Pipelines were for the American people. Buffett donated millions to Biden’s campaign to ensure he would shut down the pipeline, leading to Buffett’s railway being the only way to transport the oil. Gas is more expensive for everyone but Buffett makes millions a day off of that railroad. Biden got is slice and that’s all he wanted, now we get to suffer. Biden’s back door dealings in Ukraine have led to this current situation we are in as well as, you guessed it, increased gas requirements that have to run through buffets railroad.
Wait. What destiny defines as oligarchy in the beginning is the description of U.S. behaviour. Look at how many of our members of government switch in and out of these giant corporate positions. Generals that give contracts to big military suppliers retire from govt to Lockheed Martin or other contractor positions. Same with Biden appointing Google and FB executives to cabinet positions. Can you please ask Destiny why this isn't the case of you see this august? I can find you names and specifics if he needs them. He literally made the case for why the U.S is an oligarchy. I have to think he is just lying on behalf of the United States to try to make it not look as bad as it currently looks to the world.
"Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens" Study published in 2015. Uses data to prove that a small group of big dollar donors gets what they want against the majority. Destiny said he would need to see data on how the rich have outsized control of our process to see if we indeed have an oligarchy. There ya go.
This conversation is predicated on a misunderstanding of a oligarchy. The question is whether an oligarchy can occur in a democracy. An oligarchy doesn't need to have 100% of the power in a society it just needs some power(meaning ability to control). For example Renaissance Rome had power concentrated in the church and in merchants/bankers. Thus an oligarchy can some times not get there way. Oligarchy in a democracy is the expression of corporations or upper classes influencing cultural opinion through media, and advertising funding. These super pacts that are funded by corps don't need to push and fund interest for a politician on their side. Rather they just need to push against politicians/orgs opposing their interests and stoke public decent against them disproportionately to their members with their wealth. Thus, oligarchy, a concentration of power(power to control public) in the hands of a few individuals /families without necessarily having 100% control of the public. They don't always have to get their way. It really makes sense that the lower classes might have the same opinions of the upper class if the upper class is influencing the opinion of the lower class through media.
"I don't know anything, I can't explain anything, I have no examples of anything, I can't keep track of anything, I can't argue for or against anything and I have no history of anything. However, I have many strong claims that I will not be swayed on. Let me check my tabs"
i hate when people do this. They make a strong statement about something (in this case economics), then you ask them to explain it and they say "well im not an economist so i dont know". If you cant explain your points, dont make them.
And they continue to double down, completely oblivious to the fact that they sound like a total moron. "Well .. I think I've clearly shown some examples of how there are oligarchies in certain industries" - while literally not providing a single one and just talking about a general vibe they get or something
This also conveys another phenomena in how people “learn” about things in the digital age. Rather than absorbing material to the point of comprehension, it’s good enough knowing _where_ to look up the material and how it superficially aligns with *their correct opinion* on any given topic
...but if you cant prove to me why I'm wrong, I must be right! Checkmate neolib! Some people are trying to understand how reality works. And some people are trying to justify the utopian delusion they think people who think like them would bring about if given enough power.
Statements are just opinions, and there are a LOT of uninformed people. The problem isn't them stating their opinion OR being uninformed, the problem is not being willing to LEARN about the topic after forming an opinion.
I understand why they did it though. At that point they were saying stuff like "I tried", I"I hope you find somebody who can", " I already explained this and you're not listening", which meant that they'd changed their tactics to "Holy shit I'm getting wrecked, let me try to bail out of here with *some* dignity and pretend I won for a rhetorical victory".
the funniest part is when she litterally sais im so bad with history and cant give a single example and then in the same breath goes "maybe look it up". like how un selfaware can a person be
This person was far too smug at the end of the conversation for someone who spent an hour making leftists look stupid without Destiny even needing to contribute.
It's a dumb time to talk about "money buying elections" after 6 years straight of lobbying upsets including the highest profile blowout in presidential history. The deviation of US voting patterns from corporate interests somehow in perfect tandem with more money being injected into politics than any time in US history is remarkable.
The second Destiny established that just because there's economic inequality doesn't mean there's an oligarchy and the other person kept on going anyway was the moment
This conversation summarised essentially went like: "I don't know these definitions off heart, I'm not an expert and I can't give you any direct examples but I know this is true and you should definitely look into this."
That's emotional reasoning for ya. It's why teaching critical thinking skills and learning self-awareness is so important and should get way more focus in public education. These views FEEL good to them, and our brains are VERY good at protecting us from things that don't feel good. Being wrong, especially on a topic you feel strongly about, doesn't feel good. It's why Destiny is adept at having his opinions change on subjects, he has no emotional or egotistical attachment to his opinions on any subject.
I will add.... sorry to say, as this is totally judgmental and ad-hom... but why do these lefties *sound* exactly like what you'd expect in these conversations/ideologies? Do you know what I mean? This guy has ZERO testosterone, and sounds like your typical woke weirdo. And yet, these people think they have the guts, wisdom, experience, and moral supremacy to rule all of us... Ah yes, I'd love a nation with a million of THESE people at the helm. What a utopian paradise (facepalm). Sorry dude... just go be a gamer/coder in your basement... leave social rules, politics, and the heavy decisions up to those who move this country and world forward.
It's frustrating when someone who's just outright wrong can't just take the L. It's okay, we've all been wrong at some point. No one cares in the long run and on these platforms you can show you've grown in public.
@@roarbertbearatheon8565 Why would you need to be sweaty just to looking something up? Also I find it funny how both of you just use the "look it up" argument, tells you everything you need to know.
@@lawsonharrison6927 : What about in those cases where there is an objectively true fact, yet people still hold opposing views. A good example of this was Kyle Rittenhouse who was proven to be acting in self defense. Despite this and the jury decision people online would continue calling him a “murderer.” Wouldn’t that be an objectively wrong take? Am I playing “team sports” by accepting the truth and case findings? Another good example of what I am saying is the Russia vs Ukraine conflict. The objective truth there is Russia invaded Ukraine under zero merit and for personal gain. The contrarians will say silly stuff like “what about the Nazi’s” or “let’s listen to Putin’s demands and make a deal.” Am I playing team sports by explaining to folks why these takes are hogwash?
@@KilimnikGenya knowing facts and being able to use those facts to come to a conclusion others have come to isnt "team sports politics", it's when people just repeat talking points when you dont understand anything about the underlying issues or how the talking point even came to be
@@luvmusl2163 it relies on intellectual thought leaders to dictate what isn't and what is in the greater populations' interest, such as socialists who think everyone's socialist and they don't know it yet, or reactionaries who think everyone has the same common sense and we're all just sheep when we suppress that to listen to corporations in a competitive market (which are also beholden to a significant number of regulations you can thoroughly learn and/or invoke to reform company conduct via tangible means) populism on the other hand is just entertaining as many perspectives as possible to find one that's most durable to falsification. A lot more humbling a process than typical petitions to universal "truth".
@@Josefsson9013 it's the difference between monopoly and monarchy Hierarchical différence I'd guess, same thing Looking at the building of the words btw not sure
State of limited competition. Where a market is shared by a limited number of people. CPU is a good example you have intel and amd. Sure CPU generic 1 might start up but the bar to entry is so high becuase the other two have such a strangle hold on the production of the tech your Ethier going to sell a version of their stuff or nothing at all.
For the record, the first gilded era was not bad because it was getting extremely oligarchical, it’s because there were huge monopolies that created wealth disparity. When economists say this is the second gilded era, it’s because of the wealth disparity, huge swaths of capital that are owned by a small group of people, and the pseudo-monopolization of certain industries
It’s hilarious that they brought this up to try and say the US was at some point an oligarchy, because the point of trust busting was the government being directly combative and breaking up massively wealthy monopolies, AKA the opposite of an oligarchy.
I think you can pretty well argue that, in many cases, the tendency for wealth to accrue at the top in capitalism is, when it becomes severe enough, a de facto oligarchy. The argument that we don't have a severely disproportionate amount of business leaders in government is just flat out wrong. Our vice president was the CEO of a war profiteering company that pressured us into multiple wars, along with the oil millionaire president who invaded oil rich nations. Practically eery presidency throws the secretary of Treasury to a banking leader. We're not a pure oligarchy, to be fair. But we're de facto a partial oligarchy, which is pretty undeniable. I think one thing to keep in mind is that our oligarchs have realized that it is easier to hold control when they leave a significant portion of government in control of the common man. And they also benefit from the people having a significant portion of the wealth, because consumers spend money on the products they sell. I don't think we live in an anti democratic plutocracy or pure oligarchy, but there are a ton of decisions made in our government purely to benefit corporate interests and the wealthy. Even if that's just a bi product of monied interests controlling the narrative of politics through media, and their limited but significant control over politics through lobbying and the rubbing of elbows between corporate heads and politicians. I absolutely agree that corporate lobbying isn't 100% direct control of our democracy, but Destiny is massively understating how much control they definitely have.
Man this "debate" was funny as hell! 💀 it seems like they just took an amalgamation of lefty talking points and they just spewed them out at random when they had nothing else better to say. 😅
41:37 Destiny: "If you're lobbying then by definition you don't have control.." Caller: "Yes you do!" Ok well I guess the US Association of Reptile Keepers (has a real lobbying group) are our overlords 🤣
@@charleynewman5057 it’s attempted influence, but whether or not it lines up with the base of constituents preferred policies is the difference between democracy and oligarchy
The fact that Destiny can sit through this level of prideful incompetency regularly without getting outwardly hostile every time makes him worthy of sainthood I swear, now if only that onmi-liberal guy on Twitter could do that same
Are there any lefties aside from Destiny and Econoboi (perhaps also Rose Wrist?) who have a basic understanding of economics? This must be how Dylan Burns feels when he hears the 10 IQ foreign policy takes from 95 percent of twitch.
The problem is if you’re a radical, most of your opinion is formed by ideology. They don’t really care about economic experts say. They just have this core populist foundational belief that of course we live in a oligarchy otherwise we would have had these popular A,B,C policies enacted.
Why are you acting like this is an uniquely "left-wing" problem? People of all political persuasions have issues with being too confident in their understanding of certain topics including economics.
Imagine hearing a detailed breakdown from destiny about the fall of Cuba with specifics. Imagine refuting it with just "cia did it hurt" Imagine ending with "I think you really need to learn history Destiny" Imagine doing this while constantly needing to look up the definition of buzzwords you use after being corrected on them. Imagine doing all of this while admitting you don't know history.
As a Venezuelan (not brown, sorry), I find it incredibly insulting that this person is suggesting I'm indoctrinated/brain washed for thinking socialism destroyed my country. Destiny's take on why Venezuela's economy went down the shitter is fairly good :)
@@TheMrTangamandapio I’m so sorry that Carl Marx showed his ass in your country. I’d sponsor your move to America or wherever you plan on running to if I wasn’t poor af😂
That 2 minute sequence when it was revealed the leftie didn’t know: 1. Super pacs can’t donate to campaigns 2. “How do you know it’s not happening though?” 3. Politicians actually DO HAVE TO disclose their donors 4. Donations are public record 5. “What’s Ballotpedia?” I felt weak in the stomach from that
@@_12346. Destiny wasn't talking to Linus, this was someone who saw their interaction on Twitter and wanted to defend Linus' position (that USA is an oligarchy).
In a different conversation they'd be arguing that oil subsidies prove that the US government is corrupt. Meanwhile here they're giving the justification for some voters wanting oil subsidies 💀.
It does have to do with economics to a degree, at least from the lens of analyzing the effects on the economy and the telltale indicators of oligarchy such as state officials also being majority capital owners, but this caller was r worded
I get the impression that part of destiny's frustration with the nonsense of these arguments is that he used to believe this kind of stuff like I did and I feel the same way
This kind of urban legend is a bigger detriment to the left's goals than any number of right wing arguments. It's literally trapping people in an imaginary prison.
@@therealbaylee I actually just watched that one recently. Could you explain to me how Destiny lost that one? The other dude barely even knew what citizens United was or did. Or am I thinking of a different citizens United debate?
I think a lot of people watching this need to recognize theres a difference between corruption of politicians in a democracy. An oligarchy is a form of government. If the United states was an oligarchy, it wouldn't be a democracy at all. Steven is not arguing that we shouldn't get rid of corruption nor is he saying it's okay for companies to "buy up all the land" or take under the table donations.
yeah but the thing with illiberalism in say Brazil or Russia is that some form of democracy still remains on the lower levels but as you get closer to the top power becomes more and more cemented. So you can argue that USA is kind of an Oligarchy with power being cemented in these IVY league families (Bush's Clinton's Romny's etc) but Joe Biden kind of breaks that.
An oligarchy can have elements of a democracy whether for appearance or function, however a true democracy can't have elements of an oligarchy. It doesn't matter how much money a company donates whether it's under the table or legitimately real people are the ones that vote, companies don't get a vote. The media has more sway over people and their voting direction than how much money a company donated to which ever politicia, we saw this in the recent presidential election on both sides. Also just because a politican accepts money from a company it doesn't mean that they have to do what is requested of them by the company, they can still refuse! An oligarchy is completely different there is no refusal it just happens.
''i don't know how to look things up but why don't you just look it up cause you're wrong and i'm right. Oh you looked it up? Well it's not what i agree with so it's wrong. And ANY money being able to influence ANYTHING political means oligarchy'' The entire debate summarised for anyone who can't watch an hour long video
Over-confident idiots all sound the same after they reach a certain smug level. It’s even funnier when you can tell they don’t know shit in the first ten minutes.
She's transitioning; trans women who start transitioning after puberty already have a thicker larynx and hormones don't make that go away. I think the main way to make their voices more feminine is surgery and that's obviously costly.
@@matronedea I’m not talking about the person’s gender, I have 0 problems with that. It’s more of a smug accent that a lot of upper class west coast leftists have. It’s a really annoying accent.
I don't know anything about history, but I know for a fact that the CIA influenced the government of Venezuela. I watched a bunch of documentaries about it bro. Do some research jesus
"IM NOT AN EXPERT BUT I CAN DEFINITELY TELL YOU THAT THIS IS A FACT. LOOK IT UP." Is literally the same excuse that flat earthers and other conspiracy theorists use all the time.
This person was basically a conspiracy theorist that just read the headlines. How can you have such strong positions with not even hot air to support them. It's like screaming into a valley and having the echo be your confirmation of the veracity of your claims.
51:21 Cuba does import cars from japan, germany, china, russia. The problem is, the wages are so low, that not many people can buy these cars. So whilst you won't see them often on the road, they still exist for the very few who can afford them. The only stipulation is that none of the parts within the car are US made.
Relative to worldwide, Cuba has a pretty high GDP per capita since the early 2000s, it's just centralized in Havana and large chunks are held by important people in the PCC. Cuba is transitioning from a model of absolute disparity to one more like China, with a band of new nobility that cycle power around the Party but change up who holds it often enough to make it appear competitive. Leftists tend to imagine that the US is blockading Cuba and has choked out all foreign investment, much like how myths pervade around Venezuela. This position is best explained by total ignorance or a college education.
Obviously he will, because he lived through an oppresive regime under these ideas. That does not mean there are no good ideas to be found under these ideologies
The vast majority of citizens of former USSR countries hate communism and socialism. Almost half a century of harsh communism has destroyed the economy, infrastracture and technological progress of all the eastern european countries which still are nowhere near western Europe in terms of gdp per capita and overall living quality.
Oligarchs were former communist party members that were hand picked and given ownership of the former USSR's means of production. With the swipe of a pen former Russian presidents and especially Putin handed Hugh swaths of formerly govt owned industries.
Close, but not fully true. Firstly, almost everyone was a member of the party, you had to be. Secondly, Privatisation was over before Putin got into power, it was highly upoplular and would not dare to continue it, also there was not much left to give out. Putin's modus operandi is government contracts and laws tailored for his friends, not giving them state owned property. Also, I did try hard, but could not find evidence of them being hand picked. They seem to have started as independent power grabs and only once they became big enough, they got more handouts from the government.
Guess what? The workers never owned the means of production during the USSR, because communism is and will always be a scam that results in a dicatorship/oligharcy where all people are ruled by a few select people
@@scotty212 You day that sarcastically but I feel like this wasnt properly adressed during the debate and its a much clearer and obvious point than the little details Destiny lets the debate revolve around. It would have been helpful to tell that person that even if the government does something for companies, thats still VERY different from the head of Colt being defense minister and Rockefeller having been Minister of Energy. Its such a clear distinction.
I dont think its an oligarchy or anything, but I find it odd how dis-proportioned the influence of politics between a rich and poor person is in america. No rich people dont control the country, but their opinion clearly 'weighs' more than the average joe. Now ofcourse there are more average joes but still, its just very distopian to me
@@ri3121 But this is also true for every famous person. If somebody like Joe Rogan or Hasan Piker says to their fans "vote this candidate", then their opinion weighs thousands of times more than the average joe. That's the price of the freedom of expression.
@@MrNikoback Well yes, but the difference is, is that those people are influencing people to vote a certain way. This doesnt negate the free will of the people themselves. With lobbying you are exerting influence outside of voters themselves, essentially trying to bypass what voters want, to get what you want.
I feel like Destiny needed to hammer in on this "Dark Money" concept a lot more. He did it a little, but he needed to directly state "Look, you're using this term 'Dark Money' to with 0 justification or proof smuggle in "politicians receive unlimited amounts of money, just trust me, that makes all my statements justified by default", and before you gesture vaguely in the direction of Dark Money to make your argument for you, you *really* need to give proof of this".
The major disagreements were that 1. Caller asserted oligarchy = influence whereas Destiny says they require actual control 2. Caller claims dark money is anything spent for the representative/senator whereas Destiny makes a distinction between that and money going directly to them.
“I’m bad with lists. Let me check my tabs. It’s just my ADHD. I didn’t have time to prepare. Let me go back to my list. I am bad with giving definitions off the top of my head.”
The ending segment has me unironically thinking this person is a troll. Like how can you claim something so brazenly that directly has to do with history, and then say that you're super bad with history but simultaneously attempt to assure thousands of people that your historical claim is true.
Destiny: Why aren't there a whole bunch of people competing with Intel and AMD? Commie: It doesn't have to apply to every private sector. Destiny: Then how do you determine which private sector does it apply to? Commie: I'm not an economist. The way he determines it is when it's convenient for his oligarchy argument lmao.
For what it's worth, there aren't a bunch of people competing with Intel and AMD because it's illegal to do so due to restrictive patents. AMD and Via are only capable of competing because of an old agreement from the 80s/90s to produce x86 chips, without that it would just be Intel and the only competition would be from other architectures like ARM, and thanks to Microsoft that's been effectively non-competitive with the exception of Apple. Recently many of those x86 patents are starting to expire, but there are so many that have been made since the old patents that you can't really implement a full x86 design even now. At best, you can maybe make an 8080 and wow people with your 8-bit processor.
@@hehefunnysharkgoa9515 The fact that microsoft still dominates is because it is hard to get people to transition to Linux because of barriers to the average user.
Sane individual: "The sky is blue" This person: "Actually no, the sky is purple according to this one article I read that doesn't cite its sources" Sane individual: "Ok.........well, here's scientific evidence of the phenomena that makes the sky blue, and an explanation of why it occurs" This person: "No, you're just wrong the sky is purple" Sane individual: "Alright, what color is this sheet of paper?" This person: "Blue" Sane individual: "OK EXCELLENT, so what color is the sky?" This person: "Definitely purple" Sane individual: "But it's the same color as the paper I just showed you" This person: "Yeah well I'm actually not very good with colors so I could be wrong" Sane individual: "..........................You literally just said it was DEFINITELY purple, you said it with such authority even though now you're saying you're bad with colors." This person: "Yeah that's because it _is_ purple." This person: "Hey can I plug my twitter before I go?" Sane individual: "Sure, I don't see how that would invite chaos to your doorstep at all, especially after making yourself look like a fool as publicly as possible. Seems like a great idea, go for it."
15% of oil and gas workers are unionized. Most of them are the dangerous jobs. Not engineering ones. The engineers are incredibly well paid. I had friends who were making 200k a year by their 30's who were pipeline engineers.
bruh this person had no clue how to defend their oligarchy argument lol. Destiny, "why arent people competeting against intel and AMD for chips", response: "well theres not an oligarchy there but there still is" ..... okay buddy okay lmfao
Medicare should be an easy example. 65% support and yet insurance and pharma donations keep the legislation at bay. Even directly happened in Cali after the bill go shot down newsom received millions in donations.
I think it feels true if you've never held a position in a company higher than entry level employee. If you move up/buy stock/get equity in a company then you definitely care about the future of the business.
Destiny is wrong about the Cuban embargo. The way it works is that if you want to do business in Cuba, you are blocked from the US. So they are the primary reason why you can't find Japanese or German cars in Cuba, very few companies will choose the Cuban market over the American one for obvious reasons.
I’m really worried for our future… it used to be people, especially intellectuals, realized they weren’t educated on a subject and wouldn’t engage in conversations or arguments about it. Now that more people are college “educated”, they believe they are all knowing intellectuals and experts on anything they feel passionate about.
@@WilliamtheAlchemist Sweden is the most despotic country on the planet, they have a developed economy and 1 (one) aerospace company that produces jets at scale. The US is almost too competitive with how we do arms procurement, there are a lot of areas to improve, but they have to do with civilian apathy, not legitimate government capture. Businesses have the most sway in areas which the people give no fucks about, even if they are technically important. Leftists tend to overstate their hand by claiming businesses coordinate the most contentious topics in the US when in reality big D is more focused on local elections and making sure the city their offices are in doesn't fuck them over.
Holy shit this person just says "i cant remember" and then goes searching on google for answers every 10 seconds. Wtf is going on, wait "i just need to find my Roosevelt tab"
Corporate interest *can* align with the average citizen, but Destiny’s rhetoric is strongly implying that is *mostly* does. When his guest is arguing it mostly doesn’t. The number of rhetorical hairs being split in this convo is maddening.
I think destiny's point was that because things can align, you cannot just point to a single time a corporation got what it wanted, because the people could have wanted it too. The example of the power issues in Texas. Yes companies got what they wanted, but until shit hit the fan it seemed like the will of the people was behind it too. And now public view shifted... They are making changes. Destiny wanted a proper counter example in which the broad will of the voters was against it. I think there are counter examples, but usually in the lesser known areas. Think obscure internet copywrite law, not a big voter turnout caring about those issues. But all the big tech and media companies will be lobbying for their interests.
No, destiny said that they can align because the guy provided a single example as evidence, and in the case of literally a single example it could be the case that the corporate interests did align with the will of the people
"I don't know how you can be from Cuba and have done to you what America's done to you simply because you're a communist country, and think that capitalist countries are any better." Bro, tell me you’ve never spoken to a Cuban without telling me you’ve never spoken to a Cuban 🙄 I don’t agree with the politics of right-wing Cubans, but as a Cuban myself I at least understand where they are coming from and why, cause I’ve heard the stories of their struggles back on the island, and the struggle to escape and reunite families. So when I speak with them on politics I can handle that convo with empathy and compassion and am better able to frame my arguments in a way that makes sense for them. It also allows me to better understand the nature of their biases and gives me a foundation to work from. As long as leftist continue callously disregarding the trauma and context of others like this, we’ll never make progress. How can you hope to change someone’s mind when it’s clear you’re condescending and patronizing as hell cause you “don’t understand” how they believe what they believe. By no means do you have to be a Cuban to understand, but maybe just fucking talk to a few or read about their experiences before speaking on it saying you “don’t understand.” That’s not good enough.
The word Linus wants to argue is Plutocracy, where I still wouldn’t agree with him but he’d have a lot more room to argue. Perhaps even just wants to say corporate interests can have excessive monopsony power in many situations which I actually would tend to agree with. He obviously doesn’t really understand what an oligarchy is defined by, and probably shouldn’t be making strong statements like that without a better understanding of the terms he’s using. This is not to say there isn’t a myriad of issues closely associated with wealth disparity in the USA, which there certainly are.
I think are examples of oligarchocal things happening in the US this person just didn't know enough to argue it. The first example that came to my head was Intuit (the TurboTax guys) paying off politicians so that they don't go through with their plans of making a free and easy software to file your taxes. The IRS knows how much most people owe because of employers reporting the exact amounts if taxes theyre paying and so it doesn't need to be nearly as hard or expensive to file your taxes as it is rn. Intuit decided to pay off a bunch of politicians to not go through with making it and instead bargained that Intuit would make a free way to file taxes themselves. They technically do but they've intentional made it impossible to find on Google and it's barely ever free because they add on charges for basically everything.
Just to clarify something this other guy said, not all oil refineries in the US have unionized workers. I myself am a union employee at a BP refinery but There are other BP refineries that are completely non-union.
I can't believe the amount of people in the comments who actually think this is Linus from LinusTechTips. They plug their twitter at the end, did you guys even watch the video?
i am from venezuela, socialism sucks, it sucks so much. our people have become lazy and expecting of handouts, we wont even defend ourselves anymore, everything is corrupt and everything is mediocre, we are so fucked, the only reason people can live here is because of all the people who left and is sending money in, individuals, not goverment not even corporations are keeping the country afloat, individual people are.
I’m about halfway through, but there needs to be way more push back on “a lot of economists say _____.” Name more than one or two economists, or give me a credible poll.
I've been building a computer lately so a lot of Gamers Nexus and LTT content is in my feed. I did *not* expect Linus and Destiny to be in the same recommend, though.
This is just arguing over semantics. Big companies have lobbied so that certain terrible foods aren't banned like they are in other countries and the public is mostly unaware. Whether or not that makes it an "oligarch" doesn't matter. The American people are suffering because of it.
Oligarchy: a small group of people having control of a country, organization, or institution. The rich business owners in America do not control America.
They actually control America more than they do Russia. Putin has more personal power than Biden does. This is just low IQ liberal idealism, completely brainlet tier take on how power works. It’s western chauvinistic propaganda full stop. American billionaires and the powerful: fine entrepreneurs, businessmen, job creators. Russian billionaires and the powerful: evil oligarchs, the ‘regime’. It’s like that meme about “our brave warriors” vs their “savage barabarians” and it’s just these stick figures with swords that look the same.
depends on which type of business. If you're an owner in any type of business requiring collusion then any of the transaction made technically counts as a form of superior control over the institutional outcome.
@@kubes8388 you mean like two companies colluding and fixing prices? Yeah, that's illegal. Governments will give huge fines if that comes to light. That's like the opposite of the government acting on their behalf.
@@zarlei6048 having policies that are in line with corporate interests doesn’t mean corporations control America. If they had control, they wouldn’t have to spend billions on lobbying. This is just a confusion of terms. Maybe it’s just my liberal braindeadness kicking in, but I think there’s a meaningful difference between control and trying to convince those in control via lobbying.
Not that this person seems like a bad person or anything, they just don't seem very good at organizing they're thoughts and coherently making arguments. I know they said they have ADHD, and I can relate, but they don't seem like the best candidate to argue with about marriage.
I think Destiny is wrong on the Cuban sanctions. My understanding is that the United States doesn’t allow any companies that do business with the United States or are based in the United States to trade in Cuba.
Offshore oil workers aren't all unionized, traditionally it's actually uncommon. And either way, for very obvious reason, oil workers unions often massively support increases in drilling, fracking, pipelines, etc.
I disagree with Destiny on this. The idea that the U.S. has become oligarchical is not controversial or fringe. Wikipedia actually talks about this extensively.
"NO, NO, NO IT WASN'T LIKE THAT AT ALL!!" "Then what was it like?" "I DON'T KNOW, I'M BAD AT HISTORY. BUT I WATCHED A DOCUMENTARY. YOU'RE WRONG, LOOK IT UP!!" jesus christ what a shitshow
Ah, my favorite series "Destiny is way too charitable with people whose opinions were decided by a single tweet 5 years ago and have never been explored further"
Destiny argues with Linus on twitter and a lefty jumps into voice call to try and defend linus's position...
Take out the names and it's just another day in the life of the internet
Pipelines were for the American people. Buffett donated millions to Biden’s campaign to ensure he would shut down the pipeline, leading to Buffett’s railway being the only way to transport the oil.
Gas is more expensive for everyone but Buffett makes millions a day off of that railroad. Biden got is slice and that’s all he wanted, now we get to suffer.
Biden’s back door dealings in Ukraine have led to this current situation we are in as well as, you guessed it, increased gas requirements that have to run through buffets railroad.
Wait. What destiny defines as oligarchy in the beginning is the description of U.S. behaviour. Look at how many of our members of government switch in and out of these giant corporate positions. Generals that give contracts to big military suppliers retire from govt to Lockheed Martin or other contractor positions. Same with Biden appointing Google and FB executives to cabinet positions. Can you please ask Destiny why this isn't the case of you see this august? I can find you names and specifics if he needs them. He literally made the case for why the U.S is an oligarchy. I have to think he is just lying on behalf of the United States to try to make it not look as bad as it currently looks to the world.
"Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens"
Study published in 2015. Uses data to prove that a small group of big dollar donors gets what they want against the majority.
Destiny said he would need to see data on how the rich have outsized control of our process to see if we indeed have an oligarchy. There ya go.
This conversation is predicated on a misunderstanding of a oligarchy. The question is whether an oligarchy can occur in a democracy. An oligarchy doesn't need to have 100% of the power in a society it just needs some power(meaning ability to control). For example Renaissance Rome had power concentrated in the church and in merchants/bankers. Thus an oligarchy can some times not get there way. Oligarchy in a democracy is the expression of corporations or upper classes influencing cultural opinion through media, and advertising funding. These super pacts that are funded by corps don't need to push and fund interest for a politician on their side. Rather they just need to push against politicians/orgs opposing their interests and stoke public decent against them disproportionately to their members with their wealth. Thus, oligarchy, a concentration of power(power to control public) in the hands of a few individuals /families without necessarily having 100% control of the public. They don't always have to get their way. It really makes sense that the lower classes might have the same opinions of the upper class if the upper class is influencing the opinion of the lower class through media.
"I don't know anything, I can't explain anything, I have no examples of anything, I can't keep track of anything, I can't argue for or against anything and I have no history of anything. However, I have many strong claims that I will not be swayed on. Let me check my tabs"
i hate when people do this. They make a strong statement about something (in this case economics), then you ask them to explain it and they say "well im not an economist so i dont know". If you cant explain your points, dont make them.
And they continue to double down, completely oblivious to the fact that they sound like a total moron. "Well .. I think I've clearly shown some examples of how there are oligarchies in certain industries" - while literally not providing a single one and just talking about a general vibe they get or something
This also conveys another phenomena in how people “learn” about things in the digital age.
Rather than absorbing material to the point of comprehension, it’s good enough knowing _where_ to look up the material and how it superficially aligns with *their correct opinion* on any given topic
...but if you cant prove to me why I'm wrong, I must be right! Checkmate neolib!
Some people are trying to understand how reality works. And some people are trying to justify the utopian delusion they think people who think like them would bring about if given enough power.
Statements are just opinions, and there are a LOT of uninformed people. The problem isn't them stating their opinion OR being uninformed, the problem is not being willing to LEARN about the topic after forming an opinion.
I understand why they did it though. At that point they were saying stuff like "I tried", I"I hope you find somebody who can", " I already explained this and you're not listening", which meant that they'd changed their tactics to "Holy shit I'm getting wrecked, let me try to bail out of here with *some* dignity and pretend I won for a rhetorical victory".
the funniest part is when she litterally sais im so bad with history and cant give a single example and then in the same breath goes "maybe look it up". like how un selfaware can a person be
"I've watched some documentaries about it so maybe look it up"......B R U H the delusion.
@@BonkyChilliams Except instead of a documentary made by a major company at risk of being called out for misinformation it's a two hour TH-cam video.
Called monopolies of the gilded age oligarchies
@@BonkyChilliams she does know a documentary is proof or evidence of anything right?
@@the99throgue25 isn't*
This person was far too smug at the end of the conversation for someone who spent an hour making leftists look stupid without Destiny even needing to contribute.
It's a dumb time to talk about "money buying elections" after 6 years straight of lobbying upsets including the highest profile blowout in presidential history.
The deviation of US voting patterns from corporate interests somehow in perfect tandem with more money being injected into politics than any time in US history is remarkable.
Some dudes just don't know when to quit.
The second Destiny established that just because there's economic inequality doesn't mean there's an oligarchy and the other person kept on going anyway was the moment
Lefty: Venezuela failed and was overthrown by the CIA.
Destiny: how? Source?
Lefty: trust me bro
MFW time traveling U.S. sanctions from 2019 destroyed the Venezuelan economy in 2014
This lefty would probably say "I think its pretty well known that the CIA overthrew Venezuela's government"
They would be like "well the CIA has overthrown plenty of governments in the past so it's obviously them now"
The real kicker is worker coops had more to do with the collapse of their economy than the cia or sanctions ever did.
The US tried to overthrow Chavez in 2004 and again under each subsequent president. You can look up the failed coup attempt.
This conversation summarised essentially went like: "I don't know these definitions off heart, I'm not an expert and I can't give you any direct examples but I know this is true and you should definitely look into this."
Based
That's emotional reasoning for ya. It's why teaching critical thinking skills and learning self-awareness is so important and should get way more focus in public education. These views FEEL good to them, and our brains are VERY good at protecting us from things that don't feel good. Being wrong, especially on a topic you feel strongly about, doesn't feel good. It's why Destiny is adept at having his opinions change on subjects, he has no emotional or egotistical attachment to his opinions on any subject.
@@EsotericOccultist what?
@@yr3igs Look it up sweaty :)
@@roarbertbearatheon8565 might want to look up what "sweaty" means next time.
Christ that was painful, why is it always the most politically illiterate ones who are the most confident.
Because this dude is literally a computer builder and tester and this shouldn't have even happened...
@@abdullahx8118 I'm not sure why Destiny did this at all. Stupid.
I will add.... sorry to say, as this is totally judgmental and ad-hom... but why do these lefties *sound* exactly like what you'd expect in these conversations/ideologies? Do you know what I mean? This guy has ZERO testosterone, and sounds like your typical woke weirdo. And yet, these people think they have the guts, wisdom, experience, and moral supremacy to rule all of us... Ah yes, I'd love a nation with a million of THESE people at the helm. What a utopian paradise (facepalm). Sorry dude... just go be a gamer/coder in your basement... leave social rules, politics, and the heavy decisions up to those who move this country and world forward.
@@abandoned-mines-novascotia Do you know who Linus is?
@@BKDBut Ummm... that's NOT Linus speaking with Destiny.
"How can we have privately run utilities if the government answers to the people"
Because the people voted for it.
Oh man, that's a rabbit hole you probably don't want to go down lol
It's frustrating when someone who's just outright wrong can't just take the L. It's okay, we've all been wrong at some point. No one cares in the long run and on these platforms you can show you've grown in public.
If you think that guy was wrong then just look it up sweaty :)
@@roarbertbearatheon8565 Why would you need to be sweaty just to looking something up? Also I find it funny how both of you just use the "look it up" argument, tells you everything you need to know.
@@rayquaza1245 You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it look it up, sweaty. It's not my job to educate you :)
@@roarbertbearatheon8565 no u :)
It almost never happens in the moment that’s just how most people are
If, after listening to you speak for 20 minutes, I can accurately predict your position on any topic, there's a problem.
Its called "team sports politics" and its a serious problem online.
@@lawsonharrison6927 I’d say it’s a much wider problem than just online unfortunately.
@@lawsonharrison6927 : What about in those cases where there is an objectively true fact, yet people still hold opposing views. A good example of this was Kyle Rittenhouse who was proven to be acting in self defense. Despite this and the jury decision people online would continue calling him a “murderer.” Wouldn’t that be an objectively wrong take? Am I playing “team sports” by accepting the truth and case findings?
Another good example of what I am saying is the Russia vs Ukraine conflict. The objective truth there is Russia invaded Ukraine under zero merit and for personal gain. The contrarians will say silly stuff like “what about the Nazi’s” or “let’s listen to Putin’s demands and make a deal.” Am I playing team sports by explaining to folks why these takes are hogwash?
@@KilimnikGenya knowing facts and being able to use those facts to come to a conclusion others have come to isnt "team sports politics", it's when people just repeat talking points when you dont understand anything about the underlying issues or how the talking point even came to be
@@Jst.a.Normal.Bottle.of.Mustard : Ahh thanks for that explanation. That makes it a lot more clear for me.
If this was a right-leaning person, spouting stuff and "big tech", I imagine the convo would go the same way. 🤣
populism is a fool's game
Absolutely.
@@nad1ax2 why?
Im not really sure a right leaning person would be arguing that America is an oligarch. So this conversation wouldn't even take place.
@@luvmusl2163 it relies on intellectual thought leaders to dictate what isn't and what is in the greater populations' interest, such as socialists who think everyone's socialist and they don't know it yet, or reactionaries who think everyone has the same common sense and we're all just sheep when we suppress that to listen to corporations in a competitive market (which are also beholden to a significant number of regulations you can thoroughly learn and/or invoke to reform company conduct via tangible means)
populism on the other hand is just entertaining as many perspectives as possible to find one that's most durable to falsification. A lot more humbling a process than typical petitions to universal "truth".
5 minutes in and the other person is already confusing an Oligopoly with an Oligarchy
What is an Oligopoly? Never heard that before
Do you mean Plutocracy?
@@Josefsson9013 it's the difference between monopoly and monarchy
Hierarchical différence I'd guess, same thing
Looking at the building of the words btw not sure
State of limited competition. Where a market is shared by a limited number of people.
CPU is a good example you have intel and amd. Sure CPU generic 1 might start up but the bar to entry is so high becuase the other two have such a strangle hold on the production of the tech your Ethier going to sell a version of their stuff or nothing at all.
@@0doublezero0 Oh so like diamond business where they control both pricing and how much is out there, sorry if i missunderstand
"Im bad at history...But it was definitly the CIA trust me"
"I'm bad at definitions and wording anything I mean, but I know what I'm talking about... just my adhd btw"
Hey august. Can you do the OG intro jingle again. For old times sake. Just one time. You will make my year
🥺🥺
The old outro too please🥺
Just watch an old video? Lol
We need the intro and outro, it prepares me and clears my mind after.
I would love that too.
For the record, the first gilded era was not bad because it was getting extremely oligarchical, it’s because there were huge monopolies that created wealth disparity. When economists say this is the second gilded era, it’s because of the wealth disparity, huge swaths of capital that are owned by a small group of people, and the pseudo-monopolization of certain industries
Yes but try explaining the difference to this person
@@jangles3054 I think I’ll take the L on that one lmao
It’s hilarious that they brought this up to try and say the US was at some point an oligarchy, because the point of trust busting was the government being directly combative and breaking up massively wealthy monopolies, AKA the opposite of an oligarchy.
Something something Tammany Hall
I think you can pretty well argue that, in many cases, the tendency for wealth to accrue at the top in capitalism is, when it becomes severe enough, a de facto oligarchy.
The argument that we don't have a severely disproportionate amount of business leaders in government is just flat out wrong.
Our vice president was the CEO of a war profiteering company that pressured us into multiple wars, along with the oil millionaire president who invaded oil rich nations. Practically eery presidency throws the secretary of Treasury to a banking leader.
We're not a pure oligarchy, to be fair. But we're de facto a partial oligarchy, which is pretty undeniable.
I think one thing to keep in mind is that our oligarchs have realized that it is easier to hold control when they leave a significant portion of government in control of the common man. And they also benefit from the people having a significant portion of the wealth, because consumers spend money on the products they sell.
I don't think we live in an anti democratic plutocracy or pure oligarchy, but there are a ton of decisions made in our government purely to benefit corporate interests and the wealthy. Even if that's just a bi product of monied interests controlling the narrative of politics through media, and their limited but significant control over politics through lobbying and the rubbing of elbows between corporate heads and politicians.
I absolutely agree that corporate lobbying isn't 100% direct control of our democracy, but Destiny is massively understating how much control they definitely have.
Man this "debate" was funny as hell! 💀 it seems like they just took an amalgamation of lefty talking points and they just spewed them out at random when they had nothing else better to say. 😅
nothing will beat the incest debate. Top tier comedy.
@@EsotericOccultist they
Pronoun: they
2. Used to refer to a person of unspecified gender.
There, hope that helped!
@@EsotericOccultist I am trying to desperately avoid being dog piled
You think both of them were doing that?
@@leroture7750 Naw your grammar fascism didn't help.
41:37 Destiny: "If you're lobbying then by definition you don't have control.."
Caller: "Yes you do!"
Ok well I guess the US Association of Reptile Keepers (has a real lobbying group) are our overlords 🤣
We are the lizard people! XD
@@charleynewman5057 it’s attempted influence, but whether or not it lines up with the base of constituents preferred policies is the difference between democracy and oligarchy
@@charleynewman5057 Imagine being you
The fact that Destiny can sit through this level of prideful incompetency regularly without getting outwardly hostile every time makes him worthy of sainthood I swear, now if only that onmi-liberal guy on Twitter could do that same
o7
He should be more hostile, this shit is boring and his twitter has been hilarious recently
Are there any lefties aside from Destiny and Econoboi (perhaps also Rose Wrist?) who have a basic understanding of economics?
This must be how Dylan Burns feels when he hears the 10 IQ foreign policy takes from 95 percent of twitch.
Dylan Burns fell for the Ghost of Kiev meme.
Probably lots of lefties. Not everyone is a debate bro though.
Unlearning Economics is progressive but not exactly a leftist but he's great
The problem is if you’re a radical, most of your opinion is formed by ideology. They don’t really care about economic experts say. They just have this core populist foundational belief that of course we live in a oligarchy otherwise we would have had these popular A,B,C policies enacted.
Why are you acting like this is an uniquely "left-wing" problem? People of all political persuasions have issues with being too confident in their understanding of certain topics including economics.
Imagine hearing a detailed breakdown from destiny about the fall of Cuba with specifics.
Imagine refuting it with just "cia did it hurt"
Imagine ending with "I think you really need to learn history Destiny"
Imagine doing this while constantly needing to look up the definition of buzzwords you use after being corrected on them.
Imagine doing all of this while admitting you don't know history.
As a Venezuelan (not brown, sorry), I find it incredibly insulting that this person is suggesting I'm indoctrinated/brain washed for thinking socialism destroyed my country.
Destiny's take on why Venezuela's economy went down the shitter is fairly good :)
Do you play osrs?
@the sewer pig still here, planning to move
@@runelt99 no, i know people who unironically do it as a job, that news is not a meme
@@TheMrTangamandapio I’m so sorry that Carl Marx showed his ass in your country. I’d sponsor your move to America or wherever you plan on running to if I wasn’t poor af😂
Lol, not brown
This individual unironically just said that America doesn't subsidize Oil
Peak Bruh Moment
"I don't know how any of this works and I don't know the history and I have no examples.
Just trust me bro."
That 2 minute sequence when it was revealed the leftie didn’t know:
1. Super pacs can’t donate to campaigns
2. “How do you know it’s not happening though?”
3. Politicians actually DO HAVE TO disclose their donors
4. Donations are public record
5. “What’s Ballotpedia?”
I felt weak in the stomach from that
@@_12346. Destiny wasn't talking to Linus, this was someone who saw their interaction on Twitter and wanted to defend Linus' position (that USA is an oligarchy).
@@TheRedHaze3 my bad I fixed it
In a different conversation they'd be arguing that oil subsidies prove that the US government is corrupt. Meanwhile here they're giving the justification for some voters wanting oil subsidies 💀.
They keep saying "I'm not an economics expert" but oligarchy has nothing to do with economics. Maybe they're confusing oligopoly with oligarchy. 🤷
It does have to do with economics to a degree, at least from the lens of analyzing the effects on the economy and the telltale indicators of oligarchy such as state officials also being majority capital owners, but this caller was r worded
I get the impression that part of destiny's frustration with the nonsense of these arguments is that he used to believe this kind of stuff like I did and I feel the same way
This kind of urban legend is a bigger detriment to the left's goals than any number of right wing arguments. It's literally trapping people in an imaginary prison.
Look at his debate with exskillsme about Citizens United he(destiny) lost and started calling the other guy dishonest.
I don't think he ever believed any of this.
@@therealbaylee I actually just watched that one recently.
Could you explain to me how Destiny lost that one?
The other dude barely even knew what citizens United was or did.
Or am I thinking of a different citizens United debate?
@@asimplewizard was it this one th-cam.com/video/X6Y7ytrjQNM/w-d-xo.html
I think a lot of people watching this need to recognize theres a difference between corruption of politicians in a democracy. An oligarchy is a form of government.
If the United states was an oligarchy, it wouldn't be a democracy at all.
Steven is not arguing that we shouldn't get rid of corruption nor is he saying it's okay for companies to "buy up all the land" or take under the table donations.
yeah but the thing with illiberalism in say Brazil or Russia is that some form of democracy still remains on the lower levels but as you get closer to the top power becomes more and more cemented. So you can argue that USA is kind of an Oligarchy with power being cemented in these IVY league families (Bush's Clinton's Romny's etc) but Joe Biden kind of breaks that.
An oligarchy can have elements of a democracy whether for appearance or function, however a true democracy can't have elements of an oligarchy. It doesn't matter how much money a company donates whether it's under the table or legitimately real people are the ones that vote, companies don't get a vote. The media has more sway over people and their voting direction than how much money a company donated to which ever politicia, we saw this in the recent presidential election on both sides. Also just because a politican accepts money from a company it doesn't mean that they have to do what is requested of them by the company, they can still refuse! An oligarchy is completely different there is no refusal it just happens.
@Mekehl the us isn’t a democracy it’s a constitutional federal republic
@@zackshafto3040 A republic is typically a type of democracy.
@@kristianjensen5877 no
''i don't know how to look things up but why don't you just look it up cause you're wrong and i'm right. Oh you looked it up? Well it's not what i agree with so it's wrong. And ANY money being able to influence ANYTHING political means oligarchy'' The entire debate summarised for anyone who can't watch an hour long video
Why do all lefty’s sound exactly like this person? Am I losing my mind or has Destiny debated several leftists with almost this exact same voice?
Over-confident idiots all sound the same after they reach a certain smug level. It’s even funnier when you can tell they don’t know shit in the first ten minutes.
She's transitioning; trans women who start transitioning after puberty already have a thicker larynx and hormones don't make that go away. I think the main way to make their voices more feminine is surgery and that's obviously costly.
@@matronedea I’m not talking about the person’s gender, I have 0 problems with that. It’s more of a smug accent that a lot of upper class west coast leftists have. It’s a really annoying accent.
@@ThinWhiteLuke ah, I'm not sure then. I don't hear a specific accent, possibly because I'm from the west coast.
@@matronedea wait, isn’t this Linus tech tips? Google says Linus is a guy. Is the thumbnail a meme?
Every time a lefty shows a complete ignorance of topic X, they end the conversation by encouraging you to do more research on X.
I don't know anything about history, but I know for a fact that the CIA influenced the government of Venezuela. I watched a bunch of documentaries about it bro. Do some research jesus
"IM NOT AN EXPERT BUT I CAN DEFINITELY TELL YOU THAT THIS IS A FACT. LOOK IT UP." Is literally the same excuse that flat earthers and other conspiracy theorists use all the time.
This person was basically a conspiracy theorist that just read the headlines. How can you have such strong positions with not even hot air to support them. It's like screaming into a valley and having the echo be your confirmation of the veracity of your claims.
conspiracy theorist gets mad when their claim is called a conspiracy theory
When they said “Ballot-Pedia? Never heard of it.” My eyes rolled so hard.
"I've never looked up a single thing in regards to elections ever in my life" is basically what it means.
I like the strategy of making bold claims you can't support, then immediately doubling down on them when called into doubt.
51:21 Cuba does import cars from japan, germany, china, russia. The problem is, the wages are so low, that not many people can buy these cars. So whilst you won't see them often on the road, they still exist for the very few who can afford them. The only stipulation is that none of the parts within the car are US made.
Relative to worldwide, Cuba has a pretty high GDP per capita since the early 2000s, it's just centralized in Havana and large chunks are held by important people in the PCC.
Cuba is transitioning from a model of absolute disparity to one more like China, with a band of new nobility that cycle power around the Party but change up who holds it often enough to make it appear competitive.
Leftists tend to imagine that the US is blockading Cuba and has choked out all foreign investment, much like how myths pervade around Venezuela. This position is best explained by total ignorance or a college education.
I work with a guy who lived in the Soviet Union for 20+ years.
He HATES communism and socialism.
Obviously he will, because he lived through an oppresive regime under these ideas. That does not mean there are no good ideas to be found under these ideologies
The vast majority of citizens of former USSR countries hate communism and socialism. Almost half a century of harsh communism has destroyed the economy, infrastracture and technological progress of all the eastern european countries which still are nowhere near western Europe in terms of gdp per capita and overall living quality.
Ok
it's the same for east germany. Everybody hates GDR socialism aside from some very old nostalgic people and young lefties.
@@yannickgullentops6857 He said, as he was marched up the GALLOWS. Gotta love these USEFUL IDIOTS
Oligarchs were former communist party members that were hand picked and given ownership of the former USSR's means of production. With the swipe of a pen former Russian presidents and especially Putin handed Hugh swaths of formerly govt owned industries.
Close, but not fully true. Firstly, almost everyone was a member of the party, you had to be. Secondly, Privatisation was over before Putin got into power, it was highly upoplular and would not dare to continue it, also there was not much left to give out. Putin's modus operandi is government contracts and laws tailored for his friends, not giving them state owned property. Also, I did try hard, but could not find evidence of them being hand picked. They seem to have started as independent power grabs and only once they became big enough, they got more handouts from the government.
Guess what? The workers never owned the means of production during the USSR, because communism is and will always be a scam that results in a dicatorship/oligharcy where all people are ruled by a few select people
The whole argument of "the government can choose not to act in favour of the oligarchy" is so bs. The Oligarchy IS the government.
Wow bro so enlightening.
@@scotty212 You day that sarcastically but I feel like this wasnt properly adressed during the debate and its a much clearer and obvious point than the little details Destiny lets the debate revolve around. It would have been helpful to tell that person that even if the government does something for companies, thats still VERY different from the head of Colt being defense minister and Rockefeller having been Minister of Energy. Its such a clear distinction.
Lol another trap
So an oligarchy is just when rich people exist.
@@indicted_ham_sandwich Must be dependent on your astrology sign.
@@indicted_ham_sandwich “ I identify as living in an oligarchy”
I dont think its an oligarchy or anything, but I find it odd how dis-proportioned the influence of politics between a rich and poor person is in america. No rich people dont control the country, but their opinion clearly 'weighs' more than the average joe. Now ofcourse there are more average joes but still, its just very distopian to me
@@ri3121 But this is also true for every famous person. If somebody like Joe Rogan or Hasan Piker says to their fans "vote this candidate", then their opinion weighs thousands of times more than the average joe. That's the price of the freedom of expression.
@@MrNikoback Well yes, but the difference is, is that those people are influencing people to vote a certain way. This doesnt negate the free will of the people themselves. With lobbying you are exerting influence outside of voters themselves, essentially trying to bypass what voters want, to get what you want.
"I'm afraid of corporations and government colluding, so we should *combine* them in a government-run economy. I'm against oligarchies."
I feel like Destiny needed to hammer in on this "Dark Money" concept a lot more. He did it a little, but he needed to directly state "Look, you're using this term 'Dark Money' to with 0 justification or proof smuggle in "politicians receive unlimited amounts of money, just trust me, that makes all my statements justified by default", and before you gesture vaguely in the direction of Dark Money to make your argument for you, you *really* need to give proof of this".
The major disagreements were that
1. Caller asserted oligarchy = influence whereas Destiny says they require actual control
2. Caller claims dark money is anything spent for the representative/senator whereas Destiny makes a distinction between that and money going directly to them.
“I’m bad with lists. Let me check my tabs. It’s just my ADHD. I didn’t have time to prepare. Let me go back to my list. I am bad with giving definitions off the top of my head.”
The ending segment has me unironically thinking this person is a troll. Like how can you claim something so brazenly that directly has to do with history, and then say that you're super bad with history but simultaneously attempt to assure thousands of people that your historical claim is true.
Destiny: Why aren't there a whole bunch of people competing with Intel and AMD?
Commie: It doesn't have to apply to every private sector.
Destiny: Then how do you determine which private sector does it apply to?
Commie: I'm not an economist.
The way he determines it is when it's convenient for his oligarchy argument lmao.
For what it's worth, there aren't a bunch of people competing with Intel and AMD because it's illegal to do so due to restrictive patents. AMD and Via are only capable of competing because of an old agreement from the 80s/90s to produce x86 chips, without that it would just be Intel and the only competition would be from other architectures like ARM, and thanks to Microsoft that's been effectively non-competitive with the exception of Apple.
Recently many of those x86 patents are starting to expire, but there are so many that have been made since the old patents that you can't really implement a full x86 design even now. At best, you can maybe make an 8080 and wow people with your 8-bit processor.
@@hehefunnysharkgoa9515 The fact that microsoft still dominates is because it is hard to get people to transition to Linux because of barriers to the average user.
This is the classic, “I’ve heard this before and know it’s true, but I can’t remember why or how. But you should look into it because it’s a thing”
Sane individual: "The sky is blue"
This person: "Actually no, the sky is purple according to this one article I read that doesn't cite its sources"
Sane individual: "Ok.........well, here's scientific evidence of the phenomena that makes the sky blue, and an explanation of why it occurs"
This person: "No, you're just wrong the sky is purple"
Sane individual: "Alright, what color is this sheet of paper?"
This person: "Blue"
Sane individual: "OK EXCELLENT, so what color is the sky?"
This person: "Definitely purple"
Sane individual: "But it's the same color as the paper I just showed you"
This person: "Yeah well I'm actually not very good with colors so I could be wrong"
Sane individual: "..........................You literally just said it was DEFINITELY purple, you said it with such authority even though now you're saying you're bad with colors."
This person: "Yeah that's because it _is_ purple."
This person: "Hey can I plug my twitter before I go?"
Sane individual: "Sure, I don't see how that would invite chaos to your doorstep at all, especially after making yourself look like a fool as publicly as possible. Seems like a great idea, go for it."
"check out my Twitter, it's where I do most of my arguing"
that explains a lot
15% of oil and gas workers are unionized. Most of them are the dangerous jobs. Not engineering ones.
The engineers are incredibly well paid. I had friends who were making 200k a year by their 30's who were pipeline engineers.
bruh this person had no clue how to defend their oligarchy argument lol. Destiny, "why arent people competeting against intel and AMD for chips", response: "well theres not an oligarchy there but there still is" ..... okay buddy okay lmfao
Maybe it would help if the guest had any knowledge before they started engaging in this conversation?
Medicare should be an easy example. 65% support and yet insurance and pharma donations keep the legislation at bay. Even directly happened in Cali after the bill go shot down newsom received millions in donations.
There are a lot of economists that say I actually don’t have to clean my room, mom.
Not understanding that workers have an interest in their employer's profits is truly peak economy understander...
I think it feels true if you've never held a position in a company higher than entry level employee. If you move up/buy stock/get equity in a company then you definitely care about the future of the business.
These people think having a bunch of tabs open amounts to knowledge
you're literally talking about destiny
The lefty debating destiny is jumping through some mental hoops to get to his position
Look, I get that the loss of life in Ukraine is a terrible tragedy, but the real tragedy is the effect this invasion has had on online discourse.
making arguments hinging on facts they have to constantly reopen tabs to remember, curious
Destiny is wrong about the Cuban embargo. The way it works is that if you want to do business in Cuba, you are blocked from the US. So they are the primary reason why you can't find Japanese or German cars in Cuba, very few companies will choose the Cuban market over the American one for obvious reasons.
I’m really worried for our future… it used to be people, especially intellectuals, realized they weren’t educated on a subject and wouldn’t engage in conversations or arguments about it. Now that more people are college “educated”, they believe they are all knowing intellectuals and experts on anything they feel passionate about.
I dont think Trumps fans consider themselves "college educated"
The "Pardon?" in the intro had me rolling lmao. Keep it up August!
22:30
This dude really just demonstrated he has no idea how defense contracting works.
He also has no idea how large the defense industry is lol
Said three companies isn’t enough for a developed economy. So what’s the right number of businesses to be in the sector?
@@WilliamtheAlchemist Sweden is the most despotic country on the planet, they have a developed economy and 1 (one) aerospace company that produces jets at scale.
The US is almost too competitive with how we do arms procurement, there are a lot of areas to improve, but they have to do with civilian apathy, not legitimate government capture.
Businesses have the most sway in areas which the people give no fucks about, even if they are technically important. Leftists tend to overstate their hand by claiming businesses coordinate the most contentious topics in the US when in reality big D is more focused on local elections and making sure the city their offices are in doesn't fuck them over.
Holy shit this person just says "i cant remember" and then goes searching on google for answers every 10 seconds. Wtf is going on, wait "i just need to find my Roosevelt tab"
Corporate interest *can* align with the average citizen, but Destiny’s rhetoric is strongly implying that is *mostly* does. When his guest is arguing it mostly doesn’t.
The number of rhetorical hairs being split in this convo is maddening.
The caller made a generalization that corporate interests override citizen interests when they do conflict. Destiny was asking for an example.
I think destiny's point was that because things can align, you cannot just point to a single time a corporation got what it wanted, because the people could have wanted it too. The example of the power issues in Texas. Yes companies got what they wanted, but until shit hit the fan it seemed like the will of the people was behind it too. And now public view shifted... They are making changes.
Destiny wanted a proper counter example in which the broad will of the voters was against it. I think there are counter examples, but usually in the lesser known areas. Think obscure internet copywrite law, not a big voter turnout caring about those issues. But all the big tech and media companies will be lobbying for their interests.
No, destiny said that they can align because the guy provided a single example as evidence, and in the case of literally a single example it could be the case that the corporate interests did align with the will of the people
"I don't know how you can be from Cuba and have done to you what America's done to you simply because you're a communist country, and think that capitalist countries are any better." Bro, tell me you’ve never spoken to a Cuban without telling me you’ve never spoken to a Cuban 🙄
I don’t agree with the politics of right-wing Cubans, but as a Cuban myself I at least understand where they are coming from and why, cause I’ve heard the stories of their struggles back on the island, and the struggle to escape and reunite families. So when I speak with them on politics I can handle that convo with empathy and compassion and am better able to frame my arguments in a way that makes sense for them. It also allows me to better understand the nature of their biases and gives me a foundation to work from.
As long as leftist continue callously disregarding the trauma and context of others like this, we’ll never make progress. How can you hope to change someone’s mind when it’s clear you’re condescending and patronizing as hell cause you “don’t understand” how they believe what they believe.
By no means do you have to be a Cuban to understand, but maybe just fucking talk to a few or read about their experiences before speaking on it saying you “don’t understand.” That’s not good enough.
LOL. No, oil engineers dont get a lot of money bc they are unionized, but bc those jobs are fkin DANGEROUS.
The word Linus wants to argue is Plutocracy, where I still wouldn’t agree with him but he’d have a lot more room to argue. Perhaps even just wants to say corporate interests can have excessive monopsony power in many situations which I actually would tend to agree with. He obviously doesn’t really understand what an oligarchy is defined by, and probably shouldn’t be making strong statements like that without a better understanding of the terms he’s using. This is not to say there isn’t a myriad of issues closely associated with wealth disparity in the USA, which there certainly are.
I think are examples of oligarchocal things happening in the US this person just didn't know enough to argue it. The first example that came to my head was Intuit (the TurboTax guys) paying off politicians so that they don't go through with their plans of making a free and easy software to file your taxes. The IRS knows how much most people owe because of employers reporting the exact amounts if taxes theyre paying and so it doesn't need to be nearly as hard or expensive to file your taxes as it is rn. Intuit decided to pay off a bunch of politicians to not go through with making it and instead bargained that Intuit would make a free way to file taxes themselves. They technically do but they've intentional made it impossible to find on Google and it's barely ever free because they add on charges for basically everything.
I'm trying to get ready for work dude why would you distract me with this? Now I'm gonna be late:(
Ouch, right in the feed
Just to clarify something this other guy said, not all oil refineries in the US have unionized workers. I myself am a union employee at a BP refinery but There are other BP refineries that are completely non-union.
I can't believe the amount of people in the comments who actually think this is Linus from LinusTechTips. They plug their twitter at the end, did you guys even watch the video?
Is Linus a fan of Destiny?
no but he is a fan of ur mom. wooyeah
@@Shams-fe6lq
My mother would never date someone in sandals and socks
@@monkeybudge who?
Linus has a lot of fans in his pc case
Dude these finicky definitional arguments are so pointless.
There seems to be alot of conflation between "influence" and "control" at some crucial points in this discussion
i am from venezuela, socialism sucks, it sucks so much. our people have become lazy and expecting of handouts, we wont even defend ourselves anymore, everything is corrupt and everything is mediocre, we are so fucked, the only reason people can live here is because of all the people who left and is sending money in, individuals, not goverment not even corporations are keeping the country afloat, individual people are.
I’m about halfway through, but there needs to be way more push back on “a lot of economists say _____.” Name more than one or two economists, or give me a credible poll.
“Look it up” is just a translation to “I have no fucking idea what I’m talking about”
It started out like "Alright not too bad."
It ended like "Holy shit mate."
@@Fredy_The_Yeti Nononono, you don't get it, this is because of CIA and US oligarchs. I can't explain but I watched this documentary, look it up 🙄
@@Vegan_Kebab_In_My_Hand the "i'm bad at explaining, just my adhd btw" was like top cringe comedy.
Lmfao imagine telling the Cuban about Cuba 🇨🇺
Listening to this really put me on tilt.
I've been building a computer lately so a lot of Gamers Nexus and LTT content is in my feed. I did *not* expect Linus and Destiny to be in the same recommend, though.
Can we get him to talk to LTG next?
This is just arguing over semantics. Big companies have lobbied so that certain terrible foods aren't banned like they are in other countries and the public is mostly unaware. Whether or not that makes it an "oligarch" doesn't matter. The American people are suffering because of it.
Oligarchy: a small group of people having control of a country, organization, or institution.
The rich business owners in America do not control America.
They actually control America more than they do Russia. Putin has more personal power than Biden does. This is just low IQ liberal idealism, completely brainlet tier take on how power works. It’s western chauvinistic propaganda full stop. American billionaires and the powerful: fine entrepreneurs, businessmen, job creators. Russian billionaires and the powerful: evil oligarchs, the ‘regime’. It’s like that meme about “our brave warriors” vs their “savage barabarians” and it’s just these stick figures with swords that look the same.
depends on which type of business. If you're an owner in any type of business requiring collusion then any of the transaction made technically counts as a form of superior control over the institutional outcome.
@@kubes8388 you mean like two companies colluding and fixing prices? Yeah, that's illegal. Governments will give huge fines if that comes to light. That's like the opposite of the government acting on their behalf.
1 word: Blackrock.
@@zarlei6048 having policies that are in line with corporate interests doesn’t mean corporations control America. If they had control, they wouldn’t have to spend billions on lobbying. This is just a confusion of terms. Maybe it’s just my liberal braindeadness kicking in, but I think there’s a meaningful difference between control and trying to convince those in control via lobbying.
“I’m not an economics expert” yeah bro we can tell😂
Not that this person seems like a bad person or anything, they just don't seem very good at organizing they're thoughts and coherently making arguments. I know they said they have ADHD, and I can relate, but they don't seem like the best candidate to argue with about marriage.
he*
I think Destiny is wrong on the Cuban sanctions. My understanding is that the United States doesn’t allow any companies that do business with the United States or are based in the United States to trade in Cuba.
Bless his heart. I couldn't do all this talking to these lefties who don't know the basic facts about a topic.
Offshore oil workers aren't all unionized, traditionally it's actually uncommon. And either way, for very obvious reason, oil workers unions often massively support increases in drilling, fracking, pipelines, etc.
Wow the clickbait is real
I disagree with Destiny on this. The idea that the U.S. has become oligarchical is not controversial or fringe. Wikipedia actually talks about this extensively.
aww.. all the early comments falling for the clickbait is cute and tragic at the same time
"NO, NO, NO IT WASN'T LIKE THAT AT ALL!!"
"Then what was it like?"
"I DON'T KNOW, I'M BAD AT HISTORY. BUT I WATCHED A DOCUMENTARY. YOU'RE WRONG, LOOK IT UP!!"
jesus christ what a shitshow
THE GAME IS ROGUE TOWER
Thank god, I can't comprehend why it was so hard to find even using ctr + f and scrolling down through a large number of comments. X D
Ah, my favorite series "Destiny is way too charitable with people whose opinions were decided by a single tweet 5 years ago and have never been explored further"
I'm not a economist
Me: no shit
Basically an hour of them disagreeing on the definition of oligarchy, and disagreeing about how much dark money there is.
Ayye early birds and orbiters!! When's the next DGG cult meeting? Heard the dalibans got a new "list" for us.
"The interest of the worker is a byproduct of seeking more profits" Destiny never seen a sweatshop in his life 😆