Ford Mustang Mach-E Battery Exposed!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มิ.ย. 2024
- Sandy, Mark, and the Munro Live Team take the battery lid off to expose the batteries of the Mach-E
2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E E11: Battery Lid Removed
Model S Bumper Sticker: munrolive.com/support-%2F-sto...
If you like the content you're seeing, please consider visiting our website or subscribing to our Patreon group for exclusive content.
PATREON GROUP: / munrolive
MUNRO MERCH: teespring.com/stores/munro-li...
SUPPORT MUNRO: munrolive.com/support-%2F-shop
MUNRO LIVE WEBSITE: munrolive.com/
MUNRO LIVE TWITTER: / live_munro
MUNRO LIVE INSTAGRAM: / munrolive
MUNRO & ASSOCIATES MAIN WEBSITE: leandesign.com/
Outro:
Music from TH-cam Audio Library [Aka YAL]
Music provided by RFM: • Video
#ford #mustangmache #mache - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
The Mach-E battery is actually from LG Chem, not SKI.
Is it LFP or Nickel-manganese? And as always, thanks for great content!
What cells are used in this battery?
It's an engineering nightmare regardless of who makes the actual cells that go into it! I am sure SKI is rather glad their name isn't associated with this!
@@johnnemesh5459 , I wouldn't have asked what the cells are if it didn't matter to me. I am researching different cells to determine which ones to use in my own battery build. No sense in exposing the battery withput exposing the cell used.
@Sandy, have you seen the tour of Tesla Giga Berlin? If so we would like to hear your opinions and thoughts. Thanks.
I am no battery expert, but the information that I was looking for in a video like this would look like this:
This is a battery pack for a Mustang-Mach E AWD Standard range, 75.7 kWh nominal.
It is assembled of 10 modules. 2 smaller modules of 24 cells each, 8 larger modules of 30 cells each. 48+240=288 cells. Wired in a 96s3p configuration.
The smaller modules are 8s3p, the larger modules are 10s3p. In total: 2* (8s3p) + 8* (10s3p) = 96s3p. All the modules wired in series.
With cells of 72 Ah nominal each: 288 * 72 Ah * 3,65 V = 75.7 kWh nominal for battery pack capacity.
With your measurement of 387 V pack voltage, at the time of disassembly each cell had about 4,03 V.
So, your measurement confirms 8s and 10s for the modules. 8s * 4.03 = 32.2V for the smaller modules. 10s * 4,03 V = 40.3V for the larger ones.
Not shown in this video:
The extended range battery pack has the same cells, but in a different configuration:
The smaller modules are 28 cells, the larger modules are 32 cells. And two additional modules are stacked on top, under the rear seats.
The smaller modules are 7s4p, the larger modules are 8s4p. In total: 2* (7s4p) + 10* (8s4p) = 94s4p. All the modules wired in series.
(Notice the small difference in voltage due to 96s versus 94s! This diversity is unnecessary at best!)
With cells of 72 Ah nominal each: 376 * 72 Ah * 3,65 V = 98.8 kWh nominal for battery pack capacity.
As Ford presumably uses the same lower battery tray for both, there is some room around the sides in the standard range pack. No need to complain in so many comments.
The cells themselves are pouch cells, with two pouch cells in a cell group, then getting a plastic case to give them some substance and strength.
So in this standard range pack: 12 cell groups for the smaller modules, 15 cell groups for the larger ones.
For the extended range pack: 14 cell groups for the smaller modules, 16 cell groups for the larger ones.
The cell groups can easily be identified visually in the video and in the Jalopnik article.
2 cells in a cell group can either be 2p (most trivial) or 2s.
It is a no-brainer, that cell groups of 2 cells are somewhat awkward for modules wired in a 3p configuration.
Regarding use of the modules in solar applications or EV conversions from salvage packs: Ford has four module types in total for the Mustang Mach-E:
From Extended Range packs:
7s4p - 28 cells, 14 cell groups, 25.5 V nominal, 7.36 kWh.
8s4p - 32 cells, 16 cell groups, 29.2 V nominal, 8.41 kWh.
From Standard Range packs:
8s3p - 24 cells, 12 cell groups, 29.2 V nominal, 6.31 kWh.
10s3p - 30 cells, 15 cell groups, 36.5 V nominal, 7.88 kWh.
All modules with the same height (150 mm) and width, but with different length and voltage. This can be superb, as in a EV conversion with a certain space in a particular car or boat or bike or scooter, you can choose, mix and match. Likewise, when someone wants to build a pack with a certain count of cells wired in series, like to replace some former battery pack in a certain type of EV and recreate its voltage range. With either 7s and 8s or 8s and 10s available you can mix and match to some degree. Still you cannot mix 3p and 4p modules.
Or it can be unecessary as in solar energy storage systems you hvave to deal with 4 different module types (when sourcing Mach-E salvage battery packs) and their individual properties but would rather need one standard module, that is cheap and abundant.
All modules are under 60V DC, which makes shipping these modules a lot easier regarding UNECE safety regulations.
When you compared with Tesla battery modules: you missed the point, that you only considered the long modules from Model 3 and Model Y (22s and 26s for NCA or NMC). The smaller modules from Model S and Model X (all wired in a 6s configuration) and with equal size and nominal voltage are way easier to work with in non-Tesla applications.
Thank you. This was the information-dense analysis I was looking for, instead of several minutes quibbling over fasteners on a primarily electrical device.
While I appreciate a MechE's take on a physical design, I'm often left crestfallen on how many seem to have a huge aversion to learning any more than they absolutely have to when it comes to dealing with electricity.
GREAT POST! Thanks for the detailed Mach E battery summary. This is the type of info/ level of detail that I was looking for.
I have 2x of the “8S4P” modules
Do you know where to get the wiring harness for the modules???
@@DavidHalko All the wiring harnesses inside the battery pack are listed in the Ford parts catalog. Obviously, there is quite a bunch of them for the two battery pack configurations and number of components inside there multiplied with drivetrain variants (2WD, 4WD, GT). To get you started, the long *main harnesses* are (depending on Pack 1 or Pack 2):
FINIS 2574216, Ford parts nr LJ98-10B694
FINIS 2577664, Ford parts nr LJ98-10B694-AG
And then, there are a number of smaller sub-harnesses, which you likely need. They are just too many to list in a TH-cam comment. Go to the OEM Ford parts catalog (I use partslink24 for that), then Mach-e, then 1403 High-Voltage Systems, then traction battery pack 1 (the larger pack, as you got 4p modules) and find them yourself. There is also a phone number for ordering battery parts: 1-800-403-4844.
@@koeniglicher - this is exactly what I needed - thanks!
Id.4 lid area: 2.2 m^2
Mach-E lid area: 2.6 m^2
Don't bother reading out five significant digits, that's confusing in a video. Use three at most.
I couldn't agree more. Large numbers (as in lots of decimal places) just confuse.
See also: 2170 instead of 21700, and 4680 instead of 46800. Those darn 18650's will always eighteen six fifties to me though!
@Bladecraft 'Stuck in the mud' with inches and so on ? Got some problem ? Chip on your shoulder maybe ?
The USA is the ONLY 'developed' (??? maybe not so sure about the USA) country *NOT* using metric ! Any engineer will explain the huge advantages of metric like NO 'conversion factors' EVER. Hence fewer 'mistakes' like crashing that probe into Mars. LMAO
Nice to see the additional expertise and insight of other employees being integrated into the videos.
Thanks for watching!
did anyone else expect Mark Ellis to start with "Good news, everyone!" or do I watch too much Futurama?
Comment of the week
The way he kept touching the battery pack without wearing gloves was stressing me out.
Farnsworth's head with Frink's voice.
After 5 min….”well…it’s just a cover, really.” Classic Sandy….
How many engineers does it take to unscrew a battery cover..... There has to be a good punch line. Keep up the good stuff. A few more hours of video and I will have my Voyeurs in Engineering just from your channel.
3
2 to remove screws and Sandy to decide that the build was pathetic 😊
Only one - but you may have to wait a w h i l e
Those bolts for the cover are "triangular" thread-forming bolts. Just need the right size hole then you spin them down to torque and you're done. The amazing part is the threads will fit standard replacement fasteners and the thread forming bolts will fit in a standard tapped hole.
That is cool!
@@bob15479 what's so surprising? A tap is also a valid screw.
In fact it's basically a self tapping screw.
@@benholroyd5221 I bet you’re fun at parties
@@bob15479 you're the one who thinks bolts are cool :-P
I was more leaving the door open for someone to explain what's so novel, as both you and the OP seem to think it's novel, and it just seems big standard to me.
@@benholroyd5221 that’s because you already knew about it and we didn’t. The definition of novel is “new”.
I can’t say it enough that how happy and thankful I am because of being able to watch such quality and informative videos. Videos like this and from some other channels are sometimes more useful than university courses.
Thanks 🙏❤️
Wow, thank you!
I would bet some savvy professors are either showing these or assigning these for engineering design courses or automotive/SAE design as they are top notch.
Granted, I know if Sandy was planning to make educational videos he would probably put in more discussion of Deming and Lean and change the format a bit, but these show real world knowledge and use of engineering from an extremely experienced engineer.
@@MunroLive
Truth!
Sandy must have been losing his shit over all those fasteners!
I m loosing my shit seeng batteries hold tight under conpresion when i know poch batteries expand and contract from heat and when damaged they swollen, and this presure mygh damage them even more causing fire and blowing up just like Samsung note 7
Yes, 64 of the farkers!!
nothing beats Sandy and coffee in the morning!
Cars & coffee SANDY edition.
The good life of retirement enjoying a americano
Sandy talks and interrupts too much. This shit is unwatchable
I watch him at 1.5 speed, it helps
7:35 VW had a recall a few years back for e-Golf and GTE battery packs due to water leakage. The sealing was inadequate at the factory. The increased sealing on the ID.4 may be a response to that - that recall cost them an absolute fortune.
Considering the terrible ground clearance on the Mach-E , It would make me a little bit concerned.
Also he showed a video of a VW ID4.
Pack. My recollection is it was much neater and tidier inside with less wires running all over the place. I think he made a comment how he liked that all the wiring went up the central corridor of the pack.
Also I noticed on the Ford battery in the front area where those round white contactors are at. There is a small wire connector that's just hanging there unsupported at the connector. So there's a bunch of wires coming in it's a white connector that's kind of wide the other side of the connector and then wires continue and it's just hanging there. Seems to me that is a terrible risk for vibration failure. That thing's going to be jiggling around inside there until those wires fail from fatigue. Maybe there was a fastener that they already took off, but if not I would be concerned.
So the landfill-destined PLASTIC battery cover weighs over 60% more per square inch then the recyclable ALUMINUM one. Kind of shoots down the whole SABIC sales pitch.
No; that shoots down Ford engineers. The cover is over built to span those big gaps and I believe they mentioned it's 3mm thick.
Didn't they say that the plastic is a fire inhibitor while the Aluminum is NOT and is actually FLAMMABLE 🤔 in the SABIC video 🤔
@@billhanna2148 I don't think this plastic is necessarily fire- retardant
I believe Munro stated that the Ford pack is structural (thinner side rails), whereas the ID4 one is not. Thus the reason for more weight.
@@jamesengland7461 any evidence that you can share?
I love how Munro values experience of older staff. A software company tends to dispose experienced programmers.
Well, that's why he usually addresses us with a demeaning 'hello boys and girls' quote.
Once you go bald... younger men with bro beards and man buns are resentful of the old age look
Thanks so Sandy, I am learning about these cars in detail. If not for him, I don't think I would ever look in to it at all. Sandy, you are gift!!!
Thank you Sandy. It gives me a whole new perspective when I climb into my MMe to now know what is under my feet. Really enjoying your teardown videos of the MMe.
Nasty stammer you have there!
😉
These are LG Chem Batteries, SKI batteries are going into the F-150 Lightning.
Are they pouch cells, with the plastic spacers and compression bolts?
MME uses LG Chem batteries made in Poland. The SKI plant in Georgia is still under construction.
@@Tore_Lund yes, they are pouch cells and appear to be in plastic frames, like other LG Chem modules. The horizontal stack of cells in frames is bolted together, with the frames controlling the spacing.
@Munro Live: You stressed a lot, that you consider yourself (especially Mark) as battery experts (which I doubt a lot) and that these would be cells by SK Innovation. You took this particular Mustang Mach-E battery pack apart, then please provide some evidence for your claim. There are so many labels on the parts, and you never show any of them.
Another reason why the F-150 is going to suck in the battery department.
It's amazing that Sandy takes us on these insider tours all the time. We finally gain insight into what the auto makers are thinking when they make certain decisions and it is fantastic!
Sandy - Your engineering analysis is excellent!
Very interesting, thanks gents!
Only next time Sandy counts fasteners, PLEASE tally up using the accent of the Count from Sesame St! Ah ah ahhh...
we have the winning comment right there!
Thanks Uncle Sandy for the enlightening content... thoroughly enjoy your uploads
Was there a mid-pack contactor and fuse under the box that's assumed to be the BMS? I assume there is a contactor in that front block for the rear motor as well? The modules and central BMS will make this a popular battery pack for EV conversions and DIY EVs. Each block is a "safe" voltage and the cell-taps are easy to interface to 3rd party controllers.
what's more important, unlike Tesla packs, you don't need to hack the cover off with a spatula
Any idea what the harness connectors that go onto these batteries?
I may have 2x of these modules, trying to find a wiring harness connector, so I can add a BMS
Very happy to see Mark Ellis back on the videos. All the best! Thank you Sandy and all creating Munro Live for all the great videos.
I love this, Im working on the Mach e battery pack as an intern virtually not in-person and learning a lot to be better at my job through your match e teardown.
I'm Ford batteries chief designer, thanks for your content Sandy!
Great how you can actually remove the lids on these battery packs without destroying them. Good for the repair people!
I don't know if any of you do this, but I really recommend playing at 2x or 1.5x speed on these videos. You don't miss out on anything and it's much more seamless.
Not impressed with coolent situation at the moment. Looks like another OEM just slapped some pouch batteries in a chassis again.
Not true. They had to make it look pretty. They also had to add additional weight to give an appearance of safety. The massive amounts of wiring show lazy engineering and design. I think that is where are opinions align.
I guess the one positive is that if one of the module goes bad, you don't have to replace the entire battery.
@@thegamingsociety7880 , I believe this is the whole point of this setup. If you have an issue with your battery, the dealer will be able to replace the faulty module only instead of the entire pack, which is cheaper but also more environmentally friendly.
Right. I'm pretty sure it's for modular replacement if needed. There are instructions for module replacement in the service manual.
@@davidv9699 Yet the real reason is probably actually due to the limitations of the pouches and what they require for additional protection. All the extra wiring is just because they don't want to have to actually engineer/fabricate a good solution.
@@davidv9699 The primary consideration for modular designs is use across a wide variety of vehicle architectures. Even the fact that they have two sizes of module suggests this. This is also suggested by the coolant plumbing. Each set of parallel battery modules sits on cooling plate, and they are plumbed down the middle. Ford can use these components on any vehicle in their lineup. The narrow modules/coolant plates can be fit into a small city car with a narrow stance. That this stuff is repairable is a secondary benefit of it being a modular, lego brick design. There are disadvantages to such designs: weight, wasted space, added assembly time, many extra points of failure, etc. But those are balanced by the advantages in flexibility.
Man I'd love to do teardowns and analysis like you guys do. Trouble is I might have problems putting everything back together!
I’m surprised at how much empty space is inside of that case.
This is the small battery version I think, maybe the extended range is full ?
more likely to reuse the casing for higher capacity or other car models in the future
@@snikt228 Yes, that's it. The extended range pack has more of the same cells in each module (32 instead of 30 in the big modules and 28 instead of 24 in the small modules), so the extended range modules are longer and fill the space on the sides.
jalopnik.com/a-look-at-the-engineering-behind-the-2021-ford-mustang-1839911078
The ID4 battery pack seems to be layed out so much more elegantly with the central "spine"
Thank you Sandy for not using those derogatory management adjectives like rush job, or panic, or 11th hour engineering, or "we don't care how much it costs, just get it done".
Super interesting to see these professionals going about in analyzing what's in front of them :)
When the mustached idiot isn't interrupting
10:07 I love them touching those batteries with huge "do not touch anything" memo in background
I have a pair of modules in my trunk right now, carrying them around to find various components to mount & use them… they are quite safe, if you don’t short out the cells by accidentally drilling a hole through them! LOL!
Again .Loving it, made my Friday Sandy
Thank you very much for these videos. Very interesting!
sneaky Nobe in the back, hope to see more of that soon
Need NOBE with a PLAID drivetrain .......LOL.
Great batteries for salvage projects, and to put in the two Nobe you have sitting there.🤔perfect project for the batteries guy.
The more I see of the insides of these cars the more I am amazed that they ever get built.
Thank you!
It's funny how you can hear the electronical interference from the batteries whem the camera gets close
Not the batteries. EMC issue shouldn't be.
superconductor and transformers are leaking
I heard that too, at 10:51 there's artificial noise in the audio. I doubt it was interference from the batteries, but I don't have a better explanation to offer.
The battery can't cause interference. The BMS might be able to, if it is active, since the cover is off. There are no superconductors or transformers in the battery assembly.
More likely it’s someone’s phone.
@@13669wrights phone interfere is pulsed. This is picking static electricity of some insufficient component. Usually some transformers or capicitors. As the energy needs to get out of the battery pack.
Hi Sandy,
I'm curious if perhaps the Mach-E top cover (the side facing the passengers inside the vehicle) was perhaps designed to be allot more fire resistant, rather than the thin sheet of aluminum in the ID4 that would like just burn up quite easily in a thermal runaway event?
Watching your other brainstorming video about how best to design a battery pack, it appears to me (as a layman) that Ford might have incorporated some of those design aspects into this pack.
What are your thoughts and observations on this?
I thought the thin aluminum was a fire hazard.
An ocean going vessel from Europe, carrying electric cars, recently sank due to a fire onboard. I believe there were some VW’s onboard.
Batteries must be respected.
4:38 the depressions are called bead stamps , as the colleague said improve NVH , giving the plate a better dynamic response
Congrats on 200k! I think you are the leading Tesla/EV channel among my trusted sources. Amazing respect that is well deserved.
Thanks Nelson!
Great battery tear down!
Love the Nobe in the background!
Thanks
BMS balance wires longer vs more electronic pc boards all talking together. Keeping the BMS design simple makes my vote.
The thing that isn't stated is the cells are cooled at just the bottom VS the Volt has a jacket around the pack.
The pack can be almost totally recycled VS Tesla has large amounts of glue that just hits the land fill.
The cans are relays and they are common in the EV industry.
I would like to see this pack in a few years and see how they improved the design.
The cooling of the Volt cells was unusual, and was done because the power density in the plug-in hybrid application was high. In a battery-electric vehicle power density is lower and that sort of extreme cooling is unnecessary... which is why the Bolt and just about everything else uses just one module face (which is against the edges of the pouch cells) for heat transfer.
For Sandy's benefit, we metric guys don't use sq cm at all ! In fact the centimetre has been a 'deprecated unit' for some 40 years. Units that are 1,000 times apart (like the metre, millimetre and kilometre) are preferred in the SI system of units. (Systeme Internationale or International System as used by all nations except the the USA, Myanmar (formerly Burma) and 1 other small country IIRC). We use sq m unless it's really tiny. That Ford battery cover looked about 3-4 sq m to me at a glance.
Thanks again guys.
Grats on 200k subscribers!
Well done video. Thank you very much! Did you guys also check how the battery is structured from a power reserve point of view?
Meaning: The battery has less usable capacity than the nominal capacity. Do you know where the remaining capacity has gone to? I.e. do we have a brick protection (not usable), a usable reserve (below 0 range) and/or is there a reserve in the upper part of the batter or is 100% charge really 100% like at Tesla?
Thinking the same thing about those batteries, easy power wall! Sandy I am starting feel like a celebrity with Munro Live Decal on my bumper
Fantastic videos Sandy, keep up the good work, thanks.
Thank you! Will do!
What catches my eye is a ton of useless free space in that battery case
Collision.
Battery pack is to pack batteries. How come they don't mention all the air pockets in side? Such inefficiency. Check their gravitational and volumetric density at the pack level.
Exactly, I'm surprised they didn't mention that as well.
Oh look, it's serviceability!
Jean - 4680 is like an Olympic skater, tight on the inside, = better handling and tighter turns in a Tesla.
Looks serviceable to me
The space on the sides allows for the larger modules of the extended range battery. The Munro people may not realize that, or may just be leaving that discussion for a later video.
The battery cells for the Mach-E are supplied by LG, not SK. SK is going to supply the battery cells for the upcoming F-150 Lightning.
I was about to make the same comment.
I love the don’t throw this in a trash can sticker on the ID4. I’m imagining an accordion crushed can with the battery sitting awkwardly on top.
Your videos are really amazing and provide a lot of information about different technologies. It would be great if you could also mention the dimensions of different battery packs.
I agree the DIY solar person, just loves these simple modules for battery storage now if they where 48v system drop in and use. no need to break it up
The late Jack Rickard {search "EVTV"} was convinced that the best way to use a Tesla battery was to keep the whole thing together as a single high-power, high-voltage unit. He developed his own custom communication module to talk to the battery to turn it on, read back the individual cell voltages, etc all with a few CAN control cables that plugged into Tesla's connectors.
Why go to all the trouble of breaking it up into its modules when you'd likely then want to reassemble multiple modules into your design of battery without {probably} the expertise to understand how to be certain that your BMS unit[s] are still doing their job. Time will tell.
I just bought 2x of the 8s4p modules. Easy.
Poking your fingers in there around the orange electrical cables is a really bad idea, glad nothing happened. From what I can tell the BMS is the unit on one end with all the leads from each unit going to it. The other end has the contractors, probably DC/DC converter(s), possibly temperature measuring circuits, and various protective fuses. Looks very serviceable, and easy to swap modules in case of a bad cell compared to the latest Tesla designs. I do like the extra space inside for crash protection. One unit getting punctured should not spread fire into adjoining units. Not bad for a first effort.
Close - there's nothing in the end as large as the DC to DC converter - just contactors and fuses. The DC-to-DC is stacked on top of the charger, which in turn is mounted to the top of the structural crossmember above the front motor.
jalopnik.com/a-look-at-the-engineering-behind-the-2021-ford-mustang-1839911078
The DC-to-DC is not normally placed within a battery case, in part because that would require more wiring connections through the battery case.
It's quite fascinating to see the differing design solutions that Ford and VW have used. Faced with similar problems and objectives, they've used fairly different techniques that presumably play to their individual knowledge and experience of fabrication methods. This is good stuff ! I wouldn't say one was particularly superior to the other, merely a bit 'different' in interesting ways.
Munro coming with the hits, intro after intro.
Awesome video as always. What struck me the most about the battery pack is how much unused space was in there.
Same thoughts here ,I suppose that is the area where you are meant to smuggle contraband?
Or will they reconfigure for more cells?
maybe to keep the door open to other possible battery suppliers without needing to re-design the thing and the attechments to the rest of the car etc. Just guessing.
Looks like really good space, usual without the pack being convoluted. Very great design
There are different battery configurations, which fit in the same battery box. Some for different distances, some for 2x wheel drive, others for 4x wheel drives.
Add more batteries, more space consumed.
Can't wait for more details.
After watching the frunk and battery diagnostics, with all those hoses and wires Ford put some thought to make sure people to bring their cars for service down the road
The 64 Fasteners??? *THAT'S SCREWY*
Hi sandy , one of my fav clips was the one you distroyed the model y tempered glass window . In the same way can we get some destructive demo of one of the sk battery( 40v cell pack) modules either over charge or over disscharge without the BMS . Also some HQ flir footage side by side of the whole thing to show how heat is moving down and out in prismatic cells .
It has too many screws as the whole battery pack makes the IP protection for all inner components. The contactors (relays) on the rear is the battery disconnect unit in case of accident
I agree, coolant inside the battery pack isn’t the best thing to do.
It’s like fist gen Fiat 500 EV, every tube is a possible leak, and it’s more difficult to bleed.
Some makers put the coolant plates outside the battery.
Don’t know which is the most effective in terms of heat dissipation, but I know which is more probably to fail
Sandy, that set of 4 contactors is for three phase power coming from the llc battery charger. The fourth contactor is a bypass for the DC fast charging direct connect to the battery. Whole assembly is known as hvjb or high voltage junction box.
No three-phase power goes to any battery; a battery is DC.
The consumer really benefits in seeing these tear down so they can compare cars in reality rather than just looking at specs.
That extra long screwdriver is a bad choice. Lowers productivity in unfastening the exposed bolts
Plot twist: that's why Sandy hates screws. He only has that long screwdriver.
@ 😂
If the battery has a thermal event it can vaporize steel. I wonder which top cover can prevent burn through the best? The composite cover at least does not conduct electricity.
I definitely think Mark is correct with the NVH comment on the cover. When Sandy picked up the ID4 cover you could hear how badly it drummed, the plastic cover was much quieter.
@@oijhhytdirhrbru I'd argue that plastic top cover was more rigid because of the taller cross sectional area. You see how floppy the thin aluminum one was. I'd like to see Sandy give it a test.
@@oijhhytdirhrbru
Hmmmm
Inside knowledge...🤔
Doubtful.
You're guessing.
Grate, thanks for the video 👍
I thought that both the ID.4 and Mach E are using LG Chem batteries from Poland. It's confusing because the upcoming US built ID.4 will use SK Innovation from Georgia, and the upcoming F-150 Lightning will also use SK from the same factory.
ID in Europe uses LG Cells in the US will use SKI Cells. Don’t know about the Mach-e but it doesn’t make much sense to use cells from Poland when it is only build in the US.
Everything else I’ve read says Mach e uses LG. I think they’re confused at Munro.
@@e-redj JFTR: Ford Mustang Mach-E are built in Mexico, not in the USA.
Thank you
You're welcome
Great video! Teslas have had cylindrical relays/contactors for a while now.
Hey Sandy, does a thicker tray make for a better skid plate?
4860 anode in contact with cooling plate is nice design. I get the heebie jeebies seeing all those coolant connectors and potential future leaks.
Did you guys ever opened the white cylindrical contactors?
I thought I would repost this incase you guys didn't see it.
I had an idea for a video.
Tesla will install 10,000 superchargers this year. What is the cost difference between the tesla superchargers and the other charging stations with their screens and RFID readers. Maybe a teardown of the chargers with an eye on how to make them more reliable and lower cost. Thanks.
Buyers of vehicles don't care. Those that build chargers AND those that sell charging care.
They can easily hire Munro if they need (or find helpful) that information.
@@brandoYT When the charger fails then they care. But either way, it would still make good videos to tear them down and see if they can be better. Tesla has an advantage because they don't need RFID readers or screens so cost must be lower.
Gonna be hard to "buy" a supercharger :)
@@NTNLabs I was thinking more about the non tesla chargers, as they tend to have more problems. Comparing ABB vs Trinity etc.
Looking forward to seeing the video where you disassemble the battery packs. I am very curious to see if the total amount of power is the same as the one advertised!
I don't think Munro ever tests capacity - they only quote manufacturer's specs. What they measure are weights and linear dimensions, not anything electrical, because their speciality is optimizing manufacturing costs - they don't do electrical design.
@@brianb-p6586 You're right, I forgot that point!
When Tesla starts using 4680 cells, if you can find a way of cost-effectively and nondestructively breaking them apart, I'd love to buy a few for projects. Maybe a recycling company could do it for you. I'm a big Munro Live fan!👍
John - 4680 uses a FIRE retardent EPOXY, the batteries are Cemented in place and the whole pack cannot be replaced, 4680 should last the LIFE of the vehicle .
@@markplott4820 I'm not building or repairing a car. I thought it would be fun to use to power little electronics projects (Raspberry Pi stuff). I don't know if there's a way to dissolve the epoxy / cement / glue and desolder the cells. It's certainly not inexpensive, but I'd buy them anyway.
NO 4680 CELLS FOR YOU...!!! (Soup Nazi voice)
@@phillyphil1513 😀
If they go Cell2Car you will need to bolt a used ModelY to your wall if you want to reuse that battery as a stationary storage after its life in the car.
5,9,13,19........ 🤣😆 I was waiting for Sandy to loose count.
Have you taken apart the hv junction block with the contactors yet?
They probably have separate cooling plates to each battery to avoid large temp variation over a larger cooling plate.
Interesting. I hope you're going to tell us how many cells are in series on those modules. Will make great information for future reusability for DIY energy storage. Sometimes wrecked car is great source of high quality batteries.
The smaller modules must be 8S3P (24 cells), and the larger modules 10S3P (30 cells), in this "standard range" Mach-E pack to add up to the 288 cells in 96S3P of that pack.
jalopnik.com/a-look-at-the-engineering-behind-the-2021-ford-mustang-1839911078
This is exactly the same electrical configuration as the Chevrolet Bolt, although in the Bolt the two smaller modules physically sit on top of the rear pair of large modules, while the Mach-E puts the small pair ahead of the others.
The 8S and 10S configurations lead to the 32 V and 40 V module voltages, since they strangely chose to tear down a nearly fully charged (4 volts/cell) battery.
The extended range version adds two more modules over the rear pair of modules, and the modules are different to reach a 94S4P configuration of 376 cells... which implies 10 modules of 8S4P (32 cells) and two modules of 7S4P (28 cells). Both versions have the same cells; there are just more per module and more modules in the larger pack.
I'm not complaining about free content, but I didn't expect that "exposed" would mean just pulling the top cover off, and not measuring or removing even one module. It also seems strange to measure module voltages and not note that this means that they are 8S and 10S modules... but then, I do understand that Munro's focus is manufacturing cost, not electrical configuration.
And they're "modules" Sandy; yes, technically they are "batteries", but in standard industry terminology those components are "modules".
Why make one video when you can stretch it into 3 to 5? They get paid for advertising views. More vids=more money.
Would've been nice to hear Mark speak more.
I prefer mine with no music and the sound of tools.
I Enjoy your Podcast very much thank you.
It’s gonna be interesting to see what high SALT driving areas do to battery cases
Since EVs dont produce any heat, you can put plastic covers under the car to protect from salt and general dirt and such without issue. I dont know if that is what Ford has done, but Im sure all EV's will be completely plastic from the underside in the future.
I think we can be pretty sure any half intelligent auto manufacturer knows what materials to use to prevent this obvious and well known issue, and how to coat what's necessary in corrosion preventative compounds.
@@airheart1 lmao you ever looked at the cars on the road in a high salt area?
i'm picking up what he's laying down. there is indeed a difference between HIGH SALT (ref Chicago) and LOW SALT. most of the treatment OEM's currently do to vehicles is only adequate for LOW SALT. Pro Tip: the key to rust prevention is simply washing the UNDERSIDE of vehicles not just the TOPSIDE vehicles (which is what our vane natures causes us to focus on). of course, properly accessing the underside of a car isn't that easy unless you have a lift or local drive thru wash with working underside cleaning option. really even a set of ramps and a garden hose will do, the idea is just to RINSE the crap off occasionally. #PREVENTATIVEMAINTANENCE
@@airheart1, but Ford though.
im happy they made the voltage more friendly to home solar. but actually inverter companies should be making high voltage inverters.
I really hope you guys do a tear down on the new ford mavrick hybrid. Im watching the Mack E tear down to see if ford is doing a good job when it comes to electrical set up.
Keep up the good work guys!
Don't hold your breath.
Very scary battery module. Using rubber coolant hoses with spring clamps inside the pack and buss fuses without easy access? If this is the future, dealer service departments will continue to be busy. Almost as bad as 8 hour dash out procedure to access HVAC components on current vehicles.
R.I.P. Mark.
I wish the world would unite and crack the cancer code - which affects EVERYBODY - instead of being obsessed with something else..
Great job
Battery has space so if it gets smacked it you have a chance to recover cells. The faster looks to be thread forming. Everyone is scared of an allison transmission oops of not enough faster to seal. It looks like they made it actually serviceable.
Colloquial phrases are interesting. Who wants to kick a cat anyway? Also why are we killing multiple birds with single stones? They make me chuckle.
Q: Who wants to kick a cat anyway? A: Pits, Rotties, etc. i have 2 Eskies that seem to still have a lot of WOLF in them any time a cat shows up. #PACKHUNTERS
Box in a box in a box. -Giant empty spaces, wires and hoses going everywhere. This is like the thermal systems all over again, and if it's from SKI, (With LG lawsuit) damn there's no worry for Tesla, at least those suppliers...
Well the batteries need room incase the batteries expand.
@@mamadouaziza2536 ...No, sir. The modules are bolted together to prevent swelling. See discussion starting at 08:25 . Or did I misunderstand your sarcasm?
@@mamadouaziza2536 I know that you are joking, but still; pouch cells are in side of black boxes (modules) and there are space (caps) between cells for expansion.
@@mamadouaziza2536 the CELLS are inside those boxes.
It the cells which (may) require space to expand.
(Note: a "battery" is a collection of "cells")
@@jrb_sland5066 the modules (boxes) won't swell.
The cells inside might, but there's no indication of how much space is inside (yet).
There's a YT article on line of a BYD factory tour, showing their pack. (Fully charged show?)
You might benefit from watching that.
So my taking from this video: Sandy was looking for the mach-e cover made in is favourite material to be lighter than the ID4, but actually it was twice as heavy. But no big deal. (Better to focus on ID4 negatives.) On the Mach-e it seems as if they are looking for positives, while with the ID4 they are looking for negatives. This still seems biased towards american built only. I would like to se Sandy react/answer regarding Mach-e car vs MEB platform, in what he thinks about mach-e being made for a spesific car and MEB being for a multitude of cars.
Did you determine the LG Chem cell chemistry and model number? NCM712 instead of NCM811 chemistry? Model # ? E78 NCM712s or ? E66a or ?
Did you ever find out?