historical Weapons Guild vs Guro Larry from Marital Way Legacy in an all out weapons battle hmmmmm?
It just looks so unnatural, like the way you tuck one arm under the other in chambered position feels like you're just restricting movement of that arm, but also I'm not the material art expert, so I've got no idea what I'm talking about haha
You don't want to hold a sharp sword right next to your brachial artery? What are you, chicken?
I bet half the time during this shoot Jason is just thinking "lightsaberlightsaberlightsaber." I know he is because I am, too.
We now want a video against a safety pin or a straw
_snort._
my money's on the credit card.
Jason was really comfortable in this one. It has that touch of fantasy that he just worked and enjoyed.
You finally did Eskrima, but totally missed the opportunity to get practitioners from PTK (Petiki Tirsia Kali) or Inosanto Kali.
great episode, would love to see you guys try some african stick, sword, or spear fighting. lots of these movements reminded me of Al Matreg
Definitely! If I remember correctly, Da'mon Stith is also in the Austin area.
@@SevenStarsandSevenStones He is! I'll try to get them all in touch. Da'Mon is a lot of fun.
So the video of Anthony from AHWG kicking Larry's ass in a freestyle sword fight is coming when?
Granted, I'm coming at this from a HEMA background, but there are so many positions here that look awkward (twisted up), dangerous (potentially sharp sword right next to your own brachial artery), or just impractical (both weapons held behind you with the opponent in front) that I can't picture them working outside of a rehearsed kata.
Dude, I'm still waiting for an Anthony vs the Shaolin staff guy match!
I'll be honest: I wasn't expecting another movie fight choreography episode.
glad i didn't watch this movie. i'd have to request a refund.
You guys should do boxing, even tho I don't like what you're being taught by Guru, getting some better feet movement would improve on every martial art you guys do onwards
I find this really awkward. When I was learning martial arts one of the fundamentals we learned was to never drop your guard, but here they’re preaching having *both* weapons pointed backward as good technique.
I’ve not learned eskrima before personally, so maybe there’s some other advantage to it, but from what I do know, I’d like to keep at least one of the sticks pointed forward at all times.
Also did anyone else notice that Guru Larry screwed up his own knife terminology? He described the grip styles as “heaven” and “earth” grip and then proceeded to say they were using the earth grip while holding the knife with a heaven grip. 14:30
I can see your point though I will chalk that up to meaning it'd be less ideal in a mixed martial arts tournament than anything serious. The purpose of having the weapon pointed back is as a guard, lending some power and momentum to your next swing out but also being ready to block any incoming.
And misspeaks happen. I personally stutter, I wouldn't be able to say half the stuff he said correctly
What's being shown in the video is pretty much the "basic of basics" as well as showing the proof of concept of how the basic movements can translate into different weapons.
While of course if you had a bladed weapon, having a guard with one pointing at the opponent is a good idea, but with a stick it's more of a liability for being grabbed, unlike with a blade. There's also the issue of getting weapons tangled up and needing space to swing them effectively without one getting in the way of the other when you have two weapons of the same length. I'm sure in more advanced lessons there will be an emphasis with having a guard in front of you at all times showing the specifics and nuances and situational uses.
Though remember even in HEMA the wrath guard from german longsword disciplines is a type of guard that's very effective and well documented even though it has the tip of the blade pointing backwards, but you're poised to deliver a strong and fast cut in that position.
Though in the end it's always down to the practitioner and what they find is most effective for them because as any martial artist worth their salt knows there's no such thing as a single be all end all technique otherwise it would've been invented hundreds of years ago and no one else would bother doing anything else if it were that perfect
@@dawnthegoblin and to add to this, some people seem to forget that in "real" flights they would be swinging sharp bladed daggers
Short answer = Yes
Long answer = Yes, and they always were
"Always has been." _(cocks gun)_
The opening spar made me realize this is the General Grievous episode.
There is certainly a lot of overlap. Some specifics will differ, but a lot of fighting traditions with weapons of about the same length will have the same, or very similar, fundamentals. Quaterstaff and two-handed sword have a lot of quite similar moves, for another example, even though they are quite different weapons and so will naturally have some different approaches.
There are only so many ways to swing a weapon in a way that is both effective and practical.
Modern rough mauy Thai
This was dope. I'm hoping for a Kendo episode soon
I like making more flimsy training swords like this for like $3 a piece at the dollar store this time of year. A pool noodle, a broom stick, and some tape to hold it together. It's not pretty but it's cheap and fun
Golf club, but cut off the head, wrapped in pipe insulation. Way better.
I prefer 1/2" pvc pipe for weight. Otherwise I feel like I'm waving a wand, not a dagger or machete.
Time to join a LARP
tbh the why techniques overlap is the same reason striking in taekwaendo, kickboxing, muay thai, karate, etc etc are almost the same in principals and strategies depening on ruleset but executed with other intentions. it all ties together in a pool of ass kicking martial arts
I wanna see these guys fight the Austin Historical Weapons Guild
Shad is proud.
THE STICK!
A masked crew with unmasked talent gives me Met Gala vibes.
Yo Brian....definitely spend some time with Larry, a cigar, and a nice drink.....you will not regret it
9:55 Brian's not stepping forward with his left. He seems to do this a lot in other videos too.
Let's go rogues!! Do I hear Anthony being called
Nope but guru Larry's cool too
They are playing with tempo, but they have crap for distance.
I keep thinking you're saying Guru Larry and I keep expecting Larry Bundy Jr to walk out
Without watching the episode "Yes, if you can do it with a stick, you can do it with a knife, if you can do it with a knife, you can do it with a hand".
Days w/out injury(🤔DWI?): Nice
Important thing to remember: When swordfighting in the shower, he who strikes first wins.
I'm imagining lightsaber sounds as I watch this
christ, it's the Martial Way clowns again. i hope they don't have too many of these in the pipe.
the straw episode was just ridiculous, this is a little upsetting. we fought with melee weapons for _thousands of years_ before the advent of firearms. believe it or not, some of the martial artists of the time took it _very_ seriously, they didn't just _practice_ the art of combat, they _studied_ it. they wrote books that survived thousands of years - they understood the subject well enough to put it in writing and illustrations that could be used to effectively teach _laymen._ not just laymen of the time either, but laymen hundreds of years later in a world where people haven't used swords and spears in living memory.
for thousands of years we collectively assembled a keen understanding of martial arts - then the Martial Way circus comes to town 200 years after we stopped using melee weapons in open combat and tells everyone that waving around two 1lb sticks in an disoriented and haphazard manner is just as good as a sword and shield - and everyone believes them because these they leased a gym and folks think that gives them the authority discuss self defense seriously lol
i miss Austin Historical Weapons. they were teaching y'all the good shit.
I came looking for this exact comment. I love MR, but I can’t force myself to sit through Martial Way instruction, this guy gives off the same energy as a Buzzfeed reporter. The “clickbait” of the martial arts world. The Austin Historical Weapons Guild is a once in a lifetime business. They’re educated, practiced, and passionate about the dozens of crafts they instruct, and it’s just a cherry on top that they happen to be great people on top of it. Hell, the Jake Gyllenhaal lookalike could teach me how to hold a spoon when I eat my cereal and I’d pay him for the honor of apprenticing a true master
@@RizzRiderEUC "The Austin Historical Weapons Guild is a once in a lifetime business."
i might be about to rock your world - but HEMA clubs are all over the place. might even be one near you. check out HEMA Alliance, they've got a location finder on the site. not that Austin Historical isn't one of my favorites, just wanted to throw that out there if you didn't happen to know about it.
This how riot shield and kali stick players train in warzone
Me (who hasn’t watched the video yet): “well of course. This is why a good poke arm is superior”
stick fight! stick fight! stick fight! stick fight! stick fight!
Wait but why is no one making the "vwoom vwoom" sounds?
Anyone else going to the founders club picnic?
Where can I get the head/face protection?
rogue nation GANGin up like sheesh
14:30 He totally fucked that up.
I think Jason atleast noticed lol but didnt say anything
Anyone complaining should look up real Kali sparring. This is just super basic basic basic techniques to learn muscle memory.
God it's like everyone is expecting them to go off fighting 1v1 sparring with sticks in less than an hour or so of learning.
Injury counter blazin' ;)
Martial Way Legacy? Legacy. What is a legacy? It's planting seeds in a garden you never get to see.
3
Beatsaber irl
slayer
Dear Brian and Jason, this is me official applying for the position of live Foley artist for your shoots. I'm good at sounds. If interested, hmu
I feel like yall went to film school. Production is top notch but you cut waaay too much during fight scenes. Especially in demonstrational videos I think it would benefit the viewer to have an uninterrupted view of limb movement
Crazy random guess: nah
Anyone else get Kingdom Hearts 2 Valor Form vibes here?
Can't say I've been this early before
....wait...I know that guy.
I worked with Larry and his stunt team on the first of the Washington's Armor trilogy. Super excited for the battle of fort necessity with them
my opinion can't speak for everyone. the thing with Asian martial arts is most of them look cooler but are less practical. HEMA on the other hand seems to be more practical. if you watch this video and compare it to the ones where they do HEMA you can see in HEMA you try to hit the person directly. in this it's like sword fighting as a kid where you are attacking the weapon. This is not to belittle this, it still looks pretty cool. But I just think it's impractical.
I agree, right at the start with the first “move” Brian asks what he’s trying to do, block, bind, deflect, etc and Guru just says it’s could be anything and had them practice hitting each other’s weapon. I liked in the ahwg stuff when they were called out for attacking the weapon and told to ignore it and got for the body.
Can’t speak on its effectiveness in REAL combat, but it works great against people using European martial arts-inspired styles in LARP.
(My group has a majority of people who base their styles off real ones. Note I’m saying BASE off of. Because using real styles can put you at a disadvantage in LARP)
Makes Jun
We need more bjj videos next time y’all should just take a class for 20-30 minutes then roll until the end
You guys should do better thumbnails I'm pretty sure your great videos would get more views
I can't watch the videos here after that one with the straw... I mean seriously.
That did wash away his credibility for a lot of people
swords are just sharp sticks when you think about it
Oof... This was rough to watch. Why are you folks stepping back from actual martially sound weapon systems to slap sticks and "lethal" straws.
You can kill somebody with a stick
Stick fighting IS martially sound. They're basically clubs or batons, and you can kill someone with a decently sized stick if you go for the head.
Never underestimate a big stick. And then spears are just sticks with a pointy end.
@@MGlBlaze I assure you, what they are teaching there will not help you fight with a spear. Their entire argument is that these sticks are good for teaching how to use other weapons.
What they are doing will get you killed in a knife fight, it will get you killed in a sword fight, and it will get you killed in a pole arm fight. Even with a stick, turning the weapon away and exposing your arm is a quick way to get your elbow, wrist, and hand broken by your opponents big stick.
Arnis is actually a good martial art. But this… this ain’t it, I’m sorry to say. Like some others are saying, this is more movie choreography than actual martial arts
You guys need to slow down and actually listen to the instructors. Feels disrespectful for yall to rush through things like you did.
For those times when your stickfighting someone...
No, they aren't the same... but they are each effective in their own ways when used by a trained individual. Check out the U.S. military training videos from back in the 40s
Did u not watch the video bro? lol
You prolly liked ur on comment
The sequence shown is just the most basic and foundational movement, which generally translates closely in many weapons. It's a training aid to build up coordination and comfort in those basic movements. Once a foundation is established that's when weapon specific techniques come into play.
It also gets rid of the tunnel vision one gets when "Oh no I've only trained in using a knife but I only got a stick! What do I do?!" And just going full ape and panicking. Obviously it's not ideal, but at the very least you got something instead of nothing
@@bowow0807 Very good points. With even a little training, just a club become quite a usable weapon.
@@james0000 clubs can be really strong even without training. Ever been hit in the head with a baseball bat at full force? That shit can easily rattle your brain
@@tdoyr2119 Nope, luckily I have not. I have had a broken pinky from being attacked with a baseball bat though. Shattered it, they stopped counting the pieces after 90. Aside from being mis-shaped, still works though :) (if you consider a pinky as something that does much work, lol) I think we are actually in agreement though and you misunderstood what I was saying, I'll take fault for that even though a baseball bat isn't exactly a club, it's much more balances and advanced.
First
Technically second
🏆
I liked the video and I like eskrima but I don't really like a white looking guy teaching a historical Filipino martial art in such a sterile looking setup. It makes me feel like tge dentist is appropriating others cultures.
This guy is so hard to watch
Srsly seems like the instructor is just making this crap up as he goes lol.
This is so stupid