MS460 Phantom 85 Bike
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ส.ค. 2022
- Update on the Phantom85 piston swap with a MS460 piston, and checking out a true MS460 Hybrid motor from @mflbikes1870
Both motors are mounted on the Zeda Dawn V2.
MS460 piston swap details • Motorized Bikes Vs Aka...
MS460 Piston www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07...
PWK 21 Carburetor
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08...
PWK 21 Jets
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08...
MS460 Muffler
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09...
We upload motorized bike videos every week (sometimes more)!
FAQs:
Oil: 32:1, semi synthetic, random brands.
Gas: 87oct
Spark Plug: NGK B8HS (yd-100), NGK B6HS (pk80)
Parts: I buy mostly from Amazon.
Favorite Motor: Zeda (Firestorm) Triple 40
Favorite Carburetor: NT Speed
Favorite Bike For A Motor: Huffy Cranbrook
For motorized bike help, join the server / discord - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Good news for Phantom 85 builders I got a new cylinder head and piston because mine failed and when I say failed I mean in spectacular fashion the piston is in more than 20 pieces but the new cylinder I have has a different casting with a smaller intake the piston has smaller windows in it so it's less likely to break even though I will not be using that piston I will be using a non windowed Ms 460 piston from farmertec which is the same one that la hover used in his build
This information comes literally, at the prefect time! More details coming soon... Thank You!
@@LAHover I have a question if you can help. My Phantom 85 vibrates at high rpm severely. I would like to know what balanced bottom end engine I should buy to make my own. I would use my old Phantom head and piston but need to know what bottom to buy. I am done buying Phantom!
@@pascalolesen5187 hey, so it’s probably best that you balance your own crank… which you can find youtube videos in or ask members in la hovers discord server. For the vibrations, it could possibly be a motor mounting issue so definitely check that out. The phantom 85 motor is relatively fine, mines ran for monthssss, but it has to be rode in a specific way if you don’t wanna blow her up super super quick.
@@pascalolesen5187 keep your bottoms end, balance and true the crank, switch over to ms460 chainsaw and cylinder OR run the normal cylinder with the non window ms460 piston.
Where can I buy a crank stand to try and Tru my own cranks? I've owned the dial indicator and stand for yrs now
I just put together a nel lusso with a cheap Amazon kit, and for every question, every problem that I ran into, I came here. You've helped me more than you could ever imagine, thanks man.
I put one together too, did you have any problems with the chain hitting the tire?
Be careful you two. Nel Lusso frames are prone to excessive vibration and structural failure. Nasty frame under speed. My 2 cents.
@@superbro2097 Will happen if running anything over 2. Solution: add a skinny nut on axle(left) and offset it a bit. Will stop rubbing.
@@superbro2097 no but I definitely recommend using the chain tensioner
@@leonardarola I have definitely noticed the vibration😬
Every single owner of a Phantom on the Facebook Phantom 85 group that swapped out to an MS460 piston has not had a failure so far myself included.
Good to know! Thanks for the feedback.
I have pk80 n yd100 n so do my freinds we ride on cycle paths and road we use protective gear all the time as cars on the road always try to kill you as they just dont care about bicycles n motorised bicycles can do 30mph so being hit by a car or having backend spin out n face plant you in the dirt really hurts and can kill be safe all n have fun 😃👍
I had my first ride on my 4 stroke friction drive bike today. Felt good to finally get it running. I did break the pedal crank on my Bike Berry bike. Man the pot metal used in the bike was barely pot metal. Still feels good and I will put the other crank on tomorrow. I guess I hit about 30 mph and rode about 30 minuets on about 1 cup of gas. With the friction kits you need to start slowly and accelerate slowly to prevent tire wear. Now I know why you love the gas bikes. The feel of freedom with the wind in your hair .
I recently went down on a burgman an650 in a very similar way. The second I saw your approach I knew you were wiping out. I don't care how good of a rider you are there's very little you can do to save that.
Thank you for putting it out there to wear what makes you comfortable and safe. Rubber side down my friend.
I did the same😂 came at it way to wide way to quick with way to much lean in my turn so I went down quick af
Love your videos man, absolutely awesome! I haven't built a bike like this yet, but I do have a 1977 Lazer sport 50 that I restored and I can say that small engines I find very interesting! Keep up the good work on the videos man always interesting and informative!
Your doing great and the older you get the wiser you get...I wear knee pads too and would wear elbow pads if I could find a set I like. My bike is pretty quick and if something where to happen at 50+ I want the best chance I can have to not have road rash. If your trolls would ever have a bad case of road rash they would never put up a message like that. I wouldn't wish road rash on anyone, that I care about lol 😆 Ride safe enjoy Your Bike 🏍
So true... I haven't had any wipeouts on my bike , but on my CR... T boned a deer in 5th gear on a fire road. Lost all the skin on both forearms, cracked ribs and 5 days in the hospital 😭... That shit sucks
Seems to giddy up pretty good 👍 I would say from watching this video, performance seems more than adequate for my needs.
True a fell due to gravel and holes after heavy rain coming up behind a car he pulled hard brakes I had to pull brakes wheels locked up and I went down not a full on long slide but man did my left knee get messed up(road Rash and deep cut also) still healing all now
I'm filling in the transfers in the case for my phantom I don't know if it's going to be beneficial or not. I noticed that these are sensitive to ignition timing as well. Atleast mine is. Thanks for all you do for us Hover.!!
I really enjoy your videos you make you say it a lot and watch the one with the chainsaw bill and the phantom 85 I seen you make the little fall with the gravel and you were right you have people that always make comments about your riding gear they would do me the same way at one point and I blocked them keep making your videos there’s so muchHelp
Seeing this has me really amped to do mine now, I'm also quite jelly about this build. I want to start on mine now just gotta find time to finish my 50 so I can start my Franks.. and that whole "heavy set individuals" sounded like it was directed at me.... Hmmm lol.
Troll-- I am always worried for your hands cause you don't wear gloves, I get it wear what you want to make you feel safe. It just gets me nervous cause I know how feels when you don't have gloves and fall. Anyway just messing around but great video and thanks for making me jealous about your new hybrid build 😢😬😜
Gloves, good boots and long pants are the absolute bare minimum for riding anything with a motor. I see guys riding street bikes in shorts and it just makes me cringe knowing what’s going to happen if they lay that bike down on their leg.
They are strong pullers for sure. Not sure how well they will do on long rides yet but I have a good feeling about it.
Beautiful lady there. Thanks for the ride.
She's looking good
I love this engine.i. going to pick up my new one again in like 30 min hopefully this one will last at least until my warranty is up so I can switch the Piston
I'd wear a dang suit of armor if I could,and it'd be dented.Some people just have good luck.I'm Not that guy.I wear gloves as gravel sucks to pull out of your palms.Plus the flashy color makes people notice my hand signals as I prepare to turn.When I ride 5 miles,I'm lucky if 1 block worth is free of potholes here.Loose gravel,and broken pavement Are streets in Michigan.FYI,very 'informative'and I was entertained too.Happy Trails.
Great video bro love the bike build
I recently picked up a Stihl 044 cylinder and piston kit that uses a 10mm wrist pin. It's a 50mm bore which is nothing to write home about, but it looks like it'll work with a regular PK80 bottom end with the usual prep (filling transfers and original cylinder stud holes & drilling/tapping new ones to match the wider cylinder hole spacing).
They both sound like they run excellent 👍
Thank you for another great informative video. I am not in a position to purchase the higher end stuff featured in some of your videos right now but I will be and your videos are goiing to help me with my future decisions. Thanks for all the effort , time , and work that you do. Much appreciation and I hope you heal up fast. Road rash sucks, been down twice myself.
Thanks for your information and time.
awesome vid,, both bikes and motors are sick!!! Id like a 3rd gen Phantom sometime
I love the sound of these engines 😊
Bro your right about what you said in this video, but I just went ahead and put on a ms380 cylinder on the phantom bottom end. I know what you mean by practically because I use my bikes for transportation almost every day now since I learned about this builds. I notice that the ms380 build was way better than the phantom was. More power, more speed, and great low end with a 44t sprocket.
That is indeed a *braap* moment
When I ride I go out in a kevlar jacket, armoured gloves, a full face and often wear knee and elbow pads. One of by bikes had a fender fall off and jam the wheel and without my riding jacket I would've had nasty road rash all the way up my arm. These bikes go fast enough to really hurt, just a helmet isn't enough. It doesnt matter how good of a rider you are, there will always be an idiot in a car or a mechanical failure that can send you flying into a curb headfirst. I'm glad you wear your gear!
Motor forte 💪
7:18 daaaamn great bike, must be a lot of fun
dang son. that chainsaw freaking rips
HOW DID I MISS THIS VIDEO???
I totally understand why you wear knee pads and I think it’s a good idea. I’m only young so when I crash I don’t really get hurt and I’m more worried about if I broke the bike. Seems like if they put that piston and intake on from the start they wouldn’t have as many issues.
That will change when you turn 30. Enjoy your youth.
I had a big problem with the vr2 phantom initially with only being able to run on choke and poorly at that so i got a 1mm drill bit and bored the jet and had to lower the needle all the way runs fantastic now but was wondering if you have come across this before
Screw the trolls. Im still getting over my crash from around 3 months ago. I can do 25 girl push ups now, crashing hurts! Wear protection if you feel like it. I should be wearing a helmet but im kinda stupid.
Moterbike Mike here. I 100 percent agree with you.I can't stand tunnel vision when I have a helmet on.🇺🇲🇵🇷
Hey that’s a good idea! 😎 I feel like I read your mind now
BTW I respect your channel and I'm not into speed either but I know that build is lasting about a month now. It's running great and doesn't make all those noises that the phantom was making.
Haha you can hear the difference ❤
Tell me, is there any hope that my entry level BBR Angel fire will ever run half this good? I'd be happy to just get rid of the four stroking and make 5500 rpm. I am going to replace the jet next. That chain saw hybrid seams compitent and strong but the Phatom looked alot faster and higher reving. Thanks Man, your analysis and expalinations are a gold mine.
Just put together my phantom 85 kit that I ordered earlier this week for my cranbrook and less than a mile in on my break-in ride my engine blew up. Piston rings snagged on the right hand transfer port, destroyed the rings and piston and screwed up the bore :(
I think I’ll use an ms460 piston when I put a new motor in it
I have used stihl tools in the past, namely an fs110 brushcutter. Stihl tools last a long time, im pretty sure the one that i used was from the 90s and its been to hell and back. I think that ms460 saw hybrid oughta last forever assuming nothing fails in the bottom end. Cool bike!
I had a stihl fs85 brushcutter/ trimmer that I used for hours on end daily for my lawn business. It lasted over a decade!
Man, it sounds good.... What was your top speed you got while riding? Hope that its not a bother to ask questions... Tks for the videos brother....
Love it. I'll be starting on a 50mm saw build on a standard bottom end soon. Just down a drillpress at present lol .should be fun
440?
50mm is just enough to fit. I'm thinking the same
@@Matthew-wj8cm 54 fits yd
@@mflbikes1870 yes yes. The big bore ms460 or similar
@@mflbikes1870 well I have a 440 with a 10mm bearing, but I also have a 49mm iron bore that came gouged tho seems pretty thick walled. So I've bin meaning to hone out a full mm see what happens. Just don't have a piston for that one.
Thanks for this! One question, your muffler, does it have any type of baffles or anything on the inside, or is it basically an empty box? I made a similar build, with a $20 ms440 muffler from amazon, and mine is super loud, or a lot louder than I'd like, yet no leaks in the exhaust and using a proper exhaust gasket. Your's seems quite reasonable so I'm wondering what might be different.
I did pop mine open and if my memory is correct it had two chambers, but mostly empty.
It is indeed louder than my other bikes. I will likely weld up a crud flange so I can fit a silencer.
How is a radiator hose holding. After running my ms460 with a radiator hose the inside was slimy as well as black oil/gas like the fuel was eating the hose. Have you replaced it, if you have what did you replace it with
idk anything about fuel atomization, but I have an idea. Can you sleeve the inside of the radiator hose? maybe with aluminum foil?
What is the difference between the zeda 80 and yd100 just getting into researching motorised bikes and you seem to have good knowledge, thanks pal
Just wanting to know what kit you'd recommend to a newbie and bang for buck :)
The Hyway brand piston has slightly wider pin locations as well. It also comes with tapered rings that are steel instead of the cast iron ones the stock phantom comes with.
Just make sure it's not too wide. There is not much room between the intake and transfer ports. I have seen p85 cylinders soon bad there was literally no where for the gap to locate without hitting a port.
@@LAHover you so so right there. Some are simply impossible to fit through. I heard the ms460 chainsaw cylinder is better and they also make a big-bore ms460. It's a 54mm bore some bolt pattern and all.
Phantom was modeled after the MS460 and MS380, combined I think. It has the port map capped at a bit above 9000, never seen one rev past that. Again, they don't want you to die.
IM looking to build one of these in the future a *Beach cruiser OG style😏.* AS A NEWBIE, What size motor should I start with that would be user friendly, Easy to learn from, before I upgrade?
Are you using a 36 tooth sprocket?
Seems to get up to 30 mph real quick!
I'm ready to do a complete build w built in gas tank.
Still debating on a good performance motor and carburetor.
Informative videos
Drive safe
Are there any other piston options other than what you recommended that are compatible with the phantom?
Do you always overrev when clutching at high speed? Or is it just this particular engine? I quickly learned how to not do that but I only have a china 66 so it might be different
No, just poor timing on my part. I pull in the clutch when letting off the gas out of habit.
Maybe try the 110cc intake on the ms460 phantom? PZ20 piston port. Why not?
Is the Phantom louder or quieter woth the piston port? just a thought. I love the bars on the white dawn. I would like to put them on my screamin demon, link?
Sounded the same, you don't hear the reed tapping but that's about it.
Here are the bars, I'm using a lifted steam, also linked below.
Wald Steel Handlebar #803 5.25"... www.amazon.com/dp/B000EHYC8K?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
FOMTOR 25.4 stem 110mm 35 Degree... www.amazon.com/dp/B07L9X5ZQH?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
omg the set screw . thats why it started sliping after i replaced it
What’s the fastest you’ve gone since completing the engine?
Love the channel man. I have a quick question though. I just built a motorized bike on a Schwinn cruiser Frame and when I mounted it on the bike I put pieces of rubber in between the frame and motor mounts to reduce vibration. But I noticed the seat on the bike vibrates so much it makes the bike uncomfortable to ride for longer distances. You have any solutions that may solve this problem? Any help would be appreciated, thanks!
Rubber does not do much other than get in the way and cause alignment issues down the road. It might be running too rich. Rich motors vibrate allot. Try dropping the needle (raising the clip) in the carburetor 1 notch at a time and see if it helps
@@LAHover sounds good. It was running a little rich so I did raise the needle one notch already but it still is vibrating so I guess I’ll try raising it to the highest notch (it’s on the second to highest right now) and see if that helps. Thanks for the help man!
I would love too see you try pistons from a dirt bike like a yz85 cr85 rm85 or kx85 that would be cool of you got one of those too work they are designed for high rpm anyway
Hi! I'm from Quebec and my english is bad but did you try the Skyhawk engine?...if yes what did you think of?
I have not, but I have heard they are relatively good motors.
Could u make a video about tapping case bolts
Have you thought about running diamond fire spark plugs they are made for small engines and motorcycles
It's good 👍 enough.
Getting back into motorized bikes again getting black bike from motorized life bikes torn. Between two motors yd100 or bt100v2?😅😅😢
LA hover, i an waiting for 10 kits from the factory of ZTMOTO. What do you recommend i do to these engines, right in the door to make it reliable? As i plan on selling about 7 of them and have my 3 free after upgrades and my time??
I was kind of wondering what you used on the MS 460 cylinder to hold the hose to the intake???
Intake adaper
@LAhoverbikes I bought a knock off brand G2 reed valve but it doesn’t fit the carburetor port ? How did you do it?
Dremel by Chicago Electric from HF. Carbide grinding bits from Amazon and HF. Practice on junk cyl 1st. Then open up your g2 if you can
Hi, that motor looks so tiny in that frame. I am looking for a Macargi type frame for a 4 stroke build. Springer, the whole banana. & bravo, nice work.
Yes I was a dumbass on Saturday night it was a nice hot summer night thought I'm going to go for a ride in my shorts which I did exactly the same thing washed out on some gravel at the exactly same speed scraped my knee my other leg rested up against my pipe and I burnt it yes if I had pants and pads would be way better no one is dumb who wears safety equipment you're just dumb when you don't wear it like myself LOL have a great ride
Ouch! Glad it was a low speed one tho :)
And what PZ carburetor was you talking about
Hey, my phantom blew up after 400 miles unexpectedly this past weekend. When I pulled the jug the piston was gouged on the side and the bridge in between the two windows was cracked and broken. Bicycle engines. Com made good on the motor, I’ll be putting an aftermarket piston on for reliability…. But now the question is to window it or not? Thoughts?
I would suggest not windowing it
Maybe find a larger intake and a carb to suit.
I'd say run it without a window and see if you like it. If you do add a window make it a small one.
I broke my 49cc bicycle today the magnet cracked in half the one that spins around and it broke that little rod that's in there I don't know what it's called so I can't fix
I like the hibread motor can you send me info on how to get one I have fantom 85 v3 iam putting on felt faker thank you for all your good video and info Todd from mi
what would you say about using a banana pipe instead of the stock one?... any major difference?
I believe the banana pipes to be snake oil.
How do you get that rattle out
What kind of bars are those?
Man I’m stuck with Covid, I just wanna ride!
16:41 I have some Thor knee/shin guards & summer motorcycle gloves....Need to get a $35 Mongoose MTN bike helmet (lighter more breathable than motorcycle helmet) The 2 main pieces of protective gear you see motorcycle street stunt riders wear, is a helmet & gloves. I dunno why they don't also wear jackets & knee guards. I guess they're either crazy or it might restrict movement & interfere with tricks. When they wipe out at 40-50 mph they instinctively put their hands out & start to roll when they hit the pavement, trying to avoid sliding/road rash
For motorized bike help, feel free to join the Discord.
discord.gg/y3PXvrYUvb
ya, gotta go slow on corners with gravel. learned that one on a regular bike when i was a kid lol
Could you please link the NT speed?
Im years outta date on building. Where can i go to research and get caught up?
For questions about builds the discord server linked in the description can help. Other than that there is a flood of motorized bike video on TH-cam.
The new version 3 is out
What plug do you run with this setup?
BPM8Y
Nice bike 😅
You never said how it compares to the phantom on power ... which one is more power?? .. awesome video brother as always thanks again...
More pull out of the Saw build, but that might be the carb/intake... Not a big jump in power as they are similar in specs.
The Saw build runs allot better though, smoother cruising.
@@LAHover ok cool...so it probably is right on the same lines as the southern comfort CC and the DLH I'm thinking i mean with all of them just stock out of the box none ported... I know that one you just did was so smooth and clean sounding...iv got a CDH PK80 that iv ported and G2 Reed a PHBG 19mm carb a wc80 and a MZ65 clone and it's really strong on a 36t gear Cranbrook like your red one...it's really strong but it's do choppy when it's not under a load at low speed if it stay around 40 it's smooth but it used to be smooth everywhere until i made it really strong and it pulls really good at low speeds it's just choppy when it's not under a load and i hate that...lol...i put my real speed carb back on and it's alot smoother but still a little choppy nut not as bad...
@@LAHoverchainsaw motor sounds cooler, like a chainsaw 😊
can i still use the stock reed valve with that mas460 piston without windowing the ms 460 piston?
You can use a reed without a windowed piston yes. In my testing performance has never gone up without a reed.
That being said, I think the MS460 is designed for piston port and does not come with a reed anyways. I don't even know what reed system would fit.
sweet thanks man I'm going to give it a shot when I get the piston because your probably right about those piston ring gaps being too close to the ports, also my engine temp is like 450 to 500 degrees this seems WAYYYY too hot to me my other China doll ran around 250 280max someone told me it's because i have too much base gasket and when you remove one of those base gaskets to get a tighter squish it will make the motor run cooler. Is that true?@@LAHover
@@jarrodnielsen7547 I think the ring gap issue was only on the P85 V1 and V2.
Did not apply to the MS460 cylinder or P85 V3.
ohhh I see I'll have to take a look inside when I tear it down, I'm putting that motor on another bike anyways so I might as well look at it while I got the thing off@@LAHover
Hey hove do u feel any different I. Power?
Power is about the same. Saw Build runs better.
Duel spark head will reduce ur fuel issue
Imagine putting a pipe on the ms build...)
What does one have to do to the ms460 cylinder to put on the bottom end?
A lot
@@mflbikes1870 yeah I'm just not seeing that. All the info isn't out there because that would cause a lot of people to lose money 🤷
@@KB_Joys the info is definitely out there, you just need to look harder
The phantom 85 exists because builders were already doing it...
The information is not spoon fed to anyone because very few builders have the time AND energy to build them, film the process, and edit a video about it...
It a small hobby.
Personally I specialize in the plug and play kits. I attempted a minarelli hybrid and failed, so decided to let someone who knows what they are doing build it.
Bom
I'm going to stick with the zeda triple 40... Or the seutek triple 40...
Both are good reliable engines...!!!!
😛
everybody asks me "dont you feel hot in this"
or "are you on a long tour?"
i now dont reply them just smile and go on
What prices does mfl sell for?
Bought mine for $375.
They have newer one with narrow intake check their video out on TH-cam
Echo pistons and cylinders are the best, I dont know why people dont use them.
try an ms 660 jug with it, you'll be amazed
Needs a stroker crankshaft
Bro lol I get my 3rd 3rd gen phantom but I get it all together walk it to door heard a loud ass snap 1st shit I thought of was a ring sure enough take all apart and 2nd ring was broke 🤬🤨 bro wth man my kids been waiting a couple months for me to ride with em .300 dollar price I should have nps
The p85 is such a mess :(
Wonder if doubling gadgets on the jug cause ring snag........
It's possible, good call.
Why hybrid?
Reliability, smoother operation and similar performance to the phantom
indeed sir , i wear full riding gear despite the heat ,
I will sweat but i dont want bleed
full mesh riding motorcycle jacket , full mesh motorcycle mesh pants
cordura fabric , knox armor in the gear
half finger gloves and boots . Full gear or no ride
Id much rather have a 20mm carb on cuz the whole time ur bike is asking for more air witch makes it four stroke
Put any carb on it you like, saw jugs will almost always fourstroke when under light load.
@@LAHover good to know