I wonder if wargamers are a dying breed. ww.patreon.com/letstalktabletop #hobby #wargame #warhammer #warhammer40k #dnd #gamesworkshop #warhammerageofsigmar
@@h.s.lafever3277 Sorry mate, I thought it was hard enough being in Australia trying to find other wargamers, couldn't imagine how it would be in Alaska...😅
I am 53 and just started wargaming( 5 months ago). I bought one starter set of some kind from warhammer. Then, while watching TH-cam videos on wargaming, found onepagerules. So I got a resin 3d printer and went to town. My 10 and 12 year old daughters have each painted their armies. And my 7 year old son wants an army as well. I have several grand daughters who are also interested. One of which has already played a couple of games. So, I printed her an army as well. I could never have afforded to buy this many armies. I also like how simple the rules can be for the kids. Especially the free core rules. As the girls learn more, we introduce more advanced rules based on the child. My goal is to get about half my kids playing and eventually all 9 of my grandkids.
Good for you! For some similarly figure agnostic games that can use the same figures at reasonable prices with different takes on rule design, check out rules from Osprey Games and Two Hour Wargames.
I have not tried OPR since I had started with D&D->MTG->WHFB->and finally The Ninth Age (T9A). T9A is a great system that is based off of GW WHFB (before they killed it off) and they have refined/clarified the rules, created a starter version (Essence of War) which is
Hey I just want to say, I’m 13 walking down the road and stumbled into a store, they gave me a free mini to paint and I got hooked, got my mom to buy me the starter pack, and eventually managed to buy a primaries intercessor marine pack, but man is it expensive corporate greed is no joke 😅 I don’t even know if I can afford it especially in my country
I am 19. I started wargaming about 4 to 4 1/2 years ago, getting into Warhammer 40k at the start of ninth edition. I got into it with a group of 4-5 guys that played MTG. They were between 1-3 years older than me, and one a year younger than me.
Absolutely agree. My hope is combat patrol and spearhead, particularly the magazines, help a new generation get in to the hobby without breaking the bank. The lack of community centres for kids\young teens to do stuff in evening, I think, also means it's harder to find a friendly group to get into it. D&D however is much cheaper to start, and can even be played online with a group. Can even play together at home without needing a big table set up
I sold all of my stuff a few years ago mainly because I saw writing on the wall: 1:) Primaris marines. Those guys are going to replace the first born models. Wait and see. 2:) I forgot what it was called, legacy rules I think, where they made chaos lords with jump packs illegal in tournaments? What? You mean this model I spent money on I can no longer use? 3:) More recently, I heard something about half of the Stormcast Eternals models were being retired. Welp, everyone has to buy whatever the new meta is. GW is trying to turn buying models into a subscription service. I will never get back into war gaming unless I have a 3D printer.
As someone who got into wargaming in their 30s (with Team Yankee), I'm honestly not worried. This seems to be a hobby that people grow into with age/maturity and an interest in history. Let GW compete with Marvel, Fortnite and phone games for the zoomers, us grogs will be waiting patiently for them to age in.
Wargamming for kids is hard to say, but wargamming for adults in their early 20s is thriving. Particularly in warhammer, where online gaming I.E tabletop simulator has been growing, the vast amount of warhammer based youtube content has been creating a larger audience, and the audiobooks have been doing very well to bring people into the hobby. But the price is offputting, and very much scaring people away, there's no denying that. Hobby shops for wargaming has been receding over the years due to both a price increase of models, and the fact that card games are far more lucrative then models. Plus (based on the conversations I've had with some game shop owners in my area), GW has a shitty way of talking to shop owners that turns them away from wanting to feature their model lines. A "we're the biggest in the industry, therefore you have to come to us" mentality by the stories I've heard. Though 3d printing has been hurting GW something fierce that they can either double down on price markups, or learn to adapt and lower their prices. Obviously, we've seen which choice investors have forced them into.
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For the questions: I know 5 adult wargamer and 1 child. I played wargames when I was 16 or so but didn't play for long before having a break of 25 years. About the lack of young wargames: I think that's not a new problem but an evergreen that historical wargamers were complaining about for ages as well. Problem with D&D is that they require a high buy in of time and money from the GM and so there is kind of a GM crisis going on. Comic books are also in sharp decline but Japanese Mangas seem to be super popular with kids these days.
Thanks for chiming in! You're five to one ratio of adults to children seems pretty high, but it's a small sample size. I'm sure that child is probably playing because of one or more of the adults. LOL. And the age you got into it fits exactly what I'm talking about. Historicals really are dying out though, nearly all of their players are retirement age.
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@@LetsTalkTabletop Considering the child is my son you are damn right about that! It would be interested to see event statistics from historical wargaming conventions to see how their numbers hold up. Considering the population in the western world generally starts to skew towards older people having people in their retirement age as main game demographic might not be the worst thing... 😁
D&D is pushed in store, podcasts and schools. were as the flagship war game is 400$ to start and has a stigma to it. along with more investment. where d&d is quick
I do not know anyone under 18 playing wargames. I myself was in my early 40s when I got into wargaming. *Note, I did play the original FASA Battletech when I was a teenager, which back then I considered as a boardgame, and played it more as an extension of the RPG MechWarrior.
Games Workshop games used to be the entry point into wargaming for many. They used to be priced at pocket money level. When I started in the 80s the cost of miniatures were within my price point as a young kid. Today as an adult I can't justify buying a new army for 40K or AoS, it's far too expensive. I know lit of people will say, yeah but there's this game and that game where it's much cheaper etc etc. The problem they forget is; how does a youngster new to the hobby find those. Games Workshop in the UK has a high street presence which makes going via that route easier.
That's exactly what I said in the video. Warhammer soaks up all of the attention, and all of the TH-cam views, and everything else. They very nearly have a monopoly when it comes to public perception. It's extremely hard to get anybody into other games because all they hear about is warhammer.
Sorry, but your rose colored glasses must come off about the past - GW was NEVER ‘pocket money’. A Rogue Trader rule book cost you $50. In 1987. Think about that. At the job I was working at minimum wage then, that was an entire week’s pay.
@@mjames70 Actually in 1983 Warhammer Fantasy was £5.95, which when I was a kid. The miniatures were in pocket money price range as well. A blister of three metal minis was around £1.50. So yeah they were in pocket money price range back then.
@@Big_Blue_Monkey I don’t live in the UK, Rogue Trader and WFB were $50 books, and two figures from a blister do not an army make. Tell me how many of those blisters would you need to make any kind of a reasonably sized army, and tell me that is still pocket money 😆
@@mjames70 It was pocket money price because you could add to your army on a regular basis. Back then armies weren't as big as they are now. We started with skirmish sized forces. The first Warhammer rules didn't use a point system, you played with what you had. I use to able to add on average 5-9 minis a month by saving my weekly pocket money. We also didn't just buy Citadel miniatures. The first box of plastics was £9.99 for 60 miniatures in 87.
It's not that kids can't afford wargaming; they can't afford any hobby. Most hobby communities are kind of suffering the same issue. It's because literally everything in their lives is expensive. Most hobbies are just people in the 30+ range at this point; across the board. Kids don't even work on their own cars anymore for the most part. Young people would love to be doing hobbies, but unless you have a good income through your parents, it's realistically hard to do anything as a kid besides the ever popular drawing and other free activities.
9:00 Another question-When you got into wargaming in your teens or childhood, how many 30-40 year old guys (outside your own family) did you know that wargamed? I saw them, but I didn't know them. Middle aged men not personally knowing kids that wargame does not mean that there aren't any kids. Parents buying warhammer for kids still out-spend even the whales by a large margin. When was a starter set 80 bucks? 20 years ago? 30 years ago? The older sets also had a lot less in them. Warhammer has stopped wargaming from growing? I'd agree that it has stifled creativity, though that tends to be down to the other manufacturers (who prefer to try to copy GW rather than making something truly original in many cases) but to say GW has stifled the growth of the industry is crazy when the opposite is true. Before GW, wargaming really was 90% middle aged to old men. And Wargaming was a heck of a lot more niche than it is now. Ultimately wargaming requires a lot of effort and passion. No matter how cheap it is, you can't force that required entry level passion and effort. You can make things simpler and easier with basic rules and pre-painted miniatures, but if you go too far down that path, eventually you're no longer indulging in the hobby at all.
I mean. War hammer costs $100+ for 2 units and the rules are difficult for me (34m). So like... I absolutely do not expect kids to play this. I know one kid (16) at the two stores I go to that plays Warhammer. I started this past year at 34 lol
Could it also be something there are just too many games to choose from? As mentioned in a post every body seems to want to sell you something, and overcharge for a table at a games store. There`s a new games shop in my town, and it`s doing very well with lots of juniors players, mostly D&D type games. Another reason that wargaming itself is just BORING?
Not true, all my friends and me are getting $800 lego star wars sets and all other kind of expensive collectibles. We just dont want to play warhammer. Rules change faster than our desire to learn new rules as this is not a game for casual players. The amount of learning and work and painting is not worth it to play a handful of games every year. Barrier to entry is too high. We actually went to a warhammer tournament and all people were excited to hear the lore, excited to see models and paintjobs, but they were visibly confused and suffering through the rules. I mean painting your figures and learning rules for a month just for most of your army to be obliterated during first turn shooting before you can even make a turn does not seem enjoyable. I can just start working or put my effort into something else.
@@WrathAmon1it is true to some point and I have gotten this from friends who run a gaming store and who are parents and they will tell you cost is a major sticking point, but not the only thing.
I think a new shift to indie skirmish games is making wargames more cheap and accessible. Some games only need like five bucks for rules, a teeny little table and about 4-6 minis to start or like 10 for two people.
That certainly has to help, but Warhammer still soaks up all of the attention unfortunately. I think many people take one look at the prices of Warhammer and assume that is all wargaming.
Things like SAGA and Bolt Action are very approachable. Bolt action you can play with 2 $30 boxes of figures (1 a side), a handful of dice and the rule book. SAGA is the same. I think Frostgrave is good for a similar reason.
@@LetsTalkTabletop yeah it sure does suck. I recently got into turnip 28 tho and that’s an absolute blast. Also point of entry is like £40 for a full army of forty guys.
@@LetsTalkTabletop What warhammer and GW also does. Is increase the prices of cheaper wargames. Since well. If wargamers pay that much for warhammer. We can also get away with more.
Okay, I’m 66, just to give you perspective. Cost is certainly an issue, but, as you said, that’s an issue for everyone, not just kids. I think it’s just a cultural/technological issue, more than anything else. When I was a kid, everyone played board games. Okay, not war games, things like monopoly and clue and risk. But the activity was there. Same with building models. Almost every boy built plastic models. Some just cars, but most did tanks and planes and ships as well. There just wasn’t much else to do other than watch 📺. But with phones and consoles and pc’s there’s just too many easier and less demanding sources if similar entertainment. Not many people ride horses anymore either.
To answer your two questions: 1) Children = None. If you asked me a decade ago, I would have said 15-20. The numbers are gone for reasons listed further below. As for adults, I live in Minneapolis, which is nearly considered the mecca of all gaming. We have over 20 shops without even counting the greater metro area. 2) I started at 15. I saw the Rogue Trader book at my local comic shop, and that was the beginning of the end. Though I did collect D&D figs by Citadel/Partha/Foundry/etc. since I was 7. But that was just because I had $0.50 to $0.75 burning a hole in my pocket and I saw a cool fig I liked. Never painted until my mid 20's. Only ink washed the bare metal. On the topic of the rest of the video: Frostgrave and Deadzone are probably the best in class (price and time investment), while being criminally underrated for the rules they offer. These should be what the banner wavers direct noobs towards. Game shops, however, are dying. Often by their own hand, because many try to charge for gaming space, which nullifies the entire premise of "Pay where you play" to be able to use their game space. If I am going to be charged for it, I may as well buy everything from amazon, and just stay home and game. Why should I buy a Warcry set and other assorted stuff for the game, only to be told I have to pay $10 every hour I game? They may as well tear out all gaming space and make it only retail, if the space is that precious. Online shopping was already a problem, but quite a few game shops (at least here) are attempting to nickel and dime everything to death, turning their stores into microtransactions. To the point where I am opting out completely from the ecosystem. Thus, the exposure is decreasing for more reasons than merely the ridiculous premium GW puts on their products (even though thats a huge reason too). We are definitely regressing back to the before times, when hardcore wargamers were making their own rules and playing chit based games from companies like Avalon Hill, etc. during the 60's. Dark times, but they also caused a complete paradigm shift, since folks like Arneson, Gygax, Ansell, etc. created weird wargames and basically the entire industry of miniatures as we know it today. I feel the winds of change, and its name is 3d printing. Bank on it. Because GW sure as hell isn't. And those who grasp this new thing will surely see GW under their heels.
heck even my local store(Not GW). That sells all the warhammer stuff. Tell people. To try out 3d printing. And even offers advice for it. Because they know even with 3d printing. People will buy some real models. Just to ad to it. And the barrier to entry is big. And they are also wargamers themselves.
I only paint, but I just got a set of Frostgrave minis and was pleasantly surprised at the level of detail. Also they're so much more modular than GW minis. Really impressed.
When have there ever been a lot of kids into wargaming? When I started as a teen (in the early 90s) I knew three other people around my age who were in to wargames. Most the wargamers I know today didn't actually get into it until their twenties or thirties (including some who flirted with GW in their teens, then stopped for a few years). They're also less likely to have started with GW (in fact a fair few came over from D&D and the like). For that matter, I have yet to meet a historical wargamer (well, outside of Bolt Action) that wasn't a greybeard, and I'm reasonably sure (okay, about 50/50 if I'm honest) they don't spring into being fully formed in their mid forties. I think there's always been a bit of a split between those of us who came in early - usually via GW, and probably these days the licensed Star Wars or Marvel stuff - because we really wanted to play with big stompy robots or magical elves, and those who come in a bit later via an interest in history, or artistry, or just a hobby that doesn't involve screens.
I’m the grandfather of our wargaming group. I’m in my 70’s. I got into wargaming when my two sons were 10 and 12 respectively and wanted to play warhammer. That was 30 years ago. Needless to say we purchased 3 starter boxes and went from there. Now 4 of my grandsons are into warhammer and wargaming. So with us it is a generational hobby that we have come to enjoy as a family, and also with our local wargaming group. In fact, I have given several armies away to younger players who could not afford the initial cost!
GW's model is get a new player that can buy a big starter box, that person will then spend on paints and accessories over about 18 months then quit. Hence getting the most money up front. Its basically the life insurance sales model.
You hit the nail on the head. The cost of entry and the instant gratification of games really hurts getting the younger people starting. I don't know any Childern who play but I did start young. I was playing army men before high school
It's not necessarily the instant gratification. It's more the engagement. It's harder to keep someone's attention when you're taking 45 fucking minutes to end your turn because you have a 100+ model army, than it is to play on a unit activation basis with 20-30 models each.
Back in the late '80 when I went to elementry school it was pretty common for boys to have a box filled with plastic soldiers/army men. At least in the place where I grew up. They would go pretty well with the die cast toy cars. Matchbox even made both. Also board games where pretty common. So in 5th or 6th grade if you stumbled upon Space Crusade/Star Quest the transition was easy.
@@Dominik189 That only becomes an issue if you allready started wargaming and have a rather sizable army. Its also more or less 40k specific. When you start you will play small games with the miniatures that you allready have. Which might only be a single squad that comes in one box. Even 40k with its archaic turn structure is quick when each player only has 10 minis. From there on it starts to grow and become slow. The real problem IMHO is getting to this point in the first place. I fully agree that there is little appeal of the wargaming hobby for somebody who is not allready into it. Its not mainstream. There is little exposure. Kids do not play board games to the same extend as 30 years ago anymore. So the concept of rolling dice and game mechanics are not that familliar to them. A major point IMHO is the decline of brick and mortar stores. In toy stores and especially the FLGS there would be lots of exposure to all sorts of games. The internet makes stuff for the hobby easily accessible BUT there is little exposure outside of what you know. Nobody really browses and online store like a real store. The social interaction also is missing. In a games store people can point out to you that GW products are hideously expensive and there are much more affordable alternatives. You also can see people playing games that you might not know about. All of that is more or less gone. Since GW and 40k is the most present in the internet they have a massive advantage in exposure. The high price point will than scare young people away. If they like the style and lore they can easily and cheaply pick up a 40k theme computer game or app.
Started at 13 with Rogue Trader in 89, got my son interested in wargames when he turned 17. Our LFGS is all adults with most in the mid 20 to mid 30s. The teenagers mostly play DnD or MTG. Price points are the biggest issue, my son has expressed concern for the cost bc I buy for him. We've also watched parents turn down their children after seeing the price of GW minis.
57 life time table top player all time favorite is Battletech! Still love it today. You can get started for as Low as $ 30 or invest in a starter box for $60 and you can play endless missions and go no further. Collect more books and units and bigger battles
I couldn't agree more. Left GW to play Battletech. No regrets. Very complex rules though...kids wouldn't play it with me for that reason alone. Alpha strike maybe? But I've given up on bringing them in for now.
Hard agree. I'll add that it isn't just the budget that's keeping the next generation out of the hobby, when box stores becoming fewer and farther between there's no place to go as an entry point.
@@TheSegert Didn't say it wasn't, its just isn't the only thing. Younger people these days are driving much less than previous generations. If your only game store is more than a town away, that's certainly a barrier. Meanwhile the competition (videogames) is just a click away.
I'm 51 and started playing AD&D in the 10th grade (1989) and started playing 40K when i was stationed at Ft Hood in 1994, our group runs from players in their early 60s (my older friends) to their early 20s (my son who's 23 and his friends). i think we have a different world now than when I/we were younger. computers and E-gaming is a big part of that. GW does not care about long-term players (the marshmallows) or the young players who are trying to learn to play (no gaming in their stores). they want the power gamer addicts and the starter army sales to people who want to try the game and they don't care if you keep playing because their "business model" already made the money off you that they had projected with your "buy-in"... i tell people to try other things OR buy used/knock off stuff for 40k and fantasy as you just cant afford this game at GW shelf price... and stay away from GW sanctioned tournaments as they are basically toxic cesspits of competitive asshats 🙂
Historical wargaming is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper, plus it gives people the opportunity to learn history and get a better understaning of the past, present and future; GW is just a big rip-off imho!
For me the models of alternative games are not as good. I have been seduced by competitor models and even bought a few but when they are there in front of you their final form is not as obvious as it is with a GW model. You may have a unpainted GW model in front of you but the potential is obvious (to me at least). This is not so with competitor models, the proportions are off, or the sculps just don't sit well. This is IMHO...I have reduced my GW spend to almost nothing now and seeking out new models bhut the lure of GW is strong.
If GW would drop prices and increase production to put their products into department stores such as Walmart and Target, that would fix a lot of the issues.
The problem is too much of the wargaming hobby (especially on TH-cam) is focused on nothing but Warhammer. Once you get away from that and find either smaller skirmish games for the low model count, or miniature agnostic games where you use whatever cheap mini's that are the right size and look like what they are, you get games that are much more friendly to new players.
You're 100% right. But unfortunately it's that snake eating its tail again, where Warhammer based videos get the most views so people make more Warhammer videos which of course expose more people to warhammer.
I sense what you are talking about is perhaps gaming or games of war. Traditional wargaming is a very different beast which really trying to examine and test a hypothesis. It also seeks to explore history in depth if it is geared towards historical battles.
Great points in this video! I’m a huge advocate for Mantic Games and the way they make (war) gaming accessible. But they capture a tiny proportion of the market compared to the big boy. Started wargaming: 8 years old (1988) with my dad Club mates ages: 25-65 Could name 1 Wargamer under 20, as someone’s son who played kings of war
Comic book industry is really a different beast here. Tbh comics just kind of suck now. There's a very real reason that the manga industry is blowing it out of the water.
dont know any kids, and yeah probably know close to 100 adults. I started at 24 - but really it was only because i moved to UK - couldnt afford it in my country. Also got bad news for you : GW knows the hobby is sinking and they just accept it - milking the whales, more and more exclusive and collectible stuff, licensing to Amazon, comics, action figures and general merch - it will be less and less about games in games workshop....
I actually have the same feeling. I think they know that 3D printing is becoming more of a threat everyday and they're just milking it for all they can while they can.
People are losing face to face social skills in the digital world where you just communicate over a head set. Also, you have to like painting, scratch building and reading and my buddy finds it easier just to play video game versions of the game. He has no patience for the tabletop.
This is not my definition of wargaming. I wargame with flat cardboard squares with tiny roman legionnaires (or soldier divisions with numbers) painted on them. And those games are like 40 to 80 bucks a piece for everything (map, all the units, and LARGE rules booklets). "Graphics don't matter, gameplay matters."
PRICING Currently i think the price is the by far biggest issue. I would go as far as to say. If the prices where reduced. We wont have this problem anymore. Wargaming and warhammer in particulair. Gets a huge boost in popularity due to major games getting popular. Warhammer total war, Darktide, Space marine 2 is a big hyped game. So that gets many people in a hobby..... If it wasnt so expensive. I dont know the markup of games workshop. Cost vs profit. But im willing to bet tit is more than 60 percent of the price. Maybe even 80. So. If they halved all the prices on main GW stuff and cut 30 percent on forgeworld. They would probably still make a profit. And a gigantic ammount of people would enter the hobby. Like. Maybe even tripling it current player count. That Is how crucial the pricing is in this discussion. And with hat 50 percent reduction. They would probably increase their overal profits extremely. The only problem i see. Is the production capacity. As GW. Has problems with that even currently. Or they are deliberly creating FOMO(Fear of missing out). But if it is production. This would probably make it very bad. BUT. It would increase profits overal. Mainline plastic GW. Would be the mainstream stuff. Forgeworld would be the more expensive specialized stuff. That the older people enjoy. HOW MANY YOUNG PEOPLE DOING WARGAMING IN MY AREA? More than i thought. I know 2 to 3 kids under 16 that are very young that. Do build and play it. They have not coincidentally often parents that are also into wargaming. So that is factor. I know around 10 teenagers that are into wargaming. Many also like D and D. But well they are strapped for cash. so dont have huge armies. And play with what theyve got. Im a bit older. 28 years old. And i can afford some stuff. But for me... I have to make hard choices. Those chaos boxsets from a while back? I Wanted them. But couldnt. As i only had 250 euros. And i wanted both. I could not afford it. It would have costed me 360 euros. SO i chose not to get them. And not start a chaos army. And boxsets are the cheapest way to start. I could afford one. But nah it didnt feel as it was worth it. No imagine how this is for younger people? With less money. Or parents. That also have less money. Since they have to stretch it more often. Then you see the effect of less young people getting into the hobby. However overal. I think there are more people in the hobby. Henry Cavill made it populair. The popular games we have. Do also give it a publicity boost. So overal there are more people. The biggest thing is the price. That is the biggest sole barrier to entry. WHEN DID I GET INTO THE HOBBY? I live in a medium sized city in a province of the netherlands. When i was around 8-10 i had friends. That where a bit older than me. That played MESBG. And i got invited to use one of their armies to play in a tournament. In 2006 was this or so? This happened a few times. They had Rohan, Gondor, Elves(lothlorien?), Isengard and mordor. I loved the isengard army as they had 2 metal isengard trolls. I love to play with them. But during these tournaments. There where other tournaments and games played. I saw 40k. Armies with tyrannids with lots of carnifexes. Love the look on those. necrons. One had a monolith that he lovelingly called the slot machine. And i saw warhammer fantasy. Empire, Wood elves. And i was interested in those. This planted the seed later. When i got money to start collecting these models. Back in those days. A squad cost around 25 euros. And a hero or a character 5 to 10. It was even expensive back then for me. But that was because i was from a poor family. 25 euros was a lot back then for me. Now 25... Is cheap. I got a more money. My friends where decently well off still working class. But they got spending money. I had a sole mom. That was from a foreign country and was on goverment benifits. And she had to stretch the money with 3 kids. Without a working partner. She did a great job. But that planted the seed of wargaming in me? Over the years it got more and more expensive. It was crazy. A squad can no cost as much as 45 or 50 and for Horus heresy even 60. And with less models. So yeah. The barrier to entry these days is steeper than ever. Because of the price. But the popularity of the francise is also bigger than ever. If GW wants more people into to hobby to sell to. Slash the prices in half. And all the shelves will probably be empty in a few days.
It’s a lot more expensive to get into war gaming and the PC war gaming and RPG experience is a lot better than it was when we were younger. We now have games like total war Warhammer and Balders gate 3. When I was younger the best PC game was age of empires. Best way to get into Warhammer is to buy 3rd party miniatures, get the rules online for free and then learn to play and paint that way. I am getting into the old world and I am starting with a 1250pt army and will not go to a 2000pt army until I’ve had a few solid games in.
There are some nice games around you can start with a few minis. I recommend Warlord´s "Achtung! Panzer" which needed only 2-3 Tanks per side and comes at the same scale as Bolt Action. Or Tank Wars, which is the tank skirmish for Bolt Action, I would recommend 4-7 tanks per side. One could start with a these and later paint the infantry for Bolt Action. We also need to step down from the high painting standards Games Workshop has set in the gaming world. It really frustrates new players when they buy expensive minis and mess them up.
I can tell you that we are not a dying breed. I am 13 and i started warhammer two months ago. I managed to get three friends to start with it too. But that might be because i live in a rich country (sweden) and therefore kids get higher allowance here. But the recent price increase still hurts ALOT. anything worth 450 crowns jumped up to 490 crowns, which is about 5-6 dollars i believe. So it is much harder to justify this hobby to my parents lol.
You nailed it with the choices (digital) available today. We had very little and made up rules for green and brown army men "wargames". We also had an 8-Track player back then too!
I hear simliar things from musicans and in some sports (even politics knowing soem active local politicans). "Clubs" or similar associations is not as natural a places as before for teenagers to spend their free time. I started as teenager maninly because in school others played so we teached/inspired each other.
I want to add to this, that there is a patience that comes with most hands on hobbies. Sadly maybe the future generations that are primed on dopamine games and tablets won’t even be able to find it engaging enough. I worry what this jump into the digital world with out fully thinking will lead to travesties similar to those we are now addressing of the Industrial Revolution growth; but these maybe more in sociology form and loss of so many arts and skills. Maybe we won’t even notice as there won’t be a comparative, similar how we romanticize medieval times but in reality have no real day to day concept of how it really was.
While this is mostly true and I do agree, I think we'll find them preferring to slow down and take a step back from the psychic assault that being constantly plugged into the digital world brings. The ones seeking peace may find some of it in the hobby. After all, gardening, home renovation, cooking - sure, all live giving pursuits, but creative expressions stemming from aesthetic preferences, all the same.
This is a topic that comes around as regular as clockwork, it has been prevalent in the hobby since I began back in 1986. It was a constant question asked in the magazines of the time and is still being asked forty years later just in different formats. Kids had other distractions then, and yet some of them still wargamed, same as today. I recently went to the Partizan and Salute shows and the amount of kids there with their parents was incredibly encouraging. However, wargaming is naturally something that attracts older people, due to things you mentioned, more disposable income, more time, more patience, etc. So, as the older wargamers pass away new ones join the ranks, just in their adulthood, rather than as kids. It is a perpetual cycle and if the two recent shows were anything to go by the hobby is as healthy and active as it ever has been.
I'm sure what you're saying is true, but we also don't live in a vacuum. Times can change and past results are no indicator of future gains, as the stock market says. Never before have we had so much to occupy young people's time that was free and cheap and easy. I don't think it's the same scenario as it has been in yesteryear. I guess we will have to see! I'm not saying the children aren't in it at all, I'm just saying if you look at the comment section the vast majority of us got into it as a teenager and the vast majority of us don't know any teenagers who play.
@@LetsTalkTabletop at our club this week were two teenagers playing Chain of Command. I know that's anecdotal, but kids have huge barriers in front of them when getting into wargaming, so in order for kids to get into it need adults to guide them. You mentioned your kids friends are interested in your models, have them play a game, organise a painting and modelling session at your place or even the FLGS. I'm not putting the onus on you, I'm merely pointing here that there are things we as the older crowd can do to encourage youngsters into the hobby.
I don't know if you missed it or not, but in my video I said that I run a Warhammer club at the local library for teens. You're right, it does lower the barrier for entry when veterans help out the new guys.
@@LetsTalkTabletop apologies, you did indeed. How about suggesting to the Warhammer kids that they might want to try something else one week? Something with a lower barrier for entry and to introduce them to the wider world of gaming? You may already do this, but if you've got a captive audience already...
Excellent video! I have been war gaming since the 70’s- it’s always been a hobby for “older people “ (mostly older men) - it’s like collecting cars- young people can’t afford to do it ( they have neither time nor money) older people have both time and money- just wait-children Role players will mature into table top war gamers- the hobby has been “dying” since its creation
Thanks! I'm not sure I agree with you though, if you read the comments in this video I was pretty much spot on with my assumption. Most people started wargaming in their teens and they are in their 30s or 40s now, and most of them don't know any teenagers or just a handful. There's definitely been a dynamic change. It might be societal, or technological, or economic, but there's definitely a change from the '80s and '90s. I do know what you mean though, people cry that the sky is falling all the time. But I think there's a little more to this.
Great video, It is not just wargaming that is dying because of the cost and the digital age, I went with my Dad to a model Railway show in Scotland not long ago it was packed with people, I am in my 50s and I felt like I was the youngest person in the room the new generation of kids are just not interested.
Thanks for watching! Yeah, I think model trains are ahead of the curve on the aging of their population. When I think about it, I feel like that is the ultimate luxury hobby. You need a ton of room to set up your train, a ton of time to buy and build all of that stuff, and then a ton of patients and solitude to use it. I see exactly what you're saying.
Here's the real question: How many shop windows in your town are showing miniatures / tabletop wargames? Bet you in 99% of places it's zero. In big cities there'll actually be some (slightly more than zero), cause it's literally Warhammer shops, so they'll have some minis on display. Other than that, forget it. The hobby's dead. (And it's been this way since a bunch of years before covid.)
In the game Infinity by Corvus Belli, the Action Packs typically focus on providing a selection of specialized units that emphasize tactical versatility and individual capabilities, rather than a cohesive, large-scale army like those seen in Warhammer 40k's Combat Patrols. For instance, while a Combat Patrol in Warhammer 40k might include a balanced mix of units like 10 Space Marines, a Dreadnought, and a tank, providing a clear battlefield role distribution, Infinity's Action Packs are more about creating a team of elite operatives with distinct roles and abilities. Infinity's gameplay revolves around smaller, more intricate skirmishes where each unit's role and positioning are critical. Therefore, Action Packs often include a mix of different troop types, specialists, and support units designed to perform in specific scenarios, rather than forming a generalized force capable of handling various threats like a Warhammer 40k Combat Patrol. This reflects Infinity's emphasis on tactical depth, where each unit is a crucial component of a finely tuned strategy, rather than just one part of a larger war machine.
I got into it at 14 my school had a 40k club at lunch times, i'm now 39. I mainly collect now as i have a family, i tried getting my sons into it but they have no interest.
I had to give up on GW with the costs going through the roof. Now I play Battletech. It's been a lot cheaper but the rules are still very complicated. I also started playing COIN games using cardboard chits and paper boards l, so not very expensive. But again, very complex rule sets. I wish I could point to a game that has a simple ruleset and 3d printable models and/or standees to keep prices down. And maybe a free army builder app. I started wargaming in my late teens (needed a job). My lids will play battletech with me but rately. Other than that I dont see any young people playing.
I just released my new rules adaptation for brutality called brutal epic. It is customizable Mech battles in 6 mm. Check it out if you're interested! www.brutalityskirmishwargame.com
15 or so, did my first mail order to GW, collected grenedier minis, rest from airfix,matchbox,and eschi and started making my own, peaked around 20 but declined after 30, more watching than doing it. I was playing my own games younger with Britains using ruler and rubberbands and the artillery which fired matchsticks when lost plastic ammo
Yeah theyr'e (GW) certainly not thinking about who's going to be their customers in 20 years. Maybe that's what being a shortsighted profit seeking company means though. Its all about jam today.
Great topic! My work is to teach kids to paint and play with miniatures. And I see a lot of the same problems. Actually Warhammer is a bad gateway game for wargaming. It’s not just the price point but the rules too. yet it’s the biggest and the one brand everyone have heard of.. I wonder why Star Wars legion and marvel crisis protocol isn’t bigger to the younger audience? They already know the IP. At my work I have focused on One page rule. The rule set is really good and easy to learn and it’s fun for adults too. My son how is 5 years old and my we are playing it, and he understands the rules after to games!
Hey! I have been trying to get my friends into wargaming and noticed a couple of difficulties. Might explain a few things. This hobby takes a lot of space, and not a lot of people can afford this space. After moving appartments i dont have a pile of shame anymore, just because i have no space for it. Skirmish games are great, i love space weirdos and my friends are enjoying it, yet lack of lore can be a double edged sword. Sure you can come up with your own lore, but it's nice to have a general vibe. Turnip28 is doing a lot in this, but it is very nieche. The last point is figuring out what this hobby is about. There is a lot of aspects to it, but what i've seen is that great lore and ability to express yourself in play are way more rewarding, than any kind of hardcore simulation. This would necesitate lighter and looser rules, but that would surely make it harder to play against people that you dont know, like in clubs.
Have you checked out Brutality Skirmish Wargame? You stat your own models out using the character creation system. Any genre or model range, and lore that supports it.
So many negative societal factors impacting wargaming. Hell, it's killing off boardgaming. I believe were people and parents not so stressed out, we would see a lot more kids doing wargaming stuff. I don't think it's a lack of interest, it's more the time it takes and the cost. You can't tell me a boy who sees a decently painted army isn't going to go, wooooooah cool. It's the painting, and prohibitive and complex rules which can turn kids and parents off. However, you can find some great war game kids stuff out there. Yet, as said, that also takes time and if you are entry level, where would you go?
IMO: Boxed starter sets are the future of the hobby and it's something that GW fails to deliver in recent times because of greed i guess. There is always something missing in the recent releases, like terrain (big one), rulers or balanced armies (looking at you leviathan box). Even if they have a starter box like for kill team it's kinda shitty (terrain missing as well) - most of the time you will need to get something else, just to play the game. Corvus Belli has great starter boxes with a decent price that have everything in them. Halo Flashpoint from mantic presents itself more as a board game but it has everything as well. GW just misses out on parents buying their kids a one and done set.
Im 30 at moment never had money to spend on a wargamer army or anything. or the space. Also where i life it aint realy a thing people play or host matches. I do remember there being a shop you could buy 40K warhammer things back in the day but it didnt work here in NL that was in city of Den Bosch but im realy talking years ago when i was a child. I do believe there is some underground warhammer events in NL or war time but eh yeah the reason i mostly didnt get in this hobby is money wise. I do enjoy watching content about it but im like a flower on the wall person if comes to warhammer stuf. i love some of it but even for me its not realy affordebale with my income. Do like a lot of the Orc stuf or watching people kit bash things together. But yeah i probaly have some more reasons if i think about it. I have looked into Bottle Action might be my best alternative to make something as a wargame with ather hobby i have.
And you should also take a look at Solo gaming. Or possibly gaming online via tabletop simulator. If you played on tabletop simulator you could play any of these games for free and there are meetup groups that would play you online.
No the smarter and less lazy of us are 3d printing and don't need hobby shops anymore and we don't need the common player base either the wargamers who are decent individuals who appreciate the hobby and fun are still around we just refuse to include any cry babies and people that want to argue over foot print rulings for a desperate shooting phase etc and we don't include tournament based players unless they want to accept fair equivilent rules for inclusion one we abolished was having fully painted miniatures to participate. Nothing kills our hobby anymore the players with bad attitudes are just learning there never was a place for them.
Yeah, I know from personal experience that the more and more casual I become the less I want to play random people. Because there's a lot of bad players out there that are hyper competitive and take the game too seriously. I have always been a casual player, but I used to wonder why they were such insular little groups of players that did not interact with the greater community, but in recent years I understand more and more.
It's a greater macro trend tbh more than it is about money. Like kids don't play in-person really anymore. A lot of outdoor activities are basically free (like just biking around or street hockey, etc.) and there are almost no kids around do that stuff. It's not useful to talk about prices from the 90's or earlier either because those conditions are not in place today. While I don't really like the cost, I cannot say it's the main driver behind why recruitment for 18 and under is very low.
Yeah I do think some of it is cultural change. Especially with technology. Almost nobody hangs out in person anymore, and I'm sure it's even more so for children.
I still argue that warhammer is cheaper than magic the gathering. In warhammer once you complete an army you only need to buy a new box like once a year to keep up. In magic you need to keep buying to keep up. Magic is 50 dollars to start but thousands to be competitive. Warhammer is about a thousands dollars to start but like 150 dollars(based on my splitting the skaventide box) once in awhile for new rules and units.
Of course you could say one is cheaper than the other, but if they're both overpriced then where are we? Magic charges exorbitant prices for little pieces of cardboard which are infinitely easier and cheaper to produce than miniatures.
For me, the wargaming seed was planted when I was a kid. I bought a few GW models, but never really understood the concept of codexes, etc. There was no real internet back then and I didn't have anyone to explain how the game worked so the models just sat in my closet. I didn't really get into it until my early 30s. And then I started a TH-cam channel to offset the cost of it lol
I didn't get into wargaming until my late 30's. Kids are more into video games. Video games are a great way to get people into war gaming. I learned about Warhammer through video games as well. Ravaged Star made over a million dollars on Gamefound this year so I don't think wargaming is going anywhere. It's more popular in EU than America as well.
Got into minipainting at 35, have yet to play a game yet, only have done a few dnd one shots because of a gm capable coworker. It's not a cheap hobby, my vr gaming set up was cheaper than my mini addiction. I know 0 children and 0 adults into wargaming.
This is purely from a male perspective. I'm a bloke so what should you expect? Personally, the last 20+ years have only seen improvements in wargaming. From my early teens trying warhammer, to my mid 20s navigating historicals and all sorts of wargaming stuff alone. Trying clubs and being 'shunned' by all my mates who were too cool, then anyway. Now in our mid 30s most of my (same) friends now regularly wargame, roleplay and play board games along with their partners. There are about a dozen wargames clubs within 10 miles of me, that I know of. We've got kids now and I regularly play 'wargames' with my 5 year old daughter. We set up a table together, populate it with minis and then make up whatever rules we like that allow her to roll as many dice as she can physically hold. Several of my friends are starting to do the same. I personally don't see wargaming itself as a kids thing anyway. The hobby relies more on knowledge of the real world, where passions and interests have grown over time. Hence , why many don't get into historicals until a bit later. What 12 year old is interested in the Punic Wars and which 60 year old isn't? I genuinely believe that the compulsion to collect toy soldiers is formed from a combination of trying to regain an element of control back into ones life and also being able to expand an interest (be it history,pop culture or whatever) into a physical space. Then theres the whole male loneliness aspect that often gets overlooked. We tend to expel and lose friendships far quicker and easier than we make them, and we're pretty terrible at maintaining friendships. Wargaming allows us an additional lifeline to oppose our natural tendecy towards isolation and a solitary existance. Perhaps bleak but true. So, as I said at the beginning, the hobby seems very healthy. Its just that kids playing isn't a healthy metric to check against. I'm guessing its the late 20s when the true gamers emerge. Anyway, theres my thoughts 😆
Well put! Thanks for commenting. I agree 100% on the loneliness part. But I'm still concerned about the young player portion. If you check the comment section, probably 80% of the people who replied began as a teenager and those same people don't know any teenagers who play. Obviously that's not perfect data, but it's still alarming.
@LetsTalkTabletop i'd argue that the elephant in the room is the reevaluation of the relationship and interactions between the two age groups. 20 years ago there weren't many concerns raised about men over 30 interacting with teenagers . Now, that relationship has far more scrtiny and even a certain level of stigma attached to it, for better and worse. The teenagers likely aren't playing games outside of family or close friends, hence reduced visibility. They'll likely emerge in their mid-late 20s as family ties weaken and friends drift. As for comments of cost. Wargaming has always been expensive. Accounting for inflation and relative values GW prices aren't actually that much different in their pricing from 20 years ago. Perhaps we register their price changes more than say, the price of food, because they're more luxury item than necessity.
I got in at 12yo. If we look at lifetime numbers I knew about 30 wargamers, 2 of them encouraging their sons to play. This hobby will only shrink as time goes by, but don't worry about companies too much- they will create FOMO and make addicted fans buy.
Oh, I'm certainly not worried about games workshop. LOL. I like their games okay, but they have seriously predatory pricing schemes which I don't appreciate.
They believe that they make a premium product for people with money. Just as you said 30-55yo so employed with regular income. GW doesn't care for price sensitive people. One more thing - you mentioned comic books. We must differentiate between types. Manga will be fine for many years to come. I think that TPB of most popular superhero comics like Spider or Batman will survive a long time in paper form too. As for miniatures Lego continues to be popular amongst kids and teens, maybe prepainted miniature skirmishes will be the product for new generation?
I got started at 11. I know a couple of dozen wargamers aged 30 plus, and two children who play. One of those children is my son, but he has a fairly active club at his school playing mostly 40k and Age of Sigmar.
Me, and my friend group are a bunch of Zoomers, older Zoomers mind you, mid 20s. Some of us started as teens, I started at 20. Funnily enough, this video popped into my recommended the day my mates and I just did a 40K tournament, our first for most of us. I'm also super excited for Halo Flashpoint coming out towards the end of this year.
The practicaly only games played here are GW games. An avarge proper army costs what an adult makes in a month. So the cost is one barier. The other barier is what the armies are made of 6+ vehicles , in extrem situations 9 or even 12. Those are not kids friendly armies to have. Then there are the games rules. Easy if you played the last 20-30 years, no so much if you are starting. Then there is the whole balance thing. Now veteran players can say that the game is most balanced now , then it ever was. Thing is the new player doesn't care that in 7th ed the game was worse. They care what is now , and a new player can't use (especialy as a kid) the veteran trick of if X is unfun , l will just play Y . Because the new player , at best, will just have X. Finaly it is the turn over of armies, kind of a linked to the thing l mentioned before. Not even an adult wants to be told that the army they just collected became illegal or bad for anywhere between a few years to forever. GW games have a few months windows, where the player has to buyb, paint and then get as much fun playing his army , ax ut is possible, because the next time it will be fun could be in 3-6 years. And telling some 14y old that he will now have to wait 3-6 years to have fun is asking A LOT from him. That is why in stores in my country most players are end 20s mid 30s , with a chunky group of 40 year olds and exactly 0 teens , never mind kids
@@LetsTalkTabletop sorry for the bad english and auto correct making it worse. In the end for us her the game is too complicated and too expensive for kids. Asking mom to get 5$ so you can buy 4 metal models , so in 4-5 weeks you have a unit is one thing . Asking mom for 100$ for a starter set is way beyond that. Especialy in places where a good job is 500$ plus
I've been saying this for years, it's just too expensive for the younger generation to get into. The local scene is late teens/early 20's and above. The local club here has no one under the age of 30... I'm starting to move away from mass battle games as the cost and time to construct an army is getting hard to justify. Skirmish games seem a heap more appealing to me at the moment. I will keep the large armies I have but I have zero plans to buy into another mass battle game in the foreseeable future.
It would make my day if you checked out Brutality Skirmish Wargame. There is a free version of the rules on the Facebook group if you'd like to check out the rules before any purchases. It's model and genre agnostic with the lore supporting that.
Been hearing this for decades. GW wont be popular with younger people, but there are plenty of other games to dive into. Lots of games with a Rulebook and force around $100.
Yes, but unfortunately Warhammer takes all of the spotlight. My fear is that new people see the prices of Warhammer and assume it's that way for all war games.
@@LetsTalkTabletop if ypu go to any con, there are alternatives. In out figs, we play small publisher games and dead games. I just got a coworker into mini.gaming and he is in his 30's. First game, heavy gear.
My grandfather painted and recreated civil war battles. when i was 8 and showed me how to paint the models. i sucked and he did not play games. he just recreated the battle fields. i was a preteen in the 80s when i got into AD&D, a friend of my father gave me several chainmail rule books. then i discovered gw fantasy battles and rogue trader. I have seen 2 teenagers in the last 10 years. my own son who is now 26 has no interest. and he says its a price point issue. and i cannot blame him with the price ranges of gw stuff. but you are correct, a video game is what 60 and some of them last for a while and has loads of replay. why spend a thousand on an army you may not like once you can actually play it.
It’s because it’s unbelievably expensive and literally a waste of money? Bolt action and such just will never be as big as 40k they need the people coming in the store for the bigger games, but nobody wants the bigger games because the complete and utter greed that azmodee and GW have shown. Only in 40k can you buy premium books, and figures and then the next edition they’re useless. You can still use MTG and Pokémon cards from the 90s in formats, but models you bought 5 years ago, no longer belong in your army for this new edition, and there is no format or store location that supports your old rules. On top of the fact GW will sell all that old stock at full price, then turn around and say “yeah that book is useless if you wanna play here.” And then peoples unwillingness to use your damn wallets. You didn’t stop buying when they got rid of their third party art community, didn’t stop buying when they refused to produce out of stock models and instead kept releasing new kits. Didn’t stop buying when they broke the promise of 9th being the last total edition change, released broken tenth one month after the last 9th codex came out literally making them all useless within a year of release for most of them, and y’all kept buying. Perhaps THAT Is why wargaming is dying?
Well put! I think the list of crimes and greed that GW has performed is quite long. That's why I would much rather play smaller games from smaller companies or independent creators.
@@LetsTalkTabletop truth, at least with bolt action there’s what 3 editions or something? And you can play any basically and find someone ready to play. I’m not too familiar with other tabletop games I remember a guy telling me many reasons bolt action was better though. With the top dogs having such a huge list of charges, I’m afraid it also effects the smaller the games unfortunately. Many of us have been here a long time and can feel when it’s right to look at other games like yourself, but new people are going to be drawn to that massive section, and see GW before anything else, be turned off and never look at a TTWG again. Others find it very hard to give it up even temporarily and GW just keeps coasting on that loyalty.
Exactly! I've heard many people say that this wargaming hobby is expensive, but that really isn't true. Warhammer is expensive. But there are dozens of other games where your $100 or $200 investment could last you decades. It's a shame that Warhammer has such a stranglehold on the table top gaming industry that it is used as the example for all War games. I have no doubt some people get turned off by the steep Warhammer prices and think all games are like that.
Im 18 and ive been playing battletech for pribably the past 3 years. Ive never net another person my age who plays. However ive net maybe 5 guys that play warhammer and heard about more that ive never met. The vast majority though have all been adults
Wow, your whole video is what I’ve been saying and what a few other gamers have been for years only to get shot down by a lot of the warhammer elites so I’ve glad you are getting this out there. I guess I started out young I still play D&D which was of course the first rpg I ever played and still play but since then I’ve play soooo many others, I’ve always loved miniatures started with trains my first mini was a grenadier ninja 😄 I know of more adult war gamers (probably in the 30 to 40+ age range) I don’t know of many or any younger wargamers I know of more ttrpger’s from a wide range of ages.
Thanks for chiming in! So far everybody's responses have been mostly in line with what I thought. They don't know any children in the game, and most of them started in their younger years. There is a hardcore group of die hard Games Workshop Fanboys that will defend everything they do to the bitter end. Many people have made a personality out of being a Warhammer player.
@@LetsTalkTabletop I remember in the early 2000’s I was into warhammer and 40k, I had wanted to get my gaming group to play but that didn’t happen 🤷🏾♂️ and then I think that was when the year price increases started. After a year or so I told people I had to tap out with few gamers in my area at the time and the cost steadily climbing as much as I liked the minis there where plenty of other minis I could use for other games and minis I could paint that had a acceptable price. Even now I look at the price of some games and I get kinda ehhhh the price anxiety 🤷🏾♂️
Totally understandable. I have finally also reached that point with warhammer. Their prices are already ridiculous and they keep doing their annual price hikes
I don't even know any wargamers... I've just been painting and solo wargaming for 2 decades 😅
😳😳😳
..which is a very honorable thing. 👍
Alaskan here, i know your hurt
@@h.s.lafever3277 Sorry mate, I thought it was hard enough being in Australia trying to find other wargamers, couldn't imagine how it would be in Alaska...😅
Stoic, I am the same.
I am 53 and just started wargaming( 5 months ago). I bought one starter set of some kind from warhammer. Then, while watching TH-cam videos on wargaming, found onepagerules. So I got a resin 3d printer and went to town. My 10 and 12 year old daughters have each painted their armies. And my 7 year old son wants an army as well. I have several grand daughters who are also interested. One of which has already played a couple of games. So, I printed her an army as well. I could never have afforded to buy this many armies. I also like how simple the rules can be for the kids. Especially the free core rules. As the girls learn more, we introduce more advanced rules based on the child. My goal is to get about half my kids playing and eventually all 9 of my grandkids.
OPR are Fantastic. I envy you the family following.
Good for you! For some similarly figure agnostic games that can use the same figures at reasonable prices with different takes on rule design, check out rules from Osprey Games and Two Hour Wargames.
Me too and I'm 54
I was born into the wrong family
I have not tried OPR since I had started with D&D->MTG->WHFB->and finally The Ninth Age (T9A). T9A is a great system that is based off of GW WHFB (before they killed it off) and they have refined/clarified the rules, created a starter version (Essence of War) which is
Hey I just want to say, I’m 13 walking down the road and stumbled into a store, they gave me a free mini to paint and I got hooked, got my mom to buy me the starter pack, and eventually managed to buy a primaries intercessor marine pack, but man is it expensive corporate greed is no joke 😅 I don’t even know if I can afford it especially in my country
I am 19. I started wargaming about 4 to 4 1/2 years ago, getting into Warhammer 40k at the start of ninth edition. I got into it with a group of 4-5 guys that played MTG. They were between 1-3 years older than me, and one a year younger than me.
Absolutely agree. My hope is combat patrol and spearhead, particularly the magazines, help a new generation get in to the hobby without breaking the bank. The lack of community centres for kids\young teens to do stuff in evening, I think, also means it's harder to find a friendly group to get into it.
D&D however is much cheaper to start, and can even be played online with a group. Can even play together at home without needing a big table set up
This hobby is too difficult to get into as a young kid. You need your own money really
You need to hold a knife (cutter), pliers and glue in this hobby. Is it not suitable for kids.
I sold all of my stuff a few years ago mainly because I saw writing on the wall:
1:) Primaris marines. Those guys are going to replace the first born models. Wait and see.
2:) I forgot what it was called, legacy rules I think, where they made chaos lords with jump packs illegal in tournaments? What? You mean this model I spent money on I can no longer use?
3:) More recently, I heard something about half of the Stormcast Eternals models were being retired. Welp, everyone has to buy whatever the new meta is.
GW is trying to turn buying models into a subscription service.
I will never get back into war gaming unless I have a 3D printer.
As someone who got into wargaming in their 30s (with Team Yankee), I'm honestly not worried. This seems to be a hobby that people grow into with age/maturity and an interest in history.
Let GW compete with Marvel, Fortnite and phone games for the zoomers, us grogs will be waiting patiently for them to age in.
Marvel Heroclick? fortnite is a pc game. nonsense.
@@JoseGabrielMattaGonzales I mean hobbies in general, not game systems.
Wargamming for kids is hard to say, but wargamming for adults in their early 20s is thriving. Particularly in warhammer, where online gaming I.E tabletop simulator has been growing, the vast amount of warhammer based youtube content has been creating a larger audience, and the audiobooks have been doing very well to bring people into the hobby. But the price is offputting, and very much scaring people away, there's no denying that.
Hobby shops for wargaming has been receding over the years due to both a price increase of models, and the fact that card games are far more lucrative then models. Plus (based on the conversations I've had with some game shop owners in my area), GW has a shitty way of talking to shop owners that turns them away from wanting to feature their model lines. A "we're the biggest in the industry, therefore you have to come to us" mentality by the stories I've heard. Though 3d printing has been hurting GW something fierce that they can either double down on price markups, or learn to adapt and lower their prices. Obviously, we've seen which choice investors have forced them into.
For the questions: I know 5 adult wargamer and 1 child. I played wargames when I was 16 or so but didn't play for long before having a break of 25 years.
About the lack of young wargames: I think that's not a new problem but an evergreen that historical wargamers were complaining about for ages as well.
Problem with D&D is that they require a high buy in of time and money from the GM and so there is kind of a GM crisis going on.
Comic books are also in sharp decline but Japanese Mangas seem to be super popular with kids these days.
Thanks for chiming in! You're five to one ratio of adults to children seems pretty high, but it's a small sample size. I'm sure that child is probably playing because of one or more of the adults. LOL. And the age you got into it fits exactly what I'm talking about. Historicals really are dying out though, nearly all of their players are retirement age.
@@LetsTalkTabletop Considering the child is my son you are damn right about that!
It would be interested to see event statistics from historical wargaming conventions to see how their numbers hold up. Considering the population in the western world generally starts to skew towards older people having people in their retirement age as main game demographic might not be the worst thing... 😁
D&D is pushed in store, podcasts and schools. were as the flagship war game is 400$ to start and has a stigma to it. along with more investment. where d&d is quick
I do not know anyone under 18 playing wargames. I myself was in my early 40s when I got into wargaming. *Note, I did play the original FASA Battletech when I was a teenager, which back then I considered as a boardgame, and played it more as an extension of the RPG MechWarrior.
Games Workshop games used to be the entry point into wargaming for many. They used to be priced at pocket money level. When I started in the 80s the cost of miniatures were within my price point as a young kid. Today as an adult I can't justify buying a new army for 40K or AoS, it's far too expensive. I know lit of people will say, yeah but there's this game and that game where it's much cheaper etc etc. The problem they forget is; how does a youngster new to the hobby find those. Games Workshop in the UK has a high street presence which makes going via that route easier.
That's exactly what I said in the video. Warhammer soaks up all of the attention, and all of the TH-cam views, and everything else. They very nearly have a monopoly when it comes to public perception. It's extremely hard to get anybody into other games because all they hear about is warhammer.
Sorry, but your rose colored glasses must come off about the past - GW was NEVER ‘pocket money’. A Rogue Trader rule book cost you $50. In 1987. Think about that. At the job I was working at minimum wage then, that was an entire week’s pay.
@@mjames70 Actually in 1983 Warhammer Fantasy was £5.95, which when I was a kid. The miniatures were in pocket money price range as well. A blister of three metal minis was around £1.50. So yeah they were in pocket money price range back then.
@@Big_Blue_Monkey I don’t live in the UK, Rogue Trader and WFB were $50 books, and two figures from a blister do not an army make. Tell me how many of those blisters would you need to make any kind of a reasonably sized army, and tell me that is still pocket money 😆
@@mjames70 It was pocket money price because you could add to your army on a regular basis. Back then armies weren't as big as they are now. We started with skirmish sized forces. The first Warhammer rules didn't use a point system, you played with what you had. I use to able to add on average 5-9 minis a month by saving my weekly pocket money. We also didn't just buy Citadel miniatures. The first box of plastics was £9.99 for 60 miniatures in 87.
It's not that kids can't afford wargaming; they can't afford any hobby. Most hobby communities are kind of suffering the same issue. It's because literally everything in their lives is expensive. Most hobbies are just people in the 30+ range at this point; across the board. Kids don't even work on their own cars anymore for the most part. Young people would love to be doing hobbies, but unless you have a good income through your parents, it's realistically hard to do anything as a kid besides the ever popular drawing and other free activities.
9:00 Another question-When you got into wargaming in your teens or childhood, how many 30-40 year old guys (outside your own family) did you know that wargamed? I saw them, but I didn't know them. Middle aged men not personally knowing kids that wargame does not mean that there aren't any kids. Parents buying warhammer for kids still out-spend even the whales by a large margin.
When was a starter set 80 bucks? 20 years ago? 30 years ago? The older sets also had a lot less in them.
Warhammer has stopped wargaming from growing? I'd agree that it has stifled creativity, though that tends to be down to the other manufacturers (who prefer to try to copy GW rather than making something truly original in many cases) but to say GW has stifled the growth of the industry is crazy when the opposite is true. Before GW, wargaming really was 90% middle aged to old men. And Wargaming was a heck of a lot more niche than it is now.
Ultimately wargaming requires a lot of effort and passion. No matter how cheap it is, you can't force that required entry level passion and effort.
You can make things simpler and easier with basic rules and pre-painted miniatures, but if you go too far down that path, eventually you're no longer indulging in the hobby at all.
The 40K 5th edition starter set was $75 in 2010.
I mean. War hammer costs $100+ for 2 units and the rules are difficult for me (34m). So like... I absolutely do not expect kids to play this.
I know one kid (16) at the two stores I go to that plays Warhammer.
I started this past year at 34 lol
Prices, prices, prices
My first wargame was Heroscape
Could it also be something there are just too many games to choose from? As mentioned in a post every body seems to want to sell you something, and overcharge for a table at a games store. There`s a new games shop in my town, and it`s doing very well with lots of juniors players, mostly D&D type games.
Another reason that wargaming itself is just BORING?
OH YE OF LIL FAITH... FEAR NOT FOR THE RUG RATS THEY SHALL INHERIT THE MINIATURES.
cause parents can't afford it, and kids are stuck on the digital world
I can agree with such sentiment
Not true, all my friends and me are getting $800 lego star wars sets and all other kind of expensive collectibles. We just dont want to play warhammer. Rules change faster than our desire to learn new rules as this is not a game for casual players. The amount of learning and work and painting is not worth it to play a handful of games every year. Barrier to entry is too high. We actually went to a warhammer tournament and all people were excited to hear the lore, excited to see models and paintjobs, but they were visibly confused and suffering through the rules. I mean painting your figures and learning rules for a month just for most of your army to be obliterated during first turn shooting before you can even make a turn does not seem enjoyable. I can just start working or put my effort into something else.
Maybe the kids can't afford it too
@@WrathAmon1it is true to some point and I have gotten this from friends who run a gaming store and who are parents and they will tell you cost is a major sticking point, but not the only thing.
Can't afford it lol yet they can afford to buy iphones and ipads 😂 what's a stupid take
I think a new shift to indie skirmish games is making wargames more cheap and accessible. Some games only need like five bucks for rules, a teeny little table and about 4-6 minis to start or like 10 for two people.
That certainly has to help, but Warhammer still soaks up all of the attention unfortunately. I think many people take one look at the prices of Warhammer and assume that is all wargaming.
Things like SAGA and Bolt Action are very approachable. Bolt action you can play with 2 $30 boxes of figures (1 a side), a handful of dice and the rule book. SAGA is the same. I think Frostgrave is good for a similar reason.
@@LetsTalkTabletop yeah it sure does suck. I recently got into turnip 28 tho and that’s an absolute blast. Also point of entry is like £40 for a full army of forty guys.
@@LetsTalkTabletop What warhammer and GW also does. Is increase the prices of cheaper wargames. Since well. If wargamers pay that much for warhammer. We can also get away with more.
I've seen on Kickstarter some people are releasing rulesets with a full batch of STLs. Print Your Own mini wargaming is here boys
Okay, I’m 66, just to give you perspective. Cost is certainly an issue, but, as you said, that’s an issue for everyone, not just kids. I think it’s just a cultural/technological issue, more than anything else. When I was a kid, everyone played board games. Okay, not war games, things like monopoly and clue and risk. But the activity was there. Same with building models. Almost every boy built plastic models. Some just cars, but most did tanks and planes and ships as well. There just wasn’t much else to do other than watch 📺. But with phones and consoles and pc’s there’s just too many easier and less demanding sources if similar entertainment. Not many people ride horses anymore either.
I 100% agree with you. That certainly seems the case. Way too many things to distract us and split our attention.
good points!
To answer your two questions:
1) Children = None. If you asked me a decade ago, I would have said 15-20. The numbers are gone for reasons listed further below.
As for adults, I live in Minneapolis, which is nearly considered the mecca of all gaming. We have over 20 shops without even counting the greater metro area.
2) I started at 15. I saw the Rogue Trader book at my local comic shop, and that was the beginning of the end. Though I did collect D&D figs by Citadel/Partha/Foundry/etc. since I was 7. But that was just because I had $0.50 to $0.75 burning a hole in my pocket and I saw a cool fig I liked. Never painted until my mid 20's. Only ink washed the bare metal.
On the topic of the rest of the video:
Frostgrave and Deadzone are probably the best in class (price and time investment), while being criminally underrated for the rules they offer. These should be what the banner wavers direct noobs towards.
Game shops, however, are dying. Often by their own hand, because many try to charge for gaming space, which nullifies the entire premise of "Pay where you play" to be able to use their game space. If I am going to be charged for it, I may as well buy everything from amazon, and just stay home and game. Why should I buy a Warcry set and other assorted stuff for the game, only to be told I have to pay $10 every hour I game? They may as well tear out all gaming space and make it only retail, if the space is that precious.
Online shopping was already a problem, but quite a few game shops (at least here) are attempting to nickel and dime everything to death, turning their stores into microtransactions. To the point where I am opting out completely from the ecosystem.
Thus, the exposure is decreasing for more reasons than merely the ridiculous premium GW puts on their products (even though thats a huge reason too).
We are definitely regressing back to the before times, when hardcore wargamers were making their own rules and playing chit based games from companies like Avalon Hill, etc. during the 60's.
Dark times, but they also caused a complete paradigm shift, since folks like Arneson, Gygax, Ansell, etc. created weird wargames and basically the entire industry of miniatures as we know it today.
I feel the winds of change, and its name is 3d printing.
Bank on it.
Because GW sure as hell isn't.
And those who grasp this new thing will surely see GW under their heels.
heck even my local store(Not GW). That sells all the warhammer stuff. Tell people. To try out 3d printing. And even offers advice for it. Because they know even with 3d printing. People will buy some real models. Just to ad to it. And the barrier to entry is big. And they are also wargamers themselves.
I only paint, but I just got a set of Frostgrave minis and was pleasantly surprised at the level of detail. Also they're so much more modular than GW minis. Really impressed.
Word!
When have there ever been a lot of kids into wargaming? When I started as a teen (in the early 90s) I knew three other people around my age who were in to wargames. Most the wargamers I know today didn't actually get into it until their twenties or thirties (including some who flirted with GW in their teens, then stopped for a few years). They're also less likely to have started with GW (in fact a fair few came over from D&D and the like). For that matter, I have yet to meet a historical wargamer (well, outside of Bolt Action) that wasn't a greybeard, and I'm reasonably sure (okay, about 50/50 if I'm honest) they don't spring into being fully formed in their mid forties.
I think there's always been a bit of a split between those of us who came in early - usually via GW, and probably these days the licensed Star Wars or Marvel stuff - because we really wanted to play with big stompy robots or magical elves, and those who come in a bit later via an interest in history, or artistry, or just a hobby that doesn't involve screens.
I’m the grandfather of our wargaming group. I’m in my 70’s. I got into wargaming when my two sons were 10 and 12 respectively and wanted to play warhammer. That was 30 years ago. Needless to say we purchased 3 starter boxes and went from there. Now 4 of my grandsons are into warhammer and wargaming. So with us it is a generational hobby that we have come to enjoy as a family, and also with our local wargaming group. In fact, I have given several armies away to younger players who could not afford the initial cost!
That's a nice, wholesome story! Thanks for sharing! I love to hear families playing games together. I think it's good for their relationships.
GW's model is get a new player that can buy a big starter box, that person will then spend on paints and accessories over about 18 months then quit. Hence getting the most money up front. Its basically the life insurance sales model.
You hit the nail on the head. The cost of entry and the instant gratification of games really hurts getting the younger people starting. I don't know any Childern who play but I did start young. I was playing army men before high school
Well that is young!
It's not necessarily the instant gratification. It's more the engagement. It's harder to keep someone's attention when you're taking 45 fucking minutes to end your turn because you have a 100+ model army, than it is to play on a unit activation basis with 20-30 models each.
Back in the late '80 when I went to elementry school it was pretty common for boys to have a box filled with plastic soldiers/army men. At least in the place where I grew up. They would go pretty well with the die cast toy cars. Matchbox even made both.
Also board games where pretty common. So in 5th or 6th grade if you stumbled upon Space Crusade/Star Quest the transition was easy.
@@Dominik189 That only becomes an issue if you allready started wargaming and have a rather sizable army. Its also more or less 40k specific.
When you start you will play small games with the miniatures that you allready have. Which might only be a single squad that comes in one box. Even 40k with its archaic turn structure is quick when each player only has 10 minis. From there on it starts to grow and become slow.
The real problem IMHO is getting to this point in the first place. I fully agree that there is little appeal of the wargaming hobby for somebody who is not allready into it. Its not mainstream. There is little exposure. Kids do not play board games to the same extend as 30 years ago anymore. So the concept of rolling dice and game mechanics are not that familliar to them.
A major point IMHO is the decline of brick and mortar stores. In toy stores and especially the FLGS there would be lots of exposure to all sorts of games. The internet makes stuff for the hobby easily accessible BUT there is little exposure outside of what you know. Nobody really browses and online store like a real store. The social interaction also is missing. In a games store people can point out to you that GW products are hideously expensive and there are much more affordable alternatives. You also can see people playing games that you might not know about. All of that is more or less gone.
Since GW and 40k is the most present in the internet they have a massive advantage in exposure. The high price point will than scare young people away. If they like the style and lore they can easily and cheaply pick up a 40k theme computer game or app.
@@schnuersi true, all true.
Started at 13 with Rogue Trader in 89, got my son interested in wargames when he turned 17. Our LFGS is all adults with most in the mid 20 to mid 30s. The teenagers mostly play DnD or MTG. Price points are the biggest issue, my son has expressed concern for the cost bc I buy for him. We've also watched parents turn down their children after seeing the price of GW minis.
57 life time table top player all time favorite is Battletech! Still love it today. You can get started for as Low as $ 30 or invest in a starter box for $60 and you can play endless missions and go no further. Collect more books and units and bigger battles
AMEN! Battletech is one of my all-time favorites too, and you're right: you can get into the game for very little cost.
I couldn't agree more. Left GW to play Battletech. No regrets. Very complex rules though...kids wouldn't play it with me for that reason alone. Alpha strike maybe? But I've given up on bringing them in for now.
Hard agree. I'll add that it isn't just the budget that's keeping the next generation out of the hobby, when box stores becoming fewer and farther between there's no place to go as an entry point.
I think price and budget is the biggest reason of keeping young people out of wargaming.
@@TheSegert Didn't say it wasn't, its just isn't the only thing. Younger people these days are driving much less than previous generations. If your only game store is more than a town away, that's certainly a barrier. Meanwhile the competition (videogames) is just a click away.
I'm 51 and started playing AD&D in the 10th grade (1989) and started playing 40K when i was stationed at Ft Hood in 1994, our group runs from players in their early 60s (my older friends) to their early 20s (my son who's 23 and his friends). i think we have a different world now than when I/we were younger. computers and E-gaming is a big part of that. GW does not care about long-term players (the marshmallows) or the young players who are trying to learn to play (no gaming in their stores). they want the power gamer addicts and the starter army sales to people who want to try the game and they don't care if you keep playing because their "business model" already made the money off you that they had projected with your "buy-in"... i tell people to try other things OR buy used/knock off stuff for 40k and fantasy as you just cant afford this game at GW shelf price... and stay away from GW sanctioned tournaments as they are basically toxic cesspits of competitive asshats 🙂
Historical wargaming is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper, plus it gives people the opportunity to learn history and get a better understaning of the past, present and future; GW is just a big rip-off imho!
TBH its hard to beat GW on ease of play and variety.
historical is very...set... you can't try weird things and combos
For me the models of alternative games are not as good. I have been seduced by competitor models and even bought a few but when they are there in front of you their final form is not as obvious as it is with a GW model. You may have a unpainted GW model in front of you but the potential is obvious (to me at least). This is not so with competitor models, the proportions are off, or the sculps just don't sit well. This is IMHO...I have reduced my GW spend to almost nothing now and seeking out new models bhut the lure of GW is strong.
Bro i started in my laptop playing Warhammer 40k (dawn of war ) at 10 😂😂😂😂
If GW would drop prices and increase production to put their products into department stores such as Walmart and Target, that would fix a lot of the issues.
?? nonsense. 40K has seasonal miniature cycle. Units go to Legends.
@@JoseGabrielMattaGonzales a lot of products have seasonal cycles. It doesn’t put any limitations on mass distribution
@@aerofool66 i am talking about rules. I asume you play vanilla astartes.
Damn I’m 19 and I already feel like an old man
Shout out to gates if Antares, a lovely game by old Rick
Out of the dozen or so rule sets I play, Antares is still my favourite.
Enjoy being 19 while it lasts!
The problem is too much of the wargaming hobby (especially on TH-cam) is focused on nothing but Warhammer. Once you get away from that and find either smaller skirmish games for the low model count, or miniature agnostic games where you use whatever cheap mini's that are the right size and look like what they are, you get games that are much more friendly to new players.
You're 100% right. But unfortunately it's that snake eating its tail again, where Warhammer based videos get the most views so people make more Warhammer videos which of course expose more people to warhammer.
Nope, don't know any adults or children in my sphere that are war gamers (unless they simply don't talk about it). I was much older when I started.
I sense what you are talking about is perhaps gaming or games of war. Traditional wargaming is a very different beast which really trying to examine and test a hypothesis. It also seeks to explore history in depth if it is geared towards historical battles.
Great points in this video!
I’m a huge advocate for Mantic Games and the way they make (war) gaming accessible. But they capture a tiny proportion of the market compared to the big boy.
Started wargaming: 8 years old (1988) with my dad
Club mates ages: 25-65
Could name 1 Wargamer under 20, as someone’s son who played kings of war
Comic book industry is really a different beast here. Tbh comics just kind of suck now. There's a very real reason that the manga industry is blowing it out of the water.
I also think that too many folks conflate "Warhammer" and "Wargaming" two very different animals.
dont know any kids, and yeah probably know close to 100 adults. I started at 24 - but really it was only because i moved to UK - couldnt afford it in my country. Also got bad news for you : GW knows the hobby is sinking and they just accept it - milking the whales, more and more exclusive and collectible stuff, licensing to Amazon, comics, action figures and general merch - it will be less and less about games in games workshop....
I actually have the same feeling. I think they know that 3D printing is becoming more of a threat everyday and they're just milking it for all they can while they can.
People are losing face to face social skills in the digital world where you just communicate over a head set. Also, you have to like painting, scratch building and reading and my buddy finds it easier just to play video game versions of the game. He has no patience for the tabletop.
This is not my definition of wargaming. I wargame with flat cardboard squares with tiny roman legionnaires (or soldier divisions with numbers) painted on them. And those games are like 40 to 80 bucks a piece for everything (map, all the units, and LARGE rules booklets).
"Graphics don't matter, gameplay matters."
PRICING
Currently i think the price is the by far biggest issue. I would go as far as to say. If the prices where reduced. We wont have this problem anymore. Wargaming and warhammer in particulair. Gets a huge boost in popularity due to major games getting popular. Warhammer total war, Darktide, Space marine 2 is a big hyped game. So that gets many people in a hobby..... If it wasnt so expensive. I dont know the markup of games workshop. Cost vs profit. But im willing to bet tit is more than 60 percent of the price. Maybe even 80. So. If they halved all the prices on main GW stuff and cut 30 percent on forgeworld. They would probably still make a profit. And a gigantic ammount of people would enter the hobby. Like. Maybe even tripling it current player count.
That Is how crucial the pricing is in this discussion. And with hat 50 percent reduction. They would probably increase their overal profits extremely. The only problem i see. Is the production capacity. As GW. Has problems with that even currently. Or they are deliberly creating FOMO(Fear of missing out). But if it is production. This would probably make it very bad. BUT. It would increase profits overal.
Mainline plastic GW. Would be the mainstream stuff. Forgeworld would be the more expensive specialized stuff. That the older people enjoy.
HOW MANY YOUNG PEOPLE DOING WARGAMING IN MY AREA?
More than i thought. I know 2 to 3 kids under 16 that are very young that. Do build and play it. They have not coincidentally often parents that are also into wargaming. So that is factor. I know around 10 teenagers that are into wargaming. Many also like D and D. But well they are strapped for cash. so dont have huge armies. And play with what theyve got. Im a bit older. 28 years old. And i can afford some stuff. But for me... I have to make hard choices. Those chaos boxsets from a while back? I Wanted them. But couldnt. As i only had 250 euros. And i wanted both. I could not afford it. It would have costed me 360 euros. SO i chose not to get them. And not start a chaos army. And boxsets are the cheapest way to start. I could afford one. But nah it didnt feel as it was worth it.
No imagine how this is for younger people? With less money. Or parents. That also have less money. Since they have to stretch it more often. Then you see the effect of less young people getting into the hobby. However overal. I think there are more people in the hobby. Henry Cavill made it populair. The popular games we have. Do also give it a publicity boost. So overal there are more people. The biggest thing is the price. That is the biggest sole barrier to entry.
WHEN DID I GET INTO THE HOBBY?
I live in a medium sized city in a province of the netherlands. When i was around 8-10 i had friends. That where a bit older than me. That played MESBG. And i got invited to use one of their armies to play in a tournament. In 2006 was this or so? This happened a few times. They had Rohan, Gondor, Elves(lothlorien?), Isengard and mordor. I loved the isengard army as they had 2 metal isengard trolls. I love to play with them. But during these tournaments. There where other tournaments and games played. I saw 40k. Armies with tyrannids with lots of carnifexes. Love the look on those. necrons. One had a monolith that he lovelingly called the slot machine. And i saw warhammer fantasy. Empire, Wood elves. And i was interested in those. This planted the seed later. When i got money to start collecting these models.
Back in those days. A squad cost around 25 euros. And a hero or a character 5 to 10. It was even expensive back then for me. But that was because i was from a poor family. 25 euros was a lot back then for me. Now 25... Is cheap. I got a more money. My friends where decently well off still working class. But they got spending money. I had a sole mom. That was from a foreign country and was on goverment benifits. And she had to stretch the money with 3 kids. Without a working partner. She did a great job.
But that planted the seed of wargaming in me? Over the years it got more and more expensive. It was crazy. A squad can no cost as much as 45 or 50 and for Horus heresy even 60. And with less models. So yeah.
The barrier to entry these days is steeper than ever. Because of the price. But the popularity of the francise is also bigger than ever. If GW wants more people into to hobby to sell to. Slash the prices in half. And all the shelves will probably be empty in a few days.
Only adults over 25, no kids I know of. Got introduced between 8 and 11 can't remember exactly
Wargame companies need to me more sets and kits that are less expensive and easier to assemble for the new folks.
It’s a lot more expensive to get into war gaming and the PC war gaming and RPG experience is a lot better than it was when we were younger. We now have games like total war Warhammer and Balders gate 3. When I was younger the best PC game was age of empires. Best way to get into Warhammer is to buy 3rd party miniatures, get the rules online for free and then learn to play and paint that way. I am getting into the old world and I am starting with a 1250pt army and will not go to a 2000pt army until I’ve had a few solid games in.
There are some nice games around you can start with a few minis.
I recommend Warlord´s "Achtung! Panzer" which needed only 2-3 Tanks per side and comes at the same scale as Bolt Action. Or Tank Wars, which is the tank skirmish for Bolt Action, I would recommend 4-7 tanks per side. One could start with a these and later paint the infantry for Bolt Action.
We also need to step down from the high painting standards Games Workshop has set in the gaming world. It really frustrates new players when they buy expensive minis and mess them up.
I can tell you that we are not a dying breed. I am 13 and i started warhammer two months ago. I managed to get three friends to start with it too. But that might be because i live in a rich country (sweden) and therefore kids get higher allowance here. But the recent price increase still hurts ALOT. anything worth 450 crowns jumped up to 490 crowns, which is about 5-6 dollars i believe. So it is much harder to justify this hobby to my parents lol.
You nailed it with the choices (digital) available today. We had very little and made up rules for green and brown army men "wargames". We also had an 8-Track player back then too!
The little tikes, are being priced out - simple.
That and the ever diminishing attention span ! ! !
I hear simliar things from musicans and in some sports (even politics knowing soem active local politicans).
"Clubs" or similar associations is not as natural a places as before for teenagers to spend their free time.
I started as teenager maninly because in school others played so we teached/inspired each other.
I want to add to this, that there is a patience that comes with most hands on hobbies. Sadly maybe the future generations that are primed on dopamine games and tablets won’t even be able to find it engaging enough. I worry what this jump into the digital world with out fully thinking will lead to travesties similar to those we are now addressing of the Industrial Revolution growth; but these maybe more in sociology form and loss of so many arts and skills. Maybe we won’t even notice as there won’t be a comparative, similar how we romanticize medieval times but in reality have no real day to day concept of how it really was.
While this is mostly true and I do agree, I think we'll find them preferring to slow down and take a step back from the psychic assault that being constantly plugged into the digital world brings. The ones seeking peace may find some of it in the hobby. After all, gardening, home renovation, cooking - sure, all live giving pursuits, but creative expressions stemming from aesthetic preferences, all the same.
This is a topic that comes around as regular as clockwork, it has been prevalent in the hobby since I began back in 1986. It was a constant question asked in the magazines of the time and is still being asked forty years later just in different formats. Kids had other distractions then, and yet some of them still wargamed, same as today. I recently went to the Partizan and Salute shows and the amount of kids there with their parents was incredibly encouraging. However, wargaming is naturally something that attracts older people, due to things you mentioned, more disposable income, more time, more patience, etc. So, as the older wargamers pass away new ones join the ranks, just in their adulthood, rather than as kids. It is a perpetual cycle and if the two recent shows were anything to go by the hobby is as healthy and active as it ever has been.
I'm sure what you're saying is true, but we also don't live in a vacuum. Times can change and past results are no indicator of future gains, as the stock market says. Never before have we had so much to occupy young people's time that was free and cheap and easy. I don't think it's the same scenario as it has been in yesteryear. I guess we will have to see! I'm not saying the children aren't in it at all, I'm just saying if you look at the comment section the vast majority of us got into it as a teenager and the vast majority of us don't know any teenagers who play.
@@LetsTalkTabletop at our club this week were two teenagers playing Chain of Command. I know that's anecdotal, but kids have huge barriers in front of them when getting into wargaming, so in order for kids to get into it need adults to guide them. You mentioned your kids friends are interested in your models, have them play a game, organise a painting and modelling session at your place or even the FLGS. I'm not putting the onus on you, I'm merely pointing here that there are things we as the older crowd can do to encourage youngsters into the hobby.
I don't know if you missed it or not, but in my video I said that I run a Warhammer club at the local library for teens. You're right, it does lower the barrier for entry when veterans help out the new guys.
@@LetsTalkTabletop apologies, you did indeed. How about suggesting to the Warhammer kids that they might want to try something else one week? Something with a lower barrier for entry and to introduce them to the wider world of gaming? You may already do this, but if you've got a captive audience already...
It's a good idea, but they haven't been interested in trying anything else yet. They are new to it and still excited about it. I will though!
as long as you don't support GW and their horrible fomo and constant price hikes...
Look at the cost of entry into wargaming or even D&D.
Offer cheap sets that young people can afford.
We just gotta wait until holodecks are invented then we’ll never run out of games to play
Excellent video! I have been war gaming since the 70’s- it’s always been a hobby for “older people “ (mostly older men) - it’s like collecting cars- young people can’t afford to do it ( they have neither time nor money) older people have both time and money- just wait-children Role players will mature into table top war gamers- the hobby has been “dying” since its creation
Thanks! I'm not sure I agree with you though, if you read the comments in this video I was pretty much spot on with my assumption. Most people started wargaming in their teens and they are in their 30s or 40s now, and most of them don't know any teenagers or just a handful. There's definitely been a dynamic change. It might be societal, or technological, or economic, but there's definitely a change from the '80s and '90s. I do know what you mean though, people cry that the sky is falling all the time. But I think there's a little more to this.
Yeah it is the way. This is a time consuming thing and kids don’t have the money or patience to do it.
I started wargaming in my 40s. I don't know any kids, like, at all.
Not really on topic but..... Comics never costed as much as a dollar in the 70's. 10c 20c 30c type range.
Great video, It is not just wargaming that is dying because of the cost and the digital age, I went with my Dad to a model Railway show in Scotland not long ago it was packed with people, I am in my 50s and I felt like I was the youngest person in the room the new generation of kids are just not interested.
Thanks for watching! Yeah, I think model trains are ahead of the curve on the aging of their population. When I think about it, I feel like that is the ultimate luxury hobby. You need a ton of room to set up your train, a ton of time to buy and build all of that stuff, and then a ton of patients and solitude to use it. I see exactly what you're saying.
Here's the real question:
How many shop windows in your town are showing miniatures / tabletop wargames?
Bet you in 99% of places it's zero.
In big cities there'll actually be some (slightly more than zero), cause it's literally Warhammer shops, so they'll have some minis on display.
Other than that, forget it.
The hobby's dead.
(And it's been this way since a bunch of years before covid.)
In the game Infinity by Corvus Belli, the Action Packs typically focus on providing a selection of specialized units that emphasize tactical versatility and individual capabilities, rather than a cohesive, large-scale army like those seen in Warhammer 40k's Combat Patrols. For instance, while a Combat Patrol in Warhammer 40k might include a balanced mix of units like 10 Space Marines, a Dreadnought, and a tank, providing a clear battlefield role distribution, Infinity's Action Packs are more about creating a team of elite operatives with distinct roles and abilities.
Infinity's gameplay revolves around smaller, more intricate skirmishes where each unit's role and positioning are critical. Therefore, Action Packs often include a mix of different troop types, specialists, and support units designed to perform in specific scenarios, rather than forming a generalized force capable of handling various threats like a Warhammer 40k Combat Patrol. This reflects Infinity's emphasis on tactical depth, where each unit is a crucial component of a finely tuned strategy, rather than just one part of a larger war machine.
I got into it at 14 my school had a 40k club at lunch times, i'm now 39. I mainly collect now as i have a family, i tried getting my sons into it but they have no interest.
I was 14 when my friend introduced me to Warhammer
I had to give up on GW with the costs going through the roof. Now I play Battletech. It's been a lot cheaper but the rules are still very complicated. I also started playing COIN games using cardboard chits and paper boards l, so not very expensive. But again, very complex rule sets. I wish I could point to a game that has a simple ruleset and 3d printable models and/or standees to keep prices down. And maybe a free army builder app.
I started wargaming in my late teens (needed a job). My lids will play battletech with me but rately. Other than that I dont see any young people playing.
I just released my new rules adaptation for brutality called brutal epic. It is customizable Mech battles in 6 mm. Check it out if you're interested! www.brutalityskirmishwargame.com
15 or so, did my first mail order to GW, collected grenedier minis, rest from airfix,matchbox,and eschi and started making my own, peaked around 20 but declined after 30, more watching than doing it. I was playing my own games younger with Britains using ruler and rubberbands and the artillery which fired matchsticks when lost plastic ammo
Yeah theyr'e (GW) certainly not thinking about who's going to be their customers in 20 years.
Maybe that's what being a shortsighted profit seeking company means though. Its all about jam today.
100%
Great topic! My work is to teach kids to paint and play with miniatures. And I see a lot of the same problems. Actually Warhammer is a bad gateway game for wargaming. It’s not just the price point but the rules too. yet it’s the biggest and the one brand everyone have heard of.. I wonder why Star Wars legion and marvel crisis protocol isn’t bigger to the younger audience? They already know the IP.
At my work I have focused on One page rule. The rule set is really good and easy to learn and it’s fun for adults too. My son how is 5 years old and my we are playing it, and he understands the rules after to games!
Yeah, I'm surprised about marvel and Star wars as well. I don't know why younger people don't flock to that more for the IP alone.
Simple fact is sci-fi and fantasy are more fun. Whereas Historical war gaming is harder and less cool… WH is not regular war gaming….🤷🏻♂️.
THIS. You can customise and make it yours. Historical will never be "yours"
Hey! I have been trying to get my friends into wargaming and noticed a couple of difficulties. Might explain a few things. This hobby takes a lot of space, and not a lot of people can afford this space. After moving appartments i dont have a pile of shame anymore, just because i have no space for it. Skirmish games are great, i love space weirdos and my friends are enjoying it, yet lack of lore can be a double edged sword. Sure you can come up with your own lore, but it's nice to have a general vibe. Turnip28 is doing a lot in this, but it is very nieche. The last point is figuring out what this hobby is about. There is a lot of aspects to it, but what i've seen is that great lore and ability to express yourself in play are way more rewarding, than any kind of hardcore simulation. This would necesitate lighter and looser rules, but that would surely make it harder to play against people that you dont know, like in clubs.
Have you checked out Brutality Skirmish Wargame? You stat your own models out using the character creation system. Any genre or model range, and lore that supports it.
So many negative societal factors impacting wargaming. Hell, it's killing off boardgaming. I believe were people and parents not so stressed out, we would see a lot more kids doing wargaming stuff. I don't think it's a lack of interest, it's more the time it takes and the cost. You can't tell me a boy who sees a decently painted army isn't going to go, wooooooah cool. It's the painting, and prohibitive and complex rules which can turn kids and parents off. However, you can find some great war game kids stuff out there. Yet, as said, that also takes time and if you are entry level, where would you go?
Meanwhile, you have a trillion free mobile games in your pocket. Even if they suck, they are way more enticing.
IMO: Boxed starter sets are the future of the hobby and it's something that GW fails to deliver in recent times because of greed i guess. There is always something missing in the recent releases, like terrain (big one), rulers or balanced armies (looking at you leviathan box). Even if they have a starter box like for kill team it's kinda shitty (terrain missing as well) - most of the time you will need to get something else, just to play the game. Corvus Belli has great starter boxes with a decent price that have everything in them. Halo Flashpoint from mantic presents itself more as a board game but it has everything as well. GW just misses out on parents buying their kids a one and done set.
Very good points! Even if the rest of the hobby were more expensive, affordable starter sets would get children in the door.
Damn I think I’m the whale, spending big on TOW miniatures now I have all that big kid money (I’m 43)
Well, in the end you should do whatever makes you happy. But many of us have finally reached the point where we're not willing to pay the prices.
Haha, comic books for 5-6 bucks... There is almost nothing below 10 anymore where I live.
WHAT?! That's insane!
Im 30 at moment never had money to spend on a wargamer army or anything. or the space. Also where i life it aint realy a thing people play or host matches. I do remember there being a shop you could buy 40K warhammer things back in the day but it didnt work here in NL that was in city of Den Bosch but im realy talking years ago when i was a child. I do believe there is some underground warhammer events in NL or war time but eh yeah the reason i mostly didnt get in this hobby is money wise. I do enjoy watching content about it but im like a flower on the wall person if comes to warhammer stuf. i love some of it but even for me its not realy affordebale with my income. Do like a lot of the Orc stuf or watching people kit bash things together. But yeah i probaly have some more reasons if i think about it. I have looked into Bottle Action might be my best alternative to make something as a wargame with ather hobby i have.
And you should also take a look at Solo gaming. Or possibly gaming online via tabletop simulator. If you played on tabletop simulator you could play any of these games for free and there are meetup groups that would play you online.
No the smarter and less lazy of us are 3d printing and don't need hobby shops anymore and we don't need the common player base either the wargamers who are decent individuals who appreciate the hobby and fun are still around we just refuse to include any cry babies and people that want to argue over foot print rulings for a desperate shooting phase etc and we don't include tournament based players unless they want to accept fair equivilent rules for inclusion one we abolished was having fully painted miniatures to participate. Nothing kills our hobby anymore the players with bad attitudes are just learning there never was a place for them.
Yeah, I know from personal experience that the more and more casual I become the less I want to play random people. Because there's a lot of bad players out there that are hyper competitive and take the game too seriously. I have always been a casual player, but I used to wonder why they were such insular little groups of players that did not interact with the greater community, but in recent years I understand more and more.
I’m 49. I’ve grandfathered my sons(17 and 15) into miniature gaming. The older one is all in, the younger is more casual, but he enjoys it.
It's a greater macro trend tbh more than it is about money. Like kids don't play in-person really anymore. A lot of outdoor activities are basically free (like just biking around or street hockey, etc.) and there are almost no kids around do that stuff. It's not useful to talk about prices from the 90's or earlier either because those conditions are not in place today. While I don't really like the cost, I cannot say it's the main driver behind why recruitment for 18 and under is very low.
Yeah I do think some of it is cultural change. Especially with technology. Almost nobody hangs out in person anymore, and I'm sure it's even more so for children.
@@LetsTalkTabletop yes agreed.
I still argue that warhammer is cheaper than magic the gathering. In warhammer once you complete an army you only need to buy a new box like once a year to keep up. In magic you need to keep buying to keep up. Magic is 50 dollars to start but thousands to be competitive. Warhammer is about a thousands dollars to start but like 150 dollars(based on my splitting the skaventide box) once in awhile for new rules and units.
Of course you could say one is cheaper than the other, but if they're both overpriced then where are we? Magic charges exorbitant prices for little pieces of cardboard which are infinitely easier and cheaper to produce than miniatures.
@@LetsTalkTabletop So basically both screws us but maybe GW screws us a little less.
Yeah, pretty much.
For me, the wargaming seed was planted when I was a kid. I bought a few GW models, but never really understood the concept of codexes, etc. There was no real internet back then and I didn't have anyone to explain how the game worked so the models just sat in my closet. I didn't really get into it until my early 30s. And then I started a TH-cam channel to offset the cost of it lol
I didn't get into wargaming until my late 30's. Kids are more into video games. Video games are a great way to get people into war gaming. I learned about Warhammer through video games as well. Ravaged Star made over a million dollars on Gamefound this year so I don't think wargaming is going anywhere. It's more popular in EU than America as well.
I just got into Star Wars Legion and the entry price is not bad at all
I agree with you, the boxes are much better priced than games workshop.
Got into minipainting at 35, have yet to play a game yet, only have done a few dnd one shots because of a gm capable coworker. It's not a cheap hobby, my vr gaming set up was cheaper than my mini addiction. I know 0 children and 0 adults into wargaming.
That's funny, but at least you hopefully found something you enjoy
This is purely from a male perspective. I'm a bloke so what should you expect?
Personally, the last 20+ years have only seen improvements in wargaming. From my early teens trying warhammer, to my mid 20s navigating historicals and all sorts of wargaming stuff alone. Trying clubs and being 'shunned' by all my mates who were too cool, then anyway.
Now in our mid 30s most of my (same) friends now regularly wargame, roleplay and play board games along with their partners. There are about a dozen wargames clubs within 10 miles of me, that I know of.
We've got kids now and I regularly play 'wargames' with my 5 year old daughter. We set up a table together, populate it with minis and then make up whatever rules we like that allow her to roll as many dice as she can physically hold. Several of my friends are starting to do the same.
I personally don't see wargaming itself as a kids thing anyway. The hobby relies more on knowledge of the real world, where passions and interests have grown over time. Hence , why many don't get into historicals until a bit later. What 12 year old is interested in the Punic Wars and which 60 year old isn't? I genuinely believe that the compulsion to collect toy soldiers is formed from a combination of trying to regain an element of control back into ones life and also being able to expand an interest (be it history,pop culture or whatever) into a physical space.
Then theres the whole male loneliness aspect that often gets overlooked. We tend to expel and lose friendships far quicker and easier than we make them, and we're pretty terrible at maintaining friendships. Wargaming allows us an additional lifeline to oppose our natural tendecy towards isolation and a solitary existance. Perhaps bleak but true.
So, as I said at the beginning, the hobby seems very healthy. Its just that kids playing isn't a healthy metric to check against. I'm guessing its the late 20s when the true gamers emerge.
Anyway, theres my thoughts 😆
Well put! Thanks for commenting. I agree 100% on the loneliness part. But I'm still concerned about the young player portion. If you check the comment section, probably 80% of the people who replied began as a teenager and those same people don't know any teenagers who play. Obviously that's not perfect data, but it's still alarming.
@LetsTalkTabletop i'd argue that the elephant in the room is the reevaluation of the relationship and interactions between the two age groups. 20 years ago there weren't many concerns raised about men over 30 interacting with teenagers . Now, that relationship has far more scrtiny and even a certain level of stigma attached to it, for better and worse. The teenagers likely aren't playing games outside of family or close friends, hence reduced visibility. They'll likely emerge in their mid-late 20s as family ties weaken and friends drift.
As for comments of cost. Wargaming has always been expensive. Accounting for inflation and relative values GW prices aren't actually that much different in their pricing from 20 years ago. Perhaps we register their price changes more than say, the price of food, because they're more luxury item than necessity.
I got in at 12yo. If we look at lifetime numbers I knew about 30 wargamers, 2 of them encouraging their sons to play. This hobby will only shrink as time goes by, but don't worry about companies too much- they will create FOMO and make addicted fans buy.
Oh, I'm certainly not worried about games workshop. LOL. I like their games okay, but they have seriously predatory pricing schemes which I don't appreciate.
They believe that they make a premium product for people with money. Just as you said 30-55yo so employed with regular income. GW doesn't care for price sensitive people. One more thing - you mentioned comic books. We must differentiate between types. Manga will be fine for many years to come. I think that TPB of most popular superhero comics like Spider or Batman will survive a long time in paper form too. As for miniatures Lego continues to be popular amongst kids and teens, maybe prepainted miniature skirmishes will be the product for new generation?
I got started at 11. I know a couple of dozen wargamers aged 30 plus, and two children who play. One of those children is my son, but he has a fairly active club at his school playing mostly 40k and Age of Sigmar.
Me, and my friend group are a bunch of Zoomers, older Zoomers mind you, mid 20s. Some of us started as teens, I started at 20. Funnily enough, this video popped into my recommended the day my mates and I just did a 40K tournament, our first for most of us.
I'm also super excited for Halo Flashpoint coming out towards the end of this year.
The practicaly only games played here are GW games. An avarge proper army costs what an adult makes in a month. So the cost is one barier. The other barier is what the armies are made of 6+ vehicles , in extrem situations 9 or even 12. Those are not kids friendly armies to have. Then there are the games rules. Easy if you played the last 20-30 years, no so much if you are starting.
Then there is the whole balance thing. Now veteran players can say that the game is most balanced now , then it ever was. Thing is the new player doesn't care that in 7th ed the game was worse. They care what is now , and a new player can't use (especialy as a kid) the veteran trick of if X is unfun , l will just play Y . Because the new player , at best, will just have X. Finaly it is the turn over of armies, kind of a linked to the thing l mentioned before. Not even an adult wants to be told that the army they just collected became illegal or bad for anywhere between a few years to forever. GW games have a few months windows, where the player has to buyb, paint and then get as much fun playing his army , ax ut is possible, because the next time it will be fun could be in 3-6 years. And telling some 14y old that he will now have to wait 3-6 years to have fun is asking A LOT from him. That is why in stores in my country most players are end 20s mid 30s , with a chunky group of 40 year olds and exactly 0 teens , never mind kids
A well thought out answer.
@@LetsTalkTabletop sorry for the bad english and auto correct making it worse. In the end for us her the game is too complicated and too expensive for kids. Asking mom to get 5$ so you can buy 4 metal models , so in 4-5 weeks you have a unit is one thing . Asking mom for 100$ for a starter set is way beyond that. Especialy in places where a good job is 500$ plus
I've been saying this for years, it's just too expensive for the younger generation to get into.
The local scene is late teens/early 20's and above. The local club here has no one under the age of 30...
I'm starting to move away from mass battle games as the cost and time to construct an army is getting hard to justify. Skirmish games seem a heap more appealing to me at the moment.
I will keep the large armies I have but I have zero plans to buy into another mass battle game in the foreseeable future.
It would make my day if you checked out Brutality Skirmish Wargame. There is a free version of the rules on the Facebook group if you'd like to check out the rules before any purchases. It's model and genre agnostic with the lore supporting that.
@@LetsTalkTabletop I will check it out.
Been hearing this for decades. GW wont be popular with younger people, but there are plenty of other games to dive into. Lots of games with a Rulebook and force around $100.
Yes, but unfortunately Warhammer takes all of the spotlight. My fear is that new people see the prices of Warhammer and assume it's that way for all war games.
@@LetsTalkTabletop if ypu go to any con, there are alternatives. In out figs, we play small publisher games and dead games. I just got a coworker into mini.gaming and he is in his 30's. First game, heavy gear.
My grandfather painted and recreated civil war battles. when i was 8 and showed me how to paint the models. i sucked and he did not play games. he just recreated the battle fields. i was a preteen in the 80s when i got into AD&D, a friend of my father gave me several chainmail rule books. then i discovered gw fantasy battles and rogue trader.
I have seen 2 teenagers in the last 10 years. my own son who is now 26 has no interest. and he says its a price point issue. and i cannot blame him with the price ranges of gw stuff. but you are correct, a video game is what 60 and some of them last for a while and has loads of replay. why spend a thousand on an army you may not like once you can actually play it.
I was ten and collected Airfix toy soldiers.
im 22 got into hobby this year also in our hobby store we have discord where only young people are invited, there is 50 of us.
What does young people mean? How many of them are under 18?
@@LetsTalkTabletop young 15-30
Around 10 of them are 15-18
It’s because it’s unbelievably expensive and literally a waste of money? Bolt action and such just will never be as big as 40k they need the people coming in the store for the bigger games, but nobody wants the bigger games because the complete and utter greed that azmodee and GW have shown. Only in 40k can you buy premium books, and figures and then the next edition they’re useless. You can still use MTG and Pokémon cards from the 90s in formats, but models you bought 5 years ago, no longer belong in your army for this new edition, and there is no format or store location that supports your old rules. On top of the fact GW will sell all that old stock at full price, then turn around and say “yeah that book is useless if you wanna play here.” And then peoples unwillingness to use your damn wallets. You didn’t stop buying when they got rid of their third party art community, didn’t stop buying when they refused to produce out of stock models and instead kept releasing new kits. Didn’t stop buying when they broke the promise of 9th being the last total edition change, released broken tenth one month after the last 9th codex came out literally making them all useless within a year of release for most of them, and y’all kept buying.
Perhaps THAT Is why wargaming is dying?
Well put! I think the list of crimes and greed that GW has performed is quite long. That's why I would much rather play smaller games from smaller companies or independent creators.
@@LetsTalkTabletop truth, at least with bolt action there’s what 3 editions or something? And you can play any basically and find someone ready to play. I’m not too familiar with other tabletop games I remember a guy telling me many reasons bolt action was better though.
With the top dogs having such a huge list of charges, I’m afraid it also effects the smaller the games unfortunately. Many of us have been here a long time and can feel when it’s right to look at other games like yourself, but new people are going to be drawn to that massive section, and see GW before anything else, be turned off and never look at a TTWG again. Others find it very hard to give it up even temporarily and GW just keeps coasting on that loyalty.
Exactly! I've heard many people say that this wargaming hobby is expensive, but that really isn't true. Warhammer is expensive. But there are dozens of other games where your $100 or $200 investment could last you decades. It's a shame that Warhammer has such a stranglehold on the table top gaming industry that it is used as the example for all War games. I have no doubt some people get turned off by the steep Warhammer prices and think all games are like that.
Im 18 and ive been playing battletech for pribably the past 3 years. Ive never net another person my age who plays. However ive net maybe 5 guys that play warhammer and heard about more that ive never met. The vast majority though have all been adults
Wow, your whole video is what I’ve been saying and what a few other gamers have been for years only to get shot down by a lot of the warhammer elites so I’ve glad you are getting this out there.
I guess I started out young I still play D&D which was of course the first rpg I ever played and still play but since then I’ve play soooo many others, I’ve always loved miniatures started with trains my first mini was a grenadier ninja 😄
I know of more adult war gamers (probably in the 30 to 40+ age range)
I don’t know of many or any younger wargamers
I know of more ttrpger’s from a wide range of ages.
Thanks for chiming in! So far everybody's responses have been mostly in line with what I thought. They don't know any children in the game, and most of them started in their younger years. There is a hardcore group of die hard Games Workshop Fanboys that will defend everything they do to the bitter end. Many people have made a personality out of being a Warhammer player.
@@LetsTalkTabletop I remember in the early 2000’s I was into warhammer and 40k, I had wanted to get my gaming group to play but that didn’t happen 🤷🏾♂️ and then I think that was when the year price increases started. After a year or so I told people I had to tap out with few gamers in my area at the time and the cost steadily climbing as much as I liked the minis there where plenty of other minis I could use for other games and minis I could paint that had a acceptable price. Even now I look at the price of some games and I get kinda ehhhh the price anxiety 🤷🏾♂️
Totally understandable. I have finally also reached that point with warhammer. Their prices are already ridiculous and they keep doing their annual price hikes