Learned more in 7 minutes than watching all the other recommendations. Your suggestion to watch if the paper kinks when you push which indicates it's too tight is the simplest idea I've seen. Thanks for your valued time and instruction. Keep up the good work.
@@PVG3DPrints I've watched two videos by you today, and I'm so glad I found them! Bed levelling made more understandable. And yes, it is indeed one of the most frustrating things I've got so far (I also have some underextrusion issues, but first things first, I think).
Stick with it Austin, bed levelling is indeed frustrating when you first start 3D printing. But it does get much easier with time and experience and your patience and determination will be greatly rewarded when you start producing great prints. I'm glad you found my video and hope it was helpful!
I know your pain! ‘“Candy floss” is even worse. Printers tape with a raft can help but when you get good adhesion on glass with no raft the bottom can end up with an almost mirror finish, hang in there.
stop thinking about it that way... it is really not level at all. It is just about height adjustment and parallelism between the print surface and the direction of travel. Once you get past the idea of leveling, you can actually understand what you are trying to do...
Alen I bought one when I bought the machine... never used it. Once you figure out leveling isn't about level at all... you really don't need it unless your bed is warped and you can auto-trammel as you go.
The problem with the paper method, and why I never suggest it, is that it's unwieldy as a tool. It's so flimsy and will constantly crumple while trying to level. Where as a feeler gauge does what it needs to do, every time.
I agree, I had some drag on the paper but not enough. The amount of drag I actually needed seemed like too much but being new to all of this I would have never known better. A feeler gauge is day and night as far as I’m concerned, it either is correct or it’s not. I spent weeks wracking my brain trying to figure why my prints were failing and all it came down to was I wasn’t allowing enough drag on the paper. I could have saved myself a lot of headaches if I had used a feeler gauge.
I just started printing last week and have been at it non-stop. Of all the videos I've seen about the "paper technique", this one is possibly THE BEST! (I wish I had found it sooner) Very informative, especially for new folks who totally unfamiliar with how it should feel. I just got my feeler gauge yesterday and will use both going forward. The more tools, the better! Thank you. PS. Since the manufacturers don't seem to have a video on the matter as thorough and succinct as yours, they should link to this!
Omw... finally a video explaining HOW the paper and feeler guage should feel when it's set correctly! Most videos out there fail to explain this fully or give a demonstration of how to know when the resistance of the paper is good / bad. Thank you so much!
Just wanted to thank you for this video. I was having a devil of a time getting a usable print out of my Wanhao Duplicator i3 mini. I got hold of a feeler gauge and levelled the bed with the 0.08mm gauge and now am having much more success.
Instead of using a scraper to try and remove prints, I just wait until they cool and give them a slight tap on the side and they usually just slide off. Using a feeler gauge is an interesting idea that I never thought of.
I never used to do long enough prints that levelling would have a big effect on the print, but I recently started a long print that I had to bin because of warping. I reprinted it after cleaning with isopropyl and properly levelling the bed and it did not even slightly budge.
The problem I had with using a sticky note to level my print bed is that I wasn’t allowing enough drag and it was resulting in terrible adhesion and lots of failed prints. I always thought I had it set good enough and that there was something wrong with my print bed. Although I finally did get my bed leveled with correct (or good enough) nozzle height with a sticky note I’d rather use a feeler gauge in the future as the sticky note method leaves too much room for error, at least that was my experience as a new comer to 3D printing. It took me about 6 weeks of hit or miss prints to finally get it dialed in to get consistent successful prints. I got it dialed in just yesterday and I’m finishing up my first long print tonight, about 28 hours. Even a week ago I never thought I’d be able to pull off a job that big. This is easily the best how to video using paper and I wish I had seen it 6 weeks ago when I got my printer, but after this I think I’d rather use feeler gauges instead. Thanks for the great video, though!
Great video, I like the idea of the feeler gauge because that's what it's meant for. The one thing I have learned across all my various hobbies is: "use the right tool for the job". No professional engineer or mechanic would use paper as a feeler for any serious work, they would use a feeler gauge. I would love to see a comparison between paper and a 0.09 or 0.1 feeler but I think the difference would be negligible at that point as per your other comments.
@@seventyfive1 yes. I am one for instance. for example. take a lawn mower. the magneto you can get away with just using a business card to set the gap. now I wouldn't use paper for bearings or other critical areas. but there are plenty non critical areas where you could get away with using paper or even an eye to set gap.
Thankyou so much for this compare and contrast along with the superb visuals to illustrate in detail these concepts in lieu of dancing around them like so many others subjectively do. This information is still relevant as the day you made the video!
Simple answer here...find the thickness of the paper as a real dimension (why you used the unit of measure you did is weird) and compare it to the feeler gauge. Find a middle dimension and you have the best of both. I will say this, the feeler gauge method to seems more consistent in the long run.
Every video I have watched on bed leveling glosses over the fact that your z-offset must be set properly first. If it's too high or two low, this process just ensures that it will be equally too high or too low across the bed. If you know that your four corners are all the same distance from the nozzle after following this process, you then adjust your z height at the center of the bed. I only know how Marlin works so I will provide a generic process for any printer that can be sent G-code. Use a feeler gauge and send g-code G1 Z. Does the gauge slide under too easily? Your nozzle is too high. Does it get blocked? Your nozzle is too low. Keep sending G1 commands while adding or subtracting a little from the Z value until the feeler gauge can move under the nozzle with a little drag. The difference between the thickness of your feeler gauge and your final Z value is how much you need to adjust your z-offset. The formula to set your new z-offset would be new Z offset = original Z offset - (feeler gauge thickness - final Z height). Enter M851 Z and then M500 to save it if you can. If you can't, just add it to your print g-code. Do an auto home and then send G1 Z again. Is it the correct height? If not, adjust again. If it's not even close I don't know what to tell you. :-) If it's correct, you still may need to make adjustments for a better first layer. Add to the z-offset to make it closer to the bed and subtract to move it farther away. Any knob adjustments you make only affects the levelness of the bed and does not change your nozzle distance during printing. That's what took me a while to grasp.
This is a great video. Paper seems way too flexible to be repeatable. My printer paper is .004" and so I tried my Dads feeler gauge of the same size and its way way easier to feel a consistent drag every time. Leveling test print looked and felt great now. I've been trying to use my Harbor Freight dial indicator on my Ender 3 Pro with a printed mount. Every single time I tried that the right side was extremely low for whatever reason. This is the way to do it with an actual feeler gauge. Its reliable, repeatable, and consistent. Thanks for sharing.
I never thought to use my feeler gauge set for bed leveling. I upgraded the springs however, and have never needed to re-level the bed. I am considering adding an auto leveling system in the near future, but I think the feeler gauges would give a more repeatable result.
That's where I was going wrong, getting the tension on the paper right, thank you. I use a mirror as a bed which is good for adhesion and once cooled the print comes off with a breeze.
@@PVG3DPrints I say this for noobies like myself. I thought I'd be clever and buy a second-hand mirror from a charity shop and cut it to size. All well and good until I realised that older mirrors are heavier and although no short term damage was done, I thought it best to get an IKEA ("Lots" pack of 4) mirror which is lighter so as to avoid excess strain on the motors.
Retired Assembly machinist: See more example after 8 years in the hobby, I considered feelers once in the 1st year. It's all about choices, personally feelers nope, never ever. Heavy machine industry absolutely required. No shortage of copy paper, no misplacement and not awkward.
out of all the bed leveling vids I have watched. and I have watched plenty. your's is the only one that I've seen that had really explained how it should feel with the paper method. and I never seen a vid using a feeler gauge. I thought og us a feeler gauge too but now that I've seen your vid I think I will try it out. Thank you.
This video ALONE should be the FIRST AND FOREMOST to anyone that has problems with leveling their bed!! I have been "printing" now for a little over 2 months and thought, "What about a feeler gauge instead of paper due to '+/-' tendencies in the manufacturing process". Lord knows I have plenty of gauges so I tried it. . . That was about 3 weeks ago and WOW!! THEN I stumble across YOUR VIDEO and knowing my results, I was curious. WHY oh WHY do they tell you "A4 PAPER" when undoubtedly a feeler gauge IS the BEST!! GREAT VIDEO!!! Now, onto Slicers...... Your thoughts? Currently using Cura 4.4 with below success rates.... Namely, Layer Shifts and Over/Under Extruding. However, these errors occur in approx. same locations regardless of prints or printers (currently have 3). I believe its in the G-Code of the program. Going to try a different Slicer (Repetier) when I do another to see. . . Recommendations??
Easily the best bed levelling video I have seen. Nobody really goes into detail on how the paper drag should be or the feeler gauge drag. My mono price maker select plus comes in on Thursday. And this has really gave me a good perspective on bed levelling
I see, welcome to the world of 3D printing Cody! Levelling the bed, or more importantly setting the correct gap between nozzle and print surface is easily the first thing you want to master. It takes a bit of time and tweaking and I still check my bed level before every print. The first time you level the bed of a new printer you really want to do the process 5 or 6 times before starting your first print. Keep going around each point of the bed until you are getting a consistent gap. Once you've done a few prints, experiment with your gap size to see what works best with your particular printer. Just make sure the nozzle is not touching the print surface. You can set the nozzle so close that it's almost touching the surface. Another good tip is to get down to the bed level and make sure you can see light between the nozzle and print bed. Best of luck with your new printer Cody.
Awesome thank you for the tips I just bought some feeler gauges and I will also dial in the x gantry as well then I will tweak tweak tweak until I get everything 100% level. Should I use isopropyl alcohol with every print?
Seems to me this is a comparison between 2 different nozzle heights. Not sure what 80gms/m is in thickness since that is a measure of weight. I think the real comparison should be between the reliability of paper vs. reliability of feeler gauge. You can use a gauge block of any given size and then compensate for the thickness of the block if you like. Point is, the prints really just had different nozzle heights and perhaps somewhere in between the 2 heights might be optimum. I do appreciate the advice regarding how to use each product though. You explained the procedures thoroughly and made them very easy to understand. Well done.
And folks, that’s why you go with auto bed leveling. It’s pretty easy to set up on any 3d printer that doesn’t come with it stock.. Save yourself some headaches and time.
I use paper because I move the printhead by hand lowered down, and then it is convenient to shield the plate with the paper. It can scratch the surface when u move a printhead that is out of alignment.
there is also worth noting that there is a z axis offset in case you want to get the print to stick better. It's the same, but instead of lifting the bed more, you bring the nozzle down more. Same result. Just in case you don't want to buy a feeler's gauge :D
Don't know if you will see this but in the case that you do, thank you. This has been a greatly informative video and I think I will be getting a feeler gauge. Every other video has shown use of a paper and of a business card but every time it seems to be to high. I will have to give it a whirl when I am back at my workstation.
Great video. Been looking around for an explanation using feeler gauge method. At least now I have some numbers to work with for a person just starting.
Thanks very much Chuah! Just a heads up, for my new printer (Cocoon Create TOUCH i3 style with heated bed) I now set a gap of 0.1mm. But if your 3D printer is similar to the printer shown in this video I'd still recommend a gap of 0.08mm.
On your video when you're moving the paper back and forth for levelling you have one end of the sheet raised. This will affect the resistance a fair bit, the higher you hold one end of the paper the more resistance you will feel as you're essentially pulling upwards on the nozzle.
Hi Craig, no go I'm afraid. I tried going to 0.10 but without a heated bed I found this little printer really needs the first layer squished into the print bed surface for best adhesion. The printer I have now is the Cocoon Create Touch (i3 style), having a heated bed on that printer allows me to print with a gap of 0.10 or even a little more. It's amazing how much difference a heated bed makes.
This review makes it sound like there's only ONE size feeler gauge and then goes on to say why that is better or worse than the paper. Clearly the paper is thicker than the 0.08 mm feeler gauge. So if you use a slightly thicker gauge (which you have a whole stack of in your feeler gauge tool), then you will get the same results as the paper. The REAL difference is in consistency. Paper can vary in thickness over the entire sheet. If you're testing the gap but using a slightly different area of the paper, your results might end up different. Paper will also wear out quicker, as the drag on the nozzle slowly removes material. A feeler gauge, of the correct thickness, will give you much more consistent results from location to location on the bed, and from day to day.
FYI: 80g/m² and .08mm are two totally different kinds of measurements!! 1-GSM (grans oer square meter) is a measurement of "Weight" not thickness. 2-A4 paper thickness can vary (from .05mm -.10mm) depending on quality and type. Since the paper thickness worked better here, He should have measured the paper thickness with calipers. Then used the corresponding size feeler gauge. Example: If the paper "thickness" is .1mm use a .1mm feeler gauge.
I had hell with my new S1 Pro prints sticking. Unless I used a raft it was rare anything stuck, and if they did they'd usually curl, or get kicked off the bed halfway through. At my wits end I was going to 1: Buy a new bed for the new printer (I was really angry with PEI Bed hype), or 2: Calling Creality support. I tried feeler gauges for the bed and Probe calibration and it fixed everything. After checking my A4 printer paper it's 120g 😏
80 gsm isn't a measure of the thickness of a sheet of paper. With a constant of 80 gsm the thickness can vary betweem .08mm and .12mm depending on what the paper is made of and the finish that has been applied. Humidity and heat will changed the thickness as well.
Some people espouse setting the heights with the bed and possibly nozzle at running temperatures. I wonder if this is over the top or not to consider thermal expansion
badly adhered skirt on the paper leveled run tells the story - nozzle too high. You can on-the-fly tweak that. Using paper density to denote thickness can give varying results. Feeler gauge - Use a slightly thicker / thinner feeler to find your adhesion sweet spot. Shim stock is also available.
This is the first video of yours that I've come across. Your filming and narrating style are very informative and professional. You're definitely talented. Keep up the good work. (New subscriber #927)
.08 mm is not the only feeler gauge. I think a feeler gauge is easier to judge and you can get them in standard thickness. Or use the offset to tweak it once you set it with the feeler gauge you like. You could set it with paper and then modify z offset as well. The secret is keeping your setting. I don't think registration is very good on these beds.
Z offset still needs to be set.. so if Elephant foot is present then you need to adjust the offset to compensate. what's important is the consistency of measurements between the feeler and paper.
thanks, just got my printer and was pulling my already short hair. this videos and quick trip to the auto shop for me test printing without scratching the bed! used a 5 thou feeler guage as in a comment here
I might be wrong, but I believe you could remedy the elephants foot on your feeler gauge print by going up a size to maybe ~10mm. Granted, it's been a few years, so you maybe figured it out.
for me the ultimate in bed adhesion has been with a combination of your recomendation plus one thing extra. i lay blue painters tape and realy stick it down by running a scraper over it i then level the bed at .7 or .8 and then finish off with a spray of isopropyl alcohol and a wipe down what this does is knock off any oily residue from the tape (that isn't good for adhesion) and i must say my prints have stuck like champs. perhaps you should do a bed adhesion stress test prints that cover most of the bed prints that have small features on the first layer and 2 shape style prints (i've heard that these can be the hardest to get stuck. if you'd like i can send you a gcode that failed on my printer without the blue tape but passed with it (i also have cocoon create mini so no gcode issues
Hi Kyle. I actually did several prints last week that covered most of the bed plus a heap of others, I think I might cut together a clip to show how well the adhesion's been working. But I think the big key for me is a close gap (0.08mm) and the Isopropyl alcohol combination. A gap of .7 or .8mm is way too big for me. I'll cut that clip together tomorrow ;)
Which size blade of the feeler guage did you use??? You should also be looking at the 'swuish' of one layer only. Your elephant foot may indicate too low of nozzle height, leading to too much squish.
Sorry I thought I'd mentioned that in the video. On the Cocoon Modelmaker my feeler gauge gap was .09mm but on the Cocoon Create Touch I use a 0.1mm feeler gauge.
I have seen several videos on using a feeler gauge vs. paper. None have addressed my concern. Is there a risk of damage to the print nozzle tip trying to jam a metal strip into the gap between the print bed and the nozzle?
Thanks very much Stephen! My day job is hogging my time at the moment but I will get back to making more videos very soon and they will be centred around the i3 Cocoon 3D printer.
how do i minimize elephant foot? I absolutely hate the paper method its so inconsistent and everyone says something different. Im getting a feeler guage tomorrow. Parts Im printing need to fit together and with the elephant foot Im going to have alot of cleaning to do
Bed leveling/z-gap setting is easy: Follow user manuals, 99% will be paper or business card stock, Buildtak, and clones often call for cardstock or double thickness of paper, I always cringe at feeler gauges for bed leveling. Heavy industrial machine assembler group leader Mitsubishi/Field service engineer, retired with 31 3D printers. Thanks for your video comparison.
I have a print shop my printers run none stop. Feeler Gauge is a tool paper is not. if the gap is to tight use the next size up let your prints cool don't use a scraper use a small fan to speed up cooling
Indeed you can, and should. In particular, you get the squish by setting first layer extrusion width, and you set a height to permit that to flow using first layer height. What's demonstrated in this video is successful tramming (aligning the XY and bed planes) with various levels; the level should be tuned using a Z offset, which is also found in the slicer but may be better stored in the printer's firmware (e.g. M206).
It’s simple…..the paper method trams the bed too high by the random thickness of the paper. Go to an engineering workshop….do you see any engineers using random pieces of paper as a feeler gauge?
Would you make a bed leveling for deltas ? I can't say I'm good at it yet, but I managed to get a good adhesion, also it took me weeks to master it. Your explanation was clear and on point, I think it would help the community better.
Thanks very much Dennis, your feedback is greatly appreciated! I only have one 3D printer but I would like to try a Delta. If I ever get one I will certainly make a video on levelling a Delta bed.
Good comparison, my wanhao i3 plus recommends .1mm so I guess it might be closer to 80gsm paper, but sometimes I get a lot of adhesion problems so I might try .08. Thanks
I have printed hundreds of calibration squares to get my bed level and still can't print anything directly on the bed without a raft. It's driving me insane. I've printed dozens of things but it has to be on a raft otherwise it fails from being too far away from the bed or too close. It's really killing the enjoyment of owning a printer. The paper method is incredibly inconsistent since I have to level after every print and sometimes after auto-homing.
I have never had a successful print on just the straight bed, I always need to use green painters tape and a glue stick. I have tried all methods including using the feeler gauge and even going so far as to change to a spare print mat (which was a pain in the bum) and nothing seems to work, except the tape and glue method for me.
Hi David! Yeah I'm finding out that what works for one person is not necessarily going to work for another. Too many factors like air temperature, humidity, location, time of year, heated bed, non heated bed... there appears to be no silver bullet. I think if you find a method that works for you then stick with it. ;)
It isn't; it's a 2D density, which is how paper is primarily marketed. However, paper processes often have similar output density, so that's proportional to thickness, and common 80g/m² copy paper tends to be about 0.1mm thick (e.g. Stora Enso Multicopy 80g/m² is specified as 105μm thick).
I'm fairly new at this just got my 3D printer but I always wondered in the manny videos I've watched so far, my first initial thought is why use paper when you can go with a set standard of measurement with feeler gauges and getting more precise reading?
The question now becomes: What distance between bed and nozzle do you now measure with the paper-leveling method? You can use your feeler gauge to measure that, and it would stand to reason that you ought to be able to simply use that new different distance with a feeler gauge. While giving us the printer paper "weight" is somewhat useful, that only *implies* a distance. Depending upon the way the paper is finished, 80gm/m^2 paper can have varying thicknesses. TL;DR: what really matters is the distance. Let's actually measure it. You've got the feeler gauge necessary to do so.
Thanks for commenting R. James Scheffler III. Are you asking me to measure the distance between the nozzle and print bed after the printer has been levelled using paper? If so I'd estimate that gap to be about 0.1mm. Although, as paper has some give, it all depends how much pressure you apply to the paper when levelling, so it's going to be subjective and different people will get differing results.
Yes you've got it on all counts. I'm asking that after the printer has been levelled satisfactorily using paper that you use your feeler gauge to measure the distance between nozzle and bed surface. As you note, because paper has some give, leveling with paper can be quite subjective. But if you were to measure the gap with a feeler gauge, rather than estimating, we'll have a significantly less-subjective figure to use as a reference. This video is fantastic - I don't know that I've adequately expressed how pleased I am to find someone providing this sort of analysis.
Yes - I agree. Was going to comment similarly until I found your comment. My feeling is paper will be much more variable in nature than a feeler guage. You can go through several tests to determine the average paper thickness but your time may be better spent determining with various feeler guage thicknesses the optimal height and use that exclusivley. Paper just happens to be handy - it does not mean it is optimal. I suspect paper will also swell with humidity increases. I guess I did comment anyway. I would also like to comment on when you clean the bed. I suggest cleaning the bed before you set up the bed level/height as the cleaning process could be knocking the level/height out which you just spent time so carefully setting up. ie perform the bed level as your final operation prior to printing.
Just wondering why you'd level the bed _then_ clean it? wouldn't even the slightest disturbance to the surface (and the springs underneath) have the potential to throw off the levelling? shouldn't the process be reversed, clean, then level?
Hi IAmTheOnlyYogo. That's fair question. I do it this way because feeler gauges are best kept oiled and I want to make sure there's no oil residue left on the print bed after levelling. The print bed is held under a fair bit of tension and scrubbing it with a paper towel and isopropyl alcohol won't affect the level.
you do realize that 80gm paper is 0.1mm thick.... so of course if you dont adjust your slicer Z height settings your going to press your test cube into the bed with a feeler gauge Z height of 0.08mm Measure the Z heights on both cubes and see if they are the same!
Yes that's my point Berko. I found that I needed to press the cube into the bed with a non heated bed to get good adhesion. Now that I have a heated bed I can comfortably run my gap at 0.1mm but my adhesion was lousy at that gap on the non heated bed. I was happy to lose a little bit of height for guaranteed adhesion.
The 0.08mm gap I'm referring to is the gap between the nozzle and print bed. I'm Not adjusting the stepper motor settings just the knobs controlling the height of the print bed, which are not limited to digital increments. Adjusting the bed with a gap of 0.08mm puts not pressure on the nozzle or stepper motors as a gap is a gap nothing is touching. Any adjustments here only affect the first layer of the print. I can see how your information may have an affect on an auto bed levelling system but my bed is a manually adjusted bed and the stepper motors have no digital input or feedback as to what the gap is set at.
@@PVG3DPrints : Nema 17 motors step at a 0.04mm increment on the Z axis. you cant adjust this.... if you set your bed level height to a odd number that the NEMA 17 can not do... eg "0.1mm bed height" the motor with either round up or down the height! ALSO..... if you set your bed height to "What ever" height, you also have to adjust it in your chosen slicer! - if you still cant understand what this means.... use a set of digital calipers to measure the height of both your test cubes!
Hi Berko, I appreciate you trying to educate me and your patience but I'm struggling to grasp the significance. I've done many tests experimenting with gaps over the last year and a half. --Cocoon Mini - Non heated bed. Gap 0.08mm - Best adhesion, good first layer. Nozzle not touching bed 20mm cube measures correctly at 20mm on X,Y and Z with Vernier calipers. --Cocoon Touch - Heated Bed Gap 0.08mm - First layer too squished. Gap 0.1mm - Great Adhesion and first layer. Gap 0.12mm - Poor adhesion and first layer. At Gap 0.1mm, 20mm test cube measures correctly at 20mm on X,Y & Z. I just double checked the many test cubes I have already printed. I dug up and re-checked the manual and it even recommends a gap of 0.1mm, which I agree with as that's where I get the best results.
@@PVG3DPrints It does put pressure on the nozzle during the print, as there's no place to fit more material inside a solid layer. That makes physical overextrusion, which can cause not only elephant's foot but extruder slippage and nozzle collisions (similarly, underextrusion will cause gaps, weak adhesion and thin walls). If you raise the first layer extrusion width instead, the slicer will know how much plastic fits, and still produce more adhesion. Then the extra pressure is specific to the first layer while the plastic is flowing, so won't push back nearly as much. So, in summary: 1. Tram your machine (this you've done successfully), aligning the bed with the XY mechanism. 2. Level your machine; this is done with Z offset (e.g. M206), making the print height exactly match the model height. 3. Adjust the first layer flow; higher first layer extrusion width gives better adhesion by squish, higher first layer height gives more room for that squish to flow (0.1mm seems a good first layer height for your printer). First layer pressure is the parameter you've been changing, but you've done it by altering the bed level instead of the first layer height/width proportion, thus altering the entire print height.
Learned more in 7 minutes than watching all the other recommendations. Your suggestion to watch if the paper kinks when you push which indicates it's too tight is the simplest idea I've seen. Thanks for your valued time and instruction. Keep up the good work.
Thanks John, your comment is much appreciated.
@@PVG3DPrints I've watched two videos by you today, and I'm so glad I found them! Bed levelling made more understandable. And yes, it is indeed one of the most frustrating things I've got so far (I also have some underextrusion issues, but first things first, I think).
@Steven Ares
Nope, no one is interested.
What _is_ interesting is that you and Adrien both joined on the 6th of March; what an amazing coincidence. 🤣
That explanation about the “tension “ on the paper made the most sense of anyone I’ve heard
Great! Thanks Rastas.
"Bed leveling is probably the most frusturating part of 3d printing" And that's why I'm here. I hate bed leveling after day 1 of having a printer .
Stick with it Austin, bed levelling is indeed frustrating when you first start 3D printing. But it does get much easier with time and experience and your patience and determination will be greatly rewarded when you start producing great prints. I'm glad you found my video and hope it was helpful!
I know your pain! ‘“Candy floss” is even worse. Printers tape with a raft can help but when you get good adhesion on glass with no raft the bottom can end up with an almost mirror finish, hang in there.
stop thinking about it that way... it is really not level at all. It is just about height adjustment and parallelism between the print surface and the direction of travel. Once you get past the idea of leveling, you can actually understand what you are trying to do...
Alen I bought one when I bought the machine... never used it. Once you figure out leveling isn't about level at all... you really don't need it unless your bed is warped and you can auto-trammel as you go.
@Alen they have 3d printed spacers to help with that
if the feeler gauge is too close, then use the next size feeler gauge up, increase the distance.
The problem with the paper method, and why I never suggest it, is that it's unwieldy as a tool. It's so flimsy and will constantly crumple while trying to level. Where as a feeler gauge does what it needs to do, every time.
I agree, I had some drag on the paper but not enough. The amount of drag I actually needed seemed like too much but being new to all of this I would have never known better. A feeler gauge is day and night as far as I’m concerned, it either is correct or it’s not. I spent weeks wracking my brain trying to figure why my prints were failing and all it came down to was I wasn’t allowing enough drag on the paper. I could have saved myself a lot of headaches if I had used a feeler gauge.
I just started printing last week and have been at it non-stop.
Of all the videos I've seen about the "paper technique", this one is possibly THE BEST!
(I wish I had found it sooner)
Very informative, especially for new folks who totally unfamiliar with how it should feel.
I just got my feeler gauge yesterday and will use both going forward. The more tools, the better!
Thank you.
PS. Since the manufacturers don't seem to have a video on the matter as thorough and succinct as yours, they should link to this!
Omw... finally a video explaining HOW the paper and feeler guage should feel when it's set correctly! Most videos out there fail to explain this fully or give a demonstration of how to know when the resistance of the paper is good / bad. Thank you so much!
Just wanted to thank you for this video. I was having a devil of a time getting a usable print out of my Wanhao Duplicator i3 mini. I got hold of a feeler gauge and levelled the bed with the 0.08mm gauge and now am having much more success.
You're welcome vbu1, I'm glad you found it useful!
The Feeler gauge worked perfect for my Anycubic mega s at 0.08. Thanks for a great video.
Instead of using a scraper to try and remove prints, I just wait until they cool and give them a slight tap on the side and they usually just slide off. Using a feeler gauge is an interesting idea that I never thought of.
Came here to find info on leveling my van bed. Stayed and watched the whole thing anyway.
Lol
I never used to do long enough prints that levelling would have a big effect on the print, but I recently started a long print that I had to bin because of warping. I reprinted it after cleaning with isopropyl and properly levelling the bed and it did not even slightly budge.
Which method did you use?
The problem I had with using a sticky note to level my print bed is that I wasn’t allowing enough drag and it was resulting in terrible adhesion and lots of failed prints. I always thought I had it set good enough and that there was something wrong with my print bed. Although I finally did get my bed leveled with correct (or good enough) nozzle height with a sticky note I’d rather use a feeler gauge in the future as the sticky note method leaves too much room for error, at least that was my experience as a new comer to 3D printing. It took me about 6 weeks of hit or miss prints to finally get it dialed in to get consistent successful prints. I got it dialed in just yesterday and I’m finishing up my first long print tonight, about 28 hours. Even a week ago I never thought I’d be able to pull off a job that big. This is easily the best how to video using paper and I wish I had seen it 6 weeks ago when I got my printer, but after this I think I’d rather use feeler gauges instead. Thanks for the great video, though!
Great video, I like the idea of the feeler gauge because that's what it's meant for. The one thing I have learned across all my various hobbies is: "use the right tool for the job". No professional engineer or mechanic would use paper as a feeler for any serious work, they would use a feeler gauge. I would love to see a comparison between paper and a 0.09 or 0.1 feeler but I think the difference would be negligible at that point as per your other comments.
Thanks seventyfive1!
apparently you don't know to many auto mechanics. Or small engine mechanics.
@@brucehirsch5437 you know mechanics that use paper instead of feeler gauges?
@@seventyfive1 yes. I am one for instance. for example. take a lawn mower. the magneto you can get away with just using a business card to set the gap. now I wouldn't use paper for bearings or other critical areas. but there are plenty non critical areas where you could get away with using paper or even an eye to set gap.
@@brucehirsch5437 in that case, I stand corrected. Although I will point out you said you wouldnt do it in a critical area.
Thankyou so much for this compare and contrast along with the superb visuals to illustrate in detail these concepts in lieu of dancing around them like so many others subjectively do. This information is still relevant as the day you made the video!
This is the best 3D printing advice ever.
Simple answer here...find the thickness of the paper as a real dimension (why you used the unit of measure you did is weird) and compare it to the feeler gauge. Find a middle dimension and you have the best of both. I will say this, the feeler gauge method to seems more consistent in the long run.
Every video I have watched on bed leveling glosses over the fact that your z-offset must be set properly first. If it's too high or two low, this process just ensures that it will be equally too high or too low across the bed. If you know that your four corners are all the same distance from the nozzle after following this process, you then adjust your z height at the center of the bed. I only know how Marlin works so I will provide a generic process for any printer that can be sent G-code.
Use a feeler gauge and send g-code G1 Z. Does the gauge slide under too easily? Your nozzle is too high. Does it get blocked? Your nozzle is too low. Keep sending G1 commands while adding or subtracting a little from the Z value until the feeler gauge can move under the nozzle with a little drag. The difference between the thickness of your feeler gauge and your final Z value is how much you need to adjust your z-offset. The formula to set your new z-offset would be new Z offset = original Z offset - (feeler gauge thickness - final Z height). Enter M851 Z and then M500 to save it if you can. If you can't, just add it to your print g-code. Do an auto home and then send G1 Z again. Is it the correct height? If not, adjust again. If it's not even close I don't know what to tell you. :-) If it's correct, you still may need to make adjustments for a better first layer. Add to the z-offset to make it closer to the bed and subtract to move it farther away.
Any knob adjustments you make only affects the levelness of the bed and does not change your nozzle distance during printing. That's what took me a while to grasp.
Very good video. Fast concise, good camera work. Very professional and best of all sound technical advice.
This is a great video. Paper seems way too flexible to be repeatable. My printer paper is .004" and so I tried my Dads feeler gauge of the same size and its way way easier to feel a consistent drag every time. Leveling test print looked and felt great now. I've been trying to use my Harbor Freight dial indicator on my Ender 3 Pro with a printed mount. Every single time I tried that the right side was extremely low for whatever reason. This is the way to do it with an actual feeler gauge. Its reliable, repeatable, and consistent. Thanks for sharing.
I never thought to use my feeler gauge set for bed leveling. I upgraded the springs however, and have never needed to re-level the bed. I am considering adding an auto leveling system in the near future, but I think the feeler gauges would give a more repeatable result.
That's where I was going wrong, getting the tension on the paper right, thank you. I use a mirror as a bed which is good for adhesion and once cooled the print comes off with a breeze.
Glad you found it useful slicedpage. I've seen great results from mirrors and glass.
@@PVG3DPrints I say this for noobies like myself. I thought I'd be clever and buy a second-hand mirror from a charity shop and cut it to size. All well and good until I realised that older mirrors are heavier and although no short term damage was done, I thought it best to get an IKEA ("Lots" pack of 4) mirror which is lighter so as to avoid excess strain on the motors.
@@slicedpage Thanks for the heads up on the older glass and the IKEA buy!
Retired Assembly machinist: See more example after 8 years in the hobby, I considered feelers once in the 1st year. It's all about choices, personally feelers nope, never ever. Heavy machine industry absolutely required. No shortage of copy paper, no misplacement and not awkward.
out of all the bed leveling vids I have watched. and I have watched plenty. your's is the only one that I've seen that had really explained how it should feel with the paper method. and I never seen a vid using a feeler gauge. I thought og us a feeler gauge too but now that I've seen your vid I think I will try it out. Thank you.
Thanks Bruce!
This video ALONE should be the FIRST AND FOREMOST to anyone that has problems with leveling their bed!! I have been "printing" now for a little over 2 months and thought, "What about a feeler gauge instead of paper due to '+/-' tendencies in the manufacturing process". Lord knows I have plenty of gauges so I tried it. . . That was about 3 weeks ago and WOW!! THEN I stumble across YOUR VIDEO and knowing my results, I was curious. WHY oh WHY do they tell you "A4 PAPER" when undoubtedly a feeler gauge IS the BEST!!
GREAT VIDEO!!! Now, onto Slicers...... Your thoughts? Currently using Cura 4.4 with below success rates.... Namely, Layer Shifts and Over/Under Extruding. However, these errors occur in approx. same locations regardless of prints or printers (currently have 3). I believe its in the G-Code of the program. Going to try a different Slicer (Repetier) when I do another to see. . .
Recommendations??
Easily the best bed levelling video I have seen. Nobody really goes into detail on how the paper drag should be or the feeler gauge drag. My mono price maker select plus comes in on Thursday. And this has really gave me a good perspective on bed levelling
Thanks Cody! I'm glad you found it useful.
Print Very Good
No problem good sir I hope to have an easy time with bed leveling after watching your video. This is my first 3d printer
I see, welcome to the world of 3D printing Cody!
Levelling the bed, or more importantly setting the correct gap between nozzle and print surface is easily the first thing you want to master. It takes a bit of time and tweaking and I still check my bed level before every print. The first time you level the bed of a new printer you really want to do the process 5 or 6 times before starting your first print. Keep going around each point of the bed until you are getting a consistent gap. Once you've done a few prints, experiment with your gap size to see what works best with your particular printer. Just make sure the nozzle is not touching the print surface. You can set the nozzle so close that it's almost touching the surface. Another good tip is to get down to the bed level and make sure you can see light between the nozzle and print bed. Best of luck with your new printer Cody.
Awesome thank you for the tips I just bought some feeler gauges and I will also dial in the x gantry as well then I will tweak tweak tweak until I get everything 100% level. Should I use isopropyl alcohol with every print?
Great! Yes Cody definitely use Isopropyl alcohol before each print and scrub it in to the bed with a paper towel.
Seems to me this is a comparison between 2 different nozzle heights. Not sure what 80gms/m is in thickness since that is a measure of weight. I think the real comparison should be between the reliability of paper vs. reliability of feeler gauge. You can use a gauge block of any given size and then compensate for the thickness of the block if you like. Point is, the prints really just had different nozzle heights and perhaps somewhere in between the 2 heights might be optimum. I do appreciate the advice regarding how to use each product though. You explained the procedures thoroughly and made them very easy to understand. Well done.
That's great to hear Jorge! Whatever works for you.
And folks, that’s why you go with auto bed leveling. It’s pretty easy to set up on any 3d printer that doesn’t come with it stock.. Save yourself some headaches and time.
I use paper because I move the printhead by hand lowered down, and then it is convenient to shield the plate with the paper. It can scratch the surface when u move a printhead that is out of alignment.
there is also worth noting that there is a z axis offset in case you want to get the print to stick better. It's the same, but instead of lifting the bed more, you bring the nozzle down more. Same result. Just in case you don't want to buy a feeler's gauge :D
Don't know if you will see this but in the case that you do, thank you. This has been a greatly informative video and I think I will be getting a feeler gauge.
Every other video has shown use of a paper and of a business card but every time it seems to be to high.
I will have to give it a whirl when I am back at my workstation.
Really great video and explanations. Love the side by side stuff. Thanks!
It's not only your mettord, mate. I use it too. And prefer it from the paper. Thumbs up on the video!
Thanks Paul, A lot of good hints for me in terms of bed leveling :)
Great video. Been looking around for an explanation using feeler gauge method. At least now I have some numbers to work with for a person just starting.
Thanks very much Chuah! Just a heads up, for my new printer (Cocoon Create TOUCH i3 style with heated bed) I now set a gap of 0.1mm. But if your 3D printer is similar to the printer shown in this video I'd still recommend a gap of 0.08mm.
On your video when you're moving the paper back and forth for levelling you have one end of the sheet raised. This will affect the resistance a fair bit, the higher you hold one end of the paper the more resistance you will feel as you're essentially pulling upwards on the nozzle.
what about a feeler gauge of 0.09 or 0.10 for a closer mimic to the paper to try and get a medium level of both?
Hi Craig, no go I'm afraid. I tried going to 0.10 but without a heated bed I found this little printer really needs the first layer squished into the print bed surface for best adhesion. The printer I have now is the Cocoon Create Touch (i3 style), having a heated bed on that printer allows me to print with a gap of 0.10 or even a little more. It's amazing how much difference a heated bed makes.
@@PVG3DPrints But I measured A4 paper and A4 Paper comes up just about 0.11 mm , so this was not a real comparison.
@@davemerkley5205 Exactly my thought. My paper is about 0.1mm thick and this is what I would use as feeler gauge on first attempt.
@@davemerkley5205 You can get different thickness A4 paper that why he told you the thickness at the start.
This review makes it sound like there's only ONE size feeler gauge and then goes on to say why that is better or worse than the paper. Clearly the paper is thicker than the 0.08 mm feeler gauge. So if you use a slightly thicker gauge (which you have a whole stack of in your feeler gauge tool), then you will get the same results as the paper. The REAL difference is in consistency. Paper can vary in thickness over the entire sheet. If you're testing the gap but using a slightly different area of the paper, your results might end up different. Paper will also wear out quicker, as the drag on the nozzle slowly removes material. A feeler gauge, of the correct thickness, will give you much more consistent results from location to location on the bed, and from day to day.
Beautiful job with the shots in this video, very informative!
FYI:
80g/m² and .08mm are two totally different kinds of measurements!!
1-GSM (grans oer square meter) is a measurement of "Weight" not thickness.
2-A4 paper thickness can vary (from .05mm -.10mm) depending on quality and type.
Since the paper thickness worked better here, He should have measured the paper thickness with calipers.
Then used the corresponding size feeler gauge.
Example: If the paper "thickness" is .1mm use a .1mm feeler gauge.
I had hell with my new S1 Pro prints sticking. Unless I used a raft it was rare anything stuck, and if they did they'd usually curl, or get kicked off the bed halfway through. At my wits end I was going to 1: Buy a new bed for the new printer (I was really angry with PEI Bed hype), or 2: Calling Creality support.
I tried feeler gauges for the bed and Probe calibration and it fixed everything. After checking my A4 printer paper it's 120g 😏
Thank you for taking the time give a detailed/informative video.
Thank you! The feeler gage did the job.
80 gsm isn't a measure of the thickness of a sheet of paper.
With a constant of 80 gsm the thickness can vary betweem .08mm and .12mm depending on what the paper is made of and the finish that has been applied.
Humidity and heat will changed the thickness as well.
Absolutely love your approach on these videos. Subscribed!
Some people espouse setting the heights with the bed and possibly nozzle at running temperatures. I wonder if this is over the top or not to consider thermal expansion
Isn't the thickness of the A4 paper about 0.10 mm? Interesting comparison, well done and informative.
badly adhered skirt on the paper leveled run tells the story - nozzle too high. You can on-the-fly tweak that. Using paper density to denote thickness can give varying results. Feeler gauge - Use a slightly thicker / thinner feeler to find your adhesion sweet spot. Shim stock is also available.
This is the first video of yours that I've come across. Your filming and narrating style are very informative and professional. You're definitely talented. Keep up the good work. (New subscriber #927)
Thanks very much Yggdrasil, I really appreciate your comments. Yay German Shepherd! I'm a big German Shepherd fan. And thanks for the sub!
.08 mm is not the only feeler gauge. I think a feeler gauge is easier to judge and you can get them in standard thickness. Or use the offset to tweak it once you set it with the feeler gauge you like. You could set it with paper and then modify z offset as well. The secret is keeping your setting. I don't think registration is very good on these beds.
Z offset still needs to be set.. so if Elephant foot is present then you need to adjust the offset to compensate. what's important is the consistency of measurements between the feeler and paper.
the background music game is on point.
Might it make sense to split the difference and just up the feeler gauge to .09?
That you for the video!
thanks, just got my printer and was pulling my already short hair. this videos and quick trip to the auto shop for me test printing without scratching the bed!
used a 5 thou feeler guage as in a comment here
I have my bed bend. Is a glad, but at the middle is much more pushy to the bottom, and corners are lifted. I notice that after leveling middle site.
I might be wrong, but I believe you could remedy the elephants foot on your feeler gauge print by going up a size to maybe ~10mm. Granted, it's been a few years, so you maybe figured it out.
I have never used any method except glue stick over a glass surface and it has never failed.
I've never used a printer with a glass bed but if I do I'll give your glue stick tip a try.
How to prevent rust for feeler gauge ? When not in use for a long time
Oil them
for me the ultimate in bed adhesion has been with a combination of your recomendation plus one thing extra.
i lay blue painters tape and realy stick it down by running a scraper over it
i then level the bed at .7 or .8
and then finish off with a spray of isopropyl alcohol and a wipe down what this does is knock off any oily residue from the tape (that isn't good for adhesion) and i must say my prints have stuck like champs.
perhaps you should do a bed adhesion stress test
prints that cover most of the bed
prints that have small features on the first layer
and 2 shape style prints (i've heard that these can be the hardest to get stuck.
if you'd like i can send you a gcode that failed on my printer without the blue tape but passed with it (i also have cocoon create mini so no gcode issues
Hi Kyle. I actually did several prints last week that covered most of the bed plus a heap of others, I think I might cut together a clip to show how well the adhesion's been working. But I think the big key for me is a close gap (0.08mm) and the Isopropyl alcohol combination. A gap of .7 or .8mm is way too big for me. I'll cut that clip together tomorrow ;)
I do the same Kyle: and use the blue tape to remove the print instead of the scraper.
Another thing that can help is lock nut bed leveling knobs.
it makes a big difference to the bed remaining level.
Thanks Wol-Gran I'll check that out.
As in bigger diameter wheels allowing more finite control?
No, more so they do not wobble loose while the printer is printing.
and to save time adjusting bed level each print.
Which size blade of the feeler guage did you use??? You should also be looking at the 'swuish' of one layer only. Your elephant foot may indicate too low of nozzle height, leading to too much squish.
Sorry I thought I'd mentioned that in the video. On the Cocoon Modelmaker my feeler gauge gap was .09mm but on the Cocoon Create Touch I use a 0.1mm feeler gauge.
I have seen several videos on using a feeler gauge vs. paper. None have addressed my concern. Is there a risk of damage to the print nozzle tip trying to jam a metal strip into the gap between the print bed and the nozzle?
should you not set the gap when the bed is heated? what thickness are you using with feeler gauges?
2022 Feeler gauge all the way
they make other size feeler gauge -.- you can can get any thickness feeler gauge you want
Really excellent video. I hope you will make more vids soon about your i3 mini experiences. I will pass on your channel link to others.
Thanks very much Stephen! My day job is hogging my time at the moment but I will get back to making more videos very soon and they will be centred around the i3 Cocoon 3D printer.
Great news ... I will check back often. Thanks!
how do i minimize elephant foot? I absolutely hate the paper method its so inconsistent and everyone says something different. Im getting a feeler guage tomorrow. Parts Im printing need to fit together and with the elephant foot Im going to have alot of cleaning to do
You never wipe a bed after leveling. that pressure is more than enough to throw off the leveling work.
Congrats for you video. The best !
Bed leveling/z-gap setting is easy: Follow user manuals, 99% will be paper or business card stock, Buildtak, and clones often call for cardstock or double thickness of paper, I always cringe at feeler gauges for bed leveling. Heavy industrial machine assembler group leader Mitsubishi/Field service engineer, retired with 31 3D printers. Thanks for your video comparison.
5:43 What does the A4 paper show up as in MM when a micrometer is used?
feeler gauge with dial indicator ezpz
I have a print shop my printers run none stop. Feeler Gauge is a tool paper is not. if the gap is to tight use the next size up let your prints cool don't use a scraper use a small fan to speed up cooling
Will the level have to be done all the time after each model. Or after turning on the printer.
Can't you set parameters for the first layer only on your slicer?
Indeed you can, and should. In particular, you get the squish by setting first layer extrusion width, and you set a height to permit that to flow using first layer height. What's demonstrated in this video is successful tramming (aligning the XY and bed planes) with various levels; the level should be tuned using a Z offset, which is also found in the slicer but may be better stored in the printer's firmware (e.g. M206).
It’s simple…..the paper method trams the bed too high by the random thickness of the paper. Go to an engineering workshop….do you see any engineers using random pieces of paper as a feeler gauge?
Thanks for sharing
Would you make a bed leveling for deltas ? I can't say I'm good at it yet, but I managed to get a good adhesion, also it took me weeks to master it. Your explanation was clear and on point, I think it would help the community better.
Thanks very much Dennis, your feedback is greatly appreciated! I only have one 3D printer but I would like to try a Delta. If I ever get one I will certainly make a video on levelling a Delta bed.
I can't remember where I put my feeler guages.
Thanks For the informative Video! Which Feeler Gauge size I should pick to level bed for PETG material and (ABS / PLA) material?
Thanks Paul great vid
Good comparison, my wanhao i3 plus recommends .1mm so I guess it might be closer to 80gsm paper, but sometimes I get a lot of adhesion problems so I might try .08. Thanks
Great video!!
I have printed hundreds of calibration squares to get my bed level and still can't print anything directly on the bed without a raft. It's driving me insane. I've printed dozens of things but it has to be on a raft otherwise it fails from being too far away from the bed or too close. It's really killing the enjoyment of owning a printer. The paper method is incredibly inconsistent since I have to level after every print and sometimes after auto-homing.
I have never had a successful print on just the straight bed, I always need to use green painters tape and a glue stick. I have tried all methods including using the feeler gauge and even going so far as to change to a spare print mat (which was a pain in the bum) and nothing seems to work, except the tape and glue method for me.
Hi David! Yeah I'm finding out that what works for one person is not necessarily going to work for another. Too many factors like air temperature, humidity, location, time of year, heated bed, non heated bed... there appears to be no silver bullet. I think if you find a method that works for you then stick with it. ;)
Looks like you have more than one piece of paper when leveling the bed in the video.
What thickness feeler gauge are you using? I came here to find out what the best size is, and you didn't mention it..
why not just use a 0.1mm feeler gauge?
Question: how is 80 g/m2 a thickness?
It isn't; it's a 2D density, which is how paper is primarily marketed. However, paper processes often have similar output density, so that's proportional to thickness, and common 80g/m² copy paper tends to be about 0.1mm thick (e.g. Stora Enso Multicopy 80g/m² is specified as 105μm thick).
LoneTech, wauw that is a very informative comment, i never knew that
Early on, you forgot to mention feeler gauge thickness...
what is the cube download?
DUDE!!!!! GAUGE THICKNESS PLEASE!!!! You cannot simply ignore that part. People need to know which size You used Sir!
It's on screen at 4:18 th-cam.com/video/9JAlERd41NQ/w-d-xo.html
I'm fairly new at this just got my 3D printer but I always wondered in the manny videos I've watched so far, my first initial thought is why use paper when you can go with a set standard of measurement with feeler gauges and getting more precise reading?
Probably because everyone has paper but not everyone has a feeler gauge I'm going to buy one though because it looks like it's more accurate
Can u tell any other measuring device that can be used in place of feeler gauge to level the bed
The music though
The question now becomes: What distance between bed and nozzle do you now measure with the paper-leveling method?
You can use your feeler gauge to measure that, and it would stand to reason that you ought to be able to simply use that new different distance with a feeler gauge. While giving us the printer paper "weight" is somewhat useful, that only *implies* a distance. Depending upon the way the paper is finished, 80gm/m^2 paper can have varying thicknesses.
TL;DR: what really matters is the distance. Let's actually measure it. You've got the feeler gauge necessary to do so.
Thanks for commenting R. James Scheffler III. Are you asking me to measure the distance between the nozzle and print bed after the printer has been levelled using paper? If so I'd estimate that gap to be about 0.1mm. Although, as paper has some give, it all depends how much pressure you apply to the paper when levelling, so it's going to be subjective and different people will get differing results.
Yes you've got it on all counts.
I'm asking that after the printer has been levelled satisfactorily using paper that you use your feeler gauge to measure the distance between nozzle and bed surface. As you note, because paper has some give, leveling with paper can be quite subjective. But if you were to measure the gap with a feeler gauge, rather than estimating, we'll have a significantly less-subjective figure to use as a reference.
This video is fantastic - I don't know that I've adequately expressed how pleased I am to find someone providing this sort of analysis.
Yes - I agree. Was going to comment similarly until I found your comment. My feeling is paper will be much more variable in nature than a feeler guage. You can go through several tests to determine the average paper thickness but your time may be better spent determining with various feeler guage thicknesses the optimal height and use that exclusivley. Paper just happens to be handy - it does not mean it is optimal. I suspect paper will also swell with humidity increases.
I guess I did comment anyway.
I would also like to comment on when you clean the bed. I suggest cleaning the bed before you set up the bed level/height as the cleaning process could be knocking the level/height out which you just spent time so carefully setting up. ie perform the bed level as your final operation prior to printing.
i use the feller gauge of the same heigth of the first layer so no need in z is nedeed and i get almost perfect first layer, far better than this
How do you print a zero-height first layer then?
Just wondering why you'd level the bed _then_ clean it? wouldn't even the slightest disturbance to the surface (and the springs underneath) have the potential to throw off the levelling? shouldn't the process be reversed, clean, then level?
Hi IAmTheOnlyYogo. That's fair question. I do it this way because feeler gauges are best kept oiled and I want to make sure there's no oil residue left on the print bed after levelling. The print bed is held under a fair bit of tension and scrubbing it with a paper towel and isopropyl alcohol won't affect the level.
you do realize that 80gm paper is 0.1mm thick.... so of course if you dont adjust your slicer Z height settings your going to press your test cube into the bed with a feeler gauge Z height of 0.08mm
Measure the Z heights on both cubes and see if they are the same!
Yes that's my point Berko. I found that I needed to press the cube into the bed with a non heated bed to get good adhesion. Now that I have a heated bed I can comfortably run my gap at 0.1mm but my adhesion was lousy at that gap on the non heated bed. I was happy to lose a little bit of height for guaranteed adhesion.
The 0.08mm gap I'm referring to is the gap between the nozzle and print bed. I'm Not adjusting the stepper motor settings just the knobs controlling the height of the print bed, which are not limited to digital increments. Adjusting the bed with a gap of 0.08mm puts not pressure on the nozzle or stepper motors as a gap is a gap nothing is touching. Any adjustments here only affect the first layer of the print. I can see how your information may have an affect on an auto bed levelling system but my bed is a manually adjusted bed and the stepper motors have no digital input or feedback as to what the gap is set at.
@@PVG3DPrints :
Nema 17 motors step at a 0.04mm increment on the Z axis.
you cant adjust this....
if you set your bed level height to a odd number that the NEMA 17 can not do... eg "0.1mm bed height" the motor with either round up or down the height!
ALSO..... if you set your bed height to "What ever" height, you also have to adjust it in your chosen slicer!
- if you still cant understand what this means.... use a set of digital calipers to measure the height of both your test cubes!
Hi Berko, I appreciate you trying to educate me and your patience but I'm struggling to grasp the significance.
I've done many tests experimenting with gaps over the last year and a half.
--Cocoon Mini - Non heated bed.
Gap 0.08mm - Best adhesion, good first layer. Nozzle not touching bed
20mm cube measures correctly at 20mm on X,Y and Z with Vernier calipers.
--Cocoon Touch - Heated Bed
Gap 0.08mm - First layer too squished.
Gap 0.1mm - Great Adhesion and first layer.
Gap 0.12mm - Poor adhesion and first layer.
At Gap 0.1mm, 20mm test cube measures correctly at 20mm on X,Y & Z. I just double checked the many test cubes I have already printed.
I dug up and re-checked the manual and it even recommends a gap of 0.1mm, which I agree with as that's where I get the best results.
@@PVG3DPrints It does put pressure on the nozzle during the print, as there's no place to fit more material inside a solid layer. That makes physical overextrusion, which can cause not only elephant's foot but extruder slippage and nozzle collisions (similarly, underextrusion will cause gaps, weak adhesion and thin walls). If you raise the first layer extrusion width instead, the slicer will know how much plastic fits, and still produce more adhesion. Then the extra pressure is specific to the first layer while the plastic is flowing, so won't push back nearly as much.
So, in summary:
1. Tram your machine (this you've done successfully), aligning the bed with the XY mechanism.
2. Level your machine; this is done with Z offset (e.g. M206), making the print height exactly match the model height.
3. Adjust the first layer flow; higher first layer extrusion width gives better adhesion by squish, higher first layer height gives more room for that squish to flow (0.1mm seems a good first layer height for your printer).
First layer pressure is the parameter you've been changing, but you've done it by altering the bed level instead of the first layer height/width proportion, thus altering the entire print height.