Cliffe Classics #18 - Give Me an Answer
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ต.ค. 2024
- Recorded - Fall 1997
The "Give Me An Answer" ministry began as an outgrowth of the dialogues Cliffe Knechtle has had with students on various university campuses throughout the United States. These universities include the University of Maine, Harvard, MIT, University of Florida, University of Texas, University of Wisconsin, University of Minnesota, University of California Los Angeles, University of California San Diego, Berkeley, Stanford, University of Hawaii and the University of Washington. Cliffe spoke on these campuses in front of the Student Union or Library at noon for five to ten minutes. At the close of his initial remarks, he'd open up the time for questions and answers, which usually turned into a two to four hour dialogue with students. His crowd size ranged from 25 - 500 students at a time, and between classes, new students would join the discussion. This is an extremely effective way to reach a large number of university students with the Gospel of Christ.
#Evidence #Christianity #Jesus #apologetics
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 84 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องศึก vs เมืองไทย"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3kuzsAIDf1c/mqdefault.jpg)
I can watch Cliffe all my life, morning, afternoon, evening, night. God Bless You!
Cliffe has been nailing it longer than I’ve been alive lol love this vid he hit so many important big questions. God bless you Cliffe, you helped me come to my faith when I did exactly as you say to do in this video and one day just honestly and openly asked God to reveal himself to me and searched some TH-cam videos which lead me to your channel!! Answered a ton of questions my “super rational” self had been conflicting with and blew away some presuppositions I had about the faith.
Just read this and praising God for you my brother! Cliffe is a very real man of God.
Howard did good , very articulate and generous in his choice of words and use of tone
Yea his general misunderstanding comes from the analogy which completely ignores the weight of their testimony at the time, a more accurate testimony would be if his supposed letter carried the penalty of death for even talking about it, and ensured everyone he loved would be ridiculed, embarrassed, and hated for generations, and that an experience that genuinely changed his life would be mocked as a scam so that his future predecessor in 2000 years would have a way to “sell books”. A ridiculous and poorly thought out attack on the God who gave us salvation,life, and happiness.
@@user-oj8zo3cr4byes, I think the fact that he went from killing Christians to evangelizing the world for Jesus in a time where it carried a death penalty definitely lends credence to his testimony.
Amen!!! Such a blessing to have these free and available on youtube. Thank you and God Bless!
This is the best gift today !
Thank you Mr. Cliffe. God bless you
The road to damascus part in this video reminds me of a testimony of what happened to Samuel Morris. Truly God is at work in everything and even through people like this. Great video and God bless !!
God is going to judge everyone unique ,fair and just.That's the great point in many of your videos.God bless you.
Is it “just” to pay for the wrong doings of others ?
@@jasonnoble7302 Jesus paid for us for our wrong doing so that not one of his children is judged.That's the only way,he is the only way.
@@selgenreigns1559
That’s not what I’m asking
My question is
Is it “just” to pay for the wrong doing’s of others ?
@@jasonnoble7302 By God ‘s standards of righteousness sending Jesus Christ to be the propitiation for our sins because we are unrighteous is just.There are people who have been unjustly accused of crimes that others have done and we call that unjust in the courts of man.
@@gingercake0907
Is it justified for God to not accept Jesus paying for the “sins” of people who are atheists ?
What’s Gods justification?
Proud to be the 200th like for objective, meaningful truth of reality in Christianity.
Atheistic objective values through the universal structure should be celebrated
🎉
@@jasonnoble7302 Come talk when you can actually explain "universal structure" please
@@robmc120
What is your criteria for an explanation ?
Philosophical or empirical or something else ?
See, you believe in something based upon your criteria. I believe in something based upon my criteria when it comes to a worldview.
The difference between us is you hold me to your belief criteria and I don’t hold you to my belief criteria when it comes to a worldview definition. What makes a worldview proposition irrational is it contains a contradiction that can not be justified. You justify the Christian Gods contradictions by claiming God can not be held to human standards. So a good God can kill children and remain good because he God. God can not be immoral.
The only criteria for a proposition to be logically impossible is it must not contain a contradiction.
The universal structure is eternal
The universal structure is the source for everything
The universal structure preserves all things
The universal structure exists outside of space and time
The universal structure is removed from material
The universal structure interacts with material
The universal structure reveals objective values
The universal structure reveals purpose
There’s no contradictions within my worldview. When you are asked to give a explanation of what God is what is your answer ? “God is spirit” . What is spirit ? Can you demonstrate “spirit” ? Are you asking me to go beyond what your own explanation requires ? Because it sure sounds like you are Robby boy
@@jasonnoble7302 Just what is the Universal structure exactly & how & by what mechanisms have you determined it is is external ?
@@jasonnoble7302 Your "universal structure"is fallaciously straw manning the true God, thanks for displaying your ignorance! May God have mercy on your soul.
Valuable teaching from the word of God for the educated ignorant delivered by Mr Cliffs to help them
It was refreshing to see Cliffe debate (what I assume is) a professor
Nearly fell asleep for him to get to the point... he must be.
There is a difference between Paul and Howard. Paul was writing in a time related to the events of Christ's life. Paul flipped a 180 and went from being on the winning team, to the team he had been persecuting and he met with the eyewitnesses and they affirmed his understanding and revelation.
And it helps that Jesus was an actual historical figure that many saw not just one eye witness. While supernatural events can and do happen, they by themselves are not evidence, but an experience that will change those individuals personally that God has put in place. Through the change in their behavior and actions is the evidence come to life.
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.
We need more videos from you Cliffe!
I love these videos. Especially when he's clapping atheist students and there dogmatic beliefs.
@justingary5322 lol
Ummm I think you got it flipped with the dogma there
Thankyou askclifffe for eksplanation of lust and hatred. Its found deep meaning 👍👍
I enjoy watching these AskCliffe videos. I really like this one. Because he makes it clear belief in God is both evidentiary and emotional. As he said you don't go on scientific dates. When you meet your soul mate, you don't write down and analyze their stats to figure out whethe4 they would make a good partner to fall in love with. You ask questions, find out who they are and you find out what a wonderful person they are. You open your heart and fall in love, you want a stronger connection with them. With God/Jesus study the evidence (get to know him) then open your heart and love will come in. I see why many people are atheists because they scream about evidence like God is only a lab experiment or math equation. That is why they cannot explain consciousness, the mind, why we have emotions, abstract concepts contract the strict naturalist worldview they put their faith in. Yes atheists have faith too, (faith in naturalism), but they dont admit it.
Cliffe in his prime is the best
True for all of us ,however he is still on point
Great video cliffe, love you man
I hope Cliff has learned more about the historicity of the gospels since these days. He hangs on hard to the gospels independence from one another and the authenticity of their authorship. This totally got in the way of him being able to process what the guy was asking him about Paul’s revelation being trustworthy.
GOD bless you 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏 from India
I knew it, i knew that the core of his issue with the Gospels is the supernatural miracles it mentions, which comes from a premise that miracles aren't possible, so it's a preconcieved bias against the supernatural, it his nothing to do with the Gospels themselves.
God is good 🙏🏼
God bless 🙌 🙏 👏 ✨️ 💛 💯.
I'm forever grateful to Cliffe for convincing me that a Hebrew monster named Yahweh exists and wants to have a relationship with me
instead of admitting I don't know the answer to many unsolved mysteries and continuing to examine the available evidence.
God Bless you and may he continue to not just strengthen your faith
You speak to the sheep 🐑 🎶 our fathers word and you will be blessed
I feel like this is one of those situations where cliffe should’ve know the right thing to say (Paul persecuted Christians for probably about 2 years before his conversion, he wasn’t just some random dude that said he had an encounter with Jesus) but his pre-loaded answers seem to take over.
Team Jesus always
That puppy story is so great
The guy , Norman(?) if you use his premise for life we would never believe anything and always question history and what anyone says at any time.
3:28 If you will permit, "I'd like to do a thought experiment". Do you really ever say no when a guy is next to him looking like he's waiting to open up that coat with either a fun show or a gun show😂😅
Yeah...He left out the 180 turn of Paul's life! Going from killing Christians to Dying for Christ Jesus!
✡️✝ Acts 9:1
"And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,"
✝️✝ Acts 9:2
"And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem."
Howards analogy at the start made perfect sense to me, if Saint Paul's conversion happened today, I doubt many people would believe his story, but back then it may have sounded authentic. Howard was making the point that heresay is not a reliable source, especially if someone is making extraordinary claims .. in this case, that Paul of Tarsus had a vision from Jesus himself on the road to Damascus. There is a MUCH more plausible explanation for what happened to him I believe. It would seem to me he was having some form of frontal lobe epileptic fit, it would explain his temporary blindness, heat stroke from the hot sun, hallucination, change of personality. Epilepsy would have been practically unknown to people living 2000 years ago, .. had they seen someone in that condition it would baffle them, same as if they saw someone shaking on the floor foaming at the mouth, eyes glazed over...that would be seen as someone possessed by a demon, not a medical condition. If, today, a man had a similar experience in the hot sun, and had an hallucination, claiming he saw Jesus, no one would believe him. That was the point Howard made very well i think.
well, the story goes on to say that paul went blind and once getting to Christian people was healed.
Not that it is so crucial for our Faith but i think this fact has a good historical basis.
Or Paul was just lying. He often feels it necessary to write in his letters that he is not a liar. Hmmmm. He also lied when he performed a Jewish ritual at James request when he visited Jerusalem to prove he wasn’t preaching against the Jewish faith in his travels. Oh and then he said he would assume the role of anyone he was standing in front of to persuade them. Seems to me there’s good reason to think Paul had no problem lying and did so often.
@@joecline1114 i am not here to adhere to paul.
But he's my brother in Christ
and you blaming without understanding and bringing judgement is unfair
the point was, he'd do anything in order to bring people to The Gospel
That is, when talking to pharisees, be like a pharisee and argue Scripture like Jesus our Lord
when talking to greeks, Scripture is not that impactfull and so preaches more of philosophy.
the second time, the point was not to offend anybody. Why would you.
Jesus showed us to do this when He gave money to peter so they could enter The Temple
He didn't have to of course, why would you pay to get into your own property. Despite this, Lord Jesus cares for the people and doesn't make unnecesarry conflict
@@uganda_mn397 do you mean you don’t adhere to Paul’s version of Christianity?
@Justin Gary that was a lot, but I’ll make a couple quick comments in reply. First on slavery. I don’t speak for all atheists, but I really don’t care what the Bible says about slavery, except from the historical perspective, that it was actually practiced during those days. The Bible is not a good place to get your morals, so I don’t try to justify slavery or anything else in it. Second on Jesus, there’s a misconception that there’s only 2 choices on who Jesus was, liar or lunatic. Historically speaking, we know that he was probably a messianic rebel who got killed for opposing Rome, then later mythologized by people living in Greek speaking Roman cities other than Jerusalem.
How can you lose your salvation? God would have to be a failure?
Psalm c91 says
15. He will call upon Me and I will answer him. I AM with him in trouble. I will deliver him and honor him. 16. With long life will I satisfy him and show him My salvation.
We cannot save ourselves only God can. All Christians are not as strong in their faith as you Cliffe.
He has sworn an oath God Almighty that He will never leave us or desert us.
We are our own worst enemy.
Paul was a former blasphemer. Do you think he still struggled with that?
The old man is dead nailed to the cross We are risen with christ ETERNITY.
Don't call yourself a sinner when Jesus died on a cross for you suffered the wrath of God for you and worse of all he suffered separation from God His loving father.
Think.
Someone get saved by Jesus receives the Holy Ghost and then says I don't believe in you anymore Jesus, is the Holy Ghost going to say I am going you are not a true believer laughable hahahahah
What verse says god limited himself?
Amen 🥹🥹brother🥹🥹🥹Amen
*Why are there so many paintings, sculptures and statues of a Lion laying down with a Lamb? And why are there so many businesses with Lion and Lamb in their name? And what about the song lyrics and movie lines that have them together? They aren't ever mentioned together in any bible!*
*This is one of the most iconic verses in the bible and anyone who doesn't see that it's been changed obviously never read their's much!*
Isaiah 11:6 as it is today
*“The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.”*
AS IT WAS: Isaiah 11:6
*"Then the lion shall lie down with the lamb, and the bear shall eat grass like the ox, and the child shall play on the hole of the asp, and nothing shall hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain." (KJV).*
*What Jesus and our Father have spoken will never change, their promises are still good and our prayers are still answered! Hallelujah!!! But as impossible as this sounds, like so many of the true stories in scripture, our bibles have all been supernaturally changed by Satan in the last several years, right in our homes, in the fulfillment of prophecy. It's being done to prepare for the reign of the antichrist and the extermination of all Christians. All languages and all translations have been changed with black magic along with concordances, encyclopedias, dictionaries, history books, the ancient Hebrew, Greek, Latin and Aramaic manuscripts. Even the Dead Sea Scrolls have been changed!*
*I'm 70, was saved when I was 10, and have read only the exact same copy of the King James bible my church gave me in 1961. (This does not mean I was a King James onlyist bit now I'm glad I never read other versions or I might not have noticed the changes as easily) I had memorized many scriptures from it through the years. Then in 2014 I started seeing changes in it that I couldn't explain. I have an exceptional memory, I remember my 3rd birthday party and can draw a picture of my baby stroller. I had never owned a computer and had never heard of the Mandela Effect back then. But after finding out about this phenomenon a year and a half later when I was given my first computer, I finally found out why I had been noticing all of the oddities in my bible. I then started diligently studying what should actually be called the Daniel 7:25 effect. That's where God said He would give the antichrist the power to do this. We're seeing the fulfillment of end time prophecies happening SUPERNATURALLY! This is some of the "lying signs and wonders" in 2nd Thessalonians chapter two!*
*God said in the end of days, (NOW!) that He would send us a famine for hearing His words in Amos **8:11** and that He would give the antichrist the ability to do this in Daniel 7:25. In Daniel 12:4 He told him to seal his book until the end days. He told John **_not_** to seal his book because the end time is at hand in Revelation 22:10. One of the Greek definitions of seal in Strongs concordance is “to protect from Satan”. He also told us to “write His words in our hearts”, which meant memorize, if not word for word at least the essence of what was written, because He knew this was going to happen. He also warned us in second Thessalonians chapter two, that He would send a strong delusion to all that didn’t receive the love of the truth. I'm convinced that this is at least part of it! (not seeing the changes) The only scary thing about this is that maybe 1% of all Christians have noticed any of the **_thousands_** of changes yet!*
john oz Yes residue junkie I was a backsliden Pastor, away from God for over 25 years. When I found out that Isaiah 11:6 had supernaturaly changed from a lion to a wolf it spun me out, and as a result it brought me back to Christ. I have been back in the arms of Jesus for 12 months now. I see changes in the bible constantly now. For example, you can not find the words, "hallelujah, demons, wineskins" in the Old KJV bible anymore. Too many changes to go into. In Gen 1:1, the word heavens has changed to heaven. It no longer has the letter s in the word...
*God commanded us to "prove all things", and people **_better_** obey Him, especially on this subject. I urge you to research this. There are many brothers and sisters making videos about the changes with more proof of what was originally written and I have lots more about this in my playlist which you can 👉 find by clicking on my Lion and Lamb profile picture, or by typing into TH-cam PROOF OF BIBLE CHANGE RESIDUE JUNKIE.* 👈
*I've continued to study scripture by learning what Satan has been changing. If we don't have internet some day, or YT censors **_all_** truth, we'll only have hard copies of the bible that **_Satan_** wants us to read. At that point, Amos **8:12** will be fulfilled where it says we won't be able to find God's words anymore!*
*_May God bless all who read this with eyes to see this proof of the validity and accuracy of God's prophetic word, incredible faith strengthener and how close we are to our Saviour's return!!!!_*
❤✝️💪
*P.S. If you ask for them at the address on my ABOUT page I'll send you links for films that YT would never think to allow you to see like the 14 that prove the v is the ''mark''. We can also discuss things without all their censoring BS.*
You are incorrect about Isaiah 11:6. No KJV has the lion laying down with the lamb, plus in your false quote you mix in Isaiah 65:25. You my friend are changing the Bible and leading others astray. SMH
*What Jesus and His Father have spoken will never change, their promises are still good and our prayers are still answered! Hallelujah!!! But as impossible as this sounds, like so many of the true stories in scripture, our bibles have all been supernaturally changed by Satan in the last several years, right in our homes, in the fulfillment of prophecy. It's being done to prepare for the reign of the antichrist. All languages and all translations have been changed along with concordances, encyclopedias, dictionaries, history books, all of the ancient Hebrew, Greek, Latin and Aramaic manuscripts. Even the Dead Sea Scrolls have been changed!*
*I'm 70, was saved when I was 10, and have read only the exact same copy of the King James bible my church gave me in 1961. (This does not mean I was a King James onlyist, but I'm glad I never read other ones or I might not have noticed the changes as soon.) I had memorized many scriptures from it through the years, then in 2014 I started seeing changes in it that I couldn't explain. I have an exceptional memory and can draw a detailed picture of my baby stroller. I had never owned a computer or heard of the Mandela Effect back then. But after being given my first computer in 2016, I finally found out why I had been noticing all of the oddities that I couldn't explain. Then I started diligently studying what should actually be called the Daniel 7:25 effect. That's where God said He would give the antichrist the power to do this. (Change times and laws) We're seeing many end times prophecies being fulfilled SUPERNATURALLY! This is some of the "lying signs and wonders" God told us He would give the AC power to perform which would even deceive His very elect, if it were possible in 2nd Thessalonians chapter two!*
*God said in the end of days, (NOW!) that He would send us a famine for hearing His words in Amos **8:11** and that He would give the antichrist the ability to do this in Daniel 7:25. In Daniel 12:4 & 12:9 He told him to seal his book until the end days. He told John **_not_** to seal his book because the end time is at hand in Revelation 22:10. One of the Greek definitions of seal in Strongs concordance is “to protect from Satan”. He also told us to “write His words in our hearts”, which meant memorize, if not word for word at least the essence of what was written, because He knew this was going to happen.*
*God commanded us to "prove all things", and people **_better_** obey Him, especially on this subject. I urge you to research this. There are many brothers and sisters making videos about the changes with more proof of what was originally written and I have lots more about this in my playlist 👉 which can be found by typing in (PROOF OF BIBLE CHANGE RESIDUE JUNKIE)* 👈
*I've continued to study scripture by learning what Satan has been changing. Soon Amos **8:12** will be fulfilled too, and the only way it can happen is by not being able to see these videos that document what used to be written in our bibles.*
*_May God bless all who read this with eyes to see this incredible faith strengthener, and how close we are to our Saviour's return!!!!_*
*P.S. Everyone is going to learn about this one way or the other. I'm just trying to save people from hearing Jesus explain it to them at the Gate.* 🙏✝️💪
@@senorblondie *The films in my playlist could easily prove you don't know what you're talking about in any court of law in the world.*
@Guppy *Yeah, some of us wrote God's word in our hearts. Jesus will explain this to you at the Gate.*
Howard is soo right, so should we take Paul words as Christ absolute instructions or not
I'd say take them with a pinch of salt, and think for yourself. Is it possible he could have been having an hallucination?
He’s leaves out a big part of the context of Paul’s life though, he was a man who literally had everything and killed Christian’s then just ups and decides to join them throwing everything away, he had nothing to gain
18:32 WOW he looks so much like will poulter
Howard your friend Bob wasn't threatened with his life for his testimony
👏👏👏
Turn up the main volume im a truck driver
Howard's analogy was terrible. I would have retorted with. If you told me you're friend bob was publicly executed and then 3 days later rose from the dead and bobs 11 closes friends and hundreds of others witness his resurrection and willing to die claiming they saw, talked ate and interacted with the resurrected bob for 40 days then id believe howard
Cliff Jesus would not speak to you like that and you are a wonderful man of God. We have the gift of righteousness in the spirit and the fruit of the spirit.
Paul said it was not a righteousness of his own but Jesus's righteousness we have been made righteous by faith not our works.
Actually if you really think about it, the works that Paul is talking about are very likely the religious works of the Jews before conversion.
Paul had a problem. And the problem was the Gentile converts who came from a background of not having a clue about God.
And in the presence of Jewish converts they understandably would have felt very inferior.
And Paul in an effort to alleviate this problem, he essentially says, hey all these religious practices of the Jews, are good, but it’s not what got them saved. They aren’t saved by those good works.
But today we have Christians misinterpreting this and using it as an excuse to lead lives that are not holy.
i love cliffe but i feel like he was talking in circles this video
A response to the "hearsay" argument. Hearsay is not "S/He said ___". It's "He said that she said ___". John said Jesus claimed to be God. Me telling you that John said Jesus claimed to be God is hearsay. John saying that Jesus claimed to be God is not hearsay. That's why you don't take it from people quoting the Gospel, you read it for yourself.
The problem is malhaloc, why should we trust the gospels?, they were written decades after the so called events, can you name me one person who wrote about Jesus while he was performing miracles? I've read the gospels lots of times and for me personally, they read as stories, not actual events in history. If you read them as factual, good for you. I'm not convinced.
@JacobOfTheOT thank you Jacob, you're starting to see sense ☺
@@bonnie43uk Good point. I can't find one courtroom stenographer who was typing up conversations and events as they were happening. But the reason that doesn't dissuade me is because that's true for all historical events. No one wrote anything down as it was happening. That doesn't mean the testimony is unreliable.
Why do you say they read as stories? I mean obviously they are stories, but I assume you mean they read as fictional stories. What makes you say that?
@JacobOfTheOT
Good job Jacob 🎉
@@Malhaloc I spent a bit of time answering your last comment Malhaloc, but it's totally disappeared, which is quite frustrating, i made what i thought were quite good points, i picked a random passage out of the New Testament, from memory i think it was Matt 28, he mentioned a great earthquake in regards to the empty tomb.
Psalms 1,
Psalms 91,
One of the reason why man hate God is because of suffering. But suffering is the consequences of man disobedience, Not God's love.
Do you deny the laws of cause and effect ?
Actually you’re right but I think the main reason why there are those who hate God is as follows. Compared to God we are nothing. And that’s a hard pill to swallow. But we the believers get around this by joining forces with God. And because we have elected to love Him we begin to synergise and amalgamate with Him. But those that hate God are this way because for them there’s no way to get around the effects of their inferiority. They hate God because of His greatness. Do they know this. No probably not.
@@paulwilfridhunt
Actually Its less about God and more about keeping our freedom to express our rights to criticize beliefs. It’s about making sure people who believe in the Christian God are limited. We don’t want a to give Christianity too much power over society…
“Remember what happened when they had all the power”
Christopher Hitchens
@@jasonnoble7302ou are aware that David Hume was skeptical of cause and effect? you must also be aware that Hume also raised concerns over the problem he had with induction without which there can be no Laws. Both issues which remain unresovled and subject to endless discussion.
@@peterberr3888
What’s your point ?
That believers in Christianity should remain skeptical when it comes to Gods reasoning ? That the laws of cause and effect we have discovered should not be applied to God’s reasoning ?
I come in the name of the Lord Lionwarriorkings Leon Guerrero Reyes my name has power
“I HAVE THE POWER” !!!!!!!
He man of castle Grayskull September 5 1982
I see you better the the ones who say they are apostles but are not
Why didn't Jesus write anything down?
@Justin Gary If Jesus wrote a book and wanted us to have it, we would have it.
Jesus assigned his disciples to do that.
And what do you know we have the bible so it all worked out almost like he knew.
@@dogelife7901 The gospels are one thing. But we're talking about Jesus, God in flesh speaking directly to us, not needing an intermediary.
What difference will it make if he writes book?
Forgive me for doing another one of my long essays here, I realize it's a lot to read but there's no easy way to explain it and I would appreciate it if you would take the time to read it before responding if anyone wishes to respond, which everyone is welcome to. Now, this is what I would like to say. Presuming it is all true, then I most certainly appreciate that God came down in the form of man and put himself through what we go through as human beings and then eventually, as the story goes, he allowed himself to be crucified as a sacrifice for our wrongdoing.
I get all of that in principle, and as I say, if it's true then I appreciate it, however, if we are to accept the story and accept God's salvation deal, we must also face up to the fact that there are a lot of elements about it that don't make logic in the way we, as human beings, understand logic, and there are a lot of questions about it that cannot be ignored.
For a start, we're supposed to accept that whilst God was on Earth in human form, he was also, at the SAME time in Heaven overseeing everything that was going on and he was even talking to himself, having a short two-way conversation, of sorts with himself, and then when he was dying on a cross, he was effectively giving himself up to HIMSELF Luke 23:46 "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit".
Now, my question has to be, how does that even make any sense? How could he have been both in Heaven, away from the sacrifice as the one overseeing it and accepting it, and yet at the same time, he was the one being sacrificed on Earth? I don't know. Other than to think "well, he's God, he can do anything" but that's not an actual explanation, in fact, thinking or saying "because he is God" etc is an acknowledgement that we don't have an explanation.
So if I am to believe in this and accept all of this and accept the deal incorporated into it, I have to accept it while not really understanding it. And I presume it's the same for all current believers, they accept it but don't understand it, even if they might not all want to openly admit they don't understand it.
Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying because I don't understand it that's the sole reason I won't accept it, because as many Christians would correctly point out, there are plenty of things I accept without really understanding them, even if they're not quite in the same league as not understanding how a being can be both on Earth being killed whilst also being somewhere else, away from it but yes, I take the point.
Look, let me be very clear here, I would be happy to accept the deal, I would have no problem accepting Jesus as my saviour if that's what I need to do because if there is a Hell, I DON'T want to go there, of course, I don't want to go there. Of course, I would rather go to Heaven given the option but accepting the salvation deal to avoid Hell and get into Heaven wouldn't stop me from asking questions and that's all I am doing here, just asking questions because there is a lot about it that isn't making any sense to me and I can't hide that.
I'm not going to switch my brain off and commit intellectual suicide even if I were to accept the deal, I would continue to openly ask those questions and acknowledge all of the elements of it that I don't get, I'm not going to try to pretend that I understand what I don't understand and the fact is that I don't understand it all. I don't understand why it was necessary for the highest being of all to have to sacrifice himself to himself in order to forgive us when he would have the power to just forgive without going through all of that.
I mean, I'm not trying to be funny but it's not as if there was anyone higher than God standing over him saying "no, no, no God, you can't do that, you can't just forgive without a blood sacrifice". Well, who's got the authority to tell God what he can't do? Nobody, so why was it necessary for him to do all of that just to forgive when he is the one who has the ultimate authority to decide to forgive anyway?
Again, I don't know and if I were to accept the salvation deal, I would have to accept it whilst at the same time I must acknowledge that I can't understand why it was necessary and I would also have to acknowledge so many other things I don't get either, like couldn't God have just wiped out Lucifer when he first started his rebellion instead of letting him cause more trouble? Once, again, I don't know.
The underlying assumption you seem to make is that God is totally understandable in all His fullness by us. I am sure you can find explanations of the Trinity and Sin etc on the Web or in books so I won't feebly attempt to elaborate. But will ask a different question.
What if (see Isaiah 55:8) He has aspects that are completely "other" and alien to us? What if while we do share some aspects of His image, incompleteness within us leads to a too small impression of Him? For example, He created the world and it may be that we cannot fully understand or model Him in worldly terms using our limited brains made of a tiny proportion of the number of atoms in the creation. Do you think our little brains can in fact generate an infinite number of thoughts? Materially, can a brain of limited components generate or achieve an infinite number of brain states (thoughts) within it? I suspect this may be tricky to know either way. And if infinite human thought is not possible, then it is quite possible that to try to think of who God is *in His fullness* may in fact be out of reach; one of those thoughts that sit outside of the reach of a limited material brain, it may be a thought that corresponds to one of those material brain states or thoughts impossible for finite material Man to actually generate. We might only be able to comprehend tiny glimpses of His totality with our material brains. Now if in fact we have non material minds, that is a quite different thing entirely.
I read your whole comment, i pray you read & honestly respond to mine:
"For a start, we're supposed to accept that whilst God was on Earth in human form, he was also, at the SAME time in Heaven overseeing everything that was going on and he was even talking to himself, having a short two-way conversation, of sorts with himself, and then when he was dying on a cross, he was effectively giving himself up to HIMSELF Luke 23:46 "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit"."
You dont seem to understand God is triune: three _persons_ (Father/Son/Holy Spirit),one _being_ (Sovereign God). Its not 100% conceivable as we have no equal in His creation (Isaiah 46:9), but that doesnt mean the elementary concept cant be grasped.
"Now, my question has to be, how does that even make any sense?"
How does ANYTHING cohesively in reality make sense in your wv better? You seem to remain unable to honestly & consistently explain reality altogether without the triune God. But thats where you cut off the convo bc you dont want to honestly think about it, because it would mean youre accountable to your sin, despite your "claim" that "I'm not going to switch my brain off", yet you wont look at any foundational aspect of reality & what best explains objective reality (God).
"I don't understand why it was necessary for the highest being of all to have to sacrifice himself to himself in order to forgive us when he would have the power to just forgive without going through all of that."
The sovereign God is holy & just like any righteously good judge, as Cliffe has explained multiple times, a judge who "just forgives" a law breaker as you want Him to be isnt a just judge, he'd be morally corrupt. So God cannot "just forgive" sinners.
Do you think you're a good person if you grant *(for the sake of argument)* the triune God of the Bible exists?
Have you ever lied(Exodus 20:16)?
looked at someone with lust(Exodus 20:14/Matthew 5:28))?
used God's name in vain(Exodus 20:7)?
These are just three of the commandments (Exodus 20), we all fall short (Romans 3:23) & defy the God who created the universe (Genesis 1:1). The wages of this sin is death, physically (Romans 6:23a) & eternally (Hebrews 9:27). If God judges you by His standard when you die? where will you go? Christ Jesus (John 1:1), the Son of God in the Triune Godhead (Matthew 28:19) was born of a virgin by the Holy Spirit (God, see Matthew 28:19, 1:18 & Luke 1:35) to die for our sins (John 3:16/Romans 5:8/Romans 6:23b), taking the punishment we deserve on Himself freely(2 Corinthians 5:21). If you repent of our sins (turning away, not just saying sorry & playing the hypocrite going back to it) & trust in Jesus for our right standing with God (Mark 1:15), we are justified in God's sight, absolved of our sins (Isaiah 1:18), a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17). God says whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved (Romans 10:13).
All other religions are works based, Jesus said "I am the way, the truth & the life, no one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6), no other religion claims that, please consider His unique, free offer of eternal life & a clean slate, transformed by the Holy Spirit (Romans 12:2).
I pray the only triune God of the:
1)supernaturally prophetic (Romans 1:26-32/2 Timothy 4:3/Matthew 24:6/1 Corinthians 1:18 fulfilled in reality today)
2)historically verified (archaeologically & anthropologically by Christians & non-Christians w/enemy/early/multiple attestation, internal consistency, embarrassing reports, etc.)
3)transcendentally/objectively moral (Exodus 20/Matthew 22:37-40) Holy Bible reveals Himself to you in Spirit & objective truth (John 16:13).
May the triune, infallible, omniscient God bless you with faith in Him, not fallible man’s limited knowledge of theories.
@@peterberr3888Hi Peter. Thank you for your honesty, I commend you for it. Because what you're saying to me is "John, I agree, there are indeed things about God we don't understand and we may possibly have to accept that we will never understand but we just have to accept it".
Great, I agree with you and that's much better than what many try to do which is pretend they understand it and yet they don't really understand it.
It's all very well Christian's saying to me "hey, John, you don't understand that God is a triune being" etc, correct, I don't understand and neither does anyone understand it in terms of the how.
This is why whilst I am happy to respond to you and some others, there will be some I won't bother to respond to, even though I'll still read what they say and respect their views, they're welcome but I just wish they could be as honest about it as you and stop pretending to understand what is beyond human comprehension. Best wishes.
It’s been a while since I’ve visited this site and here I am bumping into you again John. How are you and is all well? You’re a thinker which might have resulted from your atheism. And that’s ok. That’s good. We are all trying to figure this out John particularly the deity of Jesus Christ. Who was Jesus praying to. I’m still thinking about this. You might not like this analogy. But imagine if you could turn yourself into a rabbit. You’d be a rabbit. Right? But you would know that you were a man that turned yourself into a rabbit. It gets a bit tricky trying to explain to all the rabbits that you’re actually a man that has turned himself into a rabbit. Would they get it? Probably not. Anyway aside from that. Is the man that you were lost forever or does he somehow still exist. And if he does, can you still communicate with him even though now you are a rabbit? If we assume that it’s possible to communicate with the man that you were before you became a rabbit it would mean that you would be communicating with that man you used to be who apparently still exists. Jesus must be praying to who He was before He turned Himself into a man. That’s how it seems to be to me.
This is my latest take on why there had to be a sacrifice. You are right. God could have avoided it all. He could have prevented Satan from coming here. So why does He do it? This is what I think might have happened.
Ok we know that God knows everything. Therefore before He created the angels He knew that one third of them would rebel against His authority. He knew this would happen.
At this point we need to realise that without the agency of a tempter, namely Satan, we too would have eventually rebelled against God.
But maybe when we tempt ourselves it becomes so intoxicating we can’t entertain the idea of getting back on track with God. Maybe repentance is an impossibility.
Let’s not forget that the angels are infinitely smarter than us and if they couldn’t repent then how could we. The remaining angels in heaven must have tried reasoning with them but all to no avail. And the two thirds shifted out the one third.
But I think God saw an opportunity in all this. I think He reasoned that He could make a race of creatures perhaps even greater than the angels, who would be copies of Himself but in the form of what Jesus currently is, as king of kings in heaven in a glorious state.
Also if He allowed man to not have a tempter it would have ultimately resulted in the complete failure of mankind. And just as God would not have created man if He knew there wasn’t going to be the righteous 8 to save on Noah’s ark, neither would He create us if it was going to result in total failure.
But what is the advantage to us to have a tempter? Firstly our guilt is not as great as the fallen angels because our sin wasn’t entirely our fault. We got conned into it. But as the angels in heaven who remained loyal to God proved themselves by not succumbing to being disobedient, as did the one third disobedient ones. This proof that they obtained made them greater than what they previously were before the proving.
Ok now when we prove our loyalty to God by getting fully on side with Him in full obedience, we too get an improvement in our character. And this improved character, which we played a part in, makes it possible for God to ultimately turn us into greater creatures, in the life to come, that I previously mentioned. And we have no idea what this will be. Because we don’t have the wherewithal to be able to conceive of it.
But the downside to all this is because of being tempted and falling into sin we unavoidably fall into the captivity of Satan. And Satan is never going to let us go. Repentance would not be possible. We are stuck with it. However if God Himself offered Himself as a sinless sacrifice, as a ransom, it would be an offer that Satan could not refuse.
Therefore God knew before creating us and the angels that in order for this to work out, for those who could be loyal to God, like me, and maybe like the you that you are going to be, then the only thing that would work is He would have to become a sacrificed man. But nevertheless He goes ahead with the plan. The interesting thing is why. Yes we can sum it up as love but the expansion of that is as follows. It’s the joy He gets out of it. And this joy is based upon the pleasure of turning us into what we are yet to become. It’s the joy of giving. It says in the Bible that Jesus endured the cross because of the joy that was before Him. Today is the sabbath in NZ and I set the day aside to write as I’m doing with you. If you’ve got questions today is the day to ask them.
1Corinthians 2: 9-10
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
Hebrews 12:2 KJV
looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the JOY that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
@@paulwilfridhunt Thanks, Paul. Well, that's as good a theology as most, I guess. Even in the face of mysteries that we may never be able to fully understand, we can still exercise our minds and try to propose ideas and continue to ask questions. After all, if there is a God and he gave us our rational minds, then it would seem rather a waste if we switched them off and stopped using them.
so you dunno if someone can lose their salvation
Have you not read John 3:16 6:47 et al
OSAS or no S
Repent and trust in Jesus. Hes the only way. We deserve Hell because weve sinned. Lied, lusted stolen, etc. But God sent his son to die on the cross and rise out of the grave. We can receive forgiveness from Jesus. Repent and put your trust in him.
John 3:16
Romans 3:23❤❤❤😊
Sir, i have seen a lot of retar.ds, like Wiliam LAME Craig or Ray Comfort, its sad that youre a few steps away of their stupidy but getting closer everyday.
Salvation can be lost, Hebrews 2:1-3, also Judas saw all of Jesus miracles and how He lived, yet hung himself, 1 corinthians 3:17,
Have you ever lied, stolen, used God's name in vain, looked wuth lust? if so you need to repent today and Believe in Jesus Christ to save you from Hell and go to heaven instead
Under our apostle Paul’s ministry, to be SAVED, you must BELIEVE The Gospel of Jesus Christ,1 st Corinthians Chapter 15 verse 1-4.Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sins,was buried,and rose again on the third day.Jesus Christ’s Shed Blood is what saves you when you believe this plan of salvation with your heart.
Ok Howard, the chopping block is ready. As Paul died for Christ, it would be now your turn. Off with the head? Would you do that for a lie? I doubt it very much. The only way to believe a lie it is to be brainwashed with fear as some cults do. But then one will easily find out that that's the case. The other possible option would be if you were delusional but then again that mental imbalance would show in your life. Paul went on to write the most incredible, intricate, amazing literature ever written. No sign of delusion, he performed miracles, he even raised the dead. Could you do that Howard? Beside, that would place you as a prophet of sorts but the Canon of Scriptures and prophecy or receiving God's words for the Bible stopped with John the Apostle. If you said that God showed you a light, well, that's possible, some Christians are saved in peculiar ways but that could be a Hollywood stunt, a UFO, or an evil spirit.
So, there are ways to check if your conversion was true. The events must be close to Christ's resurrection and departure. Also In Paul's case another witness received God's message to deliver it to Paul. What an incredible witness. Moreover, your life would change, you'd be out there preaching, delivering the gospel under God's guidance. Hence, if that was not true, you'd be caught like the notorious leaders who created contorted offshoots of Christianity in the last few centuries. Even millennia ago, many tried to launch their personal cult but they all failed the tests to be considered from God.
Therefore, you would fail to show that your "revelation" to extend the Bible was from God. Besides, the Bible reports the story of the world from beginning to end, it's all done, nothing to be added, finito. The only time these public wonders could possibly happened again would be in the end-time but by then it would be impossible to deny the truth of Scriptures because everything would be revealing in front of everyone's eyes.
A new Christian study confirms that in all actuality the real virgin was Joseph.
😳
no, the world wasn't as screwed back then as it is now.
Male or 'male' wasn't able to be pregnant
Another new Christian study confirm that Joseph was a murderer. And another confirm that Mary was not a virgin. Is there any other study? I want to know more.
@@uganda_mn397
The claim that a male can get pregnant is equally as absurd as the Christian claim a virgin giving birth
🤷♂️
@@jasonnoble7302 well, yes.
Without the premise of God existing
And to show God has His touch everywhere is not difficult at all
@@uganda_mn397
Okay great 👍
How does the God hypothesis predict a virgin birth ?
a truly repentant born again Christian cannot lose their salvation, to suggest otherwise or respond that we cannot know if someone can lose their authentic salvation ultimately brings in works to the Gospel of grace - i mean think about it, one can be assured of their salvation and we can know that as the whole book of 1 John explains, then maybe lose it, then what, receive it again, would that not call for another sacrifice of our Lord Jesus, then lose it, and gain it, over and over... once one is truly saved, their name is written indelibly in the Book of Life, John 10:28 I guess Cliffe is contemplating the the situation of an insincere faith, a christian in name only.
Have you ever lied, stolen, used God's name in vain, looked wuth lust? if so you need to repent today and Believe in Jesus Christ to save you from Hell and go to heaven instead
God never became a human being God manifested himself in a body to do the works that was being led by the spirit the spirit in the man was God not the flesh and blood that walks around in the person of Jesus God never became anything Cliff does not know what he's talking about
Jesus said I am who I am
When Moses spoke to the burning bush God told him I am who I am.
@justingary5322 because God is not born he always was so there for he never became anything. Manifested is the term that should b used when talking about the creator not became
@@rodrigodasilva7862 u can keep barking in the comment section and pretending like u know what ur talking about while vomiting ur heresy... however anyone that can read can easily read the bible and see what Jesus said and didn't say.
@@rodrigodasilva7862
Good job 🎉
Well, there's nothing to stop you from saying "Cliffe does not know what he's talking about". Equally, though, there would be nothing to stop Cliffe from saying the same thing to you. Now, I'm not here to claim which of you (if any) has got it correct and even if I was, it would still be just MY opinion on the matter and there would be nothing to stop you or Clffe or anyone from saying "hey, John, you're talking a load of absolute rubbish here" and maybe I am 🤣but here's the point, who's got the divine power and authority here to declare and force us all to accept once and for all who has got this right? Is it me? Definitely not. Is it yourself? I don't think so. Is it Cliffe? Again, I don't think so.
At the end of the day, the only being that would have the divine power and authority to declare who is getting it right and who is getting it wrong and make it the last word on the matter would be God, presuming he exists but to date, God has maintained radio silence as far as intervening in discussions about him goes. I mean, it's not like God will pop up, bang his divine fist on the table like a worldly father/parent might and say "right children, shut up, all of you, I am now going to tell you what the correct way is, no more arguments....end of".
That would be great, wouldn't it? Imagine all of these arguments between us as human beings/thinking creatures finally settled once and for all with a declaration sealed by a supreme power and authority from an infinitely higher being. Who's gonna argue with an infinitely supreme? I know I wouldn't. Until then, though, I'm afraid these kinds of arguments will just go on and you can say till you're blue in the face "Cliffe is wrong" but until a higher-than-human authority pops up and confirms that, it means nothing I'm afraid, much as I personally might respect you and your view.
You could even say I'm wrong too, again, nothing stopping you but until God pops up and says to me "hey, John, you're completely wrong", there would be nothing to stop me from saying back to you "well, that's just your opinion buddy, I say I'm right, what are ya gonna do about it?". Not that I ever would say that to anyone, it's not my style, I'm a very easygoing sort of person, I accept my compass could be way off but I'm just saying there would be nothing to stop me if I was that way inclined. Thanks.
u r talkin out both sides of your mouth Cliffe
Either its eternal life or its not
If its automatic that u hava changed life
y does the bible admonish ppl not to b murderers, thieves etc
Did Solomon repent from bldg idols
Did the guy in 1 Cor 5 show a changed life
DUH
Easy...bc eye witness testimony is reliable...we would believe you the same way we would believe you if you just came back from the woods huffing and puffing and all shaken up and you say you almost got attacked by a bear. The ignorant thing to do would be to not believe that person and disregard what they're saying as false bc you were not there. You'd be the fool in that scenario, just like the people who dont believe Paul's eye witness testimony are fools, its naivete.
So do you believe all the people who say that they saw UFOs, bigfoot or the loch ness monster?
it's one thing to almost get attacked by a bear, that is highly feasible, but if someone tells me a man changed water into wine, I'd want more substantial evidence ,same as all the other miracle claims.
@@Theo_Skeptomai I'm guessing you're not directing that question at me Theo, .. or, if you are, what was Liberty prime's question?, I'll give it my best shot.
@@Theo_Skeptomai yea, theres no question from that person on my comments either so idk.
@@bonnie43uk understandable...how about if 30 people came to you, all separately, all claiming they saw this bear, all were trust worthy, all story's align perfectly, I'd say the evidence would be clear. We don't always get to see proof, sometimes there has to be trust and self analization towards to situation to make a decision. Saying I won't believe all 30 people that they saw the bear just bc "I didn't see the bear" is kind of an ignorant stance towards such situation.