It's not that they couldn't get the rights, as CW is Warners Brothers, but more that Warner Brothers wanted to use Batman more for films (Batman Begins became that film). They wanted to do a version of Batman on TV since Smallville season 1.
Batman and Superman have always been characters that at least in recent years for the most part I have been kept on lock because those characters are their brand like Batman is the face of DC He's probably the first character you think of when you think of DC comics which is why he's pretty much always been off limits in TV other than the 66 Adam West show they've had loopholes where they've used Bruce Wayne but they can never show him as Batman That's why on Titans they only show him as Bruce and then if he's Batman it's just silhouette You don't actually see him in the suit same with batwoman the only ever saw Bruce in silhouette or as Bruce with the whole Tommy Elliott stuff
@@fightcinema3917 , the original idea for the Batman show was young Bruce traveling around learning to become Batman. So, they sort of used some of those ideas when they made Gotham.
I thought it was pretty well known since CW wasnt allowed to show Batman on screen they turned the Green Arrow into a batman-esque character. Great video nontheless
Vertigo didn't make them see their fears till season 3. Before that it was just put then in extreme pain since vertigo in comics induced....well.....vertigo but I think he had powers. In the show he used a drug
I always assumed this was common knowledge. It was also very public that DC wouldn't let CW use Batman because they were using him for the big screen so CW made an Arrow show instead and completely changed his origin and character to make him more like Bruce. Oliver was always meant to be the stand-in for Bruce in the Arrowverse. Congrats on 10k, btw. Don't sell yourself short. It may not be the biggest thing possible, but it's still a big deal.
@ektran4205 Technically yes, technically no. It's easy to blame WB since they own DC and they are mostly to blame since they were using him in films, but the rights to the character and licensing belong to DC and not its parent company. WB owns the rights via proxy. Same as how Lucasfilm owns the rights to Star Wars and not Disney. The big difference is that rights related issues and stuff have to go through DC specifically. This is because regardless of the situation, if WB sold DC tomorrow, Batman's rights would go with DC because DC owns the rights, not them. Therefore, ultimately it was DC that said no, not WB. However, I say that's technically correct because it was WB that made DC say no. So it's still fair to blame WB. Sorry for my pedantic rant there, most of which was wholly redundant.
Arrow really paved the way for superhero TV shows though, it walked so shows Like Daredevil, The Punisher and more could run, it really proved the viability of the concept, so it deserves it's praise just for it's legacy. Season's 1-3 of Arrow were really, really good but the show fell off so hard, mainly because it couldn't escape from it's CW soap opera origins, so it had a certain campiness and tackiness that just seemed to further spread like an infection the longer the show went on. The writers also seemed to not have expected the show to last too long either because it becomes obvious after a while that they ran out of material for certain characters, but they had to be kept around because they were popular with the fan base (Felicity) overall, the first few seasons are a great origin for Green Arrow, and a great introduction to the character, however the shows refusal and inability to break away from Batman and to bring Oliver's personality more in line with his comic book counterpart probably did more harm than good. Also the shows refusal to call him Green Arrow until like the 4th or 5th season was just dumb, as you're actively concealing your products naming and branding from potential customers in the audience who might want to purchase a book, or learn more about the character
Oliver even prepared for evil speedsters, In the Flash season 1 Episode 22. He shoots Reverse Flash, with an Arrow that temporarily negates a speedster speed using Ray Palmer's nanites.
@@SerenaHParker I always wondered that since he had no way to travel the multiverse other than Barry. Maybe kripton was destroyed in his universe but no kriptonians landed on earth
I really can't believe that there are people that didn't see this parallel since the first episode. It became even more apparent if you know the comics of both characters. The villains you mentioned as similar villains to Batman in the beginning were all Batman villains, so more than similar. Ras Al Ghul making him his heir, and having a link to his daughter? 100% straight copied from Batman. Even his Outsiders team are formed originally by Batman in the comics. Almost none of the comics personality or what defines Green Arrow as a separate character was used on the show. Another piece of history between the two characters is that Green Arrow was originally developed because of the popularity of Batman. He became the more lighthearted version of him, but still was made in response to how people were into the masked vigilante with cool gadgets type thing. He even had an Arrow Cave.
Arrow does kind of have a Joker. They took Prometheus another villan who is also both a justice league villan and a batman villan. Someone who took the look of batman except made it look more medieval armor. So of course they made Prometheus look more like a twisted season 1 arrow. But his entire motivation is to try and break Oliver the same way that Joker tries to break Batman. Confronting him with his past not unlike what Joker did in Endgame. With his final goal being that he wants Oliver to kill him. For the most part he works but the writers made a mistake. Oliver goes back and forth between killing and not killing. Which in itself isn't a problem. But there are 3 times when Oliver in any normal circumstance could have ended it without Chase holding all the cards like he does in the finale. With the bomb or when he had kidnapped Susan. Either way when Susan was kidnapped if he killed Chase. It would take Barry just a few minutes to search the entire city to find her. So it felt a bit hollow when you consider that Oliver went back to killing at the start of season 5. Thought he killed Chase during their first fight got tricked. And then for reasons never tries to do it again even when his mask is off and he doesn't have any weapons.
To be fair, While prometheus did fight batman, he also fought the entire justice league. On top of that Oliver killed Prometheus when Prometheus gravely injured Roy Harper. Something bruce would never have the stones to do
@@darkservantofheaven That is true, I had forgotten that he straight up killed him. I don't think the problem is Bruce not having the stones to do it. It is more like if he does he is not able to stop himself. Every version of Bruce in the multiverse who starts winds up eliminating every supervillan and every superhero who stands in his way once he gets the taste for it. Unlike Daredevil who doesn't kill (even though he has done it) because he believes he winds up in hell. Bruce feels the darkness pulling at him. It is one of the reasons why he was never allowed to learn magic. A Batman magic user would make even Constantine look like a pure do-gooder. He is constantly keeping himself in check. In a real life scenario I would say Batman no killing Joker makes no sense. If we don't consider that we are talking about a man who when he got the power of a 5 dimensional god ATE China as a joke. And just look at his normal criminal acts. hH is responsible for having filled entire graveyards long before. The only reason he is not dead is because he prints money because of Batman didn't do it, you would have family members of his victims or cops that would have said enough is enough and ended him. But take Zack Snyder who wanted his Batman to kill. There could have been a compelling idea where after Joker killed Robin. Bruce lost it and decided to no longer hold back and if people are in front of his bullets when he fires using a turrent on the Bat-mobile or smahes through their car making it explode. That is their problem. And you could have made his fight against Superman ended in a proper way where instead of saying Martha. Scene: Bruce cuts Clarks face, he says "any last words alien?" - Clark with Bruce foot on his throat barley able to speak "Please..." - Bruce raises the spear thinking that this alien who brought a war to his planet is just going to plead for his life. But Clark desperately continues to get the words out you can hear him gurgling "Lex... has... my mom... please save her after I'm dead." If the scene had played out that way. Now the internal conflict you see Bruce struggle with in that scene make more sense. He holds the spear just high enough to be to get ready to stab but close enough. To prevent Clark for being able to heal and gain his strength back. Making it more difficult for Clark to speak, and as Bruce starts to ask accuse him of lying. That is when you have Lois running in to the scene shielding her body in front of Clarks and tells him it is all true while she holds her phone up. That has all the evidence of Lex's involvement. A recording from the roof where he admits he kidnapped Lois so that he could get Superman to kill Batman. Having the phone still be recording for Clarks and Lois' conversation where Clark says he has to try and get Batman to see reason and not as his enemy. Maybe you don't need all of it and just the evidence and Lex pushing Lois of the roof to get Superman to come would be enough. But now you would have a moment where Batman realizes that all the anger he has been carrying since Robin died the extremes he has gone to has made him lost his way. And that he was about to become just like Joe Chill because he had let Lex trick him. This would also not be a popular decision but it would need to be done. There could be no Joker in this universe. He should have died in the flashback during the Suicide Squad movie. It does not make sense that Batman is willing to kill. But he saves Harley's life when they crash the car into the river and not only that she tries to stab him under water and he still goes through saving her. We are told she was responsible helping Joker kill Robin. When he was on top of the car the only reason for him not placing a bomb on the lambo and jump off in the chase. Would be if Bruce wanted to make both of their deaths be slow and painful like he said he was going to do in the final knightmare sequence in Justice League.
It changed and mellowed a bit by later seasons, but yes. The show was post TDK and TDKR, where Nolan made Batman into not possible, but plausible character by grounding him. The ending of season one was a prelude to a No man's land arc. It was an open secret. It worked for me. I liked the approach.
My opinion on the series overall: Arrow Seasons 1-3: The show at its peak. Yes, I am counting season 3, despite being divisive. Arrow Season 4: The show started to falter here. Also, it was the Felicity season. Hated how Laurel got killed off. Arrow Season 5: Good in the first chunk, but mid to just flat out bad. Arrow Season 6: In my opinion, the show's ABSOLUTE worst season. Arrow Season 7: Better than Season 6, but it was dull. I noticed there wasn't much "Green Arrow" anymore. Season started with Oliver in prison, ends with what would be the end as we knew it. Arrow Season 8: The final season. 10 episodes well spent, wrapped up all loose ends, plot threads, etc.
Woah woah woah. I can’t agree with Season 5 and Season 6, due to Season 5 being strong all through the whole season and Season 6 being an underrated season due to it’s amazing plot lines it showcased
Gonna be honest, a disagree a lot with your takes. Season 1, 2, and 5 are fantastic. 3 and especially 4 are atrocious. 6 is solid and 7 is great in the first half but falters in the second. 8 is a great conclusion and recap of the show, despite it being a pretty far departure from what the show normally is
They use a lot of Batman villains and Batman elements. You already mentioned Deathstroke, Ra's al ghul and Deadshot but they also used Prometheus who's a Batman villain in the comics although they did change him a lot for the show. They also used Firefly in season 1 and Huntress who has always been more of a Batman centric character in the comics also in season 1. They also had him fight Bronze Tiger who's another character Batman has fought before such as in Arkham Origins Blackgate. The character of Felicity becomes more and more similar to Oracle in the later seasons, they even reference Oracle themselves a few times. Not only Ra's al ghul both his daughters Talia and Nyssa show up quite frequently on arrow. Talia and to some extent Nyssa are important Batman characters in the comics.
I agree one hundred percent because if you really think about it, cw’s green arrow was basically there version of Batman literally from the beginning to its end in my opinion.
Not really though Bruce Wayne was not stuck on a island for 5 years Bruce parent died at a young age he was a young billionaire who had the money to pay for the best therapy in the world he did not do that instead he went to go train with some mystical people as for Oliver queen he was lost on a sea in a island he had no choice he had to survive darkness chose him he had no one that really knew him to pull him out 5 years of hell,pain,torture & sadness will take a toll on him like Bruce Wayne had his Butler to help him deal with his trauma he faced after his parents death his butler could have sent him to the best therapist in the world but they did not
@kobaye2111 he went from killer to non killer off and on and it felt good and made sense. He is a great detective it's showen very often. And last he made all his own stuff in year 1 and park of year 2. After year 2 most stuff was made by more high tech people like Cisco/ legends of tommorow people.
Arrow was heavily inspired early on by the Nolan Batman films, both pieces of media tried to take superheroes and ground them in reality and you can even see where the writers took some plot from the Nolan Trilogy. One of the critiques of Arrow has always been that Oliver Queen was too much like Batman in the show, both in characterization and the villains he fights, Season 3 is the easiest to see it in as they basically take the Bruce's relationship with Ra's and gives it to Oliver. While Oliver in the comics may have started out as a mix of Robin Hood and Batman, straight up having and Arrowcar and Arrowcave, the character was changed in the 70s to make him his own thing by putting him on the far left politically and putting him in constant conflict with the ideologies of other heroes, ideologies he deemed to be fascist in nature. There's a lot of really interesting things to Oliver that could've been used to separate him from Bruce. He's an idealist blind to how his actions are negatively effecting those around him. Him running off with Hal left Roy feeling abandoned and turning to drugs to cope, he repeatedly abandoned his biological son Connor Hawke, he's a cheater, a womanizer, and seems to have a dislike for a large chunk of humanity. All of these negative traits about him are what makes him interesting, especially in Kevin Smith's run on the series as we get to see Oliver fully realize his failings and work towards fixing them. He makes sure not to make the same mistakes he made with Roy with Mia Dearden, he becomes closer with his Connor, he fixes his relationship with Black Canary, and he comes out the other side a better hero for it. He's still an idealist with bold dreams, a bit of narcissism, and still pretty aggressive in his political beliefs but he had grown.
In the new dcu, if we don't see grant Gustin in some capacity of flash. I think Grant with blonde hair and a goatee would be the perfect old-school green arrow. More comedic, doesn't see feelings as a weakness, be able to anger his opponents and make them inaccurate due to his jokester attitude.
Making GA dark like Batman is the greatest thing that’s ever happened to this character. Frankly, GA is much more of a badass now and is a perfect fit for this show.
I've been thinking of going back and restarting frome ep1 with arrow and eventually flash, inspite of the quality of the later seasons, these shows are just easy and enjoyable watching now
The early seasons are still good and crisis on earth X is still the best justice league movie that came out in 2016. Season 5 of arrow was a correction but then they missed the boat. Trying to maks Diaz into Bane but they were never able to write him to be a credible threat. He won because the script said so or because he cheated. This was Oliver at his peak. And he had taken out Slade and multiple super villans since. I don't buy him having trouble with a guy who was a tough street kid for over a year. They should have used the long bow hunters properly and one of them could have been their Bane. That I would have an easier time to buy. And then there was the whole story with his secret sister. It seemed like they wanted the circle to be like the owls but they wasted so much time on things that didn't matter that they never got to be a threat either.
Oh and them never using Onomatopoeia. Suggesting that Stanley was their version by having collected a few masks. Come one of the most famous green arrow characters ended up becoming one of the big bads in superman and lois. How does that make sense?
My understanding is things changed not long after production and the popularity of superheroes continually rising left them with characters they couldn't use, s1 was so long ago, simpler times, likely for overall WB/dceu license reasons, but imagine filming and suddenly someone says "you can't use deadshot anymore" and things of that nature, but all in all the nostalgia hits hard, they did their best with that while competing and outshining their big budget counterparts who hamstrung them in the first place, and there are still great character moments throughout, this was one of the greatest eobard thawnes we'd ever seen after all, again far from perfect but it has its moments. Still good comfort watching ⚡️🎯 👀
I’m glad you aren’t spoiling anything while making this vid I just started watching the arrow a few months ago and I’m on Prometheus rn and I watched the flash 10 years ago
5:15 he was only stranded on The Island for I think a year during the first two seasons maybe a year and a half and then he was in Hong Kong for a period of time along with Russia before Russia he went back to land you were he found that totem thing and met Constantine and got the tattoo and then it was Russia and then right after Russia he went back to the island for the rest of his time until he was picked up so he did go to various points around the world learning various forms of fighting and weapons
I can’t believe this wasn’t mentioned, The count was the joker, and the other person using fear vertigo was the scarecrow. They tried to make him Batman
Hear me out: When they brought The Red Death into the CW, it should’ve been a variant of Oliver Queen. The flash has no connection to the bat family in the CW universe, but CW’s Flash was good friends with green arrow so imagine how shocking it would have been if the man in the red suit was a version of Ollie. Even if you want to keep him as a bat-variant, you could just have it that that universe Oliver Queen was Batman he adopted/stole the mantle of Batman from Bruce Wayne. Or you could go the full mile and just redesigned the red death to resemble Green Arrow. Either way, I think they would’ve been a bigger emotional connection if it was Ali rather than a version of the new Batwoman from the show, no one watches
When Season 3 Flash happened I honestly thought they were gonna have Oliver die on that boat & his father lived to become the Green Arrow. Similar to how in the Flashpoint comic, Bruce dies & Thomas survives to become that universe's Batman. Straight up parallel that the writers missed entirely.
Yall might hate me for saying this but I wish Ollie first kid was in S3 Similary with William where Ollie doesn’t know about him but what I would change is the mother being Nisa Al Ghul which would pretty much adapt Damian from Batman
Very good video but I have something to add. In season 6 in one episode oliver was under some kind of drug and was hallucinating and talking to dead adrian i think in this moment it shows that prometheus became his joker
Got back into it and I realized that the show perfectly sets up the Flash show. Introduced Barry Allen and Cisco and Caitlin before Barry even got put into acoma
Warner didn't let the CW adapt the Green Arrow mythology because they are saving it for the movies, the truth is that Green Arrow is very popular. Regarding the villains, Constantine Drakon, a Greek mercenary from the comics, appeared in the pilot episode in a miserable way as the leader of Adam Hunt's security. In the case of Deadshot, Green Arrow has a sniper villain named Slingshot. Merlyn, in fact, in the comics has a connection with the League of Assassins. He is a mercenary, but in the CW show he was just a coward afraid of Ra's Al Ghul and a father who worried about Thea. The villains from the Green Arrow mythology that were most correctly adapted to the series were Cupid, China Wei and Komodo. In the comics, Komodo is not a mercenary, but since Drakon and Merlyn were out of character and Slingshot did not appear, in my opinion they did well to write him as a hitman. I don't think there was a need for Talia to train Oliver in Russia. It could have been another woman, a character created for the series, just like Chloe was for Smallville. Yao Fei, Shado and Taiana were adapted well, but I don't know if Fyers is part of Green Arrow's gallery of villains.
I mean, he fought the huntress. Who was a Batman ally. But also fought against Cyrus Gold aka Solomon Grundy who is a Batman villain. But if we are going to drive the comparisons further. He works alongside Katana and Talia Al Ghul. But sure, one thing I will mention is that some of his villains were amalgams of Batman villains. Count vertigo felt more like Scarecrow and the Joker combined. Just tossing that out there.
I could be mistaken but I am pretty sure that CW couldn't obtain the rights to use Batman, Wonder Woman or Aquaman for Arrowverse so they did something big with Green Arrow, Supergirl and Constantine and got them more exposure like none of those characters have ever had on a Mainstream level.. in spit of the Arrowverse turning to shit due to the pandemic and running out of funds... over all these shows really were a brilliant piece of writing.. perfect character development and world building
Just found your channel, great content bro. I know this would be more of a gaming discussion but I just wanted to throw it out there. Can Lara Croft survive Resident Evil
Not only did they make this GA just like Batman, but no one is talking ab how they turned star city into Gotham basically with all that criminal activity
A few points - first - I can't believe it took you this long to realize that arrow is the CW batman - they've been doing that since Smallville. Second - Green Arrow has started off as a Batman knock off... Third - Arrow kills - which you know is antithetical to the Batman's no killing rule... (in most versions).
I was actually really upset when they made "batman" Canon on earth 1 within the arrowverse. the way they handled Oliver finding out he wasn't the "original vigilante" just made me mad because it felt like they were undoing years of personal character growth by making him petty and insecure
I mean he was Batman without the legendary virtually unparalleled scientific and deductive knowledge/prowess. Dude is basically a supercomputer processor Encyclopedia of Knowledge in the flesh. So no he's similar but not close.
This version is so hard to watch cuz it's not accurate, and people who grow to enjoy thus character and choose to read will then be turned off by the complete difference. I'd rather just have Batman, Robin, Oracle, and Batgirl. Also Arrow not the only one CW did this to Flash is essentially Superman til Supergirl was nade to be female Clark/Superman.
Yeah, he basically is Batman.I'm a little disappointed.Because our overqueen is a great character.And they basically just copy Batman thinking.Oliver klin was in cool.But I didn't know that The CW arrow was pretty cool.He's got the Bruce Wayne thing he's got the arrows.The stealth is great😊
oliver did not spend 5 year on island. he was 1st 2 year spend on island than 3rd year he was in hong kong. 4th year he return to the island then 5th year he was in russia.
Green Arrow’s origin is After being shipwrecked on a desert island, wealthy playboy Oliver Queen makes himself a bow and arrows and trains himself to become an expert with them, but jokes a lot he is not dark and serious he is cocky and arrogant a merk with a mouth Batman is dark and serious he don’t joke a lot and that goes for a lot of different versions of Batman but green arrow was never like that but in the CW, he is a serious dark vigilante who puts on a fake persona as Oliver Queen and Bruce Wayne is a fake persona that Batman uses, and he way Oliver Queen acts is the Green Arrow acts in the comics and the reason I watch Arrow is because there is no good Batman show 😂 and it’s a good Batman show
The closest thing they had to Batman was Gotham. It wasn't too bad but, lost its way when they tried to fast track Bruce's age and experiences to make him seem like he could be the Batman one day. Batwoman sucked monkey toes. I wanted to like Batwoman. They made her look so cool in the Crisis crossover but, it flopped. Poorly written story and it just didn't make sense.
the woman is part of if right now it's to much females side and support characters when a female is now a hero or villain its makes it alot more fresh and interesting when everyone is females its boring but yes a big part of it is writing
Green arrow was trash. They completely bit everything off of Batman and never stuck to the source material of who are the really was in the comics. Is CW was going to do this they should just went ahead and made a Batman series, but not this crap. If the CW's going to introduce a character from the comics stick with the true source material that supports it. Arthur was never a brooder, that's some Batman shit
maybe with after supergilr not for everyone but if sooner alternate stuff maybe withjustice elageu soone rif not then still all okay mewnahwile with after supergirl with green arrow an dthen jutsic eleague on 2027 green arrow then 2028 menawhei lwith jsuyte ie league drak characters an dalso suicicde cahracters with zatana an dform james gunn and oethr coolnees too sicicde squad mayeb if not tehn just wating with batman white eyes suit even tho lookimng toward sif im menat to with matt reeves batman na dnolans btaman and coolness crew even tho im weird mybad an d the 7 would be cool to be in the justice lewague took me a while but was aquaman marytain manhunter anmd speedster and green lantern with along the trinity
Something I didn’t think about until just now. The same crowd that always gives the easy out of “you just don’t like them because they’re women!” Are the same crowd that think every single man is a grapist. 😂 if we’re all worse than the bear, then it makes zero sense for us to not like female characters.
Fun fact they wanted to make a batman show but couldn't get the rights so they made arrow, that's why it's so much like batman
It's not that they couldn't get the rights, as CW is Warners Brothers, but more that Warner Brothers wanted to use Batman more for films (Batman Begins became that film). They wanted to do a version of Batman on TV since Smallville season 1.
Batman and Superman have always been characters that at least in recent years for the most part I have been kept on lock because those characters are their brand like Batman is the face of DC He's probably the first character you think of when you think of DC comics which is why he's pretty much always been off limits in TV other than the 66 Adam West show they've had loopholes where they've used Bruce Wayne but they can never show him as Batman That's why on Titans they only show him as Bruce and then if he's Batman it's just silhouette You don't actually see him in the suit same with batwoman the only ever saw Bruce in silhouette or as Bruce with the whole Tommy Elliott stuff
@@godconvoy tbf gotham is the cloest we are getting to a Batman tv show
@@fightcinema3917 , the original idea for the Batman show was young Bruce traveling around learning to become Batman. So, they sort of used some of those ideas when they made Gotham.
Fun fact they did not try to make Batman tv show, Greg berlanti confirmed it, it was always going to be green arrow
Honestly as a kid, I never liked Green Arrow. But this show made me LOVE Green Arrow. 🏹
Same
Not to mention, they even have Ra's Al Ghul wanting Ollie to take his place much like how he wants the Detective to.
As soon as I saw the League of Shadows and Ra’s in s3 that was my first thought😂
Not to mention marrying his daughter
I thought it was pretty well known since CW wasnt allowed to show Batman on screen they turned the Green Arrow into a batman-esque character. Great video nontheless
Actually vertigo is like scarecrow make people see there fear
Vertigo didn't make them see their fears till season 3. Before that it was just put then in extreme pain since vertigo in comics induced....well.....vertigo but I think he had powers. In the show he used a drug
I always assumed this was common knowledge. It was also very public that DC wouldn't let CW use Batman because they were using him for the big screen so CW made an Arrow show instead and completely changed his origin and character to make him more like Bruce.
Oliver was always meant to be the stand-in for Bruce in the Arrowverse.
Congrats on 10k, btw. Don't sell yourself short. It may not be the biggest thing possible, but it's still a big deal.
its wb not dc
@ektran4205 Technically yes, technically no.
It's easy to blame WB since they own DC and they are mostly to blame since they were using him in films, but the rights to the character and licensing belong to DC and not its parent company. WB owns the rights via proxy. Same as how Lucasfilm owns the rights to Star Wars and not Disney.
The big difference is that rights related issues and stuff have to go through DC specifically. This is because regardless of the situation, if WB sold DC tomorrow, Batman's rights would go with DC because DC owns the rights, not them.
Therefore, ultimately it was DC that said no, not WB. However, I say that's technically correct because it was WB that made DC say no.
So it's still fair to blame WB.
Sorry for my pedantic rant there, most of which was wholly redundant.
I also thought it was common knowledge, it was probably the biggest criticism of the show in online discourse for a long time
Arrow really paved the way for superhero TV shows though, it walked so shows Like Daredevil, The Punisher and more could run, it really proved the viability of the concept, so it deserves it's praise just for it's legacy. Season's 1-3 of Arrow were really, really good but the show fell off so hard, mainly because it couldn't escape from it's CW soap opera origins, so it had a certain campiness and tackiness that just seemed to further spread like an infection the longer the show went on.
The writers also seemed to not have expected the show to last too long either because it becomes obvious after a while that they ran out of material for certain characters, but they had to be kept around because they were popular with the fan base (Felicity) overall, the first few seasons are a great origin for Green Arrow, and a great introduction to the character, however the shows refusal and inability to break away from Batman and to bring Oliver's personality more in line with his comic book counterpart probably did more harm than good. Also the shows refusal to call him Green Arrow until like the 4th or 5th season was just dumb, as you're actively concealing your products naming and branding from potential customers in the audience who might want to purchase a book, or learn more about the character
im still obsessed with the cws arrow and always will be it is my favorite show ever been watching since season 2 was out
Oliver even prepared for evil speedsters, In the Flash season 1 Episode 22. He shoots Reverse Flash, with an Arrow that temporarily negates a speedster speed using Ray Palmer's nanites.
He also uses a kriptonite arrow in the crisis on earth X. A contingency he made for a rouge super girl
@@baileybond0047 that was a very cool moment. However part of me wonders how he got the Kryptonite.
@@SerenaHParker I always wondered that since he had no way to travel the multiverse other than Barry. Maybe kripton was destroyed in his universe but no kriptonians landed on earth
@@baileybond0047 Yeah potentially. Either way great scene
I really can't believe that there are people that didn't see this parallel since the first episode. It became even more apparent if you know the comics of both characters. The villains you mentioned as similar villains to Batman in the beginning were all Batman villains, so more than similar.
Ras Al Ghul making him his heir, and having a link to his daughter? 100% straight copied from Batman. Even his Outsiders team are formed originally by Batman in the comics.
Almost none of the comics personality or what defines Green Arrow as a separate character was used on the show.
Another piece of history between the two characters is that Green Arrow was originally developed because of the popularity of Batman. He became the more lighthearted version of him, but still was made in response to how people were into the masked vigilante with cool gadgets type thing. He even had an Arrow Cave.
I didn't see the similarities until season 2 when Ras made Oliver his heir.
Arrow does kind of have a Joker. They took Prometheus another villan who is also both a justice league villan and a batman villan. Someone who took the look of batman except made it look more medieval armor.
So of course they made Prometheus look more like a twisted season 1 arrow. But his entire motivation is to try and break Oliver the same way that Joker tries to break Batman. Confronting him with his past not unlike what Joker did in Endgame. With his final goal being that he wants Oliver to kill him.
For the most part he works but the writers made a mistake. Oliver goes back and forth between killing and not killing. Which in itself isn't a problem. But there are 3 times when Oliver in any normal circumstance could have ended it without Chase holding all the cards like he does in the finale. With the bomb or when he had kidnapped Susan. Either way when Susan was kidnapped if he killed Chase. It would take Barry just a few minutes to search the entire city to find her. So it felt a bit hollow when you consider that Oliver went back to killing at the start of season 5. Thought he killed Chase during their first fight got tricked. And then for reasons never tries to do it again even when his mask is off and he doesn't have any weapons.
To be fair, While prometheus did fight batman, he also fought the entire justice league. On top of that Oliver killed Prometheus when Prometheus gravely injured Roy Harper.
Something bruce would never have the stones to do
Prometheus is also a GA villain on the comics.
@@darkservantofheaven That is true, I had forgotten that he straight up killed him.
I don't think the problem is Bruce not having the stones to do it. It is more like if he does he is not able to stop himself.
Every version of Bruce in the multiverse who starts winds up eliminating every supervillan and every superhero who stands in his way once he gets the taste for it.
Unlike Daredevil who doesn't kill (even though he has done it) because he believes he winds up in hell. Bruce feels the darkness pulling at him. It is one of the reasons why he was never allowed to learn magic. A Batman magic user would make even Constantine look like a pure do-gooder. He is constantly keeping himself in check.
In a real life scenario I would say Batman no killing Joker makes no sense. If we don't consider that we are talking about a man who when he got the power of a 5 dimensional god ATE China as a joke. And just look at his normal criminal acts. hH is responsible for having filled entire graveyards long before. The only reason he is not dead is because he prints money because of Batman didn't do it, you would have family members of his victims or cops that would have said enough is enough and ended him.
But take Zack Snyder who wanted his Batman to kill. There could have been a compelling idea where after Joker killed Robin. Bruce lost it and decided to no longer hold back and if people are in front of his bullets when he fires using a turrent on the Bat-mobile or smahes through their car making it explode. That is their problem. And you could have made his fight against Superman ended in a proper way where instead of saying Martha.
Scene: Bruce cuts Clarks face, he says "any last words alien?"
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Clark with Bruce foot on his throat barley able to speak "Please..."
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Bruce raises the spear thinking that this alien who brought a war to his planet is just going to plead for his life. But Clark desperately continues to get the words out you can hear him gurgling "Lex... has... my mom... please save her after I'm dead."
If the scene had played out that way. Now the internal conflict you see Bruce struggle with in that scene make more sense. He holds the spear just high enough to be to get ready to stab but close enough. To prevent Clark for being able to heal and gain his strength back. Making it more difficult for Clark to speak, and as Bruce starts to ask accuse him of lying. That is when you have Lois running in to the scene shielding her body in front of Clarks and tells him it is all true while she holds her phone up. That has all the evidence of Lex's involvement. A recording from the roof where he admits he kidnapped Lois so that he could get Superman to kill Batman. Having the phone still be recording for Clarks and Lois' conversation where Clark says he has to try and get Batman to see reason and not as his enemy. Maybe you don't need all of it and just the evidence and Lex pushing Lois of the roof to get Superman to come would be enough. But now you would have a moment where Batman realizes that all the anger he has been carrying since Robin died the extremes he has gone to has made him lost his way. And that he was about to become just like Joe Chill because he had let Lex trick him.
This would also not be a popular decision but it would need to be done. There could be no Joker in this universe. He should have died in the flashback during the Suicide Squad movie. It does not make sense that Batman is willing to kill. But he saves Harley's life when they crash the car into the river and not only that she tries to stab him under water and he still goes through saving her. We are told she was responsible helping Joker kill Robin. When he was on top of the car the only reason for him not placing a bomb on the lambo and jump off in the chase. Would be if Bruce wanted to make both of their deaths be slow and painful like he said he was going to do in the final knightmare sequence in Justice League.
@@funkyreapercat5280 read my reply to darkservantofheaven.
@@dcworld4349 He stops killing after he kills that innocent cop Billy Malone. That's why he doesn't kill Prometheus.
Stephen Amell should play Bruce Wayne in the DCU; he basically played Batman in Arrow anyway.
He’s too old and I doubt he’d wanna get in that insane shape again
@@TheBlankEvolvedwdym? He’s always in shape. Not that I’m for him playing as Bruce Wayne/Batman lol
@@TheBlankEvolvedHe’s over a decade younger tha ben affleck lol he is not too old
It changed and mellowed a bit by later seasons, but yes. The show was post TDK and TDKR, where Nolan made Batman into not possible, but plausible character by grounding him. The ending of season one was a prelude to a No man's land arc. It was an open secret. It worked for me. I liked the approach.
My opinion on the series overall:
Arrow Seasons 1-3: The show at its peak. Yes, I am counting season 3, despite being divisive.
Arrow Season 4: The show started to falter here. Also, it was the Felicity season. Hated how Laurel got killed off.
Arrow Season 5: Good in the first chunk, but mid to just flat out bad.
Arrow Season 6: In my opinion, the show's ABSOLUTE worst season.
Arrow Season 7: Better than Season 6, but it was dull. I noticed there wasn't much "Green Arrow" anymore. Season started with Oliver in prison, ends with what would be the end as we knew it.
Arrow Season 8: The final season. 10 episodes well spent, wrapped up all loose ends, plot threads, etc.
Woah woah woah. I can’t agree with Season 5 and Season 6, due to Season 5 being strong all through the whole season and Season 6 being an underrated season due to it’s amazing plot lines it showcased
Gonna be honest, a disagree a lot with your takes. Season 1, 2, and 5 are fantastic. 3 and especially 4 are atrocious. 6 is solid and 7 is great in the first half but falters in the second. 8 is a great conclusion and recap of the show, despite it being a pretty far departure from what the show normally is
They use a lot of Batman villains and Batman elements. You already mentioned Deathstroke, Ra's al ghul and Deadshot but they also used Prometheus who's a Batman villain in the comics although they did change him a lot for the show. They also used Firefly in season 1 and Huntress who has always been more of a Batman centric character in the comics also in season 1. They also had him fight Bronze Tiger who's another character Batman has fought before such as in Arkham Origins Blackgate.
The character of Felicity becomes more and more similar to Oracle in the later seasons, they even reference Oracle themselves a few times.
Not only Ra's al ghul both his daughters Talia and Nyssa show up quite frequently on arrow. Talia and to some extent Nyssa are important Batman characters in the comics.
Deathstroke more of a green arrow villain the batman
@@clutchgeneshoops9275Deathstroke is a Titans villain not a Batman or Green Arrow villain.
@@FriendlyBatDoomHe is an over all DC comic villain so he is. Originally started with the Titans. Yes.
I agree one hundred percent because if you really think about it, cw’s green arrow was basically there version of Batman literally from the beginning to its end in my opinion.
Not really though Bruce Wayne was not stuck on a island for 5 years Bruce parent died at a young age he was a young billionaire who had the money to pay for the best therapy in the world he did not do that instead he went to go train with some mystical people as for Oliver queen he was lost on a sea in a island he had no choice he had to survive darkness chose him he had no one that really knew him to pull him out 5 years of hell,pain,torture & sadness will take a toll on him like Bruce Wayne had his Butler to help him deal with his trauma he faced after his parents death his butler could have sent him to the best therapist in the world but they did not
Honestly, Arrow is the best on screen Batman. I mean come on he's exactly how batman should be shown
Aside from Ollie killing
Except if you take away his legendary scientific, and deductive prowess.
If you make him kill, not a detective, not crafting his own stuff etc etc
@@kobaye2111 PREACH and a super genius polymathic scientist.
@kobaye2111 he went from killer to non killer off and on and it felt good and made sense. He is a great detective it's showen very often. And last he made all his own stuff in year 1 and park of year 2. After year 2 most stuff was made by more high tech people like Cisco/ legends of tommorow people.
Its so obvious since most of the villains in Gotham are generally in the series like Deathstroke, Ra's Al Ghul, Talia Al Ghul and Damien Darkh
Arrow was heavily inspired early on by the Nolan Batman films, both pieces of media tried to take superheroes and ground them in reality and you can even see where the writers took some plot from the Nolan Trilogy. One of the critiques of Arrow has always been that Oliver Queen was too much like Batman in the show, both in characterization and the villains he fights, Season 3 is the easiest to see it in as they basically take the Bruce's relationship with Ra's and gives it to Oliver. While Oliver in the comics may have started out as a mix of Robin Hood and Batman, straight up having and Arrowcar and Arrowcave, the character was changed in the 70s to make him his own thing by putting him on the far left politically and putting him in constant conflict with the ideologies of other heroes, ideologies he deemed to be fascist in nature.
There's a lot of really interesting things to Oliver that could've been used to separate him from Bruce. He's an idealist blind to how his actions are negatively effecting those around him. Him running off with Hal left Roy feeling abandoned and turning to drugs to cope, he repeatedly abandoned his biological son Connor Hawke, he's a cheater, a womanizer, and seems to have a dislike for a large chunk of humanity. All of these negative traits about him are what makes him interesting, especially in Kevin Smith's run on the series as we get to see Oliver fully realize his failings and work towards fixing them. He makes sure not to make the same mistakes he made with Roy with Mia Dearden, he becomes closer with his Connor, he fixes his relationship with Black Canary, and he comes out the other side a better hero for it. He's still an idealist with bold dreams, a bit of narcissism, and still pretty aggressive in his political beliefs but he had grown.
In the new dcu, if we don't see grant Gustin in some capacity of flash. I think Grant with blonde hair and a goatee would be the perfect old-school green arrow. More comedic, doesn't see feelings as a weakness, be able to anger his opponents and make them inaccurate due to his jokester attitude.
i agree 100% and another character you forgot about was Talia al Ghul who also trained Oliver
Yeah I don't know how I forgot that sorry about that
Also there is rash al ghoul
@@ComicCasualVideos no need to say sorry bro it was a great video still
Making GA dark like Batman is the greatest thing that’s ever happened to this character. Frankly, GA is much more of a badass now and is a perfect fit for this show.
This video is completely reading my mind I’ve been known this for the longest time about CW’s Green Arrow
I've been thinking of going back and restarting frome ep1 with arrow and eventually flash, inspite of the quality of the later seasons, these shows are just easy and enjoyable watching now
The early seasons are still good and crisis on earth X is still the best justice league movie that came out in 2016.
Season 5 of arrow was a correction but then they missed the boat. Trying to maks Diaz into Bane but they were never able to write him to be a credible threat. He won because the script said so or because he cheated. This was Oliver at his peak. And he had taken out Slade and multiple super villans since. I don't buy him having trouble with a guy who was a tough street kid for over a year. They should have used the long bow hunters properly and one of them could have been their Bane. That I would have an easier time to buy. And then there was the whole story with his secret sister. It seemed like they wanted the circle to be like the owls but they wasted so much time on things that didn't matter that they never got to be a threat either.
Oh and them never using Onomatopoeia. Suggesting that Stanley was their version by having collected a few masks.
Come one of the most famous green arrow characters ended up becoming one of the big bads in superman and lois. How does that make sense?
My understanding is things changed not long after production and the popularity of superheroes continually rising left them with characters they couldn't use, s1 was so long ago, simpler times, likely for overall WB/dceu license reasons, but imagine filming and suddenly someone says "you can't use deadshot anymore" and things of that nature, but all in all the nostalgia hits hard, they did their best with that while competing and outshining their big budget counterparts who hamstrung them in the first place, and there are still great character moments throughout, this was one of the greatest eobard thawnes we'd ever seen after all, again far from perfect but it has its moments. Still good comfort watching ⚡️🎯 👀
For real you didn't fail this topic .. Thanks man
I’m glad you aren’t spoiling anything while making this vid
I just started watching the arrow a few months ago and I’m on Prometheus rn and I watched the flash 10 years ago
5:15 he was only stranded on The Island for I think a year during the first two seasons maybe a year and a half and then he was in Hong Kong for a period of time along with Russia before Russia he went back to land you were he found that totem thing and met Constantine and got the tattoo and then it was Russia and then right after Russia he went back to the island for the rest of his time until he was picked up so he did go to various points around the world learning various forms of fighting and weapons
I'm glad CW couldn't get the rights to Batman, I honestly love this version of Green Arrow.
I can’t believe this wasn’t mentioned, The count was the joker, and the other person using fear vertigo was the scarecrow. They tried to make him Batman
I absolutely loved Season One of Green Arrow!
Hear me out:
When they brought The Red Death into the CW, it should’ve been a variant of Oliver Queen.
The flash has no connection to the bat family in the CW universe, but CW’s Flash was good friends with green arrow so imagine how shocking it would have been if the man in the red suit was a version of Ollie.
Even if you want to keep him as a bat-variant, you could just have it that that universe Oliver Queen was Batman he adopted/stole the mantle of Batman from Bruce Wayne. Or you could go the full mile and just redesigned the red death to resemble Green Arrow.
Either way, I think they would’ve been a bigger emotional connection if it was Ali rather than a version of the new Batwoman from the show, no one watches
Reading your comment reminded me how cool it would’ve been if they had gotten Kevin Conroy to play Red Death.
When Season 3 Flash happened I honestly thought they were gonna have Oliver die on that boat & his father lived to become the Green Arrow. Similar to how in the Flashpoint comic, Bruce dies & Thomas survives to become that universe's Batman. Straight up parallel that the writers missed entirely.
His Dad is the green arrow/arrow on Earth 2
Yall might hate me for saying this but I wish Ollie first kid was in S3 Similary with William where Ollie doesn’t know about him but what I would change is the mother being Nisa Al Ghul which would pretty much adapt Damian from Batman
Yeah when Arrow was more serious and like a Batman show the series was better.
Very good video but I have something to add. In season 6 in one episode oliver was under some kind of drug and was hallucinating and talking to dead adrian i think in this moment it shows that prometheus became his joker
Arrow also fought firefly in season 1 a Batman villain
Would like to see Green Arrow with the Robin Hood hat, sleeves costume & mustache & beard goatee
Agreed.
Been watching black lightning recently it's actually not that bad.
Got back into it and I realized that the show perfectly sets up the Flash show. Introduced Barry Allen and Cisco and Caitlin before Barry even got put into acoma
It’s funny how convoluted Ollie’s time on the island season by season.
Warner didn't let the CW adapt the Green Arrow mythology because they are saving it for the movies, the truth is that Green Arrow is very popular. Regarding the villains, Constantine Drakon, a Greek mercenary from the comics, appeared in the pilot episode in a miserable way as the leader of Adam Hunt's security. In the case of Deadshot, Green Arrow has a sniper villain named Slingshot. Merlyn, in fact, in the comics has a connection with the League of Assassins. He is a mercenary, but in the CW show he was just a coward afraid of Ra's Al Ghul and a father who worried about Thea. The villains from the Green Arrow mythology that were most correctly adapted to the series were Cupid, China Wei and Komodo. In the comics, Komodo is not a mercenary, but since Drakon and Merlyn were out of character and Slingshot did not appear, in my opinion they did well to write him as a hitman. I don't think there was a need for Talia to train Oliver in Russia. It could have been another woman, a character created for the series, just like Chloe was for Smallville. Yao Fei, Shado and Taiana were adapted well, but I don't know if Fyers is part of Green Arrow's gallery of villains.
I love Arrow so much he’s my favorite hero from this show
I mean, he fought the huntress. Who was a Batman ally. But also fought against Cyrus Gold aka Solomon Grundy who is a Batman villain. But if we are going to drive the comparisons further. He works alongside Katana and Talia Al Ghul. But sure, one thing I will mention is that some of his villains were amalgams of Batman villains. Count vertigo felt more like Scarecrow and the Joker combined. Just tossing that out there.
Agreed, originally he was supposed to INSPIRE Bruce to fight crime.
I could be mistaken but I am pretty sure that CW couldn't obtain the rights to use Batman, Wonder Woman or Aquaman for Arrowverse so they did something big with Green Arrow, Supergirl and Constantine and got them more exposure like none of those characters have ever had on a Mainstream level.. in spit of the Arrowverse turning to shit due to the pandemic and running out of funds... over all these shows really were a brilliant piece of writing.. perfect character development and world building
I guess this makes The Flash the superman of the CW universe
The "Arrowcave" 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Just found your channel, great content bro. I know this would be more of a gaming discussion but I just wanted to throw it out there. Can Lara Croft survive Resident Evil
“batman’s a myth” -oliver queen
SUS 👀👀
They both have the same reasons as to why they fight mostly at night, only have fought during the day if it seriously called for it
I thought it was obvious, still, great video
It’s been clear since season one of Arrow that Green Arrow was the CW’s version of Batman.
I think you also missed that he is like batman minus being in Gotham and no killing rule.
I have legit been saying this for years lmao but you proved it better the cw wanted the rights to Batman but couldn’t afford it so they made it work.
Not only did they make this GA just like Batman, but no one is talking ab how they turned star city into Gotham basically with all that criminal activity
A few points - first - I can't believe it took you this long to realize that arrow is the CW batman - they've been doing that since Smallville.
Second - Green Arrow has started off as a Batman knock off...
Third - Arrow kills - which you know is antithetical to the Batman's no killing rule... (in most versions).
I was actually really upset when they made "batman" Canon on earth 1 within the arrowverse. the way they handled Oliver finding out he wasn't the "original vigilante" just made me mad because it felt like they were undoing years of personal character growth by making him petty and insecure
If in new dceu will be arrow it's perfect
back in 2012 this was common info icl
The second best cw show after the flash
Roy ahoykd have came back to be Like red hood villian vs arrow
I mean he was Batman without the legendary virtually unparalleled scientific and deductive knowledge/prowess. Dude is basically a supercomputer processor Encyclopedia of Knowledge in the flesh. So no he's similar but not close.
He has deductive knowledge but no detective skills
remember wb didn't want allow a live action batman on tv thats why we had gotham
Speaking of CW I know this is a strange casting but Tyler Hoechlin would be a great dcu Batman
arrow batman ,flash superman, supergirl wonderwoman
Green arrow is CW's Batman in other breaking news water wet!!!!!
He wasn’t entirely on the island
what about when arrow becomes the spectre?
He killed Batman with an arrow in the eye on here just like he did Deathstroke. On leanyue
Red death should have been Oliver + kid flash....
This version is so hard to watch cuz it's not accurate, and people who grow to enjoy thus character and choose to read will then be turned off by the complete difference. I'd rather just have Batman, Robin, Oracle, and Batgirl. Also Arrow not the only one CW did this to Flash is essentially Superman til Supergirl was nade to be female Clark/Superman.
Yeah, he basically is Batman.I'm a little disappointed.Because our overqueen is a great character.And they basically just copy Batman thinking.Oliver klin was in cool.But I didn't know that The CW arrow was pretty cool.He's got the Bruce Wayne thing he's got the arrows.The stealth is great😊
is this golden what ifs?
Me and my wife did a 2nd watch through of Arrow last year.. worth every moment 🤌🏾
Niagara emerald archer I mean
You JUST thought about this?
The only batman i like
If green arrow is Batman of the CW then the flash is the superman
I think cw made green arrow an actual good character and he would probably beat almost all of live action Batman characters 🤷🏽♂️
A little late there pal. We already knew all this from the first season of arrow
water is wet
Oliver trained in Russia and China during his time “on the island”
oliver did not spend 5 year on island. he was 1st 2 year spend on island than 3rd year he was in hong kong. 4th year he return to the island then 5th year he was in russia.
Green Arrow’s origin is After being shipwrecked on a desert island, wealthy playboy Oliver Queen makes himself a bow and arrows and trains himself to become an expert with them, but jokes a lot he is not dark and serious he is cocky and arrogant a merk with a mouth Batman is dark and serious he don’t joke a lot and that goes for a lot of different versions of Batman but green arrow was never like that but in the CW, he is a serious dark vigilante who puts on a fake persona as Oliver Queen and Bruce Wayne is a fake persona that Batman uses, and he way Oliver Queen acts is the Green Arrow acts in the comics and the reason I watch Arrow is because there is no good Batman show 😂 and it’s a good Batman show
The cw shows are way overhated except for season 6789 of the flash
No they were properly hated.
@@FriendlyBatDoom no the weren’t 😂
Deathstroke isn’t a Batman villain
The closest thing they had to Batman was Gotham. It wasn't too bad but, lost its way when they tried to fast track Bruce's age and experiences to make him seem like he could be the Batman one day.
Batwoman sucked monkey toes. I wanted to like Batwoman. They made her look so cool in the Crisis crossover but, it flopped. Poorly written story and it just didn't make sense.
We all know why😂
the woman is part of if right now it's to much females side and support characters
when a female is now a hero or villain its makes it alot more fresh and interesting
when everyone is females its boring but yes a big part of it is writing
Too bad they lost the plot with the last few seasons.
Green arrow was trash. They completely bit everything off of Batman and never stuck to the source material of who are the really was in the comics. Is CW was going to do this they should just went ahead and made a Batman series, but not this crap. If the CW's going to introduce a character from the comics stick with the true source material that supports it. Arthur was never a brooder, that's some Batman shit
maybe with after supergilr not for everyone but if sooner alternate stuff maybe withjustice elageu soone rif not then still all okay mewnahwile with after supergirl with green arrow an dthen jutsic eleague on 2027 green arrow then 2028 menawhei lwith jsuyte ie league drak characters an dalso suicicde cahracters with zatana an dform james gunn and oethr coolnees too sicicde squad mayeb if not tehn just wating with batman white eyes suit even tho lookimng toward sif im menat to with matt reeves batman na dnolans btaman and coolness crew even tho im weird mybad an d the 7 would be cool to be in the justice lewague took me a while but was aquaman marytain manhunter anmd speedster and green lantern with along the trinity
Batwoman sucked all the way through.
Thank god the Arrowverse never got their hands on Batman. They can keep Bootleg Batman.
Something I didn’t think about until just now. The same crowd that always gives the easy out of “you just don’t like them because they’re women!” Are the same crowd that think every single man is a grapist. 😂 if we’re all worse than the bear, then it makes zero sense for us to not like female characters.
Why do you even make videos?