No One Dares Push Back BECAUSE... | Destiny Reflects On The Trans Debate
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มี.ค. 2022
- Destiny explains why it's important to discuss the trans sports issue because it can lead to more transphobia in the general public before it reaches a critical mass.
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Destiny Gets Dogpiled In HEATED 1v9 Debate Panel On Trans Sports ►th-cam.com/video/nPss2z6ua1Y/w-d-xo.html
Follow Up Debate On Trans Sports After 1v9 Panel ►th-cam.com/video/UpNlPxkCQ1s/w-d-xo.html
I stand by giving AMABs handicap. In races, throws, lifts and jumps
Add a new electrum medal for trans athletes
Even if it's at little as the cissies win ties
One thing we’re a million miles from being able to calculate is the issue Destiny canMt get anyone to address, which is how does competing as a male through your development change after transitioning if it does. The ultimate answer physically may depend on questions of neurology we’re not even close to understanding.
This whole video is COPE
Kudos to Hasan for finding the dumbest thing he could say in 30 seconds once again
His ability to sound like an uninformed idiot on virtually every topic is pretty impressive. If he wasn't so serious and have such a massive audience I would think he was trolling.
we are all good at something.
@@Omnorimli Source?
"would you want to have a basketball league that is only for men over 6 feet tall" is a solid counter argument.
You guys are being manipulated so hard. There's no way you know Hasan's argument from a 3 second clip...
@@Theyungcity23 what are you even talking about
Hasan: It doesn't matter because if you disagree you're transphobic, and transphobia is bad.
Well, I can't argue with such a convincing point.
In the past what Hassan is advocating for would have been deemed misogyny by women. Or at least it would have been a popular sentiment,
I think we should start calling these idiots misogynists for wanting unfair advantages against cis women
@@benjaminratthe9904 'Normal women'
@@deeznutz8320 Watch out, if you say that people will spend hours on the word "normal" instead of discussing your actual point lol
Bro, these people are legit in a cult. There can be no disagreeing or discussions. You either align with us, or be ostracized.
They're in the woke Church of Nonbinaries. Recognizing reality is heresy to the doctrine.
The far left is fitting more and more neatly into the criteria for what is considered a cult by the day. And I've said for a long time that they're "cult like", because they've shared a lot of those characteristics for years now. But I don't throw around the term "cult" lightly, that means a specific thing, it actually drives me crazy when people call any group they disagree with a cult (like the far left does with anyone who's not on the far left). But they're really only lacking an organized "worship" style structure to be considered a full blown cult at this point. And some of the shit I've seen on university campuses even loosely fits into that.
@@markzuckergecko621 If you check out Benjamin Boyce's gender absurdity video, there's a female guest who debunks/refutes, with sharp logic, the absurd positions pushed regarding gender theology and goes through science follies being presented. She explains the that how their religion works and contradicts itself.
@@markzuckergecko621 The guest I mentioned, her page is in benjamin's description box.
@@Buck7205 I've never heard of him, I'm actually bouncing back and forth between this and UFC right now, but I might check that out tonight. It's definitely absurd though, the left has lost their marbles.
If it really turns out that Destiny got banned on twitch for this super mild position of basically just protecting women's sport (on top of his vast pro-trans content), then there's really no hope for online politics.
Its probably the mass report brigading that got him banned, maybe in combination with some "allies" on Twitch staff, he is right about the online far left politics white MtF community being extremely toxic and should just be avoided, he just realized too late.
I feel like the simplest solution is the to have men, woman’s, trans men, trans woman, and then have an open division that’s tiered like some of the online games ( bronze, silver, diamond, etc)
@@jsgdk These activists purposefully become moderators in all online spaces to manage what everyone can say and silence any dissent. They also actively ban and smear those who disagree with them for any reason. Let's face it, the 'allies' and 'leaders' of left leaning issues are just downright toxic and controlling. The left quite frankly has always been its greatest enemy or allows its enemy to run it.
@@Buck7205 Some of them among Destiny moderators, I got banned from his twitch chat for basically arguing Destiny's point in his own chat, I was not even rude or anything, know of atleast 1 other person who also got banned for agreeing with Destiny in his own chat, another left leaning person btw.
@@bubblytortilla no, do not negotiate with terrorists. Give them nothing. There are open leagues (men's in professional sports, because women generally aren't good enough to compete) and women's leagues. Only women are allowed in women's leagues. That's why they exist. Everyone who is not a woman has to either compete in an open league or not at all. If people just want to play sports for fun, there are casual leagues for that. Pro sports have standards.
It's worrying that people who are supposed advocates for trans are the ones encouraging actions that will inevitably lead to severe societal backlash and fuel conservative arguments and talking points.
self defeating innit
They’re ideologically committed to a stance instead of being nuanced and reasonable.
They don't see it that way and will shit on you for being realistic
I don't think capitulating to not fueling conservative talking points lead to positive social progress though. Saying black people are equal to white people actually was at one point according to some just "not proven by science and way too far, fueling the remaining slave owners their augments" I imagine.
Or something like that, but yeah you can go so far with something that it makes your overall argument look weaker if it's starting to represent your side as a whole and is something that is so out of the box and "unproven", and also not even very related to the main position and social rights you want to push. Which at least a lot of online lefties can do.
It is not gonna be that way. Politics is about power and you can bet money on the fact that if this position becomes something you loose votes on, it isn't gonna be a conservative argument. It is going to be main democrat consesus and this line of thinking is gonna be relegated to the super far left political wing. I'd even go as far as saying even Sanders and AOC are not gonna stand on that platform in the long run - not because they don't care about trans people, but because they have a fucking brain. The left wing of the democratic party had a good run for power over the last years and did good work to establish itself more within the mainstream. People think Sanders did his run because he only wanted to be president. That man is smart guys and his timing wasn't by accident - win or not, he put the left on the map to stay. He waited decades to do his run and people like him and the ones behind him aren't gonna risk that achievement over such a delusional debate. Don't make this about possibly risking conservative talking points getting heard. The credibility of the left is at stake and that is the real danger. That's gonna be the real problem for the left: Not that people will listen to conservatives, but that they for sure as hell aren't gonna listen to what the left has to say.
Destiny is 100% right. It’s so non controversial it’s hilarious
Banned LULE
yeah this is the last thing i thought he would get banned over
This man is *too* correct. Twitch needs to stop him.
True, I cannot even imagine the mental gymnastics required to keep arguing against this position
@@aeiouaeiou100 The mental gymnastics would be that they do have an advantage, but advantages are okay in sports, just like how tall people have an inherent advantage in most sports, especially basketball. Much like how a ciswoman would have almost no chance to go pro in a world with millions of transathletes, a man who was born with below average height has virtually 0 chance of getting into the NBA (the shortest guy in the NBA is 5'9, so average height). It would be nice if shorter people had the chance to become NBA stars, but we drew the line at gender/sex, not height, so short people aren't allowed to compete in the NBA, basically. When you think of it that way, ciswoman have it good, there will never be enough transwomen to push out all ciswomen in any sport, but there is enough tall men to push out every short man from the NBA.
I actually disagree with myself and was only playing devil's advocate, but it's important to be able to think of the opposing view's argument otherwise you can't say with confidence that you are correct, do you have a counter to what I wrote?
That Hasan take at the start of the video is mind numbingly stupid. He flat out LIES about there being ‘empirical evidence’ that trans athletes don’t have an advantage over other female athletes.
Bone mineral density, muscle mass, lung/organ size, cardio-respiratory efficiency, recovery, limb length, haematological parameters, motor unit recruitment are all in favour of the trans athlete. It doesn’t matter whether they win or lose in their respective sport - the fact that they have an unfair advantage is the issue at hand. And Hasan just ignores that…
But he cites studies that show that there isn't a relevant difference
@@Theyungcity23 The studies are wrong.
@@strikeforce5331 I just double checked all the studies. They’re all right.
@@Theyungcity23 They are right because you agree with the conclusion
@@Theyungcity23 **Drags nuts across screen**
Frankly, this is horrifying. If destiny isn’t far left enough, there can be NO public resistance. At all.
Welcome to the life of right wingers. The only acceptable worldview is the NPC late night host worldview.
@@LiftingAccidents most talk show host would be burned alive since they are not even this much to the left...
@@tatoesmuncher4913 you missed the point
This is what happens when people think left=good and right=bad, and the more left you go, the better person you are by default, without realizing that being a radical of any variety tends to make you an extremely douchey and short-sighted person.
Only on twitch lol it's not a worldwide catastrophy mate
Imagine getting dogpiled by your own side for such a moderate take. Feel bad for Destiny. He's the only left wing commentator I can listen to without wanting to sunset myself
Cos he uses logic. Right wing is now just a synonym for anyone who dares to think for themselves using logic against the herd mentality.
the left were acting like this since 2018. Destiny used to dispute that, unless it slowly creeped in as real and not only twitter clash.
@@zootsoot2006 I'm pretty sure the right has massive issues with illogical people, but so does the left. People are just very prone to group think right now. I drifted from the right partly because they have bad herd mentality issues and went to look for other voices.
@@willjapheth23789 True, the right wing does. But as Jordan Peterson pointed out the right wing is pretty well-delineated between standard right-wingers and wacko right-wingers, and right-wingers like Peterson or Douglas Murray spend quite just as much time denouncing the wackos on the right as the wackos on the left. Can't really be said for people who self-identify on the left and who are fully accepted as members on the left. To stay on the left you pretty much have to drift further and further to the left oneself and never attack anyone who is further to the left, or else be denounced as a turncoat and suffer banishment, just like Destiny.
@@zootsoot2006 lol, right wing people are illogical quite frequently. And Jordan Peterson is a wacko.
It's weird how the more moderate takes are seen as blasphemous and the more extreme takes are totally chill.
Oh how far we've come.
Twitter is cancer
The Cons were right holy shit
@@yorhahoudini4531 slippery slope is a fallacy, but its also true
@@Brandovichie I have issue with the slippery slope fallacy…. Sometimes you can point to historical examples of the slippery slope in action, but I still have to acknowledge that it isn’t directly cogent…. The longer I live, though, the more often I see some of my peers’ slippery slope arguments I’ve ridiculed in the past be proven accurate.
@@yorhahoudini4531 always have been.
Neolibs are based. Populism sucks dick
The over confidence and smugness in some of these other panelists was insuffrable
Honestly let trans women into women's sports.
Let women learn their lesson for supporting this stuff the hard way.
Like there is no need for transphobia if you really don't like trans people.
As long as you just avoid them in day to day life because they have already pretty much sterilized themselves.
In the end straight people who work on their character and their understanding of the human state will prosper while all the leftists can complain on twitter or twitch or any of these other ses pits.
@@arthurcallahan4735 "Let women learn their lesson for supporting this stuff the hard way."
They will still blame men cause everything is men's fault. LMAO
"Like there is no need for transphobia if you really don't like trans people.
As long as you just avoid them in day to day life because they have already pretty much sterilized themselves."
You can avoid them, but they refuse to be avoided....I was told refusing to date trans women is transphobic, lol
@@jammadan yea "live and let live" is an impossible philosophy to live by as long as the far left is growing like a fungus. Their philosophy is "let me live and validate me right now or you're a bigot!!!! Oh and I don't care if you live."
It's the SJW fuel, you will see this smugness in nearly all of them. Biology no longer exists.
Yeah thats leftist culture
you can feel the 2016 swing coming. these people are insane
They always were. 2016 was an important lesson, in which they learnt nothing.
Almost like the jordan peterson types were right
Yuuuup. always have voted against democrats, always will.
Buncha crazies...fuckin nutcases that don't know how to take a step back and look at the big picture
@@jonmacdonald2193 it was pretty telling for me when in one of the last debates multiple panelists full on admitted ‘well then yes, we are trying to erase women’s spaces. Fuck em, if they can’t keep up they can’t keep up’ Lmao. Yet they use it as an example of a transphobic terf argument if you point out that’s what they’re doing -.-
That Hasan take has me floored. I mean, calling it unnatural is a bit rude...I mean...cmon. If you have to get there via surgery and hormone therapy this is inherently unnatural, no?
Anybody feel free to clarify the Hasan take. I genuinely want to know.
Judging Hasan's head to body ratio we can only deduce that big brain takes are not an option.
Unnatural in the sense that it's immoral and a scheme.
I don't understand why whenever Destiny reacts to a Hasan clip it's like a 3 second snip of something he talked about for over an hour. He even quoted a pro trans women in sports argument from Destiny at one point.
@@Theyungcity23 right but when people talk about sports "unnatural" isn't about morality or anything, it's just about PEDs and stuff like that. Taking hormones that help your performance (even if it's not the point) would make you "unnatural/non-natty" in the eyes of everyone else in sports. Bodybuilders are unnatural, that's the way the term is being used here. I don't think anybody is using that term the way you're describing it here.
Don't bother trying to understand Hasan. His IQ is in the single digits, just barely enough to function, eat, drink, sleep and produce word-like sounds but contains little of substance.
@@fatnose0 You don't think that conservatives are making a moral judgement on trans people?
Do you remember when conservatives made moral judgement on gay people and women who had sex before marriage?
The argument Hasan is making is that they are feigning a concern with fairness in sports to advance a long established condemnation of trans people. It's like "ethics in journalism" campaign that we saw a couple years back.
People that argue for this shit are the same people that havent played a sport since middle school
I'm sorry but this ban has been a long time coming and I can't believe you thought you'd get away with it for so long. Not because of anything to do with the trans stuff just because of the sheer audacity of your food takes. Justice is finally served.
@@slime8177 When is the time to joke? get over it.
@@slime8177 bro chill, we aren't a cult
Cis gender is based.
Definitely had me in the first half 🤣
@@slime8177 yeah we need to be mad and pout because that will fix things.
This is one of the most one sided issues destiny has ever engaged with. Nobody with a serious sports background thinks a Trans women doesn't have serious advantages over cis women athletes
I’m seeing girls I know from softball have to play against teams with a couple trans people who are like 6’3 and look like tight ends. It’s beyond ridiculous.
@Mitthenstein ""Pretty much any way you slice it, trans women are going to have strength advantages even after hormone therapy. I just don't see that as anything else but factual," said Joanna Harper, a medical physicist at Britain's Loughborough University. "
You're not an expert, you're an activist. Don't destroy your credibility when everyone can see with their own eyes
@Mitthenstein At some point in time, there was no evidence that smoking was bad for your health.
@Mitthenstein Of course there's zero evidence. The science around this is practically brand new. We should not be changing the status quo for a fraction of a percentage of people based on unsettled science. "Zero evidence" does not mean that it's not true, it means that it's inconclusive. You think "inconclusive" means "well then full steam ahead". Rational people think "inconclusive" means "wait and see".
Frankly, I'd expect someone with your alleged credentials to understand that, but I suspect you aren't thinking rationally about this in the slightest.
@Mitthenstein I pointed out a hole in your logic by using a similar argument that could've been made 100 years ago. Let's say for the sake of the argument that no study, so far, could show bad side effects to vaping. Would you be certain that vaping is safe? I would assume that you would answer no to that question. Why are you drawing a conclusion off of lack of evidence when it comes to the "trans women in sports" debate then?
The whole point of arguing against trans athletes in sports is to make sure the space is just as fair for trans women as it is for cis women. If one side has an undue advantage, we should be able to talk about it and buff out the edges of the issue.
Yeah but the argument is also about how much of an advantage they have. The effects of estrogen drastically cuts down on whatever biological advantage a trans woman has over cis women. So then the debate kind of becomes about the ethics of advantage when it comes to professional sports. If we shouldn’t let trans women compete with cis women because of supposed advantages then doesn’t this necessarily open the door to say, not allowing people over a certain height to play basketball?
@@flowerchild8450 my issue with that claim is that those studies look at normal just every day people, not people who trained rigorously for the entirety of their childhood through puberty. I agree, there should be safe places for trans athletes to play. However it shouldn't be at the expense of cis women.
@@flowerchild8450 also the point of this video wasn't to argue the point, but to elucidate how the conversation is being taken to a point where you can't push back against any aspect of the trans athlete conversation.
@@deebo429__ yeah but the evidence has yet to be presented that transwomens’ inclusivity into sports lies at the expense of cis women.
@@flowerchild8450 cool. I'm not arguing one side or the other on the issue. I'm just arguing that the conversation needs to be able to be held. And right now you're attacked for being transphobic for trying to have the conversation.
Man, the amount of backlash for comments that are considered average in the real world is hilarious. Most people in the real world that are not terminally online or on highly left leaning university areas would broadly agree with Destiny. Most people do not think it is fair to have trans women compete in cis-women athletic events.
Please, inhale lawn trimmings people
“Most people would broadly agree with Destiny”
Lol source needed but even if that was the case then so what? The appeal should be to who’s perspective on this issue is correct, not over which perspective has amassed the most amount of people.
@@flowerchild8450 53% of women and 73% of men believe transpeople should compete with the gender assigned at birth according to a Gallup poll . Not that it makes it any more right but you asked for data.
@@flowerchild8450 a perspective on the issue doesn't matter at all, what matters is the science behind verifying whether or not there are a substantial other of differences between Trans women and Cis women, which it sound be very obvious that there is a substantial difference when if every Cis man and Cis women in the world were to transition, men's sports would literally not suddenly have an increased rate of shorter athletes with shorter arms, while women's sports from basketball to tennis to track will have an increased average height.
All you have to do is go take a look at a sport where height is incredibly important, like basketball, now can you go ahead and tell me the average height for players in the NBA as well as the average height for players in the WNBA?
@@flowerchild8450 People bring that up because everyone who's militant about their political opinions, like the people destiny debated, constantly assume that they are in the majority, instead of realizing that they're extremists.
Plenty of people call Destiny a far right when he tends to reflect the average left leaning american voter.
@@La0bouchere This is my first time listening to Destiny, and I can already tell you that anybody who thinks he is "far right" is beyond delusional. The spectrum has moved so far to the Left that not being a borderline communist and wanting men to compete in women's sports = "far right." The things the Left are pushing is going to cause an enormous societal/cultural pendulum swing because everybody in the center/center left/anybody with a brain thinks its fucking insane.
It's like starting a game of BroodWar with 5 workers instead of 4. Then 15 minutes later, you kill off 1 and call it "fair"
exactly
"is being trans unnatural"
depends
the psychological state of being? probably not.
taking hormones your body doesnt produce? probably unnatural.
is that transphobic? if it is, I got a question
why the fuck does something have to be natural to be *ok*?
in sports it matters, but does it matter for anything else?
Hasan's unnatural vs natural argument missed the point anyways. Both men and women are natural yet we still recognize that we have to separate them for most sports.
Being trans is natural, it's just an unintended biproduct of an imperfect biological process
@@vossboss220the state of being absolutely yeah. the treatment is probably not natural, but also
except for sports
but other than that being not natural seems to be irrelevant
@@vossboss220 Of abuse and mental indoctrination*
I think the reason why people have such a strong reaction to the "natural argument" is that it has been used for centuries to discriminate against homosexuality. Not saying you are incorrect (I agree with you) but I can see how it can give off that sort of vibe.
I watched a debate panel in 2020 on trans athletes and I remember so vividly thinking to myself that the pro-side of the debate was arguing as if they were standing on much sturdier ground than the research would suggest. There are concepts that are fundamental to the treatment of heart diseases, something that affects a large swath of the population, which are barely 30 years old in terms of when the research on them was first published. Most research on trans issues was published within the last 20 years. Even the authors of the works they proudly cite wouldn't make any policy prescriptions based on their research findings.
It seems that lot of what is condidered "pro-trans" research was published in the last eight to ten years.
Destiny's right in a lot of what he's saying but the thing he, and especially the people who are for men and women to compete against each other are missing is that men's and woman's physiology is different, it's not just a hormone difference, you can't take a man, give them female hormones and have their physiology change into a females. There are small differences and huge differences, it's why some medication works differently, has different contraindications and potentially serious side effects between the sexes. Just because you add female hormones to a biological male, you don't suddenly have the hormone profile of a female, even with testosterone blockers it still plays a huge effect and when they talk about detectable levels of a hormone, men use testosterone twenty times more efficiently than females, there is a endocrine disease that affects males that requires supplemental testosterone to treat because they have inactive genes that create protein that use testosterone or something similar to that, it means they process it like women do and thus need a much higher available supply to have the same utilization as the average man. Besides this, for most trans people, they don't block testosterone because it causes problems with sexual function and especially depression, lack of motivation and drive, and greatly impairs your immune response. The debate isn't about you got an advantage early in life and did it wear off yet, the advantage is that you're a male competing with females. Frankly, as far as medicine has come, we only have trivial barely functional transition medicine, essentailly they try to 'correct' your homones and send you on your way, SRS or chemical castrastion is an option but only used rarely. The debate is too lost in the medical utopia that a male can become a female and whether there are any lingering advantages when the objective reality is that it is males, with their physiogical advantages competing with females regardless of how long they've been transitioned or what level of testosterone is detected in their blood. The stupid thing, and something Destiny is right about, is that people are so concerned with virtue signalling that they argue for their side no matter how crazy the position is, it's this way with a lot of subjects but in this subject it's more obviously absurd, if males who transitioned didn't have huge advantages than how can you tell that they're biologically male from 100 yards away in half a second? Assuming, arguendo, that it was fair then why do these proven average athletes when they were male turn into literally the best ever competitor in their sport against women, that's the second most obvious answer only because the first most obvious answer is every single human's lived experience.
I've been saying this for a while. I have often looked at these "definitive" studies that "prove" things for trans positivity ideas. Most of them have huge dropout rates, unregulated or insane measurements, or are incredibly small sample sizes followed over a very short time frame. Often in the conclusions they say these things directly and advise that much more research is necessary, but people like to bandwagon on whatever pushes their now borderline religious ideology.
Yep. Honestly, after watching these panels I feel like nobody on the pro sides of the arguments even has a clue how science actually works.
It will be a decade, maybe even multiple decades, before there is broad scientific consensus on these issues. Building scientific consensus is not about a couple of studies. If you look hard enough you can find a handful of studies that support any position you want. You need tons of studies by different groups who don't all have the same incentives, you need them to be replicated, and then before you build policies you need meta studies on top of that.
The science around this will not be settled for a long time, but they are arguing as if they have some strong empirical data that supports their side. They just don't, it's that simple.
@@TheWolfWon and funded by trans actvist groups. Studies became political tools, when you are activist you care only about achieving your political goal, truth doesnt matter.
"The difference of strength between men and woman is not that different"
Recently Tamara Walcott broke the woman's world record for deadlift at 641 Ibs. The current world record for men is 1102 Ibs, set by Halthor Bjornsson. Hell a few months ago they had a contest with some of the world's strongest men and 6 of them deadlifted over 1000 Ibs. Obviously i'm not saying this at all to take away from ms. Walcott's achievements, I'm a man and I can't deadlift that; but If you're a man and your max deadlift is 641, they're gonna laugh at you. Nah I'm kidding their gonna tell you to keep getting in their and grinding because that is the culture of strongman.
Nah nah, they would laugh at you first and then would tell you to get in there and get those gains.
I could dead lift 560 lbs in high school my senior year and I wasn’t even dedicating my life to it just going to the mandatory football team lifts everyday. It’s not even close women cannot compete even if an average man dedicated 1 year to lifting or any sport as long as it’s not highly technical like figure skating or gymnastics the man will eclipse the female.
id tell you to transition so that you can get a first place finish
There are physical activities and sports women are just as good if not better at….. just not in the major sporting events….
It should be noted that Men have been seriously training and participating in sports at a professional level longer than women. If you look at the average times or records set by men just a few decades ago, they're significantly less than what we have now. We know how to train the male body to the limit, and we'll probably keep pushing it.
This hasn't really been the case for women who I think still have a long ways to go in finding their training that's optimal for them, and whatever other differences have that are pushing male athletes further and further.
With that said, I don't think women athletes are ever going to be as good as males in most sports (and not anywhere close in others), but I think the differences will shrink by a good amount at some point.
These debates about trans-women are so boring, an hour of destiny making reasonable points grounded in reality, just to be met with "well yea, but *random moral excuse or incorrect data*"
So much garbage takes around this topic. The point of making categories in sport is to gather people of equivalent athleticism so that the public feels like competition is fair and not completly dominated by a subset of participant with specific attributes. As stated by Destiny, the debate should be focused around evaluating how much being trans gives you an advantage.
Amen! 👍
BASED
I wouldn't go calling others takes garbage when you make such a dense take yourself. Are you seriously saying that a certain subset of the population doesn't dominate every sport?
I'll give you a hint, what's the average height of the population, and what's the average height of the NBA. Whoops, it's looks like a subset of of population is dominating sports! Oh wait.. sports is INTENDED to select for certain portions of the gen pop. If tall people dominate sports sports is working as intended, if trans people dominate sports everyone loses their mind. It's not that a subset dominating is unfair. its that THIS SPECIFIC subset doing so is unfair.
@@trentjordan5984 I would be okay with height categories in basketball though. If we follow your logic of not acknolewdging quantitative differences why not abolishing male/female categories altogether in every sports and see what happens. The limits are always a bit arbitrary as it is about drawing lines but they enable huge portions of the population to participate in competitive tournaments which might not be longer possible if trans athlete were to dominate their sports.
@@Blaze6108 This is true except in ball game centered sports.
Yup, not all type of advocacy is good.
Bad advocacy actually hurts, not just the movement, but the people you are fighting for(they are the most affected)
This was the major black(outside the US) critique of BLM(2016).
I fear this might happen to trans people
The criticism should have been that it was an obvious marketing term. It's an organization which can have it's own flaws being represented as a movement while using the same logos and imagery and an innocuous phrase that nobody can really disagree with. I'm a conservative that doesn't believe people should abort their babies but I've always hated the phrase "pro-life" for the same reasons. Other than a few rotten eggs, the vast majority of pro-choice people are also "pro-life."
@@secularjihadi Line the pockets of the founders
I was never so anti Black until 2020 BLM happened.
It was a total change from moderate noticing things to a failed artist in Austria.
@@anthonyhiscox I think that's opinion of almost everyone. _Should_ you abort past the super early stages? If you can manage, _probably_ not, depending on the context. This issue is when you make it illegal.
@@SniperDizzyJohny Please don't be anti black, BLM does not represent blacks and there are many blacks who spoke out against BLM
The question of whether HRT does enough to bridge the gap between men and women has been looked at by Derek from MPMDs and he reasonably concludes a resounding no, so far.
The prior parameters of 200ngl/DL test levels are still more than twice the t levels of a hyper hyper elite female athlete, which is to say zero women have that level of androgens without TRT.
This is ignoring the years of elevated movement pattern excellence, strength, speed and muscle accrual that a male hormone profile at puberty will give a person.
Also as a side note, this is just in the competitions that are still requiring the hormones be monitored, the Olympics has apparently gotten rid of this for trans people.
@@iannovak5223 when the discrepancy between male and female is so massive that the vast majority of one group couldn't even dream of breaking the top 100 then yes it should
"Also as a side note, this is just in the competitions that are still requiring the hormones be monitored, the Olympics has apparently gotten rid of this for trans people."
Not to far off in the future, the 2 categories will be Men and Division 2 Men
@@iannovak5223 are you implying that the difference between black and white athletes is anywhere comparable to the difference between male and female athletes?
@@iannovak5223 no
@@iannovak5223 no, the difference between races is in no way comparable to the advantages a biological man has over a woman
Destiny did nothing wrong
What he argued wasn't even 1% transphobic, that is the scary part if he was really banned for this topic. Malice and intent should matter when you ban someone and not just hurt feelings when someone makes a completely reasonable and respectful argument.
Well... I guess I'm transphobic now. Who knew?
Fuck. The conservatives were right.
Told you
No we were?
Atleast you admit to it, be it fucking 6 years late
@@deeznutz8320 Bruh, you were right about one thing, don't go nutz. XD
You forgot the feminists, who were also "right"
@@tomgjgj Bruh, we were right about one thing you've admitted. All sane leftists will inevitably come around to the right wing thinking, because a sane individual cares about objective truth.
Keep being you brother
I think the direction of the channel lately has been very informative and real.
lets go life
This trans-support-obsession without compromise is going to backlash so hard when the top 3 winners in every women's sport is trans.
Brace for transphobia, you asked for it.
Transphobia is a made up word
@@crispy4797 Gender dysphoria may very well be latent homosexuality or autistim for all we know.
@@Buck7205 There are trans female lesbians so I'd doubt the former. Gender and sexuality aren't quite that linked.
@@Elitist That doesn't refute it, that just the lack of adequate safegaurding. There could be "trans female lesbians" doing these procedures for cosmetic pleasure, whilst young gays and autistic kids also may be encouraged/misdiagnosed into these procedures as well. The whole self-gendering thing is way too subjective for us split out which is which.
Yeah its getting out of hand. What world do we live in? Gee, this ain't good.
destiny - you are one of my fav streamers because youre intellectually honest.
these nerd ass jocks like hassan can never imitate your true and honest genius.
stay true and keep your head up.
Hassan a jock, LOL!
@@grantwithers Typo, he meant joke
@@grantwithers Hassan literally is a lefty jock
He larps as a leftist so he can smash leftwing harlots
Love the Ye reference
"there's going to be apoint where too many trans women are winning too many events and it will be changed thewn". Throughout sporting history this has always been how an unfair advantage was judged.
Through history we separated sporting events based on sex not gender. I’m not appeal to tradition but I’m just saying.
Except the solution then would be to remove trans women from women's sports, which will never happen without significantly more backlash. And if it doesn't happen (which it won't) then it's just gonna fuel the TERF movement. This is about more than just sports.
Then why not just have cis men compete in women's sports?
@@NothingElseMattersJM No, but we used to have a 6.5ft man built like a box of hard ons fight 4ft Willie the eager but grossly unprepared Glaswegian until in practice it was noted that willie was frequently in hospital. It's also how we looked at perfomance enhancing suppliments and the most fair way we could look at protecting goalkeepers in football when they were frequently getting emptied. Almost every rule we have regarding fairness in sports were learned in practice.
@@OldSkoolWax Lebron James in the WNBA? Lol
Destiny is correct about not losing all your muscles. This can also be explained by older men who used to workout or play sports, they can still lift a decent amount of weight even if they’re out of shape as their muscles have that muscle memory. It’s not just something that vanishes away
This is like taking the Flash and telling him to run no faster than Usain Bolt on his best day and then considering all the gold medals he wins to somehow be an achievement. They’re not.
One of the problems is a lot of people won't acknowledge that there is a huge difference between a man who has trained, conditioned & competed for a substantial period of their life as a man with men for men sports, for example (lea thomas). Then claim that HRT does the same thing to them as someone who hasn't trained, conditioned & competed for a substantial period. People need to understand & acknowledge there is NOT a 1 size fits all for most anything in life let alone competition.
It's Lia short for William.
Problem is, you can't make this argument with people who have never played a sport in their lives. I grew playing sports my whole life and I spent my childhood getting dominated thoroughly by my older brother and his friends. However, that made it way easier when I'd drop back down to playing against my own age group. And that applies to several sports, where I'd have to struggle to play baseball in a Babe Ruth diamond or play football on a full field. Sliding back down to a youth field against kids my own age made it way easier to compete.
Obviously, my feeble attempts against teenagers that were 5 years older than me were pathetic but finding ways to survive tackles, slap-shots and hard rebounds against them made organized sports seem easy by comparison.
And then to your point.... what is the core part of their argument? That it's okay for dudes to play against women, so long as they have been sufficiently handicapped? This entire situation has literally turned into an episode of South Park.
If they acknowledge that fact that would burst their delusional bubble right?
transwomen make women who abuse steroids look fair by comparison, and yet women on steroids are not allowed to compete but transwomen are. makes sense
Even women with naturally higher levels of testosterone are barred from a lot t of competitions
@@vossboss220 exactly - and I'm pretty sure transwomen still have more T than them so it's patently absurd they're able to compete
@@DistantKingdom and this whole thing isnt just about hormones there's also bone density and muscle mass and lung capacity differences too. This would still be a horrible idea if it were *just* hormones.
I'm in my 20s, work out very infrequently but I don't think that I've ever in my life met a woman that could physically dominate me.
Btw August your edits lately have been exceptional, fkn dope
Yeah the puberty blocker contradiction was something I wondered if that would be reconciled amongst the trans sports advocates.
Ppl need to actually talk to athletes.. bc these takes about skeletal structure and ability to produce more O2 not being an Athletic advantage are laughable I was an athlete my entire life and the idea that these things wouldn’t help you in an athletic endeavor I just literally insane to me
Given that the woman Destiny had a conversation with after the last panel had absolutely no idea what she was talking about (as evidenced by her engagement in the comments), this is going to go very badly. She's no different to 90% of the other advocates.
Thank you for talking about trans men! Nobody ever does. 😭
I feel for you guys honestly 😅 I think you either get thrown under the bus or forgot about and it sucks ! ❤️
Because you guys seem to be way more chill about things, from what I've seen at least
ikr? Anytime this debate is ever had, it's like everyone forgets that transmen exist. Weird how for all the moral panic about transwomen in womens sports, everyone is completely silent about transmen entering mens sports
@@BenYork-UBY To be fair, cis men would be at an advantage over trans men so that's why you don't really see a debate
@@benjaminratthe9904 Jaime Raines isn't chill.
Destiny needs to checkout MPMD videos. Trasns women retain such an unimaginable advantage even after years on HRT and he explains exactly what they are.
Im sorry you got banned on twitch my friend.
Ive watched you exclusively on youtube for a while now because fuck twitch. Only watch algs on twitch.
Just in time for my lunch!
Didn’t expect to see you here Chase, love your content and hope you have a wonderful day
Also same though haha I think I'm gonna get a tuna melt and listen to this in my car
What a massive
Dude you are obsessed.
@@lampad4549 Destiny's content is really good! I also don't really consume a ton of media or other creators.
Thank you for offering rational points of views based on facts & evidence over ideals. We all have ideals, but the facts are what dictate reality. People cannot bend reality as much as theyd wish. I know how frustrating that is.
You sound like a right winger, check yourself.
@@Jomoko lol, right winger.... on this issue the right is....right
@@jammadan translation-"fall in line completely or you can put your Maga hat on and gtfo"
Hasan having a Demommama moment- He practically took that argument right out of her playbook
I just had an argument with a guy who said "why don't we have a separate sports league for people with big lungs if we are going to cry about trans people"
Why even compete in sports we should all receive gold medals by simply being born.
Love arguments like these.
Can't wait to see the medals podium where it's just 3 copies of Michael Phelps and all the women come last, LUL
Because at this point you might as well put a sign on top of the building that says: "no cis girls allowed".
Then again, the person you were arguing with would probably like that.
She actually went on to say that since Lauren hubbard didn't do well in the onlypics that that's proof I'm full of shit.
But hubbard failed due to technical stuff, not "not being strong enough".
So I done a little digging and apparently she broke 2 world records in 1 event in 2017.
How do you actually refute that line of thinking though? The male/female sports split is just as arbitrary as a proposed female/trans-female split.
Who would have thought that the smartest thing Destiny could have done this whole time was to just continue playing League?
I started playing football in 4th grade and powerlifting in 6th grade, and participated in both until my junior year. I herniated 2 discs and had to quit both sports. I retained most of my strength and muscle mass into my mid 20's. If I transitioned my senior year I would bet I would still dominate women sports even with a back injury because of said muscle retention.
The most interesting thing that all these debates bring up highlight and put a giant spotlight on massive is difference physically between men and women. We are now getting the amount of the data that everybody knew about scientifically put into the public space to shut down the ridiculous argument of men and women being similar physically
I generally agree but I think height is the worst argument to use due to the fact that there are different height variations on average when it comes to race and other factors.
That's true. black people should be allowed to compete in the whites only sports league
This is literally why I left the democrat party and no longer consider myself left. Issues like this. The crazy people with their brain dead attacks pushed me to the middle. I'm just an independent now.
They aren’t democrats lmao. They’re far lefties
@@NothingElseMattersJM Yeah there's this diseased opinion that these people are affiliated with the democrat party, when most of them *hate* the democrat party more than they hate trump. Seriously if some breadtuber read this comment about "well now I'm unaffiliated and disillusioned with all political parties" they'd fucking celebrate it.
@@NothingElseMattersJM it's hard to differentiate these days from leftists and moderates when the leftists purge you from their spaces. Can we name any members of the democrat party who either support protecting cis women sports or want to ban surgeries on minors? Just touching this issue makes you a "hateful bigot", if you don't instantly agree with the most radical fringe.
I know there are tons of moderates. I just hate the group think from the parties these days. The GOP caters to their extremists. The Dems do as well. I'll think for myself :)
Thank you for speaking up about this. 💜
9:02 I can absolutely see some insane person in a few years saying "Just because they have bigger muscles and have a higher lifting PR doesn't mean they will win the lifting competition"
This is exactly like the rittenhouse stuff destiny calls something that was and will become true and when it comes true all these fuckers trying to cancel him will silently crawl away and act like they didn’t do anything wrong
No, they will do worse and act like that was their opinion at the time and it was an uncontroversial opinion
Destiny already mentioned that. No one cares that he was pretty spot on with Rittenhouse and that the majority of lefty takes (and I'm a lefty) were completely garbage and ignorant till the end. They just go on with their next horrible take while Destiny gets banned for a completely reasonable argument about transwomen in women sports.
There was no vindication for Destiny in regards to Rittenhouse and there will certainly be none for this topic.
Hasan never ceases to amaze. How can a man so irrational, incurious and disingenuous be so successful as an "opinion leader"? Answer: his (considerable) audience is weaker in character and ability than he is.
Hasan is a constant blackpill on humain intelligence, although it must be kept in mind that it’s very easy to sway apolitical people to your side even with the dumbest takes, as without counterpoints man tends to easily accept things as logical.
This is why ideologues spend a huge amount of time discouraging their followers from listening to the opposing points.
they’re also all children so there’s that
Cult leaders are charismatic
@@djbillybool8173 are they literally children? Or are they dumb 20 somethings? This is a sincere question, I honestly don't know
Like minds attract like minds. Hasan is an absolute idiot. You do the math.
I think majority of the trans community college would agree that it's unfair
Doesn't matter, most of them, many of whom are older transwomen in their 40s, don't speak out out of fear of being isolated from their community. The consensus is determined by the loud minority that actually speaks out. Not the voices that choose to remain silent.
I appreciate August cutting of the video when Destiny starts playing league. It simulates the average viewers experience very well.
The solution is for t athletes to compete in the special olympics where surreal strength advantages are found hidden in plain sight without becoming an issue, shattered records are always celebrated, and everyone is a winner for participating 👍
In the future, there'll probably a separate division for trans-athletes to compete against other trans-athletes.
It depends on what you mean by pick them out. There are quite a few professional athletes who didn't start playing their sport until very late in development.
On the other hand athletic performance is something that is set genetically and can't really be fiddled with through training. So coaches can pick out players that are going to be excessively talented with just looking at the way a person moves with a few basic tests even if a person is out of shape genetic potential will usually shine through pretty well.
So when you're looking at transathletes that excel after transition, they probably would have excelled before transition as well.
Yo, what game is he playing in the intro?
Vampire survivor
Does the twitch ban mean Destiny can't participate in other Twitch streamers' debate panels?
Pretty much yeah
Gonna miss you on panels my man, hope you can appeal this shit
Nobody's gonna watch these panels anymore lol who watches 10 randoms talk stupid shit over each other. The only reason people watch is to see Destiny's takes getting confronted.
The only reason these panels existed was because of destiny. Without him it’s just a bunch of nobodies with all shit takes
@@Bai_Su_Zhen very true. I don’t watch them unless he’s on either.
@@itstaeday They became famous because of him and they stab him
The goalpost shifting is like creationists demanding to see the **next** missing link after the last one, like in that Futurama episode.
Or maybe I'm entirely thinking of that Futurama episode?
Hey Destiny, if I want to have a public discussion with you about trans issues, how can I do it?
I think this is the dawn of the end of online left.
Supporting gender affirming care for prepubescent children was the first social issue that I didn't intuitively align with the left on. It struck me as a degree of agency we dont generally afford to children in matters of such consequence.
I wanted to seek out compelling arguments that might convince me.
I found Vaush first. I was turned off because I found his pretentiousness to outweigh the tenacity of his argument. And then I found Destiny. So I find it a little ironic that Destiny is lambasted as transphobic when his content has allowed me to be more educated/sympathetic to trans issues and the only reason I even know he exists is specifically because of his pro-trans stances. Feelsweirdman
Yep putting kids on hormone blockers and steroids is totally normal bro; what are we, fucking puritans? Btw anyone else struggle getting hard for anything older than 15?
As someone who was slightly leaning right, and then found Destiny after the Rittenhouse stuff, while I agree with most of the takes, a lot of the trans stuff I just can't find myself agreeing with. I'm not even happy about circumcising or giving piercings to children, let alone taking life-changing drugs that have irreversible effects. In my eyes, once you're old enough to make your own decisions in life, like moving out, getting married, smoking/drinking, then you can make similarly life-changing decisions about gender expression.
I know slippery slope is a bit of a meme, but "Listen to kids, they're smarter than you think" throws up massive massive massive red flags. There's another group of people who also would like to convince me that kids are mature and ready for "adult" experiences and I am never ever ever going to even remotely agree with those people. And saying we should listen to children for gender expression comes dangerously close to that. Add in how many people regret transition, even while being age of majority and of mostly sound mind, and the idea that listening to kids who don't even know basic shit about the world sounds way off-base. I say it as a joke, though some mean it seriously, should we also let kids choose their own names? Arguably gender expression is even more important than names, so why not, right? The obvious answer is no because they're dumb kids and half of them are going to call themselves after their favorite fortnite skin. We don't trust kids to even make their own dietary choices, because we know they'd make stupid decisions that are bad for them if they had free reign, I'm just applying that to gender expression.
I can fully understand why people might think otherwise, but I just disagree for so many reasons. And yeah, add in that people like Vaush or Demonmama are not only making such weird arguments, but being so cocky and smug and pretentious about them too. I already disagree with Demonmama about how smart kids are, let alone when she's basically implying I'm a moron for thinking otherwise.
@@iwannabethekid34xc Puberty blockers don't actually change anyone's gender, they simply delay puberty. That's not the end of the world and if the kid decides they want to stay with their assigned gender they can just stop taking puberty blockers.
@@wisemage0 Puberty fix about 80% of gender confused kids ..... let kids transition socially, change their name, play the pronoun game and dress however they like instead
@@Winasaurus It sounds like we had different starting positions politically speaking so Im not sure if youll find this as compelling as I did. But the argument that shifted my perspective, as I understood it, was that gender affirming care has limitations in efficacy post-puberty, which is believed to be why suicidality is sometimes maintained even after transitioning. Certain characteristics conferred by puberty can be difficult or impossible to reverse, such as a deepened voice, etc. Undergoing puberty also seems to be where many people draw the line for whether its appropriate to allow trans women into gendered sports. So it seems like many of the harmful societal pressures trans people face can be ameliorated if gender affirming care is provided prior to puberty, thus allowing for better health outcomes. Personally, that line of thinking made a lot of sense to me from a medical and harm reduction standpoint.
I've done several steroid cycles in my life. With each one, I'd say I keep about 10% of the added muscle after I cycle off. I would assume that a decade-long steroid cycle like male puberty would be even more pronounced.
One motto I like to live by is "Be the reason Discord moderators have to change the rules."
This latest season of MtF in female sports made me realize something that's been holding back the left. There's WAY too much capitulation at the start of a particular point (MtF in female sports has been an issue for years now) which ends up causing it to pick up enough support and develop enough nonsense points that it's difficult as fuck to push back against once it's starting to hurt the left as a whole.
I think I've seen most content creators (destiny included) at one point kind of wave off the idea that it was even an issue when it was proposed. The mantra was "whatever, it's hardly anyone right now, nbd" which almost ALWAYS turns out to become a MUCH larger issue down the line.
The left doesn't address problems as they arise. They address them just before the argument has gone septic throughout the entirety of the left, and once that time comes it requires people to fall on their swords to finally get the reality of the situation across.
The right seems to be better about this. Some stupid claim or narrative rears it's head and I'll see the majority of non-fringe creators snuff it out right away. It's made clear that that position won't fly, that to follow it is insane, and that it's something that will hurt in the end.
The left needs to get better at bullying their own sub demographics. The right catches wind of a major personality misstepping and will often jump ship before the left even takes notice. But the left will catch wind of the same thing, but suddenly instead of telling someone that they're a retard for hinging their entire argument regarding athleticism on height as the deciding factor, they just submit and tell them how brave they are to be standing up for their own.
Viva Inclusion and diversity just because
@@tomol6 t. Can't think beyond the screen.
@@tomol6 fucking right???
@@tomol6 what neo nazis? The left has been pushing everything as neo nazi, the leader of the proud boys is a mexican. 95% of the left don't even know that.
@@user-gc1wj8tt2p Nice idpol. Mexican people can be Nazi sympathizers.
It's frustrating because I'm a trans ally but I have a nuanced take on this argument. But when I try to converse online it's all ignorant, transphobic people who don't even know anything about how transition or hormones work, and they don't care about a good solution to this problem.
Either 'transphobic' people or full on woke,,,,do you have a good solution to this problem?
Destiny's right in a lot of what he's saying but the thing he, and especially the people who are for men and women to compete against each other are missing is that men's and woman's physiology is different, it's not just a hormone difference, you can't take a man, give them female hormones and have their physiology change into a females. There are small differences and huge differences, it's why some medication works differently, has different contraindications and potentially serious side effects between the sexes. Just because you add female hormones to a biological male, you don't suddenly have the hormone profile of a female, even with testosterone blockers it still plays a huge effect and when they talk about detectable levels of a hormone, men use testosterone twenty times more efficiently than females, there is a endocrine disease that affects males that requires supplemental testosterone to treat because they have inactive genes that create protein that use testosterone or something similar to that, it means they process it like women do and thus need a much higher available supply to have the same utilization as the average man. Besides this, for most trans people, they don't block testosterone because it causes problems with sexual function and especially depression, lack of motivation and drive, and greatly impairs your immune response. The debate isn't about you got an advantage early in life and did it wear off yet, the advantage is that you're a male competing with females. Frankly, as far as medicine has come, we only have trivial barely functional transition medicine, essentailly they try to 'correct' your homones and send you on your way, SRS or chemical castrastion is an option but only used rarely. The debate is too lost in the medical utopia that a male can become a female and whether there are any lingering advantages when the objective reality is that it is males, with their physiogical advantages competing with females regardless of how long they've been transitioned or what level of testosterone is detected in their blood. The stupid thing, and something Destiny is right about, is that people are so concerned with virtue signalling that they argue for their side no matter how crazy the position is, it's this way with a lot of subjects but in this subject it's more obviously absurd, if males who transitioned didn't have huge advantages than how can you tell that they're biologically male from 100 yards away in half a second? Assuming, arguendo, that it was fair then why do these proven average athletes when they were male turn into literally the best ever competitor in their sport against women, that's the second most obvious answer only because the first most obvious answer is every single human's lived experience.
@@bencheevers6693 should cis women who have a more masculine frame not be allowed to compete against more petite women since they have an unfair advantage?
@@flowerchild8450 No, they are both biological women and that's the category. You're essentially arguing that there shouldn't be sports because not every athlete is the exact same. It's a straightforward argument, do men and women compete against each other? No. So biological men shouldn't compete against women, it's frankly simple and the subterfuge is in the proposition that transitioned men are equivalent to women where the competition would be fair but that's laughable on it's face and completely objectively wrong and disproven.
@@bencheevers6693 how is it “objectively wrong and disproven”?
Look at the skeletal differences in the the pelvic bones and hips specifically.
what game is Tiny playing?
Also muscle memory is a thing. Even if you “lose” all of your strength your muscle still remember lifting those weights/being at that strength level.
For example, if I could lift 200lbs then stopped working out for years without exercise I may not be able to lift 200lbs at first but my muscles will be able to reach that weight wayyyyyyy quicker compared to anybody just starting out with the bar itself.
It's not even something as vague as muscle memory, muscles have a capability for work that is built up slowly over a person's life. Even if you can't build it up anymore (injury or break) your muscles get weaker, but the capability is still there, so your can get back to your previous level very quickly. That's why NBA players can tear their ACL, get surgery, recover, and come back to the NBA at like 75% instead of starting over completely with atrophied muscles. Generally, by the second year after surgery is when ACL tears, specifically, get back to 100%, or close to it.
In terms of MtF trans athletes that means that for the most important training years of their lives they're essentially taking extremely potent performance enhancing drugs that have very few bad side effects compared to ones available for cis-women, and even though HRT degrades their physicality a bit, if they maintain at least some of their workout regimen they can basically maintain 90% of their prior physique, and that's still unobtainable for 97% of cis-women.
@@DaveChappeleIsGod you just explained muscle memory💀
@@dbz287 huh, never heard muscle memory used that way. I always just associated it with strictly movement, like how NBA players have shot like 100,000 shots so they can gradually speed up their release while maintaining about the same amount of touch. Or how if you don't start early enough in tennis you just never quite have the same touch with a racquet as somebody who starts playing when they're like 5. No need to be a dick about being right, though.
I feel like the title’s not clickbaity enough; how about “The Debate That Got Me Permabanned From Twitch”?
If some top 10 male UFC fighter decided to become trans and started knocking the fuck out of women, surely that should change peoples minds quickly. It's not a 'trans rights discussion', it's a competition fairness discussion.
Where is this happening, sir?
@@flowerchild8450 Well the point is that It can happen, if people are saying it should be allowed. Fallon Fox was a MtF mma fighter. Female MMA professional fighters pretty much across the board do not like the idea of having to fight a MtF opponent, because they'd consider it a bit unfair. Imagine telling them 'no, you have to, because they are women too! if you get brutally KO'd it's your fault and you are transphobic!'
Here's a finish if you are interested: th-cam.com/video/4U4KGz72SEg/w-d-xo.html
What game is Destiny playing?
Twitch is dumb
Allowing people who were assigned male at birth to compete in women's sports is probably one of the more compelling arguments in favour of Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminism.
It is unprincipled to push for a world where women are put at a disadvantage in women's sports: because they were born female.
That's why it's important to argue against this, you can accept a person's gender identity without engaging in apologia for cheaters.
Can we drop the assigned at birth nonsense? Its appropriation of intersex struggles and only applicable in extremely rare DSD cases.
@@jsgdk intersex conditions are also sex specific. Meaning there's male intersex conditions and female intersex conditions. They are not between sexes or a third sex. Male and female are not two points on a spectrum, but two independent categories that have their own respective spectrums.
"Allowing people who were assigned male at birth to ...."
"It is unprincipled to push for a world where women are put at a disadvantage in women's sports: because they were born female."
Men are assigned male at birth but women are born female? lol.....this is what happens when you play along with that gender ideology. You know as well as we know its bullshit. Born male or female thats it.
@@jammadan I don't understand what you are saying. There is indeed a different in sex when you are born. Are you saying there isn't?
@@swordyshield No, I'm just pointing out the inconsistency in the OP's post
He/she uses assigned male at birth for men, but for women, they are born females.
Of course humans are either born male or females, nothing was assigned.
Destiny, what are your thoughts on the recent Alabama trans legislation?
all the best 👌🏾
On the one hand, that true that anti-trans would increase.
On the other hand, the critical mass in institutions or traditional power: critical mass could never happen because the left got all the schools and told young people this is fine. The old people dying, too busy or demoralized or divided: it is essentially over to gain back institution.
Whatever the young go to the other side are little. Those same few are disgusted by the Republicans and are called political homeless with no camp. Typically, the third party has no power to change.
Thus, no critical mass to gain power from govts for a long, long time, no politician with enough willpower to oppose, and Big Tech continuing to implement harsh moderation/censorship.
So, the only promising battle is on the votes by "silent people." And, that is growing because everyone who disagrees gets labeled as a nazi and right-winger. And there, power is not essential to gain influence and movement. But it is basically tribalism. It is what it is.
It's going to be the 2016 election all over again.
Isn't the female skeletal structure the thing that grants transgender men an advantage in power walking? Because in power walking you use your hips a lot, and a female skeletal structure has different/wider hips. At least, that's what I would presume, without actually looking it up.
But oh well, who knows. Not like I really care one way or another. If women don't want to play sports anymore and want to let the fringes of the transgender community walk all over them, that's all up to them. I'm not going to fight this battle for them. I honestly just don't care enough.
The racewalking 20km race WR is 1:16 for men and 1:23 for women. For the 2021 Olympics, as a man, you had to get at least a time of 1:21 to qualify. So to qualify as a men you had to beat the women's world record by a considerable margin.
can someone explain to me why controlling for height is ridiculous in reference to tran-sport. So like what if we did a study where we controlled for height and we also have a height cap in sport for transwomen. If a study came out that proves hrt can make it fair if height is controlled for. Would that not solve the issue. Obviously im speaking super hypothetical. But does the logic follow?
obviously height is important now, cos there's no such height cap in sport for trans-people.
As someone who took steroids in college and then had to drop it all at once with bad pct due to extreme life circumstances, trust me the muscle does "literally just disappear". There is some research that shows some of the muscle cells proliferate and don't go away for a long time (the same way fat cells shrink but don't go away) but the competitive advantage of these cells in a dormant state isn't really researched. They're mostly useful in a "muscle memory" capacity. This is how people like Kevin levrone would blow up into a competition
7:59 I don’t understand, I’ve seen a lot of left leaning people talk about eliminating women’s spaces, but I haven’t heard right leaning people talk about not wanting trans people to exist or have rights. I’m sure there are some crazy far right people but average conservatives believe you can do what ever you want just stop trying to dominate womens sports or use womens locker rooms or change the definition of woman. The conservative opinion is do what you want to do just stop trying to force you believes in us.
They also are attempting to redefine homosexuality (a sex-specific attraction) to include gender identities (which are not sex-specific). Saying no is bigotry now and having innate attractions to male parts is "biological essentialism" to these people. They also have a lack of safeguards for identifying whether a patient is actually "dysphoric" or may be expressing latent homosexuality, autism, gender nonconformity etc., is all now potential forms of dysphoria.
The solutions? Discussions, therapy, Nope! You must accept gender identity and have your bodies medicalised, given sterilising hormones as a minor. This movement feels eerily similar to the 1900's eugenics policies for removing "abnormal" or "people who stain the nation". They push for the subjugation of women and gays while marketing themselves as the righteous heroes fighting for those very minority rights and "inclusivity". Completely delusional crowd.
The other problem with Trans Rites (purposefully spelling), is that it now supersedes parental rights in Canada and the US, the government now has more power over you and your therapist over what's best for your child. I don't recall them ever consulting and acquiring consent from every parent first and yet they passed policies that gives them this power anyway.
A normal testosterone level for a man is about 300 nanograms per deciliter (ng/dL). For a woman, it's 25 to 70 ng/dL.
The NCAA since last I checked, requires trans women to not exceed a maximum of 288 ng/dL.
Literally can have 5x the test levels of average women and compete with them. If I’m wrong feel free to fact check me.
Saying that HRT makes everything a level playing ground is ridiculous, Laurel Hubbard’s clean & jerk after HRT for a year dropped like 12 kg.
Normal trt level is not 300 lol it's over 600
Is that 12kg drop compatible with women's level? I don't follow weightlifting so I wouldn't know
288 is about what I had before I lost weight and started lifting again lolwtf, to be fair I am almost double that now.
@@elizadoggy I mean true it can vary, from the ages of 19 and up the range is 265-923 ng/dL generally
That's the funny part of this, the organizations. Either the organization isn't blindly pushing pro-trans, like when they forced caster semenya to take a test because of suspiciously good performance and it turned out she was intersex and had a massive advantage (which is seen as a bad thing by them), or the organization is blindly on their side, like the NCAA allowing people with massive blatant advantages to compete, and then that's seen as a good thing.
6'4 transwoman with absurd strength and speed compared to women being allowed to compete: "Listen to the orgs! If they say it's ok, you can't complain!"
Intersex woman who routinely smashed women's times with a massive advantage is forced to take a typical doping test: "DON'T LISTEN TO THE TRANSPHOBIC ORGS, SHE SHOULDN'T EVEN HAVE HAD TO TAKE THE TEST"
What game is this btw
What game is this?
I don't think anyone really cares about trans athletes in amateur sports. Let anyone play on any team they want. But when it comes to Olympic level athletes or maybe even starting at college level, women have a protected league for a reason. I don't think that's an anti trans take at all.
Not blindly letting trans people do anything anywhere is seen as an anti-trans take by a shocking number of people.
I remember people calling me anti-trans for saying that a guy who was a serial rapist and conveniently transitioned just before sentencing shouldn't be sent to a female prison.
Where they then went on to rape female inmates.
Yea it's seems good to let trans young people enjoy sports, but sadly might need to put a glass ceiling in place until we know they have a body that is fair to other women. It might need to be done on a case by case basis, idk.
@@Winasaurus that's why we have judges. Hopefully they'll catch liars once the dogma around this issue cools off.
@@willjapheth23789 "Yea it's seems good to let trans young people enjoy sports, but sadly might need to put a glass ceiling in place until we know they have a body that is fair to other women. It might need to be done on a case by case basis, idk."
We know that already, in fact we knew it for a long time, its only a certain segment that like to faint ignorance when it comes to this issue
@@willjapheth23789 " that's why we have judges. Hopefully they'll catch liars once the dogma around this issue cools off."
Judges need to follow the law, they are bounded by policy....its the woke politician that cause this messed in the first place
I stop by this channel every once in a while to see how far things have gone in the debate on the left. This is a bridge way too far for me. there is no way in my reality that this can be normalized.
I stop by at Tim Pool to see how far he’s moved to the Trumpist wing of slewed beliefs, and he’s too far gone to come back to reality.
I do the same for vooosh, just to see how much more insane he becomes
@@jammadan Or Tim Pool to see how he’s become a fool.
@@aln5832 Tim is a grifter, but to be fair, so are many youtubers, left or right
@@jammadan I’ll agree with you on this one.
what game is he playing can someone please tell me?
Vampire survivor
To back up your point on pubity, not being able to recover is incorrect women tend to recover easier but can't put out the same output which actually requires more recovery in men . However satellite cell recruitment is permanent this is studied in steroid studies showing the advantage never really goes away . Then you can argue limb or joint sizes . Fat joints help with lifting as less prone to injury if output is lower
I consider myself to be right wing / conservative and not a destiny fan at all, yet in these times he is becoming the voice of reason.
PFF HAHAHAHHAA
Vaccine mandates get fired for not taking it etc
But he believes men are men what a based take guys!
@@deeznutz8320 destiny is pro mandatory vax?
South Park did it best.
What a crazy time to be alive
Fun fact, Dennis Rodman started playing basketball at age 21 years old and is considered one of the best rebounders in basketball. On MJ's team during three of his wins. Inducted in to the hall of fame.