I completely agree with this characterization of Eren. And the different motivations given by Eren in the end made total sense for me. Even in this moment Eren tries to justify to Armin what he did with much more reasonable explanations. And they are all true, or at least they all could be. But knowing that this is the end, Eren wants to finally be honest, so he changes his justification from "somewhat reasonable" over "worse" to "worst" since he is still somewhat ashamed to tell Armin the truth. He knows that the truth will hurt Armin more than anything since it recontextualizes everything Eren did in his life that he shared with Armin since they were children. Even back then, as children, Eren might not have come to Armins help to save him, but instead because he just wanted to be strong and beat up the bullies. He might have done good things and other people saw them as good, but in the end he always just wanted to see the world burn from above
If he doesn't do the rumbling, Paradis WILL be destroyed. In the alternate ending it was properly established. So in that sense, Eren had no choice but to do the rumbling as that's the only way forward, destroy the rest of the world and save paradise. However, does Eren himself want to do the rumbling? Yes he does because the world is cruel, he was also disappointed with the world, hence he did it. But in saying this, if he could have done it differently to get an outcome, he would have. That's why he continued the rumbling, even after Zeke died. He saw the future after he fully activated the rumbling (not before because going in he just wanted to do it) that the only way the Titan curse can end is if Eren dies at the hands of Mikasa, and everything must happen exactly as it did for her to kill him, he ran different simulations but only 20% would survive no matter how he tries. In other words, as a founder, if he could have seen a different outcome after becoming a Founding Titan, he would have done so, but the only outcome is kill 80% die by Mikasa hand, End Titan curse, because That's the only way Ymir become strong enough to break her bond with The late King. Summary 1)Eren had to do the rumbling. 2)Eren wanted to do the rumbling. 3)Eren plan to kill 100% of people outside the walls 4)When Eren got full power, he discovered that killing 80% and dying in the hands of Mikasa will end all Titan curse (he didn't know that before going in) he tried to see if he could kill less people, but he couldn't. 5) Eren killed his mom because of what he saw as founder, that everything must be as it is. No changing.
I think your final conclusion that Eren did all of this simply because he wanted to win and be in control is flawed. Eren did the rumbling for multitude of reasons and he compromised on all of them to different degrees. It was partially to save the island/Eldia, to save his friends and make them international heroes by forcing them to kill him, he did it also because he wanted to see the empty unoccupied world he saw in Armin's book by wiping out humanity, he did it because he couldn't bear to to lose anyone close to him ever again by being weak and wanted to be powerful and wipe away his enemies. He did it also because he was simply born crazy and wanted to erase people from the world.
Why can't all the answers he gives Armin at the end be true? People are complicated. More often than not we have multiple reasons for doing the things we do. Aot/Snk doesn't follow the standard trend that a lot of stories do by simplifying the characters or storyboard. It's incredibly realistic in that way. So, I think it's unreasonable to expect Eren's reasoning to be so stale as to have only one true answer.
This is the best way to put how I’ve felt about Eren’s Arc throughout the series, he’s not some tragic figure, he’s a moron who got his hands on ultimate power and used it selfishly for his own ends. But who could possibly handle being in control of that much power? I think it’s a commentary/criticism on the transfer of power onto a single person, and where that inevitably leads. Ultimately being a refutation of fascist ideology and the idea of the “powerful men” being those who should lead us.
Eren's insecurity and not wanting to be weak/victim is an essential part of the character but it's not really the core motivation, or at least it's just saying the same "freedom" thing with another phrasing. Eren believes that all people are special simply because they're born into this world and that didn't come from his mom. He says this in ep 12 and 13 of the first season long before we get to Keith's backstory. It's sort of a reminder of what Eren used to believe since he seemed to have lost it when he came to the realization that he might not be special in any way because of the events in S2 and S3 part 1, he's more humble now but he doesn't really change, he was simply reminded. What happens in S4 is the result of many factors. People keep arguing which is the "real" reason but there is no real reason. In the deepest depths of Eren's heart, he simply wanted to do it. A landscape that he'd freely navigate in, a world he feels like he's owed. Why would this be simply taken away from him in the first place? That's his frustration, however he would never commit to the rumbling if he didn't care for his friends, or if outside of the walls wasn't so harsh and brutal to Eldians. Eren's trapped with a masochist author who positions him in the single worst timeline for him to be in, for all of his flaws to be revealed and it's glorious. Isayama doesn't hold back. Eren is given two other options in the series, Zeke's plan and the 50 year plan, both of which are bad options that don't allow him to keep to his core value that "Everyone is special because they're simply born into this world". Why Eren refuses Zeke's plan is obvious and doesn't need further explanation. The 50 year plan does this by stripping the freedom of the royal bloods away for decades, making the outside world live in constant fear of death, ready to get back at the island. That's how Eren sees it anyway. Armin believes that there is perhaps a chance for peace, Eren refutes this by saying that "What are their misconceptions? People outside the walls think we're people who can turn into monsters, they're not wrong." For Eren, peace won't be achieved unless the curse is lifted, but that wouldn't be enough either. "We have to make sure that they won't be able to touch us." That's eventually what he does on a very large scale. Eren seeing his future is a great plot device to tell us all that we need to know about him. He sees the future and is like "Damn, who wrote this shit, this is out of character for me" but when the time comes to make those decisions, he does exactly what he saw all those years ago. That's what happens with Ramzi and that's the place Eren breaks down. He now understands that what's gonna happen is because of his own desires. He understands himself perfectly at that point. I actually don't really like the ending that much because while his character makes complete sense to me before that, it leaves the audience with a couple of questions. Firstly, how much of the future did he really see in the ceremony? Did he see all of it? He seemed to want to complete the rumbling but knew he'd be stopped at 80%. At what point did he see that? It's also uncharacteristic of him to be all "turn yourself into a monster to unite the world". That's something he doesn't believe in and he states it in S1 in a conversation with Pyxis. You could see it from another angle. He wants his friends to live long lives, so by turning them into heroes, they'll be the safest people on Earth. If everything is to reach Mikasa's choice, then is Mikasa killing Eren the only way for Ymir to be freed and the curse to be lifted? I have no idea. These things were not answered in the manga, and it's the same with the anime. The anime showed Eren's deepest desires more clearly and Armin's response is more appropriate but these questions are still unanswered.
The entirety of season 4 part 1 was dedicated into exploring every other option Paradis had. It was shown that no other option couldve been reliably depended on Eren has 3 years left of his life, he isnt leaving it up to chance. He goes with the only option that will secure Paradis safety. Obviously the ending retconned his entire character by saying he wanted to only kill 80% of the world. Which was clearly never the case
Great video, everytime i think back on Eren, my view of him evolves. Imo the conversation with Armin can also be seen as a representation of Eren's lies or escape from his harsh truth being broken down. As we see him grow up more, it's us seeing him slowly reveal his true self and motives. It's why when we see Eren turn into a child during the iconic freedom scene, he's detached from reality.
Eren's excuses before his death made no sense true, but that is what made it make perfect sense to me. He isn't a hero, he isn't after peace, he does want the safety of his friends sure but only if it's not at the cost of his personal goals. He is selfish, broken and downright evil. He can't explain to Armin why he did what he did because he doesn't know himself. He just did it. He was pushing for some vague idea of freedom and power while being too immature and disconnected to actually figure out what those things mean to him. Like he said, he is just some idiot who got his hands on too much power, and once it dawned on him that the world isn't as immature and black-and-white as things are in his own head he lashes out like he always does. The last person who should have this kind of power was Eren Jaeger.
I’ve spoken to a lot of people about Erens character arc as well as the ending and everyone who I spoke to that liked it are anime onlys and most people who disliked it are manga readers (couple manga readers I spoke to were happy with the ending but not most) clearly the changes they made to the anime saved it. I am an anime only and I thought Erens arc and decisions made sense and I was personally very happy the ending.
i think it was more a certain set of expactations paired with the hype that made manga readers dislike it . Because they barely changed anything in the anime. i had mixed feelings right after it finished but always thought that some readers where just hyperbolic af. Its also due to some aspects being poorly understood or poorly communicated. and sometimes both. like for example eren saving berthold wich many people interpreted as eren going out of his way to kill his own mother. wich simply isnt what that scene is about. Or how a lot of people didnt understand at all how eren future knowledge worked and just assumed he knew everything pretty much the entire time. when in reality the set of memories he got from grisha was very specific.
@@CuteAssTiger yeah you’re right. I did have some questions also but understood it a lot better after talking about it and watching videos. I am sure when I and others re-watch the show there will be even more things I missed which I will understand and make the show better.
anime watchers are more casual fans that's why more of them like the ending. when the last chapter got released online 99% of people hated it and with time casual fans read the chapter and liked it.
@@capgras7136 it will reach more casual fans for sure but you also have to consider that people that moaned about the end are just very vocal . Vocal groups might appear to be a lot more then they actually are. With the expectations people build up while waiting each month they tend to hate the end of whatever they are following. I think its really more a combination of people who couldnt be satisfied, people who missunderstand some aspects of it , isayama communicating certain aspects really poorly and some aspects just falling flat. i dont think historias baby has to play a huge role for example . but its still disapointing that this plot line just didnt go anywhere. Its not a perfect end for sure. ( also stuff like the paralells between ymir and mikasa just arent there xD both of them obsess over a man but litteraly everything else between these characters is different) Personally i think isayama did a great job showing the nature of war. And the story might have been better off simply posing the question rather then trying to find an answer to it . The story might have been better off ending with the rumbling. Showing where ignorance and warfare leads. A tragedy that we as the audience have to prevent and find an answer to in the real world.
I completely agree with this characterization of Eren. And the different motivations given by Eren in the end made total sense for me. Even in this moment Eren tries to justify to Armin what he did with much more reasonable explanations. And they are all true, or at least they all could be. But knowing that this is the end, Eren wants to finally be honest, so he changes his justification from "somewhat reasonable" over "worse" to "worst" since he is still somewhat ashamed to tell Armin the truth. He knows that the truth will hurt Armin more than anything since it recontextualizes everything Eren did in his life that he shared with Armin since they were children. Even back then, as children, Eren might not have come to Armins help to save him, but instead because he just wanted to be strong and beat up the bullies. He might have done good things and other people saw them as good, but in the end he always just wanted to see the world burn from above
great channel man. happy to have found you.
If he doesn't do the rumbling, Paradis WILL be destroyed. In the alternate ending it was properly established. So in that sense, Eren had no choice but to do the rumbling as that's the only way forward, destroy the rest of the world and save paradise. However, does Eren himself want to do the rumbling? Yes he does because the world is cruel, he was also disappointed with the world, hence he did it. But in saying this, if he could have done it differently to get an outcome, he would have. That's why he continued the rumbling, even after Zeke died. He saw the future after he fully activated the rumbling (not before because going in he just wanted to do it) that the only way the Titan curse can end is if Eren dies at the hands of Mikasa, and everything must happen exactly as it did for her to kill him, he ran different simulations but only 20% would survive no matter how he tries. In other words, as a founder, if he could have seen a different outcome after becoming a Founding Titan, he would have done so, but the only outcome is kill 80% die by Mikasa hand, End Titan curse, because That's the only way Ymir become strong enough to break her bond with The late King.
Summary
1)Eren had to do the rumbling.
2)Eren wanted to do the rumbling.
3)Eren plan to kill 100% of people outside the walls
4)When Eren got full power, he discovered that killing 80% and dying in the hands of Mikasa will end all Titan curse (he didn't know that before going in) he tried to see if he could kill less people, but he couldn't.
5) Eren killed his mom because of what he saw as founder, that everything must be as it is. No changing.
I think your final conclusion that Eren did all of this simply because he wanted to win and be in control is flawed.
Eren did the rumbling for multitude of reasons and he compromised on all of them to different degrees.
It was partially to save the island/Eldia, to save his friends and make them international heroes by forcing them to kill him, he did it also because he wanted to see the empty unoccupied world he saw in Armin's book by wiping out humanity, he did it because he couldn't bear to to lose anyone close to him ever again by being weak and wanted to be powerful and wipe away his enemies.
He did it also because he was simply born crazy and wanted to erase people from the world.
Exactly
The King is back, with the video we’ve all been waiting for
Why can't all the answers he gives Armin at the end be true? People are complicated. More often than not we have multiple reasons for doing the things we do. Aot/Snk doesn't follow the standard trend that a lot of stories do by simplifying the characters or storyboard. It's incredibly realistic in that way. So, I think it's unreasonable to expect Eren's reasoning to be so stale as to have only one true answer.
Thats an interesting outlook on Eren’d character, not one I fully agree with but not one I’ve heard anywhere else. great job
Interesting video, glad to see eren respect
I was hoping you would upload another video about attack on Titan!
Eren didn't have an alternative...everyone will rather kill the other side than ur side dies.
This is the best way to put how I’ve felt about Eren’s Arc throughout the series, he’s not some tragic figure, he’s a moron who got his hands on ultimate power and used it selfishly for his own ends. But who could possibly handle being in control of that much power?
I think it’s a commentary/criticism on the transfer of power onto a single person, and where that inevitably leads. Ultimately being a refutation of fascist ideology and the idea of the “powerful men” being those who should lead us.
Eren's insecurity and not wanting to be weak/victim is an essential part of the character but it's not really the core motivation, or at least it's just saying the same "freedom" thing with another phrasing. Eren believes that all people are special simply because they're born into this world and that didn't come from his mom. He says this in ep 12 and 13 of the first season long before we get to Keith's backstory. It's sort of a reminder of what Eren used to believe since he seemed to have lost it when he came to the realization that he might not be special in any way because of the events in S2 and S3 part 1, he's more humble now but he doesn't really change, he was simply reminded.
What happens in S4 is the result of many factors. People keep arguing which is the "real" reason but there is no real reason. In the deepest depths of Eren's heart, he simply wanted to do it. A landscape that he'd freely navigate in, a world he feels like he's owed. Why would this be simply taken away from him in the first place? That's his frustration, however he would never commit to the rumbling if he didn't care for his friends, or if outside of the walls wasn't so harsh and brutal to Eldians. Eren's trapped with a masochist author who positions him in the single worst timeline for him to be in, for all of his flaws to be revealed and it's glorious. Isayama doesn't hold back. Eren is given two other options in the series, Zeke's plan and the 50 year plan, both of which are bad options that don't allow him to keep to his core value that "Everyone is special because they're simply born into this world". Why Eren refuses Zeke's plan is obvious and doesn't need further explanation. The 50 year plan does this by stripping the freedom of the royal bloods away for decades, making the outside world live in constant fear of death, ready to get back at the island. That's how Eren sees it anyway. Armin believes that there is perhaps a chance for peace, Eren refutes this by saying that "What are their misconceptions? People outside the walls think we're people who can turn into monsters, they're not wrong." For Eren, peace won't be achieved unless the curse is lifted, but that wouldn't be enough either. "We have to make sure that they won't be able to touch us." That's eventually what he does on a very large scale.
Eren seeing his future is a great plot device to tell us all that we need to know about him. He sees the future and is like "Damn, who wrote this shit, this is out of character for me" but when the time comes to make those decisions, he does exactly what he saw all those years ago. That's what happens with Ramzi and that's the place Eren breaks down. He now understands that what's gonna happen is because of his own desires. He understands himself perfectly at that point.
I actually don't really like the ending that much because while his character makes complete sense to me before that, it leaves the audience with a couple of questions. Firstly, how much of the future did he really see in the ceremony? Did he see all of it? He seemed to want to complete the rumbling but knew he'd be stopped at 80%. At what point did he see that? It's also uncharacteristic of him to be all "turn yourself into a monster to unite the world". That's something he doesn't believe in and he states it in S1 in a conversation with Pyxis. You could see it from another angle. He wants his friends to live long lives, so by turning them into heroes, they'll be the safest people on Earth.
If everything is to reach Mikasa's choice, then is Mikasa killing Eren the only way for Ymir to be freed and the curse to be lifted? I have no idea.
These things were not answered in the manga, and it's the same with the anime. The anime showed Eren's deepest desires more clearly and Armin's response is more appropriate but these questions are still unanswered.
I am literally Eren Yeager
But you lack the power...
The entirety of season 4 part 1 was dedicated into exploring every other option Paradis had.
It was shown that no other option couldve been reliably depended on
Eren has 3 years left of his life, he isnt leaving it up to chance. He goes with the only option that will secure Paradis safety.
Obviously the ending retconned his entire character by saying he wanted to only kill 80% of the world. Which was clearly never the case
Great video, everytime i think back on Eren, my view of him evolves.
Imo the conversation with Armin can also be seen as a representation of Eren's lies or escape from his harsh truth being broken down. As we see him grow up more, it's us seeing him slowly reveal his true self and motives. It's why when we see Eren turn into a child during the iconic freedom scene, he's detached from reality.
Eren's excuses before his death made no sense true, but that is what made it make perfect sense to me. He isn't a hero, he isn't after peace, he does want the safety of his friends sure but only if it's not at the cost of his personal goals. He is selfish, broken and downright evil. He can't explain to Armin why he did what he did because he doesn't know himself. He just did it. He was pushing for some vague idea of freedom and power while being too immature and disconnected to actually figure out what those things mean to him. Like he said, he is just some idiot who got his hands on too much power, and once it dawned on him that the world isn't as immature and black-and-white as things are in his own head he lashes out like he always does. The last person who should have this kind of power was Eren Jaeger.
I’ve spoken to a lot of people about Erens character arc as well as the ending and everyone who I spoke to that liked it are anime onlys and most people who disliked it are manga readers (couple manga readers I spoke to were happy with the ending but not most) clearly the changes they made to the anime saved it. I am an anime only and I thought Erens arc and decisions made sense and I was personally very happy the ending.
i think it was more a certain set of expactations paired with the hype that made manga readers dislike it .
Because they barely changed anything in the anime.
i had mixed feelings right after it finished but always thought that some readers where just hyperbolic af.
Its also due to some aspects being poorly understood or poorly communicated. and sometimes both.
like for example eren saving berthold wich many people interpreted as eren going out of his way to kill his own mother. wich simply isnt what that scene is about.
Or how a lot of people didnt understand at all how eren future knowledge worked and just assumed he knew everything pretty much the entire time.
when in reality the set of memories he got from grisha was very specific.
@@CuteAssTiger yeah you’re right. I did have some questions also but understood it a lot better after talking about it and watching videos. I am sure when I and others re-watch the show there will be even more things I missed which I will understand and make the show better.
anime watchers are more casual fans that's why more of them like the ending. when the last chapter got released online 99% of people hated it and with time casual fans read the chapter and liked it.
@@capgras7136 it will reach more casual fans for sure but you also have to consider that people that moaned about the end are just very vocal .
Vocal groups might appear to be a lot more then they actually are.
With the expectations people build up while waiting each month they tend to hate the end of whatever they are following.
I think its really more a combination of people who couldnt be satisfied, people who missunderstand some aspects of it , isayama communicating certain aspects really poorly and some aspects just falling flat.
i dont think historias baby has to play a huge role for example . but its still disapointing that this plot line just didnt go anywhere.
Its not a perfect end for sure.
( also stuff like the paralells between ymir and mikasa just arent there xD both of them obsess over a man but litteraly everything else between these characters is different)
Personally i think isayama did a great job showing the nature of war.
And the story might have been better off simply posing the question rather then trying to find an answer to it .
The story might have been better off ending with the rumbling.
Showing where ignorance and warfare leads.
A tragedy that we as the audience have to prevent and find an answer to in the real world.
139 likes, exactly as it should be
It’s all of them. He has his selfish reasons but justification.
But he also just spewing all of them as he talks
I think eren did all this to end curse of titans which Mikasa caused period whatever might be the collateral.