My neighbour had this type of in floor heating. He designed it himself. He had the pipes feed in/out of a small water heater ie) 10 gallon with circulating pump attached to it. We live in northern Canada so he filled the system with an antifreeze/water mix to prevent feeezing in case of a power failure. That thoughtfulness impressed me He was planning on installing same system for his 10 car driveway but I never got to see it as I moved. He was An engineer and always was messing around with stuff. Love your channel
You’re right Mike. Used to repair multi story parking garages . Lots of partial depth repairs at 1.5” thick. 5000 psi straight cement mix with shot gravel . It’s not easy to manipulate concrete when it’s that thin, and shrinkage was always an issue.
Great video! Do you ever pour these with a pump truck? Curious they didn't double plate the bottom plate of the walls to keep a nailing block for the bottom of the sheetrock. Standard practice in SC
Don’t you think that drywallers would be smart enough not to put screws across the bottom? As long as the painters don’t conceal your stud marks, the trim installers will be fine.
Yeah I thought that as well. You surely want to radiat the heat up rather than lose half of it down. Plus shouldn’t the pipes have stand offs so they are protected by the concrete underneath?
I’ve been doing tile floors for years and have used pumped gyptcrete but never straight concrete. What’s the weight deflection ratio on something that heavy ? Shrinkage and exp and contraction over wood ? Would a Sand topping mix be a better choice? Interesting concept but never have seen this done I’m in the north east too with cold temps and have seen houses exp and contract 1/2 inch sometimes. Good content btw
@@MikeDayConcrete I guess it could be equated to one giant mud bed 👍 I was just wondering if you’ve done 100s then it’s golden. Is there fibers in there. I do a lot of bathrooms old schools Style with mud,mesh and 3-1 sand mix. This is interesting !!!!
Could you have poured an inch, then come back and done another layer once it cured and do stamping? You did a video a few years ago about resurfacing a guys garage and stamped it. Thanks for the great content!
You can do these with minimal cracking if you can get your supplier to use a large amount of PCE water reducer and get your W/C ratio extremely low, like .35. PCE can turn a 1 inch slump into an 8. You're getting 200sf per yard so a very expensive concrete mix hardly matters. Basically a concrete counter mix.
Never seen this pour before. Does timber floor not need a membrane first. Any flex with this floor. What supports under floor. I have a question for you about 4 inch pour interior floors. Do they need rebar or not. Thanks. Great work in such a small area.
I am going to be doing this type of flooring in my new home in Appleton. It is 1850 square feet on the first floor. I have the double plates on all walls to allow for the first plate to be covered. I have been told screwing some 2x3 sleeper boards would help with the leveling process. I noticed in this video there were no such boards. Have you done floors with the sleeper boards in place? Would it be helpful or just overkill?
I’ve got a small 6’x6’ entryway that I would like to have polished concrete instead of tile. Would this method work? Or is the subfloor too unstable to keep it from cracking?
Some years ago I was asked to remodel an existing but very well abused main DT establishment…the was to be a bar restaurant…the theme was the trendy rust/exposed older masonry…..so cast in place concrete everything..countertops, floors…even made urinals and sinks from kegs…the restroom floors were to be 1” concrete over multiple alternating wood ply sheathing..similar to the Application for ceramic installations..I applied a few coatings of a non latex bond breaker sealer on all surfaces, small elevators of steel electrical staples to 1/2” and a 1 x 1” welded wire mesh tied to those elevators..the concrete was in the 6000 psi range mix, 1” in thickness……waterproof absorption, and of course cure agent in multiple applications…it turned out great and is about 8 years without fractures..I would have never guessed in a commercial setting…..
I wonder whether there isn't something you could attach to the front of the wheelbarrows where they hit the ground when they dump that could eliminate all the moving plywood/osb around on the floor. Seems okay to run over the tubing with the wheel, just not to tip/dump on it.
This is getting more & more common here in the UK but never ever seen it done with concrete they are always done with a liquid screed that's lightweight, flexible & just flows perfectly level & flat. On ground floor underfloor heating though it's just concrete slab 100mm PIR insulation pipes then regular screed.
Do you guys not have light weight concrete in Maine? We have it down here on Cape Cod. Its i do believe a lava type stone. They have to soak it for 24 or 48hrs prior to the actual pour. Its made exactly for that type of situations.
It's twice as expensive and not really that much lighter, a few pounds per sq ft for this type of pour. Not worth it. I started out doing these pours with LW concrete years ago, it's not needed for a floor that's designed like this one is.
Oh no kidding. I've used it before as well as had a few stones left inside the drum an it's a different kind of pour an finish. I thought it was a drastic # for # difference. I'll have to look into that for future jobs. Thanks
Seems PT should have been used by framers for bottom plates. Any leaks spills and those plates will become sponges. Additionally, makes Sheetrock and baseboards more difficult. But always cool to see how different jobs are done on the other coast.
Compared to your normal jobs, this looked like you guys were pouring concrete in a phone booth! With minimal space to work, everyone knew and did their tasks, no crying or crap. Now THAT is teamwork!
You guys are incredible. You make the job look so easy. I am a big fan. ;-) I made some quick calculations. 19lbs / sf x 900 sf = around 8 tons... or the equivalent of 5 to 6 cars. That must require a very strong structure. BTW Why not a more fluid leveling compound instead of concrete?
@@dscapes1091 That's where the engineer (licensed PE) comes in. The "dead load" calculation for the floor joist sizing would take into account for the extra weight of the concrete. Not a big deal.
I wouldn't have been able to resist making a joke about him spilling while moving the wheel barrow "hey careful you're getting it all over the floor!" hahahah
Framers should have doubled up the bottom plate to begin with. Now you'll have to add blocking to every bay. Also, why not just pump it? We pump almost everything here in SoCal. It would be so much easier instead of messing around with wheelbarrows. We always use lightweight concrete when doing something like this. We do it mostly for sound control. Not sure how regular mud will hold up. Tile contractor can use an anti-fracture membrane to mitigate any cracks.
Dragging the pump line over the radiant tubing is worse than wheel barrows. If you've never done it how would you know it's easier? The weight difference between lightweight and regular concrete at this thickness isn't that much. But the price of the concrete is double for lightweight. We've done 100's of floors like this with no problems.
Like I said, we pump almost everything here in SoCal, so yes, as a GC for over 30 years, I've done it many times. I seen many of your videos and notice you don't pump much, just curious as to why. We pump lightweight mostly on 2nd floors and above on apartments and condos, again mostly for sound. We don't do a lot of radiant floor heating through tubing. Most of our radiant heat we use is electric like NuHeat. We put that down directly under tile or hardwood. We don't have the severe cold like you do. I wouldn't see the pump hose as an issue over the tubing, we drag it over all sorts of stuff, and we'll put protection under the hose connections on sensitive areas. You guys don't pump much and we do. Not saying it's wrong, just different. For us, pumping is the way to go. To each his own. @@MikeDayConcrete
All new construction houses built here in Maine can handle this kind of weight. 1.5" thick mud, if we go thicker then there might have to be some increase in the sub floor framing.
I'm a tile guy lol I had to go over one of those pours this year they guy ended up making a couple bowels and humps. Had to pour some selflever all over it to get it 99% the customer picked wood plank tiles would have been sick with big 2x4 tiles
I'd like a rougher(sand) finish in the tiled areas,sticks better. Tough work in a tight space, good job 👍 I'm guessing self leveling compound is more costly and you have to mix it yourself?
Old-school dudes getting it done ! a dying art ,what’s gonna happen when these guys age and only the fat lazy ass video game addicts are left in the labor pool ? There won’t be anyone left to learn these specialty & necessary trades. Well done guys 👍
This screams NOVICE! The wood will suck the water right out of that concrete, weakening it! It needs a vapor barrier, like a plastic sheet between the concrete and the floor.
Guess it doesn’t matter if non pt lumber is submerged in concrete. Nice job, but totally backwards. Floors then walls. Maybe next time wait till the base board has been installed, then the owner can install carpet in the bathroom….
Pumps are for people in the 21 century dude! These dudes are tough! You know the old saying “if you’re going to use a wheelbarrow you gotta be tough” or something like that
My neighbour had this type of in floor heating. He designed it himself. He had the pipes feed in/out of a small water heater ie) 10 gallon with circulating pump attached to it. We live in northern Canada so he filled the system with an antifreeze/water mix to prevent feeezing in case of a power failure. That thoughtfulness impressed me
He was planning on installing same system for his 10 car driveway but I never got to see it as I moved. He was
An engineer and always was messing around with stuff.
Love your channel
Old School!! Wheeling that mud around! Oh Yeah👍😀Loove watchin the mag float. Thanks
Awesome, thanks John!
This should have been pumped. Could go in through the windows. Very surgical. The heating coils are not designed for wheelbarrows.
I’ve poured a lot of concrete in my day an I’ve never seen or done this before! Very interesting an it gives me ideas now!!
Great to hear!
You’re right Mike. Used to repair multi story parking garages . Lots of partial depth repairs at 1.5” thick. 5000 psi straight cement mix with shot gravel . It’s not easy to manipulate concrete when it’s that thin, and shrinkage was always an issue.
This will have lots of shrinkage and cracks but it all gets covered with flooring so not an issue.
Great video! Do you ever pour these with a pump truck?
Curious they didn't double plate the bottom plate of the walls to keep a nailing block for the bottom of the sheetrock. Standard practice in SC
We use a pump when the sq footage is bigger. This one is really quite small for a pump (at least for us) just as fast and a lot cheaper to wheel.
We double plate.
Have never seen this done before ! Interesting
Mostly done in colder climates, heated floors!
We do this over pre stressed concrete floor panels on comercial jobs. Last one was a funeral home.
You would think the framers would have doubled the sill plate on those walls the drywallers wont have anything on the bottom to screw off too .
Don’t you think that drywallers would be smart enough not to put screws across the bottom?
As long as the painters don’t conceal your stud marks, the trim installers will be fine.
So put infill blocks between the studs. And NO...they aren't smart enough but they really should have bottoms nailed
That'll be alot of scabbing work for sure.
When we build a house with infloor heat we always double plate the bottom
The number one rule of each trade is to do a "perfectly good job" that makes the next trades job harder.
Surprised there isnt a foil material on top of the plywood flooring ! Last one I did had it ! We used trailer mounted pump with a 2 in line also !
We've used the 2" line, it works good. This one was small enough we figured wheeling it was just as easy. (and cheaper)
Yeah I thought that as well. You surely want to radiat the heat up rather than lose half of it down. Plus shouldn’t the pipes have stand offs so they are protected by the concrete underneath?
I've never used straight concrete on plywood, usually primer and leveling compound, we always staple down metal lath to the plywood.
As a bonus, concrete floors are great for sound attenuation between floors.
Sure hope you got the Pex fixed where that hole got poked in it.
I’ve been doing tile floors for years and have used pumped gyptcrete but never straight concrete. What’s the weight deflection ratio on something that heavy ? Shrinkage and exp and contraction over wood ? Would a Sand topping mix be a better choice? Interesting concept but never have seen this done I’m in the north east too with cold temps and have seen houses exp and contract 1/2 inch sometimes. Good content btw
I don't have all the tech answers to your questions but we have done 100's like this in Maine with no issues.
@@MikeDayConcrete I guess it could be equated to one giant mud bed 👍 I was just wondering if you’ve done 100s then it’s golden. Is there fibers in there. I do a lot of bathrooms old schools Style with mud,mesh and 3-1 sand mix. This is interesting !!!!
Mike always a beautiful job skilled. Thank you I’m learning from you.
Yeah, I’m a female, who learned to do Hardscape from her dad and a friend
Cool, thanks
Hi Mike, could you explain the difference between using magnesium as opposed to a steel float when you hit it first. Love your vlogs .Jon Uk
Could you have poured an inch, then come back and done another layer once it cured and do stamping? You did a video a few years ago about resurfacing a guys garage and stamped it. Thanks for the great content!
You can do these with minimal cracking if you can get your supplier to use a large amount of PCE water reducer and get your W/C ratio extremely low, like .35. PCE can turn a 1 inch slump into an 8. You're getting 200sf per yard so a very expensive concrete mix hardly matters. Basically a concrete counter mix.
Enjoying all the videos
Thank you
Does the concrete effects wood?
Never seen this pour before.
Does timber floor not need a membrane first.
Any flex with this floor.
What supports under floor.
I have a question for you about 4 inch pour interior floors.
Do they need rebar or not.
Thanks.
Great work in such a small area.
It needs a vapor barrier. This is just a horrible example.
Gr8eat lookin job!!!
Thanks
That's a lot of dead weight on the floor. I'd like to see the floor joists below.
I am going to be doing this type of flooring in my new home in Appleton. It is 1850 square feet on the first floor. I have the double plates on all walls to allow for the first plate to be covered. I have been told screwing some 2x3 sleeper boards would help with the leveling process. I noticed in this video there were no such boards. Have you done floors with the sleeper boards in place? Would it be helpful or just overkill?
Is radiant heat tubes really needed in floor and how long do they last ?
I'm surprised they wouldn't go for a lighter material for bedding the in-floor heat.
I’ve got a small 6’x6’ entryway that I would like to have polished concrete instead of tile. Would this method work? Or is the subfloor too unstable to keep it from cracking?
I think I would double the sill and maybe lay some 2" rips of 1/2" foam if I did on a job. Looks good on your part though
Great job
Thanks
I have a barn with 6" first pour 30 yrs ago. Great shape,but Needs to be leveled by less than 2".. Installing a lift. What do you think ?
Seems like it'll be way too much weight. Is it doubled 2x12 floor joists and double sheathing?
It's not that much weight. Sub floor is 2x12 16" on center with 3/4 tung and groove plywood flooring.
i need to do this over an oil-painted slab. 1”-1.5” inch concrete. can i use this same mix?
Some years ago I was asked to remodel an existing but very well abused main DT establishment…the was to be a bar restaurant…the theme was the trendy rust/exposed older masonry…..so cast in place concrete everything..countertops, floors…even made urinals and sinks from kegs…the restroom floors were to be 1” concrete over multiple alternating wood ply sheathing..similar to the Application for ceramic installations..I applied a few coatings of a non latex bond breaker sealer on all surfaces, small elevators of steel electrical staples to 1/2” and a 1 x 1” welded wire mesh tied to those elevators..the concrete was in the 6000 psi range mix, 1” in thickness……waterproof absorption, and of course cure agent in multiple applications…it turned out great and is about 8 years without fractures..I would have never guessed in a commercial setting…..
Thank you that was awesome. how do you figure out how much concrete you’re going to need?
Why not just use the Warm board radiant system? Is this method more cost savings in the long run?
Ever done this using a self-leveling product with a pump?
Great job Mike as usual. Thats gotta cost extra working in such confinement.
I wonder whether there isn't something you could attach to the front of the wheelbarrows where they hit the ground when they dump that could eliminate all the moving plywood/osb around on the floor. Seems okay to run over the tubing with the wheel, just not to tip/dump on it.
How do you finish it?
Do you hand trowel it or just a bull float finish?
We trowel it smooth so the flooring guys job is easier.
I thought the more common thing to do in this kind application was a very wet, lightwieght gypsum mix that would self-level entirely.
This is getting more & more common here in the UK but never ever seen it done with concrete they are always done with a liquid screed that's lightweight, flexible & just flows perfectly level & flat.
On ground floor underfloor heating though it's just concrete slab 100mm PIR insulation pipes then regular screed.
Do you guys not have light weight concrete in Maine? We have it down here on Cape Cod. Its i do believe a lava type stone. They have to soak it for 24 or 48hrs prior to the actual pour. Its made exactly for that type of situations.
As he said in the video, it's twice as expensive, so regular concrete is more cost effective.
It's twice as expensive and not really that much lighter, a few pounds per sq ft for this type of pour. Not worth it. I started out doing these pours with LW concrete years ago, it's not needed for a floor that's designed like this one is.
Oh no kidding. I've used it before as well as had a few stones left inside the drum an it's a different kind of pour an finish. I thought it was a drastic # for # difference. I'll have to look into that for future jobs. Thanks
Seems PT should have been used by framers for bottom plates. Any leaks spills and those plates will become sponges. Additionally, makes Sheetrock and baseboards more difficult. But always cool to see how different jobs are done on the other coast.
The driver brian seems to be quit a guy. Let him know he makes some of us smile. Haha
1.5" thick concrete over wood that flex will not crack over time?
Sounds like it will have tile layed on top . I can't see the grout & tile not cracking eventually. It's almost guaranteed because the plywood flexes.
5/4 standoff dobbies would work perfect for the runners.
Compared to your normal jobs, this looked like you guys were pouring concrete in a phone booth! With minimal space to work, everyone knew and did their tasks, no crying or crap. Now THAT is teamwork!
You guys are incredible. You make the job look so easy. I am a big fan. ;-) I made some quick calculations. 19lbs / sf x 900 sf = around 8 tons... or the equivalent of 5 to 6 cars. That must require a very strong structure. BTW Why not a more fluid leveling compound instead of concrete?
The concrete is to hold the "heat" from the radiant tubes. Concrete holds heat much better and longer than self leveling would.
What did they do to the floor joists to beef up for added weight. Bexisse you have concrete plus tile ?
@@dscapes1091 That's where the engineer (licensed PE) comes in. The "dead load" calculation for the floor joist sizing would take into account for the extra weight of the concrete. Not a big deal.
Yeah that's a shitload of weight!
Hi. Do you work near Cortland NY?
Could this be finished with polishing or is it to thin?
It's kinda thin. It could be polished but it will have quite a few shrinkage cracks in it. 2 inches to 3 in is better. Then we can saw joints in it
I wouldn't have been able to resist making a joke about him spilling while moving the wheel barrow "hey careful you're getting it all over the floor!" hahahah
Framers should have doubled up the bottom plate to begin with. Now you'll have to add blocking to every bay.
Also, why not just pump it? We pump almost everything here in SoCal. It would be so much easier instead of messing around with wheelbarrows.
We always use lightweight concrete when doing something like this. We do it mostly for sound control. Not sure how regular mud will hold up. Tile contractor can use an anti-fracture membrane to mitigate any cracks.
Dragging the pump line over the radiant tubing is worse than wheel barrows. If you've never done it how would you know it's easier? The weight difference between lightweight and regular concrete at this thickness isn't that much. But the price of the concrete is double for lightweight. We've done 100's of floors like this with no problems.
Like I said, we pump almost everything here in SoCal, so yes, as a GC for over 30 years, I've done it many times. I seen many of your videos and notice you don't pump much, just curious as to why. We pump lightweight mostly on 2nd floors and above on apartments and condos, again mostly for sound. We don't do a lot of radiant floor heating through tubing. Most of our radiant heat we use is electric like NuHeat. We put that down directly under tile or hardwood. We don't have the severe cold like you do. I wouldn't see the pump hose as an issue over the tubing, we drag it over all sorts of stuff, and we'll put protection under the hose connections on sensitive areas.
You guys don't pump much and we do. Not saying it's wrong, just different. For us, pumping is the way to go. To each his own. @@MikeDayConcrete
Not enough room to swing a cat 🐈 great pour mate
It's one of my favorite British idioms. It's to bad alot of Americans don't know what it means
how long do you think it took to unload?
It’s that concrete came with pea gravel mike
Gotta get old having to keep reassuring that drive. Mike seems like a great guy but damn does that drive need constant validation.
?
We would always let the lumberyard know about all that extra weight if we were building it, they would increase the specs on the framing.
All new construction houses built here in Maine can handle this kind of weight. 1.5" thick mud, if we go thicker then there might have to be some increase in the sub floor framing.
Surprised to see that they did not double plate the bottom of the walls.
I'm a tile guy lol I had to go over one of those pours this year they guy ended up making a couple bowels and humps. Had to pour some selflever all over it to get it 99% the customer picked wood plank tiles would have been sick with big 2x4 tiles
i believe codee is "gunite" at 500 psi
Typically light weight concrete is used for this
Curious what the residents will have as flooring. Hardwood or carpet or LVP? Concrete is a hard surface ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'd like a rougher(sand) finish in the tiled areas,sticks better. Tough work in a tight space, good job 👍
I'm guessing self leveling compound is more costly and you have to mix it yourself?
👏
You guys should have of used a barrier to separate the concrete and wood. The concrete will eventually rot the flooring and sill out. Just fyi
Sorry after doing this for 42 years like this with no problems 100s of floors, I didn't know this
Face the barrel the other way you got plenty of room to do so. Sorry things like that bug the heck out of me
The guy wheeling faces it the way he wants.
@MikeDayConcrete I get it but he's heading the wrong way! Smarter not harder remember that
Old-school dudes getting it done ! a dying art ,what’s gonna happen when these guys age and only the fat lazy ass video game addicts are left in the labor pool ? There won’t be anyone left to learn these specialty & necessary trades. Well done guys 👍
The grout lines will fail and the tile will crack . Plywood is too flexible.
This screams NOVICE! The wood will suck the water right out of that concrete, weakening it! It needs a vapor barrier, like a plastic sheet between the concrete and the floor.
42 years of novice 🤣
@@MikeDayConcrete We have learned since that it sucks water out of the concrete and weakens it. Needs a membrane between the wood and the concrete.
Guess it doesn’t matter if non pt lumber is submerged in concrete. Nice job, but totally backwards. Floors then walls. Maybe next time wait till the base board has been installed, then the owner can install carpet in the bathroom….
Wasted money, wasted time.
@WestCoastCustomConcrete
Good pump application, no?
Pumps are for people in the 21 century dude! These dudes are tough! You know the old saying “if you’re going to use a wheelbarrow you gotta be tough” or something like that
Failure like gypcrete. Tile then cracks down the road. Sepetates from ply.nconration expansion. Crap solution. Run into this failure numerous times.