Good format. I enjoyed it. Don't change it. Add more history on the connectors and protocols. Nerds love that. Because then we all feel like, yeah I knew that and go running for the old Soundblasters.
I like it. The amount of information in this video about connecting gear together in a commercial setting is valuable and worth the time. I think this style of video is great when the topic requires it.
7 years ago I was looking for a way to get my latency down while playing Piano with a midi controller and a Scarlett 2i2. I stumbled on your video going over your upgrade to RME's RayDAT and convinced myself that an HDSPe AIO would fix my problem. Well... it did, but I had no idea what I was getting myself into 😂 Fast forward to today I'm running an HDSPe MADI FX, a RayDat, and a UFX+ across 3 different PCs with a ADI-648, ADI-192 DD, and a small Dante network in-between. I lucked out finding a majority of this stuff for way below MSRP, sometimes even at quarter of the original price, on the used market. Working with this equipment throughout the years attempting to get it to bend to my will has been extraordinarily interesting. RME's drivers and TotalMix seemingly just breaks audio production standards I accepted as inherently true. The ability to remotely access TotalMix in its entirety with an iPad is a game changer. And my sub-mixing leveled up significantly after looping the 3rd MADI connection on my MADI FX back into itself. Anyways, been watching your videos ever since that initial introduction, fun to see you make the jump to MADI. Also fun to see you adapt that PCI card haha, don't feel too bad, I'm running one of my cards off an M.2 to PCIe adapter 😅 PS my UFX+ has been running over Thunderbolt on 3 different platforms running Windows (X299, TRX40, z690), and it's been as rock solid as PCIe. I tried USB with a few of RMEs interfaces and ran into a ton of issues on my AMD platforms, but no issues with PCIe or Thunderbolt (which is essentially PCIe).
Thank you for such a clear breakdown because Ive been confused about adda converters and maadi and adat etc. thanks so much. Liked commented and subbed
Nah, I think I’ll just put it on the far side of the rack- it’s not actually that loud, just feels like it because everything else I have is super duper quiet. It runs a bit hot so I’ll let it get the airflow 👍
Keep an eye out for the older ferrofish A32 does MADI and ADAT 32 in 32 out, might see some dropping second hand over the next year or two with it being discontinued now.
@@adamsteelproducer I own a A32, use it for hooking up analog gear to Digico mixers through madi, works like a charme. The A32 is discontinued now, instead they are making the A32Pro wich is very pricy not to speak of their Dante version wich is even more. They still make the Pulse 16MX, 16 x 16 analoge over Madi and Adat, wich is more affordable. Really enjoyed the video, Adam.
Hey Adam quick question, if I was to do this similar build with a RayDAT and the RME9652 should they sync their inputs and outputs just like they did in this setup? I’m planning to send all of the I/O from the RayDAT to an x32 (with x-ADAT) and then use the 9652 for other potential ins and outs
Yeah I think it’s the same, you’d have to sync the word clock ports together, or link an ADAT cable from the master to slave to keep them together. And there’s no software patching between the cards in Totalmix, but that would work in the daw
@@adamsteelproducer hmm, so if I connected the word clocks from the 9652 to the x-ADAT’s word clock since those ins and outs would be all plugged in to the RayDAT it should do the trick with the x32 as the master?
I'm just unsure of which way to go in terms of connectivity. It seems like there are way more options for converters and preamps in the ADAT format and they are also much cheaper. However, there's MADI, AES and DANTE to consider which seem much more capable 'pro' formats. I could get a RME digiface and a ferrofish pulse 16 converter and then an ada8200 for preamps (or no ferrofish and 2 or 3 ada8200s or asp800/880). I could get a RME madiface USB (£350 more expensive) and a ferrofish pulse 16MX (£200 more expensive) and I'm not sure about madi preamps. What advantages am I getting here? Then there's things like presonus studiolive III 24R which can act as an audio interface or work in conjunction with an RME digiface AVB. Then there's Midas DN4816-O which gives 16 inputs over ultranet - I'm not sure if this is compatible with RME AES or not. Also Midas DL16 AES50 and again i'm not sure if this works with RME digiface AES or not. What I really want is solid reliability that just works and with low latency. ADAT, MADI, AVB - i'm not sure what is best.
Great video - everything you talked about I learned the hard way. While ADAT is still a good digital format, TOSLINK never was a good decision for a connector format. I think it was a decision long ago to find a decent connection format that don't take much space and is cheap. This aside, the real deal for low latency is to record multiple tracks and use effects on them - without using a separate mixing desk or outboard gear hardware. I used RME HDSP 9652 in pci version over the last 10 years and now have to change to the pci-e version because all new motherboards only got pci-e connectors. So i did a research and found out, that it is possible to use a pci card on a pci-e connector with an adapter. The problem is that normally the pci card will slow your pci bus / system bus down from pci-e standard (4GB/s) to 533 MB/S or slower. So what is your experience?
If you are thinking of cost effective MADI solutions, you might consider an SSL Xlogic MADI SX. This was based off of the Sydec Soundscape series. 24 I/O analog, 24 I/O AES/EBU. They also do the AX version which has 24 I/O of ADAT, but I would think the AES/EBU would be a better fit for some of the higher end hardware (like Eventide, Tc Electronic or Lexicon DSP/Reverbs). Those are a bit younger and can be found for under $1K and can do full 48 channels at 24 bit 44.1/48K but drops down to 24 channel at 96K with a choice of analog or AES/EBU.
Very cool video. Madi or not Madi, that is the question. Or Mady TP ? 96kHz seems good to high frequency (20-25-30 kHz) with soft anti-aliasing filter. And a second reason is 96 will certainly become the "new standard" in music and videos. Sorry for my poor English, thanks from Bretagne, France.
Taking the cards external, wow that took me back to the early 90's & building an ISA card to multiple ribbon cable sockets breakout board so a video production co. could run their graphics cards externally. The switch from AT form factor to ATX meant that full length "pro" ISA cards often fouled the new M.B. or cases. Parts for "mining rigs" back then went down the pit.
I think you are the ONLY person in the whole internet who (I think) has answered the question that has been eating at me: HOW on Earth does one use a PCIe interface? I see them advertised, and I see old and new videos talking about them, but not ONE (except yours) actually explains the process of getting the ANALOG signal into the digital interface. I have an old Firewire interface I've used for years, but now that I've upgraded to Windows 11, there are no drivers for that interface. So I have to buy a new interface (UGH!!). If I can use my existing, old interface and just connect it to my new PC via PCIe interface and TosLink cables, would that work? Even though USB is super fast these days, it still relies on a data transfer protocol that I feel is inferior to Firewire, so I don't even want to consider anything USB. Also, Thunderbolt interfaces are few and they're very expensive.
Great video, question, been always wondering, do you really need so much gear for modern day recording and post production!? For example: If I got all production going on DAW and I just need max 2 ins and outs like for vocals and guitar, would I need all this hustle with PCIe cards and stuff or I just can buy a good decent audio interface with thunderbolt + preamps, compressors and job done, is that's not a more simple version who don't need all those channels?
Really depends what you want to do. Do you just want to record yourself or a friend doing a single thing at once? You don’t need much. Do you need to be ready as a business for whatever comes through the door? In that case you need a lot more.
@@adamsteelproducer well for me it's very simple, so l just need mostly for vocals to record, maybe sometimes could be guitar and l need to hook up preamp, comp maybe something else and l wanna get decent converter, like Prism sound lyra or antelope amari so to get best sound and also to reduce latency near to zero, how would l be able to do with PCIe cards, would that benefit me, also of course mixing and mastering?
Forget high end converters unless your room treatment is truly world class, focus your money and effort there first as a boxy/echoey room will never be fixed in post production
12:08 yea let’s get connected 🤘🏽 19:40… 🤔open face pc dinner? 43:19 oooh yes that big beautiful list of… I can record everything and flex my outboard processing. I really wanna play crazy studio building with you sir. Once I hit the lunar lotto we need to schedule some frakenstudio building time ( I’ll still be a cheap ass after the win, just a better accessorized one) Have a great weekend Sir
And here I was thinking I was the only one who kept an actual ADAT machine or two around these days. 😀 I've been tempted to switch out some of our infrastructure to use some RME cards. But, I suspect the dread of tearing it all apart again and perhaps a bit of laziness has kept it from happening. Interesting video and thanks for showing and discussing some of the not-so-pretty behind the scenes decisions and and choices required when running a commercial record studio. It's a long way from just grabbing some gear and working at home when you start bringing in clients and charging clients to use your space and gear, however they may want or need.
I went down this rabbit hole after a decade of absolutely disappointing laptops and audio interfaces. I can’t believe the difference.I really regret wasting all that money on cheap stuff. The best desktop you can buy and RME is the way to go for home studios.
Did this lecture format work? Would you prefer a more "hype" edit or is this right for the type of content? Let's hear your opinions :)
Long form narrated YT vids are great company for those of us who work alone. It sure beats the radio 😁
Works great man .Really interesting stuff , plus you saved quite a bit of cash by knowing your shit .Awesome.
Good format. I enjoyed it. Don't change it. Add more history on the connectors and protocols. Nerds love that. Because then we all feel like, yeah I knew that and go running for the old Soundblasters.
Haha yes good call! I should do the full dive on some of this stuff
I like it. The amount of information in this video about connecting gear together in a commercial setting is valuable and worth the time. I think this style of video is great when the topic requires it.
"Audio univercity" - 14 minutes explanation +Dante 😊😊
7 years ago I was looking for a way to get my latency down while playing Piano with a midi controller and a Scarlett 2i2. I stumbled on your video going over your upgrade to RME's RayDAT and convinced myself that an HDSPe AIO would fix my problem. Well... it did, but I had no idea what I was getting myself into 😂
Fast forward to today I'm running an HDSPe MADI FX, a RayDat, and a UFX+ across 3 different PCs with a ADI-648, ADI-192 DD, and a small Dante network in-between. I lucked out finding a majority of this stuff for way below MSRP, sometimes even at quarter of the original price, on the used market.
Working with this equipment throughout the years attempting to get it to bend to my will has been extraordinarily interesting. RME's drivers and TotalMix seemingly just breaks audio production standards I accepted as inherently true. The ability to remotely access TotalMix in its entirety with an iPad is a game changer. And my sub-mixing leveled up significantly after looping the 3rd MADI connection on my MADI FX back into itself.
Anyways, been watching your videos ever since that initial introduction, fun to see you make the jump to MADI. Also fun to see you adapt that PCI card haha, don't feel too bad, I'm running one of my cards off an M.2 to PCIe adapter 😅
PS my UFX+ has been running over Thunderbolt on 3 different platforms running Windows (X299, TRX40, z690), and it's been as rock solid as PCIe. I tried USB with a few of RMEs interfaces and ran into a ton of issues on my AMD platforms, but no issues with PCIe or Thunderbolt (which is essentially PCIe).
Thank you for such a clear breakdown because Ive been confused about adda converters and maadi and adat etc. thanks so much. Liked commented and subbed
I was engrossed! Will you need to change to quieter fans on the MADI converter?
Nah, I think I’ll just put it on the far side of the rack- it’s not actually that loud, just feels like it because everything else I have is super duper quiet. It runs a bit hot so I’ll let it get the airflow 👍
Keep an eye out for the older ferrofish A32 does MADI and ADAT 32 in 32 out, might see some dropping second hand over the next year or two with it being discontinued now.
Yeah been looking for anything at all that’s even close, no sign yet but I’ll keep looking!
@@adamsteelproducer I own a A32, use it for hooking up analog gear to Digico mixers through madi, works like a charme. The A32 is discontinued now, instead they are making the A32Pro wich is very pricy not to speak of their Dante version wich is even more. They still make the Pulse 16MX, 16 x 16 analoge over Madi and Adat, wich is more affordable. Really enjoyed the video, Adam.
How many PCI Express slots have you on your motherboard? What motherboard have you in that computer?
Hey Adam quick question, if I was to do this similar build with a RayDAT and the RME9652 should they sync their inputs and outputs just like they did in this setup?
I’m planning to send all of the I/O from the RayDAT to an x32 (with x-ADAT) and then use the 9652 for other potential ins and outs
Yeah I think it’s the same, you’d have to sync the word clock ports together, or link an ADAT cable from the master to slave to keep them together. And there’s no software patching between the cards in Totalmix, but that would work in the daw
@@adamsteelproducer hmm, so if I connected the word clocks from the 9652 to the x-ADAT’s word clock since those ins and outs would be all plugged in to the RayDAT it should do the trick with the x32 as the master?
I'm just unsure of which way to go in terms of connectivity. It seems like there are way more options for converters and preamps in the ADAT format and they are also much cheaper. However, there's MADI, AES and DANTE to consider which seem much more capable 'pro' formats. I could get a RME digiface and a ferrofish pulse 16 converter and then an ada8200 for preamps (or no ferrofish and 2 or 3 ada8200s or asp800/880). I could get a RME madiface USB (£350 more expensive) and a ferrofish pulse 16MX (£200 more expensive) and I'm not sure about madi preamps. What advantages am I getting here? Then there's things like presonus studiolive III 24R which can act as an audio interface or work in conjunction with an RME digiface AVB. Then there's Midas DN4816-O which gives 16 inputs over ultranet - I'm not sure if this is compatible with RME AES or not. Also Midas DL16 AES50 and again i'm not sure if this works with RME digiface AES or not. What I really want is solid reliability that just works and with low latency. ADAT, MADI, AVB - i'm not sure what is best.
That's the info I needed! Great video! Most cpu have only 20 pci lines tho. Other than the video card which takes 16, it leaves 4 for everything else.
Great video - everything you talked about I learned the hard way. While ADAT is still a good digital format, TOSLINK never was a good decision for a connector format. I think it was a decision long ago to find a decent connection format that don't take much space and is cheap.
This aside, the real deal for low latency is to record multiple tracks and use effects on them - without using a separate mixing desk or outboard gear hardware.
I used RME HDSP 9652 in pci version over the last 10 years and now have to change to the pci-e version because all new motherboards only got pci-e connectors. So i did a research and found out, that it is possible to use a pci card on a pci-e connector with an adapter. The problem is that normally the pci card will slow your pci bus / system bus down from pci-e standard (4GB/s) to 533 MB/S or slower. So what is your experience?
If you are thinking of cost effective MADI solutions, you might consider an SSL Xlogic MADI SX. This was based off of the Sydec Soundscape series. 24 I/O analog, 24 I/O AES/EBU. They also do the AX version which has 24 I/O of ADAT, but I would think the AES/EBU would be a better fit for some of the higher end hardware (like Eventide, Tc Electronic or Lexicon DSP/Reverbs). Those are a bit younger and can be found for under $1K and can do full 48 channels at 24 bit 44.1/48K but drops down to 24 channel at 96K with a choice of analog or AES/EBU.
That’s £2500, not exactly in my “cost effective” category! Not seen any of these on eBay recently…
Very cool video. Madi or not Madi, that is the question. Or Mady TP ? 96kHz seems good to high frequency (20-25-30 kHz) with soft anti-aliasing filter. And a second reason is 96 will certainly become the "new standard" in music and videos. Sorry for my poor English, thanks from Bretagne, France.
Thanks for the great video
I would use some loctite for the screws on top. Nice build..
Taking the cards external, wow that took me back to the early 90's & building an ISA card to multiple ribbon cable sockets breakout board so a video production co. could run their graphics cards externally. The switch from AT form factor to ATX meant that full length "pro" ISA cards often fouled the new M.B. or cases. Parts for "mining rigs" back then went down the pit.
Nice! I miss the ISA days sometimes, but then I look at the specs of everything and realize I’m much better where I am!
I think you are the ONLY person in the whole internet who (I think) has answered the question that has been eating at me: HOW on Earth does one use a PCIe interface?
I see them advertised, and I see old and new videos talking about them, but not ONE (except yours) actually explains the process of getting the ANALOG signal into the digital interface.
I have an old Firewire interface I've used for years, but now that I've upgraded to Windows 11, there are no drivers for that interface. So I have to buy a new interface (UGH!!).
If I can use my existing, old interface and just connect it to my new PC via PCIe interface and TosLink cables, would that work?
Even though USB is super fast these days, it still relies on a data transfer protocol that I feel is inferior to Firewire, so I don't even want to consider anything USB.
Also, Thunderbolt interfaces are few and they're very expensive.
Would 96khz just mainly be for film and TV projects?
Great video, question, been always wondering, do you really need so much gear for modern day recording and post production!? For example: If I got all production going on DAW and I just need max 2 ins and outs like for vocals and guitar, would I need all this hustle with PCIe cards and stuff or I just can buy a good decent audio interface with thunderbolt + preamps, compressors and job done, is that's not a more simple version who don't need all those channels?
Really depends what you want to do. Do you just want to record yourself or a friend doing a single thing at once? You don’t need much.
Do you need to be ready as a business for whatever comes through the door? In that case you need a lot more.
@@adamsteelproducer well for me it's very simple, so l just need mostly for vocals to record, maybe sometimes could be guitar and l need to hook up preamp, comp maybe something else and l wanna get decent converter, like Prism sound lyra or antelope amari so to get best sound and also to reduce latency near to zero, how would l be able to do with PCIe cards, would that benefit me, also of course mixing and mastering?
Forget high end converters unless your room treatment is truly world class, focus your money and effort there first as a boxy/echoey room will never be fixed in post production
@@adamsteelproducer ok that's great, but which PCIe l should be using or l don't need one?
Nice vid more up my alley than the guitar stuff. Been trying the GPU audio stuff lately very impressive.
is it possible to synch 2 raydats instead of raydat and madi?
I think so, you might have to find the right internal sync cable or jump one ADAT out to the other’s in (or aes or spdif) so they sync together.
Thanks for sharing this❗👍🤙
Brilliant.
12:08 yea let’s get connected 🤘🏽
19:40… 🤔open face pc dinner?
43:19 oooh yes that big beautiful list of… I can record everything and flex my outboard processing. I really wanna play crazy studio building with you sir. Once I hit the lunar lotto we need to schedule some frakenstudio building time ( I’ll still be a cheap ass after the win, just a better accessorized one)
Have a great weekend Sir
Buy another riser rack. Take the bottom plate from that and velcro it to the top ;)
Hype edits are overrated - I appreciate long audio lectures :)
Fantastic! At your service 😂
The Chin!
It’s in there somewhere!
And here I was thinking I was the only one who kept an actual ADAT machine or two around these days. 😀
I've been tempted to switch out some of our infrastructure to use some RME cards. But, I suspect the dread of tearing it all apart again and perhaps a bit of laziness has kept it from happening. Interesting video and thanks for showing and discussing some of the not-so-pretty behind the scenes decisions and and choices required when running a commercial record studio. It's a long way from just grabbing some gear and working at home when you start bringing in clients and charging clients to use your space and gear, however they may want or need.
Coming from giving lessions to getting lessions! Never stop learing Kids!
It’s the ciiiiircle of liiiife… 😂
I went down this rabbit hole after a decade of absolutely disappointing laptops and audio interfaces. I can’t believe the difference.I really regret wasting all that money on cheap stuff. The best desktop you can buy and RME is the way to go for home studios.