Theory: The reason Ralsei knows Kris' and Susie's names, as well as the layout of the school and the culture of Lightners, is because his glasses are made of Shadow Crystal and so he can see into the Light World even from the Dark World.
Oh! Wow. That's actually a REALLY interesting idea. Wait, Seam said the Shadow Mantle was missing, right? So maybe Ralsei has it! Oh wow. That actually makes a ton of sense! Great suggestion!
@@JaruJaruJ Here's another theory for you: Ralsei has been in contact with Gaster before. Specifically, Ralsei got the prophecy from Gaster. An allusion to the prophecy first showed up on the Deltarune website, written in wingdings. So, probably written by Gaster. Also, in chapter 1, Ralsei says that the prophecy was "foretold by time and space". You know who was said to have been "shattered across time and space" in Undertale? Gaster.
I think the biggest hole in this is that everyone takes Kris's work that Asriel goes off to college. No way Toriel just accepts that he drops off the map with no communication at all for months
Exactly, i think its kind of the opposite, everyone in the town is lying to kris about Asriel going to college, not Kris lying, everyone just completely believing Asriel just up and left one day AT NIGHT by the way, WITH 0 COMMUNICATION or without notifying ANYBODY is just extremely stupid.
@@ttracs but theres barely anything known about the overall lore and plot of deltarune, theyre just kinda free roaming and sealing random fountains that pop up, itll probably take a serious shift in tone throughout the later chapters and reveal many things
I always thought that Ralsei was what Kris wanted to be as a child. The pink headband is what made me think of that. That's why Kris is so uncomfortable about Ralsei when you take the tea into the equation. Kris didn't want to be human, in fact I think Kris genuinely feels uncomfortable about other humans in general. Maybe what made Ralsei come to life was a drawing that Kris made of who they always wanted to be, more like their brother. After bitterly hiding the drawing and headband in the abandoned classroom Kris forgot about it. But because Kris has a lot of determination because they're a human, Ralsei ended up gaining a lot more power than he should have and gained more self awareness than every other darkner. That's why Ralsei looks like Asriel but also doesn't. Even the glasses could be explained by Kris knowing that their mom has similarly shaped glasses when she's reading. Why did Ralsei know Kris and Susie's names? It's because Ralsei is Kris and they're connected like that. That's why Ralsei knows that layout of the school, knows what homework is, etc.
@@AdaTheWatcher that and a sona is saposed to be the best possable version of you, imagine you start an adventure with your highschool bully and not to long in you meet someone who is basicly you but (in your eyes) is better in every way, thats gotta lead to some issues... Edit:cleaned writing
I really like this theory too because all we know about Kris for now is that they're most probably the only human in town. We've seen through context clues that the town isn't really use to Kris being a human, not even Toriel who we know took that book about how to take care of humans multiple times from the library. I think Ralsei is very likely what an innocent Kris would've liked to be after noticing how different they were to monsters, to their own family and literally the whole town. Kris wanted to fit in, so he created a version of themselves that did so. Though as they grow up and maybe got bullied for being different, they started to also distance themselves from that. They started going for a different approach, they embraced being the odd one out, or more so playing into that image others had of them. The subtle dislike Kris shows to Ralsei in the dark world is most likely due to Kris still not fully loving themselves and accepting what they truly wanted as an innocent kid. Kinda how we all used to like something a lot in the past but we grow and then label it as cringe, sometimes other people convinced us that it is cringe, then we mature more and realize that's just what we liked and that it probably wasn't as bad. That's my take on this at least
Furthermore, why is Asriel's soul red? Boss monster souls (and just any monster's soul in general) is white and upside down. Did Asriel somehow turn human?
@@Kirbzzy That sounds very strechy.. when flowey absorbed the human souls, they didn't fuse toghether, they were simply confined to flowey, and it's not like that is only exclusive to humans; when he becomes Asriel and breaks the barrier, we see all of the monsters souls (which weren't merged) Now ofcourse, that could just be because Flowey doesn't have a soul of his own, but I fail to see how anything would change if he did. What? The souls can't merge if he doesn't have a soul but they can if he does? What stops the other souls from merging with eachother when absorbed by a soulless being then? It's all just so cirsumstancial.
I think Ralsei *is* the headband but more importantly what the headband represented. It was Kris’ desire to belong fully to their family, to resemble them and not humans. The reason they’re so awkward around him is because he is what they feel they should have been: A well-behaved goat child rather than a rambunctious human prankster. We know Kris doesn’t like thinking about other humans because of how quick they shut the book about them when we interact with it in the library.
I feel like this theory started out really well and sounded possible, and then it went off the rails and stopped making sense half-way through. The thought of Asriel’s parents not questioning him going off the grid one night and not telling anyone beforehand is absurd. I expected you to propose that Asriel died without Kris knowing, and their parents told them that Asriel went to college as way to stop them from finding the truth. Also, the whole thing with Asriel being the player has way too many holes. Your argument about Frisk not rebelling doesn’t make sense because Frisk is designed to be a vessel for the player. Deltarune was quick to draw the line between Kris and the player, but Undertale never did (debatably it did actually when Frisk told Asriel their name in True Pacifist route). Frisk was portrayed as a complete blank slate, an entity that has no free will of its own that exists only as a bridge into the world of Undertale. In Deltarune we literally create a similar entity, the vessel at the beginning of chapter 1, but then it gets discarded, and we are thrust into control of Kris. It tells us “No one controls who they are in this world”. IN THIS WORLD. Comparing Kris and Frisk isn’t exactly something you can do here. This theory works in a vacuum, but in the context of some other aspects it quickly falls apart. But with some tweaking here and there, I think it can work as a solid explanation for a lot of the games mysteries. … If Asriel’s death can create a darkner with his likeness and personality… then can Dess do the same, assuming that she died? Food for thought.
Right. I'm not sure if he made a video about it, but I'm not sure the rules of undertale are one to one with deltarune. Things such as boss monsters and monsters dusting upon death may not even exist in deltarune, which pokes many holes in this. Also, if kris wants to create dark worlds to separate themselves from asriel after seeing what happened in the snowgrave route... then why create a dark fountain in the living room.. when their mom is right there? Because according to jaru the motive was to protect his friends and family. Couldn't kris just do that away from the house where it's safer?
@@RinnMayyi had assumed this was in connection to the fact that lighteners dont die when their hp reaches zero. so if toriel gets hurt in the dark world she wouldnt be hurt in the light world. but not only did he never say that directly, its also be shown thats not strictly the case, berdly has some effects in the light world that were caused in the dark world. whether thats his arm in a violent playthrough, or him being unconscious/dead in the weird route.
Dude, you do realize the monsters are like the most gullible idiots ever right? Undyne believed anime was real, Papyrus doesn't even know when his friends are DEAD, Asgore and Muffet didnt take a mass evacuation seriously, Gaster yeeted himself into his own machine. Asriel and Chara almost kill their father with poisonous flowers because they misread "Cups of Butter", Toriel leaves a child unattended in the ruins, and then at some arbitrary point in time realizes "Oh no, that child is gonna probably fight asgore, and someone might die, I guess I should go like stop that or something lol." Mettaton wastes his neo form doing nothing and is easily tricked into exposing his EX form switch on neutral routes. and thats just undertale! Don't even get me started on Deltarune, The Police force is clearly incompetent, Alphy's a horrible teacher, the two "smartest" kids in her class can't solve elementary school puzzles, Asgore's business is failing because hes giving away all his products, and Toriel is clearly out of her depth with kris needing a handbook just to raise them. Monsters are dumb AF, dont pretend otherwise, you could convince them to eat a spoonful of dirt if you told them it tasted like chocolate.
@@sasaki999pro1. Undyne didn’t know anime wasn’t real because she’s never even seen a human before let alone the surface 2. Papyrus probably deep down does know his friends are dead but doesn’t want to believe it 3. Muffet is a psychopath and asgore clearly isn’t in a good state of mind 4. We don’t even know what “Gaster fell into his own creation” really means, it might not have been an accident but rather on purpose. 5. Children are dumb and Chara isn’t even a monster 6. Toriel got sidetracked due to shenanigans with the annoying eating her phone and lost track of time 7. NEO is meant to show how strong the player is and Mettaton is very clearly vain and maybe even wanted to show off his EX Form 8. There is a lack of serious crime in hometown so they don’t really need a big police force, Undyne says that she wishes someone would build a bank so someone could rob it 9.Letting the NPC’s do most of the puzzles is bad game design 10. Asgore isn’t a good business owner and is clearly going through something that keeps his mind off of his business (divorce + probably other stuff too) 11. Parenting isn’t easy and especially for single mothers 12. Quirky and silly does not equal dumb
@@mysteryguy1440 just want to add for 11 that it was specifically a book on how to raise a human. itd make sense that toriel would borrow a book on how to take care of a child of a different fucking species
16:18 after hearing the theory beforehand, my idea was that his head didn't turn into stone because he had a pirate hat and an eyepatch. Pirating is something you can do on computers. So rouxls caard's face and head would fit in but the rest of his body wouldn't. That's only my idea though
The dark world be like "Hey you don't fit the theme! Initiate stone statue protocol! hold on is that an eyepatch. oh ok nvm ur head can stay. only the head tho"
I have my own theory for all of this. Ralsei is a darkner in the posession of a lightners soul. Think about it. Spamton wanted Kris's soul because he wanted to be free from his strings. So it stands to reason that posessing a Lightner's Soul frees you from the constraints of darkners. Stuff like, yknow not being able to exist in other dark fountains, or the Light World? And maybe even the power to save and load? Now where could he have gotten it from? Candidate 1: Dess Holiday Dess's disappearance could very well be chalked up to her accidentally stumbling into a dark world and then perishing, where ralsei took her soul for himself. Candidate 2: Asriel Dreemurr Tbh i don't like this explanation, it explains that Asriel Ralsei connection but it also presumes Asriel is dead which i just don't buy, sorry Candidate 3: Kris I know this one sounds crazy, but i raise you this scenario. What if there was a timeline where the heroes failed? What if ralsei, at wit's end took the soul of that timeline's Kris, and used it to reset, returning everything to normal. But there's a problem. If ralsei still has that Kris's soul, after the reset happens, they are left without one. An empty vessel, perfect for Gaster's program to connect to. And he puts our soul in Kris's body. This fucking thing took me multiple rewrites and ended up taking me 2 hours to make and all it amounts to is a gosh darn comment on a video
@@edwardbo4666 oh, right, Asriel on True Pacifist, I completely forgot/gen I'm fairly sure that it was stated (or at least implied) on the lore tablets in Waterfall that people or couldn't absorb the souls of living monsters, so that's probably why I was confused/neu.
When I hear this theory . It makes me think a little more deeply about certain things that The narrator said. If you take The money from Asriel’s Storage and click on it again. The game will say “ you have already taken enough.” And if you check out the book that asriel got from the library it say “ your brother will never return this book”
Yep! Lots of lines take on a much darker meaning if this is true. Kris having a flashback at the start of Chapter 2 where someone finds them with a knife and yells "NOOOO!" suddenly means something very different.
@@JaruJaruJ it does kind of seem up Toby’s alley. Considering Toby loves making something funny but having a secret dark meaning behind it. Like at the beginning of chapter 2 were made to believe that Kris just went to get the pie and it was all just a joke at the end of chapter 1. But in actuality he did eat the pie but at the same time he also most probably opened up the CyberWorld since as soon as he does that at the end of chapter 1 the cyber world exist. So Azriel could’ve been keeping The book because the girl on the Cover was pretty but at the same time he could’ve returned it because he’s dead. Also don’t you find it kind of strange he didn’t bring his “favorite book” with Him to college especially since it’s something he won’t return
@@JaruJaruJ also this could put into contacts what Spamton said “ don’t blame me when you’re crying in a broken home wishing you let your old pal Spamton kill you “
I honestly think your theories are so wild and crazy and out there that they ain't gonna happen, but the way you present them is so entertaining, and I can't help but watch videos that are hours long about something I love
There's one thing that bugs me about this theory. Toriel attempts to call Kris while they're in the dark world in Chapter 1, right after she couldn't find them. This explains to me that she's worried that Kris could have disappeared. Surely Toriel, who cares for both of her kids, would also want to check up on Asriel herself? It doesn't seem like her to not want to talk to Asriel.
That's fair. Maybe Toriel is content to communicate with Asriel through Kris? Like, maybe she's content with Kris relaying her messages? Or maybe Kris gave her an email to contact Asriel with, and she HAS been emailing him, but it's actually a fake email that Kris made, and it's really him replying to her on the other end? The specifics surrounding that are certainly open to speculation.
This also brings up something else, why can’t we call Asriel on our phones? I doubt it’s because he’s dead or missing, more that there’s also dialogue that hints that we’ll see him at the end of the week, or in other words after the final chapter, so I think it’s more likely that it’s for the sake of story, considering with the towns internet issues kris hasn’t been able to talk to Asriel online, based on some of Alphys’ dialogue
The reason why Ralsei seems to teleport to his castle town could be because his true form (whatever he is as a dark world being, if he is one) never left the closet. So, because that item is still in the closet, his true form was there. So, once you close the fountain, he just gets transported back in his castle.
Oh! Interesting idea! Maybe his true form exists somewhere in his castle (maybe on the higher floors?) and he's sorta astral projecting a version of himself out into the world? That's a really cool concept! Thanks for suggesting it!
@@JaruJaruJ And it would explain why his body collapses into just clothes when knocked out. He has to continuously maintain the astral projection for it to work.
The thing I always say when people bring up ralsei not turning into a statue is that ralsei said that castle town’s fountain is made of pure darkness and that’s why everyone can stay there. Ralsei being the prince of the dark, likely the dark as a whole probably means he’s made of the same stuff
I like to imagine Toby sees all these theory videos and just watched everyone go slowly insane trying to solve the deltarune lore like “mmm yes, very interesting, please continue”
Lol, now i'm imagining Toby casually watching theories, taking a sip of tea/coffee and being like "Hmmm, pretty close...NO YOU WERE ALMOST, WHY DID YOU SAID THAT?!"
@@grandevirtude9830 and it just becomes a domino effect of insanity- like: yep, uh-huh, wait what? no lmfao, dude wtf, WHERE DID YOU GET THAT FROM? etc.
Two quick questions: 1) If Kris killed Asriel, even accidentally... why is their LV still 1? Killing a Froggit is enough to raise Frisk's to 2; I'd imagine killing a boss monster, their brother no less, would have granted Kris even more EXP. 2) UT tells us that the attacker's intent has as much impact on how much damage a monster takes as the monster's emotional state does. We see proof of this in the "fight" with Undyne after burning down her house, where, whether you fight or act -> fake punch, Undyne will only take 1 damage - not because her guard is up, but because Frisk doesn't want to hurt her. So could Kris even kill Asriel accidentally? And if not, I think we'd agree that they wouldn't try to actually hurt him on purpose, so... I def think there's interesting stuff here, with the Flowey Ralsei parallels, and the idea of an item with a monster's dust being exposed to a dark fountain (I'm personally betting we'll see such a thing happen with Gerson's hammer), but I don't think the scenario you've proposed works.
I wonder if maybe Asriel was feeling sick or something, like how Chara got sick, and came back to look for his family as he was accidentally poisoned somehow, and that’s how he ended up dying suddenly at the school. This would mean that kris never harmed him.
Thank you for the comment! My thoughts: 1) I actually disagree regarding the LV. Nothing in Snowgrave gets you LV and beating up Asgore in UNDERTALE doesn't get you LV, so I think Kris accidently hurting Asriel wouldn't affect their LV either. LV is, according to Sans, "A way of measuring someone's capacity to hurt," so if Kris never wanted to hurt anyone, and thus had no capacity to hurt, then it stands to reason that their EXP/LV wouldn't increase. EXP is "Execution Points," and while I could be wrong, I don't think accidently hurting someone counts as an "Execution." 2) While it's true that the attacker's intent affects the severity of their attacks, I don't think that makes monsters immune to fatal accidents. If I accidently crash my car into Asriel, would he survive because I had no lethal intent? If a bowling ball fell on his head, would it do no damage because nobody was TRYING to hurt him? I don't think so. Same with the knife. Even if Kris had no lethal intent, a knife is still sharp, and monsters still have very weak bodies. That's my interpterion anyway! Thank you again for the comment. x)
@@JaruJaruJ Fair enough on the intent point! But... I don't think your comparisons for LV work. It is provable that LV works differently in the dark world - Kris and the party gain it from sealing fountains, but Kris still has LV 1 in the light world. And if directly killing Darkners like in Snowgrave would affect light world LV (even though you make the argument yourself that Darkners and monsters are substantially different, with Darkners likely even lacking SOULs), we haven't seen Kris kill any Darkners themself. That was all Noelle, and we don't get to see her light world LV. As far as Asgore in UT goes... yeah, just "beating him up" shouldn't give Frisk EXP. Because the same is true for every other monster - you can bring them to a sliver of their life and then spare them. That being said, even if you have Frisk deal him the final blow instead of sparing him (and letting Flowey finish the job)... we technically don't get to see what their LV is at any point past that moment. If anything, it sure feels like they have a lot more health in the Photoshop Flowey fight than normal, considering how painful his attacks seem like they'd be. And there's no reason killing Asgore should be an exception to the gaining EXP/LV rule set by every other monster, considering in this circumstance Frisk makes the binary choice to do it. I suppose it's true that technically, we haven't seen a human accidentally kill a monster and then been able to see their LV after.* But it feels like you're stretching the simply defined, well established rules to make this work. And considering you brought up the possibility of Ralsei being a human just to immediately point out how absurd it is for the sake of covering your bases, it feels weird that you wouldn't have thought to bring up this potential counter to your thesis in the vid. Plus, for what it's worth, capacity to hurt and desire to hurt are not totally synonymous. You can hurt someone without meaning to, especially if we give you the point about intent not being that signifcant. And even if that makes it not technically an "execution", consider that Toby mainly chose that term over something like "murder points" because he could believably shorten it to EXP without raising any eyebrows until Sans's judgment. I mean, does killing a Froggit really count as "the carrying out of a sentence of death on a *condemned* person" or "killing as a *political act*"? It was close enough. *EDIT: If I wanted, I could argue that killing Toriel in a previously pacifistic run actually counts as an accidental kill that provably increases your LV... but technically you could argue that Frisk always intends to kill Toriel there, regardless of the player's thought process. Still, something to consider.
@@AgentRaven The entire premise of LV is to measure your capacity to cause harm to others. That's its whole purpose. If it can't register that Snowgrave is evidence of Kris becoming increasingly capable of causing harm, then I think it's safe to say there are loopholes here. Assaulting someone like Asgore until he's on the brink of death? Doesn't register as capacity to harm. Ordering someone else to commit murder? Doesn't register as capacity to harm. Even if Darkners don't count, Kris ordered Noelle to use a spell that is explicitly described as fatal on Berdly, a monster. As far as Kris knew, that would (and possibly did) kill Berdly in the Light World. As such, if that doesn't count, then I don't think an accident should count either. If Kris was driving a car, and they accidently lost control, and it ran over a monster, should their LV increase? If Kris bumps into a shelf, a bowling ball falls off, and it hits someone on the head and kills them, should their LV increase? It wasn't intentional. Their capacity to harm, by all definitions, has not increased. Same with the knife. And like I said, it's entirely possible that the way I described it isn't 100% accurate. Maybe Asriel got spooked by Kris, Asriel tripped and fell and busted his head on a table, and that killed him. In that instance, Kris still kills him, still absorbs his soul, but doesn't directly stab him. Would that be sufficiently accidental to not result in Kris gaining LV? I'd say so. I'm not sure what you're implying regarding me not covering my bases. It's weird that I forgot about Kris' stats in the Light World? This is a big game my man. There's a gargantuan number of tiny details that I'm trying to weave together. Some are going to slip through the cracks. I'm only human. Unlike Ralsei. xP
@@JaruJaruJ Wouldn’t it be Asriel that would order the death of Berdly and the Cyber City inhabitants in the Snowgrave route? As we only see Kris’ stats, and not Asriels’, wouldn’t it mean that we can’t see the effects of the Snowgrave run on Kris’ stats, as he technically wasn’t the one to do all that.
There are some elements I don’t entirely agree with, but it’s still interesting to see other peoples theories. The Flowey/Ralsei similarities are something I never thought of that is actually really interesting, though.
Indeed! There are actually additional similarities that some folks have brought up in the comments that I never even knew! For example, in the demo for UNDERTALE, it came with this instruction booklet that included a picture of Flowey saying he couldn't wait to meet us. And guess what? In the files of DELTARUNE Ralsei's instruction manual includes a picture of Ralsei saying he can't wait to meet us! It's kinda insane. xD
I feel like this theory is kind of a stretch but you still detroyed me emotionally with the whole idea so congrats. Unfortunately I can kinda see Toby Fox pulling an at least similar twist and boy am I not ready
Yeah I’m thinking with the whole theme of their being only one ending you can’t change, the ending will be us having to except asriel will never come to life even in a parallel narrative. Altho I think the whole murder in the closet thing might be a little too much to say too soon.
given how interested toby is in deconstructing video game tropes and making the player take responsibility for their actions, and given what happened with chara- where the majority of the fandom saw them and immediately placed all the blame for their own choices on them- i just can't see toby introducing another possession character that he *knows* will be used as a scapegoat (ha) for every horrible thing the player chooses to do.
57:40 just a note, Frisk did rebel against players control one time at true pacifist run, when the player tells to frisk tease So cold, they just refuse to do it.
Honestly, what I found most convincing is Sans saying you'll see Papyrus when your brother comes home implying you'll never see him because Asriel's dead. That sort of meta-joke is so incredibly Sans-y, as well as being a classic Toby Fox bait and switch.
I know right?! Plus, Sans hates "dirty brother killers," so maybe he's starting to realize that Kris might be a threat, and thus doesn't want Papyrus to hang out with them. Maybe Sans is suggesting they wait for Asriel to come home so that way Sans can have confirmation that Kris either is or is not a dirty brother killer. Makes sense for Sans!
@@JaruJaruJ I'm not sure if it's so easy for Sans to judge, but I think by that he probably already judged Kris. Therefore, either he knows what Kris did just like when Frisk killed one monster just to us know what happens or he isn't sure because killing Asriel wasn't intentional anyway
@@JaruJaruJ honestly, while I don't agree with the entire theory, I do feel like a lot of these elements could be somewhat true, so while you might not have completed the entire jigsaw puzzle, several pieces are probably in place for other people to base their theories off of
@@JaruJaruJ you just generally seem to have a much more Toby way of thinking about things, because while other theories might be plausible in their own right, they all seem straightforward and like the simple way out, while you go genuinely insane and connect all the dots we have to connect, in a way that no other theories can even come close to, so just plain respect to your ideas and I hope you keep going with these
Here’s what I believe. Ralsei is a darkner. A PURE darkner. Do you remember what he says to Susie and kris when lancer turned into a statue? “Castle Towns dark fountain is made of PURE DARKNESS!” This type of darkness allows him to enter different dark worlds and not turn into stone. He is a pure blooded darkner and that is why he is “the prince of the kingdom of darkness”
@@interdimensionalgoober8769 honestly I don’t have an answer for that. However I don’t believe that Ralsei is asriel. It just seems too easy for Toby Fox to do.
@@interdimensionalgoober8769 Could just be a red herring. Also, I don't think he looks as clearly like Asriel than most people act. He looks like that species, but he doesn't really resemble Asriel noticeably more than Toriel.
this was really entertaining to watch, like i'm in a chair in a dimly lit room with someone who's going off the deep end while thoroughly explaining to me a conspiracy board with 83 pictures and documents pinned onto it. please keep up the good work lmao
CW: Suicide This is a super convincing theory but I see that people in the comments pointing out that Kris couldn't have killed Asriel without gaining EXP or LV. And a really dark theory came to my mind: What if Asriel took their own life? Like maybe the pressure of college or his parent's divorce or any other reasons we may find out in later chapters could have driven him to this point (maybe Asriel found out about not having control over his own life much like Jevil/Spamton... which could have been too much for him to handle). And Kris happened to come across his brother during this (like Kris was about to perform said prank in the costume but saw their depressed brother wandering off and followed him). Kris tried to stop him but is too late, causing Asriel's dust to spread across the costume and his soul to merge with Kris'. In a panic, Kris hides the costume in the closet and is traumatized by all this. They don't know what to do and they don't want to break the news to ANYONE. Thus they cover up by saying Asriel is off at college. And they desperately try to find a solution to this before summer break rolls around since they cannot keep up this lie without drawing suspicion. That's why they get into the occult as a means to revive their brother. They would find out about the dark fountains eventually (the jello knife could have been their first attempt at making the first fountain to avoid any suspicion of Toriel's kitchen utensils gone missing). Once Kris sees Ralsei after entering the first fountain, THAT's why Kris makes more fountains despite awful things like the snowgrave route. Kris desperately wants to make the fountains in hopes to see/revive their brother while Asriel controlling Kris's body wants to seal them back up (as a sort hint to Kris to move on with their life and avoid the Roaring) Damn I hope I am wrong, this is just far too dark, but this definitely lines up with this theory so well... This makes some scenes like the swan boat ride hug scene so much more heart-wrenching. I really, REALLY want to be wrong.
If Asriel really comitted suicide as a means to escape trauma in his life, wouldn't him going into Kris' body and controlling them render their suicide irrelevant?
@@Mr.KokoPudgeFudge Good point. theoretically in undertale you kill multiple monsters and plenty of them are bosses in the genocide route. In that case you would've absorbed their souls, but they never indicate that the monsters have any control over that persons body. the only time they seem to display some control is possibly when Asriel collects all the monster souls of the underground. Maybe any monster soul that is too weak to sustain itself is simply absorbed, but with enough power they can persist? This is all speculatory of course. If it were the case then Asriel never gained any control over Kris, but still could be a reason for his ability to move without his human soul. This would also be supported by how he struggles to move without his human soul. Edit: Asriel does go through the barrier after taking the soul of chara, but it took every bit of strength left in him to stop chara from killing all the humans, so that might actually support that a human soul has more control than a monster soul.
Less than half-way though and just wanna say- Another HUGE problem with the concept of Ralsei being Asriel is his behavior around Kris. Someone shouldn’t be getting all flustered around their adoptive brother. If Ralsei is straight up Asriel, Toby has a lot of explaining to do.
Even if Ralsei is another version of Asriel as explained in the video, I don’t think he’d actually know he used to be asriel.. so him having those feelings for Kris isn’t inherently wrong from his part if that makes sense
When a Lightner enters a Dark World, they become a different (at the very least, different-looking) version of themselves. Susie can use Rude Buster in Chapter 1 and Noelle can use her magic immediately so I think it’s safe to say they have some different attributes, but still the same memories, personalities, etc. Ralsei isn’t that close to Asriel since he’s the Dark World equivalent to a combination of Asriel’s remains, a green robe, devil horns, and maybe a pair of glasses. I think that makes him closer to an inanimate object (like Lancer being a card) to a Lightner. That being said, this is still an interesting hole in the theory that should be kept in mind.
Well, it would make sense. Maybe Asriel is the knight? Maybe he created the first Dark World and lives in it which is why he disappeared in the Light World. This would also explain why he can travel to the Cyber World without turning into stone.
I feel like Asriel being dead is plausible, but not in the exact way mentioned in the video. I doubt he would leave without saying goodbye or anything, so I feel like his death must have occurred either after he left or between him saying his goodbyes and leaving… on top of that, I feel like the knife in the closet stab scenario is a bit of a stretch, and rather, his death was likely accidental and Kris was the only one who knew. Another wonderful commenter suggested that the familiar song onion san heard is Asriel’s ringtone, so many Kris tried to keep people from trying to check in on him after his death? I had always gotten the impression that Kris was very attached to Asriel, so, what if Kris tried to tag along with Asriel on his way to college secretly and this resulted in a car accident? This could explain Kris’s potential guilt about his death without making them directly kill their brother. If Kris could collect the dust, maybe hide it in the closet (along with potentially either incriminating evidence or things that reminded them of Asriel too much), and then start looking for a way to bring him back…. Well, that’s what I find a little more plausible than a random attempted scare in a closet Kris had no reasonable idea whether someone would even be there to scare in the middle of the night lol
Another thing to note is that the reason why Frisk can kill so effectively in Undertale is because of their determination. By contrast, Kris wouldn’t be determined to kill Asriel at all. Plus, Asriel is no longer the small little guy we see at the end of the pacifist run; he’s an adult at this point and is likely around the same size as his parents. So it seems pretty unrealistic that Kris could kill Asriel by accident. Kris *could* be a murder-loving sociopath like Chara, but that’s a pretty big stretch.
I liked this theory until you said that Asriel was somehow dead. I like the idea that Ralsei was made by a lightners essence. But I don't think the essence was dust. Also if Asriel was dead how would have nobody noticed the dust in the closet? Or how suspicious Kris would have sounded? It just has too many holes for my liking.
That's fair! I personally think they wouldn't find it strange to see dust in some old closet, and since Kris is notoriously antisocial, I think they could have pulled this off while still flying under the radar. But that's just my opinion! I could still totally be wrong.
@@aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaeiou I whole heartedly agree. A Twist like this really has far more potential to be boring an uninteresting compared to the more dynamic situation that comes from broadening the story more with things like chess theory and all the characters we HAVENT met yet.
Yeah my female Asriel’s going to go the hell off if Asriel’s dead In deltarune, though i just really don’t want big rehashing of Undertale that wouldn’t be very [BIG SHOT].
@@cartoonistanonymousRoulxs is a rules card, that means he makes the rules, his own rules, not that he follows the actual established rules of other stuff
I've kinda fallen in love with this theory. I've seen many people say that Kris is evil and I've just never been able to see it. This theory paints Kris as a way more tragic character, and I couldn't agree more. Even if this isn't what's truly going on in Deltarune, the idea is so good on its own.
Exactly! “Kris is evil” is way too simplistic a justification. All “evil” characters in undertale had a huge backstory full of trauma to back their personalities. People need to remember Toby Fox is a master writer and would leave absolutely no weak points or much less plot holes.
I think the existance of this video will add +2years to deltarune complition becouse toby after seeing it will have to rewrite the plot coz it was already spoiled
I'm incredibly skeptical of the timeline/ explanation for Kris killing Asriel by accident. Especially the part where Asriel is supposed to have just disappeared at night to go to college. I struggle to believe that anyone would believe that Asriel, supposedly an incredibly nice and considerate church boy, would simply vanish off the face of the earth to go to school without telling anyone. That alone would require a kind of comedic stupidity on behalf of every single character in the game that I cannot believe anyone would actually write that. At the same time, how is he supposed to have even gotten to school in this story Kris is making up? Both Toriel and Asgore have cars, so they could take him, but obviously they couldn't take him in the story. For either of them to have taken him that would require the incredibly contrived situation in which Kris told the other parent that the opposite parent already took them, and this never being caught. Toriel and Asgore don't talk much, but they at least seem willing to talk about plans regarding Asriel given the scene in San's shop. This requires Kris to juggle two separate stories. If he tells someone "Oh Asgore took him" and they happen to go talk to Asgore and ask how the ride up was that immediately ruins the story and is incredibly suspicious. The same problem applies with other friends of Asriel taking him, like Pizzapants, who are confirmed to have a car. All someone has to do is ask Pizzapants (or whatever friend supposedly took him) how the ride was or what it was like at the school for the story to fall apart. The transportation problem again requires a level of comedic stupidity and contrivance for every single character involved I cannot believe anyone would actually write that. To my knowledge, we also don't know if Asriel even has his own car. Hypothetically he could have driven himself if he did, avoiding any transportation story inconsistencies. However, unless my characterization of Asriel is entirely wrong, I struggle to believe anyone would believe he would simply up and vanished for no reason in the middle of the night without telling anyone. It was also never even mentioned that Asriel vanished suddenly. No one ever said "hey it sure was weird that Asriel left without saying goodbye" or anything similar to my knowledge. I'm skeptical people would really trust Kris enough to take him as the only source for this. But even if they did take his word as gospel, I would expect someone (probably Pizzapants, but I could imagine Catty as well) to tell Kris they are still surprised Asriel left without saying goodbye when you talk to them about Asriel. The entire situation is incredibly contrived. Side point, if within this theory Ralsei is supposed to have actually walked from the school to the library, that would have required walking right past Undyne and the traffic jam. There's no specific reason Ralsei might want to hide to my knowledge, but it seems weird to me that Undyne wouldn't mention seeing a suspicious goat she didn't recognize. Maybe she was really distracted by bench pressing the cars, or later was distracted by having arrested the dog bandits, but it would be a hell of a thing to not mention for someone always on the lookout for bad guys. Additionally, using Asriel soul possession to explain Snowgrave only pushes the problem onto Asriel instead of Kris. You attempt to address this by saying that Flowey kills people in Undertale because of trauma. Maybe. But the real reason given in Undertale was *boredom* and not feeling love. Flowey tells us that he only kills people later, once he's exhausted every single good ending he could find. Even soulless, Flowey's initial actions were to try to be nice, try to make everyone happy. He only starts to experiment with killing people and seeing what happens when he becomes entirely numb to and bored of the kind routes. Unless Deltarune is taking place in a time loop (or every single instance of Deltarune is happening at the same time or some other funkiness) there isn't reason to assume that Asriel is bored and already knows everything that will happen and so is now willing to kill just to see what would happen. Assuming there is timeline funkiness, maybe this isnt the first loop (which could explain some of Kris' actions) in which case maybe. But there is nothing to go off of and is relying mostly on a mischaracterization of Flowey. But on the other hand, doing a reverse run of what happens with Chara and Asriel in Undertale does sound like a Toby Fox thing to do. So if this is the case I hope Toby has some serious explanations justifying it, because if not that's going to be an incredibly contrived mess that might undermine the entire game for the sake of cheap shock value.
To be certain, the specifics surrounding HOW Asriel died are very open to debate, as I really am just guessing in that regard. I know Asriel and Kris have to wind up in that closet, and Asriel has to die. I know that costume with the devil horns has to be in the closet with them, as it getting covered in Asriel's dust is necessary for it become Ralsei. I know Asriel had to have died sometime around when he was supposed to go to college, as that is the only way to explain how he could die without anyone noticing. It's possible he died the night before he was supposed to leave, but it's also possible he died after he said his goodbyes. Maybe he said goodbye, left town, came back because he forgot something, and then died in the closet. I really don't know the specifics. I'm certain there's a sequence of events that results in Asriel dead and everyone else thinking he's left college. I don't know exactly what that sequence of events consisted of, but I'm certain that's what happened. As for how Asriel got to college, I really don't know. I assume he has his own car. That would make the most sense. But again, I don't know the specifics. And like I said, I'm certain there's some sequence of events where Asriel seems to leave town, everyone sincerely believes he's left, but he's actually died up at the school. I'm certain that there's a way for that to play out that doesn't require some contrived tricks on Kris' part. Ralsei walking past Undyne would be strange. Ralsei appearing in the Light World at all would be strange. But as we know, Ralsei is a very strange entity that possesses unknown powers. Maybe he can teleport. Maybe in the Light World he's invisible. We really don't know. It's true that it took a minute for Flowey to become a monster. But like I said, the circumstances surrounding Flowey adn the circumstances surrounding DELTARUNE Asriel are drastically different. Maybe Asriel is more upset in this timeline. Who knows? But like I said in the video, even IF Asriel hasn't gone full sociopath, we can always fall back on the player as an explanation for Asriel's dark turn. Just like how the player makes Frisk turn evil, it's entirely possible that the player can make Asriel take a similarly dark path. And to be certain, if this theory is true, Toby Fox will present this story in a way that is subtle, masterful, and completely logical, and not contrived in the least. I'm quite certain of that. Regardless, thank you for the comment. x)
@@JaruJaruJ I've already stated this in a comment, but I think this explains why Ralsai was able to go to the library. There is a missing crayon owned by Asrial (We know it's his due to the painting in the playroom at the school). Due to Ralsai looking like a crayon, at least with his costume, theres a possibility that the crayon was another item covered in Asrials dust. This would allow Kris to bring the crayon with him to the library. Why then when you throw all items away, Ralsai is still alive? Another dissobediance possibly. After all, if Kris throws the crayon away, Asrial body would be gone forever.
"Additionally, using Asriel soul possession to explain Snowgrave only pushes the problem onto Asriel instead of Kris. You attempt to address this by saying that Flowey kills people in Undertale because of trauma. Maybe. But the real reason given in Undertale was boredom and not feeling love. Flowey tells us that he only kills people later, once he's exhausted every single good ending he could find." Is that not what a lot of people did? I dunno about you, but most people i see try to complete a normal route first before completing the snowgrave route out of boredom and curiosity.
@@s0rr03_ I dont see your point. Asriel is a separate entity from the player. The theory put forward in the video is that Asriel is the one responsible for snowgrave, and he is willing to do this because of trauma. (the player also has to have some level of influence on Asriel within this theory because Snowgrave is not the standard route and is only started by the player) My point is that this is a mischaracterization, because the reason it was being done was boredom. Therefore the motivating factor changes from traumatic death (as argued in the video) to being bored. For a hypothetical soul Asriel to be bored he would have to have been doing the events of this game over and over again. This would require a timeloop or something similar that we don't have any evidence of and has no clear meta comparison in Deltarune like resetting or reloading a save did in Undertale. Kris doesn't react when we do things differently when resetting or reloading, this indicates that Kris is not aware of the player resetting. I don't see any reason to assume that hypothetical soul Asriel would be either. If he is not aware, he cannot get bored, every time would be the first time and therefore not boring. If its not boring then there is no motivation to kill. If there is no motivation to kill there is no reason that Asriel would do it. Therefore it is unreasonable to claim he is responsible. Flowey's killing people bc he was bored thing was clearly intended to mirror the player's own motivation to do the genocide route. It was entirely independent of the player. Flowey did it before the player was in the picture, the player does not influence the willingness of Flowey to begin to kill. So if Asriel was in the same mindset as murdering time Flowey, then every route should be Snowgrave and the player should have to take extreme effort to change course away from violence. TLDR: the argument for Asriel being willing to kill bc of Flowey's actions in Undertale is bad because the circumstances which would result in Flowey killing are not met.
Very well Mr. Jaru. These are good things you pointed here... But.. there's one thing that's bothering me a bit about your theory... You said Kris killed Asriel and absorbed his soul... But If we check on the light world, the menu hud is the same as the one we had in Undertale, with the same options and the same specifications... including... EXP and LV. We can't say they work exactly as they work in Undertale, but, because of how it smells the same, everyone is tempted to say the answer is yes. But if we look to Kris' LV, we see that it's still on 1, wich mean... Kris didn't kill anyone on their life! What do u say, sir?
I see your point and thinking about it i think i have an answer (sorry my english my native language is spanish) There is a difference between killing in Undertale and the murder of asriel, the intentions As sans says there are he extermine points and Level of violence, but if you think, what are our intentions killing the monster, exactly, killing them, i think thank when sans says "Because you CAN you dont HAVE to do it", so if you see it like that, the Kris intentions was not killing His brother, he just want prank someone, so his extermine points dont go up because he didn't want to do that
@@josephalfredocordovavallej3358a lot of people in undertale will accidentally kill toriel because they arent sure of how they're supposed to get through the fight, but their love still increases when she dies. their exp increases because, as sans states, execution points simply measure the amount of harm the player has brought upon others, with no mentioning of what the intentions of that harm was
@@sunny.shootingstars True, that may not have been the *players* intention but frisk is basically meant to be a vessel, frisk had intent to kill because the player input "attack" that doesn't quite prove or deny what the person is saying, more importantly Kris still would gained exp whether or not he had any LV.
An answer to why Ralsei wants to recruit everybody could be to fulfill his purpose as a darkner. His world is the storage closet so he logically he would want many other darkners there. This also could explain why any darkner can exist there because there is no set theme.
In the Snowgrave Route when you use Snowgrave on darkners, they probably turn to red dust because they're DEAD. Ralsei doesn't do the same when he's knocked out because... well, he's only been knocked out. It's pretty obvious that Ralsei is Kris's old headband, so I bet when all the clothes fall to the floor it's because he's reverting back into his headband form. He's still there, he's just hidden by the clothes because he's a headband. Edit: P.S.: Ralsei's appearance is clearly based on Kris's hopes and dreams. They wanted to be a goat monster, and more like Asriel, hence why Ralsei is so much like him.
yea, that's what I'm saying its not that darkners don't drop their clothes when they die, its that snowgrave is a VIOLENT BLIZZARD that's so powerful and forceful that it rips darkners to shreds and scatters their gore and viscera to the wind
I have a few thoughts after watching the vid: - There are other darkners that seem to know a bit about the light world as well. Namely Queen, who clearly knows that her dark world is confined inside a library. She also knows Noelle and other lightners. It seems that darkners seem to retain some info from their light world counterparts. - Queen and King, Spamton and Jevil know each others, so either the computers from the librarby were in the unused classroom at some point, or the darkners can travel somehow between... their realms (somehow even before their respective fountains were created) - Adding to the last point, it seems that darkners have existed even before they were sprayed by the fountain. Maybe the fountain is not necessarly a life... bringer, but more of a way of mixing both worlds (while also confining them to that space) 👀 - To the point that Ralsei is a Flowey-like being; yes, it makes A TON of sense, but a small counter point: Flowey looks nothing like Asriel, while Ralsei is very similar to him. It may point to the fact that whatever Ralsei's light world counterpart may be somehow related to Asriel in looks, but the monster remains may be of someone other 👀 Of course this might be just dark-world stuff not working the same way as how Flowey was created, but still 😗 - I like the idea about "submissiveness" being related to why a darkner would persist for a longer time in a world, but maybe its also related to what would fit in the light world counterpart? Playing cards wouldnt really fit in a computer room, while... you wouldnt be surprised to find anything inside a storage room, which is what the lightworld counterpart of Ralsei's fountain is 👀
Thank you for the comment! My thoughts: -True! But Queen is a computer who uses the internet, so I think that's why she knows what she does about the Light World. -Also true! I would guess that, since Queen is a laptop and Spamton is a computer program who uses to live in Queen's mansion, that maybe that specific laptop used to be used by someone in the school? Like, maybe in used to belong to Gerson or someone else who worked at the school, but they then later donated the laptop to the library? That would explain it. -It definitely seems like Darkners have memories of some sort, but I always chalked that up to them remembering their time as mundane objects, and not because they used to be alive in some other way. Still, the world-mixing approach is also an interesting concept! -I'm inclined to think Ralsei looking different from Flowey IS just a product of his different origin, but the idea that Ralsei is ACTUALLY the reanimated remains of someone else (potentially multiple monsters like Dess AND Asriel?) is a very interesting concept! -That's a fantastic point! It would make perfect sense for a storage closet to be designed to house any object. Great point! Thank you again for the comment and the great points! x)
@@JaruJaruJ Personally, I don't think it mixes both worlds but rather that the object's history is "interpreted", because the darkners in the old classroom say they were abandonned, just like in the light world where children stopped playing with toys. The cyber world darkners don't say that which means it's not about dark worlds themselves but it was because of the classroom's history. Plus, Queen says "Unfortunately The World They Created" which implies the dark world was created when the knight made the fountain.
@@JaruJaruJ The Public Laptop (Queen) COULD have been Noelle's which would probably make sense since Noelle's Mom is literally the mayor of HomeTown. So perhaps the Holiday family is actually rich and has better Laptops, so they (Most likely the Mom) donated the Laptop to the computer Lab Edit: Yes, Ignored the Queen and Noelle relationship on purpose cuz I thought it was obvious
@@JaruJaruJ Considering Queen in this picture, there's one more thing that has to be taken in account on the matter of this theory: how about Asriel's room in Queen's castle? I mean, the fact that Kris closes their eyes while peeking at the door may allude to confirm this theory, it places a dubiousness in whether Kris is aware that Asriel is merged with their Soul or not. Not to mention the curious fact of Susie's reaction when she also peeks at Asriel's room as well.
1:02:00 Quick interjection: Ralsei isn’t a Card Kingdom Darkner. He’s the sole occupant of his own dark fountain, located in the schools closet. Which is also strange as all heck, because wouldn’t there be other supplies in the closet that could become Darkners? Why is Ralsei the only one? Also, it’s never mentioned that the Prime Fountain was created by the Knight, so where’d it come from? It couldn’t have been created that long ago unless literally no one ever goes to the schools supply closet. There’s a lot of mystery surrounding Ralsei that I excited to see resolved in future chapters. I’m personally holding the belief that Ralsei has been given a script from “time and space” (AKA probably Gaster) and sees it as his duty to make sure the story stays on a certain track. He knows when certain cutscenes are supposed to play and gets visibly concerned when they don’t. He’s aware of the player and seems to be trying his best to get into our good graces rather than Kris’s, probably knowing that we are controlling Kris. He displays awareness of the game mechanics. And so on and so forth. (Also, he tells Susie that only Kris can seal fountains, but never elaborates on why this is.) It’s likely that the core conflict of the game will be between these characters trying to escape their roles as game characters and the broader experiment Gaster is carrying out with us, the players. Things are very, very interesting indeed.
I feel like our "connection" and the dark fountains were made by the same thing and I don't mean like kris making a dark fountain. I am talking about how dark fountains came into being in that world in the first place. First, we have the fountains textures which look eerily similar to the background when Gaster talks to us. When our soul closes the fountains, it has the same outline as when we die (where Gaster talks to us) or the maker sequence. This outline is very clear to notice. It's only in places when you're not directly controlling Kris. There's also the fact that your soul feels "as if it was glowing" when near a fountain. So dark fountains might be a Gaster creation just like our connection the the game.
This is the greatest deltarune theory I have ever watched. Even if you are wrong I have IMMENSE respect for this theory and what it accomplished from the information of TWO chapters… TWO!!!!
there are two things that bother me about this theory the first thing that bothers me is that anyone, ESPECIALLY toriel and asgore, would believe kris when they say that asriel has headed off to college, without telling anyone but kris, without bringing any of his stuff with him, without saying goodbye to anyone in town, etc. im sure it would never cross their minds once that kris could be covering up asriels death, but while asgore may be a jolly enough fellow to take it on faith, toriel does not think that kris is perfect or incapable of lying, and something this ludicrous would be hard to believe. i SUPPOSE that it COULD be the case that asriel was getting ready to go to college, or was even on his way to college when the accident with kris happened, but the theory is already getting pretty thin at this point, and im not sure it can be stretched quite that far. the other thing that bothers me is that asriel going crazy doesnt make a lot of sense. in undertale, floweys singular goal was always to regain a soul, be it his own (impossible) or a humans (relatively more possible). asriel, even if he somehow loses all compassion, should have the same desire to become whole by gaining his own body, and logically understand that the best way to do that is NOT to ruin and murder all of his siblings friends. what he SHOULD do is, upon seeing ralsei, leave kris' soul, which we KNOW absorbed souls can do because we see it happen in the omega flowey fight, and fly into ralsei, which would then just result in a full asriel. asriel soul + asriel body + determination + personality of asriel = one full goat boy. being a part of kris doesnt seem to give him any extra powers, and in fact carries the large downside that at any time, kris can rip BOTH their souls out of themself, and then somehow shamble about without needing either. it COULD be that asriel has gotten a taste of the power to save and reload, and wants to take the timeline for a joy ride, but again, it doesnt make a lot of sense that he would want that. if flowey can still feel emotion, then asriel with his own soul still intact shouldnt be trying to cause kris as much suffering as he possibly can in as short a timespan as he can. i cant imagine asriel holding that much of a grudge, and even if he did, noelle is one of his friends too, no? we hear that asriel and dess took kris and noelle out into the forest when they were all younger, and noelle seems to have been constantly nice until snowgrave route, when... asriel convinces her to kill berdly? for the lols? the most plausible explanation for asriel not just going into ralsei is that he would lose the ability to save and reload, and asriel MIGHT hold a grudge against kris for killing him, but that doesnt explain why he would try to turn noelle into a murderer. and, actually, if asriel has been the one in charge all this time, wouldnt that mean that HES the one thats been researching how to use magic, and HES the one lying to toriel, asgore, and the whole town? i guess you could try to work around this by saying that asriel has, somehow, for some reason, been 'asleep' this entire time, and only 'wakes up' when gaster(?) talks to him in the opening cutscene. and why would gaster(?) be taunting asriel, literally going "heheh hey kid, go ahead and make a human body. hahaha no, you dont get one. get dicked nerd"? UNLESS, gaster(?) is talking to the PLAYER, and is taunting THEM, not letting them make a human body, and then making them control ASRIEL, who is controlling KRIS? WHY? i can see the logic you followed in order to get to this theory, but i cant imagine any path that toby could have followed to actually end up writing something this convoluted. i like your past theories, and this video has good points, but i dont think the conclusion you reached is whats really going on.
Maybe Toriel and Asgore believed them because that's around when Asgore got kicked out of the police force ? So Toriel might've thought he left so suddenly because if it's a pretty stressful situation and stuff ?
@@painslut parents are so involved in the college process. like this theory completely ignores the college application process like it’s a THING going to college. and toriel would def know what’s going on
You summed my thoughts up perfectly. It's definitely plausible and the story could play out like this, but with what we have to work with right now there are just too many leaps in logic to say that this is definitely the case, or even that it's likely. Further there are some foundational assumptions here that, if proven wrong, could knock out the whole theory.
Honeslty the theory just generally doesn't sit right with me. It feels overall too,milk toast edgy. I feel like it ruins so much of the game by saying we aren't the player. That means that kris's outbursts for control mean nothing. Using Undertale to say what deltarune does doesn't work. Plus as a plot twist,it's bad. It's so edgy and bad. It feels like it's put together to be shocking but it's not.. good
So in 2014 Toby tweeted that a game being made was “VERY,VERY similiar to one I had an idea for (not undertale)” If you go back to that tweet,in 2020 people are saying its Omori,and obviously his idea being deltarune. Alot of similarities between the two and Omocat and Toby contributed to each games. Then they dropped both helped drop that lore heavy Skies Forever Blue.
Holy heck, I never considered that maybe Ralsei is a special case that could be in the Light World despite being a Darkner! It also makes sense seeing how he came in last into the Cyber World, AFTER Kris and Susie confronted Queen.
@@JaruJaruJ Damn, this makes so much sense! Holy shark repellent, this is absolutely fantastic. I especially like how Asriel has a poster of a flower next to his bed. Easter egg perhaps...?
Going by this theory's logic, could it be that the second narrator who interrupts the first (many consider to be Gaster) during the character-creator opening and discards the vessel is Asriel? After all, they say no one can choose who they are in this world. Sounds like someone who can't choose for themselves if they're stuck in a Humans body.
Interesting idea! I hadn't considered that Asriel might be one of the voices we hear during that sequence. Would make sense for Asriel to have an opinion on the matter if Gaster was trying to influence Kris in some way. Fair point!
14:50 it’s always been my belief that Ralsei being able to go to any darkworld without turning into stone is the same principal as any darkner being able to live in the castle town darkworld. It’s described as a fountain of pure darkness, and it’s located in a closet where you can just thrown in anything and the darkners will be able to exist in it with no problem, whereas the other darkworlds were created specifically in one place for a specific cast of themed characters. If Ralsei’s item(s) were given life by the pure dark fountain (and also he’s the prince of the whole darkworld), he can belong in any darkworld just like any darkner can belong in the castle town/closet darkworld. Also, if the items we are assuming are Ralsei’s lightworld equivalent are correct, then the reason he can go anywhere Kris goes could be because those items are significant to them?
"Not once has frisk rebelled against the player" except they do? They tell everyond their name, move independently in multiple points of genocide, and i'm pretty sure they give some unsolicited answers to other characters that we can't hear. Frisk also isn't "the strongest wielder of determination" considering flowey could reset, and i'm inclined to believe the other humans can too. After all, determination is the will to go on. The reason they died is that they gave up hope, just liks chara when they deliberately decided to die to free monsters and then got shot down. The reason kris rebels is probably because, either A, the narrative role of the player changed from that of undertale (which probably isn't the case considering flowey tells us to leave frisk to live their life at the end of pacifist) B, kris is simply older than the undertale kids, at least looking at their height There's also to consider that frisk is in general quite less characterized than kris, so maybe they're just easier to control because of that + younger Anyway, point is, that part doesn't hold up very well
that's exactly what i think. the protagonists are designed with different intentions in mind. frisk was a classic projection protagonist- there's no playerless history to frisk, no playerless development to frisk, no playerless goals or endings achieved for frisk. meanwhile Kris gets all those, and even proper pronouns. Kris, without any of the game having taken place yet, is more of a person than Frisk ever was even after all was said and done. a lot of Undertale was designed to be meta. so much in it is just Toby fucking with players. while i can totally get behind the player-possession being an intentional red herring, i also can totally see it being apart of the narrative somehow. possibly not in the main one, but in the more meta elements to the side of it
I was also going to mention this. There's a True Lab segment where you run into Snowdrake's mother and you can heckle her, but if you select that, it says you said it... but then it says, "Wait, you didn't say that?" So we as the player told Frisk to say something awful and Frisk chose not to.
There's no indication that Frisk was responsible for any of that 'rebelling', when it could have been Chara. Flowey tells Chara to leave Frisk alone. We know from Genocide that Chara isn't us. Chara also identifies as a part of us that craves power. Frisk may still be us, if Flowey thinks they're talking to Chara. Flowey always mistakes us for Chara. Asriel doesn't. Chara naming us Frisk makes sense since we named them, and the 'voice' that speaks that line to Asriel is Chara's voice, and exclusively Chara's voice. They're the only one who ever speaks silently. When "Frisk" supposedly says something, you get a text box saying "You said X" or "You asserted X" etc. Chara's voice is silent in every instance, even when their text appears in the genocide route. I'm inclined to believe anything that is 'said' by "Frisk" that we don't directly pick is actually said by Chara. Food for thought. Frisk/The Player is far and away the strongest Single SOULed wielder of Determination we see, capable of standing up to the God of Hyperdeath in full powered form without being immediately deleted along with the rest of everything. We can be relatively sure that the SOUL, in both instances of Deltarune and Undertale, represents the player directly because it is the thing we most directly control. Without us, Frisk would not have a SOUL, and thus no culmination of their being or a will of their own. We can be reasonably sure they're not a darkner, nor a Flowey-like entity injected with Determination. Our SOUL remains the same in Deltarune, thus, we can conclude that we are still us. Still 'Frisk' as Chara named us, in a sense.
I think you've made a good call on the red herring of "Asriel is returning from college". There's been too much talk of it, too much foreshadowing for it to just play out mundanely. Maybe he's dead, maybe he's evil, there's a lot of possible twists that could occur. It could even be possible that he died and his essence fell onto the horn-headband... but it seems far-fetched to think Kris was wearing a Ralsei costume and accidental-stabbed Asriel. I don't agree that Asriel and Ralsei act "identically", or anywhere near so. We only saw Asriel post-Flowey, and very briefly pre-Flowey, but... Ralsei seems to prioritize kindness and peace above all else; but Asriel's curiosity and yearning for adventure will eventually override this. To put it another way, do you think a soulless Ralsei would ever go insane and start murdering people to see new things happen, even if he was stuck in a time loop for thousands of years? Another difference, ironically, is that Asriel has always struck me as an anxious, fearful sort. Note how he confesses his sins for dropping not-Yoshi into the pit, for instance. In contrast, Ralsei never really seems to doubt himself, always just charging forward and doing what he feels is right in his heart. See how quickly he spoke up when people started talking about making new Dark Fountains. It's really hard to explain, but I spend a long time analyzing Asriel's character traits for RP reasons, long before Deltarune was ever released. Thus, my immediate impression of Ralsei's behavior was "This is what people THINK Asriel is like, but it's not who he really is." Then again, who knows what happens when you merge Asriel's essence with an object that becomes a Darkner? Clearly there's SOME connection between Asriel and Ralsei... they look similar, their names are an anagram... but that's just it: they look SIMILAR but not identical, and their names aren't the same. Ralsei is something strange, most certainly... not a mere Darkner, highly unlikely to just be a Lightner. Definitely not just "Asriel" with no caveats. Why does he know all these prophecies...? Why does he know about the Light World? How did he get from Castletown to Cyberworld? I don't know if "he's Asriel's essence on some horns" explains any of that. Did Asriel's knowledge and understanding linger in him? He knows Kris' name and Susie's name, but why doesn't he know what other people look like until he sees them firsthand? Why does he claim to not know how to administer a hug? Why doesn't Noelle Tea give him much HP, if he knows her and likes her? At the very least, it explains how he got from place to place: a combination Lightner-Darkner would easily be able to shift from dimension to dimension. It's also plausible he'd have gotten to the Library unseen; only Undyne may have witnessed him, and she seemed preoccupied with car-lifting. No other witnesses... I think you're within a stone's throw of right. You've found a lot of great data, we just need a little more insight to put the pieces together.
There's too many holes in the theory No one would really find it strange that Asriel just decided to go to college one day randomly and never told anyone about it? He just.... left and only told Kris, and never contacted anyone after it, ever, only Kris, why isn't anyone not even a little bit mad at him? They all still hold him at high regard How didn't anyone notice dust in the closet? Not Alphys, not Toriel, not anyone that happened to go there after Asriel died Why does Kris gets weaker when they take Asriel's soul out? Also like ehh, i'm sorry but i don't like it lol, not because it doesn't make sense or because it's "too dark" it just feels unsatisfying But i do agree with the idea that "Kris will never have their brother back" I think he's alive and will return from college, but... he won't be the same, he'll be very different from the Asriel Kris knew before he went off to college, basically the complete opposite, and there's nothing Kris will be able to do about it really, people just change and that's natural, but Kris won't be able to accept it specially since Ralsei provides very clearly the difference between old Asriel and Current Asriel, then they'll snap and... do something, start the roaring maybe idk
Maybe he did really go to Collage, however, came back to visit Kris as a surprise. And that's when he died. If it happened recently, e.g. One day earlier, before the 1st Chapter, everything seems reasonable imo.
Okay, so, I've been watching your vids lately, and gotta say, I've been loving your theories so far. But this one I'm a bit skeptical over. Your ideas are sound, but I have a hard time believing Asriel just vanishes and no one seems to have much concern, just believing Asriel just left for college. I mean, Noelle's own sister disappears, and there was concern for her. Just seems a bit odd to me. Other than that, it's an interesting theory, even if I don't agree with all of it.
If an incident like the one he described happened the very night Asriel was supposed to leave for college, or something like that, I could maybe see it. The thing I'm having trouble understanding is how Toriel and Asgore wouldn't find it weird how their son always wants to video chat with Kris and never speak to them As someone staying away from home and who talks to my sibling a lot on the phone, my parents often want to speak to me as well and I just can't see Toriel ignoring the idea of popping in to say hi during one of their video calls That said, the idea of Ralsei being this world's version of Flowey is extremely intriguing to me. It makes way more sense than him being Asriel and there's a ton of connections between Ralsei and Flowey. The idea of Ralsei being an anagram actually being somewhat of a red herring but not being necessarily false also tracks So while I have doubts with the exact theory presented, the idea of Ralsei being the Flowey in deltarune makes a ton of sense to me After all, what did Flowey do all the time in Undertale? Pop out of nowhere, as though he could teleport Similar to Ralsei just always being where he needs to be Bit of a rant but yeah, it's interesting for sure
That's totally fine! To be certain, there's some finer details that I'm not 100% confident on, and the specifics surrounding when and how Asriel died without anyone noticing I'm uncertain on. If people think he's at college, and he's actually dead, then the best explanation I can think of is that he died right before or right after everyone thought he left for college. But, of course, I could be 100% off on that. This is all very speculative to be sure. Regardless, thank you for the comment!
@@JaruJaruJ Yeah, as Erin just presented, it's with Tory and Asgore I find conflict here. Toriel is known for being very protective of your children, so it is a bit suspicious there she seems alright, but then again, not entirely sure how long Asriel has been away yet. I think it's more interesting Noelle's sister, Dess, and her connection to the Dark Fountains, as Noelle states in Chapter too, finding a lot of the Dark World familiar. So clearly Dess, Asriel, and Noelle all have some connection with it. Not sure what more info we'll discover in the upcoming chapters, but I'm ready for it. That aside, I do really agree with the whole Ralsei/Flowey connection, especially with the idea of the Lightner/Darkner Determination fusion. Just not exactly sure how the Deltarune Asriel is involved, but you make a really good case. And I appreciate you hearing me out actually. Nice to see TH-camrs that respond to their audience. Keep up the good work, though! Looking forward to the next mind-blowing theories! :)
Yeah the whole idea requires that toriel wouldn’t drive to visit him at college. And is so inept that she both can’t use email and wouldn’t practically force him to show him the chat or whatever.
Interesting theory, too many contradictions and leaps in logic for my taste. You did forget one thing he could be, he could be a titan. His world looks like the description of a world destroyed by titans and the titan shadows do look a little like asgore. Also flowey likely lost his compassion after spending an eternity saving and loading and it’s hard to sympathize with people who behave like npcs in your mind
**sees theory** oh, kinda reminds me of omori's plot twist **remembers toby said that omori was one of the many inspirations for deltarune** oh. _oh no._
no, he said that it was like he was making his own thing and omori beat him to the punch at making something of that theme. your point still stands though. and i agree
I wanna cry why can’t Asriel have a happy ending outside of my headcannon ending for Undertale, where he has a busty female version of himself to enjoy as a actual adult, and say what you will at least Asriel, in porn isn’t suffering.
19:31 If Ralsei is Asriel, then the reason he looks different could be the same reason Kris and Susie look different in the dark world. Lightners just simply change appearance in the dark World
I just realised, this theory makes even more sense if you go to the library in Undertale, there's a section that reads: ''Monster funerals, technically speaking, are cool as heck. When monsters get old and kick the bucket, they turn into dust. At funerals, we take that dust and spread it on that person’s favorite thing. Then their essence will live on in that thing...'' That helps allot to support this theory.
I really like this theory. I'm not 100% convinced but it's well argued, and brought up a lot of very interesting ideas I hadn't considered before. One other thing this theory has going for it, though, is that it would helps explain why Noelle's older sister baggage got so much focus in Chapter 2. Like Kris, Noelle also had an older sibling who they loved and admired deeply, and who often acted as a protector for her. It's strongly implied that Dess either died or disappeared some time ago, and that Noelle is still deeply scarred by that even years later. If Asriel is secretly dead, however, then Noelle makes a great narrative foil for Kris. Her grief and possible guilt over Dess parallels Kris' grief and guilt over Asriel very nicely. It provides a useful way for the games to explore those themes before dropping the big reveal on us.
The theory that ralsei is an item covered with a monsters dust that was brought to life by a dark fountain is honestly something I never thought of but is very intriguing given the fact that that lore bit is directly mentioned by Alvin - it’s information we’re intended to know, and usually when key information is given, it has a payoff at some point in a story. The part where asriel is actually dead in this timeline loses me however. There’s countless contradictions and the story of kris accidentally killing him is absurdly presumptuous to the point you could make up pretty much anything in that period of time as to how asriel ‘died’ and it would make about as much sense as it. No offence of course - we just don’t have any information that can accurately piece that part of the story together at the moment. I think more likely Ralsei is connected to an alternate timeline - we already know that there is timeline mysteries just exploding out of the game, like gaster references, sans and papyrus’s mysterious existence in this timeline as he seems acutely aware that we have prior knowledge of him and his brother from before he first meets us, etc etc. Flowey is one of the only other characters connected to saves and timelines besides the skeletons and gaster, so with their presence in this world perhaps somehow flowey also was able to come to this world, or a variation of him at least. It’s obviously hard to say in the current state - it just makes more sense to me that ralsei would be connected to an asriel of a different world than that of this worlds asriel. Though, I still have my problems even with that slightly. Ralsei is shown to show quite a lot of affection to Kris, including borderline romantic implications occasionally, in a very childlike innocent way of course. It’s not hard for anyone to tell why that would be extremely weird with kris being asriels sibling. Though, I suppose it’s fair to suspect ralsei would have no sibling connection to kris if he was an asriel from a timeline where kris never existed and thus never knew them - there’s no reason that he couldn’t have a crush on kris if he’s never even met them before. But still - the connotations are just super weird and awkward. I think I’m still leaning a bit heavier on theories of ralsei being essentially kris’ monster-sona lmao. The person kris wants to be, has always wanted to be. Their determination to be a monster like the brother they idolize that so strong that it was able to physically bring ralsei to life as a being of pure determination coating kris’ old monster horns, unable to be carried around like other darkners.. perhaps because Catty taught kris about a dark magic practice that could ‘turn them into a monster’ perhaps by doing a seance like ritual using their pair of monster horns as a goal or source of determination and plunging their knife into the horns themselves or something similar. However, this ‘magic ritual’ was misinterpreted by catty and instead of turning kris into the monster they wanted to be, it simply brought to life the monster they wanted to be alongside them in a realm created entirely of determination. A bit of a stretch of course, but that’s sort of the nice thing about this part of the story/game - we don’t know everything so we all get to toss out our best guesses and see what’s right and what’s not eventually :] love the ideas here man! I always enjoy a video that can get my theories and thoughts going
The only issue I have with the theory is that in order to ensure no one would be suspicious this would have to have happened right before Asriel was suppose to go to college, Asriel would need his own car or some way to be transported without using Toriel's car, and NO ONE would be suspicious or concerned about Asriel just leaving for college in the middle of the night without saying goodbye to everyone. That last bit makes it really hard to fully believe the theory with how everyone loves Asriel. Though I have issues with the full theory it makes some actions in chapter 2 make more sense like cutting the tires to Toriel's car to limit her ability to try to drive outside of town just in case they can't get everything done by the goal they set.
Very fair! And yeah, that part of the theory is mostly speculation, as I don't know the specifics surrounding when/how Asriel died. All I know is that he died in that closet, Kris was there, the costume that became Ralsei was also there, and Asriel died at a point in time where nobody would find his disappearance odd. Maybe he died the night before he was supposed to leave, maybe he died the day after, I don't know. It just had to be around the time he was leaving for college to justify nobody thinking twice about his absence.
@@JaruJaruJ One guess I thought of is maybe Asriel came by for a surprise visit? Like he went to college a while back and went by at night either cause he forgot something or wanted to surprise his family. This would explain why everyone isn't super concerned yet since the last they knew Asriel went to college and unless someone stays up super late at night they wouldn't have any idea that Asriel came by.
Here's something I realised: Someone DOES address Ralsei as a Lightner, albeit indirectly. When you find Susie and Lancer chilling in the poolside chairs and being fanned off by the 2 guard guys, one of them specifically refers to you and Ralsei as "Lightners". Plural. He could be referring to Kris and Susie, sure, but that's not likely, since Susie was already there, and he then addresses Susie after saying "Lightners". There are only 6 people in that area, 2 of which are new arrivals, 3 others being Darkners for certain, and the last one being Susie. AND, he specifically says "Lightners", plural. As I said. Meaning that he does specifically recognise Ralsei as being a Lightner, along with Kris.
This makes me think of a couple other things... It could explain the scene where Kris is upset after Noelle nearly shocks them. If Asriel truly did die in a prank gone horribly wrong, and Kris almost met that same fate, I'm sure that would bring up some awful memories. Asriel being killed by their own siblings' hand would also certainly explain why Kris looks so damn depressed. But here's another thing: What about Dess Holiday? We never found out what happened to her either... maybe she was also accidentally killed? And possibly controlling Noelle at times? Maybe? I cannot explain what I'm thinking in full quite yet, but I feel like there is something there. I can FEEL it! You've really got my brain thinking 👀
Very true regarding the Kris/Noelle shock prank! That would be pretty bad for Kris' PTSD, to be sure. Would also explain why "it's horrible" is one of their possible responses. It could be that Dess was involved with all this! The idea that maybe Ralsei was created using a combination of Asriel and Dess' dust is an interesting concept that has been thrown around in the comments, so that's pretty interesting. Regardless, I'm very happy to hear that my video got your brain wheels spinning! Even if my theory is completely wrong, as long as it gets people thinking and discussing the game, that's good enough for me! Thank you very much for the comment. x)
I don't think Dess could be controlling Noelle, since both of them are monsters and the idea of the characters controlling one another is based off the fact that one could absorb the others' soul. That said, I definitely feel like Dess' disappearance has some relevance here.
I will point out that there is a MAJOR flaw in your personal theory for Deltarune's big twist. This is a big if, but IF we're in fact controlling Asriel in Kris' body, then this question needs explaining: Why does Noelle not recognize Asriel's voice in the Snowgrave route the moment she starts hearing another voice through Kris? If what you say is even REMOTELY true, then she HAS to...no, she is LEGALLY required to recognize that it's Asriel talking to her! And yet she doesn't anyway. This isn't a case of hearing Flowey. But hey, there might be a reason.
While I can't actually see any problems with the idea of Kris knowing and covering for Asriel in some way, him directly dying of a prank seems too... shallow for Toby to actually do. What I think is more likely is that they got into the bunker, and something happened there, if it is true that Asriel is dead. It is also much against Kris's known nature that they would hide such a thing- while they are mischievous and enjoy a good prank, actual harm or the DEATH of their brother is something that would certainly break them. While your theory covers a good number of holes, I think it could be improved upon surrounding the idea of Kris killing their brother. Good video! The overdramatic suspense gets a little much closer to the middle, but everything presented is really well organized and detailed. Great job! Also, continuing on the thought line of Asriel controlling Kris... If it is possible for the human souls to rebel against Asriel and Asriel against the fallen child, the rules of possession are clearly more nuanced than just sheer determination. Both of these examples are human v. monster souls, which could change the dynamic. The Fallen Child is clearly very determined as to likely have killed themselves to get monsters to the surface and persuade their brother to kill other humans. And if the human we see at the end of the genocide route is actually the Fallen Child, they are determined to stay around for approx. 100 years to see monster kind escape, or die trying. That is immeasurably determined in a dark way. Frisk, however, is immeasurable determined in a kind way - everything about their person, their clothing and items tells us that they were kindhearted and refused to fight. Their bandage was literally made to help them escape from battles first attempt. If that is true, why didn't they rebel during the genocide route? If that's the question, why didn't Kris rebel during the Snowgrave route? Perhaps these times of great tension from the thing possessing them would leave them unable to break the possessing parties' power- only when they are relaxed enough can they attempt to take control. Both the Underground and the Dark World are places outside of consequence as well. Resets are possible in both areas, with save points in both areas. If Kris and Frisk understand this, perhaps they also know that if the possessor is unsatisfied, they will just make them live through the hell of possession again. I still think the Player is the possessor in some way, but perhaps by secondhand power. A lot of things go back to the bunker in my mind, and whatever happened to Asriel likely is the same event we got control from. Whatever the case, I can't wait to see how Toby Fox will overturn and throw everything in my face. The gratification I get from his stories and plot twists is immeasurable and I can't wait for Ch3 and anything else to come from him.
Thank you very much! And yeah, it was a tad overdramatic, but I thought it was worth it for the extra flair. xD Regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if there were some details surrounding Asriel's death that I got wrong, as that's the part of the theory that has the most assumptions. Either way, thank you for the kind words and the comment! x)
This makes SO much sense I am actually reeling. Absolutely incredible. It solves every conundrum I was struggling with. You're so perceptive. Absolutely subscribing, I'm gonna be SPRINTING to this channel once chapters 3-5 drop.
This is a really great theory. Though hesitant on the third revelation, I’ll believe it for two reasons. One, humans absorbing boss monsters finally pays off in the story. Secondly, it solves the dilemma of Kris acting so differently from Frisk in terms of possession. I just have a few things that nag me. Wouldn’t Frisk have absorbed Toriel’s and Asgore’s souls throughout genocide and neutral runs of Undertale? If we’re controlling Asriel’s soul, wouldn’t it be white like the other monster souls. Also, the theme of free will is muddied a bit. The Spamton fight is dark because you the player are taking direct responsibility for controlling and traumatizing Kris. Filtering this through Asriel is not only convoluted, but makes the game’s central theme less potent. Edit: Soul color
Glad you like it! As for why Frisk didn't absorb Toriel or Asgore's souls, I don't know. We know they COULD have done it, that much is confirmed, but they chose not to for some reason. Hard to say. As for Asriel's soul being white, presumably, since Kris absorbed Asriel, Asriel's soul was integrated into Kris'. That's why we control Kris from inside their red soul. It's not that Kris has two separate souls bouncing around. It's that one soul is on the inside of the other. The theme of DELTARUNE is about how your choices don't matter. About the lack of free will the characters possess. Wouldn't Kris being puppeteered by multiple forces, and them having to remove their soul just to get a few moments of peace, play into that theme really well? Furthermore, the idea of Asriel being stuck inside of Kris, and having no choices that could reasonably restore him to life, plays into the core theme as well. It shows that not only does Kris have no choices that matter, but even if the person CONTROLLING Kris has no choices that matter. I think that makes the theme more potent, personally. Regardless, thank you for the kind words and the comment! :)
I need to say thanks for putting subtitles, this helps me A LOT. I'm not a native speaker and pretty sure other people isn't too, so the subtitles helps us understand difficult words or structures, thanks for taking the time. This whole theory has blown my mind, we'll see more with the next chapters come out. For now, this is the most convincing one that I figured out while looking at the video. Literally I was like "Wait... no, no, are you saying that... OMG" hahahs, thank you so much!
My somewhat basic theory about Ralsei is this: Since he was clearly based on Asriel, and could have potentially come from the drawing, he is a special Darkner, one created with more love and care. The other Darkners maybe not as much, seeing as Lancer is a playing card, and Rouxls Kaard is, well, a rules card. Still doesn't explain why he knows so much though. I got nothing on that one.
This theory makes some of Spamton's dialogue in both normal and Snowgrave more interesting. For one, while we already knew about the "heart on a chain" metaphor, this makes it twofold. Kris is a "heart on a chain" because their soul is being controlled by Asriel, and Asriel is literally just "a heart on a chain" because all that's left of him is his soul being controlled by the player. Secondly, it reinforces a line that I've been fascinated with ever since I saw in in the Snowgrave battle, that being "Don't blame me when you're crying in a broken home, wishing you'd let your old pal Spamton kill you." This theory gives a lot more weight to the broken home part of it, because while yes, you could say that Kris lives in one with Toriel and Asgore separated, it makes far more sense if Asriel is dead, as their family has literally been broken. One other small thing, it makes sense that Kris would close their eyes when looking into Asriel's room at Queen's mansion if they're still overwhelmed by guilt for having killed him.
As much as I love angst, I'm not sure how much I believe Asriel is dead, least of all by Kris' hands either accidentally or otherwise. I think spending the time a few videos back to convey how Kris isn't murderous like Chara, just weird but ultimately a good kid, flies in the face of killing their brother. Taking a page from KH lore, I feel like Ralsei is very similar to Xion, at least in terms of a) being similar to other beings (a replica similar to Riku replica) but b) being different because of a relationship related to their creation (Xion looks the way she does because of Sora and Kairi's relationship, I'd wager Ralsei looks and acts the way he does because of Kris and Asriel's relationship. I think he comes from the horns, I'm very strongly inclined to believe that because of how much it seems like Kris wants to be a monster either to fit in or look more like their family. I would also think Asriel either is as kind and patient as Ralsei, or Kris *wants* him to be, and that's why Ralsei takes the form and personality he does. Because there really is no emotional attachment to some cards or jacks and other miscellaneous toys, their forms being limited by the fountains near them makes sense, but there would be a strong emotional tie to the horns, meaning it makes sense that Ralsei would be able to follow Kris easier (of course, I could definitely be wrong about all of this, but it's fun to theorize).
@@TheRealSuperKirby fact Chara was “Not a good person” according to asriel additionally they seem to have a ... how to put this kindly? a intense dislike of humans id wager that the dreemurs (albeit unintentionally) made that dislike grow into a hatred and possibly into a homicidal hatred so I’m going to give another checkmate here lol
God damn... this theory is so nuts it could totally be accurate. like wow all of these theories have been good but this one hits different. I straight up got chills in that "so sorry" segment, ESPECIALLY that realization about never seeing Papyrus. Plus, if Asriel being dead is true, that line sans says about "he'll come around sometime your brother does" just fits him so well. he's always been the guy who knows way more than he should. Great video!
51:52 ,I feel that the pie is more important than in insight. In Undertale just one slice fills your maximum HP (I believe this happens because it's made from "mother's love" and because frisk in theory was influenced by chara the part of "mother's love" included them; and well Kris is literally Toriel's child). With this we can conclude a pie slice would affect Kris the same way as Frisk and that makes me think that an inventory full of slices would be very useful to adventure solo in the dark world (and also Kris doesn't seem in good health without the player soul maybe the pie was to have more time detached from the soul). Just wanted to share this though I had
That's a good thought, but I don't know if it's accurate. In Undertale, the reason why food heals us, is because it's made of magic, and we even have evidence for this, since we get to see that Toriel's oven is totally clean. While in Deltarune, she actually uses the oven, and prepares it like a normal pie. As it seems, monsters in Deltarune world aren't used to magic, so the chances of the pie having healing properties are really low
@@gabrielfrancisco7161 if I can counter point with the chalk Noelle gives you? In the light word it does nothing g but in the Dark World it heals for 120, so the pie could work like that
@@gabrielfrancisco7161 if you could have transported the hot choclate to chapter 2 we might have been able to test it after taking damage from way too much chocalate but chocolate being able to damage you supports your statement
Mmm, pretty interesting lore analysis in the first half of this video. But things get a little forced in the second half. Connecting the funeral ceremony of sprinkling ashes on an object and the dark world bringing objects to life, is pretty interesting. But nothing in that second theory really makes any sense. Toriel's son goes missing, and she just....believes that he went off to college? That doesn't make any sense. I thought you were going to suggest Asriel died and they lied to Kris about it, which is still a very weak theory. Every thing you mentioned about Kris's behavior is just like...completely normal behavior. They didn't need to be explained. Kris just misses their brother, and is eager for him to be home from college. Also, if Kris killed Asriel, they wouldn't be LVL 1, if you want to be a nerd about it.
Some of the finer details of the situation surrounding Asriel are definitely unclear, as I'm working with very limited information. But we know Asriel isn't present, and we know Toriel thinks he's at college, so it stands to reason that, for my theory to make sense, Asriel would have to have died at a point in time when his absence wouldn't be missed. As such, him dying the same day he was leaving for college would make the most sense. However, it's also possible that he secretly came home to surprise his parents but ended up dying before they realized he was visiting, or something like that. It's also totally possible that Asriel is alive, and Kris just misses them. Personally, I think that is the impression Toby Fox WANTS us to have, and thus I'm super suspicious of that impression, as Toby Fox loves to bamboozle us, but it could just be that this is all a total crackpot conspiracy theory on my part. As for the LV, I actually disagree. Nothing in Snowgrave gets you LV and beating up Asgore in UNDERTALE doesn't get you LV, so I think Kris accidently hurting Asriel wouldn't affect their LV either. LV is, according to Sans, "A way of measuring someone's capacity to hurt," so if Kris never wanted to hurt anyone, and thus had no capacity to hurt, then it stands to reason that their EXP/LV wouldn't increase. Could be wrong, but I don't think accidently hurting someone counts as an "Execution." Either way, I could definitely be wrong with this theory, and given how dark it is, I hope it is wrong! But I thought it was interesting enough to discuss, as it makes a lot of sense to me personally. Thank you for the comment. x)
My biggest opposition to this theory is mostly from a thematic standpoint. I much prefer the idea that everything that happens in the Snowgrave route is directly the player's fault. The Genocide Route in Undertale already attempted to demonstrate that, but it was done in such a way that a lot of players could throw Frisk or Chara under the bus if they didn't want to feel responsible for it. I don't like the idea of the same thing happening to Asriel. Toby Fox's strength is in deconstructing the relationship between the player and the game, but I feel like a lot of people miss it when they try to justify everything with in-univetse logic. Not saying this theory is bad or couldn't be done well, I just personally hope they go in a different direction.
I found your channel from your previous video about magic, and I was so excited to see you had just uploaded today. I mean this with absolute sincerity: You are the best Deltarune theorist I have EVER encountered. Not only are your theories so uniquely unheard of (seriously, this one I've literally NEVER even fathomed nor seen from anywhere else), but they are filled to the brim with research and citations that make them almost impossible not to believe!! I cannot wait to see more from you while we wait for the eventual release of the next chapters. Needless to say, I'll never look at Ralsei the same way again ...
Thank you so much! I'm honored and flattered that you found my theories so interesting and convincing! I hope I continue to make content you enjoy. I also hope you have a fantastic day!
While it is an interesting theory, the one thing that keeps me from getting too excited is the fact that we've only seen 2 out of 7 chapters so far. Each chapter can take anyone 3-7 hours give or take to beat depending on many variables, so that's anywhere from 15-35 hours of game we've yet to see. It'd be like trying to guess the plot of Kingdom Hearts 3 after only playing 1 and Chain of Memories. So much information is still unknown/yet to be revealed to us that quite literally anything can happen.
Oh absolutely! I am almost definitely wrong about some of this, if not all of this! There's way too much that we don't know for me to be super confident. Totally agree with you on that point.
This perfectly showcases what Jaru means about being a fanfiction writer instead of a theorist, dude just made a fanfic about Deltarune being an entirely different Quirky Earthbound Inspired RPG, there's so many holes in this crackpot conspiracy theory like taking the Jello Knife so damn seriously, and the entire rest of the cast having seemed to have said goodbye to Asriel before he went off on his Collegue Trip. But hey, as long as Jaru is having fun with his fanfic and isn't claiming it's objectively true, LOL, definitely not his best work though if you ask me.
Holy Moly Your theory legitimately sent chills down my spine. I don't know why I didn't watch this video soon because you come up with theories that just make so much sense
this theory may have its issues and be stretchy at parts but it was so interesting to watch, the script is so well written and the attention to detail is huge. my train of thoughts were guided by every point discussed and it was so satisfying how it was in sync every time. it has some strong points and i swear it got me interested to the end
This is a really cool theory. I’d look forward to something dark, yet darker than Undertale! But… to play devil’s advocate, and build the best theory possible; if the Dark World is related to Asriel’s death that Kris is trying to cover up, why would we have the option to go to tell Undyne about it in the police station in Chapter 1? Moreover, why would Toriel be okay with Asriel going to college without even telling her, and without a phone to contact her? We know she’d be worried sick! And if Asriel is controlling Kris, why would he be okay with seeing the existence of Ralsei? Separately, Frisk could also be unable to rebel due to them likely being a younger child. Even then, there are some instances where they do, albeit more moderately, like “You couldn’t think of anything to say”… “You decided xyz”, etc.
24:46 in many of chapter 1 gags we see lancer "teleporting" from one side of the room to the other. I don't know how much it can be considered lore but the fact that he is the only other "dark world being" that travelled from one dark world into another is kind of suspicious. Sorry for the bad english, love your video theories. edit: just noticed that they're both dark world princes, i guess I'm just overanalizing.
@@JaruJaruJ In the first "lancer cookie" gag you see lancer exiting the room on the right and immediatly after he comes up from the bottom. As I said it could be all just for the gag.
Don't forget about Rouxls, who literally beams in and out of rooms without even pretending to walk. Though from what we've explicitly seen, both Lancer and Rouxls's teleportation is confined to a single Dark World, and possibly within a limited distance as well.
I'm midway through the video, and I just wanna say, It ocurred to me that maybe Asriel created grand fountain as a way for Kris to make friends when he's away? After all it would make sense for an older brother to be protective, and giving him a guardian/friend in the form of Ralsei would make some sense, that would also explain Ralsei's will to befriend people and influence Kris to do the same. The similarities to Asriel can be explained as a way for Kris to get used to him faster, and the missing red horns Kris had can be explained as Asriel using them to create Ralsei. And given that's there's a possibility that the reason Kris is opening fountains is to keep experiencing adventures and making friends even if it's selfish could be a result of Asriel's plan being a little too successful. Ofc I just thought this theory on the spot, so there might be some problems with it. I am also afraid that it's the theory you're presenting in the video because again, I haven't finished yet. Anyway that's all for now!
That's a wonderful theory! I hope your theory is true and my theory is wrong. The fact that you presented this theory about halfway through the video is morbidly hilarious, considering what the second half of the video entails. xD
This is actually what I thought personally! That plus Ralsei possibly being made by Kris’ costume is the perfect excuse for Ralsei being pretty much just Azzy
Some things that confuse me (by around 55 minutes in): 1. Even if Kris was lying about Asriel's phone being broken, why don't they have their brother's number saved in their contacts? It would make no sense to delete his number nor would a broken phone erase the contact from other people's phones. Asriel should still be a contact, and his number would probably just ring out if the phone was broken. Unless Kris suddenly got a new phone around the time Asriel disappeared and didn't know his brother's number. 2. Assuming Kris broke into the school to prank someone who would be in the building the next day, that implies that the school year has begun. Colleges tend to start before or around the time of schools, so it would be odd if Asriel just disappeared off to college, especially if he has never talked about going to college. Wouldn't there be proof of enrollment or evidence of him applying? Also, wouldn't Toriel be suspicious if her son went off to college in the middle of the night without telling anyone? With no packed bags, clothes, or any of his possessions besides what he was wearing and his phone (which broke the same night he decided to just move to college mid-semester)? No note, no nothing? Who's paying for this college? Why is there no paper trail at all? Did Asriel have a secret stash of clothes and items packed and waiting for him as he climbed out his window into the night? Would Toriel and the whole town accept this on the testimony of one kid with no other proof? Also, even is Toriel doesn't understand email, why would no one else in town? Even is Asriel has a new email address at college, why is he only emailing Kris? Would he just stop using his old email entirely? Kris wouldn't have known his new email address without Asriel making contact first. If Asriel can send an email to his sibling, can't he send one to any of friends in town? It is hard to fathom everyone accepting that Asriel disappeared off to college in the middle of night and can only contact one person by email. No new phone, no use of his old email, no reaching out to people he was friends with with a new one. Just almost complete radio silence after vanishing abruptly. There are workarounds, and it is hard to imagine anyone, including Asriel, would be satisfied with this setup. Someone would have figured out how to make contact. Internet calls, video calls, email, social media, etc. Someone computer illiterate would have asked Kris for help to put them in contact with Kris, like Toriel asking Kris to set up a video call for her to see her son and make sure he's okay. Even if not that, wouldn't Toriel ask to read one of Asriel's emails, especially if she asks Asriel to write to her via Kris? 3. We've seen monsters take full, should be lethal hits and survive, especially if one's LV and EXP were low. Isn't malicious intent needed to down a monster, especially a boss monster who is an adult? One accidental hit shouldn't be enough to dust a monster, even if it was a serious one. Most higher level monsters need to be attacked multiple times with intent to defeat them.
That makes a lot of sense actually! That's almost certainly canon, to be honest. The rooms literally contain their internet search history, so it makes a lot of sense for those rooms to represent their profiles/accounts. Good point!
This begs the question what precisely counts as a "kill". If the requirement for gaining EXP is destroying the monster's soul, absorbing a boss monster's soul might not be enough to kill it. The monster could still technically be alive, especially since the soul alone still has the power to control its bearer. If that is the case, Kris might have killed Asriel's body without gaining EXP, because he absorbed Asriel's soul to potentially find a way to revive him later.
In Jaru's theory Asriel was killed by an *accident* . So Kris might not killed his brother by his hands. He could just be in the wrong place at the wrong time, thus not gaining any EXP.
@@IgorS. I mean, at the end of the day he did kill him. I don‘t think it‘s important if it‘s by accident. It is the action of the killing that has that effect on your soul, not your intention
I actually disagree! Nothing in Snowgrave gets you LV and beating up Asgore in UNDERTALE doesn't get you LV, so I think Kris accidently hurting Asriel wouldn't affect their LV either. LV is, according to Sans, "A way of measuring someone's capacity to hurt," so if Kris never wanted to hurt anyone, and thus had no capacity to hurt, then it stands to reason that their EXP/LV wouldn't increase. Could be wrong, but I don't think accidently hurting someone counts as an "Execution."
Well, you're definitely making a lot of testable predictions! I'd say that even one more chapter's release would confirm or disconfirm practically everything you have predicted in this video. I'm excited for the next release, and it'll be interesting to look back at these videos after that time!
I remember hearing a theory where the cutscene at the beginning of chapter 2 is actually a flashback to something entirely different. "Is that a... a knife!!?" Assuming that Asriel is the type of person to call his brother honey, I can definitely imagine that cutscene being closely associated with the theory you've come up with. Your idea could also explain the line, "Don't forget, I'm with you in the dark."
That one beggar Jigsawry says Ralsei will "call you honey" if you pay, to which Ralsei says he'd do it whether you paid them or not, which would maybe point to Asriel also being the type to call you honey👀
There is... a third option that is neither "joke about Kris eating pie and Toriel catching them" nor "Kris accidentally stabbing Asriel and Toriel catching the tragedy". Why does Kris, a troubled teenager with feelings of being somewhat "wrong", have a bandage on themselves at the start of the game? What is an action that requires Kris having a knife, Toriel being horrified, and Kris having a bandage?
I'm quite certain any evidence you're thinking of has been brought up a thousand times in these comments and has been debunked by me in the replies to said comments a thousand times as well. xP
@@JaruJaruJ I really do just struggle to believe that everybody accepts that Asriel just kind of vanished to college without saying goodbye, packing anything at all, or even a way to communicate. I think that this video just speculated too much. It is certainly an interpretation of what is shown in the games, I just don't think that it will be the actual route Toby chose for this game. I'm much more inclined to believe that a lot of Ralsei's abilities are just being understated and hidden than a plot of accidental murder, hiding evidence with a solution that is extremely temporary, and a possession plot line where the dead soul of Asriel is somehow controlling the significantly stronger human soul of Kris
Y'all ain't ready for this one.
Hi!
i love you jaru
ready to watch
@@sebastianmagana9004 Hello. x)
@@dawizard6668 We'll see if that's still true after you finish this video. xD
Theory: The reason Ralsei knows Kris' and Susie's names, as well as the layout of the school and the culture of Lightners, is because his glasses are made of Shadow Crystal and so he can see into the Light World even from the Dark World.
Oh! Wow. That's actually a REALLY interesting idea. Wait, Seam said the Shadow Mantle was missing, right? So maybe Ralsei has it! Oh wow. That actually makes a ton of sense! Great suggestion!
@@JaruJaruJ Here's another theory for you: Ralsei has been in contact with Gaster before. Specifically, Ralsei got the prophecy from Gaster. An allusion to the prophecy first showed up on the Deltarune website, written in wingdings. So, probably written by Gaster. Also, in chapter 1, Ralsei says that the prophecy was "foretold by time and space". You know who was said to have been "shattered across time and space" in Undertale? Gaster.
But Susie used them in Chapter 2 and never said anything
@@simonfigueredo265 The hell Susie never uses shadow crystals
@@Grandmother628
He is talking about the glasess
I think the biggest hole in this is that everyone takes Kris's work that Asriel goes off to college. No way Toriel just accepts that he drops off the map with no communication at all for months
Exactly, i think its kind of the opposite, everyone in the town is lying to kris about Asriel going to college, not Kris lying, everyone just completely believing Asriel just up and left one day AT NIGHT by the way, WITH 0 COMMUNICATION or without notifying ANYBODY is just extremely stupid.
@@IloveStarr doesn’t make sense, why would they say he’s coming back then?
@@ttracs could be just them delaying the news till kris is old and mature enough to understand, still doesnt make sense overall for asriel to be dead.
@@ttracs but theres barely anything known about the overall lore and plot of deltarune, theyre just kinda free roaming and sealing random fountains that pop up, itll probably take a serious shift in tone throughout the later chapters and reveal many things
@@IloveStarr doubt, telling kris straight up would be infinitely less heart breaking than realising he’s been dead all along.
I always thought that Ralsei was what Kris wanted to be as a child. The pink headband is what made me think of that. That's why Kris is so uncomfortable about Ralsei when you take the tea into the equation. Kris didn't want to be human, in fact I think Kris genuinely feels uncomfortable about other humans in general. Maybe what made Ralsei come to life was a drawing that Kris made of who they always wanted to be, more like their brother. After bitterly hiding the drawing and headband in the abandoned classroom Kris forgot about it. But because Kris has a lot of determination because they're a human, Ralsei ended up gaining a lot more power than he should have and gained more self awareness than every other darkner. That's why Ralsei looks like Asriel but also doesn't. Even the glasses could be explained by Kris knowing that their mom has similarly shaped glasses when she's reading. Why did Ralsei know Kris and Susie's names? It's because Ralsei is Kris and they're connected like that. That's why Ralsei knows that layout of the school, knows what homework is, etc.
So what your saying is, Ralsei is kris's fursona?
@@joshsmit2890 Yes
@@joshsmit2890 that'd be kinda cute lmao, could explain why he dislikes ralsei because other People might have bullied them for it
@@AdaTheWatcher that and a sona is saposed to be the best possable version of you, imagine you start an adventure with your highschool bully and not to long in you meet someone who is basicly you but (in your eyes) is better in every way, thats gotta lead to some issues...
Edit:cleaned writing
I really like this theory too because all we know about Kris for now is that they're most probably the only human in town. We've seen through context clues that the town isn't really use to Kris being a human, not even Toriel who we know took that book about how to take care of humans multiple times from the library.
I think Ralsei is very likely what an innocent Kris would've liked to be after noticing how different they were to monsters, to their own family and literally the whole town. Kris wanted to fit in, so he created a version of themselves that did so. Though as they grow up and maybe got bullied for being different, they started to also distance themselves from that. They started going for a different approach, they embraced being the odd one out, or more so playing into that image others had of them. The subtle dislike Kris shows to Ralsei in the dark world is most likely due to Kris still not fully loving themselves and accepting what they truly wanted as an innocent kid. Kinda how we all used to like something a lot in the past but we grow and then label it as cringe, sometimes other people convinced us that it is cringe, then we mature more and realize that's just what we liked and that it probably wasn't as bad.
That's my take on this at least
The fact that Asriel was able to tell Toriel he was coming to visit is pretty much the only detail needed to completely invalidate this theory
Yeah the whole time I was like but he’s coming in a week??
Furthermore, why is Asriel's soul red? Boss monster souls (and just any monster's soul in general) is white and upside down. Did Asriel somehow turn human?
@@LaCabraAsada because it’s not his soul, kris absorbed his soul apparently though I don’t believe this theory
@@randomcat1962 also what this theory is trying to say is that kris has told everyone that Asriel is coming back in a week
@@Kirbzzy That sounds very strechy.. when flowey absorbed the human souls, they didn't fuse toghether, they were simply confined to flowey, and it's not like that is only exclusive to humans; when he becomes Asriel and breaks the barrier, we see all of the monsters souls (which weren't merged)
Now ofcourse, that could just be because Flowey doesn't have a soul of his own, but I fail to see how anything would change if he did. What? The souls can't merge if he doesn't have a soul but they can if he does? What stops the other souls from merging with eachother when absorbed by a soulless being then?
It's all just so cirsumstancial.
lol i like how for the second half of the video he sounds like he's about to break down in tears and also start laughing hysterically.
I try. xP
i got to that part i am crying myself wtf 😭😭😭😭😭😭
the more the video goes on the more wild it gets im ngl 😭
him talking about old people not being able use to internet sounded like he was a mixture of dying inside and crying laughing
When I got there my only thoughts were "conspiracy theory Tik toker" 🥲
I think Ralsei *is* the headband but more importantly what the headband represented. It was Kris’ desire to belong fully to their family, to resemble them and not humans. The reason they’re so awkward around him is because he is what they feel they should have been: A well-behaved goat child rather than a rambunctious human prankster. We know Kris doesn’t like thinking about other humans because of how quick they shut the book about them when we interact with it in the library.
You mean Ralsei is Kris's fursona?????
@@lillian2342 **YES**
@@spyann1832 Was that meant to be a rebuttal to me or the video in general?
@@pteroid11 i accidentally put this in a reply section, sorry
I agree with this theory due to the red horns and such
"Ralsei is such a submissive character that he can conform to the will of any dark world."
i cannot fucking get over the word choice here
xD
and breedable?
@@LilacMonarchmaybe
@@LilacMonarch lmao
@@LilacMonarch J A I L
I feel like this theory started out really well and sounded possible, and then it went off the rails and stopped making sense half-way through. The thought of Asriel’s parents not questioning him going off the grid one night and not telling anyone beforehand is absurd. I expected you to propose that Asriel died without Kris knowing, and their parents told them that Asriel went to college as way to stop them from finding the truth. Also, the whole thing with Asriel being the player has way too many holes. Your argument about Frisk not rebelling doesn’t make sense because Frisk is designed to be a vessel for the player. Deltarune was quick to draw the line between Kris and the player, but Undertale never did (debatably it did actually when Frisk told Asriel their name in True Pacifist route). Frisk was portrayed as a complete blank slate, an entity that has no free will of its own that exists only as a bridge into the world of Undertale. In Deltarune we literally create a similar entity, the vessel at the beginning of chapter 1, but then it gets discarded, and we are thrust into control of Kris. It tells us “No one controls who they are in this world”. IN THIS WORLD. Comparing Kris and Frisk isn’t exactly something you can do here. This theory works in a vacuum, but in the context of some other aspects it quickly falls apart. But with some tweaking here and there, I think it can work as a solid explanation for a lot of the games mysteries.
… If Asriel’s death can create a darkner with his likeness and personality… then can Dess do the same, assuming that she died?
Food for thought.
Right. I'm not sure if he made a video about it, but I'm not sure the rules of undertale are one to one with deltarune. Things such as boss monsters and monsters dusting upon death may not even exist in deltarune, which pokes many holes in this.
Also, if kris wants to create dark worlds to separate themselves from asriel after seeing what happened in the snowgrave route... then why create a dark fountain in the living room.. when their mom is right there? Because according to jaru the motive was to protect his friends and family. Couldn't kris just do that away from the house where it's safer?
@@RinnMayyi had assumed this was in connection to the fact that lighteners dont die when their hp reaches zero. so if toriel gets hurt in the dark world she wouldnt be hurt in the light world. but not only did he never say that directly, its also be shown thats not strictly the case, berdly has some effects in the light world that were caused in the dark world. whether thats his arm in a violent playthrough, or him being unconscious/dead in the weird route.
Dude, you do realize the monsters are like the most gullible idiots ever right? Undyne believed anime was real, Papyrus doesn't even know when his friends are DEAD, Asgore and Muffet didnt take a mass evacuation seriously, Gaster yeeted himself into his own machine. Asriel and Chara almost kill their father with poisonous flowers because they misread "Cups of Butter", Toriel leaves a child unattended in the ruins, and then at some arbitrary point in time realizes "Oh no, that child is gonna probably fight asgore, and someone might die, I guess I should go like stop that or something lol." Mettaton wastes his neo form doing nothing and is easily tricked into exposing his EX form switch on neutral routes. and thats just undertale! Don't even get me started on Deltarune, The Police force is clearly incompetent, Alphy's a horrible teacher, the two "smartest" kids in her class can't solve elementary school puzzles, Asgore's business is failing because hes giving away all his products, and Toriel is clearly out of her depth with kris needing a handbook just to raise them.
Monsters are dumb AF, dont pretend otherwise, you could convince them to eat a spoonful of dirt if you told them it tasted like chocolate.
@@sasaki999pro1. Undyne didn’t know anime wasn’t real because she’s never even seen a human before let alone the surface
2. Papyrus probably deep down does know his friends are dead but doesn’t want to believe it
3. Muffet is a psychopath and asgore clearly isn’t in a good state of mind
4. We don’t even know what “Gaster fell into his own creation” really means, it might not have been an accident but rather on purpose.
5. Children are dumb and Chara isn’t even a monster
6. Toriel got sidetracked due to shenanigans with the annoying eating her phone and lost track of time
7. NEO is meant to show how strong the player is and Mettaton is very clearly vain and maybe even wanted to show off his EX Form
8. There is a lack of serious crime in hometown so they don’t really need a big police force, Undyne says that she wishes someone would build a bank so someone could rob it
9.Letting the NPC’s do most of the puzzles is bad game design
10. Asgore isn’t a good business owner and is clearly going through something that keeps his mind off of his business (divorce + probably other stuff too)
11. Parenting isn’t easy and especially for single mothers
12. Quirky and silly does not equal dumb
@@mysteryguy1440 just want to add for 11 that it was specifically a book on how to raise a human. itd make sense that toriel would borrow a book on how to take care of a child of a different fucking species
16:18 after hearing the theory beforehand, my idea was that his head didn't turn into stone because he had a pirate hat and an eyepatch. Pirating is something you can do on computers. So rouxls caard's face and head would fit in but the rest of his body wouldn't. That's only my idea though
clever!
The dark world be like "Hey you don't fit the theme! Initiate stone statue protocol! hold on is that an eyepatch. oh ok nvm ur head can stay. only the head tho"
in snowgrave his head turns to stone too even with the pirate hat and eyepatch
@@sahlaysta3399 Maybe his “ultimate attack” protected him partially?
I think he's just strong enough to stop his head turning to stone (unless it's snowgrave lol)
I have my own theory for all of this.
Ralsei is a darkner in the posession of a lightners soul. Think about it. Spamton wanted Kris's soul because he wanted to be free from his strings. So it stands to reason that posessing a Lightner's Soul frees you from the constraints of darkners. Stuff like, yknow not being able to exist in other dark fountains, or the Light World? And maybe even the power to save and load?
Now where could he have gotten it from?
Candidate 1: Dess Holiday
Dess's disappearance could very well be chalked up to her accidentally stumbling into a dark world and then perishing, where ralsei took her soul for himself.
Candidate 2: Asriel Dreemurr
Tbh i don't like this explanation, it explains that Asriel Ralsei connection but it also presumes Asriel is dead which i just don't buy, sorry
Candidate 3: Kris
I know this one sounds crazy, but i raise you this scenario. What if there was a timeline where the heroes failed? What if ralsei, at wit's end took the soul of that timeline's Kris, and used it to reset, returning everything to normal.
But there's a problem. If ralsei still has that Kris's soul, after the reset happens, they are left without one. An empty vessel, perfect for Gaster's program to connect to. And he puts our soul in Kris's body.
This fucking thing took me multiple rewrites and ended up taking me 2 hours to make and all it amounts to is a gosh darn comment on a video
Wow...
I love this theory, especially version 3, and I'm adopting it as my personal belief until further notice.
I don't think that ralsei could absorb dess's soul, on account of her being a non-boss monster /gen.
but theory three's really good /pos!
@@davidturner1595 actually, monster souls can still be taken if the monster is still alive.
@@edwardbo4666 oh, right, Asriel on True Pacifist, I completely forgot/gen
I'm fairly sure that it was stated (or at least implied) on the lore tablets in Waterfall that people or couldn't absorb the souls of living monsters, so that's probably why I was confused/neu.
When I hear this theory . It makes me think a little more deeply about certain things that The narrator said.
If you take The money from Asriel’s Storage and click on it again. The game will say “ you have already taken enough.”
And if you check out the book that asriel got from the library it say “ your brother will never return this book”
Yep! Lots of lines take on a much darker meaning if this is true. Kris having a flashback at the start of Chapter 2 where someone finds them with a knife and yells "NOOOO!" suddenly means something very different.
@@JaruJaruJ it does kind of seem up Toby’s alley. Considering Toby loves making something funny but having a secret dark meaning behind it.
Like at the beginning of chapter 2 were made to believe that Kris just went to get the pie and it was all just a joke at the end of chapter 1.
But in actuality he did eat the pie but at the same time he also most probably opened up the CyberWorld since as soon as he does that at the end of chapter 1 the cyber world exist.
So Azriel could’ve been keeping The book because the girl on the Cover was pretty but at the same time he could’ve returned it because he’s dead.
Also don’t you find it kind of strange he didn’t bring his “favorite book” with Him to college especially since it’s something he won’t return
Very good point!
@@JaruJaruJ also this could put into contacts what Spamton said “ don’t blame me when you’re crying in a broken home wishing you let your old pal Spamton kill you “
Actually Asriel wouldn’t return the book because he beat his let’s say cock of hypercum to it lmao.
I honestly think your theories are so wild and crazy and out there that they ain't gonna happen, but the way you present them is so entertaining, and I can't help but watch videos that are hours long about something I love
There's one thing that bugs me about this theory.
Toriel attempts to call Kris while they're in the dark world in Chapter 1, right after she couldn't find them. This explains to me that she's worried that Kris could have disappeared. Surely Toriel, who cares for both of her kids, would also want to check up on Asriel herself? It doesn't seem like her to not want to talk to Asriel.
That's fair. Maybe Toriel is content to communicate with Asriel through Kris? Like, maybe she's content with Kris relaying her messages? Or maybe Kris gave her an email to contact Asriel with, and she HAS been emailing him, but it's actually a fake email that Kris made, and it's really him replying to her on the other end? The specifics surrounding that are certainly open to speculation.
This also brings up something else, why can’t we call Asriel on our phones? I doubt it’s because he’s dead or missing, more that there’s also dialogue that hints that we’ll see him at the end of the week, or in other words after the final chapter, so I think it’s more likely that it’s for the sake of story, considering with the towns internet issues kris hasn’t been able to talk to Asriel online, based on some of Alphys’ dialogue
I'm betting it's because long-distance calls are super expensive.
@@JaruJaruJ I hate to be that guy, but...
them*
The reason why Ralsei seems to teleport to his castle town could be because his true form (whatever he is as a dark world being, if he is one) never left the closet. So, because that item is still in the closet, his true form was there. So, once you close the fountain, he just gets transported back in his castle.
Oh! Interesting idea! Maybe his true form exists somewhere in his castle (maybe on the higher floors?) and he's sorta astral projecting a version of himself out into the world? That's a really cool concept! Thanks for suggesting it!
That would also explain why he obi-wan's when he goes down. He's been knocked out so his form isn't there anymore.
@@JaruJaruJ
And it would explain why his body collapses into just clothes when knocked out.
He has to continuously maintain the astral projection for it to work.
If he is an item that belongs to Kris like the crayon or horns, maybe he technically belongs in any Dark World as long as he's with Kris.
@@thegreendragon5390 That makes sense!
The thing I always say when people bring up ralsei not turning into a statue is that ralsei said that castle town’s fountain is made of pure darkness and that’s why everyone can stay there. Ralsei being the prince of the dark, likely the dark as a whole probably means he’s made of the same stuff
THAT’S WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING!!!
Doesn't he directly say that's why he's able to go to other worlds? I swear I remember him saying that.
Raslei has o- blood
@@aidengoodrich5974 wait never mind he probably has the ab blood of darkworlds and his fountain is the o- of darkworlds
exactly this
I like to imagine Toby sees all these theory videos and just watched everyone go slowly insane trying to solve the deltarune lore like “mmm yes, very interesting, please continue”
Toby: “Proceed.”
Lol, now i'm imagining Toby casually watching theories, taking a sip of tea/coffee and being like "Hmmm, pretty close...NO YOU WERE ALMOST, WHY DID YOU SAID THAT?!"
@@grandevirtude9830 and it just becomes a domino effect of insanity- like:
yep, uh-huh, wait what? no lmfao, dude wtf, WHERE DID YOU GET THAT FROM? etc.
He probably laughs hysterically and thinks we're all dumb 😭😭
Two quick questions:
1) If Kris killed Asriel, even accidentally... why is their LV still 1? Killing a Froggit is enough to raise Frisk's to 2; I'd imagine killing a boss monster, their brother no less, would have granted Kris even more EXP.
2) UT tells us that the attacker's intent has as much impact on how much damage a monster takes as the monster's emotional state does. We see proof of this in the "fight" with Undyne after burning down her house, where, whether you fight or act -> fake punch, Undyne will only take 1 damage - not because her guard is up, but because Frisk doesn't want to hurt her. So could Kris even kill Asriel accidentally? And if not, I think we'd agree that they wouldn't try to actually hurt him on purpose, so...
I def think there's interesting stuff here, with the Flowey Ralsei parallels, and the idea of an item with a monster's dust being exposed to a dark fountain (I'm personally betting we'll see such a thing happen with Gerson's hammer), but I don't think the scenario you've proposed works.
I wonder if maybe Asriel was feeling sick or something, like how Chara got sick, and came back to look for his family as he was accidentally poisoned somehow, and that’s how he ended up dying suddenly at the school. This would mean that kris never harmed him.
Thank you for the comment! My thoughts:
1) I actually disagree regarding the LV. Nothing in Snowgrave gets you LV and beating up Asgore in UNDERTALE doesn't get you LV, so I think Kris accidently hurting Asriel wouldn't affect their LV either. LV is, according to Sans, "A way of measuring someone's capacity to hurt," so if Kris never wanted to hurt anyone, and thus had no capacity to hurt, then it stands to reason that their EXP/LV wouldn't increase. EXP is "Execution Points," and while I could be wrong, I don't think accidently hurting someone counts as an "Execution."
2) While it's true that the attacker's intent affects the severity of their attacks, I don't think that makes monsters immune to fatal accidents. If I accidently crash my car into Asriel, would he survive because I had no lethal intent? If a bowling ball fell on his head, would it do no damage because nobody was TRYING to hurt him? I don't think so. Same with the knife. Even if Kris had no lethal intent, a knife is still sharp, and monsters still have very weak bodies.
That's my interpterion anyway! Thank you again for the comment. x)
@@JaruJaruJ Fair enough on the intent point! But... I don't think your comparisons for LV work.
It is provable that LV works differently in the dark world - Kris and the party gain it from sealing fountains, but Kris still has LV 1 in the light world. And if directly killing Darkners like in Snowgrave would affect light world LV (even though you make the argument yourself that Darkners and monsters are substantially different, with Darkners likely even lacking SOULs), we haven't seen Kris kill any Darkners themself. That was all Noelle, and we don't get to see her light world LV.
As far as Asgore in UT goes... yeah, just "beating him up" shouldn't give Frisk EXP. Because the same is true for every other monster - you can bring them to a sliver of their life and then spare them. That being said, even if you have Frisk deal him the final blow instead of sparing him (and letting Flowey finish the job)... we technically don't get to see what their LV is at any point past that moment. If anything, it sure feels like they have a lot more health in the Photoshop Flowey fight than normal, considering how painful his attacks seem like they'd be. And there's no reason killing Asgore should be an exception to the gaining EXP/LV rule set by every other monster, considering in this circumstance Frisk makes the binary choice to do it.
I suppose it's true that technically, we haven't seen a human accidentally kill a monster and then been able to see their LV after.* But it feels like you're stretching the simply defined, well established rules to make this work. And considering you brought up the possibility of Ralsei being a human just to immediately point out how absurd it is for the sake of covering your bases, it feels weird that you wouldn't have thought to bring up this potential counter to your thesis in the vid.
Plus, for what it's worth, capacity to hurt and desire to hurt are not totally synonymous. You can hurt someone without meaning to, especially if we give you the point about intent not being that signifcant. And even if that makes it not technically an "execution", consider that Toby mainly chose that term over something like "murder points" because he could believably shorten it to EXP without raising any eyebrows until Sans's judgment. I mean, does killing a Froggit really count as "the carrying out of a sentence of death on a *condemned* person" or "killing as a *political act*"? It was close enough.
*EDIT: If I wanted, I could argue that killing Toriel in a previously pacifistic run actually counts as an accidental kill that provably increases your LV... but technically you could argue that Frisk always intends to kill Toriel there, regardless of the player's thought process. Still, something to consider.
@@AgentRaven The entire premise of LV is to measure your capacity to cause harm to others. That's its whole purpose. If it can't register that Snowgrave is evidence of Kris becoming increasingly capable of causing harm, then I think it's safe to say there are loopholes here.
Assaulting someone like Asgore until he's on the brink of death? Doesn't register as capacity to harm. Ordering someone else to commit murder? Doesn't register as capacity to harm. Even if Darkners don't count, Kris ordered Noelle to use a spell that is explicitly described as fatal on Berdly, a monster. As far as Kris knew, that would (and possibly did) kill Berdly in the Light World. As such, if that doesn't count, then I don't think an accident should count either.
If Kris was driving a car, and they accidently lost control, and it ran over a monster, should their LV increase? If Kris bumps into a shelf, a bowling ball falls off, and it hits someone on the head and kills them, should their LV increase? It wasn't intentional. Their capacity to harm, by all definitions, has not increased. Same with the knife. And like I said, it's entirely possible that the way I described it isn't 100% accurate. Maybe Asriel got spooked by Kris, Asriel tripped and fell and busted his head on a table, and that killed him. In that instance, Kris still kills him, still absorbs his soul, but doesn't directly stab him. Would that be sufficiently accidental to not result in Kris gaining LV? I'd say so.
I'm not sure what you're implying regarding me not covering my bases. It's weird that I forgot about Kris' stats in the Light World? This is a big game my man. There's a gargantuan number of tiny details that I'm trying to weave together. Some are going to slip through the cracks. I'm only human. Unlike Ralsei. xP
@@JaruJaruJ Wouldn’t it be Asriel that would order the death of Berdly and the Cyber City inhabitants in the Snowgrave route? As we only see Kris’ stats, and not Asriels’, wouldn’t it mean that we can’t see the effects of the Snowgrave run on Kris’ stats, as he technically wasn’t the one to do all that.
There are some elements I don’t entirely agree with, but it’s still interesting to see other peoples theories. The Flowey/Ralsei similarities are something I never thought of that is actually really interesting, though.
Indeed! There are actually additional similarities that some folks have brought up in the comments that I never even knew! For example, in the demo for UNDERTALE, it came with this instruction booklet that included a picture of Flowey saying he couldn't wait to meet us. And guess what? In the files of DELTARUNE Ralsei's instruction manual includes a picture of Ralsei saying he can't wait to meet us! It's kinda insane. xD
I feel like this theory is kind of a stretch but you still detroyed me emotionally with the whole idea so congrats. Unfortunately I can kinda see Toby Fox pulling an at least similar twist and boy am I not ready
My sincerest apologies. xD
Yeah I’m thinking with the whole theme of their being only one ending you can’t change, the ending will be us having to except asriel will never come to life even in a parallel narrative. Altho I think the whole murder in the closet thing might be a little too much to say too soon.
even in this universe asriel is dead sadge
given how interested toby is in deconstructing video game tropes and making the player take responsibility for their actions, and given what happened with chara- where the majority of the fandom saw them and immediately placed all the blame for their own choices on them- i just can't see toby introducing another possession character that he *knows* will be used as a scapegoat (ha) for every horrible thing the player chooses to do.
57:40 just a note, Frisk did rebel against players control one time at true pacifist run, when the player tells to frisk tease So cold, they just refuse to do it.
yeah well frisk didn't rip the players soul out and just do his own thing MULTIPLE TIMES
It's very little power compared to how much Kris tried to get control.
@@gongon5622 To be fair, frisk is like 8, they might not know what is exactly happening.
maybe even 6.
@@LUVHEARTSSS *they
Honestly, what I found most convincing is Sans saying you'll see Papyrus when your brother comes home implying you'll never see him because Asriel's dead. That sort of meta-joke is so incredibly Sans-y, as well as being a classic Toby Fox bait and switch.
I know right?! Plus, Sans hates "dirty brother killers," so maybe he's starting to realize that Kris might be a threat, and thus doesn't want Papyrus to hang out with them. Maybe Sans is suggesting they wait for Asriel to come home so that way Sans can have confirmation that Kris either is or is not a dirty brother killer. Makes sense for Sans!
@@JaruJaruJ I'm not sure if it's so easy for Sans to judge, but I think by that he probably already judged Kris. Therefore, either he knows what Kris did just like when Frisk killed one monster just to us know what happens or he isn't sure because killing Asriel wasn't intentional anyway
@@pedroivog.s.6870 That makes a lot of sense actually!
@@JaruJaruJ Wouldn't Sans be able to read from their expression though?
@@JaruJaruJ he looks at the camera tho... through out the game of deltarune the smarter characters of Kris,sans and ralsei clearly know of the player.
Your “who is Kris” theory was cool but the last theory about Asriel possessing Kris is totally a LOOONG stretch
Could be! Here's hoping I'm wrong! xD
@@JaruJaruJ what you are trying to do is the equivalent of punching a jigsaw puzzle in order for the pieces to fit together
@@gbyt034 It's a tough job, jigsaw punching. But someone's gotta do it. xD
@@JaruJaruJ honestly, while I don't agree with the entire theory, I do feel like a lot of these elements could be somewhat true, so while you might not have completed the entire jigsaw puzzle, several pieces are probably in place for other people to base their theories off of
@@JaruJaruJ you just generally seem to have a much more Toby way of thinking about things, because while other theories might be plausible in their own right, they all seem straightforward and like the simple way out, while you go genuinely insane and connect all the dots we have to connect, in a way that no other theories can even come close to, so just plain respect to your ideas and I hope you keep going with these
I love how the one chapter is just “oh god please no”
Thanks. xD
this has been my opinion on this whole video, i am banging my head against my desk but i can't stop watching because it's such a trainwreck
Here’s what I believe. Ralsei is a darkner. A PURE darkner. Do you remember what he says to Susie and kris when lancer turned into a statue? “Castle Towns dark fountain is made of PURE DARKNESS!” This type of darkness allows him to enter different dark worlds and not turn into stone. He is a pure blooded darkner and that is why he is “the prince of the kingdom of darkness”
Could be! That's definitely a valid possibility. Maybe Ralsei is a Boss Darkner kinda like how the Dreemurs are Boss Monsters. Would make some sense!
Then why does he resemble asriel
@@interdimensionalgoober8769 honestly I don’t have an answer for that. However I don’t believe that Ralsei is asriel. It just seems too easy for Toby Fox to do.
@@ndisfoshiz well he couldn’t take outside influence and still be pure, so him being a standalone just dosen’t check out.
@@interdimensionalgoober8769 Could just be a red herring. Also, I don't think he looks as clearly like Asriel than most people act. He looks like that species, but he doesn't really resemble Asriel noticeably more than Toriel.
this was really entertaining to watch, like i'm in a chair in a dimly lit room with someone who's going off the deep end while thoroughly explaining to me a conspiracy board with 83 pictures and documents pinned onto it. please keep up the good work lmao
this. this right here exactly
Yeah it literally sounds exactly like a conspiracy theory
This is the Charlie in the mailroom theory of Deltarune
that was oddly specific... 🤨
CW: Suicide
This is a super convincing theory but I see that people in the comments pointing out that Kris couldn't have killed Asriel without gaining EXP or LV. And a really dark theory came to my mind:
What if Asriel took their own life? Like maybe the pressure of college or his parent's divorce or any other reasons we may find out in later chapters could have driven him to this point (maybe Asriel found out about not having control over his own life much like Jevil/Spamton... which could have been too much for him to handle). And Kris happened to come across his brother during this (like Kris was about to perform said prank in the costume but saw their depressed brother wandering off and followed him). Kris tried to stop him but is too late, causing Asriel's dust to spread across the costume and his soul to merge with Kris'. In a panic, Kris hides the costume in the closet and is traumatized by all this. They don't know what to do and they don't want to break the news to ANYONE. Thus they cover up by saying Asriel is off at college. And they desperately try to find a solution to this before summer break rolls around since they cannot keep up this lie without drawing suspicion. That's why they get into the occult as a means to revive their brother. They would find out about the dark fountains eventually (the jello knife could have been their first attempt at making the first fountain to avoid any suspicion of Toriel's kitchen utensils gone missing). Once Kris sees Ralsei after entering the first fountain, THAT's why Kris makes more fountains despite awful things like the snowgrave route. Kris desperately wants to make the fountains in hopes to see/revive their brother while Asriel controlling Kris's body wants to seal them back up (as a sort hint to Kris to move on with their life and avoid the Roaring)
Damn I hope I am wrong, this is just far too dark, but this definitely lines up with this theory so well... This makes some scenes like the swan boat ride hug scene so much more heart-wrenching. I really, REALLY want to be wrong.
I love it! That might be even more compelling that Kris murdering him! Great idea!
If Asriel really comitted suicide as a means to escape trauma in his life, wouldn't him going into Kris' body and controlling them render their suicide irrelevant?
@@Mr.KokoPudgeFudge
They mean Extermination Points, not Experience.
@@motivated2473 OK, but my 2nd point still stands.
@@Mr.KokoPudgeFudge Good point. theoretically in undertale you kill multiple monsters and plenty of them are bosses in the genocide route. In that case you would've absorbed their souls, but they never indicate that the monsters have any control over that persons body. the only time they seem to display some control is possibly when Asriel collects all the monster souls of the underground. Maybe any monster soul that is too weak to sustain itself is simply absorbed, but with enough power they can persist? This is all speculatory of course. If it were the case then Asriel never gained any control over Kris, but still could be a reason for his ability to move without his human soul. This would also be supported by how he struggles to move without his human soul.
Edit: Asriel does go through the barrier after taking the soul of chara, but it took every bit of strength left in him to stop chara from killing all the humans, so that might actually support that a human soul has more control than a monster soul.
piles of asriel's dust ..................
dunst, ,,,,, ,, ,,,,,,,, ,,, ,, asrael trauma spectum.....,,,,,,,, , ,,,,,,, ,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,
Less than half-way though and just wanna say-
Another HUGE problem with the concept of Ralsei being Asriel is his behavior around Kris.
Someone shouldn’t be getting all flustered around their adoptive brother. If Ralsei is straight up Asriel, Toby has a lot of explaining to do.
Yeah, Ralsei isn't just straight-up Asriel. I'm confident in that.
I doubt Ralsei knows that they are Asriel in this scenario
Even if Ralsei is another version of Asriel as explained in the video, I don’t think he’d actually know he used to be asriel.. so him having those feelings for Kris isn’t inherently wrong from his part if that makes sense
When a Lightner enters a Dark World, they become a different (at the very least, different-looking) version of themselves. Susie can use Rude Buster in Chapter 1 and Noelle can use her magic immediately so I think it’s safe to say they have some different attributes, but still the same memories, personalities, etc.
Ralsei isn’t that close to Asriel since he’s the Dark World equivalent to a combination of Asriel’s remains, a green robe, devil horns, and maybe a pair of glasses. I think that makes him closer to an inanimate object (like Lancer being a card) to a Lightner.
That being said, this is still an interesting hole in the theory that should be kept in mind.
Well, it would make sense. Maybe Asriel is the knight? Maybe he created the first Dark World and lives in it which is why he disappeared in the Light World. This would also explain why he can travel to the Cyber World without turning into stone.
I feel like Asriel being dead is plausible, but not in the exact way mentioned in the video.
I doubt he would leave without saying goodbye or anything, so I feel like his death must have occurred either after he left or between him saying his goodbyes and leaving… on top of that, I feel like the knife in the closet stab scenario is a bit of a stretch, and rather, his death was likely accidental and Kris was the only one who knew. Another wonderful commenter suggested that the familiar song onion san heard is Asriel’s ringtone, so many Kris tried to keep people from trying to check in on him after his death? I had always gotten the impression that Kris was very attached to Asriel, so, what if Kris tried to tag along with Asriel on his way to college secretly and this resulted in a car accident? This could explain Kris’s potential guilt about his death without making them directly kill their brother. If Kris could collect the dust, maybe hide it in the closet (along with potentially either incriminating evidence or things that reminded them of Asriel too much), and then start looking for a way to bring him back…. Well, that’s what I find a little more plausible than a random attempted scare in a closet Kris had no reasonable idea whether someone would even be there to scare in the middle of the night lol
Another thing to note is that the reason why Frisk can kill so effectively in Undertale is because of their determination. By contrast, Kris wouldn’t be determined to kill Asriel at all. Plus, Asriel is no longer the small little guy we see at the end of the pacifist run; he’s an adult at this point and is likely around the same size as his parents. So it seems pretty unrealistic that Kris could kill Asriel by accident. Kris *could* be a murder-loving sociopath like Chara, but that’s a pretty big stretch.
For all we know Kris did it on purpose. Flowey and Ralesi are DEFINITELY related though
@@FlareBlitzBanana chara in the genocide route*
Kris dumped Asriel's body in a lake like in Psycho? Damn, that's cold
@@stuff31 oh no, I would have meant his phone lol bc of the ringtone. Not like if Asriel was alive it would make sense for Kris to have his phone yk
I liked this theory until you said that Asriel was somehow dead. I like the idea that Ralsei was made by a lightners essence. But I don't think the essence was dust. Also if Asriel was dead how would have nobody noticed the dust in the closet? Or how suspicious Kris would have sounded? It just has too many holes for my liking.
That's fair! I personally think they wouldn't find it strange to see dust in some old closet, and since Kris is notoriously antisocial, I think they could have pulled this off while still flying under the radar. But that's just my opinion! I could still totally be wrong.
@@aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaeiou I whole heartedly agree. A Twist like this really has far more potential to be boring an uninteresting compared to the more dynamic situation that comes from broadening the story more with things like chess theory and all the characters we HAVENT met yet.
@@aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaeiou Ong I also thought that IMMEDIATELY
Yeah my female Asriel’s going to go the hell off if Asriel’s dead In deltarune, though i just really don’t want big rehashing of Undertale that wouldn’t be very [BIG SHOT].
@@aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaeiou James Sunderland murdered Mary willingly though he just can’t accept that she’s actually gone since he felt bad after.
16:32 I believe the reason he didn’t fully turn to stone is because he’s a pirate and piracy exists on the internet
*wants to be head minion*
*Monkeys paw curls*
@@benhamstermy thoughts exactly
He wanted to be HEAD minion
so his head didn't turn into stone!!
But why is Rouxls a pirate in the first place, Pirates don't follow the rules?
@@cartoonistanonymousRoulxs is a rules card, that means he makes the rules, his own rules, not that he follows the actual established rules of other stuff
I've kinda fallen in love with this theory. I've seen many people say that Kris is evil and I've just never been able to see it. This theory paints Kris as a way more tragic character, and I couldn't agree more. Even if this isn't what's truly going on in Deltarune, the idea is so good on its own.
Thank you! x)
Exactly! “Kris is evil” is way too simplistic a justification. All “evil” characters in undertale had a huge backstory full of trauma to back their personalities. People need to remember Toby Fox is a master writer and would leave absolutely no weak points or much less plot holes.
@@EnzoFoove "... Much less potholes"
What about Gaster then, there's almost only plot holes when it comes to him
@@Mr.Carrot Gaster is the exception that proves the rule, and is that way on purpose
I think the existance of this video will add +2years to deltarune complition becouse toby after seeing it will have to rewrite the plot coz it was already spoiled
I'm incredibly skeptical of the timeline/ explanation for Kris killing Asriel by accident. Especially the part where Asriel is supposed to have just disappeared at night to go to college.
I struggle to believe that anyone would believe that Asriel, supposedly an incredibly nice and considerate church boy, would simply vanish off the face of the earth to go to school without telling anyone. That alone would require a kind of comedic stupidity on behalf of every single character in the game that I cannot believe anyone would actually write that.
At the same time, how is he supposed to have even gotten to school in this story Kris is making up? Both Toriel and Asgore have cars, so they could take him, but obviously they couldn't take him in the story. For either of them to have taken him that would require the incredibly contrived situation in which Kris told the other parent that the opposite parent already took them, and this never being caught. Toriel and Asgore don't talk much, but they at least seem willing to talk about plans regarding Asriel given the scene in San's shop. This requires Kris to juggle two separate stories. If he tells someone "Oh Asgore took him" and they happen to go talk to Asgore and ask how the ride up was that immediately ruins the story and is incredibly suspicious.
The same problem applies with other friends of Asriel taking him, like Pizzapants, who are confirmed to have a car. All someone has to do is ask Pizzapants (or whatever friend supposedly took him) how the ride was or what it was like at the school for the story to fall apart. The transportation problem again requires a level of comedic stupidity and contrivance for every single character involved I cannot believe anyone would actually write that.
To my knowledge, we also don't know if Asriel even has his own car. Hypothetically he could have driven himself if he did, avoiding any transportation story inconsistencies. However, unless my characterization of Asriel is entirely wrong, I struggle to believe anyone would believe he would simply up and vanished for no reason in the middle of the night without telling anyone.
It was also never even mentioned that Asriel vanished suddenly. No one ever said "hey it sure was weird that Asriel left without saying goodbye" or anything similar to my knowledge. I'm skeptical people would really trust Kris enough to take him as the only source for this. But even if they did take his word as gospel, I would expect someone (probably Pizzapants, but I could imagine Catty as well) to tell Kris they are still surprised Asriel left without saying goodbye when you talk to them about Asriel.
The entire situation is incredibly contrived.
Side point, if within this theory Ralsei is supposed to have actually walked from the school to the library, that would have required walking right past Undyne and the traffic jam. There's no specific reason Ralsei might want to hide to my knowledge, but it seems weird to me that Undyne wouldn't mention seeing a suspicious goat she didn't recognize. Maybe she was really distracted by bench pressing the cars, or later was distracted by having arrested the dog bandits, but it would be a hell of a thing to not mention for someone always on the lookout for bad guys.
Additionally, using Asriel soul possession to explain Snowgrave only pushes the problem onto Asriel instead of Kris. You attempt to address this by saying that Flowey kills people in Undertale because of trauma. Maybe. But the real reason given in Undertale was *boredom* and not feeling love. Flowey tells us that he only kills people later, once he's exhausted every single good ending he could find. Even soulless, Flowey's initial actions were to try to be nice, try to make everyone happy. He only starts to experiment with killing people and seeing what happens when he becomes entirely numb to and bored of the kind routes. Unless Deltarune is taking place in a time loop (or every single instance of Deltarune is happening at the same time or some other funkiness) there isn't reason to assume that Asriel is bored and already knows everything that will happen and so is now willing to kill just to see what would happen. Assuming there is timeline funkiness, maybe this isnt the first loop (which could explain some of Kris' actions) in which case maybe. But there is nothing to go off of and is relying mostly on a mischaracterization of Flowey.
But on the other hand, doing a reverse run of what happens with Chara and Asriel in Undertale does sound like a Toby Fox thing to do. So if this is the case I hope Toby has some serious explanations justifying it, because if not that's going to be an incredibly contrived mess that might undermine the entire game for the sake of cheap shock value.
To be certain, the specifics surrounding HOW Asriel died are very open to debate, as I really am just guessing in that regard. I know Asriel and Kris have to wind up in that closet, and Asriel has to die. I know that costume with the devil horns has to be in the closet with them, as it getting covered in Asriel's dust is necessary for it become Ralsei. I know Asriel had to have died sometime around when he was supposed to go to college, as that is the only way to explain how he could die without anyone noticing. It's possible he died the night before he was supposed to leave, but it's also possible he died after he said his goodbyes. Maybe he said goodbye, left town, came back because he forgot something, and then died in the closet. I really don't know the specifics. I'm certain there's a sequence of events that results in Asriel dead and everyone else thinking he's left college. I don't know exactly what that sequence of events consisted of, but I'm certain that's what happened.
As for how Asriel got to college, I really don't know. I assume he has his own car. That would make the most sense. But again, I don't know the specifics. And like I said, I'm certain there's some sequence of events where Asriel seems to leave town, everyone sincerely believes he's left, but he's actually died up at the school. I'm certain that there's a way for that to play out that doesn't require some contrived tricks on Kris' part.
Ralsei walking past Undyne would be strange. Ralsei appearing in the Light World at all would be strange. But as we know, Ralsei is a very strange entity that possesses unknown powers. Maybe he can teleport. Maybe in the Light World he's invisible. We really don't know.
It's true that it took a minute for Flowey to become a monster. But like I said, the circumstances surrounding Flowey adn the circumstances surrounding DELTARUNE Asriel are drastically different. Maybe Asriel is more upset in this timeline. Who knows? But like I said in the video, even IF Asriel hasn't gone full sociopath, we can always fall back on the player as an explanation for Asriel's dark turn. Just like how the player makes Frisk turn evil, it's entirely possible that the player can make Asriel take a similarly dark path.
And to be certain, if this theory is true, Toby Fox will present this story in a way that is subtle, masterful, and completely logical, and not contrived in the least. I'm quite certain of that. Regardless, thank you for the comment. x)
@@JaruJaruJ I've already stated this in a comment, but I think this explains why Ralsai was able to go to the library. There is a missing crayon owned by Asrial (We know it's his due to the painting in the playroom at the school). Due to Ralsai looking like a crayon, at least with his costume, theres a possibility that the crayon was another item covered in Asrials dust. This would allow Kris to bring the crayon with him to the library. Why then when you throw all items away, Ralsai is still alive? Another dissobediance possibly. After all, if Kris throws the crayon away, Asrial body would be gone forever.
@@robomanredstone Could be! It would rely on the assumption of Kris hiding Ralsei's object from us, but it could still be the case for sure.
"Additionally, using Asriel soul possession to explain Snowgrave only pushes the problem onto Asriel instead of Kris. You attempt to address this by saying that Flowey kills people in Undertale because of trauma. Maybe. But the real reason given in Undertale was boredom and not feeling love. Flowey tells us that he only kills people later, once he's exhausted every single good ending he could find." Is that not what a lot of people did? I dunno about you, but most people i see try to complete a normal route first before completing the snowgrave route out of boredom and curiosity.
@@s0rr03_ I dont see your point. Asriel is a separate entity from the player.
The theory put forward in the video is that Asriel is the one responsible for snowgrave, and he is willing to do this because of trauma. (the player also has to have some level of influence on Asriel within this theory because Snowgrave is not the standard route and is only started by the player)
My point is that this is a mischaracterization, because the reason it was being done was boredom. Therefore the motivating factor changes from traumatic death (as argued in the video) to being bored. For a hypothetical soul Asriel to be bored he would have to have been doing the events of this game over and over again. This would require a timeloop or something similar that we don't have any evidence of and has no clear meta comparison in Deltarune like resetting or reloading a save did in Undertale.
Kris doesn't react when we do things differently when resetting or reloading, this indicates that Kris is not aware of the player resetting. I don't see any reason to assume that hypothetical soul Asriel would be either. If he is not aware, he cannot get bored, every time would be the first time and therefore not boring. If its not boring then there is no motivation to kill. If there is no motivation to kill there is no reason that Asriel would do it. Therefore it is unreasonable to claim he is responsible.
Flowey's killing people bc he was bored thing was clearly intended to mirror the player's own motivation to do the genocide route. It was entirely independent of the player. Flowey did it before the player was in the picture, the player does not influence the willingness of Flowey to begin to kill. So if Asriel was in the same mindset as murdering time Flowey, then every route should be Snowgrave and the player should have to take extreme effort to change course away from violence.
TLDR: the argument for Asriel being willing to kill bc of Flowey's actions in Undertale is bad because the circumstances which would result in Flowey killing are not met.
Ralsei is an imposter. The way he gets from dark world to dark world is by venting
Ralsus
@@OuaisAmelie Ralsussy
@@liviwaslost misread that as Ralussy
I'm done with TH-cam for today
@@kreeperkiller4423 lol
I would like this comment but it’s at 69 likes so here’s a comment to show my appreciation
Very well Mr. Jaru. These are good things you pointed here... But.. there's one thing that's bothering me a bit about your theory...
You said Kris killed Asriel and absorbed his soul... But
If we check on the light world, the menu hud is the same as the one we had in Undertale, with the same options and the same specifications... including... EXP and LV. We can't say they work exactly as they work in Undertale, but, because of how it smells the same, everyone is tempted to say the answer is yes.
But if we look to Kris' LV, we see that it's still on 1, wich mean... Kris didn't kill anyone on their life! What do u say, sir?
I see your point and thinking about it i think i have an answer (sorry my english my native language is spanish)
There is a difference between killing in Undertale and the murder of asriel, the intentions
As sans says there are he extermine points and Level of violence, but if you think, what are our intentions killing the monster, exactly, killing them, i think thank when sans says "Because you CAN you dont HAVE to do it", so if you see it like that, the Kris intentions was not killing His brother, he just want prank someone, so his extermine points dont go up because he didn't want to do that
@@josephalfredocordovavallej3358a lot of people in undertale will accidentally kill toriel because they arent sure of how they're supposed to get through the fight, but their love still increases when she dies. their exp increases because, as sans states, execution points simply measure the amount of harm the player has brought upon others, with no mentioning of what the intentions of that harm was
My thoughts almost exactly!!
@@sunny.shootingstars True, that may not have been the *players* intention but frisk is basically meant to be a vessel, frisk had intent to kill because the player input "attack" that doesn't quite prove or deny what the person is saying, more importantly Kris still would gained exp whether or not he had any LV.
An answer to why Ralsei wants to recruit everybody could be to fulfill his purpose as a darkner. His world is the storage closet so he logically he would want many other darkners there. This also could explain why any darkner can exist there because there is no set theme.
not Ralsei's storage facility LMAOOO 💀
ralsei runs the foundation
In the Snowgrave Route when you use Snowgrave on darkners, they probably turn to red dust because they're DEAD. Ralsei doesn't do the same when he's knocked out because... well, he's only been knocked out. It's pretty obvious that Ralsei is Kris's old headband, so I bet when all the clothes fall to the floor it's because he's reverting back into his headband form. He's still there, he's just hidden by the clothes because he's a headband.
Edit: P.S.: Ralsei's appearance is clearly based on Kris's hopes and dreams. They wanted to be a goat monster, and more like Asriel, hence why Ralsei is so much like him.
yea, that's what I'm saying
its not that darkners don't drop their clothes when they die, its that snowgrave is a VIOLENT BLIZZARD that's so powerful and forceful that it rips darkners to shreds and scatters their gore and viscera to the wind
I have a few thoughts after watching the vid:
- There are other darkners that seem to know a bit about the light world as well. Namely Queen, who clearly knows that her dark world is confined inside a library. She also knows Noelle and other lightners. It seems that darkners seem to retain some info from their light world counterparts.
- Queen and King, Spamton and Jevil know each others, so either the computers from the librarby were in the unused classroom at some point, or the darkners can travel somehow between... their realms (somehow even before their respective fountains were created)
- Adding to the last point, it seems that darkners have existed even before they were sprayed by the fountain. Maybe the fountain is not necessarly a life... bringer, but more of a way of mixing both worlds (while also confining them to that space) 👀
- To the point that Ralsei is a Flowey-like being; yes, it makes A TON of sense, but a small counter point: Flowey looks nothing like Asriel, while Ralsei is very similar to him. It may point to the fact that whatever Ralsei's light world counterpart may be somehow related to Asriel in looks, but the monster remains may be of someone other 👀
Of course this might be just dark-world stuff not working the same way as how Flowey was created, but still 😗
- I like the idea about "submissiveness" being related to why a darkner would persist for a longer time in a world, but maybe its also related to what would fit in the light world counterpart? Playing cards wouldnt really fit in a computer room, while... you wouldnt be surprised to find anything inside a storage room, which is what the lightworld counterpart of Ralsei's fountain is 👀
Thank you for the comment! My thoughts:
-True! But Queen is a computer who uses the internet, so I think that's why she knows what she does about the Light World.
-Also true! I would guess that, since Queen is a laptop and Spamton is a computer program who uses to live in Queen's mansion, that maybe that specific laptop used to be used by someone in the school? Like, maybe in used to belong to Gerson or someone else who worked at the school, but they then later donated the laptop to the library? That would explain it.
-It definitely seems like Darkners have memories of some sort, but I always chalked that up to them remembering their time as mundane objects, and not because they used to be alive in some other way. Still, the world-mixing approach is also an interesting concept!
-I'm inclined to think Ralsei looking different from Flowey IS just a product of his different origin, but the idea that Ralsei is ACTUALLY the reanimated remains of someone else (potentially multiple monsters like Dess AND Asriel?) is a very interesting concept!
-That's a fantastic point! It would make perfect sense for a storage closet to be designed to house any object. Great point!
Thank you again for the comment and the great points! x)
@@JaruJaruJ Personally, I don't think it mixes both worlds but rather that the object's history is "interpreted", because the darkners in the old classroom say they were abandonned, just like in the light world where children stopped playing with toys. The cyber world darkners don't say that which means it's not about dark worlds themselves but it was because of the classroom's history. Plus, Queen says "Unfortunately The World They Created" which implies the dark world was created when the knight made the fountain.
I'm inclined to think you're right.
@@JaruJaruJ The Public Laptop (Queen) COULD have been Noelle's which would probably make sense since Noelle's Mom is literally the mayor of HomeTown. So perhaps the Holiday family is actually rich and has better Laptops, so they (Most likely the Mom) donated the Laptop to the computer Lab
Edit: Yes, Ignored the Queen and Noelle relationship on purpose cuz I thought it was obvious
@@JaruJaruJ Considering Queen in this picture, there's one more thing that has to be taken in account on the matter of this theory: how about Asriel's room in Queen's castle? I mean, the fact that Kris closes their eyes while peeking at the door may allude to confirm this theory, it places a dubiousness in whether Kris is aware that Asriel is merged with their Soul or not. Not to mention the curious fact of Susie's reaction when she also peeks at Asriel's room as well.
1:02:00 Quick interjection: Ralsei isn’t a Card Kingdom Darkner. He’s the sole occupant of his own dark fountain, located in the schools closet. Which is also strange as all heck, because wouldn’t there be other supplies in the closet that could become Darkners? Why is Ralsei the only one? Also, it’s never mentioned that the Prime Fountain was created by the Knight, so where’d it come from? It couldn’t have been created that long ago unless literally no one ever goes to the schools supply closet. There’s a lot of mystery surrounding Ralsei that I excited to see resolved in future chapters. I’m personally holding the belief that Ralsei has been given a script from “time and space” (AKA probably Gaster) and sees it as his duty to make sure the story stays on a certain track. He knows when certain cutscenes are supposed to play and gets visibly concerned when they don’t. He’s aware of the player and seems to be trying his best to get into our good graces rather than Kris’s, probably knowing that we are controlling Kris. He displays awareness of the game mechanics. And so on and so forth. (Also, he tells Susie that only Kris can seal fountains, but never elaborates on why this is.) It’s likely that the core conflict of the game will be between these characters trying to escape their roles as game characters and the broader experiment Gaster is carrying out with us, the players. Things are very, very interesting indeed.
I feel like our "connection" and the dark fountains were made by the same thing and I don't mean like kris making a dark fountain. I am talking about how dark fountains came into being in that world in the first place.
First, we have the fountains textures which look eerily similar to the background when Gaster talks to us.
When our soul closes the fountains, it has the same outline as when we die (where Gaster talks to us) or the maker sequence. This outline is very clear to notice. It's only in places when you're not directly controlling Kris.
There's also the fact that your soul feels "as if it was glowing" when near a fountain.
So dark fountains might be a Gaster creation just like our connection the the game.
This is the greatest deltarune theory I have ever watched. Even if you are wrong I have IMMENSE respect for this theory and what it accomplished from the information of TWO chapters… TWO!!!!
You are far too kind!
there are two things that bother me about this theory
the first thing that bothers me is that anyone, ESPECIALLY toriel and asgore, would believe kris when they say that asriel has headed off to college, without telling anyone but kris, without bringing any of his stuff with him, without saying goodbye to anyone in town, etc. im sure it would never cross their minds once that kris could be covering up asriels death, but while asgore may be a jolly enough fellow to take it on faith, toriel does not think that kris is perfect or incapable of lying, and something this ludicrous would be hard to believe.
i SUPPOSE that it COULD be the case that asriel was getting ready to go to college, or was even on his way to college when the accident with kris happened, but the theory is already getting pretty thin at this point, and im not sure it can be stretched quite that far.
the other thing that bothers me is that asriel going crazy doesnt make a lot of sense. in undertale, floweys singular goal was always to regain a soul, be it his own (impossible) or a humans (relatively more possible). asriel, even if he somehow loses all compassion, should have the same desire to become whole by gaining his own body, and logically understand that the best way to do that is NOT to ruin and murder all of his siblings friends. what he SHOULD do is, upon seeing ralsei, leave kris' soul, which we KNOW absorbed souls can do because we see it happen in the omega flowey fight, and fly into ralsei, which would then just result in a full asriel. asriel soul + asriel body + determination + personality of asriel = one full goat boy. being a part of kris doesnt seem to give him any extra powers, and in fact carries the large downside that at any time, kris can rip BOTH their souls out of themself, and then somehow shamble about without needing either. it COULD be that asriel has gotten a taste of the power to save and reload, and wants to take the timeline for a joy ride, but again, it doesnt make a lot of sense that he would want that. if flowey can still feel emotion, then asriel with his own soul still intact shouldnt be trying to cause kris as much suffering as he possibly can in as short a timespan as he can. i cant imagine asriel holding that much of a grudge, and even if he did, noelle is one of his friends too, no? we hear that asriel and dess took kris and noelle out into the forest when they were all younger, and noelle seems to have been constantly nice until snowgrave route, when... asriel convinces her to kill berdly? for the lols? the most plausible explanation for asriel not just going into ralsei is that he would lose the ability to save and reload, and asriel MIGHT hold a grudge against kris for killing him, but that doesnt explain why he would try to turn noelle into a murderer. and, actually, if asriel has been the one in charge all this time, wouldnt that mean that HES the one thats been researching how to use magic, and HES the one lying to toriel, asgore, and the whole town?
i guess you could try to work around this by saying that asriel has, somehow, for some reason, been 'asleep' this entire time, and only 'wakes up' when gaster(?) talks to him in the opening cutscene. and why would gaster(?) be taunting asriel, literally going "heheh hey kid, go ahead and make a human body. hahaha no, you dont get one. get dicked nerd"? UNLESS, gaster(?) is talking to the PLAYER, and is taunting THEM, not letting them make a human body, and then making them control ASRIEL, who is controlling KRIS? WHY? i can see the logic you followed in order to get to this theory, but i cant imagine any path that toby could have followed to actually end up writing something this convoluted.
i like your past theories, and this video has good points, but i dont think the conclusion you reached is whats really going on.
Maybe Toriel and Asgore believed them because that's around when Asgore got kicked out of the police force ? So Toriel might've thought he left so suddenly because if it's a pretty stressful situation and stuff ?
@@painslut parents are so involved in the college process. like this theory completely ignores the college application process like it’s a THING going to college. and toriel would def know what’s going on
You summed my thoughts up perfectly. It's definitely plausible and the story could play out like this, but with what we have to work with right now there are just too many leaps in logic to say that this is definitely the case, or even that it's likely. Further there are some foundational assumptions here that, if proven wrong, could knock out the whole theory.
Honeslty the theory just generally doesn't sit right with me. It feels overall too,milk toast edgy. I feel like it ruins so much of the game by saying we aren't the player. That means that kris's outbursts for control mean nothing. Using Undertale to say what deltarune does doesn't work. Plus as a plot twist,it's bad. It's so edgy and bad. It feels like it's put together to be shocking but it's not.. good
Oh yeah it removes blame from the player!!! That too. It ruins that. It ruins snowgrave
I love how this is going full on Omori plot line, but i’m absolutely loving it.
"I love it, but I love it".
So in 2014 Toby tweeted that a game being made was “VERY,VERY similiar to one I had an idea for (not undertale)”
If you go back to that tweet,in 2020 people are saying its Omori,and obviously his idea being deltarune.
Alot of similarities between the two and Omocat and Toby contributed to each games. Then they dropped both helped drop that lore heavy Skies Forever Blue.
that was exactly what i thought like this is literally sunny and mari and basil
No matter what universe he’s in, Asriel is always dead. Like damn he cannot catch a break, let him live in peace.
I guess it really is kill or be killed
Like Arthur from cave story
Even looks similar too.
Holy heck, I never considered that maybe Ralsei is a special case that could be in the Light World despite being a Darkner! It also makes sense seeing how he came in last into the Cyber World, AFTER Kris and Susie confronted Queen.
Yep, yep!
@@JaruJaruJ Damn, this makes so much sense! Holy shark repellent, this is absolutely fantastic. I especially like how Asriel has a poster of a flower next to his bed. Easter egg perhaps...?
@MIKE Deltarune hello Mike! ^w^
Going by this theory's logic, could it be that the second narrator who interrupts the first (many consider to be Gaster) during the character-creator opening and discards the vessel is Asriel? After all, they say no one can choose who they are in this world. Sounds like someone who can't choose for themselves if they're stuck in a Humans body.
Interesting idea! I hadn't considered that Asriel might be one of the voices we hear during that sequence. Would make sense for Asriel to have an opinion on the matter if Gaster was trying to influence Kris in some way. Fair point!
Also maybe the hidden dialogue in the files? Could that be connected to this too?
That would create another parallel to UNDERTALE, since it's Asriel speaking during the "My name is..." flashback scene in the Garbage Dump.
To be honest, I still believe that temmie is the one that interrupted Gaster, but that is just my opinion.
@@sayyidassons9332 "hOI! you shud kno...your chooses dunt mater in dis wurld!"
Father Alvin mentions that Asriel would repent for many small things, and Ralsei, after clicking on the machine gun add, literally says "I repent!!!"
True!
14:50 it’s always been my belief that Ralsei being able to go to any darkworld without turning into stone is the same principal as any darkner being able to live in the castle town darkworld. It’s described as a fountain of pure darkness, and it’s located in a closet where you can just thrown in anything and the darkners will be able to exist in it with no problem, whereas the other darkworlds were created specifically in one place for a specific cast of themed characters. If Ralsei’s item(s) were given life by the pure dark fountain (and also he’s the prince of the whole darkworld), he can belong in any darkworld just like any darkner can belong in the castle town/closet darkworld. Also, if the items we are assuming are Ralsei’s lightworld equivalent are correct, then the reason he can go anywhere Kris goes could be because those items are significant to them?
"Not once has frisk rebelled against the player" except they do? They tell everyond their name, move independently in multiple points of genocide, and i'm pretty sure they give some unsolicited answers to other characters that we can't hear. Frisk also isn't "the strongest wielder of determination" considering flowey could reset, and i'm inclined to believe the other humans can too. After all, determination is the will to go on. The reason they died is that they gave up hope, just liks chara when they deliberately decided to die to free monsters and then got shot down.
The reason kris rebels is probably because, either
A, the narrative role of the player changed from that of undertale (which probably isn't the case considering flowey tells us to leave frisk to live their life at the end of pacifist)
B, kris is simply older than the undertale kids, at least looking at their height
There's also to consider that frisk is in general quite less characterized than kris, so maybe they're just easier to control because of that + younger
Anyway, point is, that part doesn't hold up very well
that's exactly what i think. the protagonists are designed with different intentions in mind. frisk was a classic projection protagonist- there's no playerless history to frisk, no playerless development to frisk, no playerless goals or endings achieved for frisk. meanwhile Kris gets all those, and even proper pronouns. Kris, without any of the game having taken place yet, is more of a person than Frisk ever was even after all was said and done.
a lot of Undertale was designed to be meta. so much in it is just Toby fucking with players. while i can totally get behind the player-possession being an intentional red herring, i also can totally see it being apart of the narrative somehow. possibly not in the main one, but in the more meta elements to the side of it
I was also going to mention this. There's a True Lab segment where you run into Snowdrake's mother and you can heckle her, but if you select that, it says you said it... but then it says, "Wait, you didn't say that?" So we as the player told Frisk to say something awful and Frisk chose not to.
There's no indication that Frisk was responsible for any of that 'rebelling', when it could have been Chara.
Flowey tells Chara to leave Frisk alone. We know from Genocide that Chara isn't us. Chara also identifies as a part of us that craves power. Frisk may still be us, if Flowey thinks they're talking to Chara. Flowey always mistakes us for Chara. Asriel doesn't. Chara naming us Frisk makes sense since we named them, and the 'voice' that speaks that line to Asriel is Chara's voice, and exclusively Chara's voice. They're the only one who ever speaks silently. When "Frisk" supposedly says something, you get a text box saying "You said X" or "You asserted X" etc. Chara's voice is silent in every instance, even when their text appears in the genocide route. I'm inclined to believe anything that is 'said' by "Frisk" that we don't directly pick is actually said by Chara. Food for thought.
Frisk/The Player is far and away the strongest Single SOULed wielder of Determination we see, capable of standing up to the God of Hyperdeath in full powered form without being immediately deleted along with the rest of everything.
We can be relatively sure that the SOUL, in both instances of Deltarune and Undertale, represents the player directly because it is the thing we most directly control. Without us, Frisk would not have a SOUL, and thus no culmination of their being or a will of their own. We can be reasonably sure they're not a darkner, nor a Flowey-like entity injected with Determination. Our SOUL remains the same in Deltarune, thus, we can conclude that we are still us. Still 'Frisk' as Chara named us, in a sense.
Also, like... the pure Asriel is the one who never experienced trauma? The pure Asriel is implied to have suffered trauma from Chara's behaviour.
“We aren’t ever seeing Papyrus” hit harder than anything else in this video
I hope I'm wrong. xD
i love how jaru is slowly going insane at the end
I think you've made a good call on the red herring of "Asriel is returning from college". There's been too much talk of it, too much foreshadowing for it to just play out mundanely. Maybe he's dead, maybe he's evil, there's a lot of possible twists that could occur. It could even be possible that he died and his essence fell onto the horn-headband... but it seems far-fetched to think Kris was wearing a Ralsei costume and accidental-stabbed Asriel.
I don't agree that Asriel and Ralsei act "identically", or anywhere near so. We only saw Asriel post-Flowey, and very briefly pre-Flowey, but... Ralsei seems to prioritize kindness and peace above all else; but Asriel's curiosity and yearning for adventure will eventually override this. To put it another way, do you think a soulless Ralsei would ever go insane and start murdering people to see new things happen, even if he was stuck in a time loop for thousands of years?
Another difference, ironically, is that Asriel has always struck me as an anxious, fearful sort. Note how he confesses his sins for dropping not-Yoshi into the pit, for instance. In contrast, Ralsei never really seems to doubt himself, always just charging forward and doing what he feels is right in his heart. See how quickly he spoke up when people started talking about making new Dark Fountains. It's really hard to explain, but I spend a long time analyzing Asriel's character traits for RP reasons, long before Deltarune was ever released. Thus, my immediate impression of Ralsei's behavior was "This is what people THINK Asriel is like, but it's not who he really is."
Then again, who knows what happens when you merge Asriel's essence with an object that becomes a Darkner? Clearly there's SOME connection between Asriel and Ralsei... they look similar, their names are an anagram... but that's just it: they look SIMILAR but not identical, and their names aren't the same. Ralsei is something strange, most certainly... not a mere Darkner, highly unlikely to just be a Lightner. Definitely not just "Asriel" with no caveats.
Why does he know all these prophecies...? Why does he know about the Light World? How did he get from Castletown to Cyberworld? I don't know if "he's Asriel's essence on some horns" explains any of that. Did Asriel's knowledge and understanding linger in him? He knows Kris' name and Susie's name, but why doesn't he know what other people look like until he sees them firsthand? Why does he claim to not know how to administer a hug? Why doesn't Noelle Tea give him much HP, if he knows her and likes her?
At the very least, it explains how he got from place to place: a combination Lightner-Darkner would easily be able to shift from dimension to dimension. It's also plausible he'd have gotten to the Library unseen; only Undyne may have witnessed him, and she seemed preoccupied with car-lifting. No other witnesses...
I think you're within a stone's throw of right. You've found a lot of great data, we just need a little more insight to put the pieces together.
There's too many holes in the theory
No one would really find it strange that Asriel just decided to go to college one day randomly and never told anyone about it? He just.... left and only told Kris, and never contacted anyone after it, ever, only Kris, why isn't anyone not even a little bit mad at him? They all still hold him at high regard
How didn't anyone notice dust in the closet? Not Alphys, not Toriel, not anyone that happened to go there after Asriel died
Why does Kris gets weaker when they take Asriel's soul out?
Also like ehh, i'm sorry but i don't like it lol, not because it doesn't make sense or because it's "too dark" it just feels unsatisfying
But i do agree with the idea that "Kris will never have their brother back"
I think he's alive and will return from college, but... he won't be the same, he'll be very different from the Asriel Kris knew before he went off to college, basically the complete opposite, and there's nothing Kris will be able to do about it really, people just change and that's natural, but Kris won't be able to accept it specially since Ralsei provides very clearly the difference between old Asriel and Current Asriel, then they'll snap and... do something, start the roaring maybe idk
Maybe he did really go to Collage, however, came back to visit Kris as a surprise. And that's when he died. If it happened recently, e.g. One day earlier, before the 1st Chapter, everything seems reasonable imo.
Ohhh dear god Asriel’s literally Eren Yager, if he starts the roaring lol i mean they are similar.
Okay, so, I've been watching your vids lately, and gotta say, I've been loving your theories so far.
But this one I'm a bit skeptical over. Your ideas are sound, but I have a hard time believing Asriel just vanishes and no one seems to have much concern, just believing Asriel just left for college.
I mean, Noelle's own sister disappears, and there was concern for her. Just seems a bit odd to me. Other than that, it's an interesting theory, even if I don't agree with all of it.
If an incident like the one he described happened the very night Asriel was supposed to leave for college, or something like that, I could maybe see it. The thing I'm having trouble understanding is how Toriel and Asgore wouldn't find it weird how their son always wants to video chat with Kris and never speak to them
As someone staying away from home and who talks to my sibling a lot on the phone, my parents often want to speak to me as well and I just can't see Toriel ignoring the idea of popping in to say hi during one of their video calls
That said, the idea of Ralsei being this world's version of Flowey is extremely intriguing to me. It makes way more sense than him being Asriel and there's a ton of connections between Ralsei and Flowey. The idea of Ralsei being an anagram actually being somewhat of a red herring but not being necessarily false also tracks
So while I have doubts with the exact theory presented, the idea of Ralsei being the Flowey in deltarune makes a ton of sense to me
After all, what did Flowey do all the time in Undertale? Pop out of nowhere, as though he could teleport
Similar to Ralsei just always being where he needs to be
Bit of a rant but yeah, it's interesting for sure
That's totally fine! To be certain, there's some finer details that I'm not 100% confident on, and the specifics surrounding when and how Asriel died without anyone noticing I'm uncertain on. If people think he's at college, and he's actually dead, then the best explanation I can think of is that he died right before or right after everyone thought he left for college. But, of course, I could be 100% off on that. This is all very speculative to be sure.
Regardless, thank you for the comment!
@@JaruJaruJ
Yeah, as Erin just presented, it's with Tory and Asgore I find conflict here. Toriel is known for being very protective of your children, so it is a bit suspicious there she seems alright, but then again, not entirely sure how long Asriel has been away yet.
I think it's more interesting Noelle's sister, Dess, and her connection to the Dark Fountains, as Noelle states in Chapter too, finding a lot of the Dark World familiar. So clearly Dess, Asriel, and Noelle all have some connection with it. Not sure what more info we'll discover in the upcoming chapters, but I'm ready for it.
That aside, I do really agree with the whole Ralsei/Flowey connection, especially with the idea of the Lightner/Darkner Determination fusion. Just not exactly sure how the Deltarune Asriel is involved, but you make a really good case.
And I appreciate you hearing me out actually. Nice to see TH-camrs that respond to their audience. Keep up the good work, though! Looking forward to the next mind-blowing theories! :)
Yeah the whole idea requires that toriel wouldn’t drive to visit him at college. And is so inept that she both can’t use email and wouldn’t practically force him to show him the chat or whatever.
Interesting theory, too many contradictions and leaps in logic for my taste.
You did forget one thing he could be, he could be a titan. His world looks like the description of a world destroyed by titans and the titan shadows do look a little like asgore.
Also flowey likely lost his compassion after spending an eternity saving and loading and it’s hard to sympathize with people who behave like npcs in your mind
Nope, Flowey literally says since he woke up as a flower he had no more love or compassion
This theory blew my mind multiple times. Like dang, it makes SO much sense! I don't know how you're so good at this stuff!
Thank you!
**sees theory** oh, kinda reminds me of omori's plot twist
**remembers toby said that omori was one of the many inspirations for deltarune**
oh.
_oh no._
I see no difference between Deltarune and Mother 3! Look at how similiar Chapter 3 of Deltarune looks like Chapter 4 of Mother 3!!!!
*_WAIT A SECOND_*
no, he said that it was like he was making his own thing and omori beat him to the punch at making something of that theme.
your point still stands though. and i agree
1:08:44 I never knew we’d have a “Asriel Trauma Spectrum”, but here we are!
XD
I wanna cry why can’t Asriel have a happy ending outside of my headcannon ending for Undertale, where he has a busty female version of himself to enjoy as a actual adult, and say what you will at least Asriel, in porn isn’t suffering.
19:31 If Ralsei is Asriel, then the reason he looks different could be the same reason Kris and Susie look different in the dark world. Lightners just simply change appearance in the dark World
But Ralsei doesn’t really look like someone who should be in college by now
The dialogue portrait is colored though, which invalidates this
@@Fullmetalnyuu0 I don't believe Asriel is Ralsie, but I'm just pointing out evidence for the counter-arument.
@@eNCy. I understand, I was just countering the counter-argument :P
I just realised, this theory makes even more sense if you go to the library in Undertale, there's a section that reads:
''Monster funerals, technically speaking, are cool as heck.
When monsters get old and kick the bucket, they turn into dust.
At funerals, we take that dust and spread it on that person’s favorite thing.
Then their essence will live on in that thing...''
That helps allot to support this theory.
Yeah, that's basically how Flowey works if you didn't realize before.
I really like this theory. I'm not 100% convinced but it's well argued, and brought up a lot of very interesting ideas I hadn't considered before.
One other thing this theory has going for it, though, is that it would helps explain why Noelle's older sister baggage got so much focus in Chapter 2. Like Kris, Noelle also had an older sibling who they loved and admired deeply, and who often acted as a protector for her. It's strongly implied that Dess either died or disappeared some time ago, and that Noelle is still deeply scarred by that even years later.
If Asriel is secretly dead, however, then Noelle makes a great narrative foil for Kris. Her grief and possible guilt over Dess parallels Kris' grief and guilt over Asriel very nicely. It provides a useful way for the games to explore those themes before dropping the big reveal on us.
The theory that ralsei is an item covered with a monsters dust that was brought to life by a dark fountain is honestly something I never thought of but is very intriguing given the fact that that lore bit is directly mentioned by Alvin - it’s information we’re intended to know, and usually when key information is given, it has a payoff at some point in a story.
The part where asriel is actually dead in this timeline loses me however. There’s countless contradictions and the story of kris accidentally killing him is absurdly presumptuous to the point you could make up pretty much anything in that period of time as to how asriel ‘died’ and it would make about as much sense as it. No offence of course - we just don’t have any information that can accurately piece that part of the story together at the moment.
I think more likely Ralsei is connected to an alternate timeline - we already know that there is timeline mysteries just exploding out of the game, like gaster references, sans and papyrus’s mysterious existence in this timeline as he seems acutely aware that we have prior knowledge of him and his brother from before he first meets us, etc etc. Flowey is one of the only other characters connected to saves and timelines besides the skeletons and gaster, so with their presence in this world perhaps somehow flowey also was able to come to this world, or a variation of him at least. It’s obviously hard to say in the current state - it just makes more sense to me that ralsei would be connected to an asriel of a different world than that of this worlds asriel.
Though, I still have my problems even with that slightly. Ralsei is shown to show quite a lot of affection to Kris, including borderline romantic implications occasionally, in a very childlike innocent way of course. It’s not hard for anyone to tell why that would be extremely weird with kris being asriels sibling. Though, I suppose it’s fair to suspect ralsei would have no sibling connection to kris if he was an asriel from a timeline where kris never existed and thus never knew them - there’s no reason that he couldn’t have a crush on kris if he’s never even met them before. But still - the connotations are just super weird and awkward.
I think I’m still leaning a bit heavier on theories of ralsei being essentially kris’ monster-sona lmao. The person kris wants to be, has always wanted to be. Their determination to be a monster like the brother they idolize that so strong that it was able to physically bring ralsei to life as a being of pure determination coating kris’ old monster horns, unable to be carried around like other darkners.. perhaps because Catty taught kris about a dark magic practice that could ‘turn them into a monster’ perhaps by doing a seance like ritual using their pair of monster horns as a goal or source of determination and plunging their knife into the horns themselves or something similar. However, this ‘magic ritual’ was misinterpreted by catty and instead of turning kris into the monster they wanted to be, it simply brought to life the monster they wanted to be alongside them in a realm created entirely of determination. A bit of a stretch of course, but that’s sort of the nice thing about this part of the story/game - we don’t know everything so we all get to toss out our best guesses and see what’s right and what’s not eventually :] love the ideas here man! I always enjoy a video that can get my theories and thoughts going
Well in that case, it's awful convenient that we have a graveyard full of assorted dusty items, just WAITING to be Flowey'd
The only issue I have with the theory is that in order to ensure no one would be suspicious this would have to have happened right before Asriel was suppose to go to college, Asriel would need his own car or some way to be transported without using Toriel's car, and NO ONE would be suspicious or concerned about Asriel just leaving for college in the middle of the night without saying goodbye to everyone. That last bit makes it really hard to fully believe the theory with how everyone loves Asriel. Though I have issues with the full theory it makes some actions in chapter 2 make more sense like cutting the tires to Toriel's car to limit her ability to try to drive outside of town just in case they can't get everything done by the goal they set.
Very fair! And yeah, that part of the theory is mostly speculation, as I don't know the specifics surrounding when/how Asriel died. All I know is that he died in that closet, Kris was there, the costume that became Ralsei was also there, and Asriel died at a point in time where nobody would find his disappearance odd. Maybe he died the night before he was supposed to leave, maybe he died the day after, I don't know. It just had to be around the time he was leaving for college to justify nobody thinking twice about his absence.
@@JaruJaruJ One guess I thought of is maybe Asriel came by for a surprise visit? Like he went to college a while back and went by at night either cause he forgot something or wanted to surprise his family. This would explain why everyone isn't super concerned yet since the last they knew Asriel went to college and unless someone stays up super late at night they wouldn't have any idea that Asriel came by.
@@tylerr2016 That's a great theory! That would make a lot of sense. Perhaps more sense than my interpterion. xD
Here's something I realised: Someone DOES address Ralsei as a Lightner, albeit indirectly. When you find Susie and Lancer chilling in the poolside chairs and being fanned off by the 2 guard guys, one of them specifically refers to you and Ralsei as "Lightners". Plural. He could be referring to Kris and Susie, sure, but that's not likely, since Susie was already there, and he then addresses Susie after saying "Lightners". There are only 6 people in that area, 2 of which are new arrivals, 3 others being Darkners for certain, and the last one being Susie. AND, he specifically says "Lightners", plural. As I said. Meaning that he does specifically recognise Ralsei as being a Lightner, along with Kris.
This makes me think of a couple other things...
It could explain the scene where Kris is upset after Noelle nearly shocks them. If Asriel truly did die in a prank gone horribly wrong, and Kris almost met that same fate, I'm sure that would bring up some awful memories.
Asriel being killed by their own siblings' hand would also certainly explain why Kris looks so damn depressed.
But here's another thing:
What about Dess Holiday? We never found out what happened to her either... maybe she was also accidentally killed? And possibly controlling Noelle at times? Maybe? I cannot explain what I'm thinking in full quite yet, but I feel like there is something there. I can FEEL it!
You've really got my brain thinking 👀
Very true regarding the Kris/Noelle shock prank! That would be pretty bad for Kris' PTSD, to be sure. Would also explain why "it's horrible" is one of their possible responses.
It could be that Dess was involved with all this! The idea that maybe Ralsei was created using a combination of Asriel and Dess' dust is an interesting concept that has been thrown around in the comments, so that's pretty interesting.
Regardless, I'm very happy to hear that my video got your brain wheels spinning! Even if my theory is completely wrong, as long as it gets people thinking and discussing the game, that's good enough for me!
Thank you very much for the comment. x)
also kris: *russian dance intencifies*
I don't think Dess could be controlling Noelle, since both of them are monsters and the idea of the characters controlling one another is based off the fact that one could absorb the others' soul. That said, I definitely feel like Dess' disappearance has some relevance here.
I will point out that there is a MAJOR flaw in your personal theory for Deltarune's big twist. This is a big if, but IF we're in fact controlling Asriel in Kris' body, then this question needs explaining: Why does Noelle not recognize Asriel's voice in the Snowgrave route the moment she starts hearing another voice through Kris? If what you say is even REMOTELY true, then she HAS to...no, she is LEGALLY required to recognize that it's Asriel talking to her! And yet she doesn't anyway. This isn't a case of hearing Flowey. But hey, there might be a reason.
While I can't actually see any problems with the idea of Kris knowing and covering for Asriel in some way, him directly dying of a prank seems too... shallow for Toby to actually do. What I think is more likely is that they got into the bunker, and something happened there, if it is true that Asriel is dead. It is also much against Kris's known nature that they would hide such a thing- while they are mischievous and enjoy a good prank, actual harm or the DEATH of their brother is something that would certainly break them. While your theory covers a good number of holes, I think it could be improved upon surrounding the idea of Kris killing their brother. Good video! The overdramatic suspense gets a little much closer to the middle, but everything presented is really well organized and detailed. Great job!
Also, continuing on the thought line of Asriel controlling Kris...
If it is possible for the human souls to rebel against Asriel and Asriel against the fallen child, the rules of possession are clearly more nuanced than just sheer determination. Both of these examples are human v. monster souls, which could change the dynamic. The Fallen Child is clearly very determined as to likely have killed themselves to get monsters to the surface and persuade their brother to kill other humans. And if the human we see at the end of the genocide route is actually the Fallen Child, they are determined to stay around for approx. 100 years to see monster kind escape, or die trying. That is immeasurably determined in a dark way. Frisk, however, is immeasurable determined in a kind way - everything about their person, their clothing and items tells us that they were kindhearted and refused to fight. Their bandage was literally made to help them escape from battles first attempt. If that is true, why didn't they rebel during the genocide route? If that's the question, why didn't Kris rebel during the Snowgrave route? Perhaps these times of great tension from the thing possessing them would leave them unable to break the possessing parties' power- only when they are relaxed enough can they attempt to take control. Both the Underground and the Dark World are places outside of consequence as well. Resets are possible in both areas, with save points in both areas. If Kris and Frisk understand this, perhaps they also know that if the possessor is unsatisfied, they will just make them live through the hell of possession again. I still think the Player is the possessor in some way, but perhaps by secondhand power. A lot of things go back to the bunker in my mind, and whatever happened to Asriel likely is the same event we got control from. Whatever the case, I can't wait to see how Toby Fox will overturn and throw everything in my face. The gratification I get from his stories and plot twists is immeasurable and I can't wait for Ch3 and anything else to come from him.
Thank you very much! And yeah, it was a tad overdramatic, but I thought it was worth it for the extra flair. xD
Regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if there were some details surrounding Asriel's death that I got wrong, as that's the part of the theory that has the most assumptions. Either way, thank you for the kind words and the comment! x)
@@JaruJaruJ I had fun watching and thinking about the potential ideas Toby has in store for us. Well done! Also?? GASTER THEORY PLEASE
You know you bring up an excellent point- maybe something happened to asriel in the bunker and that is why kris ran out of it afraid
Kris breaking down is irrelevant, because Asriel is the one in control. If anything it made it easier for Asriel to posses Kris.
This makes SO much sense I am actually reeling. Absolutely incredible. It solves every conundrum I was struggling with. You're so perceptive. Absolutely subscribing, I'm gonna be SPRINTING to this channel once chapters 3-5 drop.
Thank you so much! :D
This is a really great theory. Though hesitant on the third revelation, I’ll believe it for two reasons. One, humans absorbing boss monsters finally pays off in the story. Secondly, it solves the dilemma of Kris acting so differently from Frisk in terms of possession.
I just have a few things that nag me. Wouldn’t Frisk have absorbed Toriel’s and Asgore’s souls throughout genocide and neutral runs of Undertale? If we’re controlling Asriel’s soul, wouldn’t it be white like the other monster souls. Also, the theme of free will is muddied a bit. The Spamton fight is dark because you the player are taking direct responsibility for controlling and traumatizing Kris. Filtering this through Asriel is not only convoluted, but makes the game’s central theme less potent.
Edit: Soul color
Glad you like it! As for why Frisk didn't absorb Toriel or Asgore's souls, I don't know. We know they COULD have done it, that much is confirmed, but they chose not to for some reason. Hard to say.
As for Asriel's soul being white, presumably, since Kris absorbed Asriel, Asriel's soul was integrated into Kris'. That's why we control Kris from inside their red soul. It's not that Kris has two separate souls bouncing around. It's that one soul is on the inside of the other.
The theme of DELTARUNE is about how your choices don't matter. About the lack of free will the characters possess. Wouldn't Kris being puppeteered by multiple forces, and them having to remove their soul just to get a few moments of peace, play into that theme really well? Furthermore, the idea of Asriel being stuck inside of Kris, and having no choices that could reasonably restore him to life, plays into the core theme as well. It shows that not only does Kris have no choices that matter, but even if the person CONTROLLING Kris has no choices that matter. I think that makes the theme more potent, personally.
Regardless, thank you for the kind words and the comment! :)
doesn't the soul flash white for a split second when kris pulls it out at the end of chapter one or am i missremembering?
@@AdaTheWatcher It sure does! Maybe that's hinting at the presence of Asriel!
@@AdaTheWatcher oh. oh no. it does. oh no.
@@JaruJaruJ Wait, but aren't monster SOUL's upside down? I thought only human souls pointed down.
thanks for making this series of videos, they're some of the most intuitive theorys I've seen for deltarune ever
You are far too kind. I hope you enjoy this video as much as the others. x)
I need to say thanks for putting subtitles, this helps me A LOT. I'm not a native speaker and pretty sure other people isn't too, so the subtitles helps us understand difficult words or structures, thanks for taking the time. This whole theory has blown my mind, we'll see more with the next chapters come out. For now, this is the most convincing one that I figured out while looking at the video. Literally I was like "Wait... no, no, are you saying that... OMG" hahahs, thank you so much!
Thank you very much! I'm glad you enjoyed. And I'll definitely try to supply captions in all future videos. x)
I went ahead and added subtitles for all my previous DELTARUNE videos. They should be easier to understand now. x)
@@JaruJaruJ Wow, wow!! I'm so grateful rn, thank you so much about this!
Are we sure this dude isn't just matpat with a voice changer
My somewhat basic theory about Ralsei is this: Since he was clearly based on Asriel, and could have potentially come from the drawing, he is a special Darkner, one created with more love and care. The other Darkners maybe not as much, seeing as Lancer is a playing card, and Rouxls Kaard is, well, a rules card. Still doesn't explain why he knows so much though. I got nothing on that one.
#RAISERIGGY
This theory makes some of Spamton's dialogue in both normal and Snowgrave more interesting.
For one, while we already knew about the "heart on a chain" metaphor, this makes it twofold. Kris is a "heart on a chain" because their soul is being controlled by Asriel, and Asriel is literally just "a heart on a chain" because all that's left of him is his soul being controlled by the player.
Secondly, it reinforces a line that I've been fascinated with ever since I saw in in the Snowgrave battle, that being "Don't blame me when you're crying in a broken home, wishing you'd let your old pal Spamton kill you." This theory gives a lot more weight to the broken home part of it, because while yes, you could say that Kris lives in one with Toriel and Asgore separated, it makes far more sense if Asriel is dead, as their family has literally been broken.
One other small thing, it makes sense that Kris would close their eyes when looking into Asriel's room at Queen's mansion if they're still overwhelmed by guilt for having killed him.
Some great points!
In Undertale, Asriel has a heart shaped locket, a literal heart on a chain.
the soul we control can’t be asriel’s since the soul is red and right side up while monster souls are white and upside down
As much as I love angst, I'm not sure how much I believe Asriel is dead, least of all by Kris' hands either accidentally or otherwise. I think spending the time a few videos back to convey how Kris isn't murderous like Chara, just weird but ultimately a good kid, flies in the face of killing their brother.
Taking a page from KH lore, I feel like Ralsei is very similar to Xion, at least in terms of a) being similar to other beings (a replica similar to Riku replica) but b) being different because of a relationship related to their creation (Xion looks the way she does because of Sora and Kairi's relationship, I'd wager Ralsei looks and acts the way he does because of Kris and Asriel's relationship.
I think he comes from the horns, I'm very strongly inclined to believe that because of how much it seems like Kris wants to be a monster either to fit in or look more like their family. I would also think Asriel either is as kind and patient as Ralsei, or Kris *wants* him to be, and that's why Ralsei takes the form and personality he does. Because there really is no emotional attachment to some cards or jacks and other miscellaneous toys, their forms being limited by the fountains near them makes sense, but there would be a strong emotional tie to the horns, meaning it makes sense that Ralsei would be able to follow Kris easier (of course, I could definitely be wrong about all of this, but it's fun to theorize).
based because of kh connections
Fact: chara never killed anyone in the entirety of undertale
@@TheRealSuperKirby Fact: Chara murdered themself, checkmate atheist.
@@temp_unknown ah shit
@@TheRealSuperKirby fact Chara was “Not a good person” according to asriel additionally they seem to have a ... how to put this kindly? a intense dislike of humans id wager that the dreemurs (albeit unintentionally) made that dislike grow into a hatred and possibly into a homicidal hatred so I’m going to give another checkmate here lol
I think Jaru might be patient zero of the insanity, where the brainrot began. You can hear it in their voice.
God damn... this theory is so nuts it could totally be accurate. like wow all of these theories have been good but this one hits different. I straight up got chills in that "so sorry" segment, ESPECIALLY that realization about never seeing Papyrus. Plus, if Asriel being dead is true, that line sans says about "he'll come around sometime your brother does" just fits him so well. he's always been the guy who knows way more than he should. Great video!
Thank you very much! I'm glad the dramatic parts had their intended effect. Some folks found it cringe, so I'm glad some other folks liked it! x)
51:52 ,I feel that the pie is more important than in insight. In Undertale just one slice fills your maximum HP (I believe this happens because it's made from "mother's love" and because frisk in theory was influenced by chara the part of "mother's love" included them; and well Kris is literally Toriel's child). With this we can conclude a pie slice would affect Kris the same way as Frisk and that makes me think that an inventory full of slices would be very useful to adventure solo in the dark world (and also Kris doesn't seem in good health without the player soul maybe the pie was to have more time detached from the soul). Just wanted to share this though I had
Interesting idea!
That's a good thought, but I don't know if it's accurate. In Undertale, the reason why food heals us, is because it's made of magic, and we even have evidence for this, since we get to see that Toriel's oven is totally clean. While in Deltarune, she actually uses the oven, and prepares it like a normal pie. As it seems, monsters in Deltarune world aren't used to magic, so the chances of the pie having healing properties are really low
@@gabrielfrancisco7161 if I can counter point with the chalk Noelle gives you? In the light word it does nothing g but in the Dark World it heals for 120, so the pie could work like that
@@gabrielfrancisco7161 if you could have transported the hot choclate to chapter 2 we might have been able to test it after taking damage from way too much chocalate but chocolate being able to damage you supports your statement
Mmm, pretty interesting lore analysis in the first half of this video. But things get a little forced in the second half.
Connecting the funeral ceremony of sprinkling ashes on an object and the dark world bringing objects to life, is pretty interesting.
But nothing in that second theory really makes any sense. Toriel's son goes missing, and she just....believes that he went off to college? That doesn't make any sense.
I thought you were going to suggest Asriel died and they lied to Kris about it, which is still a very weak theory.
Every thing you mentioned about Kris's behavior is just like...completely normal behavior. They didn't need to be explained. Kris just misses their brother, and is eager for him to be home from college.
Also, if Kris killed Asriel, they wouldn't be LVL 1, if you want to be a nerd about it.
Some of the finer details of the situation surrounding Asriel are definitely unclear, as I'm working with very limited information. But we know Asriel isn't present, and we know Toriel thinks he's at college, so it stands to reason that, for my theory to make sense, Asriel would have to have died at a point in time when his absence wouldn't be missed. As such, him dying the same day he was leaving for college would make the most sense. However, it's also possible that he secretly came home to surprise his parents but ended up dying before they realized he was visiting, or something like that.
It's also totally possible that Asriel is alive, and Kris just misses them. Personally, I think that is the impression Toby Fox WANTS us to have, and thus I'm super suspicious of that impression, as Toby Fox loves to bamboozle us, but it could just be that this is all a total crackpot conspiracy theory on my part.
As for the LV, I actually disagree. Nothing in Snowgrave gets you LV and beating up Asgore in UNDERTALE doesn't get you LV, so I think Kris accidently hurting Asriel wouldn't affect their LV either. LV is, according to Sans, "A way of measuring someone's capacity to hurt," so if Kris never wanted to hurt anyone, and thus had no capacity to hurt, then it stands to reason that their EXP/LV wouldn't increase. Could be wrong, but I don't think accidently hurting someone counts as an "Execution."
Either way, I could definitely be wrong with this theory, and given how dark it is, I hope it is wrong! But I thought it was interesting enough to discuss, as it makes a lot of sense to me personally. Thank you for the comment. x)
My biggest opposition to this theory is mostly from a thematic standpoint. I much prefer the idea that everything that happens in the Snowgrave route is directly the player's fault. The Genocide Route in Undertale already attempted to demonstrate that, but it was done in such a way that a lot of players could throw Frisk or Chara under the bus if they didn't want to feel responsible for it. I don't like the idea of the same thing happening to Asriel. Toby Fox's strength is in deconstructing the relationship between the player and the game, but I feel like a lot of people miss it when they try to justify everything with in-univetse logic.
Not saying this theory is bad or couldn't be done well, I just personally hope they go in a different direction.
No pressure but I rely on these videos to get through the deltarune hiatus :^)
Hehe. Hope you enjoy. x)
same
I found your channel from your previous video about magic, and I was so excited to see you had just uploaded today. I mean this with absolute sincerity:
You are the best Deltarune theorist I have EVER encountered. Not only are your theories so uniquely unheard of (seriously, this one I've literally NEVER even fathomed nor seen from anywhere else), but they are filled to the brim with research and citations that make them almost impossible not to believe!! I cannot wait to see more from you while we wait for the eventual release of the next chapters.
Needless to say, I'll never look at Ralsei the same way again ...
Thank you so much! I'm honored and flattered that you found my theories so interesting and convincing! I hope I continue to make content you enjoy. I also hope you have a fantastic day!
@@JaruJaruJ Aww, you're very welcome, and the same to you!! Keep up the awesome work~!! ^w^
While it is an interesting theory, the one thing that keeps me from getting too excited is the fact that we've only seen 2 out of 7 chapters so far. Each chapter can take anyone 3-7 hours give or take to beat depending on many variables, so that's anywhere from 15-35 hours of game we've yet to see. It'd be like trying to guess the plot of Kingdom Hearts 3 after only playing 1 and Chain of Memories. So much information is still unknown/yet to be revealed to us that quite literally anything can happen.
Oh absolutely! I am almost definitely wrong about some of this, if not all of this! There's way too much that we don't know for me to be super confident. Totally agree with you on that point.
This perfectly showcases what Jaru means about being a fanfiction writer instead of a theorist, dude just made a fanfic about Deltarune being an entirely different Quirky Earthbound Inspired RPG, there's so many holes in this crackpot conspiracy theory like taking the Jello Knife so damn seriously, and the entire rest of the cast having seemed to have said goodbye to Asriel before he went off on his Collegue Trip.
But hey, as long as Jaru is having fun with his fanfic and isn't claiming it's objectively true, LOL, definitely not his best work though if you ask me.
Holy Moly Your theory legitimately sent chills down my spine. I don't know why I didn't watch this video soon because you come up with theories that just make so much sense
this theory may have its issues and be stretchy at parts but it was so interesting to watch, the script is so well written and the attention to detail is huge. my train of thoughts were guided by every point discussed and it was so satisfying how it was in sync every time. it has some strong points and i swear it got me interested to the end
Thank you very much. That's exactly what I like to hear. x)
This is a really cool theory. I’d look forward to something dark, yet darker than Undertale!
But… to play devil’s advocate, and build the best theory possible; if the Dark World is related to Asriel’s death that Kris is trying to cover up, why would we have the option to go to tell Undyne about it in the police station in Chapter 1?
Moreover, why would Toriel be okay with Asriel going to college without even telling her, and without a phone to contact her? We know she’d be worried sick! And if Asriel is controlling Kris, why would he be okay with seeing the existence of Ralsei?
Separately, Frisk could also be unable to rebel due to them likely being a younger child. Even then, there are some instances where they do, albeit more moderately, like “You couldn’t think of anything to say”… “You decided xyz”, etc.
"a horrifying theory"
**spongebob and patrick screaming on the kids rollercoaster**
Nah it was fairly distressinng. Not sure what the standard is, perhaps the world from the game Soma is scarier
@@BiomechanicalBrick ik its just the title doesn't really imply anything actually "scary" lol
24:46 in many of chapter 1 gags we see lancer "teleporting" from one side of the room to the other. I don't know how much it can be considered lore but the fact that he is the only other "dark world being" that travelled from one dark world into another is kind of suspicious.
Sorry for the bad english, love your video theories.
edit: just noticed that they're both dark world princes, i guess I'm just overanalizing.
Thank you for the kind words! If you don't mind me asking, in what specific instances does Lancer seem to teleport?
@@JaruJaruJ In the first "lancer cookie" gag you see lancer exiting the room on the right and immediatly after he comes up from the bottom.
As I said it could be all just for the gag.
Don't forget about Rouxls, who literally beams in and out of rooms without even pretending to walk. Though from what we've explicitly seen, both Lancer and Rouxls's teleportation is confined to a single Dark World, and possibly within a limited distance as well.
@@JaruJaruJ I don’t remember any lancer teleporting. But we do know two other darkners who can .
Rouxls kaard and jevil.
@@JaruJaruJ when he’s with susie at the bake sale he moves to the right of the screen and then comes from the bottom left
I'm midway through the video, and I just wanna say, It ocurred to me that maybe Asriel created grand fountain as a way for Kris to make friends when he's away? After all it would make sense for an older brother to be protective, and giving him a guardian/friend in the form of Ralsei would make some sense, that would also explain Ralsei's will to befriend people and influence Kris to do the same. The similarities to Asriel can be explained as a way for Kris to get used to him faster, and the missing red horns Kris had can be explained as Asriel using them to create Ralsei. And given that's there's a possibility that the reason Kris is opening fountains is to keep experiencing adventures and making friends even if it's selfish could be a result of Asriel's plan being a little too successful. Ofc I just thought this theory on the spot, so there might be some problems with it. I am also afraid that it's the theory you're presenting in the video because again, I haven't finished yet. Anyway that's all for now!
Hoo boy..
That's a wonderful theory! I hope your theory is true and my theory is wrong. The fact that you presented this theory about halfway through the video is morbidly hilarious, considering what the second half of the video entails. xD
This is actually what I thought personally! That plus Ralsei possibly being made by Kris’ costume is the perfect excuse for Ralsei being pretty much just Azzy
He could have used his fur as the monstrous essence.
"we've never had any darkner in our party"
hold up what about the original starwalker
Some things that confuse me (by around 55 minutes in):
1. Even if Kris was lying about Asriel's phone being broken, why don't they have their brother's number saved in their contacts? It would make no sense to delete his number nor would a broken phone erase the contact from other people's phones.
Asriel should still be a contact, and his number would probably just ring out if the phone was broken. Unless Kris suddenly got a new phone around the time Asriel disappeared and didn't know his brother's number.
2. Assuming Kris broke into the school to prank someone who would be in the building the next day, that implies that the school year has begun.
Colleges tend to start before or around the time of schools, so it would be odd if Asriel just disappeared off to college, especially if he has never talked about going to college. Wouldn't there be proof of enrollment or evidence of him applying?
Also, wouldn't Toriel be suspicious if her son went off to college in the middle of the night without telling anyone? With no packed bags, clothes, or any of his possessions besides what he was wearing and his phone (which broke the same night he decided to just move to college mid-semester)? No note, no nothing? Who's paying for this college? Why is there no paper trail at all? Did Asriel have a secret stash of clothes and items packed and waiting for him as he climbed out his window into the night?
Would Toriel and the whole town accept this on the testimony of one kid with no other proof?
Also, even is Toriel doesn't understand email, why would no one else in town? Even is Asriel has a new email address at college, why is he only emailing Kris? Would he just stop using his old email entirely?
Kris wouldn't have known his new email address without Asriel making contact first. If Asriel can send an email to his sibling, can't he send one to any of friends in town?
It is hard to fathom everyone accepting that Asriel disappeared off to college in the middle of night and can only contact one person by email. No new phone, no use of his old email, no reaching out to people he was friends with with a new one. Just almost complete radio silence after vanishing abruptly.
There are workarounds, and it is hard to imagine anyone, including Asriel, would be satisfied with this setup. Someone would have figured out how to make contact. Internet calls, video calls, email, social media, etc. Someone computer illiterate would have asked Kris for help to put them in contact with Kris, like Toriel asking Kris to set up a video call for her to see her son and make sure he's okay.
Even if not that, wouldn't Toriel ask to read one of Asriel's emails, especially if she asks Asriel to write to her via Kris?
3. We've seen monsters take full, should be lethal hits and survive, especially if one's LV and EXP were low. Isn't malicious intent needed to down a monster, especially a boss monster who is an adult?
One accidental hit shouldn't be enough to dust a monster, even if it was a serious one. Most higher level monsters need to be attacked multiple times with intent to defeat them.
My theory is, that the rooms in the hotel are like the accounts on the computer in the library. That's why there is Asriel's and not Ralsei's room
That makes a lot of sense actually! That's almost certainly canon, to be honest. The rooms literally contain their internet search history, so it makes a lot of sense for those rooms to represent their profiles/accounts. Good point!
I think the theory might be wrong, because Kris is LV 1 and has no EXP in the light world. If he had killed Asriel, he would have at least gained EXP
This begs the question what precisely counts as a "kill". If the requirement for gaining EXP is destroying the monster's soul, absorbing a boss monster's soul might not be enough to kill it. The monster could still technically be alive, especially since the soul alone still has the power to control its bearer. If that is the case, Kris might have killed Asriel's body without gaining EXP, because he absorbed Asriel's soul to potentially find a way to revive him later.
In Jaru's theory Asriel was killed by an *accident* . So Kris might not killed his brother by his hands. He could just be in the wrong place at the wrong time, thus not gaining any EXP.
@@IgorS. I mean, at the end of the day he did kill him. I don‘t think it‘s important if it‘s by accident. It is the action of the killing that has that effect on your soul, not your intention
I actually disagree! Nothing in Snowgrave gets you LV and beating up Asgore in UNDERTALE doesn't get you LV, so I think Kris accidently hurting Asriel wouldn't affect their LV either. LV is, according to Sans, "A way of measuring someone's capacity to hurt," so if Kris never wanted to hurt anyone, and thus had no capacity to hurt, then it stands to reason that their EXP/LV wouldn't increase. Could be wrong, but I don't think accidently hurting someone counts as an "Execution."
Maybe he was fatally wounded by something else and kris was just there when he died
Well, you're definitely making a lot of testable predictions! I'd say that even one more chapter's release would confirm or disconfirm practically everything you have predicted in this video. I'm excited for the next release, and it'll be interesting to look back at these videos after that time!
this is like an early matpat video
I feel like Toby's watching this rn and gonna make Chapter 3 contradict this entire theory
I doubt Toby has even the slightest idea who I am or what my crackpot theories are. xD
@@JaruJaruJ Well ya never know!
I remember hearing a theory where the cutscene at the beginning of chapter 2 is actually a flashback to something entirely different.
"Is that a... a knife!!?"
Assuming that Asriel is the type of person to call his brother honey, I can definitely imagine that cutscene being closely associated with the theory you've come up with. Your idea could also explain the line, "Don't forget, I'm with you in the dark."
Precisely!
Omg Toriel knows it all!! :O She could have witnessed it!
That one beggar Jigsawry says Ralsei will "call you honey" if you pay, to which Ralsei says he'd do it whether you paid them or not, which would maybe point to Asriel also being the type to call you honey👀
It's definitely tories "voice" though
There is... a third option that is neither "joke about Kris eating pie and Toriel catching them" nor "Kris accidentally stabbing Asriel and Toriel catching the tragedy".
Why does Kris, a troubled teenager with feelings of being somewhat "wrong", have a bandage on themselves at the start of the game? What is an action that requires Kris having a knife, Toriel being horrified, and Kris having a bandage?
watching this is just essentially watching JaruJaru miss an obvious piece of evidence that shuts his whole point down as he descends into psychosis
I'm quite certain any evidence you're thinking of has been brought up a thousand times in these comments and has been debunked by me in the replies to said comments a thousand times as well. xP
@@JaruJaruJ I really do just struggle to believe that everybody accepts that Asriel just kind of vanished to college without saying goodbye, packing anything at all, or even a way to communicate.
I think that this video just speculated too much. It is certainly an interpretation of what is shown in the games, I just don't think that it will be the actual route Toby chose for this game.
I'm much more inclined to believe that a lot of Ralsei's abilities are just being understated and hidden than a plot of accidental murder, hiding evidence with a solution that is extremely temporary, and a possession plot line where the dead soul of Asriel is somehow controlling the significantly stronger human soul of Kris