The Nebula Star Destroyer is Disgustingly Powerful
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ค. 2022
- Star Wars has plenty of overpowered ships, today I want to look at the Nebula Star Destroyer, which is in nearly a league of its own.
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My personal take is that the Nebula is an ISD with all the extra weight removed. An ISD isn't just a warship, it's a super carrier with a huge compliment of spacecraft, troops, ground vehicles and a prefabricated base. Cutting all that bulk combined with some streamlining and you could probably get a vessel with a similar combat performance to the ISD while being much smaller. After all the guns on the Venator were supposed to be comparable despite it being a lot smaller as well so there is some president for this to work. Only wrench in this is that the Nebula still has a modest compliment. Not huge but more than I think it should have. Had I designed the vessel I would have only given it about 1,000 troops strictly to deter boarders and maybe a couple of shuttle craft, that's about it.
i agree with you but not with it being a super carrier. Nebulas should not carry fighters- why do Snub fighters need carriers when they have hyperdrives? build some glass cannon type carriers that stay out of combat and use the Nebulas as battle Cruisers for brawling. No need to waste tones of internal volume on star fighter hangers when your fighters are equipped with hyperdrives.
@@MrChickennugget360 Fuel efficiency. Militaries run on money, fuel is expensive, and politicians can be really fucking stingy when they think they know better.
You put words to it!
I also think they threw in some better contractors rather than just the core world monopolies. i.e. Mon Calamari shields are a bit better than Kuat/Rendili standard, and so you have slightly higher quality, or slightly more efficient, etc, systems across a streamlined and efficient hull.
@@MrChickennugget360 In Legends, the Nebula usually worked in tandem with the Endurance-class Fleet Carrier, which shared a common hull design with the Nebula.
I mean yeah cool, but I still think it should look like a bigger ship, not too mention it would be really cool if the design had all those turbolaser turrets that the ISD has.
Also, what is the problem with having fighters? Like in space combat it kind of makes sense to have fighters on capital ships since all fighters are practically VTOL
it doesn't need to have half the ship dedicated to holding a mobile oppression palace and 10k storm troopers. I think that's why it's as good as an ISD. the tarkin doctrine was just inefficient.
Was it? ISD was perfect for it's role of oversized colonial gunboat, able to threaten any world into submission, without planetary shields and heavy surface weapons. It could blocade for years, bombard, send ground assault and occupation force, or chase down blocade runners. You don't need effective warships, when there isn't anyone to challange you. And you can't prevent insurection by building better battleships.
@@antonisauren8998 vs. diplomacy and reason, and a general need for less ships? yes, inefficient. not to mention the PR disaster of the death star. It's easier to rule when people are okay with the government than not. also, war is expensive as heck. remember, the best enemy is one you never made, and while people had friends on the death star, a lot more had friends on alderaan. plus it was a good ski resort.
@@antonisauren8998
A single ISD can’t blockade a single planet, much less a whole system.
The Tarkin Doctrine relied on creating fear in the populace and potential enemies, while forgetting that everyday there are people either overcoming, or becoming inured to, a fear.
This Doctrine was doomed to failure.
The Imperial Star Destroyer. Jack of all trades. Master of none.
I like the idea of the Nebula class stardestroyer being made to specifically to Counter the ISD.
yeah, that's my thought as well
As I understand it, it's an efficient ISD with better tech, layout and some automation. Same output for less input.
The major thing was less crew and less troops saving space. Despite being about 2 thirds of the isds size nebulas are only carrying about 8000 people instead of the isds 47000. When you have about 40 k less people to house a lot of space opens up for power and shield generation for more powerful lasers and shields.
Plus you can use the rest of the crew of the isd to fill up to 5 more nebulas with the same crew an isd holds
@@max-and1 that’s true, although iirc there’s the caveat that Nebulas are very expensive so that might hold that idea back a bit.
@@CrazynToughKiwi idk if it’s the case in the far flung “past” but at least during the days of terrestrial battleships the most expensive cost was the crew so might work out that way.
@@max-and1 Fighter pilots are much easier to train & find than the staff to keep shield generators and maybe all those technical shit going. Basically the limit in a sense may be the expertise and not the ship or some other natural resources limit; tens of thousands of extra grunts who don't really have any place being on a ship of the light ( troop carriers please) don't help you crew 5 Nebula's. For instance this 1960's era a very damn special Soviet attack sub could in theory run with a crew of just more than a dozen people but they decided that while technically feasible how do you train new crews and who checks all the crazy new automated systems? Crew was then enlarged to around 30 but still that's way way short of the American hunter killers with crews of 120....
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa-class_submarine If you have never heard of this it will somewhat blow your mind so have fun :)
Thats cool in all, but CIS battle ships could house a crew of only 200-300 crew droids and operate perfectly even though there immense size.
Ship design looks sick, wish it was Canon to the movies cuz it would've been OP to see in live-action
Ngl though the Starhawks look lit too
I even get goosebumps just imagining one of these in a movie
They couldn't make it cannon because they'd have to make legends cannon.. ...which wouldve been better, I mean who would've liked to see thrawns campaign vs Kylo rens mommy and daddy issues
@@dvader2004 I would have liked to see Thrawn absolutely dunk on the First Order
@@dvader2004 Also they couldn't make the New Republic competent or they couldn't have the First Order win after one strike and have no opposition.
it is a thing of beauty when the Nebula-class Star Defender is on duty.
Although, there are a few times in legends we see smaller capital ships going toe to toe with Super Star Destroyers. The two examples that come to mind are actually from the X-wing series. The Star Destroyer Freedom spent the entire battle of Thyferra basically trading body blows with Lusankya. The mon calamari cruiser Mon Remonda almost single handedly forced Zinjs Iron Fist to retreat. While both ships suffered heavy damage in their respective engagements, the fact that they had any success at all would seem to indicate that a Nebula could take on a SSD with a somewhat reasonable expectation of success.
Executor-class SSDs were 12 KM long in those days though...
thats retarded nebula nerf plz
I think that a Nebula could probably drive off an SSD, but it will sustain damage. My mental image of it's power is having a mild edge over the ISD due to intelligent weapons placement and a much higher quality contingent of starfighters aboard ship, if an ISD can, through the course of a battle trade blows with a SSD and survive bloodied but intact than a Nebula should be able to do the same, and come out the other side a bit less battered than it's ISD counterpart, and it can be reasonably assured of doing so because an SSD is an expensive asset to maintain and repair, and requires facilities uniquely suited to a ship of it's scale, the amount of damage that it's commander can actually allow it to sustain is quite low, especially if the faction it is fighting for isn't in possession of one of those super shipyard worlds. BASICALLY, in the Warlord era, any modern dedicated capital ship SHOULD be able to drive off an SSD, especially after the Fall of the Core, as all of those very large shipyards that could be used to do major repairs on SSDs are no longer in Imperial hands, and any needed repairs to these warships are going to take a horrifyingly long time to complete, so risking damage past a certain light amount is entirely unacceptable and the ship must make immediate haste to exit combat with any force rivaling about a third of it's power, as a flawless no damage victory is not able to be guaranteed.
Length is only an advantage to the extent that it adds room for additional power generation and weapons, and more structure to absorb damage. At the same time, though, an SSD is not nearly as maneuverable or quick on its feet as an ISD or other smaller capital ships, and the large structure may also be more prone to failure from relatively small amounts of damage. SSDs are designed more as mobile fortresses than battleships, and rely on support craft to defend them in most combat we see.
Not to mention how the _Galactic Voyager_ held up against the _Knight Hammer_ and, what, 44 VSDs? I don't take KJA seriously though.
I do think the Nebula would be about on par with an Imperial II despite it's lack of mass in comparison because it's a pure-bred warship. It is not a "mobile oppression palace" that carries what is for all intents and purposes a planetary invasion beachhead. But you're right, it's not - on its own - something that could challenge a star dreadnaught on its own.
Hmm. No mention of the Endurance class fleet carrier, which is supposedly a Nebula variant that swaps most of the heavy guns out in favour of lots and lots of fighters
That poor carrier, held onto its air group as long as possible and ate shit from an SSD with the air group still on board. :(
I think a Nebula could be capable of overpowering an ISD by virtue that it's basically an evolution of a Tector class ISD. The Tector, as we know, is a dedicated anti-ship warship. It has no hangar, no ion cannons, no anti-starfighter weapons. It's a wedge shaped armored turbolaser battery. So if you advance R&D by 30 or 50 years following this train of thought, you can end up with a ship that is smaller, but fulfills the exact same role with similar firepower and defense to the original Tector class ISD. It's more powerful because it's much more specialized into a role that isn't commonly seen, as most larger warships also operate as carriers, command posts, ground support, ground assault transports, and carry a selection of marines. If you have a ship that does none of that and purely focuses on ship to ship combat, I'm sure you'll end up with a Nebula class warship.
This. Most ships of this era and previous eras were jack of all trade vessels that sacrificed combat capabilities for carrying capacity and the ability to flex over to different roles. To me (correct me if I'm wrong) the Nebula reads as a vessel that is built for one thing, and one thing only, killing enemy capital ships. This makes every cubic meter on the ship, every ton put to the hull is directly involved in killing enemy ships. The ISD cannot make such a claim, same as most ships of the eras both leading up to and past.
No ion cannons is an awefull idea
But the Nebula isn't dedicated to ship-to-ship combat. It has a 60 starfighter capacity.
Moreover, the overall concept of the Nebula came about during what would be a crisis of manpower, so a ship with a reduced crewing requirement and greater automation of features would naturally arrive at being smaller than vessels of similar capability with a larger crewing requirement. The one aspect which cannot be miniaturized to any significant degree without losing capability is hangar space. Starfighters are already pretty small during the ISD's era and they haven't become much smaller since.
@@kjhuang Those starfighters form a large component of its anti-ship capability. Compare that to a Victory Class of roughly similar proportions with its reliance on missiles and the versatility offered by multi-role starfighters is worth the extra hangar space. Why do you think aircraft carriers today are still a fleet's best anti-ship asset?
I was just talking about this ship on your Discord, it’s one of the top 3 star destroyers in my book.
I would have been fine if they said something along the lines of "The Nebula Star destroyer has equivalent reactor power of the Imperial II star destroyer but it benefits from more advanced systems. It can handily best an ISD II but is matched by two ISD II's."
God the nebula looks so cool, wish it was cannon
In terms of technological advancement, it might be that the New Republic hasn't so much made a big tech leap forward as they have drawn upon more varied sources of technology. The Empire had severe biases towards human technology in general and Kuati technology in particular, and many other species' engineers would have reservations about working with them. The New Republic, on the other hand, can draw on Mon Calamari tech, Sullustian tech, Bothan tech, and a thousand smaller civilizations in addition to Kuati/Corellian/Rendili technology. I think it is totally plausible that they could end up with greater power generation, superior shielding and more efficient power usage by drawing on diversity and innovation that the Empire ignored.
Glad to see you've been coming around to Corey's views on the power of the Nebula. It's an awesome ship, but of course, designed within the New Republic's combined arms doctrine
I wish we got see this ship fighting against a first order star destroyer even though it would probably loose
The only times we really see those in action is when 1 TIE fighter practically disarms it on its own, and when the galaxy's citizens somehow manage to destroy all of them in short order (presumably without the power equivalent to a Nebula). I'd favor the Nebula.
Well the nebula could fight the average imperial star destroyers but these are the resurgent class far more advanced and powerful upgrades and they have far more firepower compared to the nebula so I think the resurgent star destroyer would win but this is just what I think
Yeah the Resurgents are typically oversized ISD , so maybe it would be equally powered as the nebula in fire power , but Nebula is not Having just the firepower , It's a Star fighter kind of Star destroyer , Faster , maneverable , and deadly . While the Resurgent is just that a repainted oversized Imperial star destroyer for all facts .
The Nebula has 60 state of the art elite heavy Starfighters vs the Resurgents few hyperdrive tie fighters and a 50000 stormtroopers(not of use in space battle)
I don't take the "short of a super star destroyer" wording to suggest a nebula would be capable of defeating a super star destroyer solo, that sounds like an SSD can defeat one if it's in good working order, fully crewed, and concentrating fire on the nebula, but conversely the nebula is not a trivial threat to the SSD. the nebula could maneuver to firing arcs with limited coverage for the SSD, target weak points like the bridge with concentrated fire, and otherwise cause trouble. the SSD has to drop everything it's doing and take the nebula seriously, in other words.
the SSD also needs to refrain from firing on the fighters/bombers, and target the Nebula. some of the crews of SSDs were trained to deal with them, which proved to be a problem for many Rebel/New Republic pilots.
lost count of the times i used fighters and bombers to distract an SSD in Thrawn's Revenge, while moving ships that could snipe into position around them. the Praetor mk 2 Battlecruiser is my favorite to do this with. playing as the Pentastar Alignment, with two of them unloading everything they had on an SSD, while fighters and Bombers kept it and any other ship bigger than a Corvette busy, always brought a smile to my face.
Just reading the Wookiepedia and it states that the Nebula had defences strong enough to resist even some of the smaller Super Star Destroyers or analogous warships.
That tells me the Nebula would last longer than comparable ships against an SSD, yet still probably wouldn't survive such an encounter without a fleet backing it.
I love this basically rebooted Venator. I always liked it when in various franchises the winning rebel fighters end up using the old schematics and aesthetics of the old guard.
In Jak 3 you see the Freedom League use the same armor and weaponry as the Krimzon Guard and I think Star Wars should have barrowed that type of ... uhh... formatting? Rebel groups use whatever they can, while a true established government should have access to the best stuff. I don't like seeing the New Republic using the Mon Calamari designs.
Venator was a carrier-first. Nebulat is a battleship-first.
It's not a reboot.
@@SkywalkerWroc You know what I meant.
It makes sense that smaller ships could take on an ISD including the Nebula . An ISD is a ship built for sieges so it's role is a Troop Carrier 1st Warship 2nd and fighter carrier 3rd.
Imagine this was the fleet that came to Exegol to face the Resurgent-class star destroyer.
Well , Resurgents are good looking ships , A shame if some star destroyer called a Nebula destroys it in the most desrespectful way
Yeah! It would have spiced a Little bit the final Battle!
I'm telling you guys, I mean we have Empire at War to do that but just imagine it! Ooohhhh I am so happy some people agree!!! 🤣😁😁
I reckon, if you got an ISD, pulled out all of the troop transport and occupation force elements of it (most of the stormtrooper complement, the ground vehicles, the prefab ground bases) and cut back the additional cargo space and consumables load to a comparable level to the Nebula, added a lot of automation to cut down on the crew requirements and filled in all of the massive empty voids in the ship left from pulling all that stuff out with more shield generators, power generating capacity and anything else needed to support even more weapons systems on the ship then you'd probably end up with something that was pound for pound as tough as a Nebula class star destroyer if not even tougher.
I think that's the reason the Nebula is so powerful as a warship, it's design is simply focused on a single role as a battleship with some carrier capacity in a larger fleet instead of being a battleship/carrier/troop transport/garrison/assault ship that's supposed to be able to operate independently for years on end on its own. It cuts out a lot of unneeded design requirements and is designed to work as part of a larger fleet with access to logistics and fleet support instead of being a jack of all trades that works in isolation all the time.
I would have to check the release dates on the guides but my guess is that the "take on everything short of an SSD and even put up a agood fight against one" line was written when the Executor-Class was still set at 8 km range and treated as equivalent of 5 ISDs. Then that line just got re-iterated in newer versions despite the Executor-Class finally getting more fitting stats.
I'd argue the reason for its success is that it's an all big gun battleship.
This can be coupled with the advancements in reactor design seen in star destroyers.
On a smaller frame a specialized warship with only big guns that doesn't have to worry about hauling around entire legions would make sense as a battleship equivalent to the HMS Dreadnought.
I'd love to see a nebula and starhawk strike team. It would be unstopable
Finally someone gets it😂
I think there's two issues here from what you highlight. 1) the New Class stuff in the Black Fleet Crisis was Kube-McDowell wanting to have technological advancement - 12 years after Endor, X-wings and B-wings are obsolete, you now need E-wings and K-wings etc., so originally yes the new capital ships were supposed to be more advanced. But later authors wanted to keep doing the same iconic ships from the films so they ignored that. Then 2) I think the phrasing in the reference book you quote is just confusing on the part of the writer - when they say it can stand up to anything short of an SSD, I think they're assuming there's nothing between an ISD and an SSD so are just saying 'this is better than anything except the biggest super-ships' and when saying it can still be a threat to an SSD, I think they mean as part of a fleet.
A few suggestions, I'd view this as being similar to the firepower of WWII machine guns: there were many small machine guns that could lay down LOTS of fire as 'squad automatic weapon' BUT they could not sustain that rate of fire for too long because their barrels would get so hot that the barrel EITHER warped OR the barrel got so hot that bullets ignited their firing charge and you couldn't turn them off; which is why tripod mounted machine guns generally came with multiple swappable barrels to sustain rates of fire over a MUCH longer time.
I'd figure something similar for the Nebula- It might be able to mount overwhelming fire for the initial few shots BUT should not sustain that rate of fire.
A similar idea about having BOTH high capacity for Shields + Guns occurs to me after watching the Battleship New Jersey's channel on "Iowa class versus Yamato class": First, for any capital ship, huge firepower capabilities ALSO come with a huge downtime for maintenance- example was that Japanese battleships developed "giant shotgun" rounds so their main guns could be used for anti-aircraft fire BUT using these shells wore out the riffling on the barrels VERY quickly so they were inaccurate. A similar idea would apply to Nebula IF you assume it has MAJOR upgrades to the internal power system- so it can dump huge amounts of power into offensive fire, OR dump huge amounts of power into defensive shields, BUT can't do both at the same time without blowing out the power system.
A guy below me commented something brilliant. Kansas Tagai I believe.
Back in the old Cross Sections hardcover I owned as a kid, the Venator is front and centre in my memory. The book speaks about the cannons briefly, and I believe, -although I can't recall the wording exactly- they say it's basically capable (as I'm aware we've all heard you say) of swatting a fly at Mach 1, or vaporising a Munificent shield, the plating, and 1/4 of B1 Droids beneath. From range.
Whilst certainly lacking in the secondary department in terms of fire-power, the primary armament was very comrpable to an ISD.
It's like comparing an early model South-Dakota Class Battleship with a late model Iowa Class Battleship. Much bigger, better backup weapons and power, a better flagship, yet near comparable, if yes, slightly punchier, primary weapons.
Master Yoda: "Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you?"
Thanks for another video about vessels, my favorite part of the channel.
I love the Nebula Star Destroyer. It looks cool and packs the proper amount of firepower for a battleship.
Based on the stated 20% greater power output than an ISD, the Nebula could probably engage an ISD or anything smaller with a decent chance of success. Anything larger would be a problem, though.
Thanks for making videos man
The Nebula class star destroyer is a Star Wars ship with no stupid design problems. Take an Imperial Star Destroyer, remove the dumb monodirectional turrets, trim that intimidating bulk, trim down the exposed bridge superstructure and sensor domes, and add efficient weapons like those torpedo tubes shown in the gameplay. Now you’ve got a trim 1100m mobile artillery platform that can devote all of its energy resources to blasting capital ships to hell. One on one, a pompous Tarkin-doctrine-encumbered Imperial Star Destroyer is hosed.
The Imperial II Star Destroyers carries over 45'000 crew, while the Nebula is a sixth at around 7'000. The Nebula also isn't carrying around an invasion force worth of vehicles and transports. Automation cutting down on crew requirements alone frees up a lot of space. Some of this is obviously dedicated to reducing the frame, but they put the rest toward firepower and armor.
4:35 Suncrasher-class ship looks like a walking golden garbage can.
The Nebula-class Star Destroyer is also one of my favorite Star Destroyers in Star Wars. The other being the Pellaeon/Imperious-class Star Destroyers.
This reminds me of the Xystons with the superlasers... never mind how massive the Death Stars were to house such a weapon, 30 years later, after the Empire has collapsed, we have miniaturized it to an almost absurd degree, with no explanation of how you can generate that level of power on such a tiny vessel, it's just 'Khyber crystals are magic! Hooray!' and they hand wave it away.
Nebula being able to take on ISD 1v1 or heavy cruiser 2v1 makes perfect sense.
ISD is a mobile amphibious assault ship (with nearly 10 000 stormtroopers and an assortment of armored vehicles), command ship, electronic warfare ship, carrier (the thing can carry a flippin corvette onboard on top of 72 fighters in the bays supplemented by shuttles!), it could sustain 2-year long missions in a deep space or float in the atmosphere above the cities. All these capabilities come at the expense. A dedicated (pocket) battleship for in-space warfare should be able to EASILY outmatch ISD in 1vs1 combat, even if it can't do the 1/10th of the other things ISD did.
I do think that the essential guide to warfare was referring to it's performance taking into account: "the support ship and fighter compliments that always accompany it" and that it's more of a fleet keystone instead of an all in one pocket dreadnaught but I could be mistaken, it just seems like it would be a lot more of a reasonable state of affairs.
I was so happy when I saw this in my recommended. This is my favourite capital ship of all time.
Nebula star destroyer is designed to be a slimed down and just as powerful variant of the imperial star destroyer and working in conjunction with the endurance class carrier is meant to give any new republic fleet made of of new class ships, the firepower to go toe to toe with any imperial capital ship except a super star destroyer as well as necessary carried fighter strength to destroy or take down any opposition fighter wing or enemy capital ships of any type or size.
The Nebula Class is perhaps the best looking ship, smooth
1:38 god it would be so funny if the nebula could actually take on something like an Allegiance class head to head, sometimes sourcebooks are just broken
When making SW ship concepts there are a few things to consider.
Armor verses armament. Every gun and gun turret is GOING to compromise the armor and be a weak spot in the armor itself. Thus there is a balance between how many guns and how effective the armor is. If you focus too much on the armor and defense, the offenses will be compromised, and vice-versa.
Next to consider is the energy output of the reactor. This may seem odd but think about it, engines, weapons, shields, ALL of these things are going to take MASSIVE amounts of power in order to work, especially in larger ships!
When I think of a ship that "works" I like to think about stripping a ship down. I'd take several Melinnium Falcon sized ships, equip them with a few slow-firing overpowered laser cannons, mass-produce the CRAP out of them, and then send them out to go rough up some capital ships. If we lose one, who cares, they're CHEAP! Each shot is overpowered so it's GOING to do some damage. Seriously, the worst thing is that it's NOT a capital ship we're facing but a fleet of fighters. Fighters small enough that the heavier weapons are ineffective against and cheap enough that the enemy can afford to lose them more than I can afford to lose mine. What do I do against this kind of foe? Do the same thing with fighters I did with my Falcon rip-offs... Strip them down, maximize them towards their functional priorities, and build them EN-MASS!
The star destroyer vids will always be my favorite
You know, funny thing about EaW Awakening of the Rebellion. When you transition into the new republic you can get the nebula ISD and it can tank a lot of hits. Even its description says that it can take on two ISD IIs
If the ship is smaller but has the same energy output, it would be more powerful due to it carrying the same mass with it while the shields are sturdier because they have the same energy available while the surfact they have to cover is significantly smaller, not much technological development needed.
However since the main reactor is usually one of the most expensive parts of a ship, that would mean the ships cost a forture for their size, which limits them as their small size also means they can carry less systems for other tasks with them. Though all of that would not be enough to create an OP battle ship.
Eck, I think you either misspoke or misunderstood what the book says the Nebula could fight. It stated anything short of an SSD is what it can take. Which honestly makes sense. Maybe it's a bit iffy if it goes up against an Allegiance-class, but the Nebula was made in a time after the ISD, and while the ISD survived longer, the Nebula was made to surpass it in just about anyway possible. But the larger warships it'll die to pretty fast, Bellators, mandators, Executors, so on.
i agree with all except world devastators. Byss was the secret throneworld for Palpatine, backup capital for the Empire and given the tech available and the workings of the World Devastator its not unreasonable to accept that they had virtually impenetrable shields resistant to conventional weaponry -> which can basically be just a smaller version of an already exiting planetary shield emitter - maybe not even smaller since World Devastators were gigantic.
2 things
1. If the nebula is brought back into cannon it should be a cheaper version of an ISD but does the same damage output. They could explain that it's more streamlined and easier to build.
2. If the description stays the same then it should be explained that it's Republic propaganda, the government makes this crazy description just to compensate for the ships size, they do this to ward off any imperial remnants or pirates.
I think this is an interesting concept if executed differently, kind of like the real life Deutschland class pocket battleship, which has the same (but somewhat fewer) guns as a few battleships and smaller and more agile but with less armor, essentially being some sort of glass cannon. It can output lots of firepower, but it won't be able to take much damage.
2:30 has a nebula burning in the lower right, while SSDs are mostly intact... great work artist lol
That's the Endurance at The Orinda Campaign destroyed by the 2nd super star destroyers full firepower along with the First KWings
My headcanon is that it has a reactor comparable to a SSD, but it’s built to be efficient (unlike the Tarkin Doctrine), therefore it has similar total power output but much less is used to support a grossly massive ship built to be a symbol as much as a warship and thus it can *apply* more power to its offensive and defensive systems. I would also expect at least some progression in miniaturization over time.
The general topic of reference books and weird specs for different ships reminded me of how much the entries for the Resurgent Star Destroyer in canon drive me nuts. Current specs give it 1500+ weapons of various types, which is already kind of crazy but it's made even worse by the specs we do know about other ships like the Mandator IV or even the Raddus which feel woefully under-equipped by comparison.
My first expanded universe book was the one with the sun crusher and my second was the courtship of Princess Leia so they get a ton of lee way from me on quality I was blown away by how cool that was
honestly speaking, I'd remove about 20 percent of it's heavy turbo lasers in favor of light laser cannons for anti starfighter capabilities
In the capture of the Lusankya we see an ISD take on the SSD and cause major problems for the large vessel. One-on-one the ISD would have been completely wrecked, but still pose a significant problem. The Nebula has better shielding, armour, and power generation, in a more efficient frame and ship. I wouldn't be surprised if it could take on and halt an SSD for some period of time.
I love how you talk about how something that small couldn't take on a SSD while showing an A-wing taking out a SSD on screen.
I don't want it nerfed. It's good as it is. I infact want it beefed up.
So, for a match-up: a Nebula vs. a Xystan, empty space, no planet for the Nebula to defend. Who wins?
Love your stuff Eck. Been a fan for a long time and I appreciate your work, even in the rare cases where our opinions differ. But in this they most certainly do not.
Those scenes from short fan made film you had, were those new scenes, as I don't remember them with B-wings?
i remember playing EAW remake and basically destroying everything on the path with the executor SSD. then, over mimban a fleet of 2 nebulas and 2 endurance was on the defending side, next thing i know; the SSD is disabled/destroyed.
The way the Nebula is described is a lot like how American Aircraft Carriers are described. The USS Ford is considered the most deadly ship in the world yet if it were to 1v1 a Missile Cruiser it would stand far less of a chance. Aircraft Carriers are deadly because they also bring in an entire flotilla of support ships and that seems to be the way the Nebula is described especially with the line @ 1:42.
But it's role in the New Class fleet is that of BB. It's heaviest armed and armored ship in formation. Fleet carier would be Endurance on the same hull, as it's designation even says.
@@antonisauren8998 glad you didn't read the comment or listen to the video. Great talk buddy...
I remember that one. Does it also say that the Defender / Nebula only has six months of consumables (while the ISD has 6 *years* )? If so, I can mostly buy the hype. What it is doing is sacrificing durability by a factor of 10 to get its power increse.
You Know what else is Disgustingly powerful? The AT-PT
A rebel 20 years old ship: "f*ck this s*it i'll destroy it easily"
The Nebula-class would have been fun to see in new canon. Would have been a cool thing to have the NR use the ISD in their own version, you know, using their tech against them
Pretty much with the Suncrusher you can build like 20 of them and send them through the galaxg to decimate entire fleets. Pretty much the thins is worth a couple ships
Its a refined isd mixed with the powerful designs from the moncalamary so if we consider it as just that it's a balanced ship with a great support network to help it out in battle.
like eckhart said above in the video it always had support ships and powerful advanced fighters/bombers on board readyto be deployed at a moment's notice ..
So it being op makes since .. Mostly ..
Honestly, I think the Nebula might be best suited as a slightly smaller Venator than how it's described. Just a massive carrier with plenty of turbo lasers to gun down other capital ships. Plus, the Venator had space for many troops, walkers, gunships, and other assorted vehicle for a ground attack, things that the Rebellion/New Republic didn't use all that often. Cut out those things, and you can make it smaller in basically every way. It would make sense if Mon Calamari shields were somehow incorporated into the design too, allowing its shields to be as powerful as described
I think the idea was that the Imperial Star Destroyer was mean yo essentially do it all. It was a carrier, a front line battleship, a command and control center, and a troop transporter. An all-in-one weapon of mass oppression. The New Republic just needed something that could blow up the Imperial class. Remove the vast majority of the crew and fighter compliment, streamline the design, pack every available inch with weapons and shield generators and you've got yourself a handy little ship destroyer.
Then, take that same design, remove a bunch of weapons, knock out every possible wall to make way for more fighters, and boom! Instant carrier to accompany the Nebula.
Hey Eck,
I was just wondering what you think about the X-70B Phantom Class Starship and do you know if there were other Phantom Class Starships, or just the X-70B. I would be really curious about it. Other then that, great videos. Always interesting to watch.
The nebula’s durability might be at least partially due to the fact that the Verpine made its shields
I like to think of it like comparing the big ww1 rombus tanks to a cold war era - modern light tank / tank destroyer
Sure the rombus mark 5 is big and has alot if guns but something like a charioteer has a single well made long range and powerfull cannon
But tech didn't advanced that much in those 30 years. It's like comparing 1910 to 1940 BB. They might be a third faster, get slightly better armour and guns, but outside of fire control, not much changed in design.
Ok I know I'm not a starwars fanatic like most of the people here. But I do know a thing or two about energy/heat/electromagnetic shields. So here why I think it could take on a super star destroyer. Simply the shields of the vessel being strong enough to protect it from enemy attack long enough to deal massive amounts of damage the a possible reason why it specifically states an armata to be needed could be due to the volume of fire an armata makes which would be enough to fry the shield generators. Also a good way to make EM shields stronger is vy increasing the voltage that it receives also the small size of the ship could make it possible that it's a low amp high voltage shield generator which would make it very powerful
If she could power it you've got a ship a third the size of an ISD with Mon Cal inspired shields and armor with a weapons load similar to an ISD. Of course it's able to mop the floor with ISD's. The Mon Cal capital ships could go toe to toe just with better shields, armor and more ion cannons. Now put that on a ship designed as a warship instead of either a starliner or city (depending on your choice of canon,) throw in systems 30 years more advanced and strip out the ground assault capabilities and replace them with more power, guns and shields.
I don't think they'd be able to win a fight with an SSD but they could probably do enough damage that the SSD would want to drydock for repairs and that's just as good as taking it out in the short term.
I wish this was canon. I love the design
Man one of my favorite .I wish they make a toy for it or a model🔥🔥
I think we can take the wording more seriously if we count "Everything short of a Super Star Destroyer" as something like the much smaller Bellator-class rather than the massive Executor-class. Or some of the older ones like the undergunned and inefficient Mandator I or Praetor I.
But yeah, it is overpowered. I could see it making sense as being a threat to like an Allegiance-class, but not an SSD. As others have pointed out that doesn't mean an SSD should just ignore it - it is *a threat* capable of causing damage, but it couldn't defeat an SSD on its own unless some Episode VI stuff happened where its bridge shields got taken off line and an A-Wing suicided into it.
Long range turbo lasers tech w/ better cooling systems allowing faster ROF comes about roughly at that period of time. Covered in some of the republic novels pre Disney I think. Tech the New Republic give to the Hapan confederacy in return for support and fleet of Hapan Battledragons they themselves upgrade with the new tech. I cant quite recall which book, probably one of the ones with Centerpoint because Hapans are key to most of them. Bakura maybe? Anyway that specific combined techs might allow for a firepower focused destroyer to be on the OP side for size.
Not saying the Nebula doesn't need nerfing, I just can think of a specific reason and a precedent for pocket sized destroyers over focused on firepower capable of taking on larger opponents, especially used in numbers. Naval history is full of them.
Could it just be that advancements in targeting technology and possibly a higher weapon to crew ratio increased it perceived firepower? If they ditched conventional gunner crews, which means less space required to house them, and dedicated the unused space to more guns they could have increased firepower dramatically while maintaining the smaller footprint. I don't think it should be onpar with a ISD for sure, but it's possible that it could outgun quite a few ships and hold its own against a larger force at least.
“There’s no way a ship that’s smaller & less massive than an ISD would be able to hold its own against an SSD, or take the place of a whole fleet.”
Palpatine: _Awkwardly puts away Suncrusher, before deciding to hide it in a Xyston-shaped disguise._
Yeah. If you go by the reference books it would follow that a Nebula can outmatch a Praetor II, a Mandator, a Bellator, an Assertor or an Allegiance. Anything less powerful than an Executor. And I just can't see that happen with Battlecruisers being as fabulous as they are.
I think a better way to put it is that it hit above it's class. Maybe including the striking power of it's starfighter compliment. Equal to an Allegiance perhaps.
interesting that they pretty much describe the nebula the same way cannon describes the starhawk
Weren't some of those reference books written back when the Executor-type SSDs were 8km long, instead of current 17.2? Also, wasnt the NR known for superb turbolaser tech?
I love the Nebula's look and concept, but that Defender design (0:50) is really sharp and cool. With its wing-like engines, it looks like an expanded and enhanced starfighter. Kinda fits for the New Republic!
You must be the only one I've ever seen compliment the aesthetics in something from that source.
@@kjhuang Thrustships were nice. And corellian fighter. :P Were Hapan ships depicted anywhere before?
@@antonisauren8998 I first saw them illustrated in the EGVV. I'm not sure if that predated CTD. It probably did considering there's no mention of the Black Fleet Trilogy that I can recall.
@@kjhuang Well this design has earned it, I think! It stands out.
Where's that cool modern video game footage from?
The Starkiller of Star Destroyers.
Unrelated question: What's the smaller ship at the bottom at 3:14 ?
Seems to me something similar to a Dreadnought class/patrol vessel/Corvette.
Yeah a smaller more efficient design that incorporated the best technology for offense and defense would certainly have been better. Ya know, it's a shame that things went the way they did because Palpatine alone wasn't just a formidable strategic thinker but the empire he built was or rather should've been a much more formidable adversary than what we got. Like Russia it was a formidable strategic threat but tactically, we weren't really all that worried. We knew that we could easily mop the floor with their soldiers and even today it turns out to be the same thing. Instead of doing the right thing they did their own thing. It should be an honor to defeat Russia and it should be an honor to defeat The Empire and by extension Palpatine. But what honor is there in ripping apart a paper tiger? Hell the Empire posed a more significant threat after The Battle of Endor! Which goes to show that there were plenty of smart, professional officers in the imperial ranks who were being suppressed by that clumsy-ass Tarkin Doctrine. Which is a dumb as fuck doctrine for any military. Even the Nazis weren't that clumsy. But the Russians are. The point here is this, be careful not to retcon your stories lest your characters and by extension You, look like a pack of idiots.
In reference to the inference that the Nebula is better and more efficient (as a reason for its capability in matching an ISD2 and more), I think the comments about not requiring space for an embarked army are pretty valid, but I think there are some other, more tactical elements that might be worth considering.
1. Design of "hardpoints" - We've seen big ships get significantly damaged by much smaller ships, many times in SW films and books, by tactical focus on destroying specific "hardpoints" like shields generators, or the bridge. Some of the design improvements to the Nebula seem to include much less exposed command centres and shield generators. Perhaps it's ability to beat an ISD2 (and even resist to some degree an SSD) can be attributed to it's greater endurance/ resilience in not having these weak points, and being able to exploit the weak points of the opponent?
2. Technical advancements - the video mentions that there weren't really any technical advancements that might explain the difference in strength between an ISD2 and NSD. I always think about a reference from Wookiepedia (maybe not the best source, but it's pretty accurate usually). This one isn't from the Nebula's own page, but from the New Class Modernisation Program page, and it says that "Designs of the New Class were based on Bevel Lemelisk's analysis of the captured Worldcraft." Since the worldcraft in legends were these mini artificial - and highly automated - planets that were given as gifts from the Emperor to his best servants, I 'headcanon' (Since I don't think it's explicitly stated) that they contain advanced tech that isn't widely available to manufacturers such as KDY or CEC, meaning the tech could be 'new' compared to ISD2 designs. I also like to think that some of the Mon Cal designs in terms of defensive shields (often touted as superior to shields on equivelant or larger Imperial ships), could contribute to the NSD being able to outlast an ISD2.
3. Starfighter Support - an ISD2 has 72 TIE starfighters (unshielded, often referred to as "expendable"), which might include some Bombers and Interceptors (if my memories of SW X-Wing books serves). A NSD has only 60, but these are all much more sturdy armed and shielded starfighters. K-, A-, B-, X-, and E-wings all carry heavy ordnance (proton torpedoes, concussion missles... etc) and have shields. With their respective starfighters included in this "face off" it seems much more believable to me that a NSD would hands down beat an ISD2, and could at least challenge an SSD.
P.s. the Nebula class is definitely my favourite SW capital ship, so I'm sure I have significant bias!
I wonder what happens if you had the same budget for a nebula sized ship as you would on a super star destroyer.
Could you pay for super expensive shielding, or more generators.
How much could you concentrate power into a ship?
Wasn't mentioned somewhere, that while rediculous powerfull only like 10 of these badboys were ever constructed due the enormous costs?
One of my favorites.
The new republic did make sure to improve on the old isd, I suspect the mon calamari did help in the design process.
where is the video at 3:37? is that a squeal to the battle of the drenoughts?
The Canon New Republic should have had a Nebula Star Destroyer and throw it against the Resurgence Star Destroyer would have been awesome.
The Nebula class SD is designed to fight and win against the ISD's and ISDII's, against the more Heavy Star Destroyers such as the Allegiance then it would struggle to win, so anything above that would kill it.
I mean the whole point of advancement is to be better, just cause a ships big don’t mean much. Works that way in real
Life too. As we get more advanced things get smaller, more efficient and better.
The thing that makes the Nebula extra OP is its massive complement of AT-PTs.