Unknown Identity: The Untold Life of a Donor-Conceived Person | Lizzy Forman | TEDxTheMastersSchool

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 440

  • @hollysidaoui8980
    @hollysidaoui8980 6 ปีที่แล้ว +288

    I'm donor conceived. I found out just over 2 years ago at the age of 19. I don't have a great relationship with my dad and don't know any of my donor's family. I have 6 half-brothers and 5 half-sisters from him and that's all. I pass people in the street and wonder if I could be related to them! I wish there wasn't so much taboo around this topic, I would love more advocacy for people like us and support for those like myself who find out in adulthood. I commend this girl for what she's doing!!

    • @nikitaw1982
      @nikitaw1982 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Do u feel good about having ten brothers and sisters? When u have ur own kids they will have all those uncles and aunties with familys attached.

    • @nikitaw1982
      @nikitaw1982 6 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      I have a son but I'm separated from the mother and my son who lives in a foreign country. I'm considering being a donor so he has siblings because me and his mother neither of us have a big family. Obviously it would be better if we were still together and I could be a father to my son but life is life.

    • @Queen-rl2uo
      @Queen-rl2uo 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@nikitaw1982 have you ever attempted to contact your son?

    • @allisonroche2892
      @allisonroche2892 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      I completely agree. I know that I have at least two half siblings but they and my biological mom are all anonymous. It's been extremely hard to cope with. I turn 18 soon so hopefully I get more answers then.

    • @jackson.denzler.
      @jackson.denzler. 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      I have over 50 half siblings

  • @Iguanaintrouble
    @Iguanaintrouble 2 ปีที่แล้ว +71

    You’re speaking for all of us. I found out at age twenty four but I had been lied to and told that my father had died in a car crash and was Australian. Neither of these were true. Initially I thought I had been abandoned or adopted. The truth, even if hard, is always better than deception. I won’t repeat the same mistake with my son.

  • @nathanmcmath
    @nathanmcmath 5 ปีที่แล้ว +92

    A powerful presentation from such a youngster. This needs to be talked about, and it will be the younger generation who shapes society's views on how donor conception is perceived and supported.

  • @sinnisstarleriche1220
    @sinnisstarleriche1220 5 ปีที่แล้ว +136

    "The traits that I got from my mom and the traits that I got from my donor are not the collective sum of who I am"
    I'm glad she knows that.

    • @StudStarz
      @StudStarz 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      The most important thing I heard her say! 😊 Although her eagerness to meet the donor came off as a little extreme (which is a bit scary for a couple who has to use a donor)! I did appreciate her story!

    • @LaurenLoGiudice
      @LaurenLoGiudice ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@StudStarz It's not unusual for a donor kid to want to meet their genetic parents. Most people want to know their roots. Glad you liked the story!

    • @StudStarz
      @StudStarz ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@LaurenLoGiudice I wouldn’t speak for all people. I find that lots of kids who’ve been told the truth in fact DO NOT have a desire to meet the donor.

    • @LaurenLoGiudice
      @LaurenLoGiudice ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@StudStarz I didn't. I said most - according to survey and studies that's what is found.

    • @Pleiades-111
      @Pleiades-111 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      No, but that and environmental factors are it

  • @teesense5502
    @teesense5502 5 ปีที่แล้ว +153

    Nice one! She’s pretty grounded and well adjusted. Her mother must be proud!

  • @BrandonMathers
    @BrandonMathers 4 ปีที่แล้ว +102

    The only thing that's frustrating about it...is that people assume it's hard or bad in some way.
    As if we are missing out on something.
    Think of it like this... Everyone experiences something that someone else doesn't. For instance, I haven't experienced being an astronaut. But because most people have two parents, it is commonly agreed on that two parents is normal and necessary. This is actually quite an egocentric perspective. We tend to use our own experience as the model of what is necessary.
    So if you haven't been to outer space yourself, you don't worry about other people who haven't been to outer space, even though going to there could potentially provide a profound new perspective on the universe.
    Every experience, including being a relatively rare case of donor conception, has the potential to be a curse or a blessing. Perspective determines whether any experience is good or bad for you. One could say you are missing out on my experience just as well. My experience has given me an incredibly unique perspective on life. Everything happens for you, not to you.

    • @misspst9585
      @misspst9585 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Ultimately it comes from a good place, even though I understand that it's frustrating to read and hear it. People who make those comments either encountered difficulties with their own identities or, through genuine care they imagine what it would be like and project those feelings--- even if they are not based on reality. In both instances, these people care but their view doesn't take proper consideration of the person's lived experience.
      So you are left with people who want to make the choice, who are emotionally, psychologically and financially ready for a child but who do not wish to establish a relationship just as a means to an end. They might figure that bringing a child into a stable, happy home, is better than settling for a relationship that they are unhappy in, where there might be significant relationship breakdown. They decide to go it alone. But what people sometimes fail to realise is that these people are often not 'alone' in the sense that they might imagine. They often have a support network of family and friends who support their choice and provide additional love, support and positive role models.
      Ultimately it comes down to this. A person made the conscious decision, weighed the costs and made the choice to bring life into the world with the full intention of putting their all into the role. They had a genuine desire to care for and nurture this child, despite what may be nagging feelings of self doubt or the pressure from society to conform to age-old beliefs. There is no room for value judgements when someone makes an informed decision like that. So in truth, you're right-- But try be patient with those who make those assumptions, they don't have your lived experience and genuinely struggle to view it in a way that validates it.

  • @LLK1169
    @LLK1169 3 ปีที่แล้ว +31

    Bravo! Well spoken and clearly raised with love and support. Impressive young lady.

  • @mariej6962
    @mariej6962 5 ปีที่แล้ว +112

    She is lovely. Gosh, why she is so sweet! Lucky mum. Congrats for the decision.

  • @LisaNarozhnykh
    @LisaNarozhnykh 6 ปีที่แล้ว +56

    Woah why just 3 comments?
    This talk is really underrated. It was really cool how she slowly found the other side of her family imo

  • @MotchOMotchOman
    @MotchOMotchOman 4 ปีที่แล้ว +64

    Thank you! It is great to see what an amazing young woman you are. I have a 3 month old son who I used a donor for. It is great to see being open about how he came to the world can help him be well adjusted. My donor has identity disclosure for my son when he is 18 as well.

    • @luciepst8769
      @luciepst8769 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Oh this is great. I would love to have this right too. But in my country I have no rights to know.

    • @solderbuff
      @solderbuff 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      What is "well adjusted"?

  • @KeshetAylonit
    @KeshetAylonit 5 ปีที่แล้ว +117

    I am donor conceived, and am planning on being a single mom by choice. I only know how it feels to be a DC kid from egg donation, and you have helped me see the other side of donation. Thank you, and I am so happy your donor was open + willing to communicate.

    • @strawberriesblueberries2258
      @strawberriesblueberries2258 5 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Keshet Aylonit beautiful comment. I wish you all the good luck.

    • @KellieJayKeen
      @KellieJayKeen 4 ปีที่แล้ว +27

      Keshet Aylonit it’s so selfish to bring a child into this world without one of their parents on purpose.

    • @KeshetAylonit
      @KeshetAylonit 4 ปีที่แล้ว +24

      Posie Parker No it f*cking is not. Families come in all shapes, sizes and colors. Chill out bigot.

    • @KellieJayKeen
      @KellieJayKeen 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Keshet Aylonit few people want to never know their dad.

    • @KellieJayKeen
      @KellieJayKeen 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Keshet Aylonit it is. Many people feel like they lack a connection if raised without knowing both parents, this can lead to life long trauma.

  • @meredithfletcher679
    @meredithfletcher679 5 ปีที่แล้ว +96

    This is why in Australia we have limits to 5 and 10 kids per donor so that there are not like 50 or 100 kids running around out there

    • @ebubechiibegbula5968
      @ebubechiibegbula5968 5 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Nice policy

    • @elenaland7863
      @elenaland7863 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Meredith Fletcher most countries have the 10 kids limit ,not just Australia

    • @misspst9585
      @misspst9585 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Yep! But you can appreciate the initial shock of people where this isn't the case or the mere concept of it. I must admit, if I didn't know the limits it would freak me out too.

    • @jivingdodo
      @jivingdodo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Same in Uk with the 10 family (not child) limit. Donors aren’t allowed anonymity either. Donating is a huge responsibility that you have to be aware could impact your life significantly in future.

    • @drifter4training
      @drifter4training 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      heard of Bryce Cleary ? from vice news, he unknowingly have 20 kids..

  • @strawberriesblueberries2258
    @strawberriesblueberries2258 5 ปีที่แล้ว +86

    She grew up healthy and beautiful. I think it’s an honor to be donor conceived and brought up to a loving home.

    • @aaronkonstantine2794
      @aaronkonstantine2794 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      It's like being adopted.

    • @katiedunbar3096
      @katiedunbar3096 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      @@aaronkonstantine2794 How exactly? The Mother of donated children carry their babies, give birth to their babies, and care for them their whole lives.

    • @taliabraver
      @taliabraver ปีที่แล้ว +6

      The moms didnt think about the childs feeling.

    • @leafy-day-light
      @leafy-day-light ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @holyempressw8531 It's quite different from being adopted. She is biologically her mother's child, and her mother carried her in the womb.

    • @jennraine
      @jennraine 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@aaronkonstantine2794 Not technically. She was of her mother's eggs.

  • @nickyblackford1462
    @nickyblackford1462 4 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Though it’s a beautiful thing to donate and help someone out it comes with a responsibility both on the donor side and the mother’s side

    • @danomo675
      @danomo675 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      No Cos the donor signs any rights away hence its anonymous

  • @spryght
    @spryght 5 ปีที่แล้ว +41

    I was conceived with a donor. I wasn't lied to. I was told as soon as I asked. When I tell people I don't have a father, they assume I was adopted and my brother isn't biological. He is. It is my biological family. People can ask too many questions.

    • @ozbrat82
      @ozbrat82 5 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Athena / How has not knowing your biological father impacted your life? I’m asking as I’m currently considering using a donor and am concerned about how it may affect my child in their teenage years more than anything.

    • @spryght
      @spryght 5 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      Oz Brat I have a very loving and accepting family and grandparents I was very close to. My grand father was the father figure in my life along with some of my close friend’s dads. Teenage years can be frustrating but that was just all the assumptions that you were illegitimate.

    • @ozbrat82
      @ozbrat82 5 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Athena / Thank you for replying. I live in hope that by the time my child hits their teenage years, not having a father won’t be so taboo, to the point where it’s simply a non-issue.

    • @misspst9585
      @misspst9585 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Thank you for sharing your experience. I think you mention what is perhaps one of the most important things that a donor parent should consider. It's not whether or not you have a 'father' in the traditional sense, but if you have exposure and a bond with positive male role models who love and care for you. It sounds like your family did a wonderful job raising you. People can ask too many questions, sometimes they're curious and well meaning but they also can do more harm than good. But you have a healthy perspective on life and that is a testament to yourself and your upbringing.

    • @CatherineYoungbauer-gw5lx
      @CatherineYoungbauer-gw5lx 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@ozbrat82 it doesnt affect you in anyway unless your treated badly in the home. im donor conceived, tell them asap. 5-6 is fine. and always focus on who they are as a person (smart funny, kind sweet, a faithful friend, a good sister) dont focus on their looks or what they "do" or grades. make sure they grow up kind and faithful to themselves, and to their own heart. there is nothing to fear about this process. we may even be better off because of being donor conceived who knows!

  • @justmeish1997
    @justmeish1997 4 ปีที่แล้ว +61

    I am Aromantic Asexual and am currently trying to conceive with a donor, I had a miscarriage last year but am trying again. I fortunate enough to have a known donor so the contact can be arranged without the searching and luck factor. It's important for people to know that these children are the same as any other.

    • @emryswalton1802
      @emryswalton1802 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Hope everything's going well! I am also asexual, and I plan to conceive with a known donor in a couple of years

    • @justmeish1997
      @justmeish1997 3 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      @@emryswalton1802 thanks... I just had my rainbow baby in May, a beautiful baby girl 💚 good luck on your journey

    • @lemurlover7975
      @lemurlover7975 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I'm asexual and want to just adopt a kid when I am 60 and have the career to pay for all their needs and mine. There are a lot of children in need of a good permanent home and nowadays single women are allowed to adopt and raise a child on their own. You can adopt a baby but if you really want to help out its the children over age 8 that struggle the hardest to find parents and especially boys more than girls struggle to get adopted and people of color struggle more than white people to get adopted in the USA.

    • @laura9266
      @laura9266 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@lemonbakewell5823 before 18!

    • @Pleiades-111
      @Pleiades-111 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      You need a psych team

  • @22mmq
    @22mmq 5 ปีที่แล้ว +122

    So imagine being in your 20s and leaving samples for money, and 18 years later get e mailed by a son/ daughter you have no relationship to asking existential questions trying to fill a void they’ve always felt...

    • @coreyjacq
      @coreyjacq 5 ปีที่แล้ว +35

      Margarita Martínez it’s the donors choice if they wanted an open or closed donation

    • @dsmith7684
      @dsmith7684 5 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      That'd be awesome

    • @lisam9885
      @lisam9885 5 ปีที่แล้ว +86

      Donors should understand: you are not "leaving samples" you are agreeing to be a part of the creation of a new life. This is a person that they had a part in creating. Donor conceived persons deserve to be able to ask their questions, just the same as persons placed for adoption. The donor is a part of their history and story.

    • @coreyjacq
      @coreyjacq 5 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Lisa M not all adoptions are open and it is and should be a choice for both parties involved

    • @backintimealwyn5736
      @backintimealwyn5736 5 ปีที่แล้ว +47

      @@coreyjacq some personnal choices have consequences on others ... therefore you need to think about it and stop making selfish choices . I think anonimized donorship is a violence on individuals to be. It"s wrong, who is anyone to decide that one has no right to know what makes up 50% of themeselves? Who are institutions to deny this basic right to anyone? WRONG.

  • @MichelMawon4982
    @MichelMawon4982 6 ปีที่แล้ว +86

    This was nice to see as I've often wondered how these people live and see the world

  • @elissaharbuck2170
    @elissaharbuck2170 3 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    What a beautiful and well spoken young woman

  • @readingwithrebekah
    @readingwithrebekah 5 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Her last sentence was so powerful.

  • @bbtumblebug
    @bbtumblebug 6 ปีที่แล้ว +131

    Thank you so much for sharing. I am a single mom by choice, and my 9 year old daughter often wonders about her donor as well. We did ancestry DNA and haven't had any hits yet except a distant cousin. We are in touch with 3 donor siblings. I loved what you said at the end, that you get traits from your mom, and from your donor, but they are not the collective sum of YOU. ❤️

    • @godikke
      @godikke 6 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      Having children is always a selfish choice whether you're in a relationship or not. To condemn one group of parents (single moms by choice) is narrow-minded.

    • @bbtumblebug
      @bbtumblebug 6 ปีที่แล้ว +26

      There are plenty of children who are conceived with 2 parents who end up being abused, neglected, tortured, etc. Those children would be much better off being brought into the world and raised by one parent who loves and adores them. I'm assuming you are a donor conceived person with a negative experience, based on your emotional response to my comment. I hope you are able to find peace. As for my daughter, I take her lead, and am more than happy and willing to help her find her donor and have a relationship with him, I do believe she has that right. Best of luck to you.

    • @godikke
      @godikke 6 ปีที่แล้ว +29

      Homes of single moms by choice aren't broken. It's just homes with one parent.

    • @cyntmacz
      @cyntmacz 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      LOL. How is it that everyone brings up abused and neglected children everytime this topic is discussed. As though that justifies all things related to this topic- even unethical practices. If anything- less people will adopt now. It's almost like- I am good- I am great- I deserve a biological child. Look at those crackheads having kids. I am superior but yet I have this disease of a biological clock. I would just cut the you know what and go back to Park Avenue. Stop bringing up the abused neglected child and just be happy you won the life lottery.

    • @anonymrs1260
      @anonymrs1260 6 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Godikke the homes might not be broken but the children are. There will always be a painful hole where the other parent would be - try as you might you can fix that or make it better. If it goes wrong said child could have a reason to hate you and it would be 100% justified.

  • @kit1063
    @kit1063 6 ปีที่แล้ว +42

    Idk why I read the title as a ‘door conceived’ person and I was shook

  • @brgibas111
    @brgibas111 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    This is incredible. She is such a good public speaker!! Thank you for sharing your story! 👏🏼👏🏼

  • @farahsummers1171
    @farahsummers1171 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    You are an brave intelligent & beautiful young woman! Clearly you have a great mother & good 'dna'. Thank you for having the courage to share part of your journey & I wish you a long happy life full of the most important ingredient, ♡Love♡

  • @simplycj5460
    @simplycj5460 5 ปีที่แล้ว +86

    What are the chances that she unknowingly meet and marry one of her half-siblings? That’s a bit scary.

    • @veyoung2224
      @veyoung2224 5 ปีที่แล้ว +36

      SimplyCJ there are over 327 million people that live in the US. My guess is that the chances are pretty low.

    • @klimtkahlo
      @klimtkahlo 5 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Well, people in Iceland are probably all closely related and they turn out great, apparently with the use of a cousins app, that tells you before dating if it is okay to date.

    • @strawberriesblueberries2258
      @strawberriesblueberries2258 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      We all come from Adam and Eve, so technically we’re all brother and sister.

    • @jillianwickham31
      @jillianwickham31 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      SimplyCJ Did you hear about the boy & girl twins who were separated and then fell in love and married later in life? You’re right - it is a scary thought. Not probable, but not impossible.

    • @screamingminnow920
      @screamingminnow920 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      i’ve never met my dad but i recently tracked down his dads side of the family and i was in school with a good few cousins it was crazy

  • @pinkface7759
    @pinkface7759 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    My dad was adopted; I wonder if the feelings are similar? I know the trickle down from not having my biological grandparents in my life was something I always thought about growing up.

    • @LaurenLoGiudice
      @LaurenLoGiudice ปีที่แล้ว

      Oh wow! Have you thought about trying to find them and contacting them?

  • @CatherineYoungbauer-gw5lx
    @CatherineYoungbauer-gw5lx 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    ive known my whole life and just found a sibling online, but she didnt reply. i hope to one day to 23 and me...knowing im one of the few that are told as a child is even worse knowing so many of us are not told soon enough, and feel lied to. thats the hardest part about donor conceived, its going online and seeing the amount of people who are hurt because they were lied to and just now found out in adulthood. on a happier note, i may have found a photo of my donor, and im glad i look like my mom lol

  • @AlexisDouFlo
    @AlexisDouFlo 3 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    "The traits that I got from my mom and the traits that I got from my donor, are not the entire collective of who I am."
    🙌 This 😍
    Edit: So much wisdom!!!

  • @ZackTuNan
    @ZackTuNan 4 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    I’m thinking to have my own children through egg donors but I’m also worried that my children will go mental feeling the need to find their mother.

    • @Healthyheartsbakery
      @Healthyheartsbakery 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      I understand what you’re feeling but don’t let that hold you back. You’re going to love them a lot and they are going to LOVEEE you back a lot too. Your love will overpower all the other things. Yes they might be curious about who the donor would be but you’re the one that will raise them and love them so no matter how curious they may be, they will NEVER leave you or reduce their love for you. Don’t worry so much about the curiosity part. Don’t let that reason hold you back from having kids. Everyday that you’re holding back because of this reason, it’s a day less spent with them.
      💕💕💕

    • @kttv9442
      @kttv9442 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      There are non-anonymous donors! Many of them are sometimes open to creating relationships with the offspring as adults, even just as casual acquaintances.

    • @DW94576
      @DW94576 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      You can always choose to go with a non-anonymous donor!

    • @DW94576
      @DW94576 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@kttv9442 hey are you on the we are donor conceived Facebook group? It's a great place!

    • @kttv9442
      @kttv9442 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@DW94576 I am! I love it!

  • @chantaldeanne1369
    @chantaldeanne1369 5 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    Her story is absolutely amazing.

  • @myopinions1
    @myopinions1 6 ปีที่แล้ว +104

    This is making me rethink using a donor dad for future children.

    • @myopinions1
      @myopinions1 6 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      @American single. I don't intend to ever marry but maybe I'll try to make sure the guy wants to stay in the childs life.

    • @myopinions1
      @myopinions1 6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @American Ajumma you don't have a right to an opinion.

    • @MileyCrazyLoud
      @MileyCrazyLoud 6 ปีที่แล้ว +51

      fathers are overrated

    • @zacharyforster5589
      @zacharyforster5589 6 ปีที่แล้ว +53

      I am donor conceived to a single mother. Please don't speak for me, you don't know my life.

    • @user-ee7kb6sf5g
      @user-ee7kb6sf5g 6 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      @American Ajumma that's very judgmental of you. This person could have numerous reasons for their choice - none of which, are of any concern to you. Having one dedicated parent who chooses to conceive and pay medical fees for that conception, clearly has parenthood as a priority in their life.

  • @deborahcrotta
    @deborahcrotta 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Lizzy you seem well loved and well reared. You are beautiful. I help you continue to move forward in your life and be amazing.

  • @jackson.denzler.
    @jackson.denzler. 5 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    Wow crazy Im from California cyrobank and was conceived in 2000 as well... I have over 50 half siblings

    • @qjtvaddict
      @qjtvaddict 5 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      This explains the increase in special needs kids too many half siblings having kids together

    • @brionyfrater4279
      @brionyfrater4279 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      They should really regulate how many people can get the same donor

    • @janjoy9759
      @janjoy9759 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      How do you feel about being donor conceived? I'm looking to do the same, but not sure if it will hurt the child mi matter hiw much I love the child and my family loves the child... your thoughts as a donor conceived child?

  • @berniceglamour9351
    @berniceglamour9351 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Still fearfully and wonderfully made!

  • @nmkone2207
    @nmkone2207 5 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Amazing presentation.

  • @krisbaum1974
    @krisbaum1974 5 ปีที่แล้ว +147

    i mean just look how happy she is to find her 'biological family' what does that say?? biology really matters..

    • @elenakelly1713
      @elenakelly1713 5 ปีที่แล้ว +70

      Im adopted and I disagree🙋🏽‍♀️

    • @krisbaum1974
      @krisbaum1974 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@elenakelly1713 fair enough, such a blanket statement i made obviously is wrong considering how many people like yourself that it doesnt bother. although this is about no father / missing father .. slightly different but of course i see the similarity too.

    • @ADerpyReality
      @ADerpyReality 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      We have been asking why on everything and are naturally curious since we were kids. Depending on our culture/how we're brought up as we age we can start to think we aren't as less and less questions are answered/rejected/ignored. Sometimes we figure out our own answers but we'd still like to know the 'real' one. Honestly it's a large reason why talking science to kids is more interesting than adults who don't want to accept certain things (what about a soul with brains) ignoring natural, curious wonder. Your biology can influence who you become medically or things like adopted kids are usually around the same intelligence as their bio-parents. It's not nature vs nature though it's both interacting, nuture behaviour can change within a few generations (father beaten as a child does not want to inflict the same on his kids or a bright parent who never really used that intelligence).
      Sometimes it's like how you look. It matters, it's just not the only thing that does.

    • @Illumnia548
      @Illumnia548 5 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      @@elenakelly1713 You can disagree. Biology matters to some people and doesn't matter to others.

    • @krmcmahon6896
      @krmcmahon6896 5 ปีที่แล้ว +24

      no, she was raised as an only child and was excited to have siblings so

  • @Jen.E
    @Jen.E 5 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    Ha, 20 years ago the "mother's" never imagined there would be at home DNA tests to find your distant relatives. Those that taught the kids they were biologically theirs were in for a big surprise.

  • @wambui4590
    @wambui4590 6 ปีที่แล้ว +35

    There is nothing strange about this because we have fathers but its not like they exist and hence we are not any different from people who have none.

    • @nikitaw1982
      @nikitaw1982 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Not saying this is ur experience but Often the mother lies about what happened with the father to make her self look good and will deny contact to maintain the lie. It's child abuse and fathers regularly commit suicide due to this, 21 a week is the latest stat I've heard.

    • @wambui4590
      @wambui4590 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@nikitaw1982 Its unfortunate that some mothers act on self interest but it always translate to mean good for the child. I also agree that children have rights and they deserve to be treated with dignity although most cultures and religions suggest that a mother should never be questioned.

    • @nikitaw1982
      @nikitaw1982 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@wambui4590 "mean good for the child" that is just not true. Biggest indicator of troubles in later life is being raised by a single mother. I don't know y anyone would say it's a mean good.

    • @wambui4590
      @wambui4590 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@nikitaw1982 Don't forget some women also become single mothers when their husbands die. ...and back to my very first statement, that people with both parents also encounter deep troubles in later life. The 'to mean good part' is only human, who wouldn't want to be viewed as the 'good' one in a deviated relationship? I agree the parents do it for their own satisfaction which results to blameworthy situations. A child is not a ball to kick left, right and center just because you gave birth to them; they have rights and they need respect. Most people just don't want to accept this. Its so sad how people use their children as shield while they engage in their wrangles. Its painful

    • @nambuacassandramlaki3516
      @nambuacassandramlaki3516 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      And May I add Jesus is your father too.

  • @JustMe-ug3mk
    @JustMe-ug3mk ปีที่แล้ว +12

    This was really sad to watch...I could never imagine what it's like growing up with questions about who you are. 😪

  • @Emy53
    @Emy53 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I love DNA. It's answered many questions for so many. Don't be afraid of it. Embrace it all.

  • @dion789
    @dion789 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I'm on the waiting list for a donor and the doctor I spoke to get information advised to be open and honest early on and it makes sense. I would want to know as a kid and not be lied to.

    • @SammiPDanton
      @SammiPDanton 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Also, remember to teach them as they get older that if they want to look for their bio parent that there is a chance said bio parents might not want to meet or be a part of thier life's and that something they have to accept that.

  • @ZaraBizara
    @ZaraBizara 10 วันที่ผ่านมา

    This is so depressing. I'm so sorry you are going through this.
    It's so weird to me the way they use the language of "donor eggs/embryos" almost like it's interchangeable for my eggs/embryos like it's almost the same thing when it absolutely is not. There's someone else's offspring, and there's my offspring. And those are not interchangeable things. And I think the trouble with the wording is it makes those of us who know and feel that it is not an option for us almost feel like we are bad for refusing it. What's even worse is, before even finding out what someone is willing or not willing to do, they'll use wording like "Are you not there yet?" or "Are you not ready for that yet?" Like they are sneakily inserting in a mandatory "option" on your behalf. And then they further gaslight us with the epigenetics BS. It's like, when people are trying to convince you to do "donor eggs" they say what really matters is growing the baby inside of you because then it's more like you in many ways than the parent of origin. But then why don't they say that when someone needs a surrogate? When you pay someone to carry your baby because you cannot carry do people consider the baby to be more like the surrogate and closer to the surrogate? Of course not. I would be crushed if I couldn't carry and needed a surrogate but I would still consider that baby mine while I would not consider a donor egg baby that I carried mine.
    As an anthropologist I will tell you that science shows that genetics actually influence people in so many ways far more than environment does. That's why we do studies on twins separated at birth because we can see how similar they are in so many ways. And how they always feel something is missing. Such a deluding, messed up situation.
    Even just recently a friend of mine was sharing her anxiety now that she has an Ancestry account that her dozens of children one day might find her on there to have a relationship with their mother. She donated eggs about 15 years ago and this anxiety has crept up because even though she's an egg donor she still knows there's a connection there no matter what. I think adopting a kid would almost be less painful than adopting an egg/embryo because when you do carry that baby even though that baby is not your true offspring, your body releases hormones and is tricked into believing it truly is 100% yours and you bond. And it's that much more painful when you see it become like the parent of origin or even worse, seek out the parent of origin down the line.
    I don't want a half him half her baby, I want our baby. :(

  • @libragoddess5990
    @libragoddess5990 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    When I think about this being a possible choice I get doubtful. I know for me I would love to be a mother but then part of me feels for the child. I feel like it might be selfish knowing what they go through later on as they start coming of age and wanting to get answers that are just natural

    • @trailertrish
      @trailertrish ปีที่แล้ว +3

      i didnt meet my dad until i found him when i was 28. this is exactly why im nervous to chose this route to have a baby, but i want to be a mother and im turning 38 in 2 weeks so i dont have much time left to find a partner to do it with. 😢

    • @actionaction88
      @actionaction88 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      This is exactly how I feel although I will be 40 soon.

    • @taliabraver
      @taliabraver ปีที่แล้ว +4

      You are the first to think of the child

  • @christinagurrola5335
    @christinagurrola5335 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I’m considering donor. I’m 39, my husband left. I’m not going to throw away my dream to be a Mother.

    • @haley2542
      @haley2542 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      A purely selfish attitude… sounds like a great quality for a mother!

    • @natashadickson4819
      @natashadickson4819 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Best wishes. ❤

    • @natashadickson4819
      @natashadickson4819 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      ​@@haley2542 You're basically saying that the beautiful young lady who gave this informative TEDx Talk never should have been born. You're saying that her mother "selfish" and should have grown old and died having not experienced planned motherhood and the love of her daughter. There are many beautiful things in this intelligent young woman's life, including just having life itself. It's great to have two loving parents (millions don't) but it's not everything.

    • @taliabraver
      @taliabraver ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I agree@@haley2542

    • @emiliavicquery1342
      @emiliavicquery1342 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ​@@haley2542and being judgemental to strangers is a wonderful attribute?

  • @southerntiger3107
    @southerntiger3107 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    She's a smart girl!

  • @WonderfulDay2023
    @WonderfulDay2023 4 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    The truth is that all humans are related. Period. (as well as all living creatures on the planet)

    • @solderbuff
      @solderbuff 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Exactly. People don't realize that all of us have some royal blood of the 1000-year-old monarchs. Possibly, through multiple lineages.

  • @vickigranacher3357
    @vickigranacher3357 5 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    I'm torn. Lizzie seems pretty well adjusted but I detect a longing in her heart for a 'real' dad not just a donor dad. How do you compensate for past years from the lack of a father figure? What model does she have for the traditional family unit which she obviously has an attraction to? If that were not the case, why would the desire for this personal connection be so strong? Otherwise, she would be satisfied with merely medical and ancestral details. Because you know how you were physically conceived doesn't make up for the emotional desire for that 'other' parent.

    • @dsmith7684
      @dsmith7684 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I get your point, but that's obviously part of what sculpted her awesome personality

    • @vulcanraven9701
      @vulcanraven9701 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@dsmith7684 Its even worse for sons who grow up w/o their dad. Its emotionally scarring. Met someone who was a test tube baby just like the speaker in video. hes very much struggling w/ this right now

    • @Evettecord
      @Evettecord 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      FIU Student never have a son if you are a smbc. Just abort & keep going until you have a daughter

    • @palesatalks6629
      @palesatalks6629 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Evettecord or if you can't accept any kid you get don't go for it . I'm really tired of seeing comments like these

    • @DR-cr3zo
      @DR-cr3zo 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      life aint perfect. You could have an abusive dad instead of a dead dad or a mom that leaves or a million things...

  • @itssarahbeth
    @itssarahbeth 2 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    You should be so lucky, your mother wanted you so bad in her life. There are many mothers who have children with mean men that don't want to be around and some mothers resent their child or raise their children alone. So whats the difference, having a dad that doesn't want the child or being loved and wanted by your mother

  • @shortmashins4031
    @shortmashins4031 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    The donor doesn't have to pay child support. Some people might lie about their profiles.

  • @aleenasaha986
    @aleenasaha986 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I didn’t know children could give ted talks but dope.... maybe if dudes got to spread their seed like they want, they would stop abusing women. And also kinda cool that this girl got such a big family. Lots of fun surprises

  • @johngillatt2740
    @johngillatt2740 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    The Picts originally lived in Scotland and the Scotts lived in Ireland. You may be Irish all along

  • @wubinyang8318
    @wubinyang8318 6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Amazing story and positive girls

  • @oliviavenegas4183
    @oliviavenegas4183 6 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Simple and beautiful.

  • @InterGemm
    @InterGemm 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Such a good story from a pretty girl.
    Live is loving yourself 1st, she loves herself and by the end of her speech she meant it. She will definitely make her mom proud 👏.
    God bless

  • @pernille1330
    @pernille1330 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I would much rather have a donor, than the father and his family that abandoned me twice

  • @KtP370
    @KtP370 5 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Literally laughed out loud when you said you educated the other children.

  • @divulgatrice
    @divulgatrice ปีที่แล้ว +5

    this kind proves that kids have an instinct need to know who r their parents whether u like it or not. Now u r in ur 40 why don t u adopt, maybe two kids, u would make them so happy, and u would b fulfilled. It is a win-win.

  • @mrsmutawa6210
    @mrsmutawa6210 5 ปีที่แล้ว +68

    So basically people in the USA walk around not knowing they have siblings and possibly marrying/ having children with them. Super advanced.

    • @simplycj5460
      @simplycj5460 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Exactly! Sounds like there are no precautions to prevent this from happening.

    • @klimtkahlo
      @klimtkahlo 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      It is a non issue with dna testing now. It is the way of the future!

    • @violetevergarden5160
      @violetevergarden5160 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Europe to. But it is rare. I have never meet another donor conceived child. 99% of people I know heard about it first because of me.

    • @agees924
      @agees924 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Mrs Mutawa Well Thats kind of the same thing that happens for all these men that go around impregnating dozens of different women.

    • @reviewranger4202
      @reviewranger4202 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Just like when you are adopted. Are we not supposed to do it?

  • @jessicak4223
    @jessicak4223 5 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    Was there a point to this? If it was for general curiosity, it fell short. It seemed to end abruptly before it even took off.

    • @kttv9442
      @kttv9442 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Ron Bush ah yes, it’s selfish to want to know my real health records. And it’s selfish that i was sold off before birth for a few grand by some random person that chooses our relationship dynamic for eternity before i’m even born.

  • @user-xx9ok2lg2nhflobbsf
    @user-xx9ok2lg2nhflobbsf ปีที่แล้ว

    U got the bubbles from the doner ddy?

  • @amritagill1680
    @amritagill1680 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Very powerful ❤

  • @silence9122
    @silence9122 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    No wonder you turned out so normal 👏👏👏

  • @seniorcarlos686
    @seniorcarlos686 6 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    You look beautiful and sound smart

  • @veer49
    @veer49 6 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    My mom told me and my twin exactly how having babies works and how we were conceived just like Lizzy's mom. I have been wanting to do a dna test, but they are quite expensive and our ancestry will just say something like 90% Broadly North-western European (because Dutch and Belgian people do not have a specific dna and my family and donor are Dutch).

    • @tanyabrown9839
      @tanyabrown9839 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      If you test through 23andME, it matches one up with related family, I know that is not the only DNA place which can be used.

    • @jackson.denzler.
      @jackson.denzler. 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I’m a twin as well my and my twin were donor conceived

    • @qjtvaddict
      @qjtvaddict 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      You do realize all these problems can be avoided by simply having a 2 parent household

    • @vulcanraven9701
      @vulcanraven9701 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      veer9: its a disservice to kids to deny them growing up w/o their father

    • @sophierobinson2738
      @sophierobinson2738 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      FIU Student So what about all the young war widows?

  • @lalina1304
    @lalina1304 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Precious 💕

  • @IamDoge
    @IamDoge 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The reason for hiding it is about child support, not social shame.

  • @shernettebolton3849
    @shernettebolton3849 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    This was great

  • @kylaevanovich6516
    @kylaevanovich6516 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    thank you

  • @Emy53
    @Emy53 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Do donors want to be contacted and bond with possibly 100's of children that he didn't raise? What about the children? Do they want to bond with the donor or half siblings?

  • @kcc628
    @kcc628 6 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Brave smart girl!

  • @mesopotamialover905
    @mesopotamialover905 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    The dismantle of humanity ...

  • @cameronmcphee8224
    @cameronmcphee8224 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I’ve never seen a TED Talk before and this just appeared in my recommended, I have no idea how TH-cam figured out my heritage considering I’ve never watched anything on the subject but there you go 😅

  • @sara35ish
    @sara35ish 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome. I think that Lizzy gets it

  • @krisbaum1974
    @krisbaum1974 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    isnt this a little dark underneath it all? why should a poor kid have to even think about this? surely just a regular family you already know is a much better option instead of yearning to know the one you dont...

    • @joanlynch5271
      @joanlynch5271 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Some people are just curious, and I guess others are not.

    • @krisbaum1974
      @krisbaum1974 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@joanlynch5271 yes sure, but going to the trouble of talking all about it on TED suggests its quite a big issue no?

    • @pragawa
      @pragawa 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@krisbaum1974 it'd be for me!

    • @misspst9585
      @misspst9585 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I think it's genuinely difficult for people who have lived differently to understand this. But It comes down to identity. She had a curiosity to understand her identity and she places value in the biology of her origins. Many people do, many people don't. I think it's healthy and important that people look at these talks as a means of broadening your understanding of other perspectives and lived experience even if you cannot relate on a deeper level. At the very least, she might be relatable to others who have gone through her journey.

    • @brionyfrater4279
      @brionyfrater4279 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@misspst9585 i think its worse when the donor is anonymous tbh

  • @StefanyMiaTV
    @StefanyMiaTV 6 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    👍
    Education

  • @allentraylor5659
    @allentraylor5659 5 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Not sure i understood the relevance , of this speech

    • @palesatalks6629
      @palesatalks6629 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @N Mil I'm appalled by your ignorance

  • @sencanboz2645
    @sencanboz2645 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Why not

  • @yelloworangered
    @yelloworangered 6 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    How is it that TED talkers (x or not) have the same irritating 'I know I'm adorable" and "I'm really pretending to be humble" body language and voice?

  • @Jaditzatpsn
    @Jaditzatpsn 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I'm a mixed culture guy, I am 30 years old of age, I am really considering becoming a donor
    My cultural background is of Irish, Scottish, English, Niger as in the country which is pronounced as nee-ZHER, Filipino and Native American (Cherokee)
    I'll look very young for my age, My photo is for all to see :)
    I'm 6'7 in Height and very healthy, I have no children, I'll currently live in Dearborn, Michigan.

    • @strawberriesblueberries2258
      @strawberriesblueberries2258 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Team BSAA you are such a wonderful person.

    • @jackson.denzler.
      @jackson.denzler. 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      You might be too tall

    • @qjtvaddict
      @qjtvaddict 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Don’t do it. It’s not worth it.

    • @palesatalks6629
      @palesatalks6629 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@qjtvaddict how do you know that ? Have you done it before?

    • @jasonrock5220
      @jasonrock5220 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Don’t do it my man.

  • @mustafahanifi8298
    @mustafahanifi8298 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    So beautiful

  • @tigerlily48
    @tigerlily48 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    like I said before internet is the main caused why things are the way are

  • @TheRubberStudiosASMR
    @TheRubberStudiosASMR 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Donors are just wankers

  • @nambuacassandramlaki3516
    @nambuacassandramlaki3516 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

  • @user-xx9ok2lg2nhflobbsf
    @user-xx9ok2lg2nhflobbsf ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Not bad. It’s sum good quality EGGS I can tell by the bubblez

  • @rashindiznab3756
    @rashindiznab3756 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    hi

  • @42kritik14
    @42kritik14 6 ปีที่แล้ว +25

    Who cares? You're human. You're alive. Get on with it

    • @abhisheksuratkar
      @abhisheksuratkar 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      she's 16

    • @guavapastries2727
      @guavapastries2727 6 ปีที่แล้ว +23

      It’s not that simple. I wanna know my family history. I wanna know where my genes come from. I don’t think it’s your place to tell someone else how to feel when they haven’t had a father figure in their life.

    • @nikitaw1982
      @nikitaw1982 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      She has a huge family all over. Great!! Her kids will have so many uncles aunties cousins.

    • @krmcmahon6896
      @krmcmahon6896 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      it’s her life. if you had lived it im sur you would want to know, and i’m sure others in her situation watching this find it helpful. choke

    • @kaeleetanis6203
      @kaeleetanis6203 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      please don’t say anything about how we should feel unless you’ve been in our shoes. If you’ve known where you come from your entire life, I don’t want to hear why we shouldn’t be able to. Thanks.

  • @JennyOSunshine
    @JennyOSunshine 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    😭 😭 😭

  • @drifter4training
    @drifter4training 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    heard of Bryce Cleary ? 20 kids are born based on his genetics..

    • @jesicalynn4299
      @jesicalynn4299 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      His story is what brought me here!

  • @markwilkie7633
    @markwilkie7633 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You can hear the hurt in her voice.

  • @Morningstar-xz5bl
    @Morningstar-xz5bl 5 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    my dad died before i was born, i have always longed for a dad. they say a daughter really needs her dad and that relatioship will influence who she marries etc so it is a sin that these children have been created for selfish peolple. there is an affect on the child obviously although she doesn't know it yet

    • @krmcmahon6896
      @krmcmahon6896 5 ปีที่แล้ว +37

      Morningstar stop projecting your issues onto a healthy and kind individual. your existence is a sin because all you seem to do is spread hate.

    • @KeshetAylonit
      @KeshetAylonit 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      You want to explain that a bit more?

    • @strawberriesblueberries2258
      @strawberriesblueberries2258 5 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Sometimes it’s better just to have one parent

    • @kristingallo2158
      @kristingallo2158 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@krmcmahon6896 she definitely wanted her father. That's why she was excited to find him. Most don't.

    • @vulcanraven9701
      @vulcanraven9701 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@krmcmahon6896 The sleaker us obsessed with the identity if her father that she never got to know-the other person is right, youre wrong

  • @MrZerosphere
    @MrZerosphere 6 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    I feel for this little girl. Still a child of God.

    • @teesense5502
      @teesense5502 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      LG lol

    • @cthpham
      @cthpham 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      See, a religious comment that can still be positive. No matter what your views on on AI and SMBC, it doesn't have to be negative and rude.

    • @neelanjanachatterjee4857
      @neelanjanachatterjee4857 5 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      The word "still"sounds condescending. Not a positive sentiment coming from a Christian.

    • @solderbuff
      @solderbuff 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Christians are so arrogant. Argh.

  • @talltrees358
    @talltrees358 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    No such thing as a bustard everyone has a father Wether they know them or not.

  • @markwilkie7633
    @markwilkie7633 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    This is so sad. She is protecting herself from emotional trauma

  • @jag5798
    @jag5798 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I had to do a lot of skipping to move to the finale. Good job in story telling, but edit it down from any cutesy parts - total time 5 mins.

    • @tanyabrown9839
      @tanyabrown9839 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      I really enjoyed all her talk.

    • @krmcmahon6896
      @krmcmahon6896 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      her words are too good for you anyways

  • @greylady8178
    @greylady8178 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Just depressing. People are assholes

  • @starblasterhq9879
    @starblasterhq9879 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    There ya go uploading again 😂

  • @hankmoody5514
    @hankmoody5514 ปีที่แล้ว

    the father gave her really good genetics.

  • @Tia-Louisa
    @Tia-Louisa ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Breeders are SO selfish!!!!!!! Why cant they adopt?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!

    • @ۥٴٴٴٴٴٴۥۥ-ظ
      @ۥٴٴٴٴٴٴۥۥ-ظ ปีที่แล้ว +2

      It’s too expensive the children parentless got adopted and sold out by lots people

  • @lilli9822
    @lilli9822 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    poor woman. all this investigation to find the father and siblings..

  • @thehorselessheadman3366
    @thehorselessheadman3366 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    THE EARTH IS FLAT, SHEEPLE