Gear Cutting Basics and Cutting Pinion Gears on a Horizontal Mill
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2024
- This video starts out with a discussion of what information you need to know before starting to cut gears and some formulas you can use to calculate dimensions you will need. Next, we set up the horizontal mill for gear cutting using a dividing head and then cut some pinion gears. We also discuss some inspection methods such as measuring over pins.
![ว้าว!ลุงบีมแบกทองมารับขวัญหลานกันยกบ้าน [cc] แดนแพทตี้ SS2 | EP.49 |](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Osihq1OAs-4/mqdefault.jpg)
![fellow fellow - PROUD feat. INK WARUNTORN [STRING QUARTET]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BQrVkMPTdHE/mqdefault.jpg)
I recently started a position at a gear manufacturing company as a drafter/designer. I don't have any previous experience working with gears, but after watching your video(s), I believe now that I can move with a taste of experience. Thank you very much for taking the time to teach and demonstrate!! May you be blessed.
Here is the next segment in the gear making video. We mill the teeth in the small pinion gears. Enjoy!
Watched it earlier. So impressed with your skills sir.
Very very good explanation of how it's done. I'd seen gears cut before but now (finally) I have at least a basic understanding of the process.
One little thing that really impressed me - at 41:22 in the video you can see the overrun of the cutter onto the shaft (proper terms??). I was thinking "ut oh" until I looked closely and saw the exact same thing on the original! That was a real "WOW" moment. Excellent.
Another excellent video! Makes me want to get a horizontal mill. Thanks.
Scholar for sure. Everyone goes to school for coding or whatever... This is what makes America. Smarts.
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org I agree with everyone but ... you need to label this as part 3.
Blacksmith Blower Rebuild: Part 3 - Horizontal Milling of Gears
I had to look at the date of the video, and go to the 6months ago section, and found this inbetween part 2 and 4.
Not bad right now, but in X number of years, it will get worse.
Nice video. I was taking Autocad and mechanical engineering at A.B.Tech. In one of my classes I designed a clock. To make it easier to do all the gear calculations, I entered all of the calculations into Excel. I had a box of cells where I would enter all of the known values, and they would be automatically entered into the formula's. Then it would do all of the calculations for you. It really made it easy. I can send a copy if you want, and you can post it for anyone to download. Take care.
Hello Keith, Love your videos. Many years ago (over 50) I was learning to run a K&T horizontal much like the your using. Ours had rear controls. Anyways My dad expressed to me that I was never to final tighten the arbor nut without the over arm support on. Old-timers said that you can actually bend your arbor, and I'm sure that's true. The language was very colorful so I've never forgotten. I cut thousands of inches of slots building an early quick change lathe tool holder. We got our patent in 1963. Nix Quick Change Tool. Similar to the KDK except an entirely different lockup. Jack Kuhns of KDK was a friend of my father, my dad bet another toolmaker that he could build a better lock than KDK's. The KDK would loosen up under a vigorous interrupted cut.
Jack built a quality product and used the right equipment and processes to do it. Our operation was somewhat lacking in resources and marketing. Alter I returned to the business from my tour in the Army and a trip to Vietnam dad sold the patent and inventory to JFK co. whose was an early innovator in soft collets and collet closers. My brother and myself have regretted dads decision to this day. We had plans to modernize, market and expand our product line. I was saddened to read that KDK finally shut down their plant due to business conditions. They had a great product. I'm sure Jack Kuhns has long passed and probably his sons or grandsons ran the co.
By reading and understanding Machinery’s Handbook you should know just about everything you need to know. It is a wealth of information. I have been reading the 17th edition for 54 years and I still need to learn more.
Keith, this is without a doubt the clearest explanation of cutting gears I've ever seen. Great video! Really looking forward to the next one. Thanks!
***** Thank you Dale - that means a lot to hear!
I've watched a couple of videos where you made gears. The process always amazes me! I really appreciate how you tell us exactly what you do, where, when why, & how. I'm not a machinist, & most likely never will be, but the videos are very interesting to watch.
Bravo Keith!!! EXCELLENT!! One of the best hobbing videos I have ever seen and you made a complicated subject easy to digest. Great work!
Brian Streufert Thank you Brian - I am so glad that people are enjoying this video!
Very good Kieth.. This is where machine work transitions into something REALLY COOL....Dave
David Richards Glad that you enjoyed. This has been a fun project!
I’ve been threatening to make a new bendix gear for my 74 year old tractors 42. Year old 6 volt electric starter conversion. This video gives me some extra confidence. Thanks.
Hello Keith,
Great video and now I understand how the dividing head works because of your very good explanation. Sometimes I didn't realize how much there is behind the making of a gear.
Many thanks for the great video and greetings from Roel !
RoelTyros Thanks for the note and so glad that you enjoyed the video and got something out of it. This was a fun project. It took a lot more prep work than I was expecting, but that was mainly because I had not cut gears in so long and I had to do a lot of homework and get my machines and dividing head ready for the job!
Fantastic. I have always wanted to witness and gain a simple understanding. Now to graduate to actually calculating and doing the work. Much less mystery, thanks your a good calm teacher.
+Scott Christensen Thank you Scott - it is as always, my pleasure!
You have a good knack for explaining things thoroughly without having an overly drawn out video.
tzkelley Thanks for that great feedback - always nice to hear that people are happy with what I am doing!
Hi Keith,
Maybe I am wrong but I think something like this gear cut, there is soo many different indices, it really does take a true engineer to get things right and think about the million and one possible problems which might be happening to the machined part which means it may not fit correctly, not least the lash-back, and that in addition to sorting out the way it fits onto your cutting arrangement.
I am but a wannabe engineer and with my living arrangement I have no way to make room for even the smallest of machine-shops, so watching you and the ‘other’ Keith, that is Keith Fenner, and I am not at all sure I have spelled his name correct, so please forgive me, but I love watching you both and listening and through your descriptions follow what you are aiming at enough to hopefully recall what ‘I have learned’ and it makes me feel great when I anticipate something, ’the next step.’
So thank you so much for the uploads, they are extremely welcome by me for one!
Take care
mrbluenun
The gears you cut should last for a long time to come, Very fine work Keith, I,am glade you pointed out on back lash without the proper amount good by gears. Thanks for taking your time to show the way to do what you have learned. To me that's a gift that keeps on giving.
Randall Moore Thanks you Randall, it has been my pleasure. I had to do a lot of refreshing in preparation for this video as it has been a long time since I have cut gears. This was a fun job for me as well!
Keith, great video as usual. On the initial topic of the space between the bearing support and the milling machine itself, the deflection can be calculated using a formula that basically says for a given load (same) and differing lengths of the shaft, the third power of the length is the determining factor (structural equation for deflections). To simplify it, the deflection on a shaft is increases by the third power of the length assuming all else is the same. Therefore if you have vibration of the cutter, shortening the effective length of the cutter shaft between the bearing support and the mill proper will dramatically stiffen the shaft and reduce deflection.,
*It is so nice to listen to someone who knows their craft.*
GREAT JOB KEITH. LUCKY FOR ME I CAN REPLAY THE VIDEO AND LEARN A LITTLE MORE EACH TIME. IT'S ALWAYS NICE TO LEAVE A VIDEO A LITTLE SMARTER THAN WHEN YOU TURNED IT ON. THANKS KEITH
ROBERT HORNER Thank you!
Thank you for this subject and series. You have given me hope of being able to get the large gear wheel in old craftsman hand crack grinding wheel, that screw clamps on to a bench fixed. Not having a section that needs speed to skip over the few missing teeth to keep using and display.
So happy to find this next installment in my subscriptions - Thank you. Coincidentally, i just picked up a copy of Machinery's Handbook for a quarter at a book sale. I was amused to find a previous owner had written his age in the book as 16 and 7/8ths years old. lol
John Strange It is funny what people write in these old books. I have another machinist handbook where the owner wrote down his per hour wage and the date of every raise he ever received over his career working in the machine shop. He started right after WWII and worked up through the early 1980's It was like reading his personal history!
As a machinist, I knew about gear cutting in factories, but I was real interested in how it's done in a small machine shop
I've been waiting for this video ever since you mentioned the dividing head during the Victor safe video series. This is so cool for me to watch as I have no machining experience, but have always have been fascinated by machinery. I have an uncle that is a retired "gear cutter" at the Falk corp. in Milwaukee, and always said Milwaukee based Kearney & Tecker machines were the best in the world. Thanks a bunch for your video's.
Cynic Believer There were lots of good makers of mills out there, but K&T was at or near the top of the list in my opinion. I sure would have loved to have seen your uncle at work - if they were making gears in a production setting, they were likely using a hobbing machine - a different process than what I used as it is a lot quicker and more efficient for production work but usually not worth setting up for just one or a couple of custom gears. Gear Hobbers are really cool machines!
Excellent video Kieth! I always wondered how one would indicate in on a horizontal mill. Thanks for sharing.
Herb Blair Well, there you go! Indicating on the horizontal mill is not as easy as on a vertical mill or where you can use an edge finder. But, it can be done!
absolutely great video. A great job at demonstrating a complex procedure. I really enjoy and learn a lot from your videos. your a great instructor.. thanks
Hi Keith. Very interesting process. I find it amazing that there actually is a craft where my obsession with numbers and precission would come in handy ;-) I'll never become a machinist but I sure can appreciate the maths, the precission and the attention to detail needed. Looking forward to more gear cutting. Regards, Michael
Gentlebear Being able to do some more advanced math is critical to being a good machinist. Without at least a basic understanding of geometry and trigonometry, it would be hard to get a lot of the jobs done in the machine shop.
Love watching you run these machines. Your new shop is exactly what I would love to have one day☺ one bit of advice, if you install the overarm support before tightening the arbour you will torque the cat50 taper less🙂
Great video and explanations of gear cutting. Cracks me up that the two knuckleheads always beat me viewing your videos.They don't miss an episode do they? Maybe they're just jealous of your awesomeness! Thanks again!
Jon Hare I don't even want to know what their problem is. Some people just need to concentrate on being happy....
Thank you and may The Good Lord keep on bless you for you are one of the best teachers I have watched on TH-cam.
Keith,
Thanks for the interesting video. I've seen gears cut before on a vertical mill. If memory serves, I saw the other Keith (Fenner) cut gears on his K & T. Even so, it was informative to get your take on the process. I find I learn more by watching how several guys do something and then I can develop my own scheme. Thanks again!
Have a good one!
Dave
Swarf Rat I have seen gears cut with a vertical cut as well, but I have never been a fan of that method as the outboard support on the horizontal mill takes so much of the deflection out of the arbor you get a much smoother cut. At the end of the day, it is just a matter of preference though.
Very cool video, so cool I'm watching it again a year and a half later. Thanks for sharing.
I went and did a toolmaker education and it was the best 31 weeks of my life, my mentor were 63 and worked with metal all his life.. cnc can suck it =P
My first experience with gear tooth cutting involved hacksaw blades, 2 new files and a reference profile stamped into cardboard from a good area of the gear that was being repaired. And a huge amount of patience, which doesn't run in abundant quantities in a teenager. It was a very valuable lesson in what could be accomplished even if you had only hand tools to do the work, but not one I'd care to draw on these days ... I like this method a lot better!
diggerop LOL - I was talking to our blacksmith at the museum the other day and he told me about a blacksmith that he worked under years ago. That guy had a blacksmith's post vise that had a worn out Acme thread that tightened up the vise. Over the course of a summer, each morning and each afternoon, and whenever he had a little bit of down time, he carefully filed out a new Acme thread. When he was done, it worked perfectly! I told our blacksmith if he ever needed an Acme thread, let me know, I could make him on on the lathe in a tiny fraction of the time compared to filing!
That certainly sounds like old OLD school! I found an old article that describes a process that would be in between that and using a screw cutting lathe. I'll try to find the link and get it to you if you'd like.
One of the best videos I have ever seen on TH-cam... thank you very much, your work is excellent!
Thanks for watching - I am happy that you found it interesting!
Thanks Keith,
Very well presented. I learned a bunch about how this is done.
Ed Texley Thanks Ed!
Thanks, Keith!!!
This is something everybody should see.
Your friend,
Cliff
Clifford Fender Thank you Cliff!
A very well-done video. I was fascinated. What fascinated me was that you were able to talk on camera and cut teeth at the same time. I most certainly cannot, and I write down a list of the steps I have to do to cut a tooth. And then I tune out the world and concentrate.
A quibble on terminology. When two gears mesh, the point at which they meet defines a circle. Ideal gears, of course. The circle has a diameter, called the _pitch diameter _. The number is theoretical, I know no way to measure it. The diametral pitch (DP) is the number of teeth per inch of the pitch diameter, a lot like the screw pitch is the number of turns needed to advance the screw 1". If two gears are to mesh, they must have exactly the same DP. So once you have DP and number of teeth, you resort to the formulas. These will give you the two things you need: the OD (outside diameter) and DOC (depth of cut). Now you can set up the dividing head and cut gears. There is always the annoying factor of pi -- but the formulas have allowed for that.
For the rest of the world, which is metric: we use Module instead of DP. Module is simply the inverse of DP, so 1/DP. Since you are now in metric, actually Metric module = 25.4/DP. So for 12 DP this is about Module 2.1 mm/tooth. Being an aspiring clockmaker, this is huge to me. I do not cut involute gears, I cut cycloidal gears, and a Module 1.0 is one big clock. Module actually simplifies the formulas. I often do them with a slide rule, which shows you how old I am.
Juan Rivero Thanks - I have never done any gear cutting in metric so I have not studied any thing about the "Module" method. There is a lot of math with gear cutting but with something like an Excel spreadsheet, it is greatly simplified.
Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org Absolutely. I forgot to thank you for that tip, I wrote a program to do it but but it was, if not a waste of time, a lot of work. Tomorrow I go put the whole thing into Libre Office!
very good gear cutting demo thanks keith
larry sperling Thanks!
As an engineering student its great to see how the machinists actually fabricate the different components
Soxco Congrats on being an engineering student. My advise to you would be to learn as much about how the things you design are being made - it will make you a much better engineer than your peers who mostly have no idea.....
This is an awesome video. Thanks for taking the time and effort to film this.
22:30 - 22:37, I had to stop the video to ask this. If you think you need or just want a shorter arbor, then with the skills I've witness you demonstrate, you can make your own. Will it be a lot of work, I don't know... I've never machined ANYTHING.. but I will follow along and watch the video when YOU decide to make a shorter one. Can't wait!
Could I make one? I am quite sure. But for the price of buying a used one in good shape, it just does not make sense to do so. I would probably have more in the materials than what I can buy one for. Not even counting the time.....
yep, were not in that post scarcity economy yet.
Wow, fascinating to watch. I love the precision. But I wouldn't have a clue where to even begin. And no swearing at all, very impressive! lol. Thanks for this.
I don't know how relevant this is now seeing as this video is over a year old but a trick I learned for measuring over wires/pins is you can either use some elastic bands over both ends or a dab of grease in the groove to help keep the pins in place while you mic them.
Keith, excellent video and very informative on the gear cutting.
Wayne K Woods Thanks!
Dividing heads and gear cutting is so much fun! I always take a sharpie and color my dividing head holes though just in case so I don't bump something or miss count.
bcbloc02 I have used that trick before myself. On these gears, I could pretty much tell which pin it needed to drop into from practicing a few times so I did not do it.
Nice demo Keith, I'll have my students watch this. When I ran Horizontals, I loved it.
Our school doesn't have any horizontals anymore. Such a shame. Keep up the good videos.. Machinery Handbook you can't beat it. I require my students buy one and refer to it when needed. Thanks Keith.
Ronnie Underhill So, where do you teach at? Just curious. Thanks!
Best example of gear cutting I've seen on YT !!!
TheAlbundy3333 Thank you - I am so happy that you guys like what you are seeing on the channel!
Really interesting. Showcase of a machinist's skills, and of the KT mill. Thank you.
Lee Humes Thanks Lee - it was fun to brush up on my gear cutting skills. It has been a LONG time since I have cut any gears......
Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org Don't we all have to re-learn every time, since we don't cut them every day... ? ;-)
I love the way you explain everything and that shows your passion for the work you are doing... best videos ever...keep doing it
Great work Keith. Excellent video. Thank you for sharing
Thank you, for another informative video. It's really nice to see such quality work being done.
The Texas Gun Guy Thanks!
Hi Keith,i really enjoy your videos...........you do a very nice job of communicating your message...again thank you for sharing all of your information with all of us.........ps, I watch them all thanks again....
Excellent tutorial. Looking forward to the next section.
I can watch this for days... Thx!
bro, this channel is like honey for the perfectionists soul.
+steven clark Thanks!
Excellent video Keith I really enjoyed it, thanks a lot.
great camera work, and your explanations as you go along are great! Enjoyed the show.
Rick L Thank you Rick!
BOOM! Right on the money!!!! .875! You see the tenths hatch mark line up also! Nice!
Your a smart guy Mr Rucker this was very informative thanks for sharing.
wade hicks Thank you sir for the feedback! As always, it is my pleasure. This was a fun project and a good refresher course for me as it has been a long time since I have cut gears!
takes me back to my apprenticeship in a tool room...love it!
What an amazing machine that is, and you sir are one skilled worker! I came over from Tally Ho, I'm wood guy but I find this very interesting. Greetings from Scotland.
love your videos and thanks for doing these on gear cutting .
shars tool sells a mic stand for 14.95 so you dont hurt your vise
Jerry Schram Yeah, I have a mic stand on the list of things to be on the lookout for now. So often, I don't know what I need until I need it!
I'm enjoying this series well done and thanks
Eric Corse Thanks Eric!
Thanks for all the videos you make Keith!
Excellent video Keith thanks for sharing.
Mark Russell Thank you Mark!
Like Shane I watched this for the first time here in 2022 (ThanksGiving weekend. even back seven years quality video hope that Shane is working into his job and thanks for your video and the full explanation of measuring and cutting pinion gears
hey Keith, watching you put the micrometer in the vice just gave me a funky idea: put a rubber band on the work before putting it on the dividing head. that way you can hold your pins with it for measuring without having to remove the work from the machine... you would have both hands free to use the micrometer without having to hold the pins
HolzMichel Great idea. Several others have suggested something similar.
Excellent video, always wondered how they do this.
Another outstanding video! Thanks Keith.
ShadeTree Machinist Glad that you enjoyed! Thanks for watching!
Great video,really enjoyed that..I have some experience in cutting MC901 nylon gears with involute cutters on the mill but after watching that I feel the need to get out to the workshop and cut some steel.
Damo Floyd Nothing like cutting steel for sure! In the next video we will be cutting the larger gears out of cast iron and Delrin.
Great video Keith, thanks for sharing
TIM WILSON Thank you for taking your busy time to watch Tim!
Nice work, a pleasure to watch.
mikefromwa Thanks!
Super awesome. Been patiently waiting to see how those teeth would be cut and it was worth the wait. Thanks for the in depth explain on how to pick the right cutter, etc.. Even though I'll probably never have a chance to use this info it still fascinates me none the less.
Plain 'Ol Beekeeping in Plano, TX Thanks - this has been a fun little project and a good refresher course for me as it has been a really long time since I have done any gear work!
Great job on gears, you are a great teacher.
+Joe Tiller Thanks Joe! And thanks for the goodies you sent along!
Thank you... your videos give me inspiration to learn
Muchas gracias por compartir tu conocimiento, this is gonna be my favorite TH-cam channel
WOW WOW many thanks,,,great video,,,great explanation,,,,,ive always wanted to know how gears were calculated and made,,,,checking and rechecking to insure quality!! My hatis off to you!!
Love this on DVD. Not always need a computer to watch these videos.
Hi Kieth
Enjoyed the video, I thought I might mention something I have read about the horizontal mill. The book I was reading suggested that it was best to wait until you have the arbor support installed before you tighten the arbor nut to help prevent the chance of bending the arbor.
John
like going back to school, nicely done
pyrexian26 Thanks - it was like going back to school for me as well as I had to refresh myself up on this topic as it has been a long time since I have cut gears!
amazing machining keith really enjoyed watching this
Andy Coakes Thanks Andy!
Hi Keith, this is an excellent tutorial about cutting gear from start to finish.... ;-)
Pierre
pierre beaudry Thanks Pierre!
Great Instruction. Very Informative
Thank you!
Excellent work Keith, i enjoyed it very much, greetings from the Netherlands!
Theo Dekkers Thanks for stopping by!
Great educational gear cutting video Keith. You need to machine up some Ali or copper jaws for your vice, I nearly fell off my chair when you clamped the Starrett in the jaws, however lightly. I like the idea of using the horizontal mill for gear cutting as you get a better view of whats going on. regards from the UK
Gary C I have a mic stand on my list of things to be on the lookout for......
Nice video.
I use an elastic band to hold the pins firmly in place to make it easier to measure.
Cheers,
Dave
Dave Prototype That would be a help for sure!
Very interesting, in the metric world you don't use teeth per length but you have the module which is basically a parameter everything scales with. For example, the tooth height is two times the module. Best thing is, if you know the module, you don't have to count the teeth. Just measure the outer diameter, divide by the module and subtract two. If you have for example a gear with 48 teeth and with module 5mm it should have an outer diameter of 250mm. If you don't know the module, you could count the teeth, measure the outer diameter and then you'd get it if you calculate it backwards. The counterside is that the pitch is some odd number, because you calculate it with module*pi, but you only really need that for racks.
Thank you , I very much look forward to your videos, they have helped me.
Jonny Vance I am so happy that you are enjoying them and getting things out of the videos!
As usual a very informative video, Keith. Aside from the subject at hand.I recalled that the sand used in casting jewelry to a high degree of reproduction was Delft . This is s wee bit more expensive than what you have been using . But the results are very nice. I had a nice video on it from Rio Grande, unfortunately its long gone or I would send it to you. It is something to check out. Good luck keep upmthe good work.
Al
Alphonsus Padavano Thanks - I will look that stuff up.
muito bom Keith,vc para mim é sem duvida o melhor por este trabalho sempre perfeito co muito amor em que faz obrigado .
keith great video. beautiful job i enjoy your videos very much.
ziggyr1 Thank you!
Keith,You make me feel like I have to go find me a horizontal mill now!!! DAMN-IT.....Excellent video, couple things I still don't understand regarding choosing the right cutter based on how many teeth are to be cut. I'll ask when I see you at the Summer Bash!!Razor!
+Razor Works Looking forward to seeing you at the bash!
Nice job Keith!
djhoosier Thank you!
awesome video man. i could work with you all day long
Extremely informative, well presented video. Thanks a heap :)
+Ralf Boyke Thanks!
you sir are a Master and a pleasure to watch. thanks for your time and great work. Sub!
I would wait until the overarm support is on before tightening the nut, because you can see the arbor bending without support- over time it can put a permanent bend in the arbor- also, I find it's easier to touch off and just watch the progress of the cut if you blue the gear blank. I once had to cut a pinion on a long shaft, and found that the length was causing the blank to deflect downward under the cutter pressure. So I made a little tool I called a "bottom rest", which was a brass bushing bored to the diameter of the gear blank, then cut in half so it would support the blank from below.
Excellent video. Thanks!
+William Lee Thanks William!
Great video Keith, thanks for the lesson!
Thanks for watching!
Very Very professional job
great work... thank for your time.