I hate to say it but Miriel is by far (to me anyways) the BIGGEST mystery in Elden Ring hands down, why is he the only talking turtle, no remains of big shelled turtles, at all, the biggest we see, period, is in the DLC with the ancient turtles and uh their no where near the size of Miriel so as far as I'm concerned Miriel is the biggest unknown for this game.....how is he able to talk......why did they make him a "pope" religious figure, there are no photos (well paintings), no remains, on where he came from, was he sent by the greater will or did the greater will give him sentence cause there are literally no answers about this man only questions
The turtles are connected with the belfries and tower societies, the Carian royal family is likely more closely related to the turtles than the astrologers given how astrologers were so entranced by her moon spells
This is such a throwback to Dark Souls. Not because of the lore, but because of having to deal with someone who calls "miracles" "maracles" like my friend did back in the Dark Souls days.
@@Elden_dorK Jokes aside, great video. I am deeply disturbed by your ability to tie an idea as wild as "Radagon is Elden Ring's Velka" together so well.
@@jacobperry2491 thank you!! Hehe this one is just where the evidence led me. I've been obsessed with that statue since Dark Souls 3 and recognized it in my first Elden Ring playthrough. I at first thought it must have something to do with Rennala and/or Ranni because of Velka's ties to the Darkmoon. But, the more I looked into it, the more I realized Radagon fits mold over and over again o.O
Wait hold on, briar sorceries explain the stake impaled through Marika's impaled body! Radagon impaled himself with the stake to cast the wall of thorns, leaving it in Marika to presumably continue channeling the sorcery, before Elden Beast crucified them. That way you got a god that can't do anything from the inside and an inpenetrable wall that no mortal should be able to break from the outside, powered by said God from inside it. Literally made a box and stored the only key to open it inside it.
I always thought the "stake" in her side looked like one of Mohg's slashes, just before the blood flame pops out. It always looked to me like a bloody tear in space
Absolutely brilliant video, incredible attention to detail! I absolutely adored some of the shots in this video, huge production quality my friend! Wild you did this all by yourself!
THE PARALLELS THOUGH fun time, ive never noticed the statue directly behind miriel... but ive definitely thought about how the absolution theme runs through these souls games. its easy to wave a hand and just say "hes uncreative and reusing everything as the framework" but the framework MATTERS SO MUCH to why these games WORK.
I agree! And they don't put Absolution in every Fromsoft game. My memory could be off but I don't think it's in Demon's Souls or Bloodborne. So that the put it in Elden Ring by the same name was deliberate choice and probably has some meaning we can attempt to infer from it.
I was thinking you were going to say Radagon is the Blood Star but this did take a surprising swerve. There are definitely many parallels between him and Velka.
Oh! I hadn't thought of that before. I always associated the blood star with the Formless Mother in my mind... But now that you mention it, it is the red Fire Monks who have Radagon thorn sorceries that are connected to the blood star. Actually yeah, now I don't know why I thought the blood star had to do with the Formless Mother... I guess because of thorns cause bleeding. Dude! Thanks for this tip! I have to ponder on this more.
I'm not gonna lie, mos of this feel to me as a meta reference than a clue for solving the lore. But at the same time, there's so much that could be done by following this idea. I was thinking about the idea of Velka marring Manus just to betray him against gwyn
After seeing how Radagon leaves Rennala in Elden Ring, I suspect that Velka may have left Manus in similar fashion. Perhaps she was bound by a duty to protect or govern the world.
19 minutes in almost at the end of the video and I’m waiting waiting waiting and then RADAGON IS MARIKA! The idea that Marika parallels Velka is so amazing and cool. With everything we know about Marika the depth of Dark Souls just expanded, excellent work and I look forward to hearing who you think the Sun Realm King is! Personally, I think it’s a previous iteration of Radagon
All things yearn eternally to converge, including our minds! I thought I was crazy for thinking "I think Radagon may have lived and died before Radagon appeared leading the golden host." haha then here you are in my comments.
The moment you mentioned the dark moon as separate from the other moons I knew this video would be peak. You have a good eye for subtext and symbolism!
The vocalizing of Radagon’s theme at the end of the video might just be my favorite thing of any Elden Ring youtube video. well done, earned my like, sub & bell hit.
haha I appreciate it! I giggled to myself so much when I first thought of that gag. It feels real good to hear that I'm not the only one who thinks that kind of silliness is funny :P
I am absolutly blown away! I knew dark souls and Elden rings had rich backstory and lore but when I finished the video my jaw was in the floor! Can"t wait for the search for the missing lord of sunlight!
This video is like a breath of fresh air compared to the majority of lore videos. Great work and you clearly have a wealth of FS game lore knowledge. I have no idea how you spotted that asset reuse but damn thats a good spot. I agree that dark souls and elden ring are the same root story. Miyazaki gave GRRM a set of rules in the form of his past works, and G put his own spin on these worlds, but the story is pretty much the same. I believe M tells the same story of the human consciousness in DS, BB and ER. The only difference between games is whos mind we are in. Kindling, consciousness, Instincts, emotions, memories, logic, ideology, beliefs, ethics, illness and mind altering trauma. Nearly all characters in game can be tied to an aspect or sub aspect of the mind or something that has been sensed which alters any of these aspects, outer influences if you will. Everyone at some point considers the meanings of life and consciousness. Miyazaki loves the topic of life's biggest mysteries and most poignant questions. Making games which wrap up this curiousness in a fantasy skin highlighting the paradox of life itself. A story everyone fundamentally relates to is always going to be a good story, even if the answers remain a mystery. Looking forward to the next video for sure!
I 100% agree with you on this. There is a mystery of human consciousness hidden in this game and it is going to be so cool to unravel it together. DS, BB, & ER are modern myths that we are analyzing. Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell uncovered truths of human psychology by analyzing myths (Jung: anima/animus, the shadow, the archetypes, collective unconscious; Campbell: the hero's journey, among others that I am less familiar with). We're doing the same things and will discover the same + new things ourselves.
Hehe to be honest, I instantly recognized that statue on my very first playthrough back in 2022. I didn't make the Radagon connection until earlier this year. I've been obsessed with that statue since Ashes of Ariandel released back in.. was it 2016? I attempted to write a script for a lore video back then about it but nothing came of it. And I'm completely with you about the story and the Miyazaki/GRRM collaboration. To add to it a bit, my friend @Jackisamimic explained that Miyazaki has been a fan of GRRM for a long time before they ever met. There's a good shot that even as far back as Dark Souls elements of its story were inspired by GRRM's work which would have included several books of A Song of Ice and Fire by then. And I've had similar thoughts when I have asked myself "why do I spend so much time thinking about Dark Souls lore? Why don't I get so hooked on other games' lore?" And I think that the root story is that's motivating all the drama we play through and all the lore we try to parse and understand... the root of it is a relatable human story.
@NamelessSingerEldenRing I'm so with you! I started reading Campbell's The Hero with a Thousand Faces some years ago when I was replaying Dark Souls. And there were bits that I remember thinking "Did.. Miyazaki read this?" There's a bit in the beginning (that I will probably butcher due my unreliable memory) about how the soul coming through a fiery portal that is the sun and the hero must conquer the serpent that comes from the abyss by using the dragon power of challenging the hero's dragons. I 'ought to look it up. Because I was thinking "this must be some pattern-seeking cognitive bias that it sounds so similar to my favorite game..."..... or is it!?
haha I'm making a "my bad takes" Short right now that will most definitely include "... shared universe? No. I seriously doubt it." I'm not gonna pretend that I ever anticipated anything like the Nightreign announcement trailer :P
Very good catch. Brilliant way to connect different game lores on a meta level to make an interesting theory, and still managing to contain them in their respective stories. Well done!
Thanks a ton! It's a tricky balance for trying to judge if it makes sense to infer one game's details from another's. I try to make sure a theory can stand on its own within its own game, but use the other games to give me clues where to look.
You’re delight when connecting Radagon to Velka and therefore Marika is Velka was wonderful. I love seeing the connections between ER and DS. So much of ER is a love poem to FromSoft’s other games. Please bring more to us fellow nerds of dark souls who have made loving these games their whole personality.
haha I love hearing that there are more like-minded people like me out there! Thank you for the encouragement because I do indeed have more DS and ER videos planned! I think there's a lot of Fromsoft's other games in ER as well. And I am a pretty big nerd about Bloodborne and Demon's Souls lore as well.. but definitely not at the same scale as my Dark Souls lore nerdiness.
I lived and breathed bloodborne lore for awhile. My happiness when I first entered a catacomb was unspeakable. As a weirdo who really enjoyed the chalice dungeons I was really glad to see an iteration of them in ER.
Holy hell, this is good. Awesome attention to detail. I always figured the hooded statues in Elden Ring tie to Radagon/Marika somehow, I never would've thought of a Velka connection. I always figured the hooded statue was a younger version of Radagon, going about the Lands Between, keeping his identity a secret.
I was mostly oblivious to the hooded statues until I started watching @Jackisamimic's videos. He does a great breakdown of the evidence of why they depict Radagon. KiteTales has a great one too. Both links are in the description. I recognized the Caitha statue on my very first playthrough because I've been obsessed with that statue since long before Elden Ring launched. But it wasn't until @Jackisamimic opened my eyes to the Sun Realm in Elden Ring that I realized the Caitha/Radagon connection.
Golden Order Fundamentalism was created after Radagon became the King-Consort. Thorns seem to be older. Radagon used that mark during Godfrey's era when he married Rennala. Thorns are also used by Fire Monks, who were active at the very beginning of Godfrey's era. As for Marika, we know that she had Erdtree Incantations since the beginning of Godfrey's era. (statues in Mountaintops Churches are missing one braid; so her last visit to the Shaman Village must have happened right after creation of the Erdtree) At that time, she was full of hopes, and it makes sense for her to use the healing magic. Is it possible that Marika, like Radagon, has switched her school of magic according to her state of mind? Like, could her doubts cause a creation of the Black Flame and the Godskins? And also her other identity, which was later defeated by Maliketh. It feels like... they are multiplying.
Great observations! I think there are lots of good reasons to think the Gloam Eyed Queen was Marika. And there are so many weird fantasy mechanics that could potentially explain these all being the same-yet-different people. There are mimic tears putting cloning on the table. There are the brothers D who are twins with two bodies but one soul. There are deathbed companions who apparently are able to reincarnate people. A piece of himself that Miquella discarded became a fully autonomous individual. Miquella transformed his body from a child's body to an adult body and then into an adult spirit body thing that hugs Radahn.. There are shadow-bound beast siblings. I don't know what the precise mechanics are. But I'd say there an abundance of plausible explanations for why GEQ, Marika, and Radagon could have all been the same person somehow.
Yesssss King, omg this video is kicking butt. Keep it coming man, Miyazaki said we would need to know his other games to get ER and you are finding a very coherent thread of info.
Miriel is the Avatar of The Greater Will gently guiding and experiencing the Lands Between. ( I know this is not the case but I like the thought so I'm sticking to it )
lol you know.. maybe not like in a explicit narrative sense. But I'm in the boat that the Greater Will is a stand-in for Miyazaki and GRRM. They imagined/created this world. Set the stage with characters and motivations. Puppeteered their fates. Then abandoned their creations when they ship the game. The NPC's can't communicate with Miyazaki or GRRM anymore. The Greater Will can't influence the characters any longer - they're gone. Now it's in the hands of us the players. And Miriel is a nod to GRRM's affection of turtles. He's so knowledgable because he's a stand-in for GRRM. And GRRM is part of the Greater Will. So "Miriel is the Avatar of The Greater Will" is actually a super easy sell for me. I dig it. I'm in.
Welp, I'm here for this theory train! Also, I'll post here too that now that youve shown Radagon casting the thorn sorceries, I'm convinced that's not destined death impaling Marika, but a giant barb of Briars of Punishment and that Radagon is the one who cast it. Great video!
Couldn't be happier to have you onboard! I've been thinking the same thing about that red spear lately!! And and! It makes me think maybe all those dead giant corpses on the Mountaintops of the Giants who are so uniformly impaled while kneeling... Maybe dying in battle isn't the best explanation for them. Maybe they ritually sacrificed themselves o.O similar to how the Fire Monks in the area do when they cast their thorn sorceries. My head's totally in the same place yours is on that!
Idk why the idea that Radagon veiled the land of shadow never occurred to me. Although it does make alot of sense. Possibly another tragic reason for Marika to break the Elden Ring
It's pretty understandable that the common interpretation is that Marika veiled the Land of Shadow. Messmer's Remembrance heavily implies that she did... but even so there is some wiggle room to allow for it being Radagon who did the veiling. And if nothing else, Radagon is Marika so.. If Radagon is the one who actually did the act of the veiling then it would still be in line with Messmer's Remembrance.
@ yea there’s a lot of characters naming “Marika” specifically in the dlc. Could be an effect of the veil itself even that for some reason his name is totally unknown to them all. Even the individuals like Leda and Ansbach who should be be somewhat aware of him as lord. Or it was so sudden between that Godfrey -> Radagon power change that people in it didn’t get to see Radagon in power. But again. Some characters should know of him despite that
@@GrieveIVWell, even Big Dog Pope asks himself how a "mere champion" has taken Godfrey's place at Marika's side. He seems as baffled as anyone else at Radagon's origins and ascension
@ which is funny to think about in that like. In a lot of ways Godfrey was also a “champion” in similar regards. Interesting though how various characters perceive him. Such an anomaly
@@Elden_dorK @Elden_dorK I'll TLDR you the lore theory that supports your theory. It's explained in more detail with more evidence by far better TH-camrs. So, the Hornsent are a very religious people and decide to create a God with far too much alchemical connotation. The recipe is genocide and the law of convergence. Start with alot of torture, take Hornsent flesh and shaman flesh, put them in jars of all sizes, and the biggest jar wound up spitting out their successful hermaphrodite God. (I believe Zully the Witch may have posted a Marika in game model without hair and her bald head has the jar seal on it.) (The law of convergence association is a beast on its own and I can't remember all the facts. It's like, you have the snake eating people to attain godhood through taking their power, grafting to gain the power of others, and the giant flame wanting to unify all life into one life.) The Hornsent then enrishined the biggest jar. The smaller jars wound up spitting out failure hermaphrodites that were grafted onto the Emir giant castle of hermaphrodite body horror. The successful hermaphrodite God would potentially be a young version of both Marika and Radgon. A version that was more singular in its goal of revenge for suffering and genocide. Two souls that were similar enough in thought and motivation to be considered the exact same person until they developed different opinions and became their own people. And why have jar genocide of all things? Alchemical stuff, the resulting jar hemaphrodite being is supposed to have some kind of change of their soul and make them into saints, and the being is a jar for the Elden Ring. The DLC going on about Marika's flesh being bad? Well, that flesh was the result of countless people being thrown in a genocide blender that was attached to one shaman female with torture and infection. After that, the flesh was poisoned by either Godhood or hatred.
That's it, I'm subbing. I've been saying for years, elden ring, souls, and bloodborne, aren't in the same universe. But! If you layer their images on top of one another they complete a much bigger picture. Just sprinkle in some norse lovecraft and Arthurian legend to fill any remaining holes
100% precisely where my head's at too! My GRRM lore is pretty weak - but I'm convinced GRRM lore is keeping good company with the other lore sprinkles.
I can relate. I think I've had the same feeling multiple times just reading the comments on my video. There's just so much to Elden Ring that I frequently have the feeling of "how did I not notice that before someone told me? It seems so obvious now!" :P
Very interesting video! It’s always fun to find clues in earlier FromSoft games to help decode Elden Ring’s lore. Can’t wait to see where you go from here!
@Elden_dorK I had the makings of a Velka theory, but my dark horse was Melina... especially if she was/is the gloam-eyed queen. Yours is way more convincing and well put together. Haha
My thinking was pretty in line with yours, most likely. I recognized the statue instantly in my first playthrough of ER because I have abandoned scripts for Dark Souls 3 lore videos I never made. Hehe I recognized that statue the moment I saw it. But! for the longest time I tried to connect to Melina or Ranni or both (since Melina and Ranni are so uncomfortably similar yet different). And the Radagon connection didn't occur to me until fairly recently after watching Jackisamimic's videos about the Sun Realm. I thought the Church of Vows was about Rennala and the moon. And therefore the easter egg statue must have something to do with Ranni and therefore maybe Melina. But after Jack's and KiteTale's videos (linked in the description) convinced me that the hooded man statues are Radagon... It suddenly clicked. The Laws of Causality/Regression.. the Mask of Confidence... the thorns, the sin... it all just fell like dominoes for me earlier this year :P So believe me, I totally understand where you're coming from!
@Elden_dorK just to throw a raw idea into the gears... I also toyed with that being Elden John, but it would have to be even older than the Nox and claymen... and it is nowhere near as busted as the old man statues... pretty close in proximity to the Altus Plateau ruins though. That's what I love about these games. There are a thousand things that could connect a thousand ways, and everyone has a hot take. Anyway, I love the videos. Keep up the wonderful work!
Please make more videos, this has been so good. I would love (as I said in my other comment) a revisit of the three sisters or a video on the eternal cities.
Thank you! I have started on the next video as well as a couple Shorts. Life and work haven't left me with much time or energy over the last few weeks. But things are calming down now and I'm planning to make some progress during my upcoming time off.
Thank you so very much!! Your videos are a huge inspiration! Not to mention eye opening! Not to mention extremely useful reference material! Thank you thank you!
I've been particularly interested in Elden Ring's sun; so, this was a surprisingly interesting video. I've long figured that Velka was once Gwyn's wife and was responsible for protecting Priscilla. However, I thought that Velka's ER analogue was the Gloam-Eyed Queen due to the similar amount of mystique surrounding them, and the relationship between the words "gloam" and "dusk" have me thinking about her in relation to the sun. But I cannot deny that Radagon has a similar mystique about him, and you make a compelling case for his being Velka's stand-in in this world. Great video. I'm interested to see more. I also have heard people theorize that the hooded statues are Radagon, but I have not seen why; so, I'm excited to watch the two videos you've suggested.
Thank you so much! And.. you know, depending on your headcannon, your theory that the Gloam Eyed Queen is Velka's analogue is not mutually exclusive with my claim. Because there are reasons to suspect that the Marika used to be the Gloam Eyed Queen in one way or another. So if the GEQ is Marika, and Marika is Radagon... and Radagon is Velka. I hope you watch the videos I linked! I think they're great! Short version: Misbegotten pray to the hooded statue. Lionine misbegotten wield the Iron Greatsword which is the same sword the statues wield. Except the boss of the Cave of the Forlorn who wields Radagon's Golden Order Greatsword. Radagon was a champion first, then studied sorceries under Rennala, then incantations under Marika. The statues we find come in three variations: sword wielding champion, book wielding scholar, and the torch wielding one in the church of vows where Radagon married Rennala. They're found in the highest concentration around Radagon-influenced areas. The Lunar Cathedrals in Liurnia where he was King through marriage to Rennala. And in Leyndell where he was Elden Lord.
18:10 YOU BETTER BE SHARING THE EVIDENCE AFTER THAT SOUNDTRACK as a person who never got to play Dark Souls series myself I appreciate the work you put into this video, it explains a lot and gives me food for thought! definitely subscribing for further education ✍️
Thank you so much! I will post a poll soon to see what folks are most interested in seeing next. Because I don't think I justify all the claims I made in just one video. I'll have to split them up a bit :)
Yes excellent spot on the Caitha/Velka statues. IMO the GEQ is one big Velka & Friede reference... - Purple eyes. Friede has purple eyes, she assumed Velka's form and those eyes weren't present in the painting where she's wearing all white. Purple is tied to darkness in Dark Souls, which Velka likes. Caitha sheds red and blue tears - combine that, you get purple. A purple tear is summoned by the Londor miracles. In Elden Ring, the red and blue branchswords function identically to Caitha's rings. The Twinbird like the GEQ is associated with death, and Melina's eye is sealed by a bird's foot, more specifically - a crow's. - Vargram is GEQ's knight and he wields a spiral sword, his friend is named Wilhelm, same as Friede's knight Vilhelm (exactly the same in Japanese too) - Blackflame! - Melina's body got burned like Friede and she also wears a hood upon her first meeting. Her hair literally goes black during the reveal cutscene. - The godskins themselves are hooded and pale white with serpentine traits, they wield a peeler and a stitcher and pose a threat to the gods... Kind of like Priscilla, who's whole existence is threatening to the gods due to the darkness in her body, and who is also a pale white child with serpentine (dragon) traits who wields a scythe (peeler) and a rapier (stitcher). Priscilla is kind of implied to be Velka's child via the dark associations and Velka's statue holding a little girl, which upon turning reveals the way to Priscilla... - Irina serves as sort of a foil to Caitha in DS3. The conspicuously named Irina in Elden Ring is also the ying to Melina's yang, where both are maidens but she likes the frenzied flame while Melina doesn't... - Interesting dichotomy also where Melina presents herself to be all compassionate to even Boc but harbors a dark secret, like Caitha and Velka. And it also fits the while empyrean split aspect which Miyazaki mentioned in an interview. - On the godskin peeler the GEQ is posing with a baby in a swaddling cloth, like the Velka statue in Firelink Shrine Not trying to say "Melina is GEQ is Velka is Caitha" outright, but the parallels are interesting...
Nice, someone finally has a Radagon connection. Great find. I wonder what you would think of the lore theorist Firelink Conspiracy. He is my favorite for Dark Souls lore. He has Velka as part of a conspiracy to drain the sun of souls and leave it as the drained black-void. That the Occult rebellion was successful, and Gwen was forced to link the fire. Linking the fire will return souls from the sun, and lessening the amount of dregs or the pooling abyss. I generally see Radagon as a type of Luciferian "fallen-star" who is trying to usurper a crown. Radagon conspiracy
Thanks! I have seen a couple of The Firelink Conspiracy's videos and really like his perspective! I learned a couple interesting things and think we share some parallel thinking. I diverge a bit when it comes to who is and isn't a nefarious actor. But I really like his analysis!
Cool observations. I don't think any of the many inspirations for Elden Ring (mythology, history, GRRM, Dark Souls, etc.) are 1:1 so I think the last portion of this video is a bit far for my taste lol. Is it possible that Radagon, and Velka's iterations are not the same person, but more akin to the same archetypes returning through different people. The Law of Regression. Personally I think Radagon was just some Misbegotten who led the Morne rebellion. Radagon's whole character seems to be of a champion of mankind and in turn the Tarnished. Also I'm pretty sure said random Misbegotten from Morne was called Hewg.
Did I read correctly that you're suggesting that Hewg is Radagon? Because... I've honestly never considered that before. And.. that's a really cool idea! They're both trapped inside the Erdtree! They're both smiths! And Radagon is undeniably associated with the Misbegotten. I love it. I'm going to ponder on this! Hehe I don't think Radagon and Velka are narratively the same person. I think they are two separate and distinct characters. But I do think Miyazaki's story that he handed of to GRRM included a Velka-like character who did Velka-like things for Velka-like reasons.
@@Elden_dorK Oh yes I am suggesting Radagon is (or was) Hewg haha. Glad to see someone take so kindly to it lmao. Outside of what you listed, one of my favorite pieces of "evidence" is how his shackles burn when the Erdtree burns. He is free to leave the Roundtable/The Erdtree (the stone platform is round, and I believe the Roundtable Hold is essentially a Rememberance. Yet they both refuse to leave their posts, bound by duty. I absolutely LOVE the relationship between Roderika (Marika) and Hewg (Radagon). Relistening to their dialogue through this lens is so interesting to me, and I honestly think explains a lot. But what I love even more is how Hewg forgets everything he knows, BUT his duty to smith the God-Slaying Weapon (The Tarnished). My favorite implication is that Radagon has been sentient, like Hewg this whole time, but forgets everything but his purpose at the very end. Also I actually am not entirely convinced the Thorns are from Radagon, the thorns could have easily been made into the shape of Radagon's Rune as opposed to just having Radagon's Rune behind them. Could they be coming from the Scadutree? Idk
Dude!! I love this! Like, copy/pasting into my notes right now. I see it so clearly now how Rodrika and Hewg echo Marika and Radagon! Like, it was invisible before and now obvious o.O This is dope. I'm not certain I'm convinced that they're literally Marika and Radagon. But every since playing Dark Souls 3 I've believed that Miyazaki has been retelling NPC story arks from game-to-game and even within the game. Like I think Irina and Eygon's story gives us information about Reah of Thorolund from Dark Souls. And within Elden Ring especially.. I think things like Tannith and the Volcano Manor questline are meant to be an echo or retelling of past events in Elden Ring. And I've always had the feeling Rodrika's quest must be one of these echoes.. hinting at something bigger. But I never considered Hewg! I also like this take, because I've always liked the idea that Marika and Radagon aren't antagonistic to each other, rather they're cooperating. And Rodrika's and Hewg's relationship could reveal insights that support that idea! Ah man, it works so well. Rodrika deals with spirits. Hewg deals with material weapons. Marika's soreseal boosts spiritual attributes and Radagon's the physical. Really appreciate you sharing these insights!
Ngl I almost turned the video off during the intro, because I’ve never seen any of your videos before and thought maybe this was just a really long parody. Glad I stuck it out cause this was very convincing and I don’t even know anything about Dark Souls.
Thanks for the feedback! I had concerns that my Miriel impersonation gag may not land as well as it did in my imagination. I think for future videos I will aim for a snappier intro that reflects the overall tone and content of the video to avoid giving the impression this is 100% silly stuff. But.. I also don't think I can manage to motivate myself to make a video unless I throw in some stuff that makes me giggle. But really! I appreciate the feedback. I can factor it in and adjust the balance and timing in future videos!
Not only a beautifully edited, but also wicked smart video! The comparisons are just spot on, holy moly.. talk about a mind blown. Makes me wish i'd paid more attention to DS1 lore when i played it T_T Color me excited for your next video!!
wow! This is such a nice comment to read!! Thank you thank you! I'm going to try and watch your video today! The title is hilarious! And it came out pre-DLC before everyone started talking about jars. You've caught my curiosity :)
@@Elden_dorK You're very welcome! After all this time watching elden ring content it's awesome to still get to be surprised and amazed again about the lore from newer creators like you! And thank YOU so much as well wtf, i didn't expect you'd even see my jar video lol :D At the time my friends just told me i was nuts and to stop obsessing over textures and symbolism loool, but i'm glad it paid off by having a lore wizard like yourself acknowledge it!!
Recently, Ive been pondering the Ertree and its ghostly glow... Specifically wondering if when the Erdtree was burned up previously (and scattered the seeds we find), it didnt get a thin ghostly coating we all THINK is the bright and shiny Erdtree. It would explain the dead, blackened tree we find above the model AND the split husk in Morgott's arena outside. Also, the dark and lifeless interior would also make sense as the result of being hollowed out with fire. We need the Giant's flame and the Rune of Death to initiate the killing of the Erdtree's SOUL, not its body. It even has the echoes the idea of a dead corporeal form with a living spirit, which we see with Miquella and Godwin both (you could even argue that Mohg had the opposite effect of his body living after his soul is dead and gone.) The concept of body and soul existing seperately is a pretty regular event during the story. The theory of the Erdtree being an illusion isnt a nerw theory but I feel like the variables havent been discussed really anywhere yet. anyway, if it is worth looking into, I thought I would share it here, on my new favorite head trip of a lore video.
Oh man, I just read your comment now after watching Nameless Singer's video that she released yesterday and I think what you're saying here is right in line with what she is saying. And I'm pickin' up what you're puttin' down.
Amazing research, presentation and theory! I always thought that there was more DNA between the two games than people cared to admit- like Friede and Ariandel resembling GEQ and the Fire Giants etc… I love your take and have always seen Marika as a dark lunar figure rather than sun aligned, even though her bed is the right size for Gwynevere! Your parallels between the two games spells is really compelling. I remember GRRM said that he was initially pitched to work on Dark Souls 4, which is to be taken with a grain of salt but I think it’s interesting that’s what the FromSoftware team were referring to internally in its initial development.
oh wow! I'd love to know where GRRM said that or the source that that's what Fromsoft referred to it ass internally. It could come in handy in justifying some future claims ;) And good call on Friede and Ariandel resembling GEQ and the Fire Giants! Like, I'm embarrassed I have not considered that before o.O I mean, of course I thought about surface level stuff like they both have black flame. But your comment's got me thinking... Thinking about how much Ariandel's bowl looks like the Lord Vessel. And how much the Giant's Forge looks like a Lord Vessel. And how Friede arrived after the Mother of the Forlorn and she is impersonating her. Most theorizing I've seen about the GEQ and even my own has Marika mimicking the GEQ.. but what if GEQ was the one mimicking Marika!? Dude! Thanks for sharing.
I wonder if the dark woman statue (literally made of a dark material) in the church at the Precipice of Anticipation is related? Similar pose only palm down. She is the first we see, like in Alchemy's nigredo. The blackened remains of the previous cycle and from which the cycle restarts anew. Bloodborne also has connections. Caged Divinity Miquella and Mensis Caged Micolash. The completed map overlays Elden Rings, with the Forbidden Woods lining up with Mountaintop of the Giants - literally the icy lake lines up with a corresponding hole shape in the Bloodborne map. Nightmare of Mensis lines up with the Shadow of the Erdtree area. Its is crazy to see!
Woah, I've never heard about Bloodborne's and Elden Ring's maps aligning like that! Sounds very cool! Weellll, I believe that statue you're referring to is made of bronze or copper. And I believe it depicts one of the Three Sisters. And I don't have the whole thing puzzled out yet. But I think Marika may be one of the Three Sisters. You can find a couple other statues made of the same material but depicting either a different pose or different women. Commonly found in the Hero's Graves and a bunch of broken ones found near Godwyn's creepy face in Stormveil.
Wow, I did not expect you to crack the whole series open with this. Apparently it's turtle pope's all the way down. =\ PS: I've heard a few people suggest that Velka was Gwyn's consort and I think it has always been an undersung plot point. Bravo on rekindling the story of THE central character of the entire series. =)
Thank you so much!! I've suspected Velka was queen or consort of Anor Londo since... I think sometime around when Dark Souls 3 launched and I replayed DS1 again. Some stuff clicked for me. Before then I was on board with what seems to be the more commonly held theory that Velka was antagonistic towards Gwyn. But then I found a bunch of stuff I plan to make a video about and convinced myself otherwise :) Then Elden Ring directly tells us "Radagon repaired the world and was King Consort."
@@Elden_dorK It is crazy how much Elden Ring felt like it was all 3DS games rolled into one. To me the part that sold it for me was the line from DS2, about how all the gods might be the same as other gods but with different names. Myself, I love anthropology and have been pouring over ancient religions relentlessly because of DarkSouls and Elden Ring and I only ever feel like I see the whole thing when looking at at all of those parts at once. In fact, there is a common thread in religions of the past ot all have been constantly borrowing from each-other and riffing on each-other and one city's god was another city's adversary God. Many have linked Odin with Bacchus, who were both gods of rage and alcohol. Bacchus was also linked with Osirus with the diety Dionysus-Osiris. This creates a through-line of possibly one god from Egypt to the Netherlands. A couple of other names that pop-out linclude but are hardly limited to: Zurvan Phanes Hermes Trismegistus Apep Ra/Horus Hathor Moses Mithras Yaweh/Set Baal Beezlebub Dagon Sabazios Amun and Aten I'm sorry for the long list, it could probably have been about ten times longer. I tried to keep it focused. Anyhow, best of luck on your coming videos. I look forward to seeing where this hot head of steam caries you. You've really grabbed the bull of creation by the horns, as they say. =D
haha honestly, I truly understand the sentiment! As a consumer of many-a-lore video myself I'm pretty skeptical of out-of-game stuff like this. But, I mean, the devs put the statue there to tell us something. If it was scattered throughout the Lands Between maybe it could be dismissed as asset reuse like the giant crabs. But it's just the one statue in just the right spot. I think it counts :) Thanks for the comment!
Considering the new standalone game ER: Nightreign, featuring what may be Nameless King and hooded figure that is very very similar to Fire Keeper, you may have been unto something regarding ER and DS being somewhat connected via that Velka statue...
My pleasure! I wanted to make a Dark Souls 3 lore video about it ages ago, but I didn't manage. So I've held an obsession with that statue for awhile. When I first saw it in Elden Ring I flipped out :P I at first thought it must have something to do with Rennala or Ranni. But the more I dug into the more I realized, it's Radagon.
It's kind of a minor thing, but I never see anyone mention that Velka is clearly based on Zorro. Watch the opening sequence of the 90s "Zorro" anime. Zorro does a cool double slash that is very similar to the unique strong attack on Velka's sword in DS1! This double slash actually forms a "V" which is instantly reminiscent of Zorro's habit of cutting the letter Z as a mark of his presence. And of course the mask and leathers of the Black Set in DS1 are a pretty close match to Zorro's outfit. So it's clear that "Velka" was a pseudonym adopted by a charismatic leader fighting an oppressive order, much like Zorro. It's interesting that the new motion to cast Law of Regression is the rebalancing of the arms, when the spell itself has been rebalanced from Vow of Silence (it has about 2-3x the range but no longer prevents casting, only deleting buffs). I feel like Corhyn these days, sitting outside the colosseum waiting, interpreting signs, hoping for a decent balance patch. How long will we be stuck with these intentionally unbalanced patches before they refine things a bit? Somebody slip me a Potion of Forgetfullness and burn this game down.
haha I'm not gud enough to even try to participate in PvP so I don't have an opinion on Law of Regression outside of its huge lore implications. Interesting comparison! I have to admit my Zorro lore is non-existent outside of "he wears black and cuts Z's with a sword". I didn't know he was a charismatic leader.
I don't think Velka tried to contain the Abyss. If anything, she wanted to bring about the Age of Man. As Saint_Riot once pointed out, the Chosen Undead is delivered to Lordran on this crow/raven (a symbol of Velka), is put on the path of Linking the First Flame, yet while doing so kills all of the Gods of the previous era, wrests away their Great Souls, burns them and gains their power, and then kills the herald of the previous age, denounces the First Flame and starts the Age of Man. And then in Dark Souls 3, we see much the same thing happen, but this time with the Church of Londor (which not only has ties to Velka, but also Kaathe who actively seeks to start the Age of Man) as the sponsors of the Ashen One. We see the Ashen One take power away from the Gods of the previous age, and usher in an Age of Man. Or maybe this is a completely incorrect reading of the Souls games. P.S.: Thinking on this more, it might be the case that Radagon isn't the stand-in for Velka, but her opposite, her mirror, in some ways. The most obvious start is their gender of course. But their in-game counterparts, Gwyn and Marika, also did different things, opposite even. Gwyn sought to continue his reign and his Age, yet Marika chose to destroy it. Velka sought to end Gwyn's Age, yet Radagon chose to mend Marika's. But it is true that other parallels persist, such as Gwyn allying with the Pygmy Lords, while betraying them by banishing them (and their Ringed Knights to the inaccessible Ringed City) and by Linking the Fire to Humanity; Marika, similarly, allied her Order with the Hornsent, yet eventually betrayed them by banishing them (and their Banished Knights! by making the Land of Shadow inaccessible) and by persecuting those with aspects of the Crucible (namely, the horned Omen).
Those are fair interpretations! I hope to convince you in future videos of some of my interpretations :) I disagree that Velka is trying to end the Age of Fire. I do agree that she is the primary agent orchestrating the Chosen Undead's arrival in Lordran. Setting them on a course to harvest the most powerful souls remaining in Lordran. And (where I diverge from you) deliver the souls to the Kiln and rekindle the First Flame. The myth of the Chosen Undead is a fail-safe in the event the other Lords refused to follow in Gwyn's footsteps and preserve the Age of Fire. The age of civilization, cooperation, and enlightenment. All signs indicate that the Age of Dark is an end of civilization. Where the living are consumed with strong emotions like love, greed, want, and hate. A cold and lightless world. Gwyn proved that the First Flame can be fed and rekindled with a powerful soul. But the time his sacrifice bought is running out by the time DS1 begins. The Fire needs new souls and the remaining Lords refuse to return to their thrones ;) Londor and the Sable Church do as you describe. And they do have ties to Velka. But they don't follow Velka. They take their orders from Darkstalker Kaathe. New Londo decorates their temple with statues of Velka. Yet when the Four Kings were corrupted by the Abyss and the Darkwraiths threatened the rest of Lordran, it was Velka who flooded the entire city to contain them. It wasn't Gwyn, he had already sacrificed himself by the time of the flooding. Before he left he was on good terms with the Four Kings and gifted a part of his Lord Soul. And just like the Sable Church in Dark Souls 3, it wasn't Velka who tempted the Four Kings. It was Kaathe. Hehe and I do not think Marika is Gwyn's stand-in in Elden Ring :) I think Elden Ring has its own Lord of Sunlight. Carefully but not completely hidden.
@@Elden_dorK I am definitely looking forwards to your new discoveries and your new videos! I do see your interpretation of the matters, and they definitely hold water! Especially the gathering of Lord Souls, Velka's works as not only a counterpart to Gwyn but also an integral part of his Age, as well as her presence in New Londo. Though I find it hard to justify certain parts - like the Age of Dark being less civilized. We dont have much to go on for what that Age is like; it seems static at least, like Dark Firelink Shrine. We do have the ancient times at the Oolacile Sanctuary and the Chasm of the Abyss. If the Abyss becomes widespread in the Age of Dark, and the inhabitants of the Abyss are more primal and shamanistic (as indicated by Manus and the Oolacile Sanctuary), then a decrepit Age of Dark checks out (even linguistically!) Yet there's the Sable Church, and all of Londor itself. That civilization does not seem crude and decrepit, in fact it seems very advanced, with a great deal of effort put into their grand gothic architecture, just like the civilizations of the old Gods. Maybe DS3 retcons things a bit? Or... maybe Carim, the gothic civilization previously aligned with the Way of White, fell to Kaathe's temptation. Ah, typical toothy snake. That aside, I'm also still not quite sold on Velka being on the side of the Age of Fire. Sin is her domain. She punishes or forgives, but generally opposes Sin. It would be odd if Velka was okay with the First Sin, related to Fire or the cycle. It would be even more odd if Caitha (who we assume is Velka), the Goddess of Tears who weeps for the dead, would be okay with continuing the Age of Fire, when Man assumes a fleeting form and can truly die. Seems to me that Velka's interests align with the end of Fire. Maybe I'm still seeing it wrong. Or maybe DS2 retcons things a bit. Still, I'll be waiting on your video! I think it'll put things in better perspective for me. I have no idea who the Lord of the Sun could be in Elden Ring, though. Maybe the bearded man clutching stone tablets, depicted by the Uhl civilization... hmm... But really, love your work, please keep at it, and thank you for the response, I love discussing Souls!
Thanks! Most of the parallels I find between Fromsoft games I don't consider particularly strong evidence for lore-hunting. But when they put the statue right there in the world. I think then it's fair assume it's a hint from the devs and the correlations are worth factoring into the bigger lore-picture.
There was most definitely a Sun Realm that's been all but wiped from history in the Lands Between. I been thinking that moon-worship popped up after after the Sun Realm was erased. Because the Full Moon Queen used to be an astrologer who studied the stars. And the moon reflects the sun's light. I think Rennala's Full Moon religion was a work-around to older ways of sun worship that have been forbidden under the Golden Order.
@Elden_dorK the shadow realm was the sun realm. as we know that it used to be smack dab in the lands between before it was banished. The scadutree is the scar left behind by the greattee being cut in half by Marika teleporting EVERYTHING to whats essentially a giant evergaol. But the moon worshippers were what the nox were before they were sent underground. The carians are descendants of the scholars that lived in the mountaintops who studied the constellations and the moon.
Ooooo! I also believe the Carians precede the Nox! Not a popular theory in the circles I hang out in. But I think the Carians are a big deal and predate most if not all the humanoid factions of Elden Ring. Like, I don't think the Carians were descendants of the Astrologers. I think the Carians were the founders and the rulers of the Astrologers.
Bro!!!!! So it’s thought that Radagon represents an emotion just like St. Trina represents Miquella’s love. So what do you think Radagon would represent knowing what you know now? Also holy crap, these connections you made. Amazing! Love the Radagon theme cover you sang 😂
hahaha thank you so much! I'm glad my sense of humor didn't spoil my credibility! There's a bunch of mechanics in Elden Ring that could explain "Radagon is Marika". Maybe he's a discarded part of like St. Trina. Maybe he's a mimic tear.. maybe Marika is a mimic tear. Maybe one's a a shadow-bound beast sibling thing. Maybe one was reincarnated by deathbed companions.. Maybe they're twins sharing a single soul like D... They put in enough crazy explanations to make it really difficult to deduce which one. But! If Radagon exists by St. Trina mechanics... then the emotions I would assign to him would be based on the emotions reality to Humanity in Dark Souls. Love, envy, want.. and even though it's not an emotion, luck. I think Radagon loved Rennala and loved his children :) And he wanted to repair the world for the sake of his worldly attachments, those he loves. But that's just because I think that sounds like a nice story. I don't have any concrete evidence for Radagon's motivations.
oooh my goooood! When the video hits 9:20 I realized the connection, the celestial dew has the same power as Velka's statue to stop aggression, of cleasing. But that is all, I guess it stops at just being a reference or a similar concept, they do not have direct relation. I think you went too far in the implication section, like Dusk being Velka's daughter, Velka flooding New Londo, Velka preserving the age of fire (when it is implied she does the contrary) and Radagon being responsable by the night of the black knives. Also, the DLC already shows us that in fact Radagon was once separeted from Marika. They were once the same person, but by the time he becames the second Elden Lord, Marika cast him away like Miquella did with St. Trina. So they both have different motivations, the implications you mentions mixed up their both intentions. Despite of that, this was a very cool video. I did not see this anywhere else
Those are all fine interpretations, but based in just as much speculation as my claims. There is significant evidence that Velka was involved in the flooding of New Londo in Dark Souls, but the only explicitly involved parties were the three sealers. I'm aware it's a popular idea that Velka opposed the Age of Fire but there is significant evidence that she didn't including that she's involved with sealing away and burying most of the things that imply she opposed the Age of Fire. I did not claim that Radagon is responsible for the Night of the Black Knives. I claimed that his followers are. The point I intended to make was that Ranni was aligned with Radagon, not that Radagon necessarily orchestrated the whole thing. And to draw the parallel to Dark Souls, that the followers of Velka committed the ill-fated plot but that does not necessarily mean Velka orchestrated it. But, I can see how the way I worded it could be interpreted the way you did. You propose reasonable interpretation between the mechanics and timeline of Radagon and Marika. But it's not the only plausible one. Perhaps Radagon is a discarded part of Marika like St. Trina and Miquella. Or perhaps one of them is a silver tear clone of the other created by the Eternal Cities. Or perhaps they are twins who share a single soul like the brothers D. Or perhaps Radagon is just Marika in disguise using her Mimic's Veil aka "Marika's Mischief". Or perhaps one stored their soul within glinstone and was transferred to the other's body like Sellen. Or perhaps one is a reincarnation of the other via Deathbed Companions' reincarnation powers. There are many plausible explanations all with several plausible timelines. Your favorite explanation doesn't necessarily make my favorite explanation incorrect. Glad you enjoyed!
The Academy seal is not the moon at its top. It is a rift / microcosm. (Eternal Darkness) is a hint that a great calamity occured in the past. And the origins of the Academy are from its survivors. The astrologers who imbued their souls with glintstone (becoming immortal) aka. Eternal. The oldest Conspectus is Karolos; founded by Azur. The second is Olivinus by Lusat Lusat is said to hail from Sellia, town of sorcery. And if you look at the Sellian Seal Breaker, and Sellian (Night sorceries). What looks like the moon in other Glintstone seals becomes those Giants seats in Nokstella and Nokron. I believe the original people who founded the Academy, were all one single people. The Numen Who diverged into a variety of peoples. Including the Nox, Edtree people and Hornsent. This aligns with the idea of going against the Greater Will. In the spirit or idea that they may have manipulated and made a (mistake). Regardless, there seems a period before the (procession of stars) as Spirit ashes of: Yosh. Where they coukd predict the future. And whatever was beheld has caused ALOT of trouble: The creation of a great tree, The flame, destined death, the procession of stars. Etc... A seemingly classical example of "fall from heaven". Or destruction of Atlantis or utopia. In self-fulfilled prophecy of somesort.
Very interesting take! There's nothing I'm aware of that definitively states what the moon-or-microcosm is on top of the Academy's sigil. So your take is as good as mine. But, I still think it's meant to be interpreted as the full moon. All the depictions of lightless voids are black or empty circles. Eternal Darkness and Metyr's microcosm are black circles. Ymir's high priest hat is a hollow circle that represents a "lightless void". The Maternal Staff and Staff of the Great Beyond both have a black orb. Rennala's Full Moon icon is a bright circle. The top of the Academy's sigil is the same as the top of the Carian sigil. Rennala is the Fullmoon queen of the Carians. The circle on top of the Academy sigil is white filled circle. I think it would be an odd design decision to depict lightless voids consistently as black or empty circles, but for this one on top of the Academy sigil its suddenly white. Meanwhile, the fullmoon is consistently depicted as a white circle or orb. Also worth noting: there is a black circle on the Academy sigil similar to all the lightless void depictions. At the bottom in the center of the sun. I'm curious, if you suppose the Nox, Erdtree people, and Hornsent are all descendants of the Numen, do you think there are any groups of typical bipedal humanoids in the Lands Between who existed prior to the Numen then coexisted with them? Or do you suppose the Numen mark the arrival of typical humanoid life in the Lands Between?
Great work, I wanted to say the sun on the preceptors hat looks a bit like its forming a tree and I feel like I see snakes in it, one of the hats has a map of the stars under the brim, and you can actually see space bending around the giant sun/snake/tree, like its the center of gravity. I feel like it has to do with the erdtree having the warmth of the sun and the eclipse. Its also strange but no longer surprising that the sun looks lower then the moon. I've been playing Code Vein, and the setting sun them is strong, along with the Frenzied flame. I'd also like to know what you think of the witch of Izalith, if you feel like there is an Elden ring version that is =). again amazing work though seriously, keeping in mind multiple Fromsoft titles can be exhausting
That's a really cool observation! I never thought about the sun on the Mask of Confidence is at the center of the star map on Seluvis' big hat. I think you're right! The preceptor hat is placing the sun at the center of the stars. Thanks for sharing!
GRR Martin himself said in an interview that ER was the sequel to Dark Souls. I, for one, do not think he was saying this due to cluelessness about the DS lore or misunderstanding ER and its place among From's library of games. He was likely told that he was writing lore for a game within a certain legacy of parameters, and they gave him an outline for the mechanics of the game, and he incorporated them based upon the schematic given, and thereby threaded the lore in accordance with Miyazaki's input and what he likely researched into DS lore. I give George credit for taking the concepts and themes and imparting his own ideas into the overall worldbuilding, but I also think he was indeed plotting the Pre-Shattering with a mind toward the DS lore. For one, the Ancient Dragons are not at all what GRRM would design. He is on record despising dragons that have four legs. Ergo, he included the Ancient Dragons only to honor the DS lore thitherto established, which depicts Ancient Dragons with four legs. Had it been a completely original lore then GRRM would not have allowed four-legged dragons.
You know, I've presupposed that Dark Souls and Elden Ring are in separate universes since the beginning. But to be honest.. I've been finding more and more stuff that make me think that ER may be a sequel to Dark Souls like you said. I was not aware that GRRM said it was a sequel to Dark Souls! That's huge! My GRRM lore is weak. But I've seen enough from folks like @Jackisamimic to be convinced his impact on the lore and story of ER is huge. Thanks for sharing!
@Elden_dorK if I am not mistaken, it is in the Stephen Colbert interview that George says it is a sequel to Dark Souls. Never mind. It was not the Colbert interview, but an interview with a woman.
Radagon is said to be related to the giants. Maybe Velka is the formless mother and Radagon was some incarnation. Those same fire monks and their followers are all about sin. Perhaps the star inbetween the sun and the moon on the Carian crest is the bloodstar! It could be that the greater will is the sun which is why Ranni says "here beggineth the chill night" in her ending, essentially saying no more sun, aka greater will. That certainly makes the eclipsed sun iconography more interesting! Anyway we know Marika wanted to unite with the moon so perhaps assimilating Radagon into her shaman body was her way to unite with the blood star (all things can be conjoined). Also the star's position on the carian crest matches radagon, being inbetween sun and moon and the later between sorcery and miracle. Anyway I feel like I could go on an even longer tangent but I wont. I'll just say, that there is a LOT of evidence pointing towards a shared world/universe. Is demon souls great old one like the elden beast? And did its burnt remains powered Gywn and the others? Who really is Formless Oedon? Why all the dang Fog?
Really interesting stuff! Thanks for sharing! My take (which is just as speculative as anyone else's) is that Miyazaki has been telling roughly the same story and iterating on it with each soulsborne game. So, I don't think think they exist in a shared universe, but I do think they have tons of overlap and we can use each game to fill in holes in the others. But! I could absolutely be wrong. Maybe the do exist in a shared universe. You know, I hadn't thought of this before reading your comment. But what if the "bloodstar" actually just refers to the sun. What if the sun used to be red in the era when the Fire Giants thrived? My uh.. more philosophical take on these games (I'm not an expert in philosophy, religion, or mythologies or anything..) is that a black void, aka the abyss, represents the material aspects of reality. As well as the emotional and primal aspects of humanity. Love, hate, envy, want are all related to Humanity in Dark Souls. The sun represents more spiritual and intellectual qualities. Civilization and enlightenment type stuff. And life and humanity as we know it emerges when the two merge... from the eclipse. And I think the full moon and dark moon also represent basically human life. Because the full moon is material, but it reflects the light of the sun. But, I need to put my brain to polishing all that up for a future video :P Oh! And I also like comparing the Elden Beast to the Great Old One! Because we learn in Demon's Souls that all souls, not just demon souls come from the Great Old One. And the Elden Beast appears to be the Elden Ring. And the Elden Ring appears to be the source of all runes. And runes appear to essentially be souls. And I really like the idea that Marika is containing and preventing the Elden Beast from gobbling up all of the runes/souls of every living being because runes/souls all came from the Elden Beast.
Extraordinary!!! I’m so fucking glad you agree about Radagon being the gos of the sun!!’ EEEKK!!!!! The evidence goes even further when you consider that the Nox and the shaman and the giant throne sitters in the eternal cities all have hair like Marika’s, not Radagon’s. Almost like the matriarchal “lord” figure they were trying to create may have been another Marika or Marika herself instead of the inverse which I used to think a couple of years ago! I’m so thrilled with this video and where I think the next one is going, SCOTT!!!!
Thanks so much K8!! The trouble will be deciding which video to make next. Because I was imagining making several videos that back up the claims I made about Dark Souls and Elden Ring without relying on one informing the other. But maybe I'll figure out how to make a poll or something to see what folks would be more interested to see first. Go straight into the the lord of sunlight, or take some time building the foundation of evidence first.
I cant remember if this was mentioned in this video or not, or if youve already talked about this previously, but the codename for misbegotten is "children of radagon" or something like that. Just a cool little detail.
I did not mention that! But I had it in the back of my head. I can't remember where I heard about it.. and I decided I wanted to keep the video's scope to in-game(s) references. But! I think comparing Radagon to the Mother of the Forlorn gives a good clue as to why they'd name the Misbegotten "child of Radagon" in the game files. Thanks for pointing it out!
Great video btw. I was surprised to see your channel only has two videos, considering the quality of this one. Cant wait to see more from you, now i gotta subscribe.
@calebherring1313 thanks! hehe I stand on the shoulders of giants. My friends who I linked in the video's description gave me loads of time-saving and trial-and-error avoiding advice. And set a high quality bar for me to aim for. And I went try-hard mode for a solid 3 and a half months :P And I work in computer graphics. Video editing is new to me, but I'm fortunate to already have a bunch of relevant skills.
"The miracle rooted in this ground would ONCE AGAIN mend the world" When it mended before?? The statue is a Nox... Maybe that's why the Nox had not been chased underground? A repent of that conflict? (By some theories the First Liurnian War)
I think these theories relating themes and symbols across FromSoft games hold a lot more water than people give them credit. Miyazaki has said it will take several iterations of his game for us to understand his message. I believe the true answer lies in theories like this.
Thank you for this comment! I know what you mean! Like Velka's Rare Ring of Sacrifice being stored in a chest right next to Gwynevere's Divine Blessing in a room in Sen's Fortress. The stuff in DS3 mentioning the queen of Lothric often implies that she was Gwynevere, but Velka frequently fits the mold as well. My headcannon has been that Gwynevere is a daughter of Velka and Gwyn. But I can totally see a case for Gwynevere being the same person as Velka - or an illusion/persona produced by her. Very interesting to think about!
@@Elden_dorK Ну они как бы боги. Они могут всё. :) И начинается всё даже ещё раньше. В DS1 большая чёрная ворона приносит нас к костру, под которым сидит Анастасия. Анастасия немая. Причём по собственной воле. Обет молчания?! Анастасия - дева Гвиневер. В описании комплекта одежды сказано, что такую одежду носят все девы, независимо от ранга. Даже глава дев?! Но кто их глава? Кто у нас там сидит под костром? :)
Dude! You're so right! Holy shit! I never considered that Anastacia had taken a Vow of Silence! And I've overlooked the "regardless of rank" part. And who indeed would be depicted in statue holding a baby in Firelink shrine wearing the robes and hood of the religion that she started! Thanks so much for sharing!
I've read "celes" may mean "celestial" or "heavenly. But it may also mean "hidden". And Manus is Latin for "hand". So, "Manus Celes" may mean something like "heavenly hand", but it also may mean something like "hidden hand". And there is a hand hidden underneath Manus Celes. I'm happy to lean in whichever direction feels the best fit for my headcannon in the moment on this one. Unless Fromsoft tells us the correct way to interpret or translate those names :)
Tarnished: Radagon is Velka.
Goldmask: _heavy twitching_
Then you now have the question, who is Goldmask in the Dark Souls series.......
I hate to say it but Miriel is by far (to me anyways) the BIGGEST mystery in Elden Ring hands down, why is he the only talking turtle, no remains of big shelled turtles, at all, the biggest we see, period, is in the DLC with the ancient turtles and uh their no where near the size of Miriel so as far as I'm concerned Miriel is the biggest unknown for this game.....how is he able to talk......why did they make him a "pope" religious figure, there are no photos (well paintings), no remains, on where he came from, was he sent by the greater will or did the greater will give him sentence cause there are literally no answers about this man only questions
This. He's such a random NPC that I'd like to know what is going on.
The turtles are connected with the belfries and tower societies, the Carian royal family is likely more closely related to the turtles than the astrologers given how astrologers were so entranced by her moon spells
you know now that you say it, what the FUCK is up with this turtle
He represent Martin. His symbol is the turtle and he gives out lore.
He's the greater will hiding in plain sight.
This is such a throwback to Dark Souls. Not because of the lore, but because of having to deal with someone who calls "miracles" "maracles" like my friend did back in the Dark Souls days.
haha I did record takes where I pronounced it "meeracles".. but it felt a bit inauthentic for my a-mar-ican accent :P
@@Elden_dorK Jokes aside, great video. I am deeply disturbed by your ability to tie an idea as wild as "Radagon is Elden Ring's Velka" together so well.
@@jacobperry2491 thank you!! Hehe this one is just where the evidence led me. I've been obsessed with that statue since Dark Souls 3 and recognized it in my first Elden Ring playthrough. I at first thought it must have something to do with Rennala and/or Ranni because of Velka's ties to the Darkmoon. But, the more I looked into it, the more I realized Radagon fits mold over and over again o.O
@@jacobperry2491 .. hehe and really, thank you for this comment. I was not expecting such potent flattery :P Feels good, man. I appreciate it!
Haha, I had a friend that said it that way too. What if it was the same person? 😲
Wait hold on, briar sorceries explain the stake impaled through Marika's impaled body!
Radagon impaled himself with the stake to cast the wall of thorns, leaving it in Marika to presumably continue channeling the sorcery, before Elden Beast crucified them. That way you got a god that can't do anything from the inside and an inpenetrable wall that no mortal should be able to break from the outside, powered by said God from inside it. Literally made a box and stored the only key to open it inside it.
Yes!! I love this take! And pretty much where my head's at!
I think Radagon and Marika are cooperating to stick it to the Elden Beast!
@@Elden_dorK, and elden beast even has something like scar on its belly.
This is a really great find thank you
I’ve never seen the stake described this way before… this is probably the most practical take possible about it. Like, hooooly.
Kudos!
I always thought the "stake" in her side looked like one of Mohg's slashes, just before the blood flame pops out. It always looked to me like a bloody tear in space
the singing along at the end 😂😂
At first I was like "Meeeeh. It's just a statue." Then you blew my mind XD
Hell yeah! From "meh" to mindblown is a big win for me. I'll put that in my trophy case
'You can always mush stuff together' -big tutle boy, basically
A lesson for souls lore.. and for life, really
Absolutely brilliant video, incredible attention to detail! I absolutely adored some of the shots in this video, huge production quality my friend! Wild you did this all by yourself!
Thanks so much Scum!! And thank you for your encouragement and inspiring videos as well!
THE PARALLELS THOUGH
fun time, ive never noticed the statue directly behind miriel...
but ive definitely thought about how the absolution theme runs through these souls games. its easy to wave a hand and just say "hes uncreative and reusing everything as the framework" but the framework MATTERS SO MUCH to why these games WORK.
I agree! And they don't put Absolution in every Fromsoft game. My memory could be off but I don't think it's in Demon's Souls or Bloodborne. So that the put it in Elden Ring by the same name was deliberate choice and probably has some meaning we can attempt to infer from it.
Mans predicted Nightreign
Theory: Miriel screamwd at varre when he enetred , varre immediately teleported away
Petyr, the Little Finger
He's perfectly normal size! Some might even say he's pretty above average for a finger...
Petyr Bayle-ish is the draconic warrior confirmed
Chaos is a ladder- to the black hole sun.
I was thinking you were going to say Radagon is the Blood Star but this did take a surprising swerve. There are definitely many parallels between him and Velka.
Oh! I hadn't thought of that before. I always associated the blood star with the Formless Mother in my mind... But now that you mention it, it is the red Fire Monks who have Radagon thorn sorceries that are connected to the blood star. Actually yeah, now I don't know why I thought the blood star had to do with the Formless Mother... I guess because of thorns cause bleeding.
Dude! Thanks for this tip! I have to ponder on this more.
@@Elden_dorK All things can be cojoined. Radagon cojoined TFM with the GO Fundamentalism and created thorn sorcs.
I was unconvinced at first, i still think it's a huge reach, but i can't deny that this was very fun,subbed
Thanks!!
Hehe maybe if get you to drink my coolaid as long as I've been drinking my own coolaid it will become less of a reach :P
I'm not gonna lie, mos of this feel to me as a meta reference than a clue for solving the lore.
But at the same time, there's so much that could be done by following this idea.
I was thinking about the idea of Velka marring Manus just to betray him against gwyn
After seeing how Radagon leaves Rennala in Elden Ring, I suspect that Velka may have left Manus in similar fashion. Perhaps she was bound by a duty to protect or govern the world.
Great video and great editing! I’ve never played Dark Souls but I’m now totally convinced Radagon is Velka. And excited for more videos from you!
Thanks so much SilverMooney! I'm a fan of your videos and theories too!!
19 minutes in almost at the end of the video and I’m waiting waiting waiting and then RADAGON IS MARIKA!
The idea that Marika parallels Velka is so amazing and cool. With everything we know about Marika the depth of Dark Souls just expanded, excellent work and I look forward to hearing who you think the Sun Realm King is!
Personally, I think it’s a previous iteration of Radagon
All things yearn eternally to converge, including our minds!
I thought I was crazy for thinking "I think Radagon may have lived and died before Radagon appeared leading the golden host." haha then here you are in my comments.
Previous Sun King... Well, he has Giant's hair...
And then the new Elden Ring trailer dropped and the Nameless King is in it, and a character that looks a lot like the DS3 Firekeeper....
And then my mind exploded with the implications and possibilities! I never would have guessed seeing what we see in that trailer! LET'S GOOOOO!
The moment you mentioned the dark moon as separate from the other moons I knew this video would be peak. You have a good eye for subtext and symbolism!
making elden ring part of a 4 body problem at the very least a very unstable star system that would see destruction often
The vocalizing of Radagon’s theme at the end of the video might just be my favorite thing of any Elden Ring youtube video. well done, earned my like, sub & bell hit.
haha I appreciate it!
I giggled to myself so much when I first thought of that gag. It feels real good to hear that I'm not the only one who thinks that kind of silliness is funny :P
I am absolutly blown away! I knew dark souls and Elden rings had rich backstory and lore but when I finished the video my jaw was in the floor!
Can"t wait for the search for the missing lord of sunlight!
Thanks man!! I appreciate it!
BRO THIS THEORY WAS ABSOLUTELY WILD 😭😭 One of the best theory’s I’ve seen in a while
Thanks a ton! That is an overpowered compliment. Feels good. Thank you!
This video is like a breath of fresh air compared to the majority of lore videos. Great work and you clearly have a wealth of FS game lore knowledge. I have no idea how you spotted that asset reuse but damn thats a good spot.
I agree that dark souls and elden ring are the same root story. Miyazaki gave GRRM a set of rules in the form of his past works, and G put his own spin on these worlds, but the story is pretty much the same.
I believe M tells the same story of the human consciousness in DS, BB and ER. The only difference between games is whos mind we are in.
Kindling, consciousness, Instincts, emotions, memories, logic, ideology, beliefs, ethics, illness and mind altering trauma. Nearly all characters in game can be tied to an aspect or sub aspect of the mind or something that has been sensed which alters any of these aspects, outer influences if you will.
Everyone at some point considers the meanings of life and consciousness. Miyazaki loves the topic of life's biggest mysteries and most poignant questions. Making games which wrap up this curiousness in a fantasy skin highlighting the paradox of life itself.
A story everyone fundamentally relates to is always going to be a good story, even if the answers remain a mystery.
Looking forward to the next video for sure!
I 100% agree with you on this. There is a mystery of human consciousness hidden in this game and it is going to be so cool to unravel it together. DS, BB, & ER are modern myths that we are analyzing. Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell uncovered truths of human psychology by analyzing myths (Jung: anima/animus, the shadow, the archetypes, collective unconscious; Campbell: the hero's journey, among others that I am less familiar with). We're doing the same things and will discover the same + new things ourselves.
Hehe to be honest, I instantly recognized that statue on my very first playthrough back in 2022. I didn't make the Radagon connection until earlier this year.
I've been obsessed with that statue since Ashes of Ariandel released back in.. was it 2016? I attempted to write a script for a lore video back then about it but nothing came of it.
And I'm completely with you about the story and the Miyazaki/GRRM collaboration. To add to it a bit, my friend @Jackisamimic explained that Miyazaki has been a fan of GRRM for a long time before they ever met. There's a good shot that even as far back as Dark Souls elements of its story were inspired by GRRM's work which would have included several books of A Song of Ice and Fire by then.
And I've had similar thoughts when I have asked myself "why do I spend so much time thinking about Dark Souls lore? Why don't I get so hooked on other games' lore?"
And I think that the root story is that's motivating all the drama we play through and all the lore we try to parse and understand... the root of it is a relatable human story.
@NamelessSingerEldenRing I'm so with you! I started reading Campbell's The Hero with a Thousand Faces some years ago when I was replaying Dark Souls. And there were bits that I remember thinking "Did.. Miyazaki read this?"
There's a bit in the beginning (that I will probably butcher due my unreliable memory) about how the soul coming through a fiery portal that is the sun and the hero must conquer the serpent that comes from the abyss by using the dragon power of challenging the hero's dragons.
I 'ought to look it up. Because I was thinking "this must be some pattern-seeking cognitive bias that it sounds so similar to my favorite game..."..... or is it!?
@@NamelessSingerEldenRing agreed :)
Great to see Vaati giving you a mention! Good stuff. I'll be watching your content shortly.
This is actually insanely exciting, covering two huge mysteries from two separate games at once.
"Does this mean ER and DS exist in a shared universe?"
GRRM: Well, ye-
X to doubt
haha I'm making a "my bad takes" Short right now that will most definitely include "... shared universe? No. I seriously doubt it." I'm not gonna pretend that I ever anticipated anything like the Nightreign announcement trailer :P
Good news is you didn't let the doubts stop you from speaking your shit anyways, and now the rest of the video holds up even better
great video! looking forward for more!
Your rendition of the soundtrack is amazing
haha thanks so much!
Very good catch. Brilliant way to connect different game lores on a meta level to make an interesting theory, and still managing to contain them in their respective stories. Well done!
Thanks a ton! It's a tricky balance for trying to judge if it makes sense to infer one game's details from another's. I try to make sure a theory can stand on its own within its own game, but use the other games to give me clues where to look.
You’re delight when connecting Radagon to Velka and therefore Marika is Velka was wonderful. I love seeing the connections between ER and DS. So much of ER is a love poem to FromSoft’s other games. Please bring more to us fellow nerds of dark souls who have made loving these games their whole personality.
haha I love hearing that there are more like-minded people like me out there! Thank you for the encouragement because I do indeed have more DS and ER videos planned!
I think there's a lot of Fromsoft's other games in ER as well. And I am a pretty big nerd about Bloodborne and Demon's Souls lore as well.. but definitely not at the same scale as my Dark Souls lore nerdiness.
I lived and breathed bloodborne lore for awhile. My happiness when I first entered a catacomb was unspeakable. As a weirdo who really enjoyed the chalice dungeons I was really glad to see an iteration of them in ER.
Holy hell, this is good. Awesome attention to detail. I always figured the hooded statues in Elden Ring tie to Radagon/Marika somehow, I never would've thought of a Velka connection. I always figured the hooded statue was a younger version of Radagon, going about the Lands Between, keeping his identity a secret.
I was mostly oblivious to the hooded statues until I started watching @Jackisamimic's videos. He does a great breakdown of the evidence of why they depict Radagon. KiteTales has a great one too. Both links are in the description.
I recognized the Caitha statue on my very first playthrough because I've been obsessed with that statue since long before Elden Ring launched. But it wasn't until @Jackisamimic opened my eyes to the Sun Realm in Elden Ring that I realized the Caitha/Radagon connection.
Golden Order Fundamentalism was created after Radagon became the King-Consort.
Thorns seem to be older. Radagon used that mark during Godfrey's era when he married Rennala. Thorns are also used by Fire Monks, who were active at the very beginning of Godfrey's era.
As for Marika, we know that she had Erdtree Incantations since the beginning of Godfrey's era. (statues in Mountaintops Churches are missing one braid; so her last visit to the Shaman Village must have happened right after creation of the Erdtree) At that time, she was full of hopes, and it makes sense for her to use the healing magic.
Is it possible that Marika, like Radagon, has switched her school of magic according to her state of mind? Like, could her doubts cause a creation of the Black Flame and the Godskins? And also her other identity, which was later defeated by Maliketh.
It feels like... they are multiplying.
Great observations!
I think there are lots of good reasons to think the Gloam Eyed Queen was Marika. And there are so many weird fantasy mechanics that could potentially explain these all being the same-yet-different people.
There are mimic tears putting cloning on the table. There are the brothers D who are twins with two bodies but one soul. There are deathbed companions who apparently are able to reincarnate people. A piece of himself that Miquella discarded became a fully autonomous individual. Miquella transformed his body from a child's body to an adult body and then into an adult spirit body thing that hugs Radahn.. There are shadow-bound beast siblings.
I don't know what the precise mechanics are. But I'd say there an abundance of plausible explanations for why GEQ, Marika, and Radagon could have all been the same person somehow.
Yesssss King, omg this video is kicking butt. Keep it coming man, Miyazaki said we would need to know his other games to get ER and you are finding a very coherent thread of info.
Thank you so much!! I'd love to know where Miyazaki said that! I haven't heard it and that's huge!
Can't believe more than two years in these geniuses still come up with incredible finds, this game is gonna live forever
@@Elden_dorK I read multiple people on reddit saying that a few months ago
Miriel is the Avatar of The Greater Will gently guiding and experiencing the Lands Between.
( I know this is not the case but I like the thought so I'm sticking to it )
lol you know.. maybe not like in a explicit narrative sense.
But I'm in the boat that the Greater Will is a stand-in for Miyazaki and GRRM. They imagined/created this world. Set the stage with characters and motivations. Puppeteered their fates. Then abandoned their creations when they ship the game. The NPC's can't communicate with Miyazaki or GRRM anymore. The Greater Will can't influence the characters any longer - they're gone. Now it's in the hands of us the players.
And Miriel is a nod to GRRM's affection of turtles. He's so knowledgable because he's a stand-in for GRRM. And GRRM is part of the Greater Will.
So "Miriel is the Avatar of The Greater Will" is actually a super easy sell for me. I dig it. I'm in.
Welp, I'm here for this theory train! Also, I'll post here too that now that youve shown Radagon casting the thorn sorceries, I'm convinced that's not destined death impaling Marika, but a giant barb of Briars of Punishment and that Radagon is the one who cast it. Great video!
Couldn't be happier to have you onboard!
I've been thinking the same thing about that red spear lately!! And and! It makes me think maybe all those dead giant corpses on the Mountaintops of the Giants who are so uniformly impaled while kneeling... Maybe dying in battle isn't the best explanation for them. Maybe they ritually sacrificed themselves o.O similar to how the Fire Monks in the area do when they cast their thorn sorceries.
My head's totally in the same place yours is on that!
How the bloody fuuk did Vatti and Hawkshaw miss this?
Radagon is the Finaly boss. His ost is the Main Screen Ost.
He is The 1st Cardinal(red) Sin
Because Vaati is a hack
And his banished son thinks his mother is to blame... 😢
@allthe1 yeah! What better way to create scorn than blame others?
@@kamantariq2513 everything in the DLC feels tragic
Because they are both frauds, and provide no insights, that's why
Idk why the idea that Radagon veiled the land of shadow never occurred to me. Although it does make alot of sense. Possibly another tragic reason for Marika to break the Elden Ring
It's pretty understandable that the common interpretation is that Marika veiled the Land of Shadow. Messmer's Remembrance heavily implies that she did... but even so there is some wiggle room to allow for it being Radagon who did the veiling. And if nothing else, Radagon is Marika so.. If Radagon is the one who actually did the act of the veiling then it would still be in line with Messmer's Remembrance.
@ yea there’s a lot of characters naming “Marika” specifically in the dlc. Could be an effect of the veil itself even that for some reason his name is totally unknown to them all. Even the individuals like Leda and Ansbach who should be be somewhat aware of him as lord.
Or it was so sudden between that Godfrey -> Radagon power change that people in it didn’t get to see Radagon in power. But again. Some characters should know of him despite that
@@GrieveIVWell, even Big Dog Pope asks himself how a "mere champion" has taken Godfrey's place at Marika's side. He seems as baffled as anyone else at Radagon's origins and ascension
@ which is funny to think about in that like. In a lot of ways Godfrey was also a “champion” in similar regards.
Interesting though how various characters perceive him. Such an anomaly
@@Elden_dorK
@Elden_dorK I'll TLDR you the lore theory that supports your theory. It's explained in more detail with more evidence by far better TH-camrs.
So, the Hornsent are a very religious people and decide to create a God with far too much alchemical connotation.
The recipe is genocide and the law of convergence. Start with alot of torture, take Hornsent flesh and shaman flesh, put them in jars of all sizes, and the biggest jar wound up spitting out their successful hermaphrodite God.
(I believe Zully the Witch may have posted a Marika in game model without hair and her bald head has the jar seal on it.)
(The law of convergence association is a beast on its own and I can't remember all the facts. It's like, you have the snake eating people to attain godhood through taking their power, grafting to gain the power of others, and the giant flame wanting to unify all life into one life.)
The Hornsent then enrishined the biggest jar.
The smaller jars wound up spitting out failure hermaphrodites that were grafted onto the Emir giant castle of hermaphrodite body horror.
The successful hermaphrodite God would potentially be a young version of both Marika and Radgon. A version that was more singular in its goal of revenge for suffering and genocide. Two souls that were similar enough in thought and motivation to be considered the exact same person until they developed different opinions and became their own people.
And why have jar genocide of all things? Alchemical stuff, the resulting jar hemaphrodite being is supposed to have some kind of change of their soul and make them into saints, and the being is a jar for the Elden Ring.
The DLC going on about Marika's flesh being bad? Well, that flesh was the result of countless people being thrown in a genocide blender that was attached to one shaman female with torture and infection. After that, the flesh was poisoned by either Godhood or hatred.
Somebody better get this video to Saint Riot, and quickly!
…great job! You’ve drawn some very compelling parallels! Keep up the good work!
I appreciate the encouragement! Thanks a ton!
That's it, I'm subbing. I've been saying for years, elden ring, souls, and bloodborne, aren't in the same universe. But! If you layer their images on top of one another they complete a much bigger picture. Just sprinkle in some norse lovecraft and Arthurian legend to fill any remaining holes
100% precisely where my head's at too!
My GRRM lore is pretty weak - but I'm convinced GRRM lore is keeping good company with the other lore sprinkles.
@@Elden_dorKDefinitely check out Preston Jacobs for deep GRRM lore and tropes
This is awesome! Most exciting lore video I've seen in a while. Dark Souls parallels, let's gooooo!
Thank you so much!
I feel like such a fool. I don’t know how the connection between Radagon and thorns didn’t click for me
I can relate. I think I've had the same feeling multiple times just reading the comments on my video. There's just so much to Elden Ring that I frequently have the feeling of "how did I not notice that before someone told me? It seems so obvious now!" :P
This theory made me dizzy, confused and excited. Subbed.
Very interesting video! It’s always fun to find clues in earlier FromSoft games to help decode Elden Ring’s lore. Can’t wait to see where you go from here!
Velka has always the most captivating character to me, and this just blew my mind. Hell of a theory.
Thank you so much! hehe I've had an obsession with her myself.
@Elden_dorK I had the makings of a Velka theory, but my dark horse was Melina... especially if she was/is the gloam-eyed queen.
Yours is way more convincing and well put together. Haha
My thinking was pretty in line with yours, most likely. I recognized the statue instantly in my first playthrough of ER because I have abandoned scripts for Dark Souls 3 lore videos I never made. Hehe I recognized that statue the moment I saw it.
But! for the longest time I tried to connect to Melina or Ranni or both (since Melina and Ranni are so uncomfortably similar yet different). And the Radagon connection didn't occur to me until fairly recently after watching Jackisamimic's videos about the Sun Realm. I thought the Church of Vows was about Rennala and the moon. And therefore the easter egg statue must have something to do with Ranni and therefore maybe Melina.
But after Jack's and KiteTale's videos (linked in the description) convinced me that the hooded man statues are Radagon... It suddenly clicked. The Laws of Causality/Regression.. the Mask of Confidence... the thorns, the sin... it all just fell like dominoes for me earlier this year :P
So believe me, I totally understand where you're coming from!
@Elden_dorK just to throw a raw idea into the gears... I also toyed with that being Elden John, but it would have to be even older than the Nox and claymen... and it is nowhere near as busted as the old man statues... pretty close in proximity to the Altus Plateau ruins though.
That's what I love about these games. There are a thousand things that could connect a thousand ways, and everyone has a hot take.
Anyway, I love the videos. Keep up the wonderful work!
Ok that music mumbling got me rolling
that outro had me ROLLING oh my god
THE GOAT
Please make more videos, this has been so good. I would love (as I said in my other comment) a revisit of the three sisters or a video on the eternal cities.
Thank you! I have started on the next video as well as a couple Shorts. Life and work haven't left me with much time or energy over the last few weeks. But things are calming down now and I'm planning to make some progress during my upcoming time off.
Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Congratulations, this video is a masterpiece. You nailed it and deserve much success. Subscribed.
Thank you so very much!! Your videos are a huge inspiration! Not to mention eye opening! Not to mention extremely useful reference material!
Thank you thank you!
Now THAT is lore hunting!!
After the new dlc reveal, youve got my ear.
I am HYPED! Gonna try and get some videos out soon!
bro cooked im literally crying and shidding
I've been particularly interested in Elden Ring's sun; so, this was a surprisingly interesting video.
I've long figured that Velka was once Gwyn's wife and was responsible for protecting Priscilla.
However, I thought that Velka's ER analogue was the Gloam-Eyed Queen due to the similar amount of mystique surrounding them, and the relationship between the words "gloam" and "dusk" have me thinking about her in relation to the sun.
But I cannot deny that Radagon has a similar mystique about him, and you make a compelling case for his being Velka's stand-in in this world.
Great video. I'm interested to see more.
I also have heard people theorize that the hooded statues are Radagon, but I have not seen why; so, I'm excited to watch the two videos you've suggested.
Thank you so much! And.. you know, depending on your headcannon, your theory that the Gloam Eyed Queen is Velka's analogue is not mutually exclusive with my claim. Because there are reasons to suspect that the Marika used to be the Gloam Eyed Queen in one way or another.
So if the GEQ is Marika, and Marika is Radagon... and Radagon is Velka.
I hope you watch the videos I linked! I think they're great!
Short version:
Misbegotten pray to the hooded statue. Lionine misbegotten wield the Iron Greatsword which is the same sword the statues wield. Except the boss of the Cave of the Forlorn who wields Radagon's Golden Order Greatsword.
Radagon was a champion first, then studied sorceries under Rennala, then incantations under Marika. The statues we find come in three variations: sword wielding champion, book wielding scholar, and the torch wielding one in the church of vows where Radagon married Rennala.
They're found in the highest concentration around Radagon-influenced areas. The Lunar Cathedrals in Liurnia where he was King through marriage to Rennala. And in Leyndell where he was Elden Lord.
18:10 YOU BETTER BE SHARING THE EVIDENCE AFTER THAT SOUNDTRACK
as a person who never got to play Dark Souls series myself I appreciate the work you put into this video, it explains a lot and gives me food for thought! definitely subscribing for further education ✍️
Thank you so much! I will post a poll soon to see what folks are most interested in seeing next. Because I don't think I justify all the claims I made in just one video. I'll have to split them up a bit :)
We are so back, brother. The LORE is not dead
Helllll yeah! I'm feeling what you're feeling!!
Yes excellent spot on the Caitha/Velka statues.
IMO the GEQ is one big Velka & Friede reference...
- Purple eyes. Friede has purple eyes, she assumed Velka's form and those eyes weren't present in the painting where she's wearing all white. Purple is tied to darkness in Dark Souls, which Velka likes. Caitha sheds red and blue tears - combine that, you get purple. A purple tear is summoned by the Londor miracles.
In Elden Ring, the red and blue branchswords function identically to Caitha's rings. The Twinbird like the GEQ is associated with death, and Melina's eye is sealed by a bird's foot, more specifically - a crow's.
- Vargram is GEQ's knight and he wields a spiral sword, his friend is named Wilhelm, same as Friede's knight Vilhelm (exactly the same in Japanese too)
- Blackflame!
- Melina's body got burned like Friede and she also wears a hood upon her first meeting. Her hair literally goes black during the reveal cutscene.
- The godskins themselves are hooded and pale white with serpentine traits, they wield a peeler and a stitcher and pose a threat to the gods... Kind of like Priscilla, who's whole existence is threatening to the gods due to the darkness in her body, and who is also a pale white child with serpentine (dragon) traits who wields a scythe (peeler) and a rapier (stitcher). Priscilla is kind of implied to be Velka's child via the dark associations and Velka's statue holding a little girl, which upon turning reveals the way to Priscilla...
- Irina serves as sort of a foil to Caitha in DS3. The conspicuously named Irina in Elden Ring is also the ying to Melina's yang, where both are maidens but she likes the frenzied flame while Melina doesn't...
- Interesting dichotomy also where Melina presents herself to be all compassionate to even Boc but harbors a dark secret, like Caitha and Velka. And it also fits the while empyrean split aspect which Miyazaki mentioned in an interview.
- On the godskin peeler the GEQ is posing with a baby in a swaddling cloth, like the Velka statue in Firelink Shrine
Not trying to say "Melina is GEQ is Velka is Caitha" outright, but the parallels are interesting...
Nice, someone finally has a Radagon connection. Great find.
I wonder what you would think of the lore theorist Firelink Conspiracy. He is my favorite for Dark Souls lore. He has Velka as part of a conspiracy to drain the sun of souls and leave it as the drained black-void. That the Occult rebellion was successful, and Gwen was forced to link the fire. Linking the fire will return souls from the sun, and lessening the amount of dregs or the pooling abyss. I generally see Radagon as a type of Luciferian "fallen-star" who is trying to usurper a crown. Radagon conspiracy
Thanks!
I have seen a couple of The Firelink Conspiracy's videos and really like his perspective! I learned a couple interesting things and think we share some parallel thinking.
I diverge a bit when it comes to who is and isn't a nefarious actor. But I really like his analysis!
@Elden_dorK Nice. I am looking forward to your future videos! Exciting times for the lore community
Always thought she was a reference to the shroom from ds 1 and the hidden massive exposition dump turtle in daggerfall
Cool observations. I don't think any of the many inspirations for Elden Ring (mythology, history, GRRM, Dark Souls, etc.) are 1:1 so I think the last portion of this video is a bit far for my taste lol.
Is it possible that Radagon, and Velka's iterations are not the same person, but more akin to the same archetypes returning through different people. The Law of Regression.
Personally I think Radagon was just some Misbegotten who led the Morne rebellion. Radagon's whole character seems to be of a champion of mankind and in turn the Tarnished. Also I'm pretty sure said random Misbegotten from Morne was called Hewg.
Did I read correctly that you're suggesting that Hewg is Radagon? Because... I've honestly never considered that before. And.. that's a really cool idea! They're both trapped inside the Erdtree! They're both smiths! And Radagon is undeniably associated with the Misbegotten.
I love it. I'm going to ponder on this!
Hehe I don't think Radagon and Velka are narratively the same person. I think they are two separate and distinct characters. But I do think Miyazaki's story that he handed of to GRRM included a Velka-like character who did Velka-like things for Velka-like reasons.
@@Elden_dorK Oh yes I am suggesting Radagon is (or was) Hewg haha. Glad to see someone take so kindly to it lmao.
Outside of what you listed, one of my favorite pieces of "evidence" is how his shackles burn when the Erdtree burns. He is free to leave the Roundtable/The Erdtree (the stone platform is round, and I believe the Roundtable Hold is essentially a Rememberance.
Yet they both refuse to leave their posts, bound by duty. I absolutely LOVE the relationship between Roderika (Marika) and Hewg (Radagon). Relistening to their dialogue through this lens is so interesting to me, and I honestly think explains a lot.
But what I love even more is how Hewg forgets everything he knows, BUT his duty to smith the God-Slaying Weapon (The Tarnished). My favorite implication is that Radagon has been sentient, like Hewg this whole time, but forgets everything but his purpose at the very end.
Also I actually am not entirely convinced the Thorns are from Radagon, the thorns could have easily been made into the shape of Radagon's Rune as opposed to just having Radagon's Rune behind them. Could they be coming from the Scadutree? Idk
Dude!! I love this!
Like, copy/pasting into my notes right now.
I see it so clearly now how Rodrika and Hewg echo Marika and Radagon! Like, it was invisible before and now obvious o.O This is dope.
I'm not certain I'm convinced that they're literally Marika and Radagon. But every since playing Dark Souls 3 I've believed that Miyazaki has been retelling NPC story arks from game-to-game and even within the game. Like I think Irina and Eygon's story gives us information about Reah of Thorolund from Dark Souls.
And within Elden Ring especially.. I think things like Tannith and the Volcano Manor questline are meant to be an echo or retelling of past events in Elden Ring.
And I've always had the feeling Rodrika's quest must be one of these echoes.. hinting at something bigger. But I never considered Hewg!
I also like this take, because I've always liked the idea that Marika and Radagon aren't antagonistic to each other, rather they're cooperating. And Rodrika's and Hewg's relationship could reveal insights that support that idea!
Ah man, it works so well. Rodrika deals with spirits. Hewg deals with material weapons. Marika's soreseal boosts spiritual attributes and Radagon's the physical.
Really appreciate you sharing these insights!
@@Elden_dorKThanks man
Ngl I almost turned the video off during the intro, because I’ve never seen any of your videos before and thought maybe this was just a really long parody. Glad I stuck it out cause this was very convincing and I don’t even know anything about Dark Souls.
Thanks for the feedback! I had concerns that my Miriel impersonation gag may not land as well as it did in my imagination.
I think for future videos I will aim for a snappier intro that reflects the overall tone and content of the video to avoid giving the impression this is 100% silly stuff.
But.. I also don't think I can manage to motivate myself to make a video unless I throw in some stuff that makes me giggle.
But really! I appreciate the feedback. I can factor it in and adjust the balance and timing in future videos!
Not only a beautifully edited, but also wicked smart video! The comparisons are just spot on, holy moly.. talk about a mind blown. Makes me wish i'd paid more attention to DS1 lore when i played it T_T
Color me excited for your next video!!
wow! This is such a nice comment to read!! Thank you thank you!
I'm going to try and watch your video today! The title is hilarious! And it came out pre-DLC before everyone started talking about jars. You've caught my curiosity :)
@@Elden_dorK You're very welcome! After all this time watching elden ring content it's awesome to still get to be surprised and amazed again about the lore from newer creators like you! And thank YOU so much as well wtf, i didn't expect you'd even see my jar video lol :D At the time my friends just told me i was nuts and to stop obsessing over textures and symbolism loool, but i'm glad it paid off by having a lore wizard like yourself acknowledge it!!
Recently, Ive been pondering the Ertree and its ghostly glow... Specifically wondering if when the Erdtree was burned up previously (and scattered the seeds we find), it didnt get a thin ghostly coating we all THINK is the bright and shiny Erdtree. It would explain the dead, blackened tree we find above the model AND the split husk in Morgott's arena outside. Also, the dark and lifeless interior would also make sense as the result of being hollowed out with fire. We need the Giant's flame and the Rune of Death to initiate the killing of the Erdtree's SOUL, not its body.
It even has the echoes the idea of a dead corporeal form with a living spirit, which we see with Miquella and Godwin both (you could even argue that Mohg had the opposite effect of his body living after his soul is dead and gone.) The concept of body and soul existing seperately is a pretty regular event during the story.
The theory of the Erdtree being an illusion isnt a nerw theory but I feel like the variables havent been discussed really anywhere yet.
anyway, if it is worth looking into, I thought I would share it here, on my new favorite head trip of a lore video.
Oh man, I just read your comment now after watching Nameless Singer's video that she released yesterday and I think what you're saying here is right in line with what she is saying.
And I'm pickin' up what you're puttin' down.
You got yourself a subscriber! I definitely think this opens up a lot more theories that can be verified or not. Super cool!
Thanks so much!!
Amazing research, presentation and theory! I always thought that there was more DNA between the two games than people cared to admit- like Friede and Ariandel resembling GEQ and the Fire Giants etc… I love your take and have always seen Marika as a dark lunar figure rather than sun aligned, even though her bed is the right size for Gwynevere! Your parallels between the two games spells is really compelling. I remember GRRM said that he was initially pitched to work on Dark Souls 4, which is to be taken with a grain of salt but I think it’s interesting that’s what the FromSoftware team were referring to internally in its initial development.
oh wow! I'd love to know where GRRM said that or the source that that's what Fromsoft referred to it ass internally. It could come in handy in justifying some future claims ;)
And good call on Friede and Ariandel resembling GEQ and the Fire Giants! Like, I'm embarrassed I have not considered that before o.O
I mean, of course I thought about surface level stuff like they both have black flame. But your comment's got me thinking... Thinking about how much Ariandel's bowl looks like the Lord Vessel. And how much the Giant's Forge looks like a Lord Vessel.
And how Friede arrived after the Mother of the Forlorn and she is impersonating her. Most theorizing I've seen about the GEQ and even my own has Marika mimicking the GEQ.. but what if GEQ was the one mimicking Marika!?
Dude! Thanks for sharing.
I wonder if the dark woman statue (literally made of a dark material) in the church at the Precipice of Anticipation is related? Similar pose only palm down. She is the first we see, like in Alchemy's nigredo. The blackened remains of the previous cycle and from which the cycle restarts anew. Bloodborne also has connections. Caged Divinity Miquella and Mensis Caged Micolash. The completed map overlays Elden Rings, with the Forbidden Woods lining up with Mountaintop of the Giants - literally the icy lake lines up with a corresponding hole shape in the Bloodborne map. Nightmare of Mensis lines up with the Shadow of the Erdtree area. Its is crazy to see!
Woah, I've never heard about Bloodborne's and Elden Ring's maps aligning like that! Sounds very cool!
Weellll, I believe that statue you're referring to is made of bronze or copper. And I believe it depicts one of the Three Sisters. And I don't have the whole thing puzzled out yet. But I think Marika may be one of the Three Sisters.
You can find a couple other statues made of the same material but depicting either a different pose or different women. Commonly found in the Hero's Graves and a bunch of broken ones found near Godwyn's creepy face in Stormveil.
IT IS TIME
THE SECRETS WILL FINALLY BE REVEALED
Wow, I did not expect you to crack the whole series open with this. Apparently it's turtle pope's all the way down. =\
PS: I've heard a few people suggest that Velka was Gwyn's consort and I think it has always been an undersung plot point. Bravo on rekindling the story of THE central character of the entire series. =)
Thank you so much!!
I've suspected Velka was queen or consort of Anor Londo since... I think sometime around when Dark Souls 3 launched and I replayed DS1 again. Some stuff clicked for me. Before then I was on board with what seems to be the more commonly held theory that Velka was antagonistic towards Gwyn.
But then I found a bunch of stuff I plan to make a video about and convinced myself otherwise :)
Then Elden Ring directly tells us "Radagon repaired the world and was King Consort."
@@Elden_dorK It is crazy how much Elden Ring felt like it was all 3DS games rolled into one.
To me the part that sold it for me was the line from DS2, about how all the gods might be the same as other gods but with different names.
Myself, I love anthropology and have been pouring over ancient religions relentlessly because of DarkSouls and Elden Ring and I only ever feel like I see the whole thing when looking at at all of those parts at once.
In fact, there is a common thread in religions of the past ot all have been constantly borrowing from each-other and riffing on each-other and one city's god was another city's adversary God. Many have linked Odin with Bacchus, who were both gods of rage and alcohol. Bacchus was also linked with Osirus with the diety Dionysus-Osiris. This creates a through-line of possibly one god from Egypt to the Netherlands.
A couple of other names that pop-out linclude but are hardly limited to:
Zurvan
Phanes
Hermes Trismegistus
Apep
Ra/Horus
Hathor
Moses
Mithras
Yaweh/Set
Baal
Beezlebub
Dagon
Sabazios
Amun
and Aten
I'm sorry for the long list, it could probably have been about ten times longer.
I tried to keep it focused.
Anyhow, best of luck on your coming videos. I look forward to seeing where this hot head of steam caries you. You've really grabbed the bull of creation by the horns, as they say. =D
THIS IS INSANE
If you told me Radagon is Velka without any evidence you'd be laughed off the internet, but the connections are undeniable.
haha honestly, I truly understand the sentiment! As a consumer of many-a-lore video myself I'm pretty skeptical of out-of-game stuff like this. But, I mean, the devs put the statue there to tell us something. If it was scattered throughout the Lands Between maybe it could be dismissed as asset reuse like the giant crabs. But it's just the one statue in just the right spot. I think it counts :)
Thanks for the comment!
Considering the new standalone game ER: Nightreign, featuring what may be Nameless King and hooded figure that is very very similar to Fire Keeper, you may have been unto something regarding ER and DS being somewhat connected via that Velka statue...
I just saw the trailer and oh man my mind is spinning with implications!
Beautiful work!!!! Loves it!!!!
Thank you so much!!
Loved this video! 😊
It's very fitting that the word "velka" means "debt" in finnish, and she can give absolution.
For real? That's awesome! I didn't know her name meant something in Finnish. I knew Gwyn means "white" in Welsch though.
Thanks for sharing!
Keep up the good work ✨
Thank you so much!
Thanks for the info about that statue, I broke my head thinking about who is the old lady depicted with it.
My pleasure! I wanted to make a Dark Souls 3 lore video about it ages ago, but I didn't manage. So I've held an obsession with that statue for awhile. When I first saw it in Elden Ring I flipped out :P
I at first thought it must have something to do with Rennala or Ranni. But the more I dug into the more I realized, it's Radagon.
It's kind of a minor thing, but I never see anyone mention that Velka is clearly based on Zorro. Watch the opening sequence of the 90s "Zorro" anime. Zorro does a cool double slash that is very similar to the unique strong attack on Velka's sword in DS1! This double slash actually forms a "V" which is instantly reminiscent of Zorro's habit of cutting the letter Z as a mark of his presence. And of course the mask and leathers of the Black Set in DS1 are a pretty close match to Zorro's outfit. So it's clear that "Velka" was a pseudonym adopted by a charismatic leader fighting an oppressive order, much like Zorro.
It's interesting that the new motion to cast Law of Regression is the rebalancing of the arms, when the spell itself has been rebalanced from Vow of Silence (it has about 2-3x the range but no longer prevents casting, only deleting buffs). I feel like Corhyn these days, sitting outside the colosseum waiting, interpreting signs, hoping for a decent balance patch. How long will we be stuck with these intentionally unbalanced patches before they refine things a bit? Somebody slip me a Potion of Forgetfullness and burn this game down.
haha I'm not gud enough to even try to participate in PvP so I don't have an opinion on Law of Regression outside of its huge lore implications.
Interesting comparison! I have to admit my Zorro lore is non-existent outside of "he wears black and cuts Z's with a sword". I didn't know he was a charismatic leader.
AND SOLD. Let's see what you're cooking, 'cause you are most certainly a bloody chef.
Thank you so much!
I've got some more heating up in the kitchen. Comments like this get me excited to work on it!
wow GREAT video!
I don't think Velka tried to contain the Abyss. If anything, she wanted to bring about the Age of Man.
As Saint_Riot once pointed out, the Chosen Undead is delivered to Lordran on this crow/raven (a symbol of Velka), is put on the path of Linking the First Flame, yet while doing so kills all of the Gods of the previous era, wrests away their Great Souls, burns them and gains their power, and then kills the herald of the previous age, denounces the First Flame and starts the Age of Man.
And then in Dark Souls 3, we see much the same thing happen, but this time with the Church of Londor (which not only has ties to Velka, but also Kaathe who actively seeks to start the Age of Man) as the sponsors of the Ashen One. We see the Ashen One take power away from the Gods of the previous age, and usher in an Age of Man.
Or maybe this is a completely incorrect reading of the Souls games.
P.S.:
Thinking on this more, it might be the case that Radagon isn't the stand-in for Velka, but her opposite, her mirror, in some ways. The most obvious start is their gender of course. But their in-game counterparts, Gwyn and Marika, also did different things, opposite even.
Gwyn sought to continue his reign and his Age, yet Marika chose to destroy it. Velka sought to end Gwyn's Age, yet Radagon chose to mend Marika's.
But it is true that other parallels persist, such as Gwyn allying with the Pygmy Lords, while betraying them by banishing them (and their Ringed Knights to the inaccessible Ringed City) and by Linking the Fire to Humanity; Marika, similarly, allied her Order with the Hornsent, yet eventually betrayed them by banishing them (and their Banished Knights! by making the Land of Shadow inaccessible) and by persecuting those with aspects of the Crucible (namely, the horned Omen).
Those are fair interpretations!
I hope to convince you in future videos of some of my interpretations :)
I disagree that Velka is trying to end the Age of Fire. I do agree that she is the primary agent orchestrating the Chosen Undead's arrival in Lordran. Setting them on a course to harvest the most powerful souls remaining in Lordran. And (where I diverge from you) deliver the souls to the Kiln and rekindle the First Flame. The myth of the Chosen Undead is a fail-safe in the event the other Lords refused to follow in Gwyn's footsteps and preserve the Age of Fire. The age of civilization, cooperation, and enlightenment.
All signs indicate that the Age of Dark is an end of civilization. Where the living are consumed with strong emotions like love, greed, want, and hate. A cold and lightless world.
Gwyn proved that the First Flame can be fed and rekindled with a powerful soul. But the time his sacrifice bought is running out by the time DS1 begins. The Fire needs new souls and the remaining Lords refuse to return to their thrones ;)
Londor and the Sable Church do as you describe. And they do have ties to Velka. But they don't follow Velka. They take their orders from Darkstalker Kaathe.
New Londo decorates their temple with statues of Velka. Yet when the Four Kings were corrupted by the Abyss and the Darkwraiths threatened the rest of Lordran, it was Velka who flooded the entire city to contain them. It wasn't Gwyn, he had already sacrificed himself by the time of the flooding. Before he left he was on good terms with the Four Kings and gifted a part of his Lord Soul.
And just like the Sable Church in Dark Souls 3, it wasn't Velka who tempted the Four Kings. It was Kaathe.
Hehe and I do not think Marika is Gwyn's stand-in in Elden Ring :)
I think Elden Ring has its own Lord of Sunlight. Carefully but not completely hidden.
@@Elden_dorK I am definitely looking forwards to your new discoveries and your new videos!
I do see your interpretation of the matters, and they definitely hold water! Especially the gathering of Lord Souls, Velka's works as not only a counterpart to Gwyn but also an integral part of his Age, as well as her presence in New Londo.
Though I find it hard to justify certain parts - like the Age of Dark being less civilized.
We dont have much to go on for what that Age is like; it seems static at least, like Dark Firelink Shrine.
We do have the ancient times at the Oolacile Sanctuary and the Chasm of the Abyss. If the Abyss becomes widespread in the Age of Dark, and the inhabitants of the Abyss are more primal and shamanistic (as indicated by Manus and the Oolacile Sanctuary), then a decrepit Age of Dark checks out (even linguistically!)
Yet there's the Sable Church, and all of Londor itself.
That civilization does not seem crude and decrepit, in fact it seems very advanced, with a great deal of effort put into their grand gothic architecture, just like the civilizations of the old Gods. Maybe DS3 retcons things a bit? Or... maybe Carim, the gothic civilization previously aligned with the Way of White, fell to Kaathe's temptation. Ah, typical toothy snake.
That aside, I'm also still not quite sold on Velka being on the side of the Age of Fire.
Sin is her domain. She punishes or forgives, but generally opposes Sin.
It would be odd if Velka was okay with the First Sin, related to Fire or the cycle. It would be even more odd if Caitha (who we assume is Velka), the Goddess of Tears who weeps for the dead, would be okay with continuing the Age of Fire, when Man assumes a fleeting form and can truly die.
Seems to me that Velka's interests align with the end of Fire. Maybe I'm still seeing it wrong. Or maybe DS2 retcons things a bit.
Still, I'll be waiting on your video! I think it'll put things in better perspective for me. I have no idea who the Lord of the Sun could be in Elden Ring, though. Maybe the bearded man clutching stone tablets, depicted by the Uhl civilization... hmm...
But really, love your work, please keep at it, and thank you for the response, I love discussing Souls!
Instant sub, im so excited for future videos
Hellllll yeah! Thank you so much!!
Fascinating correlations
Thanks! Most of the parallels I find between Fromsoft games I don't consider particularly strong evidence for lore-hunting. But when they put the statue right there in the world. I think then it's fair assume it's a hint from the devs and the correlations are worth factoring into the bigger lore-picture.
@ and you made an excellent video out of it, hope to see more from you in the future you’re killing it
Wow! Subscribed.
i been saying before the dlc came out that before the erdtree was around the lands between had two kingdoms that worshipped the sun and moon
There was most definitely a Sun Realm that's been all but wiped from history in the Lands Between. I been thinking that moon-worship popped up after after the Sun Realm was erased. Because the Full Moon Queen used to be an astrologer who studied the stars. And the moon reflects the sun's light. I think Rennala's Full Moon religion was a work-around to older ways of sun worship that have been forbidden under the Golden Order.
@Elden_dorK the shadow realm was the sun realm. as we know that it used to be smack dab in the lands between before it was banished. The scadutree is the scar left behind by the greattee being cut in half by Marika teleporting EVERYTHING to whats essentially a giant evergaol. But the moon worshippers were what the nox were before they were sent underground. The carians are descendants of the scholars that lived in the mountaintops who studied the constellations and the moon.
Ooooo! I also believe the Carians precede the Nox! Not a popular theory in the circles I hang out in. But I think the Carians are a big deal and predate most if not all the humanoid factions of Elden Ring.
Like, I don't think the Carians were descendants of the Astrologers. I think the Carians were the founders and the rulers of the Astrologers.
Solid video! 🎉
@@erikfrederiksen4863 thank you!! 🤩
Yoooooooo, you are *cooking*! Subbed!
Woot! Thanks!!
I got more in the kitchen!
Bro!!!!! So it’s thought that Radagon represents an emotion just like St. Trina represents Miquella’s love. So what do you think Radagon would represent knowing what you know now?
Also holy crap, these connections you made. Amazing! Love the Radagon theme cover you sang 😂
hahaha thank you so much! I'm glad my sense of humor didn't spoil my credibility!
There's a bunch of mechanics in Elden Ring that could explain "Radagon is Marika". Maybe he's a discarded part of like St. Trina. Maybe he's a mimic tear.. maybe Marika is a mimic tear. Maybe one's a a shadow-bound beast sibling thing. Maybe one was reincarnated by deathbed companions.. Maybe they're twins sharing a single soul like D...
They put in enough crazy explanations to make it really difficult to deduce which one.
But! If Radagon exists by St. Trina mechanics... then the emotions I would assign to him would be based on the emotions reality to Humanity in Dark Souls. Love, envy, want.. and even though it's not an emotion, luck.
I think Radagon loved Rennala and loved his children :) And he wanted to repair the world for the sake of his worldly attachments, those he loves.
But that's just because I think that sounds like a nice story. I don't have any concrete evidence for Radagon's motivations.
oooh my goooood! When the video hits 9:20 I realized the connection, the celestial dew has the same power as Velka's statue to stop aggression, of cleasing. But that is all, I guess it stops at just being a reference or a similar concept, they do not have direct relation. I think you went too far in the implication section, like Dusk being Velka's daughter, Velka flooding New Londo, Velka preserving the age of fire (when it is implied she does the contrary) and Radagon being responsable by the night of the black knives. Also, the DLC already shows us that in fact Radagon was once separeted from Marika. They were once the same person, but by the time he becames the second Elden Lord, Marika cast him away like Miquella did with St. Trina. So they both have different motivations, the implications you mentions mixed up their both intentions.
Despite of that, this was a very cool video. I did not see this anywhere else
Those are all fine interpretations, but based in just as much speculation as my claims.
There is significant evidence that Velka was involved in the flooding of New Londo in Dark Souls, but the only explicitly involved parties were the three sealers.
I'm aware it's a popular idea that Velka opposed the Age of Fire but there is significant evidence that she didn't including that she's involved with sealing away and burying most of the things that imply she opposed the Age of Fire.
I did not claim that Radagon is responsible for the Night of the Black Knives. I claimed that his followers are. The point I intended to make was that Ranni was aligned with Radagon, not that Radagon necessarily orchestrated the whole thing. And to draw the parallel to Dark Souls, that the followers of Velka committed the ill-fated plot but that does not necessarily mean Velka orchestrated it. But, I can see how the way I worded it could be interpreted the way you did.
You propose reasonable interpretation between the mechanics and timeline of Radagon and Marika. But it's not the only plausible one. Perhaps Radagon is a discarded part of Marika like St. Trina and Miquella. Or perhaps one of them is a silver tear clone of the other created by the Eternal Cities. Or perhaps they are twins who share a single soul like the brothers D. Or perhaps Radagon is just Marika in disguise using her Mimic's Veil aka "Marika's Mischief". Or perhaps one stored their soul within glinstone and was transferred to the other's body like Sellen. Or perhaps one is a reincarnation of the other via Deathbed Companions' reincarnation powers.
There are many plausible explanations all with several plausible timelines. Your favorite explanation doesn't necessarily make my favorite explanation incorrect.
Glad you enjoyed!
The Academy seal is not the moon at its top. It is a rift / microcosm.
(Eternal Darkness) is a hint that a great calamity occured in the past. And the origins of the Academy are from its survivors. The astrologers who imbued their souls with glintstone (becoming immortal) aka. Eternal.
The oldest Conspectus is Karolos; founded by Azur.
The second is Olivinus by Lusat
Lusat is said to hail from Sellia, town of sorcery.
And if you look at the Sellian Seal Breaker, and Sellian (Night sorceries). What looks like the moon in other Glintstone seals becomes those Giants seats in Nokstella and Nokron.
I believe the original people who founded the Academy, were all one single people.
The Numen
Who diverged into a variety of peoples. Including the Nox, Edtree people and Hornsent.
This aligns with the idea of going against the Greater Will. In the spirit or idea that they may have manipulated and made a (mistake).
Regardless, there seems a period before the (procession of stars) as Spirit ashes of: Yosh. Where they coukd predict the future.
And whatever was beheld has caused ALOT of trouble:
The creation of a great tree, The flame, destined death, the procession of stars. Etc...
A seemingly classical example of "fall from heaven". Or destruction of Atlantis or utopia. In self-fulfilled prophecy of somesort.
Very interesting take! There's nothing I'm aware of that definitively states what the moon-or-microcosm is on top of the Academy's sigil. So your take is as good as mine.
But, I still think it's meant to be interpreted as the full moon.
All the depictions of lightless voids are black or empty circles. Eternal Darkness and Metyr's microcosm are black circles. Ymir's high priest hat is a hollow circle that represents a "lightless void". The Maternal Staff and Staff of the Great Beyond both have a black orb.
Rennala's Full Moon icon is a bright circle. The top of the Academy's sigil is the same as the top of the Carian sigil. Rennala is the Fullmoon queen of the Carians.
The circle on top of the Academy sigil is white filled circle.
I think it would be an odd design decision to depict lightless voids consistently as black or empty circles, but for this one on top of the Academy sigil its suddenly white. Meanwhile, the fullmoon is consistently depicted as a white circle or orb.
Also worth noting: there is a black circle on the Academy sigil similar to all the lightless void depictions. At the bottom in the center of the sun.
I'm curious, if you suppose the Nox, Erdtree people, and Hornsent are all descendants of the Numen, do you think there are any groups of typical bipedal humanoids in the Lands Between who existed prior to the Numen then coexisted with them? Or do you suppose the Numen mark the arrival of typical humanoid life in the Lands Between?
Great work, I wanted to say the sun on the preceptors hat looks a bit like its forming a tree and I feel like I see snakes in it, one of the hats has a map of the stars under the brim, and you can actually see space bending around the giant sun/snake/tree, like its the center of gravity. I feel like it has to do with the erdtree having the warmth of the sun and the eclipse. Its also strange but no longer surprising that the sun looks lower then the moon.
I've been playing Code Vein, and the setting sun them is strong, along with the Frenzied flame.
I'd also like to know what you think of the witch of Izalith, if you feel like there is an Elden ring version that is =). again amazing work though seriously, keeping in mind multiple Fromsoft titles can be exhausting
That's a really cool observation! I never thought about the sun on the Mask of Confidence is at the center of the star map on Seluvis' big hat. I think you're right! The preceptor hat is placing the sun at the center of the stars. Thanks for sharing!
great stuff here looking forward to hearing more about this
Thanks! I've got more to share!
Fantastic, impressive, now I'm a fan
Thank you!
Oh yea, thats some good lore right there
GRR Martin himself said in an interview that ER was the sequel to Dark Souls. I, for one, do not think he was saying this due to cluelessness about the DS lore or misunderstanding ER and its place among From's library of games. He was likely told that he was writing lore for a game within a certain legacy of parameters, and they gave him an outline for the mechanics of the game, and he incorporated them based upon the schematic given, and thereby threaded the lore in accordance with Miyazaki's input and what he likely researched into DS lore. I give George credit for taking the concepts and themes and imparting his own ideas into the overall worldbuilding, but I also think he was indeed plotting the Pre-Shattering with a mind toward the DS lore. For one, the Ancient Dragons are not at all what GRRM would design. He is on record despising dragons that have four legs. Ergo, he included the Ancient Dragons only to honor the DS lore thitherto established, which depicts Ancient Dragons with four legs. Had it been a completely original lore then GRRM would not have allowed four-legged dragons.
You know, I've presupposed that Dark Souls and Elden Ring are in separate universes since the beginning. But to be honest.. I've been finding more and more stuff that make me think that ER may be a sequel to Dark Souls like you said.
I was not aware that GRRM said it was a sequel to Dark Souls! That's huge!
My GRRM lore is weak. But I've seen enough from folks like @Jackisamimic to be convinced his impact on the lore and story of ER is huge.
Thanks for sharing!
@Elden_dorK if I am not mistaken, it is in the Stephen Colbert interview that George says it is a sequel to Dark Souls.
Never mind. It was not the Colbert interview, but an interview with a woman.
Instantly subbed
Radagon is said to be related to the giants. Maybe Velka is the formless mother and Radagon was some incarnation. Those same fire monks and their followers are all about sin. Perhaps the star inbetween the sun and the moon on the Carian crest is the bloodstar! It could be that the greater will is the sun which is why Ranni says "here beggineth the chill night" in her ending, essentially saying no more sun, aka greater will. That certainly makes the eclipsed sun iconography more interesting! Anyway we know Marika wanted to unite with the moon so perhaps assimilating Radagon into her shaman body was her way to unite with the blood star (all things can be conjoined). Also the star's position on the carian crest matches radagon, being inbetween sun and moon and the later between sorcery and miracle. Anyway I feel like I could go on an even longer tangent but I wont. I'll just say, that there is a LOT of evidence pointing towards a shared world/universe. Is demon souls great old one like the elden beast? And did its burnt remains powered Gywn and the others? Who really is Formless Oedon? Why all the dang Fog?
Really interesting stuff! Thanks for sharing!
My take (which is just as speculative as anyone else's) is that Miyazaki has been telling roughly the same story and iterating on it with each soulsborne game. So, I don't think think they exist in a shared universe, but I do think they have tons of overlap and we can use each game to fill in holes in the others. But! I could absolutely be wrong. Maybe the do exist in a shared universe.
You know, I hadn't thought of this before reading your comment. But what if the "bloodstar" actually just refers to the sun. What if the sun used to be red in the era when the Fire Giants thrived?
My uh.. more philosophical take on these games (I'm not an expert in philosophy, religion, or mythologies or anything..) is that a black void, aka the abyss, represents the material aspects of reality. As well as the emotional and primal aspects of humanity. Love, hate, envy, want are all related to Humanity in Dark Souls.
The sun represents more spiritual and intellectual qualities. Civilization and enlightenment type stuff.
And life and humanity as we know it emerges when the two merge... from the eclipse.
And I think the full moon and dark moon also represent basically human life. Because the full moon is material, but it reflects the light of the sun.
But, I need to put my brain to polishing all that up for a future video :P
Oh! And I also like comparing the Elden Beast to the Great Old One! Because we learn in Demon's Souls that all souls, not just demon souls come from the Great Old One. And the Elden Beast appears to be the Elden Ring. And the Elden Ring appears to be the source of all runes. And runes appear to essentially be souls. And I really like the idea that Marika is containing and preventing the Elden Beast from gobbling up all of the runes/souls of every living being because runes/souls all came from the Elden Beast.
Extraordinary!!! I’m so fucking glad you agree about Radagon being the gos of the sun!!’ EEEKK!!!!!
The evidence goes even further when you consider that the Nox and the shaman and the giant throne sitters in the eternal cities all have hair like Marika’s, not Radagon’s. Almost like the matriarchal “lord” figure they were trying to create may have been another Marika or Marika herself instead of the inverse which I used to think a couple of years ago!
I’m so thrilled with this video and where I think the next one is going, SCOTT!!!!
Thanks so much K8!! The trouble will be deciding which video to make next. Because I was imagining making several videos that back up the claims I made about Dark Souls and Elden Ring without relying on one informing the other. But maybe I'll figure out how to make a poll or something to see what folks would be more interested to see first. Go straight into the the lord of sunlight, or take some time building the foundation of evidence first.
@ LORD OF SUNLIGHT LETS GOOOOOO
I cant remember if this was mentioned in this video or not, or if youve already talked about this previously, but the codename for misbegotten is "children of radagon" or something like that. Just a cool little detail.
I did not mention that! But I had it in the back of my head. I can't remember where I heard about it.. and I decided I wanted to keep the video's scope to in-game(s) references.
But! I think comparing Radagon to the Mother of the Forlorn gives a good clue as to why they'd name the Misbegotten "child of Radagon" in the game files.
Thanks for pointing it out!
Great video btw. I was surprised to see your channel only has two videos, considering the quality of this one. Cant wait to see more from you, now i gotta subscribe.
@calebherring1313 thanks! hehe I stand on the shoulders of giants. My friends who I linked in the video's description gave me loads of time-saving and trial-and-error avoiding advice. And set a high quality bar for me to aim for.
And I went try-hard mode for a solid 3 and a half months :P
And I work in computer graphics. Video editing is new to me, but I'm fortunate to already have a bunch of relevant skills.
"The miracle rooted in this ground would ONCE AGAIN mend the world" When it mended before?? The statue is a Nox... Maybe that's why the Nox had not been chased underground? A repent of that conflict? (By some theories the First Liurnian War)
When Radagon repaired the Elden Ring :)
@@Elden_dorK 🤔 it seemed to refer to something happened before Radagon's marriage to Rennala tho
WAIT… NANAYA IS BLACK HAIRED, HOODED AS WELL. Maybe marika is nanaya is radagon is velka????
That’s madness!
@happysuds1856 *eyes burst into flames*
I think these theories relating themes and symbols across FromSoft games hold a lot more water than people give them credit.
Miyazaki has said it will take several iterations of his game for us to understand his message. I believe the true answer lies in theories like this.
Agreed! I didn't know Miyazaki had said that! That's rad.
Намёков на то, что Велка это Гвиневер полно и в самих DS.
А эта параллель в Elden Ring, ещё одно дополнительное доказательство. :)
Thank you for this comment! I know what you mean! Like Velka's Rare Ring of Sacrifice being stored in a chest right next to Gwynevere's Divine Blessing in a room in Sen's Fortress. The stuff in DS3 mentioning the queen of Lothric often implies that she was Gwynevere, but Velka frequently fits the mold as well.
My headcannon has been that Gwynevere is a daughter of Velka and Gwyn. But I can totally see a case for Gwynevere being the same person as Velka - or an illusion/persona produced by her.
Very interesting to think about!
@@Elden_dorK Ну они как бы боги. Они могут всё. :)
И начинается всё даже ещё раньше. В DS1 большая чёрная ворона приносит нас к костру, под которым сидит Анастасия. Анастасия немая. Причём по собственной воле. Обет молчания?!
Анастасия - дева Гвиневер. В описании комплекта одежды сказано, что такую одежду носят все девы, независимо от ранга. Даже глава дев?! Но кто их глава?
Кто у нас там сидит под костром? :)
Dude! You're so right! Holy shit!
I never considered that Anastacia had taken a Vow of Silence! And I've overlooked the "regardless of rank" part. And who indeed would be depicted in statue holding a baby in Firelink shrine wearing the robes and hood of the religion that she started!
Thanks so much for sharing!
Great stuff
Thank you!
Celes is the name of the elden beast, that's very clear, to me at least: Celes means stars or heaven, and the beast is literally made of stars
I've read "celes" may mean "celestial" or "heavenly. But it may also mean "hidden". And Manus is Latin for "hand". So, "Manus Celes" may mean something like "heavenly hand", but it also may mean something like "hidden hand". And there is a hand hidden underneath Manus Celes.
I'm happy to lean in whichever direction feels the best fit for my headcannon in the moment on this one. Unless Fromsoft tells us the correct way to interpret or translate those names :)