What you said about the financials is exactly why I say fans should calm down about a sudden coaching change as if we have the pick of the crop….unfortunately we just don’t
I just looked at WV’s travel schedule this year, you play 7 homes games (no travel) and 5 away games. Your away games are at Pitt and Cincinnati. You only had 1 long trip to Arizona. How is your travel so bad now? Only a small percentage of your fans can make the trip. When you played Va Tech back in the day how many of your fans really made that trip? Now Cal and Stanford can complain but not WV. Just sounds like WV is looking for excuses to leave Big 12. Just do it & go to ACC or AAC if you think that is better for WV. I’d rather bring on a team that wants to be in Big 12. Like Oregon St, WSU, or Boise St.
@@K-StateScottFL besides I don't want to join ACC. No team wants to join the ACC. Really arrogant fan base. I like the big 12. Basketball and football games and teams are way better.
@@K-StateScottFL I don’t think you know how close to the WV border Virginia Tech is. When WVU was there in 2022, about 1/4 of Lane Stadium was Mountaineers. And, I’ve made the trip to Blacksburg to see the Mountaineers play in 1990. It was closer of a drive to Blacksburg than going to Morgantown from my hometown. Couz is less than an hour drive to Blacksburg; 3 1/2 hour drive to Morgantown.
This would be great for all, Suer 2 are beating each other to death during conference play. It will get old even though the money is good it will start to dry up also, great show
Should be at least in the B12. If don’t have the money (BS) then drop out and go to CUSA, MAC, AAC where you can compete. WVU been in the B12 for 10 years and not even close to the top. BYU, 1 year and leading the B12, CO 2 years and at the top. . Dam embarrassing for WVU that G5 teams join the league and do better than WVU. ALL because of COACHING and most fans know it even those who will not admit that NB is the problem.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, I’m tired of the SEC and Big 10 having a hold on everyone else, it’s time for the ACC and Big 12 to merge and leave the NCAA and everyone else. Competing against 30+ teams for your own national championship is still respectable and we wouldn’t have to deal with the greedy SEC and Big 10
The current ACC is not going to merge with the current BIG12. The ACC would have to first deplete or depreciate down. Even then, there's no purpose served by a merger, but there would be a purpose for a separate Tier 2 playoff.
@@tarheel7406 Why not, the SEC and Big 10 have already expressed they do not want to expand, that leaves all Big 12 and ACC teams outside of the "super league" or "Power 2". As soon as the SEC and Big 10 realize they do not need the NCAA and in part the ACC or Big 12, the best option for both conferences would be to merge and create as big a league as possible in order to at least try to obtain the biggest TV deal they can. I'm not saying it is going to happen, but I genuinly think it is the best option for the two conferences. Plus, at this point, the SEC and Big 10 already have a hold on you, soon they will demand more auto bids for the playoff, imo, it would be better for all parties to seperate and do their own thing. As a WV fan, we might not be competing with the "big dogs" but we would be competeing against old rivals for a respectable enough title that football would still matter to most fans.
@@tmcobb04 a) The B1G is waiting out ND and UNC. The SEC is waiting out UNC and UVA. b) The current SEC and B1G haven't consolidated enough of the bigger brands and value to most effectively separate from the rest. c) All new BIG12 members are dilutive to the current ACC, so a merger is a non-starter. No reason to dilute brand, etc. anyway. The eventual Tier 2s will have more value in total as smaller regionals. d) Again, no reason for a still Tier 1 to merge with an already Tier 2. The ACC will have to first deplete or depreciate down.
@@tarheel7406 The University of North Carolina in trapped in “The NC System” which is why their Athletics Director is advocating for a super league and sees it as his only hope for getting out of the conference. The ACC is clearly now the 4th place power conference in football with a first year member from a tiny private school out of Texas likely the conference champion. And by the way that likely conference champion’s only loss was to a Big 12 team. The ACC is also the 4th place power conference in basketball by a wide margin. The ACC has already been deprecated down and it gets worse every year because of their undervalued media rights contract. UNC fans are living in the past.
It makes little difference where WVU ends up if we continue to hire ppl like Gordon Gee that has single handedly run this University into the ground…financially! Without having a full budget in front of me, I don’t have a single point to cite but I’m sure we could find some serious misappropriation of funds. WVU has to start by spending more wisely. That’s budgeting 101. Makes little difference if revenue increases if WVU keeps hiring ppl like Gee and Brown.
People continue to blame Shane Lyons on his contact extension. But you all don't understand or don't want to that the university president and the board of governors have to approve the contract extension that Lyons gave NealBrown!
@@michaelolenick4078 Thank you form pointing that out. Most think the AD makes the hiring and firing decisions. They are just the message people and someone in the University makes those calls and he carries the message. Lyons did not give that contract to BROWN without approval of Gee and the BOG and others.Most WVU fans don’t want to understand but they know and refuse to admit it. Like BROWN being a good coach and cannot afford to buy him out. Gee has at least 100 flunkies making well into 6 or 7 figures and contribute and do very little for the UNIVERSITY. Don’t care what budget. That is money being spent for Gold Bricks and freeloaders.
Just imagine conferences where you played teams bordering your state. WVU schedule: (Maryland, VA, Va Tech, Penn State, Ohio State, Pitt, Ky, Louisville, Cincy.) Non Con: Marshall, Bowling Green, JMU. How that sound for travelling to away games? Oh, I'm sorry, makes too much sense.
That would be a great deal for WVU but how could you create a conference using that formula? WVU is not the center of the universe (unless you live there).
We did just play PSU, Pitt, and Cincy this year and hopefully you are not advocating for away games against JMU, Bowling Green, and Marshall. The only way to ever get Maryland, PSU, and OSU on WVU’s schedule regularly would be to become a B1G member which is never happening.
Interesting possibility, travel would be better, but the regionalitty would limit media visibility. Steaming & private capital would help. I'm thinking the next year will change the landscape of college sports.
The ACC would have likely collapsed already except the State of North Carolina stepped in and stopped UNC from leaving the conference. UNC was supposed to join FSU and Clemson in suing the ACC. The State of North Carolina does not want Duke, Wake Forest, and NC State to get left behind. They also don't want the ACC to be relegated to G5 status, even though the ACC already is a G5 now according to the CFP rankings. In the last two weeks, the ACC, Big 12, and G5 all have one team in the playoff rankings while the SEC and Big Ten have the rest of the spots.
Nonsense.... a) I maintain that CLEMSON is allied with UNC, so CLEMSON's litigating is for both. UNC directly litigating would be overly impactful. b) As of this comment, the ACC has a feasible chance to get 3 in the CFP while the BIG12 is at risk of being shut out. The most telling numbers that reflect where the BIG12 stands and is viewed by the other P4s: 2015/16 - 2023/24 Final D-Cup Standings (2020 N/A): ACC: 23 Top 10, 48 Top 20 (includes ND, STANFORD & CAL) B12: 00 Top 10, 06 Top 20 (includes AZST, excludes TEXAS & TXAM) B1G: 26 Top 10, 45 Top 20 (includes USC & UCLA) PAC: 00 Top 10, 00 Top 20 (excludes USC, UCLA, STANFORD, CAL & AZST) SEC: 31 Top 10, 60 Top 20 (includes TEXAS, OK & TXAM)
As someone who lives in Wichita, Kansas, I have always thought that West Virginia in the Big 12 was a strange move. I realize that geography no longer matters as everyone is chasing the almighty dollar. It is now all about the $. I get it. College athletics as we knew it is now dead. Thank you transfer portal and NIL. I get it. Geographically, West Virginia belongs somewhere in the east, not the middle of the country. Geography still matters to us old school people.
Yet the most common position I read from WVU fans is that WVU should stay in the already Tier 2 BIG12 than move to a possible future rebuilt Tier 2 ACC. This tells me that WVU doesn't highly value more regionality, a higher academic association, nor overall sports competition. Why would there be interest from either side?
Just a guess: if the ACC(old or new) and B12 were to make a PE agreement the happiest people would be Petitti and Sankey because their potential anti-trust lawsuit worries fade further away. The P2 would relish the ACC and B12 making the first move toward merger. Also, Couz, not to put a damper on your theory, but I think Flugar said the potential move by some in the ACC was to consolidate with fewer members (10) so that the new revenue pie would be divided into fewer pieces.
@@HasBeen-en3ue that’s a good point. I’m not predicting this to actually happen. I just look at it and wonder if Gee is trying to position WVU to be in.
@ Another guess: it might fall in a different direction with old WVU rivals Pitt, Louisville, Cincinnati etc. getting left out of a newly reconfigured ACC and coming into the B12. (By the way, my guesses seem seldom correct.) Like many, I stopped trying to get inside Gordon Gee’s (or any other university president’s) brain long ago. Realizing WVU’s money problem this might be just Gee’s play to saddle up next to PE interests - just in case.
@ For some fans yes, but fans aren’t driving this bus; the $$$ provided by media rights companies are. Media rights companies want big brands and enough brand matchups to fill their Saturday programming. That’s the direction this will continue to head. The era of the 10-team conference is over. We can mourn it, but it simply is, for the college football fans, the situation and we have no control over it. (I have yet to figure out, however, how a consolidated ACC would fit in the theory.(
@@HasBeen-en3ue a) I don't see why a 10-team consolidated conference wouldn't work. b) Tier 2 football will have fungible base value per member. The value added will be from synergies, etc. and from non-football factors. Big football brands aren't part of the Tier 2 equation.
Exactly where would WVU get the money to leave the BIG 12? UT and OU paid the BIG 12 $50 million each. I don't see anyone giving WVU that amount of money under any kind of circumstances.
The scenario presented is a contracted ACC surviving as a peer Tier 1 with Tier 1 revenue per team. The question would be whether any exit fee is worth the much greater revenue going forward and how to finance (if so). During an amicable realignment at the Tier 2 level, all exit fees, etc. are waived.
@@CouzsCornerSports If this is a real and viable thing, every non-SEC/B1G should be trying to a part of it. Projecting into that future, I would try to stay at 10 if viable for max expansion options. UGA and FLORIDA would be at the top of the wish list, but PSU and MARYLAND would be more attainable for 11 and 12.
The dissolution theory was there from the very beginning and because of its exclusion from the ACC bylaws, a simple majority was always the number needed. 8 schools before the last expansion and 10 afterwards. The implosion of the ACC will occur when there are 10 schools ready to vote for it which is likely the reason that the “chatter” that Flugaur is hearing references 10 schools. The nuclear trigger for the ACC implosion is not a scheduling agreement between the B1G and the SEC, but it is what it has always been which is ESPN’s unilateral option revealed in the FSU legal complaint: “It is a widely repeated misconception that the ACC’s multi-media rights agreement expires in 2036. As explained below, in truth, the multi-media rights agreement expires in 2027 unless ESPN chooses to exercise its unilateral option through 2036, a decision ESPN has no duty to make until February 2025, thanks to other additional conference mismanagement detailed below.” - FSU’s legal complaint filed Dec. 22, 2023 It is not likely that 10 ACC schools will dissolve the conference and then form a new conference because there is zero trust among members at this point. Plus the lure of being in the B1G or SEC once the shackles of the GOR are gone will be too much for any school to resist. They will stab the others members in the back quicker than Oregon & Washington did. The SEC will eat first by taking NC, UVA, Clemson, and FSU. Notre Dane will be checkmated into reluctantly joining the B1G along with one other ACC school likely Stanford. With no TV contract and 6 votes for dissolution already in the bag, the remaining 4 vote will come from ACC schools that negotiate membership into the Big 12. Louisville, Pitt, Miami, and Duke are all possibilities. The networks will have achieved their desired goal of consolidation with three 20 team power conferences with one of course being a distant 3rd financially. ESPN simply informs the ACC that they chose not to exercise their unilateral option before the end of February 2025 and the rest plays out without network interference (at least on the surface). Game. Set. Match.
a) As long as UNC stays, ESPN eagerly renews. ESPN is already ~100% renewing even if there is some depletion from the top given its deal with the new BIG12 and the addition of CAL+2. b) CAL+2 would not have been invited if dissolution has been a considered strategy. c) Actual events suggest that the "renewal" is actually a "look in" or that there's also a triggered "look in". d) If there is any truth in this dissolution, it would be led by UNC (and to a lesser ND/UVA), who don't want to move to even the "P2". The other chosen 10 won't have a "P2" invite, and no ACC member votes to dissolve to go to the BIG12. e) FSU doesn't make a 20 team SEC. Most likely, UVA, UNC, DUKE, CLEMSON. The B1G waits out ND/MIAMI. The remainders have already backfilled. FSU moves to the BIG12. f) The BIG12 has no feasible path to a P3.
The idea of the regional games/rivalries from this league would be awesome for sure. However the best way to generate income as a football team is to put a winning, quality product on the field and fill the stands. No more revenue problems! As always love the show and food for thought brother Couz. 👍
I don’t think the Big 12 would be all that bothered to lose WVU to an eastern league, not that we wouldn’t be sad to see them go, but that it just makes a lot of sense for WVU. I’d much rather see drastic expansion that creates an eastern wing.
I am getting frustrated with the unknowing regarding college realignment. My initial thoughts were CFB could go the way of NASCAR by alienating fans chasing the almighty dollar. I am starting to think it could be more like IRL and CART situation for American open wheel racing. We could be staring down the barrel of a split in college athletics with traditionalist on one side and professionalizing on the other. What I think may be going on with UNC-CH and ACC discussions is a realization that a non-insignificant group of schools sit on both sides of that divide. Another piece of this is what the ROI is for PE. Other than a cash infusion, what does it provide the schools. The investors don't have a product to carry forward and sell other than media rights. Is there enough? And, why wouldn't they just work to make the rich, richer. My thought is UNC-CH, et. al. are not looking at PE for just athletics, but as partners up/down the academic/athletic stack. They anticipate falling enrollments (demographics and alternative paths) along with reduced federal research funding (regardless of party control) moving forward. Now, as a packaged deal I can see PE ROI. Use athletics as a means for recruiting students/faculty in a lean environment with moderate media rights returns and academics to drive research forming new companies/technology to feed PE returns.
a) This realignment is about contraction via consolidation at a new Tier 1 level. To most effectively separate from the rest, the SEC and B1G need to consolidate all (or nearly) of the bigger brands, major flags, etc. The BIG12 and PAC have already been plundered, leaving the ACC. While FSU prefers to be consolidated, UNC, ND and others prefer surviving for a P3. b) Private equity without a permanent increase in value (i.e. not a sugar high) is a step backwards in the end. c) The Southeast is unlikely to be facing smaller enrollments, as its population is growing at ~10% per census and is unlikely to be aging like those in the core B1G states. To improve its selectivity, it's my understanding that FSU froze its undergrad enrollment. This explains the explosion at UCF, etc. In contrast, (e.g.) IOWA and PSU's in-state enrollment is now below 50%. At some point, both will have to drastically lower selectivity and/or shrink enrollment. d) I do think that austerity measures will be the future, materially affecting these AAU members. Even more reason to focus on academic reputation rather than just AAU status.
@@tarheel7406 We have 2+ conference commissioners and multiple universities announce openness to PE. None of that has come to fruition. The reason is the ROI coming from ongoing uncertainty in the House settlement, NLRB actions, and changing "entertainment" trends. One way to mitigate is to expand PE beyond athletic rights, but funding university functions as well. This increases potential ROI. The schools involved in this conversation are all high intensity research universities with most AAU members. When looking at enrollment numbers, being in the sunbelt is not a panacea. Even the UNC System has schools with dropping enrollment along with many privates across the region. NC State had plans for 50k+. They expect growth to slow and are expecting now to top out at 40-45k. UNC Charlotte is exploding with expectations they'll pass UNC Chapel Hill in the next year or two with 35k. However, ECU enrollment remains flat. You see similar patterns across the Southeast. Schools in urban areas are growing. Those outside are flat to negative.
@@toast803 a) I'm focusing on PE related to athletics. I suspect that private money is already going to schools for research on top of government grants. b) I can see both UNC and NCSTATE slowing enrollment and increasing selectivity, funneling more in-state students down the tiered system. The natural extended fanbases would still grow. My observations are more regional. Ignoring space limitations, a lower enrollment would still be by choice rather from a lack of applicants.
The biggest issue WVU has in leaving is the Grant of Rights the Big 12 has. Would I love to see VPI, Pitt, Syracuse, and Louisville on the schedule every year; you bet!!! But, it might be expensive and extremely difficult to leave.
@ nobody said we didn’t want to be in the Big 12. I said no the new conference can make WVU more money. I care more about WVU than the conference they play in.
I like having WVU in the B12, but I'm tired of hearing the grass is greener in whatever fantasy league might be coming for WVU in the future. Maybe y'all should focus on winning games in the B12 instead of looking for another league to join. Between y'all, Utah, and the media, you're making the B12 climb a bigger Mt. than the one we're already trying to climb. WVU could help a lot by being relevant and just winning games. The East Coast bias works in WVU favor. If y'all could take advantage of that, it would really help the league. Work on what you can control & quit hoping for what you can't control to be beneficial.
LIFE IS A GAME ITS NOT WEATHER YOU WIN OR LOSE BUT HOW YOU PLAY IT --- money should not matter! I may "sound like a YODA - but how long has Morgantown look like NYC??? wish we would get back to W.V.U.
And we’d have a chance to win conference titles. West Virginia can’t really win no big 12 titles when you got Kansas houston and now Arizona in basketball. WVUs chances of winning the new conference would be a lot higher. But I doubt we see that happen
@@CouzsCornerSports BAYLOR has had a good recent run of teams. Its success has not been long nor sustained enough to be peer with actual lite blues. I have offered comparisons already on a number of occasions. If BAYOR is a lite, so is NCSTATE and others. The term starts to lose any meaning. We also know that the BIG12 is overrated (ranked) due to failed expectations in the NCAAT. I'm not interested in the original stupid trash talk. I am interested in the ignorant assumptions upon which such talk is based.
Imagine this 14 team conference. Notre Dame Clemson Florida State Miami North Carolina Duke North Carolina State Virginia Tech Virginia West Virginia Syracuse Louisville Pittsburgh Central Florida
No need for WVU and/or UCF. Perhaps no need for L'VILLE, CUSE and/or PITT. My 10 if just current ACC members: FSU MIAMI GATECH CLEMSON UNC NCSTATE DUKE UVA VATECH ND
@@tarheel7406 that list is why the ACC is known as the worst football (and basketball) conference. And toss ND. They yo pimp, daddy. They won't share 1 cent with that lame conference.
@@tarheel7406 I think this conference would be considered relatively adjacent to the "Super 2". I think UCF has a lot of potential and I want as many teams as possible to play big time college football. Might not be realistic tho
@@Joe-sm9qj a) The BIG12 is the worst football conference (no big brands). The ACC is the best basketball conference. b) An ACC 2.0 may be ND's last chance to avoid joining the B1G. If it won't join, it would remain associated as it is now. c) The BIG12 is the posterchild for "lame".
@@tarheel7406 who's your big brand? Florida State? North Carolina? We got Kansas, bra. Clemson is not a big brand. BYU is massive and WVU is best of rest baby, close runner-up is ok state and Kansas State. Who you got? NC State? 🤣
The BIG12's center of gravity has moved heavily west with BYU and the 4Cs, yet you complain about the effects of that on WVU's preferences? The remainders from such an ACC contraction would likely rebuild some new BIGEAST. Why shouldn't the new BIG12 release its eastern members to better focus on a contracted Tier 2 BIG12?
We don’t want out. We just need more money and I can’t help but wonder if Gee is still playing his cards to try and get a spot in a potential new league. I could be totally misreading it too. Who knows?
@@CouzsCornerSports "We just need more money...." This examples why WVU is such a bad fit in the ACC. The mutual attraction should be based on synergies, shared culture/priorities, etc. Money is just part of the mix.
@@matt8495 LOL - Per the Altimore graph, SMU has average academics per ACC standards (would be the highest in the BIG12), and its athletics should improve after its elevation. Regardless, SMU was added by the ACC as part of a managed decline to the BIG12's Tier 2 level. WVU was always rejected by the ACC while it was maintaining Tier 1 status. Did I actually have to explain all of this?
What is to stop the Big 10 & SEC from taking ND and the most valuable teams from the ACC & Big XII? Let’s put UNC, NC St, UVA, Clemson, Kansas, Ok St, TCU and TT in the SEC, and ASU, FSU, Miami, ND, Stanford and Colorado ( or Utah) in the Big 10? I bet networks and streamers would pay more for those teams then say Wake Forest @ Boston College
TCU is a year removed from playing in the national championship game. I know they lost big, but they got there. I don't know why you hate on the B12 so much, but I'm tired of your delusional comments. What has UNC ever accomplished on the football field for you to be on such a high horse? Look, the future of the ACC is in UNC hands. It's ya'lls choice to remain, split, or jump. The B12 has nothing to do with what happens. So make your choice & quit throwing shade at the B12. You do realize the national media looks at both of us as tier 2 leagues?
@@kafkakaraoke a) TCU is a G5 equivalent. A Tier 4 vanilla private school It didn't make the original BIG12. It didn't backfill CO/NEB. The BIG8/SWC group has already had a good number of schools get consolidated into the evolving Tier 1. It's arrogant to think even more are needed. That's not hate on my part. b) UNC's value is diversified. c) I measure Tier 1 based on actual value and top-level competitiveness. The BIG12 is the sole Tier 2 by that measure.
@@tarheel7406 I don't need a history lesson. I've been following UT since the SWC days. All of that is irrelevant, just like UNC football, and your delusional comments. Hook'em. You just like arguing online for whatever reason I won't judge. Just keep your hate off of B12 channels man, it's annoying. Notice my team is where you wish you were in a tier 1 conference, and nobody thinks the ACC is on the same level but you. You're single handedly making me hate UNC and it's fan base. A hate previously reserved for A&M & Oklahoma. Still couldn't pay me to watch you play ACC games with powerhouses like Wake, BC, Cal, Syracuse etc., etc, but I'll celebrate your losses. Go Duke!!
@@kafkakaraoke LOL... UNC has been passing on SEC/B1G invites for decades. UNC hasn't caused the ACC upper middle class to flee like TEXAS has. The ACC remains a Tier 1 conference until it either depletes or depreciates down. TEXAS is already hated. It fled the BIG12 due to powerhouses like TCU, BAYLOR, KSTATE, etc. I respect TEXAS as an upper right school. When did this exchange become about TEXAS?
LOL the "ONCE AGAIN" No WAY the ACC implodes unless UNC leaves. The ACC which is considered undervalued (which caused FSU to get pissed) is still paying out more by a tad than the Big XII. Last year it was $48 million which I also provided the link for since under open records act several ACC teams released their budgets which showed the amount. So please quit with the Bigfoot sightings!!! Really this the best you could come up with...during the football season??? LOL Save this junk for June.
Per some connections, Flugar/PATC reported that a dissolution of the ACC followed by a new conference founded by the top ~10 is a real possibility. While I have my doubts, it's a legitimate topic for a WVU focused channel.
@@tarheel7406 Nope...not a buyer. What is the top 10? Who gets in? Who is left out? What criteria would be utilized? etc. I just can't see UNC leaving unless NC State also gets picked. Would UNC leave Duke? And if not...there would be 3. So who is the other 7? Carrying FSU would be a joke when they have proven to be begging to leave any such conference unless it brings in BIGI or SEC type of $. So would 10 help to bring in that sum? NO. Just can't see any combination of 10 to justify the tv ratings needed. Just more smoke to get folks' dander up. :) And since football drives the bus $ wise....do NC State or Duke help or hurt??? Just another podcaster trying for views. Way too much of that but it is entertaining. Seems every team and every conference has people out there now throwing theories around with little real merit.
Hey tarheel...if you come to ATL to watch a game at GT or the next time we play up there...we ought to meet up. We may disagree once in a while but I can tell you are at least sane about the ACC. LOL
@@kingsgambit7734 I wrote that I have my doubts, namely because CAL+2 were invited, which increased the number of votes necessary. Would also require a humbled FSU (as you suggested), perhaps ND in full. The top 10 (including ND or associated) should be close enough to peer Tier 1 in value per member. High academics, large and fast-growing populations, etc. Real life stuff has brought me back to NC from the ATL,
Hey Couz! I love to go back to the East. Like in one of the comments, travel would be better. Look at what our new basketball coach will look at when we travel to Arizona and other faraway places.
ACC made a huge mistake not taking West Virginia that's why they're TV contract is not that valuable. The games in the ACC aren't very passionate but a few of them. There is no real big rivals in ACC football besides a few adding West Virginia would have added a lot of passionate games better TV ratings and renewed rivalries. Just look how the Mountaineer showed up in Charlotte to play the tar heels. But let's be honest the ACC has really bad leadership and it shows by not adding West Virginia years ago. West Virginia is the perfect fit for the ACC just like Notre Dame is the perfect fit for the Big 10. But I really like the big 12 but man that travel is just too much for a poor state. And to be honest it's hard to get behind the West Virginia playing UCF, Houston BYU Arizona Arizona State Colorado and Utah nothing against those teams but we really don't have any history with them. And everyone so far away it's ridiculous. Why not add Hawaii??
@@tarheel7406 He is right, you are wrong (again). Adding Syracuse and Boston college did nothing. And Pitt brings nothing without WVU. The WVU vt and Pitt matchups in the 90--00s were bigger than anything the ACC has been able to produce. People actually watched those games. WVU has been on major TV networks almost every weekend for 20+ years. My PA friends get mad that we're on prime tv so often.
@@Joe-sm9qj So moronic.... CUSE/BC were required to get MIAMI. So was PITT at the end. WVU is a low value P5 equivalent (it didn't make the original P5 cut). Those claimed rivals were among the most hostile to inviting WVU. Those rivalries were also allowed to wither un-played for ~10 years. The ACC has considered WVU many times, including over the past 3 years, and it has come up short each time. It simply does NOT have the value you claim as determined by those tasked with deciding such matters.
@@Gregcarver-yy9ts The history is what it is. The ACC will make academic, etc. exceptions if the addition serves a compelling need. FSU brought a big football brand. MARYLAND had to be replaced (i.e. L'VILLE, a big hoops brand). WVU has low base value and low relative value to the ACC. It isn't a big brand in football, basketball or overall. It's feelings towards VATECH, etc. aren't reciprocated to the same degree.
@@CouzsCornerSports What benefit would there be for WVU to remain in the BIG!2 that has ALREADY lost its top brands? Again, if WVU doesn't make the final Tier 1 cut, football will only matter for synergies, etc. Tier 2 football will be otherwise fungible. Where will provide those synergies and the most in other factors?
The old WVU fans wanting these regional games back will be the downfall of WVU football and bball! If what u said happens the top 3-4 teams will still be crying about money and playoff love the SEC and Big 10 gets cause that's who they are they will never be happy until they are equals with BAMA and Ohio St. If u think they will pick that conf over the big 2 that is just crazy talk esp. the ND take is just nuts. WVU will join that conf then the tops 4 teams would leave in 5yrs and WVU will be stuck in the same situation we was in the Big East.
I'm hearing the 2 super confs is wanting at least 1 team from every football state in the lower 48 states so they can have total coverage of the whole country and won't have to worry about filling time slots cause all will be covered.
If the ACC dissolves, then Utah and WVU should join ACC 2.0 assuming FSU and Clemson stays. B1G picks up ND, Stanford, Cal and maybe GT or Miami. That puts the ACC back on top of the Big 12.
Always nonsense.... a) To where would FSU and CLEMSON go? b) ND would support this to avoid having to join the B1G c) The B1G will wait out ND, UNC & UVA, including the potential failure of ACC 2.0 d) Why would ACC 2.0 add UTAH and/or WVU? Try and think first....
@tarheel7406 ND is not joining the ACC now. So it's going to join the ACC where it's Olympic sports would still be underserved, weak strength of schedule with only 2 playoff spots tops, and take over $30 million less per year in revenue? Okay. I'm not going in circles about FSU and Clemson. They're getting picked up the minute the ACC implodes and they wanted to leave. The same way UNC would get picked up as football filler. The ACC can't stay at 10 teams with the Big 12, B1G, and SEC all above 16 to 20. You need content for the TV networks which you don't understand.
@@heartbreak25 LIL... Always nonsense.... a) ND may join a contracted ACC 2.0 to avoid having to join the B1G b) Why would ND's Olympic sports be underserved? c) The purposed of a contracted ACC is to close the per member revenue gap d) FSU and CLEMSON have no better place to go until ND, UNC & UVA are secured or lost to the SEC or B1G e) A 10 team ACC could work with a round robin schedule. Higher quality per game vs. quantity f) If more than 10 is needed, plenty of filler options.
@tarheel7406 China may invade the USA next week. I'll believe it when I see it. You're supposed to be Mr. Know-It-All and you don't know that Notre Dame is unhappy with their Olympic sports being in the ACC? Interesting. Using real math, how does one close a $40 million gap when the football brands remain the same? Round Robin? Like the PAC-12 is the secret weapon? You don't already know the TV rating of a Duke/UNC football game? 😂 You goal is to have more of those games? Okay. Again, you really don't understand how TV works based on your past comments. I have no patience to explain it to you again since you don't actually watch sports to learn anyway.
@@heartbreak25 a) The McMurphy article was only ~3 months ago. b) ND has given up ~50% of its football independence to get its other sports in the ACC. c) This proposal is removing from the bottom rather than adding to the top. d) Coming into this realignment, the BIG12's round robin schedule was an asset. As always, you have no clue when triggered. You have yet to admit being wrong about (e.g.) the BIG divesting some from the BTN (per Wiki at least).
'What happened to West Virginia? They're horrible.' That's now WVU's reputation... nationally...thanks to NB's horrible performances on national TV. Add our horrible finances...not getting invited to any dance.
a) If the dissolution option has been in the water, CAL+2 would not have been added unless "yes" votes. I maintain that CAL+2 came with a side agreement that all of the approvers would not attempt to leave until at least 2036. b) Why would private equity be a thing in this scenario? The purpose would be to increase value per member via a contraction. Supporting private equity for some new ~64 member super league is different than for a contracted ACC.
Side agreement? Lol! That's ridiculous that any university president can make a side agreement that a future president would or could honor. And those schools were added because of ND and not UNC.
@@heartbreak25 LOL... a) I didn't claim that the side agreement would be verbal. b) Current agents bind entities all the time that remain effective when others hold those offices in the future. MIAMI accepting an ACC invite came with a side agreement to also invite BC and CUSE. BC was invited ~1 year later. CUSE was invited ~10 years later. You really need to be better informed.
If wv fans want out the big 12 so bad just go now. Don't wait. Be brave. If your gonna screw the conference that saved you do it now. Take utah with you. But B12 can add UConn who's football this year is better than Utah and wv and their basketball is always better. You don't like the big 12. All ya'all do is talk about the east. I'd take Memphis for wv. B12 basketball and football would be better
What you said about the financials is exactly why I say fans should calm down about a sudden coaching change as if we have the pick of the crop….unfortunately we just don’t
I just looked at WV’s travel schedule this year, you play 7 homes games (no travel) and 5 away games. Your away games are at Pitt and Cincinnati. You only had 1 long trip to Arizona. How is your travel so bad now? Only a small percentage of your fans can make the trip. When you played Va Tech back in the day how many of your fans really made that trip? Now Cal and Stanford can complain but not WV. Just sounds like WV is looking for excuses to leave Big 12. Just do it & go to ACC or AAC if you think that is better for WV. I’d rather bring on a team that wants to be in Big 12. Like Oregon St, WSU, or Boise St.
@@K-StateScottFL this year was different. Look at the last decade
@@K-StateScottFL besides I don't want to join ACC. No team wants to join the ACC. Really arrogant fan base. I like the big 12. Basketball and football games and teams are way better.
@@K-StateScottFL I don’t think you know how close to the WV border Virginia Tech is. When WVU was there in 2022, about 1/4 of Lane Stadium was Mountaineers.
And, I’ve made the trip to Blacksburg to see the Mountaineers play in 1990. It was closer of a drive to Blacksburg than going to Morgantown from my hometown. Couz is less than an hour drive to Blacksburg; 3 1/2 hour drive to Morgantown.
A lot of fans travel to VT. Their campus is less than an hour from the West Virginia border.
You are only looking at one year as far as the travel.
This would be great for all, Suer 2 are beating each other to death during conference play. It will get old even though the money is good it will start to dry up also, great show
I guess we'll wait and see. Who knows anymore. SEspnC and the greed is sickening.
I just hope when it's all over teams land on their feet. It sucks when you got to keep worrying about getting screwed over.
@@unclelarry9138 yep
Always enjoy your show brother!💯✅🫡
Thank you.
I agree. Can't keep hiring Gee and Brown types. Gee is happy with 6 wins and a bowl. We are better than that
Should be at least in the B12. If don’t have the money (BS) then drop out and go to CUSA, MAC, AAC where you can compete. WVU been in the B12 for 10 years and not even close to the top. BYU, 1 year and leading the B12, CO 2 years and at the top. . Dam embarrassing for WVU that G5 teams join the league and do better than WVU. ALL because of COACHING and most fans know it even those who will not admit that NB is the problem.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, I’m tired of the SEC and Big 10 having a hold on everyone else, it’s time for the ACC and Big 12 to merge and leave the NCAA and everyone else. Competing against 30+ teams for your own national championship is still respectable and we wouldn’t have to deal with the greedy SEC and Big 10
@@tmcobb04 I could go for that
The current ACC is not going to merge with the current BIG12. The ACC would have to first deplete or depreciate down. Even then, there's no purpose served by a merger, but there would be a purpose for a separate Tier 2 playoff.
@@tarheel7406 Why not, the SEC and Big 10 have already expressed they do not want to expand, that leaves all Big 12 and ACC teams outside of the "super league" or "Power 2". As soon as the SEC and Big 10 realize they do not need the NCAA and in part the ACC or Big 12, the best option for both conferences would be to merge and create as big a league as possible in order to at least try to obtain the biggest TV deal they can. I'm not saying it is going to happen, but I genuinly think it is the best option for the two conferences. Plus, at this point, the SEC and Big 10 already have a hold on you, soon they will demand more auto bids for the playoff, imo, it would be better for all parties to seperate and do their own thing. As a WV fan, we might not be competing with the "big dogs" but we would be competeing against old rivals for a respectable enough title that football would still matter to most fans.
@@tmcobb04
a) The B1G is waiting out ND and UNC. The SEC is waiting out UNC and UVA.
b) The current SEC and B1G haven't consolidated enough of the bigger brands and value to most effectively separate from the rest.
c) All new BIG12 members are dilutive to the current ACC, so a merger is a non-starter. No reason to dilute brand, etc. anyway. The eventual Tier 2s will have more value in total as smaller regionals.
d) Again, no reason for a still Tier 1 to merge with an already Tier 2. The ACC will have to first deplete or depreciate down.
@@tarheel7406 The University of North Carolina in trapped in “The NC System” which is why their Athletics Director is advocating for a super league and sees it as his only hope for getting out of the conference. The ACC is clearly now the 4th place power conference in football with a first year member from a tiny private school out of Texas likely the conference champion. And by the way that likely conference champion’s only loss was to a Big 12 team. The ACC is also the 4th place power conference in basketball by a wide margin. The ACC has already been deprecated down and it gets worse every year because of their undervalued media rights contract. UNC fans are living in the past.
It makes little difference where WVU ends up if we continue to hire ppl like Gordon Gee that has single handedly run this University into the ground…financially! Without having a full budget in front of me, I don’t have a single point to cite but I’m sure we could find some serious misappropriation of funds. WVU has to start by spending more wisely. That’s budgeting 101. Makes little difference if revenue increases if WVU keeps hiring ppl like Gee and Brown.
Gordon Gee retires June 30 2025.
People continue to blame Shane Lyons on his contact extension. But you all don't understand or don't want to that the university president and the board of governors have to approve the contract extension that Lyons gave NealBrown!
@@michaelolenick4078 Thank you form pointing that out. Most think the AD makes the hiring and firing decisions. They are just the message people and someone in the University makes those calls and he carries the message. Lyons did not give that contract to BROWN without approval of Gee and the BOG and others.Most WVU fans don’t want to understand but they know and refuse to admit it. Like BROWN being a good coach and cannot afford to buy him out. Gee has at least 100 flunkies making well into 6 or 7 figures and contribute and do very little for the UNIVERSITY. Don’t care what budget. That is money being spent for Gold Bricks and freeloaders.
Just imagine conferences where you played teams bordering your state. WVU schedule: (Maryland, VA, Va Tech, Penn State, Ohio State, Pitt, Ky, Louisville, Cincy.) Non Con: Marshall, Bowling Green, JMU. How that sound for travelling to away games? Oh, I'm sorry, makes too much sense.
Except for us playing Marshall I agree.
True
That would be a great deal for WVU but how could you create a conference using that formula? WVU is not the center of the universe (unless you live there).
We did just play PSU, Pitt, and Cincy this year and hopefully you are not advocating for away games against JMU, Bowling Green, and Marshall. The only way to ever get Maryland, PSU, and OSU on WVU’s schedule regularly would be to become a B1G member which is never happening.
I doubt the ACC will dissolve. They have had a pretty good season, except for Fla State.
Interesting possibility, travel would be better, but the regionalitty would limit media visibility. Steaming & private capital would help. I'm thinking the next year will change the landscape of college sports.
The ACC would have likely collapsed already except the State of North Carolina stepped in and stopped UNC from leaving the conference. UNC was supposed to join FSU and Clemson in suing the ACC. The State of North Carolina does not want Duke, Wake Forest, and NC State to get left behind. They also don't want the ACC to be relegated to G5 status, even though the ACC already is a G5 now according to the CFP rankings. In the last two weeks, the ACC, Big 12, and G5 all have one team in the playoff rankings while the SEC and Big Ten have the rest of the spots.
Yep. We are being relegated
Nonsense....
a) I maintain that CLEMSON is allied with UNC, so CLEMSON's litigating is for both. UNC directly litigating would be overly impactful.
b) As of this comment, the ACC has a feasible chance to get 3 in the CFP while the BIG12 is at risk of being shut out.
The most telling numbers that reflect where the BIG12 stands and is viewed by the other P4s:
2015/16 - 2023/24 Final D-Cup Standings (2020 N/A):
ACC: 23 Top 10, 48 Top 20 (includes ND, STANFORD & CAL)
B12: 00 Top 10, 06 Top 20 (includes AZST, excludes TEXAS & TXAM)
B1G: 26 Top 10, 45 Top 20 (includes USC & UCLA)
PAC: 00 Top 10, 00 Top 20 (excludes USC, UCLA, STANFORD, CAL & AZST)
SEC: 31 Top 10, 60 Top 20 (includes TEXAS, OK & TXAM)
As someone who lives in Wichita, Kansas, I have always thought that West Virginia in the Big 12 was a strange move. I realize that geography no longer matters as everyone is chasing the almighty dollar. It is now all about the $. I get it. College athletics as we knew it is now dead. Thank you transfer portal and NIL. I get it. Geographically, West Virginia belongs somewhere in the east, not the middle of the country. Geography still matters to us old school people.
Thank you.
Yet the most common position I read from WVU fans is that WVU should stay in the already Tier 2 BIG12 than move to a possible future rebuilt Tier 2 ACC. This tells me that WVU doesn't highly value more regionality, a higher academic association, nor overall sports competition. Why would there be interest from either side?
Just a guess: if the ACC(old or new) and B12 were to make a PE agreement the happiest people would be Petitti and Sankey because their potential anti-trust lawsuit worries fade further away. The P2 would relish the ACC and B12 making the first move toward merger.
Also, Couz, not to put a damper on your theory, but I think Flugar said the potential move by some in the ACC was to consolidate with fewer members (10) so that the new revenue pie would be divided into fewer pieces.
@@HasBeen-en3ue that’s a good point. I’m not predicting this to actually happen. I just look at it and wonder if Gee is trying to position WVU to be in.
@ Another guess: it might fall in a different direction with old WVU rivals Pitt, Louisville, Cincinnati etc. getting left out of a newly reconfigured ACC and coming into the B12.
(By the way, my guesses seem seldom correct.)
Like many, I stopped trying to get inside Gordon Gee’s (or any other university president’s) brain long ago. Realizing WVU’s money problem this might be just Gee’s play to saddle up next to PE interests - just in case.
@@HasBeen-en3ue Wouldn't it be better to recreate a new BIGEAST for a round robin schedule?
@ For some fans yes, but fans aren’t driving this bus; the $$$ provided by media rights companies are. Media rights companies want big brands and enough brand matchups to fill their Saturday programming. That’s the direction this will continue to head. The era of the 10-team conference is over. We can mourn it, but it simply is, for the college football fans, the situation and we have no control over it. (I have yet to figure out, however, how a consolidated ACC would fit in the theory.(
@@HasBeen-en3ue
a) I don't see why a 10-team consolidated conference wouldn't work.
b) Tier 2 football will have fungible base value per member. The value added will be from synergies, etc. and from non-football factors. Big football brands aren't part of the Tier 2 equation.
Exactly where would WVU get the money to leave the BIG 12? UT and OU paid the BIG 12 $50 million each. I don't see anyone giving WVU that amount of money under any kind of circumstances.
The scenario presented is a contracted ACC surviving as a peer Tier 1 with Tier 1 revenue per team. The question would be whether any exit fee is worth the much greater revenue going forward and how to finance (if so).
During an amicable realignment at the Tier 2 level, all exit fees, etc. are waived.
Private Equity. But that’s a fair comment. I personally am not predicting this to happen, but WVU could try to be a part of it.
@@CouzsCornerSports If this is a real and viable thing, every non-SEC/B1G should be trying to a part of it.
Projecting into that future, I would try to stay at 10 if viable for max expansion options. UGA and FLORIDA would be at the top of the wish list, but PSU and MARYLAND would be more attainable for 11 and 12.
The dissolution theory was there from the very beginning and because of its exclusion from the ACC bylaws, a simple majority was always the number needed. 8 schools before the last expansion and 10 afterwards. The implosion of the ACC will occur when there are 10 schools ready to vote for it which is likely the reason that the “chatter” that Flugaur is hearing references 10 schools.
The nuclear trigger for the ACC implosion is not a scheduling agreement between the B1G and the SEC, but it is what it has always been which is ESPN’s unilateral option revealed in the FSU legal complaint:
“It is a widely repeated misconception that the ACC’s multi-media rights agreement expires in 2036. As explained below, in truth, the multi-media rights agreement expires in 2027 unless ESPN chooses to exercise its unilateral option through 2036, a decision ESPN has no duty to make until February 2025, thanks to other additional conference mismanagement detailed below.” - FSU’s legal complaint filed Dec. 22, 2023
It is not likely that 10 ACC schools will dissolve the conference and then form a new conference because there is zero trust among members at this point. Plus the lure of being in the B1G or SEC once the shackles of the GOR are gone will be too much for any school to resist. They will stab the others members in the back quicker than Oregon & Washington did.
The SEC will eat first by taking NC, UVA, Clemson, and FSU. Notre Dane will be checkmated into reluctantly joining the B1G along with one other ACC school likely Stanford. With no TV contract and 6 votes for dissolution already in the bag, the remaining 4 vote will come from ACC schools that negotiate membership into the Big 12. Louisville, Pitt, Miami, and Duke are all possibilities.
The networks will have achieved their desired goal of consolidation with three 20 team power conferences with one of course being a distant 3rd financially. ESPN simply informs the ACC that they chose not to exercise their unilateral option before the end of February 2025 and the rest plays out without network interference (at least on the surface). Game. Set. Match.
a) As long as UNC stays, ESPN eagerly renews. ESPN is already ~100% renewing even if there is some depletion from the top given its deal with the new BIG12 and the addition of CAL+2.
b) CAL+2 would not have been invited if dissolution has been a considered strategy.
c) Actual events suggest that the "renewal" is actually a "look in" or that there's also a triggered "look in".
d) If there is any truth in this dissolution, it would be led by UNC (and to a lesser ND/UVA), who don't want to move to even the "P2". The other chosen 10 won't have a "P2" invite, and no ACC member votes to dissolve to go to the BIG12.
e) FSU doesn't make a 20 team SEC. Most likely, UVA, UNC, DUKE, CLEMSON. The B1G waits out ND/MIAMI. The remainders have already backfilled. FSU moves to the BIG12.
f) The BIG12 has no feasible path to a P3.
The idea of the regional games/rivalries from this league would be awesome for sure. However the best way to generate income as a football team is to put a winning, quality product on the field and fill the stands. No more revenue problems! As always love the show and food for thought brother Couz. 👍
Thank you
I don’t think the Big 12 would be all that bothered to lose WVU to an eastern league, not that we wouldn’t be sad to see them go, but that it just makes a lot of sense for WVU. I’d much rather see drastic expansion that creates an eastern wing.
@@aBrewster29 me too, but that doesn’t seem likely now. I guess it’s still possible.
I am getting frustrated with the unknowing regarding college realignment. My initial thoughts were CFB could go the way of NASCAR by alienating fans chasing the almighty dollar. I am starting to think it could be more like IRL and CART situation for American open wheel racing. We could be staring down the barrel of a split in college athletics with traditionalist on one side and professionalizing on the other.
What I think may be going on with UNC-CH and ACC discussions is a realization that a non-insignificant group of schools sit on both sides of that divide. Another piece of this is what the ROI is for PE. Other than a cash infusion, what does it provide the schools. The investors don't have a product to carry forward and sell other than media rights. Is there enough? And, why wouldn't they just work to make the rich, richer.
My thought is UNC-CH, et. al. are not looking at PE for just athletics, but as partners up/down the academic/athletic stack. They anticipate falling enrollments (demographics and alternative paths) along with reduced federal research funding (regardless of party control) moving forward. Now, as a packaged deal I can see PE ROI. Use athletics as a means for recruiting students/faculty in a lean environment with moderate media rights returns and academics to drive research forming new companies/technology to feed PE returns.
a) This realignment is about contraction via consolidation at a new Tier 1 level. To most effectively separate from the rest, the SEC and B1G need to consolidate all (or nearly) of the bigger brands, major flags, etc. The BIG12 and PAC have already been plundered, leaving the ACC. While FSU prefers to be consolidated, UNC, ND and others prefer surviving for a P3.
b) Private equity without a permanent increase in value (i.e. not a sugar high) is a step backwards in the end.
c) The Southeast is unlikely to be facing smaller enrollments, as its population is growing at ~10% per census and is unlikely to be aging like those in the core B1G states. To improve its selectivity, it's my understanding that FSU froze its undergrad enrollment. This explains the explosion at UCF, etc. In contrast, (e.g.) IOWA and PSU's in-state enrollment is now below 50%. At some point, both will have to drastically lower selectivity and/or shrink enrollment.
d) I do think that austerity measures will be the future, materially affecting these AAU members. Even more reason to focus on academic reputation rather than just AAU status.
@@tarheel7406 We have 2+ conference commissioners and multiple universities announce openness to PE. None of that has come to fruition. The reason is the ROI coming from ongoing uncertainty in the House settlement, NLRB actions, and changing "entertainment" trends.
One way to mitigate is to expand PE beyond athletic rights, but funding university functions as well. This increases potential ROI. The schools involved in this conversation are all high intensity research universities with most AAU members.
When looking at enrollment numbers, being in the sunbelt is not a panacea. Even the UNC System has schools with dropping enrollment along with many privates across the region. NC State had plans for 50k+. They expect growth to slow and are expecting now to top out at 40-45k. UNC Charlotte is exploding with expectations they'll pass UNC Chapel Hill in the next year or two with 35k. However, ECU enrollment remains flat. You see similar patterns across the Southeast. Schools in urban areas are growing. Those outside are flat to negative.
@@toast803
a) I'm focusing on PE related to athletics. I suspect that private money is already going to schools for research on top of government grants.
b) I can see both UNC and NCSTATE slowing enrollment and increasing selectivity, funneling more in-state students down the tiered system. The natural extended fanbases would still grow. My observations are more regional. Ignoring space limitations, a lower enrollment would still be by choice rather from a lack of applicants.
The biggest issue WVU has in leaving is the Grant of Rights the Big 12 has. Would I love to see VPI, Pitt, Syracuse, and Louisville on the schedule every year; you bet!!! But, it might be expensive and extremely difficult to leave.
That’s where PE comes in.
@@CouzsCornerSports I doubt that a contracted ACC would want WVU; they certainly are not buying WVU out of its contracts.
I think Big 12 will cut you a deal to leave as we would add OSU, WSU, Tulane, and Boise State. Teams that want to be in Big 12.
@ nobody said we didn’t want to be in the Big 12. I said no the new conference can make WVU more money. I care more about WVU than the conference they play in.
@ maybe??? But having a university in the Eastern Time Zone does help scheduling for noon games.
I like having WVU in the B12, but I'm tired of hearing the grass is greener in whatever fantasy league might be coming for WVU in the future. Maybe y'all should focus on winning games in the B12 instead of looking for another league to join. Between y'all, Utah, and the media, you're making the B12 climb a bigger Mt. than the one we're already trying to climb. WVU could help a lot by being relevant and just winning games. The East Coast bias works in WVU favor. If y'all could take advantage of that, it would really help the league. Work on what you can control & quit hoping for what you can't control to be beneficial.
LIFE IS A GAME ITS NOT WEATHER YOU WIN OR LOSE BUT HOW YOU PLAY IT --- money should not matter! I may "sound like a YODA - but how long has Morgantown look like NYC??? wish we would get back to W.V.U.
Acc merge with the pac then cal and Stanford could have some close games as opposed to flying cross country for every road game
And we’d have a chance to win conference titles. West Virginia can’t really win no big 12 titles when you got Kansas houston and now Arizona in basketball. WVUs chances of winning the new conference would be a lot higher. But I doubt we see that happen
Huh? An ACC 2.0 would have 2 blues to the BIG12's 1 (KANSAS).
Kansas is a blue in basketball, but there are several NEW bloods in the league: Baylor, Houston, Arizona to name three.
@@CouzsCornerSports BAYOR isn't even a lite blue. I already count HOUSTON and ZONA as lites.
@ they have been a top 10 team almost every year the last five or so and have a national title.
@@CouzsCornerSports BAYLOR has had a good recent run of teams. Its success has not been long nor sustained enough to be peer with actual lite blues. I have offered comparisons already on a number of occasions. If BAYOR is a lite, so is NCSTATE and others. The term starts to lose any meaning.
We also know that the BIG12 is overrated (ranked) due to failed expectations in the NCAAT.
I'm not interested in the original stupid trash talk. I am interested in the ignorant assumptions upon which such talk is based.
Imagine this 14 team conference.
Notre Dame
Clemson
Florida State
Miami
North Carolina
Duke
North Carolina State
Virginia Tech
Virginia
West Virginia
Syracuse
Louisville
Pittsburgh
Central Florida
No need for WVU and/or UCF. Perhaps no need for L'VILLE, CUSE and/or PITT.
My 10 if just current ACC members:
FSU
MIAMI
GATECH
CLEMSON
UNC
NCSTATE
DUKE
UVA
VATECH
ND
@@tarheel7406 that list is why the ACC is known as the worst football (and basketball) conference. And toss ND. They yo pimp, daddy. They won't share 1 cent with that lame conference.
@@tarheel7406 I think this conference would be considered relatively adjacent to the "Super 2". I think UCF has a lot of potential and I want as many teams as possible to play big time college football. Might not be realistic tho
@@Joe-sm9qj
a) The BIG12 is the worst football conference (no big brands). The ACC is the best basketball conference.
b) An ACC 2.0 may be ND's last chance to avoid joining the B1G. If it won't join, it would remain associated as it is now.
c) The BIG12 is the posterchild for "lame".
@@tarheel7406 who's your big brand? Florida State? North Carolina? We got Kansas, bra. Clemson is not a big brand. BYU is massive and WVU is best of rest baby, close runner-up is ok state and Kansas State. Who you got? NC State? 🤣
Seems we’re moving towards an NFL style (2 conference) type of comp….im ok with that but WVU could be easily left out
I know. I’m definitely concerned.
If we get back to a pre-Covid economy, anything is possible.
It gets old hearing WVU wanting out. Long remember GBD
The BIG12's center of gravity has moved heavily west with BYU and the 4Cs, yet you complain about the effects of that on WVU's preferences?
The remainders from such an ACC contraction would likely rebuild some new BIGEAST. Why shouldn't the new BIG12 release its eastern members to better focus on a contracted Tier 2 BIG12?
We don’t want out. We just need more money and I can’t help but wonder if Gee is still playing his cards to try and get a spot in a potential new league. I could be totally misreading it too. Who knows?
@@CouzsCornerSports "We just need more money...."
This examples why WVU is such a bad fit in the ACC. The mutual attraction should be based on synergies, shared culture/priorities, etc. Money is just part of the mix.
@@tarheel7406 LOL - what shared values and culture does UNC have with a tiny private school in Dallas?
@@matt8495 LOL - Per the Altimore graph, SMU has average academics per ACC standards (would be the highest in the BIG12), and its athletics should improve after its elevation. Regardless, SMU was added by the ACC as part of a managed decline to the BIG12's Tier 2 level. WVU was always rejected by the ACC while it was maintaining Tier 1 status.
Did I actually have to explain all of this?
How about the ACC merge with the Big12 and make a super conference?
For what purpose? Why dilute the total per school?
ACC, big 12 and PAC may work together to have 3 divisions in one new big league.
You mean an amicable Tier 2 realignment after the SEC/B1G finish consolidating the top schools?
Let’s Go!!
Clemson and South Carolina will play regardless. Georgia and Ga Tech will continue regardless. Florida and FSU will continue regardless.
Sigh. First Utah...and now WVU? Sheesh. Why does the Big12 keep trying to give teams a home who don't want to be in?
WVU was added due to necessity. UTAH was a voluntary risky investment,
You obviously have poor listening skills.
I think WV enjoys being in the B12. A lot of teams and their fans have a lot in common with WV. It's the travel financials that's killing WV.
@@michaelmartin5869 WVU is a BIG12 type school with an inconvenient address.
What is to stop the Big 10 & SEC from taking ND and the most valuable teams from the ACC & Big XII? Let’s put UNC, NC St, UVA, Clemson, Kansas, Ok St, TCU and TT in the SEC, and ASU, FSU, Miami, ND, Stanford and Colorado ( or Utah) in the Big 10? I bet networks and streamers would pay more for those teams then say Wake Forest @ Boston College
TCU and TXTECH are G5 equivalents. That aren't making the Tier 1 P2 cut.
TCU is a year removed from playing in the national championship game. I know they lost big, but they got there. I don't know why you hate on the B12 so much, but I'm tired of your delusional comments. What has UNC ever accomplished on the football field for you to be on such a high horse? Look, the future of the ACC is in UNC hands. It's ya'lls choice to remain, split, or jump. The B12 has nothing to do with what happens. So make your choice & quit throwing shade at the B12. You do realize the national media looks at both of us as tier 2 leagues?
@@kafkakaraoke
a) TCU is a G5 equivalent. A Tier 4 vanilla private school It didn't make the original BIG12. It didn't backfill CO/NEB. The BIG8/SWC group has already had a good number of schools get consolidated into the evolving Tier 1. It's arrogant to think even more are needed. That's not hate on my part.
b) UNC's value is diversified.
c) I measure Tier 1 based on actual value and top-level competitiveness. The BIG12 is the sole Tier 2 by that measure.
@@tarheel7406 I don't need a history lesson. I've been following UT since the SWC days. All of that is irrelevant, just like UNC football, and your delusional comments. Hook'em. You just like arguing online for whatever reason I won't judge. Just keep your hate off of B12 channels man, it's annoying. Notice my team is where you wish you were in a tier 1 conference, and nobody thinks the ACC is on the same level but you. You're single handedly making me hate UNC and it's fan base. A hate previously reserved for A&M & Oklahoma. Still couldn't pay me to watch you play ACC games with powerhouses like Wake, BC, Cal, Syracuse etc., etc, but I'll celebrate your losses. Go Duke!!
@@kafkakaraoke LOL... UNC has been passing on SEC/B1G invites for decades. UNC hasn't caused the ACC upper middle class to flee like TEXAS has.
The ACC remains a Tier 1 conference until it either depletes or depreciates down.
TEXAS is already hated. It fled the BIG12 due to powerhouses like TCU, BAYLOR, KSTATE, etc.
I respect TEXAS as an upper right school. When did this exchange become about TEXAS?
As much as West Virginia wants to join the ACC, it doesn't look like the ACC is looking to add members.
@@Patrick-sg7cm this would be a new league, not the current ACC.
ACC dissolve but all the same teams in new league 😂
I don't see this plan as likely, but it would be (in effect) mostly reversing MIAMI's demand for CUSE/BC as +2 and the resulting expansions.
The big 12 and ACC should merge yes.......then 3 years later break free to form their own winners league!!!
No purpose for such a merger now or post ACC depletion.
LOL the "ONCE AGAIN" No WAY the ACC implodes unless UNC leaves. The ACC which is considered undervalued (which caused FSU to get pissed) is still paying out more by a tad than the Big XII. Last year it was $48 million which I also provided the link for since under open records act several ACC teams released their budgets which showed the amount. So please quit with the Bigfoot sightings!!! Really this the best you could come up with...during the football season??? LOL Save this junk for June.
Per some connections, Flugar/PATC reported that a dissolution of the ACC followed by a new conference founded by the top ~10 is a real possibility. While I have my doubts, it's a legitimate topic for a WVU focused channel.
@@tarheel7406 Nope...not a buyer. What is the top 10? Who gets in? Who is left out? What criteria would be utilized? etc. I just can't see UNC leaving unless NC State also gets picked. Would UNC leave Duke? And if not...there would be 3. So who is the other 7? Carrying FSU would be a joke when they have proven to be begging to leave any such conference unless it brings in BIGI or SEC type of $. So would 10 help to bring in that sum? NO. Just can't see any combination of 10 to justify the tv ratings needed. Just more smoke to get folks' dander up. :) And since football drives the bus $ wise....do NC State or Duke help or hurt??? Just another podcaster trying for views. Way too much of that but it is entertaining. Seems every team and every conference has people out there now throwing theories around with little real merit.
Hey tarheel...if you come to ATL to watch a game at GT or the next time we play up there...we ought to meet up. We may disagree once in a while but I can tell you are at least sane about the ACC. LOL
@@kingsgambit7734 I wrote that I have my doubts, namely because CAL+2 were invited, which increased the number of votes necessary. Would also require a humbled FSU (as you suggested), perhaps ND in full.
The top 10 (including ND or associated) should be close enough to peer Tier 1 in value per member. High academics, large and fast-growing populations, etc.
Real life stuff has brought me back to NC from the ATL,
Go UConn (7-3) and SMU (8-1)!
Doesn't look like the ACC is going away anytime soon.
Hey Couz! I love to go back to the East. Like in one of the comments, travel would be better. Look at what our new basketball coach will look at when we travel to Arizona and other faraway places.
ACC made a huge mistake not taking West Virginia that's why they're TV contract is not that valuable. The games in the ACC aren't very passionate but a few of them. There is no real big rivals in ACC football besides a few adding West Virginia would have added a lot of passionate games better TV ratings and renewed rivalries. Just look how the Mountaineer showed up in Charlotte to play the tar heels. But let's be honest the ACC has really bad leadership and it shows by not adding West Virginia years ago. West Virginia is the perfect fit for the ACC just like Notre Dame is the perfect fit for the Big 10. But I really like the big 12 but man that travel is just too much for a poor state. And to be honest it's hard to get behind the West Virginia playing UCF, Houston BYU Arizona Arizona State Colorado and Utah nothing against those teams but we really don't have any history with them. And everyone so far away it's ridiculous. Why not add Hawaii??
Nope... a) The ACC's problem isn't actual value as much as the long-term contracts. b) You and others way overvalue WVU.
@@tarheel7406 He is right, you are wrong (again). Adding Syracuse and Boston college did nothing. And Pitt brings nothing without WVU. The WVU vt and Pitt matchups in the 90--00s were bigger than anything the ACC has been able to produce. People actually watched those games. WVU has been on major TV networks almost every weekend for 20+ years. My PA friends get mad that we're on prime tv so often.
@@Joe-sm9qj So moronic.... CUSE/BC were required to get MIAMI. So was PITT at the end. WVU is a low value P5 equivalent (it didn't make the original P5 cut). Those claimed rivals were among the most hostile to inviting WVU. Those rivalries were also allowed to wither un-played for ~10 years.
The ACC has considered WVU many times, including over the past 3 years, and it has come up short each time. It simply does NOT have the value you claim as determined by those tasked with deciding such matters.
@@tarheel7406 They always overvalued wvu, reaching back to the 90s 00s to find relevants.
@@Gregcarver-yy9ts The history is what it is. The ACC will make academic, etc. exceptions if the addition serves a compelling need. FSU brought a big football brand. MARYLAND had to be replaced (i.e. L'VILLE, a big hoops brand). WVU has low base value and low relative value to the ACC. It isn't a big brand in football, basketball or overall. It's feelings towards VATECH, etc. aren't reciprocated to the same degree.
ACC breaks up and possibly takes WVU, UConn, Memphis, Tulane, USF.
Huh?
What benefit would there be for WVU to join an ACC that lost its top brands?
@@CouzsCornerSports What benefit would there be for WVU to remain in the BIG!2 that has ALREADY lost its top brands?
Again, if WVU doesn't make the final Tier 1 cut, football will only matter for synergies, etc. Tier 2 football will be otherwise fungible. Where will provide those synergies and the most in other factors?
Wake Forest, Boston College to the Big 12… don’t even entertain such a thing!
What feasible chain of events ends with either WAKE or BC in some version of the BIG12? Who suggested there was such a chain?
The old WVU fans wanting these regional games back will be the downfall of WVU football and bball! If what u said happens the top 3-4 teams will still be crying about money and playoff love the SEC and Big 10 gets cause that's who they are they will never be happy until they are equals with BAMA and Ohio St. If u think they will pick that conf over the big 2 that is just crazy talk esp. the ND take is just nuts. WVU will join that conf then the tops 4 teams would leave in 5yrs and WVU will be stuck in the same situation we was in the Big East.
I'm hearing the 2 super confs is wanting at least 1 team from every football state in the lower 48 states so they can have total coverage of the whole country and won't have to worry about filling time slots cause all will be covered.
ND may be faced with a decision. Join this contracted ACC today or join an ~24 member B1G tomorrow.
The ACC needs Prime and Colorado.
And after Prime is gone for whatever reason?
If the ACC dissolves, then Utah and WVU should join ACC 2.0 assuming FSU and Clemson stays. B1G picks up ND, Stanford, Cal and maybe GT or Miami. That puts the ACC back on top of the Big 12.
Always nonsense....
a) To where would FSU and CLEMSON go?
b) ND would support this to avoid having to join the B1G
c) The B1G will wait out ND, UNC & UVA, including the potential failure of ACC 2.0
d) Why would ACC 2.0 add UTAH and/or WVU?
Try and think first....
@tarheel7406 ND is not joining the ACC now. So it's going to join the ACC where it's Olympic sports would still be underserved, weak strength of schedule with only 2 playoff spots tops, and take over $30 million less per year in revenue? Okay.
I'm not going in circles about FSU and Clemson. They're getting picked up the minute the ACC implodes and they wanted to leave. The same way UNC would get picked up as football filler. The ACC can't stay at 10 teams with the Big 12, B1G, and SEC all above 16 to 20. You need content for the TV networks which you don't understand.
@@heartbreak25 LIL... Always nonsense....
a) ND may join a contracted ACC 2.0 to avoid having to join the B1G
b) Why would ND's Olympic sports be underserved?
c) The purposed of a contracted ACC is to close the per member revenue gap
d) FSU and CLEMSON have no better place to go until ND, UNC & UVA are secured or lost to the SEC or B1G
e) A 10 team ACC could work with a round robin schedule. Higher quality per game vs. quantity
f) If more than 10 is needed, plenty of filler options.
@tarheel7406 China may invade the USA next week. I'll believe it when I see it.
You're supposed to be Mr. Know-It-All and you don't know that Notre Dame is unhappy with their Olympic sports being in the ACC? Interesting.
Using real math, how does one close a $40 million gap when the football brands remain the same?
Round Robin? Like the PAC-12 is the secret weapon? You don't already know the TV rating of a Duke/UNC football game? 😂 You goal is to have more of those games? Okay.
Again, you really don't understand how TV works based on your past comments. I have no patience to explain it to you again since you don't actually watch sports to learn anyway.
@@heartbreak25
a) The McMurphy article was only ~3 months ago.
b) ND has given up ~50% of its football independence to get its other sports in the ACC.
c) This proposal is removing from the bottom rather than adding to the top.
d) Coming into this realignment, the BIG12's round robin schedule was an asset.
As always, you have no clue when triggered. You have yet to admit being wrong about (e.g.) the BIG divesting some from the BTN (per Wiki at least).
'What happened to West Virginia? They're horrible.'
That's now WVU's reputation... nationally...thanks to NB's horrible performances on national TV.
Add our horrible finances...not getting invited to any dance.
a) If the dissolution option has been in the water, CAL+2 would not have been added unless "yes" votes. I maintain that CAL+2 came with a side agreement that all of the approvers would not attempt to leave until at least 2036.
b) Why would private equity be a thing in this scenario? The purpose would be to increase value per member via a contraction. Supporting private equity for some new ~64 member super league is different than for a contracted ACC.
Does your husband know youre on here??
@@INFAMOUSfrontRunn3r You should consider following the advice of Lincoln.
The ACC is going to be around for a long time.
Side agreement? Lol! That's ridiculous that any university president can make a side agreement that a future president would or could honor. And those schools were added because of ND and not UNC.
@@heartbreak25 LOL... a) I didn't claim that the side agreement would be verbal. b) Current agents bind entities all the time that remain effective when others hold those offices in the future.
MIAMI accepting an ACC invite came with a side agreement to also invite BC and CUSE. BC was invited ~1 year later. CUSE was invited ~10 years later.
You really need to be better informed.
If wv fans want out the big 12 so bad just go now. Don't wait. Be brave. If your gonna screw the conference that saved you do it now. Take utah with you. But B12 can add UConn who's football this year is better than Utah and wv and their basketball is always better. You don't like the big 12. All ya'all do is talk about the east. I'd take Memphis for wv. B12 basketball and football would be better