Excellent video! This answers so many questions I had, and it's incredibly satisfying to finally hear the actual numbers after all of these years. I may throw my hat into the ring sometime later and try to get some bigger sample sizes for the pity system. It seems like there's something there, and considering how item lots already have a system for increasing drop chances with subsequent kills, something similar (albeit much less effective) for a pity system here wouldn't be too far out of left field. And thank you so much for the kind words, it means a lot!
this is a really well made video, and on a really interesting mechanic too. i came in thinking i had a vague idea how this worked but was proven very wrong lol. thanks for all the work that went into this, it was incredibly entertaining
I guess this might have been where Elden Ring's Flask recovery system was based on, and refined a bit from DS3's system. Its pretty cool to see people discover new things about the souls games, as I didnt know that the Estes recovery system from either games actually existed.
I always assumed the estus recovery was checkpoint-based. I gave myself the rough impression that I’d get estus refills at the same points in different playthroughs (maybe after defeating certain groups of enemies), but this makes a lot more sense.
Thank you for doing the work on this! It's really nice to know so much more about how this mechanic works now. Also you're really pretty! I'm glad you chose to use your webcam :3
The original description for the pity field is: HP/MPエスト回復抽選に外れた際の次回確率上昇値。分子の加算値。 Which as far as I can tell is pretty explicit that it should accumulate when you fail the lottery. Obviously that doesn't agree with your testing, but maybe it's just tuned poorly and the low-flasks bonus is a separate thing. Or it's just broken, wouldn't be the first time.
Honestly, the most likely outcome is that it's broken entirely, in my opinion. I didn't get enough samples to rule out luck as a factor for my tests, so it could just be straight up that it doesn't work at all lol.
I wish the game was explicit about this. On my first playthrough of DS3, I thought 4 estus charges was super low. Coming from DS1 and DS2, I expected some way to supplement my charges (like kindling in DS1 and lifegems in DS2). I played *super* cautiously in DS3 as a result. Whereas in ER and BB, the supplementary systems are explicit - ER gives you a tutorial popup about flask recovery, and in BB, extra blood vials are an item drop.
Being able to recover health by killing enemies is imo a really cool development in the series that is often overlooked. It's more obvious in Bloodborne, but even in DS3 I often had the situation that getting that one extra refill made the difference between reaching the best Bonfire or not. It makes exploration much more intense and allows the developer to build larger and more complex levels with higher enemy density.
I didn't really consider its parallels to bloodborne's rally at all, that's an interesting comparison. In that way, though, I feel like it's a continuation of an idea they had since the very beginning, continually refining ways to get more healing to make longer levels more viable. From infinite grass in Demon's Souls, to shortcuts and humanity in DS1, life gems in DS2, rallying, Estus recovery, and now tear recovery from groups. Unfortunately tear recovery doesn't really extend to legacy dungeons, where I'd argue it's most needed, but it does seem like they're refining an idea.
@@solarpellets oh, in bloodborne I was referring to blood vials, but yeah, rally definitely feeds into that as well. In the end it's still about rewarding the player for engaging with the combat.
@A.C_B. oh yeah, I forgot enemies drop vials in that game lol I guess I kind of fundamentally separate the mechanics in my mind, but effectively it is pretty similar.
Great video! Nice to see some deep dives into DS3’s mechanics. I mod DS3 and I did some testing myself of this pity estus stuff a while back so maybe what I found could be helpful. From what I could tell from my testing, the chance of the “pity” chance is -added- to the recovery chance of the next enemy you kill. It seemed like it was just the very next enemy so only adding once, though this was tough to verify so I’m not totally sure. It also seemed like the pity chance was added to the corresponding base chance (estus vs ashen vs both). Additionally, the next enemy killed also needed to be set up to reward estus, though they did not need to have any base chance themselves. There’s plenty of enemies with no estus recovery parameters set, so it’s likely a pity estus drop wouldn’t occur even if it technically would.
That makes a lot of sense, actually. Reminds me of the scuffed shiny odds in Pokemon Let's Go lol. I wonder how that would interact with the wolf, then, though. Also, is the missed recovery chance all that much? I can't imagine it's that significant, since all my tests were effectively at base odds.
I’m slightly embarrassed to admit this, but I somehow managed to platinum DS3 without ever being aware of this mechanic. I guess I’ll have to pay more attention on my next play through
Mechanic analysis and data collection is the collective effort of countless individuals, and I'm glad I got to learn something. It's interesting to compare it to the guaranteed chance for health flask refills in Elden Ring when all of a specific group of enemies is defeated. I wonder how average flasks regained varies for different DS3 sections, since that's probably what they measured in game testing.
super interesting. i played ds3 after elden ring, so everytime it happened i figured the enemy that gave me the refill was the last one from a group (even if i never really understood what the group was, or why it didn't happen consistently). great video! ps: love the claymore representation 💪
This is so cool and well explained! I had no idea how this even worked in comparison to DS1! Also, the blonde hair and yellow top pairs so cutely with the lemon profile picture c:
This is a really good video. My mind has been blown. I’ve played ds3 through about 10 times and never once noticed that I was getting my estus refilled. I thought I was a very observant person but now I learn that every time I’ve killed Hodrick he replenished 3 of my estus!! WTF.
I love watching videos about mechanics I don't know cause I haven't played ds1 but its by a youtuber I like so I'll try to follow along Edit: you're telling me your not just a lemon slice 😮
This was really informative, thank you! I never managed to figure out what caused the recovery when I was playing it, so...mystery solved! Also big thanks for actually describing your testing methodology--that will be really helpful for anybody who decides to pick up the torch and run more tests to figure out the remaining edge cases. I hope this info. makes it to the wikis!
If you asked me to name the best experience I've had playing DS3, it would undoubtedly be fighting a tough enemy/invader with zero Estus remaining, surviving by the skin of my teeth, and getting that sweet flask refill. The enemy placement had to be on point for this system to work as well as it does, which I think they excelled at! Also, you have a compliment on your voice from a co-worker of mine. "Lady's got a nice voice" were the words I have been given to pass along.
3:00 About the whole difference between DS3 and DS1, I actually like the approach of surprising the player, it gives me a thrill and a small rush of adrenaline whenever I'm startled or ambushed in DS3, it really shows to me how unforgiving the world of Dark Souls is. Though, a flaw can be seen with that approach, I do think that the overall level design was degraded since DS1, as it's a much more straight forward line. A peculiar thing I noticed, is that you can refer to DS3's area's as levels, showing that they're clearly meant to be played in a certain way, while you mostly see people refer to area's in DS1 as areas or places, showing how natural the world of DS1 feels compared to the later games, especially DS3.
This mechanic is so difficult to understand and rely only by playing that sometimes I just forgot about it's existence. Nice video and I liked the facecam for the different format of video!
Of course I know how it works i played this game countless times You kill a lot of enemies and as you kill enemies umbasa notices you have been cleansing the world of all these evil fiends and randomly drops in to reward you with an additional flask so that you may continue doing god's work UMBASA
doing a lot of co-op and pvp seeing a flask refill when an phantom died and seeing that same effect killing enemies i connected the dots fairly quickly at least i think
Very interesting mechanic. It does make me wonder if they changed it between ds3 and ER. Since in the latter it feels like you're hard-coded to get flask refills after defeating a group of enemies.
Yeah the system is definitely different in Elden ring and has more to do with set groups than random drops. It's actually a lot like other mechanics they changed when bringing them back in other games, like going from gravelording in DS1 to just more enemies in NG+ in DS2. Someone brought up that it'd be cool to have the same system in place for legacy dungeons, since they don't really have "groups" as such, but as far as I know that's not a thing at all.
I thought flask refills were guaranteed from all red phantoms. I would always recover 3 estus flasks from every red phantom i killed, so maybe i just got super lucky in that regard.
So the amount of estus regained is proportional to the amount of estus you’ve consumed, or something like that? Also, I’m pretty sure all invaders are 100% guaranteed to drop at least 2 flask refills for the host and 1 flask refill for any phantom or invader who is also in the world, this applying to npcs as well. I’ve gotten upwards of 3 estus refills at once from the Alva invasion before Irithyll dungeon before and I have footage of it.
I'm sorry to not make a comment about the video but I just wanted to say that you are STUNNING and that I hope I look half as good as you when I grow up!💜💜
My experience with DS3 recovery: When does it even happen? It's so rare it's almost never and doesn't help much. Elden Ring: Oh I just kill small groups of goblins and other easy enemies and get recovery after recovery. They totally nerfed it :)
Maybe I missed it if you said it, I'm sorry if that's the case, but if enemies have a chance to refill regular and Ashen Estus... does this mean it can refill one or the other? Or say it's 15% for both, can you also get lucky and have it refill both?
If the chance is specifically for both then they can only refill both. If they have a chance for either, they can refill both if you get lucky, but aren't guaranteed to, yeah.
I had no idea about this mechanic. And I've watched every Illusory Wall video ever. And many more than him, that's for sure 🤣 how did I miss this. I thought it had something broadly to do with amount of enemies killed. I figured maybe didn't enemies have different values towards that. I did not realize all of disss was going on under the hood 🤷 wondrous insight!!!!
I've always wondered how this mechanic worked! I have a question though, you mentioned a few NPC invaders that have a CHANCE to refill your flask, but don't all invaders (npcs and real players) guarantee a refill upon defeat? Or did i misunderstand something?
@@nepdisc3722 keep crying about having no friends or followers, a lot of us enjoy seeing her and you can scroll to another video easier than typing dumb crap like this
Its 2024 brotha, gonna have to start gettin used to it sometime. And its really not that hard to see they are presenting feminine. If you are asking what genitalia they have, youre the weird one.
What a waste of a video. We have known about this for a long time. It's tied to specific enemies, how does it feel to have wasted so much of your time. Go touch grass. Also, Please don't show your face, it's jarring.
Okay, Zachharrell7776 with no real identity or friends or followers or anything to hold yourself accountable for your hate, a lot of people (if you knew how to read as well as you flap your jaws) didn't actually know this info! There's no need to tell us you're into men by attacking women, we could already tell.
Excellent video! This answers so many questions I had, and it's incredibly satisfying to finally hear the actual numbers after all of these years.
I may throw my hat into the ring sometime later and try to get some bigger sample sizes for the pity system. It seems like there's something there, and considering how item lots already have a system for increasing drop chances with subsequent kills, something similar (albeit much less effective) for a pity system here wouldn't be too far out of left field.
And thank you so much for the kind words, it means a lot!
I like how "i don't know how to end this" is your official ending
collabing with illusory is so cool :o
cool explanations too
i noticed this mechanic, but never knew how it worked. thank you teaching me wise one
She solar on my pellet til i regen my estus
this is a really well made video, and on a really interesting mechanic too. i came in thinking i had a vague idea how this worked but was proven very wrong lol. thanks for all the work that went into this, it was incredibly entertaining
First time watching, (illusorywall sent me) and I gotta say, your voice is very soothing.
Have a good day!
:o facecam
i never knew this estus recovery thing existed
I didn't, either, for a long time, that's why I wanted to make a video about it in the first place
Always wondered this myself, excited to see you made a video on it
I guess this might have been where Elden Ring's Flask recovery system was based on, and refined a bit from DS3's system. Its pretty cool to see people discover new things about the souls games, as I didnt know that the Estes recovery system from either games actually existed.
I always assumed the estus recovery was checkpoint-based. I gave myself the rough impression that I’d get estus refills at the same points in different playthroughs (maybe after defeating certain groups of enemies), but this makes a lot more sense.
Thank you for doing the work on this! It's really nice to know so much more about how this mechanic works now.
Also you're really pretty! I'm glad you chose to use your webcam :3
The original description for the pity field is:
HP/MPエスト回復抽選に外れた際の次回確率上昇値。分子の加算値。
Which as far as I can tell is pretty explicit that it should accumulate when you fail the lottery.
Obviously that doesn't agree with your testing, but maybe it's just tuned poorly and the low-flasks bonus is a separate thing. Or it's just broken, wouldn't be the first time.
Honestly, the most likely outcome is that it's broken entirely, in my opinion. I didn't get enough samples to rule out luck as a factor for my tests, so it could just be straight up that it doesn't work at all lol.
I wish the game was explicit about this. On my first playthrough of DS3, I thought 4 estus charges was super low. Coming from DS1 and DS2, I expected some way to supplement my charges (like kindling in DS1 and lifegems in DS2). I played *super* cautiously in DS3 as a result. Whereas in ER and BB, the supplementary systems are explicit - ER gives you a tutorial popup about flask recovery, and in BB, extra blood vials are an item drop.
Great video, I never understood this mechanic before despite learning it as early as the curse-rotted greatwood and all the basic hollows in the arena
Being able to recover health by killing enemies is imo a really cool development in the series that is often overlooked. It's more obvious in Bloodborne, but even in DS3 I often had the situation that getting that one extra refill made the difference between reaching the best Bonfire or not. It makes exploration much more intense and allows the developer to build larger and more complex levels with higher enemy density.
I didn't really consider its parallels to bloodborne's rally at all, that's an interesting comparison. In that way, though, I feel like it's a continuation of an idea they had since the very beginning, continually refining ways to get more healing to make longer levels more viable. From infinite grass in Demon's Souls, to shortcuts and humanity in DS1, life gems in DS2, rallying, Estus recovery, and now tear recovery from groups. Unfortunately tear recovery doesn't really extend to legacy dungeons, where I'd argue it's most needed, but it does seem like they're refining an idea.
@@solarpellets oh, in bloodborne I was referring to blood vials, but yeah, rally definitely feeds into that as well. In the end it's still about rewarding the player for engaging with the combat.
@A.C_B. oh yeah, I forgot enemies drop vials in that game lol
I guess I kind of fundamentally separate the mechanics in my mind, but effectively it is pretty similar.
Great video! Nice to see some deep dives into DS3’s mechanics. I mod DS3 and I did some testing myself of this pity estus stuff a while back so maybe what I found could be helpful.
From what I could tell from my testing, the chance of the “pity” chance is -added- to the recovery chance of the next enemy you kill. It seemed like it was just the very next enemy so only adding once, though this was tough to verify so I’m not totally sure. It also seemed like the pity chance was added to the corresponding base chance (estus vs ashen vs both).
Additionally, the next enemy killed also needed to be set up to reward estus, though they did not need to have any base chance themselves. There’s plenty of enemies with no estus recovery parameters set, so it’s likely a pity estus drop wouldn’t occur even if it technically would.
That makes a lot of sense, actually. Reminds me of the scuffed shiny odds in Pokemon Let's Go lol. I wonder how that would interact with the wolf, then, though. Also, is the missed recovery chance all that much? I can't imagine it's that significant, since all my tests were effectively at base odds.
@@solarpellets Nothing has a missed recovery chance set up, so the pity system is effectively unused.
I’m slightly embarrassed to admit this, but I somehow managed to platinum DS3 without ever being aware of this mechanic. I guess I’ll have to pay more attention on my next play through
honestly if you’re running through you can get all endings without noticing it/ it happening, in my 600 hours i’ve seen it maybe twice?
That was some pure dedication testing over and over again. Kudos!
The jumpscare of the facecam 💀💀💀💀
Pretty women scare me, too
@@solarpelletsmore of the facecam please!
Mechanic analysis and data collection is the collective effort of countless individuals, and I'm glad I got to learn something. It's interesting to compare it to the guaranteed chance for health flask refills in Elden Ring when all of a specific group of enemies is defeated.
I wonder how average flasks regained varies for different DS3 sections, since that's probably what they measured in game testing.
super interesting. i played ds3 after elden ring, so everytime it happened i figured the enemy that gave me the refill was the last one from a group (even if i never really understood what the group was, or why it didn't happen consistently). great video!
ps: love the claymore representation 💪
watching this at night took a burned my eyes, the facecam transitions with the bright grey background have a very high contrast. just a minor critique
I wanted to set up a green screen but wasn't able to, unfortunately T_T
Next time I use face cam, that will definitely be set up
@@solarpellets i think there ar etools that can do it without a green screen try that. its a flat grey background after all a grey screen
@@Erksah02 I've tried, but the automatic ones don't work at all and my skin is too similar to the wall to use a chroma or color key lol
@@solarpellets hm unlucky i guess,
This is so cool and well explained! I had no idea how this even worked in comparison to DS1! Also, the blonde hair and yellow top pairs so cutely with the lemon profile picture c:
This is a really good video. My mind has been blown. I’ve played ds3 through about 10 times and never once noticed that I was getting my estus refilled.
I thought I was a very observant person but now I learn that every time I’ve killed Hodrick he replenished 3 of my estus!! WTF.
I love watching videos about mechanics I don't know cause I haven't played ds1 but its by a youtuber I like so I'll try to follow along
Edit: you're telling me your not just a lemon slice 😮
This was really informative, thank you! I never managed to figure out what caused the recovery when I was playing it, so...mystery solved! Also big thanks for actually describing your testing methodology--that will be really helpful for anybody who decides to pick up the torch and run more tests to figure out the remaining edge cases. I hope this info. makes it to the wikis!
Creighton with the text "This one's from Fandom" is such a great out of context image/text combo. This video rules
Not you looking at the script in the facecam segments 😭😭😭 (great video btw)
If you asked me to name the best experience I've had playing DS3, it would undoubtedly be fighting a tough enemy/invader with zero Estus remaining, surviving by the skin of my teeth, and getting that sweet flask refill. The enemy placement had to be on point for this system to work as well as it does, which I think they excelled at!
Also, you have a compliment on your voice from a co-worker of mine. "Lady's got a nice voice" were the words I have been given to pass along.
great video. I love deep dives into obscure dark souls mechanics
3:00 About the whole difference between DS3 and DS1, I actually like the approach of surprising the player, it gives me a thrill and a small rush of adrenaline whenever I'm startled or ambushed in DS3, it really shows to me how unforgiving the world of Dark Souls is. Though, a flaw can be seen with that approach, I do think that the overall level design was degraded since DS1, as it's a much more straight forward line. A peculiar thing I noticed, is that you can refer to DS3's area's as levels, showing that they're clearly meant to be played in a certain way, while you mostly see people refer to area's in DS1 as areas or places, showing how natural the world of DS1 feels compared to the later games, especially DS3.
Everytime I play DS3 I always notice that I tend to have one more Estus than I thought
Fuck yeah, I've wanted this video FOREVER!
Very informative video! Thank you for all the information.
This mechanic is so difficult to understand and rely only by playing that sometimes I just forgot about it's existence. Nice video and I liked the facecam for the different format of video!
Omfg I've literally always wondered about this but just casually accepted the "quirk" over the years 😂 you're a legend for this!
Of course I know how it works i played this game countless times
You kill a lot of enemies and as you kill enemies umbasa notices you have been cleansing the world of all these evil fiends and randomly drops in to reward you with an additional flask so that you may continue doing god's work UMBASA
Great video fam
great video , congrats!
Great video! Little suggestion: get a teleprompter so you are always facing the camera while reading the script :)
I would love to get one if I had the ability, I probably won't end up using face cam super often, but I'll try to get one by the next time I do.
doing a lot of co-op and pvp seeing a flask refill when an phantom died and seeing that same effect killing enemies i connected the dots fairly quickly at least i think
Very interesting mechanic. It does make me wonder if they changed it between ds3 and ER. Since in the latter it feels like you're hard-coded to get flask refills after defeating a group of enemies.
Yeah the system is definitely different in Elden ring and has more to do with set groups than random drops. It's actually a lot like other mechanics they changed when bringing them back in other games, like going from gravelording in DS1 to just more enemies in NG+ in DS2. Someone brought up that it'd be cool to have the same system in place for legacy dungeons, since they don't really have "groups" as such, but as far as I know that's not a thing at all.
I thought flask refills were guaranteed from all red phantoms. I would always recover 3 estus flasks from every red phantom i killed, so maybe i just got super lucky in that regard.
So the amount of estus regained is proportional to the amount of estus you’ve consumed, or something like that? Also, I’m pretty sure all invaders are 100% guaranteed to drop at least 2 flask refills for the host and 1 flask refill for any phantom or invader who is also in the world, this applying to npcs as well. I’ve gotten upwards of 3 estus refills at once from the Alva invasion before Irithyll dungeon before and I have footage of it.
Never knew about this. Though now this kind of reminds me of Elden ring's future feature.
i'm glad elden ring has made this system actually predictable
I'm sorry to not make a comment about the video but I just wanted to say that you are STUNNING and that I hope I look half as good as you when I grow up!💜💜
OMG face reveal.🎉🎉🎉
Not quite a face "reveal," but close enough, I suppose lol
My experience with DS3 recovery: When does it even happen? It's so rare it's almost never and doesn't help much.
Elden Ring: Oh I just kill small groups of goblins and other easy enemies and get recovery after recovery. They totally nerfed it :)
Maybe I missed it if you said it, I'm sorry if that's the case, but if enemies have a chance to refill regular and Ashen Estus... does this mean it can refill one or the other? Or say it's 15% for both, can you also get lucky and have it refill both?
If the chance is specifically for both then they can only refill both. If they have a chance for either, they can refill both if you get lucky, but aren't guaranteed to, yeah.
Great video!
I had no idea about this mechanic. And I've watched every Illusory Wall video ever. And many more than him, that's for sure 🤣 how did I miss this. I thought it had something broadly to do with amount of enemies killed. I figured maybe didn't enemies have different values towards that.
I did not realize all of disss was going on under the hood 🤷 wondrous insight!!!!
I've always wondered how this mechanic worked! I have a question though, you mentioned a few NPC invaders that have a CHANCE to refill your flask, but don't all invaders (npcs and real players) guarantee a refill upon defeat? Or did i misunderstand something?
instructions unclear i was to focused on how pretty she is and didn't learn anything
He*
@@MemeselfandIS H E ***
@@MemeselfandIshe*
Cool video, ignore the haters, they're just jealous of your fabulous hair
Another great video by the prettiest gamer out there, hell yeah
Would
Welp. The explanation was pretty solid, good job on powering through the many runs!
Also, sexy voice as a plus:D
I thought you we’re a guy with a slightly lighter voice lol this was a bit of a suprise
That's honestly kinda funny, I'm super open about my gender identity and expression lol
Maybe I should be more open about it 🤔
That face reveal. Always it was a dude behind
your hair is so pretty!
OMIGOD FACECAM
In a good way? :3
@@solarpellets absofuckinlutely
I was trying to listen to what she was saying but I was distracted by how pretty she looks.
>:3
cap lmao
I used to say that type of stuff back in grade school too😒 definitely a step above raw and abject thirst, ill give ya that.
Right???
Same
ummm leasbean
obviously to get gankers out there and do some things
what's the point in filming yourself if you are reading, not talking to camera🤔
Hi
didn't need the facecam
but I wanted it, most people are indifferent, and a lot of people like it :3
@@solarpellets disgusting.
@@nepdisc3722 and Im sure you're an absolute picture of beauty...
@@nepdisc3722 keep crying about having no friends or followers, a lot of us enjoy seeing her and you can scroll to another video easier than typing dumb crap like this
He or she? That’s the question
Its 2024 brotha, gonna have to start gettin used to it sometime. And its really not that hard to see they are presenting feminine. If you are asking what genitalia they have, youre the weird one.
she. that's the answer.
IDK how can you misgender her at this point without explicitly doing it for the sake of being an ass
What a waste of a video. We have known about this for a long time. It's tied to specific enemies, how does it feel to have wasted so much of your time. Go touch grass. Also, Please don't show your face, it's jarring.
Pretty women scare me, too, I get it.
Okay, Zachharrell7776 with no real identity or friends or followers or anything to hold yourself accountable for your hate, a lot of people (if you knew how to read as well as you flap your jaws) didn't actually know this info! There's no need to tell us you're into men by attacking women, we could already tell.
Also, a few hours before you left your comment, someone said they didn't know this information, so you're literally just wrong lol