Probably because the mac being the "host" knows that it's going to DOS, while the DOS installation (or Windows for that matter) is the "guest" and has no knowledge of there being a mac.
CLUT (Color Look Up Table) fading was extremely common on Mac OS back in the days especially when switching between resolutions (commonly done when going between windowed or fullscreen mode).
Not particularly. Apple was like that from the start. Or rather, Macintosh was. The Apple II series was far more sane... Too bad it was basically killed deliberately. The IIGS was the last of it's kind, and to top it off it was deliberately gimped to make the Mac look better. It could've had an 8 mhz CPU (65816's were available at that speed back then), but no. It got roughly 2.6 mhz. Of course, with a typical Apple GUI, full colour display with some interesting and powerful capabilities, advanced 8 channel sound capabilities, 16 bit CPU, and full backwards compatibility, if it also had a fast CPU it would've made the black and white mac with limited audio abilities look very bad... Did I mention it was cheaper too? Yeah... No wonder they killed it. XD
@@KuraIthys You know I totally forgot about the Performa my family had - only one adp port IIRC but it let you daisy chain stuff together like a mouse and joystick....problem was that the passthrough port was on the bottom of the keyboard so stuff got weird quick
I remember this for a really specific reason - my mom was a University student at the time and she was supposed to get one of these. She had a grant for it. However when we took delivery, they had switched it out for a regular apple computer (whatever the top of the line was, it was actually a better Mac if I remember right). She ended up having to settle but the reason she needed both was because as an archaeology student, her software needs were spread across both Mac and DOS. She ended up buying a seperate PC to do what she needed. I've always been curious as to what this was actually like. Seeing the limitations, I wonder if it would have even been powerful enough to run her software.
We had a lab of Pentiums, 486s and Mac DOS compatibles in uni. I was an Apple guy, so I usually sat at one of those Macs. But that part of the lab was always empty, given it was pretty slow for the DOS / Windows side of things. I can confirm it was a bit sluggish.
That may well be why the swap happened. Whoever made the decision on which one to buy might have finally tested it and realized just how badly it underperformed.
My highschool had one of these! People would install heaps of games on the DOS side, and would switch back to the Mac OS when the teacher walked on by. I remember sneaking into the computer lab at lunchtime to play Raptor Call of the Shadows on this beast.
My high school computer programming teacher didn't care if we played games. Our grades were based on turning in assignments. In that sense he operated more like a college teacher would, it was up to us to do the work before we hopped into the LAN gaming session.
Other way around for me. Marathon Infinity, Prime Target and Escape Velocity were my jam and they weren't on PC. Golden age of Mac gaming. I did dabble in XCOM, Ports of Call, Monkey Island and Jones in the Fast Lane on PC though
When I was in high school one of my friends had one of these. I got him hooked on a bootleg copy of X-Com that he used to play constantly. One day I found out that you could only get out of the unit detail screen with the right mouse button...which Macs don't have. I don't think he ever forgave me for making him restart that mission.
@@desepticon4 I'd never used a Mac before I finished college and this was my friend's first Mac so neither of us knew the first thing about them. In fact he specifically got this one so he could drop back to DOS, which he knew better and had more programs for.
I grew up with this computer in 1995 to 2005. First it was at home then it was at my dad’s office. Always used it for EA games and Edutainment games on cd-rom. Great computer.
Holy crap I forgot about this machine. I remember having a conversation with my Computer Science teacher in 6h grade about this thing. I was a PC guy at home, and so was he, but the school only used Macs. He tried to talk the school into getting these when they upgraded the whole computer lab, so he could teach both systems. But apparently they were something like 3 or 4x the cost. It blew my mind that a machine could do both systems, but i never saw it for myself. It became a sort of mythical creature to me.
Omg my dad worked at apple when they made this PC 😂 the department he was leading at the time apparently prevented a production defect from being put out into the actual release system.
A couple coworkers walked in this morning, one guy had two of those Logitech keyboard and mouse receivers visibly plugged into his laptop. I commented, "TWO dongles?" to which the other guy shot back, "WHAT did you just call us?!"
Haven't seen one of these in action in over 20 years. A friend of mine picked up a DOS card for his Mac back then, and I brought over a few games to try out. The idea that it existed fascinated me, but it was sad to see that most games didn't run very well. I want to say we tried handing off more of his RAM to improve performance but still had quite a few problems. Wow. Thanks for the memories, LGR.
I remember when I was in Jr High the students still had Apple IIe and our teacher had one of these Power Macs. Then as a freshman, the Students all had Windows PCs (Dell Optiplex Towers) and the teachers still had old Macintosh and Didn't Know ANYTHING about Windows. But we had been using Windows at home since 3.1 and I had currently been gifted a 233 MMX Pentium machine with win 95 on it. It used to anger my computer teacher when he was trying to teach us and I was miles ahead of him and bored to death in class. because he couldn't find his way around the windows environment and did nothing but argue about "These Damn Dell Computers" because he didn't want the dell PCs he wanted new Macs. Good Memories!
In my senior year all we had were xt compatables. Windows was unknown, mac was a fantasy and Autocad was... interesting. And my home computer was a TRS-80 Color Computer 2. I could not even use the thing for school reports because it would not doublespace!
90's-00's school computer teachers were the worst.... My high school's teacher was someone the local community college IT department FIRED becasue he was incompetent. then the high school picked him up and had him design the school network and yeah it was shit and never worked then blamed all the students and other teachers for not understanding his system.
Loved the video! I had one of these in the late 90's, it was first Power Mac that I ever had and it just happened to be a DOS Compatible. I remember being disappointed in the 486 card performance as it was slower than the 33mhz IBM PS/ValuePoint that I had at the time. Nonetheless, as you noted, the combination of both machines in one box was a big deal for me and it became my primary computer for way longer than it should have. I still have the 486 card but I later upgraded that machine with a G3 card and a better video card (still have it after almost 20 years). It's great to see such a good video on one of these machines.
My first computer was a 6100/60. The memories... I had loads of fun playing Marathon, Pathways Into Darkness, Escape Velocity, Doom 1&2 and Return to Zork. Good times.
Fun fact Clint. The mac startup chord was played on a 12 string guitar by a jazz artist named Stanley Jourdon. Stanley, I'm sorry if I didn't spell your name right, but I think I did. I wish this soundcard could be converted into an SF2 file. Great video Clint.
My first computer was a Macintosh Performa 630CD (33Mhz 68k, 8MB ram, 250MB hdd) and although I've never been an Apple Fanboy, this is quite a marvel of engineering, especially back in those days!
As an Apple-aficionado, I got quite a surprise when I saw the title of the video. A really nice surprise! You see, I too have the same card. Here's a few odd things with it I thought are worth mentioning. First, you can pretty much stick it inside any 68040 Mac if you remove the right angle PPC adapter. I have it in a Quadra 950, which has a lot of upgrade options, which means better graphic cards can be used and shared between the two systems. Second, the joystick port is NOT MEANT for MIDI devices. THEY WILL BE DAMAGED IF CONNECTED (basically, there's 5V where midi out should be). My plan is to trace back the midi out signal on the Vibra 16 to add a proper midi out port. Third, could you please upload the floppy images to archive.org or the Mac Garden? Those disks are rare! And as always, keep up the good work!!
i grew up on system 7, and i am trying to get one of each cpu style up until intel machines. so far ive got an 030, 040, 601, 603e, g3 and g4. i have no real use for osx, and while ive had a g5, i found it useless
Apple made many PC/Mac hybrid compatibles. A company named OrangePC also made PC upgrade cards for Nubus slot equipped Macs like the II or Quadra series. Sun Microsystems also had a 486 card for their SPARCStation line of UNIX workstations.
I didn't either. I thought the whole Windows-on-Mac thing only really took off in the mid-late 2000s when Apple moved from PowerPC to Intel. In the late 2000s the ability to dual boot Windows on a Mac was a real selling point for Apple! Maybe in time something like this could be standard in the M1 Macs, but is there enough demand for running Windows on Mac these days?
@@stephthestar90 The 90s and 2000s were a time where the differences in software libraries between Windows and Mac were sometimes stark. Growing up in the 90s, the Mac vs. Windows rivalry was huge. From what I remember it was all about the software... that's really blurred now, especially since iOS. I left the Mac around 2010 and I've been on Windows since, but geeze, Windows feels more kludgy than ever. I don't think I'll stick around for 11. Back to Mac.
I can't think of any technical reason why Linux couldn't run on the powerPC side. 486 is probably incompatible because the hardware is not perfectly IBM compatible.
Oldest machine I personally used was a Pentium II with win 98, so I never knew 99% of the hardware, os and software you feature on your channel, yet I'm filled with nostalgia from your videos. Keep up the good work!
Watching this video takes me back to my days in high school in the mid-90s. We had one of these in each one of the classrooms, and I always had fun making the Mac crash just so I could freak everyone out with the digitized car crash noise that it made. Good memories. Thanks for the video!
I HAD THIS WHOLE COMPLETE SETUP! Wow, this is really taking me back. I bought the whole setup for $30 and it came with 2 C64's and disk drives on the side. Thanks Clint!
The only mac I have ever wanted. It is right up my alley. 1987 to 1997 are just the most interesting years in computing. So many options, so many different systems. It was heaven back then.
I worked at an Apple shop when these were new. I setup many, including adding memory to the DOS card. One issue was the floppy disk. If you were switching disks on the DOS side, you had to wait a few seconds after inserting the disk before trying to access it on from DOS. If you did it too soon, you locked up the floppy disk in DOS until you rebooted it. This happened to me on Disk 29 of 30 of an Office 4.3 install on the DOS side.
When I was in school, I'd seen some of these in Macs, but the cables were always missing. Recently, a Centris 610 - a 20MHz '040 and the original computer this card was built for - fell into my lap. Again, no cable. I dug around and discovered there were two types of "PC Compatibility" cables, one for the PDS card and one for the later PCI cards. Only the PCI version was documented. I found a guy that loaned me his cable, documented its pinout, and built my own clone, then posted the pinout on 68kmla for anyone that has a card but no cable, like me. It's been working great, but my card (being an original Houdini I card, 25MHz 486sx) has no Sound Blaster! :( Still an awesome system, fun to play around with. Hopefully off to a new home soon :)
I just wanna say, I thoroughly enjoy your videos. It's so nice to kick back and drool over all the nostalgic tech you bring to us. Every time you upload a new video, I just have to watch it! Thanks so much for all you do!!
I remembered seeing this in a magazine back then. I really wanted wanted one, at least my parents bought me a 486DX2 66. Now I also have one DX2 66 but still want this one. Watching this video and playing with Basilisk II should allow me to forget about this wonderful hybrid, my Macintosh Classic also helps. Great video!
Would an early-90's SPARCStation running Windows 3.11 on top of Solaris in emulation also be a cursed image? Can also be run natively via a SunPC card.
This is surprisingly well done, like they could have made a much clunkier implementation than they did. I had no idea this existed, I ignored Apple for most of the 90s though and only really knew of them as doggedly supporting PowerPC until the end. This proves they were actually being pretty open minded.
That is a beauty! I had a Power Mac 6100/66 in 95 when I was in my last year of college (graphic design major). Mine wasn’t a DOS compatible one, but I remember we had one in our computer lab at school. This brought back some memories! Thanks!! 👍🏻
@@theapplechronicles9863 Yes the Orange PC cards was also significantly more impressive than Apples DOS Compatibility cards, but basically all of these hardware cards died when Connectix Virtual PC was launched anyway. Related but not the same thing... what was even more impressive in some aspects was Connectix VGS (Virtual Game Station) that basically turned a Mac into a PSX and could run most playstation games at full framerate on a 233Mhz iMac.
I cannot express it enough this video made me extremely happy. Because of you I don't have to shell out money on ebay for this vintage stuff I used to own. Thanks again!
The heat would cause a nuclear meltdown. The PowerPC 601 is a hot running chip, and it's located directly underneath the 486. There is minimal clearance for an Overdrive chip, unless you mod the heatsink of the 601. I modded my 6100 to have additional cooling for the 601 and 486 so it would stop crashing.
Well, that's no fun. So, I guess as far as cpu upgrades are concerned, passive cooled 486 variants are best, so one of the faster AMD DX2 variants might work best. Sounds like DX4s are not a good fit for these beasts.
My first computer was my mom's old Mac 6100/60. It was the original model and only had the 3 1/4 in floppy drive. Had no idea that there was a variant of it that could run DOS.
@@RetroTechIIfx Sure, I get that, but taking into account, inflation and all that, and the value of a dollar at the time, that's still pretty dumb as for as calling something a "Low price" is concerned.
It was, but Apple has lot and lots more impressive feats of engineering... In fact the entire classic Mac OS was basically a feat of engineering in some sense, as classic Mac OS always basically run under an emulator (ie. Classic Mac OS never made it truley PowerPC, instead Apple emulated a 68k cpu to run the core system and just made certain parts PowerPC native. but contrary to what most think Mac OS at its very core always was 68k)
@@MrAmi69 OrangePC made PC cards for Nubus Macintosh systems long before Apple had official cards. The OrangePC 286 came out in the late 80's for the Macintosh II line. So not really behind the Amiga in this regard.
@@RetroTechIIfx No Apple was actually long before OrangePC, they even had PC compatibility cards for Apple II. They also made an Apple II compatibility card for the Macintosh in the early 90s (basically the same concept).
I remember this computer. My gifted teacher got this and was showing it off. Saw the future at least in the area of file compatibility which we all enjoy today. The cut and paste between the two is mighty useful.
It wasn't uncommon for people to have far less RAM than they really should've had, just given the cost. At one point I spent a fairly considerable amount of money to upgrade my 350MHz K6-II to 1.5GB RAM. Most of my friends took the other approach, 500-800MHz processors, but 128MB to 256MB RAM. They always wondered how my comparatively old, slow computer was much more functional than theirs. Not having to hit the page file had a lot to do with it, and if I remember right, Windows ran even faster if the page file was disabled entirely, presuming you had the RAM to never need one.
In the mid-90s one of the only two or three RAM manufacturing factories in the world burnt down and sent the price of RAM skyrocketing. Took years for them to finally come back down...
The first 286 computer I had was I recall in late 1995. When my sister's then-boyfriend helped me procure memory for it, it was from one of his friends who ran a computer shop. It cost me 80 dollars for 2 1MB chunks of SIMM memory, and that was only because we brought the two original pieces of memory (256k each I recall) to reduce the price. I'm about to build a new computer soon, and it will have at least 16GB of DDR4 memory that will cost less than that 2MB back in the day, even before inflation!
It's great to see LGR bring up the subject on the extravagant expense of RAM back in the 1990s; where for me back then, it seemed puzzling how the small pieces of electronic circuitry could be so costly. I recall Microsoft's DOS workaround for those PCs with minimal RAM: using the hard drive as a buffer so it acts as "virtual RAM." It's great to now being in an era where the desktop PCs have gotten to the performance level that I desired, but not capable of, back in the 1990s.
Remember having this as a kid in my room I had two monitors and a TV between them with multiple other systems hooked to the TV as well as a VCR. It’s a great device for people who loved to multi-task before what technological advances we have today.
It was cool! Funny to think that with the help of Intel, it's now standard on a mac... Maybe for a short time going forward anyway. My soft spot for Apple is quickly fading to put it lightly. It's a company I used to love "I have a F* Apple Tat." Times are changing and Linux is great for most I do... Might have to get a Tux tat. Edit: God Bless VM's for the old days.
Win95 runs OK but slowly on a 6100/DOS. It's a much better DOS/3.11 machine. Apple has very rough drivers in Win9x for the Houdini II card (the 6100's DOS card), the disk drivers are the main performance bottleneck.
@@dabbasw31 Well I am sure something like that never stopped us. ( I ran windows 95 on a 486 laptop, with a passive matrix screen and 8 mb of ram. It wasn't fun but it ran.) It's just the novelty to see a 1994 Mac run Windows 95.
@@RetroTechIIfx That's actually pretty interesting. I didn't know any of that. But it would be cool to see Windows 95 on this, not cause it runs well but cause its possible.
While Windows 95 technically runs on top of DOS, it also does rewrites to the DOS kernel which can cause some incompatibility issues (since this machines is only compatible with DOS 6, most likely by using a wrapper), so you will lose some of the plug&play functionality of Win 95, since that was one of the main features of Win 95 and was partly the reason for the kernel rewrite. The wrapper may not recognize the rewrites and treat Win 95 as still running on the same version of DOS 6 the computer shipped with.
As someone who grew up on Macintoshes at home and dealt with Windows PCs at School, this is like my dream machine for my 11 year-old self. I owned a PowerMac 6300 as my personal computer during my late childhood.
Back then, I used to joke that if Apple could make the CPU an external add-on component... they would. Nearly everything on those old Macs was a separately purchased box connected to the machine via a cable.
@@MatthewHill It's due to caching. You are always getting TH-cam videos from servers near you (at your ISP, for example) and views are only synced in significant intervals.
Oh wow, this takes me back. My grandmother used to have this at her house and I remember going over and using it and pressing the power button for the monitor. And she had a case of old floppy disks that I would use. I never thought I would see this again.
I love how the mac side of things fades in and out, and the dos part just goes PLONK
Probably because the mac being the "host" knows that it's going to DOS, while the DOS installation (or Windows for that matter) is the "guest" and has no knowledge of there being a mac.
The "PLONK" is very likely the CRT losing and regaining sync, as is common when switching video modes and resolutions.
Hey, I guess you're one of the admins on SoFurry! Yeah, I recognised your fursona.
CLUT (Color Look Up Table) fading was extremely common on Mac OS back in the days especially when switching between resolutions (commonly done when going between windowed or fullscreen mode).
Oh hi Toumal nice to see you here :P
I love how serious Clint looks in the monitor's reflection.
I was just disappointed he wasn't talking. I know the commentary is overdubbed, but I still like to imagine he's saying it whilst filming....
He looks like the actor Rip Torn from "Men in Black" in the reflection. ;)
And thin.
He may be lazy, but when serious stuff arises stuff gets serious lol.
He's serious about it. :-)
"Array of apple adapter aggravation." So nothings changed then haha
Not particularly.
Apple was like that from the start.
Or rather, Macintosh was.
The Apple II series was far more sane...
Too bad it was basically killed deliberately.
The IIGS was the last of it's kind, and to top it off it was deliberately gimped to make the Mac look better.
It could've had an 8 mhz CPU (65816's were available at that speed back then), but no. It got roughly 2.6 mhz.
Of course, with a typical Apple GUI, full colour display with some interesting and powerful capabilities, advanced 8 channel sound capabilities, 16 bit CPU, and full backwards compatibility, if it also had a fast CPU it would've made the black and white mac with limited audio abilities look very bad...
Did I mention it was cheaper too?
Yeah...
No wonder they killed it. XD
Do wonder how much of that can be blamed on Jobs and his RDF...
@@KuraIthys You know I totally forgot about the Performa my family had - only one adp port IIRC but it let you daisy chain stuff together like a mouse and joystick....problem was that the passthrough port was on the bottom of the keyboard so stuff got weird quick
Hah seriously, some things never change :)
imagine a person who can't figure out a VCR try to figure that shit out back in the day
I remember this for a really specific reason - my mom was a University student at the time and she was supposed to get one of these. She had a grant for it. However when we took delivery, they had switched it out for a regular apple computer (whatever the top of the line was, it was actually a better Mac if I remember right). She ended up having to settle but the reason she needed both was because as an archaeology student, her software needs were spread across both Mac and DOS. She ended up buying a seperate PC to do what she needed. I've always been curious as to what this was actually like. Seeing the limitations, I wonder if it would have even been powerful enough to run her software.
I wish I had done that. It was not a good solution. I had no idea the do’s side was so crummy.
I used AutoCAD on it. A pretty demanding software back then. It ran quite well.
We had a lab of Pentiums, 486s and Mac DOS compatibles in uni. I was an Apple guy, so I usually sat at one of those Macs. But that part of the lab was always empty, given it was pretty slow for the DOS / Windows side of things. I can confirm it was a bit sluggish.
That may well be why the swap happened. Whoever made the decision on which one to buy might have finally tested it and realized just how badly it underperformed.
My highschool had one of these! People would install heaps of games on the DOS side, and would switch back to the Mac OS when the teacher walked on by. I remember sneaking into the computer lab at lunchtime to play Raptor Call of the Shadows on this beast.
My high school computer programming teacher didn't care if we played games. Our grades were based on turning in assignments. In that sense he operated more like a college teacher would, it was up to us to do the work before we hopped into the LAN gaming session.
Other way around for me. Marathon Infinity, Prime Target and Escape Velocity were my jam and they weren't on PC. Golden age of Mac gaming. I did dabble in XCOM, Ports of Call, Monkey Island and Jones in the Fast Lane on PC though
Most expensive boss key. :>
they wasted taxdollars for you to play games during class
@@nomadcowatbk not like the education system is any good
Haha, we love that you also snuck in a little Planet X3 there! David and I salute you, Sir! 😎💖
When I was in high school one of my friends had one of these. I got him hooked on a bootleg copy of X-Com that he used to play constantly. One day I found out that you could only get out of the unit detail screen with the right mouse button...which Macs don't have. I don't think he ever forgave me for making him restart that mission.
Control-click was always a thing for people with 1 mouse button btw.
@@desepticon4 I'd never used a Mac before I finished college and this was my friend's first Mac so neither of us knew the first thing about them. In fact he specifically got this one so he could drop back to DOS, which he knew better and had more programs for.
Amazing
I grew up with this computer in 1995 to 2005. First it was at home then it was at my dad’s office. Always used it for EA games and Edutainment games on cd-rom. Great computer.
Didn't have this exact model, but grew up using the 6110CD. A lot of childhood memories on that machine. Still have it to this day
I wish I grew up rich tf
We used to have one of these!
Back in May, a family friend gave me this beauty of a machine. Everything was in its proper box, and it all works.
Color me jealous 🙂
Man this takes me back. Thank you.
Holy crap I forgot about this machine. I remember having a conversation with my Computer Science teacher in 6h grade about this thing. I was a PC guy at home, and so was he, but the school only used Macs. He tried to talk the school into getting these when they upgraded the whole computer lab, so he could teach both systems. But apparently they were something like 3 or 4x the cost. It blew my mind that a machine could do both systems, but i never saw it for myself. It became a sort of mythical creature to me.
Omg my dad worked at apple when they made this PC 😂 the department he was leading at the time apparently prevented a production defect from being put out into the actual release system.
What was the defect?
@@Fuzy2K Seems like we will never know.
@@Fuzy2K OP is capping for likes, true internet peasant that makes the world go round
"Doubled up on dongles" is just a funny phrase
Living the Apple dongle life back in 1995.
A double dose of dongles
I dongled my dongles, dongle
Yo dawg, I heard you like dongles...
A couple coworkers walked in this morning, one guy had two of those Logitech keyboard and mouse receivers visibly plugged into his laptop. I commented, "TWO dongles?" to which the other guy shot back, "WHAT did you just call us?!"
Haven't seen one of these in action in over 20 years. A friend of mine picked up a DOS card for his Mac back then, and I brought over a few games to try out. The idea that it existed fascinated me, but it was sad to see that most games didn't run very well. I want to say we tried handing off more of his RAM to improve performance but still had quite a few problems. Wow. Thanks for the memories, LGR.
I remember when I was in Jr High the students still had Apple IIe and our teacher had one of these Power Macs. Then as a freshman, the Students all had Windows PCs (Dell Optiplex Towers) and the teachers still had old Macintosh and Didn't Know ANYTHING about Windows. But we had been using Windows at home since 3.1 and I had currently been gifted a 233 MMX Pentium machine with win 95 on it. It used to anger my computer teacher when he was trying to teach us and I was miles ahead of him and bored to death in class. because he couldn't find his way around the windows environment and did nothing but argue about "These Damn Dell Computers" because he didn't want the dell PCs he wanted new Macs.
Good Memories!
Cool story bro!
@Stuxnet Home-Group I teach haters.
In my senior year all we had were xt compatables. Windows was unknown, mac was a fantasy and Autocad was... interesting. And my home computer was a TRS-80 Color Computer 2. I could not even use the thing for school reports because it would not doublespace!
90's-00's school computer teachers were the worst.... My high school's teacher was someone the local community college IT department FIRED becasue he was incompetent. then the high school picked him up and had him design the school network and yeah it was shit and never worked then blamed all the students and other teachers for not understanding his system.
"Hello, I'm a Mac."
"And I'm a PC."
Shouldn't that be, "Hello, I'm a Mac, and I'm a PC"?
@@TWX1138 Good one.
Fus ...ion ...ha !!! We are Pcmac .
Get the FUCK OUTTA ME!
@@odizm5196 "Suddenly Mac I'm... Suddenly DOS I'm..."
Loved the video! I had one of these in the late 90's, it was first Power Mac that I ever had and it just happened to be a DOS Compatible. I remember being disappointed in the 486 card performance as it was slower than the 33mhz IBM PS/ValuePoint that I had at the time. Nonetheless, as you noted, the combination of both machines in one box was a big deal for me and it became my primary computer for way longer than it should have. I still have the 486 card but I later upgraded that machine with a G3 card and a better video card (still have it after almost 20 years).
It's great to see such a good video on one of these machines.
My first computer was a 6100/60. The memories... I had loads of fun playing Marathon, Pathways Into Darkness, Escape Velocity, Doom 1&2 and Return to Zork. Good times.
This whole computer feels like a "you got chocolate in my peanut butter" "you got peanut butter in my chocolate" situation.
That wasn't chocolate....
Poop.
hey, who turned the heavy back on
That's what she said.
Yeag it wasntb
@@grkb pooop
Fun fact Clint. The mac startup chord was played on a 12 string guitar by a jazz artist named Stanley Jourdon. Stanley, I'm sorry if I didn't spell your name right, but I think I did. I wish this soundcard could be converted into an SF2 file. Great video Clint.
MS and Mac In One Computer... Never thought that happened
That beige CRT monitor really takes me back.
Alot of computer makers made DOS hardware for their respective machines, including Acorn and Commodore.
I'm watching in Windows on MB Pro 09
MacDos
...what about bootcamp? That's been around for a decade to run Windows on Apple computers
My first computer was a Macintosh Performa 630CD (33Mhz 68k, 8MB ram, 250MB hdd) and although I've never been an Apple Fanboy, this is quite a marvel of engineering, especially back in those days!
As an Apple-aficionado, I got quite a surprise when I saw the title of the video. A really nice surprise! You see, I too have the same card. Here's a few odd things with it I thought are worth mentioning. First, you can pretty much stick it inside any 68040 Mac if you remove the right angle PPC adapter. I have it in a Quadra 950, which has a lot of upgrade options, which means better graphic cards can be used and shared between the two systems. Second, the joystick port is NOT MEANT for MIDI devices. THEY WILL BE DAMAGED IF CONNECTED (basically, there's 5V where midi out should be). My plan is to trace back the midi out signal on the Vibra 16 to add a proper midi out port. Third, could you please upload the floppy images to archive.org or the Mac Garden? Those disks are rare! And as always, keep up the good work!!
i grew up on system 7, and i am trying to get one of each cpu style up until intel machines. so far ive got an 030, 040, 601, 603e, g3 and g4. i have no real use for osx, and while ive had a g5, i found it useless
To what degree is the CPU Upgradeable?
I definitely recommend uploading those disks. These classic things need to be archived
Yes LGR, if you see this, please copy those floppies!
InfernosReaper aren’t they on Mac repository?
Autumn outside, slice of pizza,warm blanket and LGR episode. I love it
I just gotta say I love how much effort you put into capturing high quality audio of the hardware running in these videos. 🔊
Also, Serious Art. :)
8===D
According to Apple "Memory is still expensive stuff today" ;D
And thats one of many reason's why they're a terrible company.
@@analogaudiorules1724 to be fair, you can still add some third-party ram to your iMac.
@@АлексейГриднев-и7р but it's a pain in your rear
@@analogaudiorules1724 Great company with terrible upgrating (minus the Mac Pro).
@@ondrajavorik1580 better description. Their stuff is decent, but upgradability is questionable
"Like my local city council, that's mostly due to age." Bahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!
Savage AF
That made me laugh pretty damn hard. Nice one LGR!
I'd like but it's at 420...
@@wesleythomas7125 421 now, you can like it now
@@pedrofelck It's like kicking over one of those boulders naturally balanced on a plinth
"not much point in that, other than it being awesome!"
_LGR 2019_
Holy cow I had no idea this existed in the 90s... AMAZING!
Apple made many PC/Mac hybrid compatibles. A company named OrangePC also made PC upgrade cards for Nubus slot equipped Macs like the II or Quadra series. Sun Microsystems also had a 486 card for their SPARCStation line of UNIX workstations.
I didn't either. I thought the whole Windows-on-Mac thing only really took off in the mid-late 2000s when Apple moved from PowerPC to Intel. In the late 2000s the ability to dual boot Windows on a Mac was a real selling point for Apple! Maybe in time something like this could be standard in the M1 Macs, but is there enough demand for running Windows on Mac these days?
@@stephthestar90 The 90s and 2000s were a time where the differences in software libraries between Windows and Mac were sometimes stark. Growing up in the 90s, the Mac vs. Windows rivalry was huge. From what I remember it was all about the software... that's really blurred now, especially since iOS. I left the Mac around 2010 and I've been on Windows since, but geeze, Windows feels more kludgy than ever. I don't think I'll stick around for 11. Back to Mac.
Interesting setup and good to see it in action! Would have loved to have one of those back in the day. Great vid dude!
"No Linux"
Is that a challenge?
Linux is inevitable!
No, it's a plus. : )
I can't think of any technical reason why Linux couldn't run on the powerPC side. 486 is probably incompatible because the hardware is not perfectly IBM compatible.
@@mrmimeisfunny if you run Linux on the powerpc then you don't have the software to run the 486 card
Oldest machine I personally used was a Pentium II with win 98, so I never knew 99% of the hardware, os and software you feature on your channel, yet I'm filled with nostalgia from your videos. Keep up the good work!
Love your show and I feel your nostalgia to the era when computers were cool and unique. Thank you!
Watching this video takes me back to my days in high school in the mid-90s. We had one of these in each one of the classrooms, and I always had fun making the Mac crash just so I could freak everyone out with the digitized car crash noise that it made. Good memories. Thanks for the video!
"it feels wrong, but in the best kind of way"
-LGR Oct 4, 2019
Edit:200 likes damn i have more likes on this than subs and views combined
That's what she said 😂
It*
I HAD THIS WHOLE COMPLETE SETUP! Wow, this is really taking me back. I bought the whole setup for $30 and it came with 2 C64's and disk drives on the side. Thanks Clint!
I remember my high school having one of these in the Mac computer lab, but it was only for teachers to use sadly.
The only mac I have ever wanted. It is right up my alley. 1987 to 1997 are just the most interesting years in computing. So many options, so many different systems. It was heaven back then.
5:32 I see what you are doing there.
Not what he was doing, what he *DID* .
Yes, serious art! :)
That's a penis!
Farts drive with 69 megs no less...
digi owl Well thats olfactophilia or rather eproctophilia for you. One of the rich array of paraphilias.
I worked at an Apple shop when these were new. I setup many, including adding memory to the DOS card. One issue was the floppy disk. If you were switching disks on the DOS side, you had to wait a few seconds after inserting the disk before trying to access it on from DOS. If you did it too soon, you locked up the floppy disk in DOS until you rebooted it.
This happened to me on Disk 29 of 30 of an Office 4.3 install on the DOS side.
When I was in school, I'd seen some of these in Macs, but the cables were always missing. Recently, a Centris 610 - a 20MHz '040 and the original computer this card was built for - fell into my lap. Again, no cable. I dug around and discovered there were two types of "PC Compatibility" cables, one for the PDS card and one for the later PCI cards. Only the PCI version was documented. I found a guy that loaned me his cable, documented its pinout, and built my own clone, then posted the pinout on 68kmla for anyone that has a card but no cable, like me. It's been working great, but my card (being an original Houdini I card, 25MHz 486sx) has no Sound Blaster! :(
Still an awesome system, fun to play around with. Hopefully off to a new home soon :)
I had an IBM clone and a mac on loan from my school during this period and I never had a clue that my mac and PC had a baby! Great video!
I remember my dad having one of these DOS cards in his mac - he would never let us kids install any games on it though.
even dad have to sleep sometimes :D
Jon Thysell boring dad.
biggest nostalgia hits for me: seeing the PC BIOS output; the 486DX66-2 chip; everything really. Thanks!
Marvel: ‘Infinity War is the most ambitious crossover event in history.’
Apple in 1995: ‘ *Hold my beer* ‘
' Hold my Mouse '
Now, if only you could do an Amiga too...
*Amiga has left the room crying*
Amiga had MC68K not PPC. But Amiga had DOS and Apple 68K support.
"Hold my Powerbook"
That was my first and only Mac. It was a hand-me-down from my cousin who had to use this specific computer for college.
"Array of Apple Adapter Aggravation"
Mmmm, relatable Alliteration
I just wanna say, I thoroughly enjoy your videos. It's so nice to kick back and drool over all the nostalgic tech you bring to us. Every time you upload a new video, I just have to watch it! Thanks so much for all you do!!
I had heard rumors of this in the 90s as an elementary schooler but I never knew this was what was meant.
You are one of about 3 TH-camrs that make me spend all my money on old tech I dont really need (nor can really afford) each month!
I remember when our school had special Macs that ran DOS, because they had educational games that only worked with MS-DOS!
I remembered seeing this in a magazine back then. I really wanted wanted one, at least my parents bought me a 486DX2 66. Now I also have one DX2 66 but still want this one. Watching this video and playing with Basilisk II should allow me to forget about this wonderful hybrid, my Macintosh Classic also helps. Great video!
Seeing a 90s-era Mac running Windows 3.1 is cursed image material.
Lol true
Would an early-90's SPARCStation running Windows 3.11 on top of Solaris in emulation also be a cursed image? Can also be run natively via a SunPC card.
@Cipher Goddess: Bella what you call advanced, I call 'out into orbit'!! : )
This is surprisingly well done, like they could have made a much clunkier implementation than they did. I had no idea this existed, I ignored Apple for most of the 90s though and only really knew of them as doggedly supporting PowerPC until the end. This proves they were actually being pretty open minded.
That wood panel CRT stand.
DrymouthCWW Yes, what‘s with it? You cannot just start a sentence and then never.
I want one too.
@@skipbreakfast I want 1 2 3. ...... well it seemed funny, but maybe not, now. : )
3:47 Clint having a big brain time as a reflection in the monitor
That is a beauty! I had a Power Mac 6100/66 in 95 when I was in my last year of college (graphic design major). Mine wasn’t a DOS compatible one, but I remember we had one in our computer lab at school. This brought back some memories! Thanks!! 👍🏻
Damn, I had one when I was a kid. I was so upset when my parents upgraded to a PowerMac G4.
Well, back in the G4's days you could still get Pentium Orange PC PCI cards that did pretty much the same thing as the Dos Compatibility card...
@@theapplechronicles9863 I have one of these! They come with a Pentium and their own RAM Slots...
The Apple Chronicles interesting, never heard of it.
@@theapplechronicles9863 Yes the Orange PC cards was also significantly more impressive than Apples DOS Compatibility cards, but basically all of these hardware cards died when Connectix Virtual PC was launched anyway.
Related but not the same thing... what was even more impressive in some aspects was Connectix VGS (Virtual Game Station) that basically turned a Mac into a PSX and could run most playstation games at full framerate on a 233Mhz iMac.
I cannot express it enough this video made me extremely happy. Because of you I don't have to shell out money on ebay for this vintage stuff I used to own. Thanks again!
Yess! This is sweet! Also love when you do Mac stuff!
Those chill glamour shots of the computer are so cozy! Very well done, I love where those images took me!
My first thought was: I wonder if this card has a compatible Intel Overdrive chip...
The heat would cause a nuclear meltdown. The PowerPC 601 is a hot running chip, and it's located directly underneath the 486. There is minimal clearance for an Overdrive chip, unless you mod the heatsink of the 601.
I modded my 6100 to have additional cooling for the 601 and 486 so it would stop crashing.
Well, that's no fun. So, I guess as far as cpu upgrades are concerned, passive cooled 486 variants are best, so one of the faster AMD DX2 variants might work best. Sounds like DX4s are not a good fit for these beasts.
My first computer was my mom's old Mac 6100/60. It was the original model and only had the 3 1/4 in floppy drive. Had no idea that there was a variant of it that could run DOS.
"For when I'm in the 'mood' to think different." LMAO
Back when Apple used to encourage users to "Think Different"
Had a good friend who owned this machine back then. I had forgotten about it until this video! Great job Clint!
10:32 "WHAT'S THIS? A Mac/DOS hybrid with no bees? An influx of BEES should fix this!"
I had a couple of them. I was working for a game company and porting a game to Windows and the Mac. It was a decent time saver.
"New LOW Price, 2,399 dollars!"
You could buy a killer system with that...Not even counting for inflation...If you do that you could effectively buy 2 very nice pc's...
luckily, they still are.. :)
For the time in 1994 this was actually quite reasonable for a RISC workstation that happens to have full DOS compatibility as well thrown in.
@@RetroTechIIfx Sure, I get that, but taking into account, inflation and all that, and the value of a dollar at the time, that's still pretty dumb as for as calling something a "Low price" is concerned.
This sounds like one of the coolest vintage computers I've seen. Good work LGR.
This was an incredible feat of engineering for 1995.
Nah, it comes more down to how open much of the hardware was back then. You had similar things going on with the Amiga range.
Only 8 or so years after the Amiga could do it ;)
It was, but Apple has lot and lots more impressive feats of engineering... In fact the entire classic Mac OS was basically a feat of engineering in some sense, as classic Mac OS always basically run under an emulator (ie. Classic Mac OS never made it truley PowerPC, instead Apple emulated a 68k cpu to run the core system and just made certain parts PowerPC native. but contrary to what most think Mac OS at its very core always was 68k)
@@MrAmi69 OrangePC made PC cards for Nubus Macintosh systems long before Apple had official cards. The OrangePC 286 came out in the late 80's for the Macintosh II line. So not really behind the Amiga in this regard.
@@RetroTechIIfx No Apple was actually long before OrangePC, they even had PC compatibility cards for Apple II.
They also made an Apple II compatibility card for the Macintosh in the early 90s (basically the same concept).
Truly one of your best works of comedic video art.
Five thumbs up! 👍👍👍👍👍
4:52 - Ah, I miss that startup sound.
I remember this computer. My gifted teacher got this and was showing it off. Saw the future at least in the area of file compatibility which we all enjoy today. The cut and paste between the two is mighty useful.
the ram costs as much as my entire computer
It wasn't uncommon for people to have far less RAM than they really should've had, just given the cost. At one point I spent a fairly considerable amount of money to upgrade my 350MHz K6-II to 1.5GB RAM. Most of my friends took the other approach, 500-800MHz processors, but 128MB to 256MB RAM. They always wondered how my comparatively old, slow computer was much more functional than theirs. Not having to hit the page file had a lot to do with it, and if I remember right, Windows ran even faster if the page file was disabled entirely, presuming you had the RAM to never need one.
In the mid-90s one of the only two or three RAM manufacturing factories in the world burnt down and sent the price of RAM skyrocketing. Took years for them to finally come back down...
The first 286 computer I had was I recall in late 1995. When my sister's then-boyfriend helped me procure memory for it, it was from one of his friends who ran a computer shop. It cost me 80 dollars for 2 1MB chunks of SIMM memory, and that was only because we brought the two original pieces of memory (256k each I recall) to reduce the price. I'm about to build a new computer soon, and it will have at least 16GB of DDR4 memory that will cost less than that 2MB back in the day, even before inflation!
Or as much as my graphics card!
@@HailAnts Most ppl don't remember that, it's nice to know i'm not the only one who remembers that.
It's great to see LGR bring up the subject on the extravagant expense of RAM back in the 1990s; where for me back then, it seemed puzzling how the small pieces of electronic circuitry could be so costly.
I recall Microsoft's DOS workaround for those PCs with minimal RAM: using the hard drive as a buffer so it acts as "virtual RAM."
It's great to now being in an era where the desktop PCs have gotten to the performance level that I desired, but not capable of, back in the 1990s.
Kinda like a Hackintosh, but the other way around.
I smiled broadly when I saw Planet X3 =).
Well, this “apple” certainly certainly looks interesting!
Thank you for the video!
5:32 Lovely fruit painting there!
I see what you did there... ;)
Remember having this as a kid in my room I had two monitors and a TV between them with multiple other systems hooked to the TV as well as a VCR.
It’s a great device for people who loved to multi-task before what technological advances we have today.
AFTER DAAAAAAAAARK!
I actually still have a couple flying toaster convention bags.
I love this channel so much. no nonsense click bait pictures with red circles or arrows just pure old school awesomeness.
Microsoft and Apple fanboys: *unanimous confused screaming*
I am no mere fanboy. I discovered The Way, the PC Way. All wrong ways will be dealt with.
@@keithbrown7685 peace was never an option?
It was cool! Funny to think that with the help of Intel, it's now standard on a mac... Maybe for a short time going forward anyway. My soft spot for Apple is quickly fading to put it lightly. It's a company I used to love "I have a F* Apple Tat." Times are changing and Linux is great for most I do... Might have to get a Tux tat.
Edit: God Bless VM's for the old days.
nah, macs have run parallels/vmware forever, and bootcamp since the start of the intel days.
Well, Macs became generic garbage PCs anyway ever since 2006.
LGR, you gave me the confidence to use computers. Never stop this channel, it is legitimately a positive influence on this planet.
wait wut
Wow! I had no idea this existed.
This is all kinds of awesome! I'm amazed at how pristine the machine is and that you have all of the original manuals and software disks. :)
Nobody:
Apple: We Have A DOS Compatible Power Mac 6100/66
Microsoft: you have been chosen.
your comment would have been, like, 16 times funnier if you just dropped the unfunny, worn out "nobody:" which is plaguing memes today
@@BlueThe1up "We will have flying cars!" meme is worse.
@@aretard7995 ehhh, thats a hard question. that memes pretty bad, but i dont see it nearly as often or as like... misused as i see nobody:
@@BlueThe1up nope, it's worse.
@@aretard7995 thats just like your opinion man
they are both bad though
I just scored a Performa 640CD Dos Compatible from a recycler for $20. You inspired me! Cleaning it up and hope to boot it up in a few days.
Any chance of seeing Windows 95 running on this just because ?
Win95 runs OK but slowly on a 6100/DOS. It's a much better DOS/3.11 machine. Apple has very rough drivers in Win9x for the Houdini II card (the 6100's DOS card), the disk drivers are the main performance bottleneck.
Windows 95 on 486 is not so great in general. Most Win95 exclusive apps and games expect a Pentium CPU.
@@dabbasw31 Well I am sure something like that never stopped us. ( I ran windows 95 on a 486 laptop, with a passive matrix screen and 8 mb of ram. It wasn't fun but it ran.)
It's just the novelty to see a 1994 Mac run Windows 95.
@@RetroTechIIfx That's actually pretty interesting. I didn't know any of that.
But it would be cool to see Windows 95 on this, not cause it runs well but cause its possible.
While Windows 95 technically runs on top of DOS, it also does rewrites to the DOS kernel which can cause some incompatibility issues (since this machines is only compatible with DOS 6, most likely by using a wrapper), so you will lose some of the plug&play functionality of Win 95, since that was one of the main features of Win 95 and was partly the reason for the kernel rewrite. The wrapper may not recognize the rewrites and treat Win 95 as still running on the same version of DOS 6 the computer shipped with.
I have one of this! Still working with dos compatibility card! Great old days..
Was that Planet X3 from the 8bitguy at 10:50?
Very likely. At 10:01 there's folder PX3 shown under GAMES. It's probably that.
I was completely unaware of this system. This is great. Thanks for demonstrating it for us and going over all the features!
Ppl in current year: bruh lemme borrow ur dongle
Ppl in 1995: bruh lemme borrow ur dongle
As someone who grew up on Macintoshes at home and dealt with Windows PCs at School, this is like my dream machine for my 11 year-old self. I owned a PowerMac 6300 as my personal computer during my late childhood.
‘Includes CPU’ - wow !
Back then, I used to joke that if Apple could make the CPU an external add-on component... they would. Nearly everything on those old Macs was a separately purchased box connected to the machine via a cable.
I love how this computer looks. It's simple and to the point. I am definately getting one.
You know you’re early when there are more likes than views.
TH-cam views always seem to lag reality by a good spell. I guess maybe they update it via overnight batch or something crufty like that.
@@MatthewHill It's due to caching. You are always getting TH-cam videos from servers near you (at your ISP, for example) and views are only synced in significant intervals.
@@MatthewHill LGR posted the video early for Patrons.
Oh wow, this takes me back. My grandmother used to have this at her house and I remember going over and using it and pressing the power button for the monitor. And she had a case of old floppy disks that I would use. I never thought I would see this again.
Thats remember of the movie "Pirates of Silicon Valley", when Steve Jobs shows Bill gates on the projector "The Big Brother"
Dude!!! I’ve been trying to remember the first computer I ever used at my grandmas and it was THAT ONE. Thank you now I can finally try to find one